**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 11 02:59:58 2012 Sep 11 03:24:39 yes. it's frequently referred to as "test battery" or "service battery" Sep 11 07:58:31 Pali: why is temp table only 45 elements? Sep 11 08:00:01 Pali: in rx51_battery.c that is Sep 11 08:00:02 because temperature data was between -9°C and 44°C Sep 11 08:00:15 there is 55 values (not 45) Sep 11 08:01:04 for each temperature values there is min raw value in table Sep 11 08:01:55 ok, 55, not 45. the point is you should not return EINVAL for temperatures outside the range -9-45 Sep 11 08:02:09 and what? Sep 11 08:02:30 you either return min/max (i.e. -9/45) or do some approximation Sep 11 08:02:48 latter is better. do you have matlab? Sep 11 08:03:03 not now/here Sep 11 08:04:14 hmm, ok, do you have graph presenation of the table? I need it to decide on polinomial order that will be used for approximation for values outside the range Sep 11 08:04:41 the idea is - for the range -9 - 45 use the table Sep 11 08:04:50 otherwise use approximation Sep 11 08:06:28 Pali: http://www.mathworks.com/help/techdoc/ref/polyfit.html Sep 11 08:06:38 I think that was the correct one to use Sep 11 08:07:21 I draw plot with gnuplot and function raw->°K seems to be exp Sep 11 08:07:43 something like a*exp(-x*b)+c Sep 11 08:31:39 Pali: -0.00000003843332 0.00002923219357 -0.00840590603944 1.20658776300563 -39.86091438724600 Sep 11 08:31:47 4th order polinomial Sep 11 08:32:42 coefficients are too small Sep 11 08:33:03 don't we have FP? Sep 11 08:34:04 is precision is enought? Sep 11 08:34:35 lemme upload the graph Sep 11 08:35:42 http://i46.tinypic.com/2r26n2t.jpg Sep 11 08:36:33 yellow stars are table data Sep 11 08:36:42 purple is approximation Sep 11 08:37:43 Pali: ^^^ Sep 11 09:12:10 deepy: ohai Sep 11 09:12:27 heya Sep 11 09:12:41 guys, should deepy buy a N900? Sep 11 09:12:59 kerio: why not? Sep 11 09:13:05 perfect Sep 11 09:13:09 valid reasoning Sep 11 09:13:36 hehe. jokes aside, n900 is still ok, at least for my needs Sep 11 09:13:52 hah :( Sep 11 09:14:06 i'm in the situation where the n900 is not exactly ok, but everything else is much less ok Sep 11 09:14:24 kerio: elabrate please Sep 11 09:14:31 freemangordon: too little ram, too little cpu Sep 11 09:14:32 the usual Sep 11 09:14:45 well, you have -thumb on it. CPU is ok Sep 11 09:14:56 it's not the same thing! Sep 11 09:14:59 :c Sep 11 09:15:00 it is not slow at all Sep 11 09:15:06 cpu that is Sep 11 09:15:35 kerio: you'll feel the difference when most of the system is thumb. If not already feeling it Sep 11 09:16:23 (deepy: -thumb is the recompilation of most of the system in a different, smaller instruction set - Thumb2 instead of ARM - that frees a lot of space and ram) Sep 11 09:16:56 kerio: what exactly you need more RAM? FireFox? It behaves almost as bad on n950 Sep 11 09:17:07 *why Sep 11 09:17:12 freemangordon: just for general freshness, i suppose Sep 11 09:17:33 the UI could be more responsive, although that's probably not ram's fault Sep 11 09:17:44 the n900 is slower and less responsive than my 2x2.8GHz laptop with 4gb of ram, for instance Sep 11 09:17:55 kerio: ORLY? Sep 11 09:18:05 freemangordon: YARLY! Sep 11 09:18:29 strange, as i is sometimes faster than my 2.8GHz 1GB laptop Sep 11 09:19:05 single core P4 that is :P Sep 11 09:21:37 kerio: I usually have uptime of 2 weeks or so, it is fast all the time Sep 11 09:21:53 -thumb and swap on uSD of course Sep 11 09:21:57 so far my longest uptime has been like three days Sep 11 09:22:18 because i always find an excuse to reboot Sep 11 09:22:20 :D Sep 11 09:22:28 :D Sep 11 09:22:57 and i *used* to have a 4gb swap partition, but then image-viewer yelled at me Sep 11 09:23:21 hmm, 1G here, you don;t really need 4GB Sep 11 09:23:30 but i WANTED 4gb Sep 11 09:23:34 i can afford it Sep 11 09:23:37 i make it rain Sep 11 09:23:40 :D Sep 11 09:23:43 hehe Sep 11 09:23:48 is there any advantage for swap on uSD rather than on emmc? Sep 11 09:23:57 it makes all the difference Sep 11 09:23:58 tadzik: less congestion on the emmc Sep 11 09:24:03 it doesn't make a lot of difference Sep 11 09:24:09 kerio: it makes Sep 11 09:24:14 freemangordon: ;) Sep 11 09:24:25 stop trolling and read the appropriate threads on TMO Sep 11 09:26:25 tadzik: even if uSD is class 2 it makes n900 lot more faster. you should change other stuff (like swappiness and such) Sep 11 09:26:45 but there is swappolube for that purpose Sep 11 09:27:03 does zram give any benefits on n900? Sep 11 09:27:17 I have class 10 Sep 11 09:27:24 I'll look for the tmo thread Sep 11 09:27:29 tadzik: class doesn't matter for the purpose of swap Sep 11 09:27:41 the class gives you the minimal *sequential* write speed Sep 11 09:27:44 ah Sep 11 09:27:46 you need *random* reads and writes Sep 11 09:27:49 then it's worthless indeed Sep 11 09:28:09 well, no, it's still good to take pictures and record video :) Sep 11 09:28:20 :) Sep 11 09:29:58 Skry: unfortunately no Sep 11 09:30:08 tadzik: even more important is the sandiskness Sep 11 09:30:40 kerio: yeah, exactly Sep 11 09:30:46 freemangordon: yeah, thought so. Sep 11 09:31:14 tadzik: the more sandisk it is, the better Sep 11 09:31:28 heh, then I'm out of luck Sep 11 09:31:34 but even sandisk 4 is better than sandisk 10 Sep 11 09:32:02 *for the purpose of swap* Sep 11 09:32:04 though I use sandisk 16GB class 10 and it is ok Sep 11 09:32:11 kerio: yes Sep 11 09:34:43 for christmas, i want a microsd made of RAM Sep 11 09:39:30 I dream of such device for the last 3 years :D. a uSD device with first 1G made of ram and remaining 127G of flash :D Sep 11 09:41:03 i'd be happy with the first 1G Sep 11 09:41:42 unfortunately noone seems to produce such a beast Sep 11 09:41:53 * freemangordon goes afk Sep 11 09:43:01 * vi_ considers a 1GB RamSanDisk. Sep 11 10:08:49 I just had a weird pop-up on my n900: "You have exceeded the time limit and your reservation has been released. The purpose of this time limit is to ensure that registration is available to as many people as possible. We apologize for the inconvenience" Sep 11 10:08:57 wtf program is that from? Sep 11 10:09:18 oh Sep 11 10:09:30 apparently the browser can make system yellow popups like that Sep 11 10:09:33 from websites Sep 11 13:11:45 moo,lardman Sep 11 13:11:55 hey RST38h Sep 11 13:17:51 hmm, after having used a Windows mobile device and an Android device for a while and now coming back to my N950, I'm struck by just how nice the interface is (even if slightly half baked in places), and how poor the signal strength is Sep 11 13:21:37 and how sexually the aluminium case glides through your fingers. Sep 11 13:23:49 it's plastic isn't it? Sep 11 13:25:32 * lardman curses Fenix Sep 11 13:27:26 ooh look at me i'm so cool, i have a N950 Sep 11 13:27:36 I HATE YOU >:C Sep 11 13:27:43 oh Sep 11 13:28:23 sorry about that kerio, why the anger? Sep 11 13:28:58 BECAUSE WE WANT ONE TOO Sep 11 13:30:01 shouting won't help you, nor will abusing me, even if it makes you feel better Sep 11 13:30:34 how about asking how much yours costs? ;) Sep 11 13:30:39 lol Sep 11 13:30:57 I mean, you're obviously not using it <.< Sep 11 13:31:06 well I am now :p Sep 11 13:31:15 though without mail working, it's pretty painful Sep 11 13:32:07 no email? Sep 11 13:32:26 * kerio looks at modest Sep 11 13:32:28 i can deal with that Sep 11 13:32:36 nah, just keeps asking me to setup accounts, then I see the subject lines on the status bar as mail is delivered, just can't read it Sep 11 13:32:55 I'd even swap and have Modest back :) Sep 11 13:34:07 How functional is Nemo these days? Sep 11 13:34:27 not really Sep 11 13:34:36 it looks nice, but too many things just don't work yet Sep 11 13:34:52 even stuff like importing contacts from .vcfs, unless you import them one by one Sep 11 13:35:10 you can call and text with it though, and browse the web Sep 11 13:35:24 I could live with that, or write something to do it for me Sep 11 13:35:40 let's make something like iTunes so we can sync it with our proprietary desktop systems :) Sep 11 13:35:41 it's worth taking a look at, imho Sep 11 13:36:18 tadzik: cool thanks Sep 11 13:37:02 does the Nokia Phone program thing that sits on the desktop actually work like itunes? Sep 11 13:37:02 * lardman wonders if/when Jolla will see the light of day Sep 11 13:37:27 jon_y: the sync tool? Sep 11 13:37:43 the PC suite thing Sep 11 13:38:01 iirc it syncs contacts with e.g. Outlook, but didn't do much more than that Sep 11 13:38:11 ok Sep 11 13:38:20 nemo needs to work with that :) Sep 11 13:38:41 contact sync'ing is terrible, mine are knackered after going through Google + Hotmail and being merged all over the shop Sep 11 13:39:17 not the Nokia sync program, just the whole process in general, and the way things don't automerge Sep 11 13:39:37 lardman: oh, if you decide to hack on it, and if you're able to compile qmlcontacts, drop me a note ;) Sep 11 13:39:51 iirc there's an sqlite dump tool or something for the N900 Sep 11 13:39:59 to grab contacts Sep 11 13:40:03 tadzik: what's the problem with compiling it? Sep 11 13:40:11 maybe that was android Sep 11 13:40:21 jon_y: it will also allow you to sync over BT iirc Sep 11 13:40:29 lardman: probably a PEBKAC on my side, linking fails for me in the mer SDK Sep 11 13:40:34 which is how I moved my contacts from N900 to N950 originally Sep 11 13:40:52 ok, BT to transfer contacts Sep 11 13:41:17 tadzik: never did any userspace Mer work, was only ever kernel stuff trying to get powervr accel on the Galaxy tab, but will try to get back into it now my daughter is old enough that we can all get some sleep Sep 11 13:41:30 heh :) Sep 11 13:41:56 amazing how I used to love coding into the early hours, now I would like to be asleep by 9 ;) Sep 11 13:42:50 heh. I stopped staying up late when I started waking up to work at ~7 Sep 11 13:43:03 understandable Sep 11 13:43:25 For those with N9(50), is Nokia drive terrible? Sep 11 13:44:23 I used it yesterday and on a few occasions along my route it would suddenly create roads that looked somewhat like a major trainstation terminus (with suitable instructions to turn left/right every 10s), very odd Sep 11 13:44:25 you all need an annoying alarm clock to tell you to go to bed Sep 11 13:44:57 jon_y: I just fall asleep on the sofa, usually before my daughter does Sep 11 13:45:25 GPS? I've seen cheapo GPS asking the driver to hop off an overhead bridge into the highway beneath :) Sep 11 13:45:37 yeah, shortest way indeed Sep 11 13:46:00 this was just random roads suddenly appearing, driving along the side of a field, so not even in a town/city Sep 11 13:46:56 right, meeting to go to, catch you all soon Sep 11 13:59:03 You can buy my n950 for 1000 euros. Sep 11 14:04:42 lol Sep 11 14:15:14 people - i have nokia n900 and trying to connect my bluetooth headset - when i switch on bluetooth onboth and search for new device in my n900 it aint showing the headset Sep 11 14:15:35 but the same headset works with my samsung galaxy Sep 11 14:16:08 the headset is a samsung make - HM1200 which came with the galaxy mobile Sep 11 14:21:56 people - am i in the wrong room ? Sep 11 14:22:05 if yes please point me to the right direction Sep 11 14:22:25 solofight: you're in the right channel :) Sep 11 14:22:43 though irc is a slow medium, people sometimes answer days later Sep 11 14:23:32 anyway, do you still have the stock obexd? or did you play with the bluetooth stack? Sep 11 14:24:44 stock obexd ? Sep 11 14:24:47 merlin1991: ^ Sep 11 14:24:57 nokia provided :D Sep 11 14:25:29 solofight: are you sure you're following the pairing instructions for your headset? Sep 11 14:26:34 merlin1991: no - i bought n900 from n guy and the hm1200 headset from another Sep 11 14:26:52 kerio: switch on and search and connect ! isnt that it ! ? Sep 11 14:27:02 theres anything else involved generally ? Sep 11 14:27:18 tis is the one Sep 11 14:27:18 http://www.wirelessground.com/samsung-hm1200-bluetooth-headset.html Sep 11 14:29:09 when i click on new device - the circle spins on and on and on and on Sep 11 14:29:20 though i have the headset next to it Sep 11 14:30:13 solofight: there's usually a "hold a certain key while turning on" or something like that Sep 11 14:30:24 to avoid people randomly connecting to your headsets Sep 11 14:38:46 kerio: :) muaahh Sep 11 14:38:57 kerio: love you - thanks Sep 11 14:38:59 worked like a charm Sep 11 14:41:21 :P Sep 11 14:41:35 connected to the Samsung without using the button though? Sep 11 14:45:33 Sicelo: auto pairing on first power on? idk Sep 11 14:46:27 freemangordon: neither HAM nor apt will willingly downgrade packages, and moving from -thumb to +thumb is a downgrade, in dpkg's eyes Sep 11 14:47:01 there is really iptables disabled by default on n900? Sep 11 14:47:09 and dropping the -testing to only add -thumb still wouldn't solve the problem Sep 11 14:47:23 Pali: i thought it wasn't even installed Sep 11 14:47:34 also none config file for persistent configuration? Sep 11 14:48:06 kerio, so this should be fixed on my n900 :-) Sep 11 14:48:36 what is good solution for persistent iptables rules? (on maemo) Sep 11 14:48:50 debian has package iptables-persistent Sep 11 14:54:14 ok, ubuntu package iptables-persistent is simple, it has init.d script which call iptables-restore < /etc/iptables/rules.v4 (and also ip6tables) when file exists Sep 11 14:54:21 script is called on startup Sep 11 14:54:34 Sicelo: yeah thats what i was said Sep 11 14:55:04 going to repackage it and push to extras-devel Sep 11 14:57:30 Pali: neat Sep 11 14:57:36 Pali: what are you using iptables for? Sep 11 14:57:57 against brute force ssh attact Sep 11 15:01:00 how do i connect my n900 to my computer and send sms from PC ? Sep 11 15:02:58 Pali: we're lucky to have NAT, or unlucky :-/ Sep 11 15:02:59 :P Sep 11 15:05:49 how do you people send sms from PC by connecting you n900 to PC ? Sep 11 15:18:32 solofight: see wiki page phonecontrol Sep 11 15:19:21 DocScrutinizer05: thank you n it Sep 11 15:19:23 on it* Sep 11 15:19:32 solofight: or you go for vnc in any of it's flavours that works with slightly modified Hildon Sep 11 15:20:16 (I never did vnc this way round, so can't help much) Sep 11 15:35:46 DocScrutinizer05: which is the best free call blocking application for n900 ? Sep 11 15:35:57 i tried call blocker - it neva worked Sep 11 15:42:06 guys whats the best free call blocker application to use for n900 ? Sep 11 15:51:24 I once tried contact ringtones by barisione, dunno if it also does blocking, though I'd think it has everything in place already Sep 11 15:52:52 maybe if it doesn't yet block particular contacts' inbound calls, it could easily be augmented to do that Sep 11 15:53:41 probably a proper GUI integration would be the most trouble in augmenting it Sep 11 15:54:33 (unless you do some botch and define a specific virtual ringtone filename to mean "please reject that call") Sep 11 16:18:22 hey, any idea how to make the pictures/audio tracker not index what's on the uSD? Sep 11 16:19:55 tadzik: tracker-cfg Sep 11 16:19:59 DocScrutinizer05: oh Sep 11 16:22:25 peetah: trying it out, thanks Sep 11 16:22:45 check the NoWatchDirectory list Sep 11 16:26:26 peetah: could IndexMountedDirectories and/or IndexRemovableMedia just do the job? Sep 11 16:27:08 tadzik: i disabled both Sep 11 16:27:17 okayo Sep 11 16:27:51 tadzik: i guess so Sep 11 16:27:57 now, swap on uSD.. Sep 11 16:30:12 would'nt disabling IndexMountedDirectory remove indexation of MyDocs ? Sep 11 16:30:34 let's see Sep 11 16:31:16 I wonder how it defines "removable media" Sep 11 16:32:37 peetah: sure, but do you really want to index it? Sep 11 16:32:47 it'll always index the nokia directories Sep 11 16:32:52 (but not DCIM, so add that) Sep 11 16:33:06 what about Music and Videos ? Sep 11 16:33:09 well, I want it to index my music, I don't want it to index nemo mobile data ;) Sep 11 16:33:15 you mean .sounds and .videos Sep 11 16:33:18 yep Sep 11 16:33:20 those are indexed Sep 11 16:33:30 they're in the WatchDirectory list or something like that Sep 11 16:34:25 oh hm. Seems that nemo moved to some FS that maemo doesn't recognize Sep 11 16:35:08 is there a place somewhere explaining what are the priorities given to all these options ? Sep 11 16:35:30 I'm afraid to hear "in the source code" ;) Sep 11 16:37:10 aha, nemo's using ext4 now Sep 11 16:41:30 tadzik: afaik those options (as well as some aspects of NoWatchDir) are broken in stock trackerd. CSSU has a fix for trackerd (thanks javispedro) Sep 11 16:42:03 any opinions on swapset (the app)? Sep 11 16:42:17 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I'm on CSSU, testing I think Sep 11 16:42:24 good Sep 11 16:43:08 tadzik: KP should support ext4 Sep 11 16:43:37 heh, so I'd have to mangle with those tracker settings after I install it back Sep 11 16:44:16 tadzik: NOT for rootfs though (it's a loadable module for ext4 afaik) Sep 11 16:44:27 anyway, what are you guys using for swap on uSD business? Manual config mangling? Sep 11 16:44:38 never tried that Sep 11 16:44:51 I hate system crash on removing back cover Sep 11 16:45:23 I just have a startup.sh that I run manually on each boot (once every 2 months?) Sep 11 16:45:31 heh, understandable Sep 11 16:46:21 tadzik: /sbin/swapon /dev/mmcblk1p2 || /sbin/swapon /dev/mmcblk0p3 Sep 11 16:46:25 in /etc/event.d/rcS-late Sep 11 16:46:37 instead of /sbin/swapon -a || echo "Swap failure" or whatever Sep 11 16:46:58 kerio: how does it work out with the "removing back cover"issue? Sep 11 16:47:10 iirc n900 doesn't see the uSD if backcover's off Sep 11 16:47:16 tadzik: i have an otterbox Sep 11 16:47:19 =D Sep 11 16:47:25 otterbox? Sep 11 16:47:41 it crashes if swap is enabled on usd and backcover is removed Sep 11 16:47:51 tadzik: http://www.geardiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/geardiary-otterbox-nokia-n900-commuter-series-case-10-700x676.jpg Sep 11 16:47:55 the case around the n900 in this pic Sep 11 16:48:47 crashes as in "doing a kernel picnic"? Sep 11 16:48:56 tadzik: maybe! Sep 11 16:49:09 let's check Sep 11 16:49:14 i have a sheevaplug with swap on a usb drive, and disconnecting the drive causes awful stuff Sep 11 16:49:20 tadzik: make sure you have lots of stuff in swap Sep 11 16:49:33 ah, so it won't crash otherwise? Then it's not much of an issue Sep 11 16:49:38 it will Sep 11 16:49:52 you basically deleted a bunch of stuff in ram Sep 11 16:50:10 right Sep 11 16:50:23 so one should just swapoff before removing it Sep 11 16:50:50 yeah Sep 11 16:50:58 sounds easy to forget : Sep 11 16:51:00 :) Sep 11 16:51:11 how often do you people open the backcover anyway? Sep 11 16:51:21 seldom :) Sep 11 16:51:25 tadzik: it will PANIC Sep 11 16:52:11 I always assumed it was random processes crashing with Bus Fault, and watchdogs resetting device Sep 11 16:52:12 DocScrutinizer05: are you sure it's a proper panic and not just a bunch of atrocious errors when the kernel tries to recover the swapped pages? Sep 11 16:52:48 I guess [kswapd ] will trow error Sep 11 16:53:09 ->PANIC Sep 11 16:53:20 tadzik: have you checked? Sep 11 16:53:49 maybe even too heavy for proper PANIC ;-P Sep 11 16:54:50 simple test, kerio: open ssh over WLAN, do tail -f /var/log/syslog, then remove back cover Sep 11 16:54:53 kerio: not yet Sep 11 16:55:01 Actually once upon a time a server I managed had the harddrive ripped out by a dc technician for unexplainable reasons. alot of crap stopped working, but the main server process kept living because it was already memory resident, and didn't do much I/O Sep 11 16:55:40 uh wtf, swap on nemo seems to be 8 MBs? Sep 11 16:55:45 ShadowJK: probably kswapd will barf up next time it tries to access swap Sep 11 16:55:54 whenever that happens Sep 11 16:56:20 iirc anything needing a swapin just gets killed Sep 11 16:56:37 so phys ram gets freed up at an astonishingly fast rate :-) Sep 11 16:56:37 :shrug: Sep 11 16:56:38 DocScrutinizer05: i have an otterbox, i need a team of engineers to remove the backcovercover first Sep 11 16:57:11 * DocScrutinizer05 hands kerio a magnet Sep 11 16:58:10 does keyboard slide out with otterbox? Sep 11 16:58:17 ShadowJK: yup Sep 11 16:58:22 it's divided in two parts Sep 11 16:58:27 otherwise it would be kinda useless Sep 11 16:58:41 I have a similar thing, came with my N900 in the Nokia box Sep 11 16:58:47 it's pretty shitty though, too loose Sep 11 16:59:36 ShadowJK: maybe "55:23:99 kernel: [kswapd] OOOPS! IO error on swap! ... bla dump dump bla ... Sep 11 17:00:28 ShadowJK: it even has a tiny crevice on the part that ends up over the keyboard, so your fingers can fit better on the top row of the keys Sep 11 17:00:30 NB system "stays up" after OOPS Sep 11 17:00:50 DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to make it panic after OOPS? Sep 11 17:01:19 yes, afaik there's a kernel parameter you can set, like panic-on-oops or sth Sep 11 17:01:58 echo "30000 30001 30002 30003" > /proc/sys/vm/lowmem_allowed_uids wait, what Sep 11 17:02:11 # 30000 is messagebus, 30001 could be used by Matchbox Sep 11 17:02:23 my highest PID is 1757 Sep 11 17:02:25 could be? Sep 11 17:02:26 :s Sep 11 17:02:33 check friggin files in /etc! Sep 11 17:02:46 this is rcS-late Sep 11 17:02:58 kerio: it's UID, not PID Sep 11 17:03:01 oic Sep 11 17:03:23 30001 is haldaemon here Sep 11 17:03:30 and 30003 is sshd Sep 11 17:03:50 wow, that's actually pretty neat, sshd will work even in stupid memory conditions Sep 11 17:04:14 it won't get killed by OOM Sep 11 17:04:35 no, that's "never denied allocation in lowmem" Sep 11 17:04:41 doesn't mean it will work flawlessly Sep 11 17:04:44 (apart by lack of memory, i mean) Sep 11 17:05:47 what do you think does "deny allocation" mean? Sep 11 17:06:05 below a certain threshold of free ram, malloc() returns NULL? Sep 11 17:06:37 I'd guess it rather triggers OOM, since many apps don't behave on malloc() fail Sep 11 17:07:18 maybe not Sep 11 17:07:27 whatever, doesn't matter Sep 11 17:07:53 DocScrutinizer05: no real need to OOM kill those, they'll just blow up with a sigsegv :) Sep 11 17:08:31 also OOM kicks in way earler than malloc() fail, since OOM tries to keep important stuff alive, while malloc() fails for everybody once there's not enough memory left Sep 11 17:09:24 no, many progs are poorly written and will spin in an endless loop trying to allocate enough mem Sep 11 17:09:59 ...wat Sep 11 17:13:05 typical case: install global error handler to catch all errors. In that error handler a) forget to disable error-handler, and b) instantiate an object Sep 11 17:13:33 kerio: just checked. It does a Surprise REboot Sep 11 17:13:41 (or b) do any other malloc() ) Sep 11 17:13:42 tadzik: immediately? Sep 11 17:13:50 kerio: when I launched Opera. It may have not noticed before Sep 11 17:13:57 there were like 2 MBs taken of 1024 Sep 11 17:14:20 tadzik: well, now you know what happens if you remove a stick of ram from a live computer Sep 11 17:14:22 :) Sep 11 17:14:24 yeah :) Sep 11 17:14:55 tadzik: what's bootreason now? Sep 11 17:15:09 cat /proc/bootreason Sep 11 17:15:25 hmmpf Sep 11 17:15:45 what might it be? really I can't guess ;-P Sep 11 17:15:48 kerio: rw_rst Sep 11 17:15:52 erm, sw Sep 11 17:15:56 OOOH *surprise*! Sep 11 17:16:00 sounds like "software reset" Sep 11 17:16:07 or Supwise Reset Sep 11 17:16:31 now what do we know? Sep 11 17:16:54 computers don't like having ram taken away Sep 11 17:17:03 it's neither been hw_watchdog nor powerbutton that caused boot Sep 11 17:17:12 hw_watchdog is dsme? Sep 11 17:17:18 no Sep 11 17:17:23 dsme is sw_rst Sep 11 17:17:35 yeah but "reboot" is also sw_rst Sep 11 17:17:47 exactly ;-P Sep 11 17:17:54 what about kernel panic? Sep 11 17:17:58 sw_rst Sep 11 17:18:24 ok, so we know nothing Sep 11 17:18:26 ;-P Sep 11 17:19:36 try sp-oops-extract /dev/mtd2 Sep 11 17:21:45 anybody know if Volkswagen used meego for their back-seat-entertainment systems? Sep 11 17:22:22 DocScrutinizer05: i don't have sp-oops-extract Sep 11 17:22:28 which package is it in? Sep 11 17:22:30 hmmpf Sep 11 17:22:43 apt-cache search sp-oops-extract Sep 11 17:22:45 oh, it's apparently sp-oops-extract Sep 11 17:22:50 how convenient Sep 11 17:23:59 DocScrutinizer05: i can't authenticate packages from the tools repo, is it a known problem? Sep 11 17:24:10 dunno Sep 11 17:24:37 If I been able to conveniently ignore the warning, then maybe it's "known" Sep 11 17:25:11 is there any particular reason why http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 stuff is not in repos? Sep 11 17:26:12 tadzik: ask Pali Sep 11 17:26:45 Pali: question: is there any particular reason why http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 packages are not in the repos? Sep 11 17:26:51 yes 2 problems Sep 11 17:27:34 1) more apps depends on kernel-feature-something and these "provides" are only provided by kernel-*-flasher packages Sep 11 17:27:47 u-boot replacing existing kernel Sep 11 17:28:01 2) needs proper packaging Sep 11 17:28:31 problem 2) should be fixed (it conflicts all old u-boot packages) Sep 11 17:28:53 and problem 1): I have not tested patch which ask user if really want to flash kernel... Sep 11 17:29:05 when I finish 1) I will push u-boot to extras-devel Sep 11 17:29:23 tadzik, but now I do not have time for u-boot... Sep 11 17:29:30 okay, understood Sep 11 17:30:05 Pali: let me know if that patch actually works both in apt-get and HAM, I'd love to fix this problem on tsome other pkgs Sep 11 17:30:28 Doc, it patching fiasco-image-update Sep 11 17:30:37 it is shell script Sep 11 17:30:43 but I did not tested it yet... Sep 11 17:30:48 >>patch which ask user if really want to flash kernel... Sep 11 17:31:22 yes, because -flasher packages using that fiasco- script for flashing... Sep 11 17:32:01 either it rises a hildon-Requester which goes unnoticed on remote ssh, or it tries to read from stdin which doesn't work in HAM obviously Sep 11 17:32:39 files: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/fiasco-image-update.patch http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/zimage-get-version.c Sep 11 17:33:16 one of the main reasons why some packages are supposed to get installed by HAM only, while some others will fail terribly when not installed via apt-get (none of latter class known yet) Sep 11 17:36:40 NB the problem could get fixed easily, if we could find out whether we are in interactive shell or not Sep 11 17:37:21 the problem could get fixed easily if HAM supported debconf Sep 11 17:37:31 or climb up the parent tree and check for any of "HAM" | "apt-get" Sep 11 17:39:53 kerio: while I got no friggin clue what's debconf, I doubt HAM is supposed to support it. If it actually should and that would help for this (and other) problem(s), you're free to open a ticket or even provide a patch Sep 11 17:41:19 DocScrutinizer05: it's the debian way of asking stuff to the user while installing Sep 11 17:41:29 you can use different frontends Sep 11 17:42:13 no, debconf IS a frontend Sep 11 17:43:20 "debconf is a backend database, with a frontend that talks to it and presents an interface to the user" Sep 11 17:43:47 debconf runs any *special* program that talks debconf-protocol via stdin/stdout Sep 11 17:44:03 those are the frontends! Sep 11 17:44:11 man 1 debconf Sep 11 17:44:22 bs, those are called backend Sep 11 17:44:33 frontend is the "GUI" Sep 11 17:45:23 anyway, nobody uses the debconf binary, it's mostly ran by dpkg/apt/whatever Sep 11 17:46:27 it's neat because the same package can get a text-mode configuration interface while installing from apt-get, and a GUI when installing from, say, synaptic Sep 11 17:48:56 and how TF is debconf supposed to know the difference? when called by apt-get or synaptic? Sep 11 17:49:49 unless told about the fact by either of both explicitly Sep 11 17:50:59 we wouldn't need any debconf to tell our pre-install script via $env to either use a requester or stdin/readline to query user's choice Sep 11 17:51:58 we just could try to find an $env that is unique to interactive shell Sep 11 17:52:30 or check if stdin and stdout are like they should on interactive shell Sep 11 17:53:28 DocScrutinizer05: apt-get already tells debconf :) Sep 11 17:53:31 or, alternatively, find any $env that's unique to HAM's child processes Sep 11 17:54:10 kerio: don't create noise, suggest a patch! Sep 11 17:55:43 evidently on fremantle apt-get doesn't tell debconf since we don't have debconf Sep 11 17:56:28 and I still fail to see how debconf would open a proper hildon requester when run under HAM Sep 11 17:57:55 DocScrutinizer05: well, HAM would tell debconf to use a graphical frontend Sep 11 17:59:21 and how's that compatible with our current pre-install scripts and why we need that at all, instead of implementing it into HAM instead of an interface to debconf? Sep 11 17:59:44 it's compatible with our current pre-install scripts because those will just keep working as they do now Sep 11 17:59:55 and we should do that because debconf is The One True Way to do stuff like this Sep 11 18:00:18 go ahead, damn! provide a patch! Sep 11 18:00:58 don't forget to evaluate size increase of binary vs benefit it brings Sep 11 18:00:59 lo * Sep 11 18:06:00 kerio: btw all our pre-install scripts that request user interaction do that via hildon requester already. I don't see how implementing some debconf monster into HAM will "fix" that or just guarantee compatibility. It's apt-get from terminal/shell that needs a fix for the requester showing up on device screen and not via stdout/stdin. Can debconf do this? how? (no, it can't since it got no clue about how our pre-inst scripts call that Sep 11 18:06:02 requester) Sep 11 18:06:57 hm, how is the requester called? Sep 11 18:07:20 hmm, why do you ask that just now, instead of before you start spamming? Sep 11 18:10:19 oh, just maemo-confirm-text? Sep 11 18:31:21 freemangordon: *poke* Sep 11 18:51:00 [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest Sep 11 18:53:32 what is -T? Sep 11 18:53:36 -testing Sep 11 18:53:45 and why is it making us jump through loops?=) Sep 11 18:59:02 RST38h: because HAM is silly and there's been a mistake in the packaging of a package Sep 11 19:01:17 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Sep 11 19:01:23 yaaaaaay Sep 11 19:01:26 ~botsnack Sep 11 19:01:28 :), kerio Sep 11 19:01:34 (:, infobot Sep 11 19:11:41 how do carriers detect tethering which isn't allowed in your plan, and how easy is it for them to do this on my N900? Sep 11 19:13:34 ajf_: it's kind of impossible to do on the N900, unless they do DPI Sep 11 19:13:41 and even then... Sep 11 19:14:22 or check the User-Agent header perhaps, since HTTP does go through some transparent proxy Sep 11 19:14:49 but I read iDevices phones either report it to the carrier, or they use an alternative APN Sep 11 19:14:57 so the N900 won't do anything like that? Sep 11 19:20:28 ajf_: probably not Sep 11 19:34:50 Although when you tether through bluetooth dun or through usb cable, the pc itself establishes a new connection through N900. The computwer decides the apn, and if N900 is already connected to mobile internet, a second connection would be noticed, of course :) Sep 11 19:35:49 Through wifi mobile hotspot thingy, N900 shares its own connection Sep 11 19:37:57 if you only do proper forwarding and no "tether" bullshit (which is something that i only began to hear once the iphone was out, because apparently mobile phones in the US are stupidly locked down) then there's really nothing the carrier can say in response to "well, i have a n900" Sep 11 19:40:31 Sometimes you can see shit fly across the network that could only originat from a windows pc :) Sep 11 19:41:25 [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest Sep 11 19:43:21 oh, I forgot it shows up as a USB modem so you choose the APN in NetworkManager Sep 11 19:45:06 ShadowJK: qemu Sep 11 19:47:33 DocScrutinizer05; is there no way to make ham do that itself Sep 11 19:48:29 ask merlin1991, it seems the way it's packaged now there's none except postponing cssu-t update rollout (something we should've considered) Sep 11 19:48:46 but as usual merlin1991 was trigger-happy Sep 11 19:49:25 How about adding it in the description then, iirc you can have a "news" thinygy that shows what's new Sep 11 19:49:38 ShadowJK: yeah that would have been a good idea Sep 11 19:49:45 in ham Sep 11 19:49:53 yep, nice idea, but I am afraid you have to convince merlin1991 about that Sep 11 19:50:43 And then in next updates also make it fix stuff for people that did update all Sep 11 19:50:48 we even could've implemented a simple abort condition in cssu-t pre-install Sep 11 19:51:51 if only merlin1991 would've allowed testing of release prior to public rollout Sep 11 19:52:23 * DocScrutinizer05 now prepares for a nightshift Sep 11 19:54:12 I'd think that priority would be: temporarily disable/remove this, fix it so that it doesn't mess up, put it back, add scripts or whatever is needed to repair situation for people who already upgraded, push out thst? Sep 11 19:54:46 luckily recovery is rather simple: quit ham, wait 5 min, start ham, wait, do update opername, quit ham, wait 5 min, start ham, wait, do cssu-t update Sep 11 19:55:42 ShadowJK: but basically I of course agree with you Sep 11 19:56:33 seems general notion is cssu-t users have to cope with minor nuissance like that Sep 11 19:57:04 Oh so it eventually fixes itself with a user pressing update whenever the ! update icon starts flashing? Sep 11 19:57:19 probably Sep 11 19:57:25 and what is it recovering from? Does operator name just vanish while things are "broken"? Sep 11 19:57:54 there's some conflict that doesn't allow cssu-t to install Sep 11 19:58:06 aiui Sep 11 19:58:50 Well yes, as "testing" implies.. But likewise automatic fixes and automatic recoveries of mistakes could be part of it ;) Sep 11 19:59:23 yep, sure. Just merlin1991 is already busy with other 'more imprtant' stuff (uBoot) Sep 11 20:00:27 while I'm trying to clean up the mess... :-S Sep 11 20:00:52 ShadowJK: the operator-name package name changes, but in order to update cleanly you need a package of operator name with a version higher than 3.0 Sep 11 20:01:02 which the dummy update provides Sep 11 20:01:29 ShadowJK: the "automated" way would have been to depend on the dummy package aswell, but then the mp would break if someone "as they ususally should" attempts to remove the dummy Sep 11 20:01:56 I had the choice between a 2 step upgrade or a useless pkg on the device Sep 11 20:02:38 or an assert in pre-install "INSTALL OPERNAME FIRST, DUMBASS! RTFM!" Sep 11 20:03:04 Couldn't a future upgrade have removed the useless pkg? Sep 11 20:03:18 prolly Sep 11 20:04:22 [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff Sep 11 20:04:29 Dunno, "rtfm" sounds kinda silly when the manual isn't bundled with the update Sep 11 20:04:38 user gets flashing icon Sep 11 20:04:49 DocScrutinizer05: is it an automated message? Sep 11 20:05:09 sure, self augmenting msg Sep 11 20:05:23 no, i'm just bored Sep 11 20:06:51 ShadowJK: was a cooking receipe only Sep 11 20:07:27 I'd never use words like DUMBASS either on such a notice ;-P Sep 11 20:08:39 actually if I wasn't concerned about cssu QA and thus read #maemo-ssu, I'd be one of those dumbass users myself Sep 11 20:10:36 [2012-09-11 14:54:37] merlin1991: unfortunate you didn't allow prior testing of testing Sep 11 20:10:37 [2012-09-11 14:55:02] merlin1991: I gather copying of repo wasn't that simple Sep 11 20:11:07 what's with dummy pkg anyhow Sep 11 20:11:24 ShadowJK: a wrong initial packaging of connui-home-cellular Sep 11 20:11:26 don't ask me Sep 11 20:21:16 NIN101: ping Sep 11 20:22:30 merlin1991: pong Sep 11 20:23:26 NIN101: I'm attemting to use your rescue OS for something, but I'm failing at the step where I ssh / telnet in from my pc, I ran the usbnetworkign enabler script, but when I use telnet to 192.168.2.15 nothing happens Sep 11 20:23:29 so it can't be fixed in steps? Sep 11 20:23:43 merlin1991: run telnetd Sep 11 20:23:55 just by typing "telnetd" Sep 11 20:24:58 what's the login? Sep 11 20:25:08 root:rootme Sep 11 20:27:36 NIN101: any way to transfer a file back over the networking? Sep 11 20:28:27 merlin1991: is there uuencode/uudecode? Sep 11 20:28:38 "tcpsvd -v 0.0.0.0 21 ftpd -w" enables anonymous down- and uploads everywhere. Sep 11 20:28:48 or use netcat or so... Sep 12 00:12:33 damn Sep 12 00:12:46 what was the common way to mount a directory into another one as though it were mounted locally? Sep 12 00:12:51 can't remember Sep 12 00:13:21 oh Sep 12 00:13:21 bind Sep 12 00:13:22 duh Sep 12 00:15:35 Hi. I won a N810 this weekend, and a another tablet (BlackBerry PlayBook). I tried to share files by Bluetooth to the BlackBerry, without success (because PlayBook doesn't support FTP protocol over Bluetooth). I tried then, to share files over network (SAMBA, NetBIOS). I found "samba" at Maemo repositories, and tried to install, I got it. As I didn't found a applet to control what folders I want to share, I tried to install "smbfs", but it requires "samb Sep 12 00:42:08 [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff Sep 12 00:44:13 diegojsRW: your post got trunkated Sep 12 00:44:20 also Sep 12 00:44:22 ~ask Sep 12 00:44:23 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Sep 12 00:44:53 Hi. I won a N810 this weekend, and a another tablet (BlackBerry PlayBook). I tried to share files by Bluetooth to the BlackBerry, without success (because PlayBook doesn't support FTP protocol over Bluetooth). I tried then, to share files over network (SAMBA, NetBIOS). Sep 12 00:44:54 I found "samba" at Maemo repositories, and tried to install, I got it. As I didn't found a applet to control what folders I want to share, I tried to install "smbfs", but it requires "samba-common 3.0.22-3maemo2". However, I didn't found it at repositories. I googled for "samba-common", but I don't find it to download. Where I find "samba-common" to download? If it was discontinued, how can I share files over SAMBA protocol? Sep 12 00:45:59 try http://maemo.org/packages/ Sep 12 00:47:20 hmm, I'm not sure it will search diablo repository Sep 12 00:48:26 DocScrutinizer05: I found samba-common 3.0.23c-1osso11, and samba-common 3.4.3-maemo2, but smbfs requires "samba-common 3.0.22-3maemo2". It will recognize and will run with another version? Sep 12 00:48:54 I see it actually searches diablo as well, see http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemo-pc-connectivity/ Sep 12 00:48:58 for example Sep 12 00:50:39 I don't think it will work with a version such different. It even sounds like it's for another platform Sep 12 00:53:19 seems maemo2 are for fremantle, while osso11 are for diablo Sep 12 00:53:43 http://maemo.org/packages/view/samba-common/ Sep 12 00:54:10 though: http://maemo.org/packages/view/samba/ Sep 12 00:54:26 here maemo2 is diablo :-o Sep 12 00:54:29 Samba I already installed by the repository Sep 12 00:55:01 And It is working, apparently (I found "admin" and "IPC" folders) Sep 12 00:55:17 But I want to choose what folders I want to share Sep 12 00:55:36 sorry, no clue Sep 12 00:56:32 I have this version: samba 3.0.22-6 (Diablo Extras-devel free armel) Sep 12 01:08:11 diegojsRW: you should have a config for samba in /etc/samba/smb.conf Sep 12 01:08:18 where you can set what samba shares Sep 12 01:10:09 merlin1991: thanks. I was too busy to look this up Sep 12 01:12:02 merlin1991: I don't need of samba-commons installed? Sep 12 01:13:45 diegojsRW: if you installed samba from the repository you should also have samba-common on your device Sep 12 01:14:03 just edit the file in /etc/samba/smb.conf it's pretty straight forward Sep 12 01:14:05 No, i haven't Sep 12 01:14:15 I only have the "samba" Sep 12 01:14:22 what does dpkg -l samba-common tell you? Sep 12 01:16:05 Package installation, I suppose Sep 12 01:18:20 Nokia-N810-43-7:~# dpkg -l samba-common Sep 12 01:18:21 Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold Sep 12 01:18:21 | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed Sep 12 01:18:21 |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) Sep 12 01:18:21 ||/ Name Version Description Sep 12 01:18:21 +++-==============-==============-============================================ Sep 12 01:18:22 ii samba-common 3.0.23c-1osso1 Samba common files used by both the server a Sep 12 01:18:47 It doesn't appears on Application list of N810 Sep 12 01:18:54 so you do have samba-common installed to be exact you have version 3.0.23c-1osso1 Sep 12 01:19:23 that's probably due to the fact that it isn't an "aplication" but rather a set of helper files for samba Sep 12 01:19:45 also next time you need to paste more than lets say 2 lines of text please use a pastebin service, ie debian.paste.net Sep 12 01:20:15 Ok, sorry by flooding Sep 12 01:20:40 s/debian.paste/paste.debian/ Sep 12 01:20:40 merlin1991 meant: also next time you need to paste more than lets say 2 lines of text please use a pastebin service, ie paste.debian.net Sep 12 01:20:43 typos :S Sep 12 01:20:48 Then I have to install a smb-client which depends of 3.0.23c-1osso1, right? Sep 12 01:21:20 why do you need an smb client anyway? smb client allows to to access shares from other pcs on your n810 Sep 12 01:21:38 Yes, I need it also. Sep 12 01:21:41 the normal samba package is the one that makes it possible to share files from the n810 to other pcs Sep 12 01:22:07 I need to install either smbfs and smb-client Sep 12 01:22:17 And swat (samba web wizard) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 12 02:59:58 2012