**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 05 02:59:59 2012
Nov 05 04:50:19 <zimba12_> has this ever been fixed: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39432 ?
Nov 05 06:06:52 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: maemo isn't very portable, but hildon-desktop should be
Nov 05 06:08:09 <ShadowJK> zimba12_; dunno about gmail, but I have gigantic email account and it works fast enough, but only shows like 500 emails at a time or something like that
Nov 05 07:35:35 <timmy_> i use kvpnc on my computer to connent to a pptp server, on my n900, i have installed all the necessary packages and enabled all the important modules to be able to connect to the server, now i can successfully connect to that server through my phone, but unfortunately it seems that pppd does not replace the default route, how can i do this? this is the command line i use to connect to that server : pppd call kvpnc.uni  
Nov 05 09:19:22 <freemangordon> once USB port has fallen, what is the chance to repair it?
Nov 05 09:19:50 <freemangordon> i.e. is there any, given I have access to soldering stations and such
Nov 05 09:20:29 <jacekowski> slim
Nov 05 09:20:44 <jacekowski> but possible
Nov 05 09:21:59 <freemangordon> jacekowski: would you elaborate
Nov 05 09:22:52 <jacekowski> you can get correct signals from places on the pcb
Nov 05 09:23:15 <jacekowski> but mechanically it will still be an issue
Nov 05 09:25:15 <freemangordon> well, there are strong enough glues, I was thinking mostly about electrical part
Nov 05 09:25:32 <DocScrutinizer51> ~usbfix
Nov 05 09:25:32 <infobot> it has been said that usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)
Nov 05 09:25:53 <freemangordon> 10x
Nov 05 09:26:07 <DocScrutinizer51> glue NOT recommended
Nov 05 09:26:16 <DocScrutinizer51> doesn't work
Nov 05 09:26:29 <DocScrutinizer51> solder the shite down tough
Nov 05 09:26:58 <Cor-Ai> ~DocScrutinizer51
Nov 05 09:26:59 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, docscrutinizer51 is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, who, unfortunately, turned a little psycho lately, so fails to maintain chanop responsibilities @ #maemo. His main life goal sems to (now) about depreciating Current Maemo Council, and, especially, it's chair. Also, see "zealot" on wikipedia, before start of any discussion with DocScrutinizer
Nov 05 09:27:22 <DocScrutinizer51> WTF?
Nov 05 09:27:35 <Cor-Ai> indeed wtf o.O
Nov 05 09:28:29 <DocScrutinizer51> ~-forget DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 05 09:28:42 <DocScrutinizer51> ~forget DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 05 09:28:43 <infobot> DocScrutinizer51: i forgot docscrutinizer51
Nov 05 09:28:54 <DocScrutinizer51> dang
Nov 05 09:28:55 <Cor-Ai> haha
Nov 05 09:29:09 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 05 09:29:09 <infobot> DocScrutinizer51: there's no such factoid as docscrutinizer51
Nov 05 09:29:14 <chem|st> uh that was estel I guess
Nov 05 09:29:21 <DocScrutinizer51> ~unforget DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 05 09:29:21 <infobot> DocScrutinizer51: Successfully recovered 'docscrutinizer51'.  Have fun now.
Nov 05 09:29:25 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 05 09:29:25 <infobot> docscrutinizer51 -- created by Estel_ <~Estel@178.180.179.76.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl> at Sat Jun  2 16:06:45 2012 (155 days); last modified 42s ago  by docscrutinizer51; it has been requested 3 times, last by Cor-Ai, 2m 27s ago.
Nov 05 09:29:53 <DocScrutinizer51> ~forget DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 05 09:29:54 <infobot> DocScrutinizer51: i forgot docscrutinizer51
Nov 05 09:32:15 <DocScrutinizer51> ~DocScrutinizer51 is <reply>see DocScrutinizer
Nov 05 09:32:15 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer51
Nov 05 09:32:26 <DocScrutinizer51> ~lock DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 05 09:32:27 <infobot> DocScrutinizer51: locking factoid docscrutinizer51
Nov 05 09:33:13 <DocScrutinizer51> FU estel!!! >:-(
Nov 05 09:33:19 <Cor-Ai> well that was fun :D so your j0ERG?! :p
Nov 05 09:33:45 <DocScrutinizer51> a /whois might tellya
Nov 05 09:33:46 <Cor-Ai> who ever that is..
Nov 05 09:35:10 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo joerg
Nov 05 09:35:10 <infobot> joerg -- created by jOERG <n=jr-N810@p5493F5D9.dip.t-dialin.net> at Thu Oct 23 12:00:02 2008 (1473 days); it has been requested 42 times, last by DocScrutinizer05 at Fri Aug 31 13:02:14 2012; it has been locked by jOERG.
Nov 05 09:35:33 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo DocScrutinizer51 
Nov 05 09:35:34 <infobot> docscrutinizer51 -- created by DocScrutinizer51 <~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg> 3m 18s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer51.
Nov 05 09:35:53 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo DocScrutinizer05 
Nov 05 09:35:53 <infobot> docscrutinizer05 -- created by vi__ <5860d978@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.96.217.120> at Fri Jul 27 09:02:56 2012 (101 days); last modified at Fri Jul 27 09:03:55 2012 by DocScrutinizer05!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 2 times, last by kerio at Fri Jul 27 03:05:23 2012; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer05.
Nov 05 09:36:14 <DocScrutinizer51> ~factinfo DocScrutinizer06
Nov 05 09:36:15 <infobot> docscrutinizer06 -- created by DocScrutinizer05 <~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Fri Jul 27 09:04:41 2012 (101 days); it has been locked by DocScrutinizer05.
Nov 05 09:36:21 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51: what I see on the picture the lady sent me, it cannot be resoldered, as copper is ungued
Nov 05 09:36:31 <freemangordon> *unglued
Nov 05 09:37:32 <DocScrutinizer51> also the huuuge copper planes left and right of recptacle?
Nov 05 09:37:45 <DocScrutinizer51> the green areas?
Nov 05 09:38:51 <freemangordon> I have only a picture of the port, the big square planes seem unglued, not desoldered
Nov 05 09:40:30 <freemangordon> she told me she dropped the phone with charger connected :D
Nov 05 09:40:43 <DocScrutinizer51> possible, but usbfix suggests to solder USB component to fresh previously unused areas
Nov 05 09:40:55 <DocScrutinizer51> see ~usbfix
Nov 05 09:40:55 <freemangordon> is there such?
Nov 05 09:41:14 <freemangordon> hmm, it will be possible then
Nov 05 09:41:18 <DocScrutinizer51> there are detailed pictures
Nov 05 09:41:23 <freemangordon> ok, hanks a lot
Nov 05 09:41:32 <DocScrutinizer51> yw
Nov 05 09:57:17 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: one thing I am unable to find the answer - is it possible to reuse the old port?
Nov 05 10:12:39 <DocScrutinizer51> depends
Nov 05 10:13:55 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: if the 5 electical pins are all ok, it's possible, though deprecated - port may got dmaged mechanically
Nov 05 10:15:01 <DocScrutinizer51> new port is a tad hard to find, but finally there are some onfleabay for cents/unit
Nov 05 10:17:57 <vi__> usb ports?
Nov 05 10:20:42 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Nov 05 10:21:23 <DocScrutinizer51> aka micro-USB receptacle component
Nov 05 10:21:47 <DocScrutinizer51> SMT
Nov 05 10:24:26 <DocScrutinizer51> also mouser and/or digikey may have some
Nov 05 10:25:13 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry IRCing from N900, so no access to my 'database' on home PC right now
Nov 05 10:26:06 <DocScrutinizer51> (otherwise I  had fixed that estel mess in infobot in a less public way as well)
Nov 05 10:27:29 <DocScrutinizer51> ~listkeys docscrut
Nov 05 10:27:30 <infobot> Factoid search of 'docscrut' by key (10): docscrutinizer51 #DEL# ;; docscrutinizer05 ;; docscrutinizer51 ;; docscrutinizer's pager ;; docscrutinizer ;; docscrutinizing #DEL# ;; docscrutinizing ;; docscrutinizer #DEL# ;; docscrutinizer06 ;; docscrutinizing, #DEL#.
Nov 05 10:28:14 <DocScrutinizer51> ~listkeys joerg
Nov 05 10:28:15 <infobot> Factoid search of 'joerg' by key (2): joerg #DEL# ;; joerg.
Nov 05 10:31:46 <vi__> DocScrutinizer51: lols
Nov 05 10:31:57 <vi__> did he write some bad stuff about you?
Nov 05 12:50:27 <DocScrutinizer51> HEEEEAALLP!
Nov 05 12:51:13 <DocScrutinizer51> they switched my XP (bad enough) station at work to FSCKNG VISTA :-((((
Nov 05 12:51:45 <DocScrutinizer51> resign or lart the PC?
Nov 05 12:52:30 <DocScrutinizer51> or is there @"howtolive with fubar OS" guide I never heard about? Maybe pills could help?
Nov 05 12:53:56 * DocScrutinizer51 feels terrible nausea, and rage
Nov 05 12:57:37 <DocScrutinizer51> trying to say to myself "couldve been worse, they might have got youwin8"
Nov 05 12:57:49 <DocScrutinizer51> doesn't help
Nov 05 12:59:35 <ShadowJK> wtf vista?
Nov 05 13:00:37 <jaska> indeed. wtf
Nov 05 13:01:01 <ShadowJK> vista is unfixable. It raped the hd all day. Leaving it running overnight is required atleast once a week. Leaving it on for a week or two after fresh install too. This will moderate the hd rape a little bit.
Nov 05 13:01:41 <ShadowJK> why would they move to visa and not 7?
Nov 05 13:06:07 <ShadowJK> I dont know what's up with Vista. Some computer "professionals" say that to "fix" the memory-hogging issues with Vista, MS completely disabled disk caching to free ram.
Nov 05 13:06:50 <ShadowJK> But this sounds too stupid to be true.
Nov 05 13:09:08 <fasta> How can I autoconnect to wifi?
Nov 05 13:09:28 <fasta> Because for some reason that's not happening.
Nov 05 13:18:05 <vi__> wtf. vista?
Nov 05 13:18:13 <vi__> truely microsofts windows ME.
Nov 05 14:10:29 <zimba12_> ShadowJK: mine is incredibly slow, did you tweak Modest somehow?
Nov 05 14:58:33 <vi__> is this the n800 bastard cousin 3 times removed?
Nov 05 14:58:37 <vi__> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Zhongyi-S101-MID-Cell-Phones-Linux-SmartPhone-with-Firefox-MSN-Wifi/342963035.html
Nov 05 15:10:02 <vi__> interesting.
Nov 05 15:10:43 <vi__> cpu freqs 500-805 uses avaerage 10mA more than 250-600
Nov 05 15:16:59 <akls> is there any way to change behavior of the powerbutton, camera button, volume keys and nokia lock thing?
Nov 05 15:18:32 <vi_> on what device?
Nov 05 15:18:49 <akls> n900 of course
Nov 05 15:19:31 <vi_> camera button is easy, you can install shortcutd
Nov 05 15:19:59 <vi_> it will let you assign custom functions to the camera key that work as long as the camera slide is closed.
Nov 05 15:20:01 <Sysaxed> vi_, btw, yesterday you've asked about keyboard improvements. Change blue+backspace to Delete key. It's not going to work in xterm but anywhere else it works
Nov 05 15:20:45 <Sysaxed> vi_, nice one! what about others?
Nov 05 15:20:47 <vi_> Sysaxed: true, however I want the ability to backspace when I have blue locked (when entering ip addresses for example)
Nov 05 15:21:22 <Sysaxed> vi_, maybe it's just you
Nov 05 15:21:36 <Sysaxed> but I guess that people use delete key more often than backspacing ip address
Nov 05 15:21:49 <vi_> Sysaxed: The most common assignment to camera key is task manager on camera focus,
Nov 05 15:22:00 <vi_> Once you get used to that, there is NO going back.
Nov 05 15:22:05 <StyXman> heeh
Nov 05 15:22:23 <vi_> trying to use n900 without it is like having a lobotomy.
Nov 05 15:23:16 <vi_> personally I have skip music track assigned to camera key full press.
Nov 05 15:23:48 <vi_> shortcutd also lets you define your own actions for the proximity sensor.
Nov 05 15:23:58 <vi_> skip track, run command etc.
Nov 05 15:24:05 <vi_> anything really.
Nov 05 15:24:32 <vi_> I seem to recall there was a dbus-scripts thing for swapping the power key and the lock slider.
Nov 05 15:25:18 <vi_> Actually the more I think about it, a power button/lock slider swap would be sweet.
Nov 05 15:25:49 <vi_> However I would far rather is was acheived without the need for dbus-dcripts.
Nov 05 15:26:31 <vi_> There is also a thing called long-press that allows you to assign a custom action to a long hold of the lock slider.
Nov 05 15:27:00 <vi_> The function of the power key is defined in /etc/mce/mce.ini
Nov 05 15:27:15 <vi_> long press/short press/double press etc.
Nov 05 15:31:04 <Sysaxed> vi_, damn :D
Nov 05 15:31:06 <Sysaxed> sounds nice
Nov 05 15:31:25 <Sysaxed> well, I'm trying to find a better way to lock screen
Nov 05 15:31:43 <Sysaxed> power button double press opens up a menu for a second
Nov 05 15:31:48 <Sysaxed> which makes music in cmus stop
Nov 05 15:31:53 <Sysaxed> same for making it go back
Nov 05 15:32:25 <Sysaxed> I thought maybe I could make it so power button single press simply locks the screen and same one press unlocks it too
Nov 05 15:32:32 <Sysaxed> can't use the switch - it's gone
Nov 05 15:32:46 <Sysaxed> I mean... the thing on top of it is worn out
Nov 05 15:32:55 <Sysaxed> so I can only use it with a nail
Nov 05 15:38:07 <Sysaxed> <vi_> The function of the power key is defined in /etc/mce/mce.ini
Nov 05 15:38:22 <Sysaxed> but it's not possible to set your own action
Nov 05 15:38:32 <Sysaxed> there are only 4 available
Nov 05 15:40:54 <StyXman> 4 is better than 1
Nov 05 15:50:20 <vi_> yes, meego mce is superior in that respect, however no one has felt the need to backport it.
Nov 05 15:54:26 <Sysaxed> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/powerlaunch
Nov 05 15:54:30 <Sysaxed> does it work with n900?
Nov 05 15:58:22 <vi_> That looks like an n8x0 program.
Nov 05 16:04:28 <Sysaxed>  10. Put both thumbs of either side of the desktop and release 1 thumb for quick desktop transition.
Nov 05 16:04:29 <Sysaxed> HAHA
Nov 05 16:04:31 <Sysaxed> tricky :D
Nov 05 16:05:50 <vi_> wut?
Nov 05 16:07:54 <Sysaxed> vi_, try it :D
Nov 05 16:17:07 <vi_> where did you read this?
Nov 05 16:20:26 <vi_> whoa
Nov 05 16:20:54 <vi_> you can kind of scroll down in microb if you put your thumb on the top left corner and tap the bottom right.
Nov 05 16:22:33 <Sysaxed> vi_, http://talk.maemo.org/archive/index.php/t-64241.html
Nov 05 16:23:09 <Sysaxed> is there any way to disable this swipe to unlock thing?
Nov 05 16:23:15 <Sysaxed> so I can unlock with a single press
Nov 05 16:23:20 <Sysaxed> without swiping
Nov 05 16:23:38 <Sysaxed> my pockets are not fucking aliens that like to use my phone from time to time
Nov 05 16:31:06 <vi_> Sysaxed: I wish, however the lockscreen thing is closed source.
Nov 05 16:31:16 <vi_> swipe to unlock is stupid ass shit.
Nov 05 16:31:36 <Sysaxed> but I don't want to modify it's code
Nov 05 16:31:40 <vi_> Like some retard said in a board meeting 'hey guys we NEED swipe to unlock'.
Nov 05 16:31:40 <Sysaxed> I want to remove it fully
Nov 05 16:32:01 <vi_> well there is an alternative called qtlockscreen.
Nov 05 16:32:05 <vi_> or something.
Nov 05 16:34:33 <Sysaxed> vi_, but really, where is the file located?
Nov 05 16:34:35 <Sysaxed> or smth
Nov 05 16:34:42 <Sysaxed> what's going to happen if I totally remove it?
Nov 05 16:40:29 <vi_> remove the tklockscreen plugin?
Nov 05 16:40:36 <vi_> I have literally no idea.
Nov 05 16:40:46 <vi_> Be a hero and find out...for science.
Nov 05 16:40:57 <vi_> (make a backup first).
Nov 05 16:41:35 <Sysaxed> no, the default one
Nov 05 16:41:49 <Sysaxed> or how does tklockscreen gets rid of the default one?
Nov 05 16:43:44 <Sysaxed> gtg :_:
Nov 05 16:46:34 <vi_> bb
Nov 05 17:11:32 <Sysaxed> where's vi :D
Nov 05 17:19:10 <Sysaxed> wtf, there are custom lock screens, but no app to remove it?
Nov 05 17:19:42 <Sysaxed> if it's closed source, then how come people were able to replace it?
Nov 05 17:21:56 <Pali> somebody here who know how is custom lock screen implemented?
Nov 05 17:25:32 <Sysaxed> vi has mentioned that it's possible to assign camera key and other things using shortcutd. Does it work when the screen is locked?
Nov 05 17:30:40 <Pali> I do not know how locksreen in maemo working...
Nov 05 17:31:02 <Pali> but I think it can be connected to mce
Nov 05 17:40:02 <entitled> I've set the camera key to control media player with shortcutd
Nov 05 17:40:19 <entitled> doesen't seem to work while locked
Nov 05 18:15:52 <merlin1991> Pali: custom lock screen by mag is a dirty hack
Nov 05 18:16:02 <merlin1991> it renders another window ontop of the nokia lock screen
Nov 05 18:19:32 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Nov 05 18:22:08 <Pali> :-(
Nov 05 18:22:09 <Pali> ok
Nov 05 18:32:11 <DocScrutinizer05> hey Woody14619b, how's life? :-)
Nov 05 18:33:00 <Woody14619b> hey :) Sorry, was chatting w/ the manager about something.
Nov 05 18:33:46 <Woody14619b> Going well, over all.  Still a little tired/beat-up & recovering from the flu, but with a weekend of rest behind me, much better.
Nov 05 18:34:27 <Woody14619b> How you been?  All reved up for  Council life. ;)
Nov 05 18:35:44 <Woody14619b> .oO(And why is this on my b alias?  Damn net splits...
Nov 05 18:35:58 <Woody14619b> brb
Nov 05 18:37:14 <Woody14619> k.  That's better. :)
Nov 05 18:38:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<vi_> yes, meego mce is superior in that respect, however no one has felt the need to backport it.)) incorrect, alas much of fremantle mce is done in plugins (libs) that are closed and _not_ available from meego
Nov 05 18:39:08 <DocScrutinizer05> so nobody finished task when starting to RE or backport mce
Nov 05 18:41:47 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: I'm basically not yet in touch with any council stuff
Nov 05 18:42:40 <Woody14619> Well, that's going to update/change soon. :)
Nov 05 18:42:50 <DocScrutinizer05> been tortured by 3 day flu and dentist sessions all around that 
Nov 05 18:43:16 <DocScrutinizer05> a really lovely combo
Nov 05 18:43:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and today they switched my workstation at job from winXP to winVista :-o
Nov 05 18:44:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm still shivering from the strike
Nov 05 18:44:27 <ajalkane> A win win day. No wonder you seem so happy!
Nov 05 18:45:28 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, the relief to not have to worry about admin of my own PC... really a great thing
Nov 05 18:46:22 <kerio> >win win
Nov 05 18:46:25 <kerio> i see what you did there
Nov 05 18:46:48 <ajalkane> :P
Nov 05 19:00:33 <chem|st> Woody14619: just read your PM... 
Nov 05 19:01:27 <Woody14619> docscrutinizer05: Vista?  Why.  Jump to Win7.  Vista is a mess. :P
Nov 05 19:01:31 <chem|st> you should find a PM stating that you got points, if not so you did not get any
Nov 05 19:01:57 <Woody14619> chem|st: I kinda thought as much, but.. at the same time figured I may have deserved a few. ;)
Nov 05 19:02:25 <chem|st> Woody14619: not if someone else started, my opinion
Nov 05 19:03:11 <chem|st> didn't check for further replies from mods yet
Nov 05 19:03:12 <Woody14619> :) Well, not a huge issue to me either way.  Nothing bad enough to get a boot, I figued. ;)
Nov 05 19:03:58 <chem|st> Woody14619: usually I have a look who I strike and how hard it has to be
Nov 05 19:04:40 <chem|st> in some few cases people start an argument with the mod giving infraction points
Nov 05 19:05:34 <chem|st> most of the time people calm down when it comes to moderation and getting infrractions, just a few do not learn from mistakes
Nov 05 19:06:24 <chem|st> if I'd be hard someone would be gone for a month by my hand, but I requested to have someone else click the button if need be
Nov 05 19:10:37 <DocScrutinizer05> trolls on tmo?
Nov 05 19:11:02 <ajalkane> Only Lumiaman is keeping that place sane
Nov 05 19:12:02 <chem|st> ajalkane: you have no idea
Nov 05 19:12:11 <chem|st> good morning crashanddie 
Nov 05 19:13:40 <ajalkane> chem|st: hehe yeah, I can actually imagine. Such a relatively large discussion site as that will get fair amount of spam and trolling
Nov 05 19:14:19 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer05: same people as always
Nov 05 19:14:34 <chem|st> there was no big change in members...
Nov 05 19:14:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I feel like suffering, toss me a link please
Nov 05 19:19:58 <chem|st> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87466
Nov 05 19:20:59 <vi__> trolls??
Nov 05 19:21:02 <vi__> tmo??
Nov 05 19:21:12 <vi__> what has become of this plae???
Nov 05 19:21:21 <vi__> ~tm0
Nov 05 19:21:21 <infobot> it has been said that tm0 is trolls, mooses and orangutans
Nov 05 19:29:50 <Sysaxed_> what the fuck
Nov 05 19:30:30 <ajalkane> heh... that thread is pretty good example of "Sup dawg, I heard you like trolling, so I posted on your forum so you can look at trolling while I'm trolling your forum"
Nov 05 19:30:30 <kerio> oh estel, you so silly
Nov 05 19:30:44 <Sysaxed_> how come shortcutd developers have only made 1 possible custom shell command??
Nov 05 19:31:33 <Sysaxed_> 4 triggers, one command
Nov 05 19:31:39 <Sysaxed_> awesome.
Nov 05 19:31:52 * rZr : http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=41828#post41828 # Have you noticed http://wiki.meego.com offline ? Can it be rescued ? #MeeGo #TiZen
Nov 05 19:32:54 <Sysaxed_> you'd better fix registration problem. I can't get to my account for weeks
Nov 05 19:43:02 <Sysaxed_>  motherfuck!!!!
Nov 05 19:54:49 <kerio> yo deepy\SIGSEGV, how's it going
Nov 05 19:54:58 <kerio> with your life and/your n900
Nov 05 19:55:04 <kerio> s/your/or/
Nov 05 19:55:04 <infobot> kerio meant: with or life and/your n900
Nov 05 19:55:14 <kerio> ah fuck
Nov 05 19:58:02 <MrPingu> fail! 
Nov 05 19:59:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
Nov 05 20:00:56 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: I'm absolutely puzzled by what's going to happen with council voting now, and seems I'm not the only one. Are we voting for a 3-heads council now, or are we not voting at all, or maybe something still different which I couldn't even think of?
Nov 05 20:01:24 <DocScrutinizer05> are there 5 candidates or not?
Nov 05 20:01:52 <DocScrutinizer05> will we vote 3 out of 5 like I once thought would happen?
Nov 05 20:02:18 <Woody14619> There are 5 candidates.  And by the election rules for Council, that means no election.  All 5 will be appointed.
Nov 05 20:02:38 <DocScrutinizer05> that's what I thought last as as well
Nov 05 20:03:07 <Woody14619> The Board followed the bylaws, which were correctly updated to say "less than 6" would trigger an election of 3.
Nov 05 20:03:18 <DocScrutinizer05> but then...: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1287476#post1287476
Nov 05 20:04:32 <Woody14619> That was true for 4 candidates running.
Nov 05 20:04:47 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe I did get that wrong, but how's that going to work when no election at all?
Nov 05 20:05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> at 30.10. there were already 5
Nov 05 20:05:05 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc
Nov 05 20:05:30 <DocScrutinizer05> since nomination closed 28.
Nov 05 20:06:07 <Woody14619> Ivan/Qwazix may not have fully realized the situation.  Indeed, even Rob thought there was an "option" of an eleciton.  But this is not the first time this has happened.
Nov 05 20:06:27 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Nov 05 20:06:37 <Woody14619> There was another election, in the past, with exactly 5 candidates.  All 5 were appointed.
Nov 05 20:06:52 <Woody14619> Jaffa and Rob both validated this when it was mentioned.
Nov 05 20:06:54 <DocScrutinizer05> so maybe you're the right person to straighten the confusion with a clear post
Nov 05 20:07:57 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: was that on extended nomination (the past 5 vote) or initial?
Nov 05 20:08:22 <Woody14619> I will... But frankly it was taking a little time to get replies from people for it.  My reading of the rules makes it clear to me what must happen for 5 candidates.  But then I'd been accused of not seeking input before, so... I took the time to do so.
Nov 05 20:08:26 <DocScrutinizer05> (just out of interest)
Nov 05 20:09:03 <Woody14619> I honestly do not know.  I could ask that, though I'm not sure it makes much of a difference?
Nov 05 20:09:18 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, doesn't make any difference
Nov 05 20:09:54 <DocScrutinizer05> what would make a funny difference was ivgalvez stepping down now, after first claiming I'm not allowed to
Nov 05 20:10:09 <DocScrutinizer05> nevertheless I wish he did
Nov 05 20:10:22 <DocScrutinizer05> if that's what he prefers to do
Nov 05 20:10:57 <DocScrutinizer05> so we could get a real vote and I could get a chance to get away without that 6 months sentence
Nov 05 20:11:10 <Woody14619> I think he's taken to the idea of acting as a conduit between the two bodies, which I think is a good idea honestly.
Nov 05 20:12:01 <DocScrutinizer05> that's been my original plan as well, and the reason I self-nominated for board. SD69 wasn't amused, and then I wasn't either by that
Nov 05 20:12:29 <Woody14619> The rule in question is rule 10 at http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process 
Nov 05 20:12:44 <Woody14619> > 10. If fewer than 5 candidates stand for election, the 3 with the most votes are elected to the council. 
Nov 05 20:13:14 <Woody14619> There are not fewer than 5... There are exactly 5.  Which means rule 5 is in effect.
Nov 05 20:13:22 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, those rules are quite ambiguous
Nov 05 20:13:24 <Woody14619> > 5. The 5 nominees voted for most, as counted by a single transferrable vote system are elected.
Nov 05 20:13:32 <Woody14619> I don't see how...
Nov 05 20:13:57 <Woody14619> They're broken... I'll grant you that.  But ambiguous?  Not really.
Nov 05 20:14:03 <DocScrutinizer05> or rather, illogical for the niche cases
Nov 05 20:14:34 <Woody14619> Agreed.  But they also don't give leway for me, as Chair, to randomly override them.
Nov 05 20:14:59 <Woody14619> They have an ammendment process (rule 12), which should be used to repair them.
Nov 05 20:15:11 <DocScrutinizer05> the one who phrased rule10 never thought about applying it after nomination extension. It sounds like it's not thoroughly thought over at all
Nov 05 20:15:34 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, overirde rules isn't exactly easy
Nov 05 20:15:56 <Woody14619> But then, in 3 months, Maemo Council (rep to Nokia) is pretty much moot.  Foundation Council (in bylaws) is then relevant, and they rules there are already "fixed" to be more sane.
Nov 05 20:16:18 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Nov 05 20:16:29 <Woody14619> Agreed...  Which is why I wanted the bylaws to be reviewed and ironed well.  To avoid just this situation later.
Nov 05 20:16:41 <Woody14619> Which I personally feel, we did a reasonable job at.
Nov 05 20:17:26 <Woody14619> But as for annoucements, yes.  That's happening.  So... Be prepared to show up at 18:00 UTC for your first Council meeting / hand-off. ;)
Nov 05 20:18:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I peronally would've tailored rules/bylaws sth like "for each seat of council (up to the max of 5) there have to be 2 candidates running. So for less than 10 candidates the council will be 4..." 
Nov 05 20:18:35 <Woody14619> If you're sly about it, you could even pre-mail and pre-meet with the others and fanagle your way into getting a pre-agreement that you'll take on Chair, just like the start of last cycle... ;)
Nov 05 20:18:55 <DocScrutinizer05> but the we'd have pair council counts, which also was a point we didn't want
Nov 05 20:19:04 <Woody14619> Now see... where were you the past 3 months with that suggestion? ;)
Nov 05 20:19:56 <DocScrutinizer05> involved in fighting the flames
Nov 05 20:20:06 <DocScrutinizer05> and job eating me
Nov 05 20:20:08 <Woody14619> The other issue with that is you have to set bounds on upper/lower limits.  Nobody wants a council of 1 or 2...
Nov 05 20:20:37 <Woody14619> Nor do they want a coucil of 9.  Nor any even number.  Nor, nor, nor...
Nov 05 20:20:46 <Woody14619> Better just to codify it as we did in the bylaws.
Nov 05 20:20:47 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Nov 05 20:21:02 <DocScrutinizer05> was just a momentary thought
Nov 05 20:21:29 <DocScrutinizer05> circling around the insanity of 4 or 3 or 5 candidates
Nov 05 20:21:37 <Woody14619> Under 4 candidates, extend nominations.  Under 6, elect 3.  Under 8, elect 5.  Else elect 7.
Nov 05 20:21:54 <DocScrutinizer05> or that
Nov 05 20:22:01 <Sysaxed_> what is a softpoweroff feature?
Nov 05 20:22:06 <Woody14619> That's how bylaws are for Board.  
Nov 05 20:22:16 <DocScrutinizer05> Sysaxed_: a good question
Nov 05 20:22:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Sysaxed_: probably an extended more radical screenlock
Nov 05 20:22:46 <Woody14619> Foundation Council is similar, but "Under 8, elect 5. Elec elect 7" just reads "Else elect 5." :)
Nov 05 20:22:48 <Sysaxed_> wtf...
Nov 05 20:22:50 <DocScrutinizer05> that also shuts down lots of the processes
Nov 05 20:23:12 <Sysaxed_> DocScrutinizer05, so I can recieve calls in this mode?
Nov 05 20:23:24 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno, maybe
Nov 05 20:23:42 <Sysaxed_> I'll try it
Nov 05 20:23:43 <Woody14619> What device is this?  N9?
Nov 05 20:23:48 <Sysaxed_> n900
Nov 05 20:23:50 <DocScrutinizer05> I seem to recall mce.ini has a config to keep wlan up during soft-powerdown
Nov 05 20:24:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I anyway guess it's very similar to ACT_DEAD, the state you get when plugging a powered down phone to charger
Nov 05 20:24:54 <Woody14619> Sysaxed_: Maybe for alarm state a well?  If a scheduled alarm is due?
Nov 05 20:25:18 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: it will wake up from true powerdown on RTC alarm
Nov 05 20:25:30 <Sysaxed_> okay, I'll try both and then come back
Nov 05 20:25:43 <Sysaxed_> DocScrutinizer05, OH, really????
Nov 05 20:25:48 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Nov 05 20:25:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I tested that some 3 years ago ;-)
Nov 05 20:26:15 <Sysaxed_> so I can turn my phone off before going to bed?
Nov 05 20:26:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess you can, yes
Nov 05 20:26:38 <DocScrutinizer05> just try it :-D
Nov 05 20:26:43 <Sysaxed_> ok
Nov 05 20:26:49 <DocScrutinizer05> *before* going to sleep
Nov 05 20:27:01 <Sysaxed_> see ya in 20 mins
Nov 05 20:27:06 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Nov 05 20:27:14 <DocScrutinizer05> much appreciated
Nov 05 20:27:23 <Sicelo> iirc all phones do that, at least all Nokia ones
Nov 05 20:27:31 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Nov 05 20:27:53 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why I tested it on - like - day 20 of my N900 period
Nov 05 20:28:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and I recall me thinking "so good so far"
Nov 05 20:29:07 <Woody14619> :)
Nov 05 20:29:17 <Woody14619> Also, FWIW: http://maemo.org/community/council/meet_the_new-q1_2011-maemo_community_council/
Nov 05 20:29:26 <DocScrutinizer05> btw this feature, plus the 911 call, are what makes lockscreen and stuff so annoyingly complex
Nov 05 20:30:14 <Woody14619> Last time there were 5 nominees, and no election.
Nov 05 20:30:47 <DocScrutinizer05> c'mon, gimme the one detail already :-)
Nov 05 20:30:49 <Woody14619> .oO(I may, in fact, just steal this page and change the date/names for the blog post... ;)
Nov 05 20:31:11 <DocScrutinizer05> with or without nomination extension?
Nov 05 20:32:42 <Woody14619> Looks like without.  As the initial time table would have put nomination closing at the 14th, and this is dated the 19th.
Nov 05 20:32:56 <Woody14619> Election announcement: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1_2011#Election_timetable
Nov 05 20:32:58 <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much
Nov 05 20:33:32 <DocScrutinizer05> I couldn't remember any election similar to the current one ;-)
Nov 05 20:33:56 <Woody14619> In fact, it looks like the new Council took effect as voting would have been stating.
Nov 05 20:34:21 <Woody14619> Instead of waiting until after vote would have been done...  which is what I was told happeened. :P
Nov 05 20:35:51 <DocScrutinizer05> makes sense and in line with what I recently posted
Nov 05 20:36:09 <DocScrutinizer05> voting being virtual and of 0.0s duration
Nov 05 20:36:44 <DocScrutinizer05> which again gave me flames of fools bitching about fake votes and other bullshit
Nov 05 20:37:08 <DocScrutinizer05> probably been e*_ again
Nov 05 20:37:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I already forgot
Nov 05 20:40:01 <DocScrutinizer05> I kinda feel silly to stick to the rules so much, but then it's those who like to read the rules in whatever bent way they like who accuse me of doing what in fact they do
Nov 05 20:41:06 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah eeew
Nov 05 20:41:48 * DocScrutinizer05 looks at a DVD+RW, remembers dentist session due tomorrow, and that there's need to bring an empty DVD for the x-ray
Nov 05 20:43:11 <DocScrutinizer05> figure, they charge me €€€ but don't have a DVD to hand me the x-ray .bmp
Nov 05 20:43:51 <DocScrutinizer05> "if you want those files, bring an empty DVD please"
Nov 05 20:44:29 <DocScrutinizer05> you'd think that pricetag would include media
Nov 05 20:44:34 <Woody14619> Should be glad you can get them at all... I requested them and was told they can't give them out. :P
Nov 05 20:44:46 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF?!
Nov 05 20:44:56 <Woody14619> Not even to the patient they're of.  Something about copyright laws here. :P
Nov 05 20:45:12 <DocScrutinizer05> that's plain mad
Nov 05 20:45:31 <Woody14619> Same thing that allows wedding photographers to deny couples to make copies of their own purchased pictures...
Nov 05 20:45:31 <DocScrutinizer05> what about *your* copyright of own pictures?
Nov 05 20:45:46 <Woody14619> US laws are not the most consumer friendly....
Nov 05 20:45:59 <DocScrutinizer05> US is the land of fools
Nov 05 20:46:03 <DocScrutinizer05> really
Nov 05 20:46:07 <DocScrutinizer05> in that regard for sure
Nov 05 20:47:11 <DocScrutinizer05> no other country would allow a grany to sue toshiba for not writing in the manual of they wave that it's not suited for drying alive cats
Nov 05 20:47:38 <DocScrutinizer05> s/they wave/their microwave/
Nov 05 20:47:39 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: no other country would allow a grany to sue toshiba for not writing in the manual of their microwave that it's not suited for drying alive cats
Nov 05 20:47:39 <GeneralAntilles> Woody14619, why wouldn't they own copyright?
Nov 05 20:47:49 <GeneralAntilles> Wedding photographers make their money off of copyright
Nov 05 20:48:01 <GeneralAntilles> If you're having trouble getting copies of your stuff from your dentist, change your dentist.
Nov 05 20:48:34 <Woody14619> Agreed... I'm saying that x-ray groups in the US are using the same regulation to deny giving out of x-ray materials.
Nov 05 20:49:12 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed, either they own the (c) then they simply said "FU we don't wanna give you those" basically, or they don't own then who else does?
Nov 05 20:49:23 <Woody14619> And no, photographers don't need copyright of everyone wedding photos...
Nov 05 20:49:32 <GeneralAntilles> But they get it
Nov 05 20:49:39 <GeneralAntilles> If you don't like the agreement, don't sign the contract. :P
Nov 05 20:49:45 <GeneralAntilles> Vote with your wallet
Nov 05 20:49:46 <Woody14619> They could, in fact, chage for their time, like most people.
Nov 05 20:50:10 <Woody14619> Agreed.. Which is why when I go to deal with that, I'll be dealing with one that doesn't have that in the contract.
Nov 05 20:50:23 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, they could say "costs you $$$ to make us give you those x-rays"
Nov 05 20:50:40 <DocScrutinizer05> but to say they mustn't give you is a lie
Nov 05 20:50:45 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, many places do, many other places will happily give you a copy in nearly whatever format you like.
Nov 05 20:50:50 <Woody14619> But reality is, if all groups that provide x-rays in a 100-mile radius of you do the same thing, your options are limited.
Nov 05 20:51:24 <GeneralAntilles> Well, health care is a special messed up case
Nov 05 20:51:28 <Woody14619> Agreed.
Nov 05 20:51:32 <GeneralAntilles> since it's not even vaguely a free market.
Nov 05 20:51:49 <DocScrutinizer05> my first concern would be my doctor lying at me
Nov 05 20:51:58 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer05, the doctor wont be the one telling you that.
Nov 05 20:51:59 * Woody14619 has actually gotten his x-rays to show to a 3rd party doctor "on loan" and scanned them in many cases. :)
Nov 05 20:52:07 <GeneralAntilles> That'd be the idiot clerk who makes $10/hour.
Nov 05 20:52:20 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, his desk chick will
Nov 05 20:52:53 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Nov 05 20:52:58 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: ^^^
Nov 05 20:53:15 <Woody14619> I at one point debated setting up a "medical service" that did nothing but allow you to tranfer your records to them so you could get access to everything in your file.
Nov 05 20:53:20 <DocScrutinizer05> for 10$/h you can't get better lies
Nov 05 20:53:50 <Woody14619> You see, one other law on the books here, is that you have the right to demand all records from a medical provider be transfered to another provider/service.
Nov 05 20:54:09 <DocScrutinizer05> hahahaha
Nov 05 20:54:29 <DocScrutinizer05> pretty reasonable that you yourself aren't any such 3rd party
Nov 05 20:54:33 <Woody14619> One could probably setup a business (given the right level of demand) to offer just that. :)
Nov 05 20:54:58 <Sysaxed> SO! I've tested out softpoweroff... and... can't tell anything about it... NOTHING HAPPENED. It went into offline mode and locked the screen, but when I unlocked it - everything was still on... all apps and stuff
Nov 05 20:55:09 <Sysaxed> LED glitched to a constant WHITE color
Nov 05 20:55:11 <DocScrutinizer05> well, indeed here in Germany we're about to implement that on a centralized basis
Nov 05 20:55:19 <Sysaxed> and when I've tried to get it back... well, it was strange
Nov 05 20:55:25 <DocScrutinizer05> with smartcard, encryption and all
Nov 05 20:55:30 <DocScrutinizer05> epic failso far
Nov 05 20:55:35 <Sysaxed> so I really don't know what happens after that softpoweroff feature
Nov 05 20:55:43 <Sysaxed> seems like fucking nothing useful
Nov 05 20:55:55 <DocScrutinizer05> hihi
Nov 05 20:56:14 <Sysaxed> about alarm clock - YES, it works. turn it off and you may be sure that it'll wake up to wake you up :)
Nov 05 20:56:19 <DocScrutinizer05> might be the reason why it's never been used
Nov 05 20:56:46 <DocScrutinizer05> great my memory didn't fail on that
Nov 05 20:56:52 <DocScrutinizer05> (wakeup)
Nov 05 20:59:17 <DocScrutinizer05> (softoff) smells like rotten legacy from a former concept to do suspend-to-ram or sth
Nov 05 20:59:55 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe some 770 owners know more about it
Nov 05 21:00:41 <Sysaxed> OH... suspend to RAM...
Nov 05 21:01:07 <Sysaxed> but it looked like SHIT, not like suspend-to-ram
Nov 05 21:01:13 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
Nov 05 21:01:32 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why I said 'rotten'
Nov 05 21:01:40 <Sysaxed> what's the point of suspending to ram, if display is off, all light are off, and even cpu is off cuz everything is sleeping?
Nov 05 21:01:46 <Sysaxed> lights*
Nov 05 21:01:46 <DocScrutinizer05> suspend-to-ram is worthless anyway on N900
Nov 05 21:02:30 <DocScrutinizer05> even worse, Sysaxed: device will wake up from susp2ram after a few seconds, awakened by modem
Nov 05 21:02:41 <Sysaxed> ...
Nov 05 21:03:13 <Sysaxed> well, if it was hibernation, then I could find some use for that
Nov 05 21:03:16 <DocScrutinizer05> since modem keeps reporting status (like signal level etc)
Nov 05 21:03:29 <Sysaxed> that's why it went to offline mode?
Nov 05 21:03:44 <DocScrutinizer05> might be
Nov 05 21:03:58 <Sysaxed> allright.. anyway - forget about it :D
Nov 05 21:04:06 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno how obsolete and rotten it is, even if it's actually susp2ram
Nov 05 21:04:14 <DocScrutinizer05> which is mere handwaving on my side
Nov 05 21:04:21 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah
Nov 05 21:05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> Sysaxed: syslog would leave you wiser
Nov 05 21:05:53 <DocScrutinizer05> about what softoff actually does
Nov 05 21:07:20 <DocScrutinizer05> if it's actually entering 'another runlevel' (we got upstart, so no real runlevels anyway), it might still be useful when tweaked to meet your needs
Nov 05 21:07:22 <Sysaxed> it doesn't work anyway... so
Nov 05 21:08:21 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, it's for sure no turnkey ready solution for anything
Nov 05 21:08:36 <DocScrutinizer05> it might open some options
Nov 05 21:08:43 <DocScrutinizer05> opportunieties
Nov 05 21:09:28 <Sysaxed> yeah, maybe
Nov 05 21:09:43 <Sysaxed> but I'm still looking for any way to control music when n900 is locked
Nov 05 21:10:03 <DocScrutinizer05> the method to trigger a state change seems well established and working, what you need is a meaningful state to change to
Nov 05 21:10:37 <DocScrutinizer05> it's too heavy for music control, definitely
Nov 05 21:11:23 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess what it does is sth like "sysctrl start softoff"
Nov 05 21:11:52 <DocScrutinizer05> via dbus though
Nov 05 21:12:25 <DocScrutinizer05> so basically if you neuter the sysctrl softoff state, the signal could trigger some dbus-scripting
Nov 05 21:12:35 <DocScrutinizer05> again just handwaving
Nov 05 21:13:13 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, dinner time folks, cya
Nov 05 21:13:34 <Sysaxed> no, i'm talking about ANY way to make it work
Nov 05 21:13:41 <Sysaxed> not about softoff thing
Nov 05 21:13:55 <Sysaxed> cuz I can't map any key to change music
Nov 05 21:15:13 <DocScrutinizer05> CSSU has Pali's patches to alsaped policies that should put wired headset button music-control back to feasible
Nov 05 21:16:41 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, I patched prolog code which enabling wired headset button
Nov 05 21:17:28 <Pali> Sysaxed, you can always read input from /dev/input* to match which key was pressed and then do what you want
Nov 05 21:17:52 <Pali> reading from /dev/input* working always (if screen is locked too)
Nov 05 21:18:20 <Pali> fix, it is /dev/input/*
Nov 05 21:18:30 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=799047#post799047
Nov 05 21:19:01 <DocScrutinizer05> this thread anyway
Nov 05 21:19:28 <Sysaxed> OH
Nov 05 21:19:30 <Sysaxed> nice one!
Nov 05 21:19:41 <Sysaxed> Pali, : 3
Nov 05 21:19:50 <Sysaxed> I don't have any headset
Nov 05 21:20:00 <Sysaxed> but I hope that I can use volume keys and camera key?
Nov 05 21:20:12 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, so what is state of multiboot eci headsets?
Nov 05 21:20:37 <Pali> Sysaxed, every input event is in /dev/input/*
Nov 05 21:20:44 <Pali> you need only parse that files
Nov 05 21:21:20 <DocScrutinizer05> multibutton?
Nov 05 21:21:35 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a onewire serial communication
Nov 05 21:22:05 <DocScrutinizer05> in theory it *might* be feasible with N900 hw
Nov 05 21:23:00 <DocScrutinizer05> with the proper realtime kernel drivers to read/write the right GPIO and convert serial to/from bytes
Nov 05 21:23:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I seem to recall I even found some basic info about the data protocol used
Nov 05 21:24:37 <DocScrutinizer05> somebody welknown here in this channel did some 'scope propes and snapshots and published them
Nov 05 21:25:14 <DocScrutinizer05> alas I forgot who, and I'm too hungry and in a hurry to find out who's been the hero or where have been those pictures
Nov 05 21:26:41 <Sysaxed> Pali, any clue on how to use these files? I've tried using cat and it worked, but it gave me some garbage.
Nov 05 21:27:16 <Pali> Sysaxed, you need to write some daemon in C
Nov 05 21:27:37 <Pali> there is structure for data in that file
Nov 05 21:27:47 <Sysaxed> damn
Nov 05 21:27:58 <Sysaxed> any pythong bindings for that?
Nov 05 21:28:01 <Sysaxed> python*
Nov 05 21:28:11 <DocScrutinizer05> reading dev/input7* isn't trivial, at least from shell
Nov 05 21:28:24 <Pali> find C structure of data
Nov 05 21:28:35 <Pali> and that you can write code in any language
Nov 05 21:28:52 <Pali> (you need to know type of data, size, ...)
Nov 05 21:29:44 <Pali> Sysaxed, use program evkey from bootmenu
Nov 05 21:29:56 <Pali> it print keycode to stdout of each pressed key
Nov 05 21:30:41 <Sysaxed> !!!!
Nov 05 21:30:44 <Pali> see https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/bootmenu/src/evkey.c?root=bootmenu&view=markup
Nov 05 21:30:44 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: you're awesome
Nov 05 21:30:47 <Sysaxed> for powerbutton too??
Nov 05 21:30:50 <Pali> yes
Nov 05 21:30:56 <Sysaxed> FUCK YEAH.
Nov 05 21:31:19 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: but wouldn't it eat away data from any other process listening concurrently?
Nov 05 21:31:34 <Pali> do not know
Nov 05 21:31:44 <Pali> it is used in bootmenu
Nov 05 21:31:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm afraid it would
Nov 05 21:32:25 <Pali> then you can use Xevent
Nov 05 21:32:38 <DocScrutinizer05> even if you could open /dev/input/* several times concurrently, I guess only one of the reading processes will "catch the byte"
Nov 05 21:32:47 <Pali> you can also get keys from X (not directly /dev/input/)
Nov 05 21:33:05 <Pali> I will try to find if I have some example program
Nov 05 21:33:08 <DocScrutinizer05> probably better
Nov 05 21:33:29 <nox-> xev?
Nov 05 21:33:40 <Pali> xev is ok
Nov 05 21:33:42 <DocScrutinizer05> o/
Nov 05 21:33:51 <Pali> but you need to find needed section :-)
Nov 05 21:33:55 <DocScrutinizer05> bbl
Nov 05 21:34:01 <nox-> bye doc
Nov 05 21:35:07 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, no I can ctrl+c process "cat /dev/input/<keyborad_id>"
Nov 05 21:35:37 <DocScrutinizer05> every time?
Nov 05 21:35:45 <Sysaxed> yes
Nov 05 21:35:51 <Sysaxed> sometimes it fucks up xterm
Nov 05 21:36:12 <Sysaxed> so what is the best way? Should I try xev?
Nov 05 21:36:12 <DocScrutinizer05> well, then it's working in a different way than other /dev/* devices
Nov 05 21:36:16 <Pali> and I'm using (on desktop) program evrouter
Nov 05 21:36:37 <Pali> evrouter reading from all files /dev/input/* and doing some operations
Nov 05 21:36:40 <Pali> always
Nov 05 21:37:01 <Pali> and you can see that I'm still able to write to IRC :-)
Nov 05 21:37:48 <Sysaxed> xev opens up a window
Nov 05 21:37:52 <Sysaxed> which is not something I need
Nov 05 21:38:05 <Pali> xev not working on maemo due some window manager bug
Nov 05 21:38:11 <Sysaxed> it works
Nov 05 21:38:18 <Pali> there is fix somewhere on bugzilla
Nov 05 21:38:24 <Pali> so it is fixed :-)
Nov 05 21:38:38 <Pali> Sysaxed, try to compile evrouter on maemo and configure it for your actions
Nov 05 21:47:26 <Sysaxed> Pali, isn't it possible to use xbindkeys for that? :O
Nov 05 21:47:44 <Pali> try
Nov 05 21:47:55 <Pali> I do not know all existing programs...
Nov 05 21:48:11 <Pali> but each X program should work on Maemo
Nov 05 21:48:23 <Pali> because we have true linux with Xserver :-)
Nov 05 21:48:41 <DocScrutinizer51> that's why maemo is linux, and android isn't
Nov 05 21:49:01 <Sysaxed> yeah, I know
Nov 05 21:49:23 <Sysaxed> I'm just worried about nokia programmers eating key events like power key and others..
Nov 05 21:49:36 <DocScrutinizer51> nah
Nov 05 21:49:49 <Pali> power key is different input file
Nov 05 21:50:00 <DocScrutinizer51> yup
Nov 05 21:50:08 <Pali> keyboard is different
Nov 05 21:50:13 <Sysaxed> volume keys?
Nov 05 21:50:16 <Sysaxed> lock switch?
Nov 05 21:50:20 <Pali> volume are on keyborad
Nov 05 21:50:32 <Pali> lock swihch is GPIO key
Nov 05 21:50:35 <DocScrutinizer51> F7 F8 iirc
Nov 05 21:51:05 <Pali> and in maemo kernel is missing gpio input key driver
Nov 05 21:51:06 <Sysaxed> GPIO?
Nov 05 21:51:14 <Sysaxed> okay.. camera key?
Nov 05 21:51:16 <Pali> so gpio does not generate any standard input event
Nov 05 21:51:28 <Pali> camera? good question, I do not know
Nov 05 21:51:35 <Pali> but it is not part of keyborad
Nov 05 21:51:48 <Sysaxed> dang it
Nov 05 21:51:50 <Pali> I was not able to add camera button support to uboot...
Nov 05 21:52:02 <Sysaxed> but there are some apps
Nov 05 21:52:13 <Sysaxed> like shortcutd
Nov 05 21:52:18 <Pali> DocScrutinizer51, how is camera keypress generated?
Nov 05 21:52:45 <SpeedEvil> it's just on a gpio
Nov 05 21:52:45 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry dunno
Nov 05 21:52:47 <Pali> gpio? or some device on i2c?
Nov 05 21:52:47 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
Nov 05 21:53:00 <DocScrutinizer51> gpio
Nov 05 21:53:08 <Pali> ok
Nov 05 21:53:43 <Sysaxed> gpio? so how the fuck does shortcutd work?
Nov 05 21:54:01 <DocScrutinizer51> dbus?
Nov 05 21:54:13 <Sysaxed> oh
Nov 05 21:54:15 <Sysaxed> probably
Nov 05 21:59:52 <Sysaxed> DocScrutinizer05, but these dbus messages are not generated when device is locked, right?
Nov 05 22:00:28 <DocScrutinizer51> dunno
Nov 05 22:00:33 <SpeedEvil> gpio works fine with device locked
Nov 05 22:01:45 <DocScrutinizer51> gpio notavailable, says pali
Nov 05 22:02:06 <Pali> you can cat gpio from /sys/sometinh
Nov 05 22:02:09 <Pali> *something
Nov 05 22:02:17 <Pali> but I do not know full path
Nov 05 22:02:42 <Pali> HAL sending all gpio state too
Nov 05 22:03:14 <Pali> (in maemo is Nokia patched HAL with special gpio addon which reading Nokia specified /sys/ gpio interface)
Nov 05 22:03:25 <Sysaxed> damn, all I want to do is make volume up key to trigger song change
Nov 05 22:03:56 <Pali> volume key is grabbed by hildon-something
Nov 05 22:04:07 <Pali> so reading Xevent will not work
Nov 05 22:04:44 <Pali> but there is some Xatom for getting that volume key in some application
Nov 05 22:04:54 <Pali> openmediaplayer has that implemented
Nov 05 22:05:20 <Sysaxed> as far as I remember there was API for that
Nov 05 22:05:50 <Pali> with that X atom property you will tell hildon-something or window manager? to tell application volume key event
Nov 05 22:07:52 <Sysaxed> :\
Nov 05 22:09:18 <DocScrutinizer51> xchat does it
Nov 05 22:09:26 <DocScrutinizer51> xterm does it
Nov 05 22:09:53 <DocScrutinizer51> microb too
Nov 05 22:10:17 <DocScrutinizer51> xchat actually best testbed
Nov 05 22:10:21 <Sysaxed> DocScrutinizer05, when they're focused
Nov 05 22:11:08 <Pali> try here: http://doc.qt.digia.com/qt-maemo/index.html
Nov 05 22:12:08 <DocScrutinizer51> Sysaxed: good point
Nov 05 22:13:14 <DocScrutinizer51> Sysaxed: but actually you don't want your media player to catch volume keys unconditionally
Nov 05 22:13:41 <Sysaxed> DocScrutinizer05, well, first of all I want to catch these events anyway
Nov 05 22:13:51 <Sysaxed> even if it's not focused, even if device is locked
Nov 05 22:14:07 <Sysaxed> and then I'll find a way to get rid of unwanted cases
Nov 05 22:14:37 <DocScrutinizer51> device locked doesn't mean last upfront app losing focus
Nov 05 22:15:10 <Sysaxed> what if "swipe to unlock" shit comes up?
Nov 05 22:15:17 <DocScrutinizer51> Sysaxed: you'll run a deadend street with that approach
Nov 05 22:16:27 <Sysaxed> why?
Nov 05 22:16:48 <DocScrutinizer51> your method you picked to catch vol unconditionally might not offer any method to 'get rid of unwted cases'
Nov 05 22:17:14 <DocScrutinizer51> unwanted*
Nov 05 22:17:14 <Sysaxed> DocScrutinizer05, for example "if device is not locked - change song. otherwise do nothing"
Nov 05 22:17:25 <Sysaxed> oops
Nov 05 22:17:29 <Sysaxed> if device is locked - change song
Nov 05 22:17:41 <DocScrutinizer51> do nothing doesn't mean any other app receives the event
Nov 05 22:17:57 <Sysaxed> good point
Nov 05 22:18:32 <Sysaxed> so, still I don't understand what is the best way to do that
Nov 05 22:19:02 <Pali> Sysaxed, here is qt example for volume keys: http://doc.qt.digia.com/qt-maemo/maemo5-zoom.html
Nov 05 22:19:03 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd check dbus first
Nov 05 22:19:25 <Pali> _HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM
Nov 05 22:19:43 <Pali> and then mapped to Key_F7 and Key_F8
Nov 05 22:20:25 <Sysaxed> The zoom keys are mapped to F7 and F8 by default.
Nov 05 22:20:29 <Sysaxed> wtf, lol
Nov 05 22:20:48 <Sysaxed> thank you guys, you are awesome
Nov 05 22:20:48 <MrPingu> hmm, is the google search in MicroB-hardcoded?
Nov 05 22:20:51 <DocScrutinizer51> toldya
Nov 05 22:21:17 <Sysaxed> so, gonna go get some food now
Nov 05 22:21:33 <Sysaxed> and then maybe I'll go to bed...
Nov 05 22:21:34 * DocScrutinizer51 just finished eating
Nov 05 22:21:42 <Sysaxed> but if I'll come with a solution I'll let ya know
Nov 05 22:23:08 <Pali> unsigned long val = 1; Atom atom = XInternAtom(display, "_HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM", False); XChangeProperty (display, winid, atom, XA_INTEGER, 32, PropModeReplace, &val, 1);
Nov 05 22:23:50 <Pali> ^^^ this C code enable zoom/volume keys for window winid on X display
Nov 05 22:24:16 <Pali> Sysaxed, see ^
Nov 05 22:30:50 <DocScrutinizer51> I wrap my head around linux input stuf from /dev/input and modmap_etc til X everyother year, and when I reach the end of that chain I already forgot about how start works :-/
Nov 05 22:31:56 <DocScrutinizer51> the whole input is incredible layer hell
Nov 05 22:31:59 <SpeedEvil> :-) 
Nov 05 22:33:02 <DocScrutinizer51> X didn't exactly help
Nov 05 22:34:28 <DocScrutinizer51> next time I should draw a nice diagram with layered blocks to visualize who's talking what to whom
Nov 05 23:04:32 <merlin1991> setting up windows server 2008 in kvm with ide drivers is a pain
Nov 05 23:17:05 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
Nov 05 23:17:56 <Sysaxed> DocScrutinizer05, Pali it's not going to work
Nov 05 23:18:21 <Sysaxed> sudo cat /dev/input/keypad
Nov 05 23:18:28 <Sysaxed> now press volume keys - you'll see some garbage
Nov 05 23:18:44 <Sysaxed> if you lock the screen - nothing is going to be displayed
Nov 05 23:19:16 <Pali> so then mce eating keys?
Nov 05 23:19:24 <Sysaxed> looks like
Nov 05 23:19:58 <DocScrutinizer51> hey, my volume keys work (for volume) when device locked, afaik
Nov 05 23:20:31 <Sysaxed> it works if you get to the "swipe to unlock" screen
Nov 05 23:20:38 <Sysaxed> but if the display is off - it's not working
Nov 05 23:20:40 <DocScrutinizer51> no
Nov 05 23:21:31 <Sysaxed> /dev/input/pwrbutton works
Nov 05 23:21:43 <Sysaxed> dunno if it's because it opens up a "swipe to unlock" screen or why
Nov 05 23:21:48 <DocScrutinizer51> playing music with stock mediaplayer, device in holser, locked. I get volume control working
Nov 05 23:22:29 <Sysaxed> how...
Nov 05 23:22:41 <Sysaxed> media player is closed source, right?
Nov 05 23:22:43 <DocScrutinizer51> I think it's an mce.ini setting
Nov 05 23:23:17 <Sysaxed> DocScrutinizer05, there's nothing in mce.ini about it
Nov 05 23:25:03 <Sysaxed> what is a "home key" ?
Nov 05 23:27:31 <DocScrutinizer05> a N8x0 thing
Nov 05 23:27:41 <Sysaxed> why it's in mce of n900??
Nov 05 23:27:56 <DocScrutinizer05> mce.ini is full of legacy
Nov 05 23:28:07 <DocScrutinizer05> it's same file for all devices
Nov 05 23:28:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I cleaned mine up ;-D
Nov 05 23:30:24 <Sysaxed> so, as far as I can see, the only way to map some commands to a key is to use a power button
Nov 05 23:31:21 <Sysaxed> it's a pity that all these buttons cannot be used
Nov 05 23:32:01 <Sysaxed> or maybe they can? with some kind of mce hack
Nov 05 23:32:33 <Sysaxed> alright, good night everybody!
Nov 05 23:38:54 <DocScrutinizer05> # 2 - leave keypad interrupts on even after blanking
Nov 05 23:38:55 <DocScrutinizer05> #     (used to support pass-through of +/-)
Nov 05 23:39:04 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, he's gone
Nov 06 02:01:24 <SpeedEvil> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/11/06/0128255/nokia-suspends-its-free-developer-program :-\ 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 06 02:59:58 2012