**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 07 02:59:59 2013 Jan 07 03:00:40 well, actually i'm not quite sure if we really already got that fix Jan 07 03:01:18 assumed that since the guys hurried to ship a new T release Jan 07 03:01:56 had no time to follow up the details Jan 07 03:22:42 It looks like merlin1991 made the actual change (i.e. there is no commit to the "upstream" repo) but where the actual content of that change came from I dont know (for example, who has whatever key is used to manage the signature at the end of certman.blacklist) Jan 07 03:22:56 anyhow, the main thing is that it IS being kept up to date with compromized certificates Jan 07 03:24:05 I guess they used cert of CSSU then Jan 07 03:24:28 we would need to ask merlin1991... Jan 07 03:24:36 or nuked the signature of blacklist, which is a nonsense in my book anyway Jan 07 03:25:45 tbh I don't see why anybody is signing the list with certs *I* decided to trust or not to trust Jan 07 03:27:50 and which process is checking such signature, with which ley, and who's checking/signing the process that does this check Jan 07 03:28:11 s/ley/key/ Jan 07 03:28:11 DocScrutinizer05 meant: and which process is checking such signature, with which key, and who's checking/signing the process that does this check Jan 07 03:29:50 this doesn't make sense, in fremantle Jan 07 03:30:38 thank God it doesn't, otherwise we had Aegis' predecessor Jan 07 03:34:51 jonwil: anyway, according to that script on tmo, removing certs is no problem Jan 07 03:35:24 maybe they are just shipping that script as postinstall Jan 07 03:36:23 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1311592#post1311592 Jan 07 04:08:24 jonwil: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2013-01-06.log.html#t2013-01-06T21:11:15 Jan 07 04:42:51 Is there one source to check the latest n900 firmware? Or are there 3rd party firmwares too? Jan 07 04:51:34 Also, how do you make it auto switch back to a real connection after switching to the MMS apn? Jan 07 05:00:33 internetishard: Gentoo ftw Jan 07 05:03:08 I don't follow, gentoo on n900? Jan 07 05:03:33 Luke-Jr: ... Jan 07 05:04:20 right Jan 07 05:05:03 that's a chroot, I don't see what you're answering... Jan 07 05:09:02 internetishard: you can boot it Jan 07 05:11:43 got an example to link me to? Jan 07 05:12:24 I think after all these years we should have easily bootable states we can pop into the n900. Like images or configuration management scripts to setup to a certain state. Jan 07 05:13:30 not really, I think I documented it somewhere, but I forget where <.< Jan 07 05:14:18 http://wiki.maemo.org/Gentoo/N900 Jan 07 07:33:31 ping DocScrutinizer05 Jan 07 07:33:41 what is with autobuilder? Jan 07 07:33:45 when will be online? Jan 07 08:14:47 GeneralAntilles: Sorry about that. Realised in bed last night. Jan 07 08:14:59 GeneralAntilles: Daughter's birthday today, so I might have limited time to fix it up Jan 07 11:32:49 #j ubuntu Jan 07 11:43:53 Jaffa, no worries. I have time today. Be with your family, and happy birthday to your daughter. Jan 07 12:22:44 andre__: is it possible to get an export of bugzilla bugs packages? Jan 07 12:23:00 thedead1440, I don't know what "bugs packages" are, plus which Bugzilla? Jan 07 12:23:11 do you mean bug reports / tivckets? Jan 07 12:23:29 yes bug reports + tickets Jan 07 12:23:42 the only bugzilla not on maemo.org seems to be for harmattan Jan 07 12:23:58 depends on which projects you refer to. Jan 07 12:24:03 e.g. there's also bugs.meego.com Jan 07 12:24:10 or the private Nokia Bugzilla instance. Jan 07 12:24:49 https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/ Jan 07 12:24:57 ^^ that one Jan 07 12:25:01 thedead1440, I have nothing to do with harmattan-bugs.nokia.com Jan 07 12:25:08 that's nokia.com Jan 07 12:25:21 hence Nokia territory. Jan 07 12:25:23 ah ok; sorry for the trouble then. Thanks! Jan 07 12:25:43 not even sure if I still have shell access to bugs.maemo.org TBH Jan 07 12:26:16 oh; was just trying on a lead from TMO Jan 07 12:28:05 I'm wondering who in Nokia to ask. Problem is that I have no clue who is left there. Jan 07 12:28:25 maybe maybe maybe Eric Le Roux is still there, but nobody else comes to my mind. Jan 07 12:28:54 I remember that some "good" folks in Nokia set up harmattan-bugs.nokia.com by bypassing official ways. Jan 07 12:29:19 and Eric was one of them (the others coming to my mind have definitely left, Eric I don't know but probably too) Jan 07 12:29:28 :( Jan 07 12:31:27 Eric Le Roux: I'm the EX-MeeGo EM Lead who used to work @ Nokia. Viva Bugzilla! Jan 07 12:34:17 Ah. Where did you find that? Jan 07 12:34:26 https://twitter.com/erkki70 Jan 07 12:34:36 thedead1440, but why would you want harmattan-bugs.nokia.com anyway? Jan 07 12:35:10 in case Nokia stops hosting it soon and it provides information on bugs, comments and workarounds Jan 07 12:35:57 well, you could just carete a readonly copy? Jan 07 12:36:05 it's been closed for ages anyway. Jan 07 12:36:58 indeed HTML files would then be used right? Jan 07 12:37:35 1150 bug reports only. That's easy to crawl. Jan 07 15:34:41 ~seen Pali Jan 07 15:34:54 ~seen Pali Jan 07 15:35:01 pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 3h 41m 34s ago, saying: 'seems that tool "cmcli" could do that... there is -a param and need to specify "blacklist" domain'. Jan 07 15:35:43 freemangordon, ping - do you, by any chance, read maemo-developers mailing list? Jan 07 15:36:55 I supose you mean QF9700 post? Jan 07 15:37:50 * Estel_ nods Jan 07 15:38:24 do you have any info I've missed, merlin1991? Jan 07 15:38:54 nope, do you know anything about someone trying to upstream that driver? Jan 07 15:39:52 I vaguely remember google results about it being put into list - just missed "window" for submitting things for next kernel, or something like that Jan 07 15:40:58 i.e. it's rather about organizational things, bot bugs. AFAIK, sources are pretty clean, and no one usikng it encountered problems with modules itself (many, many people use it on desktops, compiling against own or mainstream kernels) Jan 07 15:41:19 google'ing now for more details about upstreaming Jan 07 15:42:18 although, as dm9601 made it into kernel, and it was released the same way - linux and android "generic" version released by Davicom + sources... Jan 07 15:42:31 it seems, that upstreaming this one too is a must. Jan 07 15:43:00 'a must' as in "just a matter of time" Jan 07 15:43:47 great, first result in google for "qf9700 kernel mainstream" is my mail to maemo-developers in mailing list archive, lol Jan 07 15:57:37 Estel_: I'll remove your infobot ignore, please don't mess with factoids Jan 07 15:58:27 general factoid rule: nobody usually ever redefines factoids Jan 07 15:59:09 create new ones if you like, and please prepend "#maemo " to the key, if factoid is not a globaly true one Jan 07 15:59:45 ~literal flash Jan 07 15:59:46 "flash" is "see flashing" Jan 07 16:00:05 ~literal #maemo flash Jan 07 16:00:11 meh Jan 07 16:01:11 ~literal #maemo closed Jan 07 16:01:12 "#maemo closed" is "http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages" Jan 07 16:01:22 ~literal closed Jan 07 16:01:23 "#maemo closed" is "http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages" Jan 07 16:05:30 Estel_: I'll remove your infobot ignore, please don't mess with factoids. general factoid rule: nobody usually ever redefines factoids. create new ones if you like, and please prepend "#maemo " to the key, if factoid is not a globaly true one Jan 07 16:28:24 Thanks DocScrutinizer05. No worries, I think everyone is more happy with me messing in Maemo internals, than Maemo politics. Furthermore, I'm more happy with it, too :D Jan 07 16:29:06 happy users, that's what we like most :-D Jan 07 16:29:12 I try to avoid politics too Jan 07 16:29:30 I am much happier knee deep inside some ARM ASM or some C code than I am trying to deal with political BS :) Jan 07 16:29:35 anyway, infobot ignore removed Jan 07 16:31:33 jonwil: you're speaking big truth Jan 07 16:32:18 except for me it's technical concepts Jan 07 16:32:41 whatever Jan 07 16:33:56 [general notice] our awesome CSSU crew shipped a CSSU-T7.2 version today that's supposed to fix the annoying TURKTRUST cert issue. AIUI we're 3rd "distro" that acted accordingly, worldwide :-D Jan 07 16:47:42 I feel for all those people stuck on old builds of Android and iOS who will never see updates that blacklist these compromised certificates Jan 07 16:48:57 On Maemo the relevant code and data is LGPL and can continue to be updated into the future as long as someone is out there with a N900, the skills to update the package and the interest and desire to do so Jan 07 17:18:05 hi can u recommend some app for counting bandwidth when connected to cellular network (not wifi) ? Jan 07 17:31:10 sup Jan 07 17:38:59 DocScrutinizer05, merlin1991: I have small hildon dialog application which ask user if he want to change Nokia supl server to Google supl Jan 07 17:39:38 Pali: you are hero man :) Jan 07 17:39:54 with 4 buttons: YES (always), NO (never), YES (for now), NO (for now) Jan 07 17:39:59 Pali: BTW why not on #maemo-ssu? Jan 07 17:40:07 I'm Jan 07 17:40:14 hmm? Jan 07 17:40:33 ah, now I see its on #maemo Jan 07 17:40:42 :D Jan 07 17:53:20 Pali: "for now"? Jan 07 18:44:40 GeneralAntilles: How's it going? Should be able to assist in the next hour or so :-/ Jan 07 18:46:40 Jaffa, slow. Had some unexpected company this morning. Not too many more left, though. Jan 07 19:55:14 GeneralAntilles: Online now. Need to get the kids to bed Jan 07 20:33:08 maybe my N900 is destroyed, I didn't chanced the software on maemo, last time I listed music before a few hours but now it doesn't boot, only until the white-blue Nokia-bootscreen disappears... :( Jan 07 20:38:24 NeutrinoPower: what repositories are you using? Jan 07 20:38:28 NeutrinoPower: battery? Jan 07 20:38:46 luf: easier things first Jan 07 20:39:56 Gadgetoid: good seller! complete and new device in perfect condition. will buy again any time. :-D Jan 07 20:41:26 DocScrutinizer05: 5th? Jan 07 20:41:32 yup Jan 07 20:42:03 needs a name Jan 07 20:42:28 hmm, I got 2 others without a name Jan 07 20:42:38 you monster :( Jan 07 20:43:02 i might it call gift Jan 07 20:43:22 since it came in awesome xmas paper Jan 07 20:43:28 gadget900 Jan 07 20:43:43 also nice Jan 07 20:44:18 what about the other two, though? :s Jan 07 20:44:53 hm, scarface and blue Jan 07 20:45:37 is there a history for those names? Jan 07 20:45:43 scarface is really used, and blue came from bluefon Jan 07 20:45:49 heh Jan 07 20:45:56 DocScrutinizer05: now i feel kinda bad Jan 07 20:46:03 the current n900 is kerio900 for obvious reasons Jan 07 20:46:08 but the old n900 is still there in its box Jan 07 20:46:14 and he used to be kerio900 Jan 07 20:46:18 *his box Jan 07 20:46:23 luf: extras-testing and extras-devel Jan 07 20:46:48 ...i suppose that he's still kerio900, just without a battery and not being used anymore Jan 07 20:47:04 it also didn't boot with USB-connection but now I hear the start-sound Jan 07 20:47:10 she! Jan 07 20:47:53 DocScrutinizer05: you choose the gender of your own phones, i choose the gender of mine Jan 07 20:47:59 kerio: You have just reminded me Jan 07 20:48:07 DocScrutinizer05: btw, wanna buy a phone with a broken usb port? Jan 07 20:48:16 depends Jan 07 20:48:32 Much quieter this way. Jan 07 20:49:25 RST38h: glad to help Jan 07 20:49:36 yeah, the N900 works again! :) Jan 07 20:49:59 I dont' know why Jan 07 20:50:36 DocScrutinizer05: italian keyboard, not sure which hv rev, rapuyama had some problems, usb port is nonworking but can still get a connection somehow Jan 07 20:50:52 fairly scratched Jan 07 20:51:02 ...i'm not sure why i still have it Jan 07 20:51:13 isn't worth the shipping Jan 07 20:51:20 I have activated "SmartReflex" since a few weeks without problems Jan 07 20:51:43 NeutrinoPower: it should work without issues with a recent kernel-power Jan 07 20:52:00 unless you got a hw rev where it fails Jan 07 20:52:07 like mine :P Jan 07 20:52:23 ooh, there are some known hv revs where it fails? Jan 07 20:52:43 does it make a noticeable difference on the n900? Jan 07 20:53:00 that's a particularly good question Jan 07 20:53:12 cehteh: eeh, probably not Jan 07 20:53:16 never heard any *hard* numbers Jan 07 20:53:54 after all it's just hw driven Vcore vs sw-controlled Vcore changing Jan 07 20:53:58 aiui Jan 07 20:54:27 can't really hurt though, if it works Jan 07 20:54:33 with an undervolted device there isnt much room for driving vcore Jan 07 20:54:42 cehteh: oh you Jan 07 20:54:50 so the main difference would be in less "overhead" for switching Vcore "manually" and using up CPU cycles for that Jan 07 20:55:04 DocScrutinizer05: the cpu cycles are probably used anyway, though Jan 07 20:55:17 cehteh: is undervolting really worth it? Jan 07 20:55:26 yup, unless you deactivate the Vcore switching in sw Jan 07 20:55:26 cpu cycles when the cpu is awake are not that expensive Jan 07 20:56:16 :nod: Jan 07 20:56:20 kerio: yes, with some caution, and dont do it too extreme, but the stock values are on a 'save bet which works everywhere' so there is quite some room Jan 07 20:56:41 but its really hard to debug and proof Jan 07 20:57:05 DocScrutinizer05: Thanks, don't happen to want a Tapwave Zodiac do you? hahaha Jan 07 20:57:14 anyways i found out that the dsp was malfunctioning on the low freq undervoltate, not on high frequency Jan 07 20:57:22 that was a pita to find out Jan 07 20:57:49 Gadgetoid: probably not Jan 07 20:57:57 increased voltage for the 250mhz combo slightly fixed it Jan 07 20:57:59 DocScrutinizer05: That's okay… nobody does :D Jan 07 20:58:00 hm, the cpu on this one can't stand the "ideal" kernel-config Jan 07 20:58:09 Got my Revo K101 from the office today, nice GBA clone Jan 07 20:58:11 ideal is undervolting Jan 07 20:58:22 (500-850) Jan 07 20:58:37 which i'm not really sure why is called "ideal" Jan 07 20:58:55 i have 250-850 derrived from ideal but slightly adapted Jan 07 20:59:12 meh, OCing isn't really worth it imo Jan 07 20:59:16 yes .. and its a very specific thing to your device Jan 07 20:59:33 more ram :( Jan 07 20:59:45 oc helps a little in few apps ... Jan 07 21:00:15 what would help a lot would be more ram or compcache/zram at least Jan 07 21:00:21 OC is worth it when you're bound to some timepace like for 25fps Jan 07 21:00:29 either you make it, or not Jan 07 21:00:38 but nokias kernel changes for swapping introduce some bugs in compcache Jan 07 21:00:57 for anything else, OC by less than 100% is evidently mostly placebo Jan 07 21:01:00 my rasberrypi works *much* more smoothly with zram Jan 07 21:01:22 DocScrutinizer05: for few cpu bound apps it helps ... Jan 07 21:01:47 but as soon you have mmc io or display io things are leveled Jan 07 21:02:05 it helps to become *maybe* 30% faster, that's however a speedup most users don't even notice Jan 07 21:02:06 rendering in monav is noticeable faster Jan 07 21:02:17 yes Jan 07 21:02:23 cehteh: why monav and not modrana? Jan 07 21:02:41 vector maps Jan 07 21:02:46 ...that *is* neat Jan 07 21:03:01 and *awesome* routing capabilities Jan 07 21:03:08 modrana uses monav's routing :) Jan 07 21:03:21 dunno does modrana use the monav routing ... ah yes Jan 07 21:03:35 well i have an old monav on my device and put updates on blacklist Jan 07 21:03:53 why? Jan 07 21:03:58 because my map data is slightly outdated .. but works still better than anything else Jan 07 21:04:08 too lazy to generate new maps Jan 07 21:04:28 do i need to do that? Jan 07 21:04:53 if you dont find a place where you can download maps for the actual monav, then yes Jan 07 21:05:14 no, i mean, can't i generate the map tiles on the device itself? Jan 07 21:05:24 i used the old 'germany_big' maps from christoph .. but the newer monav changed the on disk formar Jan 07 21:05:40 vector format and some special files for routing Jan 07 21:06:17 monav's routing logic is fast because of an awesome engineered format which puts the logic in the preprocessed files Jan 07 21:06:31 generating this files needs a lot resources and a beefy computer Jan 07 21:06:39 the mapsets are pregenerated, right? Jan 07 21:06:45 the ones on http://monav.openstreetmap.de/ Jan 07 21:07:03 monav itself just traverses this and can do routing acros the whole country in a blink of a eye Jan 07 21:07:20 yes iirc these are not compatible with the actual monav version Jan 07 21:07:25 aww :( Jan 07 21:07:38 i used the germay_big there (unpacked and then packed it again on a squashfs) Jan 07 21:08:06 needed me to backport squashfs tools for the squashfs version on the n900 as well Jan 07 21:09:16 and the germany_big map includes insanely much details .. even small trails and footpaths, only that its few years old now Jan 07 21:09:35 and bike/hike routing works extremely well Jan 07 21:09:53 (in most cases .. haha sometimes OSM data fails) Jan 07 21:11:08 ah kerio the 'osm installer for the n900' on that page contains the old version i am using .. the maps are compatible with that Jan 07 21:11:26 so i shouldn't use the one on extras-devel? Jan 07 21:13:15 nope that one is newer Jan 07 21:13:24 or use that and generate new maps Jan 07 21:16:44 cehteh: well, you could redownload the german maps from there Jan 07 21:17:16 i prolly generate new maps and recompress them Jan 07 21:17:30 my new laptop should be beefy enough :P Jan 07 21:24:18 why squashfs, though? Jan 07 21:26:10 cehteh: these monav files are tha same ones that marble, the qt/kde app can use? Jan 07 21:29:17 right now I see in your site the file for Spain from 2011-04-20, but marble has a file for teh same country from 30/12/2012 Jan 07 21:30:55 StyXman: where are those files? Jan 07 21:31:29 StyXman: the monav from extras-devel is newer and needs another format Jan 07 21:31:31 StyXman: marble uses the monav routing Jan 07 21:31:42 the maps are tile based i think Jan 07 21:32:26 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MoNav Jan 07 21:33:15 cehteh: yay vector maps Jan 07 21:33:26 but no sea :( Jan 07 21:33:46 no sea? Jan 07 21:34:07 hehe .. since i live in the southwest of germany now i never checked :) Jan 07 21:34:11 no blue area around italy Jan 07 21:34:34 well other water bodies are seen .. lakes and rivers Jan 07 21:42:32 cehteh, kerio: if you need just Monav routing data, I have a dataset with world coverage from october Jan 07 21:42:38 on: http://data.modrana.org/monav/ Jan 07 21:43:28 M4rtinK: modrana uses tiles :( Jan 07 21:43:48 (it was generated in less than 5 hours on a server generously provided by my Uni :) ) Jan 07 21:43:53 M4rtinK: that doesnt work with the monav vector rendering? Jan 07 21:44:13 cehteh: I skipped vector map data generation Jan 07 21:44:24 ok Jan 07 21:44:26 M4rtinK: :( Jan 07 21:44:30 as thatsa currently not supported by modRana Jan 07 21:44:33 well i look into generating my own maps Jan 07 21:44:52 M4rtinK: generated from world.osm? Jan 07 21:44:55 I wanted to get the map packages ass small as possible Jan 07 21:45:00 i like what christoph did .. germany with big bounding box into neighbouring countries Jan 07 21:45:24 from the individual geofabrik extracts Jan 07 21:46:53 using a diffed planet.osm & osmosis to get the extracts is on my TODO list Jan 07 21:47:11 BTW, the repository generator is here: Jan 07 21:47:14 https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana-data-repository Jan 07 21:47:44 M4rtinK: are there premade map packages for modrana? Jan 07 21:48:01 shouldn't be difficult to modify the monav-preprocessor commandline to also include vector map data Jan 07 21:48:27 kerio: only the global Monav routing data Jan 07 21:48:39 i was talking about the tile Jan 07 21:48:41 *tiles Jan 07 21:48:58 kerio: nope, none Jan 07 21:49:48 cehteh: can monav do voices? Jan 07 21:50:02 marble can, but i'm not sure which kind of maps it uses Jan 07 21:50:09 IIRC there is some branch that does voice directions Jan 07 21:50:25 christoph worked on that, actually had it working at home, but i dont know if that made it into the mainline Jan 07 21:50:28 and of course modRana has voice directions for the routes provided by Monav Jan 07 21:50:47 i can ask him when i met him .. but thats some weeks ahead :) Jan 07 21:51:06 i dunno about the current state of monav either .. if anyone developing on it Jan 07 21:51:31 the main author vanished iirc and other contributors are occupied Jan 07 21:51:38 BTW, I would like to also support vector map rendering in modRana eventually Jan 07 21:51:51 probably based on the Kothic project: https://github.com/kothic/kothic Jan 07 21:51:51 M4rtinK: that would be cool Jan 07 21:52:21 should be quite straightforward for the GTK UI Jan 07 21:53:27 the resulting maps can look like this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kothic Jan 07 21:54:50 M4rtinK: how is one supposed to tell modrana to download a nation, or something like that? Jan 07 21:56:34 kerio: it is not yet supported in the UI Jan 07 21:57:04 and also the repository doesn't generate the necessary metadata for this to work yet Jan 07 21:57:19 you have to download the data manually for now Jan 07 21:57:36 BTW, there is a guide how to do it: https://wiki.maemo.org/ModRana_offline_routing_guide Jan 07 21:57:57 eventually I would like to do it like in marble Jan 07 21:58:40 continent->country->region, select what package you want Jan 07 21:58:50 + update notifications Jan 07 21:59:07 + differential updates with zsync :) Jan 07 23:00:23 kerio: yes, marble just uses the routing, and it uses tiles which can work both offline :) Jan 07 23:01:51 22:44 < cehteh> well i look into generating my own maps Jan 07 23:01:59 cehteh: vector or tiles? Jan 07 23:02:05 I'm playing with tiles Jan 07 23:16:40 StyXman: vector of course .. much better rendering and less diskspace Jan 07 23:19:55 cehteh: and you can also render different styles from the same dataset :) Jan 07 23:21:12 StyXman: this is a format for bulk tile storage supported by modRana: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/SQLiteStorageDescriptionEN Jan 07 23:21:40 well the monav vector renderer is very minimalistic Jan 07 23:22:29 storing tiles in a sigle file/db results in huge space saving or else each tile image would occupy at least 64 kB on the FAT32 FS in MyDocs Jan 07 23:23:14 M4rtinK: have you investigated the cloudgps rendering .. tiles so far, but it uses opengles if someone is eager it should be doable to render vector maps there .. in a very smooth way Jan 07 23:26:31 cehteh: it's using SDL & OpenGL ES Jan 07 23:26:50 other than that it's tile based like modRana Jan 07 23:27:01 yes Jan 07 23:27:30 but a vector renderer in opengles should be 'relative' simple, schouldnt it? Jan 07 23:27:31 (it also uses the same maps folder as modRana, so you can share map tiles with it if you don't use sqlite for tile storage) Jan 07 23:27:59 no idea Jan 07 23:28:09 I've never actually worked with OpenGL Jan 07 23:28:21 on the other hand .. i am wondering if one could render tiles on the device into some cache (sqlite) which expire when not used Jan 07 23:28:45 but tiles never look pretty when rotated Jan 07 23:29:20 a good realtime renderer handles even rotation Jan 07 23:29:38 so that you don't get upside down names, etc. Jan 07 23:29:55 yes but you cant cache that very well :) Jan 07 23:30:01 or you need some text overlay Jan 07 23:30:01 but even a simple tile renderer would be a huge improvement IMO Jan 07 23:30:08 yeah Jan 07 23:30:52 but Navit & Nokia maps do that IIRC Jan 07 23:31:06 rotating only every 22,5�, not fractions could help a bit .. but prolly not worth the efforts Jan 07 23:31:13 yeah, that would be another possibility Jan 07 23:31:17 a cached background Jan 07 23:31:22 and a dynamic overlay Jan 07 23:31:48 nope, you wan't fluent rotation, so that it can follow the direction of your travel Jan 07 23:32:15 cache background at fixed angles .. and then only a quarter of them .. rotating by 180 and 90� is easy to do without loss Jan 07 23:32:52 and then either render overlay text dynamically or create overlay tiles with texts which are more agressively expired Jan 07 23:33:01 meh, rander from next better resultion via downsampling, looks pretty at any degree of rotation Jan 07 23:33:05 render even Jan 07 23:33:27 DocScrutinizer05: talking about rotation, not downsampling Jan 07 23:33:35 exactly Jan 07 23:33:42 and different zoom levels have different levels of detail Jan 07 23:34:00 you cant just downsample/upsample .. Jan 07 23:34:02 *shrug* Jan 07 23:34:10 (for preview yes) Jan 07 23:34:47 well you need to have different LoD Jan 07 23:34:52 cartography is also some kind of art, not just dumb rendering Jan 07 23:35:14 or else it would die a horrible death if you ever zoom out over a big city Jan 07 23:35:26 not only that Jan 07 23:36:37 real paper maps even move villages slightly aside to make room for a motorway for example, that wont work well on gps accurate computer maps Jan 07 23:36:41 but just get the idea Jan 07 23:37:20 btw, once you have the vector data, you can also use it for introspection, not just rendering Jan 07 23:37:26 sorry for the noise then Jan 07 23:37:40 like checking if you are inside a residential area & issuing a speed warning Jan 07 23:37:47 if you look at germany on a lower zoom level then the 'autobahn' rendered are serveral kilometers wide for example .. but still they pass along or through villages Jan 07 23:38:04 M4rtinK: yes Jan 07 23:38:14 DocScrutinizer05: I think you are right, as IMHO properly implemented rotation looks quote ok Jan 07 23:38:29 *quite Jan 07 23:39:16 cehteh: what vector drawing capabilities does OpenGL(ES) have ? Jan 07 23:39:27 dunno Jan 07 23:39:32 eq, lines, rectangles, curves, text ? Jan 07 23:40:37 well, I always though OpenGL is mostly about mapping textures to 3D objects Jan 07 23:40:39 but isnt opengl all about that? Jan 07 23:40:41 I'd guess poligons Jan 07 23:40:46 erm, I remember talking here to someone who claimed that Windows Phone doesn't deserve to be called a smartphone. After some experiences, I have to agree Jan 07 23:41:04 this 3d objects are polygons .. or triangles at least Jan 07 23:41:21 you dont need to map them you can color them in one color Jan 07 23:41:44 and you can stay in 2D of course .. only rotate for a 3D view Jan 07 23:41:48 tadzik: lol Jan 07 23:42:07 while relative accurate height data for the entire world is freely available iirc Jan 07 23:42:17 the point was that the platform is so closed that it's not even funny Jan 07 23:42:25 haha Jan 07 23:42:29 yep, SRTM & some other dataset too Jan 07 23:42:35 i will never ever touch that Jan 07 23:42:39 I just tried to create a Windows 8 application. I can compile it alright, but if I want to run it (yes, on my local machine) I have to get a developer license Jan 07 23:42:54 and no, an email address is not sufficient. Give us your phone number, bitch Jan 07 23:42:57 i have some hopes for jolla Jan 07 23:43:06 that looks nice Jan 07 23:43:38 then please support it Jan 07 23:43:39 gimme a note2 (or similar hardware) and sailfish please Jan 07 23:44:20 I suppose that the paperclip calls you home if you dereference a null ref somewhere Jan 07 23:44:30 * tadzik sighs and stops whining Jan 07 23:44:35 i got my wife a note 2 w/ android .. nice hardware but android does not convince me (yes nice features, but also a lot i miss, and too much nonfree ads andcrap) Jan 07 23:44:36 checked that samsung tablet with sylus last weekend, was quite nice, for a c-ts Jan 07 23:44:48 stylus even Jan 07 23:44:51 yep Jan 07 23:45:08 and imo just the right sizel .. i like it :) Jan 07 23:45:17 but i need a useable OS Jan 07 23:45:20 yep!! :-D Jan 07 23:45:36 and with quadcore 1.6ghz and 2GB ram you can do serious things Jan 07 23:45:55 I almost bought one Jan 07 23:45:58 i very much like the OLED display Jan 07 23:46:17 most awesome smartphone display i've seen so far Jan 07 23:47:19 we should pedition that hardware and sonftware makers should be split and no company can produce both :P Jan 07 23:47:29 only thing that stopped me been my holy oath to never ever buy anything sponatneously again, without prior recherche in internet Jan 07 23:47:54 I'm seeing a lot of devices with wacom digitizers lately Jan 07 23:48:06 yes dont do .. unless you find some usable OS .. as maemo user andoid will piss you in some way Jan 07 23:48:31 did their patents finally expire or did they just wen't less insane concerning licencing ? Jan 07 23:48:53 its mighty and countless more features .. but nagware, viruses, strange multitasking .. Jan 07 23:49:04 cehteh: you're aware this would directly and inevitably lead to closed software? Jan 07 23:49:27 an affordable decently sized LCD drawing tablet would be be nice :) Jan 07 23:49:33 DocScrutinizer05: not if harware is sold bare and one can pick on your own Jan 07 23:50:20 well, hardware *is* sold bare, you only need to wipe it Jan 07 23:50:30 DocScrutinizer05: there is a GCC compiler and binutils thing in the android store and i installed it on my wifes phone just to check it out Jan 07 23:50:43