**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 11 03:00:00 2012 Dec 11 05:01:37 So what's the low-down? Supposedly LTE is supperior to HSPA+, but how does that relate to the difference between GSM and CDMA? Dec 11 05:04:02 wakka wakka Dec 11 07:00:49 internetishard: err sorry? Dec 11 07:02:20 DocScrutinizer, yes? Dec 11 07:02:56 I'm wondering how to make a proper question out of your last post Dec 11 07:03:22 I realize it's shit, but I wanted to be inflammatory. I usually learn more that way Dec 11 07:04:41 how does a battery relate to a dynamo? how does eggs ralte to milk? Dec 11 07:05:35 I don't know how to answer your question Dec 11 07:10:13 maybe reading about LTE in wikipedia could answer some of your questions, whatever they are Dec 11 07:16:02 Yeah, you're saying that CDMA, LTE, GSM, and HSPA+ are all separate and unrelated Dec 11 07:16:28 DocScrutinizer I'm not sure I phrased it that way. Maybe because GSM is usually coupled with HSPA+ Dec 11 07:16:53 nope Dec 11 07:17:07 UMTS is base technology for HSPA Dec 11 07:17:44 best you can get with GSM is EDGE+ Dec 11 07:18:52 UMTS is using WCDMA as carrier technology Dec 11 07:18:59 GSM is using TDMA Dec 11 07:19:52 so actually all four terms you mentioned are unrelated on a certain level Dec 11 07:20:29 of course they are related on a wider view, as all are technologies found in mobile phone domain Dec 11 07:20:57 I guess I'm just trying to cope with why several providers said that they'll support any HSPA+ compliant phone (with HSPA+), and none of them can deliver more than 1900mhz. How can they all be missing this? Dec 11 07:21:06 (I'm speaking of course about my n900 in san francisco) Dec 11 07:21:23 It seems impossible to actually get anything more than 2G on it. Dec 11 07:21:27 sorry, you lost me Dec 11 07:21:39 "For example, in standby with wifi and phone enabled but idle, the current usage is around .006 A, leading to a standby life of around 10 days. " Dec 11 07:21:44 How that can be ? Dec 11 07:21:57 I don't believe that N900 can handle a half of Dec 11 07:22:23 Even in stadby mode, wifi-module takes quite a lot of power Dec 11 07:22:23 XATRIX: turning off radio and screen, they say? Laptops can do it, eh? Dec 11 07:22:28 XATRIX: I verified exactly that 2 days ago Dec 11 07:23:11 internetishard, don't think, that laptops can handle more than 5h...I'm not talking about day Dec 11 07:23:12 DocScrutinizer: sorry, I guess I should first ask. Does it even make sense to you that zero providers within california can offer anything over 2G on the n900? Dec 11 07:23:36 XATRIX: In sleep mode. You mentioned some sort of standby.. Dec 11 07:24:52 internetishard: I could imagine that they simply don't have any UMTS service on a band that's supported by N900, yes Dec 11 07:25:11 internetishard, Mobile phone has no sleep mode, unless you're talking about powering off device, but even in this case it's still a bit operational, some intelligence companies, can track you while the phone is off, and the battery is in Dec 11 07:25:33 no Dec 11 07:25:44 But in fact, it has no sleep/hibernation mode Dec 11 07:25:48 that's a terribly made-up urban legend Dec 11 07:25:57 in fact it has Dec 11 07:26:34 DocScrutinizer05, really ? :) I was working for such a company about half of my life... I saw that 'magic' :) Dec 11 07:26:59 modem has sleep mode, you cen even set different sleep modes via ATLEEP=4 on e.g. calypso modem (used in Openmoko Freerunner) Dec 11 07:27:23 dang AT%sleep=4 Dec 11 07:27:23 I don't really know about N900, never interrested in, but most phones has this feature... Dec 11 07:27:37 Ah...you're talking about modem Dec 11 07:28:13 a phone that's off is off for all that matters regarding OTA Dec 11 07:28:34 unless you got a spy firmware installed by your wife Dec 11 07:28:50 But sleep != completely off mode... How it suppose to accept incoming calls if it is in sleep ? So it has to be passive mode at least Dec 11 07:29:00 No TX, but RX module should be powered up Dec 11 07:29:15 where that statement still applies but you can't really power it off anymore, it just will fake off-state Dec 11 07:30:11 I'm not even sure I've seen "3G" while in the US using the n900... Saw in plenty in europe Dec 11 07:30:18 nope, RX eats ~4..16mA, which would deplete your battery during a few weeks. Definitely no phone usually does that Dec 11 07:30:26 No no, not a spyware... I'm talking about if you press your red button, and hold it for ~5sec, and it so called 'shuts down'... In this case i can still triangle your position, until you completely remove you power cell... Most mobile phones does it Dec 11 07:30:33 Just switched to another provider that said they could provide HSPA... Looks like I put too much trust in them :P Dec 11 07:30:42 no way Dec 11 07:31:08 XATRIX: Not n900 Dec 11 07:31:25 I hope it really doesn't :) Dec 11 07:31:33 You can be sure Dec 11 07:31:45 That's a good knews :) Dec 11 07:32:26 Don't worry XATRIX, I'm paranoid too Dec 11 07:32:36 unless your battery is depleted after 4 weeks no matter if device is on or off, you can be rather sure that this "stealth RX" is a big hoax Dec 11 07:32:44 One of the reasons why every 3yo has a more powerful phone than me :P Dec 11 07:33:00 DocScrutinizer05: I am not sure whether it is urban legend or some devices really do it. Dec 11 07:33:24 seems iPhones had that *problem* Dec 11 07:33:31 I know what i'm talking about guys :) Dec 11 07:33:39 ooh Dec 11 07:33:51 good, I'm also knowing my business Dec 11 07:34:04 I saw this by myself :) I don't tell you the rumors, or legends :) Dec 11 07:34:06 But I have heard stories that some modiles can be triangulated even when off, giving the battery is charged Dec 11 07:34:10 my business is to build the hardwrae that you say has magic capabilities Dec 11 07:34:40 Ofcource i'm not talking about N900 directly, but i saw these tricks while i was in mil. Dec 11 07:35:26 And i'm talking about UA :) I can only imagine what kind of technologies has US gov, or DE or whatever Dec 11 07:35:35 In order to support HSPA on the n900, they need to use 1900mhz, right? Dec 11 07:36:21 listen, buddy. When you want to triangulate a device, it has to SEND, not only _receive_. In that case every airline would require you remove your battery from your phones so nobody makes it start to send during flight by triangulating it Dec 11 07:36:38 XATRIX: To all my knowledge, even puting the device offline (from power menu) is enough to power off the modem Dec 11 07:37:08 DocScrutinizer05: toldya, I don;t know if those are urban legends or for real Dec 11 07:37:24 won't argue Dec 11 07:37:56 The problem is that, somehow it's quite possible to make the device to send the signal out... Because the modem is not completely off Dec 11 07:38:03 That's what i'm talking about Dec 11 07:38:16 and it's a sad fact that even the best modem chips use at very least a 2 mA average from battery to stay somewhat responsive to inbound RF Dec 11 07:38:42 You know you can power on your PC (not even from the sleep mode) even from other country, while you did a Start->Shutdown windows Dec 11 07:38:53 It's called magic packet or WakeOnLan Dec 11 07:39:11 that's a completely different thing Dec 11 07:39:15 so what? ever looked at your NIC? the LEDs shine Dec 11 07:39:15 These things also supposed to have such a feature... Dec 11 07:39:26 and nope it doesn't work with my motherboards because the bios does not support it Dec 11 07:39:29 Sure... ever look at your mobile ? :0 Dec 11 07:39:35 XATRIX: be sure we all know it :P (wakeonlan that is) Dec 11 07:39:36 which means the psu still supplies the NIC with 5V Dec 11 07:39:49 Exactly! :) Dec 11 07:40:03 But the mains are off ;) Dec 11 07:40:08 the whole PCI(E) is supplied, along with USB Dec 11 07:40:09 yeah, and it eats exactly max 100mA Dec 11 07:40:27 along with some circuitry on mainboard Dec 11 07:40:29 Yea, it's can be possible Dec 11 07:40:31 and no, the mains is ON Dec 11 07:40:37 :nod: Dec 11 07:41:00 freemangordon: whole PCI(E) is supplied? I bet in that case, that my nvidia card draws power like mad todo nothing Dec 11 07:41:02 that's why there is a switch on most of the power supplies Dec 11 07:41:27 I'm rely on your words, cause the EE here is you! I'm just a man who saw these things in action. There was a time... Dec 11 07:41:30 merlin1991: there is 5V supplied to the bus, to support wakeon(lan/pci) Dec 11 07:42:10 merlin1991: check your BIOS, power settings Dec 11 07:42:11 and this is NOT from a tiny Lithium battery on the mainboard Dec 11 07:42:20 :nod: Dec 11 07:42:21 I hope you all wear your tinfoil hats, so the aliens don't triangulate you by your brainwaves! Dec 11 07:42:28 since such battery was flat during hours, nah minutes Dec 11 07:42:38 same with modem RX on phones Dec 11 07:42:40 Sure it's not :) Mainboard's bat is only for CMOS Dec 11 07:43:00 inz: I am not afraid, not thought here to be detected. Just a flat line :P Dec 11 07:44:04 the best GSM modems have some 4mA for deepsleep - you can't get lower than that and modem still not completely dead. Do your math, it will deplete battery during 2 weeks Dec 11 07:44:06 inz, aliens is an urban legends ;) Dec 11 07:44:42 DocScrutinizer05: is that in RX-only mode? Dec 11 07:44:43 freeman, but the contrails contain chemicals that make your brain oscillate in easily detectable pattern!-) Dec 11 07:45:15 so if your phone still works after staying 4 weeks in shelp or locker, you know it's NOT doing any secrit shit Dec 11 07:45:23 freemangordon: sure Dec 11 07:45:53 Never tried it so long :D Dec 11 07:46:02 freemangordon: a GSM modem is in RX-only mode 99.99% of the time Dec 11 07:46:17 even while "powered up" Dec 11 07:46:46 inz: my brain? who told you I have one? just a couple of neurons. Toldya, nothing to be detected here, I am not afraid :D:D:D Dec 11 07:46:53 in deepsleep it's not even in RX mode but completely sleeping 1.9 of 2s Dec 11 07:47:19 Sure ? But how the network still keep your online status ? Of it doesn't send anything ? Dec 11 07:47:36 they don't Dec 11 07:48:14 If you just pull the bat out, it should pass over 2-5 min, until the celluar IVR will tell you "the customer is currenly unavailable , please fu** off, or call later" Dec 11 07:48:30 XATRIX: that's cached Dec 11 07:48:31 the phone re-registers with BTS every T3212 period which is usually some hours Dec 11 07:48:34 :))))) Dec 11 07:49:50 and no, it talkes some 5 *seconds* until the BTS gives up on trying to reach the phone and get an answer, and then they tell caller "not available" Dec 11 07:49:56 DocScrutinizer05: iirc the phone re-registers itself with the cell that have the highest signal receive level Dec 11 07:50:14 But, it's can be possible too Dec 11 07:50:27 freemangordon: that's cell handover, something completely unrelated Dec 11 07:50:33 Maybe you have the point Dec 11 07:50:43 and also not even happening when both cells have same LAC Dec 11 07:50:45 sure, but it needs TX from the phone Dec 11 07:51:33 so base station can masure the signal level and send it back to the device. Don;t know how oftan that happens when not in call though Dec 11 07:53:07 so the network either changes your state to "not available / ot of range" when either a) T3212 expired and the phone doesn't re-register, or b) the BTS (or all BTS of one LAC zone) where the phone registered last try to reach the phone and phone doesn't answer during 5 seconds Dec 11 07:53:27 maybe 10 seconds, depending on carrier's setup Dec 11 07:54:02 freemangordon: that never happens when not in call (or doing data transfer) Dec 11 07:54:18 ok Dec 11 07:58:01 here T3212 is 600min iirc Dec 11 07:58:27 carrier can configure that Dec 11 07:58:52 phone will query T3212 time period on (re-)registration Dec 11 07:59:46 then shut up until handover to a different LAC zone or T3212 expired, or answering inbound call or initiating call or data transfer Dec 11 08:01:15 does it expect "pings" from the base station? Dec 11 08:01:21 no Dec 11 08:01:30 not really Dec 11 08:01:56 it monitors signal strength from servicing BTS and neighbour BTS Dec 11 08:01:57 but how the modem decides whether it is in a new cell area? Dec 11 08:02:03 aah Dec 11 08:02:16 ok Dec 11 08:02:52 When C1/C2 threshold is trippen in differnece of signal quality between servicing and one neighbour, it does a handover Dec 11 08:03:32 if neighbour is differnet LAC, it does re-register with new servicing BTS Dec 11 08:04:32 this re-register involves TX and resets T3212 as well Dec 11 08:04:57 and updates device location as recorded in location server of network Dec 11 08:05:32 mobile terminated call invite always is sent from all BTS of one LAC zone Dec 11 08:06:13 so network doesn't need to know which BTS of a LAC zone is currently servicing BTS of the phone Dec 11 08:08:05 any location you query from network while phone is off (e.g you removed battery) is that of the last BTS where the phone did a (re-)register Dec 11 08:08:31 it may be cached up to T3212 expiry Dec 11 08:10:56 http://www.rui.de/mobil/nobbiglossar.html (sorry for German) Dec 11 08:12:28 >> Dec 11 08:12:29 Location Update Dec 11 08:12:31 Das Telefon teilt mit einem Location Update dem Netz mit, in welcher Zelle innerhalb welcher LA es sich befindet. Innerhalb einer Location Area kann sich das Telefon frei bewegen. Ein Location Update findet statt a.) wenn das Telefon die LA verläßt oder b.) immer nach einer vom Netzbetreiber vorgegebenen Zeit, die durch den Parameter T3212 bestimmt wird. Dec 11 08:14:44 dang, an LAC zone (Location Area) can be up to 4500km^2 Dec 11 08:18:08 anyway, a GSM mobile equipment is in idle mode 99.999% of time, and even then it is using several mA of power Dec 11 08:18:51 so you can't pretend device is off when actually it's still in idle mode, that would pretty fast cause users frowning Dec 11 08:23:19 what you *could* do (as developer of a modem chip) is wake up on a RTC alarm every hour and then scan the network for a marker that says "IMEI 12345678, we want to triangle you". But then *all* BTS of a country had to send that marker for one hour, to make this sheme any useful. And still the scan for BTS on all bands during power up would eat comsiderable amounts of battery, so it wouldn't last much longer than maybe 2 or 3 months Dec 11 08:23:28 hello Dec 11 08:23:33 anybody know where the optware types hang out? Dec 11 08:24:04 and your customers would ask you what's that strange behaviour of your chips all about, since guys like me would notice such nonsense Dec 11 08:24:31 myth busted Dec 11 08:24:36 trying to build a newer gcc for my synology Dec 11 08:24:44 curius if i am supposed to --prefix=/opt for it Dec 11 08:43:06 I'm curious how can i make my CPU not to be active constantly ? Dec 11 08:43:12 Or is it active ? O_o Dec 11 08:43:25 6 mA when idle is great, but it is easy if everything does not go right to use lots more than this when idle. For example, if the CPU is constantly active, it will use over 100 mA - draining the battery in around 12 hours. Dec 11 08:43:58 So, trick is to configure the kernel to use tickless systmem patch ? Dec 11 08:46:05 Also i have no bq27x00_battery module for my kernel ? Dec 11 09:05:26 The handset is idle but i still have: Dec 11 09:05:28 Tue Dec 11 11:08:28 EET 2012 16133mA 34 total events, 6.772 events/sec Dec 11 09:05:29 Tue Dec 11 11:08:33 EET 2012 3244mA 82 total events, 16.347 events/sec Dec 11 09:05:29 Tue Dec 11 11:08:38 EET 2012 7791mA 29 total events, 5.782 events/sec Dec 11 09:05:29 Tue Dec 11 11:08:43 EET 2012 2954mA 45 total events, 8.935 events/sec Dec 11 09:05:29 Tue Dec 11 11:08:48 EET 2012 3215mA 31 total events, 6.163 events/sec Dec 11 09:06:04 That's not good right ? Dec 11 09:06:44 Also i have wifi online, to be able to connect to Dec 11 09:11:00 XATRIX: I told you yesterday that your system is messed up and probably needs a reflash Dec 11 09:12:03 though those figures above are not unusual, except for displayed current Dec 11 09:12:05 Yes, but i don't like the answer... Do this , close there, press that button.. i need to understand the cause of the problem.. is it a broken driver of bq27 device or whatever Dec 11 09:12:24 actually 7791mA is completely impossible Dec 11 09:12:58 So, if i get it right, if i have my battery of 1300mAh / 2954mA - it should be overloaded... Dec 11 09:13:10 XATRIX: the first instance is you don't *need* any bq27* driver Dec 11 09:13:37 How then i suppose to get the data ? Dec 11 09:15:18 XATRIX: there ARE NO TRICKS, the only 'trick' is NOT to install BS Dec 11 09:16:31 if kernel needed a patch to make >12h standby possible, you could bet it already got patched 4 years ago Dec 11 09:17:16 bah, Slashdot isn't working :( Dec 11 09:17:20 What does mean BS ? Dec 11 09:18:16 ~wtf BS Dec 11 09:18:18 BS: bullshit Dec 11 09:19:10 :) Dec 11 09:19:51 DocScrutinizer05: 3244mA is not just abnormal Dec 11 09:19:55 it is HOLYSHIT Dec 11 09:19:58 Can i ask you to connect to this headset and look yourself the sensors data ? Dec 11 09:20:21 XATRIX: I am surprised your n900 has not burned down Dec 11 09:20:30 Someone has to be betatester ;) Dec 11 09:20:58 If this was my N900 I would have backed up any important files and data and re-flashed by now Dec 11 09:21:02 rather than messing around trying to fix crap Dec 11 09:21:11 jonwil: see 7791mA Dec 11 09:21:27 Nokia-N900:~# power_stat Dec 11 09:21:27 Using kernel battery driver to read current. Dec 11 09:21:27 Tue Dec 11 11:24:54 EET 2012 13584mA 32 total events, 6.354 events/sec Dec 11 09:21:27 Tue Dec 11 11:24:59 EET 2012 3215mA 31 total events, 6.154 events/sec Dec 11 09:21:27 Tue Dec 11 11:25:04 EET 2012 3157mA 41 total events, 8.151 events/sec Dec 11 09:21:28 16133mA Dec 11 09:21:29 Crap :( Dec 11 09:22:00 I'm not trying to fix it, just experimenting with Dec 11 09:22:08 And ofcource i will reflash Dec 11 09:22:25 I'm just curious WTF :) Dec 11 09:22:26 16 Ampere! my mains fuse would blow Dec 11 09:22:49 I have power fuses in my headset looks like ;) Dec 11 09:23:52 you got "kernel battery driver" which is kinda deprecated Dec 11 09:24:10 you installed Pali's alternative bme Dec 11 09:24:32 * jonwil thinks those mA readings are bogus Dec 11 09:24:38 those currents are from an early completely fsckdup version of the bq27200.ko Dec 11 09:24:53 So, if i would use some DC converter, i could possibly have 10KV output ^^ Dec 11 09:25:07 jonwil: they are raw bq27200 readings multiplied by 256 or sth Dec 11 09:25:30 So, let's deinstall this crap Dec 11 09:26:08 Are you talking about this one ?https://meego.gitorious.org/~pali/meego-device-adaptation/pali-n900_libbme/blobs/replacement/src/bmeipc.c Dec 11 09:26:10 XATRIX: that's what I suggested yesterday, or was it a week ago? You'll have to reflash Dec 11 09:26:41 Look, i will reflash it... As i said, i want to experiment with the HW a bit Dec 11 09:27:00 After i make a good, initial setup, there would be no experiments... Dec 11 09:27:10 it's not really polite to pester us with bug reports aginst obsolete stuff that already got declared broken and also been replaced by newer versions Dec 11 09:27:42 it's an abuse of our time Dec 11 09:27:52 Tue Dec 11 11:31:13 EET 2012 43100mA 417 total events, 83.266 events/sec Dec 11 09:27:52 Tue Dec 11 11:31:18 EET 2012 34613mA 260 total events, 51.937 events/sec Dec 11 09:27:52 Tue Dec 11 11:31:23 EET 2012 30529mA 235 total events, 46.934 events/sec Dec 11 09:27:53 :) Dec 11 09:27:59 After i connected the charger :) Dec 11 09:28:20 Ok, let's kick it out of the headset Dec 11 09:30:22 Now i receive negative values ^^ Dec 11 09:32:04 congrats, so it's charging Dec 11 09:32:16 meh! reflash finally! Dec 11 09:32:36 wait wait wait a bit Dec 11 09:32:43 you did an apt-get dist-upgrade anyway, so really no more use in 'fixing' anything Dec 11 09:32:53 Also i found out i have "Battery Patch Testing" installed Dec 11 09:33:02 OMG!!! Dec 11 09:33:49 http://maemo.org/packages/view/batterypatch-testing/ Dec 11 09:34:18 "This is a highly configured patch that improves the Battery Life of your N900 using dbus-scripts" Dec 11 09:34:21 could you do me a favour? take a DIN-A0 sized paper, a marker, and write "NO SPEEDPATCH! NO BATTERYPATCH! EVER!" on it, then tag it on the wall above your PC Dec 11 09:34:41 "this improves battery life. Obtw, your device will be overclocked" Dec 11 09:34:43 sounds legit Dec 11 09:34:51 :) Dec 11 09:35:01 downclocked ;) Dec 11 09:35:20 those are the BS things you shouldn't install Dec 11 09:35:24 from 600 to 800 doesn't sound like downclocking for me Dec 11 09:35:49 *-patch are a big hoax Dec 11 09:36:05 done by a 12 year old script kidde supposedly Dec 11 09:36:36 http://hastebin.com/huyoyobadu.xml - i think these things i have installed on :) Dec 11 09:37:06 whytf is that xml Dec 11 09:37:16 CBA Dec 11 09:37:23 bbl Dec 11 09:37:36 i think this is a complete list of installed crap on my mobile Dec 11 09:38:58 Also, i don't think that using KP is a bad idea Dec 11 09:39:11 just to give you an idea: it's commonly known that some of the battery-usage-widgets are doing exactly that: use battery - LIKe MAD Dec 11 09:39:59 using KP *is* a bad idea, when you got no idea *why* you're needing it Dec 11 09:40:57 It has a better support for multiple filesystems , wider iptables support Dec 11 09:41:04 Also it has some overclocking features Dec 11 09:41:26 well, use all that and you never again ask for support here, since you're one of the experts Dec 11 09:41:31 DocScrutinizer05: then why are they on the repo still? Dec 11 09:41:42 :-P maemo.org fail Dec 11 09:41:58 Macer: since nobody has the authority to take them down Dec 11 09:42:06 lol Dec 11 09:42:13 are you kidding me? Dec 11 09:42:17 heh, i never told you i'm expert.. I just said i'm gonna use some this abilities of KP Dec 11 09:42:18 not at all Dec 11 09:42:23 wtf? :) Dec 11 09:42:34 or KP is only for Godlike people ? Dec 11 09:42:41 it's for all the cool kids Dec 11 09:42:56 taking down apps from repos can only be done when they're *dangerous* or violating some laws Dec 11 09:43:14 heh Dec 11 09:43:32 so some shit app just sits there festering? Dec 11 09:43:37 being utter crap doesn't suffice to take an app down Dec 11 09:43:42 yep Dec 11 09:45:25 Macer: install that crap app, find a problem it's causing - report. We'll do our best to find a reason to actually take those pkgs down then Dec 11 09:45:33 Also are these two things dangerous ? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/advanced-power-monitor/ and http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/advanced-power/ Dec 11 09:45:33 ? Dec 11 09:45:48 OS2008???? Dec 11 09:46:05 dafaq, probably fine... for 770 Dec 11 09:46:16 or even N800 Dec 11 09:46:23 and N810 Dec 11 09:46:24 I think it's just a section where the app is in :) Dec 11 09:46:50 I think nobody cares to put it into freemantle :) Dec 11 09:46:57 I think I ran out of time for this game Dec 11 09:47:03 :( Dec 11 09:48:11 DocScrutinizer05: isn't that like... a tester's job? Dec 11 09:48:42 Let ne guess... He thinks no :) Dec 11 09:48:51 usually yes, but our testers did not really any decent job on promoting pkgs Dec 11 09:49:00 o_O Dec 11 09:49:25 * XATRIX tries to remember the time he attended to advertisment company O_o Dec 11 09:49:52 i need to see where e7 prices are Dec 11 09:49:58 last i checked they were down to 299 :) Dec 11 09:50:12 260 is my sweet spot Dec 11 09:50:41 and pkgs in extras-devel, well they are not tested at all Dec 11 09:50:45 I wonder, why these guys from Nokia used a resistive sensor for N900 Dec 11 09:50:55 Sure they aren't Dec 11 09:51:00 because it's *awesome* Dec 11 09:51:02 I do some tests for me Dec 11 09:51:17 Why do you think it's better ? Dec 11 09:51:41 You have to scratch the screen with your stylus Dec 11 09:51:46 because I once tried to type a SMS on a friend's iPhone Dec 11 09:51:47 Most time Dec 11 09:51:48 well... n900 is a bit dated Dec 11 09:51:48 no you don't Dec 11 09:52:15 XATRIX: you can use much more of your screen's realestate Dec 11 09:52:17 XATRIX: i always got a protector for it Dec 11 09:52:30 but i get protectors for everything.. any glass can get scratched given the right circumstances Dec 11 09:52:32 cya folks Dec 11 09:52:36 DocScrutinizer05, So, what's bad in iPhone sensor ? I find it not so bad as the same class phones have Dec 11 09:52:41 DocScrutinizer05: get better soon! Dec 11 09:53:00 thanks Dec 11 09:53:07 XATRIX: iphone does double tap alot for me Dec 11 09:53:13 also, is it just me or you need to press slightly harder near the edge of the screen? Dec 11 09:53:16 Macer, Sure. i have it also, but sometimes i have feeling that i tap it very hard :( Dec 11 09:53:19 alot :) Dec 11 09:53:49 Hmm Dec 11 09:54:16 (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-alot) Dec 11 09:54:23 tadzik: for resistive screens it is yes Dec 11 09:54:36 BTW, i have used my hadset (including constant wifi) about an hour, and currently i plugged in the charger, to feed it up a bit Dec 11 09:54:49 it charged in about 5-7 min Dec 11 09:54:56 Until it said Battery is full Dec 11 09:55:54 XATRIX: you're using an obsolete version of Pali's bme - we are not interested in details about it Dec 11 09:56:27 Is it possible to remove it ? Dec 11 09:56:35 I can't find it in my apps manager Dec 11 09:56:36 reflash! Dec 11 09:56:46 crap Dec 11 09:57:08 I'm gonna reflash it next day, or maybe possible this evening Dec 11 09:58:23 Also i found modinfo bq27x00_battery Dec 11 09:58:32 parm: poll_interval:battery poll interval in seconds - 0 disables polling (uint) Dec 11 09:58:51 i'm curious polling takes cpu Dec 11 10:15:31 What is the current measurement parameter for i2c device ? Dec 11 10:16:15 http://hastebin.com/wuqewagifi.avrasm Dec 11 11:26:17 ~ping Dec 11 11:26:18 ~pong Dec 11 11:28:47 timeout Dec 11 11:55:27 Also, when i will replash device, is it ok if i would install software via apt-get ? Instead of HAM ? Dec 11 11:55:34 HAM does very slow Dec 11 11:59:31 usually it won't break stuff Dec 11 11:59:48 apt-get install is usually safe, but upgrading is probably a bad idea Dec 11 12:01:19 tadzil: why? Dec 11 12:01:36 I'm using apt-get except CSSU install. Dec 11 12:01:54 I think tadzik means --dis-upgrade Dec 11 12:01:58 dist* Dec 11 12:02:04 ayep Dec 11 12:02:16 well, better safe than reflash ;) Dec 11 12:02:28 better safe than using backupmenu, you mean ;) Dec 11 12:02:29 Ok. Dec 11 12:02:33 so regular upgrade should be safe? Dec 11 12:02:50 I'm using it without any problem. Dec 11 12:02:57 I've used it a lot without problems too Dec 11 12:03:08 That naturally doesn't mean it cannot cause problems:) Dec 11 12:03:27 Lava_Croft: exactly Dec 11 12:04:06 unit tests only catch known breakages Dec 11 12:04:31 So it is safe to use apt-get upgrade , and NOT to use apt-get dist-upgrade ? Dec 11 12:04:51 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10974729/Lumia920_n900_2.jpg Dec 11 12:04:56 goddamn HUGE Lumia 920 Dec 11 12:05:43 hehe Dec 11 12:05:45 It's amazing how much those front buttons on the Lumia completely wreck the awesome design Dec 11 12:05:58 "Put bigger screen in there!" "But the phone will get hu-" "Shut up!" Dec 11 12:06:14 Apparently its still nice to use with one hand though Dec 11 12:06:24 But I reckon it's designed for western euro hands;) Dec 11 12:06:27 I toyed with this Samsung Note recently Dec 11 12:06:43 wow, I got a winner! call did"mt tear down connectivity Dec 11 12:06:44 The Note disappointed me greatly Dec 11 12:06:49 it's almost as wide as N900 is long ;) Dec 11 12:06:59 yeah, the Note is ridiculous Dec 11 12:07:06 I would never put it in my jeanspocket and try to sit on a chair Dec 11 12:07:10 I bet it will snap in two Dec 11 12:07:19 Flimsy Samsung hw Dec 11 12:07:22 making phone calls with it does look stupid Dec 11 12:07:41 great Dec 11 12:07:47 Well, that does look stupid with my N900 and its case too Dec 11 12:07:52 DocScrutinizer51: can you be more descriptive? Dec 11 12:07:55 I love to look stupid Dec 11 12:08:12 luf: regaring what? Dec 11 12:08:19 DocScrutinizer51: wow, I got a winner! call did"mt tear down connectivity Dec 11 12:08:33 http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YXwYrpPsk3w/S5-EgQzSk6I/AAAAAAAAQSY/QDpPkei2AK8/IMG_0210.jpg Dec 11 12:08:40 That's how I kind of look when calling with N900 Dec 11 12:08:53 in 3 out of 4 a gsm call stops GPRS data connection Dec 11 12:09:26 maybe 15 of 16 Dec 11 12:09:31 DocScrutinizer51: what is the winner or solution? Dec 11 12:09:36 Maybe it'sbetter to use double modem system? Dec 11 12:09:45 One modem for data-connection, one for calls ? Dec 11 12:09:55 luf: luck Dec 11 12:09:55 And an extra battery? Dec 11 12:10:02 Hahaha Dec 11 12:10:13 XATRIX: it's too large to have 2 N900 :D Dec 11 12:10:15 Someone told me it costs a low power :) Dec 11 12:10:49 nah, 3G 'just works' afaik Dec 11 12:10:54 So 2 modems will are not going to kill bat in a shot :) Dec 11 12:11:11 also with two modems, you need two sims, right? Dec 11 12:11:35 rrright Dec 11 12:12:13 the question was, "there is no way you can use one sim with two modems" :) Dec 11 12:12:27 is that right? :) Dec 11 12:12:43 it's obviously a fsckdup spec amendment for GSM Dec 11 12:12:46 It suppose to use one modem for GPRS, one for CSD (actually voice calls) not to be disconnected from data-network Dec 11 12:12:53 i am not familiar with the specifications Dec 11 12:13:10 Sending an SMS breaks GPRS connectivity too Dec 11 12:13:43