**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 16 02:59:58 2012 Dec 16 06:51:19 one thing's for sure: there is no such thing like "something for free" Dec 16 06:51:44 (([2012-12-16 03:10:56] To sync stuff, where as it can be obtained for free.)) Dec 16 06:52:16 you always pay, just currency changes Dec 16 06:53:36 the two most common currencies in age of internet are attention and data about user Dec 16 07:17:23 when a "free" service offer doesn't "pay" anymore - like syncing services maybe don't bring much new address data and also don't yield a way to gain the "customer's" attention like a webservice would - they'll eventually get discontinued Dec 16 07:20:20 mail providers like web.de never get tired to lure their customers into a contract for "pro-mail", and of course they send SPAM that passes every of their spamfilters Dec 16 07:21:36 plus they can analyze each and every transferred mail, even when they say they don't do that Dec 16 07:22:15 a sync service doesn't pay back that nicely, in that regard Dec 16 07:24:22 google documents - yeah, great for data mining. Syncing contacts and appointments? not so much, pretty meaningless data for any metrics of a big business Dec 16 07:28:43 location aware services: excellent. map&routing with AGPS (supl) pretty nice. map with onboard routing and non-A (non-supl) GPS: boring Dec 16 07:31:17 google glass: make users pay money for paying attention and paying with their data. Brilliant Dec 16 07:31:34 eh? Google Glass isn't just hardware? Dec 16 07:31:45 nah, it's a concept Dec 16 07:31:55 100% location aware services Dec 16 07:32:52 meh 1000% Dec 16 07:35:12 amazon kindle et al is another nice concept: make users pay more for getting less and losing that little that they get way sooner than they'd lose a paper book Dec 16 07:39:48 anyway get it: not a single company on this earth (except maybe Butan Gvmt) has "happy customer" as their main business goal Dec 16 07:41:02 * DocScrutinizer05 hums "Sheep" of Pink Floyd Dec 16 07:51:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqlsVZ1zxMk Dec 16 08:12:15 honestly sorry, I shouldn't paste a single soung out of a concept album. So: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RpcT06rcog Dec 16 08:12:29 s/soung/song/ Dec 16 08:12:30 DocScrutinizer05 meant: honestly sorry, I shouldn't paste a single song out of a concept album. So: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RpcT06rcog Dec 16 08:33:52 * DocScrutinizer05 figures RST38h posting that citation including Bhutan Gvmt in some random other channel ;-) Dec 16 10:44:00 another example of the fuckedupness of maemo's sudo Dec 16 10:44:21 it'll happily ask for a password when there's no tty, thus not enabling noecho Dec 16 10:45:09 DocScrutinizer05: we need a new sudo Dec 16 10:45:54 errr Dec 16 10:47:45 DocScrutinizer05: steps to reproduce: ssh n900 sudo ls Dec 16 10:52:19 mhm Dec 16 10:52:34 not that this makes any sense to me Dec 16 10:52:44 sudo ls won't work anyway Dec 16 10:53:00 and ssh access to my N900 is generally root Dec 16 10:53:10 well, your n900 is seriously weird Dec 16 10:53:55 admittedly, it's the default configuration Dec 16 10:53:59 err wait, sudo ls might work, but asks for password Dec 16 10:54:04 DocScrutinizer05: that's the point Dec 16 10:54:12 it asks for the password, and the password is not hidden as you type it Dec 16 10:54:49 locally it is Dec 16 10:54:57 via ssh prolly not Dec 16 10:55:03 yep, that's the point Dec 16 10:55:09 since it's basically not meant to get used that way Dec 16 10:55:11 try doing the same thing with a real linux system Dec 16 10:55:23 "sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified" Dec 16 10:55:39 try with ssh -t Dec 16 10:55:45 Luke-Jr: i know Dec 16 10:55:57 I know you know. Dec 16 10:56:03 i know you know i know Dec 16 10:56:08 now Dec 16 10:56:25 i didn't know you knew i knew Dec 16 11:00:30 kerio: "sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified" means you can't enter password, since askpass wouldn't work via ssh Dec 16 11:00:41 exactly, *you can't enter the password* Dec 16 11:00:48 which is the sensible behaviour Dec 16 11:01:49 we found maemo sudo doesn't support askpass (among other nice stuff that would suggest to get a newer version, to get rid of update-sudoers for example) Dec 16 11:01:57 a few months ago Dec 16 11:02:08 actiually a few years ago Dec 16 11:02:40 [2005-11-08] Sudo version 1.6.8p12 released. Dec 16 11:05:03 I still wonder how to easily fix that HAM / sudo apt-worker fsckup Dec 16 11:06:18 so that starting HAM would ask for a password, and no cheap trickery on xterm will offer a workaround via apt-worker or starting HAM-real or sending some freaky dbus message Dec 16 11:07:49 hell, even my http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_6210 had the concept of a SIM PIN and a device PIN Dec 16 11:08:47 so you could set up the phone so it allows only speeddial calls or addressbook calls, and you'd need the device PIN to change that Dec 16 11:09:06 ideal for setting up the phone for your kids Dec 16 11:09:34 N900 you can't set up for your kids Dec 16 11:09:55 unlike any other linux system Dec 16 11:10:53 at least because sudo gainroot working without password Dec 16 11:10:55 well, you can just remove the HAM entries in sudoers(.d) Dec 16 11:11:05 Pali: sudo gainroot requires RD mode by default Dec 16 11:11:11 it's that rootsh abomination that changes it to always work Dec 16 11:11:59 DocScrutinizer05: you can't set the n900 up for your kids because crypt() sucks and it's easily reversed Dec 16 11:12:26 Pali: not on my N900 Dec 16 11:12:54 DocScrutinizer05: you still made an unnatural modification to /sbin/gainroot Dec 16 11:12:56 so go to push fixed package to extras-devel! Dec 16 11:13:04 which, by the way, goes against the dpkg standards Dec 16 11:13:05 pfff Dec 16 11:13:21 in extras-devel is still bad sudo gainroot Dec 16 11:13:34 kerio: blame your doc for making unhealthy surgery to that cancer Dec 16 11:16:07 kerio: and don't get me started which standards /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo violates Dec 16 11:16:20 DocScrutinizer05, which value should bq2415x_charger.ko use as default for charge_current and termination_current? Dec 16 11:16:34 DocScrutinizer05: why? Dec 16 11:17:37 Pali: termination_current should be ~80..100mA Dec 16 11:18:15 I know that's a lot, but we need that to compensate for system current usage on top of charging current Dec 16 11:19:27 charge_current is what? max battery charging current? Dec 16 11:19:55 DocScrutinizer05, BME using 100mA for wallcharger and 150mA for usb. charge21.sh using 150mA Dec 16 11:21:01 Pali: makes sense since with USB it always eats 60mA for musb-core alone. But it also does that when on fastcharger, since PR1.2(?) kernel Dec 16 11:21:36 DocScrutinizer05, charge_current means Charge current sense voltage, register 0x04, bits 4-7 Dec 16 11:21:48 for MAX current? Dec 16 11:22:23 alias for the ConstantCurrent phase of charging? Dec 16 11:22:28 probably Dec 16 11:22:49 so it should be like 66% C, aka 800mA Dec 16 11:23:15 100% is max for some battery cells, but it wears them out rather quickly Dec 16 11:23:28 C is Capacity Dec 16 11:23:49 == 1320mAh which means 100 is 1320mA Dec 16 11:23:58 not max current limit (that is 500mA for usb and unlimited for wallcharger) Dec 16 11:24:00 DANG Dec 16 11:24:05 == 1320mAh which means 100% C is 1320mA Dec 16 11:24:41 that's USB current limit, not cell charging ConstantCurrent "limit" Dec 16 11:24:49 BME set 550-650mA for wallcharger and 950 for usb. charge21.sh set 950mA. Dec 16 11:25:21 now THAT make no sense at all Dec 16 11:26:06 maybe BME sets USB curlim to 550mA (should be 500mA) for *USB*, and 950mA for fastcharger Dec 16 11:26:54 charge21.sh is known to violate charging requirements for USB-hosts Dec 16 11:27:56 see: http://www.ti.com/product/bq24150a and look for register 0x04, bits 4-6 Dec 16 11:28:34 basically your bq2415x_charger.ko should start with USB curlim = 100mA, then switch to 950mA when fastcharger detected, and to 500mA after successful ENUM with USB-host Dec 16 11:29:14 Pali: I spent literally weeks of my life reading this datasheet Dec 16 11:29:26 that is current limit and that already doing Dec 16 11:29:34 so I'm a bit reluctant to open it again and find the relevant parts Dec 16 11:29:46 but i'm asking about charge current sense Dec 16 11:29:56 page 30 Dec 16 11:29:58 DocScrutinizer05: is the bupbat recovery 100mA for that reason? Dec 16 11:30:28 charge current sense is for ConstantCurrent phase of CCCV, and limits max current into cell for charging Dec 16 11:30:48 it mustn't be >0.7C Dec 16 11:30:51 kerio, current limit can be set to one value: 100, 500, 800, unlimited Dec 16 11:30:56 so see my comments above Dec 16 11:31:12 nope, that's USB curlim afaik Dec 16 11:31:24 kerio: yep Dec 16 11:31:42 sounds like a crappy reason :s Dec 16 11:31:57 fucking usb certification Dec 16 11:32:00 but emergency charging detects fastcharger in HW Dec 16 11:32:09 and switches to unlimited then Dec 16 11:32:25 but only for half an hour Dec 16 11:32:31 the reason why we got 1707 PHY Dec 16 11:32:54 kerio: 30min are enough to get the system into bootable state Dec 16 11:33:12 not enough to reflash Dec 16 11:33:24 that's a completely different topic Dec 16 11:34:03 it's not enough to reflash since NOLO decides it's not enough Dec 16 11:34:36 it's not enough to boot from ram either, right? Dec 16 11:34:46 and instead of doing proper charging itself, NOLO boots up a possibly borked linux to do the charging there. Now THAT is brainfuck Dec 16 11:34:47 thankfully i've got rescueOS installed on-device to charge Dec 16 11:35:09 btw, nolo has support for bq2415x Dec 16 11:35:12 it's actually enough to "boot from RAM" Dec 16 11:35:15 see console dump from nolo Dec 16 11:35:46 but nolo won't let you enter flashing mode? Dec 16 11:35:53 Pali: it has support, but doesn't dare to charge sufficiently to allow flashing Dec 16 11:36:06 kerio: exactly Dec 16 11:36:12 fun Dec 16 11:36:31 oh well, uboot to the rescue Dec 16 11:36:47 charge with emergency charging a bit, then boot from uSD or whatever into something with proper charging Dec 16 11:37:12 why not let uBoot do the charging business itself? Dec 16 11:37:30 because uboot can't do that right now Dec 16 11:37:41 porting charge21.sh to uBoot script should be simple as milk Dec 16 11:37:44 because X-Loader cannot start uboot Dec 16 11:37:48 we still need nolo Dec 16 11:37:50 what i said is actually doable at the moment Dec 16 11:38:10 porting charge21.sh to uboot is not really hard Dec 16 11:38:11 Pali: nolo will charge enough to load uboot Dec 16 11:38:22 but if you do not have uboot?? Dec 16 11:38:27 and uBoot easily can charge Dec 16 11:38:31 Pali: then you're fucked, duh Dec 16 11:38:47 s/'re fucked/use a different charger/ Dec 16 11:38:48 kerio meant: Pali: then youuse a different charger, duh Dec 16 11:38:53 dammit spaces Dec 16 11:38:57 btw, usb boot (aka cold-flashing) working also on totaly empty battery Dec 16 11:38:59 then your only chance is to 'coldflash' a patched NOLO to RAM Dec 16 11:39:32 and then NOLO show blinking USB flashing icon Dec 16 11:39:43 and no usb device is found... Dec 16 11:40:07 bbl o/ Dec 16 11:40:12 seems like NOLO tried to enable flashing but not enought power for something... (maybe it already booted cmt??) Dec 16 11:40:35 so we need uboot which can be bootable from 2nd x-loader Dec 16 11:41:31 Pali: we could just patch uboot so that it doesn't require a particular charge level to flash Dec 16 11:41:51 kerio, problem is that uboot started from x-loader not working... Dec 16 11:41:57 and I do not know why Dec 16 11:42:03 in qemu it freeze Dec 16 11:44:00 DocScrutinizer05, so which value use as default for charge current sense? valid are: 550, 650, 750, 850 or 950 mA? Dec 16 11:47:48 850 Dec 16 11:54:11 Pali: btw charge current possible settings: 550 + 400 + 200 + 100 Dec 16 11:54:15 charge current sense? Dec 16 11:54:28 afaik bme usually does 950 Dec 16 11:54:37 a tad high Dec 16 11:54:50 though it's incl system Dec 16 11:55:01 nah it's approximatelu .7C excl system Dec 16 11:55:01 so 950 might be ok Dec 16 11:55:05 [12:24:49] BME set 550-650mA for wallcharger and 950 for usb. charge21.sh set 950mA. Dec 16 11:55:21 ShadowJK: exactly what I said Dec 16 11:55:30 I've seen bme set 950 on wall Dec 16 11:55:54 ok, then I set default value to 950 too Dec 16 11:56:05 But, bme also has some logic that steps down current if it gets undervolt error from 24150 Dec 16 11:56:07 [2012-12-16 12:25:21] now THAT make no sense at all Dec 16 11:56:14 [2012-12-16 12:26:05] maybe BME sets USB curlim to 550mA (should be 500mA) for *USB*, and 950mA for fastcharger Dec 16 11:56:43 input limit can be set to 100, 500, 800 or unlimited Dec 16 11:57:21 ok, and for termination current? 100 or 150mA? Dec 16 11:57:37 with pk I'd use 50 Dec 16 11:57:45 on usb charging I'd use 150 Dec 16 11:58:00 (due to extra load from usb) Dec 16 11:59:55 Reg01-B7:6 00-USB host with 100-mA current limit, 01-USB host with 500-mA current limit, 10-USB host/charger with 800-mA current limit, 11-No input current limit (default 00) Dec 16 12:03:22 ShadowJK: that's about *defaults* Dec 16 12:03:41 so i'd go for 150 rather than 50 Dec 16 12:04:57 after all "keep backlight on while charging" isn't exactly an unusual config option Dec 16 12:05:59 s/extra load from usb/extra load by musb-core/ Dec 16 12:05:59 * kerio always locks Dec 16 12:06:00 i always have it on Dec 16 12:06:11 unless im sleeping orso Dec 16 12:06:36 n900 makes for a rather overpowered shower radio Dec 16 12:07:15 kerio: so what do we do with your staement "I alsways lock"? count you in to the crowd we don't talk about right here? Dec 16 12:07:31 :( Dec 16 12:08:10 look, Lava_Croft is already one user that actually *is* using this option, so it doesn't matter if you lock or not Dec 16 12:08:21 * kerio shakes his fist at Lava_Croft Dec 16 12:10:16 kerio: you again fell for your very usual misconception: defaults are not to meet your preferences but to be the most universal least restricting and savest choice Dec 16 12:11:01 if you don't like them you're free to change them Dec 16 12:11:34 that's why they're called defaults and not "hard coded optimum values" Dec 16 12:13:30 but the gnome devs told me that they're the same! Dec 16 12:14:45 the same what? also trolls? Dec 16 12:15:18 defaults and hard coded "optimum" values :P Dec 16 12:18:58 oooh, yes they're *absolutely* right on that... for their own s***t Dec 16 12:20:09 though, it a secret they don't usually like to reveil: they learnt that from windows Dec 16 12:22:06 like they learnt from windows to have a separate program for cat'ing files in /etc, and one for files in /home, and one for files in /var Dec 16 12:22:28 one paint program for green background pictures, one for red background Dec 16 12:23:44 one that allows to paint and save to /home/user/acmepaint.png [sic!] and one that allows to paint and then resize to US-letter format and print Dec 16 12:25:45 * DocScrutinizer05 makes a mental post-it note to check if gnomevfs been invented by Lennart Dec 16 12:26:11 still taking bets Dec 16 12:28:08 s/reveil/unveil/ Dec 16 12:40:34 LOL, actually nope, he's not even in favor for gnomevfs: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/gnomevfs-future.html Dec 16 12:44:22 >why don't we use POSIX Dec 16 12:44:26 for fuck's sake lennart Dec 16 12:45:35 >>Also, this way we can escape the "abstraction trap". Let's KDE play the abstraction game, maybe they'll grow up eventually and learn that abstracting abstracted abstraction layers is child's play.<< :-D Dec 16 12:46:39 ^^^this article is so abolutely non-poettering, and gnomevfs actuall so much *is* poettering... My world is shaking Dec 16 12:50:40 aren't you a KDE user? Dec 16 12:50:43 KIO does that too Dec 16 12:50:54 I know, and I pretty much hate it Dec 16 13:06:45 I think the "ideal" would be to adjust termination current depending on the situation Dec 16 13:07:55 Kdevfs and gnomevfs suck, plan9 is the way Dec 16 13:07:58 ;) Dec 16 13:08:21 we need a h-d port for plan 9 Dec 16 13:16:06 DocScrutinizer05, do you know what happen with maemo.org after Dec 31? Dec 16 13:16:13 will be maemo.org migrated? Dec 16 13:16:27 yes Dec 16 13:16:34 100% ? Dec 16 13:16:58 if Nokia/Nemein finally follows up on handing-over task Dec 16 13:17:40 who will do migration? will you have admin rights for maemo.org? or will nokia/nemein copy data to new servers? Dec 16 13:18:41 and what will be migrated? full *.maemo.org domain with subdomains? Dec 16 13:19:01 ShadowJK: (adjusting termination current) then we don't need to use termination current at all, and revert to reading true battery current from bq27200 and stop charging when it trips arbitrary levels set on the charger.ko sysfs for it Dec 16 13:19:02 or should be backup other something?? Dec 16 13:20:09 Pali: the plan is that Nokia transfers complete *.maemo.org admin-c plus content resp root access to board Dec 16 13:21:02 so you have 3/4 days for it... Dec 16 13:22:11 btw, what happened with maemo OBS? Dec 16 13:22:46 alas right now it seems (I say 'it seems' since I got all that second hand from board members) that Nokia decided to instruct Nemein to move the servers to some new property hardware that Nemein is about to buy and colocate-host $anywhere, and Nemein shall do that migration to that new hw, and eventually hand board the access credentials Dec 16 13:24:36 and no answer from anybody of Nokia7Nemein regarding what's state of that process, not to think about discussing it to find better more affordable more 'sane' alternatives Dec 16 13:25:23 seems Nokia is willing to keep 'their' servers running for another 1 or 2 months Dec 16 13:25:49 which doesn't exactly apply for tmo, where Nokia stops funding on 2013-01-01 Dec 16 13:27:26 so what will happen with TMO? Dec 16 13:28:00 basically Nokia does what they always did: shut up and don't say a word, meh a syllable, until eventually they 'code-drop' throw the whole 'blob' over the wall, "take it or leave it" Dec 16 13:29:55 for tmo there's a hefty discussion whether to pay Reggie another month of server hosting, so we could establish something decent well thought, or move it to a vserver for 12EUR per month, or move it to a decent dedicated server that would suffice to host *.maemo.orh as well eventually Dec 16 13:32:37 the estimations for the task of setting up a new host with vBulletin and move tmo over to there already vary between "meh, 2 hours at most" and "don't hope for any non-practicing casual admin doing that during one full weekend, including setup of proper mailing and all" Dec 16 13:33:08 those who think the task can be done in 2 hours favour the 12EUR interim server approach Dec 16 13:34:54 I think we should pay Reggie another month and stop acting in panic mode and rather accept we don't get stuff accomplished til new year, and already start on the more "long-term" (as in: 6 weeks isntead <2 weeks) migration job Dec 16 13:35:35 ok Dec 16 13:35:54 new kernel-power build is here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1305042#post1305042 Dec 16 13:36:10 kerio ^^^ Dec 16 13:36:32 it should be final v52 Dec 16 14:01:29 Pali: have you "fixed" profiled yet, btw? Dec 16 14:01:36 kerio, in git Dec 16 14:05:55 Pali: my plans were to get a dedicated server today and use that to "donate" it to maemo.org. But right now I'm busy to check if somebody rooted my known cloud7 box a few days back Dec 16 14:07:11 DocScrutinizer05: that would be bad! Dec 16 14:19:37 DocScrutinizer05: when you say move to a single server, do you mean a single dedicated server hosting our VMs, or actually putting every service on the same box? Dec 16 14:19:57 because i wouldn't want the autobuilder together with the other things Dec 16 14:20:31 kerio: could you deliver better arguments that "I wouldn't want"? Dec 16 14:21:23 (not saying that I'm not a friend of VM) Dec 16 14:21:25 compiling is an heavy task, and shoving it in a limited VM is easier than setting up the proper ulimits for every build Dec 16 14:21:39 err Dec 16 14:21:57 building stuff could slow down everything else Dec 16 14:22:15 renice 10 autobuilder Dec 16 14:23:00 doesn't really stop it from consuming ungodly amounts of ram Dec 16 14:23:21 I'd worry more about the wiki and forums, those things tend to be heavy Dec 16 14:24:14 kerio: so what's the benefit regarding RAM usage then, when putting it into a VM? Dec 16 14:24:44 DocScrutinizer05: it's much easier to cap it Dec 16 14:24:48 in fact, you *have* to cap it Dec 16 14:24:56 you can't 'cap' RAM usage Dec 16 14:25:09 the VM has a limited amount of RAM Dec 16 14:25:19 unless you accept sth like OOM killing your process Dec 16 14:26:04 right, it has a limited amount of simulated RAM, and a simulated swap for anything that needs more than that Dec 16 14:26:56 just uninstall the c++ compiler, memory use goes down with plain C ;) Dec 16 14:27:06 ShadowJK: if only Dec 16 14:27:31 and in the end everything will eventually end in real swap, with real IO on a real disk, no matter how many virtualization levels in between Dec 16 14:28:16 or rather, a real 'file' Dec 16 14:28:23 DocScrutinizer05, do we know where is problem in wiki? Dec 16 14:28:30 kinda Dec 16 14:28:59 database corrupted or uncompatible script in mediawiki? Dec 16 14:29:01 they did an update to the wiki software, and their 'proprietary' mudules are incompatible to that new version Dec 16 14:29:27 probably single signon plugin Dec 16 14:29:39 so after maemo.org will be transferred, can we modify & fix that module? Dec 16 14:30:04 let's hope we can, since I'm rather sure they won't fix it before Dec 16 14:31:26 X-Fade doesn't answer to any requests for sharing sourcecode of those plugins/modules, nor for ETA of fix or status of work on a fix, nor anything else Dec 16 14:32:25 Pali: hmm, fiasco-update-image-ask didn't identify the currently-flashed uboot+kp Dec 16 14:32:42 and what it shown? Dec 16 14:32:42 kerio: basically I think your approach is similar to mine, just liked to play avocado salsa diaboli Dec 16 14:32:57 hm, and what is here? https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=maemo2midgard Dec 16 14:34:25 might be parts of the sourcecode we need to fix, though I'm not sure since we have no access to the servers to get decent diagnostic output of what's going haywire Dec 16 14:34:56 meh, it's not going to be *that* hard to fix, mediawiki is opensource Dec 16 14:34:57 * kerio understates Dec 16 14:35:53 Pali: flashed kp52-latest, it booted Dec 16 14:36:03 I'd like to use some wiki which has stored data in git :-) Dec 16 14:38:21 Pali: hostdevice2 is new in the latest KP, right? Dec 16 14:38:29 yes Dec 16 14:38:50 it is hint for last usbmode Dec 16 14:39:19 neat Dec 16 14:40:29 Pali: it still tries low before going to high :( Dec 16 14:40:39 yes, it must Dec 16 14:42:44 DocScrutinizer05, there is something too: http://trac.midgard-project.org/browser/branches/ragnaroek/midcom/org.maemo.packages Dec 16 14:52:55 Pali: fine, alas I have not the competence nor the time to check what it is and whether it's helping our issue. Dec 16 14:54:46 Pali: suggestion: go to wiki, try to edit a page, see what "diagnostic" crap output you get, and maybe you can conclude from that which sourcecode we actually have to fix Dec 16 14:55:05 already tried Dec 16 14:55:18 Pali: ...since that's exactly as much info as I got Dec 16 14:55:31 output is useless: http://pastebin.com/HB4JPzRt Dec 16 14:55:39 I know Dec 16 14:55:46 it run some hook Dec 16 14:56:09 and backtrace from hook is missing Dec 16 15:07:32 anybody running a centOS here? Dec 16 15:07:52 Our office server does... Dec 16 15:07:58 * Aoyagi isn't in the office Dec 16 15:08:14 Or have remote access. Dec 16 15:09:08 i used to have an EC2 box, those run centOS Dec 16 15:10:43 would you happen to know if it's normal for centOS to have process 1 .. 5, then pid 10 kthread, 14 kblockd/0, 15 kacpid, the huge gap until next PID is 96 cqueue/0 ? Dec 16 15:11:03 hm, never noticed that Dec 16 15:11:17 but it's not something that i would've necessarily paid attention to Dec 16 15:11:30 same here Dec 16 15:12:04 until I got concerned about mysql, php, python, httpd whatnot else segfaulting like mad a few days ago Dec 16 15:12:30 which finally resulted in whole machine going offline for 15 min Dec 16 15:12:36 incl znc Dec 16 15:12:46 and munin Dec 16 15:13:25 if you find yourself considering the possibility that someone untrusted got root, you probably need to reinstall it Dec 16 15:13:45 I'd hardly accomplish that Dec 16 15:13:54 it's a vserver Dec 16 15:28:15 DocScrutinizer: still the weird PID distribution? Dec 16 15:28:26 yep Dec 16 15:28:32 identical Dec 16 15:33:18 I'm running a CentOS. Dec 16 15:35:40 DocScrutinizer05: what version of centos? Dec 16 15:37:24 I naver paid attention. I see no such hole and ktrheaded has PID 2 Dec 16 15:39:02 luf: top output: Dec 16 15:39:04 167 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.01 kswapd0 Dec 16 15:39:23 luf: how to check versionß Dec 16 15:40:11 cat /proc/redhat-release Dec 16 15:40:45 cat: /proc/redhat-release: No such file or directory Dec 16 15:41:30 DocScrutinizer05: I have running several active processes ... Dec 16 15:42:22 Sorry /etc/ of course :D Dec 16 15:42:34 cat /etc/redhat-release Dec 16 15:42:53 CentOS release 5.8 (Final) Dec 16 15:43:03 Hmm I have 6.3 ... Dec 16 16:20:14 freemangordon, fixed rawcam on it's way to devel, thanks a lot. Dec 16 16:20:38 qwazix: great Dec 16 16:20:42 what was the problem Dec 16 16:21:21 stupidness :) I forgot to run setOverlay to give my derived QApplication access to the overlay widget Dec 16 16:21:37 so I was calling the destructor on an empty pointer Dec 16 16:21:42 ooh Dec 16 16:22:31 thus the segfault... Dec 16 16:22:42 yeah, I see Dec 16 16:23:34 now time to investigate why it doesn't launch on harmattan pr1.2 (and only that) Dec 16 16:23:41 does that fiz camera-ui? Dec 16 16:23:47 *fix Dec 16 16:23:53 yes Dec 16 16:24:51 great Dec 16 16:24:53 retroactively. I tried first with the broken rawcam, camera-ui crashed, fixed it, closed it normally and camera-ui words Dec 16 16:24:59 s/words/works Dec 16 16:52:29 freemangordon: ping Dec 16 16:52:40 vi_: pong Dec 16 16:53:12 have you RE tklock? Dec 16 16:53:23 vi_: yes Dec 16 16:53:36 powerkeymenu too Dec 16 16:53:39 you are incredible. Dec 16 16:53:46 I know :P Dec 16 16:53:53 heh. Dec 16 16:54:08 though tklock has a small glitch, but I don;t have time to fix it Dec 16 16:54:18 will do it ofc Dec 16 16:54:32 well, it wasn't really a RE, it was a complete rewrite Dec 16 16:54:41 which is even better :D Dec 16 16:54:42 kerio: tklock was RE Dec 16 16:54:54 powerkeymenu is a rewrite, correct Dec 16 16:55:32 does that mean it is now theoretically possible to remove the slide to unlock screen and just have double power button press to unlock? Dec 16 16:55:45 kerio: BTW apt-get install mp-fremante-generic-pr gave "missing packages" Dec 16 16:55:57 vi_: in theory - yes Dec 16 16:57:46 freemangordon: after an apt-get update? Dec 16 16:58:18 kerio: after apt-get update/upgrade, reboot, apt-get install mp-fremante-generic-pr Dec 16 16:58:32 only stock repos enabled Dec 16 16:58:54 which packages are missing? Dec 16 16:59:19 however, i'll have the device in my hands in an hour or so, it was a lady on the other side of the skype chat, so I am not aware of the details :D Dec 16 16:59:55 I am just wondering if repos are FUBAR Dec 16 17:00:32 vi_: if you find some GTK guy, something similar to harm lock screen can be implemented Dec 16 17:00:48 vi_: I am just not that good (if at all) with GTK Dec 16 17:01:53 ar something like - if there is a missed even(call, mail, sms, etc) to open the relevant application by swiping the icon, etc Dec 16 17:02:13 what lady? Dec 16 17:02:24 a friend of mine Dec 16 17:03:07 she has n900. and she convinced her father and several of his coleagues to by n900 :D:D:D Dec 16 17:03:20 that's definetely a mistake :s Dec 16 17:03:42 kerio: +1 Dec 16 17:03:43 :P Dec 16 17:03:54 oh dear. Dec 16 17:03:56 three layers of indirection for tech support? Dec 16 17:03:59 kerio: why? new deviceces with 2 years of warranty from the MNO, for the price of ~100 euros each Dec 16 17:04:11 I do not wish n900 on anyone. Dec 16 17:04:19 i'd said thats a deal Dec 16 17:04:20 freemangordon: :O Dec 16 17:04:24 i want some of those Dec 16 17:04:27 freemangordon: what! Dec 16 17:04:34 unfortunately no way Dec 16 17:04:41 n900, 100 euro, brand new??? Dec 16 17:04:44 ъеп Dec 16 17:04:46 Where? Dec 16 17:04:48 yep Dec 16 17:04:59 but they have some corporate discount Dec 16 17:05:18 Aoyagi: Bulgaria Dec 16 17:05:23 Oh... Dec 16 17:07:57 I do not wish n900 on anyone. Dec 16 17:07:59 why? Dec 16 17:08:06 I really don;t get it Dec 16 17:08:38 besides me none of those I know that own n900 around me is a developer Dec 16 17:08:56 all of them are extremely happy with their device Dec 16 17:08:59 *devices Dec 16 17:09:00 n900 is the GREATEST device EVER made. Dec 16 17:09:34 however to exploit its real potential you have to know a thing or 2 about computers. Dec 16 17:09:55 I know, thats why I asked why you wouldn't recommend it. Though TBH I didn't recommend it too Dec 16 17:10:13 for the exactly same reason Dec 16 17:10:42 but for 100 euros... really , thats a deal Dec 16 17:11:05 I will take 3 please. are they still available? Dec 16 17:11:50 vi_: no, it is some corporate discount, with such a terms, that even the lady was unable to get a second device Dec 16 17:12:09 bought by her father Dec 16 17:12:58 dang! Dec 16 17:13:40 yeah. Dec 16 17:14:51 tbh i'm not that interested in the discount, rather in the source for brand new N900 Dec 16 17:15:24 DocScrutinizer05: MNO is vivacom, but one needs to sign a contract Dec 16 17:15:34 eeeek Dec 16 17:16:37 well, as long as that contract doesn't cost me too much, I happily pay the 24 or whatever months of €€/month and get a N900 with warranty and all Dec 16 17:16:38 yeah, iirc 1 year contract, 5 euros or something per month. and you get brand new n900 for ~230 euros Dec 16 17:17:01 ~230 + (12 * 5) Dec 16 17:17:02 290 Dec 16 17:17:06 so that's 290€ for a new n900 huh Dec 16 17:17:07 deal! Dec 16 17:17:43 how many contracts may a single human sign with them? Dec 16 17:18:18 freemangordon: are you sure it's a nokia n900 and not a nokia n9-00? Dec 16 17:18:45 yeah, sounds strange Dec 16 17:18:54 the vivacom website doesn't list the n900 Dec 16 17:21:52 kerio: yeah, i know. but they sell them in stores Dec 16 17:22:05 :-o Dec 16 17:22:13 don;t ask me why Dec 16 17:22:22 could you get me two? Dec 16 17:22:25 kerio: yes, I am sure, it is n900 Dec 16 17:22:44 DocScrutinizer05: i'll think about Dec 16 17:22:58 freemangordon: I mean, you'll keep the SIM and the 60EUR Dec 16 17:23:49 sell them, use them, do whatever you like with them Dec 16 17:23:50 DocScrutinizer05: i'll try to find time in the incomming week to go to some store and will ask for the terms Dec 16 17:23:59 :-D Dec 16 17:24:02 thanks a lot Dec 16 17:24:09 but don;t promise anything, I am pretty busy these days Dec 16 17:24:30 during the working hours that is Dec 16 17:24:36 only brand new with original packaging, please Dec 16 17:25:08 of course, i bouth my second one from them. tou it was more expensive when i bought it Dec 16 17:25:14 *though Dec 16 17:28:46 would make for nice x-mas gift packages, and that's probably also best way to package and send them from your place to Germany Dec 16 17:37:11 to avoid customs, huh? crafty Dec 16 17:37:27 GeneralAntilles: who's admin of maemo.org infra, like repositories etc, wiki, whatnot else Dec 16 17:37:57 kerio: err, no ;-) just because it's x-mas and they are a gift for me Dec 16 17:38:22 nobody ever defined who may *not* pay for a gift Dec 16 17:38:40 I'm thinking, if I find some time, to make a scriptable camera app. What's the best approach if I don't want to invent my own scripting language? Dec 16 17:39:09 bash Dec 16 17:39:15 or python Dec 16 17:39:24 and use gstreamer Dec 16 17:39:48 SpeedEvil already did such stuff iirc Dec 16 17:40:36 iirc he was first to come up with nightmode video Dec 16 17:40:51 No, I want to use fcam, to make something that allows precise control of the timings, like for example "open shutter, wait 2ms fire flash in 0,5intensity, wait 2ms fire flash again, wait 5ms, fire flash full intensity, close shutter. Repeat everything five times Dec 16 17:41:22 well, if it has to become a decent app, you probably want python Dec 16 17:41:51 hmm... Dec 16 17:42:06 seems extremely simple to add a python API to any arbitrary app Dec 16 17:42:32 sounds interesting, I'll check it out Dec 16 17:42:56 check that python ISDN package that existed some 6 or 8 years ago Dec 16 17:43:24 I was thinking at first to implement it by myself with something stupid, like json, but it won't allow for advanced things Dec 16 17:43:31 but this sounds really cool Dec 16 17:44:42 thanks! Dec 16 17:50:34 DocScrutinizer05, Nemein was Dec 16 17:50:53 GeneralAntilles: :nod: Dec 16 18:42:37 Hm, one of my HDDs has suddenly gotten on about a tenth of its speed...I sense devastating data loss soon. Dec 16 18:49:52 Aoyagi: what does SMART say? Dec 16 18:51:53 why are we talking about nemein like it's a person? Dec 16 18:53:04 It's not enabled :/ Dec 16 18:54:42 fun Dec 16 18:54:44 buy a ssd Dec 16 18:57:01 Yeah, THAT's more reliable :D Dec 16 18:57:14 yes Dec 16 18:57:17 they are Dec 16 18:59:48 Oh really. So all the tests I've seen must have been lying then. Dec 16 19:04:16 i suppose so Dec 16 19:35:14 * ShadowJK has two hd's that are totally buggered without smart noticing anything Dec 16 19:44:18 DocScrutinizer05, You may recall I claimed about a week ago that my Mobile Hotspot worked with the default Nokia kernel. I was wrong, you were right - the power kernel is needed. Dec 16 19:44:54 heh Dec 16 19:45:44 Ken-Young: the stock kernel has no iptables Dec 16 20:09:00 DocScrutinizer05: ping Dec 16 20:19:17 DocScrutinizer05: (for later) http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council seems a little downlevel Dec 16 20:20:59 Pali: are packages that install stuff in /etc/bootmenu.d for uboot supposed to call u-boot-update-bootmenu? are they supposed to just remind the user to do that? Dec 16 20:22:08 kerio, packages should run u-boot-update-bootmenu in postinst script Dec 16 20:22:25 what if the user doesn't want that, for some weird reason? Dec 16 20:22:53 see kernel-power-bootimg.postinst Dec 16 20:23:15 if test -x /usr/bin/u-boot-update-bootmenu; then ...; fi Dec 16 20:23:30 no, i mean, what if the user doesn't want me to update the bootmenu? Dec 16 20:24:12 after changing /etc/bootmenu.d you must re-run and regenerate bootmenu Dec 16 20:24:30 i know that Dec 16 20:24:37 so? Dec 16 20:24:38 but what if the user wants to do that manually? Dec 16 20:24:59 it is not for manual use :-) Dec 16 20:25:05 k Dec 16 20:25:05 packages should do it automatically Dec 16 20:25:17 i just wanted to know if it was an official thing Dec 16 20:25:20 manual use is needed only if you manual edit files in /etc/bootmenu.d Dec 16 20:29:42 Pali: is it ok to depend on u-boot-tools for a -bootimg thing? Dec 16 20:30:23 kerio, if your image is "only for uboot" and not working without uboot then yes Dec 16 20:30:33 but if your image should work without uboot, then do not depend Dec 16 20:30:44 well, i don't know if you can boot rescueOS with multiboot Dec 16 20:30:49 probably not Dec 16 20:30:54 kernel-power-bootimg not depending on u-boot Dec 16 20:31:12 because kernel-power-bootimg can be used by other package at compile time Dec 16 20:31:27 (e.g package which use zImage from kernel-power) Dec 16 20:31:46 and I do not know if u-boot-tools depends on u-boot-flasher Dec 16 20:31:49 i see Dec 16 20:31:51 propably maybe not Dec 16 20:31:56 no, u-boot-tools doesn't depend on the flasher Dec 16 20:32:01 better depends on u-boot-flasher Dec 16 20:32:07 D: Dec 16 20:32:11 i don't have u-boot-flasher installed Dec 16 20:32:12 i think Dec 16 20:32:28 good point Dec 16 20:32:39 you can install u-boot by flasher-3.5 Dec 16 20:32:43 indeed Dec 16 20:32:50 so better depends on u-boot-tools Dec 16 20:33:07 this is purely academical, mind you Dec 16 20:33:26 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/u-boot-tools/2012.10-rc3-1/ Dec 16 20:33:26 Jaffa: sorry, what's "downlevel"? Actually it's not the only wiki page that urgently needs editing, alas wiki doesn't allow editing since months now Dec 16 20:33:30 i don't want to figure out the correct copyright notices for rescueos Dec 16 20:33:47 kerio, u-boot-flasher depends on u-boot-tools Dec 16 20:34:01 yeah but i have the tools installed and not the flasher Dec 16 20:34:12 so you can create your own uboot image (e.g. with kernel-power) which will depend on u-boot-tools Dec 16 20:34:23 DocScrutinizer05: Oh, wiki's locked? Dec 16 20:34:25 hm, that would be kinda neat Dec 16 20:34:32 tools can be installed without flasher Dec 16 20:34:32 DocScrutinizer05: I meant referring to the "previous version" Dec 16 20:34:34 Jaffa: wiki is fubar Dec 16 20:34:38 DocScrutinizer05: Oh :-( Dec 16 20:34:52 Pali: with fiasco-image-update-ask i just don't flash KP Dec 16 20:34:56 * Jaffa 's been trying to catch up for this week's MWKN Dec 16 20:35:07 Pali: i have kernel-power-flasher installed Dec 16 20:36:07 Jaffa: on the bright side we don't have to care about wiki spam Dec 16 20:36:12 ;-P Dec 16 20:36:12 DocScrutinizer05: :) Dec 16 20:37:08 Jaffa: obviously Nokia or Nemein feels like "who cares what they think about us, leaving a mess for them" Dec 16 20:37:25 DocScrutinizer05: "database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software" when logging in, for example? Dec 16 20:37:34 yep Dec 16 20:37:44 DocScrutinizer05: Nokia I can understand, but I would've thought Nemein was interested in looking for new business Dec 16 20:37:55 DocScrutinizer05: Have you tried contacting bergie directly? Dec 16 20:38:13 nope, I don't even know who's that Dec 16 20:38:59 Henri Bergius. bergie on IRC (in #jollamobile atm). Boss of Nemein/main representative for Council (X-Fade works/ed for him) Dec 16 20:39:15 uhuh Dec 16 20:39:31 well, I never heard about anything like that Dec 16 20:39:46 Ah. Dec 16 20:40:10 seems like previous council(s) didn't bother too much with documenting stuff like that Dec 16 20:40:43 or somebody missed to point us (me?) to those documents Dec 16 20:41:34 honestly wiki fsckup isn't even a lame joke anymore, it's a plain offense Dec 16 20:41:39 Not sure about any docs (they'd be in the wiki :-/) but presumably been lost in Chinese whispers of repeated handovers. Including the recent Councils of Doom. Dec 16 20:42:20 Although, really, it should've been part of the Nokia handover, I guess. Dec 16 20:42:38 what's a Nokia handover? Dec 16 20:43:05 Fair point. Dec 16 20:43:32 Do you want me to send bergie an email to link you two up? Dec 16 20:43:46 sure! much appreciated Dec 16 20:44:39 DocScrutinizer05: /query bergie fix the wiki you asshole Dec 16 20:45:08 Something like "The Council, and the Hildon Foundation, want to continue the maemo.org infrastructure currently hosted by Nemein. Possibly, as far as I can tell, including paying Nemein to continue it; or handover if not (at least so the problems with wiki.maemo.org can be fixed)!" Dec 16 20:45:20 kerio: now i know why you refused to run for council Dec 16 20:45:22 kerio: Easier to catch honey with bees. (Or something) Dec 16 20:45:38 DocScrutinizer05: i did that for the good of the community Dec 16 20:45:57 Jaffa: only in soviet russia Dec 16 20:46:05 :) Dec 16 21:01:45 Right. Time to make a cup of tea and watch some old TV on Netflix Dec 16 21:01:56 yummy, kirin ichiban beer. Reminds me on my times at Taipei Dec 16 21:09:59 I havent quite found another beer like that Dec 16 21:10:13 and state alcohol monopoly stopped selling kirin ichiban Dec 16 21:15:45 DocScrutinizer05, Pali, about gpg key expires... see: http://pastebin.com/nPEKx5nH Dec 16 21:16:38 rlinfati, only "Nokia repository signing key 4v1" is used Dec 16 21:18:42 also 2E6D6F9A Dec 16 21:58:09 what is maemo security ? Dec 16 22:00:11 an oxymoron Dec 16 22:06:15 DocScrutinizer05: http://maemo.org/community/security/ Dec 16 22:08:48 Pali: Why did you post a link to the old powertop? what is wrong with the version in the repo? Dec 16 22:09:11 vi_, I found original official DEB package Dec 16 22:09:49 Pali: did you ever get the source for meego powertop? Dec 16 22:10:02 no :-( Dec 16 22:13:29 * fil puzzled -- I can find references to people wanting to rebuild newer rtmpdump from 2010 onwards, and yet the version available from the repos is still the 1.9-1 version from Jan 2010 Dec 16 22:14:21 is it setting the SDK up that's impossible, or building the package, or uploading it, or getting it through some sort of QA? Or has anyone that's able moved on to pastures new already? Dec 16 22:25:46 fil: building a binary is easy Dec 16 22:26:06 maintaining a package in a repo is kinda boring Dec 16 22:26:45 fil: also, i'd like to watch twitch.tv streams on my n900, just for the novelty Dec 16 22:26:48 so please do Dec 16 22:35:29 kerio: well, as a Debian Developer, I'm aware of what's needed to maintain a package, but the fact that nobody seems to have tried in this case makes me wonder how much extra friction there is when comparing maemo with debian Dec 16 22:37:24 extras-devel has no QA Dec 16 22:37:33 * ShadowJK would guess the original maintainer left Dec 16 22:37:40 anyway, my wife tells me it's bed-time, so I'll say nn, and read the backlog tomorrow for people trying to inspire me to put the effort in ;-) Dec 17 02:01:29 is there any way to add a contact ( name and phone number) from the command line? Dec 17 02:07:04 unclouded, I believe so. It;s going to be a dbus command though Dec 17 02:08:24 sounds good. is there an example somewhere? I couldn't find one on the wiki Dec 17 02:09:10 There's something in the wiki about 'phone control' Dec 17 02:09:11 check that out Dec 17 02:12:08 got it. thank you. http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control Dec 17 02:15:24 there's an awful lot of good stuff on that page but nothing about adding contacts unfortunately Dec 17 02:15:57 the store seems to be /home/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db. what format is that? Dec 17 02:17:08 No clue Dec 17 02:17:16 Open it in a hex editor and see Dec 17 02:18:01 seems to have some binary junk and then VCARD sections Dec 17 02:18:50 "file" says: Berkeley DB (Hash, version 8, native byte-order) Dec 17 02:51:13 ruby-bdb ( on a desktop) is helping. it seems to be a hash from digits ( position within the phone book) to "BEGIN:VCARD..." **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 17 02:59:58 2012