**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 06 02:59:58 2012
Sep 06 06:55:37 <kerio> TamyrRRRR et al.: keep fighting against nokia care claiming that any device but a n900 is useless to you - try to get them to give you a phone from the current smartphone lineup, then sell it on ebay and buy an adequate number of used n900s
Sep 06 08:20:51 <kerio> does nicing swapoff actually do something?
Sep 06 08:36:49 <kerio> hm, it does
Sep 06 08:36:56 <kerio> i should probably ionice it too
Sep 06 09:19:58 <jon_y> kerio: tell Nokia care that the latest phone is the N900, there are none other :)
Sep 06 09:21:56 <kerio> hahaha
Sep 06 09:22:54 <jon_y> its true, Nokia has not produced any phones since the N900 :)
Sep 06 09:23:38 <jon_y> the N900 is sadly no longer in production, so afaik, they've been idling
Sep 06 09:23:55 <tadzik> no wonder the stock value goes down
Sep 06 09:24:05 <chem|st> rofl
Sep 06 09:24:07 <tadzik> "uhm, guys, there's been three years, maybe you produce something?"
Sep 06 09:24:30 <tadzik> "naah, what for, we can just sell Qt or something"
Sep 06 09:25:07 <jon_y> MicroSD cards now defile phones, rule34 now in effect on SD cards :|
Sep 06 09:25:36 <tadzik> well, I have an SDcard for N900, but it's only for toying with Nemo
Sep 06 09:25:42 <tadzik> 32 GB is quite enough for me
Sep 06 09:26:05 <jon_y> is Nemo usable for everyday stuff?
Sep 06 09:26:19 <jon_y> important, call recording
Sep 06 09:26:28 <tadzik> I don't think it can record calls
Sep 06 09:26:31 <tadzik> you can do calls though
Sep 06 09:27:06 <tadzik> I wanted to give it a one day go (use it for 24 hours), but I though "I'll fix contact importing first, maybe", and was unable to setup a devel env since then ;)
Sep 06 09:27:07 <jon_y> I kind of have crap memory, so call recording is important
Sep 06 09:27:36 <tadzik> maybe I'll have some tuits on weekend
Sep 06 09:28:48 <Luke-Jr> jon_y: I don't think *any* phone supports call recording… and you have to be careful since it's criminal in some jurisdictions
Sep 06 09:29:03 <Luke-Jr> (unless you tell every single person you talk to..)
Sep 06 09:29:07 <jon_y> my Meamo N900 does it fine
Sep 06 09:29:15 <jon_y> *maemo
Sep 06 09:29:40 <Luke-Jr> how?
Sep 06 09:29:46 <jon_y> Luke-Jr: yeah, only criminals are allowed to record calls :)
Sep 06 09:29:55 <jon_y> apt-cache search record
Sep 06 09:29:55 <Luke-Jr> jon_y: pretty much :/
Sep 06 09:30:07 <jon_y> I can't remember the exact name
Sep 06 09:30:18 <jon_y> it auto records when the phone is answered
Sep 06 09:30:20 <tadzik> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/26314743.jpg
Sep 06 09:30:59 <jon_y> the only problem it has is that your own voice volume is kind of soft
Sep 06 09:31:11 <Luke-Jr> recaller?
Sep 06 09:31:13 <jon_y> other than that, it's good
Sep 06 09:31:14 <jon_y> yeah
Sep 06 09:31:27 <Luke-Jr> hum
Sep 06 09:32:00 <jon_y> tell it to record as mp4, wav is overkill
Sep 06 09:32:15 <Luke-Jr> lol
Sep 06 09:32:41 <jon_y> I have a year's worth of audio recording on a tiny 8GB SDcard
Sep 06 09:32:51 <jon_y> then again, I don't call much
Sep 06 09:33:03 <jon_y> needs logrotate integration :)
Sep 06 09:34:37 <pavi_> Offline maps - What all are possible ? I saw a link for http://nokia900.blogspot.in/2009/12/downloading-ovi-maps-without-network.html but the site for files seems to be down
Sep 06 09:34:51 <Luke-Jr> good luck with that <.<
Sep 06 09:35:10 <tadzik> pavi_: I use modrana and sometimes agtl with offline maps
Sep 06 09:35:20 <tadzik> unless you mean maps as "The Maps"
Sep 06 09:35:29 <pavi_> modrana ? 
Sep 06 09:35:33 <tadzik> yeah
Sep 06 09:35:35 <pavi_> lemme check it
Sep 06 09:35:40 <tadzik> it's nice
Sep 06 09:36:05 <jon_y> I just get a dedicated GPS unit :)
Sep 06 09:36:13 <jon_y> n900 too short battery life
Sep 06 09:36:22 <tadzik> yeah, true
Sep 06 09:36:26 <jon_y> I don't have mmmonster batteries
Sep 06 09:36:52 <jon_y> dem 3000mAH batteries
Sep 06 09:37:34 <pavi_> N900 is fine with GPS provided you disconnect the GPRS/3G after you get the fix
Sep 06 09:38:21 <pavi_> tadzik, modrana seems to be a nice GPS app , what map tiles are in background ?
Sep 06 09:38:57 <edheldil> OSm, I think
Sep 06 09:39:15 <pavi_> Nice if it is OSM . I dont want the crappy nokia or google
Sep 06 09:39:37 <edheldil> But the interface used to be so unintuitive I was not able to use it for navigation. Might be better now
Sep 06 09:39:54 <Luke-Jr> installing recaller produced no binaries,  menu items, or settings items
Sep 06 09:41:00 <tadzik> pavi_: could be OSM, can be also google, OSM for bikes and other stuff
Sep 06 09:41:02 <tadzik> (iirc)
Sep 06 09:42:06 <pavi_> tadzik, you sure I could use it offline . 
Sep 06 09:42:14 <edheldil> Luke-Jr:  look for a desktop widget
Sep 06 09:42:15 <tadzik> yes
Sep 06 09:42:20 <jon_y> pavi_: why disconnect GPRS/3G?
Sep 06 09:42:22 <tadzik> I'm using it offline all the time
Sep 06 09:42:24 <jon_y> agps?
Sep 06 09:42:31 <tadzik> jon_y: bills :)
Sep 06 09:42:37 <tadzik> especially abroad
Sep 06 09:42:46 <jon_y> it's doing agps?
Sep 06 09:42:49 <tadzik> it can be
Sep 06 09:42:59 <jon_y> ok, makes sense
Sep 06 09:43:05 <pavi_> jon_y, YES AGPS .
Sep 06 09:43:11 <jon_y> turn off the modem
Sep 06 09:43:42 <pavi_> LOL  manual fix ?
Sep 06 09:44:03 <pavi_> 10 minutes ?
Sep 06 09:44:48 <ShadowJK> if you use it regulary, time to first fix without agps is under a minute
Sep 06 09:45:06 <tadzik> if you use it in the same area, too
Sep 06 09:45:18 <pavi_> wow never tried .
Sep 06 09:45:49 <pavi_> whats the first fix duration on a clear sky ?
Sep 06 09:46:01 <tadzik> you never know
Sep 06 09:46:51 <pavi_> I bet the battery will die before we get the fix :P
Sep 06 09:46:52 <jon_y> could be up to 10 minutes
Sep 06 09:46:59 <chem|st> jon_y: 12minutes
Sep 06 09:47:10 <jon_y> chem|st: is that the max limit?
Sep 06 09:47:19 <chem|st> that is the cache repeat time
Sep 06 09:47:40 <chem|st> so if it does not have a fix after 12minutes there might be a receiving error
Sep 06 09:47:55 <pavi_> ohh is it?
Sep 06 09:48:14 <jon_y> ok, I just moved 12 timezones away from my last use position :)
Sep 06 09:52:48 <pavi_> on the other hand what does nokia maps do when opened ?
Sep 06 09:53:06 <pavi_> takes lot of time to settle down
Sep 06 09:58:53 <tadzik> for (;;)
Sep 06 10:03:37 <pavi_> tadzik, installed and tried modrana very nice :) Dunno why I didnt know about this before
Sep 06 10:03:46 <pavi_> I used mappero , maep 
Sep 06 10:05:40 <pavi_> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41037 maemo-mapper was suggested , nice interface but I dont think it supports a download option
Sep 06 10:09:11 <lartza_> pavi_: mappero supports downloading offline tiles
Sep 06 10:10:18 <lartza_> 1. get route from google 2. download tiles with different zoom levels along the route (menu -> maps -> manage maps)
Sep 06 10:11:44 <kerio> holy shit modrana requires a shitton of packages
Sep 06 10:11:46 <kerio> including espeak
Sep 06 10:14:14 <pavi_> kerio, yeah worth it , you get a qml app as well as bonus :P
Sep 06 10:15:59 <kerio> haha
Sep 06 10:19:46 <kerio> hm, modrana qml is just a black screen here
Sep 06 10:19:51 <kerio> maybe it's just loading
Sep 06 10:20:13 <pavi_> ohh lemme check
Sep 06 10:20:36 <kerio> and then it crashes
Sep 06 10:21:04 <kerio> meh
Sep 06 10:21:34 <tadzik> yeah, the qml ui is LTA
Sep 06 10:21:38 <tadzik> as in, "doesn't work"
Sep 06 10:22:15 <pavi_> modrana is 11 MB for install aka 11 rupees on my BSNL 3G . 
Sep 06 10:48:53 <pavi_> Guys any news on Jolla mobile ? Me thinking of buying something with a better touch screen . 
Sep 06 11:10:49 * ShadowJK thinks it'll be along time, if ever, before a batter touchscreen appears
Sep 06 11:11:16 <kerio> ShadowJK: well, resistive/capacitive hybrids do exist
Sep 06 11:11:19 <kerio> and they're neat
Sep 06 11:14:52 <jacekowski> how?
Sep 06 11:15:02 <jacekowski> i've seen that screen used in samsung note
Sep 06 11:15:10 <jacekowski> but that's inductive+capacitive
Sep 06 11:16:14 <ShadowJK> One annoyance I have with my 10" tablet is that it sometimes does stuff even if you dont touch it, just if finger is close enough
Sep 06 11:16:36 <ShadowJK> and impossible to hold near screen or it stops registering presses elsewhere
Sep 06 11:18:58 <pavi_> I am not that particular on touch screen but I mean a modern touch with as much freedom as you can ? Is n9 still good after nokia ditching it ?
Sep 06 11:19:34 <pavi_> I mean is it worth asking a relative buying it off amazon in europe and ask him to bring it to india ?
Sep 06 11:20:44 * ShadowJK wouldn't associate freedom with N9
Sep 06 11:21:06 <kerio> pavi_: eeeh
Sep 06 11:21:53 <pavi_> The best thing I like about N900 is the keyboard :(
Sep 06 11:22:48 <kerio> yeah
Sep 06 11:22:53 <kerio> my n900 broke down, i bought another one
Sep 06 11:23:02 <kerio> there's just nothing remotely similar around
Sep 06 11:23:07 * pavi_ hopes Jolla mobile would come up with a "libre" phone with keyboard . 
Sep 06 11:25:42 <pavi_> I follow the maemo news letter and all I get is N9 that N950 that updates .. what about N900 ? Recently saw a kindle book reader app for them and was sad :(
Sep 06 11:26:53 <edheldil> pavi_:  there's btw a decent sliding kbd for eyePhone as well
Sep 06 11:26:56 * edheldil ducks
Sep 06 11:27:34 <pavi_> lol is eyephone libre ? 
Sep 06 11:31:57 <pavi_> check this out N950 bid crossed 1500 pounds http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130742367995&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
Sep 06 11:32:09 <pavi_> Damn you nokia !
Sep 06 11:55:14 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if somebody at Nokia will overbid every insane offer
Sep 06 11:56:01 * DocScrutinizer05 stares at his N950
Sep 06 11:56:23 * N950 stares back
Sep 06 11:56:29 <tadzik> sorry, couldn't resist
Sep 06 11:57:19 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, I coul dget ~15 N900 for the N950
Sep 06 12:00:45 <DocScrutinizer05> or afford a whole month of nice holiday, unpaid
Sep 06 12:05:47 <chem|st> or 5 n9 64gb or a car or 3 weeks chartered sailing...
Sep 06 12:06:25 <chem|st> ~slap n950 
Sep 06 12:06:25 * infobot slaps n950, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!
Sep 06 12:06:31 * n950 scurries nonchalantly off, in a still quickening pace
Sep 06 12:09:23 <kerio> ~nuke Elop
Sep 06 12:09:23 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Elop ... B☢☢M!
Sep 06 12:09:34 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: pff, 15 N900s are better
Sep 06 12:09:58 <chem|st> kerio: I'd go sailing!
Sep 06 12:10:21 <kerio> you could change N900 every two days for a month!
Sep 06 12:13:37 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: depends. When you live in a depot with tons of them, maybe 15 less are a tiny relief ;-P
Sep 06 12:13:52 <kerio> do you live in a depot with tons of them?
Sep 06 12:13:56 <DocScrutinizer05> not yet
Sep 06 12:14:03 <kerio> =D
Sep 06 12:14:04 <DocScrutinizer05> with 15 more - yes
Sep 06 12:15:07 <DocScrutinizer05> actually one of the reasons to ponder selling some of those critters is lack of space on my desk
Sep 06 12:15:32 <kerio> give me one
Sep 06 12:15:51 <kerio> i promise i'll charge it and update it and keep it warm
Sep 06 12:16:35 <kerio> and i won't abuse its usb port!
Sep 06 12:17:11 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20120812_002.jpg
Sep 06 12:17:50 <kerio> man, the openmoko phones were ugly
Sep 06 12:18:26 <kerio> is that a winmo6 samsung? :o
Sep 06 12:18:33 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Sep 06 12:19:22 <kerio> ew
Sep 06 12:20:26 <DocScrutinizer05> well, at that time I bought hw for refrence reasons
Sep 06 12:20:46 <chem|st> those new lumias look like someone is thinking about dockingstations again
Sep 06 12:20:50 <DocScrutinizer05> and often disassembled and binned it
Sep 06 12:21:13 <DocScrutinizer05> new lumias?
Sep 06 12:21:19 <chem|st> 920 820
Sep 06 12:21:56 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, i'm not following the pursuit of buying hw for disassembly anymore
Sep 06 12:22:13 <kerio> buy that n950
Sep 06 12:22:16 <kerio> disassembly it
Sep 06 12:22:18 <kerio> reassembly it
Sep 06 12:22:20 <kerio> and then blend it
Sep 06 12:22:51 <DocScrutinizer05> so without any URL I guess I won't even google
Sep 06 12:23:32 <chem|st> http://www.focus.de/digital/handy/lumia-920-und-820-mit-windows-phone-8-die-neuen-nokia-handys-im-ersten-check_aid_814081.html
Sep 06 12:24:12 <chem|st> uh beware nokia it has rounded edges and a display and a dedicated home button on the front...
Sep 06 12:24:13 <Lava_Croft> I saw someone tweet about how it remains weird to see your girlfriend with another man
Sep 06 12:24:24 <Lava_Croft> (regarding new Lumia devices)
Sep 06 12:24:31 <chem|st> yes
Sep 06 12:24:32 <kerio> *ex-girlfriend
Sep 06 12:24:37 <Lava_Croft> naw, girlfriend
Sep 06 12:24:45 <Lava_Croft> im a happy N9 user
Sep 06 12:24:51 <Lava_Croft> and Nokia still sells the N9 iirc
Sep 06 12:27:33 <DocScrutinizer05> AHAAAAA Lumia920, now I know what I worked on for the last year ;-P
Sep 06 12:28:23 <chem|st> your job was related?
Sep 06 12:28:45 <DocScrutinizer05> "...has LTE with European bands"
Sep 06 12:29:15 <DocScrutinizer05> mind you, Nokia sold own modem chip fab to renesas
Sep 06 12:29:38 <DocScrutinizer05> so they need to buy their modem chips from 2nd source now
Sep 06 12:29:54 <DocScrutinizer05> you know where I worked
Sep 06 12:31:18 <chem|st> ah ok
Sep 06 12:32:05 <DocScrutinizer05> now that also makes perfect sense that even 'our' employees had to sign a special NDA "in blood" when they needed access to the sources of Nokia
Sep 06 12:34:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I accidentally requested access to that usergroup. Almost felt like next second the security will roll in our office ;-P
Sep 06 12:34:58 <chem|st> anyone from berlin here?
Sep 06 12:35:21 <DocScrutinizer05> not that I know of
Sep 06 12:36:01 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo not cool enuf for Berlin ;-P
Sep 06 12:36:49 <chem|st> so I need to take both devices with me!
Sep 06 12:39:23 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: are the security armed? :)
Sep 06 12:39:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I never really met them, but I think they have tasers and stuff
Sep 06 12:40:04 <jon_y> watch bad boys 2, now with phones instead of drugs
Sep 06 12:40:28 <jon_y> smuggling samsung phones by the crate from south america
Sep 06 12:41:03 <jon_y> tasers, sounds bad
Sep 06 12:41:17 <jon_y> where I work, they just go around with batons
Sep 06 12:42:11 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: maybe you'll get a visit from your manager instead :)
Sep 06 12:42:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I already quit that job, so... prolly not
Sep 06 12:43:26 <jon_y> ah ok :)
Sep 06 12:44:00 <DocScrutinizer05> AWESOME picture (Germans only!) http://www.focus.de/digital/handy/handy-geschichte-mobilfunk-im-wandel-der-zeit_did_12098.html
Sep 06 12:44:40 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if she brought that brick from ex-GDR
Sep 06 12:45:08 <jon_y> I have actually seen those "portable" phones
Sep 06 12:45:27 <jon_y> giant antenna
Sep 06 12:45:37 <jon_y> from Motorola
Sep 06 12:46:08 <Edheldil> I used to carry one with giant heatsink, foldable antenna and a handset on a twisted cord
Sep 06 12:46:49 <Edheldil> probably motorola as well
Sep 06 12:50:48 <jon_y> Sim card was credit card size iirc
Sep 06 12:51:12 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Sep 06 12:51:19 <DocScrutinizer05> I know those as well
Sep 06 12:51:47 <DocScrutinizer05> the suitcase with spiralcord and handset was awesome ;-P
Sep 06 12:51:53 <DocScrutinizer05> only like 6kg
Sep 06 12:52:20 <jon_y> murder weapon indeed
Sep 06 12:52:34 <Edheldil> I had to carry it everywhere when I was on a duty call
Sep 06 12:52:54 <kerio> what kind of batteries were used at that time?
Sep 06 12:53:08 <tadzik> . o O ( running hamsters )
Sep 06 12:53:18 <Edheldil> lions, probably?
Sep 06 12:53:26 <kerio> the animal kind?
Sep 06 12:53:48 <DocScrutinizer05> Edheldil: no way
Sep 06 12:54:03 <DocScrutinizer05> NiCad if you were lucky, I guess
Sep 06 12:54:11 <Edheldil> ah, ok
Sep 06 12:54:20 <Edheldil> sounds more plausibe
Sep 06 12:54:57 <DocScrutinizer05> might even have been sealed lead acid X-P
Sep 06 12:54:58 <Edheldil> they we weighingabout 2kg, I guess, size of a longshot glass
Sep 06 12:55:04 <jon_y> hah, I remember NiCd batteries
Sep 06 12:55:16 <jon_y> crappy capacity memory
Sep 06 12:55:32 <jon_y> you have a special procedure to dischare and recharge
Sep 06 12:56:12 <Edheldil> I always relied on a phone to do that correctly ;-)
Sep 06 12:56:38 <DocScrutinizer05> well, better than sealed Pb: those were like LiIon: once discharge completely, never take any charge again
Sep 06 12:56:54 <fizzie> We had this particular model  http://allthemods.com/img/04/4939.jpg  plus some kind of a car adapter so that you could stick the phone part in trunk, and take the "headset" part in the car.
Sep 06 12:57:19 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, exactly
Sep 06 12:57:42 <DocScrutinizer05> that's how they looked
Sep 06 13:00:16 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.handy-sammler.de/museum/13.htm
Sep 06 13:00:28 <DocScrutinizer05> motorola 1000 is what I recall
Sep 06 13:08:32 * DocScrutinizer05 sadly wonders how long til N950 value will drop due to interest cooling down
Sep 06 13:14:59 <Edheldil> DocScrutinizer05:  I had st. similar to that one, but not quite ... I haven't yet found an image of the phone I used :(
Sep 06 13:17:43 <chem|st> http://www.senatorman.de/v2/senator-b/bilder/senator_b-009.jpg
Sep 06 13:18:13 <chem|st> is what my dad had, same car other gear-shift
Sep 06 13:20:38 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq this opel senator had a pretty futuristic instrument board
Sep 06 13:21:26 <DocScrutinizer05> for that time
Sep 06 13:22:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I had a opel with same tripmaster "computer" but way more 'normal' dials on instrument board
Sep 06 13:23:24 <DocScrutinizer05> awesome how the speed meter is digital but the car has automatic shift plus "analog" RPM meter ;-P
Sep 06 13:23:57 <DocScrutinizer05> pretty nonsensical
Sep 06 13:25:01 <DocScrutinizer05> s/shift/gear/
Sep 06 13:28:32 <DocScrutinizer05> and I already used Nokia 2110 at that time ;-D
Sep 06 13:30:47 <kerio> http://image.ffmobile.com/product/photo/41/43/10021126.d4dadb8694d9a6b6a71059b9dc18d706.jpg battery pack!
Sep 06 13:31:15 <kerio> it bears a striking resemblance to the n900 with three 18650s taped on the backcover
Sep 06 13:31:43 <DocScrutinizer05> hehehe
Sep 06 13:32:10 <DocScrutinizer05> eeek, sealed Pb battery
Sep 06 13:32:17 <kerio> yeah :D
Sep 06 13:32:27 <kerio> 100mAh
Sep 06 13:32:37 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: where did you work?
Sep 06 13:32:44 <DocScrutinizer05> when?
Sep 06 13:33:01 <vi_> when you had to sign an NDA in blood to see Nokia sources for modem.
Sep 06 13:33:09 <DocScrutinizer05> STE
Sep 06 13:33:23 <DocScrutinizer05> google novathor
Sep 06 13:33:30 <vi_> I might be moving back into embedded systems.
Sep 06 13:33:47 <kerio> Currently, the only devices which are powered by NovaThor use the Android operating system.
Sep 06 13:33:50 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: >:c
Sep 06 13:34:07 <kerio> and windows phone 8 apparently
Sep 06 13:34:10 <kerio> BUT NO MAEMO
Sep 06 13:34:12 <vi_> But my company are hard determined to buttfuck me.
Sep 06 13:34:29 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/103171-why-nokia-is-using-st-ericssons-novathor-arm-chip-instead-of-qualcomm
Sep 06 13:35:16 <vi_> kerio: Did you see the leaked pictures of N9 sucessor?
Sep 06 13:35:21 <kerio> no i did not
Sep 06 13:35:27 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: is it a good SoC?
Sep 06 13:35:32 <vi_> kerio: Basically an N950 on steroids.
Sep 06 13:35:36 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Sep 06 13:35:44 <tadzik> ah, the Rauta
Sep 06 13:35:51 <Lava_Croft> Lauta basically was N9 with keyboard
Sep 06 13:35:56 <Lava_Croft> well, exactly
Sep 06 13:35:58 <tadzik> is it even legit?
Sep 06 13:35:59 <vi_> yeah that thing.
Sep 06 13:36:01 <kerio> :'(
Sep 06 13:36:08 <Lava_Croft> Looked pretty legit to me
Sep 06 13:36:18 <kerio> it was pretty
Sep 06 13:36:20 <vi_> never made it past POC prototype.
Sep 06 13:36:30 * kerio shakes his fist at Elop
Sep 06 13:36:35 <Lava_Croft> yes blame elop
Sep 06 13:36:40 <Lava_Croft> not the people who ran Nokia before him
Sep 06 13:36:43 <Lava_Croft> that makes total sense
Sep 06 13:36:44 <kerio> nope
Sep 06 13:36:53 <kerio> it's all elop's fault
Sep 06 13:36:53 <vi_> It is ALL OBAMAS FAULT.
Sep 06 13:36:55 <Lava_Croft> its easy to blame elop since he comes from MS
Sep 06 13:37:02 <Lava_Croft> and most nerds are as dumb as most other folks
Sep 06 13:37:10 <Lava_Croft> so they just jump on the blame elop bandwagon
Sep 06 13:37:22 <Lava_Croft> while its actually the Finns that screwed up Nokia before Elop who are to blame
Sep 06 13:37:25 <Lava_Croft> and the people who hired Elop
Sep 06 13:37:36 <vi_> I think elop just had the balls to cut the life support, that is all.
Sep 06 13:37:40 <Lava_Croft> Yup
Sep 06 13:37:47 <tadzik> I thought there was some sort of agreement between Nokia and MS to not produce anything but Winphones for 3 years or so
Sep 06 13:37:47 <Lava_Croft> Elop does exactly what he is hired for
Sep 06 13:37:54 <tadzik> that's what I heard here somewhere at least
Sep 06 13:38:05 <totalizator> I've just reflashed my old N800 and meh, this device is soo cool - bulletproof usb port, large screen, out of the box usb host mode that works <3
Sep 06 13:38:05 <vi_> However announcing symbian was dead was a little stoopid.
Sep 06 13:38:10 <Lava_Croft> we 'hear' a lot of things coming from the pool of unfounded anti-elop sentiment
Sep 06 13:38:13 <kerio> Lava_Croft: to be fair, he's hired by microsoft to devalue nokia so that it can be bought for less
Sep 06 13:38:15 <Lava_Croft> yes, vi_ 
Sep 06 13:38:21 <Lava_Croft> kerio: stop dreaming
Sep 06 13:38:28 <vi_> he could have just phased it out gracefully.
Sep 06 13:38:31 <Lava_Croft> he was hired by a bunch of Finns to change Nokia
Sep 06 13:38:42 <Lava_Croft> after the Finns before him completely failed
Sep 06 13:38:46 <Lava_Croft> several times over
Sep 06 13:39:12 <vi_> blame finn labour laws.
Sep 06 13:39:18 <Lava_Croft> people piss on Elop, but at least Elop takes action
Sep 06 13:39:24 <Edheldil> that still does not mean he's not responsible (as well) :)
Sep 06 13:39:33 <vi_> Maybe if they could have fired some of thosedead weight symbian developers.
Sep 06 13:39:40 <Lava_Croft> He is cleaning up the way he can and the way he is expected to
Sep 06 13:39:54 <Lava_Croft> Nobody hires an ex-MS guy and expects him to warmly hug stuff like Maemo/Meego
Sep 06 13:40:17 <Lava_Croft> If you want to rage at anyone, rage a the people that screwed up and then hired Elop
Sep 06 13:40:27 <Lava_Croft> To clean up their mess
Sep 06 13:40:40 <vi_> I will rage at the ballsack who imp-lemented aegis.
Sep 06 13:40:43 <Edheldil> so his decisions WERE biased by his previous employer? ;-)
Sep 06 13:40:54 <Lava_Croft> Edheldil: what do you expect when you hire an ex-MS guy?
Sep 06 13:41:09 <vi_> Edheldil: Why do you think they hired an ex-MS guy?
Sep 06 13:41:17 <vi_> Edheldil: By accident?
Sep 06 13:41:22 <Lava_Croft> Elop was hired by Nokia with a specific reason
Sep 06 13:41:40 <Lava_Croft> The reason might not specifically have been to transition completely to Windows, but it sure as hell was to be expected
Sep 06 13:41:53 <Edheldil> vi_:  personally I think they were already courting MS
Sep 06 13:41:53 <Sicelo> what is the Finnish mess you're talking about Lava_Croft?
Sep 06 13:42:08 <Lava_Croft> Sicelo: Nokia is a Finnish company that was ran by Finns
Sep 06 13:42:18 <Sicelo> and the mess.....
Sep 06 13:42:30 <Lava_Croft> The mess that is Symbian, the mess that is Maemo
Sep 06 13:42:39 <Lava_Croft> why did it take to 2011 to get an answer to the iphone
Sep 06 13:42:40 <Sicelo> heh
Sep 06 13:42:43 <Lava_Croft> a half-finished answer
Sep 06 13:43:05 <Lava_Croft> if the Finnish Nokia leadership actually pushed Maemo they might have had a proper iphone contender quite a bit sooner
Sep 06 13:43:08 <kerio> symbian was the answer to the iphone before the iphone was even rumoured
Sep 06 13:43:10 <DocScrutinizer05> totalizator: wait what? You just said h-e-n doesn't work? >:-(
Sep 06 13:43:13 <Lava_Croft> but they went down the road of having several teams combat each other
Sep 06 13:43:16 <Lava_Croft> basically the Sony route
Sep 06 13:43:26 <Lava_Croft> Symbian vs Maemo vs whatever
Sep 06 13:43:56 <Lava_Croft> People have trouble looking back further than Elop's dumb burning platform memo
Sep 06 13:44:05 <Edheldil> well, the leadership was chaotic before Elop, that's sure
Sep 06 13:44:15 <Sicelo> your statemets sound more like a management problem than a platform/technology/innovation problem
Sep 06 13:44:16 <Lava_Croft> it certainly isnt chaotic now
Sep 06 13:44:20 <Lava_Croft> Sicelo: exactly
Sep 06 13:44:24 <totalizator> DocScrutinizer05: ok, it works but it's a bit troublesome (comparing to N8xx)
Sep 06 13:44:32 <Lava_Croft> but a managed problem becomes a platform/tech/innovation problem
Sep 06 13:44:35 <Lava_Croft> management*
Sep 06 13:44:49 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: it's good if you put a self-powered usb hub in front of the n900
Sep 06 13:44:51 * Sicelo doubts
Sep 06 13:44:51 <Lava_Croft> it starts at the management, they make the decisions
Sep 06 13:45:10 <Lava_Croft> its not the fine folks who brought us Maemo that make the decisions
Sep 06 13:45:30 <DocScrutinizer05> totalizator: yeah, it's as good as we could make it
Sep 06 13:45:46 <Edheldil> so what? I dislike Elop because he buried what was a nice platform.
Sep 06 13:45:47 <DocScrutinizer05> given the totally fsckdup hw re USB in N900
Sep 06 13:46:11 <Lava_Croft> I dislike Elop for not giving Meego a  chance either
Sep 06 13:46:16 <Lava_Croft> but I cant really blame it on him
Sep 06 13:46:24 <Lava_Croft> Cant blame the cat for eating the fish
Sep 06 13:46:54 <kerio> no but you can kick him the fuck out
Sep 06 13:47:00 <Lava_Croft> Besides, Nokia already screwed up Maemo by going with Meego
Sep 06 13:47:01 <kerio> together with the people who let it in
Sep 06 13:47:10 <Lava_Croft> what good is that going to do
Sep 06 13:47:16 <kerio> vengeance, i suppose
Sep 06 13:47:18 <Lava_Croft> besides make a few uninformed nerds happy
Sep 06 13:47:20 <Edheldil> Lava_Croft:  n9 is maemo, though
Sep 06 13:47:27 <Lava_Croft> yes, but ruined Maemo
Sep 06 13:48:06 <tadzik>  ruined in what way? (curious)
Sep 06 13:48:16 <kerio> tadzik: portrait
Sep 06 13:48:19 * kerio flees
Sep 06 13:48:21 <Lava_Croft> compared to the awesome OS i have on my n900, the N9 just feels a bit weird
Sep 06 13:48:24 <kerio> also no hwkbd
Sep 06 13:48:31 <DocScrutinizer05> HARM is as much maemo as Android is linux
Sep 06 13:48:31 <tadzik> that's not maemo related
Sep 06 13:48:33 <Lava_Croft> with its awful attempt at looking like Meego
Sep 06 13:48:35 <kerio> yes it is
Sep 06 13:48:49 <tadzik> the lack of keyboard? Oh please
Sep 06 13:48:54 <Sicelo> Lava_Croft: so you say Elop has solved the Finnish mess?
Sep 06 13:48:54 <Lava_Croft> thats a hardware problem
Sep 06 13:48:55 <kerio> the lack of a physical keyboard changes *a lot* in the interaction modes
Sep 06 13:48:56 <vi_> N9 is like a castrated N900.
Sep 06 13:48:59 <Edheldil> Lava_Croft:  Elop is a good catchy name for someone's gripe with Nokia,  bear with that
Sep 06 13:49:05 <Lava_Croft> Sicelo: I have no idea
Sep 06 13:49:07 <totalizator> DocScrutinizer05: and I can really appreciate it as on N900 I can have things like working  mouse cursor working without any problems and many other useful stuff
Sep 06 13:49:08 <Lava_Croft> Time will tell
Sep 06 13:49:14 <Lava_Croft> i know for sure the N9 and Harmattan wouldnt have saved Nokia
Sep 06 13:49:18 <Edheldil> even if the problem is more complex and not entirely his fault
Sep 06 13:49:27 <Sicelo> he's been there at least 1.5 years now
Sep 06 13:49:27 <Lava_Croft> I love my N9, but its in no way a real competitor for the iPhone, for example
Sep 06 13:49:35 <kerio> Lava_Croft: well
Sep 06 13:49:35 <vi_> or the n900.
Sep 06 13:49:38 <kerio> does it have angry birds?
Sep 06 13:49:39 <Lava_Croft> we are not talking about pleasing nerds here
Sep 06 13:49:45 <Lava_Croft> but pleasing the masses
Sep 06 13:49:52 <Sicelo> lol
Sep 06 13:49:54 <vi_> the masses voted for hitler.
Sep 06 13:50:02 <Lava_Croft> they also pay your bills, if you are Nokia
Sep 06 13:50:24 <Sicelo> anyway, i'm talking form POV of the masses.. has he restored their confidence in Nokia?
Sep 06 13:50:32 <Lava_Croft> Like I said, i have no idea
Sep 06 13:50:37 <DocScrutinizer05> vi_: if N9 is the neutered N900, what's the N950 then?
Sep 06 13:50:47 <Lava_Croft> At least he has a clear route
Sep 06 13:50:50 <Lava_Croft> and a clear goal
Sep 06 13:50:53 <DocScrutinizer05> the uber-N900? The gone-mad-N900?
Sep 06 13:50:53 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: an autistic donkey.
Sep 06 13:50:55 <Sicelo> what routhe?
Sep 06 13:50:55 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: a strapon
Sep 06 13:51:00 <Lava_Croft> the route of Windows Phone :|
Sep 06 13:51:06 <Lava_Croft> Mind you, im a die-hard Maemo lover
Sep 06 13:51:18 <vi_> A hermaphrodite.
Sep 06 13:51:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: or maybe the weird experiment made by the mad scientist
Sep 06 13:51:48 <vi_> Well I am a die hard functionality lover.
Sep 06 13:51:51 <Edheldil> Lava_Croft:  the problem is that the (un)informed geeks are not sure whether his route is benefiting Nokia foremost, or a certain Redmond company
Sep 06 13:52:02 <vi_> Lack of multitasking==fucking fail.
Sep 06 13:52:09 <Lava_Croft> The geeks are not the ones keeping the company afloat
Sep 06 13:52:15 <Lava_Croft> unless they all buy 500 phones
Sep 06 13:52:19 <Lava_Croft> or more
Sep 06 13:52:30 <vi_> wtf is a geek?
Sep 06 13:52:33 <kerio> Lava_Croft: the masses buy symbian phones
Sep 06 13:52:38 <Lava_Croft> they dont
Sep 06 13:52:41 <Sicelo> Lava_Croft: i have nothing against the man, but, here in Africa, Nokia died to Samsung as soon as Symbian was pronounced dead
Sep 06 13:52:42 <Lava_Croft> they buy iphones and android phones
Sep 06 13:52:45 <kerio> ok, let me rephrase that
Sep 06 13:52:50 <kerio> the masses buy cheap phones
Sep 06 13:52:53 <Lava_Croft> Sicelo: yes, Elop made a mistake there:)
Sep 06 13:52:59 <Lava_Croft> and not a small one either
Sep 06 13:53:09 <Lava_Croft> I think even the man himself acknowledged this
Sep 06 13:53:30 <Lava_Croft> but you cannot disagree that at least now Nokia has a clear goal and is actually working hard towards it
Sep 06 13:53:37 <Lava_Croft> i think the problem with most geeks is the MS hate
Sep 06 13:53:39 <Lava_Croft> more than anything else
Sep 06 13:53:47 <Lava_Croft> its MS and therefore its the spawn of the devil
Sep 06 13:53:50 <Lava_Croft> common nerd logic
Sep 06 13:53:55 <Edheldil> it is, btw.
Sep 06 13:53:57 <Lava_Croft> not really
Sep 06 13:54:07 <Lava_Croft> MS is no better or worse than Nokia, Google, Apple or whatever
Sep 06 13:54:12 <Lava_Croft> just another company making money
Sep 06 13:54:21 <ZogG_laptop> it depends
Sep 06 13:54:35 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia made still shitloads of money with low-end featurephones, though they moaned about vanishing margins. But to declare Sybian dead was cutting the tree they live on
Sep 06 13:54:36 <ZogG_laptop> some do inovations, some sue others
Sep 06 13:54:49 <Edheldil> well ... I could agree with apple, but nokia used to be better, in my eyes
Sep 06 13:54:50 <Lava_Croft> and MS doesnt innovate?
Sep 06 13:55:10 <ZogG_laptop> it's like we compete and i want to be better, while you just changing judges opinion behind my back
Sep 06 13:55:28 <ZogG_laptop> Lava_Croft, where?
Sep 06 13:55:42 <Lava_Croft> forgot how they single handedly changed the entire console market?
Sep 06 13:55:43 <ZogG_laptop> Lava_Croft, Xerox idea, Dos was bought. 
Sep 06 13:55:43 <Lava_Croft> and own it now?
Sep 06 13:55:50 <Sicelo> WP8 supports uSD :P
Sep 06 13:56:04 <jacekowski> WP7 did as well
Sep 06 13:56:19 <Lava_Croft> while MS is not my company of choice, if they really want something, they do have the motivation and deep pockets to get it done
Sep 06 13:56:21 <ZogG_laptop> Lava_Croft, what console market? i have no info on console market at all.
Sep 06 13:56:24 <Lava_Croft> like with the Xbox for example
Sep 06 13:56:28 <Lava_Croft> console, game consoles
Sep 06 13:56:54 <ZogG_laptop> Xbox is better, just coz it easier crackable :P
Sep 06 13:56:55 <Edheldil> they do have the motivation and deep pockets to get it <-- here, amended it for you ;-)
Sep 06 13:57:05 <kerio> s/easier //
Sep 06 13:57:27 <Lava_Croft> life would be better without people living in the 90s and hating on MS
Sep 06 13:57:28 <Lava_Croft> really
Sep 06 13:57:28 <ZogG_laptop> kerio, PS3 is cracked :P
Sep 06 13:57:34 <kerio> not really
Sep 06 13:57:38 <kerio> not in any meaningful way
Sep 06 13:57:44 <ZogG_laptop> kerio, yes it is :P
Sep 06 13:57:49 <Edheldil> PS3 is, xbox360 is not
Sep 06 13:57:52 <kerio> and the x360 is hardly "cracked"
Sep 06 13:57:56 <kerio> it's modchippable
Sep 06 13:58:06 <ZogG_laptop> they do not release it publicly after sony sueing and other reasons
Sep 06 13:58:14 <kerio> the only truly cracked console of this generation is the wii
Sep 06 13:58:20 <kerio> and that's hardly this generation
Sep 06 13:58:25 <ZogG_laptop> wii is not even a console :P
Sep 06 13:58:33 <DocScrutinizer05> thank God it's Friday
Sep 06 13:58:34 <ZogG_laptop> it's just a joke :P
Sep 06 13:58:34 <Edheldil> ps3's private keys were lifted from the device
Sep 06 13:58:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh wait....
Sep 06 13:58:46 <Sicelo> lol DocScrutinizer05 :P
Sep 06 13:58:58 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: just start your weekend earlier
Sep 06 13:59:00 <kerio> nobody will notice
Sep 06 13:59:01 <Sicelo> at least i'm at home, Independence day here ;)
Sep 06 13:59:03 <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer05, what is the coctail of your choice today/
Sep 06 14:00:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't usually drink any alcohol, maybe one beer occasionally. Cocktails not really a usual beverage here
Sep 06 14:01:43 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway my Friday quote above was related to virtual Friday known on IRC as OT day and usually filled with wild discussions and flamewars about what OS is better or why MS sucks so much
Sep 06 14:03:24 <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer05, may i correct you
Sep 06 14:03:50 <Edheldil> Lava_Croft:  I have read a quote once, which ran st. like "We now think that MS becomes better not because they do, but because the others have became worse"
Sep 06 14:03:58 <ZogG_laptop> it actually is not people saying why MS sucks so much, people do know that. It's just few people trying to explain why it doesn't :P
Sep 06 14:05:17 <Lava_Croft> Edheldil: And?
Sep 06 14:05:27 <ZogG_laptop> i like their mouses
Sep 06 14:05:35 <ZogG_laptop> i use those simple white ones
Sep 06 14:05:39 <Lava_Croft> I'm sorry, but all MS hatred just comes across as childish stupidty to me
Sep 06 14:05:42 <ZogG_laptop> and i have 2 for laptop :P
Sep 06 14:05:57 <Lava_Croft> as if one big company is any better than another big company
Sep 06 14:06:23 <Lava_Croft> MS-haters are just as silly as those Apple-fans
Sep 06 14:06:38 <tadzik> or Apple-haters, for that matter
Sep 06 14:06:40 <ZogG_laptop> Lava_Croft, i don't care when people use MS. i just prefer not to. And i more hate politics and HW/SW companies who sold out to support only one system
Sep 06 14:06:57 <ZogG_laptop> Borat, lol
Sep 06 14:07:02 <tadzik> "sold out", big words
Sep 06 14:07:12 <Lava_Croft> how did anyone sell out here
Sep 06 14:07:15 <tadzik> they're companies. They are aimed at making money above everything else
Sep 06 14:07:24 <tadzik> nothing else matters, it's quite simple
Sep 06 14:07:28 <Lava_Croft> exactly
Sep 06 14:07:42 <Lava_Croft> they are not NGO's or something, living off donations and trying to make the world better
Sep 06 14:07:42 <Edheldil> well, often they were extorted not to sell anything else, were not they?
Sep 06 14:07:45 <Lava_Croft> they are just in it to make money
Sep 06 14:08:03 <ZogG_laptop> tadzik, look, for example when in ministure of education they decided to buy i7 with latest windows for people who barely can use office, i think some people made money on that :
Sep 06 14:08:09 <jon_y> have spoken to the sales droids that work there? :)
Sep 06 14:08:25 <tadzik> ZogG_laptop: I don't see how that's related
Sep 06 14:08:32 <tadzik> yes, the world is bad, I'm aware
Sep 06 14:08:34 <Lava_Croft> jon_y: at NGO;? hah yes:D
Sep 06 14:08:35 <tadzik> C'est la vie
Sep 06 14:08:40 <Lava_Croft> silly me! :)
Sep 06 14:08:55 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: the amount of inspiration, professionality and vision is different though between those big companies
Sep 06 14:08:56 <jon_y> I feel sad today, a broadband sales droid approached me
Sep 06 14:09:06 <tadzik> ZogG_laptop: I have a similar situation in the local gov
Sep 06 14:09:10 <ZogG_laptop> tadzik, it's some people who represent MS and some people who make decision, those two made money(taxes)
Sep 06 14:09:13 <jon_y> he can't answer any technical info
Sep 06 14:09:28 <DocScrutinizer05> in that regard MS always just copied and did it even worse than original
Sep 06 14:09:30 <jon_y> the package sounds good on paper
Sep 06 14:09:32 <Lava_Croft> DocScrutinizer05: the amount of inspiration is probably the same, but the amount of freedom this inspiration recieves from management indeed differs greatly per company
Sep 06 14:09:34 <jon_y> almost too good
Sep 06 14:09:44 <Lava_Croft> and DocScrutinizer05 thats not true:)
Sep 06 14:09:49 <Lava_Croft> i can point out the silly Xbox again:)
Sep 06 14:10:05 <Lava_Croft> also, while Windows may be copied, Windows7 is actually the best mainstream desktop OS there is
Sep 06 14:10:09 <Lava_Croft> i cant really help it
Sep 06 14:10:14 <tadzik> C#
Sep 06 14:10:16 * tadzik ducks
Sep 06 14:10:21 <Edheldil> tadzik:  here the govt purchases were so bribed, that finally they start to arrest them, after 20 or so years
Sep 06 14:10:23 <ZogG_laptop> Lava_Croft, i prefer linux here :P
Sep 06 14:10:29 <Lava_Croft> Linux is not an OS
Sep 06 14:10:31 <Edheldil> not enough, though
Sep 06 14:10:33 <Lava_Croft> nor a mainstream desktop OS
Sep 06 14:10:34 <tadzik> Edheldil: arrest whom?
Sep 06 14:10:36 <jon_y> tadzik: javascript :)
Sep 06 14:10:50 <tadzik> jon_y: no, I meant a Microsoft invention that's actually not bad :)
Sep 06 14:10:58 <ZogG_laptop> Lava_Croft, mainstream? you mean popular? and why it's not an OS?
Sep 06 14:11:02 <tadzik> or at least some folks I know say so
Sep 06 14:11:03 <Lava_Croft> its a kernel
Sep 06 14:11:06 <jon_y> yes yes, I've been told Java is cool and can be used to write low level drivers
Sep 06 14:11:12 <jon_y> not sure if its true
Sep 06 14:11:16 <ZogG_laptop> Lava_Croft, Gnu/Linux
Sep 06 14:11:16 <tadzik> I mean people I respect
Sep 06 14:11:33 <tadzik> oh, cut off this GNU/Blah, please
Sep 06 14:11:34 <Lava_Croft> and i didnt mention popular, i mentioned mainstream
Sep 06 14:11:40 <ZogG_laptop> ubuntu (which i don't like) is getting more popular everyday
Sep 06 14:11:49 <Lava_Croft> tadzik: the mobile space made the GNU/Linux usage actually more important than ever
Sep 06 14:11:56 <jon_y> I thought mint over took ubuntu?
Sep 06 14:11:58 <Lava_Croft> because Android lovers might think they run the same Linux as our N9
Sep 06 14:12:16 <jon_y> heh, I can feel the scorn
Sep 06 14:12:20 <tadzik> I meant the GNU/ prefix in naming
Sep 06 14:12:27 <ZogG_laptop> Lava_Croft, meh, i hate all those GNU/linux vs Linux corrections :)
Sep 06 14:12:27 <Lava_Croft> yes, as do i:)
Sep 06 14:12:39 <Lava_Croft> hey, it never really made any sense until android came along:)
Sep 06 14:12:47 <tadzik> oh, I see the point :)
Sep 06 14:12:56 <ZogG_laptop> ok back to project
Sep 06 14:13:11 <tadzik> so whenever somebody blindly s/Linux/GNU\/Linux/ you can throw android in his face
Sep 06 14:13:17 <Lava_Croft> :)
Sep 06 14:13:32 <jon_y> GNU/GNU/Linux
Sep 06 14:13:35 <Lava_Croft> or when some Android nerd says he loves his Linux phone, you throw whatever GNU/Linux at him!
Sep 06 14:13:46 <DocScrutinizer05> android is not even linux
Sep 06 14:13:55 <Lava_Croft> DocScrutinizer05 wakes up
Sep 06 14:13:57 <Lava_Croft> bravo
Sep 06 14:14:04 <jon_y> actually, I do tell my android loving friends that too
Sep 06 14:14:14 <jon_y> android isn't GNU enough
Sep 06 14:14:24 <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-09-06 15:48:30] <DocScrutinizer05> HARM is as much maemo as Android is linux
Sep 06 14:14:28 <jon_y> not GNU/Linux at all
Sep 06 14:15:03 <jon_y> no glibc in android afaik
Sep 06 14:15:05 <Edheldil> Depends on your definition of Linux, I think. But it's probably as much Linux as MacOS X is FreeBSD :)
Sep 06 14:15:10 <jon_y> or ulibc
Sep 06 14:15:14 <DocScrutinizer05> I said linux though, NOT gnu/linux
Sep 06 14:15:58 <tadzik> isn't the GNU/ prefix just about Stallman being sad that nobody gives him credit?
Sep 06 14:16:02 <tadzik> seriously
Sep 06 14:16:09 <Edheldil> no
Sep 06 14:16:12 <jon_y> tadzik: no
Sep 06 14:16:38 <jon_y> it refers to the userland+kernelland combo that you normally expect a Linux system to have
Sep 06 14:16:38 <Edheldil> you know, some people do agree with him
Sep 06 14:16:45 <tadzik> I don't think GNU userland is the point of that OS
Sep 06 14:16:57 <tadzik> you can have GNU userland everywhere, it's the kernel that makes it different
Sep 06 14:17:19 <jon_y> right, it refers to the combo
Sep 06 14:17:35 <Edheldil> I personally do not care that much, but I prefer Debian ecosystem to RedHat's
Sep 06 14:17:35 <tadzik> I probably wouldn't notice having anything different under the hood
Sep 06 14:18:03 <tadzik> or maybe I will, for /bin/true wouldn't be several kilobytes anymore
Sep 06 14:18:20 <jon_y> have you used BSD userland? it's not GNU :)
Sep 06 14:18:27 <tadzik> I did, when I was running BSD
Sep 06 14:18:35 <tadzik> and that's part of my point. It doesn't really matter
Sep 06 14:18:39 <tadzik> but, we digress
Sep 06 14:18:47 <jon_y> it matters if you rely on GNU features
Sep 06 14:19:08 <DocScrutinizer05> digress? lol
Sep 06 14:19:31 <Lava_Croft> a proper GNU userland is the only reason i ever cared about Maemo
Sep 06 14:19:51 <jon_y> very much true for me too
Sep 06 14:19:53 <Lava_Croft> or as proper as you can get
Sep 06 14:19:59 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: good point, indeed
Sep 06 14:20:10 <Lava_Croft> i dont care what kernel it runs
Sep 06 14:20:19 <Lava_Croft> as long as I have have access to much the same tools as on my desktop computer
Sep 06 14:20:24 <kerio> well, not having /proc sucks
Sep 06 14:20:31 <kerio> but that's just a matter of familiarity
Sep 06 14:20:32 <Sicelo> if i never came across n900, i most likely would never have used linux. 
Sep 06 14:20:34 <jon_y> I do care about the kernel though, so I can mess about with it
Sep 06 14:20:52 <jon_y> can't mess with iOS kernel
Sep 06 14:20:59 <Lava_Croft> cant mess with iOS in general
Sep 06 14:21:00 <jon_y> nor winmo kernel
Sep 06 14:21:05 <kerio> jon_y: that's a bootloader problem though
Sep 06 14:21:07 <Lava_Croft> except jailbreak, err HACK it
Sep 06 14:21:11 <kerio> darwin *is* opensource
Sep 06 14:21:25 <kerio> and it's not a bad kernel
Sep 06 14:21:29 <DocScrutinizer05> if I hadn't used linux for years, I probably never had a look at Openmoko phones and thus never came to maemo
Sep 06 14:21:32 <kerio> i mean, every modern mac runs it
Sep 06 14:21:45 <Lava_Croft> I looked at openmoko and laughed, so i was happy Maemo came along
Sep 06 14:21:52 <jacekowski> but it's just kernel
Sep 06 14:22:14 <jacekowski> and besides, it's not exactly open source anymore
Sep 06 14:22:27 <jacekowski> apple has not released anything for few years now
Sep 06 14:22:34 <kerio> jacekowski: really? :(
Sep 06 14:22:45 <kerio> meh, i could've guessed it wouldn't last
Sep 06 14:22:52 <Lava_Croft> Why would Apple even continue that
Sep 06 14:22:55 <jacekowski> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)
Sep 06 14:23:02 <jon_y> I'm guessing Darwin isn't GPL
Sep 06 14:23:03 <jacekowski> Latest unstable release10.0.0d8  (April 24, 2009) [±]
Sep 06 14:23:14 <jacekowski> it was developed by apple
Sep 06 14:23:26 <jacekowski> on their own licence
Sep 06 14:23:33 <jacekowski> and well, they've decided to close it
Sep 06 14:23:38 <jon_y> too bad
Sep 06 14:24:04 <Sicelo> jacekowski: the radio-bcm2048 code on your site is up to date? 
Sep 06 14:25:04 <jacekowski> kinda
Sep 06 14:25:57 <Sicelo> kewl. i'd like to compile it for Nemo's kernel (to use with Debian though)
Sep 06 14:27:05 <Sicelo> although i don't have a good idea how to do that yet
Sep 06 14:30:53 <jacekowski> Sicelo: well, i've done mods to binaries
Sep 06 14:38:03 <Timmy> i have kernel power 50 on my device. can i install CSSU thumb?
Sep 06 14:38:26 <Timmy> kuz it explained it needs kernel power 51
Sep 06 14:39:09 <Sicelo> Timmy: iirc that has its own kernel
Sep 06 14:40:25 <Timmy> pardon me?
Sep 06 14:40:46 <kerio> Timmy: it installs its own kernel, but if you want to stay with kernel-power you should install kp51r1
Sep 06 14:40:49 <kerio> it's in extras-devel
Sep 06 14:41:08 <kerio> kernel-cssu is effectively the same, but packaged in a different way
Sep 06 14:41:17 <Timmy> ah,right
Sep 06 14:41:17 <kerio> i'd use KP51
Sep 06 14:41:46 <kerio> the dependency is met by kernel-power-flasher 51r1 and by kernel-cssu
Sep 06 14:42:01 <Lava_Croft> haha, what
Sep 06 14:42:02 <Lava_Croft> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu3SchQ6zvM
Sep 06 14:42:04 <kerio> (the -thumb package require kernel-feature-<number>-errata)
Sep 06 14:42:09 <Lava_Croft> talk about nice 'hack'
Sep 06 14:42:38 <kerio> graphite is a decent conductor
Sep 06 14:42:41 <kerio> isn't it?
Sep 06 14:43:39 <Sicelo> jacekowski: thanks for info. i still have some learning to do
Sep 06 14:51:04 <Timmy> im installing cssu thumb and it's telling me that i need to use pc suite on pc, what is this???? i don't understand, what's pc suite?
Sep 06 14:51:34 <tadzik> \
Sep 06 14:52:05 <kerio> Timmy: there's a conflict somewhere
Sep 06 14:52:20 <kerio> Timmy: did you install kernel-power 51r1?
Sep 06 14:52:54 <Timmy> no, you said it will install its own kernel
Sep 06 14:53:12 <Sicelo>  PC suite :P
Sep 06 14:53:25 <kerio> Timmy: that's probably the conflict
Sep 06 14:53:32 <kerio> just upgrade kernel-power, seriously
Sep 06 14:54:10 <Timmy> ok, do i need to upgrade kernel-power-settings too?
Sep 06 14:54:39 <kerio> sure, why not
Sep 06 14:54:57 <kerio> how do people stand not having the stuff correctly upgraded?
Sep 06 14:54:58 <kerio> :s
Sep 06 15:23:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: bwahahaha
Sep 06 15:24:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ~lart HAM "use PC suite mode" msg
Sep 06 15:24:46 * infobot tries to shut HAM "use PC suite mode" msg up
Sep 06 15:25:29 <DocScrutinizer05> epic obfuscated error msg, worse than most windoze msgs
Sep 06 15:26:27 <DocScrutinizer05> "Conflict! either solve manually, or reflash (e.g. using PCsuite)"  muuuuuch better
Sep 06 15:27:08 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
Sep 06 15:33:57 <kerio> indeed
Sep 06 15:49:43 <Timmy> i was installing cssu but installation was unsuccessful.now i am going to install it again, but can't find the cssu enabler icon in the menu, where can i find it or how can i run it to install cssu?
Sep 06 15:52:35 <DocScrutinizer05> Timmy: how can cssu installation be unsuccessful?
Sep 06 15:54:03 <DocScrutinizer05> we actually never heard of an unsucessful CSSU install, when all advices from http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation were obeyed
Sep 06 15:54:03 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: "use PC suite mode"
Sep 06 15:54:10 <kerio> and he's talking about -thumb
Sep 06 15:54:12 <kerio> freemangordon: *poke*
Sep 06 15:54:17 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
Sep 06 15:54:26 <kerio> Timmy: cssu-thumb is not cssu
Sep 06 15:54:43 <Timmy> well, i was going to install cssu thumb but didn't know kernel power 51 is needed for that, so due the installation (in the beginnig) i had canceled and installed KP51
Sep 06 15:54:43 <kerio> Timmy: ask freemangordon for help
Sep 06 15:54:53 <kerio> it's not *needed*, it's just better
Sep 06 15:55:46 <Timmy> anyway, i cant find the icon in the menu to install that
Sep 06 15:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> there's no sane way to roll back a aborted install. You need full reflash and start from scratch
Sep 06 15:57:19 <DocScrutinizer05> and don't listen to kerio and the weird hackish tips he'll come up with in a second, you will make matters worse for you since you lose completely any teack of what's going on on your device
Sep 06 15:57:29 <kerio> i suggested nothing
Sep 06 15:57:44 <kerio> although apt-get upgrading could fix it
Sep 06 15:57:45 <DocScrutinizer05> track*
Sep 06 15:57:55 <DocScrutinizer05> haha, yeah
Sep 06 15:57:56 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Sep 06 15:58:09 <DocScrutinizer05> toldya
Sep 06 15:58:13 <Timmy> :'(
Sep 06 15:58:18 <kerio> c:
Sep 06 15:58:27 <kerio> Timmy: do you have anything important on your n900?
Sep 06 15:58:33 <Timmy> no
Sep 06 15:58:35 <kerio> and did you make a backup with backupmenu?
Sep 06 15:58:47 <Timmy> there is nothin on my phone
Sep 06 15:58:58 <Timmy> but i hate to reflash
Sep 06 15:59:34 <Timmy> i prefer to run a broken maemo but not to reflash
Sep 06 15:59:41 <DocScrutinizer05> we recently renamed that to "tickle the pony" so no matter to hate it anymore ;-P
Sep 06 16:01:10 <kerio> tickle the pony?
Sep 06 16:01:11 <kerio> really?
Sep 06 16:01:29 <DocScrutinizer05> so you should go tickle your pony, then install backup menu, do backup, install cssu-t, do anohter BM-backup, then follow instructions about cssu-testing-thumb if that's what you *really* wanna do
Sep 06 16:01:56 <kerio> yeah, i'd install cssu-testing and make sure it works before installing cssu-thumb
Sep 06 16:02:41 <Timmy> hehehe
Sep 06 16:02:45 <Timmy> lol
Sep 06 16:03:02 <DocScrutinizer05> I have to admit I completely lost track of all this weird cssu-(testing|thumb|kernel|whatnot) mess
Sep 06 16:04:04 <DocScrutinizer05> and for sure thumb is not ready for end users, esp regarding support in installation and maintenance
Sep 06 16:04:34 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll need some advanced knowledge about apt and dpkg and how repos work and that kinda stuff
Sep 06 16:04:35 <vi_> thumb is great
Sep 06 16:04:42 <vi_> DEAL WITH IT.
Sep 06 16:05:09 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: actually, fmg claims that all you need to do is tap a .install link
Sep 06 16:05:19 <DocScrutinizer05> so what? SMT also is great, still I don't suggest users should solder their own RAM extension
Sep 06 16:05:26 <kerio> SMT?
Sep 06 16:05:34 <DocScrutinizer05> surface mount technology
Sep 06 16:05:39 <Timmy> i've been a debian user for a long while but maemo is totally weird!
Sep 06 16:05:43 <kerio> oic
Sep 06 16:05:54 <kerio> Timmy: nah, it's only moderately silly
Sep 06 16:05:54 <vi_> If you cannot do your own 0603 you are a fag.
Sep 06 16:06:03 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Sep 06 16:06:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ~buzzfix
Sep 06 16:06:24 <infobot> i heard buzzfix is http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/  and   http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_Fix  and  http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2008-August/000267.html ff.
Sep 06 16:07:18 <DocScrutinizer05> those friggin 0603 tend to disolve into air whenever you drop them on any -even clean and smooth - surface
Sep 06 16:07:39 <DocScrutinizer05> they simply vanish
Sep 06 16:08:02 <DocScrutinizer05> there must be special micro-wormholes for 0603
Sep 06 16:08:26 <vi_> Thats because they exist mainly at the quantum level.
Sep 06 16:08:35 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Sep 06 16:08:41 <vi_> Their 3d extension into our physical space is extremely unstable.
Sep 06 16:08:53 <DocScrutinizer05> never worked with 0201 though
Sep 06 16:09:14 <SpeedEvil> there is a mad guy over on ##electronics who's used them.
Sep 06 16:09:25 <SpeedEvil> 01005
Sep 06 16:09:26 <DocScrutinizer05> heard they literally disolve on PCB over time
Sep 06 16:09:34 <vi_> You could probably breathe one and not even notice.
Sep 06 16:09:55 <SpeedEvil> he's also trying to setup a garage CMOS process.
Sep 06 16:10:04 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq
Sep 06 16:10:13 <SpeedEvil> and make his own softcore FPGA laptop
Sep 06 16:10:20 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Sep 06 16:10:29 <vi_> SpeedEvil: bullshit
Sep 06 16:10:36 <DocScrutinizer05> he's clearly doing all that just for fame
Sep 06 16:10:38 <vi_> no one is that unhinged.
Sep 06 16:10:51 <SpeedEvil> oddly enough, he does seem to be.
Sep 06 16:10:59 <vi_> wait...
Sep 06 16:11:07 <vi_> a softcore FPGA laptop would suck.
Sep 06 16:11:20 <DocScrutinizer05> donkey balls
Sep 06 16:11:33 <SpeedEvil> it's not for performance.
Sep 06 16:11:36 <DocScrutinizer05> esp when made on "homebrew chips"
Sep 06 16:11:57 <SpeedEvil> wacky provable security. TCP/IP in firmware
Sep 06 16:12:14 <DocScrutinizer05> *cough*
Sep 06 16:12:16 <vi_> I wrote an SHA1 digest core in VHDL for my dissertation.
Sep 06 16:12:39 <DocScrutinizer05> nice
Sep 06 16:13:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I know the yiled of professional chip fabs on first few 1000 samples
Sep 06 16:13:09 <vi_> I had wild dreams of compromising WPA
Sep 06 16:13:11 <DocScrutinizer05> yield*
Sep 06 16:13:30 <SpeedEvil> it's a toy non serious process.
Sep 06 16:13:40 <vi_> THen I discovered somone had already done it, better faster and bigger than I could even imagine.
Sep 06 16:14:20 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: http://nsa.unaligned.org/
Sep 06 16:14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and they got floor 'carpet' there that's more expensive per square meter than what you could probably afford to cram into a garage, as amateur
Sep 06 16:14:24 <SpeedEvil> http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/
Sep 06 16:14:37 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: read that guys website.
Sep 06 16:14:50 <vi_> DocScrutinizer05: You will spunk thick ropes of engineering jizz.
Sep 06 16:15:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd be surprised if he made it to build a working CD40001 type quad gate
Sep 06 16:16:16 <SpeedEvil> he seems capable.
Sep 06 16:16:40 <SpeedEvil> it's. a hell of a lot of work to get to even a 50um process
Sep 06 16:17:00 <SpeedEvil> especially trying to avoid nasty reagents.
Sep 06 16:18:02 <Woody14619> ping chem|st
Sep 06 16:20:35 <Woody14619> doah... never mind... Looks like it was already taken care of. ;)  Thanks!
Sep 06 16:25:47 <DocScrutinizer05> cya folks
Sep 06 16:28:54 <Timmy> kerio: just found out what to do, but again i see it's telling me about pc studio issue
Sep 06 16:29:05 <Timmy> i have installed KP51
Sep 06 16:34:14 <kerio> maybe that's the problem
Sep 06 16:34:15 <kerio> idk
Sep 06 16:34:36 <kerio> what does the log say?
Sep 06 16:34:55 <kerio> there are a couple of configuration options you can set to make HAM tell you more about the problems
Sep 06 16:35:36 <Timmy> im installing that through apt-get upgrade
Sep 06 16:38:41 <DocScrutinizer05> X-P
Sep 06 16:39:35 <DocScrutinizer05> the probelm with maemo is nothing works as you might expect. e.g. apt-get upgrade usually breaks your system
Sep 06 16:40:26 <kerio> does not
Sep 06 16:40:28 <kerio> >:c
Sep 06 16:42:01 <DocScrutinizer05> well, up to you to make Timmy hop another dozen loops and confuse him until finally.... whatever, but not we're talking him out of that mess then
Sep 06 16:42:40 <kerio> Timmy: i'd say restore the backup, don't install kernel-power, and install cssu-testing
Sep 06 16:45:53 <DocScrutinizer05> he really said he got a BM backup? missed that
Sep 06 16:46:03 <kerio> i hope he does, we told him to
Sep 06 16:46:06 <kerio> *to get one
Sep 06 16:46:56 <DocScrutinizer05> seems he doesn't like to listen to what we tell him
Sep 06 16:47:17 <DocScrutinizer05> since - you know - he used debian since ages
Sep 06 16:47:32 <kerio> to be fair community-ssu-updater is a kludge
Sep 06 16:47:42 <DocScrutinizer05> bullshit
Sep 06 16:48:08 <DocScrutinizer05> there's not even such a thing like community-ssu-updater 
Sep 06 16:48:11 <kerio> er
Sep 06 16:48:16 <kerio> community-ssu-installer
Sep 06 16:48:31 <DocScrutinizer05> improve it if you're so smart
Sep 06 16:48:53 <kerio> i didn't say i had a better way of doing that kind of stuff
Sep 06 16:48:56 <kerio> in fact, i don't think there is
Sep 06 16:48:58 <kerio> because nokia
Sep 06 16:49:06 <kerio> but a necessary evil is still evil
Sep 06 16:51:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I think the instructions @ http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation are pretty fine
Sep 06 17:00:41 <Timmy> hello again, i was not here, so it seems that cssu hasbeen installed, let's see what happens after a reboot
Sep 06 17:00:46 <Timmy> brb
Sep 06 17:04:39 <Timmy> im back
Sep 06 17:04:54 <Timmy> seems nothin has been broken
Sep 06 17:10:43 <Timmy> it has installed everything execpt maemo 5 CSSU package(thumb)
Sep 06 17:10:57 <Timmy> and still cant install that through ham
Sep 06 17:14:16 <DocScrutinizer05> well, HAM will tell you WHY it refuses to install anything
Sep 06 17:15:07 <DocScrutinizer05> would me mad useful to have a look at "problems" tab in HAM, and maybe even pstebin the log to be found in dropdown menu of HAM
Sep 06 17:18:59 <Timmy> dude, there is no useful info in the log
Sep 06 17:22:17 <DocScrutinizer05> and in problems tab?
Sep 06 17:23:12 <Timmy> there's no such thing here
Sep 06 17:24:14 <DocScrutinizer05> if HAM claims there are problems and you should use OVI suite, there's usually a problems tab (most right hand one of three tabs, under 'details' for the package to install)
Sep 06 17:25:44 <DocScrutinizer05> if there isn't (I dunno if that ever happens) then you simply might be short on free storage. HAM has some checks for available free storage size
Sep 06 17:31:20 <ZogG_laptop> Woody14619, ping
Sep 06 17:31:23 <Lava_Croft> DocScrutinizer05: that was a nice hack, eh? :)
Sep 06 17:31:29 <Lava_Croft> It made me smile widely
Sep 06 17:34:28 <merlin1991> just keep in mind, the problems tab appears 1 dialog prior the pc suite msg
Sep 06 17:35:48 <merlin1991> and you have to wait a bit for it to show up in the tabs
Sep 06 17:51:50 * RST38h yawns, twice
Sep 06 17:54:11 <Timmy> yeppiee, i have installed that through fap,just added its repository in fap and upgraded all
Sep 06 17:55:06 <DocScrutinizer05> x.x
Sep 06 17:55:31 <Timmy> what?
Sep 06 17:55:35 <RST38h> Doc: Have you see the latest example of how well Nokia adopts MS corporate culture?
Sep 06 17:55:53 <Timmy> is it wrong?
Sep 06 17:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, what?
Sep 06 17:56:28 <RST38h> Doc: Well,for starters they installed a regular camera in their newest Lumia and called it PureView (MS rule #1: LIE!)
Sep 06 17:56:41 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Sep 06 17:57:19 <DocScrutinizer05> allegedly due to the "better efficiency of sensor"
Sep 06 17:57:22 <RST38h> Doc: Then they shot a promotional video for the above camera, as if it were done with the camera itself (including comparisons). As it turns out the video was shot with professional equipment (comparisons included)
Sep 06 17:57:33 <RST38h> Doc: (MS rule #2: LIE MORE!)
Sep 06 17:57:40 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah again, seen that
Sep 06 17:58:14 <RST38h> and yeah, the stock is down again, right when they announced win8 handset
Sep 06 17:59:22 <kerio> is that part of the MS corporate culture too?
Sep 06 17:59:31 <kerio> i mean, they're definetely used to, but...
Sep 06 18:11:09 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: which hack do you refer to?
Sep 06 18:18:44 <qwazix> anybody knows if the timeout for the lights on after powerbutton press (i.e. bring up the lockscreen) is configurable?
Sep 06 18:19:17 <DocScrutinizer05> hm? sorry, which lights?
Sep 06 18:19:49 <DocScrutinizer05> you mean the time until lockscreen dims?
Sep 06 18:20:30 <qwazix> Your N900 is locked. You press the pwrbtn. Light's up. $t secs pass. lights turn off again
Sep 06 18:20:40 <qwazix> I'm looking to extend $t
Sep 06 18:21:24 <DocScrutinizer05> not sure where to tweak that
Sep 06 18:21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe hardcoded to lockscreen
Sep 06 18:21:57 <qwazix> hm, possibly... I'look around see what I can do
Sep 06 18:23:01 <qwazix> thanks
Sep 06 18:24:04 <DocScrutinizer05> the weird thing: there's a fast timeout when you do nothing, and a way longer timeout but still a timeout when you constantly create touch evens that don't unlock the lockscreen via slider though
Sep 06 18:25:52 <Lava_Croft> DocScrutinizer05: unbricking that samsung device
Sep 06 18:26:02 <Lava_Croft> using mcguyver tech
Sep 06 18:26:14 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah, that one. The homemade resistor
Sep 06 18:26:20 <Lava_Croft> :)
Sep 06 18:26:31 <Lava_Croft> it still needed nokia tech tho
Sep 06 18:30:21 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: nothing related I could spot in mce.ini either
Sep 06 18:31:03 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer05, i found a hacky way to do it. Simulate powerbutton presses every 3 seconds :)
Sep 06 18:31:33 <qwazix> not sure if it will work though, trying now
Sep 06 18:35:18 <DocScrutinizer05> gconftool -R /|grep timeout   also doen't show anything
Sep 06 18:35:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess it's hardcoded to lockscreen
Sep 06 18:47:44 <DocScrutinizer05> (something I never really looked into, since lockscreen for me is exclusively used to watch the time)
Sep 06 18:55:16 <kerio> would qtlockscreen be configurable in that regard?
Sep 06 18:59:43 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Sep 06 19:01:59 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't even know what lockscreen 'binary' will get called by whom in which way
Sep 06 19:06:15 <piggz> whats involved in porting an app from n9 to n900?  are the qml components (qt-components-10) near enough compatible?
Sep 06 19:06:38 <piggz> i cant even remember how to use my n900 vm build system!
Sep 06 19:33:55 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix_: I'd think it's /usr/bin/systemui that somehow does lockscreen
Sep 06 19:34:39 <qwazix_> DocScrutinizer05, thanks, is that opensource?
Sep 06 19:35:00 <DocScrutinizer05> no idea, just found the process of that name being active
Sep 06 19:35:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ls -l /usr/lib/systemui/
Sep 06 19:36:31 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe libsystemuiplugin_devlock.so
Sep 06 19:36:43 <DocScrutinizer05> or libsystemuiplugin_splashscreen.so
Sep 06 19:37:04 <DocScrutinizer05> or libsystemuiplugin_tklock.so
Sep 06 19:37:59 <qwazix_> tklock I know is closed unfortunately...
Sep 06 19:42:48 <DocScrutinizer05> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-07-05.log.html#t2011-07-05T13:42:49
Sep 06 19:43:55 <DocScrutinizer05> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-07-05.log.html#t2011-07-05T13:19:31
Sep 06 19:45:36 <DocScrutinizer05> seems MohammadAG worked on something
Sep 06 19:50:41 <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix_: ^^^
Sep 06 19:51:14 <qwazix_> DocScrutinizer05, checking it out
Sep 06 19:51:57 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: ping
Sep 06 19:52:15 <DocScrutinizer05> MohammadAG: didn't you mess around with lockscreen once?
Sep 06 19:54:06 <qwazix_> DocScrutinizer05, idk if you have seen timenow, now with some help from nicolai I managed to make the N900 show the lockscreen when you pull it out of pocket
Sep 06 19:54:46 <qwazix_> I'd prefer if it could stay on for a little longer and have a lower backlight.
Sep 06 19:55:10 <qwazix_> Anyway it's much better than before with the framebuffer and text2screen
Sep 06 19:56:05 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry no, never heard of timenow
Sep 06 20:12:07 <qwazix_> let's see if TKLOCK_ENABLE_VISUAL exists in maemo...
Sep 06 20:15:40 <qwazix_> perfect! it exists! No more faked powerbutton presses :)
Sep 06 20:17:09 <qwazix_> Now I can call that in a loop in qt and extend the time.
Sep 06 20:17:45 <qwazix_> Thank you, DocScrutinizer05!!
Sep 06 20:25:16 <kerio> what's TKLOCK_ENABLE_VISUAL?
Sep 06 20:44:03 <AndroUser2> hello?
Sep 06 20:47:21 <DocScrutinizer05> hello!
Sep 06 20:48:39 <DocScrutinizer05> why ? ?
Sep 06 23:32:59 <jacekowski> i really have to say that i like wp8 and nokia a lot more than yesterday
Sep 06 23:33:12 <jacekowski> tbh. i think i'll go with lumia as my next phone
Sep 06 23:38:47 <SpeedEvil> why?
Sep 06 23:38:59 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Sep 06 23:39:02 <GeneralAntilles> Trollolol
Sep 06 23:40:54 <M4rtinK> that ad was EPIC
Sep 06 23:41:05 <M4rtinK> well, EPIC FAIL :) 
Sep 06 23:42:07 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: because it's not java
Sep 06 23:42:09 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: it's c#
Sep 06 23:42:12 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: it's from nokia
Sep 06 23:42:47 <jacekowski> and well, wp8 doesn't really have anything missing
Sep 06 23:44:43 <jacekowski> + touschcreen that according to some people works with pens fingers gloves nails
Sep 06 23:44:45 <jacekowski> and everything
Sep 06 23:44:49 <SpeedEvil> :-\ 
Sep 06 23:45:06 <jacekowski> if that's true, then it may be a real replacement for resistive screens
Sep 06 23:45:11 <SpeedEvil> it's a shame we're reduced to least bad
Sep 06 23:45:20 <SpeedEvil> indeed
Sep 06 23:45:47 <jacekowski> well, it's harder to scratch glass
Sep 06 23:45:58 <jacekowski> and that is fairly important feature
Sep 06 23:46:06 <jacekowski> and resistive on glass is not really an option
Sep 06 23:48:14 <SpeedEvil> I want saw.
Sep 06 23:48:32 <jacekowski> i don't think it's ready
Sep 06 23:49:54 <jacekowski> and talking about other phone OSes
Sep 06 23:50:10 <jacekowski> android on high end phone is pretty fast and everything
Sep 06 23:50:32 <jacekowski> though application wise, there isn't much of usefull apps
Sep 06 23:50:47 <jacekowski> if you filter all the crap out there is not much left
Sep 06 23:52:36 <jacekowski> it's going to sound like ad again
Sep 06 23:52:45 <jacekowski> but i think android is a downgrade from win ce
Sep 06 23:52:55 <jacekowski> or from maemo
Sep 06 23:53:56 <jacekowski> and lack of hw keyboard in modern phones brings them close to useless anyways
Sep 06 23:55:34 <jacekowski> 0.
Sep 06 23:56:50 * DocScrutinizer05 thinks he will get a used communicator for next phone - - - after using up the 5 N900
Sep 06 23:58:34 <nox-> does that jolla will use aegis too?
Sep 06 23:58:39 <DocScrutinizer05> call me silly and childish, but I did a holy promise to never again support MS by puschasing any of their stuff or (generally) anything needing their stuff, due to the hard times and baldy head they gave me
Sep 06 23:58:52 <nox-> does that mean...
Sep 06 23:59:01 <GeneralAntilles> nox-, we don't know.
Sep 06 23:59:06 <nox-> ok
Sep 06 23:59:15 <DocScrutinizer05> stskeeps said that no
Sep 06 23:59:24 <DocScrutinizer05> kinda
Sep 06 23:59:26 <nox-> one can only hope...
Sep 06 23:59:26 <jacekowski> jolla?
Sep 06 23:59:35 <jacekowski> what's jolla
Sep 06 23:59:35 <GeneralAntilles> jacekowski, have you been living under a rock?
Sep 06 23:59:40 <GeneralAntilles> Apparently yes.
Sep 06 23:59:44 <DocScrutinizer05> jollajollajolla
Sep 06 23:59:50 <jacekowski> link
Sep 06 23:59:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch
Sep 07 00:00:00 <DocScrutinizer05> #jollamobile
Sep 07 00:00:02 <jacekowski> oO
Sep 07 00:00:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ex nokia ;-P
Sep 07 00:00:20 <jacekowski> oooooooooooooooo
Sep 07 00:00:47 <jacekowski> who's going to build those?
Sep 07 00:01:01 <DocScrutinizer05> THAT we don't know
Sep 07 00:01:29 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a LOT of small and medium sized fabs that manuf whatever you hand them
Sep 07 00:01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> Nokia neither manuf'ed on own gabs afaik
Sep 07 00:02:01 <DocScrutinizer05> fabs*
Sep 07 00:02:13 <jacekowski> who's going to pay for it all
Sep 07 00:02:18 <jacekowski> those fabs don't work for free
Sep 07 00:02:26 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.mwkn.net/2012/28/front.html
Sep 07 00:02:29 <DocScrutinizer05> THAT we also don't know, but somebody with huge pockets
Sep 07 00:02:43 <GeneralAntilles> jacekowski, apparently they have a lot of private capital.
Sep 07 00:03:23 <DocScrutinizer05> or at least they think it's a lot
Sep 07 00:03:29 <SpeedEvil> huge pockets?
Sep 07 00:03:36 <DocScrutinizer05> actually some few millions are nuttin in this business
Sep 07 00:03:50 <SpeedEvil> so the first device is a 12"tablet?
Sep 07 00:03:56 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Sep 07 00:04:20 <DocScrutinizer05> THAT we also don't know ;-P
Sep 07 00:04:28 <jacekowski> i would really like a phone that has HW keyboard, lasts at least 2 days of use on battery (week ideally), it's IP67 rated, runs linux with X but with option to run android apps as well 
Sep 07 00:04:35 <jacekowski> and it floats
Sep 07 00:04:49 <DocScrutinizer05> but it seems whatever the screen size, it will have some phone functionality aiui
Sep 07 00:04:55 <SpeedEvil> and can be sat on.
Sep 07 00:05:32 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, unless it flies I don't care
Sep 07 00:05:42 <DocScrutinizer05> and not only straight downward
Sep 07 00:06:03 <SpeedEvil> I've been thinking that a nexus 7 with 2g of ram, with Linux/android and 3g modem might be close to ideal for me.
Sep 07 00:06:06 <DocScrutinizer05> IP67 hehehe
Sep 07 00:06:09 <nox-> wasnt there a n900fly thing? :)
Sep 07 00:06:25 <SpeedEvil> :-( 
Sep 07 00:06:30 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah incredible
Sep 07 00:07:21 <SpeedEvil> I now have a broken n7. dropping from 1.5m onto corner on rock killed touchscreen.
Sep 07 00:07:34 <DocScrutinizer05> dang
Sep 07 00:07:53 <SpeedEvil> otoh, I can now open it and play with the innards.
Sep 07 00:08:07 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds XXX rated
Sep 07 00:09:56 <DocScrutinizer05> grr timasmoff, jaffa, this article starts with two words I had to look up in dictionary, one of them not in there :-(
Sep 07 00:10:02 <SpeedEvil> I am wondering about interfacing to other screens.
Sep 07 00:10:05 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF stalwart?
Sep 07 00:10:18 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: ^^^
Sep 07 00:10:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict stalwarts
Sep 07 00:11:01 <infobot> could not find definition for stalwarts
Sep 07 00:11:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict downtrodden
Sep 07 00:11:20 <infobot> Dictionary 'downtrodden' (2 of 3): Trodden down; trampled down; abused by superior power. --Shak. Downward ;; abused or oppressed by people in power.
Sep 07 00:11:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict respleded
Sep 07 00:11:54 <infobot> could not find definition for respleded
Sep 07 00:12:42 <SpeedEvil> that's not a word
Sep 07 00:13:02 <SpeedEvil> resplendent?
Sep 07 00:13:53 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe
Sep 07 00:14:27 * DocScrutinizer05 frowns on >> a "new smartphone using this MeeGo based OS will be revealed later this year." No detailed specifics about the stack have been announced beyond it being based on the Mer Core and Qt, with Jolla providing their own UI on top.
Sep 07 00:14:59 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds like they're doing it *again*
Sep 07 00:15:44 <DocScrutinizer05> it == spin a 'proprietary' GUI of their own wet dreams, without any community participation and most probably again closed
Sep 07 00:16:24 <SpeedEvil> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=1879299&sid=5996fb40b25a83c1628eed2111ebbb62#p1879299
Sep 07 00:16:46 <SpeedEvil> a rant on this very topic, written several years back
Sep 07 00:18:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ((>>The silliest bits of 'Under Heavy Manners' are, in fact, the most important: "I am resplendent in divergence". "Remain in hell without despair"<<))
Sep 07 00:19:19 <DocScrutinizer05> oh Urizel!
Sep 07 00:22:26 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: hey, I bookmarked this rant some 5 days ago ;-)
Sep 07 00:26:06 <Ken-Young> Is there anyone around who has installed the Maemo 5 SDK on a linux system recently?
Sep 07 00:26:22 <SpeedEvil> not Jere.
Sep 07 00:26:25 <SpeedEvil> here
Sep 07 00:26:32 <SpeedEvil> sigh.
Sep 07 00:26:45 <Ken-Young> Zut alors!
Sep 07 00:27:16 <SpeedEvil> I need some way to feed this vkbd 20m of my text.
Sep 07 00:28:34 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJSQOepI9YA
Sep 07 00:33:55 <SpeedEvil> :-) 
Sep 07 00:34:14 <SpeedEvil> seen mikeselectricstuff on YouTube?
Sep 07 00:34:48 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p50lX-O17mQ
Sep 07 00:34:50 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Sep 07 00:40:38 <DocScrutinizer05> "continue:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJSQOepI9YA
Sep 07 00:42:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, so
Sep 07 00:42:12 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict replendent
Sep 07 00:42:15 <infobot> could not find definition for replendent
Sep 07 00:42:33 <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much
Sep 07 00:46:27 <Ken-Young> It's a perfectly cromulent word.
Sep 07 01:31:26 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, I wrote that article.
Sep 07 01:31:32 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, which words are you confused by? :P
Sep 07 01:31:54 <DocScrutinizer05> stalwarts
Sep 07 01:32:12 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict stalwarts
Sep 07 01:32:14 <infobot> could not find definition for stalwarts
Sep 07 01:32:29 <GeneralAntilles> It's an abuse of stalwart
Sep 07 01:32:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict stalwart
Sep 07 01:32:40 <infobot> Dictionary 'stalwart' (2 of 6): having rugged physical strength; inured to fatigue or hardships; "hardy explorers of northern Canada"; "proud of her tall stalwart son"; "stout seamen"; "sturdy young athletes"  ;; used especially of persons; "a stalwart knight"; "a stouthearted fellow who had an active career in the army" .
Sep 07 01:32:42 <SpeedEvil> stalwarts - reliable men
Sep 07 01:32:44 <DocScrutinizer05> duh
Sep 07 01:32:50 <GeneralAntilles> Well, I guess not so much an abuse as the lesser-used plural noun form.
Sep 07 01:36:08 * DocScrutinizer05 docScrutinizers about nouned adverbs
Sep 07 01:36:21 <DocScrutinizer05> poettering
Sep 07 01:39:50 <DocScrutinizer05> to poetter?
Sep 07 01:40:50 <DocScrutinizer05> Fripp intervies seem to have potential to confuse the mind
Sep 07 01:41:54 <GeneralAntilles> Halfway through replacing an old (1960s) electrical subpanel and 3 timers for the pool
Sep 07 01:42:08 <GeneralAntilles> With a single subpanel + 2 timer enclosure.
Sep 07 01:42:11 <GeneralAntilles> So much nicer.
Sep 07 01:42:12 <DocScrutinizer05> yay, fun
Sep 07 01:42:32 <DocScrutinizer05> 60s' electrics are usually so....
Sep 07 01:42:36 <DocScrutinizer05> dusty?
Sep 07 01:42:45 <GeneralAntilles> Rusty, dusty, and mean.
Sep 07 01:43:10 <GeneralAntilles> Need to reroute all the conduit now. . . .
Sep 07 01:44:21 <SpeedEvil> wide enough conduit is great. I recommend 80cm
Sep 07 01:44:47 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 07 02:59:59 2012