**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 07 02:59:59 2012
Sep 07 05:11:33 <GGon> LOL
Sep 07 05:11:39 <GGon> http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/09/06/nokia-admits-faking-video-for-new-lumia-smartphone/?intcmp=obinsite
Sep 07 05:11:45 <GGon> AWESOME JOB NOKIA!
Sep 07 05:17:16 <Sicelo> indeed lol. when i saw RST38h mention it hours ago, i just remembered a convo that was here where it was said Elop has a clear goal and knows how to execute it
Sep 07 05:17:22 <Sicelo> :-/
Sep 07 05:17:48 <Sicelo> one thing for sure, this will haunt Nokia for a long time
Sep 07 05:18:32 <GGon> yeah heh
Sep 07 05:18:38 <GGon> that's crazy
Sep 07 05:19:02 <GGon> not to mention the people who filmed the video.. i mean cmon.. camera man caught in a frame? that's just fail
Sep 07 05:20:58 <Sicelo> disappointing. the 920 seems to be a fine device though. too bad they have cursed it now
Sep 07 05:23:03 <Sicelo> then again, wasn't it Elop that blamed marketting/sales for Nokia's problems? i guess the poor guys were trying to please him
Sep 07 05:35:35 <GGon> hahaha
Sep 07 05:35:57 <GGon> i don't understand how blunder after blunder this guy is still in charge of nokia
Sep 07 05:36:19 <GGon> since he has become ceo nokia has had to have lost like 90% of its value :)
Sep 07 05:40:59 <Sicelo> maybe Nokia should have pushed to be exclusive hardware manufacturer for WPx
Sep 07 05:43:28 <Sicelo> that said, has anyone successfully booted something else on the current Lumias?
Sep 07 08:26:44 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer05: As you'll have noticed, the article was edited by GeneralAntilles. FWIW, I don't think "downtrodden" or "stalwart" are words to necessarily avoid.
Sep 07 10:09:22 <parranda> sorry for being a bother but I'm unable to connect to a TTLS PAP wifi network on my N900
Sep 07 10:09:50 <parranda> I have, AFAIK, PR1.3 and wlantool has the PAP enabling option checked when I run it
Sep 07 10:10:07 <Lava_Croft> Sicelo: I don't think so :<
Sep 07 10:10:23 <Lava_Croft> Don't think MS would dig that either :<
Sep 07 10:10:57 <parranda> could someone give me a hint about whether I need to mess around with the configuration editor so it actually notices everything is PAP (as it is, all strings in that wifi key are MSCHAPv2
Sep 07 10:12:00 <tadzik> I successfully use MSCHAPv2 on my n900
Sep 07 10:12:13 <tadzik> no special magic in the configuration
Sep 07 10:12:23 <parranda> tadzik: the problem is I need to use PAP, not MSCHAPv2
Sep 07 10:12:28 <tadzik> ah
Sep 07 10:13:55 <parranda> the wlantool application says that PAP is enabled, the network configuration tool lets me choose PAP... but it still doesn't seem to work :)
Sep 07 10:13:58 <parranda> (yay)
Sep 07 10:19:17 <DocScrutinizer05> Jaffa: surely not, it might finaly bring some life to my technical english
Sep 07 10:27:19 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to remove the tasknav animations?
Sep 07 10:27:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ???
Sep 07 10:28:18 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: open a window and close it in the tasknav
Sep 07 10:28:32 <kerio> you get a tiny animation before the tasknav closes due to lack of windows
Sep 07 10:28:35 <kerio> i want to remove that
Sep 07 10:28:36 <DocScrutinizer05> transitions.ini?
Sep 07 10:28:37 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer05: :)
Sep 07 10:29:03 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer05: I was listening to a programme on Radio 4 last night, where they were talking about how "Just a Minute" had really helped people's proper use of English grammar in India.
Sep 07 10:29:27 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: there's nothing related to that, i think
Sep 07 10:30:32 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: then you're back to the sourcecode
Sep 07 10:30:37 <kerio> D:
Sep 07 10:31:22 <kerio> meh, i'm restoring this
Sep 07 10:31:28 <kerio> ooh, maybe i have to reboot
Sep 07 10:31:43 <DocScrutinizer05> restart HD
Sep 07 10:31:49 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc
Sep 07 10:31:55 <kerio> i'm not that leete
Sep 07 10:33:40 <DocScrutinizer05> Jaffa: they tought indians not to use proper pidgin anymore? :-o
Sep 07 10:33:41 <parranda> ok, sorted out my PAP problem. It seems that PAP requires a network username (usually anonymous@somewhere) but it has to be entered in the Advanced options area as "manual user" or something like that (I'm running the Spanish locale)
Sep 07 10:34:16 <parranda> sorry for wasting your time. Have fun :)
Sep 07 10:35:28 <tadzik> we're on IRC. We're wasting time by definition
Sep 07 10:37:05 <DocScrutinizer05> Jaffa: you know the saying about pidgin: an Indian, a Chinese, a native speaker from America, a Brit, and a few ather Nations have a technical meeting. In the end all managed to transport their point, except the native speaker American who used "eloquent" american  words which nobody understood
Sep 07 10:37:32 <DocScrutinizer05> other*
Sep 07 10:39:02 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer05: :)
Sep 07 10:39:06 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: yay, i has no animations anymore :D
Sep 07 10:39:22 <kerio> ...and now it's kinda hard to figure out which window you came from if you have two similar ones
Sep 07 10:41:16 <zsolt> hi there.could somebody tell me which toolchain am I able to use to crosscompile for maemo?
Sep 07 10:41:25 <kerio> zsolt: scratchbox, usually
Sep 07 10:41:32 <zsolt> 2007 and 2009 toolchain is outdated
Sep 07 10:41:50 <zsolt> willing to use scratchbox2
Sep 07 10:42:11 <zsolt> what about arm-linux-gnueabi?
Sep 07 10:43:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I simply followed instructions on wiki
Sep 07 10:44:26 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik the SB version used for fremantle is kinda obsolete and kept in a semi-zombie state by Nokia just for the sake to not switch to newer version
Sep 07 10:46:16 <zsolt> well,is it possible to use gnu toolchain?if so,which one?arm-linux-gnueabi or arm-none-linux-gnueabi
Sep 07 10:46:19 <DocScrutinizer05> (tbh I followed an instruction on some opensuse wiki page about how to install fremantle SDK)
Sep 07 10:48:46 <DocScrutinizer05> zsolt: usually you mustn't change toolchain(-version) for a deployed project. Lately fremangordon and friends did a lot of work to get a newer better compiler ready for compiling anything at all for fremantle
Sep 07 10:50:25 <DocScrutinizer05> in general it's not guaranteed that binaries built on newer toolchain will play nice with libs and kernel built on old original toolchain
Sep 07 10:51:08 <DocScrutinizer05> though in theory it should work, you see a lot of "oops, we didn't anticipate that" in practice
Sep 07 10:51:23 <zsolt> but what happens if i use gnu toolchain?
Sep 07 10:52:47 <zsolt> i think that no all new functions are implemented in the older versions,that's why got everytime make errors
Sep 07 10:56:53 <zsolt> or could you give me link for the fremangordon toolchain?
Sep 07 10:57:58 <DocScrutinizer05> it's only a new compiler version
Sep 07 10:58:10 <DocScrutinizer05> won't probably help for make errors
Sep 07 11:01:10 <zsolt> anyway,which one is for maemo?arm-linux-gnueabi or arm-linux-noneabi?
Sep 07 11:06:01 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I can say that I never heard of arm-linux-noneabi
Sep 07 11:06:31 <DocScrutinizer05> while gnueabi been a frequently used word here
Sep 07 11:07:44 <DocScrutinizer05> (I hope I'm not mixing that with stuff from other related channels like #meego etc)
Sep 07 11:08:20 <zsolt> so,which one should i use for n900?
Sep 07 11:08:42 <DocScrutinizer05> *sigh* - of course the one I never heard from ;-P
Sep 07 11:09:00 <zsolt> arm-none-linux-gnueabi
Sep 07 11:09:18 <zsolt> i misstyped before
Sep 07 11:09:40 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, then I dunno
Sep 07 11:09:42 <fizzie> You could possibly ask "gcc -dumpmachine" about the proper triplet on the official scratchbox.
Sep 07 11:12:28 <zsolt> thank you
Sep 07 12:38:47 <kerio> aw, zsolt left
Sep 07 12:38:55 <kerio> anyway, gcc -dumpmachine gives me arm-linux-gnueabi on my n900
Sep 07 13:42:22 <MrPingu> Hi
Sep 07 13:49:35 <DocScrutinizer05> (it seems) recent marble update on cssu-t gave me broken app: route planner has black-on-black text, also several other screens/menus seem affected
Sep 07 13:51:01 <DocScrutinizer05> (you can highlight text by blindly touch&drag on locations where you suspect text might be)
Sep 07 13:51:32 <DocScrutinizer05> (or press hw-kbd ctrl-a)
Sep 07 13:52:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I seem to recall we had that friggin bug some 2 years ago. Thought it got squashed
Sep 07 13:52:42 <MrPingu> I vaguely remember that was an old busybox-power bug because of tmp not getting mounted and some grapchis couldn't be loaded
Sep 07 13:53:03 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, something about Qt iirc
Sep 07 13:53:20 <MrPingu> DocScrutinizer05: atleast we both remember that bug ;)
Sep 07 13:53:38 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, though my memory has nothing about busybox
Sep 07 13:54:47 <MrPingu> Brb, getting a jump on the next train
Sep 07 13:57:19 <DocScrutinizer05> curse this Friday. Marble fsckup. HPLIP rolled 3.12.9 which during update spins busy loop doing get_dents() across all my PATH entries and never terminates, but of course leaves printer support broken after killing the runaway process
Sep 07 13:57:32 <DocScrutinizer05> AFK for chilling :-/
Sep 07 14:17:11 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: some people don't respect read-only friday
Sep 07 14:47:23 <timeless> hey, anyone here familiar w/ Qt? :)
Sep 07 14:47:33 <jacekowski> a lot of people
Sep 07 14:47:43 <jacekowski> though #maemo-dev may be better channel
Sep 07 14:48:25 <timeless> i'm trying to figure out if there's any valid reason for someone to name a method "relase(...)"
Sep 07 14:48:34 <timeless> instead of the more logical "release(...)"
Sep 07 14:48:50 <timeless> a quick check of qobject shows that it didn't reserve "release(...)"
Sep 07 14:48:54 <tadzik> probably a tyop
Sep 07 14:48:59 <timeless> tadzik: that's my bet
Sep 07 14:49:09 <timeless> (i'm using a script that identifies such items)
Sep 07 14:58:20 <timeless> grr
Sep 07 14:58:23 * timeless hates github
Sep 07 14:58:29 <timeless> i think i submitted a pull request to myself
Sep 07 14:58:36 <timeless> anyone here happen to use github? :)
Sep 07 15:03:12 <tadzik> yes
Sep 07 15:03:59 <tadzik> what do you need?
Sep 07 15:04:21 <kerio> timeless: well you better accept the request :D
Sep 07 15:04:35 <timeless> kerio: i'd rather delete it, but i can't figure out how to do that
Sep 07 15:04:47 <timeless> i was able to close it, but it's still pretty embarrassing...
Sep 07 15:05:50 <tadzik> it isn't, who'd care ;)
Sep 07 15:16:52 * timeless chuckles
Sep 07 15:17:03 <timeless> the previous project i looked at was british (behaviour)
Sep 07 15:17:13 <timeless> this project is confused (behavior, Behavior, behaviour)
Sep 07 15:17:55 <timeless> 3 for british, 2 for each american (although that's a function name)
Sep 07 15:18:13 <timeless> (well, the uppercase is a function name)
Sep 07 15:18:14 <ShadowJK> Confuzzled behaviour, eh?
Sep 07 15:20:21 <timeless> ayup
Sep 07 15:21:08 <ShadowJK> I'm disappointed mixing zz and ou didn't cause any exploding people
Sep 07 15:23:18 <DocScrutinizer05> those won't aswer ;-)
Sep 07 15:23:30 <DocScrutinizer05> answer even
Sep 07 15:24:03 <timeless> oops
Sep 07 15:24:06 * timeless finds a bug in script
Sep 07 15:24:22 <timeless> language splitter does a fairly good job of splitting words
Sep 07 15:24:30 <timeless> but for some reason "BOOL)animated" isn't split into two words :(
Sep 07 15:24:40 <timeless> oh, no, that's more or less intentional
Sep 07 15:24:46 <timeless> for annoying things like (A)ccept
Sep 07 15:39:36 <timeless> yay!
Sep 07 15:58:28 <timeless> ok,
Sep 07 15:58:34 <timeless> what is an expecation?
Sep 07 15:58:52 <kerio> hahaha
Sep 07 15:59:13 <kerio> an exception, maybe?
Sep 07 15:59:15 <kerio> or an expectation?
Sep 07 15:59:19 <ShadowJK> exception, expectation, escapade?
Sep 07 16:00:56 <timeless> https://github.com/apache/incubator-cordova-ios/blob/master/bin/templates/project/www/spec/lib/jasmine-1.2.0/jasmine.js
Sep 07 16:01:06 <timeless> it appears at least 3 times in that file
Sep 07 16:01:17 <timeless> the repo seems to have another similar word somewhere else
Sep 07 16:01:40 <timeless> oh, right, some are plurals and some aren't
Sep 07 16:01:44 <timeless> so just that one file
Sep 07 16:02:02 <timeless> my initial guess was ShadowJK 's #2
Sep 07 16:02:07 <timeless> but i think kerio was right
Sep 07 16:07:23 <timeless> ooh!
Sep 07 16:07:25 <timeless> Gravitional
Sep 07 16:10:29 <ShadowJK> gravyred
Sep 07 16:18:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ~spell expecation
Sep 07 16:18:40 <infobot> possible spellings for expecation: expectation expurgation explication execution expiation expedition expiration exaction expecting
Sep 07 16:19:29 <DocScrutinizer05> timeless: the code of ibot's spell is public
Sep 07 16:19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> if that helps ;-)
Sep 07 16:19:56 <timeless> yeah yeah
Sep 07 16:20:03 <timeless> the thing is, i have ms word too
Sep 07 16:20:08 <timeless> but humans will give me a shorter list
Sep 07 16:20:18 <timeless> kerio: gave me exactly one answer (the right one)
Sep 07 16:20:31 <timeless> ShadowJK:  gave me 3, one was the wrong one i picked, one was right, and one was amusing
Sep 07 16:20:50 <timeless> infobot otoh, didn't have the right answer :)
Sep 07 16:20:54 <tadzik> yay, n900 fixing time
Sep 07 16:23:35 <ArGGu^^> hello, does anyone know if there is any guide to replace maemo with ubuntu on n900?
Sep 07 16:24:06 <tadzik> I saw one, didn't work for me :)
Sep 07 16:24:10 <tadzik> I think it's on the wiki somewhere
Sep 07 16:24:17 <tadzik> ubuntu wiki, actually
Sep 07 16:24:24 <ArGGu^^> tadzik replace? not dual boot?
Sep 07 16:24:32 <tadzik> oh, I don't know
Sep 07 16:24:37 <tadzik> I know about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/n900
Sep 07 16:24:39 <ArGGu^^> because I have only found tutorials for dual booting
Sep 07 16:24:55 <tadzik> ...why would you do that? :)
Sep 07 16:26:10 <ArGGu^^> tadzik I don't use it as phone anymore, I would like try to install ubuntu with lxde on it and have external monitor with tv-out and use touchscreen as mouse
Sep 07 16:26:28 <kerio> tvout?
Sep 07 16:26:31 <kerio> oh god
Sep 07 16:26:41 <ArGGu^^> kerio ?
Sep 07 16:26:57 <ArGGu^^> what problem with tv-out?
Sep 07 16:27:43 <kerio> it's a fuzzy 640x480 at best
Sep 07 16:27:53 <ArGGu^^> offcourse it has really low resolution, but I would connect into really small display so does not matter that much
Sep 07 16:28:04 <ArGGu^^> but of course bigger screen that n900 own
Sep 07 16:28:46 <ArGGu^^> well n900 does not have hdmi or vga output
Sep 07 16:28:59 <ArGGu^^> so there nothing else than tv-out
Sep 07 16:30:31 <DocScrutinizer05> usb vga adapter ;-P
Sep 07 16:30:47 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: does usb have enough bandwidth to push 1024x768?
Sep 07 16:30:56 <kerio> also WHY DIGITAL D:
Sep 07 16:30:58 <kerio> er
Sep 07 16:30:59 <kerio> WHY ANALOG
Sep 07 16:31:05 <DocScrutinizer05> depends on protocol you run there
Sep 07 16:31:15 <kerio> uncompressed?
Sep 07 16:31:35 <kerio> hm, 135MB/s
Sep 07 16:31:48 <kerio> it fits in usb 2.0, right?
Sep 07 16:32:37 <DocScrutinizer05> no way
Sep 07 16:32:51 <DocScrutinizer05> usb2.0 max 400 Mb
Sep 07 16:33:31 <ArGGu^^> but there is also that 7" monitor with rca input does not cost much
Sep 07 16:34:10 <DocScrutinizer05> but you don't want to push raw digitized video data thru USB. At 'worst' you do "raw mem writes" to the frame buffer in adapter
Sep 07 16:35:18 <kerio> it would still suck for big changes, right?
Sep 07 16:35:51 <kerio> the n900 needed an expresscard expansion port
Sep 07 16:35:52 <kerio> >:D
Sep 07 16:40:55 <timeless> tadzik: my n900's sim holder thingy has started being flaky
Sep 07 16:40:58 <timeless> what's wrong w/ yours?
Sep 07 16:41:05 <tadzik> timeless: flex cable
Sep 07 16:41:11 <timeless> ?
Sep 07 16:41:17 <tadzik> I just found screws for which I need a more precise screwdriver :F
Sep 07 16:41:35 <tadzik> timeless: http://i.imgur.com/8xw67.jpg
Sep 07 16:41:43 <tadzik> it looks as if someone bit it
Sep 07 16:41:45 <timeless> i have a towel holder in my bathroom for which i need a more precise screwdriver :(
Sep 07 16:42:06 <timeless> ouch
Sep 07 16:42:11 <kerio> timeless: what the fuck
Sep 07 16:42:15 <kerio> a *towel holder*?
Sep 07 16:42:31 <timeless> kerio: lemme see if i can find a picture of a similar item
Sep 07 16:42:39 <kerio> i know what it is
Sep 07 16:42:48 <kerio> i just can't figure out why you'd need a precision screwdriver
Sep 07 16:44:04 <timeless> it's a regular screw, but incredibly tiny, i think i need jeweler's regular screw driver for it
Sep 07 16:45:28 <kerio> wtf
Sep 07 16:45:31 <kerio> pics pls
Sep 07 16:45:34 <timeless> it's something like http://prod.towel-hooks.com/images/berenson/Large/BER2110US10B.jpg
Sep 07 16:45:55 <kerio> just hammer it in
Sep 07 16:46:00 <timeless> but the hook part basically has an incredibly stupid anchor point
Sep 07 16:46:50 <timeless> closer to http://bestbathroomtips.com/bathroom-towel-hooks-design-pictures/robe-hooks-pics/
Sep 07 16:47:01 <timeless> see the glint at the bottom of that one?
Sep 07 16:47:02 <tadzik> heh, I'll just get the piece alone and go to the store with it
Sep 07 16:47:15 <timeless> there's basically a screw there
Sep 07 16:47:30 <kerio> if it's that small of a screw, it's hammerable :)
Sep 07 16:47:40 <timeless> it hangs from a thing say 1/2 up from center
Sep 07 16:47:50 <timeless> and the screw catches it to prevent it from coming off the wall
Sep 07 16:47:52 <timeless> but...
Sep 07 16:48:08 <timeless> you have to really get the screw in, otherwise it can basically lift off from the top
Sep 07 16:48:16 <timeless> which is what happens if you pull on it/the towel on it
Sep 07 16:48:26 <timeless> resulting in potentially hurt feet/unhappy floor
Sep 07 16:51:38 * timeless sighs
Sep 07 16:51:47 <timeless> http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Install-Towel-Hooks-62644314 is totally unhelpful
Sep 07 16:52:02 <timeless> ok, i give up
Sep 07 16:52:09 * timeless goes back to people who can't spell
Sep 07 16:54:00 <ShadowJK> timeless; is "sim holder flaky" diagnosis based on crossed out sim icon in UI?
Sep 07 16:54:10 <timeless> more or less yes
Sep 07 16:54:29 <timeless> there's sometimes an info banner to go along w/ it
Sep 07 16:54:45 <timeless> sometimes it comes back on its own, sometimes i give up and pull the battery and jiggle it
Sep 07 16:54:54 <timeless> do you have a better diagnosis for me?
Sep 07 16:54:56 * timeless is all ears
Sep 07 16:55:21 <ShadowJK> timeless; well no, it's just not related to sim holder
Sep 07 16:55:40 <ShadowJK> It progresses to not working at all, not even for emergency calls sim-less.
Sep 07 16:56:03 <ShadowJK> Upper bound on N900 life, I think.
Sep 07 16:56:07 <timeless> "Son, your phone is dying"
Sep 07 16:56:18 <ShadowJK> I've had 2 N900 die that way.
Sep 07 16:56:42 <ShadowJK> Second degraded in 2 weeks, first took 2 months from first signs until unusability.
Sep 07 16:57:05 <timeless> fwiw, Conversations has some issues
Sep 07 16:57:15 <timeless> 1. i have 3 or so google talk accounts
Sep 07 16:57:22 <timeless> it claims that one of them is talking to a certain person
Sep 07 16:57:29 <timeless> when in fact, a different one is talking to that person
Sep 07 16:57:42 <ShadowJK> Both would reliably crash cellmodem (cat /proc/kmsg) when I pinched phone around ghjk on keyboard
Sep 07 16:57:48 <timeless> 2. it thinks that some sms's were never delivered, which means i'm stuck w/ a permanent stupid error message
Sep 07 16:58:59 <timeless> 3. conversations likes to experience temporary amnesia for interactions w/ that conact
Sep 07 16:59:02 <timeless> which is unfortunate, since that contact is ... "important"
Sep 07 16:59:18 <timeless> hrm, better make those quotes asterisks :)
Sep 07 17:00:55 <ShadowJK> It's fun when operators manage to pass smss in one direction, but ack in other direction doesn't arrive, and operator message centre retried regulary for 2 weeks
Sep 07 17:01:07 <ShadowJK> recipient gets a copy every half hour :)
Sep 07 17:02:22 <timeless> ouch
Sep 07 17:02:27 <timeless> yeah, i'm basically not getting acks
Sep 07 17:02:36 <timeless> i'm pretty sure they're partially arriving
Sep 07 17:02:47 <timeless> since the recipient isn't being flooded
Sep 07 17:03:03 <timeless> but i can't tell if the recipient got the message, so i manually flood
Sep 07 17:13:05 <timeless> anyone here familiar w/ .pbxproj ?
Sep 07 17:13:16 <timeless> nm
Sep 07 17:16:55 <ShadowJK> well there are two kinds of acks afaik, the ones operators use, and then the ones that get generated on delivery to recipient's handset
Sep 07 17:17:14 <ShadowJK> the second one disappearing doesn't cause retransmits
Sep 07 17:18:08 <ShadowJK> it's basically a plain sms that gets parsed by the phone and interpreted as delivery confirmation
Sep 07 17:18:28 <timeless> how would you spell Paul-Lee-Phil ?
Sep 07 17:18:44 <ShadowJK> uh?
Sep 07 17:18:48 <timeless> it's a js term
Sep 07 17:18:54 <timeless> but i don't want to bias you to a spelling
Sep 07 17:19:01 <timeless> so i intentionally didn't use many correct letters
Sep 07 17:19:40 <ShadowJK> I thought you were trying to spell a Chinese-Korean name
Sep 07 17:19:55 <timeless> ah, sorry
Sep 07 17:20:35 <ShadowJK> Paul Lee Phil? polepile? what D:
Sep 07 17:21:01 <timeless> ShadowJK: as a hint, `ph` is often written as `f`
Sep 07 17:21:16 <timeless> and some chinese write `lee` as `li`
Sep 07 17:21:27 <timeless> although it can also be written in other ways...
Sep 07 17:21:40 <ShadowJK> perl file?
Sep 07 17:21:47 <timeless> say the words faster together
Sep 07 17:21:53 <timeless> and keep in mind the context is javascript
Sep 07 17:22:07 <ShadowJK> polyfile?
Sep 07 17:22:49 <timeless> close but, Phil is a short "i" and File is a long "i"
Sep 07 17:24:04 <ShadowJK> did I mention I don't know js?
Sep 07 17:24:32 <timeless> that'd hurt here :(
Sep 07 17:24:40 <timeless> i'm not sure of the correct spelling fwiw
Sep 07 17:25:05 <ShadowJK> polyphilic?
Sep 07 17:25:13 <timeless> the concept is basically "taking an object and using rough polymorphism to add ["fill"] missing properties / methods"
Sep 07 17:25:24 <timeless> the problem is consider "full of success"
Sep 07 17:25:31 <timeless> is it "successfull" or "successful" ?
Sep 07 17:26:05 <ShadowJK> full of win
Sep 07 17:27:03 <timeless> https://github.com/jsoref/incubator-cordova-ios/blob/master/CordovaLib/Classes/CDVReachability.h#L4
Sep 07 17:27:13 <timeless> check out the word before APIs on that line :)
Sep 07 17:27:18 <ShadowJK> I think you should ask the ministry of english composition
Sep 07 17:27:22 <ShadowJK> he's german
Sep 07 17:27:27 <timeless> heh
Sep 07 17:27:49 <guly> could you please share the drugs you took?
Sep 07 17:28:23 <timeless> guly: who? which? why?
Sep 07 17:28:54 <guly> i'd like to try, seems impressive <g>
Sep 07 17:29:11 <ShadowJK> guly; i think you'll find you already did
Sep 07 17:29:58 <ShadowJK> that's how good they are
Sep 07 17:34:39 * timeless wtf
Sep 07 17:35:33 <timeless> check out the word before mediaId on https://github.com/jsoref/incubator-cordova-ios/blob/master/CordovaLib/Classes/CDVSound.m#L593 
Sep 07 17:35:44 <timeless> any idea what they are trying to do there? :)
Sep 07 17:39:11 <kerio> hungarian postfix notation
Sep 07 17:39:13 <kerio> it's a short status
Sep 07 17:39:33 <timeless> :)
Sep 07 18:38:48 <reenignEesreveR> i dont have .themes and .icons folder in my home directory ... which application creates these? 
Sep 07 18:39:11 <reenignEesreveR> actually i have an app (blessn900) which is silently failing ... i strace'd it to find out that it is looking for these files and then failing
Sep 07 18:47:28 <timeless> can someone who speaks git please hold my hand?
Sep 07 19:29:14 <kerio> how expensive is a wifi connection with powersaving and no data transfers?
Sep 07 19:32:19 <Sicelo> a bit expensive.. i would disconnect
Sep 07 19:39:41 <ShadowJK> If no datatransfer: hard to tell difference
Sep 07 19:40:13 <ShadowJK> But "no datatransfer" is a bit difficult, or not, depending on router.
Sep 07 19:41:00 <ShadowJK> My WRT54GL + Tomato is very agressive in what it decides to filter out for powersaving clients. All the windows chatter that flies across the LAN it leaves out, and sometimes it leaves out ARP too, which sometimes creates a bit of connectivity issues :-)
Sep 07 19:42:00 <ShadowJK> My old AP didn't filter anything, everything on LAN broadcast was passed on over wifi too, and when there was 3 windows machines active, the power consumption was significant enough to be noticeable.
Sep 07 19:46:04 <kerio> hm, 10mA
Sep 07 19:46:08 <kerio> that's not too bad, is it
Sep 07 19:46:11 <kerio> (idle everything)
Sep 07 19:46:40 <kerio> thankfully i only have a windows machine and it's not on at the moment :)
Sep 07 20:43:11 <ShadowJK> So that's double my "completely idle" test, in complete offline mode
Sep 07 20:43:16 <ShadowJK> not bad
Sep 07 20:46:01 <kerio> :D
Sep 07 20:54:47 <GGon> still moving all my stuff off google
Sep 07 20:54:58 <GGon> ugh what a pain. i never realized how many things are associated with my gmail acct
Sep 07 21:04:46 <tadzik> meh, I have a shiny, new flex cable, and no screwdriver to assemble it :|
Sep 07 21:18:26 <piggz> wow, square-it builds and runs on n900, first time!
Sep 07 21:18:36 <piggz> not without issue tho...it is rotated the wrong way
Sep 07 21:18:48 <piggz> hmm, how does n900 handle rotation
Sep 07 21:26:12 <piggz> oo, it works, just need to _not_ set it to portrait
Sep 08 00:25:14 <Skry> anyone related to kernel-power in here?
Sep 08 00:32:05 <Skry> or someone with some knowledge of smartreflex, iva and voltage domains :)
Sep 08 01:03:58 <SpeedEvil> I don't know much beyond it can be unstable on some devices
Sep 08 01:14:26 <Skry> my problems are not with kernel-power, but with a custom kernel. Enabling sr on iva causes panic.
Sep 08 01:15:13 <GGon> i think i'm going to film a movie with my N900 and say i did it with the Lumia 900 
Sep 08 01:29:32 <DocScrutinizer05> Skry: sorry, that's fuzzy. KP *is* a custom kernel. What do you mean?
Sep 08 01:29:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and what's "iva"
Sep 08 01:31:31 <SpeedEvil> smart reflex is unstable on some devices due to hw issues.
Sep 08 01:31:38 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Sep 08 01:31:41 <SpeedEvil> not really fixable
Sep 08 01:36:09 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: do you recall what's been the catch with Qt(-linedit(4.7.4)) and the "black-on-black text" issue?
Sep 08 01:36:21 <DocScrutinizer05> *very* old stuff
Sep 08 01:36:31 <LaoLang_cool> Hi, is there an app for sms counter? There is a smscounter already, but it counts sms via the sms database, so it's not useful if I have deleted sms, I want to monitor how many sms I have sent on n900 one month
Sep 08 01:36:46 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: nope
Sep 08 01:39:46 <jpinx> quick question - is there any way to improve the screen resolution when plugging a n900 into an external TV screen ?
Sep 08 01:40:15 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Sep 08 01:40:34 <jpinx> I guessed that :)  thanks DocScrutinizer05 
Sep 08 01:40:59 <DocScrutinizer05> at least that's what I guess
Sep 08 01:41:39 <jpinx> yea - it's not as though that output is going through a seperate video controller
Sep 08 01:41:52 <jpinx> but I thought I'd ask anyway ;)
Sep 08 01:41:55 <DocScrutinizer05> better than PAL won't be available unless you accept non-standard CVBS signals which in turn won't fly with any TV
Sep 08 01:42:40 <DocScrutinizer05> PAL == 512 lines
Sep 08 01:42:51 <jpinx> Ewww....  grainy
Sep 08 01:43:41 <jpinx> it's of marginal interest anyway cos you still haveto use the touchscreen controls to actually do anything
Sep 08 01:43:47 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc the N900 display has 800*480lines
Sep 08 01:44:20 <Skry> DocScrutinizer05: linux-omap 3.6-rc4. IVA == MPU or DSP if you like. Just wondering if SR has ever worked with dsp or if this is regression. Sorry for being fuzzy, it's 04:45 and I'm somewhat tired.
Sep 08 01:44:34 <jpinx> I have to wear my glasses to rad the n900 screen and I thought using the TV might alleviate that - but no...
Sep 08 01:46:12 <DocScrutinizer05> jpinx: AV output is of abysmal quality anyway. Anything better than PAL wouldn't pass the whole HW, even if possible
Sep 08 01:46:57 <jpinx> DocScrutinizer05: yea - I get it ;)
Sep 08 01:47:24 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean, it gets lost in cable
Sep 08 01:49:10 <DocScrutinizer05> though technically I assume PAL on N900 is 800*512 (on 100% zoom), it definitley isn't better than maybe 500*512, due to "low-pass filter" formed by cable, plugs, etc
Sep 08 01:50:24 <DocScrutinizer05> red areas even worse, they bleed out like mad, so I can't read red text of "standard size"
Sep 08 01:51:06 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g. in xchat's chan tabs
Sep 08 01:51:37 <DocScrutinizer05> no improvement in resolution can fix that
Sep 08 01:52:33 <jpinx> yea - too much loss in cabling etc
Sep 08 01:53:10 <DocScrutinizer05> Skry: DSP seems to be more prone to problems introduced by SR than CPU
Sep 08 01:53:58 <DocScrutinizer05> general advice: don't use SR, it's most likely not really worth it
Sep 08 01:55:27 <DocScrutinizer05> after all it's just a hw automatism to switch core voltages depending on clock freq, that gets emulated anyway on maemo kernel via software during cpu freq switching by freq-governor
Sep 08 01:55:32 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik
Sep 08 01:57:17 <DocScrutinizer05> so, aiui, SR may improve CPU performance slightly, by eliminating need in kernels sw to deal with core voltages 'manually', but it will *not* significantly reduce power consumption
Sep 08 02:00:03 <DocScrutinizer05> concurrent usage of 'automatic' mode of SR and 'manual' mode tuning the VDD-regulator settings might even create problems
Sep 08 02:00:46 <DocScrutinizer05> and I don't see anything is disabling 'manual' mode when you simply echo 1 >smartreflex
Sep 08 02:02:12 <DocScrutinizer05> SR patches to PK been again something done without knowledge of full picture, I'd guess
Sep 08 02:04:55 <DocScrutinizer05> first Nokia stock maemo5 kernels had SR sysnodes iirc. Just 'userland' never enabled it (echo 1 >/sys/*/*/sr). While Nokia decided to remove the sysnode in some later kernel, based on proper rationale I guess, others decided to pull it in again to PK and even suggest to enable it
Sep 08 02:06:32 <DocScrutinizer05> the rationale of the latter is questionable at least
Sep 08 02:11:00 <Skry> might be. I dont know, there is something weird happening with the whole PM subsystem, random lockups and panics.
Sep 08 02:12:03 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, there's some hw flaw of undisclosed thus unknown nature reportedly in SR, according to Nokia
Sep 08 02:12:55 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why they implemented it in sw, and consequently deprecated and removed sysnode for SR from stock kernel
Sep 08 02:14:06 <DocScrutinizer05> may I ask what's your hw revision?
Sep 08 02:15:49 <DocScrutinizer05> grep hw-build /proc/component_version
Sep 08 02:21:08 <Skry> 2101
Sep 08 02:22:08 <Skry> I actually dont have any problems with SR when using KP.
Sep 08 02:22:49 <Skry> I guess 3.6-rc4+ is too bleeding edge :)
Sep 08 02:27:33 <Skry> Anyways, that SR "problem" is not the only one, for some reason cpufreq does not go below 500MHz automatically or manually, even though the freqs are in OPP table.
Sep 08 02:32:11 <DocScrutinizer05> Skry: wait, you're running kernel 3.6-rc4? without maemo-patches?
Sep 08 02:32:31 <DocScrutinizer05> won't fly afaik
Sep 08 02:33:33 <Skry> Well, not using it with maemo, but yes.
Sep 08 02:33:37 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo kernel is pretty 'custom' even in stock version
Sep 08 02:35:32 <DocScrutinizer05> you might want to check what mer/nemo got for N900 kernel, they might have something semi-recent and working
Sep 08 02:37:53 <Skry> I've had no other problems than this so far. They dont have anything semi-recent afaik, there is abandoned 3.0 wip from meego but there is nothing usable in there.
Sep 08 02:38:22 <DocScrutinizer05> btw thanks for sharing that, it seems a pretty good indication that all SR messing around in/with PK is just cruft and blunder, since maemo-patches in kernel and cpu-governor still do the manual regulator control thing, and plain vanilla SR doesn't work at all
Sep 08 02:39:36 <Skry> Yeah, it seems that SR somewhat works with core (sometimes works, sometimes panics) and always panics with mpu
Sep 08 02:40:51 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Sep 08 02:41:13 <DocScrutinizer05> toldya DSP seems more prone to problems from SR than CPU
Sep 08 02:41:48 <Skry> so it seems.
Sep 08 02:41:50 <Skry> hmm
Sep 08 02:43:16 <Skry> vdd_mpu_iva: 600 <--> 1450 mV normal | voltdm_scale: No voltage scale API registered for vdd_mpu_iva | platform mpu.0: omap_target: unable to scale voltage down.
Sep 08 02:45:09 <DocScrutinizer05> "No voltage scale API registered for vdd_mpu_iva" makes sense, since afaik cpu core voltage is linked to DSP core voltage, they are one same thing
Sep 08 02:49:09 <Skry> i think so too. Could it be possible that something tries to adjust them separately and fails causing the lockups?
Sep 08 02:49:18 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Sep 08 02:50:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I only recently had a very short cursory read about internals of SR, in TRM of omap3430 and tps65950 aka twl4030 aka GAIA/pmu
Sep 08 02:51:16 <DocScrutinizer05> so I don't know if maybe SR even expects them to be separate and this might be the cause of Nokia's statement that "SR is broken in hw"
Sep 08 02:52:18 <Skry> It must be Nokia specific since that should be possible/work with 3430
Sep 08 02:53:05 <DocScrutinizer05> sure (unless it's a silicon erratum in early mask steps of either twl4030 or omap3430)
Sep 08 02:54:05 <DocScrutinizer05> but for sure it might also be Nokia's design not using the LDO-regulator for DSP like it's recommended by TI
Sep 08 02:54:28 <DocScrutinizer05> (if there's such a thing like a dedicated LDO for DSP)
Sep 08 02:55:05 <Skry> So, the whole issue might be somewhat bigger, what if there is some Nokia weirdness that prevents some combinations of ON/RET/OFF states, which would lead to panics when using 3430 C-states with rx-51 :S
Sep 08 02:55:49 <DocScrutinizer05> :shrug:
Sep 08 02:57:26 <DocScrutinizer05> unless you find out about which particular weirdness that might be (in schematics, or in Nokia's kernel patches), we'll never know, since @Nokia there's nobody left over who even *could* tell us
Sep 08 02:59:48 <DocScrutinizer05> we *could* check the assumption of dedicated DSP LDO existing in twl4030 but not used by Nokia in N900. We got the schematics and the TRM/UM/datasheets of twl4030/tps65950
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 08 02:59:58 2012