**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 28 02:59:56 2012 Sep 28 04:52:15 http://xwetx.com//videos/3/sara-jean-underwood-playboy%27s-yoga-full-video Sep 28 05:48:46 DocScrutinizer05: btw, your approach kinda sucks Sep 28 05:48:59 gainroot is supposed to be called passwordlessly Sep 28 05:49:06 because it checks rd-mode Sep 28 05:49:13 bs Sep 28 05:49:26 rootsh changes that Sep 28 05:50:51 sudo checks R&D mode, not gainroot Sep 28 05:51:23 err, scratch that Sep 28 05:51:38 anyway, how's that relevant? Sep 28 05:54:11 if anything sucks, then it's your pointless criticism Sep 28 05:54:27 DocScrutinizer05: how did rx_battery go? sorry I felt asleep yesterday. Sep 28 05:54:46 rx_battery? Sep 28 05:54:56 the temperature thingie Sep 28 05:55:12 pali's new LUT code? Sep 28 05:55:19 yep Sep 28 05:56:05 seems it's mostly ok, we weeded out some dead cruft code, the rest schould be fine Sep 28 05:57:02 I'm still wondering if that thing indeed has to deliver centigrade (1/100 °C) Sep 28 05:57:14 hmm, i looked at the code, seems ok to me (from the LUT size POV) Sep 28 05:57:17 usually you use milli-UNIT Sep 28 05:57:54 or micro-UNIT (uA) Sep 28 05:58:00 (mV) Sep 28 05:58:46 well, AFAIK minor unit for deg celsius is 0.01 Sep 28 05:58:54 AFAIK Sep 28 05:59:00 DocScrutinizer05: a better way to allow passworded root access would be to add user ALL = (ALL) ALL Sep 28 06:00:16 kerio: read backscroll and stop pestering me! I'm afk now anyway Sep 28 06:00:27 pointless criticism Sep 28 06:45:33 Sep 28 10:36:01 With Tizen and Jolla/Mer being RPM based - what (still developed) mobile OS's exist out there other than Maemo that uses debian package management? Sep 28 10:40:57 Lantizia: http://qtmoko.sourceforge.net/ Sep 28 10:41:23 they are based on Debian & use debian packages Sep 28 10:41:53 hmm but the device they develop for is dead Sep 28 10:42:08 lol Sep 28 10:43:02 see my N900 is getting on a bit... I've been thinking of getting an Atom/Medfield based Android phone Sep 28 10:43:28 at least then if Ubuntu/Fedora/whomever come out with some kind of mobile-ui-centric interface i can put any old x86 OS on it Sep 28 10:43:41 (possibly in the future) Sep 28 10:44:24 they also support the GTA04 Sep 28 10:44:45 which is also open hardware & has specs similar to the N900 :) Sep 28 10:45:10 o rly? Sep 28 10:45:13 keyboard? Sep 28 10:45:17 but yeah, its quite a niche device & horrendously expensive :) Sep 28 10:45:28 not by default Sep 28 10:45:45 but you can probably easily slap one on it Sep 28 10:45:58 you can even order just the board :D Sep 28 10:46:19 no kb = crap Sep 28 10:46:26 i agree Sep 28 10:46:41 GTA04 site false advertises :< Sep 28 10:46:52 "No locks by undocumented hardware." "3D Graphics Accelerator and DSP" Sep 28 10:48:31 * SpeedEvil stabs Luke-Jr with a sharpened lettuce. Sep 28 10:50:32 * Luke-Jr stabs SpeedEvil back with a sharpened cabbage Sep 28 10:51:01 MerMeeMaemoGoTizen!? Sep 28 10:51:25 limo Sep 28 11:00:51 whoa, people are buying the GTA04? Sep 28 11:01:02 that's a mighty price to pay for freedom. Sep 28 11:04:07 and modem firmware is closed anyways Sep 28 11:04:26 and it's 2g only iirc Sep 28 11:04:42 claims it's UMTS Sep 28 11:06:08 it doesn't seem -that- sucky Sep 28 11:06:15 but I'll probably wait for what Jolla has :) Sep 28 11:07:09 oh, I misread the price, it seems it's a 'choose the parts for your kit first' Sep 28 11:16:24 flux, iirc it's GBP 666 for the board Sep 28 11:16:38 oh it was GBP :) Sep 28 11:16:51 nope, it's EUR 666 Sep 28 11:16:51 meh, I'd rather spend the cash on a USB-reinforced N900. Sep 28 11:17:02 actually, make that a few N900s. Sep 28 11:17:21 +70 EUR for LCD, +20 for battery, +XX for case unless you make one yourself Sep 28 11:17:34 hurrian, I guess you can do that now on ebay :) Sep 28 11:18:24 I mean, tbh, we have ofono running on our devices, a hardware keyboard, and a decent (ex) officially supported OS Sep 28 11:20:22 flux: if Jolla's got an open bootloader and GNU/Linux at a reasonable price, I'm set. Sep 28 11:22:21 hurrian, what would be reasonable price for you? Sep 28 11:22:48 high spec phone a la SGS3: US$600-700 Sep 28 11:23:05 I would be surprised if we got a hardware-keyboard Jolla with much less than 650 EUR non-subsidized Sep 28 11:23:05 mid spec phone a la N9: US$400-500 Sep 28 11:23:33 but I suppose the market prices are different here in Finland.. Sep 28 11:51:26 * Lava_Croft mumbles something about wanting a GNU userland and faster hardware, while not really giving a damn about the rest Sep 28 11:54:19 Why would you want a GNU userland? Sep 28 12:21:22 so, does anyone have a media server (DLNA) setup working with his n900? For me browsing (e.g. for music) works, but it fails when the media player tries to actually open the file for playback ("Unable to find media file"). Any ideas? The server works fine with both foobar-upnp and vlc's upnp browser Sep 28 12:30:00 dafox, PS3 media server with custom profile for N900 Sep 28 12:30:15 also works with the default windows UPnP server Sep 28 12:30:28 Hurrian: cool. Did you have to do anything with you n900 before it worked? Sep 28 12:30:39 dafox, nothing at all. Sep 28 12:30:44 Are you using cssu? Sep 28 12:31:22 The default windows upnp server == windows media player? Sep 28 12:35:57 DocScrutinizer05, Hi, see: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/rx51_battery/commit/8a66270fd2460bbc816f5cf997691a5d5f10fee8 Sep 28 12:45:06 how can I check if my n900 has the latest maemo version? Sep 28 12:52:14 grammoboy: settings->about Sep 28 12:53:04 DocScrutinizer05, 21.2011.38-1 Sep 28 12:53:54 DocScrutinizer51, ^ is that the latest? Sep 28 12:58:27 it looks like it is Sep 28 12:58:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Updating Sep 28 13:32:13 lol Sep 28 13:59:30 ~flashing Sep 28 13:59:31 rumour has it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 28 14:12:27 it is the latest version right? Sep 28 14:53:20 oh that app manager is awful sloooowwwwwwwww Sep 28 14:55:16 HAM is slow, esp when you have extras-testing and extras-devel repos enabled Sep 28 14:56:08 but at least all pkgs are tested to work for isntallation under HAM Sep 28 14:57:16 while other app managers may (and will) occasionally fail on certain packages, which can render your system in an unadmirable state Sep 28 14:58:27 any good youtube app? Sep 28 14:58:41 cutetube qml Sep 28 14:59:47 gps + osm? Sep 28 15:02:14 hm the search function of cutetube seems to suck Sep 28 15:03:38 I search on 'mercy mercy mercy' Sep 28 15:03:44 get whole different results Sep 28 15:06:22 maemo-mapper, one google search away Sep 28 15:07:08 ah order by relevance Sep 28 15:07:16 search:maemo openstreetmap Sep 28 15:07:28 google doesn't tell me which is best Sep 28 15:07:31 thanx Sep 28 15:08:04 if I can search on my N900, you can do as well Sep 28 15:08:08 afk Sep 28 15:23:35 Hurrian: The default windows upnp server == windows media player? Sep 28 15:50:18 hello Sep 28 16:31:18 *yawn* Sep 28 17:34:47 hmm now I have a bash script in /usr/bin and the n900 user can't execute Sep 28 17:34:48 it Sep 28 17:35:00 chmod +x? Sep 28 17:35:08 the shebang is correct? Sep 28 17:35:36 script is 0play Sep 28 17:35:40 I think n900 doesn't use "bash" by default Sep 28 17:35:45 0play not found Sep 28 17:35:49 ah Sep 28 17:41:13 that works Sep 28 17:41:49 what worked Sep 28 17:42:04 changing it from sh to bash Sep 28 17:42:18 http://dabase.com/blog/n900_developer_tips/ Sep 28 17:42:23 and then run the script Sep 28 17:42:58 ah Sep 28 17:42:58 good Sep 28 18:02:53 heh, my n900 barely survived a day of light usage Sep 28 18:03:11 because i forgot it in monitor mode for like 4 hours Sep 28 18:03:11 :s Sep 28 18:05:33 So the chilli thief at work finally revealed himself. Sep 28 18:06:10 I left some daves insanity sauce in a cholula bottle in the fridge. Sep 28 18:06:41 a sauce so hot it is banned from the international hot sauce convention. Sep 28 18:06:58 It was the company CEO all along. Sep 28 18:07:07 oopz. Sep 28 18:13:12 vi__ .... lol Sep 28 18:14:46 vi__: so? Sep 28 18:16:22 anyway, wifi monitor mode absolutely wrecks bluetooth connections Sep 28 18:17:09 So I had to leave the canteen before I had to prove that was my normal chilli sauce that I like to eat. Sep 28 18:17:29 The last I looked he was bright red. Sep 28 18:18:12 kerio: You are aware the bluetooth chip and wifi chip are one and the same? Sep 28 18:18:35 it is why you will never see themboth at the same party at the same time. Sep 28 18:18:36 ...they're not, they just share the same antenna Sep 28 18:18:37 or something Sep 28 18:18:57 or am I thinking of the FM chip... Sep 28 18:18:58 but yeah, i'm aware of them being close Sep 28 18:19:04 and bluetooth and FM transmitter are also somewhat together... Sep 28 18:19:11 bluetooth and fmtx are the same Sep 28 18:19:18 you can't have one of them turned off, i guess Sep 28 19:17:01 duck and cover!!! ;-P Sep 28 19:19:06 <^^> Sep 28 19:19:31 what is a good backup system to backup your whole n900 install? Sep 28 19:21:04 ~bm Sep 28 19:21:04 extra, extra, read all about it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Sep 28 19:24:29 oh hello doc Sep 28 19:34:56 hi Sep 28 20:22:46 *sigh* what have I done?! Sep 28 20:29:24 hm? Sep 28 20:29:36 community-ml Sep 28 20:29:53 * DocScrutinizer05 should nominate ShadowJK ;-P Sep 28 20:30:57 I would decline Sep 28 20:31:24 since you're not as silly as i am Sep 28 20:32:38 lots of bitching for expending your time, not much hope for a bright future, no fame, no money ;-P Sep 28 20:33:33 lemme troll a little, so maybe nobody votes me XP Sep 28 20:34:16 * RST38h yawns Sep 28 20:34:25 So, what is cooking? Sep 28 20:34:40 I forget what the point of it is/was now that nokia is dead Sep 28 20:34:46 Rat meat? Human meat? Elop's chops? Sep 28 20:35:11 * DocScrutinizer05 nominates RST38h Sep 28 20:35:49 * kerio still nominates DocScrutinizer05 as hildon foundation's eternal leader Sep 28 20:35:57 ShadowJK: actually a good point. Seems council is an entity without mission Sep 28 20:36:35 has been that way for a while, haven't you noticed? Sep 28 20:36:43 suuure Sep 28 20:37:03 I just didn't like to frustrate all the youngsters Sep 28 20:37:30 right now council cranks up board Sep 28 20:37:40 but what will council do next term? Sep 28 20:38:39 same as the last term? nothing? Sep 28 20:38:55 right now council cranks up board Sep 28 20:39:12 ooh, *last* term Sep 28 20:39:41 might have a point Sep 28 20:39:59 I think it might make sense to look for migration routes now Sep 28 20:40:17 seems last term been SD69 and he's been terribly busy with other stuff Sep 28 20:40:23 Such as Tizen-on-Galaxy or Boot-2-Gecko or Jolla thing Sep 28 20:40:46 or even Firefox is Sep 28 20:40:48 is Sep 28 20:40:56 OS Sep 28 20:40:57 see Boot-2-Gecko Sep 28 20:41:04 that is firefox "os" Sep 28 20:41:05 ah Sep 28 20:41:11 * SpeedEvil is not awake. Sep 28 20:41:22 jolla might be a sensible project to bang the door, but the other stuff definitely isn't any topic for council Sep 28 20:41:37 you'll never take fremantle away from me! Sep 28 20:41:47 Doc: dunno about council, just looking from the neutralpoint of view Sep 28 20:41:52 though it's amore alien than android Sep 28 20:42:01 Doc: All three are Linux based Sep 28 20:42:19 sure Sep 28 20:42:31 Doc: If you do not like the word "tizen" we can call it SLP Sep 28 20:42:56 Last time I checked tmo, it seemed like people had this funny idea that the council can do actual work like coding, or atleast, do more than what was their purpose last time I checked, to be representatives of community with nokia. Whoever is in council wont change the amount of or direction of cssu at all, I'd think, because it's all volunteer effort anyways.. and I say cssu because it seems the most relevant to any future life support :-) Sep 28 20:43:23 There are live, sane people left at tmo? Miracle. Sep 28 20:43:29 but maemo community is... well, maemo commuinty. If somebody wants to move to android or whatever, he's free to do so. *nobody* will steer the community at large towards any arbitrary point outside maemo Sep 28 20:43:41 But, let us be honest: council has never done anything useful Sep 28 20:44:05 beg to differ Sep 28 20:44:09 RST38h, my point is that that's not even their purpose ;-) Sep 28 20:44:23 ShadowJK: My point is that their purpose is beside the point =) Sep 28 20:44:48 ShadowJK: The community has always been driven by people who could sit down and do something - application, site, faq, etc Sep 28 20:44:51 council helped with device seeding, for instance. When there were projects like h-e-n or SHR Sep 28 20:44:59 ShadowJK: These are generally not council members Sep 28 20:45:12 RST38h, that's MY point, you plagiarizing dolt ;-P Sep 28 20:45:20 Doc: Yeah, but it was long time ago, and even then it was concrete people, not the council in general Sep 28 20:45:24 RST38H: I see, so keeping the lights on = nothing useful? Sep 28 20:45:35 Woody: correct. Sep 28 20:45:46 BS Sep 28 20:45:47 Nah Sep 28 20:45:53 Keeping lights on is vital :-) Sep 28 20:45:53 hi Woody14619 Sep 28 20:46:13 vital how? and for whom? Sep 28 20:46:20 Good to know... When the servers go out Dec 31st, I'll let everyone know it was because you thought it not vital. Sep 28 20:46:29 RST38h: council is not even *meant* to do that steering you expect to see Sep 28 20:46:30 * Woody14619 waves Sep 28 20:46:53 * RST38h does notexpect any "steering": neither him nor the community are cars Sep 28 20:47:16 Btw: Most folks working on CSSU consider the builder and repos to be somewhat important, last I checked. Sep 28 20:47:26 yes Sep 28 20:47:28 [2012-09-28 22:44:48] ShadowJK: The community has always been driven by people who could sit down and do something - application, site, faq, etc Sep 28 20:47:47 it's not council to 'drive' community Sep 28 20:47:55 it's community that does this Sep 28 20:48:11 and how much of the community has been left? Sep 28 20:48:35 well, seems you're not part of those remnants Sep 28 20:48:46 If community council is actually a body of people that actually gets access to be able to fix servers and repos when they break, that'd be cool, but then I'd think the the name would need a change :-) Sep 28 20:49:02 true Sep 28 20:49:16 Doc: I am just a piece of toilet paper in the wind =) Sep 28 20:49:21 Is has. That's what the foundation is for. Sep 28 20:49:28 ShadowJK: that's board, or those who get nominated by board Sep 28 20:50:19 council never been meant to do admin job on servers Sep 28 20:50:34 At the same time, most people that would want to work on that board may NOT want to deal with the community as deeply as Council as (doing things like running award programs, etc Sep 28 20:50:45 Which is why we separated the two. Sep 28 20:50:56 Also, the 6 month or whatever cycle made sense back when maemo was cutting edge growing thing, I wouldn't at all mind if people were made "permanent" members, with provision for replacement on demand through some vote-like process or the member going away him/herself etc Sep 28 20:51:11 and which is why I hope to get elected for none, or both Sep 28 20:51:29 synergy Sep 28 20:51:32 Mind you, Councils job will become immesely easier when they have better access, which they effectivly will if the Foundation can take over everything. Sep 28 20:52:01 access to what? It's not council to admin the servers Sep 28 20:52:08 As good as Niels was, he was one man running most of the show. With the Foundation, that work can be properly divided out. Sep 28 20:52:30 Niels never been council AFAIK Sep 28 20:52:39 No, they won't have direct access. But they'll be able to get actual e-mailed answers, and hopefully more info on what's going on then what we have over the past couple years. Sep 28 20:53:00 yes, that's what council does Sep 28 20:53:00 I never said he was Council... re-read. Sep 28 20:53:31 I never said you said ;-) Sep 28 20:53:32 Right now, if you have a request (like, I want to hold a CC election), you ask Council that, and we have NO access to do anything for it. Sep 28 20:53:56 We can pre-setup some things, but the actual lever must be pulled by the admin. Sep 28 20:54:01 that's why we get a proper board now, for that Sep 28 20:54:55 and the board will not do this job themselves either, usually. They nominate /and maybe even pay) some (semi-)professional admin for that. That's the way things work in RL Sep 28 20:55:22 btw, I now also got a quad core 1.6GHz android device with 1 gigs of Ram.. but N900 is still main device, and the android pisses me off everytime I try use it, sits mostly unused, except for playing Grand Theft Auto Sep 28 20:55:29 And when that admin only replies to one in 10 e-mails, it can be frustrating. Then add Nokia stoping payment for the admin group to do *anything* related to your group, and it's all volunteer. Sep 28 20:56:11 when the admin does that, he gets a thankful kick in the backside Sep 28 20:56:21 that's what board is for Sep 28 20:56:38 aaah... nokia will take my n900 tomorrow Sep 28 20:56:42 that's why board holds the master key Sep 28 20:56:46 Yes... The Board will be more in control by way of dividing up who does what... though some direct admining may happen at first... Sep 28 20:56:47 only tomorrow *sigh* Sep 28 20:56:57 * RiD broke the conversation Sep 28 20:57:35 * ShadowJK wonders if maemo infra is still horrendously expensive, mer/meego/jolla allegedly got hosting costs down to <300, and they've probably got more dev activity these days than maemo? Sep 28 20:57:40 * DocScrutinizer05 breaks his monologue now, to get some TV and a nice ABSOLUT wodka to forget the silly things he did today Sep 28 20:58:15 FFS council nomination, WTF?! Sep 28 20:58:34 Woody14619: will you run for another term? Sep 28 20:58:48 ShadowJK: For Nokia, probably. For the foundation, we're hoping we can bring it down significantly.... Sep 28 20:58:58 For Council or for Board? Sep 28 20:59:16 DocScrutinizer05, this video will make sense after the vodka http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDboaDrHGbA Sep 28 20:59:17 anything Sep 28 20:59:45 I already put on the ML that I would run for Board, with a very special caveat that I will be relativly inactive until March. Sep 28 20:59:53 >> Dieses Video ist in Deutschland leider nicht verfügbar, da es möglicherweise Musik enthält, für die die erforderlichen Musikrechte von der GEMA nicht eingeräumt wurden. Das tut uns leid.<< Sep 28 21:00:07 My work is spinning up right now... Oct to March is our super-heavy season. Sep 28 21:00:58 DocScrutinizer05, heh Sep 28 21:01:24 My professional future is on the deities as usual Sep 28 21:01:38 * ShadowJK wonders what youtube makes of his location, currently outgoing requests are randomly originating from .nl or .fi for me :-) Sep 28 21:02:10 right now my 40h+ week leaves me sleeping the rest of the time (aside from a lil IRC occasionally) Sep 28 21:03:17 if only every tmo user would pay me 50ct / month, i probably could make a nice living from that and dedicate all my time 24/7 to maemo Sep 28 21:03:26 I know the feeling re 40/sleep :P Sep 28 21:06:31 Seriously? Smart has lost it's mind. Sep 28 21:07:29 At the next show they're showing a concept electic, get this "with a built in video projector, so every wall is a drive-in theater". Sep 28 21:08:52 Is my calendar off? Is it April 1st or something? http://int.smart.com/information-service-show-cars-smart-forstars/1a72867e-a527-5116-8503-f69c5cf315bd Sep 28 21:09:03 Woody14619: eh? Sep 28 21:09:15 WTF is "smart"? Sep 28 21:09:28 which show? Sep 28 21:09:39 ~dict electic Sep 28 21:09:41 Dictionary 'electic' \E*lec"tic\, a. See {Eclectic}. [1913 Webster] Sep 28 21:09:51 ooh Sep 28 21:10:06 1913 ;-P Sep 28 21:10:32 Paris at the Mondial de l�Automobile Sep 28 21:11:23 smart is a car manufacturer Sep 28 21:12:21 meh, please don't talk about Automobile to me. Volkswagen said they're ueber-eager to get hold of me, after they've read what I done so far (buzzword backseat entertainment). But it means moving from South of Germany to North, permanently Sep 28 21:13:23 I'm considering purchasing an electric car atm Sep 28 21:14:15 Doc: "North" as in "Prussia"? Sep 28 21:14:22 DocScrutinizer05: maemo-based car gogogogogo Sep 28 21:14:23 ShadowJK: Oh god no. Sep 28 21:14:41 My current wishlist consists of: Brushless motor, diesel(-ish) fired heater, well insulated battery compartment, oversized battery compartment, open documented motor control and battery charger and battery management system. Sep 28 21:14:45 kerio: that's meego, you remember? Sep 28 21:14:49 no, i don't Sep 28 21:15:03 cuz meego sucks Sep 28 21:15:12 meego backseat entertainment branch Sep 28 21:15:16 ShadowJK: And the on-board controllers should run software written in emacs! Sep 28 21:15:41 probably the only branch of meego that actually flourished Sep 28 21:16:00 maybe because it wasnt really Meego? Sep 28 21:16:02 I can get the above sans brushless for 10kE from non-traditional manufacturers. I can get from established manufacturers only the brushless features from above, for 40kE. Sep 28 21:16:18 RST38h: BS, this was *real* meego Sep 28 21:16:30 Doc The media one? Mmm... yeah maybe Sep 28 21:16:37 * RST38h stands corrected Sep 28 21:16:57 ShadowJK: Or you can get a turbodiesel Folkswagen Sep 28 21:17:09 ShadowJK: and save on BOTH car and fuel Sep 28 21:17:13 I'd get a Chevy/Opel Volt/Ampera, if the price wasn't silly and if you could fix it yourself when it "bricks" Sep 28 21:17:36 RST38h, local taxes make diesels extremely expensive for me Sep 28 21:17:44 Oh Sep 28 21:18:00 But not more expensive than electrics, right? Sep 28 21:18:35 However, if the diesel is only used for heating, and not for propulsion, and if the car seats max 2, I'd pay a twentieth in car tax, and I could legally run the heating unit on "Light Heating Oil", which is essentially diesel, but tax-free and half cost of diesel Sep 28 21:19:16 RST38h, annual taxes for owning the car Sep 28 21:20:21 evil Sep 28 21:21:16 There's tax on the purchase price of the car, which you pay when you purchase a new car. There's also an annual tax, which you pay every year that you own a car. The more Co2 your car emits, the more you pay. However, diesels have a different scale to petrol, so diesel is only economical if you drive *alot*, otherwise the annual tax eats up the advantage Sep 28 21:22:07 a <=2 seat electric in comparison has almost negligible annual tax Sep 28 21:22:20 shadowJK, yowch Sep 28 21:23:09 my new diesel SUV chows down less gas a week than my gas sedan, with the SUV seeing slightly more use per week. Sep 28 21:23:19 shadowjk: smart makes an electric... their 3rd gen is due out in a month or so. Sep 28 21:23:34 Woody14619, yeah but it's still going to be obscenely expensive Sep 28 21:23:41 I'm on the list to get one.... I have a gas smart now. Sep 28 21:23:55 No.. smart electric starts at $22K Sep 28 21:24:32 Compaired to the $13K gas start, sure... more expensive, but not >$40K like the Volt. Sep 28 21:25:07 Weird, volt is 45kE here, I'd expected any outside price to be half of local price :-) Sep 28 21:25:22 45kE second hand, mind Sep 28 21:25:56 what kind of range does 22k smart come with? :-) Sep 28 21:27:20 They're saying 90 miles, which is pretty reasonable. Sep 28 21:28:09 I did calculations on a Subaru miniature delivery van thing, originally lead-acid, the battery pack I'd want to build in it would cost 7000 and get me about that range Sep 28 21:28:15 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders how to avoid worst case scenario: getting so embarrased of not being able to comply with council duties, to not even contribute to community at all as a simple member Sep 28 21:29:17 maybe slightly less range, depending on cruise speed Sep 28 21:29:22 a boxy van is quite inefficient :/ Sep 28 21:30:19 I wonder what kind of pricing BYD has, I think they're coming to the US soon? Will have to wait here in europe still :/ Sep 28 21:33:06 I heard BYD scored on crash tests like a nail bed Sep 28 21:33:55 If they give me moose repellant I'll be fine Sep 28 21:33:58 ;P Sep 28 21:35:44 On the subaru minivan I calculated break-even point was 5 years Sep 28 21:36:40 (relative to petrol consumption of my current car) Sep 28 21:37:10 This assumes nothing breaks down on it Sep 28 21:38:00 and on oil market Sep 28 21:38:07 My look on the smart is I need a second car (our old second is crapping the bed). So we're looking at two smarts. $9K delta on a gas vs electric? Break even on that is about 2.5 years where I am, less when you cut out the oil changes and what not. Sep 28 21:38:30 And that was at $3.50/gallon. We're at close to $4.25 now. Sep 28 21:38:53 With some random BYD, or any american or any french car, or an opel, making 5 years without major welding jobs due to rusting is a bit like winning the lottery :-) Sep 28 21:39:03 Woody14619: haha, count in the battery changes every 5 years Sep 28 21:39:04 So... Really a no brainer. Sep 28 21:39:54 The smart batteries are from Tesla. Life is supposed to be 8 years to 80%. Sep 28 21:40:12 supposed? or guaranteed? Sep 28 21:40:18 Even then, the battery replacement is only $4k. Sep 28 21:40:24 duh Sep 28 21:40:44 I have the same question, waiting on that from the dealership. ; Sep 28 21:41:18 The tesla pack is horribly complicated Sep 28 21:41:23 But really... even then... add up the oil changes, plugs, etc.. Sep 28 21:41:40 meh Sep 28 21:41:56 Ah yeah, US oil changes are about 4X as frequent as EU oil changes? Sep 28 21:41:56 Yes and no. It's got more control circutry (better load balance), but 95% of that is reusable. Sep 28 21:42:17 * ShadowJK read somewhere on interwebs that the same engine and same oil have different oil changing intervals in US and EU Sep 28 21:42:46 Yes and no. :) Smarts are rated to run 10,000 miles between changes. Sep 28 21:42:50 Hm, is it Volt I'm thinking of? The one built out of essentially laptop-sized cells Sep 28 21:43:03 I bet that's due to silly way to use cars / operate engines in USA Sep 28 21:43:23 DocScrutinizer05, nah, apparently some have oil change at 5000km? Sep 28 21:44:03 Where in EU they call for 20K (so 12K/13K in miles?) Sep 28 21:44:12 Not a huge difference. Sep 28 21:44:44 My current toyota goes 15000 between oil change.. but it leaks a little bit, and it has really small oil capacity... when the oil light comes in, I refill it with like 95% of its capacity in oil? O_0 Sep 28 21:45:00 So I have to conclude that the engine probably would run without it ;-D Sep 28 21:45:07 Used to have a Geo Storm like that. :) Sep 28 21:45:18 I actually has a Sentra run without oil for almost a month. Sep 28 21:45:50 I put one of those late-night tv specials in, that "bonds" to your engine to reduce friction. Sep 28 21:46:08 Actually worked well apparently. Quieted the car down. ;) Sep 28 21:47:52 I took it in because it wouldn't start on cold mornings, turns out, no oil... pan was bone dry. :P Sep 28 21:48:43 The plug apparently got whacked on a nasty pot hole somewhere... Sep 28 21:49:01 Anyway... as fun as this is... I'm off to dinner and gone for the weekend. Sep 28 21:49:10 Btw, a funny thing about batteries. A123 makes the *best* automotive battery ever, there's just one minor annoyance with it, and one major annoyance. The minor one is that they make them really tiny, so you need a huge amount of them. The major annoyance is that they odn't actually sell them. Luckily, a China factory makes batteries that are half as good (which is twice as good as they need to be), in big formats (I'd beed 25 for the subaru compared to 30 Sep 28 21:49:17 0+ if I used A123), AND they actually sell them, and ship them. Not terribly surprising, A123 kinda went out of business and got acquired for its IP by a chinese company, and production has been dead for months :/ Sep 28 21:49:58 Only about 2 more hours to nominate for Council! :) Sep 28 21:52:21 K, see you all around! :) Sep 28 22:41:31 I'm gonna make an application Sep 28 22:41:37 that you say out loud Sep 28 22:41:39 "what time is it?" Sep 28 22:41:45 and your N900 will tell you the current time in your language Sep 28 22:41:50 would you use an app like that? Sep 28 22:41:54 I really need it badly Sep 28 22:42:05 lol Sep 28 22:42:12 isn't the siri clone already doing that? Sep 28 22:42:17 fuck really? Sep 28 22:42:19 saere or something Sep 28 22:42:23 Saera Sep 28 22:42:25 but you have to press a button or something Sep 28 22:42:29 I want it on all the itme Sep 28 22:42:30 yea Sep 28 22:42:30 time Sep 28 22:42:35 nope no idea Sc0rpius_ , haven't used my phone for 2 weeks or so Sep 28 22:42:40 I mean listening the mike 24/7 Sep 28 22:42:47 bye bye battery Sep 28 22:43:14 yeah :( Sep 28 22:43:24 then I'm gonna make a device just for that using a Raspberry Pi baord or something Sep 28 22:43:28 lol Sep 28 22:43:31 why? Sep 28 22:43:36 why would you want something to say the time? Sep 28 22:43:56 too lazy to use a clock? Sep 28 22:44:18 well I'm myope Sep 28 22:44:22 ...oh Sep 28 22:44:25 at nights even if I open my eyes I just can't read clocks Sep 28 22:44:31 I have this projection clock Sep 28 22:44:39 it works great the numbers are so big that even I can read them Sep 28 22:44:50 why not a fullsized n900 clock app then? Sep 28 22:44:51 but during the day you can't see the numbers Sep 28 22:44:53 you can't see it? Sep 28 22:44:59 no Sep 28 22:45:02 what Sep 28 22:45:05 it has to be like 1 meter long Sep 28 22:45:08 for me to read it without glasses Sep 28 22:45:22 but my ears work fine! Sep 28 22:45:31 can't say the same about me Sep 28 22:45:32 I think there are voice recognition alarm clocks out there Sep 28 22:45:34 my problem is in the ears haha Sep 28 22:45:46 clearly you need my n900 mod, with the 42" display Sep 28 22:46:01