**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 05 02:59:59 2013 Jan 05 06:11:37 greetings, I'm trying to preform a apt-get update on my n900 and getting an error "GPG Error url... KEYEXPIRED" anyone know anything about this? Jan 05 06:55:41 Does removing hildon-application-manager fix the issues with setting a static /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jan 05 06:55:42 ? Jan 05 06:56:09 newbie007: yes. it's a known issue. you can safely ignore it Jan 05 06:58:06 Anyone know? Jan 05 06:59:57 Sicelo: but it prevents me from updating.. Jan 05 07:12:25 newbie007: i believe it doesn't. that error has been around for quite some time now, but we've been able to update. are you sure you don't have other problems? Jan 05 07:13:43 Snafu777: i don't know. i don't even know what you mean by 'static' Jan 05 07:15:49 in any case, you shouldn't be able to remove HAM. you can try to reinstall it (apt-get install --reinstall ...) Jan 05 07:16:01 it sucks and its slow Jan 05 07:16:11 i user faster application manager Jan 05 07:16:33 HAM is slow, but your FAM can kill your system. Jan 05 07:18:40 leave HAM alone. maybe ccsu will eventually make it suck less Jan 05 07:19:40 i just wanted to remove it in hopes that it doesnt mess with my sources list Jan 05 07:19:44 how can FAM kill the system? Jan 05 07:20:08 because by default, it will overwrite my sources list Jan 05 07:20:19 But Sicelo, I would be very interested to know why it would kill the system? Jan 05 07:20:23 you can't remove HAM. you can't even remove games :P Jan 05 07:20:32 i did Jan 05 07:20:34 apt-get purge Jan 05 07:20:34 gone Jan 05 07:20:37 p00f Jan 05 07:20:49 and u can remove games dude =) Jan 05 07:23:15 Impressive. Anyway, removing HAM is a questionable thing to do. Jan 05 07:23:26 Not following? Jan 05 07:23:45 its a shitty application GUI, and it affects my sources list Jan 05 07:23:49 it tries to autoupdate Jan 05 07:24:01 the scum who invented it should be shot and hung and disemboweled Jan 05 07:24:11 by why do u say it should not be removed? whats yer basis? Jan 05 07:25:07 you can adjust the auto-update period Jan 05 07:25:10 i know Jan 05 07:25:20 but its still affected (sources list) by ham Jan 05 07:25:22 which is BS Jan 05 07:25:29 a gui should not modify a file without permission Jan 05 07:25:57 But why do u say removing it would break the system? Jan 05 07:26:44 i didn't. i said it's questionable. Jan 05 07:27:33 I don't agree man =) I appreciate the "advice" but its questionable advice at best, you can't tell somebody they shouldnt do something with a computer if u dont have a reasoning to back it up, that's never a good way to give advice Jan 05 07:28:01 U also said FAM can kill my system, why" Jan 05 07:28:02 ? Jan 05 07:29:57 it has done that for other people. check the logs for this channel, and possibly TMO Jan 05 07:30:03 * Snafu777 <~~~ All about making the N900 a pentest device in my pocket Jan 05 07:30:30 in any case, i suppose i'm unable to help with your particular case. Jan 05 07:31:00 No worries, I appreciate the advice anyways man =) Jan 05 07:31:17 cool Jan 05 07:31:30 So do u do any hacking with yer N900 ? Jan 05 07:31:55 pentesting? no Jan 05 07:32:05 Aw, yer missing out =) Jan 05 07:32:12 Its a heckuva system to do it from Jan 05 07:32:17 Just needs some tweaks and its perfect Jan 05 07:32:22 I can even use rj-45 on mine =) Jan 05 07:32:41 i know. i do use USB-host. Jan 05 07:32:58 and i even boot debian wheezy on it Jan 05 07:45:23 Chuck Norris has an Intel CPU on an AMD motherboard. Jan 05 08:48:25 So..... Jan 05 08:48:38 Sicelo: You were somewhat right my friend Jan 05 08:48:41 It doesnt break the system Jan 05 08:48:44 removing HAM Jan 05 08:48:56 but it prevents installation of certain packages via the missing of files Jan 05 08:49:07 Fixable? Yes.... Worth it, No...... Jan 05 08:49:09 So.... Jan 05 08:49:17 How do we get around HAM's bullshit... Jan 05 08:49:20 That is the question Jan 05 08:50:29 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Jan 05 08:50:35 That file gets overwritten from time to time Jan 05 08:50:45 Does anyone on here know how to prevent that? Jan 05 09:25:36 Snafu777: it's not a file you're supposed to edit manually Jan 05 09:25:49 make your own file in the same directory Jan 05 09:25:57 or use /etc/apt/sources.list Jan 05 09:26:21 HAM will pick up the repos in those files (and won't change them) Jan 05 09:26:25 ~fapman Jan 05 09:26:26 [fapman] Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever Jan 05 09:27:06 it doesn't run the pre/post scripts correctly, as fas as i could see Jan 05 09:27:12 ooo Jan 05 09:27:13 feedback Jan 05 09:27:27 so i can drop /etc/apt/sources.list Jan 05 09:27:42 but will apt-get still use whats in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* Jan 05 09:28:12 Basically here is what I am trying to do Jan 05 09:28:16 Trim some fat off the stock OS Jan 05 09:28:23 HAM sucks, cuz its a slow GUI Jan 05 09:28:27 I dont use GUIs Jan 05 09:28:34 but people who will use the image i create will Jan 05 09:28:39 therefore i need a nice GUI for them Jan 05 09:28:43 ie... FAM Jan 05 09:28:54 except that Jan 05 09:28:56 ~fapman Jan 05 09:28:57 [fapman] Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever Jan 05 09:29:00 but yer telling me it breaks things.... and finally i get a reason why Jan 05 09:29:09 it doesnt process .deb preinst and post inst stuff Jan 05 09:29:13 correct>?< Jan 05 09:29:36 ~bleh Jan 05 09:29:37 bleh means insert appropriate value here. see blah Jan 05 09:29:40 hmm Jan 05 09:29:44 * Snafu777 hugs infotbot Jan 05 09:29:56 apt-get and any conforming package manager will use /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* Jan 05 09:29:56 ~blah Jan 05 09:29:57 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Jan 05 09:30:36 and yes, HAM is awful Jan 05 09:30:40 i know about /etc/apt/sources.list, but the people who invented the N900 had some crazy ideas regarding FHS and their implementation thereof Jan 05 09:30:43 ie... Jan 05 09:30:48 256MB nand...and placing / on it Jan 05 09:30:53 set the autoupdate frequency to a year or so Jan 05 09:30:56 yeah Jan 05 09:30:59 fixed that issue Jan 05 09:31:08 via gconf Jan 05 09:31:16 Snafu777: rootfs on a 230mb ubifs is fine, if you put usr somewhere else Jan 05 09:31:22 nodz Jan 05 09:31:24 rbinded =) Jan 05 09:31:29 still though Jan 05 09:31:33 shitty implementation Jan 05 09:31:41 mounting /opt to /home/opt, etc.. Jan 05 09:31:44 sadly, they fucked that up with the optification Jan 05 09:31:56 Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my n900 Jan 05 09:32:02 there is no better handheld pentest device Jan 05 09:32:04 No better Jan 05 09:32:11 Ill bitchslap the fool who says otherwise Jan 05 09:32:12 But Jan 05 09:32:16 Im trying to trim some fat =) Jan 05 09:32:23 * Snafu777 asks for forgiveness, slightly drunk =) Jan 05 09:32:36 Thanks for the why by the way kerio Jan 05 09:32:48 I had input from another user earlier, but they couldnt explain the why part Jan 05 09:32:51 u actually told me why Jan 05 09:32:55 so i appreciate that.... Jan 05 09:33:15 tis good advice, vs, "they heard" from "that dude" who spoke with "that guy" who heard from "this fella" Jan 05 09:33:32 packages that most definetely fail are, for instance, the various kernel flashers Jan 05 09:33:56 hmm Jan 05 09:33:59 which sucks, because you tend to update (correctly) the modules at the same time, and then you reboot Jan 05 09:33:59 i can prolly google myself Jan 05 09:34:13 but can i tell apt-get NOT to look at /etc/apt/sources.list.d? Jan 05 09:34:30 * Snafu777 <~~~ building a custom image to be distro'd out =) Jan 05 09:34:40 i suppose there's a way Jan 05 09:34:41 if the user wants to interact with a GUI, cool Jan 05 09:34:50 but apt-get is the way the target audience will react Jan 05 09:34:56 and having the sources overwritten is bullshit Jan 05 09:35:08 or having apt-get look in two places Jan 05 09:35:09 they won't be overwritten dammit Jan 05 09:35:12 in the n900's case Jan 05 09:35:23 HAM will write its own file Jan 05 09:35:26 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager is definately overwritten Jan 05 09:35:30 and apt-get pulls from that Jan 05 09:35:36 which is why i asked =) Jan 05 09:35:44 and having multiple files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d is standard, really Jan 05 09:35:51 yeah Jan 05 09:36:17 but writing something that will check for a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* and removing it prior to an apt-get instance is stupid, I want one source for the users Jan 05 09:36:23 prefered to have /etc/apt/sources.list Jan 05 09:36:41 so disable every catalog in HAM and use sources.list Jan 05 09:36:42 but if apt-get looks in /etc/apt/sources.list.d as well, and i cant permanently delete that location Jan 05 09:36:48 then it fucks me =-) Jan 05 09:36:57 but then that fucks the user who wants a gui =) Jan 05 09:37:03 I have to satisfy both kerio =) Jan 05 09:37:09 no, HAM will use all the repos Jan 05 09:37:17 but will it not overwrite? Jan 05 09:37:27 via disabling every catalog in ham? Jan 05 09:37:49 his own repos are editable from HAM and will be written unilaterally to hildon-application-manager.list Jan 05 09:38:02 the other repos will appear in the list but won't be editable Jan 05 09:38:12 Ah Jan 05 09:38:19 Tested and tried kerio ? Jan 05 09:38:31 do your own testing dude Jan 05 09:38:34 i do Jan 05 09:38:35 but Jan 05 09:38:45 it seems thats its a random timing for overwriting Jan 05 09:38:52 i cant make it "kick" by opening HAM Jan 05 09:38:55 it just does it Jan 05 09:39:00 of its own accord when it feels like Jan 05 09:39:04 from what ive seen Jan 05 09:39:06 which is why i ask =) Jan 05 09:39:14 i figure its a timer via gconf somewhere Jan 05 09:39:18 something of that nature Jan 05 09:39:19 but Jan 05 09:39:21 ham SHALL NOT write to any file other than his Jan 05 09:39:24 ~2119 Jan 05 09:39:25 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Jan 05 09:39:41 gtfoh infobot... I like the bot =) Jan 05 09:39:43 ~slap Jan 05 09:39:45 * infobot thinks snafu777 should be slapped Jan 05 09:39:51 ~suckfuck Jan 05 09:39:58 uh huh Jan 05 09:40:02 infobot wasnt expecting that one Jan 05 09:40:09 once you disable every "catalog" in HAM, his repo file will be empty, just leave it there Jan 05 09:40:19 and add your own somewhere else Jan 05 09:41:31 gotcha man Jan 05 09:41:33 u solved the issue Jan 05 09:41:36 I appreciate it much Jan 05 09:41:40 ~tickle Jan 05 09:41:41 * infobot tickles % Jan 05 09:41:46 ~stroke Jan 05 09:41:49 it's what scratchbox does, after all Jan 05 09:41:57 never bothered to use scratchbox Jan 05 09:42:02 prefer to dev on the hardware itself via ssh Jan 05 09:42:04 and such.. Jan 05 09:42:48 scratchbox is cool for some implications, but for ideas that revolve around hardware centric stuff (i.e. the wireless chipset) scratchbox cannot work Jan 05 09:42:57 But thank ya kerio Jan 05 09:43:01 You have solved my issue Jan 05 09:43:04 and I appreciate it much =) Jan 05 09:43:40 and ps.... Dont remove HAM =) It truly breaks shit via: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst LINE 24 maemo-confirm-text issues Jan 05 09:45:15 ~ping google.com Jan 05 09:45:16 pong google.com Jan 05 09:45:22 ~ping configitnow.com Jan 05 09:45:23 pong configitnow.com Jan 05 09:45:25 hmm Jan 05 09:45:28 i wonder if he does... Jan 05 09:45:43 * Snafu777 thinks he might could abuse infobot Jan 05 09:45:50 ~slurp Jan 05 09:45:51 Watches as any program is installed and turns it into an RPM. URL: http://students.vassar.edu/~jajohnst/slurp/ Jan 05 09:46:00 okay, sorry for the spam =) Jan 05 09:46:02 ill quit now Jan 05 09:47:30 ping Snafu777 Jan 05 09:47:38 ~ping Snafu777 Jan 05 09:47:38 pong Snafu777 Jan 05 09:47:45 :) Jan 05 09:48:04 ~rape Snafu777 Jan 05 09:48:05 * infobot takes Snafu777 behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams Jan 05 09:48:16 whoa Jan 05 09:48:22 ~molest ZogG_laptop Jan 05 09:48:30 bah Jan 05 09:48:39 ~slap infobot Jan 05 09:48:40 * infobot slaps infobot, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Jan 05 09:50:26 So... Jan 05 09:50:31 Anyone here use curl on their N900? Jan 05 09:53:14 ~ping Snafu777 Jan 05 09:53:16 pong Snafu777 Jan 05 09:59:19 Snafu777: why do you need to use curl? Jan 05 10:06:03 curl is a necesarry function bro =-) Jan 05 10:06:07 Its curl Jan 05 10:06:08 ... Jan 05 10:06:14 i know Jan 05 10:06:23 but still what do you mean by using it? Jan 05 10:06:31 Curious if anyone here has curl on their n900 Jan 05 10:06:42 It took me a while how to figure out porting it properly to the n900 Jan 05 10:06:49 with support for ssl, etc.. Jan 05 10:06:59 dloading via the repos, breaks things Jan 05 10:07:39 kinda curious who on here perhaps used it Jan 05 10:07:48 and if they had ssl support without having apt-get broke Jan 05 10:13:07 Snafu777: i bet there are already ports of it Jan 05 10:13:26 Not successful ones =) Jan 05 10:13:31 i dunno Jan 05 10:13:32 try =) Jan 05 10:13:36 and then do apt-get update Jan 05 10:13:37 youll see Jan 05 10:13:38 i don't have n900 for a long time now :) Jan 05 10:15:56 hmm Jan 05 10:16:05 Snafu777: can you please more elaborate what's wrong with curl? Jan 05 10:16:16 Do u use it? Jan 05 10:16:24 The version that supports curl in the repo is very broken Jan 05 10:16:25 worked for me Jan 05 10:16:28 it destroys apt-get Jan 05 10:16:30 but maybe the ssl is fucked up? Jan 05 10:16:32 er Jan 05 10:16:34 fml Jan 05 10:16:35 drunk Jan 05 10:16:38 Snafu777: I'm the maintainer ... Jan 05 10:16:40 the version that supports SSL is broke Jan 05 10:16:44 Ah Jan 05 10:16:46 Interesting Jan 05 10:16:48 I have a fix for ya Jan 05 10:16:50 sb1 Jan 05 11:26:43 ~kill Snafu777 Jan 05 11:26:45 * infobot shoots a excited fluxpositrino gun at Snafu777 Jan 05 11:26:57 ~snarf Jan 05 11:26:59 Command-line URL retrieval tool with some unique features.. URL: http://www.xach.com/snarf/ Jan 05 11:27:08 ~Snafu Jan 05 11:27:09 snafu is, like, Situation Normal: All fux0red up. See also fux0red. Jan 05 11:27:39 * Snafu777 debates about the uses for abusing infobot Jan 05 11:42:46 the scriptkiddiness is strong in that one Jan 05 11:48:54 [general notice] if you installed the new zlib1g from cssu-devel, make sure you've also installed the latest libxml2 from cssu-devel, or you'll get a bootloop when you reboot Jan 05 12:51:15 wow, if I ever done something useful in my life, it seems it's been h-e-n Jan 05 12:53:57 which same time makes me a tad sad I did give up on henine Jan 05 12:57:08 henine? Jan 05 12:57:24 [general notice] nobody installs something from cssu-devel Jan 05 12:57:35 hm why that? Jan 05 12:57:37 hen for N9 Jan 05 12:58:45 merlin1991: (cssu-devel?) because it's a sure way to break your system Jan 05 12:58:58 atm it's sorta safe again Jan 05 12:59:43 it's like suggesting to camp on the shooting range Jan 05 12:59:59 well it does say that in the description :D Jan 05 13:01:21 kerio dropped a [general notice] of brilliant nonsense here, that sounds like everybody installs from cssu-devel nowadays. So I had to correct that Jan 05 13:02:21 emphasis on "here" Jan 05 13:02:40 this is not even #maemo-ssu! Jan 05 13:02:42 DocScrutinizer05: i said *if* Jan 05 13:02:46 i said *if*! Jan 05 13:02:54 conditional! Jan 05 13:03:47 nd Jan 05 13:03:51 whoops Jan 05 13:04:01 DocScrutinizer05: just masochist tester/devel installs from cssu-devel. But without that people we can't make progress :D For sude don't install from cssu-devel if you don't know what you're doing ;) But noone is too strong. Jan 05 13:04:06 and system breakages should be reported, even for stuff like cssu-devel Jan 05 13:04:21 *sure Jan 05 13:04:29 "if you're camping in square C-6 of shooting range, don't forget to also get your kevlar vest" Jan 05 13:04:32 indeed Jan 05 13:04:47 because there was a metadata problem and the C-6 square didn't properly depend on the kevlar vest Jan 05 13:05:14 breakages are expected, not /deserved/ Jan 05 13:05:23 "oh hey, they even give instructions on HOW to camp there, so it must be safe" Jan 05 13:07:48 kerio: I see your intentions, and they are good. You're ignoring the nature of general luser though Jan 05 13:09:52 [general notice] if, against everyone's better judgement, you happened to install zlib1g from cssu-devel lately, check that you've also updated libxml2 in the mean time or your n900 will blow up Jan 05 13:10:28 better Jan 05 13:10:31 :-) Jan 05 13:13:53 though I generally tend to just state that users MUST NOT (rfc2119) install XY, and if they already did, please go to #maemo-ssu and ask for help immediately. Installing anything from that repository is generally deprecated for the normal user. Jan 05 13:18:18 re >>/deserved/<<: if somebody installs from CSSU-devel but doesn't notice a big fat WARNING on #maemo-ssu, then this luser indeed deserves what he gets Jan 05 13:18:57 i agree Jan 05 13:19:07 IOW your [general notice] would be absolutely correct on #maemo-ssu, but here I feel it's more dangerous than helpful Jan 05 13:21:29 [general notice] if, against everyone's better judgement, you happened to install something from cssu-devel, SUCKS TO BE YOU Jan 05 13:21:49 like this? Jan 05 13:22:49 somehow i think it's worse Jan 05 13:25:52 lol you two :p Jan 05 13:26:49 :) Jan 05 13:45:08 DocScrutinizer05, can we use new maemo wiki on new server? Jan 05 13:45:12 or not? Jan 05 13:46:59 Pali: I think we can Jan 05 13:47:24 you already got a etc7hosts to share? Jan 05 13:47:43 ok, so doing: 'echo 188.117.59.202 wiki.maemo.org >> /etc/hosts' Jan 05 13:54:00 Pali: yay Jan 05 13:54:02 wiki Jan 05 13:57:19 Pali: will changes to that wiki be saved? Jan 05 13:57:34 kerio, I think yes Jan 05 13:57:36 try ti Jan 05 13:57:42 no, i mean Jan 05 13:57:49 we're going to keep that wiki Jan 05 13:57:51 not the old one Jan 05 13:58:04 kerio, that is ip addresses of new wiki server Jan 05 13:58:11 where was migration Jan 05 13:58:22 and now waiting until Nokia update A recodrs Jan 05 13:58:24 dammit where's the cssu changelog Jan 05 13:58:33 oh, here we go Jan 05 13:58:54 but I already updated my /etc/hosts :D Jan 05 13:59:45 * kerio shakes his fist at merlin1991, not properly writing the CSSU version in the changelog Jan 05 13:59:48 "this is the new version" Jan 05 13:59:55 Pali: lol, now i flushed my /etc/hosts. please paste yours if you don't mind Jan 05 14:00:28 Sicelo, where? on n900? Jan 05 14:00:50 yes Jan 05 14:00:56 just restart phone, upstart will generate new after reboot Jan 05 14:01:32 wow. thanks Jan 05 14:02:24 ok, i assume that the changelog with no version is for T6 Jan 05 14:04:05 $ OPI=`which osso-product-info`; if [ ! -f /etc/hostname -o ! -s /etc/hostname -o ! -f /etc/hosts -o ! -s /etc/hosts ]; then hostname="`$OPI -qOSSO_PRODUCT_SHORT_NAME | sed 's/ /-/g'`"; echo $hostname > /etc/hostname; echo "127.0.0.1 $hostname localhost" > /etc/hosts; chmod 644 /etc/hosts; fi Jan 05 14:04:22 this is used in /etc/init.d/rcS ^^^^^ Jan 05 14:05:30 btw Pali, you ever noticed the bug that you can't ping 127.0.0.1 if you are on cellular internet? Jan 05 14:05:50 Sicelo: that's a nasty bug :s Jan 05 14:05:52 no, never Jan 05 14:05:55 unless you use ifconfig to down, then up the interface.. Jan 05 14:06:06 $ ifup lo Jan 05 14:07:09 iirc only ifconfig works.. not ifup Jan 05 14:08:35 anyway, i suppose it's not so important. but still weird Jan 05 14:09:02 meh, it's merlin1991's job anyway Jan 05 14:10:01 kerio on tmo there is the changelog for T6 T7 and T7.1 :D Jan 05 14:10:38 merlin1991: yeah but it's ugly Jan 05 14:10:39 kerio: also http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/mp-fremantle-community-pr/blobs/master/debian/changelog is ususally helpfull Jan 05 14:11:04 like, the rest of the changelog is all in tables and with proper capitalisation Jan 05 14:11:23 guess what I do each time :D Jan 05 14:11:45 paste the changelog and wait for someone else to format it properly? Jan 05 14:12:04 ususally I format it on the wiki when I put it in Jan 05 14:12:43 well, i don't want to infringe on your style Jan 05 14:12:52 rofl Jan 05 14:58:10 ~jrtools Jan 05 14:58:11 [jrtools] http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jan 05 14:58:55 infobot: no, jrtools is echo 188.117.59.202 wiki.maemo.org >> /etc/hosts; http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jan 05 14:58:55 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Jan 05 14:58:59 ~jrtools Jan 05 14:58:59 echo 188.117.59.202 wiki.maemo.org >> /etc/hosts; http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jan 05 14:59:14 \o/ Jan 05 15:02:09 infobot: no, jrtools is cp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts-maemobackup && echo "188.117.59.202 wiki.maemo.org" >> /etc/hosts; http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jan 05 15:02:10 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Jan 05 15:11:40 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/DNS-TBD.html Jan 05 15:12:07 * freemangordon read #maemo-meeting logs Jan 05 15:12:17 wow, great progress :) Jan 05 15:12:49 seems after all there is a light at the end of the tunnel :) Jan 05 15:19:02 how would I emulate a CNAME DNS in my /etc/hosts? Jan 05 15:19:39 you wouldn't Jan 05 15:19:45 no, actually you would Jan 05 15:19:46 thought as much Jan 05 15:20:00 i think you can just put the hostname instead of the ip Jan 05 15:20:08 o.O Jan 05 15:20:11 really? Jan 05 15:20:15 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/637994/can-i-use-the-etc-hosts-file-to-configure-an-alias Jan 05 15:20:17 idk, try it Jan 05 15:20:23 aww :( Jan 05 15:20:26 thedead1440: \o/ Jan 05 15:20:35 DocScrutinizer05: it says you can't Jan 05 15:21:00 DocScrutinizer05: what for, btw? Jan 05 15:21:20 the hosts file is just used when resolving names into addresses Jan 05 15:22:08 yep Jan 05 15:23:56 I guess for now adding emulated A records instead of CNAME records to /etc/hosts is all I can do Jan 05 15:25:46 DocScrutinizer05: of course it's not Jan 05 15:25:50 run a local DNS server Jan 05 15:26:09 haha, yeah Jan 05 15:26:39 for you and all the remaining 60k of community - on one of my spare N900 Jan 05 15:27:40 actually that link has a sh script that could be run as a cron job saving the need to have a local DNS server... Jan 05 15:42:36 https://bugs.maemo.org/ "Connection to Server Refused" mhm Jan 05 15:44:10 DocScrutinizer05: open a bug for it Jan 05 15:44:17 looooooool Jan 05 15:47:36 for your convenience: wget http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/DNS-TBD-.etc.hosts >>/etc/hosts Jan 05 15:49:36 So basically things are in place except that we are still waiting for Nokia to get its ass into gear and point the DNS at the new locations for this stuff? Jan 05 15:49:46 yep Jan 05 15:49:53 partially at least Jan 05 15:50:40 which is muuuuuch better than I been expecting Jan 05 15:50:50 :-D Jan 05 15:51:54 wait Jan 05 15:52:12 forgot to insert a tag for later easy removal Jan 05 15:52:17 so is the issue just that the right people at Nokia are slow/lazy/still on holidays/whatever or are there actual issues here (e.g. legal guys need to do things) Jan 05 15:57:56 the latter, with HiFo Jan 05 15:58:04 I assume Jan 05 15:58:43 dnsmaster@nokia.com doesn't answer Nemein inquiries Jan 05 16:00:58 alas HiFo states those negotiations are non-public according to Nokia's explicit request, so we have to trust in our board to "do the right thing" here Jan 05 16:01:15 extreme responsibility Jan 05 16:04:13 I wish them all the best, and good councilors/experts they can check with, to make sure their approach is the best we can do Jan 05 16:04:36 after all that's about *lawyers* Jan 05 16:05:14 the negotiation is non-public, but the final result can't be, right? Jan 05 16:05:32 and DNS is only a small chunk of the whole package to agree upon Jan 05 16:08:39 I bet the final result will get published by HiFo Jan 05 16:09:35 I would imagine that negotiations would probably include the right to redistribute various (c) Nokia content, rights to use Nokia trademarks in certain cases where HiFo and the community needs to be able to use those trademarks and who knows what else Jan 05 16:10:20 yup Jan 05 16:12:35 There is a thread on tmo where people are supposed to be listing all things related to Maemo/MeeGo/Harmattan/N900/N950/N9 that are not on *.maemo.org but where ownership/distribution rights need to be transferred to the community so I imagine the stuff there factors into it too Jan 05 16:13:19 * SpeedEvil imagines what a full release of all sources on open licences would do. Jan 05 16:13:22 and I think - even while generally non-public - HiFo *should* (B)CC at least council on their negotiations, since it's really way too much responsibility for just 2 people to get the whole FOSS spirit and all the minuscule details about each single domain right, without some sparring/feedback from other guys Jan 05 16:13:28 (probably little) Jan 05 16:13:53 (and Impossible) Jan 05 16:15:41 Off the top of my head I can easily list off about 10-20 currently-closed packages that would enable great things if they were open-sourced. In saying that though reading the list at http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages I can see valid reasons why a fair whack of them remain closed Jan 05 16:16:35 haha, opensource Nokia blobs, dream on, this is NOT about such miracles Jan 05 16:17:18 and I honestly hope HiFo did get that as well Jan 05 16:18:41 worst thing that could happen: Nokia simply stopping negotiations about transfer of maemo.org domains and content due to HiFo asking for and insisting in too much, that Nokia simply can't do Jan 05 16:22:11 we'll blame thedead1440 then, for writing a customer mail to elop and thus "making evil authorities in nokia aware" of the maemo issue ;-P Jan 05 16:22:26 * thedead1440 hides Jan 05 16:22:51 thedead1440: how DARE you? Jan 05 16:23:03 i wrote it from a consumer not from maemo and highlighted 3 issues including maemo :S Jan 05 16:23:11 hehe Jan 05 16:23:26 thedead1440: just kidding, I hope you noticed that Jan 05 16:23:32 ofcourse :p Jan 05 16:24:14 its after all very convenient to say 2 drafts were what was wanted and due to the email the 3rd draft was watered down Jan 05 16:24:56 and you wrote it to elop? Jan 05 16:25:02 of course Jan 05 16:25:10 tough shit, it probably got nowhere close to him Jan 05 16:25:13 i wrote a long rant to him; its old news Jan 05 16:25:24 it was *long* too? Jan 05 16:25:32 it got to him most probably Jan 05 16:25:41 then the small chance that he could've stumbled upon it is actually 0 Jan 05 16:25:48 he replies to L920 users and mnb too before Jan 05 16:25:50 actually when HiFo sends back first contract with comments what should get changed, and gets a 2nd draft with worse conditions, it's not necessarily thedead1440 who made the lawyers reconsider. It might as well have been the comments HiFo added to the first draft that made Nokia lawyers look at some cases once again and suddenly notice there's something that slipped their attention in first draft Jan 05 16:26:27 why wouldn't nokia want to just get rid of all the maemo cruft? Jan 05 16:26:44 kerio: i didn't say i'm thedead1440 and referring to maemo but I gave my real name saying as a Nokia consumer some issues were troubling like stopping paid apps for n9 being listed in china etc Jan 05 16:27:13 it's ok, we won't stop apps for windows phone being listed in china Jan 05 16:27:37 my main issues were with device support for existing devices with valid warranties Jan 05 16:28:04 maemo was one para in it highlighting in the grand scheme of things device support Jan 05 16:29:46 and my last post pretty much explains why I think HiFo *ought* share and discuss their negotiations with Nokia with council Jan 05 16:30:17 err Jan 05 16:30:24 well DocScrutinizer05 i think i should post my email on the ML to get rid of suspicions Jan 05 16:30:28 and my last post pretty much explains why I think HiFo *ought* share and discuss with council their negotiations with Nokia Jan 05 16:30:57 yes, probably a very good idea Jan 05 16:31:19 thedead1440: ^^^ Jan 05 16:31:39 i'm contemplating it but then what i wrote won't remain private so weighing against it Jan 05 16:32:40 well, didn't you answer to the public(?) bashing by HiFo already? Jan 05 16:33:16 DocScrutinizer05: no srsly, why would nokia stop the negotiations? :( Jan 05 16:33:20 but i asked if they wanted the email they didn't reply on that Jan 05 16:33:21 or was this in a closed ML once again? Jan 05 16:33:48 nope doc it was cc'ed to board & council Jan 05 16:33:58 both are closed Jan 05 16:34:05 aka non-public Jan 05 16:34:48 releasing it just invites more flaming against me, I think... I'm an individual after all and its very easy to go on TMO and say due to thedead1440's email to Elop we have lost this and that Jan 05 16:35:01 so as long as HiFo bashing against you is non-public, I recommend you shouldn't answer it in public either Jan 05 16:35:03 cue massive outrage bla bla Jan 05 16:35:14 exactly that's what I was thinking too Jan 05 16:37:59 * jonwil does his best to avoid political and legal crap Jan 05 16:38:03 I just want to write code :) Jan 05 16:38:51 (( why wouldn't nokia want to just get rid of all the maemo cruft?)) kerio, HiFo is thinking BIG, really BIIIIG, they want further all sorts of maemo-derived and generally open source projects, maemo itself is just a small aspect on their agenda Jan 05 16:40:15 kerio: so I'm afraid they demand Nokia to do things they can't do, like opensourcing whole maemo (something we didn't manage even in times when there was actually personal in Nokia who knew what maemo actually is) Jan 05 16:41:08 other possible points of argue are about commercializing maemo trademark and sourcecode Jan 05 16:41:24 as well as meego and whatnot else Jan 05 16:42:33 DocScrutinizer05 explain "commercializing maemo trademark and sourcecode" you mean HiFo is asking for rights to do so? Jan 05 16:42:44 I sometimes think HiFo is overestimating their own power and relevance to entities like Nokia, jolla, etc Jan 05 16:43:18 thedead1440: if they would, this for sure might cause massive trouble in getting any agreement with Nokia Jan 05 16:45:19 well, let's tell them to stfu Jan 05 16:46:02 whom? HiFo? I don't even know what they're saying right now, so I don't think STFU is the right advice Jan 05 16:47:20 rather my advice is: "consider doing frequent regular reality-check with your colleagues from maemo council" Jan 05 16:47:31 btw DocScrutinizer05 what do you make of Jolla's response to HiFo? Jan 05 16:47:41 the answered? Jan 05 16:47:48 they* Jan 05 16:48:12 to the "open letter"? Jan 05 16:49:09 DocScrutinizer05 http://hildonfoundation.org/open-letter-from-the-hildon-foundation-to-jolla/#comment-41 Jan 05 16:50:06 if its really them though :) Jan 05 16:50:30 M4rtinK: its them they tweeted about it yesterday Jan 05 16:50:53 oh, nice Jan 05 16:51:30 M4rtinK: https://twitter.com/JollaMobile/status/287237299794739200 Jan 05 16:52:40 "we're unlike, in the sense that we eventually want to make money from it" Jan 05 16:52:57 how evil Jan 05 16:53:56 thedead1440: well, it's what I've expected Jan 05 16:54:11 what do you think they are saying? Jan 05 16:55:05 HiFo is offering "services" that they basically can't deliver, since those "services" are from *community* not HiFo Jan 05 16:55:48 I'm failing to see what's evil here? Jan 05 16:55:59 nothing, in my book Jan 05 16:57:05 it's just that HiFo can't offer any service of value to Jolla, other than putting them on their "supporters" page Jan 05 16:58:35 so if Jolla would decide to fund HiFo/maemo, they'd do for PR, not to get any service from HiFo Jan 05 16:59:08 unlike mer/nemo project, which is actually doing a service that Jolla pretty much depends on Jan 05 16:59:43 and they are not interested in such PR as of now? So they said thanks but no thanks in a nice way? Is that what you mean DocScrutinizer05 Jan 05 17:00:09 the next comment (#42) makes the misconception quite obvious Jan 05 17:01:34 thedead1440: I think they just said "no service offered by HiFo to Jolla" in a nice and friendly way. Not even mentioning if they might consider funding for PR or for mere goodwill Jan 05 17:02:00 ah ok ;) Jan 05 17:03:21 IOW that's an answer from Jolla's project lead, not from Jolla's PR department Jan 05 17:05:05 [quote joris, #42] >>You will need the support that the Hildon Foundation is offering you! << Probably not Jan 05 17:05:26 I think it should been worded more directly Jan 05 17:05:38 +1 Jan 05 17:06:02 HiFO: we have a nice mobile user & dev community in need of hosting Jan 05 17:06:07 M4rtinK: IMO a more direct reply would have the ability to put off some Jolla fans who are first maemo fans Jan 05 17:06:14 * freemangordon wonders what HiFo was expecting Jan 05 17:06:25 freemangordon: nfc Jan 05 17:06:41 pay us hosting and it is quite likely that the community will see you in favourable light & you might get quite a few longtime developers interested :) Jan 05 17:06:43 [2013-01-05 17:42:43] I sometimes think HiFo is overestimating their own power and relevance to entities like Nokia, jolla, etc Jan 05 17:07:01 TBH I'd rather asked Canonical Jan 05 17:07:06 M4rtinK: +1 Jan 05 17:07:12 (yeah, I know they are evil :P ) Jan 05 17:07:32 :D Jan 05 17:07:45 * DocScrutinizer05 gasps Jan 05 17:07:49 HiFo: oh and we have a really nice forum up and running & migh consider adding a Jolla section to it & the maling lists Jan 05 17:07:51 with the addition of Sailfish on xda i don't think they will need a tmo equivalent too Jan 05 17:07:56 Jan 05 17:08:04 M4rtinK: +1 Jan 05 17:08:24 hmm, I would rather like this to stay on tmo :) Jan 05 17:08:39 i think all of us would want it on tmo Jan 05 17:08:50 Jolla? Jan 05 17:08:52 it would IMO get drowned in the xda traffic Jan 05 17:08:54 but with it now on xda i just have a feeling jolla prefer that option more Jan 05 17:09:06 Don;t count me in Jan 05 17:09:42 I like how you can just keep up with what is happening by watching the active thread list in upper left :) Jan 05 17:10:23 M4rtinK: yup that's whats best of tmo Jan 05 17:11:08 just checked out the xda forum Jan 05 17:11:20 * DocScrutinizer05 recalls his question during public meego foundation meeting "what about the bootloader? Will meego define it has to be open?" A: "the bootloader is not our domain, ask product manufs about that" Jan 05 17:11:29 they just have an useless listing of current portal articles on the right Jan 05 17:11:42 at least they support "thanks" :) Jan 05 17:11:42 thedead1440: AIUI Sailfish is Meltemi reborn. I don;t think we (maemos) have ever been a target user group for Meltemi Jan 05 17:12:00 freemangordon: thats evil :p Jan 05 17:12:12 let it be evel then Jan 05 17:12:14 :) Jan 05 17:12:20 *evil Jan 05 17:12:27 with that comment you brought them down several notches :p Jan 05 17:12:36 but sounds about true Jan 05 17:12:52 it doesn't have landscape for starters so yes quite true Jan 05 17:13:16 and it is focused on China ;) Jan 05 17:13:25 haha Jan 05 17:14:18 * thedead1440 feels so many evolution OSes this year yet none that are competent in all aspects Jan 05 17:14:36 stskeeps has the absolutely right *intentions*, and so far I see no indications that Jolla is not following his path Jan 05 17:14:39 well, I get about 90% of all downloads from China for the apps I have in Ovi :) Jan 05 17:14:54 we'll see if that is here to stay, though Jan 05 17:16:32 DocScrutinizer05: "intensions"? elaborate please Jan 05 17:16:41 *intentions Jan 05 17:16:41 what i'm worried about most is a possible tivoization of jolla's phone Jan 05 17:17:47 BTW I am not saying going Meltemi way is a bad think. It is just that we are not invited to the party ;) Jan 05 17:17:52 *thing Jan 05 17:18:20 freemangordon: we as in not including harmattan? Jan 05 17:18:36 including HARM Jan 05 17:19:20 meltemi been about downsizing maemo/linux to match featurephones aiui. I don't see this in mer7nemo/sailfish Jan 05 17:19:48 DocScrutinizer05: Where did you see enough sailfish to decide? Jan 05 17:20:00 well did you see meltemi doc? Jan 05 17:20:09 I see the definition of sailfish Jan 05 17:20:14 I saw a mediaplayer and something that looks like a dialer Jan 05 17:20:26 (in sailfish) Jan 05 17:20:36 IIRC Jolla stated (or was this just a rumor?) they are not interested in low-end due to profit margins ? Jan 05 17:20:40 freemangordon: thats all what they always show :D Jan 05 17:20:47 I know Jan 05 17:20:57 thedead1440: meltemi doc ? :) Jan 05 17:21:12 doc == DocScrutinizer05 :D Jan 05 17:21:35 no, it's not Jan 05 17:21:49 hehe :p Jan 05 17:22:21 M4rtinK: sure, that is what they say, but I wonder what is the market in China for high-end devices Jan 05 17:22:54 And what marings can you put there Jan 05 17:23:50 I guess that's irrelevant, since - I suspect - their VC comes from same companies, so they already got the money from that china adventure Jan 05 17:24:30 do they have the money? wasn't the amount just pledged but to be released only in stages Jan 05 17:24:52 Even if the conspiracy theory is true and it is the China govenrnment behind them I don;t believe the china authorities want to put high-end FOSS linux device in the slaves' hands Jan 05 17:25:15 and, as elaborated recently on this very channel - when any chinese company gets a completely open system for their phone, then it's easy for them to lock it down to their liking Jan 05 17:25:51 DocScrutinizer05: iirc Jolla is EU based Jan 05 17:25:58 sure Jan 05 17:26:01 so what? Jan 05 17:26:38 just thinking... if it will be that easy. Locking that is Jan 05 17:27:01 THough you are most probably right Jan 05 17:27:26 it *is* that easy, tivoization is a standard feature on every SOC nowadays that you simply need to activate Jan 05 17:28:19 et voila: completely open / FOSS system (or maybe not) that anyway no normal user can change Jan 05 17:28:23 see HARM Jan 05 17:28:33 tivoization of sub-standard OS is what Jolla might end up Jan 05 17:28:39 basically, though HARM is harmless (pun intended) Jan 05 17:28:44 sure. but I think the whole point is not running another OS on Jollaphone, but running sailfish on another devices Jan 05 17:29:08 ~tivoization Jan 05 17:29:20 ~wiki tivoization Jan 05 17:29:24 At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{POV|date=November 2012}} 'Tivoization' ({{IPAc-en|ˈ|t|iː|v|oʊ|ɨ|ˌ|z|eɪ|ʃ|ən}}) is the creation of a system that incorporates software under the terms of a copyleft software license (like the GPL), but uses hardware restrictions to prevent users from running modified versions of the software on that hardware. Richard Stallman coined the term in reference to TiVo's u Jan 05 17:29:54 hmm. thanks Jan 05 17:38:14 so, let's wait and see if Jolla's first phone comes with "sharks with lasers" Jan 05 17:38:59 anyway I can't see anything bad in sailfish yet, from the general policy aspect POV Jan 05 17:39:13 i can see from the UI though Jan 05 17:39:38 that's a completely different topic and I tend to agree here Jan 05 17:40:11 and if its limited to 9 apps multi-tasking, i wonder if it means actually a more locked down OS than thought Jan 05 17:40:12 it's probably too much "a phone" for me to become my cup of tea, much like HARM Jan 05 17:40:23 worse than harm imo Jan 05 17:43:15 well, it looks more like just an unfinished design than something really HARMful :) Jan 05 17:43:36 ^^^hopefully Jan 05 17:45:02 If they release it like this & the GUI is not open enough to extend by the community Jan 05 17:45:07 well, that would be bad :) Jan 05 17:47:18 I guess Jolla will publish a sailfish that's open but rudimentary, and whoever over at china will do exactly what Nokia did: add closed blob skin apps and other shite, call it a product and tivoize it Jan 05 17:47:53 so emperor with new clothes but maybe of a slightly lower quality? Jan 05 17:48:08 we'll see Jan 05 17:49:31 isn't that also how Android works ? Jan 05 17:49:37 indeed Jan 05 17:50:13 afaik, never used any android device Jan 05 17:52:29 ooh, and by the life of mine I can't remember stskeep's answer to my question how sailfish manages to deliver on their claim that it takes them one nightshift to port sailfish to arbitrary new hw. I suspected they are exploiting android drivers like RIL (for modem) and GFX etc Jan 05 17:52:57 afaik not all RIL implementations are open source Jan 05 17:53:48 I think some answer been "we use ofono" which doesn't really answer my question Jan 05 17:54:30 DocScrutinizer05: anything can be done in a nightshift, if you have enough people :P Jan 05 17:54:36 and enough coffee, ofc Jan 05 17:55:08 do somebody know if jabber account configuration UI is open? Jan 05 17:55:17 yeah, born after one nightshift, with 4600 mothers and 58m^3 coffe involved Jan 05 17:55:30 in that UI is missing config option for jabber resource priority Jan 05 17:55:49 kerio: no you can't Jan 05 17:55:52 but priority can be configured via some command line tool Jan 05 17:56:02 (nokia fixed that bug only on half) Jan 05 17:56:21 kerio: since conversation bandwidth between developers is limited to what human brain and mouth can do Jan 05 17:56:36 DocScrutinizer05: that's only because human birth is inefficient and not easily parallelizable Jan 05 17:56:56 just have a cluster of inexpensive moms Jan 05 17:56:58 so is writing code Jan 05 17:58:04 if one developer needs 5 minutes do write a function, you don't see 300 developers writing same function in one second Jan 05 17:58:18 but you can write multiple functions in 5 minutes! Jan 05 17:58:37 yes, but then they are not integrated Jan 05 17:58:58 they will be just a bunch of useless unrelated functions Jan 05 17:59:30 aka windows - SCNR Jan 05 18:01:47 and after those 5 min you got 300 functions that will take each single one of your devels 10 min to understand and another 15 minutes to integrate into own code, 300^2 * 25min Jan 05 18:02:25 have you considered the coffee, though? i don't see the coffee in your analysis Jan 05 18:02:26 /300 devels = still 150h Jan 05 18:02:46 ok, *coffe = 180h Jan 05 18:04:29 then first debugging cycle starts Jan 05 18:04:36 ;-P Jan 05 18:04:51 eventually your nightshift is over Jan 05 18:05:18 so... [2013-01-05 18:55:49] kerio: no you can't Jan 05 18:05:49 DocScrutinizer05: hrmpf Jan 05 18:05:56 ok, remove the coffee and add meth Jan 05 18:06:04 300h Jan 05 18:06:12 and 5 fatalities Jan 05 18:06:18 why is adding performance-enhancing drugs *increasing* the time? Jan 05 18:06:26 which might help to speed up the process ;-P Jan 05 18:07:07 because quality of code suffers a lot Jan 05 18:07:17 ok, remove the meth and add weed Jan 05 18:09:52 anybody did further tests with my little convenience thingie above? Jan 05 18:10:21 [2013-01-05 16:47:36] for your convenience: wget http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/DNS-TBD-.etc.hosts >>/etc/hosts Jan 05 18:10:38 DocScrutinizer05: you suck Jan 05 18:10:44 thanks Jan 05 18:10:58 wget saves files in the current directory Jan 05 18:11:05 all you're doing is appending a nice progress bar to /etc/hosts Jan 05 18:11:13 hmm, you're absolutely right Jan 05 18:11:17 use curl Jan 05 18:11:19 or the appropriate wget option Jan 05 18:11:38 $ wget http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/DNS-TBD-.etc.hosts -q -O - >> /etc/hosts Jan 05 18:11:40 I'll leave that up to you then ;-) Jan 05 18:11:41 run ^^^^ Jan 05 18:11:48 is curl preinstalled? Jan 05 18:11:56 Pali: why the -q? Jan 05 18:12:01 on my desktop PC? SURE! Jan 05 18:12:04 won't wget know to avoid outputting anything but the file? Jan 05 18:12:11 DocScrutinizer05: that's not what i meant and you know ti Jan 05 18:12:12 *it Jan 05 18:12:13 because you do not want to write some progressbar to /etc/hosts :D Jan 05 18:12:38 and busybox is stupid and can use stdout for progressbar.... Jan 05 18:12:50 ~messybox Jan 05 18:12:50 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Jan 05 18:13:04 hm, i have gnu wget Jan 05 18:13:11 in /usr/bin, what the hell Jan 05 18:13:34 no friggin messybox on my PC, and for sure I didn't think of N900 when I posted above workaround (though it should apply *in principle*) Jan 05 18:13:43 Pali: are you sure wget isn't just gnu wget? Jan 05 18:14:02 oh, it's not Jan 05 18:14:06 wget isn't messybox Jan 05 18:14:18 wget is just... not there? apparently Jan 05 18:14:28 kerio, there is also wget in some busybox Jan 05 18:14:30 wget isn't even installed per default on fremantle afaik Jan 05 18:14:41 there's wget in sdk/tools and in extras-devel Jan 05 18:14:48 but I do not know if nokia compiled wget aplet into our busybox Jan 05 18:14:49 not sure about other extras Jan 05 18:15:01 maybe bauer-messybox has wget Jan 05 18:15:09 std messybox doesn't Jan 05 18:15:10 wget: applet not found Jan 05 18:15:22 the powah busybox does, ofc Jan 05 18:16:08 and the progress bar is outputted to stderr, even in busybox wget Jan 05 18:16:13 wget comes with about 50% of pkgs in extras Jan 05 18:16:18 heh Jan 05 18:16:37 we can be happy, that we can install GNU utils Jan 05 18:16:45 on some routers there is *only* busybox Jan 05 18:16:55 we could've been happier if they were preinstalled :) Jan 05 18:17:04 or on androids there is no GNU... Jan 05 18:17:10 also, my router probably has enough space to install the whole coreutils Jan 05 18:17:29 and my router is tivoized :-( Jan 05 18:17:43 no way to install telnet or ssh... Jan 05 18:18:05 I got source code from cisco, but that tarballs are useless Jan 05 18:18:15 YIKES! http://maemo.org/packages/ looks but ugly without proper static.maemo.org Jan 05 18:18:26 router upgrade only signed firmware image... Jan 05 18:19:10 now how the heck would I access "normal" maemo.org with that etc/hosts in place? Jan 05 18:19:53 well, change the hosts file Jan 05 18:20:27 Pali: have you tried using the emergency tftp transfer thing? Jan 05 18:20:32 usually those aren't signed Jan 05 18:21:09 yeah, I already anticipated I'll need some shell cmd to swap /etc/hosts and /etc/hosts-maemobackup Jan 05 18:21:32 GRRRRRRR Jan 05 18:22:22 honestly, I'd appreciate some help on getting the best out of this inerim bandaid solution Jan 05 18:22:35 interim even Jan 05 18:22:55 /etc/hosts-new and /etc/hosts-old Jan 05 18:22:58 and then cp the one you want Jan 05 18:23:14 (also make sure to shift+refresh, firefox has its own dns cache too) Jan 05 18:23:37 yes, kerio. That's about the level of development I can do when I'm awake and put much effort in Jan 05 18:24:00 kerio: is it possible to de-activate firefox cache? Jan 05 18:24:00 clearly, it's because of not enough coffee Jan 05 18:24:10 Sicelo: i'm... not sure you really want that Jan 05 18:24:14 I'm more wondering if something could get improved in the patched etc/hosts Jan 05 18:24:17 besides, what would that even mean? Jan 05 18:24:28 do you want a dns request for each connection? Jan 05 18:24:38 if the server doesn't support http 1.1, you're in for a treat Jan 05 18:24:43 and a ban from your dns server, probably Jan 05 18:24:57 i could probably run dnsmasq Jan 05 18:25:28 Sicelo: network.dnsCacheExpiration 0 Jan 05 18:25:31 says some random website Jan 05 18:25:46 the issue is.. my internet it terrible... and firefox doesn't seem to take well to that. while other applications don't seem to mind too much Jan 05 18:27:13 to be fair, google dns is probably faster than firefox's cache Jan 05 18:28:44 hmm, that key doesn't seem to exist on 17.0.1 Jan 05 18:28:52 you have to add it Jan 05 18:28:54 or someting Jan 05 18:28:56 *something Jan 05 18:28:57 oh Jan 05 18:28:59 there's a GracePeriod too Jan 05 18:29:01 i set both to 0 Jan 05 18:29:04 it doesn't seem to be slower Jan 05 18:29:09 (osx does dns caching too) Jan 05 18:34:58 kerio, ftfp accept only signed image too :-( Jan 05 18:34:58 *tftp Jan 05 18:35:32 My router is kind of similar, except its web admin interface full of shell injection holes (sprintf(s, "iptables ... %s ...", from_http_form), system(s)) and that's the only way to run anything unofficial on it. (Plus there's no sources for it anywhere.) Jan 05 18:36:13 (The manufacturer firmware has a telnet admin interface that has a "sh" command to drop into busybox shell, but this ISP-customized version has been changed to not accept the same accounts/passwords the web admin interface does.) Jan 05 18:37:09 I'm stuck on my DSL router, because it has a comedy but Jan 05 18:37:11 bug Jan 05 18:37:40 the exchange can request the modem train with a given SNR. Jan 05 18:38:18 sometimes, for a reason I don't understand, it asks for 20dB or so ,margin, which kills speed. Jan 05 18:38:43 the router should only be able to be set to a higher margin than is requested. Jan 05 18:39:23 but, if asked for a margin of 65530, it in fact sets less due to an overflow error. Jan 05 19:20:27 fizzie, I tried more ping or similar injections, but nothing worked... Jan 05 19:20:48 seems that cisco devs doing their job very good... Jan 05 19:22:30 Pali: well, it's usually linksys that likes users running their own firmware :) Jan 05 19:41:42 http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ irrelevant new rescueOS release with tiny changes in case someone cares. Jan 05 19:42:29 i do :-) Jan 05 19:42:45 ^_^ Jan 05 19:43:00 waaaaaaaaaaait Jan 05 19:43:02 a menu? :s Jan 05 19:43:17 hmm? Jan 05 19:43:22 what is this, Super Happy Fun Recovery Time OS? Jan 05 19:43:41 >:c Jan 05 19:43:48 just 3 yes/no questions. Jan 05 19:44:17 (the scripts to do those three things later are still in /rescueOS, right?) Jan 05 19:44:28 of course. Jan 05 19:46:29 NIN101: where should the wifi firmware be stored in? /lib/firmware ? Jan 05 19:47:08 yes. Jan 05 19:47:23 NIN101: also, do you remember if there's a way to type ESC? Jan 05 19:47:41 no clue Jan 05 19:49:45 hm, can the image be mounted read-write? Jan 05 19:49:54 yep Jan 05 19:50:20 oh, nope Jan 05 19:50:47 mount tmpfs over /lib/firmware Jan 05 19:51:12 ok in /rescueOS there is also a script which steals everything automatically from maemo. Jan 05 19:51:21 NIN101: no, i wanted to modify the .img Jan 05 19:53:39 well in the end it's a cramfs imagine which you can unpack somehow and then recreate. Jan 05 19:54:02 yeah, yeah Jan 05 19:54:16 it's not that important anyway Jan 05 19:54:25 if you blow up the maemo rootfs you have to reflash anyway Jan 05 19:55:01 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1311223#post1311223 Jan 05 19:55:06 another CA down Jan 05 19:55:34 yeah, the broken concept of CAs is falling apart. Jan 05 19:56:45 haha, TÜRKTRUST is the first cert in the list in Settings Jan 05 19:58:36 Pali: which parameters does NOLO give to the kernel when it's loaded and booted with an initrd via flasher? Jan 05 20:34:13 kerio, same params as for normal kernel Jan 05 20:35:25 Pali: how does it know to use the initrd then? Jan 05 20:36:11 it append atag about initfs existance (with address in memory) Jan 05 20:36:30 i see Jan 05 20:36:47 ...so i should be able to use uboot without a special cmdline, right? Jan 05 20:37:28 why not? Jan 05 20:37:47 idk, the item file *you* gave me had "rootdelay root=/dev/ram0" as the cmdline Jan 05 20:38:25 if kernel has not compiled root= param (to boot from initfs) then you need to provide it Jan 05 20:38:46 otherwise kernel trying to boot from mtd rootfs ubifs... Jan 05 20:38:52 note that (last) uboot generating atags Jan 05 20:39:06 it not reusing them from nolo Jan 05 20:39:18 oh, apparently that cmdline is specified in rescueOS's documentation Jan 05 20:39:20 (it only look for bootreason, bootmode and hwrevision) Jan 05 20:39:31 flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0" Jan 05 20:39:58 you can also use 0xFFFF :-) Jan 05 20:42:11 * Sicelo makes a note to test 0xFFFF the next time he plays with kernels Jan 05 20:42:57 kerio: cmdline is not specified in that kernel's config, therefore needs to be specified Jan 05 20:43:11 yeah, i was just wondering where that cmdline came from Jan 05 20:43:13 the config is someone on the site Jan 05 20:43:19 *somewhere Jan 05 20:47:17 indeed, i've seen it now Jan 05 20:48:13 i'm now wondering what the difference between rootdleay & rootwait is, if any Jan 05 20:48:18 *delay Jan 05 20:48:28 rootdelay= is a fixed wait Jan 05 20:48:40 rootwait will wait (up until a timeout? idk) for the rootfs to come up and then it goes Jan 05 20:48:50 ah. :) Jan 05 21:22:30 hello! where I can find n900 linux kernel config? Jan 05 21:22:39 patches, source Jan 05 21:24:30 minde: apt-src should work Jan 05 21:24:51 ...if it was installed Jan 05 21:24:59 i suppose it's installed in scratchbox Jan 05 21:25:22 Okay, thanks Jan 05 21:58:35 hello there Jan 05 21:59:25 Lately, I managed to put my hand on expensivfe (whole 2 euro ;P) usb-ethernet adaptor. It seems, that modules for it are already present in kernel-power, as it lights up and is recognized properly: Jan 05 22:00:09 [ 1837.984039] usb 1-1: Product: USB 2.0 10/100M Ethernet Adaptor Jan 05 22:00:38 that's irrelevant, it's just taking power Jan 05 22:00:45 and the name is part of the usb specs in general i think Jan 05 22:00:50 it lights up, and device on the other side (notebook) detects RJ45 being plugged in (it doesn't, when adaptor isn't enumerated by N900) Jan 05 22:00:55 hm Jan 05 22:01:05 still, no interface created Jan 05 22:01:10 hm, plugged in and powered but not enumerated? Jan 05 22:01:31 Estel_: could you try it on a linux box and check what module gets loaded? Jan 05 22:01:36 it wouldn't print "product: USB (...)" without being enumerated Jan 05 22:01:37 I've never had much luck with $2 usb ethernet adapters even on PC.. Jan 05 22:01:53 ShadowJK, yea, I saw your comment about davicom Jan 05 22:02:01 although, this one works well on PC Jan 05 22:02:10 lol what, I was just going to mention that one Jan 05 22:02:20 and it isn't davicom methinks (no davicom module auto-load, and it's part of kp too) Jan 05 22:02:43 ShadowJK, I've done my homework and seen every TMO thread about those dongles :P Jan 05 22:02:59 anyway, I noticed something that "may" be related, in syslog: Jan 05 22:03:29 http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?4a18a904742caf00#OwWTIzzrsU0KZB2Wlei7+8B5RS7nzqEvHlIXny+dJpU= Jan 05 22:04:01 eithers module is incomplete, wrong one is loaded, or I have no idea Jan 05 22:04:40 funniest thing - once, I got interface "uplink0" (sic!) created, no idea how and why, wasn't able to reproduce. It wasn't working in any way, too Jan 05 22:05:12 peterleinched (in thread where ShadowJK commented on davicom) was able to get eth0 on his davicom, and ping it locally, no remote ping, though Jan 05 22:05:33 I'm not even on step of interface up. Any ideas, how to force this cheap bastard to work? Jan 05 22:05:52 kerio, I haven't ignored your idea of checking module from linuxbox, will do that too Jan 05 22:05:56 Check what module gets loaded on pc where it works? Jan 05 22:06:45 sadly, had tested in on windoze only, till now. Lack of linuxboxes around... :( will make PITA for myself and download liveCD and run frolm it Jan 05 22:07:01 aptosid should be recent enough, methinks, to contain such modules? Jan 05 22:07:16 (no linuxboxes around - joys of travelling) Jan 05 22:07:57 i suppose so Jan 05 22:08:13 * Estel_ is noob when it comes on using USB-> eth adapters anyway, so not even sure how to test it properly on linuxbox, after setting one up from livecd on some PC around here Jan 05 22:08:30 connect other computer, configure static ipv4, send ping and other stuff Jan 05 22:09:45 first google result claims davicom Jan 05 22:10:08 BTW, cheap buying rox - from same supplier, I got RJ45/RJ11/BCN cable tester. Noticed, that it fails to check shield on RJ45. Disassembled. Well, it couldn't work, as there was no indication diode at all, for ground, neither on master or remote Jan 05 22:10:25 hahaha Jan 05 22:10:31 ShadowJK, hm. Quite possible. Why the hell it doesn't pick up daviom driver from KP? Jan 05 22:10:39 Estel_: try loading it manually Jan 05 22:10:40 But the davicom driver in powerkernel doesn't have those IDs Jan 05 22:10:41 unknown PID, even for driver? Jan 05 22:10:58 i'm not sure what's supposed to load modules Jan 05 22:11:04 ShadowJK, manual loading should work, or unknown ID will render it futile? Jan 05 22:11:55 the module doesn't have an option to try drive arbitrary devices Jan 05 22:11:56 (ending story with shield check on cable tester - just soldered 2 diodes there, and it wprks as it should - funny enough, they were lacking on brand new, sealed device) Jan 05 22:12:14 hm Jan 05 22:13:22 ShadowJK, sorry for lame question - does your last sentence mean "manual loading won't work"? Jan 05 22:13:39 ...and only way is to recompile module with my device's ID included? Jan 05 22:13:55 yes Jan 05 22:14:04 (not sure though, but if it's really davicom, it's rather recent one) Jan 05 22:14:14 you need 1) to load the module or make sure that it's loaded automatically, and 2) to make sure the module knows how to work Jan 05 22:14:29 usually drivers for usb devices have a way to force them to work with a certain device Jan 05 22:14:39 but it's module-specific i suppose Jan 05 22:15:16 usually devices more well known to come with batshit crazy random IDs Jan 05 22:16:20 davicom should be known to come with those, well enough :P Jan 05 22:18:42 ping Pali Jan 05 22:19:02 well, it's davicom for sure (after some googling) Jan 05 22:20:34 JP1082 chip, whatever it means Jan 05 22:20:50 fun fact - seller claims that it's compatible with Android Jan 05 22:21:24 and that android (= linux) drikvers are included in this funny mini-cd, included with package Jan 05 22:21:59 * Estel_ is wondering, if those could be of any use Jan 05 22:22:14 which drivers are those? Jan 05 22:22:43 JP1082 :P sounds like bullshit name, investigating... Jan 05 22:23:01 funny enough, android kids claim to sucesfully use this very model on their devices Jan 05 22:23:11 (google result in some discussions) Jan 05 22:23:55 time to put this optical USB drive iinto use P;) Jan 05 22:24:01 * Estel_ is connecting it to N900) Jan 05 22:25:27 first hit on google for me found some driver written by davicom Jan 05 22:26:36 same here, as ultra-slim optical drive readers are unabe to read mini-cd's... Jan 05 22:26:49 so it's basically a trashdisk for me ;) Jan 05 22:26:53 so i've "bricked" my N900 to the 5 dots loading screens. supposedly because i have a .profile in my home folder Jan 05 22:27:05 warfaren: it's not because of that, probably Jan 05 22:27:20 ...well, maybe Jan 05 22:27:23 well it could be because that's what i found.. someone else had the same problem on google Jan 05 22:27:29 and he deleted that file and it fixed it Jan 05 22:27:32 ShadowJK, could you check if ID there match my one? Jan 05 22:27:46 so my question is can i mount the file system to my laptop over USB? Jan 05 22:28:05 /dev/sdb and sdc appears as i connect it but mount just loads for a while and then doesn't recognize it Jan 05 22:28:15 Yes the first search for your id gave me that Jan 05 22:28:18 wait, i can do it myself, too. Sorryp got confused for a while Jan 05 22:28:47 or rather someone editing davicom drivers for your id Jan 05 22:28:58 so now the "easy" task of compiling it for kernel-power, without dev enviromnent (or even stable linuxbox) around :P Jan 05 22:29:03 warfaren: 5 dots loading screen and then what? Jan 05 22:29:05 reboot? Jan 05 22:29:10 nope just stuck infintely Jan 05 22:29:13 or is there any better way? Jan 05 22:29:16 hm Jan 05 22:29:36 i was stupid enough to run bash from .profile to make it my default shell. didn't realise it would run .profile on boot Jan 05 22:29:46 probably it just launches the shell and then gets nowhere Jan 05 22:29:55 warfaren: /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc are the two LUNs that usb mass storage uses, but nothing's actually attached to them Jan 05 22:30:02 i see. Jan 05 22:30:04 so it's no use going from there Jan 05 22:30:17 okay. what about the flashing mode you get by holding U? Jan 05 22:30:19 oh well, time for rescueOS Jan 05 22:30:26 warfaren: won't let you access, only write - afaik Jan 05 22:30:28 ~rescueos Jan 05 22:30:29 it has been said that rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ Jan 05 22:30:41 you need a working flasher-3.5 Jan 05 22:30:54 what's that? hardware or a program? Jan 05 22:31:10 warfaren, while I understand urge to have shell that you're used to, isn't it better to use busybox-power? ash/bash compliance on scripts you may want to use/share is PITA Jan 05 22:31:20 the flashing program from nokia Jan 05 22:31:32 Estel_: busybox-power's sh is still a piece of crap for interactive usage Jan 05 22:31:49 Estel_: you're probably right. i just got the phone (used) and wanted to see if i could make it my default shell that way.. heh... Jan 05 22:31:53 warfaren: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Jan 05 22:31:54 really just been messing around Jan 05 22:31:57 OTOH, haven't seen any thing that bash is capable of, that couldn't be done using busybox-power and it's toolset Jan 05 22:32:01 warfaren: oh, hold on Jan 05 22:32:11 it's easier to just type "bash" :P Jan 05 22:32:13 will you lose data if you reflash? Jan 05 22:32:18 ShadowJK: it's much easier to chsh Jan 05 22:32:22 and not have to do anything Jan 05 22:32:24 zsh Jan 05 22:32:26 warfaren, DocScrutinizer05 posted guide "somewhere" for bash lovers to make it default shell without putting it as boottime one... Jan 05 22:32:38 still, isn't worth the effort, IMO Jan 05 22:32:43 but it can be set as the default shell :( Jan 05 22:32:45 yeah i can live without it really Jan 05 22:32:45 for both user and root Jan 05 22:32:48 okay Jan 05 22:32:55 warfaren: you said you got the phone used, right? Jan 05 22:32:58 when? Jan 05 22:33:03 and did you reflash? Jan 05 22:33:04 yep.. a few days ago Jan 05 22:33:17 do you have data that you don't want to lose at the moment on it? Jan 05 22:33:29 nope not yet just wanted to try it out for a few days before i put any work into it Jan 05 22:33:37 in case it had any hardware defects so i could return it Jan 05 22:33:55 warfaren: well then it's easy Jan 05 22:33:59 just reflash to the factory conditions :) Jan 05 22:34:05 so yeah well if i could mount /home/user/MyDocs and grab stuff off of there before reflashing it would be nice Jan 05 22:34:16 oh so you do have data there Jan 05 22:34:18 but i assume it might not let me mount that very easily? Jan 05 22:34:20 just a little Jan 05 22:34:27 worst case i'll forget about it Jan 05 22:34:37 nah, it's still possible - and via usb mass storage, too Jan 05 22:34:46 alright Jan 05 22:34:46 first you need to install flasher-3.5 Jan 05 22:34:54 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Jan 05 22:35:02 okay thanks ill look into it Jan 05 22:35:12 im on ubuntu 10.04 btw Jan 05 22:35:45 blacklist cdc_phonet too Jan 05 22:36:41 okay. lsmod tells me that is currently loaded Jan 05 22:37:13 add "blacklist cdc_phonet" in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf Jan 05 22:37:20 so i modprobe -r it first? so i dont have to reboot? Jan 05 22:37:27 also unload it, yes Jan 05 22:37:30 ok Jan 05 22:38:00 then install flasher-3.5 Jan 05 22:38:34 maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb i assume? Jan 05 22:39:23 that's correct, yes Jan 05 22:39:36 i hope you can run x86 binaries Jan 05 22:39:54 yep i'm on an x86 32 bit install Jan 05 22:40:01 ShadowJK, as I haven't done it before - while searching for drivers, I should use vendor ID, productID, or both? Jan 05 22:40:22 alright flasher-3.5 installed Jan 05 22:40:38 as for "haven't done it before" I mean recomopiling random drivers for kernel-power with modded ID + requesting inclusion in kernel-power :P Jan 05 22:41:21 or the important bit is combined ID, aka fe6_9700 in my case? Jan 05 22:42:11 both Jan 05 22:42:22 warfaren: how much do you care about the stuff in MyDocs? Jan 05 22:42:37 i just copypasted the idvendor and ifproduct from your paste into google Jan 05 22:42:38 enough to give it a try if it doesn't take too long Jan 05 22:42:57 warfaren: http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ Jan 05 22:43:00 * Estel_ nods Jan 05 22:43:07 download 2.6.37 and rescueOS-initrd-0.5.4.img Jan 05 22:43:37 make sure your N900 is turned off Jan 05 22:44:01 yep. also i think this is good to do for future reference. in case i mess it up again and have some really important stuff on there that time Jan 05 22:44:04 then run flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0" Jan 05 22:44:06 on your box, as root Jan 05 22:44:14 right Jan 05 22:44:28 connect USB yet? Jan 05 22:44:30 where initrd.img is the .img you just downloaded Jan 05 22:44:32 no, not yet Jan 05 22:44:34 ok Jan 05 22:44:40 flasher-3.5 will tell you "suitable device not found, waiting" Jan 05 22:44:42 I have two n900s here. both run the latest CSSU testing and they have identical sources.lists. one of them can't install fbreader because it can't find libfribidi0. there are not even any results for apt-cache search libfribidi0. what is going on here? Jan 05 22:44:51 then you hold U, and attach the usb cable Jan 05 22:44:59 (hold U on the n900 keyboard) Jan 05 22:45:08 yeah Jan 05 22:45:20 it should load it up Jan 05 22:45:28 sweet Jan 05 22:45:33 it'll ask you some things regarding networking, say no - you don't care about that Jan 05 22:45:54 that's so cool. so i just streamed the kernel over USB? like PXE booting? :P Jan 05 22:46:02 you'll want to run /rescueOS/mass-storage-enable.sh Jan 05 22:46:31 for reference, if your n900 doesn't have an english keyboard: "/" is fn+v Jan 05 22:46:50 actually i have a swedish one and that's what it really is Jan 05 22:46:52 (only in rescueOS - the proper maemo install will of course follow the printed layout) Jan 05 22:47:02 well, that's convenient :) Jan 05 22:47:07 yup! Jan 05 22:47:11 to TAB for completion, use ctrl+i Jan 05 22:47:21 was just about to ask yer :D Jan 05 22:47:21 (it also works on most terminals everywhere on linux!) Jan 05 22:47:23 mind reader :D Jan 05 22:47:34 nicee thanks i didn't know that one Jan 05 22:47:36 once you've enabled usb mass storage you should get two partitions exported Jan 05 22:47:47 you can access them on your computer as you please Jan 05 22:48:11 hm that shellscript gave me some errors Jan 05 22:48:15 once you're done copying your data, and this is something that i should've told you before, start downloading the latest release of the flashable images Jan 05 22:48:18 oh, that's not good Jan 05 22:48:22 which errors? Jan 05 22:48:35 g_file_storage gadget: No serial-number string provided! Jan 05 22:48:44 meh, probably harmless Jan 05 22:48:54 do you see the partitions on your ubuntu box? Jan 05 22:49:01 g_file_storage gadget-lun0: unable to open backing file: /dev/mmcblk1p2 Jan 05 22:49:02 and Jan 05 22:49:14 hrmpf :s Jan 05 22:49:30 modprobe: 'kernel/drivers/usb/gadget/g_file_storage.ko': unknown symbol in module or invalid parameter Jan 05 22:49:39 ill check if the devices appeared Jan 05 22:49:44 you don't have an SD inserted, do you? Jan 05 22:49:47 nope Jan 05 22:49:56 and no i only have sda know which is my hdd Jan 05 22:50:07 NIN101: bugfix pls Jan 05 22:50:25 warfaren: ugly fix: ln -s /dev/mmcblk0p1 /dev/mmcblk1p1 Jan 05 22:50:35 ln -s /dev/mmcblk0p2 /dev/mmcblk1p2 Jan 05 22:50:40 actually no, the other way around Jan 05 22:50:43 you know what i mean Jan 05 22:50:45 any idea what could cause an n900s to not be able to find a package that an n900 with an identical sources.list can find? Jan 05 22:50:49 no wait, it's right Jan 05 22:50:58 BCMM: are you using apt-get or HAM? Jan 05 22:51:38 warfaren: the issue is that the internal memory is mmcblk0 if there's no SD, and mmcblk1 if there is Jan 05 22:51:48 i see Jan 05 22:51:49 kerio: either Jan 05 22:51:50 sorry for making you type all this stuff :( Jan 05 22:52:04 no worries im just very happy to get help! :D Jan 05 22:52:15 now i got the same error again but about mmcblk1p1 this time Jan 05 22:52:16 kerio: i can't install fbreader on one of them because it depends on libzlibrary which depends on libfribidi0 which can't be found Jan 05 22:52:45 i only ran the second thing you wrote. thought the first was a mistype? Jan 05 22:52:50 or was i supposed to do both? Jan 05 22:52:50 warfaren: no, both Jan 05 22:52:52 right Jan 05 22:53:01 you need to make the mmcblk1p1 and mmcblk1p2 devices appear somehow :) Jan 05 22:53:08 kerio: same in ham or apt-get. apt-cache search libfribidi0 has no results on the one with the problem. seems that libfribidi0 was in pr1.2 so should pretty much just be available right? Jan 05 22:53:21 yup that did it :D mounted them too! Jan 05 22:53:22 BCMM: indeed, i have it in some nokia repos Jan 05 22:53:26 warfaren: phew Jan 05 22:53:49 ok, copy off your data and then do whatever with the n900, we're going to reflash it completely now Jan 05 22:54:03 is it read only? Jan 05 22:54:04 which is something that should be done, on a used device Jan 05 22:54:10 i'd kinda like to try and rename .profile Jan 05 22:54:14 just to see if that helps? Jan 05 22:54:26 warfaren: it should be rw, and it would probably fix your issue Jan 05 22:54:31 i see Jan 05 22:54:34 but really, if it's a second-hand device you really want to reflash it Jan 05 22:54:44 i just wanna know for sure so that i don't run into the same thing again you know? Jan 05 22:54:50 kerio: just checked with teh working n900 and apt-get reinstall; i can still download it. i might just copy the .deb to the other phone but it feels like there is an underlying problem here... Jan 05 22:54:59 i dont mind hitting page up a few times and following your steps again :) Jan 05 22:55:09 how can i find out which exact repo i installed a package from? Jan 05 22:55:19 warfaren: i'm confident that it would fix it Jan 05 22:55:25 alright Jan 05 22:55:27 if you say so Jan 05 22:55:32 and i'm confident that you shouldn't run programs that don't quit in your .profile Jan 05 22:55:40 okay :P Jan 05 22:56:13 now, as i was saying Jan 05 22:56:28 i really wanna try though because i've been messing around with a lot of other stuff and haven't rebooted for 23 hours Jan 05 22:56:33 download http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Jan 05 22:56:41 but yeah i should certainly do a full reflash after that Jan 05 22:56:44 i was planning on it anyways Jan 05 22:56:46 then do it Jan 05 22:56:50 okay Jan 05 22:56:59 move or change .profile, umount everything, reboot from the n900 Jan 05 22:57:03 (unplug the usb cable too) Jan 05 22:57:23 okay halt or just hold power button? Jan 05 22:57:32 type halt Jan 05 22:57:34 ok Jan 05 22:57:44 i'm not sure that the power button does anything, in rescueOS Jan 05 22:57:55 i see Jan 05 22:58:36 yup that did it alright Jan 05 22:58:42 no more infinite loading dots Jan 05 22:59:37 hm why does it go into first time setup though? because of power loss when i removed battery? Jan 05 22:59:53 yeah, that's one of the common problems of the n900 Jan 05 23:00:03 the battery that holds the clock is awful, and fails after a year or so Jan 05 23:00:21 okay. so yeah now that the phone is booted normally should i just backup my data from here instead or do you recommend me going back into rescueos? Jan 05 23:00:25 i see Jan 05 23:00:30 just backup your data normally i guess Jan 05 23:00:42 kerio: seems again some of those mmcblkX issues Jan 05 23:00:43 in the meantime, download those two images Jan 05 23:00:44 kerio, it's not about battery quality Jan 05 23:00:46 when sd card is inserte dor not Jan 05 23:00:54 NIN101: it's not an issue, it's known behaviour Jan 05 23:01:00 yeah. Jan 05 23:01:01 weird behaviour, admittedly Jan 05 23:01:02 it was bug in stock kernel- as result, goldcap was never recharged Jan 05 23:01:09 Estel_: really? :o Jan 05 23:01:15 okay, i never really plugged the usb cable in before. will it let me access to the entire root filesystem like in rescueos? or just MyDocs? Jan 05 23:01:17 so i can expect mine to keep working? Jan 05 23:01:21 that why most of them die after a year or so Jan 05 23:01:29 warfaren: just MyDocs, if you enable the usb mass storage mode Jan 05 23:01:30 well, kernel-power (latest or so) fixes it Jan 05 23:01:40 Estel_: and of course they can't be charged once they die Jan 05 23:01:44 but obviously it won't revive dead goldcaps Jan 05 23:01:49 yea ;) Jan 05 23:01:49 okay Jan 05 23:01:51 so i can expect mine to last, neat Jan 05 23:01:58 well ill let you know when i'm done backing stuff up Jan 05 23:02:00 warfaren: other common issues: microusb port failing Jan 05 23:02:10 so treat it gently Jan 05 23:02:13 oh yeah i've read about that on wikipedia Jan 05 23:02:16 well, probably yes, although it could lose most of it's capacity, in pre-fix times, even if it's alive Jan 05 23:02:38 warfaren, instead of acknowleding usb problem, just solder it down as per dr_frost_dk's thread Jan 05 23:02:42 and the cellmo could have some solder issues and it could eventually stop working Jan 05 23:02:43 my N8's micro usb is all loose and this phone is from the same era so i expect it to be of the same quality Jan 05 23:02:59 warfaren: if you can find your way around a soldering iron, solder it down Jan 05 23:03:08 Estel_: got a link for that? i'd like to bookmark it. and solder my N8's port if it's similar Jan 05 23:03:12 ~usb-fix Jan 05 23:03:13 kerio: so as far as I remember, mmcblk0 = sd card on other systems than maemo because on maemo some udev script is in place. but if sd card is not present, then emmc is mmcblk0, correct? Jan 05 23:03:14 well, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Jan 05 23:03:15 warfaren, microUSB problem - in every device - is that it's SMD Jan 05 23:03:24 i see Jan 05 23:03:29 NIN101: yep Jan 05 23:03:45 they fucked that up good and proper Jan 05 23:03:50 microusb can have more mating cycles, but it's all for nothing, as they have switched to smd for microUSB since miniUSB Jan 05 23:03:51 Estel_; i thought it was eventually discovered that Nolo sets up the charge of backupbat Jan 05 23:04:19 ShadowJK, hm? I'm not aware of that, last time I checked it was considered soft bug? Jan 05 23:04:29 I might have missed some new "discoveries" Jan 05 23:04:30 ok so because I have my sd card always inserted I never stumbled upon this problem. Also because rescueOS was originally an sd card only system, then the initrd appeared :S Jan 05 23:04:34 hm, i remember something like that, yes Jan 05 23:04:57 I think N800 miniusb was smd too, but you dont use it for charging.. Jan 05 23:05:15 Also, I've seen current era Lumias with broken usb ports :) Jan 05 23:05:22 :) Jan 05 23:05:27 so the problem is for sure not yetfixed Jan 05 23:05:28 warfaren: have you put a sim card in yet? Jan 05 23:05:37 if you haven't, don't Jan 05 23:05:38 btw is the micro usb port the only charging port on the N900? i know nokia has this super tiny round hole for charging on some devices. i just wonder if i didnt find it or if it doesn't have it? Jan 05 23:05:43 ah no i haven't Jan 05 23:05:45 don't plan on either Jan 05 23:05:52 my latest idea - checking, if closest part of PCB under N900's microUSB doesn't contain inside-paths... Jan 05 23:05:52 reflash, then don't put your sim in until you remove the "cherry" package Jan 05 23:05:54 It only has microusb port Jan 05 23:05:55 oh, really? :o Jan 05 23:06:01 drilling it with 0.5 mm drill Jan 05 23:06:08 then i guess that the possible modem problem won't be a problem for you Jan 05 23:06:20 yeah i have a few other phones already that i am kinda attached to Jan 05 23:06:26 i just want this phone as a mini computer really Jan 05 23:06:28 with wifi Jan 05 23:06:33 warfaren: suit yourself - it's not that good of a phone anyway Jan 05 23:06:37 and mounting microUSB with solder-through, soldering it to ground plane on other side Jan 05 23:06:39 alright Jan 05 23:06:42 mobile data is useful though Jan 05 23:06:45 yeahh Jan 05 23:06:47 and you should still remove the "cherry" package Jan 05 23:06:52 okay, what does it do? Jan 05 23:07:05 can't agree, with correct software, mobile computer called N900;) becomes best phone suite too Jan 05 23:07:07 it's some nokia sms subscription service bullshit Jan 05 23:07:23 i see Jan 05 23:07:32 it will eventually send an international sms to nokia Jan 05 23:07:44 removing the "cherry" package prevents that Jan 05 23:07:44 i have the N9 too Jan 05 23:07:46 only once per reflash, but still it's shit Jan 05 23:07:57 but i really wanted the keyboard.. hehe.. and N950's are too hard to get Jan 05 23:08:12 warfaren, belive me, N950 are not that great Jan 05 23:08:23 okay Jan 05 23:08:24 not usb hostmode, no microSD... Jan 05 23:08:32 oh yeah.. Jan 05 23:08:37 crappy capacity screen, no FM transmitter... Jan 05 23:08:45 freakin' irritating system Jan 05 23:08:45 Estel_: does the N9 have a fmtx? Jan 05 23:08:58 yeah i'm really impressed with the hardware of the N900. so much more modular than the N9 Jan 05 23:09:01 kerio, sure, but it is surface mounted and not connected to antenna :P Jan 05 23:09:07 yeah, fremantle is much better than harmattan Jan 05 23:09:09 i.e. leg of fm chip for transmitting Jan 05 23:09:09 Estel_: what? :s Jan 05 23:09:13 no microsd on 950? o.O didnt know Jan 05 23:09:14 hahaha nice Jan 05 23:09:14 isn't connected to antenna Jan 05 23:09:18 so it's even worse than the n900? Jan 05 23:09:19 kinda like the N8 but with an inferior camera :P Jan 05 23:09:20 jaska, yea Jan 05 23:09:31 kerio - no much chances for fixing fmtx Jan 05 23:09:39 kerio: yeah i've already noticed that. i like harmattan but fremantle is just wow Jan 05 23:09:42 i.e. as easy as increasing ram on N900 :P Jan 05 23:09:55 i even started googling for if you could install it on the N9 :P Jan 05 23:09:59 Estel_: don't go there :( Jan 05 23:10:11 warfaren: are you downloading VANILLA.bin and COMBINED.bin in the meantime? Jan 05 23:10:22 warfaren, there is Mer and Nemo, that you can install on N9/50, but hardware adaptation isn't full and probably wont be Jan 05 23:10:26 * ShadowJK suspects usb ports will break even if they were throughhole Jan 05 23:10:40 since usb ports are fundamentally shit Jan 05 23:10:42 kerio: yeah they finished up some time ago Jan 05 23:10:42 Estel_: and besides, they're still annoying :) Jan 05 23:10:52 ShadowJK, why? most of the time, they break due to side-moves Jan 05 23:11:29 well, there was a Cordia project (hildon-like UI for Mer), but it's never going to be complete, belive me ;) Jan 05 23:11:37 I mean, I've broken 2 usb ports on my *PC*, and those ports were bolted to aluminium frame Jan 05 23:11:47 maybe lipstick/Nemo will allow to mimic hildon feats, but... Jan 05 23:11:51 ShadowJK, lol Jan 05 23:12:03 I have never, ever, seen regular size USB port becoming broken Jan 05 23:12:13 seriously Jan 05 23:12:29 I mean regular way, that doesn't include kicking machine in rage by someone Jan 05 23:12:31 hammering Jan 05 23:12:36 throwing from window etc Jan 05 23:13:10 well, I lied a little - I have seen one spring inside big USB port breaking, for no reason. Fixed it easily. Jan 05 23:13:10 it's this problem: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2388 Jan 05 23:14:13 haha Jan 05 23:14:14 ShadowJK: heh, i knew exactly which comic that was Jan 05 23:14:19 before clicking the link Jan 05 23:14:25 :) Jan 05 23:14:27 it's weird, i thought it only worked with xkcd Jan 05 23:14:42 well, call me insane, but I *always* check big USB plug alligment before plugging Jan 05 23:14:55 kinda sub-consciouss habit Jan 05 23:15:07 Need to get an endoscope :) Jan 05 23:15:22 they seem hard to figure out with just touch Jan 05 23:15:25 oh btw, i love how RescueOS actually shows me some real text when it's booting. is that easy to do on the regular OS aswell instead of the loading dots? Jan 05 23:15:34 warfaren: eeeh, kinda Jan 05 23:15:37 though for musb you can feel for the two hooks Jan 05 23:15:38 : ) and I always remember how they're alligned on back of old PC's Jan 05 23:15:48 warfaren, sure Jan 05 23:15:55 kernel-power + fbcon Jan 05 23:16:05 okay cool. would like to look into it later if i have the time Jan 05 23:16:08 Estel_: not quite, you also need a different cmdline Jan 05 23:16:13 fbcon = frame buffer console? Jan 05 23:16:16 yea Jan 05 23:16:18 yep Jan 05 23:16:23 kerio, hm? Jan 05 23:16:41 what does kernel-power do btw? is it kinda like inception for harmattan? Jan 05 23:16:42 you need to delete the progress dots, modprobe fbcon early, and set up the console on the appropriate tty Jan 05 23:16:47 warfaren, no Jan 05 23:16:52 warfaren: nah, it's just a different kernel with a lot more capabilities Jan 05 23:16:56 i see Jan 05 23:17:01 it's bugfixes from mainstream + backports from higher kernel versions Jan 05 23:17:07 nice Jan 05 23:17:09 + fixing maemo's kernel specific bugs Jan 05 23:17:12 = must have Jan 05 23:17:14 ah Jan 05 23:17:30 fixes a couple hardware things, adds overclocking capabilities (to never use), and adds neat stuff like iptables Jan 05 23:17:43 i heard it breaks qtirreco though? Jan 05 23:17:46 or bridge support Jan 05 23:17:53 warfaren: pierogi is better Jan 05 23:18:00 okay cool :) Jan 05 23:18:07 besides, i don't think it does Jan 05 23:18:12 not to mention enabling thumb (if mixed with cssu-thumb), that is closest thing to RAM upgrade you will ever get... Until I becolme rich, buy infra-red industrial class soldering station, hunt down matching SoC with more RAM, and solder it Jan 05 23:18:22 i couldn't get qtirreco to work personally anyway. even without kernel-power Jan 05 23:18:27 warfaren, qtirreco is EOL Jan 05 23:18:31 i was beggining to think my IR hardware was broken Jan 05 23:18:32 no one works on it for ages Jan 05 23:18:35 ok Jan 05 23:18:42 it just doesn't work ;) Jan 05 23:18:43 warfaren: hm, i don't think that's a common problem Jan 05 23:18:49 otoh, a common problem is that it sucks Jan 05 23:18:58 pierogi is a way for IR, and for emergency shutdowns, TVBGone! widget Jan 05 23:19:01 but i found another software and it made my IR port light up in my camera so i'm not concerned anymore Jan 05 23:19:05 you need to be quite perfect in line Jan 05 23:19:07 DocScrutinizer05: ping Jan 05 23:19:09 and the range kinda sucks Jan 05 23:19:14 pong Jan 05 23:19:15 okay Jan 05 23:19:21 overvolting? :D Jan 05 23:19:25 Estel_: well well, and I'm fairly sure I've got some logs where you said you'd never show your head in #maemo anymore. Jan 05 23:19:32 w00t? Jan 05 23:19:48 wishful thinking , it was about TMO Jan 05 23:19:56 not in mood for talking about it, though Jan 05 23:20:01 erhm, no, it was about #maemo. Jan 05 23:20:09 sure, suit yourself, I was just jesting :) Jan 05 23:20:17 happy newyear, btw Jan 05 23:20:20 so either you're wrong or "everybody lies". Jan 05 23:21:52 well, modified davicom drivers for egthernet dongle seems to work. Time to pester Pali about updating ID's in kernel-power's module, for next version Jan 05 23:22:06 thanks for help, ShadowJK! Jan 05 23:22:35 warfaren: it's really not worth it Jan 05 23:22:43 https://krautchan.net/files/1357413528001.png Jan 05 23:22:44 warfaren, overvolting won't help IR diode, it's just quite non-tollerant for bad aiming Jan 05 23:22:45 Estel_; does it ping? Jan 05 23:22:45 and eventually you'll fuck up the cpu Jan 05 23:22:46 legit Jan 05 23:22:49 hehe okay Jan 05 23:22:58 oh, you meant the IR diode? Jan 05 23:23:10 sorry wrong channel Jan 05 23:23:25 ShadowJK, yes. Jan 05 23:23:30 we *seriously* need a #maemo qdb Jan 05 23:23:47 quite like belkin, you need to enumerate it with cabole plugged in, to auto-create interface Jan 05 23:23:50 Estel_; does ping -s 1400 also work? Jan 05 23:23:50 warfaren: are you not done yet? :s Jan 05 23:24:12 kerio: almost. got caught up with some chat so i couldn't work 100% :P Jan 05 23:24:23 but i'm backing up stuff now Jan 05 23:24:38 ...you're in the same timezone as me? Jan 05 23:24:46 ShadowJK, chucking, but eventually responds, why asking? Jan 05 23:24:52 huh? Jan 05 23:24:58 GMT+1 here Jan 05 23:25:06 your irssi reports that you're in UTC+1, yes Jan 05 23:25:08 DocScrutinizer05: can you organise the things that maemo-archive needs to mirror? I've been getting email and PM spam regarding people who want to upload shit Jan 05 23:25:14 Estel_; the MTU and davicom thing :) Jan 05 23:25:19 why? Jan 05 23:25:30 erm, got DC'ed - i wonder if due to abusing it via ping with big size, or my connector sucks and get moved Jan 05 23:25:36 why are we doing this now, when i kinda want to go to sleep, instead of, say, tomorrow at around 11 am? :s Jan 05 23:25:50 i just assumed you were in a crappy timezone Jan 05 23:26:01 aha Jan 05 23:26:04 i see Jan 05 23:26:08 ShadowJK, it seems it might have been eliminated in new davicoms. Sad p.art - they have changed ID's. Jan 05 23:26:09 yeah sure no problem for me Jan 05 23:26:22 nah, i'll just help you with the flashing Jan 05 23:26:32 i'm really grateful for all the help i've gotten so far and besides the phone is booting again :P Jan 05 23:26:36 :) Jan 05 23:26:36 teotwaki: please redirect those to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/backed-up-sites.txt Jan 05 23:26:38 yeah but you should reflash Jan 05 23:26:45 kerio, linking to wiki with flashing article isn't easier? He isn't noob. Of course if wiki works, at all Jan 05 23:26:46 yeahh will definately do so Jan 05 23:26:59 Estel_: the steps after flashing are crucial, too Jan 05 23:27:07 for instance, he might risk installing rootsh Jan 05 23:27:09 kerio, like what? Jan 05 23:27:11 instead of doing the right thing Jan 05 23:27:14 it's really slow anyway. installing apps from the appstore makes it sit at a screen doing nothing for 2 minutes before starting to install. that isn't normal is it? Jan 05 23:27:17 DocScrutinizer05: is that the one that runs on maemo-archive? Jan 05 23:27:23 warfaren: HAM is a piece of crap Jan 05 23:27:28 i assume it could have to do with the previous owner having a lot of repositories or something Jan 05 23:27:29 (Application Manager) Jan 05 23:27:31 okay Jan 05 23:27:31 warfaren, sadly, hildon application manager is always, always slow Jan 05 23:27:36 i see Jan 05 23:27:42 warfaren: and sadly, Jan 05 23:27:44 but we have apt-get or fapman Jan 05 23:27:44 ~fapman Jan 05 23:27:45 from memory, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever Jan 05 23:27:52 ^ true story Jan 05 23:27:53 what a factoid Jan 05 23:27:54 so use apt-get Jan 05 23:28:01 i have been using apt-get as often as i could since i realised its slowness Jan 05 23:28:01 that is what our volunteers did on a dedicated server we hired for backup Jan 05 23:28:15 at first i thought it wasn't working at all. heh Jan 05 23:28:22 well, warfaren, don't want to start a little argue, but I'm using fapman since beginning of times, without any problems, ever Jan 05 23:28:32 teotwaki: nfc what's maemo-archive Jan 05 23:28:39 Estel_: except that the pre/post scripts are run in a different way Jan 05 23:28:39 even for things depreciated by others, like cssu upgrades or first-time installations Jan 05 23:28:41 okay i will totally check it out when i'm done Jan 05 23:28:41 DocScrutinizer05: it's my server, maemo-archive.wedrop.it Jan 05 23:28:44 and a lot of them don't work Jan 05 23:28:51 like the various flashers Jan 05 23:28:53 some things are a bad idea to use fapman/apt-get with Jan 05 23:29:26 ShadowJK, true, and out of curiosity, I'm always re-testing things like cssu upgrades on other device, via ham Jan 05 23:29:53 I have yet to see any things broken by fapman, though. Curikous to test, if you have examples what reproducibly fails Jan 05 23:29:54 warfaren: to get root access, install openssh from the repos (it'll make you set a root password), then login as root by sshing localhost and set up your own sudoers file Jan 05 23:30:13 kerio, or install rootsh, or sudser, if you want passwords ;) Jan 05 23:30:15 rootsh is a piece of crap Jan 05 23:30:27 okay. that's better security wise? Jan 05 23:30:29 sudser fucks up the sudoers file if you set no password Jan 05 23:30:29 sure, still, everyone uses it and won't complain. Jan 05 23:30:37 * kerio doesn't have it installed) Jan 05 23:30:43 i assume i want to disable root login in /etc/ssh/sshd_config after that? Jan 05 23:30:49 warfaren: security on fremantle is a joke Jan 05 23:30:53 okay :P Jan 05 23:30:55 there's no /etc/shadow support, for instance Jan 05 23:30:59 ...so yeah Jan 05 23:31:05 ouch Jan 05 23:31:21 security on fremantle = truecrypt + 5 minutes autolock + smscon Jan 05 23:31:33 smscon needs to be thoroughly configured Jan 05 23:31:42 smscon isn't that kind of security, though Jan 05 23:31:45 is it? Jan 05 23:31:57 then, even if someone *would* want to steal your nude photos, its futile Jan 05 23:32:10 kerio, it is in addition to auto-mount partitions of truecrypt Jan 05 23:32:20 i.e. things that you mount on boot time Jan 05 23:32:42 (aka lowest risk things, like addressbook, mails, or notes, or photos, or videos, or...) Jan 05 23:33:27 if you have area51 data, you should mount it manually, for sure, but in other cases, auto-mounting on boogt time (with providing password and keyfiles on boottime by user) is more conveinent idea Jan 05 23:33:36 if you have area51 data, send plz Jan 05 23:33:42 and still, to get around lock code, one need to reboot device at least once Jan 05 23:34:01 which unmount partition, even if it was mount at boot time. Jan 05 23:34:30 belive or not, N900 is most secure device in terms of protecting data, if you configure it properly (comparable to real linux notebooks) Jan 05 23:34:33 Estel_: i think he was talking more about the system security Jan 05 23:34:56 well, if you feel it fancy, you can encrypt home :P Jan 05 23:34:58 heheh Jan 05 23:35:07 meh, i'm actually going to sleep, you guys finish this Jan 05 23:35:14 alright Jan 05 23:35:17 thanks again for your help! Jan 05 23:35:18 ~flashing Jan 05 23:35:20 [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 05 23:35:26 follow that, too Jan 05 23:35:28 will do! Jan 05 23:35:31 cryptfs etc... still, You don't wanna flash combined, with home encrypted. Funny thiong to do. Jan 05 23:35:50 then delete cherry, get root access, install some flavour of cssu Jan 05 23:36:05 possibly testing, if you're ok with some quirkyness Jan 05 23:36:12 alright Jan 05 23:36:33 well, I would rather say reflash -> install kernel-power and cssu-thumb->install ssh -> install hostmode ;) Jan 05 23:36:33 i wouldn't necessarily install cssu-thumb right now, it's slightly quirkier than cssu testing Jan 05 23:36:40 anyone have own favorites, heh Jan 05 23:36:44 everyone* Jan 05 23:36:53 Estel_: that's what i'd do, but he got a n900 two days ago Jan 05 23:37:08 give him a bit of time to familiarize himself with the system at least :) Jan 05 23:37:13 frankly, I wouldn't recommend cssu stable to anyone Jan 05 23:37:31 Estel_: cssu stable is for normal users Jan 05 23:37:45 old jerk rule - cssu-testing = stable, cssu-stable = oldstable, cssu-thumb = stable+devel thumb bits Jan 05 23:37:56 in fact, it's recommended, as a "bugfix version" of pr 1.3 Jan 05 23:38:08 kerio, cssu stable is severely outdated, too :/ Jan 05 23:38:10 it should be indistinguishable, in fact Jan 05 23:38:32 Estel_: **the same as stock but with less bugs** Jan 05 23:38:47 it's like the whole point Jan 05 23:38:51 ok well i'm ready to flash Jan 05 23:39:05 well, not in mood for any argues anyway, but "less bugs" may be not really approriate for stable. Funny enough, testing seems to be more mature in terms of being bugless. Jan 05 23:39:21 anyway, he is grown up, and will install any shit he want ;) Jan 05 23:39:34 * Estel_ waves Jan 05 23:40:14 haha Jan 05 23:41:11 ...this went better than i thought Jan 05 23:41:56 warfaren: flash COMBINED without (re)booting, flash VANILLA, boot Jan 05 23:42:00 and be happy Jan 05 23:42:27 i see. i'm about to read the page you linked though Jan 05 23:43:24 going to sleep, ask here if you need any help, they're mostly good people Jan 05 23:44:16 :) sleep tight Jan 06 00:21:57 >>cssu stable is severely outdated<< vs >>Stable(2012-12-24): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo5<< Jan 06 00:22:28 harsh criteria for 'severely outdated' - ~10 days Jan 06 00:23:39 some people are never happy, unless they have something to bitch about Jan 06 00:30:34 warfaren: a suggestion for good: make familiar with you awesome new N900 for a few weeks, then install cssu-stable and notice you don't really see any difference. Then check http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/FeaturesStable and explore a few of the "hidden" features. Then if you feel like helping with cssu-testing (as explained on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU ) you can install cssu-testing any time, you can upgrade from stable Jan 06 00:30:35 to testing Jan 06 00:31:27 i see Jan 06 00:32:17 and don't install too much nonsense before you got a feeling how smooth and with how much endurance a plain N900 runs, when no skype installed Jan 06 00:32:36 and if any questions, come here and ask :-) Jan 06 00:34:00 ahh.. doesn't skype come preinstalled though? Jan 06 00:49:57 more or less, yes Jan 06 00:50:37 but it's known to kill the battery, due to constant data traffic via GSM/UMTS Jan 06 00:51:04 so better don't use it in your first week Jan 06 00:52:19 DocScrutinizer05: why is that? skype I mean Jan 06 00:52:37 I am online on skype 24/7, don't see any problems with it Jan 06 00:54:50 freemangordon: that's news to me Jan 06 00:55:32 I always thought skyhost processes are BAD[TM] Jan 06 00:57:24 no, why is that? who says it? Jan 06 00:58:16 heard it several times Jan 06 00:58:17 toldya, I run skype 24/7 since I got the device (~3years ago), didn;t see any problems Jan 06 00:58:32 thats weird Jan 06 00:59:09 skype is p2p, with unpredictable behaviour Jan 06 00:59:29 the only telepathy plugin that makes troubles (afaik) is telepathy-idle Jan 06 00:59:44 it crashes every now and then, on disconnect Jan 06 00:59:48 and that buddy list in skype addbook could cause massive update traffic Jan 06 01:00:11 hmmm, I do wonder how long Skype-on-N900 will keep working before Microsoft makes some breaking change to the protocol... :P Jan 06 01:00:20 well, but that does not make him unstable or buggy Jan 06 01:01:00 hm? Jan 06 01:01:33 Doing traffic Jan 06 01:01:47 nobody said skype is instable Jan 06 01:02:10 aah, you mean the battery Jan 06 01:02:28 [2013-01-06 01:50:36] but it's known to kill the battery, due to constant data traffic via GSM/UMTS Jan 06 01:02:30 [2013-01-06 01:51:04] so better don't use it in your first week Jan 06 01:02:45 yeah, sorry, missed that Jan 06 01:03:06 DocScrutinizer05: well, I am online on skype/gtalk/fb chat all day long Jan 06 01:03:19 some days on 2G the others on wifi Jan 06 01:04:04 if I don;t play much with the device (which happens rarely :D) it lasts > 24 hours with a charge Jan 06 01:05:13 but it easily makes it through the day with lots of play (usually I use it as a book reader with opera) Jan 06 01:05:27 but it is screen that eats the battery, not IM accounts Jan 06 01:05:55 screen eats much battery, yes Jan 06 01:07:29 DocScrutinizer05: ofc I am on thumb with SR on, I guess that gives me some additional 1-2 hours Jan 06 01:45:55 hi Jan 06 01:48:10 hi Jan 06 01:48:46 How can you make wget download files with another name? Jan 06 01:48:59 what exactly do you mean? Jan 06 01:49:05 You can abuse -O but according to manpage that's not intended use of it Jan 06 01:49:19 oh the output file? yeah Jan 06 01:49:22 warfaren: making wget save to specified name Jan 06 01:49:30 Just use -O Jan 06 01:49:33 I wonder what the "right" way is Jan 06 01:49:33 that's what i do. didn't know you weren't supposed to? Jan 06 01:49:44 warfaren: manpage says not to :p Jan 06 01:49:52 wget http://something.com/something else -O "myMediaFile.avi" Jan 06 01:49:57 what does it say it is for? Jan 06 01:51:01 "Use of -O is NOT intended to mean simply "use the name file instead of the one in the URL" Jan 06 01:51:05 robbiethe1st: ok then Jan 06 01:51:21 Works fine for me. Jan 06 01:51:44 Again, the difference between what the developer intends and what people actually use it for can be huge Jan 06 01:51:51 :p Jan 06 01:51:58 I guess Jan 06 01:52:05 Fortunately, we users don't care what those silly devs want, right? Jan 06 01:52:23 ...and then will send them bug reports when it doesn't do what we expect. Jan 06 01:52:27 oh yeah well you can output it to STDOUT and redirect that into a file i guess Jan 06 01:52:33 like he says in the example Jan 06 01:53:09 robbiethe1st: :p Jan 06 01:53:25 hehe Jan 06 01:53:30 but my main concern to why i really wanted this is an issue with fat32 Jan 06 01:53:46 oh i see Jan 06 01:53:48 what is that? Jan 06 01:53:58 apparently fat32 doesn't support ?, = or both and instead write a bogus error Jan 06 01:54:02 let me paste Jan 06 01:54:22 in filenames? yeah that sounds familiar Jan 06 01:55:00 Heck, more than that Jan 06 01:55:00 Cannot write to "o-i l.i?dl=1" (Success). Jan 06 01:55:04 Same with NTFS Jan 06 01:55:13 (keep in mind I altered filename to something else) Jan 06 01:55:28 yeah probably because of compatibility with the DOS syntax Jan 06 01:55:41 It's why I often have to 'fix' filenames when I move from my awesome ext4 system to silly Windoze boxen. Jan 06 01:55:54 ah yeah Jan 06 01:56:15 so basically -O (proper filename) should do it I suppose? Jan 06 01:56:28 Which means... Give up your Fat32! Come over to the light side! Jan 06 01:56:31 it should.. Jan 06 01:56:34 robbiethe1st: ntfs actually supports more than explorer allows though Jan 06 01:57:00 true Jan 06 01:57:24 yeah i've written some illegal characters to file names of an NTFS partition. couldn't delete them from windows 7. hehehe Jan 06 01:57:35 it's case sensitive for example, which introduces a lot of problems if you actually write files with same name and different casings and try to use it on windows Jan 06 01:57:44 or rename them or anything. had to load up linux to fix it Jan 06 01:58:05 I've done more than that - With cygwin, I've managed to change filenames to stuff that either deleted or 'disappeared' the file Jan 06 01:58:07 had to move one of the files to fix it lol Jan 06 01:58:13 hehehe fun Jan 06 01:58:32 even cygwin failed to solve the equality :P Jan 06 02:19:50 anyone here know anything about the status of the wiki? I have the right entry in etc/hosts and its picking up the new wiki location (in that it doesn't have the "warning this wiki is moving" in big red letters), I want to know if its safe to edit said wiki or not (specifcially http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages ) Jan 06 02:29:45 warfaren: del \\.\C:\path Jan 06 02:29:59 that works on windows? :P hehe Jan 06 02:30:05 yes Jan 06 02:30:08 cool Jan 06 02:30:26 annoy your friends by creating a file called "nul" on the desktop Jan 06 02:30:36 :D Jan 06 02:30:38 bonus points if it takes up a few GBs :) Jan 06 02:30:42 hehehe Jan 06 02:31:25 see fsutil to instantly create oversized files Jan 06 02:31:36 or giant sparse files Jan 06 02:31:45 lol :) Jan 06 02:31:47 it needs admin rights though Jan 06 02:32:23 I belive Cygwin uses UNC paths internally Jan 06 02:32:36 it should be able to delete files with funny names Jan 06 02:33:39 warfaren: also, you can try this in cmd: mkdir "funnydir " Jan 06 02:33:57 the space makes it impossible to delete through explorer **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 06 02:59:59 2013