**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 16 02:59:59 2012 Nov 16 07:49:00 what's the current favorite way of syncing calandars from an n900 to somemwhere else (preferably talking something like caldav)? likewise for contacts? Nov 16 07:51:17 fil: not sure how up-to-date wiki is but http://wiki.maemo.org/Sync Nov 16 08:43:26 fil: You still here? Nov 16 08:43:41 Sync evolution works for syncing individual calanders Nov 16 09:02:10 ShadowJK: ping Nov 16 09:07:44 vi__: hi -- so does one has to have evolution somewhere in the mix? or can one use sync-evolution and point it at a caldav server for the calendar, and maybe an LDAP server for the contacts, say? Nov 16 09:09:12 s/has/have/ Nov 16 09:09:12 fil meant: vi__: hi -- so does one have to have evolution somewhere in the mix? or can one use sync-evolution and point it at a caldav server for the calendar, and maybe an LDAP server for the contacts, say? Nov 16 09:09:57 ick! I wasn't expecting that to happen ;-) Nov 16 09:11:54 you need to use sync-evolution and I believe it supports caldav. Nov 16 09:18:23 vi__: ok, I'll give it a go -- thanks Nov 16 09:23:12 THE FUCK?!? AlarmUI stille leaks memory, even with my fixes. Someone should check all of the packages made by AlarmUI developer. Nov 16 09:23:29 vi_: ping Nov 16 09:26:04 freemangordon: valgrind? Nov 16 09:27:02 jon_y: well, i found what leaks, just that I am impressed, I've never seens such a buggy code to be allowed to go on the field Nov 16 09:27:12 *seen Nov 16 09:27:19 AGILE! Nov 16 09:27:23 :D Nov 16 09:27:39 of course, there is no customer feedback to make it work Nov 16 09:27:44 more like SHITTY DEVELOPERS! Nov 16 09:27:52 they have moved on to $next_product Nov 16 09:28:01 "who cares, kernel will free the memory later" Nov 16 09:28:02 freemangordon: o/ Nov 16 09:28:21 vi__: do you use alarmui replacement? Nov 16 09:28:34 freemangordon: Now you understand why you were never allowed to see BME code! Nov 16 09:28:39 freemangordon: Yes. Nov 16 09:28:49 hmm, I need someone with stock Nov 16 09:28:58 jon_y: ^^^? Nov 16 09:29:09 freemangordon: what do you need? Nov 16 09:29:28 osso-systemui-alarm 0.2.1.31+0m5. Nov 16 09:29:37 someone to check the heap size of systemui Nov 16 09:30:09 someone who uses alarms on daily basis Nov 16 09:30:17 and has uptime at least 3 days Nov 16 09:30:22 they wake me up every day Nov 16 09:30:27 good Nov 16 09:30:38 freemangordon: without end users for feedback, agile or whatever $new_fad is a shitty excuse for sloppy coding Nov 16 09:30:39 uptime is 1 day 17:37 though Nov 16 09:30:44 reflashing :/ Nov 16 09:30:54 I had enough dealing at it at work :( Nov 16 09:31:03 so, what is the heap size in /proc/`pidof systemyu`/smaps Nov 16 09:31:12 tadzik: ^^^ Nov 16 09:31:19 freemangordon: I have a stock n900 at home, but I will not have it for another 10 hours. Nov 16 09:31:22 sorry for the typos Nov 16 09:31:30 If you are still stuck then, give me a shout. Nov 16 09:31:54 vi__: i am not stuck, I want to be sure it is not some memory leak caused by me Nov 16 09:32:02 often cycle times are so fast, product is shoved out the door without adequate Q&A Nov 16 09:32:13 stupid managers and their ttm Nov 16 09:32:17 freemangordon: 00017000-0045b000 rw-p 00017000 00:00 0 [heap] Nov 16 09:32:21 (or something like this) Nov 16 09:32:27 what is the size? Nov 16 09:32:39 heh, how do I know :) Nov 16 09:32:49 it is written there :P Nov 16 09:32:51 that's grep -i heap /proc/`pidof systemui`/smaps Nov 16 09:32:56 noo Nov 16 09:33:00 (bbs) Nov 16 09:33:19 cat /proc/`pidof systemui`/smaps | less Nov 16 09:33:31 or more, whichever is convinient to you Nov 16 09:33:32 hmm size: 1284 kB rss: 1124 kB Nov 16 09:33:43 jaska: yeah, thanks Nov 16 09:33:49 this is what I mean Nov 16 09:33:54 jaska: what is your uptime Nov 16 09:33:54 21 day uptime, alarm on workdays Nov 16 09:33:56 ? Nov 16 09:34:12 hmm Nov 16 09:35:00 same package version as vi Nov 16 09:35:17 freemangordon: woops, my rant went too long, sorry, I don't have stock firmware Nov 16 09:35:24 wtf Nov 16 09:35:27 Actually I am not sure if I installed replacement alarmui on this n900. Nov 16 09:35:29 my car insurance went up?! Nov 16 09:35:38 * Macer gets his knife out to stab someone Nov 16 09:35:40 makes no sense Nov 16 09:35:46 Macer: welcome to the UK. Nov 16 09:35:52 well, I'll check once again, but what I see in the (REed) code is notify_notification_new Nov 16 09:36:03 with no g_object_unref Nov 16 09:36:07 I had a friggin motorboating sound yesterday, which I was able to stop with `stop pulseaudio; start pulseaudio` Nov 16 09:36:11 Where car insurance is an unregulated cartel. Nov 16 09:36:25 DocScrutinizer05: ...motorboating? Nov 16 09:36:47 So I am pretty sure we have one NotifyNotification object memory leak on every alarm Nov 16 09:37:05 vi__: ascii is rather unsuited to transfer audio Nov 16 09:37:07 along with a couple of DBusMessage objects Nov 16 09:37:33 DocScrutinizer05: Can a rogue AP stop a wifi client radio being in power saving mode? Nov 16 09:37:39 jaska: can you setup a new alarm, stop it and check if heap size for systemui remains the same Nov 16 09:37:45 vi__: sure Nov 16 09:37:45 or increases Nov 16 09:37:50 holdon Nov 16 09:37:55 Macer: go scratch some other car :) Nov 16 09:38:02 does the alarm have to go off? Nov 16 09:38:13 jaska: I meant setup, wait it to be played, stop it Nov 16 09:38:18 DocScrutinizer05: I get 250mA drain when streaming radio at work. Nov 16 09:38:47 DocScrutinizer05: As soon as I enter 'iwconfig wlan0 power period 1' it drops to ~100mA. Nov 16 09:38:48 jaska: and compare heap before/after Nov 16 09:38:50 might be just 'normal' Nov 16 09:38:59 wow Nov 16 09:39:13 If I then disable power saving 'iwconfig wlan0 power off' Nov 16 09:39:22 It jumps back to 250mA. Nov 16 09:39:37 It is set to powersaving maximum in the 'connections' menu. Nov 16 09:39:53 freemangordon: soon it will scream :) Nov 16 09:39:59 hehe :D Nov 16 09:40:15 no change Nov 16 09:40:21 hmm Nov 16 09:40:21 I am trying to determine if it is my device that is wonky, this AP or is n900 wifi powersaving broken? Nov 16 09:40:27 but it might need more than one go to leak enough Nov 16 09:40:38 jaska: yeah Nov 16 09:40:59 well, I am going to doublecheck if it is not me guilty D: Nov 16 09:41:00 vi__: that will be hard to determine Nov 16 09:41:08 http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ is my alarm sound :), extracted it from the swf Nov 16 09:41:13 kinda creepy to wake up to that every morning Nov 16 09:41:26 DocScrutinizer05: In fact if I then limit the rate to 12M it drops to ~90mA. Nov 16 09:41:46 DocScrutinizer05: Yeah, thought it might strike a chord with someone. Nov 16 09:42:06 DocScrutinizer05: This is where it gets crazy... Nov 16 09:42:35 If I then unlock the screen, it jumps back to ~250mA. Nov 16 09:42:49 Until I set powersaving mode with iwconfig again. Nov 16 09:43:12 jaska: no, it is not me. the only places g_object_unref is called is for some icons in calendar alarm ui Nov 16 09:43:25 ok, guess it needs to leak more then Nov 16 09:43:33 it is never called for NotifyNotification objects Nov 16 09:43:36 So my device is not entering powersaving mode until told. Then it is leaving powersaving mode when I unlock the screen. w. t. f. Nov 16 09:43:40 look, PSM delays transmission of data packages. How should AP or N900 wifi know this stream is not realtime? Nov 16 09:43:41 at least according to IDA Nov 16 09:44:52 vi__: PSM is meant to not kick in during streaming Nov 16 09:45:25 unless your AP knows about the stream and does some bandwidth management Nov 16 09:45:56 3 days uptime, 6 alarms every morning which I snooze at least once Nov 16 09:45:59 00017000-0067c000 rw-p 00017000 00:00 0 [heap] Nov 16 09:46:02 Size: 6548 kB Nov 16 09:46:04 Rss: 4016 kB Nov 16 09:46:06 Pss: 4016 kB Nov 16 09:46:13 stock package? Nov 16 09:46:19 no Nov 16 09:46:35 but it will be the same with stock Nov 16 09:46:45 at least by looking at the code Nov 16 09:47:04 i dont snooze ever :), i used to snooze up to 2 hours per morning but found it futile :| Nov 16 09:47:24 so its just 5 alarms per week Nov 16 09:47:56 jaska: well, this is why you have only abait 1M of heap despite your large uptime Nov 16 09:48:03 *about Nov 16 09:48:14 could be.. id have 100+ day uptime if i hadnt rebooted "recently" Nov 16 09:48:43 doing a dd if=/dev/zero of=somefile got me a watchdog reboot after about 1h Nov 16 09:48:43 DocScrutinizer05: But why does PSM turn off when I unlock the screen? Nov 16 09:48:52 but deffinitely, one needs to find all packages by the same developer and check them carefully Nov 16 09:50:02 vi__: no idea Nov 16 09:51:19 jaska: after 60 minutes?? Nov 16 09:51:35 yes.. it took like 1h before it hit it Nov 16 09:51:40 jaska: unusual for dd to run that long Nov 16 09:51:54 but the device was unresponsive most of the time.. took like several minutes to get any ui action Nov 16 09:52:12 I mean, at least unless source AND dest are /deev/* Nov 16 09:53:06 time for some nomnom. Nov 16 09:53:22 time for my doctor Nov 16 09:53:46 I hate walks outside when I got flu and it's raining Nov 16 10:50:39 Hello, after apt-get update and reboot i dont have sound in my n900(speakers,headphones). How to fix that? ): Nov 16 10:53:53 destrs: Is that the truth? Nov 16 10:54:11 destrs: All you entered was 'apt-get update'? Nov 16 10:58:12 vi__: day before i tried dist-upgrade but when i saw that apt removed 5 packages i canceled it :< Nov 16 11:00:49 vi__: apt keep log? Nov 16 11:01:40 maybe good to check what was updated? Nov 16 11:04:06 <_shadowx> Has any1 compiled lorcon && PyLorcon2 on/for n900 ? Nov 16 11:04:30 dammit why do people keep breaking their n900 with apt Nov 16 11:04:48 DocScrutinizer05 will never be convinced that it's safe, this way! :( Nov 16 11:05:26 <_shadowx> http://www.exploit-db.com/exploits/22739/ <- it will be nice to have this in your pocket. Nov 16 11:07:01 destrs: apt-get update no way ever breaks anything on your device Nov 16 11:07:47 ^_^ Nov 16 11:07:51 upgrade and particularly dist-upgrade definitely does, though Nov 16 11:08:03 oh :c Nov 16 11:08:16 why did it always work for me then? Nov 16 11:08:25 so what now ?:( Nov 16 11:08:31 destrs: did you enable some repos recently? Nov 16 11:08:32 reflah Nov 16 11:08:37 reflash Nov 16 11:08:41 nah Nov 16 11:08:57 destrs: what audio-related programs and widgets do you have installed? Nov 16 11:09:09 micro usb broken :( Nov 16 11:09:46 oh lols Nov 16 11:09:53 this is going to be fun Nov 16 11:11:13 kerio: only decoders-support Nov 16 11:12:17 destrs: can you make phone calls? Nov 16 11:12:19 apt-get install --reinstall mp-maemo-fremantle-pr -- no warranty! and DO A BACKUP BY BM BEFORE YOU CONTINUE! Nov 16 11:13:11 discuss this with others here, don't trust in my suggestion blindly! Nov 16 11:14:19 well, it will fuck things up if he has cssu installed :) Nov 16 11:14:30 perhaps it's better to reinstall just pulseaudio first Nov 16 11:15:34 hm, apparently someone wants ncdu in the repos :) Nov 16 11:15:47 Is it much of a hassle to upload stuff to extras-devel or something? Nov 16 11:17:50 kerio: in phone calls sound and mic dont work too :( Nov 16 11:17:54 tadzik: maemo.org is kinda broken, i'm afraid Nov 16 11:18:03 tadzik: you don't 'upload' random stuff to extras-devel or any other repo Nov 16 11:18:07 destrs: do you remember what you upgraded? Nov 16 11:18:07 kerio: i have maemo-testing installed Nov 16 11:18:31 destrs: you mean cssu-testing? Nov 16 11:18:38 i meant on the last upgrade Nov 16 11:19:31 yep, cssu-testing Nov 16 11:19:31 kerio: you'd be a pretty 'good' police interrogator. Nov 16 11:19:40 http://pastebin.com/cyREwQ6e < syslog Nov 16 11:20:15 asking suggestive questions is sometimes not exactly helpful Nov 16 11:20:16 DocScrutinizer05: is that a compliment? Nov 16 11:20:27 oic Nov 16 11:20:41 DocScrutinizer05: wtf is maemo-testing, then? Nov 16 11:20:45 DocScrutinizer05: well, I'd have to apply for access there first, surely Nov 16 11:20:58 in my book maemo-testing is a repo Nov 16 11:21:18 usually called extras-testing Nov 16 11:21:19 which repo? Nov 16 11:21:21 oic Nov 16 11:22:38 tadzik: afaik stuff moves to extras-devel via autobuilder, you upload the sources Nov 16 11:23:18 fair enuff Nov 16 11:23:30 tadzik: also afaik autobuilder is possibly out of order right now Nov 16 11:23:44 heh, problem solved then Nov 16 11:27:41 destrs you too, broken microUSB? Nov 16 11:27:54 ~usbfix Nov 16 11:27:56 usbfix is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Nov 16 11:29:21 kerio: another possible recovery path would be to get a BM backup of a 'virgin' system and restore that Nov 16 11:29:55 DocScrutinizer05: Highly risky. Nov 16 11:30:09 What if he does not have the appropriate kernel modules in the new backup? Nov 16 11:30:10 indeed, you should make damn sure your kernel matches Nov 16 11:31:09 md5sum /dev/mtd0 should tell Nov 16 11:31:38 IroN900:/home/user# md5sum /dev/mtd0 Nov 16 11:31:39 0869a60ac6d1ed40b7ba523012676b18 /dev/mtd0 Nov 16 11:32:14 *might* not work with bad blocks, open to verification Nov 16 11:33:45 IroN900:/home/user# uname -a Nov 16 11:33:47 Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux Nov 16 11:36:21 Iro? fancy name Nov 16 11:36:30 IroN Nov 16 11:37:04 you've not seen my devel device yet: t900 Nov 16 11:38:23 (with glowing red eyes ;-D ) Nov 16 11:38:28 ahnold Nov 16 11:40:40 Nokia Hal9000 Nov 16 11:41:07 anyway I'd appreciate some half dozen users (with stock kernel) would do a md5sum /dev/mtd0ro and compare if they got same checksum, then report here Nov 16 11:41:50 (comparing last 6 digits should suffice) Nov 16 11:47:55 but that means every 2^19 kernel iterations could result in a collison. Nov 16 11:48:06 Those are not odds I am prepared to take. Nov 16 11:49:12 for a survey it's good enough Nov 16 11:49:31 odds for users to fail due to other reasons are way higher Nov 16 11:51:43 seems nobody is running a stock kernel here anymore? Nov 16 11:52:21 hey, you may contribute other md5sums alike. Would help as well Nov 16 11:53:25 output of md5sum /dev/mtd0ro and output of uname -a, in one line Nov 16 11:54:01 (or 2 if you CBA to concatenate them) Nov 16 11:54:15 2.6.28.10-cssu3 Nov 16 11:54:16 0869a60ac6d1ed40b7ba523012676b18 /dev/mtd0 Nov 16 11:54:30 o.O Nov 16 11:54:45 dang, you're using errr uBoot? Nov 16 11:55:16 not even then Nov 16 11:55:27 No uboot here. Nov 16 11:55:53 so how T F you get same md5sum? Nov 16 11:56:17 0869a60ac6d1ed40b7ba523012676b18, 2.6.28.10-cssu3 Nov 16 11:56:24 md5 hash collision? Nov 16 11:56:26 something flawed in my idea to md5sum the kernel? Nov 16 11:56:35 DocScrutinizer05: I think so. Nov 16 11:56:47 but what? Nov 16 11:57:02 outch!! Nov 16 11:57:05 bootloader Nov 16 11:57:12 kernel is mtd3 Nov 16 11:57:23 LOL Nov 16 11:57:28 sorry, my bad Nov 16 11:57:29 2.6.28.10-cssu3 Nov 16 11:57:29 de782385e4cef3c2acdebb1783cb0a3f /dev/mtd3 Nov 16 11:57:42 tadzik: should be the same as mine Nov 16 11:57:54 IroN900:/home/user# md5sum /dev/mtd3ro Nov 16 11:57:56 1b61c083ceef929660383ebb7e96ebce /dev/mtd3ro Nov 16 11:58:00 DocScrutinizer05: So that confirms, we are all using the same bootloader. Nov 16 11:58:01 good. Nov 16 11:58:11 hehe, rright Nov 16 11:58:19 Now after two years of calculus they show us residue theorem... ARGH... Nov 16 11:58:27 DocScrutinizer05: I am glad you though of eliminating that possibility. Nov 16 11:58:59 Pali: it's a neat theorem :3 Nov 16 11:59:43 I'm angry, some problems which takes me 30-45 minutes, now are easy (5-10min) Nov 16 12:00:03 i still haven't done a complex analysis course Nov 16 12:01:46 try integrate 1/(very big polynom) :D Nov 16 12:01:58 Pali: NOPE.jpg Nov 16 12:01:59 from -infty to +infty Nov 16 12:02:45 i loved integrals, whe I was in uni Nov 16 12:02:50 freemangordon: *why* Nov 16 12:02:57 but hated differential equations Nov 16 12:03:26 kerio: NFC, but fr some reason I was solving the very easily Nov 16 12:03:34 *for Nov 16 12:03:37 freemangordon: you haven't generalized them enough, then Nov 16 12:03:43 ? Nov 16 12:04:25 sorry for the typos, for some reason remote desktop eats a couple of letters in every sentence :D Nov 16 12:04:41 mtd0: 0869a60ac6d1ed40b7ba523012676b18 mtd1: 9a1d434dbd7197e7c3af8a7c28ca38b mtd3: 89217564b9b956bc96051c8eb9f609a3 mtd4: b23b5d09162b92c0284923a7f628d2a5 Nov 16 12:04:48 whoops, something wrong there Nov 16 12:04:59 and of course it's mtd2 Nov 16 12:05:08 mtd2: 09a1d434dbd7197e7c3af8a7c28ca38b Nov 16 12:06:06 mtd3 is u-boot-2012.10-rc3-1+zImage-2.6.28.10-power52-prenov10 Nov 16 12:07:22 mtd2 and mtd4 are empty :D :D :D Nov 16 12:08:21 kerio: mtd4 is where I stash my pr0n. Nov 16 12:08:38 Typical bandwidth* usage for different codecs. Nov 16 12:08:38 G711 - 87.2kbps -This is the best quality codec. Nov 16 12:08:38 G729 - 31.2kbps -A compressed good quality codec. Nov 16 12:08:38 G723.1 - 21.9kbps -The codec best for satellite, (more compressed). Nov 16 12:08:38 G726 - 55.2kbps Nov 16 12:08:40 G728 - 31.5kbps Nov 16 12:08:43 oh shit. Nov 16 12:08:45 Sorry. Nov 16 12:08:49 wrong windown. Nov 16 12:08:53 that's a paddlin0 Nov 16 12:08:55 *paddlin' Nov 16 12:09:28 vi__: my porn directory is 92GB after a big cleanup Nov 16 12:09:35 so i doubt it would fit Nov 16 12:09:42 vi__: you forgot ILBC Nov 16 12:10:00 DocScrutinizer05: I was pasting to my notebook. Nov 16 12:11:54 kerio: we're for sure not interested in md5sum of mtd2 or mtd4 Nov 16 12:12:12 also mtd1 is useless Nov 16 12:12:20 DocScrutinizer05: it wasn't mtd1, it was mtd2 Nov 16 12:12:33 i don't want to give you guys the hash to my CAL Nov 16 12:12:41 I got eyes to see what it was Nov 16 12:12:41 you could reverse it and steal my lock code! Nov 16 12:13:30 DocScrutinizer05: yeah but i wrote that wrong, it was mtd2 Nov 16 12:14:15 dafaq so now your whole spamming rendered completely worthless Nov 16 12:14:29 apart for mtd3 Nov 16 12:14:44 and it was one line Nov 16 12:15:00 sorry, I dunno what was mtd3 in your spam, if it been mtd2 instead, and where to find it in that mess Nov 16 12:15:40 poor trolling today Nov 16 12:15:56 ...what? Nov 16 12:21:55 vi__: yep, mtd3 is alike Nov 16 12:34:34 tadzik: we can be kernel buddies! Nov 16 12:34:39 hooray! Nov 16 12:35:04 silly people without uboot Nov 16 12:35:46 after I accidentally my entire partition table I'm less adventurous and less eager to toy with nemo :) Nov 16 12:36:05 tadzik: you didn't your entire partition table Nov 16 12:36:18 you just made a new one in /dev/mmcblk0p1 Nov 16 12:36:25 yeah, I also fscked my MyDocs Nov 16 12:36:33 ah, true Nov 16 12:36:40 right, it was just p1 Nov 16 12:44:22 . Nov 16 12:49:24 DocScrutinizer05: i discovered that without any gadget module loaded, you don't get the stupid popup when you connect the n900 to a pc Nov 16 12:49:58 oh, while we're at it. Is there a way to tell n900 "pc unmounted you, give me my MyDocs back"? Nov 16 12:50:06 other than unplugging the usb cable Nov 16 12:50:08 tadzik: it should happen on eject Nov 16 12:50:34 hm, that's different than unmount, eh? Will try, thanks Nov 16 12:54:28 tadzik: read osso-mmc-umout.sh Nov 16 12:55:16 tadzik: and osso-usb-mass-storage-disable.sh Nov 16 12:55:36 in /usr/bin Nov 16 13:00:15 kerio: known fact. But yes, a useful measure sometimes Nov 16 13:02:11 tadzik: eject sometimes called "safely remove" Nov 16 13:02:38 tadzik: there's also `eject` cmdline binary Nov 16 13:02:46 on linux PC Nov 16 13:03:05 diskutil eject as opposed to diskutil umount, on os x Nov 16 13:15:57 yeah, I usually click the umount/eject button in KDE, turns out it doesn't always DWIM Nov 16 13:16:49 vi__: thanks, I'll take a look Nov 16 13:24:52 is any possibility to enable monit for password using root comans in console? Nov 16 13:25:37 Drathir: please rephrase Nov 16 13:26:07 no passwordless login, I guess Nov 16 13:26:17 ~jrtools Nov 16 13:26:17 jrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Nov 16 13:28:16 hooray, wiki completely down now? Nov 16 13:28:33 :-/ Nov 16 13:28:54 ooh no, there it is Nov 16 13:29:04 just 'usually' slow Nov 16 13:29:56 see >># fix NOPASSWD for root / sudo gainroot Nov 16 13:30:20 # this will allow your N900 to ask for ROOT password on "root" Nov 16 13:30:22 # and "sudo gainroot" as it's supposed to be Nov 16 13:32:02 DocScrutinizer05: yours devel device must looks amazing ^^ Nov 16 13:32:18 hmm? Nov 16 13:32:37 because of red gleaming eyes? ;-) Nov 16 13:33:58 DocScrutinizer05: btw Nokia-N900:~# md5sum /dev/mtd0 Nov 16 13:33:59 0869a60ac6d1ed40b7ba523012676b18 /dev/mtd0 Nov 16 13:34:32 Drathir: sorry, we actually need mtd3 Nov 16 13:34:42 plus uname -a Nov 16 13:36:10 WOOOHOOO wiki edit works again!! Nov 16 13:36:21 X-Fade: thanks! Nov 16 13:36:24 Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28.10-power51 #1 PREEMPT Mon Jul 23 16:41:15 EEST 2012 armv7l unknown Nov 16 13:37:36 err scratch that, doesn't store. Same like 5 days ago Nov 16 13:38:02 8283eb01242352f4c87d246a172b1a80 /dev/mtd3 Nov 16 13:38:14 Drathir: thanks Nov 16 13:38:36 DocScrutinizer05, what's the need for md5summing kernel partitions? Nov 16 13:39:08 to make sure the kernel is what we expect it to be, to match kernel modules in rootfs Nov 16 13:39:23 ah Nov 16 13:40:31 I wanna make sure we get no false 'negatives' due to bad blocks in NAND Nov 16 13:40:52 aiui that shouldn't happen, but anyway Nov 16 13:40:55 DocScrutinizer05: how much infrastructure would backupmenu need to run softupd+flasher? Nov 16 13:41:23 err, pretty much a complete core system? Nov 16 13:41:28 why? Nov 16 13:41:30 :( Nov 16 13:41:50 udev, upstart... Nov 16 13:42:08 why does softupd need upstart? Nov 16 13:42:25 I think it's controlled by upstart Nov 16 13:42:32 nope, not softupd --standalone Nov 16 13:42:48 so, nfc then Nov 16 13:42:51 the one used by the -flasher packages Nov 16 13:43:03 i think that the upstart one is for nokia suite updates Nov 16 13:43:33 you'll test and tell us ;-) Nov 16 13:44:35 softupd needs libdbus-1.so.3 Nov 16 13:44:38 kerio: maybe a lsof|grep softupd might give a first clue Nov 16 13:44:41 i don't trust it >:c Nov 16 13:45:07 ouch dbus Nov 16 13:45:12 yep Nov 16 13:45:13 :s Nov 16 13:45:19 so even more than just a core system needed Nov 16 13:45:24 heh Nov 16 13:45:45 dbus is totally core system! Nov 16 13:45:53 according to poettering, that is Nov 16 13:45:58 though, once lennart raided linux, dbus is a part of core system Nov 16 13:46:05 hehe Nov 16 13:46:48 hehe, I was on lennart's talk when he was in town. The organizers later forced him to go to Metallica concert Nov 16 13:47:04 LOL Nov 16 13:47:14 haha, why? Nov 16 13:47:27 to torture him, I guess Nov 16 13:47:32 also, couldn't you go to that concert and kick him in the head in the mosh pit? Nov 16 13:47:41 they knew he's not a metalhead and felt a need to convert him Nov 16 13:47:56 I wasn't going to waste 100 PLN on Metallica show Nov 16 13:48:06 so I just stood outside the fence for free :> Nov 16 13:48:10 not on metallica Nov 16 13:48:15 on lennart Nov 16 13:48:16 tadzik: but you could've saved linux! Nov 16 13:48:18 yep Nov 16 13:49:19 locating him could've been tough. Unless I convinced the guy (Hetfield?) to ask "Where tf is the pulseaudio guy?!?" in the middle of the show, and everyone would point at him Nov 16 13:49:46 rotfl Nov 16 13:53:34 DocScrutinizer05: thanks for link to site there is so many usseful things... Nov 16 13:54:12 DocScrutinizer05: yes with this eyes... Nov 16 13:54:42 thanks for "useful things" Nov 16 13:54:55 glad you like it Nov 16 13:54:58 yw Nov 16 14:01:00 I just ried to add >>Install rootsh from extras-devel repository! (you need to do this in HildonApplicationManager aka HAM)<< to that wikipage, but wiki is broken :-/ Nov 16 14:01:37 DocScrutinizer05: why rootsh? :( Nov 16 14:01:43 it enables awful behaviour Nov 16 14:01:45 why notß Nov 16 14:02:13 I deal with that awful behaviour later Nov 16 14:03:22 this rootsh also install with radio application... Nov 16 14:03:40 quite possible Nov 16 14:03:47 I use apt. Nov 16 14:03:56 so radio application is braindamaged fubar Nov 16 14:03:58 deal with it. o-o Nov 16 14:04:18 vi__: eh? Nov 16 14:04:32 ever tried to use apt in non-root account? Nov 16 14:05:34 vi__: or do you suggest to enable R&D mode to get sudo fixed so you can sudo gainroot? Nov 16 14:05:53 no, I was just having fun. Nov 16 14:06:11 DocScrutinizer05: to be fair that's supposed to be the "legit" way Nov 16 14:06:31 an even cleaner one would be to install openssh and use its password setter, then login as root Nov 16 14:06:37 to be fair nobody gives a F* Nov 16 14:06:47 why are you grumpier than the usual today? Nov 16 14:06:52 still ill? Nov 16 14:06:53 flu Nov 16 14:07:19 sucks Nov 16 14:07:52 sorry Nov 16 14:08:15 get well soon! Nov 16 14:08:20 tnx Nov 16 14:08:53 dang, council meeting tonight Nov 16 14:09:45 * DocScrutinizer05 heads out to get a large bottle of wick medinait Nov 16 14:09:52 DocScrutinizer05: you need polish "Aspirin C" pick up from cold nose in a day... Nov 16 14:13:30 kerio: if fremantle was properly designed, you couldn't install anything via HAM without giving device (==root) password. So no installing of security nightmare abominations like rootsh either. Nov 16 14:14:26 yeah but people do some awful crap with gainroot Nov 16 14:15:13 see [2012-11-16 15:03:22] this rootsh also install with radio application... Nov 16 14:15:20 guess why Nov 16 14:15:27 because they're morons? Nov 16 14:15:31 yep Nov 16 14:15:51 or rather, devels that CBA to read about sudo Nov 16 14:17:37 what the heck is so difficult about installing your own tailored-to-fit /etc/sudoers.d/radioapp file? Nov 16 14:18:43 this radioapp ought to get demoted on testing Nov 16 14:20:18 Drathir: what's exact name of this radio app? Nov 16 14:25:02 DocScrutinizer05: qtradio or something like that Nov 16 14:25:03 qradio, maybe Nov 16 14:25:53 I'll file a bug against it "doesn't work on my device" (since it won't, due to my root password patch) Nov 16 14:26:35 "lrn2sudo!!1!11!" Nov 16 14:27:43 hell, I probably could even fix it in 10 minutes, modulo building Nov 16 14:28:14 I could provide a patch Nov 16 14:28:32 no you can't Nov 16 14:28:33 you have the flu Nov 16 14:28:44 don't sniffle and code Nov 16 14:29:02 yeah, might introduce a virus, BWAHAHAHA Nov 16 14:30:03 HAHAHAHAHA Nov 16 14:30:07 no ._. Nov 16 14:32:48 DocScrutinizer05: ok works now "root" ask for password but modify file by hand... Nov 16 14:33:10 sure, it's a simple edit Nov 16 14:34:21 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/qradio/0.4.10/ depends ROOTSH bwahahaaahaaa Nov 16 14:34:56 we already went through this Nov 16 14:35:00 DocScrutinizer05: if good remember its QRadio Nov 16 14:35:24 Drathir: yep. Thanks Nov 16 14:36:12 kerio: we did? dang, seems my memory starts to drop things Nov 16 14:37:33 DocScrutinizer05: is option also to password to install app in file but works or not idk... Nov 16 14:37:57 DocScrutinizer05: the only mention of root or gainroot is a fucking system("echo 'echo 0 > /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_focus/disable' | root"); in mainwindow.cpp Nov 16 14:38:16 which is a WTF in and of itself Nov 16 14:39:12 yeah, indeed dunno what it does there Nov 16 14:39:35 there's also nothing that restores that flag Nov 16 14:39:39 so there's that Nov 16 14:39:50 also that package is one giant wtf Nov 16 14:39:54 check in debian/ Nov 16 14:41:55 s@system("echo 'echo 0 > /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_focus/disable' | root");@system("sudo echo 0>/sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_focus/disable");@ Nov 16 14:42:09 see, I did it. Delivered patch Nov 16 14:42:26 despite flu Nov 16 14:42:27 DocScrutinizer05: i little scare about install this radio with that dependencies but better app i dont see... btw thats the first app needed rootsh with all installed - strange... Nov 16 14:42:32 in less than 10 min Nov 16 14:42:55 DocScrutinizer05: you suck Nov 16 14:43:11 this is why you don't code with the flu! Nov 16 14:43:20 system() calls your shell to execute the char* you pass to it Nov 16 14:43:40 the result is that your login shell gets passed "-c" "sudo echo 0 > /sys/whatever" Nov 16 14:43:56 which is parsed as "sudo echo 0" while redirecting the output to /sys/whatever by any reasonable shell Nov 16 14:44:21 grrrr Nov 16 14:44:31 and of course, "sudo echo 0" will echo the most powerful 0 you can get on a unix system, but still doesn't help with the writing of that zero Nov 16 14:45:04 s@system("echo 'echo 0 > /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_focus/disable' | root");@@ Nov 16 14:45:05 done Nov 16 14:45:47 because why the fuck would you want to switch stations on cam focus anyway Nov 16 14:45:56 that's for entering the tasknav Nov 16 14:46:17 kerio: who knows why. Nov 16 14:46:31 tklock sets camfocus enable to 0 Nov 16 14:46:47 camfocus disable Nov 16 14:46:50 whatever. Nov 16 14:47:03 camfocus is really easy to press by accident Nov 16 14:47:10 tklock makes it so you cannot use the camfocus button while device is locked. Nov 16 14:47:10 if your n900 is in a pocket or something Nov 16 14:47:17 vi__: for good reasons Nov 16 14:47:23 kerio: not really. Nov 16 14:48:03 maybe is stupid question but not easier to do with ctrl+R ? Nov 16 14:48:10 During startup I set it to enable then chmod 444 the /sys/ entry so I can have camera focus button to skip track. Nov 16 14:48:18 When device is locked and in my pocket. Nov 16 14:48:38 I think I can only recall 1 occasion where I have accidentally skipped a track with my pocket. Nov 16 14:48:39 vi__: you're a freak Nov 16 14:48:41 you're evil Nov 16 14:48:49 NO Nov 16 14:48:53 BAD VI Nov 16 14:49:03 kerio: For disabling camera buton focus disabling? Nov 16 14:49:28 vi__: and for using it for anything except tasknav Nov 16 14:49:37 short press == tasknav Nov 16 14:49:47 long press == skip track. Nov 16 14:50:05 no camera focus tasknav would be like having a lobotomy. Nov 16 14:50:07 just use the buttons on the headset Nov 16 14:50:24 kerio: N900 only supports 1 button headset. Nov 16 14:50:37 A2DP or bust Nov 16 14:50:56 kerio: Yeah, how many mA does maintaining a BT connection take? Nov 16 14:51:07 How often do I have to charge myt headset. Nov 16 14:51:20 vi__: loads of buttons, though Nov 16 14:52:16 vi__: if good remember i look in repo something to enable headset buttons Nov 16 14:52:43 Drathir: nah, it's only one at most Nov 16 14:57:21 anyone using advanced power battery? i think about its deamon not use extra battery power? Nov 16 14:59:27 Drathir: I would think so. Nov 16 14:59:51 Drathir: Pali is cooking a replacement that is better, just need to wait till he is finished. Nov 16 15:01:03 vi__: nice i will waiting... Nov 16 15:10:48 "braek" is nice app... Nov 16 15:12:27 should be in security/anty-thieft group ^^ Nov 16 15:19:21 but sudo echo 0 will work with a root password set Nov 16 15:19:53 em, I'm quite late with that :) Nov 16 15:19:55 nvm Nov 16 15:25:05 DocScrutinizer05: i have seen somestrange behaviours i have set manual wifi connection dns but resolv dont catch it but have own 127.0.0.1 and ::1 its normal? Nov 16 15:26:44 manual ip addres works use that i set inside wifi advanced options... Nov 16 15:29:19 Drathir: yes, fremantle is using dnsmasq Nov 16 15:29:49 so etc/resolv.conf has to point to localhost aka 127.0.0.1 Nov 16 15:32:21 Drathir: real config is in /var/run/resolv* Nov 16 15:38:53 man dnsmasq Nov 16 16:05:59 Ìû Nov 16 16:18:38 * MohammadAG mumbles Nov 16 16:21:29 DocScrutinizer05: thanks i look there... Nov 16 16:22:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9UWCQi5rmfM Nov 16 16:22:13 That's a pretty neato hack Nov 16 16:22:21 completely unrelated to Maemo of course Nov 16 16:22:27 I have to live up to myself Nov 16 16:29:56 Lava_Croft: hmm, neat indeed Nov 16 16:30:04 There was an app like that on iOS Nov 16 16:30:28 (Obviously not based on heart beat, but rather how your leg moves) Nov 16 16:30:31 It would be a good way to try and force people at the gym to keep a certain pase Nov 16 16:30:34 pace* Nov 16 16:30:57 Yeah Nov 16 16:31:15 Or they could put on some classical music Nov 16 16:32:03 i do not associate gyms with fine music Nov 16 16:32:58 you can actually lose the Bluetooth watch and hrm. Nov 16 16:34:01 http://www.gradiant.org/en/news/news/577-estimacion-de-pulso-utilizando-una-webcam.html Nov 16 16:51:04 MohammadAG: hi! Nov 16 16:54:13 DocScrutinizer05: you write somthing app that show use cpu i maybe rember name of app ? Nov 16 16:54:34 something about* Nov 16 17:05:11 cpu load applet iirc Nov 16 17:05:45 cpumem-applet Nov 16 17:06:05 there's also a different package with the cpu applet and the screenshot/screen record thing in the status area Nov 16 17:06:09 which is fairly useless Nov 16 17:06:48 well, anyway that 'useless' applet is what I got and what works nice and does NOT hog cpu itself Nov 16 17:07:39 though... Nov 16 17:08:40 nah, actually both screenshot and screencast are still there in system menu Nov 16 17:08:51 on my device Nov 16 17:09:33 cpumem-applet is just the status area monitor Nov 16 17:09:43 it's the same code Nov 16 17:09:47 load-applet - Show CPU and memory usage, take screenshots, record screencasts. Nov 16 17:10:05 cpumem-applet is better Nov 16 17:10:33 apt-cache search cpu doesn't yield cpumem-applet here Nov 16 17:10:45 DocScrutinizer05: thanks i check Nov 16 17:11:10 DocScrutinizer05: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/cpumem-applet/ Nov 16 17:12:00 meh Nov 16 17:12:05 thanks anyway Nov 16 17:12:17 it's in every extras repo Nov 16 17:13:01 so why doesn't it show up in apt-cache search? Nov 16 17:13:07 ~seen vi_ Nov 16 17:13:09 vi_ is currently on #maemo (2d 4h 6m 38s). Has said a total of 143 messages. Is idling for 1d 22h 43m 56s, last said: 'PPPPIIIINNNNGGGUUUUU!'. Nov 16 17:13:12 ~seen vi__ Nov 16 17:13:13 vi__ is currently on #maemo (1d 6h 35m 32s) #maemo-ssu (1d 6h 35m 32s). Has said a total of 305 messages. Is idling for 2h 13m 22s, last said: 'Drathir: Pali is cooking a replacement that is better, just need to wait till he is finished.'. Nov 16 17:13:14 DocScrutinizer05: shows up here Nov 16 17:13:49 shows up fine here Nov 16 17:13:59 well, here not Nov 16 17:14:14 wfm, your stuff is broken Nov 16 17:14:19 DocScrutinizer05: are you sure you have an extras repo enabled? Nov 16 17:14:24 so unless it's in a repo I haven't enabled, I dunno Nov 16 17:14:25 its the first result that shows up when searching for 'cpu' Nov 16 17:14:32 kerio: >:-( Nov 16 17:16:14 http://maemo.org/packages/view/cpumem-applet/ >:-(( Nov 16 17:16:28 "it's in **every** extras repo" Nov 16 17:16:50 are you on diablo? Nov 16 17:17:24 nah, indeed there's extras too Nov 16 17:17:40 sorry, nfc why apt-cache search cpu doesn't show it Nov 16 17:20:01 sth fecked up my cache, update fixed it Nov 16 17:20:05 :3 Nov 16 17:20:10 i bet it was ham Nov 16 17:20:23 wouldn't bet against that Nov 16 17:20:29 anyway, i strongly suggest moving /var/lib/apt, /var/lib/dpkg and /var/cache/apt to /opt Nov 16 17:20:35 symlinking them works fine Nov 16 17:21:08 (it's unrelated to your problem) Nov 16 17:23:45 something messed up repo cache Nov 16 17:23:57 nfc what, maybe apt-worker got killed or sth Nov 16 17:25:22 vi___: lrn2ghost Nov 16 17:26:12 meh! [Notice] -NickServ- vi___ is not registered. Nov 16 17:34:47 I have just dpkg -i the kernel-cssu.deb form freemangordon on merlin's repo. Nov 16 17:34:55 I mean dpkg -x Nov 16 17:35:02 it contains a file called: Nov 16 17:35:14 /media/05e83d41-53d3-4ffc-bf63-c18831611532/code/maemo/RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.203.1_PR_COMBINED_203_ARM.bin Nov 16 17:35:24 zImage-2.6.28.10-cssu3.fiasco Nov 16 17:35:27 ^that one Nov 16 17:35:32 zimage... Nov 16 17:35:40 is that a regular zimage? Nov 16 17:35:50 it says fiasco at the end? Nov 16 17:36:18 Is it a strait up, down the line regular starit shooting zimage? Nov 16 17:39:06 vi_: afaik it is fiasko image Nov 16 17:41:19 vi_: but I think you can extract zImage Nov 16 17:42:06 with flasher Nov 16 17:43:35 freemangordon: aah, I understand Nov 16 17:44:02 BTW..., I think I found what else besides alarmUI leaks in systemui Nov 16 17:44:19 double-click power button to lock Nov 16 17:44:25 and slide-to-unlock Nov 16 17:44:36 freemangordon: I have created my own ideal 'ready to flash' images with 0 bloat and all the basic tweakz allready done. I am foing to make it a flashable image. Nov 16 17:44:43 freemangordon: HAH! Nov 16 17:44:46 I told you! Nov 16 17:44:52 still not sure though, it might be power key menu as well Nov 16 17:45:00 tklock thing is an epic bullshit. Nov 16 17:45:12 it is not tklock, but another plugin Nov 16 17:45:14 freemangordon: welldone! Nov 16 17:45:32 freemangordon: You are like some kind of programming jedi. Nov 16 17:45:38 though I would like if someone can confirm it, as it might be specific to my device Nov 16 17:45:48 what do you need done? Nov 16 17:45:59 check systemui heap size Nov 16 17:46:16 I have a spare device with cssu-thumb on it, but it could be flashed to stock in a few minutes. Nov 16 17:46:20 play with power button, swipe-to-unlock and such Nov 16 17:46:34 vi_: no need for stock Nov 16 17:46:50 thumb does not touch systemui daemon Nov 16 17:47:20 * freemangordon is going afk, bbl Nov 16 17:47:48 freemangordon: but what must I do??? Nov 16 17:48:08 check heap Nov 16 17:48:20 in /proc/'pidof systemui'/smaps Nov 16 17:53:17 the entry labled size? Nov 16 17:55:59 00017000-001d8000 rw-p 00017000 00:00 0 [heap] Nov 16 18:00:58 freemangordon: http://cxg.de/_767016.htm Nov 16 18:14:12 MohammadAG: Hey. Where can I find information on how to generate my own jff2 nand image? Nov 16 18:14:38 vi___: ping Stskeeps Nov 16 18:14:45 He has a page on mer about it Nov 16 18:14:48 MohammadAG: thank you. Nov 16 18:15:11 You're welcome, if i had the link i would've given it to you Nov 16 18:18:40 MohammadAG: http://mer-project.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html Nov 16 18:18:45 Thanks for the tip! Nov 16 18:19:36 vi__: The requested URL /_767016.htm was not found on this server. Nov 16 18:19:53 vi___, relevant info http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=40619 (see post #7) Nov 16 18:20:38 (and #8) Nov 16 18:21:45 vi___: it's not jffs2, it's ubifs Nov 16 18:26:15 DocScrutinizer05: can you kick vi__ Nov 16 18:27:02 cheers mate! Nov 16 18:27:06 yw Nov 16 18:27:17 freemangordon: let me try again Nov 16 18:30:21 freemangordon: http://pastebin.com/BerSNxNC Nov 16 18:30:33 cxg.de must be broken right now :/ Nov 16 18:30:46 qwazix: ty Nov 16 18:34:10 vi___, yw Nov 16 18:43:08 MentalistTraceur: ! Nov 16 18:43:19 vi___ ! Nov 16 18:43:27 I did know you were partial to an IRC. Nov 16 18:43:48 oh, of course. Council meeting. Nov 16 18:45:05 NIN102: why doesn't rescueOS ship wifi drivers? Nov 16 18:45:44 I DO sometimes get on IRC of my own volition, vi___, just not too often do I find the time. Nov 16 18:46:02 you mean firmware Nov 16 18:46:39 because I wasn't sure about the licence issues so decided rather not to get shot by nokia + it adds bloat. Nov 16 18:48:14 vi___ : to clarify my last point, the last time I got on #maemo was in the summer of this year. Nov 16 18:48:23 So, it happens... occasionally. Nov 16 18:54:14 vi___: do the values change if you lock by double-click? Nov 16 18:54:23 double-press that is Nov 16 18:54:35 esp this: Nov 16 18:54:36 Size: 1796 kB Nov 16 18:54:37 Rss: 1796 kB Nov 16 18:54:48 for [heap] is that Nov 16 18:55:07 and if you unlock by pressing the power button and swiping? Nov 16 18:55:48 hmm, what the corect way to write that? swyping? Nov 16 18:58:46 swiping. Nov 16 18:59:33 I guess swype is Nokia (tm). Correct? Nov 16 18:59:34 freemangordon: That paste was AFTER I had swiped and un/lock a couple of times. Nov 16 18:59:54 vi___: the point is - does that change Nov 16 19:00:00 freemangordon: swype is a brand that makes vkb. Nov 16 19:00:05 what was the initial value? Nov 16 19:00:10 aaah Nov 16 19:00:11 aah, yes Nov 16 19:00:13 I under stand Nov 16 19:00:18 1 sec Nov 16 19:01:59 size and Rss of what? Nov 16 19:02:06 [heap] Nov 16 19:02:26 BTW reinob posted a neat script on TMO, going to try it Nov 16 19:04:37 it grows around 48kB every couple of un/locks with swipe. Nov 16 19:04:46 yeah :( Nov 16 19:04:56 the fuck Nov 16 19:05:14 wel,, lets find someone with stock PR1.3 to confirm Nov 16 19:05:20 DocScrutinizer05: ping Nov 16 19:05:57 sorry, busy Nov 16 19:06:03 l8r Nov 16 19:06:03 vi___: can you confirm it leaks on unlock, and not on lock? Nov 16 19:06:09 DocScrutinizer05: NP Nov 16 19:06:12 freemangordon: 1 sec Nov 16 19:06:47 unfortunately reinob's script need bb-power Nov 16 19:06:51 *needs Nov 16 19:07:06 freemangordon: It grows on the unlock. Nov 16 19:07:15 ok Nov 16 19:07:26 freemangordon: what does reinob script do? Nov 16 19:07:58 ls Nov 16 19:08:17 vi___: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1295012&postcount=58 Nov 16 19:09:09 hmm, is that libsystemuiplugin_tklock.so? the one with swipe button? Nov 16 19:12:27 yeah, seems like that. and there is no x86 binary :( Nov 16 19:13:05 freemangordon: I do not think there is anyone on the face of the earth who gives a shit about that swaipe to unlock screen. Nov 16 19:13:30 besides me, that is how I unlock my devie Nov 16 19:13:33 perhaps eliminating it would be easier than fixing it? Nov 16 19:13:34 *device :) Nov 16 19:13:45 how do we eliminate it? Nov 16 19:13:46 freemangordon: wow, ok. Nov 16 19:13:51 kerio: I wish I knew. Nov 16 19:14:03 kerio: It smacks of corporate bullshit. Nov 16 19:14:07 vi___: I am trying to keep my side slide intack ;) Nov 16 19:14:21 *intact Nov 16 19:14:26 vi___: to be fair, we're spoiled Nov 16 19:14:28 Some dumbass executive said 'hey guize, we need swipe to unlock, it is what all the cool kids are using these days!'. Nov 16 19:14:32 another typo day :( Nov 16 19:14:43 the otterbox protects a lot against accidental pwrbtn presses Nov 16 19:14:55 I don;t use one Nov 16 19:15:05 freemangordon: You cant even buy one. Nov 16 19:15:18 I am even not interested :) Nov 16 19:15:26 if I can by or not that is Nov 16 19:15:30 You should be, they rule. Nov 16 19:15:42 naah, I hate those Nov 16 19:15:45 cd custom_rootfs Nov 16 19:25:33 kerio: flashable custom rootfs image: ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED Nov 16 19:26:16 :D Nov 16 19:26:44 level 2, HARD MODE: custom flashable eMMC image. Nov 16 19:27:46 kerio: My root image even contains the appropriate kernel. Nov 16 19:28:08 neat Nov 16 19:28:14 vi___: why bother, though Nov 16 19:28:17 ? Nov 16 19:28:43 kerio: So when I need to reflash 1 of my legion of n900s all the basic install/configuration is done. Nov 16 19:28:58 how have you made the rootfs? Nov 16 19:29:01 reflash? BAM, STRAIT TO THUMB. Nov 16 19:29:16 because the vast majority of the system is in /opt Nov 16 19:29:37 kerio: That is why I need to make a partner eMMC image as well. Nov 16 19:30:10 It contains flash 10, all my tweaks warez etc. Nov 16 19:30:45 Also, it turns out the magic ingredient in making SIP not suck balls is to limit the codecs it can use. Nov 16 19:33:28 LMAO. Now, there is a scientific explanation of all this shit Nov 16 19:33:35 Maintainer: Maria Starodubtseva Nov 16 19:33:37 freemangordon: ...yes? Nov 16 19:33:42 DocScrutinizer05: kerio Lava_Croft thanka also testing thats one... Nov 16 19:34:01 freemangordon: It was a woman? Nov 16 19:34:01 vi___: maintainer of osso-systemui-tklock Nov 16 19:34:13 well, I suspect she still is :P Nov 16 19:34:20 but yeah Nov 16 19:34:25 lemme check alarmui Nov 16 19:34:28 freemangordon: heh. Nov 16 19:34:34 You should email her. Nov 16 19:34:52 Package: osso-systemui-alarm Nov 16 19:34:59 Maintainer: Philippe De Swert Nov 16 19:35:33 vi___: I'll prefer is somenone with better english do that Nov 16 19:35:43 but yes, someone should mail her Nov 16 19:36:12 i'll ask on TMO Nov 16 19:36:50 maybe you could shame her into leaking secretly leaking a bunch of source cods Nov 16 19:36:56 ^code Nov 16 19:38:33 :D Nov 16 19:38:43 I doubt email is still valid Nov 16 19:40:11 i'm more concerned about the ext- rather than the gender of the developer Nov 16 19:40:33 yeah Nov 16 19:40:42 some outsorced stuff Nov 16 19:40:48 *outsourced Nov 16 19:41:40 Woody14619: o/ Nov 16 19:42:07 kerio: if that is the case, I don't balieve we'll get any help Nov 16 19:42:09 hi, vi___ . :) In maemo-meeting right now. Nov 16 19:42:11 *believe Nov 16 19:57:55 vi___: its really strange when dev is a women? Nov 16 20:06:04 Drathir: well, yes actually. Nov 16 20:06:13 I know of 0 femaile programmers. Nov 16 20:06:17 I know of 0 female programmers. Nov 16 20:06:31 i dont thinked that is really very small amount of women... Nov 16 20:08:04 anybody try downscaling the cpu stepping to improve battery live? or this is bad idea because will no visable changes... Nov 16 20:08:16 life* Nov 16 20:09:19 Drathir, is your battery life that bad? Nov 16 20:09:47 Drathir: when the cpu is idle, it's effectively at 0MHz Nov 16 20:09:53 there's a scaler, at least Nov 16 20:10:04 and the biggest power draw is the screen Nov 16 20:10:08 Drathir I restricted the maximum scaling once to keep the laptop quiet Nov 16 20:10:09 or possibly a 3G data transfer Nov 16 20:10:15 kerio, is there any way to see which applications cause the cpu to wake up? Nov 16 20:10:22 Sysaxed: powertop Nov 16 20:10:24 (forced at 600MHz it was silent) Nov 16 20:10:33 wow, that was a quick answer.. Nov 16 20:10:55 oh, heh sorry didn't notice this was #maemo :) Nov 16 20:17:49 Drathir: slowing down cpu makes battery life worse on n900 Nov 16 20:18:49 Drathir: it's called race to idle Nov 16 20:19:02 compute as fast as you can and then drop to 0 Nov 16 20:19:45 To be fair, race-to-idle has people arguing on both sides... some say it helps, some that it doesn't. :) Nov 16 20:20:27 I think it does on the N900, but only very marginally... Nov 16 20:20:40 And that can be usage pattern dependant... Nov 16 20:21:37 yep Nov 16 20:21:58 it should be worse if there's a lot of user activity Nov 16 20:22:12 and should be better if user rarely uses the phone Nov 16 20:22:16 vi__: did some measurement some time ago Nov 16 20:22:59 it turned out (according to ^^^) anything beyond 600 (iirc) makes battery life worse Nov 16 20:23:27 vi__: do you still keep that graphic? Nov 16 20:24:08 s/graphic/graph Nov 16 20:24:10 * Woody14619 nods. The tests confirmed what Titan found before him... 500-600Mhz you get the most CPU per unit of power. Nov 16 20:25:07 the same TI state in docs Nov 16 20:25:17 500 is the sweet spot Nov 16 20:25:20 But as Titan's graphs all vanished not too long after he did.... Nov 16 20:25:59 hooray for keeping stuff at external private servers :-) Nov 16 20:26:06 Yup. It's pretty flat from 500-600. Nov 16 20:26:15 (I know I know, I'm doing that as well) Nov 16 20:26:22 hehe Nov 16 20:26:23 Actually, they were on TMO, but TMO archives after a set time, and attachements get lost. Nov 16 20:26:44 dafaq Nov 16 20:26:44 Discussion stays around forever... attachements do not. Nov 16 20:27:12 that's... pretty BAD Nov 16 20:27:18 Yup. Nov 16 20:27:39 Thus the push to get all those script-kiddies posting debs to their threads to move to repos. Nov 16 20:27:42 so we should do backup of files more frequently Nov 16 20:28:02 .oO(Execept for one or two... ending in "patch") Nov 16 20:28:18 o.O Nov 16 20:28:54 pics too? embedded ones? Nov 16 20:30:19 btw say hello to MentalistTraceur :-D Nov 16 20:32:02 Heh. Greetings all. Nov 16 20:32:15 AFAIK: yes. But don't know for sure. Nov 16 20:45:46 :-) Nov 16 21:01:35 hello wild members Nov 16 21:01:55 GTK anyone? Nov 16 21:06:13 jacekowski: kerio that have a right i dont think about scalling in that side... Nov 16 21:07:00 Drathir: https://lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/ Nov 16 21:07:11 he unly grunts Nov 16 21:07:16 Drathir: and https://lesswatts.org/ in general Nov 16 21:11:09 boys... Nov 16 21:11:16 how ruined is this? http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8513/dsc00846lv.jpg Nov 16 21:12:43 is it just putting a microusb thing on there and connect to these 5 little things? Nov 16 21:16:09 looks usable Nov 16 21:16:49 Those 5 little things yeah, the others are for keeping it in place, I'd think. One of those look a bit damaged Nov 16 21:21:38 whaa :< Nov 16 21:21:56 one of these 5 things look a bit damaged? Nov 16 21:22:01 or you mean the stuff to hold them? Nov 16 21:22:07 the bottom right one? Nov 16 21:22:09 kerio: good site thanks... Nov 16 21:22:38 why nokia why didn't you do this http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7059/dsc00861un.jpg Nov 16 21:23:04 The bottom right one yeah Nov 16 21:23:46 RiD, that looks like similar design actually, unless that extra cage is throughhole :) Nov 16 21:24:19 hm.. in your original photo, are there short stubs of the original 5 pins left in the solder? :) Nov 16 21:24:57 you mean, little "pointy" things? (forgive my english, it is quite bad in mechanical terms) Nov 16 21:25:28 well, on the pic it looks like so. I'll look it up Nov 16 21:25:52 Yeah it looks like pointy things sticking out from the 5 small pads Nov 16 21:26:36 freemangordon: Got device with PR1.1 or 1.2 here Nov 16 21:26:43 freemangordon: and tklock leaks even more :) Nov 16 21:27:08 well, i can't really tell with my eyes lol Nov 16 21:27:34 Also, the other one is indeed throughhole Nov 16 21:27:44 4 things supporting that extra cage Nov 16 21:27:51 ah Nov 16 21:28:03 it's a cheap ass (terribly slow) LG phone Nov 16 21:28:23 now, what would those little pointy things mean? would that affect anything? Nov 16 21:28:32 kolp: aah, they fixed it in newer firmwares? :D:D:D Nov 16 21:28:48 freemangordon: 'fixed' it ;) Nov 16 21:29:00 yeah Nov 16 21:29:57 RiD, well I just thought it looked interesting that the solder didn't fail there, but the pins themselves broke Nov 16 21:30:02 freemangordon: Sometimes around 120kB Size & Rss EACH Nov 16 21:30:10 haven't found a real pattern yet Nov 16 21:30:15 LOL Nov 16 21:31:16 now, i'm not seeing how my father is going to connect those extremely tiny dots |: Nov 16 21:33:30 kerio: maybe you hear about 3k mAh batteries to n900? ? Nov 16 21:34:05 Drathir: you need a special backcover Nov 16 21:34:19 the backcover for the MUGEN battery Nov 16 21:34:43 which is thick enough to be able to fit two normal BL-5Js taped together Nov 16 21:34:47 i was considering buying one of those Nov 16 21:35:02 but I suppose they wouldn't work with my external charger Nov 16 21:35:04 at that point, use two 1500mAh batteries Nov 16 21:35:12 and you've got your 3Ah battery Nov 16 21:35:26 kerio: i already do :) Nov 16 21:35:44 would be neat with more power in just one battery though Nov 16 21:36:16 FIQ|n900: the best ever made so far is the akku polarcell, 1520mAh Nov 16 21:36:27 3040mAh Nov 16 21:36:39 RiD: with two of those, yes Nov 16 21:36:42 why not have 3 batteries? Nov 16 21:36:56 RiD: because two batteries actually fit, with the mugen backcover Nov 16 21:36:59 three, not so much Nov 16 21:37:08 Make it even thicker, haha Nov 16 21:37:16 RiD, does he have experience with SMT soldering Nov 16 21:37:39 vi___: what was your idea? bl-5j and bp-4l? Nov 16 21:37:56 i think so, but it's been a while and his eyes aren't the same Nov 16 21:38:05 fit two batteries at the same time??? Nov 16 21:38:05 + that thing is so small i really can't imagine it being possible O_o Nov 16 21:38:12 now how would that even work Nov 16 21:38:28 RiD, well with a hot air soldering station it'd probably be easy? Nov 16 21:38:30 FIQ|n900: mugen xl backcover, a tiny bit of soldering and a bit of tape Nov 16 21:39:00 Yeah. That's way easier :D just put a huge dot on top of it and wait for things to burn Nov 16 21:39:02 backcover feels like the least problem right now.. Nov 16 21:39:07 then have a not working N900. Nov 16 21:39:21 unfortunately that's what he's mostly used to work with. Nov 16 21:39:27 how do you just attach the two batteries to the power uh Nov 16 21:39:31 FIQ|n900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 Nov 16 21:39:32 "connection"? Nov 16 21:39:37 FIQ|n900: make them just one battery Nov 16 21:53:29 kerio: Yeah. Nov 16 21:53:46 bp-4lcomes from nokia@1650mAh. Nov 16 21:53:48 vi___: what's the biggest bp-4l you can get? Nov 16 21:53:58 Comes from mugen power@1800mAh. Nov 16 21:54:05 neat Nov 16 21:54:08 There are rumours of a 1900mAh. Nov 16 21:54:26 so polarcell bl-5j and mugen bp-4l would give you 3300mAh Nov 16 21:54:28 The BP-4l is the biggest battery you can fit in a mugen cover. Nov 16 21:54:30 ...neat Nov 16 21:54:35 kerio: More or less. Nov 16 21:54:45 Buy a mugen cover while you still can. Nov 16 21:55:00 They only cost $15 Nov 16 21:55:33 Il wager there is room for a laptop wifi patch antenna inside the cover as well... Nov 16 22:04:41 kerio: but you know someone who use is? is save for phone? Nov 16 22:38:09 what the fuck, my n900 thinks my dedicated charger is actually a usb host Nov 16 22:38:11 DocScrutinizer05: halp Nov 16 22:39:06 kerio: re switched? Nov 16 22:39:47 Drathir: re-switched? Nov 16 22:40:44 yay, rebooting fixed it Nov 16 22:41:48 kerio: I usually fix that by un-&re-plugging charger Nov 16 22:42:15 kerio: but yeah, I seem to recall I had lockups too Nov 16 22:45:21 * Drathir have funny tnings is possible that oryginall nokia charged broken? because oryginal 1.2k mAh charging power is that low then cant on the phone but earlier BB9300 oryginal rim 900mAh charging and also can switch on... Nov 16 22:46:04 wait 750mAh* Nov 16 22:46:54 dam* mA bad dict... bad... Nov 16 22:48:51 vi___: I'd not mix LiIon like BL-5J with LiPo like BP-4L Nov 16 22:49:47 vi___: you should make sure you use batteries with identical chemistry when you want to parallel them Nov 16 22:51:29 DocScrutinizer05: ...should. Nov 16 22:51:36 vi___: why not use 3 batteries? http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20120715_003.jpg Nov 16 22:52:50 Because we can only use what will fit in a mugen back door. Nov 16 22:53:13 And those 2 batteries are just too much size. Nov 16 22:53:44 no, they aren't Nov 16 22:54:05 DocScrutinizer05: nice compression of place... Nov 16 22:54:16 A mugen cover can only accomodate 40mm (iirc) width. Nov 16 22:55:34 actually I can access my notebooks online. 1 mo. I will tell you EXACTLY how much room there is in a mugen cover. Nov 16 22:55:54 BL-4C/5C/6C, should fit under any reasonably extended deepth backcover, when you remove the plastic housing and protecction circuitry, which is needed only once and gives you an additional ~5mm in cell length Nov 16 22:56:02 saves you an* Nov 16 22:57:32 WTF 40mm? what did they do to the remaining ~17mm ? Nov 16 22:58:21 63*44*6mm Nov 16 22:58:27 Sorry that was wrong. Nov 16 22:58:28 fill it with plastic? store atomic waste there? Nov 16 22:58:45 Stupid micro fail skydrive slow as frozen shit in an igloo.shit Nov 16 23:00:23 the BL-nC are ~54mm length, and it looked to me as if they'd fit pretty well into a bac cover that's just a bit deeper than the original Nov 16 23:00:28 or mod the default from outside orginal cover with only plug ooing inside phone... but made that must be smart and good planned... Nov 16 23:01:05 Drathir: That would work like shit. Nov 16 23:01:20 Drathir: A company called mugen make new covers. Nov 16 23:01:27 we had a few such 'bomblet' designs Nov 16 23:01:27 Drathir: The cover is bigger. Nov 16 23:01:50 Drathir: The cover has 63*44*6mm space inside. Nov 16 23:02:11 vi___: what's in the rest of it? Nov 16 23:02:53 vi___: yes the cover is the best idea, but in my country sad but dont find any mugen covers... Nov 16 23:02:54 * ShadowJK 'd consider BL-5J and BP-4L the same chemistry.. atleast considering there's probably bigger difference between new nokia bl-5J and the old BL-5J, compared to difference between old BL-5J and BP-4L Nov 16 23:02:59 The cover is curved on the back. Nov 16 23:03:30 vi___: WUT? Nov 16 23:03:31 Also there is space taken up by the switch to simulate the camera slider, Nov 16 23:03:40 omg Nov 16 23:04:10 DocScrutinizer05: http://mugen.s3.amazonaws.com/catalog/product/cache/5/image/3cf0ca6dbe9e7e88d6bb53bb8599e085/n/9/n900xl2_1.jpg Nov 16 23:04:44 DocScrutinizer05: I have measured the space with a caliper gauge. Nov 16 23:05:16 I see Nov 16 23:06:25 bp-4l is 66x43x5mm Nov 16 23:06:53 sou you need shorter batteries, not 55mm but 40mm Nov 16 23:07:55 hmm, no, you need bp-4l :-D Nov 16 23:07:55 DocScrutinizer05: ~40mm with the PCB removed. Nov 16 23:08:10 DocScrutinizer05: Now you see! Nov 16 23:08:28 Drathir: You must buy from mugen website. Nov 16 23:09:03 Drathir: They will send all over the world, for money. Nov 16 23:09:35 vi___: maybe you can find some cell that's a 1mm thicker Nov 16 23:09:49 should give 20% more capacity Nov 16 23:10:05 DocScrutinizer05: Perhaps. Unfortunatley only nokia battery dimensions are well documented. Nov 16 23:10:22 is there a bp-5l maybe? Nov 16 23:11:26 67*45*5mm Nov 16 23:12:01 Perhaps if you stripped the label off you could squeeze that last bit. Nov 16 23:12:13 Actually the battery has a curved edge. Nov 16 23:12:30 It would perhaps fit nicely into the cover. Nov 16 23:13:18 The 44mm measurement is minimum width measured at the bottom of the curve. Nov 16 23:13:38 strange. Nokia's funny. BL-4C and 5C and 6C are same length and width, just each a tad thicker than the other Nov 16 23:13:57 It is still only rated at 1500mAh. Nov 16 23:14:04 The same as the best bl-5j Nov 16 23:16:39 ShadowJK: (chemistry) what if one cell has a U/tmp rate of 5mV/°C and the other 15mV/°C ? Nov 16 23:17:37 for some reason, sometimes contacts duplicate, and appear new contacts with IM accounts, and original contacts loose that IM account Nov 16 23:18:00 strange Nov 16 23:18:37 is anyone experiencing that? its always been like that Nov 16 23:18:54 DocScrutinizer05, the Z will play a bigger part Nov 16 23:18:57 not using IM, so can't help. sorry Nov 16 23:19:14 thanks DocScrutinizer05 Nov 16 23:19:15 amospalla: if you disable, then re-enable an account it will happen. Nov 16 23:19:28 ShadowJK: when cells heat up, the one will charge the other, which makes both heat up even more Nov 16 23:19:39 vi___: and so, that applies, to group status, I guess Nov 16 23:19:46 DocScrutinizer05: There is an 1800mAh Mugen BP-4L. I will wager it is a tiny bit thicker. Nov 16 23:19:46 I use these Nov 16 23:19:55 vi___: thanks Nov 16 23:20:04 hm Nov 16 23:20:44 vi___, the mugen BP-5L was a bit thinner than nokia BP-5L. Also, the Mugen BP-5L is 1200mAh. (Advertised 1800 on their site). :) Nov 16 23:23:28 DocScrutinizer05, the anode and cathode will still be made of the same materials, the electrolyte in polymer battery would be different, but that probably only mostly affects how the battery's internal impedance across the temperature and load range varies? Nov 16 23:23:31 ShadowJK: I'm not saying this must inevitably result in a problem, but I'm *very* cautious with connecting in parallel different cell types Nov 16 23:25:11 I don't think the chemistry difference is much bigger than that of a battery manufactured today and a battery manufacturered last year to the same nominal specs Nov 16 23:25:12 ShadowJK: Mugen bastards! Nov 16 23:25:34 How the FUCK did this utter goon get an n950? Nov 16 23:25:39 http://www.blackphoebe.com/msjen/2012/07/nokia-n950-how-to-op.html Nov 16 23:25:48 read the last comment. Nov 16 23:26:03 ShadowJK: I'd also strongly discourage anybody to connect batteries of different age Nov 16 23:26:14 DocScrutinizer05: definatle. Nov 16 23:26:52 DocScrutinizer05, yes :) Nov 16 23:29:12 how somebody can come up with BS like that Nov 16 23:29:23 batteries never have 3.7V exactly Nov 16 23:29:37 typical "3.7V" is charged to 4.2 iirc Nov 16 23:30:54 Well, 3.7V is the midpoint between 3.2 and 4.2. Panasonic has batteries that have useful energy, and doesn't sustain damage down to 2.8 or so, and those might be labeled as 3.6V nominal. LG has batteries that are stable up to 4.35V, and those get labeled 3.8V... or it might be 3.8V because there's no energy left after 3.4V? Nov 16 23:30:54 jacekowski: Yup. Nov 16 23:31:44 Either way, let us mock her ignorance of our culture. Nov 16 23:31:46 in any case, the "normal" 3.2 - 4.2 range of N900 is pretty "safe" for all these things, you just don't get the full rated capacity Nov 16 23:32:15 jacekowski: hm? Nov 16 23:32:32 jacekowski: BS like what? Nov 16 23:33:52 ooh, MsJen Nov 16 23:34:39 ShadowJK: iirc N900 can take like 30V over usb Nov 16 23:34:58 or whatever bq24150 can do Nov 16 23:35:19 surely there is some form of over voltage protection? Nov 16 23:35:30 jacekowski, I meant that the thresholds used by N900's battery management of 3.2 being empty and 4.2 for full, is perfectly compatible with the 3.8V batteries Nov 16 23:35:40 Some zeners or something. Nov 16 23:36:00 gtg Nov 16 23:36:03 gn Nov 16 23:36:04 N900 will smoke up on >20V, but probably suffers damage at 12V already Nov 16 23:37:31 since VBUS detection pin from GAIA isn't really protected against overvoltage, and GAIA has not the nice high tolerance against OV like bq24150 Nov 16 23:40:51 sad that HAM dont have list export option... Nov 16 23:42:00 list export? Nov 16 23:43:52 Drathir: I think there are other ways to get all the lists you might ever want. Just specify what exactly you're after Nov 16 23:44:13 DocScrutinizer05: yes installed aplication list Nov 16 23:44:35 create a backup and check the .tgz Nov 16 23:44:42 yes i know that apt can do that Nov 16 23:44:53 there's a fine list of installed apps Nov 16 23:45:15 (built-in hildon backup app) Nov 16 23:45:58 actually not apt but dpkg -L Nov 16 23:46:03 -l ? Nov 16 23:46:05 DocScrutinizer05: ok i have but not jet checking insde backups Nov 16 23:46:15 yet* Nov 16 23:58:52 DocScrutinizer05: appdownloader have something other than HAM ? or it is only the gui? Nov 17 00:00:29 appdownloader? never heard of Nov 17 00:03:57 might be some kinky chimera between a webbrowser for http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ and the one-click installer files there that control HAM in the end Nov 17 00:05:42 Drathir: there's basically only the 3 well known repositories to get any apps from Nov 17 00:07:07 Drathir: well, there's also http://store.ovi.com/ but I ignored that pretty much all the time since I got N900 Nov 17 00:08:45 since WTF needs >>Aliya's seductive photoshoot< DocScrutinizer05: ok i understand now looking other usefull app Nov 17 00:16:52 one thing wchich annoying me is startup noka sound Nov 17 00:17:05 ~jrtools Nov 17 00:17:05 extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Nov 17 00:17:46 you even get a cute "DONT PANIC" startup animation there Nov 17 00:18:12 no sound! ;-D Nov 17 00:18:54 but interesting why dont have option inside menu by default Nov 17 00:19:19 Nokia wants to make sure their branding isn't too easy to remove Nov 17 00:19:54 my second 6230i have ^^ Nov 17 00:20:13 but yes proppably that is the reason Nov 17 00:29:25 DocScrutinizer05: interesting builid-in player can stream avi but cant mp4 and mp3... Nov 17 00:32:50 * ShadowJK can stream mp3 Nov 17 00:39:58 ShadowJK: maybe was something broked i dont check after flashing... lets me see... Nov 17 00:40:49 Alot of the stations in the default "Internet Radio" category are mp3 Nov 17 00:44:07 cant... maybe https:// is a reason... Nov 17 00:44:55 stream files from webserver i mean... Nov 17 00:45:08 yeah Nov 17 00:50:29 FSCK U akonadi! Nov 17 00:50:53 kmail refuses to even start Nov 17 00:52:00 kde4 is utterly useless Nov 17 00:52:37 flakes rushed in and wrecked it Nov 17 00:53:15 * kolp doesn't use it anymore for exactly that reason :( Nov 17 00:56:42 I dunno what's wrong with recent generation of coders. Too much videogame playing, too much windows in their youth? WHAT? The devels originalls designing KDE1 and KDE2 and even 3 did a pretty good job. Now we got this horse shit Nov 17 00:59:08 and I got no working mail anymore Nov 17 01:01:08 I've tried twice to use it, but it scared me Nov 17 01:02:19 I kinda liked the idea of Akonadi back when it was suggested Nov 17 01:02:29 But now... Nov 17 01:09:49 * DocScrutinizer05 shouts FSCKIT and installs KDE3 Nov 17 01:10:16 * nox- sticks to goo ol mutt Nov 17 01:10:20 good Nov 17 01:10:40 _that_ at least has never eaten mail for me Nov 17 01:11:14 (and i can ssh to the box i run it on from the n900 too) Nov 17 01:11:27 eaten mail? HAH! this idiot pile of S* showed same mail 40 times, 39 times greyed out Nov 17 01:11:38 haha Nov 17 01:11:59 nfc what greyed out mail means or is worth for Nov 17 01:12:08 DocScrutinizer05: what about GNOME3? :) Nov 17 01:12:20 noway Nov 17 01:12:24 or u-u-u-Unity? Nov 17 01:12:57 as for KDE vs Gnome, KDE is still the saner choice :) Nov 17 01:13:03 https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ Nov 17 01:13:21 it used to be KDE4 vs Gnome 2 Nov 17 01:13:48 until Ubuntu came to the party Nov 17 01:15:09 nox-: themes can break on update, really sounds like java runtime problems Nov 17 01:15:19 ubuntu also brought us x starting w/o cursor and w black background and ctrl-alt-backspace disabled... Nov 17 01:17:13 jon_y, the bigger prob is the mindset `we need to disallow customizations...' Nov 17 01:17:42 I want my CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE back Nov 17 01:18:23 Option "XkbOptions" "compose:rwin,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp" Nov 17 01:18:31 I can't understand that no-customize mindset Nov 17 01:18:39 * nox- neither Nov 17 01:19:25 If I wanted iOS, I would use an iPhone Nov 17 01:19:30 indeed Nov 17 01:20:11 also http://xkcd.com/424/ Nov 17 01:21:28 lol Ubuntu Nov 17 01:26:54 nox-: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes <- sounds like a business grad got control of the engineering department Nov 17 01:27:21 yeah maybe thats it... Nov 17 01:27:26 with all that micromanagement that you see from the daily WTF Nov 17 01:28:06 I'm not seeing why Gnome is controlling the backend GTK Nov 17 01:28:45 GTK is mostly used as a low level GUI toolkit Nov 17 01:29:23 if they want consistent, do another higer level library for gnome windowing and dialog styles Nov 17 01:37:37 kde3-for-suse12.1 - kiss my ass goodbye, plasma, akonadi, whatnot else Nov 17 01:41:31 jon_y: you didn't know about buntkuh? Nov 17 01:41:35 ~buntkuh Nov 17 01:41:36 somebody said buntkuh was http://xkcd.com/424/ ... Redmond, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holstein-Rind Nov 17 01:41:46 what are those? Nov 17 01:42:17 Holstein... does it involve royalty? Nov 17 01:42:40 sorry? Nov 17 01:42:43 no, just cows Nov 17 01:42:46 moooo Nov 17 01:43:23 afaik, Holstein is somwehere North in Germany Nov 17 01:43:29 yep Nov 17 01:43:48 and possibly vo Holstein house of nobles Nov 17 01:43:54 *von Holstein Nov 17 01:44:03 and their checkered cows are one example of a buntkuh Nov 17 01:44:15 ? Nov 17 01:44:32 buntkuh == checkered cow Nov 17 01:44:45 oh ok, I see Nov 17 01:44:58 some branding? :) Nov 17 01:45:14 kuh = cow, bunt = colored Nov 17 01:45:56 what language is that? Nov 17 01:46:03 so, Uh BuntKu(h) Nov 17 01:46:12 german Nov 17 01:46:37 "It is black and white due to artificial selection by the breeders." Nov 17 01:46:57 sounds like canonical, right Nov 17 01:46:58 so that relates to Gnome and their artificial branding? Nov 17 01:47:01 ;-P Nov 17 01:47:02 ok Nov 17 01:48:07 well, I just wondered if you never before heard of that xkcd strip Nov 17 01:48:32 I don't really follow xkcd religiously, just occasionally Nov 17 01:48:36 since I invoke ~buntkuh every now and then Nov 17 01:49:16 nox-'s like sounds like Canonical/Ubuntu/Gnome3 is having an ego trip Nov 17 01:49:17 "just windows with a few custom themes" Nov 17 01:49:52 I had exactly one friend who liked the Ububtu Unity theme :) Nov 17 01:50:05 ubuntu always tried to be the cheaper windows rather than the better differnet OS Nov 17 01:50:29 I always found it funky when it won't allow multiple terminals Nov 17 01:50:39 if I want windows UX, I get me the original Nov 17 01:50:44 it would not have been annoying if the term emulator allowed tabs Nov 17 01:50:58 even Windows allow multiple cmd prompts Nov 17 01:51:18 when I decide to use linux, I don't want it to mimick windows Nov 17 01:52:28 good thing I have no preconception that it should work like Windows, since I run it in a headless VM most of the time Nov 17 01:52:52 SSH is the best invention of 20th century computing Nov 17 01:55:19 yay! total download size: 938MB. texlive:264MB Nov 17 01:56:07 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders whether to check out this tex thing eventually Nov 17 02:14:08 ok, there it is: Kontakt-KDE3 Nov 17 02:24:40 MEANWHILE: Indian School Textbook Says Meat-Eaters Lie and Commit Sex Crimes Nov 17 02:24:55 Indeed, they do, all the time Nov 17 02:30:37 I am reminded of: Nov 17 02:31:45 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176777/Sickness-benefits-Quarter-claiming-sickness-benefits-criminal-record.html Nov 17 02:32:07 which is an example of why many politicians need set on fire. Nov 17 02:32:55 yes, nearly a quarter of disabled people have a criminal record. Nov 17 02:33:17 and indeed the able bodied have slightly more criminal records. Nov 17 02:44:35 SpeedEvil: All those offenders are meat eaters though, I am sure Nov 17 02:44:47 SpeedEvil: So Indians are still correct! =) Nov 17 02:46:41 our government has been spinning disabled benefit claimants as workshy scroungers, using the dosgiest of statistics to provide cover for upcoming 20% cuts. Nov 17 02:46:51 quite odious. Nov 17 02:53:41 SpeedEvil: Well, see, you can't feed them all because that will be socialism (and every politician hates that). You cannot kill them off because of the western liberal values. Nov 17 02:54:06 SpeedEvil: You cannot exile them to Australia for obvious reasons Nov 17 02:55:25 SpeedEvil: And there are no worthy enemies left to declare war on, I mean the ones that will not nuke you but will massacre sizable amounts of your able bodied males Nov 17 02:55:42 So, yeah, hard situation indeed. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 17 03:00:00 2012