**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 16 03:00:02 2012 Oct 16 06:22:26 hello Oct 16 06:22:38 I have a small problem booting maemo using u-boot Oct 16 06:22:54 mainly it loads the kernel but then it hangs at starting kernel... and reboots Oct 16 06:23:11 the only way to have it working again is to reflash the stock kernel Oct 16 06:23:30 I'm not booting power kernels, just the stock, and uboot does work for booting nitdroid Oct 16 06:23:39 any ideas? Oct 16 06:24:41 i looked on the forums at maemo.org but I couldn't find a similar problem, just an hint to sdl modules from n9 that might give problems, but i didn't install anything like that Oct 16 06:24:57 anyone get ngrep working for the n900? Oct 16 06:24:59 ?? Oct 16 06:25:16 /? Oct 16 10:14:40 on the wiki it says " Ensure the battery is fully charged. Connect to charger until green light when screen locked!" but why? reflashing takes just some minutes and even 25% of battery is going to be enough Oct 16 10:17:46 fully chaeged'ia perhaps overkill Oct 16 10:26:51 half charged is overkill too Oct 16 10:28:01 well, that is if everything went ok, if not, you'll need your battery Oct 16 10:28:44 indeed Oct 16 10:29:06 * Lava_Croft eyes his stack of BL-5J's Oct 16 10:29:48 one day shit will hit the fan. After a week, I will be the only human in a wide radius with a working smartphone-ish device Oct 16 10:34:00 without power, my minimal load condition gets about 10 days tablet +dsl Oct 16 10:34:19 i stream audio quite a lot, every day :< Oct 16 10:35:01 but I can in an emergency hook the couple of solar panels I have up to the ups, and boost that to a point where it will work for most days in the year Oct 16 12:03:45 SpeedEvil, do you have a local mirror of maemo repository for your survival phone? Oct 16 12:40:34 I can't get dropn900 to work. I enter my email and my password and it says "email and/or password invalid". I'm 100% sure about my pass. What could be wrong? Oct 16 12:45:11 you enabled 2fa and forgot about that? Oct 16 12:47:00 Arkenoi, 2fa? on dropbox? Oct 16 12:47:03 nope Oct 16 12:47:18 I can login using the browser easily Oct 16 12:51:25 there was something you needed to besides installing it, cant remember what but it's on tmo thread Oct 16 12:51:37 to do Oct 16 12:52:37 lap - no, that's with internet connectivity Oct 16 12:58:06 Skry, it says that I shouldn't install anything Oct 16 12:58:26 says thats installing dropn900 is all I have to do Oct 16 13:03:34 anybody? :\ Oct 16 13:20:48 oh come on! I really need it! Oct 16 13:21:02 how can I get more information about it? Oct 16 13:21:09 and should I try reinstalling it? Oct 16 13:23:46 would mirroring the maemo repos be of any use? Oct 16 13:23:52 Are there rsync addresses available? Oct 16 13:33:09 akls: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1162398&postcount=417 Oct 16 13:53:04 Skry!!! Oct 16 13:53:11 Skry you're my savior :) Oct 16 13:53:13 thank you Oct 16 13:57:19 akls: np Oct 16 15:58:41 Pali: I am not sure my mail has reached the guy who is assessing u-boot patch, I don;t see any comment from him re thumb errata code Oct 16 16:00:58 freemangordon, ok I can ask Oct 16 16:24:32 Pali: BTW your "high-endian" :P could be soved with something like le_to_cpu (or similar) Oct 16 16:29:51 big-endian :-) but there is no problem. 16bit value is devided into two 8 bit and called in correct order Oct 16 16:30:01 it is working Oct 16 16:38:38 btw, your message is here: http://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2012-October/137308.html Oct 16 16:50:42 :) Oct 16 16:51:47 Pali: sure it is working, but I must admit I agree wioth that guy. can't you just 'OR' theam and do one 16 bit write to the register? Oct 16 16:52:20 I really do not know. I reused linux driver Oct 16 16:52:31 hmm, lemme open the TRM Oct 16 16:53:34 and I see that in linux kernel and in uboot are used only 8bit i2c read/write functions Oct 16 16:55:05 freemangordon: btw, why is thumb2 faster? just because of cache issues? Oct 16 16:56:47 kerio: not only that, it has a couple of instructions not present in ARM Oct 16 16:57:11 i thought ARM was supposed to be better Oct 16 16:57:28 kerio: no Oct 16 17:00:18 Pali: hmm, by looking in TRM 16bit write is possible Oct 16 17:00:38 Pali: do yo have swcu050g.pdf Oct 16 17:00:42 *you Oct 16 17:01:10 spruf98v.pdf Oct 16 17:01:19 "The register-addressing scheme in the device allows the capability to write to or read from multiple adjacent registers with simplified I2C signaling. Oct 16 17:01:22 " Oct 16 17:01:41 no, not cortex TRM, you need twl4030 TRM AIUI Oct 16 17:01:53 this? http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/swcu050g/swcu050g.pdf Oct 16 17:02:04 yep Oct 16 17:02:21 Pali: btw the correct TRM for n900 is "OMAP34xx_ES3.1.x_PUBLIC_TRM_vZM.pdf" Oct 16 17:02:22 :P Oct 16 17:02:40 can you give me link? Oct 16 17:03:03 NFC where I did get that from, lemme google Oct 16 17:03:46 http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/OMAP34xx_ES3.1.x_PUBLIC_TRM_vZM.zip Oct 16 17:04:09 maybe there is newer version, didn't check Oct 16 17:05:32 hm, In notebook I have OMAP34xx_ES3.1.x_PUBLIC_TRM_vZT.pdf Oct 16 17:05:46 and your link is M (my T) Oct 16 17:05:52 it is new version? Oct 16 17:06:00 or other version? Oct 16 17:06:14 don;t know, seems like yours is newer Oct 16 17:06:33 mine is "Version M" Oct 16 17:06:42 "July 2007–Revised February 2011" Oct 16 17:07:28 anyway, where in that TRM is "TWL4030_CHIP_PM_MASTER" Oct 16 17:07:36 July 2007 – Revised January 2012 Oct 16 17:08:03 I don;t think there is such, so which section describes i2c addressing modes? Oct 16 17:08:11 hmm, link? :P Oct 16 17:08:51 is there any reason why not use thumb2? Oct 16 17:09:03 it is #define in linux kernel Oct 16 17:09:13 twlsomething.h maybe in i2c subdir Oct 16 17:09:24 Pali: or just send it over IRC (if your client supports file transfers) Oct 16 17:09:33 or devifine in uboot Oct 16 17:09:39 Pali: but still, this is twl... TRM, not omap Oct 16 17:09:46 but in TRM there is no TWL4030_CHIP_PM_MASTER Oct 16 17:11:16 Pali: look on p80 in swcu050g.pdf Oct 16 17:11:27 entitled: depends Oct 16 17:11:40 on what you want to use it for :P Oct 16 17:12:12 well mainly i'm puzzled about the compatibility Oct 16 17:12:29 Pali: on p81 are PB_WORD_MSB/LSB regs Oct 16 17:12:43 entitled: compatibility with what? Oct 16 17:13:18 well with non-thumb2 builds Oct 16 17:13:19 for sure you MUST NOT use kernel which does not support it Oct 16 17:13:31 but otherwise there is no issue Oct 16 17:13:54 ~2119 Oct 16 17:13:55 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Oct 16 17:14:09 hehe Oct 16 17:14:32 Pali: so if there is 16 bit i2c access in uboot, you should be ok Oct 16 17:15:08 just use cpu_to_be and you should be fine Oct 16 17:17:16 Pali: __cpu_to_be16 is your functio, NFC if it exisis in u-boot Oct 16 17:18:49 Pali: http://git.denx.de/?p=u-boot.git;a=blob;f=include/linux/byteorder/little_endian.h;h=a46f3ecc12acf6cd532ee6424812861bdf1c5e95;hb=HEAD#l40 Oct 16 17:19:36 hmm, actually it is little-endian Oct 16 17:20:35 according to TRM, so __cpu_to_le16 is what you need Oct 16 17:26:50 Pali: look here http://git.denx.de/?p=u-boot.git;a=blob;f=include/twl4030.h;h=9cd32ab45a15dcc61ce537bf3316fd45dabd2b81;hb=HEAD#l499 Oct 16 17:28:12 http://git.denx.de/?p=u-boot.git;a=blob;f=include/i2c.h;h=16f099d2eeb906588a0f9233a42fb8b9a9847ef4;hb=HEAD#l156 Oct 16 17:28:14 too Oct 16 17:36:49 the latest seems to be http://www.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/OMAP34xx_ES3.1.x_PUBLIC_TRM_vZV.zip Oct 16 17:39:12 Pali: well, sorry, it is big-endian after all, so you should do something like : Oct 16 17:39:21 u16 msg = __cpu_to_be16(MSG_SINGULAR(DEV_GRP_P1, id, mode)); Oct 16 17:39:21 i2c_write(TWL4030_CHIP_PM_MASTER, TWL4030_PM_MASTER_PB_WORD_MSB, 1, &msg, sizeof(msg)); Oct 16 18:08:15 so how can I install firefox? Links are not working! http://wiki.maemo.org/Firefox_mobile Oct 16 18:26:57 ALRIGHT Oct 16 18:27:25 so I was trying to replace ash with bash Oct 16 18:27:44 I've edited the /etc/passwd file and changed /bin/sh to /bin/bash Oct 16 18:27:51 but I have bash 4 installed Oct 16 18:28:00 so the path should be /bin/bash4 Oct 16 18:28:06 but now I can't change it :\ Oct 16 18:28:12 what can I do? Oct 16 18:28:32 *sigh* http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/OMAP34xx_ES3.1.x_PUBLIC_TRM_vZM.zip p.2956 1-wire/HDQ -- if only Nokia was smart enough to copy smart battery of FR (they copied a few other things, so why not this?) Oct 16 18:33:00 akls: it's not recommended to replace default shell messybox by bash Oct 16 18:33:38 why? Oct 16 18:33:54 in former times it caused a bootloop (when done correctly(SIC), by also adding bash to /etc/shells etc) Oct 16 18:34:38 So what do yo suggest? Oct 16 18:34:45 initscripts and xsession et all may depend on messyboxisms Oct 16 18:34:50 To continue vomiting every time I see this damn shell? Oct 16 18:35:10 well, I'm not completely replacing it Oct 16 18:35:16 only for user and root in /etc/passwd Oct 16 18:35:17 nah, I have bash installed but not as default shell Oct 16 18:35:41 ~jrtools Oct 16 18:35:42 well, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Oct 16 18:36:53 btw bash is only half of the cake, all the messybox unixtools crap needs proper replacements too, otherwise you still see messybox shit on e.g. `ls --help` and you still have to vomit ;-D Oct 16 18:39:37 akls: the bootloop been caused by *user* doing X aka HildonDesktop startup, when some of the scripts barfed up on proper ps/ls/grep/$command Oct 16 18:40:10 anyway, how can I fix my n900 now? Oct 16 18:40:23 it's up and running, but I can't get to x terminal now Oct 16 18:40:41 how can I edit /etc/passwd now? Oct 16 18:41:12 akls: lol! Oct 16 18:42:01 hm, why do i have bash3 and not bash4? :o Oct 16 18:42:30 many users forgot to define bash in /etc/shells Oct 16 18:42:40 bash-setup does that for you :3 Oct 16 18:42:59 man setusershell Oct 16 18:43:15 hey, really Oct 16 18:43:16 akls: try ssh Oct 16 18:43:20 so they wonder why they still get messybox Oct 16 18:43:24 maybe sshd is less archaic Oct 16 18:43:32 kerio, good idea Oct 16 18:43:39 DocScrutinizer05: the result isn't messybox, the result is that you're unable to login Oct 16 18:43:52 yeah Oct 16 18:44:48 kerio, is dropbear ssh server ok? Oct 16 18:44:58 why the fuck did you install dropbear Oct 16 18:45:01 it's a piece of crap Oct 16 18:45:04 akls: you might be able to use mc or even filemanager to fix things, too Oct 16 18:45:05 I didn't Oct 16 18:45:24 kerio, I'm just looking for something to make ssh work Oct 16 18:45:26 oh, you still have to install it Oct 16 18:45:29 openssh Oct 16 18:45:40 it's not in the app manager :o Oct 16 18:45:51 it is, when you add the right repo Oct 16 18:46:02 akls: or make a package that has "chsh user /bin/sh" in one of the install scripts Oct 16 18:46:04 OH Oct 16 18:46:06 it's there Oct 16 18:46:43 ~jrtools Oct 16 18:46:43 from memory, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Oct 16 18:47:09 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/repositories.install Oct 16 18:51:56 kerio, how can I ssh to it now? I mean... which user should I use? Oct 16 18:52:05 "user" Oct 16 18:52:39 Permission denied, please try again Oct 16 18:53:02 didn't it make you set a password? Oct 16 18:53:09 or maybe just for "root" Oct 16 18:53:10 login as root Oct 16 18:53:23 it asked me for the password Oct 16 18:53:29 but somehow it does not accept it Oct 16 18:54:34 maybe I've typed it wrong both times? O_o Oct 16 18:58:25 DocScrutinizer05: ping Oct 16 18:59:01 DocScrutinizer05: did you ever find a good sized 5.5v 1F cap to replace the internal battery? Oct 16 18:59:37 nope Oct 16 19:00:27 kerio: don't you think ssh also invokes a shell for user? Oct 16 19:00:40 that's what I thought about Oct 16 19:00:44 DocScrutinizer05: yeah but i think openssh doesn't use login Oct 16 19:00:50 as in, the "login" binary Oct 16 19:00:56 it does its own thing Oct 16 19:01:06 also, i said to *try* Oct 16 19:01:22 akls: what did you do, did you actually change /bin/sh or did you just set the shell for user? Oct 16 19:01:35 kerio, I've changed /etc/passwd file Oct 16 19:01:49 kerio, replaced the /bin/sh to /bin/bash for root and user Oct 16 19:02:03 if openssh doesn't work, you're probably boned Oct 16 19:02:11 kerio: google 'birds with arms' Oct 16 19:02:35 kerio, I can install any app Oct 16 19:02:36 vi__: WHY IS THIS A THING Oct 16 19:02:39 kerio: Oct 16 19:02:43 1 706 root 20 0 S - - - 0:00.12 0.0 0.3 `- /usr/sbin/sshd -D Oct 16 19:02:44 706 5036 root 20 0 S - - - 0:00.43 0.0 0.8 | `- sshd: root@pts/0 Oct 16 19:02:45 kerio, is there anything to change /etc/passwd file? Oct 16 19:02:46 5036 5040 root 20 0 S - - - 0:00.03 0.0 0.3 | `- -sh Oct 16 19:02:51 DocScrutinizer05: don't paste! Oct 16 19:02:52 kerio: exactly Oct 16 19:02:55 kerio: see 3rd line Oct 16 19:03:01 kerio: uh? Oct 16 19:03:17 DocScrutinizer05: i don't see a "login" there :) Oct 16 19:03:28 wtf who cares about login Oct 16 19:03:33 it's sh Oct 16 19:03:41 it's login that does the stupid check for the login shell in /etc/shells Oct 16 19:03:51 hmm Oct 16 19:04:00 * kerio has "/bin/bash" as the login shell for user *and* root, and everything works Oct 16 19:04:11 kerio, oh Oct 16 19:04:17 kerio, but I have bash 4 installed Oct 16 19:04:20 kerio, and it's bash4 Oct 16 19:04:25 ok, whatever Oct 16 19:04:34 just make sure that your login shell is listed in /etc/shells Oct 16 19:04:34 akls: try mc!! Oct 16 19:04:58 kerio, if I install bash3, would it be /bin/bash? Oct 16 19:05:04 or /bin/bash3 ? Oct 16 19:05:05 akls: i think it would Oct 16 19:05:11 but don't focus on the specific path Oct 16 19:05:15 DocScrutinizer05, mc? Oct 16 19:05:30 DocScrutinizer05: we need a .deb that resets the login shell to /bin/sh Oct 16 19:05:35 oh, file manager Oct 16 19:05:39 pfff Oct 16 19:06:20 akls: mc has mcedit as well Oct 16 19:06:26 "F4" Oct 16 19:06:44 DocScrutinizer05: can mc escalate its priviledges? Oct 16 19:06:58 (if you wonder - F4 can be typed as "esc" "4" ) Oct 16 19:07:18 kerio: good question Oct 16 19:07:42 otherwise... rescueos :D Oct 16 19:07:49 :-P Oct 16 19:08:31 PHEWT Oct 16 19:10:09 classical shoot-in-own-foot, now we need a "vulenrability" to get in despite we locked us out Oct 16 19:10:10 fixed it by installing bash3 Oct 16 19:10:24 oh, it was just a wrong shell? Oct 16 19:10:27 that's even more hilarious Oct 16 19:10:34 kerio, ? Oct 16 19:10:44 you put /bin/bash instead of /bin/bash4? Oct 16 19:10:48 kerio, in /etc/passwd I've typed /bin/bash Oct 16 19:10:48 yes Oct 16 19:11:21 yeah, iirc bash4 is actually /bin/bash4 Oct 16 19:11:30 while bash3 is /bin/bash Oct 16 19:12:47 kerio, now what about /etc/shells? Oct 16 19:13:00 akls: afaik bash3's packaging adds /bin/bash to it Oct 16 19:13:04 kerio, /bin/bash4 and /bin/sh are already there Oct 16 19:13:17 otherwise... dk Oct 16 19:13:18 idk Oct 16 19:13:25 kerio, anything I should do with this file? Oct 16 19:13:31 well, you can't modify it Oct 16 19:13:35 can you? Oct 16 19:13:36 cat it, for a start Oct 16 19:13:51 hmm, i wonder if mc can run arbitrary binaries Oct 16 19:13:52 I can, why not? Oct 16 19:13:54 if it's even there Oct 16 19:13:55 like "/bin/bash" Oct 16 19:14:07 /bin/bash4 Oct 16 19:14:10 /bin/sh Oct 16 19:14:33 i mean, does it use exec* or does it use system? Oct 16 19:14:43 yeah, you should echo /bin/bash >>/etc/shells Oct 16 19:15:24 but again, it's not recommended Oct 16 19:15:38 though kerio claims it works now Oct 16 19:15:52 it's been working since PR1.2 Oct 16 19:16:06 it didn't back in PR1.N times, with N<2 Oct 16 19:23:21 "yeah, you should echo /bin/bash >>/etc/shells" why if I want to use bash4? Oct 16 19:23:46 and bash 4 is already there somehow Oct 16 19:32:40 kerio, sudo gainroot open ash shell Oct 16 19:32:51 kerio, how did you fix it? Oct 16 19:33:03 i didn't have to fix anything, idk Oct 16 19:33:14 if you used chsh instead of editing /etc/passwd... Oct 16 19:33:37 kerio, can I edit it back and then use chsh? Oct 16 19:33:53 you can chsh now Oct 16 19:33:59 do you have a root shell running? Oct 16 19:34:10 yes Oct 16 19:34:52 chsh -s /bin/bash4 user && chsh -s /bin/bash4 root Oct 16 19:34:53 ? Oct 16 19:35:03 am I doing it right? Oct 16 19:35:14 yep Oct 16 19:36:02 so I open up x terminal ( bash 4 ) Oct 16 19:36:09 then I type "sudo gainroot" Oct 16 19:36:16 and now its ash again Oct 16 19:36:17 :\ Oct 16 19:36:21 of course it is Oct 16 19:36:27 oh Oct 16 19:36:28 gainroot is a fucking abomination Oct 16 19:36:38 sudo root then? Oct 16 19:36:40 just add an appropriate entry in a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ Oct 16 19:38:42 kerio, did you mean /etc/sudoers? :\ Oct 16 19:40:39 nope! Oct 16 19:40:50 add it in a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ and then run update-sudoers Oct 16 19:41:03 otherwise it'll be overwritten as soon as something installs a new file there, in theory Oct 16 19:41:30 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71236259/2012-10-16-224120_960x148_scrot.png Oct 16 19:41:53 sudser and rootsh are both fucking awful Oct 16 19:42:01 lol Oct 16 19:42:09 sure, they're user-friendly Oct 16 19:42:21 but root access shouldn't be available to users who need user-friendly Oct 16 19:47:31 kerio, got it! Oct 16 19:47:34 ok now Oct 16 19:47:38 I'll try rebooting... Oct 16 19:47:43 thanks! Oct 16 19:47:48 :) Oct 16 19:47:48 sudser is a brainfsck Oct 16 19:48:10 ~jrtools Oct 16 19:48:11 [jrtools] http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Oct 16 19:48:39 I'm not quoting this 3 times now, just for fun Oct 16 19:49:18 (([2012-10-16 21:47:38] I'll try rebooting...)) famous last words :-P Oct 16 19:51:22 IroN900:~# ls -l `which sh` Oct 16 19:51:24 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2012-09-11 15:34 /bin/sh -> busybox Oct 16 19:52:09 think about that, then ponder if you *really* want to replace messybox by bash4 systemwide Oct 16 19:52:24 DocScrutinizer05, it worked Oct 16 19:54:38 "it worked" is irrelevant, "it still works, and I tested every possible case" is a tad more relevant but obviously an inherent lie Oct 16 19:54:41 and I had to change password again to ssh successfully Oct 16 19:56:17 DocScrutinizer05: i tested every possible case! Oct 16 19:57:04 i tested /bin/bash and /bin/BASH Oct 16 19:57:08 the second one didn't work Oct 16 20:03:25 oooh a joke, dude I'm really sub-par today Oct 16 20:06:38 anyway, gainroot is not exactly an abomination, it simply is using /bin/sh, see: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2012-09-11 15:34 /bin/sh -> busybox Oct 16 20:07:31 less /usr/sbin/gainroot Oct 16 20:08:25 DocScrutinizer05: gainroot, according to nokia, is a check for rd-mode and then a root shell Oct 16 20:08:43 rootsh changes that file in a postinstall script, which is *already* a big fucking no Oct 16 20:09:02 though I admit >>HISTFILE=/root/.ash_history /bin/sh<< is a tad ... silly Oct 16 20:10:24 there's a proper way to do what rootsh and sudser fail to do Oct 16 20:10:32 ...since it assumes /bin/sh is a synonym for ash Oct 16 20:15:31 meh, this kind of thing is a mess on the n900 :s Oct 16 20:15:48 messybox is a mess Oct 16 20:16:02 everything else is just a result of that Oct 16 20:16:36 also the "single user, single login" thing Oct 16 20:16:44 that's not necessarily busybox's fault Oct 16 20:20:32 that's correct Oct 16 20:20:53 Nokia dropped the ball there, for no good reason Oct 16 20:21:50 at least that's my uneducated notion on it Oct 16 22:17:46 "unzip: zip flags 1 and 8 are not supported" is this busybox' fault or zip creator's fault? Oct 16 22:31:35 * RST38h dances, sacrifices a goat Oct 16 23:25:10 RST38h: hm? Oct 16 23:25:47 he has some issues with animals, last time it was a hamster if i recall Oct 16 23:25:58 hehe yep Oct 16 23:26:17 though I guess animal have problems with RST38h Oct 16 23:26:50 yes, apparently Oct 16 23:29:53 Doc: Nothing personal towards the critters, just coding for Android Oct 16 23:37:18 * SpeedEvil sings at android. Oct 16 23:37:22 sighs Oct 16 23:37:41 * SpeedEvil stabs android vkbd, Oct 16 23:37:53 better stab SurfaceView Oct 16 23:38:23 so much quasisexual intercourse, and it does not even give you direct access to the framebuffer. Oct 16 23:38:38 I'd pay $25 or so for a solution that enabled proper integration of X apps into it. Oct 16 23:38:52 that will cost you $25k Oct 16 23:39:02 so that a KDE app could bring up and down wifi, foe example Oct 16 23:39:03 in development costs Oct 16 23:39:10 I mean as a user. Oct 16 23:39:14 I know. Oct 16 23:39:29 nobody gives a damn about android users Oct 16 23:39:31 even google Oct 16 23:39:59 it's basically the same issue as wanting x apps to be able to interact with windows programs in wine. Oct 16 23:40:16 indeed. Oct 16 23:40:44 in many ways I'd like to be able t buy a Google subscription. Oct 16 23:40:57 and turn off all the ads. Oct 16 23:42:40 you can turn off all the ads Oct 16 23:43:04 search "LuckyPatcher", except that I specifically check for it in my apps and refuse to run =) Oct 16 23:43:28 well, yes. :-) Oct 16 23:43:47 my hugest objection to android is the permission model. Oct 16 23:44:00 Actually, need to figure out just what exactly it does at the low level and kill it properly Oct 16 23:44:12 With minimal collateral damage Oct 16 23:44:30 5 of the 6 top calculator apps have all the permissions they need to scan my network at 3am, and report back to China. Oct 16 23:44:37 or start spamming Oct 16 23:44:41 that too Oct 16 23:44:51 but it is no different from Symbian or [hehe] Harmattan Oct 16 23:45:10 'same origin' internet connectivity would be a bit better Oct 16 23:45:31 and a separate channel to push as even better yet Oct 16 23:45:33 permission contract models basically suck, yes Oct 16 23:45:36 sure Oct 16 23:45:43 push as Oct 16 23:45:51 ads Oct 16 23:45:54 grr Oct 16 23:46:09 * RST38h considers publishing his own calculators apps Oct 16 23:46:33 SpeedEvil: Will you use something like this? http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/ Oct 16 23:47:09 no. Oct 16 23:47:15 to be honest Oct 16 23:47:23 oh well Oct 16 23:47:34 currently using 'realcalc' Oct 16 23:48:08 but I don't think I've actually used it for more than a 4 op calculator Oct 16 23:48:22 the market can feel extremely shallow Oct 16 23:48:29 mine is actually better btw Oct 16 23:48:34 there are half a down 'cad' apps Oct 16 23:48:38 dozen Oct 16 23:48:52 they all suck on touchscreens Oct 16 23:48:54 Yes, Captain Obvious Oct 16 23:49:26 there is be proof of concept thing with an awesome idea that nobody uses Oct 16 23:49:39 Because (1) Free or $.99 apps are not worth developing and maintaining Oct 16 23:49:43 one finger moves cursor, which is offset Oct 16 23:50:02 other finger is 'pen up/down' Oct 16 23:50:14 and discovery is a bitch Oct 16 23:50:24 and (2) Chinese can produce dozens of apps a month, but it does not mean you will want to use any of them Oct 16 23:52:05 Funny how all these calc apps look the same =) Kids just ain't all that inventive nowadays... Oct 16 23:52:40 not looking the same is a legitimate barrier to entry Oct 16 23:53:12 hehe Oct 16 23:54:44 * SpeedEvil is annoyed at the charge metre driver of the nexus 7. Oct 16 23:54:55 doesn't expose current_now Oct 16 23:54:58 wtf Oct 16 23:55:34 ...SCP-1867 is a nudibranch of the species Nembrotha kubaryana (variable neon slug), measuring 11.7 cm (4.6 inches) in length. It identifies itself as Lord Theodore Thomas Blackwood, a British explorer and naturalist, speaks with terminology and style appropriate to late nineteenth century England, and is generally friendly and cooperative with researchers. Oct 16 23:56:42 slide rule looks awesome Oct 16 23:56:58 but I they to avoid derivatives these days :-) Oct 16 23:57:02 try Oct 16 23:57:12 How about ratios? Oct 16 23:57:29 :-) Oct 16 23:57:35 SlideRule will try simplifying a ratio for you before going to decimal point and losing precision Oct 17 00:01:31 I'm truly surprised at what n900s are still going for on eBay Oct 17 00:01:41 How about n950s? Oct 17 00:06:00 I wish there was a way in android to make arbitrary apps not freeze when you switch to another app. But then again, I have a suspicion all the powersaving relies on this freeze-the-world model, and there'd be a few magnitudes more powerdrain issues with it compare to maemo. Oct 17 00:06:10 :-\ tempting Oct 17 00:06:18