**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 08 03:00:02 2012
Nov 08 04:18:04 <Addison> Heya everyone.
Nov 08 04:22:00 <Addison> Is there anyone here that knows if the Tinyfugue build for Maemo has UTF-8 support?
Nov 08 06:39:13 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
Nov 08 08:06:30 <eyaler> ~ask i have a question about using MADDE, anybody here uses it?
Nov 08 08:06:30 <infobot> Nope, eyaler! I won't ask "i have a question about using MADDE, anybody here uses it"
Nov 08 08:17:22 <eyaler> ~ask i need help using MADDE, i'm trying to install a package and i get an error "ld returned 1 exit status"
Nov 08 08:17:23 <infobot> Nope, eyaler! I won't ask "i need help using MADDE, i'm trying to install a package and i get an error "ld returned 1 exit status""
Nov 08 08:59:49 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 08 09:19:30 <teotwaki> morning Jaffa
Nov 08 09:30:52 <eyaler> anybody is using MADDE?
Nov 08 09:51:24 <Pali> eyaler, hi, I'm using madde
Nov 08 09:52:03 <eyaler> great..
Nov 08 09:52:19 <eyaler> so, i have a quesiton did u mange to work with opencv?
Nov 08 09:52:28 <eyaler> on which OS are u working on?
Nov 08 09:52:32 <teotwaki> ~spelling
Nov 08 09:52:33 <infobot> spelling is probably best dealt with in a qualitative sense.  "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." as Andrew Johnson pointed out.  Spelling also doesn't make any difference on IRC.
Nov 08 09:52:47 <teotwaki> infobot: bitch
Nov 08 09:52:49 <infobot> [bitch] a female dog . an iz a bad word if used wrongly . dont say dat ok
Nov 08 09:53:00 <teotwaki> ~lart infobot 
Nov 08 09:53:01 * infobot does a little 'renice 20 -u teotwaki'
Nov 08 09:53:18 <teotwaki> I got pwned by infobot :(
Nov 08 09:53:37 <eyaler> Pali, are u still here?
Nov 08 09:53:59 <eyaler> teotwaki, please stop.. thank you
Nov 08 09:54:27 <Pali> I did not tried to compile opencv
Nov 08 09:54:41 <Pali> but madde has problem with pkg-config and autotools
Nov 08 09:54:46 <eyaler> on which OS are u working?
Nov 08 09:54:49 <Pali> linux
Nov 08 09:54:57 <teotwaki> eyaler: don't tell me what to do :)
Nov 08 09:55:22 <eyaler> mmm.. i'm working on windows 7... and i have annoying problem..
Nov 08 09:56:06 <eyaler> i can work with opencv APIs but i cant work with the highgui API (aka saveImage...) 
Nov 08 09:56:33 <eyaler> who can i adress any question about this subject? does nokia still support it?
Nov 08 09:57:23 <teotwaki> Has Nokia ever supported OpenCV?
Nov 08 09:57:28 <teotwaki> I thought it was an Intel project?
Nov 08 09:57:55 <eyaler> yes it is.. my question is does nokia still support MADDE?
Nov 08 09:58:59 <teotwaki> Nokia doesn't support anything Maemo related anymore, as far as I can tell.
Nov 08 10:02:13 <user__> hello
Nov 08 10:02:37 <eyaler> yes, you are probebly right dear teotwaki.. :-(
Nov 08 10:02:42 <eyaler> hello user_
Nov 08 10:03:47 <eyaler> but who can i ask question about it.. ?
Nov 08 10:03:48 <teotwaki> eyaler: even if they do say they support it, I'd trust that support about as far as I can throw a fridge.
Nov 08 10:04:29 <eyaler> hey, maybe ur the Hulk.. he can throw a fridge... 
Nov 08 10:06:07 <user__> i accidentally powered off my device while copying a file. now i can't delete that file. is there a way rto remove that broken file?
Nov 08 10:06:57 <vi__> What device?
Nov 08 10:07:02 <user__> n900
Nov 08 10:07:11 <vi__> xterm, as root, rm <your file>
Nov 08 10:07:31 <vi__> Check this out:
Nov 08 10:07:33 <vi__> http://www.amazon.com/BoxWave-Nokia-N900-AluArmor-Jacket/dp/B003CJ4ZFM
Nov 08 10:07:34 <user__> i tried. it shows that is a system file.
Nov 08 10:07:47 <vi__> user__: dafuq?
Nov 08 10:07:50 <Cor-Ai> sudo rm -f file
Nov 08 10:07:56 <Cor-Ai> can work
Nov 08 10:08:10 <vi__> sudo rm -f <yourfile> as root?
Nov 08 10:08:17 <vi__> Who would root sudo?
Nov 08 10:08:37 <vi__> kerio: ping
Nov 08 10:08:46 <Cor-Ai> well.. i meant without root first!
Nov 08 10:08:52 <Cor-Ai> :p
Nov 08 10:09:04 <Cor-Ai> old habit of typing sudo first
Nov 08 10:09:20 <vi__> sudo...
Nov 08 10:09:26 <vi__> ewwrrgh.
Nov 08 10:09:40 <vi__> boontu is that way -->
Nov 08 10:10:03 <Cor-Ai> haha im so clumsy that i destroy stuff if im root..
Nov 08 10:10:25 <Cor-Ai> and no, its that way <--
Nov 08 10:11:39 <vi__> But, if boontus over there...that means...OH SHIT.
Nov 08 10:11:41 <vi__> BRB
Nov 08 10:12:29 <vi__> amazon.com price:$27
Nov 08 10:12:34 <user__> thanks a lot. but now i cant delete the folde that file contained. t shos that folder is read only!
Nov 08 10:12:41 <vi__> amazon.co.uk price:£27
Nov 08 10:13:23 <vi__> It is cheaper to order from america and have shipped to the UK than from the UK.
Nov 08 10:13:26 <vi__> wtf amazon.
Nov 08 10:14:22 <teotwaki> vi__: try living in Australia for kicks.
Nov 08 10:14:58 <jon_y> or New Zealand
Nov 08 10:15:10 <SUMEDHE5DMS> Hello. i can't delete a folder. i used xterm also. it shows that is "Read Only". how can i delete it friends?
Nov 08 10:16:18 <jon_y> vi__: agreed, sudo su - :)
Nov 08 10:18:16 <vi__> SUMEDHE5DMS: become root
Nov 08 10:18:29 <vi__> SUMEDHE5DMS: rm -r ./<the name of your folder>
Nov 08 10:18:55 <vi__> 60cents to the £
Nov 08 10:19:31 <Cor-Ai> my eyes :(  stop hilighting him! 
Nov 08 10:19:38 <pcfe> are those the odds you take WRT the user forgetting the dot? ;-P
Nov 08 10:30:39 <vi__> pcfe: Yes!
Nov 08 10:32:02 <pcfe> vi__: :) I like your humor
Nov 08 10:34:34 <jon_y> with newer gnu coreutils, rm -rf / will produce a warning
Nov 08 10:34:41 <jon_y> no idea about busybox though
Nov 08 11:06:11 <DocScrutinizer51> ~spell u
Nov 08 11:06:13 <infobot> 'u' may be spelled correctly
Nov 08 11:06:28 <DocScrutinizer51> infobot: useless
Nov 08 11:06:29 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer51 in the darkest corner of the room. :(
Nov 08 11:07:46 <DocScrutinizer51> teotwaki: you might try ~die as well. I mustn't since she takes it literally when I tell her so
Nov 08 11:09:54 <DocScrutinizer51> teotwaki: or you do the turing test on her, which she still doesn't stand
Nov 08 11:10:06 <DocScrutinizer51> ~lart herself
Nov 08 11:10:08 * infobot hits herself with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha
Nov 08 11:10:21 <eyaler> i will try again.. anybody here is using MADDE under Windows 7 OS?? 
Nov 08 11:11:17 <DocScrutinizer51> odds are almost all devels are on linux. eyaler 
Nov 08 11:11:51 <eyaler> yes, so i am a lonely ranger here.. but, maybe there is one.. 
Nov 08 11:12:26 <DocScrutinizer51> as, I mean, they're all developing for a linux target, and those devels usually deprecate windows
Nov 08 11:13:01 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, keep on asking
Nov 08 11:13:15 <DocScrutinizer51> one or two others might share your fate
Nov 08 11:14:07 <DocScrutinizer51> or have tried to, at least
Nov 08 11:14:17 <jon_y> eyaler: madde on Win7?
Nov 08 11:14:29 <jon_y> isn't that the usbnet thing on the phone?
Nov 08 11:14:38 <eyaler> jon_y: yes
Nov 08 11:14:52 <eyaler> MADDE on windows 7...
Nov 08 11:15:06 <jon_y> arm cross compiler?
Nov 08 11:15:33 <eyaler> yes...
Nov 08 11:15:38 <DocScrutinizer51> ~madde
Nov 08 11:15:45 <DocScrutinizer51> hmmmm
Nov 08 11:16:03 <eyaler> i write my code on QT in windows 7 OS, and compile directly to the Nokia N900..
Nov 08 11:16:14 <jon_y> wouldn't it be easier to do it on Linux?
Nov 08 11:16:26 <eyaler> yes it would.. 
Nov 08 11:16:38 <jon_y> or a VM
Nov 08 11:16:46 <eyaler> but it for my University project and my teacher wants it to work on windows 
Nov 08 11:16:59 <eyaler> yes, also on VM it will be easier.. 
Nov 08 11:17:21 <jon_y> ok, do one for windows and use the VM for the n900
Nov 08 11:17:39 <jon_y> sounds simple enough
Nov 08 11:18:11 <eyaler> well, i thought about going that direction but i mange to do some stuff in windwos
Nov 08 11:18:48 <eyaler> so far i mange to add debuging ability to QT on the Nokia and add opencv the problem is that i can make highgui API to work..
Nov 08 11:19:26 <jon_y> sorry, no idea bout those
Nov 08 11:19:34 <eyaler> i mange to open IplImage object but i cant use cvSaveImage
Nov 08 11:19:55 <eyaler> those are good ideas.. 
Nov 08 11:27:52 <teotwaki> "manage"
Nov 08 11:27:59 <teotwaki> "mange" is "eat" in French.
Nov 08 11:46:51 <Hurrian> Does anyone notice that the N900 can power more demanding headphones thru the jack?
Nov 08 11:47:09 <Hurrian> My N9 simply cannot power any of my kit.
Nov 08 11:47:22 <Hurrian> (Without an amplifier, of course.)
Nov 08 11:48:25 <vi__> Hurrian: wut
Nov 08 11:49:29 <Hurrian> vi__, simple as this: Insert headphone jack into N900, music can play thru them. Insert into N9, no output.
Nov 08 11:50:37 <Hurrian> It's the same with my iPod Nano 6th gen - no output, so I assume the N900 can somehow power higher-impedance headphones.
Nov 08 11:52:54 <vi__> or...
Nov 08 11:52:58 <vi__> DRM HEADPHONES!
Nov 08 11:53:27 <Hurrian> >working on the N900, not on the N9 and iPod
Nov 08 11:53:43 <Hurrian> That's some DRM scheme there, exactly what I'd expect from DRM schemes ;)
Nov 08 12:14:29 <flux> I have the same with my car stereo regarding N9 and N900
Nov 08 12:14:37 <flux> haven't tried fixing it with a possibly new connector or a resistor
Nov 08 12:17:36 <Hurrian> flux, a portable amp should do it.
Nov 08 12:19:24 <Hurrian> I tried it with a friend's FiiO E7 on an iPhone which couldn't otherwise power my HD595.
Nov 08 12:19:40 <Hurrian> the downside though is that you need to carry around an amp, which needs a separate battery.
Nov 08 12:20:02 <flux> I'm seriously not having a portable amp to deal with line output..
Nov 08 12:20:25 <flux> it's not about being able, it's about it not eving noticing that there's a cable plugged in
Nov 08 12:20:38 <flux> ..probably due to too low resistance or something
Nov 08 12:21:01 <Hurrian> you mean too /high/ resistance.
Nov 08 12:21:59 <Hurrian> Even my desktop's built in audio struggles to drive the HD595. A dedicated amp really comes in handy for high-impedance stuff.
Nov 08 12:22:52 <Hurrian> On a side note, one would wonder why a car audio's line in has high impedance - it does have it's own power supply
Nov 08 12:23:22 <SpeedEvil> to avoid damage from shorts
Nov 08 12:25:43 <vi__> just received an n900
Nov 08 12:25:46 <vi__> opened it up.
Nov 08 12:25:48 <vi__> WTF
Nov 08 12:26:01 <vi__> has this thing been used as an air filter during the paris dakar rally?
Nov 08 12:27:36 <SpeedEvil> :-\ 
Nov 08 12:27:43 <SpeedEvil> does it work?
Nov 08 12:27:57 <vi__> it powers up.
Nov 08 12:30:24 <vi__> headset jack seems a bit...loose.
Nov 08 12:30:26 <Hurrian> vi__, time for a can of air?
Nov 08 12:30:41 <vi__> Hurrian: I am at work, we have a compressor!
Nov 08 12:30:46 <DocScrutinizer51> time for a retour
Nov 08 12:31:00 <Hurrian> vi__, loose as in it wiggles or it doesn't hold in a 3.5mm well?
Nov 08 12:31:15 <SpeedEvil> careful!
Nov 08 12:31:21 <vi__> Hurrian: the 3.5mm jack seems to move 0.5mm sided to side.
Nov 08 12:31:25 <Hurrian> either way, that'd mean it's a really worn out device
Nov 08 12:31:26 <SpeedEvil> don't compressed air the mic
Nov 08 12:31:45 <vi__> I am not sure if it is the connector or the space the connector sits in.
Nov 08 12:31:46 <SpeedEvil> the jack is not soldered to the board IIRC
Nov 08 12:31:54 <SpeedEvil> it's springs
Nov 08 12:32:08 <vi__> SpeedEvil: no way, I am going to blast those little 0602 right off the board.
Nov 08 12:32:14 <vi__> SpeedEvil: Yeah.
Nov 08 12:32:16 <flux> hurrian, well, how does one fail to detect too high resistance compared to not having a wire at all?
Nov 08 12:32:18 <vi__> That is what I meant.
Nov 08 12:32:22 <SpeedEvil> the microphone
Nov 08 12:32:33 <vi__> flux: With a multimeter that goes that high!
Nov 08 12:33:38 <flux> hurrian, I mean, it probably is able to detect that there is no wire, and then it detects that there's some resistance.. if there's high resistance, it's even further away from the 'no connection' state..
Nov 08 12:34:01 <flux> actually no :). I'm thinking this backwards, right?
Nov 08 12:34:15 <flux> infinite resistance would be the no wire-case
Nov 08 12:34:34 <flux> but I can lower that resistance by connecting the signal/gnd through a resistor
Nov 08 12:37:16 <vi__> now is time to try the internal battery->cap mod!
Nov 08 12:37:28 <DocScrutinizer51> vi__: Hurrian: sth along not working*at all* with 3pin maybe?
Nov 08 12:38:07 <vi__> I have never seen a phone full of so much pubes and crap.
Nov 08 12:38:34 <Hurrian> DocScrutinizer51, these aren't TRRS connectors
Nov 08 12:39:30 <Hurrian> vi__, ugh, yuck. Dust getting into the N900 is bad enough, how does that stuff get in there?
Nov 08 12:39:37 <Hurrian> I don't even want to think about it.
Nov 08 12:39:51 <Hurrian> I'd strip the case components down, and give them a good dunk.
Nov 08 12:39:59 <DocScrutinizer51> Hurrian: check how devices distinguish headset, headphone,, AV
Nov 08 12:40:41 <vi__> wtf
Nov 08 12:40:52 <vi__> it has no aerials.
Nov 08 12:41:01 <DocScrutinizer51> the 'usualm jack is 4pin
Nov 08 12:41:56 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry for typos, eating burger and N900 SUCKS for typing on table
Nov 08 12:43:00 <DocScrutinizer51> vi__: Hurrian: the common 3pin jack shorts mic pin to GND
Nov 08 12:44:35 <DocScrutinizer51> but actually N9 might have low output impedance and thus too low voltage on high impedance inputs like line-in
Nov 08 12:47:09 <Hurrian> That's what I suspect. I'll cut up a cable and measure voltages on a pair of crappy flight earphones.
Nov 08 12:48:42 <DocScrutinizer51> Hurrian: for car audio a separation transformer 'DI-box' is highly recommended anyway. You could use a step-up 1:1p transformer
Nov 08 12:48:57 <DocScrutinizer51> 1:10
Nov 08 12:50:25 <DocScrutinizer51> on low impedance headphones, max 'allowable' voltage is some 100mV, for line in you want some 2V
Nov 08 12:52:32 <DocScrutinizer51> if you use a plug with 50R resistor from 3rd contact to GND/4th, odds are the device will switch to AV mode and ramp up voltage on 1. + 2. pin (L + R) to line level
Nov 08 12:55:22 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway, it's all up to the question: is sound way too silent, or is there no sound at all?
Nov 08 12:59:59 <Hurrian> There is no sound at all.
Nov 08 13:30:46 <vi__> how do I fix the vibrate motor?
Nov 08 13:30:55 <vi__> it 'feels' wonky and rough.
Nov 08 13:42:45 <vi_> AARRRRGH.
Nov 08 13:42:56 <vi_> My PC just bluescreened MID FLASHING.
Nov 08 13:45:23 <vi_> USB device found found at bus bus-0, device address \\.\libusb0-0001--0x0421-0x01c8.
Nov 08 13:45:27 <vi_> Raw data transfer EP found at EP2.
Nov 08 13:45:29 <vi_> [init        20 %   32768 /  255947 kB     0 kB/s]
Nov 08 13:45:32 <vi_> c:\Program Files\maemo\flasher-3.5>
Nov 08 13:45:33 <vi_> what the hell is this?
Nov 08 13:45:44 <vi_> The first time I have had an n900 that will not flash!
Nov 08 13:46:40 <Pali> vi_, use linux
Nov 08 13:47:17 <Pali> window userspace usb access via device filtering is really bad
Nov 08 13:47:32 <vi_> but it has worked like 20 times before.
Nov 08 13:47:55 <vi_> It starts to flash, then goes to the 5 dots!
Nov 08 13:48:18 <Pali> you are lucky that your windows worked 20 times!
Nov 08 13:48:24 <vi_> hah!
Nov 08 13:52:39 <vi_> funny thing is, I can flash the rootfs.
Nov 08 13:52:46 <vi_> Just not the emmc.
Nov 08 13:53:55 <Eyaler> hello anybody using MADDE?
Nov 08 13:59:49 <vi_> so I can flash rootfs and it will boot up.
Nov 08 14:00:02 <vi_> But I cannot flash emmc, it just tries to boot up!
Nov 08 14:01:40 <Pali> Eyaler, rather use scratchbox
Nov 08 14:02:20 <Pali> madde is only semiworking and without gnu utils & debhelper on debian not very usable...
Nov 08 14:20:33 <vi_> DocScrutinizer51: ping
Nov 08 14:22:15 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_: tmp pong
Nov 08 14:23:27 <vi_> can you suggest a reason why a n900 would be able to flash rootfs but fail on emmc?
Nov 08 14:24:14 <vi_> As in it starts to flash emmc, gets to 20% of the first part then just stops.  The n900 then attempts to boot.
Nov 08 14:24:24 <DocScrutinizer51> for flashing eMMC you need a semi-sane rootfs
Nov 08 14:24:33 <vi_> Yup
Nov 08 14:24:44 <vi_> So I have flashed rootfs.  It went through fine.
Nov 08 14:26:27 <vi_> when I attempt emmc it just fails.
Nov 08 14:26:32 <vi_> I will paste the output.
Nov 08 14:28:21 <vi_> Image 'mmc', size 255947 kB
Nov 08 14:28:21 <vi_>         Version RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA
Nov 08 14:28:21 <vi_> USB device found found at bus bus-0, device address \\.\libusb0-0001--0x0421-0x0105.
Nov 08 14:28:24 <vi_> Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101
Nov 08 14:28:27 <vi_> NOLO version 1.4.14
Nov 08 14:28:29 <vi_> Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0
Nov 08 14:28:32 <vi_> Booting device into flash mode.
Nov 08 14:28:34 <vi_> Suitable USB device not found, waiting.
Nov 08 14:28:37 <vi_> USB device found found at bus bus-0, device address \\.\libusb0-0001--0x0421-0x01c8.
Nov 08 14:28:40 <vi_> Raw data transfer EP found at EP2.
Nov 08 14:28:42 <vi_> [init        20 %   32768 /  255947 kB     0 kB/s]
Nov 08 14:28:45 <vi_> oops
Nov 08 14:29:37 <vi_> well it shows that then starts to load 5 dots,
Nov 08 14:29:45 <vi_> then hangs.
Nov 08 14:31:32 <DocScrutinizer51> battery empty?
Nov 08 14:31:40 <vi_> no, battery full
Nov 08 14:32:14 <DocScrutinizer51> use better USB cable, better USB driver lib, other PC OS
Nov 08 14:32:39 <DocScrutinizer51> blacklist all possibly interfering modules
Nov 08 14:32:50 <vi_> what the actual fuck.
Nov 08 14:33:14 <vi_> I pretty much hosed the emmc when the a flash failed and caused my pc to bluescreen.
Nov 08 14:33:21 <DocScrutinizer51> the effect is not unknown
Nov 08 14:33:35 <vi_> The device booted but showed the 'no image' grey squares thing that you see with a hosed emmc.
Nov 08 14:33:49 <vi_> so I flashed rootfs again.
Nov 08 14:34:06 <vi_> then tried emmc.  It failed like the text I pasted above.
Nov 08 14:34:23 <DocScrutinizer51> ep
Nov 08 14:34:26 <vi_> Now I have switched the device on and the emmc contents are back!
Nov 08 14:34:27 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Nov 08 14:34:40 <jon_y> try a different usb port?
Nov 08 14:34:51 <vi_> jon_y: done that.
Nov 08 14:34:55 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Nov 08 14:35:06 <jon_y> some ports are really hubs
Nov 08 14:35:24 <jon_y> took me a day to figure out when flashing the N9 would mysteriously fail
Nov 08 14:35:38 <vi_> jon_y: I have tried the ports on the front and on the back of thePC.
Nov 08 14:35:52 <vi_> I have used this PC to flash another n900 some 20 times or so before.
Nov 08 14:35:54 <jon_y> luckily USB3 hubs are rare, so USB 3 ports are likely not hubs
Nov 08 14:36:14 <DocScrutinizer51> windows? uninstall pcsuite
Nov 08 14:36:31 <jon_y> "Now I have switched the device on and the emmc contents are back!" <- so is it fixed now?
Nov 08 14:36:38 <DocScrutinizer51> or better et, use linux ;)
Nov 08 14:36:43 <vi_> jon_y: I am not sure.
Nov 08 14:37:02 <vi_> for emmc to come back you need to transfer ~200mb of data.
Nov 08 14:37:13 <vi_> according to the flasher output it managed about 32mb.
Nov 08 14:37:43 <jon_y> I guess you could try it in Linux
Nov 08 14:37:51 <vi_> it seems it is a 2101.
Nov 08 14:38:01 <jon_y> knoppix, or a vm
Nov 08 14:39:05 <jon_y> I miss knoppix
Nov 08 14:39:06 <DocScrutinizer51> my guess: it didn't even start to flash emmc
Nov 08 14:39:42 <jon_y> these days, pretty much any end-user oriented distro comes with a bootable CD
Nov 08 14:42:23 <DocScrutinizer51> vi_: also check your emmc img for latest. the old on doesn't work with new rootfs
Nov 08 14:42:34 <DocScrutinizer51> old one*
Nov 08 14:42:56 <DocScrutinizer51> check md5sum!
Nov 08 14:43:15 <vi_> DocScrutinizer51: They are the last images released by no-workia
Nov 08 14:43:24 <DocScrutinizer51> users with flawed download reported dame problems
Nov 08 14:43:35 <vi_> I just took fresh copies from my backup stash as well.
Nov 08 14:43:52 <vi_> I have used these images loads of times.
Nov 08 14:44:44 <DocScrutinizer51> then finally nuke that redmond crap on your machine, get an OS instead for doing serious stuff
Nov 08 14:45:23 <DocScrutinizer51> bbl
Nov 08 14:46:10 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer51: but games!
Nov 08 14:46:19 <jon_y> games are serious business :)
Nov 08 14:46:35 <vi_> have you not heard?
Nov 08 14:46:39 <vi_> steam for linux!
Nov 08 14:46:48 <vi_> Half life 3 will be released on gentoo first!
Nov 08 14:46:50 <jon_y> not all games are on steam
Nov 08 14:47:16 <jon_y> d3d games everywhere :(
Nov 08 14:47:44 <vi_> good point.
Nov 08 14:47:55 <vi_> I do not think the source engine has an opengl mode.
Nov 08 14:48:21 <jon_y> my RTS game doesn't use source
Nov 08 14:48:51 <jon_y> I remember the old HL1 game, it has GL mode
Nov 08 14:49:03 <jon_y> looks about the same as D3D mode
Nov 08 14:49:27 <vi_> yes pre source had openl mode.
Nov 08 14:49:51 <jon_y> so when is team fortress coming? :)
Nov 08 14:50:35 <jon_y> I played the classic 1.5, would not touch the newer one without the ability to grenade spam
Nov 08 14:51:23 <vi_> u spam no skill gay noob.
Nov 08 14:53:19 <jon_y> vi_: no, spy grenade spam requires skill to be effective
Nov 08 14:53:30 <vi_> ok, it has to be the PC.
Nov 08 14:53:30 <jon_y> otherwise you'd be wasting grenades
Nov 08 14:53:53 <vi_> nade spam - don't wan to risk wasting nades.
Nov 08 14:53:54 <vi_> wut.
Nov 08 14:54:15 <jon_y> hallucination grenades is often lethal when spammed correctly
Nov 08 14:54:26 <vi_> I have never played TF so I cannot really comment.
Nov 08 14:55:07 <jon_y> everybody had more or less the same model in TF classic
Nov 08 14:55:44 <jon_y> class == gun you're holding
Nov 08 14:55:50 <jon_y> simple as that
Nov 08 15:17:43 <trx> does cssu stable have rotation issues?
Nov 08 15:18:52 <trx> every time i want to answer my phone, the UI is missing and visible only while rotating the phone and then it goes away
Nov 08 15:18:54 <trx> randomly
Nov 08 15:19:36 <trx> or should i abandon cssu?
Nov 08 15:19:45 <Lava_Croft> teamfortress on the halflife engine is like windows phone on harmattan hardware
Nov 08 15:23:02 <Lava_Croft> jon_y: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FVJ__rBFxk
Nov 08 16:06:32 <vi_> DocScrutinizer51: Figured it out.
Nov 08 16:06:43 <vi_> perhaps.
Nov 08 16:07:10 <vi_> I think newer versions of nokia suite ship a new version of libusb0 (on windows).
Nov 08 16:08:02 <DocScrutinizer51> quite possible, toldya uninstall nokiasuite
Nov 08 16:08:27 <DocScrutinizer51> also toldya to get rid of redmond completely
Nov 08 16:08:30 <vi_> what a ball breaker.
Nov 08 16:08:39 <vi_> Nokia, why u breakin my balls?
Nov 08 16:08:52 <vi_> DocScrutinizer51: I use linux by choice. on everything.
Nov 08 16:08:59 <DocScrutinizer51> that's clearly MS
Nov 08 16:09:01 <vi_> Just not this PC.
Nov 08 16:09:33 <vi_> M$ can suck the sweat from my nuts.
Nov 08 16:09:35 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway, job over, heading home, bbl
Nov 08 16:26:26 <DocScrutinizer51> get a liveCD
Nov 08 16:27:15 <Skry> offtopic but does anyone know if the operator lock can be removed from Nokia N95? Google only mentions N95 8GB and something that "regular" N95 has different method in unlocking.
Nov 08 16:30:16 <vi_> Skry: afaik the n95 is busted wide open by now.
Nov 08 16:30:43 <vi_> It was pre-encrypted bootloader thingy that came out around 5800.
Nov 08 16:30:50 <kerio> neat
Nov 08 16:30:54 <kerio> run fremantle on it
Nov 08 16:31:04 <vi_> nope
Nov 08 16:31:21 <vi_> nokia use to use there own special arm chips.
Nov 08 16:31:25 <vi_> ^their
Nov 08 16:34:09 <Skry> vi_: hmm, ok thanks, gotta do some more googling then.
Nov 08 16:35:11 <vi_> Skry: afaik you need a jaf box.
Nov 08 16:37:47 <Skry> vi_: meh, don't have one, and dont know anyone who would have one :\
Nov 08 17:48:31 <Pali> Hi! now testing all packages from rx51-bme-replacement and it working!
Nov 08 17:48:53 <Pali> now I can shred BME binaries :-)
Nov 08 17:49:17 <Skry> great! :)
Nov 08 17:49:47 <trx> no more closed soruce bme? :)
Nov 08 17:49:59 <trx> congrats :)
Nov 08 17:50:47 <Pali> DEB packages are here: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/
Nov 08 17:51:08 <Pali> source code is here: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/
Nov 08 17:51:42 <Pali> freemangordon, merlin1991, DocScrutinizer51 ^^^^^
Nov 08 17:52:03 <Pali> now it working on maemo with kernel-power (pre)v52
Nov 08 17:53:14 <kerio> Pali: why does it load the modules?
Nov 08 17:53:18 <kerio> aren't they loaded automatically?
Nov 08 17:53:30 <Pali> no, modules are blacklisted in kernel-power
Nov 08 17:53:59 <Pali> but if modules are loaded modprobe will skip loading (and return 0)
Nov 08 17:54:03 <kerio> i see
Nov 08 17:54:21 <kerio> Pali: btw, does the stock battery applet work with your bme replacement?
Nov 08 17:55:25 <Pali> yes
Nov 08 17:55:36 <kerio> Pali: and what's the bq2415x-charger policy regarding the end of the charge?
Nov 08 17:56:04 <Pali> same what is in charge21.sh script
Nov 08 17:56:49 <kerio> and what's that? :)
Nov 08 17:57:04 <kerio> let bq24150 do its thing?
Nov 08 17:57:15 <kerio> it's probably the best thing, but it's still annoying
Nov 08 18:01:17 <ShadowJK> (charge restart happens at around 95% with Japod BL-5) and PR1.3 kernel and charge*/bq24150)
Nov 08 18:04:33 <DocScrutinizer51> kerio: wtf is annoying about bq24150 battery management?
Nov 08 18:04:54 <kerio> the thing where i have to restart the charge 90 mins before leaving the house in the morning :)
Nov 08 18:05:12 <DocScrutinizer51> you don't have to
Nov 08 18:07:00 <DocScrutinizer51> nly annoying thing is you findint the fly in the ointment now that you have a way to tell what's actually going on
Nov 08 18:08:06 <DocScrutinizer51> while old bme signalled 'charging ended' despite battery taing another 100mA during the next 2h
Nov 08 18:09:53 <DocScrutinizer51> while old bme signalled 'charging complete' despite battery taking another 100mAh during the next 2h
Nov 08 18:10:14 <kerio> hm
Nov 08 18:11:34 <ShadowJK> bq27200 "full" is much earlier than bq24150 too, but bq27200 obviously caps it at 100%
Nov 08 18:12:12 <kerio> ShadowJK: RSOC or CSOC?
Nov 08 18:12:19 <ShadowJK> at one point I integrated current over time and calculated that in some cases it'd charge another 15% after bq27200 full :)
Nov 08 18:13:24 <ShadowJK> both
Nov 08 18:13:25 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Nov 08 18:13:55 <kerio> how can you "integrate" over a bunch of datapoints?
Nov 08 18:14:21 <DocScrutinizer05> look at a good math teaching book for that
Nov 08 18:14:32 <kerio> it's... a sum
Nov 08 18:14:40 <ShadowJK> On N8x0 where I've also done integrating fuel gauge, it says "full" when you plug in charger if battery is above 70-80 percent or so :)
Nov 08 18:15:35 <kerio> Pali: modules loaded, no bme, no reboots, hald-addon-bme running
Nov 08 18:15:44 <ShadowJK> Well, bq27200's average current is for last 5s, which means it's current/3600*5 mAh change
Nov 08 18:15:44 <kerio> how do i test libbmeipc and/or dsme-thermalobject-surface?
Nov 08 18:16:05 <Pali> kerio, open syslog and grep for bme
Nov 08 18:16:10 <kerio> no syslog
Nov 08 18:16:14 <kerio> 3:
Nov 08 18:16:30 <Pali> pulseaudio using libbmeipc and it write output to syslog
Nov 08 18:16:39 <kerio> hm
Nov 08 18:16:40 <Pali> without syslog, it is not possible
Nov 08 18:16:45 <ShadowJK> or smth like that
Nov 08 18:17:08 <jonwil> yay for new open BME :)
Nov 08 18:17:55 <Pali> jonwil, removing BME on maemo5 is possible now :-)
Nov 08 18:18:17 <jonwil> cool :)
Nov 08 18:18:22 <kerio> Pali: i don't get messages from pulseaudio on stop/start
Nov 08 18:18:25 <kerio> in syslog
Nov 08 18:18:27 <jonwil> another piece of proprietary junk bites the dust :P
Nov 08 18:19:14 <Pali> kerio, wait pulseaudio did not ask for temperature every second
Nov 08 18:19:27 <Pali> jonwil, yes bme is replaced :-)
Nov 08 18:19:38 <jonwil> which piece of proprietary junk should be replaced next?
Nov 08 18:19:40 <kerio> Pali: ok, i'll wait a bit
Nov 08 18:19:46 <Pali> jonwil, systemui or mce
Nov 08 18:19:51 <kerio> jonwil: pulseaudio!
Nov 08 18:20:00 <Pali> pulseaudio was opened
Nov 08 18:20:03 <jonwil> also, do you still need to know anything about systemui_actingdead?
Nov 08 18:20:11 <Pali> only one library is closed
Nov 08 18:20:11 <kerio> lennart poettering is the proprietary of pulseaudio
Nov 08 18:20:17 <kerio> because it definetely isn't mine
Nov 08 18:20:45 <Pali> jonwil, problem is that what you wrote about actingdead is same what doing battery applet
Nov 08 18:20:47 <Iridos> hm, is there any java browser plugin one can have in maemo on the n900? ... Icedtea, perhaps? mmh, there's an icedtea6 package, but no plugin?
Nov 08 18:21:09 <jonwil> is there more info I can find for you?
Nov 08 18:21:29 <Pali> jonwil, everything about systemui
Nov 08 18:21:46 <jonwil> I found out all I can about systemui :P
Nov 08 18:21:56 <Pali> ok :-)
Nov 08 18:22:14 <jonwil> I still think icd would be a nice target for replacement :P
Nov 08 18:28:43 <DocScrutinizer05> icd could use some proper documentation how to use and configure it, first
Nov 08 18:29:04 <kerio> how's gnome's networkmanager?
Nov 08 18:29:14 <DocScrutinizer05> after that, any replacement is probably easy
Nov 08 18:29:31 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: does it matter?
Nov 08 18:30:12 <DocScrutinizer05> how's networkmanager compatible to icd? I don't think that's any valid replacement
Nov 08 18:32:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: well, it's a replacement
Nov 08 18:32:54 <DocScrutinizer05> android also is a replacement, as is winp7
Nov 08 18:33:08 <kerio> it's an opensource replacement! :P
Nov 08 18:33:23 <DocScrutinizer05> it's no replacement
Nov 08 18:33:37 <kerio> by the way, what can programs do with icd2?
Nov 08 18:33:43 <ShadowJK> icd is the one thing that made sense to close-source, because it works much better and reliably than networkmanager while consuming less ram
Nov 08 18:33:43 <Skry> if we speculate about such options, connman would be a good base to start, networkmanager not so much.
Nov 08 18:33:44 <kerio> bring up the connection dialog and/or ask for a saved connection
Nov 08 18:33:52 <DocScrutinizer05> like a stone isn't a replacement for a gun
Nov 08 18:34:10 <kerio> and what else?
Nov 08 18:36:06 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm, seems you start to understand why I asked for proper docs of icd first
Nov 08 18:38:22 <ShadowJK> I spent a month trying to configure notworkmanager on my PC, and it's almost OK now, except it kills internet if I plug in my N900, and also randomly kills network drives on a semi-regular schedule :(
Nov 08 18:38:27 <ShadowJK> Yeah I'd rather see conman 
Nov 08 18:38:29 <ShadowJK> (not over icd though)
Nov 08 18:38:35 <kerio> >almost OK
Nov 08 18:38:41 <kerio> wtf
Nov 08 18:38:53 <DocScrutinizer05> any such "replacement" would at very least need a converter from old icd config files to new replacement's config
Nov 08 18:39:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and the replacement of course needs to provide the full API like icd does
Nov 08 18:40:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: yep, NM thinks of N900 as a new cute NIC
Nov 08 18:40:59 <DocScrutinizer05> so it drops all existing connectivity to set up a new route via N900
Nov 08 18:41:25 <DocScrutinizer05> that's however the optimal case
Nov 08 18:41:46 <DocScrutinizer05> usually it just is messing up all that can get messed up
Nov 08 18:42:51 <Skry> I believe connman is fully modular, including configuration part so perhaps it could be made directly read old configs as is. It's also targeted for embedded devices so, again, it might be a good starting point.
Nov 08 18:44:46 <Skry> oh, looks like it's sponsored by nokia and intel :)
Nov 08 18:48:22 <kolp> Pali, I have KPpre52 running and installed your bme-replacements as well as your bttery status plugin. Now the device won't charge the battery and the battery plugin shows it as empty (0%) and 1426/-1 mAh. Did I miss something?
Nov 08 18:48:42 <kolp> Also it won't boot with charger plugged in, but that seems to be an older problem
Nov 08 18:49:22 <kolp> (First noticed that after last thumb update)
Nov 08 18:49:34 <Pali> kolp, are kernel drivers loaded?
Nov 08 18:49:48 <Pali> which version of status menu plugin do you have?
Nov 08 18:54:25 <kolp> bq27x00_battery and bq2415x_charger are loaded, yes
Nov 08 18:54:59 <Pali> and rx51_battery?
Nov 08 18:55:14 <kolp> Yes
Nov 08 18:55:37 <Pali> upload somewhere output of lshal
Nov 08 18:55:46 <kolp> It should charge automatically when I plug in the charger, shouldn't it?
Nov 08 18:56:19 <Pali> yes
Nov 08 18:58:12 <kolp> Pali, will upload. Just noticed something: with plugged-in charger the displayed mAh increases. Now "1443/-1 mAh"
Nov 08 18:58:59 <Pali> this seems like problem with rx51_battery driver which export design capacity (-1)
Nov 08 18:59:07 <Pali> why is there -1?
Nov 08 18:59:33 <Pali> did you using old version of my new status menu plugin for battery?
Nov 08 19:00:17 <kolp> Hm, maybe. I'll try to update
Nov 08 19:00:36 <Pali> do update (deb package is on same url)
Nov 08 19:00:41 <Pali> reboot and try again
Nov 08 19:01:00 <Pali> if still not working, upload output of lshal to pastebin
Nov 08 19:07:15 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: you'll wnat to provide a debug tool with all your projects, consisting of a simple script to query properties of key components (like lsmod >>pr.log; ls -l /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/x/y >>pr.log) and finally upload that to a pastebin and spit out the URL
Nov 08 19:07:43 <Pali> ok
Nov 08 19:07:49 <DocScrutinizer05> also stuff like ps, cat /sys/*/*/*/* etc
Nov 08 19:08:40 <DocScrutinizer05> whatever you might comnsider useful - aim is to get all the info you'd probably ever want to analyze problems on user side by user simply running that script
Nov 08 19:09:58 <DocScrutinizer05> uname -a
Nov 08 19:10:17 <DocScrutinizer05> dpkg --foo --bar
Nov 08 19:10:35 <DocScrutinizer05> cat syslog
Nov 08 19:10:35 <Pali> I will create new thread on TMO with all info
Nov 08 19:11:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I thought about a script, not about a howto on tmo
Nov 08 19:11:49 <Pali> yes, I will create script...
Nov 08 19:12:11 <Pali> ... but thread on TMO will be usefull that BME is replaced :-)
Nov 08 19:12:34 <kerio> Pali: please tell people to make a full backup before doing that install
Nov 08 19:13:59 <DocScrutinizer05> instruction could be a simple as pasting one line here: >>>root; wget http://pali.cz/bme/aux/debug.sh; . ./debug.sh; #paste output (URL) here please <<<
Nov 08 19:14:12 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: (useful) sure thing
Nov 08 19:14:14 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Nov 08 19:15:13 <kolp> Pali, ok, some progress: it's now 0 instead of -1, and it recognizes the charger being plugged in (shows the 'Charging banner nd the battery icon is animated).
Nov 08 19:15:27 <DocScrutinizer05> also kerio had a useful comment once again :-D
Nov 08 19:16:00 <kolp> Hm, trie dbq27200.sh to see if it knows the last charging's capacity, but that script's no longer working now?
Nov 08 19:16:09 <Pali> kolp, I need output of lshal
Nov 08 19:16:15 <kolp> Ok, hang on
Nov 08 19:16:15 <kerio> kolp: it doesn't work if bq27x00-battery is loaded
Nov 08 19:16:30 <kerio> check if what you want is in /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/
Nov 08 19:16:31 <DocScrutinizer05> kolp: my major concern
Nov 08 19:16:43 <Pali> I think that battery is not calibrated so last full is not available
Nov 08 19:16:55 <Pali> but I do not know why rx51_battery does not reported design capacity
Nov 08 19:17:07 <kolp> Pali: yes, that's why I wante dto run that script :)
Nov 08 19:17:09 <DocScrutinizer05> bq27200.sh will stop working since bq27200.ko is exclusively opening the I2C device for that chip
Nov 08 19:17:27 <Pali> kolp, run lshal and upload output
Nov 08 19:20:23 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: >>last full is not available<< is not possible. When chip gets reset, it moves ILMD from ROM to "last full"
Nov 08 19:20:46 <Pali> so when can be last full 0?
Nov 08 19:20:56 <DocScrutinizer05> hardly ever
Nov 08 19:21:02 <kolp> Pali: http://pastebin.com/PMfGTdC8
Nov 08 19:22:04 <Pali> kolp, which battery do you have?
Nov 08 19:22:08 <Pali> BL5J?
Nov 08 19:22:10 <Pali> or other?
Nov 08 19:22:19 <kolp> Yes, old original Nokia
Nov 08 19:22:27 <Pali> ok
Nov 08 19:22:33 <Pali> I will look at log later
Nov 08 19:22:45 <Pali> now going afk
Nov 08 19:24:24 <kolp> cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/capacity says: cat: read error: No data available
Nov 08 19:25:49 <Pali> so you do not have calibrated your bq chip
Nov 08 19:26:15 <kolp> I had a new PolarCell in there that I measured using bq27200.sh in that device. 
Nov 08 19:26:16 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: you could bash down "Last Measured Discharge" to 0 by abusing N900 as a battery charger for quite a long time aka high number of charge processes. Insert empty battery while making sure bq27200 won't reset during battery removed, then charge battery to full, insert next completely empty battery...
Nov 08 19:26:30 <Pali> but there is: udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer_power_supply_battery_rx51_battery' battery.reporting.design = 1292  (0x50c)  (int)
Nov 08 19:26:49 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not completely sure it would work like that even
Nov 08 19:27:16 <Pali> I need to find problem why new status area plugin did not read that design capacity
Nov 08 19:27:21 <DocScrutinizer05> since swapping battery should invalidate learning cycle I'd guess
Nov 08 19:29:10 <kolp> I'll try with a different battery
Nov 08 19:30:48 <ShadowJK> (also, each successful learning cycle can change capacity only by 1/6th of previous LMD)
Nov 08 19:31:40 <Pali> kolp, try this: sudo rmmod rx51_battery && sudo modprobe rx51_battery
Nov 08 19:34:21 <kolp> Doesn't help
Nov 08 19:34:30 <kolp> Also, changing the batter ydoesn't, either
Nov 08 19:35:13 <Pali> kolp, downgrade back to nokia status menu plugin
Nov 08 19:35:20 <kerio> kolp: modprobe -r bq27x00-battery and then bq27200.sh
Nov 08 19:35:23 <Pali> maybe there is some bug in my version
Nov 08 19:35:41 <kerio> Pali: worksforme
Nov 08 19:36:10 <Pali> kolp: sudo apt-get install status-area-applet-battery=0.1.24+0m5
Nov 08 19:36:13 <Pali> and then reboot
Nov 08 19:36:28 <kolp> Ok, hang on
Nov 08 19:36:59 <Pali> 2c205408bb55cb3e59af05abdb9baeeb status-area-applet-battery_1.0-1_armel.deb
Nov 08 19:37:16 <Pali> 789d67ee6e3ebcfd141e8e126d570123 status-area-applet-battery_0.1.24+0m5_armel.deb
Nov 08 19:37:22 <Pali> md5sum
Nov 08 19:37:41 <Pali> version 0.1.24+0m5 is nokia version, 1.0-1 is my
Nov 08 19:37:56 <Pali> kolp, check md5sum of my deb package
Nov 08 19:38:06 <kolp> md5sum matches
Nov 08 19:38:15 <kolp> Downgrading
Nov 08 19:41:14 <kolp> Pali: Nokia's applet seems to work
Nov 08 19:41:26 <Pali> kolp, ok
Nov 08 19:41:29 <kolp> s/seems to work/works/
Nov 08 19:41:31 <infobot> kolp meant: Pali: Nokia's applet works
Nov 08 20:01:11 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders why everybody using rmmod instead modprobe -r
Nov 08 20:01:52 <kerio> idk, i always use modprobe -r
Nov 08 20:02:00 <kolp_> It's shorter to type :P
Nov 08 20:02:11 <kolp_> What#s the difference between the two?
Nov 08 20:02:26 <DocScrutinizer05> none, except rmmod obsolete
Nov 08 20:02:54 <DocScrutinizer05> as is insmod
Nov 08 20:03:25 <DocScrutinizer05> both got obsoleted by modprobe, which in fact does a tad more than those can do
Nov 08 20:10:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<kerio> wtf is max load?)) the maximum current the chip detected, since $dunno-when
Nov 08 20:10:52 <kerio> hm
Nov 08 20:11:06 <DocScrutinizer05> kinda highscore
Nov 08 20:11:53 <DocScrutinizer05> you could safely assume that your battery will sustain operation for at least the MLTTE
Nov 08 21:21:50 <kolp_> > which piece of proprietary junk should be replaced next?
Nov 08 21:22:02 <kolp_> I'd vote for connui-statusbar-internet :)
Nov 08 21:22:27 <kolp_> With wifi link qulity indicating icon in the status bar 
Nov 08 21:26:40 <DocScrutinizer05> 259 \o/
Nov 08 21:27:24 <DocScrutinizer05> If we relieve some bans ans sell popcorn, we might reach 300 again ;-D
Nov 08 21:27:31 <DocScrutinizer05> and*
Nov 08 21:28:28 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, not even Friday and I feel the burden already, thinking twice about every post
Nov 08 21:30:32 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619a: any time schedule for the Friday massacre?
Nov 08 21:31:15 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: 259 what?
Nov 08 21:31:20 <DocScrutinizer05> users
Nov 08 21:32:16 <kerio> oh, in here
Nov 08 21:32:23 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
Nov 08 21:33:24 <kerio> some dude is abandoning the N9 scene and selling two N9s and a N950
Nov 08 21:33:25 <kerio> :(
Nov 08 21:33:37 <DocScrutinizer05> *shrug*
Nov 08 21:33:49 <DocScrutinizer05> should I worry?
Nov 08 21:34:13 <DocScrutinizer05> I pinder selling that lumia
Nov 08 21:34:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ponder, dafaq
Nov 08 21:34:52 <DocScrutinizer05> my typing getting worse by the hour rtaher than the day
Nov 08 21:35:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ~spell
Nov 08 21:35:39 <DocScrutinizer05> WUT??
Nov 08 21:36:01 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
Nov 08 21:36:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ~spelling
Nov 08 21:36:05 <infobot> it has been said that spelling is best dealt with in a qualitative sense.  "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." as Andrew Johnson pointed out.  Spelling also doesn't make any difference on IRC.
Nov 08 21:36:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ~+spell 
Nov 08 21:36:51 <infobot> You've guessed it right, I'm a spell checker. Give me any word and I can confirm whether it's good or bad.
Nov 08 21:54:02 <Skry> actually, both rmmod and modprobe are deprecated by kmod
Nov 08 21:59:23 <jon_y> Lava_Croft: team fortress classic was pretty OK
Nov 08 22:08:48 <DocScrutinizer05> jr@halebop:~/n900> man kmod
Nov 08 22:08:50 <DocScrutinizer05> No manual entry for kmod
Nov 08 22:09:25 <DocScrutinizer05> Linux halebop 3.1.10-1.16-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Jun 27 05:21:40 UTC 2012 (d016078) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
Nov 08 22:20:06 <DocScrutinizer05> googling kmod, reading about it, running into "Lennart Poettering"
Nov 08 22:20:11 * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks
Nov 08 22:24:23 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds to me like more cruft sacrificing 100s of kB to spped up boot by 1s
Nov 08 22:29:23 <Skry> skry@Arch ~ $ kmod -V;uname -a
Nov 08 22:29:23 <Skry> kmod version 10
Nov 08 22:29:24 <Skry> Linux Arch 3.6.3-2-ck #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Oct 22 16:37:03 EDT 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux
Nov 08 22:29:41 <Skry> you can't escape lennart
Nov 08 22:32:35 <DocScrutinizer05> may there are other things I can do (to him)
Nov 08 22:33:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I may dream, may I?
Nov 08 22:33:10 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe*
Nov 08 22:33:17 <DocScrutinizer05> 2^^
Nov 08 22:33:56 <Skry> yes, you are (still) allowed to do that
Nov 08 22:34:07 <Skry> no idea though how he relates to kmod
Nov 08 22:34:25 * DocScrutinizer05 forks a kernel that does a grep for lennart and poettering in each and every file opened, and returns -EIO if grep matches
Nov 08 22:34:35 <Skry> :D
Nov 08 22:34:47 <DocScrutinizer05> kmod devels apporached him to implement kmod into systemd
Nov 08 22:35:47 <DocScrutinizer05> I'll approach him to implement dbus, CORBA, and IP stack into systemd
Nov 08 22:36:10 <DocScrutinizer05> and wayland, for showing the help pages on systemd --help
Nov 08 22:36:50 <DocScrutinizer05> and, hell, maybe this now is THE opportunity to get rid of PA: integrate it into systemd
Nov 08 22:37:14 <merlin1991> it's bad enough udev is there
Nov 08 22:37:22 <Skry> mm, well, you don't have to have systemd to use kmod, and, well, kmod is on kernel.org so we use it :)
Nov 08 22:37:59 * DocScrutinizer05 feels that council headache again
Nov 08 22:38:22 <DocScrutinizer05> so I hope you can figure all my rant I don't dare to post anymore
Nov 08 22:38:42 <DocScrutinizer05> n8
Nov 08 22:39:15 <Skry> yeah, I know how you feel about this, don't take too seriously ;)
Nov 08 22:39:36 * merlin1991 checks tmo for the latest fallout
Nov 08 22:40:00 <Skry> mm, something happening?
Nov 08 22:40:28 <Skry> checks
Nov 08 22:40:43 <merlin1991> that's what I'm about to find out :D
Nov 08 22:41:34 <merlin1991> hm there's http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1292072#post1292072 though no idea if it's bad yet
Nov 08 22:43:02 <Skry> ahh, docs headache was council related, so maybe he can still learn to embrace and love lennart and his creations ;>
Nov 08 22:55:30 <Sysaxed> volume keys are so weird... their meaning depends on the phone position...
Nov 08 22:55:36 <Sysaxed> even if the screen is locked
Nov 08 22:55:44 <Sysaxed> so it's more like random to me
Nov 08 22:56:01 <Sysaxed> how can I remember which orientation I had when I locked the screen?...
Nov 08 22:58:53 <Sysaxed> damn Nokia, how come they thought it's a good idea to switch keys depending on orientation?
Nov 08 23:43:11 <DocScrutinizer05> well, isn't that switching done inside the volume-adjuster apps?
Nov 08 23:43:42 <DocScrutinizer05> isn't left button always Ft and right button F8 or sth?
Nov 08 23:44:00 <DocScrutinizer05> s/Ft/F7/
Nov 08 23:44:01 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: isn't left button always F7 and right button F8 or sth?
Nov 08 23:45:34 <DocScrutinizer05> aah, you rproblem probably is on DBus where those events show up as vol+ and vol-
Nov 08 23:47:40 <Sysaxed> DocScrutinizer05, yes, the only problem is the volume switcher
Nov 08 23:47:45 <Sysaxed> that's what bothers me
Nov 09 00:12:34 <DocScrutinizer05> xchat for example _always_ scrolls down the chan tab list with right vol switch, and up with left vol switch (unless you redefine the key mapping in xcaht settings)
Nov 09 00:13:05 <DocScrutinizer05> no matter which orientation the device is in
Nov 09 00:14:01 <DocScrutinizer05> so if you got problems with the meaning of volume keys regarding volume-up/down, your design probably is flawed in that regard
Nov 09 00:51:22 <Sysaxed> DocScrutinizer05, I'm talking about built in volume control
Nov 09 00:51:25 <Sysaxed> not my software
Nov 09 00:52:56 <Sysaxed> especially when I'm receiving a call... that's awesome... "damn, it's too quite, I should make it louder a bit..." then you press the volume button and it gets muted
Nov 09 00:53:07 <Sysaxed> and you're wondering why the person you're talking with is not speaking
Nov 09 00:53:08 <Sysaxed> lol
Nov 09 01:10:08 <Skry> cannot say that I've had similar issues on volume keys, and I know the keys get reported to X as they are and should be (-> app level issue), BUT the step from mute to lowes volume is gigantic, and when lowering call volume I still after all these years accidently mute the audio.
Nov 09 01:10:20 <Skry> lowest
Nov 09 01:13:40 <Skry> offtopic of tonight, interesting read for linux/foss minded among us, regarding the madness at gnome, gtk and ubuntu camps: http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/
Nov 09 01:18:33 <Skry> though mixing kde into that mess is just attention seeking and/or picking a fight, and I heard that some of the people mentioned as devs are not actually in that big position, but nevertheless, interesting
Nov 09 01:21:56 <robbiethe1st> I'm in favor of QT and KDE
Nov 09 01:22:10 <robbiethe1st> Seems logical, useful, generally performant, and quite customizable.
Nov 09 01:22:44 <robbiethe1st> See, if I wanted a 'brand' user experience, I'd go with Apple. The whole reason I'm on Linux is because I can make it do what /I/ want, and not what the developers envisioned.
Nov 09 01:24:05 <Skry> QT and KDE in here too. And unlike popular belief, kde performs really well when setup correctly and stripped of crud, which is important to me. And I'll agree your point on brands completely.
Nov 09 01:24:10 <Sysaxed> Skry, as far as I can see if you accept a call in landscape mode, then volume up is a key that is closer to the center
Nov 09 01:24:38 <Sysaxed> and it's mirrored if you accept a call in portrait mode
Nov 09 01:27:35 <Skry> Sysaxed: yeah, might be as you say, never noticed though. But, like said, it's an application issue really, there are no magical accelerometer modifier for keymap etc so you can't blame the poor keys :)
Nov 09 01:27:51 <Sysaxed> yep, I understand
Nov 09 01:28:10 <Sysaxed> and it's closed source, right?
Nov 09 01:28:19 <Sysaxed> so I have to live with it ? :\
Nov 09 01:29:52 <Skry> I understand that you understand but for some reason I had to start picking on the words. I usually don't do that, it's irritating, sorry :) No idea about the closedness, wouldn't surprise me if it were.
Nov 09 01:32:57 <Sysaxed> btw, I've found an awesome way to lock/unlock screen :D
Nov 09 01:33:01 <Sysaxed> more about it tomorrow
Nov 09 01:33:05 <Sysaxed> now I have to sleep
Nov 09 01:33:06 <Sysaxed> bye
Nov 09 01:44:26 <Skry> anyways, I never quite understood why so many think so high about gtk. It's always been unintuitive to theme, theme engines are mostly crap, file requesters and such are imo clumsy and fugly etc. It's better than nothing though, and can be visually appealing and fast with good engine and theme (if you can find such), but still..
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