**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 13 02:59:58 2012 Dec 13 05:35:48 * rZr http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88236# #Nokia #Ovi #Store will lose billing support on #N9 in #china , #MeeGo #HarmattanDev !n950club Dec 13 06:36:22 new operating system, Sailfish - created by the team behind the cancelled MeeGo system. Dec 13 06:36:42 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20553656 Dec 13 06:37:28 anything similar for maemo ? Dec 13 06:40:19 same roots Dec 13 06:40:59 a lot of the same team Dec 13 06:41:04 sure -- but will it run my n900 ? ;) Dec 13 06:41:48 well, much of the core already does Dec 13 06:43:20 I haven't dared try to get meego onto my n900 - I rely on it too much Dec 13 06:46:54 anyone has ctags for maemo? Dec 13 06:47:55 I found one, it's version is 5.6, a little old, and more important, it works not well for me... Dec 13 06:51:02 what's the best way to dual boot an N900 from eMMC and uSD? I can see tutorials for bootmenu, multiboot and uboot-pr13. which should I use? Dec 13 07:04:39 don't use multiboot Dec 13 07:08:30 ok thx. is u-boot the way to go then? I got this N900 second hand. it has kernel 2.6.28-omap1 and release RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1.002_PR_002, which seems to be newer than the latest available download. do I need to be careful, or will installing uboot-pr13 just work nicely? Dec 13 07:09:29 uBoot is the most clean implementation. i'd prefer it Dec 13 07:10:18 check your kernel with uname -a Dec 13 07:10:44 it says: Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Sun Aug 8 09:50:47 BST 2010 armv7l unknown Dec 13 07:11:04 uBoot is replacing your current kernel by a version bundled with uBoot Dec 13 07:11:17 should be ok for uBoot Dec 13 07:12:34 if I install uboot-pr13 it wants to remove kernel-power. that OK though isn't it because uBoot will flash mtd3 with uBoot + a kernel that will work with my userspace no matter what? Dec 13 07:13:03 damn, your uname doesn't look like KP Dec 13 07:13:59 maybe the package is installed but the last user flashed something else to mtd3? I'm not very confident and I want to avoid making the phone unbootable Dec 13 07:14:26 you always can recover by flashing it Dec 13 07:14:49 but yeah, it will most likely render it unbootable when you replace powerkernel by uBoot Dec 13 07:15:37 ok, cool thx. and if I flash the kernel from the 2009SE_20.2010.36-2 it will be a small downgrade but will boot? Dec 13 07:16:01 probably your best option is to reflash nonetheless, to know what's state of your N900 Dec 13 07:16:03 oh dear, so the userspace ( or initfs) depends tightly on the kernel? Dec 13 07:16:34 the kernel depends on kernel modules in rootfs Dec 13 07:17:17 kernel of 20.2010.36 and 21.2011.38 are identical Dec 13 07:17:55 rly? thx. where do I even find 21.2011.38? Dec 13 07:18:13 it's not on the page where you have to enter your IMEI Dec 13 07:18:18 it's an OTA security update Dec 13 07:18:26 only Dec 13 07:18:46 newest fiasco is 20.2010.36 Dec 13 07:19:06 thx so much, I'm starting to worry less Dec 13 07:21:27 I suggest you do a "backup" (which creates a list of apps to re-install, plus their settings), then flash PR1.3 aka 20.2010.36, and then "restore" your apps. Then you got an idea what's really on your device Dec 13 07:21:30 so if I install uboot-pr13, it will flash mtd3 but not mtd4 but that's OK because the kernel in uboot-pr13 is compatible with the initfs? Dec 13 07:22:01 PR1.3 == 20.2010.36. suddenly clearer Dec 13 07:22:42 21.2011.38 == Pr1.3.1 Dec 13 07:23:44 but since all that doesn't tell much about your kernel, I suggest you do a clean restart Dec 13 07:24:16 you never know what the former owner really did Dec 13 07:24:47 it would be nice to start from a clean slate. do I absolutely have to wipe the eMMC though? Dec 13 07:25:02 you should Dec 13 07:25:15 you also should have a backup of your MyDocs data Dec 13 07:25:30 and possibly a backup of your /home/user Dec 13 07:25:41 which isn't exactly easy to create Dec 13 07:26:27 ok. will do it all as directed then to be safest Dec 13 07:26:32 if you got BackupMenu, you can do proper almost complete backup (without kernel) Dec 13 07:27:09 can I just rsync over SSH to a backup server? Dec 13 07:27:16 sure Dec 13 07:27:24 ok, sweet Dec 13 07:27:43 ~jrtools Dec 13 07:27:44 i guess jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Dec 13 07:27:53 see bottom of that page Dec 13 07:28:33 just the last snippet relating to rsync? Dec 13 07:28:56 nah, see complete page, others found it has "interesting useful info" Dec 13 07:45:56 is 10.2010.13-2 the latest eMMC? Dec 13 07:48:39 yep, afaik Dec 13 07:48:49 there are only two of them Dec 13 07:49:15 you know this page, do you? Dec 13 07:49:18 ~flash Dec 13 07:49:19 from memory, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 13 07:52:21 yes, found that one but it's reassuring to have it recommended Dec 13 08:09:48 hello. the default video player stops playing if I blank the screen with the screen lock hardware slider. is there a way to stop this? Dec 13 08:12:21 -clear Dec 13 08:12:25 breh Dec 13 09:26:11 eichi: not afaik Dec 13 09:26:30 DocScrutinizer05, okay :/ Dec 13 10:30:58 DocScrutinizer05: lol... he isn't really asking "moderators" to be future "serveradmins"?! Dec 13 10:42:26 chem|st: hmm? Dec 13 10:42:56 that sounds like a recipie for disaster Dec 13 10:43:29 chem|st: if you're talking about me, no I'm not suggesting mods to magically change to server-admins, just to forum-admins/owners Dec 13 10:44:43 for server administration at large, I'm still hoping board can afford to pay a real admin to do that job on a professional basis Dec 13 10:45:14 hi there Dec 13 10:45:34 since such a guy at least has to keep daily track of cert warnings and system security updates, and do a daily backup Dec 13 10:45:39 hi ivgalvez Dec 13 10:46:22 I was reading logs Dec 13 10:46:57 shouldn't daily backups be automated? Dec 13 10:47:43 sure Dec 13 10:47:55 but you need to check if they succeeded Dec 13 10:48:26 also you maybe don't do daily security updates Dec 13 10:48:41 but you need to do it in a timely manner when needed Dec 13 10:49:05 and you need to check daily *if* it's needed to close some vulnerabilities Dec 13 10:49:46 yep Dec 13 10:50:49 some guy in that tmo thread questioned the need of autobuilder. I wonder what's the alternative. uploading blobs and hoping for source being inline with the binary, and the binary not being malware in fact? Dec 13 10:52:06 honestly running services like autobuilder is no effort, doesn't matter if you got one or 5 autobuilders up and running Dec 13 10:52:06 we already proposed Nemein to retire autobuilder for Maemo versions before Fremantle Dec 13 10:52:16 ^^^ Dec 13 10:52:17 as there are no usual builds for them Dec 13 10:52:36 doesn't save us anything Dec 13 10:52:42 and use a VM for autobuilder on Fremantle as the amount of buildings is not so huge Dec 13 10:53:13 administrating it, would be painful in any case Dec 13 10:53:49 I suggest not to let nemein do all that, and I suggest board doesn't suggest technical details that board, with all due respect, has no clue about Dec 13 10:54:10 s/to board/to nemein/ Dec 13 10:54:22 err nevermind Dec 13 10:55:05 I suggest not to let nemein do all that, and I suggest board doesn't suggest technical details to nemein, that board - with all due respect - has no clue about Dec 13 10:55:21 u-boot is in extras-devel Dec 13 10:55:33 autobuilder working Dec 13 10:55:39 but wiki still not :-( Dec 13 10:55:48 yep Dec 13 10:55:54 that's nemein for you Dec 13 10:56:36 I feel reluctant to hire such service for huge amounts of money for our future infra Dec 13 10:59:16 aiui nemein is about to buy 5 units http://www.fujitsu.com/fi/products/computing/servers/primergy/rack/rx300/, migrate all stuff to those for immense amounts of money, and then drops that crap on board's feet, asking for colocation fees of several hundered EUR per month, no admin at all, and no bugs fixed Dec 13 11:00:14 this will be the end of maemo.org Dec 13 11:03:04 honestly according to http://nemein.com/en/ they are no server admins, they offer development of web-services Dec 13 11:04:46 aiui that (for unknown reasons non-public) maemo-infra.pdf paper tells that whole infra needs ~1.9TB, but they throw 5 64GB-RAM octocore servers on it Dec 13 11:04:54 sounds a tad unbalanced Dec 13 11:06:14 and honestly, taking down 3 of 5 autobuilders doesn't save us anything regarding requirements of that infra Dec 13 11:06:35 which package contains "u-boot-update-bootmenu"? Dec 13 11:06:50 ~pkg Dec 13 11:06:51 somebody said pkg was http://maemo.org/packages/ Dec 13 11:07:07 ~u-boot-update-bootmenu Dec 13 11:08:11 ah, cool thx. no packages include that command apparently Dec 13 11:12:59 got it at http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/u-boot-tools/2012.10-rc3-1/ Dec 13 11:13:09 thank you Dec 13 11:14:24 Can I export all contacts to a given directory from the CLI? Dec 13 11:17:42 2 TB storage or 2 TB ram? Dec 13 11:18:16 fasta, write simple python program which export contacts from ebook. our abook in maemo is bases on evolution, so you can use python ebook module Dec 13 11:18:24 fasta: err, dunno how to do that from CLI, but I guess there should be a possibility, since some apps are doing it as well Dec 13 11:18:32 ShadowJK: storage Dec 13 11:19:05 oooh, wait, I got such python program Dec 13 11:19:32 maemo infrastructure is 2TB storage o.O? Dec 13 11:20:03 iirc Mer's infra is around $300 / month too Dec 13 11:20:03 DocScrutinizer05, will TMO use vbulletin? Dec 13 11:20:24 that's the plan for now Dec 13 11:20:25 or it migrate to some oss forum sw? Dec 13 11:20:42 poor effort/gain ratio Dec 13 11:20:56 Has TMO been programmed inefficiently? Dec 13 11:21:13 200 bucks for vBulletin licence are peanuts compared to migration effort Dec 13 11:21:15 Oh, I see. PHP... Dec 13 11:21:16 I'd like to see proper email support in forum Dec 13 11:21:50 e.g with in-reply-to & references headers + support to reply to forum by email Dec 13 11:21:51 Pali: support patches :-D Dec 13 11:22:27 wouldn't you like to take responsibility for vBulletin admin? Dec 13 11:22:46 s/support/provide/ Dec 13 11:23:08 DocScrutinizer05, I think that for some oss forum there could be patches (maybe) but I doubt that there are patches for vbulletin Dec 13 11:23:09 Pali: we're short on professional manpower Dec 13 11:23:12 DocScrutinizer05: how many non-static pages does it need to show per second at top load currently? Dec 13 11:23:39 Or is there already a topic listing such topics anywhere? Dec 13 11:23:53 such constants* Dec 13 11:23:55 fasta: those are numbers we don't have, since nobody is sharing them to "us" Dec 13 11:24:08 DocScrutinizer05: sounds like a recipe for disaster then. Dec 13 11:24:57 DocScrutinizer05: the cost to get such a number is very low to obtain such a number if you have access to the server logs. Dec 13 11:25:09 But I don't suppose I am telling you anything new. Dec 13 11:25:29 fasta: we (council, board) don't have access to such logs Dec 13 11:25:52 DocScrutinizer05: did you try asking for that information to whoever is going to transfer it? Dec 13 11:26:18 the idea however is to get as good a hw as we can afford, and then cram everything on it to share the available computing grunt Dec 13 11:27:02 also it's not actually an unheard situation when tmo gets slow on weekends Dec 13 11:27:15 mostly to DDoS attacks or sth, I guess Dec 13 11:28:02 and we simply can't afford to tailor everything to cope with maximum load we might see Dec 13 11:28:52 rather we will prioritize tasks, so autobuilder just takes longer to finish when tmo load is high Dec 13 11:29:26 hope I made it to sketch a picture of what the situation is like Dec 13 11:30:13 fasta: we're not talking about mere tmo migration, it's *whole* maemo.org infra we need to migrate and consolidate Dec 13 11:30:19 tmo is just the start Dec 13 11:31:14 DocScrutinizer05: who is paying for all this? Dec 13 11:32:16 fasta: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88222 Dec 13 11:40:44 If you move to another piece of forum software, you probably would want to have something with a perfect security track record. Dec 13 11:55:19 we for now don't plan to abandon vBulletin Dec 13 11:55:41 right now we really got other things on our plate Dec 13 11:58:12 some time end of February maybe anybody can approach council and ask for a copy (minus account data) of tmo db, import that to a local setup of whatever forum sw he plans to use, and demonstrate that tmo actually can run on that. Then we for sure will find a way to move from vBulletin to that new system. But not now, please Dec 13 12:05:48 DocScrutinizer05, and who is maintainer of download.maemo.nokia.com? Dec 13 12:06:16 increasing gpg key expire date is needed Dec 13 12:06:59 Pali: guess! Dec 13 12:07:15 nokia? nemein? or somebody other? Dec 13 12:07:20 aiui nemein is maintainer of all maemo.infra right now Dec 13 12:07:33 Pali: your friend-in-ping :P Dec 13 12:07:36 except tmo Dec 13 12:07:40 also of *.nokia.com subdoimain? Dec 13 12:07:47 ping X-Fade Dec 13 12:07:48 :D Dec 13 12:07:52 :D:D:D Dec 13 12:07:53 ~seen X-Fade Dec 13 12:07:58 x-fade is currently on #maemo (6d 10h 2m 14s) #harmattan (6d 10h 2m 14s) #meego (6d 10h 2m 14s) #maemo-ssu (6d 10h 2m 14s), last said: 'ZogG_laptop: ?'. Dec 13 12:09:50 look: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=ping+X-Fade Dec 13 12:11:04 takes ages the query to finish Dec 13 12:11:46 Pali: you're missing pongs :P Dec 13 12:12:43 * freemangordon loves it: Dec 13 12:12:47 "lets see. Standard Operating Procedure. 1) bitch for a few minutes. 2) ping X-Fade 3) bitch some more 4) perhaps file a bug report" Dec 13 12:15:42 freemangordon: don't forget "~seen X-Fade" Dec 13 12:26:51 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, right :D Dec 13 12:33:28 DocScrutinizer05: "payed" admin? you mean managed server Dec 13 12:35:51 forum admin is no big deal... that is what I do now + some more responsibility - moderation, if need be I can do the backups and maintenance too but not on a server scale, I do not have the time to look after another server atm Dec 13 12:39:12 have we lost lumiaman and estel for good now? haven't read any complaints the last weeks... Dec 13 12:58:24 chem|st: no, not exactly. Managed server is an option for regular operation, for migration we need some specialist who's doing the heavy lifting for us Dec 13 13:02:37 chem|st: my plans just this minute are: I get a deecent dedicated server from hetzner or servdr4you, we set up a vserver on that, for tmo. Reggie helps us installing new vBulletin and migrating stuff. Then I'd appreciate if you'd take responsibility of doing usual level day-by-day admin of that vBuliten vserver - basically just taking care about vBulletin itself (and it's administration/moderation), backups, having an eye on syslog etc Dec 13 13:04:12 if something server admin seems due or pending, you contact the server admin about it Dec 13 13:04:33 : Dec 13 13:04:33 you get root on that vserver Dec 13 13:04:37 DocScrutinizer05: how about aws? Dec 13 13:04:52 aws? Dec 13 13:05:04 amazon web services Dec 13 13:05:09 nah! Dec 13 13:05:44 having the website and the DB separated, automagically backuped in the cloud... ~20eur7m Dec 13 13:05:50 1st rule: free data volume Dec 13 13:06:27 2nd rule, full control over the server Dec 13 13:07:03 otherwise we could use a vserver from hetzner or whomever, for as little as 10..15/month Dec 13 13:09:34 alternatively we could run the whole thing on your server, if you don't mind and you got free data volume Dec 13 13:10:22 (found a tmo post of reggie where he states average traffic = 500GB/month) Dec 13 13:12:01 DocScrutinizer05: in which direction Dec 13 13:12:13 advantage: this server already exists and we already got (or are about to get) the db from Reggie on it. Once we got proper maemo.org new server(s) set up, we easily can migrate Dec 13 13:12:49 true Dec 13 13:12:53 (direction) nfc, he doesn't state that, I would guess download Dec 13 13:13:56 ok this is either way non of my business Dec 13 13:14:52 I feel that's a very attractive (interim) solution since all bits fall into place magically: you have control over the existing server, you know Reggie, you're designated future tmo admin... Dec 13 13:16:05 you already passed the "face control" for handling privacy stuff in tmo Dec 13 13:17:05 (reggie's post) tmo p=1232427 Dec 13 13:17:53 (that's sooooo fsckng annoying to have mail on another PC than the one I'm mainly using) Dec 13 13:24:31 chem|st: what do you think? Dec 13 13:43:59 chem|st: btw I see you're already on the CC of that mail from ivgalvez Dec 13 13:48:05 DocScrutinizer05: what do I think about what? me being tmo admin? or the insane idea of property moving around is an issue of users Dec 13 13:48:40 sorry? property moving around? Dec 13 13:49:01 I meant setting up tmo on your server (temporarily) Dec 13 13:49:04 sry, we lost your data to an insane hoster in europe who is now maintaining tmo... Dec 13 13:49:23 lol, yeah Dec 13 13:49:30 DocScrutinizer05: do you really think I have any mysql-db? Dec 13 13:49:59 + I cannot host things on company property just for fun... Dec 13 13:50:09 I would agree you need your users' agreement to move privacy data from EU to shitty US, but I'd not feel concerned for the other direction Dec 13 13:51:02 as long as you do not give access to thirdparties you do not have to think about anything Dec 13 13:51:31 I for sure won't set up a server in USA with insane pricing and insane laws, just because somebody thinks it's a politically correct thing to do Dec 13 13:51:42 google moves your data around like it is suitable for the service Dec 13 13:52:07 exactly. And I can somewhat guarantee that for any server in Germany, but definitely NOT for any server anywhere in USA Dec 13 13:52:17 noone but goo knows where it is... Dec 13 13:52:39 Google sells your data to Satan. Dec 13 13:52:55 nope, google *is* Dec 13 13:52:57 Aoyagi_joytop: what they sell to US-gov? Dec 13 13:53:22 it's just that US-gov has a deal with satan Dec 13 13:53:30 What? US govt doesn't need to -buy- the data. They just take them. Dec 13 13:53:54 And of course, EU regulates in more and more mandatory data. Dec 13 13:55:58 anyway Dec 13 13:56:12 chem|st: thanks for clarifying situation about your server Dec 13 13:56:35 I'll have to get 'my own' server then Dec 13 13:56:51 that's been my plan since yesterday anyway Dec 13 13:57:23 I can afford one year of dedicated server rental right now, so wtf let's just do it Dec 13 13:58:06 if we run into limits with 32GB RAM and 2TB storage, we can still ponder how to upgrade Dec 13 13:58:41 if somebody doesn't like EU based hetzner server, your problem Dec 13 13:59:36 I just need to find some help on administration, maybe one of my friends can spend that much time to do me a favour Dec 13 13:59:52 DocScrutinizer05: I do not have an own server, I have managed hosting for my private stuff, 4 websites to maintain where one has mysql I do not maintain myself (for good reasons!) Dec 13 14:00:34 I'm pretty much aware of those reasons :-/ Dec 13 14:00:46 DocScrutinizer05: if you need help with setting everything up, that is not a problem Dec 13 14:00:52 semms a lot of people aren't, though Dec 13 14:01:03 thanks a lot! Dec 13 14:02:17 but daily-kinda maint. I do not have time for till I have a new job and moved out of this area... Dec 13 14:02:22 I'll give hetzner a call, asking them what deal they can offer me, about "managed". Maybe we can get some services of "managed" for "free", like backup on net storage etc Dec 13 14:03:22 hell, one of my friends is ex-hetzner-employee Dec 13 14:03:42 l8er Dec 13 14:03:46 o7 Dec 13 14:03:49 o/ Dec 13 14:04:21 o_| Dec 13 14:07:07 DocScrutinizer05: if you go for Hetzner, check out their server auction, where they have used servers for good prices... ok they don't include backup/call support... and are not managed: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market but evt. an option... Dec 13 14:07:40 "good prices" as in cheaper than a new order... Dec 13 14:11:07 http://seattletimes.com/html/microsoftpri0/2019853243_goldman_sachs_microsoft_os_has_gone_from_more_than.html Dec 13 14:14:55 kontio: sorry what? used servers? I don't care which server hw they run my "server" on, they even swap that every now and then Dec 13 14:15:36 I rent a service, not buy a hardware. That's exactly what Nemein/Nokia is trying to sell us, and we don't want it Dec 13 14:17:28 kontio: I don't get it, just checked that robot site Dec 13 14:17:44 the servers there under that link which they offer were used by other customers, so they are cheaper... afaik if you order otherwise you get a new one (I have no connection to them, but that is my understanding)... Dec 13 14:19:01 I didn't follow all your requirements... but I thought you might want to check it out... before you order... Dec 13 14:19:57 I just checked for 8GB 2TB Dec 13 14:20:04 ~100EUR Dec 13 14:21:45 while https://order.server4you.de/pages/dedicated/index.php offers 32GB 4TB for 58EUR Dec 13 14:22:00 so maybe hetzner isn't first choice Dec 13 14:22:14 kontio: thanks for the info :-) Dec 13 14:22:55 yeah "good prices" compared to their own standard offers :-) Dec 13 14:25:07 DocScrutinizer05: sorry to interrupt but server4you are not known to have good after-sales support; referring to server4you.com, i don't know if the german counter-part has the same issue... Dec 13 14:26:43 thedead1440: yeah, seems it's not that easy to pick the right server provider Dec 13 14:28:42 DocScrutinizer05: I was under the impression of a US-based host being a must; currently compiling a list of all options of what your'll can do... One of the top choices would be https://host4offshore.com/ Dec 13 14:29:03 i was thinking of getting one for forum+wiki+docs Dec 13 14:29:19 while another one or two for repos+firmwares Dec 13 14:29:24 I'm not available for administration of US-based servers Dec 13 14:29:36 the firmwares are the killer around 2TB on their own Dec 13 14:30:11 then ovh would be suitable for you? Dec 13 14:30:24 and for sure I won't get a US based server when I pay it from my own pocket Dec 13 14:30:33 http://www.ovh.co.uk/dedicated_servers/kimsufi.xml Dec 13 14:30:42 KS R-8G Dec 13 14:31:32 well, sounds good Dec 13 14:32:23 our backup plan is running on KS 2G but due to firmwares we have run out of space; most probably will have to upgrade our own to add another KS R-8G if your'll don't get it done soon :D Dec 13 14:33:27 (( the firmwares are the killer around 2TB on their own)) sorry? Dec 13 14:33:42 n9 + n900 firmware files are around 2TB in size Dec 13 14:33:50 o.O Dec 13 14:33:58 ivgalvez asked us to back it up as there is no confirmation Nokia will continue to host them Dec 13 14:34:40 how T H F can firmwares be 2GB? Dec 13 14:34:40 the firmware backup has been the pita especially with the huge variants etc; brkn has had to change the download script thrice Dec 13 14:34:49 tb not gb... Dec 13 14:34:54 TB Dec 13 14:35:10 when firmware for N9 is like 1GB in size Dec 13 14:35:11 count this way; every n9 variant has a 1.16Gib rootfs + 1.7Gib emmc on average Dec 13 14:35:43 the global n9 is 1.16Gib+255Mib while some european variants are 1.16Gib+2.4Gib Dec 13 14:35:53 most though are in the 1.16+1.7 bracket Dec 13 14:35:57 260 variants Dec 13 14:36:00 meh, I'm not that sure board or council ever considered backing up firmwares of HARM on maemo.org infra Dec 13 14:36:06 pr1.0, pr1.1, pr1.2, pr1.3 Dec 13 14:36:28 exactly that's why ivgalvez said to just back it up... Dec 13 14:36:42 that's a Nokia madness nobody would want to touch with a 10-feet pole Dec 13 14:36:51 brkn posted all the variants in the backup thread but sadly we get little response :( Dec 13 14:37:29 oh and tablets-dev.nokia.com/n900 has very few variants but check it out on navifirm and there are a heck lot more variants Dec 13 14:37:36 ever pondered compressing that shit? Dec 13 14:37:49 to what extent? Dec 13 14:37:53 after all they probably differ in a few bytes only Dec 13 14:38:22 now its almost all mirrored; currently a md5 and shasum match is going on to identify duplicate emmc.bin files and hardlink them Dec 13 14:38:44 yup that's the main frustration; Dec 13 14:38:59 they differ by not much but since you can't downgrade variants you need to have all variants Dec 13 14:39:54 DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1302208&postcount=46 that is the link onwards explaining about firmwares Dec 13 14:39:58 see the replies for yourself Dec 13 14:40:50 also just saw reggie saying the vB licence is $250, coupons should be able to bring that down by 40% Dec 13 14:41:38 thedead1440: so what's the deal with your servers? Dec 13 14:42:09 nothing, skeiron.org is a backup in case your'll have any issues your'll can utilize it... its for your'll to use or discard :) Dec 13 14:43:13 currently we have it paid till the 20th, i'll most probably renew for another month so that to have a viable backup in case something screws up in the official efforts... If all good in january i'll just discard everything Dec 13 14:43:36 hmm Dec 13 14:43:48 I don't see "all good in January" Dec 13 14:43:57 I wonder, guys - if you've got multiple files which are mostly the same, and you compress all of them into the same .zip file(or tar/gz or w/e) will it be able to vastly reduce the size? Dec 13 14:44:08 By keeping only the unique parts Dec 13 14:44:19 robbiethe1st: that's exactly what I just suggested Dec 13 14:44:37 OK, so it should work then... Dec 13 14:44:41 robbiethe1st: we can do that but 1st priority is to have all content on hand; compression can be done anytime Dec 13 14:45:19 Yeah. I wasn't talking about that specifically, but curious in general Dec 13 14:45:32 we are still missing tablets-dev.nokia data for pre-n900 devices as i'm unable to access the pages w/o a productID and can't find a way to bypass it :( Dec 13 14:45:34 I kinda feel nausea and headache from all that stuff right now, and I got some RL duties to accomplish. Sorry, bbl Dec 13 14:46:15 thedead1440, I've got a N770. If you can get someone to remind me Saturday(when I'm home and have it handy) I could give you my Product ID Dec 13 14:48:36 robbiethe1st: thank you! i'll give you a reminder ;) Dec 13 14:49:18 isn't there a way to bypass it? i read on tmo quite somewhile back about a way to bypass the n900 one but can't find the bloody post... Have a n900 here so that has been taken care of but before those are the issue Dec 13 14:50:35 Personally, I used to find a N900 imei number, then change it by a couple chars,,, Dec 13 14:50:38 let me in fine Dec 13 14:51:44 tried changing the last 3 chars no luck Dec 13 14:52:44 Nah, for a N900 Dec 13 14:52:52 or find someone's on google Dec 13 14:52:56 that's another option Dec 13 14:53:00 i have the n900 so have the imei Dec 13 14:53:11 Also, I've got to get going; cya all later. Dec 13 14:53:17 thanks! Dec 13 14:54:04 N810 done Dec 13 14:54:08 o/ Dec 13 15:23:06 Look here: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libhildondesktop/HDStatusPluginItem.html#hd-status-plugin-item-set-status-area-widget Dec 13 15:23:31 this *public* hildon plugin function is reserved only for closed source nokia clock plugin :D:D:D:D Dec 13 15:23:44 merlin1991, freemangordon, DocScrutinizer05 ^^^^ Dec 13 15:23:49 this is really funny :D Dec 13 16:39:25 Here is simple script which dump bq2415x status: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/charger_print.sh Dec 13 16:39:50 it can read registers via i2cget or from bq2415x_charger kernel driver Dec 13 16:40:09 ping DocScrutinizer05 Dec 13 19:41:45 yo Dec 13 19:42:24 freemangordon: ping Dec 13 19:42:43 vi_: yo. there's meeting on #maemo-ssu, feel free to join Dec 13 19:43:12 oh Dec 13 19:43:13 ok Dec 13 21:35:45 * ShadowJK had a bq24150 reading script too until realizing that reading from it has side effects Dec 13 21:36:38 ShadowJK, I will need some help for bq2415x kernel driver Dec 13 23:13:25 ok Dec 13 23:13:53 now can anyone tell me why the browser restarts its' process when you kill it? Dec 13 23:14:48 if a process is killed, it's usually for a good reason.. restarting is just silly Dec 13 23:16:18 FIQ: It restarts because it might have crashed Dec 13 23:17:03 well.. Dec 13 23:17:17 ok so how do you kill it for real? Dec 13 23:17:48 microb is being silly and taking 30+36% cpu atm Dec 13 23:18:00 and over half of RAM Dec 13 23:43:22 FIQ, it keeps itself in RAM all the time for quickstart. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 14 02:59:35 2012 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 14 03:00:19 2012 Dec 14 03:09:59 did nokia pulled the plug on scratchbox.org too? Dec 14 04:05:27 I've just donated to the hildon foundation; have you? Dec 14 11:13:36 * ShadowJK wonders how much running extras builder on AWS would cost Dec 14 11:18:06 ShadowJK: In kittens killed? Dec 14 11:22:00 why AQWS? Dec 14 11:22:04 AWS Dec 14 11:22:12 moo btw Dec 14 11:24:31 there's a hefty discussion going on behind the scenes whether we should rent a server just for tmo now, or rather get a big iron with unlimited traffic and sufficient storage (>=2TB) and RAM (>=16GB) and CPU grunt, and run VMs on that Dec 14 11:25:14 I'm all for the latter, since administration would be way easier, for the whole thing Dec 14 11:25:25 also it's for sure cheaper Dec 14 11:26:47 main cost factor however is administration, since you need a dedicated responsible expert to deal with backups, updates, security threats, hw defects, whatnot else Dec 14 11:27:23 this is *not* a task for casual admin volunteers, however willing they might be to help Dec 14 11:30:18 requirements for such an administrator are: 24/7 available, daily checks of CERT warnings etc, daily checks of server's syslog, munin/other-diagnostic-tool, regular updates of system. etc pp Dec 14 11:31:19 for migration the tasks also include setup of the new system, which is a fulltime job for several days, even weeks Dec 14 11:42:41 there's the theoretical option to get managed servers, where a part of those recurring tasks is done by the hoster. But those are so expensive that you could find your own admin and pay him for doing that job for you. and main argument against managed servers: you don't have full control over your server, means you're not free to install/configure whatever you like on it Dec 14 13:50:27 ok, modem once more doesn't connect data/GPRS when on 2G. What's been your suggestions? restart sccd? Dec 14 13:53:00 ~ping Dec 14 13:53:01 ~pong Dec 14 13:53:08 ~ping Dec 14 13:53:08 ~pong Dec 14 13:53:27 cycle via offline mode Dec 14 13:53:55 VMs are nice in the way you can quickly move entire system from one plac to another Dec 14 13:54:32 didn't work last time Dec 14 13:54:32 i'll try again, bbiab Dec 14 13:54:39 try restarting sscd, it should be a bit more than offline mode Dec 14 13:55:06 * ShadowJK can switch between 3g and 2g and back without losing the connection Dec 14 13:55:37 never actually tried that on the n900, my operator is 3g-only Dec 14 14:00:41 ~ping Dec 14 14:00:42 ~pong Dec 14 14:00:50 back Dec 14 14:00:56 no luck Dec 14 14:02:28 I'll reboot, known to cure this :-/ Dec 14 14:02:59 bbl Dec 14 14:03:58 restart, reboot, reinstall Dec 14 14:07:00 ~ping Dec 14 14:07:01 ~pong Dec 14 14:07:27 DocScrutinizer51: who is winning? Dec 14 14:07:51 :-)|:-/ Dec 14 14:08:14 luf: boot Dec 14 14:08:42 so... cellmo won Dec 14 14:09:00 yup Dec 14 14:09:07 i bet he did that on purpose Dec 14 14:16:33 hmmm... i accidentally deleted my whole MyDocs-folder, so now everything looks a bit odd :). any suggestions? is there some fancy package i can install? Dec 14 14:17:34 MyDocs contains user data Dec 14 14:17:42 what do you mean everything looks odd? Dec 14 14:18:00 the directories are recreated at boot time, so just reboot Dec 14 14:19:36 ok, then i've messed something else up Dec 14 14:19:46 i've got no fonts Dec 14 14:19:51 and no icons Dec 14 14:21:03 i guess you deleted more than just the MyDocs directory :/ Dec 14 14:21:34 just restore your backup from the day before Dec 14 14:21:34 i was trying to setup a development environment on my phone, and something must have went wrong Dec 14 14:23:18 yep, something seriously wrong Dec 14 14:23:24 suid: restore a full backup Dec 14 14:23:51 like, a backupmenu backup Dec 14 14:23:55 yeah, i guess i'll have to do that when i get back home Dec 14 14:31:30 suid: you probably nuked /home or /opt Dec 14 14:32:17 ~ding Dec 14 14:32:17 dong Dec 14 14:32:21 yeah, i think so too Dec 14 14:32:48 actually, i'm sure of it, since i moved stuff around to make room Dec 14 14:32:49 check 'mount' Dec 14 14:33:22 can't check anything, since i don't have any fonts, i can't see anything Dec 14 14:33:23 you might be able to undo what you did Dec 14 14:33:33 ssh? Dec 14 14:33:40 via wlan? Dec 14 14:33:53 or BM shell Dec 14 14:34:05 or rescueOS Dec 14 14:34:10 yeah, but i'm not at home, so i don't know which ip the phone has Dec 14 14:34:34 i'll probably just reflash it. it's full of crud anyhow. Dec 14 14:34:55 good plan Dec 14 14:35:33 * chem|st_ has not volunteered, he was volunteered Dec 14 14:36:06 chem|st: :-) Dec 14 14:36:19 HOLIDAYZ! Dec 14 14:36:31 hey!!!! Dec 14 14:36:40 * chem|st is finally on vacation now Dec 14 14:37:19 chem|st: so you'll work 12 hours per day on N900 now. Good :) Dec 14 14:37:38 luf: your aunt is! Dec 14 14:37:48 seems luf beat me on that comment Dec 14 14:38:39 I will get my sister to do that next week while i'm surfing dungeons in diablo3! Dec 14 14:39:34 already divorced? ;-D Dec 14 14:40:07 nope, she's coming over to my place 2morow Dec 14 14:40:33 and pls don"t make fun of that Dec 14 14:43:01 sorry Dec 14 14:43:19 not exactly meant as fun Dec 14 14:43:31 somebody got a definite guide on using the dummy network plugin to use and over usb connection? Dec 14 14:44:21 merlin1991: only seen one for diablo Dec 14 14:44:28 chem|st: so in other words you took vacation when your sister is over so she can cook for you do your loundry do your cssu work whilst you play diablo3? Dec 14 14:44:45 merlin1991: there is one on wiki Dec 14 14:44:51 s/loundry/laundry/ Dec 14 14:44:51 merlin1991 meant: chem|st: so in other words you took vacation when your sister is over so she can cook for you do your laundry do your cssu work whilst you play diablo3? Dec 14 14:45:15 I want such vacation too :D Dec 14 14:49:06 hm theres https://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking#Behind_the_scenes Dec 14 14:53:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking chapter Using USB networking for Maemo applications Dec 14 14:53:55 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications Dec 14 15:28:09 merlin1991: exactly! Dec 14 15:47:02 hello, I tryed despotify and while login in it seem's to freeze. I tryed it several times. Dec 14 15:48:04 I have to kill the xterm to exit the applicaton. Dec 14 15:51:27 I don't see, what can be wrong (after this description http://e90myway.blogspot.ch/2010/01/despotify-live-sort-of.html) Dec 14 19:39:02 hi Dec 14 19:39:19 do u know how to use a lumia on a gnu/linux env ? Dec 14 19:45:49 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=2576;forum=1;msg=138395 Dec 14 20:11:14 hm, what creates the ham_updates_status_menu_item// alarmd cookie? Dec 14 20:19:27 RzR somehow... I wouldn't expect much from a windows phone with regard to gnu/linux compatibility Dec 14 20:19:51 my friend who had some older lumia whatever told that it required some shitty 250MB zune package to even transfer a single mp3 file on it Dec 14 21:29:40 joga: and off course zune wont work in wine ? Dec 14 21:30:00 RzR, dunno Dec 14 21:30:10 http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=18455 Dec 14 21:30:18 I would assume there has to be some way without a vm and a windows license, but not sure Dec 14 21:31:07 well, wine doesn't look encouraging :) Dec 14 21:32:14 and neither is this: http://aaporantalainen.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/nokia-lumia-800-for-linux-developer/ Dec 14 21:32:45 RzR, which lumia model do you have? Dec 14 21:33:22 800 donno about the bootloader Dec 14 21:34:44 the fake n9 Dec 14 21:35:19 seems that at least 710 works with ubuntu 12.04 http://www.todoleo.com/2012/05/nokia-lumia-710-and-ubuntu-they-speak.html Dec 14 21:37:10 2.4 hw Dec 14 21:41:56 http://www.who.is.free.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=wince&#harware_nokia_lumia_800 Dec 14 21:48:26 seems I'm going to set up a server at hetzner.de and 'donate' it to maemo.org Dec 14 21:48:49 got a friend to help me with system administration Dec 14 21:49:48 nice Dec 14 21:50:52 somebody still developing MCE, see: https://github.com/nemomobile/mce/commits/master Dec 14 21:50:59 last commit from Dec 10, 2012 Dec 14 21:51:35 * ShadowJK is vaguely reminded of his past involvement in shady interwebs where everything ran on donated hw, much of it changing monthly if not daily, but stitched together with ssh tunnels and magic in such a way that such changes were invisible to users Dec 14 22:24:25 ShadowJK: what is it that reminds you of those times? Dec 14 22:24:55 Maybe a longing wishing maemo infra was built with distributability and portability in mind Dec 14 22:25:06 hah Dec 14 22:25:22 like, the builders would be a nice contained unit like that Dec 14 22:25:50 funny detail: that friend of mine suggested running tmo on a VM, on a dedicated server for 50EUR, from Hetzner Dec 14 22:26:19 My current dedi is like 38/month (excl vat) Dec 14 22:26:30 and he offered doing the backup to his own box he got there Dec 14 22:26:44 * ShadowJK wouldn't trust anyone of you to have access to it though Dec 14 22:27:07 meh Dec 14 22:27:18 (root access) Dec 14 22:28:04 that's why my friend is doing the system admin, and not any "volunteer" from here Dec 14 22:28:08 The day after I'd find my /home has vanished, someone rebooted the server 5 times from a webgui, 3 times from CLI, and submitted 7 hard-reset requests to the datacentre Dec 14 22:29:12 On day 2 there'd be a zillion apache processes and multi-gigabyte ram consuming mysql monster Dec 14 22:29:33 etc :P Dec 14 22:29:50 well, my friend wouldn't submit hardreset requests to datacenter, he does it himself, he "is the datacenter" Dec 14 22:30:29 he formerly worked for hetzner Dec 14 22:30:30 It was more of a statement against the "must reboot twice a day" belief some admins have Dec 14 22:31:02 nah, his dedicated host has a uptime of 180 days right now, he told me Dec 14 22:32:05 we agreed to phone tomorrow, without having a beer before ;-D Dec 14 22:32:21 This is the third or fourth enivax I have. My host has really good rates and reliability, but they do a "throw out all servers and move everyone to better ones" thing occasionally Dec 14 22:32:31 so expect that server to be up and running and available for messing around with, on sunday Dec 14 22:32:41 So last two machines I didn't get to reboot even once :-/ Dec 14 22:32:46 probably 2 years each? Dec 14 22:32:59 not having local users is advantage ;P Dec 14 22:33:18 kernel updates are a pain though Dec 14 22:33:23 yes Dec 14 22:33:47 otherwise my cloud-7 box would have an uptime of 3 years now Dec 14 22:33:49 I don't do it unless it's problem remotely explotable through something that's relevant on my machine Dec 14 22:35:13 we discussed a quite interesting problem: whether subdomains like wiki.maemo.org, hosted on VM, need an own IP Dec 14 22:35:29 yes Dec 14 22:35:31 But, Dec 14 22:36:01 No buts Dec 14 22:37:02 I asked if the dedicated server could do routing based on URLs, and seems it once could, but now no more thanks SSL Dec 14 22:37:15 It's possible to have them on different ports, and have a light frontend server serve iframes to infraserverblach.maemo.org:81 Dec 14 22:38:15 It requires the cooperation of the host server hosting the VM for sure, and I don't know if technology exists Dec 14 22:38:18 well, that's why I'm no sysadmin. I got no decent idea whether that works or not Dec 14 22:41:17 In the longer run, we'd want maemo hosting stuff to be as non-intrusive as possible to set up on a machine Dec 14 22:42:50 idotic spam "changelog as promised" :-S Dec 14 22:59:02 n900 connection error Dec 14 23:00:06 n900 network connection error Dec 14 23:12:16 DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for the links. I've soldered a mini-usb back to the power, though I don't understand how to get to the upstream components for data. Dec 14 23:12:34 I don't need the data connection, just the simple short to draw up to 1A from a charger. Dec 14 23:13:04 How do you remove the metal chip guards (emission guard?) Dec 14 23:13:53 when i try to connection to wifi i get network connection error Dec 15 02:08:47 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 15 02:59:58 2012