**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 20 03:00:00 2012
Dec 20 04:04:03 <merlin1991> unclouded: it's in the source package
Dec 20 04:04:31 <unclouded> really?  I had a look there.  I'll look again
Dec 20 04:05:06 <merlin1991> unclouded: it's built on autobuilder it has to be ;)
Dec 20 04:05:40 <unclouded> would you expect it to be inside the kernel-bfs-bootimg package?
Dec 20 04:05:48 <merlin1991> nope
Dec 20 04:06:21 <merlin1991> but I'd expect it in here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/k/kernel-power/kernel-power_2.6.28-10power51r1.diff.gz
Dec 20 04:07:42 <unclouded> is it inside the .fiasco image in that package?
Dec 20 04:08:09 <merlin1991> why do you search for the config inside the binary packages?
Dec 20 04:08:14 <merlin1991> grab the source
Dec 20 04:09:21 <unclouded> ah!  sorry, didn't realise
Dec 20 04:10:56 <merlin1991> you'll need the diff from above plus this http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/k/kernel-power/kernel-power_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz
Dec 20 04:11:04 <merlin1991> or you just use apt-get source :)
Dec 20 04:11:32 <unclouded> I think I'll use "apt-get source" so I don't mess anything else up.  thank you!
Dec 20 07:48:48 <kerio> unclouded: KP52 is about to be released though
Dec 20 07:49:02 <kerio> unclouded: check the kernel-power thread on TMO
Dec 20 07:55:12 <unclouded> thx kerio.  i'm just re-learning how to build a kernel though.  can it be done with a cross-compiler on a x86 host?
Dec 20 07:55:36 <kerio> unclouded: install scratchbox
Dec 20 07:55:51 <freemangordon> unclouded: you should either use scratchbox or madde afaik
Dec 20 07:56:27 <unclouded> http://scratchbox.org/ seems down.  is that just for me?
Dec 20 07:56:34 <freemangordon> unclouded: ni :(
Dec 20 07:56:37 <freemangordon> *no
Dec 20 07:56:54 <freemangordon> unclouded: why you want to build the kernel?
Dec 20 07:57:59 <unclouded> I'd like to have a go at booting Debian on mmc1p1 but I can't see what's going wrong.  I wanted to see if the fb could be used as the console
Dec 20 07:58:53 <unclouded> maybe I just need parameters to kernel-power in which case I'll feel silly
Dec 20 07:59:21 <freemangordon> if you want to boot another os, then what you need is u-boot
Dec 20 07:59:49 <unclouded> got that.  u-boot-flasher from devel-extras.  uboot-pr13 didn't cut it
Dec 20 07:59:52 <freemangordon> also, if you want fb console, just insmod the module in init scripts
Dec 20 08:00:22 <unclouded> oh.  ok, now I feel silly.  so I don't need to build a kernel to find out what's going wrong
Dec 20 08:01:28 <freemangordon> unclouded: if you boot debian's kernel by using u-boot, KP won;t be oaded. Or I am missing something
Dec 20 08:01:36 <freemangordon> *loaded
Dec 20 08:02:25 <unclouded> I didn't think there was a Debian kernel ( built for N900) so I was going to try using KP to boot Debian
Dec 20 08:04:13 <unclouded> which modules will I need?  fbcon obviously.  also omaplfb?  any others?
Dec 20 08:04:17 <freemangordon> unclouded: won;t work, KP is 2.6.28, glibc in debian won;t like it AFAIK
Dec 20 08:04:56 <freemangordon> what debian BTW?
Dec 20 08:05:12 <unclouded> rly?  even though it works to chroot to /media/mmc1?  squeeze armel
Dec 20 08:05:40 <freemangordon> aah, that one might work
Dec 20 08:06:05 <freemangordon> well, if you modprobe fbcon, it should load all that is needed AIUI
Dec 20 08:06:12 <unclouded> I should learn how to get fbcon anyway
Dec 20 08:07:51 <freemangordon> unclouded: http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?s=332825539b9b12445451d06cabe14ace&p=1303015&postcount=11
Dec 20 08:08:25 <unclouded> sweet, cheers
Dec 20 08:08:55 <freemangordon> have in mind that is for maemo, i don;t know where you should do modprobe fbcon in debian
Dec 20 08:09:10 <freemangordon> but the module is there (in KP I mean)
Dec 20 08:12:57 <unclouded> I guess I'll need it in the bootmenu script?
Dec 20 08:13:28 <freemangordon> unclouded: don't think so
Dec 20 08:13:48 <freemangordon> aah, wait
Dec 20 08:13:58 <freemangordon> bootmenu script? 
Dec 20 08:14:25 <unclouded> u-boot provides a menu.  I don't mean the bootmenu package, which I don't have installed
Dec 20 08:15:39 <freemangordon> unclouded: u-boot scripts won't do the job afaik. 
Dec 20 08:16:11 <unclouded> Maemo is in NAND, with u-boot-flasher from devel-extras ( stock kernel, not power).  I can now boot Maemo with either stock, power or bfs from the menu but I'd like to try booting the Debian on mmc1
Dec 20 08:16:26 <unclouded> really?  damn
Dec 20 08:16:45 <freemangordon> unclouded: but you'd better ask Pali. when he is online
Dec 20 09:26:19 <Pali> when will be migration of maemo.org done? when will be maemo again in read-write mode?
Dec 20 09:49:22 <kerio> unclouded: bfs is awful
Dec 20 09:49:34 <kerio> unclouded: how did you install debian?
Dec 20 09:49:53 <unclouded> I think it was debootstrap -foreign from my laptop
Dec 20 09:50:08 <unclouded> thanks for the bfs tip.  I should stick to power then?
Dec 20 09:50:12 <kerio> yep
Dec 20 09:50:21 <kerio> Pali: will KP52 work with debian?
Dec 20 09:50:40 <kerio> unclouded: my guess is that you should put the modules in your debian root's /lib/modules
Dec 20 09:50:45 <unclouded> I am making some progress
Dec 20 09:50:51 <Pali> I do not know
Dec 20 09:50:53 <Pali> why not?
Dec 20 09:51:10 <kerio> and then just tell uboot to boot with the root you want
Dec 20 09:51:34 <unclouded> with Pail's zImage-2.6.28-omap1-fb I can now see that the kernel is waiting for the root device
Dec 20 09:52:16 <unclouded> I was trying to boot without an initrd and I guess mmc_block isn't compiled in, so I'm trying to make a squeeze initrd with 2.6.28-omap1 atm
Dec 20 09:52:53 <kerio> oh right, those aren't compiled in, no
Dec 20 09:53:43 <unclouded> so I suppose my options are either compile a kernel with mmc_block or try for an initrd, which would be less effort I hope
Dec 20 09:53:55 <kerio> unclouded: apparently you MUST install and run watchdog on your debian install
Dec 20 09:54:12 <kerio> ~2119
Dec 20 09:54:12 <infobot> The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
Dec 20 09:54:23 <unclouded> yes, I read that here: https://elektranox.org/n900/kernel/uboot.html
Dec 20 09:54:36 <unclouded> hard powerdown after 60 seconds otherwise
Dec 20 09:54:46 <unclouded> lol
Dec 20 09:55:02 <kerio> Pali: does the current uboot support extfs?
Dec 20 09:55:12 <DocScrutinizer06> grrrr electranox
Dec 20 09:55:31 <unclouded> seems so.  it's loading the uImage from ext2 part on the SD card
Dec 20 09:55:53 <unclouded> DocScrutinizer06, why "grrrr"?  I don't know the history
Dec 20 09:56:32 <DocScrutinizer06> meh, this site refused to correct (C) of the originial charging script
Dec 20 09:56:53 <DocScrutinizer06> which evidently been (C) by me
Dec 20 09:57:16 <DocScrutinizer06> err boost sctipt
Dec 20 10:03:21 <DocScrutinizer06> nope, charging
Dec 20 10:03:47 <DocScrutinizer06> doesn't matter, nice site lots of info
Dec 20 10:05:54 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq
Dec 20 11:56:25 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: hey, you adopted 2119? :-D
Dec 20 11:56:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo 2119
Dec 20 11:56:43 <infobot> 2119 -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Mon Aug  9 18:05:45 2010 (863 days); it has been requested 40 times, last by kerio, 2h 2m 31s ago.
Dec 20 11:57:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rfc 2119
Dec 20 11:57:19 <infobot> rumour has it, rfc 2119 is Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels. S. Bradner. March 1997. (Format: TXT=4723 bytes) (Also BCP0014) (Status: BEST CURRENT PRACTICE)
Dec 20 12:13:07 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: it's cool
Dec 20 12:14:12 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, just fighting ¶ł@„³@¼²{¬{¬½ KDE plasma panel settings, so might be even unable to type answer
Dec 20 12:14:55 <DocScrutinizer05> so FSCKNG INCREDIBLY obfuscated and inconvenient
Dec 20 12:15:51 <DocScrutinizer05> just wanted to remove an applet and by one silly click removed my standard panel
Dec 20 12:16:29 <DocScrutinizer05> of course incl all applets 
Dec 20 12:16:52 <DocScrutinizer05> F U KDE4!!!
Dec 20 12:22:34 <kerio> lol why u mad tho
Dec 20 12:26:52 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, it's just a PITA
Dec 20 12:28:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly can see why e.g. Rasterman is just using 6584 xterms on his desktop, nuttin else
Dec 20 12:29:00 <DocScrutinizer05> his colered-on-black theme though, with 4PT fonts, would drive me mad ;-D
Dec 20 12:29:12 <DocScrutinizer05> colored*
Dec 20 12:31:23 <DocScrutinizer05> plus it's evidently unhealthy and unergonomic, since your eyes will adapt to low ambient brightness which (each photographer knows what I'm talking bout) is reducing both the reaction speed and the available resolution of the eye
Dec 20 12:33:08 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway murphy seems determined to spoil my day, or that's all in preparation of tomorrow's end of the world already
Dec 20 12:33:56 <DocScrutinizer05> lemme test sth
Dec 20 12:34:01 <DocScrutinizer05> ~rfc BEHAVE
Dec 20 12:34:18 <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much
Dec 20 14:18:31 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
Dec 20 14:18:31 <infobot> DocScrutinizer51: thanks
Dec 20 14:32:35 <DocScrutinizer05> please inform me when this direct connection xchat login ( DocScrutinizer51 ) gets too noisy
Dec 20 14:33:45 <DocScrutinizer05> o/
Dec 20 14:44:21 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: too noisy!
Dec 20 14:44:44 <kerio> you should really get a bouncer
Dec 20 14:45:04 <kerio> they're really good
Dec 20 14:50:50 <thedead1440> does anyone have an idea of how big scratchbox.org really is? we can't seem to get the 80GB ivgalvez mentioned yesterday...
Dec 20 18:51:32 <freemangordon> ~seen ivgalvez
Dec 20 18:51:39 <infobot> ivgalvez <~ivgalvez@89.140.113.138.static.user.ono.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 1h 44m 26s ago, saying: 'speak later'.
Dec 20 19:08:43 <kerio> maybe it's an order
Dec 20 19:08:47 <kerio> -ahem-
Dec 20 19:08:49 <kerio> LATER
Dec 20 20:16:03 <unclouded> big thanks to everyone who helped with u-boot.  my N900 just booted Debian squeeze armel from uSD
Dec 20 20:17:14 <rooster_rus> unclouded: how does it work?
Dec 20 20:17:53 <unclouded> watchdog not being kicked yet so I haven't played with it but it shows a login prompt
Dec 20 20:18:12 <rooster_rus> not much
Dec 20 20:18:15 <rooster_rus> no X? 
Dec 20 20:18:47 <unclouded> probably will run X.  I'm not using a Debian kernel, I'm using Maemo stock + fb by Pali
Dec 20 20:30:54 <freemangordon> unclouded: you will be even able to run sgx drivers from maemo
Dec 20 20:31:08 <freemangordon> GLES accel that is
Dec 20 20:31:30 <freemangordon> or better said - in theory ^^^
Dec 20 21:44:37 <unclouded> oh dear.  the watchdog really does need to work inside the initrd if the initrd is going to attempt to repair file systems
Dec 20 21:56:34 <kerio> hm, is there a way to put down the watchdog?
Dec 20 22:00:14 <unclouded> no idea.  maybe I should look at the source for the watchdog package after I've rebuilt the fs from scratch.  at least I can make notes this time
Dec 20 22:00:47 <merlin1991> unclouded: which watchdog?
Dec 20 22:00:54 <merlin1991> you can disable a few with flasher
Dec 20 22:01:23 <unclouded> N900.  I read that NOLO sets up the watchdog and it needs attention periodically otherwise it will power down
Dec 20 22:01:37 <kerio> can't we unsetup it?
Dec 20 22:02:06 <unclouded> so if an initrd wants to spend time with fsck then it should also reset the watchdog timer periodically
Dec 20 22:02:14 <merlin1991> if you set the device into r&d mode a few watchdog related things are turned off
Dec 20 22:02:20 <int_ua> IIRC, developer mode
Dec 20 22:02:24 <merlin1991> just for testing
Dec 20 22:03:19 <kerio> merlin1991: does NOLO also enable the serial console that uses up power?
Dec 20 22:03:42 <merlin1991> kerio: don't ask me, I only have the high level view of that stuff :D
Dec 20 22:04:42 <kerio> feature request for Pali: kernel module to pet the watchdog
Dec 20 22:05:42 <merlin1991> kerio the idea is to pet the watchdog from userspace so you can grab situations where the system has gone bonkers in userspace
Dec 20 22:06:05 <merlin1991> a kernel module would leave you with a basically useless watchdog
Dec 20 22:06:10 <kerio> we don't have that for normal computers, why do we have that for the n900?
Dec 20 22:06:24 <merlin1991> because the n900 is more than a computer ;)
Dec 20 22:06:34 <kerio> why? what does it have?
Dec 20 22:06:34 <unclouded> doesn't the kernel already have support?  we have to do something to /dev/twl4030_wdt ( from userspace)
Dec 20 22:06:37 <kerio> an integrated modem?
Dec 20 22:06:41 <merlin1991> and you don't worry about burning through your batter in the night when you pc is running
Dec 20 22:06:55 <kerio> unclouded: i meant something that actually tickles the watchdog, not something that only provides access
Dec 20 22:06:55 <merlin1991> whilst a mad userspace on the n900 can ruin your connectivity when you need it
Dec 20 22:07:05 <unclouded> ah, I understand now
Dec 20 22:07:24 <kerio> merlin1991: a mad userspace is something to fix
Dec 20 22:08:06 <merlin1991> kerio: it is still desireable to recover from a mad user space on a battery based system
Dec 20 22:08:16 <kerio> my laptop doesn't do that!
Dec 20 22:08:28 * kerio is against all things nokia
Dec 20 22:09:51 <merlin1991> ping ludens
Dec 20 22:09:53 <merlin1991> err luf
Dec 20 22:10:05 <merlin1991> stufu non context aware autocoplete :D
Dec 20 22:35:52 <luke-jr_> anyone want to have an IRC new years party in #tonal tonight? <.<
Dec 20 22:39:32 <janemba_> hello
Dec 20 22:40:27 <janemba_> Where can I download openvpn package ? It seems that .install have a corrupt URL or maemo extras repository does not contain this package
Dec 20 22:43:20 <luf> janemba_: have you tried http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/openvpn/ ?
Dec 20 22:49:55 <luf> There is openvpn package in extras: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/o/openvpn/
Dec 20 22:51:08 <luf> .... and also newer in extras-devel (but extras should be more stable). It's not good idea to use extras-devel if you don't know what are you doing.
Dec 20 22:51:33 <janemba_> luf: yes
Dec 20 22:53:23 <luf> janemba_: I checked it with apt-get now and it works.
Dec 20 22:53:54 <luf> janemba_: Have you tried HAM?
Dec 20 22:54:12 <janemba_> luf: hmmm...I'm using FAM but maybe I need to update my repos
Dec 20 22:55:09 <luf> Maybe yes. I did apt-get update; apt-get install openvpn
Dec 20 22:55:21 <luf> And also check apt-cache show openvpn
Dec 20 22:55:47 <kerio> janemba_: don't use fapman
Dec 20 22:55:53 <kerio> it's kinda bad
Dec 20 22:56:22 <janemba_> kerio: oh ? So what AM should I use ?
Dec 20 22:56:32 <luf> janemba_: HAM
Dec 20 22:56:33 <kerio> if you want to use a graphical one, use HAM
Dec 20 22:57:37 <int_ua> kerio: why is it bad?
Dec 20 22:58:16 <luf> int_ua: it's too fast ;)
Dec 20 22:58:56 <luf> I think it's ok when you don't upgrade cssu using fapman. But I saw such warning several time on maemo-cssu.
Dec 20 22:58:57 <int_ua> kerio: it's a nokia thing, isn't it? ;)
Dec 20 22:59:11 <kerio> int_ua: no, fapman isn't from nokia
Dec 20 22:59:22 <kerio> it just does some freaky shit with dpkg
Dec 20 22:59:39 <int_ua> luf: I upgrade CSSU using FAM
Dec 20 23:00:00 <int_ua> kerio: HAM is nokia, I mean :)
Dec 20 23:00:13 <kerio> oh, it is
Dec 20 23:00:18 <kerio> that's why it's hopelessly bad
Dec 20 23:00:30 <int_ua> that's what I'm saying
Dec 20 23:01:04 <int_ua> what exactly with dpkg?
Dec 20 23:01:50 <janemba_> do you use openvpn-applet
Dec 20 23:01:53 <janemba_> ?
Dec 20 23:02:12 <int_ua> janemba_: I did a year ago
Dec 20 23:02:32 <kerio> int_ua: it uses its own repo cache, and last time i heard it didn't run some pre*/post* scripts
Dec 20 23:03:02 <janemba_> int_ua: Did you encounter some issues to import your vpn files ?
Dec 20 23:03:07 <int_ua> kerio: oh, so that's why I had to reinstall u-boot in terminal
Dec 20 23:03:31 <int_ua> janemba_: IIRC, no, do you?
Dec 20 23:03:58 <int_ua> kerio: any bugreport link to follow?
Dec 20 23:04:12 <kerio> idk
Dec 20 23:04:56 <janemba_> int_ua: it's ok I use openvpn from command-line :)
Dec 20 23:24:05 <BCMM> how well does XMPP work on the n900?
Dec 20 23:24:33 <BCMM> i'm trying to test it with Gajim on my desktop, and they send IM to each other fine but both claim the other can't do voice calls
Dec 20 23:27:04 <roostrus`> For me it's even skype calls do not work properly  
Dec 20 23:50:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ((so that's why I had to reinstall u-boot in terminal)) exactly. uBoot is one of those pkgs that definitely fail in fapman
Dec 21 00:11:53 <int_ua> Doc: any packages list to start investigating what causes that?
Dec 21 00:39:31 <DocScrutinizer05> it's pretty simple what causes that in this particular case: someting in the pre-install script doesn't work under fapman
Dec 21 00:39:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess it is a requester
Dec 21 00:40:33 <DocScrutinizer05> well, maybe it's not this, maybe it's just fapman's missing ability to to install system components
Dec 21 00:41:08 <DocScrutinizer05> which need this "the phone will not work (not even emergency calls) during that time"
Dec 21 00:41:12 <DocScrutinizer05> and a reboot
Dec 21 00:42:17 <DocScrutinizer05> check out sysupd
Dec 21 00:43:31 <DocScrutinizer05> softupd
Dec 21 00:53:54 <Macer> wtf
Dec 21 00:53:59 <Macer> this wrt610n is running like crap
Dec 21 00:54:02 <Macer> am i missing something here?
Dec 21 00:54:08 <DocScrutinizer05> fapman is deliberately simplistic to gain a bit of speed against HAM
Dec 21 01:03:49 <DocScrutinizer05> int_ua: look, HAM sourcecode is open, yet somebody thought it was a good idea to start from scratch building an app manager rather than improving HAM
Dec 21 01:04:42 <DocScrutinizer05> int_ua: what's your guess of the quality of the design of such an app?
Dec 21 01:06:10 <DocScrutinizer05> "duh, I don't get what this is meant to do, let's omit it. And that's exactly the same, so scratch that too. And this looks overly complicated, I bet I can find a simpler algo"
Dec 21 01:06:58 <DocScrutinizer05> "look! it's a FAAAAST app, I'll call it fapman"
Dec 21 01:08:18 <robbiethe1st> Bah, apt-get is where it's at!
Dec 21 01:09:23 <DocScrutinizer05> even apt-get fails for some pkgs
Dec 21 01:10:01 <DocScrutinizer05> well, at least it's not exactly working as expected
Dec 21 01:10:48 <DocScrutinizer05> mind that apt-get upgrade is strongly deprecated
Dec 21 01:11:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and apt-get dist-upgrade is outright forbidden
Dec 21 01:13:58 <SpeedEvil> apt-get dist-upgrade puts wp7 on it.
Dec 21 01:15:14 <merlin1991> DocScrutinizer05: I have yet to run over a pkg where apt-get failed
Dec 21 01:15:32 <merlin1991> but I never tried todo firwmare updates with it
Dec 21 01:51:20 <DocScrutinizer05> well, probably that statement about pkgs that don't work was not to the point, it's more like there are missing command options in apt-get to do all that HAM does
Dec 21 01:52:31 <DocScrutinizer05> once you know your pkg names, an apt-get install [--$<other-options>] $<pkgname> will usually work, I guess
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 21 02:59:59 2012