**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 21 02:59:58 2012 Nov 21 03:04:37 miredo also is needed for ipv6? Nov 21 08:11:59 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Nov 21 08:12:52 Morning Nov 21 08:25:31 moin Nov 21 08:36:51 moin Nov 21 08:39:48 hm why does google searching for slush12 only yield in twitter results? Nov 21 08:42:06 DocScrutinizer51: I suspected it might be some murata connector. Nov 21 08:47:37 merlin1991, their website is slush.fi but it's down... Nov 21 08:47:48 but jolla.com is live with a stream Nov 21 08:48:07 qwazix: yeah, and the social media plugin below the livestream has each entry twice xD Nov 21 08:55:14 merlin1991: Is the jolla announcement today? Nov 21 08:55:37 vi____: at least the have varius post that look like "#T-5" Nov 21 09:00:26 vi____: yeah, 5 minutes to go or something Nov 21 09:01:10 http://new.livestream.com/slushlive/mainstage this shows stuff Nov 21 09:02:49 and for those at work who cannot watch, you will make many cynical comments on irc pls? Nov 21 09:02:53 sure Nov 21 09:02:58 as in, it just broke Nov 21 09:03:02 "please wait" Nov 21 09:03:31 tadzik: maybe because they are haivng a break... jolla.com has the same stream in a higher quality; it works now too Nov 21 09:03:41 thedead1440: yeah, seems to be running now Nov 21 09:03:42 s/haivng/having Nov 21 09:03:54 SLUSH SLUSH SLUSH is the only thing to be seen :) Nov 21 09:07:04 oh god. pls have a kbd, pls have a kbd, pls have a kbd, pls have a kbd, pls have a kbd, pls have a kbd, . Nov 21 09:07:13 (: Nov 21 09:07:37 live: audience is getting bored, stood up, is talking to each other Nov 21 09:08:01 The world has enough touch screen only shitters. Nov 21 09:09:11 while we're at it, I think there's a room for improvement in keyboard-typing Nov 21 09:09:31 "touch screen only shitters" have lots of stuff like this swype thing, predicting next words etc. Why don't we? Nov 21 09:09:58 I started some proof-of-concept work, and convinced my N900 to autocomplete "are" to "are we going for a beer?" Nov 21 09:10:04 I think it's promising :) Nov 21 09:10:19 oh, there's someone on the stage Nov 21 09:11:48 "android app compatibility is confirmed in QA in the wiki" - wtf Nov 21 09:11:59 qwazix: o/ Nov 21 09:12:11 vi____, hey Nov 21 09:13:56 wifi is really flakey here... Nov 21 09:16:54 Jolla guy comes up Nov 21 09:17:46 okay, make it plural Nov 21 09:18:12 do you have any non flash jolla stream? Nov 21 09:19:28 Star Trek quotes Nov 21 09:19:59 dafuq Nov 21 09:20:13 they put sailfish on lots of hardware it seems Nov 21 09:20:26 * merlin1991 hopes there'll be a less marketing like presentation at some point Nov 21 09:20:43 patience, grasshoper ;) Nov 21 09:22:37 tadzik: nah I'm here for the details, no intrest in marketing talk Nov 21 09:24:04 tadzik: ...yes Nov 21 09:24:05 Er. This entire thing is about marketing, you know that ;) Nov 21 09:24:17 we know mer runs on lots of hardware. Nov 21 09:24:24 hardware with...a keyboard? Nov 21 09:24:25 mer, yes Nov 21 09:26:01 'Sailfish UI demo presentation (GMT: 15:00-16:00)' Nov 21 09:26:16 So they are not actually showing any hardware today? Nov 21 09:26:56 possibly Nov 21 09:27:05 he only mentioned UI demo so far Nov 21 09:27:26 "we'll show you what you're all been waiting for, the UI" Nov 21 09:27:37 UI demo is in 3 hours! Nov 21 09:27:44 now they're working about China and partnerships Nov 21 09:27:45 sorry, 6 hours! Nov 21 09:28:36 I wonder if this guy is actually holding a Jolla device now :) Nov 21 09:28:47 as a clicker and notekeeper Nov 21 09:28:55 Does it have a keyboard? Nov 21 09:29:01 Does it have a d-pad? Nov 21 09:29:10 What about 2x SD card slots? Nov 21 09:29:16 FULLSIZE. Nov 21 09:34:59 tadzik: what is he showing now? Nov 21 09:35:15 vi____: smalltalking about how awesome they are Nov 21 09:35:30 "we're talking with chinese guys, blabla" Nov 21 09:35:36 "opensource, opensource, opensource, opensourc" Nov 21 09:35:39 tadzik: are they ragging on nokia at all? Nov 21 09:35:46 nope Nov 21 09:35:49 developers, developers, developers! Nov 21 09:35:59 oh and "we're so awesome we port Sailfish to new hardware overnight" Nov 21 09:36:08 open source like open source or open source like maemo? Nov 21 09:36:16 tadzik: seems like the marketing talk isn't workign on you :P Nov 21 09:36:18 fuck if I know Nov 21 09:36:28 vi_ they are proclaiming the former not latter Nov 21 09:36:43 merlin1991: well, I'm here for the details as well :) Nov 21 09:37:13 merlin1991: they've spent half a year saying "we're creating new meego!", I already got the "we're awesome" point ;) Nov 21 09:37:39 Meh, I can boot netbsd on my toilet in less than an hour. Nov 21 09:37:42 Get on with it. Nov 21 09:37:50 now they go "buy our t-shirt, buy our t-shirts" Nov 21 09:37:58 what? Nov 21 09:37:58 Star Wars quotes now Nov 21 09:38:02 They are selling tshirts? Nov 21 09:38:12 yeah, 30€ one or something Nov 21 09:38:18 o0 Nov 21 09:38:24 oh, this is interesting Nov 21 09:38:31 ...yes Nov 21 09:38:32 hm I should get all cssu developers onto some conference and make a presentation that just contains "we're awesome" :D Nov 21 09:38:56 merlin1991: Don't worry, everyone knows you guys are awesome/ Nov 21 09:39:13 tadzik: What is interesting???? Nov 21 09:39:24 Has it got a keyboard? Nov 21 09:39:28 vi____: well, he's clearly distinguishing Sailfish and Jolla Nov 21 09:39:40 "We want Sailfish in other vendors' phones" Nov 21 09:40:23 bah joiko again Nov 21 09:40:36 tadzik: How about they put it in their own damn phone first. Nov 21 09:40:36 I bet it's going to be some f00bar kernel module and wep only Nov 21 09:40:36 for a moment I thought that he's implying that Sailfish to Jolla-Sailfish is like Chromium to Chrome Nov 21 09:40:40 with a keyboard. Nov 21 09:40:52 oh shit. Nov 21 09:40:57 AEGIS. Nov 21 09:41:11 AEGIS??? Nov 21 09:41:23 Sailfish. Has. Aegis??? Nov 21 09:41:28 YES Nov 21 09:41:36 fffffffuuuuuuuuu Nov 21 09:41:37 lets start this rumour right here, right now. Nov 21 09:41:38 pardon me, what's aegis? Nov 21 09:41:45 oh, a rumour, sorry Nov 21 09:41:49 OMG AEGIS Nov 21 09:41:54 oh, a romour :P Nov 21 09:42:03 ~aegis Nov 21 09:42:03 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif Nov 21 09:42:07 FFS AEGIS IN THE NEW JOLLA FONE? Nov 21 09:42:49 rofl android logo on the last layer at some point Nov 21 09:42:59 there was a video with UI Nov 21 09:43:07 what is it like? Nov 21 09:43:08 looked like WIndows Phone to me Nov 21 09:43:14 pardon my blasphemy Nov 21 09:43:23 is it functional or JUMBO GAY nonsense? Nov 21 09:43:27 maybe that was not their ui Nov 21 09:43:39 tbh it looked nice minimalistic, untill it came to something like a homescreen Nov 21 09:43:42 nah, the video was "the microphone broke, let's show a video" Nov 21 09:44:08 okay, they're getting to the point Nov 21 09:44:18 there'll be devices Nov 21 09:44:27 or not Nov 21 09:44:48 camera is shite Nov 21 09:44:54 show the friggin slides Nov 21 09:45:15 yeah Nov 21 09:46:05 behaves like nemo a bit Nov 21 09:46:29 link to the video? Nov 21 09:47:02 jolla.comn Nov 21 09:47:13 oh that's nice Nov 21 09:47:25 you can control the application while it's "minimized" Nov 21 09:47:30 tbh i looks like harmattane Nov 21 09:47:34 -e Nov 21 09:47:52 s/.i/ it/ Nov 21 09:48:33 "True multitasking, true multitasking, true multitasking" Nov 21 09:48:46 This does not bode well for hardware keyboard enthusiasts. Nov 21 09:48:57 Will it come with an 80x25 xterm? Nov 21 09:49:09 I don't mind touscreen being useful Nov 21 09:49:34 Yes, I actually prefer my touchscreens to be useful as oppose to totally fucking worthless. Nov 21 09:50:23 aaand it's over Nov 21 09:50:24 What are they doing now? Nov 21 09:50:38 wut? Nov 21 09:50:46 Where is the keyboard? Nov 21 09:50:50 SDK 10 o'clock tomorrow Nov 21 09:50:55 there was no device Nov 21 09:50:56 -_- Nov 21 09:51:03 it is another stinker. Nov 21 09:51:45 they've said before they are not making phones to hacker, but to common people Nov 21 09:52:03 I don't expect qwerty phone from them anytime soon Nov 21 09:52:07 But common people are retard suck bags. Nov 21 09:52:42 Money. Nov 21 09:52:56 Common people cannot tell the difference between PC hardware and 'windows'. Nov 21 09:53:05 They wouldn't survive with a niche phone, especially at the launch Nov 21 09:53:07 common people bring revenue Nov 21 09:53:28 I know, I know. Nov 21 09:53:36 I just wanted to believe. Nov 21 09:53:56 vi____: want a one minute yt video? Nov 21 09:54:04 there's one on jolla.com now Nov 21 09:54:19 tadzik: I will view it later. Nov 21 09:54:37 tadzik: Thank you for your commentary. Nov 21 09:54:37 There's still hope they will release one later on, or that some other company make qwerty phone with the same OS Nov 21 09:55:15 merlin1991: I think the android logo was meant to imply that they can run android apps Nov 21 09:55:23 there was some rumour about it before Nov 21 09:55:29 tadzik: Apparently it can. Nov 21 09:55:30 No. Fucking. Phone announce?? Nov 21 09:55:41 no Nov 21 09:55:47 dude, phones are expensive Nov 21 09:55:56 where would they get one, it's a startup ;) Nov 21 09:56:02 So? :P Nov 21 09:56:13 tadzik: Are you suggesting that they do not actually have a phone? Nov 21 09:56:28 vi____: I wouldn't be surprised Nov 21 09:56:36 Motherfuckers. Nov 21 09:56:51 one of the guys said "don't get too excited about the hardware", like in "what we're showing is just a prototype" Nov 21 09:56:59 =( Nov 21 09:57:11 "what we're not showing is just a prototype" Nov 21 09:57:21 So right now they have about as much sucess, if not less than tizen? Nov 21 09:57:36 I've never seen tizen in action. So you may be right :> Nov 21 09:58:08 things we do know: Nov 21 09:58:18 - there's an OS Nov 21 09:58:30 It probably has something like AEGIS. Nov 21 09:58:37 wtf is this AEGIS thing? Nov 21 09:58:49 ~aegis Nov 21 09:58:49 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif Nov 21 09:58:59 -It DOES have some form of Android compatibility layer. Nov 21 09:59:17 tadzik: AEGIS is part of the reason the N9 sucks so much. Nov 21 09:59:21 okay Nov 21 09:59:25 no, we don't know if they do Nov 21 09:59:30 now are you serious or are you trolling? Nov 21 09:59:31 they didn't show it live Nov 21 09:59:48 It says so on their website FFS. Nov 21 09:59:49 heck we have an android compatability layer on harm and on maemo :D Nov 21 10:00:04 DocScrutinizer05: Yes I am being serious, AEGIS sucks. Nov 21 10:00:14 now I finally know why they never dared to hire me Nov 21 10:00:30 DocScrutinizer05: did you apply? Nov 21 10:00:36 sure Nov 21 10:00:41 Aegis sucks indeed Nov 21 10:01:00 https://sailfishos.org/wiki/QA Nov 21 10:01:03 though before everybody else did, and not formally but directly in IRQ /query Nov 21 10:01:14 "Will you support DRM? No." Nov 21 10:01:21 this looks good ^^^^ Nov 21 10:01:22 DocScrutinizer05: You applied for a job...through IRC? Nov 21 10:01:31 vi____: why not? Nov 21 10:01:43 You wore a suit while you did it right? Nov 21 10:01:48 What is your open source contribution model? – Sailfish OS is based on Mer and Qt which are already existing and known open-source projects with good contribution policies. Nov 21 10:01:54 great way to tell nothing at all Nov 21 10:02:00 I'm always aplying thru IRC for the *good* jobs Nov 21 10:03:05 vi____: how would you apply for a job with a company that has not even a website? Nov 21 10:03:11 via snail mail? Nov 21 10:03:24 ooh, no snail mail addr either Nov 21 10:03:31 twitter maybe Nov 21 10:03:33 (: Nov 21 10:09:44 DocScrutinizer05, there's a careers email. . . . Nov 21 10:10:38 GeneralAntilles: that came up weeks or months after I applied Nov 21 10:11:50 at a time where they must have finished prototypes already, so nothing left to do for me anymore Nov 21 10:12:08 hm didn't they initally say something like first phone fall 2012? Nov 21 10:12:20 [11:11] Does Sailfish have something like AEGIS? Nov 21 10:12:29 [11:11] Timo: Nov 21 10:12:31 no Nov 21 10:14:04 merlin1991, announcement was end of 2012 Nov 21 10:14:40 yep Nov 21 10:15:15 that's why I think they suck even if they now would consider hiring a hw-wizard like me Nov 21 10:16:47 unimpressed Skry is unimpressed, but I did like the font they are using :) Nov 21 10:17:31 plus they obviously seem to follow same policy to throw drivers and middleware stuff over the wall 4 weeks after rolling out their hw Nov 21 10:18:00 Skry, Helvetica Light? Nov 21 10:18:17 The design reminds me a lot of Harmattan and Android ICS, though. Nov 21 10:18:35 Especially the image viewer - it's almost exactly like the N9's. Nov 21 10:18:35 :-/ Nov 21 10:18:57 thought as much Nov 21 10:19:28 So, when do we see the hardware in action? Nov 21 10:19:45 Hurrian: There is no hardware. Nov 21 10:19:46 From the preview, it looks like they're using some kind of swipe-heavy UI Nov 21 10:21:20 guys, don't know how it is abroad, bet we have a saying here - no way to make a new whorehouse with he old hookers ;) Nov 21 10:21:25 *the Nov 21 10:21:31 Hurrian: was it helvetica light? :o anyways it looked good, nicely hintend etc Nov 21 10:21:46 Skry, I am pretty sure it's Helvetica Light. Nov 21 10:22:04 freemangordon: so very true Nov 21 10:22:06 The UI looks like it uses Helvetica everywhere Nov 21 10:22:21 Oh, and the Sailfish logo looks like the Seagate logo for some reason. Nov 21 10:23:00 freemangordon: That is an excellent phrase. I shall use it in my next work metting. Nov 21 10:23:58 vi____: and sooo true :) Nov 21 10:24:20 freemangordon: Do you know if it is possible to use a chroot in scratchbox? Nov 21 10:24:52 chroot in chroot? Nov 21 10:24:58 yeah. Nov 21 10:25:02 chrootception. Nov 21 10:25:21 don;t see a reason why not, but you'd better ask someone else Nov 21 10:26:48 freemangordon: hehe, what country is that? (the whorehouse proverb) Nov 21 10:29:26 aaah. fakeroot chroot. Nov 21 10:29:44 tadzik: well, the original is бардак, google transaltes it as whorehouse Nov 21 10:30:52 tadzik: Bulgaria is the country Nov 21 10:31:02 hm. I may recognize the word when I hear it, but the only thing I can read in cyrilic is 3EHNT Nov 21 10:31:16 THESE LETTERS MAKE NO SENSE. Nov 21 10:31:27 ЗЕНИТ Nov 21 10:31:32 :P Nov 21 10:31:40 yeah, this :) Nov 21 10:31:43 the camera Nov 21 10:31:46 it is И not N Nov 21 10:31:48 yeah Nov 21 10:31:48 eastern madspeak. Nov 21 10:31:50 I know Nov 21 10:31:59 И is not in my keyboard layout Nov 21 10:32:03 I have Ń and ń though ;) Nov 21 10:32:05 copypasta Nov 21 10:32:24 ´n Nov 21 10:32:28 silly keyboard Nov 21 10:32:50 (´ー` ) Nov 21 10:33:06 ._. Nov 21 10:34:33 you're trolling with Aegis, are you now? Nov 21 10:36:39 URL to a proper quote or I'll tag you as trolls Nov 21 10:36:59 there was nothing about aegis Nov 21 10:39:03 DocScrutinizer05: Aegis accusation was a joke. Nov 21 10:39:40 do you know if sailfish has aegis (or aegis like sw)? Nov 21 10:39:51 there was nothing about it in the news Nov 21 10:42:34 there only been the scary term "productized OS" Nov 21 10:44:35 wtf. My N900 just rebooted Nov 21 10:44:44 lol Nov 21 10:44:46 maybe it's jealous of this jolla presentation Nov 21 10:45:05 what was the way to check the reason of the last shutdown? Nov 21 10:45:14 bootstate Nov 21 10:45:18 cat /proc/bootreason Nov 21 10:45:30 tadzik: maybe you shouldn't cat /dev/kmem all the time Nov 21 10:45:42 damn, caught in the act Nov 21 10:45:49 oh wtf Nov 21 10:46:02 it was plugged in all the time, and now it says "battery is dead" and powers down Nov 21 10:46:04 tadzik: bootloop? Nov 21 10:46:07 no Nov 21 10:46:14 it was charging overnight Nov 21 10:46:16 working this morning Nov 21 10:46:23 I didn't unplug it in the last 12 hours or so Nov 21 10:46:31 o.O Nov 21 10:46:48 you're sure it was actually *charging*? Nov 21 10:46:55 it said the battery's full Nov 21 10:47:04 hmm, fair enough Nov 21 10:47:05 even 5 minutes ago Nov 21 10:47:55 clean battery contacts Nov 21 10:50:01 tadzik: though I think I got you wrong - it *said* "battery full" 5 minutes ago? Nov 21 10:50:19 no, well Nov 21 10:50:21 so you plugged it in to a charger 5 min ago and it displayed that notice? Nov 21 10:50:23 it was displaying full battery Nov 21 10:50:32 it said "battery full" somewhere around midnight Nov 21 10:50:45 I didn't unplug it Nov 21 10:52:22 tadzik: bme-replacement? Nov 21 10:52:43 no, I've got the stock thing Nov 21 10:53:08 no better idea here than to repeat "clean battery contacts" Nov 21 10:53:29 yeah, did that, trying to boot it now Nov 21 10:54:23 you might as well encounter one of the rare sudden cell deaths Nov 21 10:55:17 bootreason says sw_rst Nov 21 10:55:26 where battery has a semi decent capacity, and correct voltage, but way too high impedance, so voltage drops way too low when high load applied Nov 21 10:55:52 sw_rst is a but fuzzy Nov 21 10:55:56 bit* Nov 21 10:56:16 just means the sw decided to reboot Nov 21 10:56:26 yeah Nov 21 10:56:33 so at least it wasn't wd or power button Nov 21 10:56:34 so it may have thought "oh, battery low" Nov 21 10:56:45 :nod: Nov 21 10:57:46 you by any chance could run bq27200.sh? Nov 21 10:57:56 I can try Nov 21 10:58:03 (the device is charging now) Nov 21 10:58:48 where do I get that? Nov 21 10:59:20 you might want to run `bq27200.sh 60 >>~/MyDocs/bat.log` during the next days Nov 21 10:59:52 tadzik: you need i2ctools installed Nov 21 11:00:38 obtw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHn3qp_E3_A Sailfish on N950 Nov 21 11:01:20 then you could find bq27200.sh e.g. here: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27200.sh Nov 21 11:07:52 tadzik: damn. Nov 21 11:08:15 tadzik, tee hee hee. Nov 21 11:08:26 so it's running on mer. Like nemo Nov 21 11:08:30 so it may as well run on n900 Nov 21 11:08:38 (I hope :>) Nov 21 11:09:02 tadzik: it will run on the N900, 3430 has support for all instruction sets on 3630. Nov 21 11:09:02 with 256RAM? you must be kidding Nov 21 11:09:26 freemangordon, he did say it would run, not how fast it would run ;) Nov 21 11:09:32 compress ALL the ram Nov 21 11:09:34 hehe Nov 21 11:09:39 but will n900 touchscreen support the HID- input paradigm of that OS? Nov 21 11:09:57 DocScrutinizer, I don't see any two-finger support being essential Nov 21 11:10:19 Since when did xterm require touchscreen support? Nov 21 11:10:21 so I guess it'd work fine. heck, even Harmattan would work well enough with one finger. Nov 21 11:11:07 Hurrian: hahaha Nov 21 11:13:47 harmattan wouldn't work on N900, even without looking at any problems with zooming, simply because swipe fundamentally doesn't work on N900 screen Nov 21 11:14:18 DocScrutinizer05: Nemo's SWIPE X extension would like to have a word with you Nov 21 11:14:36 nemo is ok on the n900, UI-wise Nov 21 11:15:38 the reason my attempt at booting Harmattan on the N900 was because of 1) Aegis and 2) my balls dropped off when it started swapping on MTD5 Nov 21 11:15:50 * Wizzup__ should check out nemo again Nov 21 11:16:02 last time I tried it, it would not update anymore somehow Nov 21 11:16:26 s/n on/n failed on/ Nov 21 11:16:26 Hurrian meant: the reason my attempt at booting Harmattan failed on the N900 was because of 1) Aegis and 2) my balls dropped off when it started swapping on MTD5 Nov 21 11:16:53 Wizzup__, is that when it corrupts the ext4 partition randomly? Nov 21 11:17:29 I don't think so Nov 21 11:17:30 It was swapping on the rootfs NAND/ Nov 21 11:17:33 ? Nov 21 11:17:40 I had it on an external sd card. Nov 21 11:17:43 vi___, yup. Nov 21 11:18:26 Hurrian: Ouch. Nov 21 11:18:30 you see, apparently Harmattan is set up so that when the system has < 1024 MB RAM, it skips setting up ramzswap and instead swaps on mtd5. Nov 21 11:18:48 lol Nov 21 11:18:53 Hurrian: wut? Nov 21 11:19:30 vi____, yes. Nov 21 11:19:45 the swap-enable script that runs on startup contains logic to do so. Nov 21 11:30:49 In this code here: Nov 21 11:30:51 MySpiSend(~Intro_Display[7][i+(int)(timer_display*128/80)]); Nov 21 11:30:59 what is the '~' for? Nov 21 11:31:20 Alright, testing removal of event.replace.d Nov 21 11:31:36 Hurrian: As per the thread by reinob? Nov 21 11:31:40 mmhm Nov 21 11:32:04 aaaand, I'm at hildon-desktop. Nov 21 11:32:25 ... Nov 21 11:32:37 * vi____ much crunch *popcorn* crunch Nov 21 11:32:41 ls -l /etc/event.replace.d Nov 21 11:32:54 ls: /etc/event.replace.d: No such file or directory. Nov 21 11:33:04 So, time to mess with rcX.d? Nov 21 11:33:21 wtf are you talking aboutß Nov 21 11:33:25 ? Nov 21 11:33:46 etc/rc(0-6).d Nov 21 11:33:50 on Fremantle. Nov 21 11:34:00 is event.d replace for storing old event.d files for after de-installation of packages? Nov 21 11:34:48 vi____: iirc it's for some recovery scheme during boot Nov 21 11:35:29 rcX.d removed, testing. Nov 21 11:35:46 wtf are you talking about? Nov 21 11:36:02 I really don't get it what you're doing Nov 21 11:36:19 DocScrutinizer05: testing what isn't needed for Fremantle boot as per http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1296587#post1296587 Nov 21 11:36:30 vi___: It boots! Nov 21 11:36:37 o0 Nov 21 11:36:47 That shit must be there for SOME reason. Nov 21 11:36:47 Feel free to remove the aforementioned directories ;) Nov 21 11:36:58 dafaq! Nov 21 11:37:03 Fully tested, out of beta and ready to go! Nov 21 11:37:08 vi____, rcX.d is just full of symlinks to init.d Nov 21 11:37:31 I'll take that as a "deprecated for sysv compatibility". Nov 21 11:38:07 chinese method of "development" Nov 21 11:39:03 get 100 monkeys and make them remove components. As soon as device stops working, revert last component removal and declare that the golden sample Nov 21 11:39:13 chinese_dev(){ Nov 21 11:39:27 beat me to it. Nov 21 11:39:44 I thought they just copy everything they can and sell it as their own work? Nov 21 11:40:38 Skry: After using sub-standard materials and missing out as much testing, safety, certification as feasibly possible. Nov 21 11:40:50 ofc Nov 21 11:42:13 that's why those devices don't have any ESD protection or other 'nice to have' parts anymore Nov 21 11:42:38 hi all... Nov 21 11:42:38 not needed for initial woks/doesn't tests Nov 21 11:42:47 works* Nov 21 11:43:29 fremantle booting doesn't mean it will also still support act_dead for example Nov 21 11:44:04 or recover from a defect in desktop widgets that make H-D segfault Nov 21 11:44:14 DocScrutinizer05: lol nice sentence with monkey... hrhr Nov 21 11:44:55 DocScrutinizer05: or Li-ion chargers that are just 5v transformer with a zener over the output. Nov 21 11:45:17 They even have the silk screen on the PCB for the USB plug. Nov 21 11:45:48 that's actually not by chineses development, but rather korean original engineering Nov 21 11:46:53 freemangordon: what is the '~' in the line for? Nov 21 11:46:54 MySpiSend(~Intro_Display[7][i+(int)(timer_display*128/80)]); Nov 21 11:47:21 code that makes.. eyes bleed Nov 21 11:47:29 they sometimes come up with rather nifty extremely simple designs, that use so many side effects that you wonder if they planned that or found out by mere incidence Nov 21 11:47:36 vi____: what is that, C? Nov 21 11:47:43 freemangordon: Yes! Nov 21 11:47:50 iirc bitwise not Nov 21 11:48:12 The same C firmware that has polling a keypad in the middle of a timer interrupt service routine. Nov 21 11:48:50 vi____: ^^^ Nov 21 11:49:16 jaska: indeed Nov 21 11:49:20 Skry: ping Nov 21 11:50:36 vi____: you *really* wanna know what I think it does? Nov 21 11:50:55 Yes please. Nov 21 11:51:33 I know intro_display is an 7x128 array. Nov 21 11:51:54 It is supposed to be a loading bar. Nov 21 11:52:06 my guess: it sends data from a "framebuffer" array to a SPI attached display, doing the scanning (HSYNC) by itself. The SPI expects inverted data Nov 21 11:52:56 guys, what was that SW for network vulnerability scan? it is even ported to n900 iirc Nov 21 11:53:01 and of course the display expects real time display data via the SPI Nov 21 11:53:08 to directly drive the pixels Nov 21 11:55:11 vi____: some other possibility was some scrolling text in first or last line Nov 21 11:55:54 freemangordon: metasploit? Nov 21 11:55:55 probably of 80 chars length Nov 21 11:56:08 DocScrutinizer05: You are mostly correct. Nov 21 11:56:21 The problem is, this loading bar is full of junk. Nov 21 11:56:49 Looking at the array that contains the data, I can confirm it is full of junk. Nov 21 11:56:58 But I do not understand why? Nov 21 11:57:04 vi____: yeah, that one Nov 21 11:57:12 Why would somone fill that array with junk? Nov 21 11:57:23 freemangordon: There is a user on this channel called spoofy. Nov 21 11:57:26 spoofy: ping Nov 21 11:57:46 he is the current leading expert in ruuning metasploit on the n900. Nov 21 11:57:56 vi____: well, i neede the name only Nov 21 11:58:00 *needed Nov 21 11:58:03 ok Nov 21 11:58:41 something about hell and satan? Nov 21 11:58:56 DocScrutinizer05: wut? Nov 21 11:59:19 sorry, that's how my associative memory sometimes works ;-P Nov 21 12:01:07 of course there's also been metasploit and whatnot Nov 21 12:01:47 ooh, vi____ already mentioned that Nov 21 12:27:44 * Drathir check tor works nice, but is outdated... Nov 21 13:40:27 vi____: thanks ;) I have a newest metasploit fully working with newest postgres (searching sploits etc.) and ruby1.9.2. Nov 21 13:40:51 spoofy: woot! Nov 21 13:41:00 It runs like a msf 3 Nov 21 13:41:06 Fully working Nov 21 13:41:26 without glitches, freezes etc. Nov 21 13:41:41 Any chance of uploading nmap 6 to the repos now? Nov 21 13:41:52 vi____: still not optified yet :D Nov 21 13:43:24 vi____: I can upload old version for you but Nov 21 13:43:42 You must wait for PPP release Nov 21 13:43:49 ok Nov 21 13:44:07 also I'd like to ask about tor... Nov 21 13:44:37 I compiled arm (tor monitor) and testing tor aplet Nov 21 13:44:57 but I notice that tor is outdated Nov 21 13:45:22 are going to update it? Nov 21 13:45:34 Yeah I'll try :) Nov 21 13:45:50 Do openssh while you are at it! XD Nov 21 13:45:56 .onion sites from n900 is a nice idea ;) Nov 21 13:46:22 vi____: ok :D I can froward a ssh with screen session from my n900 :D Nov 21 13:53:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_c_BqnR_vAM Nov 21 13:54:02 looks worse than I expected... Nov 21 14:03:20 hmm Nov 21 14:03:32 n950? Nov 21 14:04:03 with harm-rev2 Nov 21 14:05:04 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders why all '(p)reviews' always focus on what I'd call the window manager Nov 21 14:05:56 DocScrutinizer05: because thats the only thing that has been released? Nov 21 14:06:49 feels like selling Linux-desktop/KDE by showing compiz Nov 21 14:07:44 well ... a more thorough UI demo will follow in an hour Nov 21 14:13:45 show me source code of dialer, and I might be sold to it Nov 21 14:14:30 show a working unpatched build of libreoffice Nov 21 14:15:04 :D Nov 21 14:15:26 I'm not that much interested in desktop design, I'm more interested if I could implement my own desktop Nov 21 14:16:43 hell, on PC I have the choice between kde, gnome, lxde, an dozen others, and none of them is bearable without massive personalization Nov 21 14:18:11 on fremantle I at least have a desktop wher I can install widgets, and I can get apmefo for proper applauncher submenus to save my day Nov 21 14:20:17 I admit those windows lovers have another approach. They usually not even change the wallpaper, and rather install OS new every 5 weeks - sth you can do if and only if you're actually not concerned about personalization. I always wondered how you could live that way Nov 21 14:25:33 (dialer) hell, my 12yo 6210 still has better *phone* experience than dialer of fremantle or harmattan Nov 21 14:26:41 actually the only smart thing in fremantle dialer are the contact shorcuts on desktop Nov 21 14:27:38 there's not even a friggin silly fulltext search in contacts Nov 21 14:28:55 it doesn't take sql select statements? :) Nov 21 14:29:07 nor regex? Nov 21 14:30:11 come on.. search function is nice Nov 21 14:30:26 you just start typing.. and you're there Nov 21 14:30:31 DocScrutinizer05: hildon in my opinion is the best window manager/desktop environment on mobile phone. Nov 21 14:30:39 usually you would only need 2-3 characters Nov 21 14:31:19 Sysaxed: fulltext? Nov 21 14:31:45 DocScrutinizer05, just the start of any word Nov 21 14:32:13 I friggin don't see a way to search for my company contacts, since the criterion is 3 letters under "Company:" extended field Nov 21 14:32:33 wtf? Nov 21 14:32:40 put a space after : Nov 21 14:32:46 and then you can search for it Nov 21 14:32:59 ??? Nov 21 14:33:04 please elaborate Nov 21 14:33:16 i have installed latest image of nemo on my sdcard. when i try to boot into it from uboot by pali it shows the information of the kernel and then after a little while it turns off the phone Nov 21 14:34:03 spoofy: well, that's just how they all sell their devices - "why would you want to change XY, you already got the top of the crop" Nov 21 14:35:44 Sysaxed: I even have to add "Company:" field again, *each time* I create a new contact. How insane a lack of personalization is THAT? And then it seems I can't serach for those optional fields Nov 21 14:37:13 DocScrutinizer05, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71236259/Screenshot-20121121-163412.jpg Nov 21 14:37:14 to read / view more than 5 words in "Comment:" field you have to *edit* the contact :-( Nov 21 14:37:44 Sysaxed: so WHAT? Nov 21 14:37:52 that's search for first or last name Nov 21 14:38:04 NOT for "Company:" field content Nov 21 14:38:18 DocScrutinizer05, so if the name is John type in the Name: Company: John Nov 21 14:38:23 and forget about the last name field Nov 21 14:38:24 and others Nov 21 14:38:29 use the name field only :) Nov 21 14:38:37 dafaq you're kidding me Nov 21 14:39:01 makes much sense on syncing Nov 21 14:39:04 why would you need separate fields for name and last name... Nov 21 14:39:13 ^^^ Nov 21 14:39:23 hmm Nov 21 14:39:29 syncing between what? Nov 21 14:39:29 uh.. at the end - it doesn't matter what kinda window manager I'll use.. I prefer simple/fast/smooth envoriments but what is INSIDE the os is more important. It can be arch with unity/gnome3 but it will be still arch ;) Nov 21 14:40:15 DocScrutinizer05: do you have installed extended-contacts-search ? Nov 21 14:40:30 Sysaxed: i'm not going to play that game with you "use XYZ, what Z sucks? drop it. Y sucks too? drop it" Nov 21 14:40:33 it helps Nov 21 14:40:57 amospalla: thanks, didn't know about it Nov 21 14:41:02 i have installed latest image of nemo on my sdcard. when i try to boot into it from uboot by pali it shows the information of the kernel and then after a little while it turns off the phone Nov 21 14:41:24 (repeating the question doesn't help) Nov 21 14:41:32 DocScrutinizer05, well, fine.. but it seemed like a best solution for me.. Nov 21 14:41:54 playing that game proper, 6210 is the best solution Nov 21 14:42:16 Wizzup__: better than nothin Nov 21 14:42:37 You'll find it works in your disadvantage Nov 21 14:43:05 I haven't seen a question yet Nov 21 14:43:52 repeating statements actually won't work Nov 21 14:44:08 ~ask Nov 21 14:44:08 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Nov 21 14:44:28 http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Nov 21 14:44:35 ~question Nov 21 14:44:36 it has been said that question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Nov 21 14:44:39 ;-D Nov 21 14:44:41 that works, too ;) Nov 21 14:45:25 Timmy: to ansticipate your question: please /join nemo Nov 21 14:46:43 what's been the nemo channel? Nov 21 14:46:50 aah Nov 21 14:47:09 repeating statements actually won't work - pahahahahhahaha :DD Nov 21 14:53:38 ohmy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRZxM9rNyZ4&feature=youtu.be Nov 21 14:54:48 hey pali Nov 21 14:55:09 hi Nov 21 15:46:12 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/21/sailfish_os_sets_sail/ Nov 21 15:47:06 DocScrutinizer05: I friggin don't see a way to search for my company contacts, since the criterion is 3 letters under "Company:" extended field Nov 21 15:47:24 You are aware that if you leave a space you can enter terms for another field? Nov 21 15:47:45 If I have 20 contacts called john but only one called john smith I can type: Nov 21 15:47:53 joh sm Nov 21 15:48:11 If your company is LXP and you want contact jane doe: Nov 21 15:48:14 lxp ja do Nov 21 15:54:31 fil: Did you do any further analysis on your SIP choppiness? Nov 21 15:57:51 vi____: that's a pretty useful info, alas doesn't help on my problem, which I'm going to confirm in a minute Nov 21 16:01:15 vi____: I have several contacts with optional contact detail field "Company:" added. If the content of that field is for example "STE" then searching for "ste" finds me "Stefan Mueller" and "Steakpoint" but none of the contacts with 'Company:' "STE" Nov 21 16:02:02 so your example with lxp doesn Nov 21 16:02:08 't work like supposed Nov 21 16:02:54 vi____: a little - I'm currently playing with freeswitch on another remote server, to try and ensure that it wasn't caused in part by the fact that the first server runs on Xen Nov 21 16:03:03 it simply does NOT search any other fields than 'first name', 'last name', maybe 'nickname' Nov 21 16:03:26 that's what I meant by "no fulltext search" Nov 21 16:03:38 seems marginally better, but not enough for it not to just be random variation Nov 21 16:05:18 this pretty much renders the whole contact thing useless Nov 21 16:05:55 for any serious usecase beyond "I got 20 friends, what's their numbers" Nov 21 16:06:16 vi____: I guess I have to now try tweaking all the things I tried before to see if any of them make a difference when pointed at the new server Nov 21 16:07:23 vi____: oh, and in between I tried routing the calls via a VPN to see if it was something to do with my ADSL router being to clever wrt SIP -- to no effect Nov 21 16:07:32 fil: audio quality of SIP is largely unrelated to SIP "servers" (actually: registrars) Nov 21 16:08:02 since your RTP stream is directly to far end Nov 21 16:08:21 by the miracles of internet routing Nov 21 16:09:06 DocScrutinizer05: well, not in this case, since I record my calls on FreeSwitch, so the media is definitely going via the box Nov 21 16:09:07 if your far end is a landline number, then your SIP/RTP far end is a gateway provided by your SIP company Nov 21 16:10:21 sorry, no idea what's FreeSwitch Nov 21 16:10:55 and also not in this case because my test case (which may not simulate real calls in any way, but ensures that I keep my friends) is to call the Freeswitch IVR and listen to it failing to expalin the menu to me Nov 21 16:11:51 DocScrutinizer05: freeswitch is to asterisk, what postfix is to sendmail ;-) Nov 21 16:12:17 :shrug: Nov 21 16:12:56 doesn't tell much to me about your actual routing or whatever Nov 21 16:13:30 neither about which 'far end' you used for your test calls Nov 21 16:13:38 DocScrutinizer05: to be fair, compiz is pretty nifty Nov 21 16:13:42 (re: showing off linux) Nov 21 16:13:53 it's a free software telephony server, and in this case I'm calling it up and having recorded voice snippets played at me by it, along the lines of "press 1 for foo, press 2 for bar..." Nov 21 16:14:39 there's no such thing like a 'telephony server' defined in SIP Nov 21 16:15:14 well, sorry. Got RL stuff pending Nov 21 16:15:16 o/ Nov 21 16:19:16 DocScrutinizer05: while what you say about SIP not really knowing what sevice it's initiating might be true, that doesn't stop FreeSwitch being a big blob of software providing services (i.e. a server) including SIP & RTP (among many others) for the purpose of getting VoIP (and other stuff) to work Nov 21 16:24:40 mhm, so you say FreeSwitch is a UaserAgent as well? Nov 21 16:24:50 UserAgent* Nov 21 16:27:43 is anny possibility to restart video codecs without restart n900? Nov 21 16:28:06 ? Nov 21 16:28:41 btw I had to learn from Michel deBoer (author of twinkle, who now seems to contribute to IETF's SIP RFCs) that not even asterisk is a server but a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B2BUA Nov 21 16:28:43 DocScrutinizer05: I guess so (if that's what it takes to do stuff like conference calls, where the mixing is happening at the server end rather than on one of the phones) Nov 21 16:29:00 i mean somtimes player cant open the files or say not supported format... but after restart phone is ok... Nov 21 16:29:24 Fucking SIP on the n900 sucks so much balls. WTF. Nov 21 16:29:37 Why cant I get a decent call? Nov 21 16:29:49 It is always this choppy bullshit. Nov 21 16:29:54 some kind of freeze of detect codecs or something like that.... Nov 21 16:30:25 (mixing) sounds like a special gateway implementation with multiple RTP trunks Nov 21 16:30:33 Even limiting the device to iLBC still fucking sucks asses. Nov 21 16:30:50 I barely works when You are on the same LAN. Nov 21 16:31:19 It is enough to make me want to throw my n900 in a toilet. Nov 21 16:31:22 DocScrutinizer05: although it's also capable of doing the SIP but not RTP thing, as you described Nov 21 16:31:31 vi____: try it over PAN Nov 21 16:31:38 try disabling the powersaving Nov 21 16:31:53 fil: that suggests it's doing several jobs at once Nov 21 16:32:05 yup Nov 21 16:32:17 for audio issues however it's always just the RTP farend that matters Nov 21 16:32:39 and the 'wire' that runs to far end Nov 21 16:33:55 vi____: SIP on same LAN is rather tricky, esp with 'public' registrar Nov 21 16:34:55 vi____: RTP traffic has to get routed from your NAT to its own public IP, which many routers plainly refuse to do, others are performing really bad on that task Nov 21 16:36:43 with local (LAN based) SIP registrar however, it should work Nov 21 16:37:10 since far end's IP (192.168.33.144) is actually valid addr Nov 21 16:37:33 I.E. no NAT involved Nov 21 16:37:51 btw sip no connect to udp ? Nov 21 16:38:16 RTP is *always* from one IP _directly_ to another IP Nov 21 16:38:38 Drathir: sorry? Nov 21 16:39:27 Drathir: SIP originally is defined as UDP traffic, though later extensions allow TCP traffic for SIP msgs as well Nov 21 16:39:41 not many SIP providers support that Nov 21 16:41:00 in N900 VoIP account setup you find that under "Transport" option Nov 21 16:42:41 vi____: you find info about list of avaible installed sip codec? Nov 21 16:49:01 brb restart to video play fix Nov 21 16:54:25 Drathir: there's some "reset-dsp" or whatever iirc Nov 21 16:55:05 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, Freeswitch seems to be aiming to be the VoIP swiss-army knife -- I generally use it such that I'm always calling it (i.e. it's the RTP end-point from my point of view, even if it's then plumbing that into another RTP link to my SIP provider, say) Nov 21 16:56:30 ok im back... Nov 21 16:56:30 has some benefits Nov 21 16:56:55 Drathir: there's some "reset-dsp" or whatever iirc. Can't find the name of that command Nov 21 16:56:57 DocScrutinizer05: thanks i will looking for it... Nov 21 16:57:24 now i know where to look be eisier... Nov 21 17:03:50 DocScrutinizer05: say that sudo /usr/libexec/dsp-recover Nov 21 17:04:26 but must freeze again to check if it works and tell here... Nov 21 17:27:11 hi all! Nov 21 17:27:55 Drathir: sorry, I scanned all 1049 available commands, can't find the right one Nov 21 17:28:21 actually Nov 21 17:28:23 Display all 1234 possibilities? (y or n) Nov 21 17:33:46 hope I'm in the right place: I try to sync my contacts with google account, after read this post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35136&page=157 and try lot of configuration/trick nothing warking at all...any idea? my libcurl3 version is 7.25.0-maemo7 and my dnsmasq.conf is clean (without google ip address force)... Nov 21 17:39:22 no one can help me? Nov 21 17:42:37 well, gogle is not THAT popular, but you might find somebody who at least has successfully done that before. Just might take a while until answers show up Nov 21 17:43:19 or maybe google changed his API and it doesn't work anymore. I dunno, I don't use google for storing my contacts Nov 21 17:43:31 s/his/their/ Nov 21 17:43:32 DocScrutinizer05 meant: or maybe google changed their API and it doesn't work anymore. I dunno, I don't use google for storing my contacts Nov 21 18:34:06 so no jolla hardware today? Nov 21 18:34:56 vi_: who cares Nov 21 18:35:01 it's not going to have a keyboard Nov 21 18:35:11 kerio: You are not interested even a little. Nov 21 18:35:14 I might! Nov 21 18:35:17 It might! Nov 21 18:35:20 no Nov 21 18:35:26 they talked about it Nov 21 18:43:41 shttp://rzr.online.fr/q/n950club# have you checked #JollaMobile's #SailFishOS demo on !n950club , want irc event for installing #NemoMobile ? Nov 21 18:45:32 So there is no jolla with a hw kbd? Nov 21 18:45:39 THE FUCK. Nov 21 18:45:48 *sigh* Nov 21 18:45:53 there's no Jolla at all. So far Nov 21 18:46:00 tadzik: point Nov 21 18:46:34 start complaining when they deliver ;) Nov 21 18:47:12 they say they can port it to new hardware faster than netbsd. Nov 21 18:47:27 So it will be available on 101 crummy chinese qwerty phones right? Nov 21 18:47:33 no eye deer Nov 21 18:54:20 DocScrutinizer05: 1234 commands inside n900? Nov 21 18:54:29 hi Nov 21 18:54:35 Drathir: obviously Nov 21 18:55:52 i try to develop application which depends on library. ButI can't build release version for device via qt-creator and I have error:/home/magog/Programming/QtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim/usr/lib/libkqoauth.so: file not recognized: File format not recognized Nov 21 18:57:57 m4g0g: quite probably related to ARM vs X86 bibary format (ELF format) Nov 21 18:58:25 m4g0g: file /home/magog/Programming/QtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim/usr/lib/libkqoauth.so Nov 21 18:59:02 binary* Nov 21 19:01:29 what way to develop is recommended? Using QtSQK or something else& Nov 21 19:01:30 ? Nov 21 19:12:10 m4g0g: the only SDK I know of to get frequently used is scratchbox Nov 21 19:12:31 maybe madde, though I dunno if it actually works Nov 21 19:12:57 in QtSQK thereis emulator Nov 21 19:13:17 mhm Nov 21 19:13:47 http://maemo.org/development/sdks/ Nov 21 19:15:58 you want to say that this way is more true and better& Nov 21 19:15:59 ? Nov 21 19:26:57 fun idea: use the mechanism that OMP uses for displaying the entry field in Music view (slide finger from bottem edge) to open the status menu pop-up Nov 21 19:36:39 w00t! Nov 21 19:36:49 tadzik: that's incredibly annoying actually Nov 21 19:36:52 I have managed to mount the frmantle rootfs in a chroot. Nov 21 19:36:56 because sometimes i'm trying to scroll down and it appears Nov 21 19:37:10 In the state it is in pre firstboot. Nov 21 19:37:35 Pre auto optification. Nov 21 19:38:14 big deal Nov 21 19:38:20 Now it is a simple case of adding paths to /etc/maemo-auto-optify.conf to define what gets copied and symlinked during first boot. Nov 21 19:38:38 vi_: what are you trying to do? Nov 21 19:38:39 Well actually this is a big deal. Nov 21 19:38:48 kerio: roll a pr1.4 Nov 21 19:39:02 vi_: oh you mean to avoid having to flash VANILLA too Nov 21 19:39:03 neat Nov 21 19:39:13 (pr1.3-crap)+cssu-s Nov 21 19:39:19 i approve Nov 21 19:39:34 excellant, I may proceed. Nov 21 19:39:40 to be fair VANILLA should be VANILLA Nov 21 19:40:05 kerio: that is why it will ship the stock kernel. Nov 21 19:40:39 things to optify: Nov 21 19:40:42 vi_: wat Nov 21 19:40:45 ovi maps Nov 21 19:40:57 /usr/lib/locales Nov 21 19:41:30 those alone will free up ~29mb (uncompressed) Nov 21 19:43:24 vi_: can't you just uninstall ovi maps? Nov 21 19:44:13 kerio: People may still want it. Nov 21 19:44:29 should I remove the games? Nov 21 19:45:01 noooo Nov 21 19:45:16 vi_: i say you make a serious image for serious people Nov 21 19:45:19 so NO GAEMS Nov 21 19:45:24 maemoblocks, srsly? Nov 21 19:45:52 ok, I am ditching the games. Nov 21 19:46:20 Should I ditch startup-progress? Nov 21 19:46:26 vi_: where are things autooptified, btw? Nov 21 19:46:40 straight to /opt/$real_path ? Nov 21 19:46:53 kerio: more or less. Nov 21 19:47:03 check /etc/maemo-* Nov 21 19:47:08 find the conf file. Nov 21 19:47:25 There is a simple list that gets churned through on the first boot. Nov 21 19:47:47 the state of affairs of /opt is sad, really Nov 21 19:47:51 shit all over the place Nov 21 19:48:17 yup Nov 21 19:48:22 But it is what we have. Nov 21 19:48:50 should I remove hildon-progress (5 dots)? Nov 21 19:49:09 what the fuck, why is maemoblocks still here Nov 21 19:49:21 ah fuck, those are not uninstalled by dpkg of course Nov 21 19:49:33 they are surely. Nov 21 19:49:38 THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE IS WHY YOU DON'T RELY ON STUPID BOOT-TIME SCRIPTS Nov 21 19:49:46 Or how else did they make this abomination fremantle? Nov 21 19:49:55 ALSO LOTS OF ALLCAPS AND LOTS OF CURSING Nov 21 19:50:01 FUCKING SHIT. Nov 21 19:52:30 remove oss-rss-feed-reader? Nov 21 19:52:35 yep Nov 21 19:52:42 5 dots? Nov 21 19:52:44 also wtf, hildon-welcome is in /opt for some reason Nov 21 19:52:50 idk, i kinda like 5dots Nov 21 19:52:53 kerio: Why not. Nov 21 19:53:04 kerio: You can replace 5 dots with xeyes. Nov 21 19:53:09 haha Nov 21 19:54:31 DocScrutinizer05: hildon-welcome is in opt Nov 21 19:54:34 install flash 10? Nov 21 19:54:56 DocScrutinizer05: there's no reason not to have all of /usr there D: Nov 21 19:56:05 I hope you guys have fun Nov 21 19:57:32 DocScrutinizer05: no, i mean Nov 21 19:57:44 the excuse that pulseaudio is in /usr and thus we need it early Nov 21 19:57:48 is bunk Nov 21 19:58:14 vi_: what's the package for 5dots? Nov 21 19:58:31 apt-cache search hildon | grep progree Nov 21 19:58:36 apt-cache search hildon | grep progress Nov 21 19:59:10 kerio: then fix initscripts to load PA later Nov 21 19:59:27 CBA Nov 21 19:59:36 DocScrutinizer05: i'm not even convinced it's started that early Nov 21 19:59:51 the problem is stuff like cal-tool Nov 21 19:59:58 :c Nov 21 20:00:02 I'm not interested in what somebody is not convinced of Nov 21 20:00:36 I honestly don't get it what you're just doing Nov 21 20:00:41 DocScrutinizer05: flu still hasn't passed? Nov 21 20:01:07 DocScrutinizer05: Rolling pr1.4 Nov 21 20:01:15 suuuure Nov 21 20:01:31 play the cynic all you like. Nov 21 20:01:32 ask infobot about pr1.4 Nov 21 20:01:38 ~pr1.4 Nov 21 20:01:39 PR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject Nov 21 20:01:46 ask infobot about pr1.5 Nov 21 20:01:50 ~pr1.6 Nov 21 20:01:51 methinks pr1.6 is the future man! Nov 21 20:01:53 ~pr1.5 Nov 21 20:01:53 ~pr1.5 Nov 21 20:01:53 * infobot beats kerio with a Nostradamus papercopy 70.6 times. "That's your PR1.5!" Nov 21 20:02:01 ~pr1.7 Nov 21 20:02:13 vi_: awesome, roll pr1.7 Nov 21 20:02:21 ~2d6 Nov 21 20:02:21 You roll a 5 Nov 21 20:02:23 BAM Nov 21 20:02:32 actually, that was a shit roll. Nov 21 20:02:53 ~2d6 Nov 21 20:02:53 You roll a 6 Nov 21 20:03:04 still below avg Nov 21 20:03:21 i wonder... do packages install in /opt/usr/share/icons or do they install in /usr/share/icons? Nov 21 20:03:33 DocScrutinizer05: I am attempting to create a cssu-s flashable image that does not contain junk like ovi-share-widget. Nov 21 20:05:04 I wonder what for Nov 21 20:05:19 vi_: ofc, remove cherry Nov 21 20:05:28 after all cssu-s is meant to be basically indistinguishable from maemo stock Nov 21 20:05:30 allready done. Nov 21 20:07:19 DocScrutinizer05: You think it should be cssu-t? Nov 21 20:08:03 guys help to make my x-terminal work over proxy Nov 21 20:08:07 vi_: what's the datepicker, btw? Nov 21 20:08:13 still hildon-welcome? Nov 21 20:08:15 or over ssh tunnel Nov 21 20:08:19 hildon-startup-wizard Nov 21 20:08:36 so, result of sth based on >>[2012-11-21 20:54:35] install flash 10?<< >>[2012-11-21 20:52:31] remove oss-rss-feed-reader?<< >>[2012-11-21 20:52:42] 5 dots?<< is rather questionable, and for sure we won't do the "helpdesk" support for users starting to whine about WTF it got them Nov 21 20:09:11 DocScrutinizer05: Well fuck it, I will make it for myself for fun/ Nov 21 20:09:25 You are killing all fun. Nov 21 20:09:49 DocScrutinizer05: according to reinob's boot order, rcS-late (which mounts /opt) comes before pulseaudio Nov 21 20:10:16 or maybe that's alphabetical order and upstart does what it wants Nov 21 20:13:12 sys232: install openssh Nov 21 20:33:26 kerio: cssu-t or s? Nov 21 20:33:42 vi_: yes Nov 21 20:41:41 lol, Get:145 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free posix-locales 2.7.2-1maemo7-binonly0+0m5 [5106kB] Nov 21 20:41:57 the name! Nov 21 20:42:19 "free" Nov 21 20:42:21 lol Nov 21 20:42:26 so freeeeeeeee Nov 21 21:12:36 vi_: install decoders-support and ogg-support if you can Nov 21 21:13:55 vi_: (also backupmenu, ofc) Nov 21 21:15:32 F U SDK installer!! Nov 21 21:15:41 after ~3 h: Nov 21 21:15:46 Traceback (most recent call last): Nov 21 21:15:47 File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 3026, in run Nov 21 21:15:49 task() Nov 21 21:15:50 File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 2743, in __taskInstallXephyr Nov 21 21:15:52 raise Exception("Failed to install Xephyr.") Nov 21 21:15:53 Exception: Failed to install Xephyr. Nov 21 21:15:55 V [22:13:18 21.11.2012]: ----- End logging exception ----- Nov 21 21:15:56 V [22:13:18 21.11.2012]: Executor set exit status to (status_error) Nov 21 21:15:57 dat paste Nov 21 21:16:05 clearly, it failed to install xephyr Nov 21 21:17:15 Unbekannte Option '-y' Nov 21 21:17:16 Automatic installation of package "in" failed. Nov 21 21:20:32 DocScrutinizer05: what distro are you using? Nov 21 21:20:41 kerio: Yes! Nov 21 21:21:15 i doubt you can install decoders/ogg cleanly, though Nov 21 21:21:20 they reside in /opt, i hope Nov 21 21:21:29 kerio: Although I am not sure what will happen to stuff if it is in /opt pre firstboot optification. Nov 21 21:21:51 it'll be deleted Nov 21 21:22:08 firstboot deletes everything in $homefs/opt Nov 21 21:22:19 kerio: perfect. Nov 21 21:22:20 or possibly deletes $homefs/opt and then does mkdir $homefs/opt Nov 21 21:22:46 stuff in $rootfs/opt just gets ignored i think Nov 21 21:23:03 vi_: opensuse Nov 21 21:23:04 kerio: I could manually install them in alternative directories and just add them to the auto optifiacation list. Nov 21 21:23:20 DocScrutinizer05: Sorry, I may not be of assistance then. Nov 21 21:23:23 vi_: >:c Nov 21 21:24:10 or perhaps, this is really nuts though. Nov 21 21:24:29 Include the debs and have them dpkg -i post auto optification. Nov 21 21:25:19 ew :c Nov 21 21:25:39 if you remove the silly maemo games, there's actually no need for autooptification, and the first boot will be quite fast Nov 21 21:25:47 no, wait, icons are still there Nov 21 21:25:55 it's still going to be *less* though Nov 21 21:26:04 Instead of installing cssu-s/t, perhaps some browser shortcuts could be included? Nov 21 21:26:08 vi_: 92 command = ['zypper', '-y', 'in', suse_pkg_name[package]] ##in maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py Nov 21 21:26:33 That way the user can select what they want after first boot. Nov 21 21:26:44 vi_: meh Nov 21 21:27:19 kerio: The shortcut open up ham. Nov 21 21:27:41 that's even worse! Nov 21 21:28:02 and considering that you'll need internet, you might as well just go to the wiki page Nov 21 21:28:19 kerio: ? Remember the 'install cssu-s' icon on the wiki page that opens ham? That shortcut. Nov 21 21:28:28 i know Nov 21 21:28:31 ok Nov 21 21:28:35 that shortcut is also on the wiki page Nov 21 21:28:56 yes, but who wants to type in an address for the wiki like a chump? Nov 21 21:30:05 anyway, I am going to bed. Nov 21 21:30:06 :Q Nov 21 21:30:10 :q Nov 21 21:56:06 I more and more lose the idea of what that all is meant for. Why not creating a proper flashable image of CSSU-T5 ? Nov 21 22:02:11 BTW Just got FS sorted out on the other server, and with Speex it's noticably better, so perhaps running Freeswitch under Xen was enough for it tu upset the n900, but not enough to break all my other phones Nov 21 22:03:00 in- or outbound? (N900 side) Nov 21 22:03:13 will have to try transfering the real system over to the new server, and try it with real calls next Nov 21 22:04:26 well, I only get to hear the n900 end normally, and that's what breaks up -- people tell me that they can still hear me saying "I think I lost you again" :-) Nov 21 22:04:47 hmm, flashable cssu-t image would be nice to have indeed Nov 21 22:05:02 fil: I'd think if it's Xen related, then it's ethernet related. A ping should already reveal stuff like jitter and/or too high RTT Nov 21 22:05:44 DocScrutinizer05: a COMBINED image of CSSU might be weird to make, though Nov 21 22:05:52 why? Nov 21 22:06:06 because COMBINED has everything on the rootfs Nov 21 22:06:10 and optifies some things on firstboot Nov 21 22:06:21 but that fucks dpkg up Nov 21 22:06:32 well, then you have to de-optify first, prior to fiasco-gen Nov 21 22:06:46 DocScrutinizer05: dpkg won't like that Nov 21 22:06:49 not one bit Nov 21 22:07:00 o.O Nov 21 22:07:12 how's dpkg involved in all that? Nov 21 22:07:18 DocScrutinizer05: some things install themselves in /opt by default Nov 21 22:07:25 i'm not sure if cssu has any of that Nov 21 22:07:32 for sure not Nov 21 22:07:41 if it has, that's a bug Nov 21 22:07:49 why? Nov 21 22:07:51 :o Nov 21 22:08:23 I mean, we don't want new stuff included, just the replaced pkgs which will still be where they ever been Nov 21 22:08:56 then the only possible issue would be the space Nov 21 22:09:08 but removing the games will fix that, hopefully :) Nov 21 22:09:16 at the very least fscking maemoblocks Nov 21 22:09:19 so, even *if* CSSU 'optifies' genuine Nokia stuff, we'll just have to redo that after flashing, on first boot Nov 21 22:10:24 DocScrutinizer05: well, to the bad sounding server I currently have RTTs between 34ms and 46ms -- the better sounding one is ... oh sod it, it's currently ~33ms and less variable -- I'll have to try it when it's busy again tomorrow and see how it is then Nov 21 22:10:32 after optification on first boot, everything looks like on a normal CSSU-T, and no dpkg involved until then Nov 21 22:10:55 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, it should work Nov 21 22:11:04 kerio: but I don't think CSSU optified any core stuff Nov 21 22:11:18 there's going to be an issue if CSSU decides to ship *anything* that's in /opt, though Nov 21 22:11:50 we'd probably have to ship it on / with proper auto-optify setup Nov 21 22:12:22 unless it's optional and not included in fiasco that way Nov 21 22:13:39 it's pretty simple: everything needed has to be on COMBINED aka rootfs. Everything else will be installed after flashing and firstboot Nov 21 22:14:15 DocScrutinizer05: btw, maemo-optify-boottime.sh should really use dpkg diverts for single files Nov 21 22:14:18 if something needed shall go to /opt, we need auto-optify (and de-optify for fiasco-gen) Nov 21 22:14:33 so that there won't be any issue when upgrading those packages Nov 21 22:15:17 yeah *sigh*, a PITA, no matter what we do Nov 21 22:16:13 I'd really feel like nuking all that optification shit and sanitize stuff with proper *ultra-early* mount of /usr Nov 21 22:16:21 i'd like that, too :3 Nov 21 22:16:43 but the maemo boot process is the product of a twisted mind Nov 21 22:17:28 yeah, driven by "duh, we need to entertain user by shaking-hands video when the device needs longer than 5s to boot" Nov 21 22:17:47 also by weird act-dead stuff etc Nov 21 22:18:05 So was the sailfish ui interesting? Nov 21 22:18:14 not really Nov 21 22:18:26 HARM-rev2 Nov 21 22:18:43 DocScrutinizer05: thats a pity Nov 21 22:18:56 basically UI never are interesting, unless they tell me about how customizable they are Nov 21 22:19:13 which basically they didn't Nov 21 22:19:15 DocScrutinizer05: nuking act-dead would be neat, too Nov 21 22:19:17 Hopefully they will release a device with a keyboard Nov 21 22:20:23 DocScrutinizer05: atleast there is something to follow after n9 Nov 21 22:20:27 I don't actually think so - despite they used N950 to demonstrate, they never used landscape orientation even less the N950 kbd Nov 21 22:20:57 all pretty much portrait only like HARM Nov 21 22:21:17 finger-touch only Nov 21 22:21:24 c-ts only Nov 21 22:21:32 It will be big shame and I will skip it without a keyboard Nov 21 22:22:39 There is not much advantage compared with competition without a keyboard Nov 21 22:24:27 * trumee wonders what happened to the Q/A list on tmo about sailfish Nov 21 22:31:52 yeah, my next phone/whatever will have a physical keyboard Nov 21 22:36:40 Skry: wonder when jolla device will be released outside china Nov 21 22:38:01 short and simple answer: in 2013 :) Nov 21 22:38:30 or 2014 ;-P Nov 21 22:39:27 yeah, after the chinese have ripped off the device so they have to release it elsewhere :) Nov 21 22:41:41 seriously, I do hope they succeed in what they are doing, made me somewhat sad to see their offering is something I'm personally not that interested :\ Nov 21 22:42:12 but that was expected Nov 21 22:42:57 I still smell an interest conflict for business case in what Jolla plans to do. They're so pretty much focused on OS/SW that it seems to me they need to sell the SW to make money. You can't really sell FOSS SW. Selling HW OTOH seems not Jolla's main interest or even strong differentiation point, particularly if the OS/SW is as easy to port to other HW as they claim it was. Nov 21 22:44:01 So the only way they can create some ROI is by keeping Sailfish closed enough to 'dongle' it to HW which they can monetize Nov 21 22:44:30 you may have a point there Nov 21 22:45:06 which in turn is not exactly what I'd be interested in buying Nov 21 22:45:41 of course they *could* find a differentiation point in selling proper HW *WITH* *KBD* Nov 21 22:46:31 and tailor sailfish to maximize benefit from that "unique" hw feature, as some sort of "dongling" Nov 21 22:46:54 yeah, who knows. Nov 21 22:47:31 I don't know, there is something fishy with the whole hardware scheme imo Nov 21 22:48:11 once they got a userbase that wants hw kbd, the OS might gain enough momentum to compete with established other OS, even on usual fingertouch-only devices Nov 21 22:49:33 once that momentum is there, they *might* try to monetize some "appstore" Nov 21 22:50:11 probably, that seems to be the trend Nov 21 22:51:49 DocScrutinizer05 : considering they use android apps, appstore may not be the issue Nov 21 22:52:29 s/use/can use Nov 21 22:53:53 Dont thing the device is going to sell very much in west without keyb. And in east they will have to make it very cheaps Nov 21 22:59:15 trumee: 'issue' as in, 'that's not what they will be able to monetize' Nov 21 23:00:16 yes, indeed Nov 21 23:01:11 so, unless they come up with a proper hw kbd, it's pretty hard to see why to buy a jolla device instead any random android phone Nov 21 23:01:31 from a end user perspective Nov 21 23:01:41 mass market, whatever Nov 21 23:02:29 some linux geeks that however don't want a kbd might be interested Nov 21 23:02:56 I guess that's about half of the users in this chan, at max ;-D Nov 21 23:03:31 :) Nov 21 23:06:35 if only had nokia decided to put a tiny bit bigger display to N900 I wouldnt even have to think about any future upgrade :S Nov 21 23:06:53 indeed Nov 21 23:08:13 the hardore fraction of maemo fans criticized the screen size of N900 from beginning, asking for a formfactor like N810 at least Nov 21 23:08:58 3 years back this was a nogo though for a phone. Nowadays it shows we only were ahead of our time Nov 21 23:09:11 ;-P Nov 21 23:10:05 :-) Nov 21 23:10:20 I actually don't think geeks have different needs than 'normal' users. They just don't take shit Nov 21 23:10:23 DocScrutinizer05 : http://db.tt/cFQAjS9I Nov 21 23:11:27 Decent battery life on android device, something like that on a proper linux device would be awesome Nov 21 23:12:34 trumee: hmm, i'd think my N900 would look quite similar Nov 21 23:13:51 DocScrutinizer05 : my n900 had very poor battery life on active usage. Nov 21 23:18:47 DocScrutinizer05 : is it best to deplete the battery or have it topped up for better battery life? Nov 21 23:19:14 for battery longevity? Nov 21 23:19:29 SpeedEvil: yes Nov 21 23:20:21 you'd probably want to hack the BME replacement thingy to terminate charge at'80% Nov 21 23:20:27 or so Nov 21 23:20:51 life goes'up notably when you do that Nov 21 23:21:26 SpeedEvil: right that is about charging, how about discharging? Nov 21 23:22:03 doesn't matter that much Nov 21 23:22:21 other than keep it on charger as much as you can. Nov 21 23:22:30 in practice Nov 21 23:22:43 buy a cheap battery every year Nov 21 23:24:53 I read somewhere that it is best to discharge until 10% before charging Nov 21 23:29:12 The batteries that have lost most capacity for me, have spent alot of time at 0-10% Nov 21 23:29:44 yep. that's actually what kills batteries most Nov 21 23:30:13 and refill them slowly w/ a laptop usb , is it safe ? Nov 21 23:30:31 RzR, huh? Nov 21 23:30:59 I'd reckon, discharging a battery to max 25%, it will live 3 times as long as if you'd discharge it to 5% every time Nov 21 23:31:00 yes slow charge is said to preserve batteries Nov 21 23:32:04 I'd recommend wallcharger and power-kernel/kernel-power or whatever the power user kernel is called Nov 21 23:32:47 Because with USB charging it stays full, which is also bad. With pk, and wallcharger, it stops charging when full, and then periodically tops it up. Nov 21 23:33:07 ok makes sense Nov 21 23:33:34 I have to say the bme and stock kernel/musb_hdrc, as nasty as it is with constantly keeping battery floating, hasn't ruined my battery as much as I thought it'd do, during last 3 years Nov 21 23:33:34 all wallchargers are working the same ? Nov 21 23:34:14 RzR: yes Nov 21 23:34:34 thx for the tip Nov 21 23:34:45 charging is done by bq24150 chip (and bme), the wallcharger is basically just a powersupply Nov 21 23:35:35 bedtime Nov 21 23:35:36 bye Nov 21 23:35:38 o/ Nov 21 23:37:02 btw is the mugen battery worth the bucks? Nov 21 23:37:43 * DocScrutinizer05 muses about a battery lifetime extender app: shut down device at 3.5V bat voltage, unless user hits the "activate sleeping reserve energy" button when bat-low alarm yells Nov 21 23:37:49 I might be spending winter in the middle of nowhere with practically no electricity so.. Nov 21 23:38:22 Skry: no way Nov 21 23:38:42 Skry: mugen is basically nonsense. get some 4 spare batteries for less than what mugen costs Nov 21 23:38:47 * ShadowJK has 12V 21Ah battery bank on his desk Nov 21 23:39:13 car battery it is then :D Nov 21 23:39:15 Skry: yeah, or that Nov 21 23:40:32 with a good (high efficiency, switching step-down converter) USB car carger, you'll get the most hours per buck out of car battery Nov 21 23:40:45 Yeah Nov 21 23:41:00 Small cellphone batteries are pretty expensive on a bucks per watthours basis Nov 21 23:42:15 4Wh / battery (~10bucks?) Nov 21 23:42:27 easily more Nov 21 23:42:30 bucks Nov 21 23:42:56 car battery: 400Wh for 50 bucks Nov 21 23:43:29 I think I have decent usb car charger stashed somewhere, and car batteries are everywhere so that might be my best option Nov 21 23:44:00 Skry: decent charger := one that doesn't get warm Nov 21 23:44:22 yep Nov 21 23:45:51 of course in a 'small' case, it's no magic to stay cool when case is like a 5¼" floppy alu Nov 21 23:47:36 usually car chargers should be "decent", since small case is very common and they couldn't do that with crappy linear regulators Nov 21 23:49:49 * DocScrutinizer05 takes mental note to test how good his monster universal power supply works. Has laptop power outlet, USB power outlet, mains, and a 12V power-in/out (chargers as well as powers the device, depending on mains available or not) Nov 21 23:50:57 pretty cool device Nov 21 23:53:27 AC in: 100-240V; DC out 12V@10A; DC out 12/15/16/18/19/20/24V@3.75A; USB 5V@1A Nov 21 23:53:49 nice one Nov 21 23:54:45 meh, I should worry about how to stay warm, or alive for that matter, and here I am asking about batteries Nov 21 23:54:48 I actually notice it's also a pretty nice simple UPS for 12V-24V electronics, when accompanied by a car battery Nov 22 00:01:04 http://www.rakuten.de/universal-notebook-akkus/tiveco-netzteil-notebook-90w-tiveco-universal-tm-901-646136590.html Nov 22 00:02:23 Well, this a-data card is giving me 13M/s read on n800 Nov 22 00:02:41 otoh N800 also crashed once with it already :) Nov 22 00:03:46 http://www.rakuten.de/esata-festplatten/tiveco-tiveco-tm-nb901-netzteil-wechselstrom-usb-735773315.html <-probably more like that one Nov 22 00:08:05 are Mugen battery covers NOT including a lens cover⁇? wtf? Nov 22 00:18:22 nope they don't afaik Nov 22 00:18:58 a last link to the now correct type of tiveco universal PSU: http://www.amazon.de/Netzteil-Notebook-UNIVERSAL-TM-NB-902-TM-902/dp/B0035ELFF2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A32XODS80LGDHJ&qid=1353543350&s=generic&sr=1-1 Nov 22 00:19:16 recommended by DocS ;-) Nov 22 00:22:05 DocScrutinizer05: lame, know any hacks to fix it up? Nov 22 00:22:19 fix what? Nov 22 00:22:38 missing cover glass? Nov 22 00:22:47 missing door? Nov 22 00:23:00 it has a switch, emulating the door Nov 22 00:27:00 DocScrutinizer05: missing door Nov 22 00:27:08 otherwise the lens is sure to get scratched up in my pocket Nov 22 00:27:31 even when recessed by 10mm? Nov 22 00:27:52 sure, that won't stop stuff from jabbing in at it Nov 22 00:28:09 your screen must look terrible now :P Nov 22 00:28:12 well, I don't own such back cover Nov 22 00:28:25 ShadowJK: not too bad, but I don't use it for taking high res pics Nov 22 00:28:34 what Nov 22 00:32:18 actually, I again have to pester you, since the one I got me isn't available anymore (just to be true with you): http://s261498184.online.de/cms/index.php/en/nb-traveling-90.html Nov 22 00:50:46 meh, I checked it now, the DC *out* 12V@10A is a lie. It doesn't charge the care battery when plugged into mains Nov 22 00:52:09 still nice, but... Nov 22 00:53:33 maybe it can supply 12v on its laptop output? Nov 22 00:55:08 it can Nov 22 00:55:33 so thats the 10A then i suppos3e Nov 22 00:55:35 -3 Nov 22 00:56:04 but that needs additinal switches or plugging then, to change from Mains+charge_carbat to powered_from_carbat Nov 22 00:56:28 nope, that's 3.75A max. The 10A are *input* max Nov 22 00:56:38 I guess Nov 22 00:57:36 ah Nov 22 00:57:48 ~10*12*0.8 Nov 22 00:57:48 96 Nov 22 00:57:54 90W Nov 22 00:58:11 +24*3.75 Nov 22 00:58:19 ~24*3.75 Nov 22 00:58:19 90 Nov 22 00:58:57 0.8 efficiency Nov 22 01:01:23 probably a second small wallwart charger 12V unregulated is easier and cheaper than sophisticated relais stuff to do any switching in case of mains power blackout Nov 22 01:02:49 hmm, 4 * philips-1 ;-D Nov 22 01:15:20 OMFG! I probably shouldn't have opened it. Wonder how this thing dares to cary a "CE" stamp :-O Nov 22 01:18:25 the *whole* soldering side of PCB (primary side 230V as well as secondary side, USB etc) sit on a alu heatsink, isolated from that alu by a 0.1mm plastic foil - until pierced by the solder points / cut wires Nov 22 01:39:40 :-) Nov 22 01:40:22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi-b9k-0KfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player is amusing on that topic Nov 22 01:40:28 SpeedEvil: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20121122_001.jpg +002,003,004 seeing is believing here Nov 22 01:40:37 caution: contains Australian, Nov 22 01:40:56 eeek Nov 22 01:43:33 we got heee, saifa Nov 22 01:47:43 aah cheeez Nov 22 01:51:41 SpeedEvil: indeed, I probably sounded quite similar, at least my wording, when I looked at that PSU Nov 22 01:53:35 and os course, 90% of PSUs on eBay are like that Nov 22 02:00:19 awesome :-D Nov 22 02:01:18 blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! I mean: I'm THE DEVIL, do you understand? Nov 22 02:03:22 (90%) sure. Just recall my last rant about chinese optimization Nov 22 02:03:59 [2012-11-21 12:38:07] chinese method of "development" Nov 22 02:04:01 [2012-11-21 12:39:03] get 100 monkeys and make them remove components. As soon as device stops working, revert last component removal and declare that the golden sample Nov 22 02:04:08 muntz Nov 22 02:04:58 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_Muntz Nov 22 02:08:32 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntzing rather Nov 22 02:10:15 yeah, thanks for that ;-D. Didn't know Nov 22 02:10:35 amazing it's been an American to invent that Nov 22 02:11:29 ~listkeys muntz Nov 22 02:11:30 Factoid search of 'muntz' by key returned no results. Nov 22 02:12:37 ~muntzing is EE the Chinese way (though invented in USA): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntzing Nov 22 02:12:37 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Nov 22 02:32:23 hi, anyone using mountain lion ? I'm unable to install flasher-3.5 on it Nov 22 02:36:02 umm Nov 22 02:36:09 why? Nov 22 02:36:24 or: how? Nov 22 02:37:27 no idea, pkg claims to be successfully installed but it's not on /usr/bin, I can see the docs got installed though /usr/share/doc/flasher-3.5 Nov 22 02:37:48 maybe it's somewhere else? Nov 22 02:42:37 no idea how to do a search on macOS, console and `find` come to mind. But also looking into the installation pkg (by whatever means) to learn what path it's supposed to get installed to Nov 22 02:42:56 yea, I'm checking the logs Nov 22 02:43:08 it worked last time on the previous OS X version Nov 22 02:45:56 dunno, maybe OS X has something like $install-path that's different now? /opt/* and /usr/local/* might be valid install destinations Nov 22 02:57:26 mm I'll just ask on tmo Nov 22 02:57:36 and get flasher for other os in the mean time **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 22 02:59:58 2012