**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 10 02:59:59 2013
Jan 10 10:56:41 <XATRIX> Is there any possibility to update my browsers flash plugin ?
Jan 10 10:56:56 <XATRIX> A few flash players unable to play
Jan 10 10:59:02 <Pali> XATRIX, this is last (unreleased) flash player by *nokia* http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1268726#post1268726
Jan 10 11:02:14 <XATRIX> Pali , playerversion.com says i have LNX 9,0,227,0
Jan 10 11:02:31 <XATRIX> Crap :(
Jan 10 11:02:37 <Pali> did you installed that deb package and rebooted?
Jan 10 11:04:11 <XATRIX> Currently working on
Jan 10 11:31:37 <internetishard> just switched to the nexus4 after all these years on the n900... Wow, if nokia (or another company) kept a phone like the n900 up to date it could totally be everything this thing is (and more)!
Jan 10 11:45:56 <fasta> What do the 100,000 employees of Nokia do?
Jan 10 11:46:18 <fasta> Creating a phone takes perhaps 100 skilled people, marketing an additional 500.
Jan 10 11:46:59 <flux> fasta, what do you base those numbers on?
Jan 10 11:47:19 <flux> but I guess the answer is: the manage other people :P
Jan 10 11:47:26 <flux> (+y)
Jan 10 11:47:41 <fasta> flux: several teams of EE for the hardware and CS people + some UI people  for the software. 
Jan 10 11:48:01 <fasta> I know some one man shows that created cellphones.
Jan 10 11:48:12 <fasta> It's 'commodity technology' almost.
Jan 10 11:48:30 <flux> fasta, did he also create all the software that current mobile phones come with?
Jan 10 11:48:44 <fasta> flux: no, but that already exists now, doesn't it?
Jan 10 11:48:54 <flux> in nokia they keep rewriting them :)
Jan 10 11:48:57 <fasta> flux: i.e. just put Linux on it.
Jan 10 11:49:08 <flux> yes, just putting linux on it solves the software side..
Jan 10 11:49:33 <fasta> flux: creating some touch UI is perhaps a few months of work for one person.
Jan 10 11:49:49 <fasta> I don't get why Ubuntu takes so long, though.
Jan 10 11:50:08 <fasta> Unity is a trivial piece of software and they take ages to make it work.
Jan 10 11:51:03 <fasta> I am not saying that creating the whole of maemo should take just a few months.
Jan 10 11:51:28 <fasta> But 30 or so core developers should be able to create a lot when managed well.
Jan 10 11:52:26 <flux> I shall claim that if it were that easy, there would be more competition
Jan 10 11:52:39 <flux> but we shall see what kind of a mobile phone Jolla has made with relatively little(?) resources
Jan 10 11:53:12 <fasta> flux: AFAIK, the only problem is the patents.
Jan 10 11:53:43 <fasta> Perhaps Nokia should just sell patent protection packages.
Jan 10 11:54:23 <fasta> flux: on Youtube there are videos of people who created alternative mobile UIs for the N900 too.
Jan 10 11:54:52 <flux> fasta, I think the problem is not creating the 90% but, the remaining 10%
Jan 10 11:55:06 <fasta> flux: you mean to make it bug free, etc.?
Jan 10 11:55:14 <fasta> flux: and fast in all cases.
Jan 10 11:55:19 <flux> fasta, yes, make it a polished stable working end product customers want
Jan 10 11:55:27 <fasta> And feature packed.
Jan 10 14:28:57 <jpinx> https browsing as well  https://gaurangkp.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/nokia-https-mitm/
Jan 10 14:29:14 <Apic> B-)
Jan 10 14:29:21 <jpinx> big trouble for nokia if they keep this up :(
Jan 10 14:30:47 <Apic> Ack
Jan 10 14:31:41 <eichi> hello! someone knows something about maemo5 and browser security? I mean: there are not much updates, means its maybe exploitable with some browser engine exploits? someone knows more about this?
Jan 10 14:32:18 <eichi> I think about doing some "business" about my n900, but I'm not that sure, if its a good idea
Jan 10 14:32:31 <eichi> about = with...sorry, bad english
Jan 10 14:36:35 <DocScrutinizer05> eichi: the browser engine is open source and so far no exploits known. Flash plugin however is terribly outdated and seen none of the last 4 years' security updates Adobe published.
Jan 10 14:38:51 <DocScrutinizer05> eichi: check ~cssu, there the cssu team ships security relevant updates when possible, recently we published a fix for the TURKSAT cert security threat
Jan 10 14:38:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cssu
Jan 10 14:38:56 <infobot> methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Jan 10 14:40:36 <eichi> yeah, i use cssu updates allready. I'm just not sure about the browser and someone looks about it anymore
Jan 10 14:42:12 <eichi> http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ this is the source behind the browser, isnt it?
Jan 10 15:03:57 <freemangordon> eichi: if you use CSSU, here https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/microb-engine is the backend source code
Jan 10 15:04:50 <freemangordon> (only for -T and -thumb though, stable is still on stock)
Jan 10 15:06:54 <eichi> thanks, I will look at in some days
Jan 10 15:27:49 <WizardNumberNext> hello freemangordon. I have one question: how to create patch files? I have original vanilia kernel and the one patched with some patches. I actually want to create only one patch (0003 in yours), as I have broken it by accident and had to apply patch by hand.
Jan 10 15:58:13 <fastlane`> pplllll
Jan 10 15:58:25 <fastlane`> can i change the conversation app in n900?
Jan 10 15:58:35 <fastlane`> where should I look for this, is it open source
Jan 10 16:01:07 <Lava_Croft> Completely replace, probably not and iirc the application itself is not open source
Jan 10 16:01:24 <Lava_Croft> But as usual I'm not entirely sure
Jan 10 16:01:33 <Lava_Croft> guyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Jan 10 16:01:42 <fastlane`> i have a lot of conversations, 
Jan 10 16:01:49 <fastlane`> 3 years worth of em i guess
Jan 10 16:02:36 <fastlane`> and i think that maybe the reason my n900 maybe slower
Jan 10 16:03:18 <Lava_Croft> larger database is slower performance :<
Jan 10 16:03:25 <fastlane`> and if delete a conversation from the list, it takes a lot of time for it to disappear and for the rest of the list to adjust to the new position
Jan 10 16:03:32 <fastlane`> true
Jan 10 16:04:29 <Lava_Croft> im nowhere near technical enough to help you beyond 'remove conversations you don't need'
Jan 10 16:04:36 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jan 10 16:05:06 <fastlane`> heh
Jan 10 16:05:10 <fastlane`> hmm
Jan 10 16:05:27 <fastlane`> do u know how to see which process is running behind this app/window
Jan 10 16:06:39 <kerio> fastlane`: afaik the messages are stored in a sqlite db
Jan 10 16:06:48 <kerio> or possibly an EDS db
Jan 10 16:07:14 <fastlane`> hmm
Jan 10 16:08:32 <kerio> it's sqlite
Jan 10 16:08:41 <kerio> .rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db
Jan 10 16:09:42 <fastlane`> cool
Jan 10 16:10:25 <fastlane`> and which executable is it that conversation app is part of
Jan 10 16:11:04 <fastlane`> also, since i dont know this, in linux how wud you investigate such a thing, like given a window find what executeable or library it belongs to
Jan 10 16:11:05 <kerio> rtcom-messaging-ui
Jan 10 16:11:26 <kerio> fastlane`: i'm actually not sure, but you can check the process list
Jan 10 16:11:38 <kerio> from there, you could find out which binary
Jan 10 16:11:44 <kerio> and then check which libraries are used by that binary
Jan 10 16:11:45 <fastlane`> hmm
Jan 10 16:11:57 <fastlane`> ps would do I guess,
Jan 10 16:12:36 <kerio> fastlane`: xdotool getwindowpid
Jan 10 16:22:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<fastlane`> and i think that maybe the reason my n900 maybe slower)) you can bet on that
Jan 10 16:22:55 <fastlane`> hmm
Jan 10 16:23:07 <DocScrutinizer05> fastlane`: it's basically not possible to replace the conversations app
Jan 10 16:23:22 <fastlane`> it loads too much just in the start, i guess it loads just all of the hostory
Jan 10 16:23:32 <fastlane`> what :o why :(
Jan 10 16:23:38 <DocScrutinizer05> and it's closed, like all Nokia frontend/GUI stuff
Jan 10 16:24:29 <luf> fastlane`: do you really need so long history?
Jan 10 16:24:43 <luf> Are you cyborg to list it? :D
Jan 10 16:24:59 <fastlane`> heh
Jan 10 16:25:06 <fastlane`> :(
Jan 10 16:25:23 <fastlane`> hmm
Jan 10 16:25:30 <fasta> Probably old news, but is anything being done to fix this on the N900? http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/10/1356228/nokia-admits-decrypting-user-data-claiming-it-isnt-looking
Jan 10 16:26:06 <fasta> Aren't there like laws against corporate espionage?
Jan 10 16:26:06 <fastlane`> there was this nice ap, glogarchive, but it kinda crashes on me.
Jan 10 16:26:35 <DocScrutinizer05> the problem is from two causes I guess: 1) sqlite performance on huge ~user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db, 2) conversation app retrieving *all* conversations *via dbus* from rtcom process
Jan 10 16:26:53 <fastlane`> so i think, what shud be done is a custom app to read/search archived conversations, while leave default conversations app for handling sms etc
Jan 10 16:27:16 <DocScrutinizer05> good plan
Jan 10 16:27:43 <fastlane`> run the archiver every month
Jan 10 16:27:55 * fastlane` pats n900
Jan 10 16:28:07 <DocScrutinizer05> it's probably possible to export conversations to some plaintext format or whatever, exploiting sqlite cmdline frontend on .rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db
Jan 10 16:28:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: that would require someone who groks SQL
Jan 10 16:28:35 <ShadowJK> fasta, only relevant for Asha and similar things
Jan 10 16:28:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh yes, in your archives there should be plaintext conversations in one of the tarballs already
Jan 10 16:28:50 <ShadowJK> Opera Mobile does the same thing with "Opera Turbo" enabled, except it's opera servers doing it
Jan 10 16:29:28 <fastlane`> el-v1.db is just 8mb :o
Jan 10 16:29:31 <fastlane`> for me
Jan 10 16:29:38 <DocScrutinizer05> *just*???
Jan 10 16:29:42 <DocScrutinizer05> dafaq
Jan 10 16:29:46 <fastlane`> :D
Jan 10 16:29:49 <Skry> :D
Jan 10 16:29:51 <fastlane`> oh
Jan 10 16:30:03 <fastlane`> so thats a lot of whole amount of text data i guess :$
Jan 10 16:30:09 <kerio> 72704B here
Jan 10 16:30:22 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: will it be rebuilt on boot?
Jan 10 16:30:24 <fastlane`> ~70k
Jan 10 16:30:38 <DocScrutinizer05> -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 642048 2013-01-10 17:17 /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db
Jan 10 16:31:47 <fastlane`> and what about this first time launchign of the Contacts app
Jan 10 16:31:56 <fastlane`> 300 contacts shudnt be much, what is it doing
Jan 10 16:32:03 <DocScrutinizer05> hm?
Jan 10 16:32:14 <ShadowJK> fasta, calling it an "attack" is kinda sensationalist and dumb. The "Browser" on those phones isn't a browser, it's a thin client to access the browser which runs on Nokia servers?
Jan 10 16:32:20 <kerio> fastlane`: you mean the event log?
Jan 10 16:32:30 <kerio> the one that's stored in ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db?
Jan 10 16:32:45 <fasta> ShadowJK: which browser is it then?
Jan 10 16:32:54 <fastlane`> oh no, a different thing, just came to my mind since i was talking about conversations,
Jan 10 16:32:58 <kerio> the one that's 114 times bigger than mine?
Jan 10 16:33:01 <fastlane`> the default Contact app of maemo
Jan 10 16:33:01 <fasta> ShadowJK: if it is like opera turbo it doesn't surprise me a lot.
Jan 10 16:33:07 <ShadowJK> fasta, openwave or whatever?
Jan 10 16:33:07 <kerio> oh, the contacts
Jan 10 16:33:12 <fastlane`> yea :)
Jan 10 16:33:14 <kerio> that's an EDS db
Jan 10 16:33:15 <fastlane`> lol
Jan 10 16:33:17 <fasta> ShadowJK: but even then it should say that at startup.
Jan 10 16:33:19 <kerio> i thought you meant phone
Jan 10 16:33:30 <fasta> ShadowJK: so, it's not even on the N900?
Jan 10 16:33:36 <ShadowJK> fasta, no
Jan 10 16:33:54 <Pali> fasta, above problem is not on n900
Jan 10 16:33:59 <fasta> ShadowJK: ok, then it's semi-sensationalist.
Jan 10 16:34:09 <ShadowJK> fasta, they fucking mention it in the bloody tv adverts, it's a big selling point, faster browser that uses less bandwidth
Jan 10 16:34:11 <kerio> hm, maybe it's not even an EDS
Jan 10 16:34:18 <kerio> i'm not sure what osso-abook uses
Jan 10 16:34:34 <fasta> ShadowJK: perhaps they also mention it in the EULA.
Jan 10 16:34:36 <DocScrutinizer05> EDS
Jan 10 16:34:43 <fasta> ShadowJK: or some similar document.
Jan 10 16:34:51 <fasta> I can't imagine that they don't do that.
Jan 10 16:35:06 <fasta> Otherwise it would be a legal suicide.
Jan 10 16:35:17 <ShadowJK> fasta, btw, there's that Nokia Email thing too which does similar things
Jan 10 16:35:49 <ShadowJK> I forget the name of it
Jan 10 16:35:58 <ShadowJK> "Nokia Messaging" perhaps
Jan 10 16:36:42 <ShadowJK> When you sign up for it and give it the user/pass to your email, Nokia Servers access your email, and use a more power and bandwidth efficient protocol to deliver it to your phone
Jan 10 16:37:07 <DocScrutinizer05> when you use a concept much like VNC to browse the web, you shouldn't blame the VNCserver when it does MITM
Jan 10 16:37:11 <ShadowJK> The nokia server handles your shitty email server, and delivers it as push-email in a power efficient manner
Jan 10 16:37:50 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jan 10 16:38:20 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, what is the best irc client for n900?
Jan 10 16:38:21 <DocScrutinizer05> common saerver-client design pattern
Jan 10 16:38:43 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: in my book still xchat, YMMV
Jan 10 16:38:47 <totalizator> Pali: irrgu
Jan 10 16:39:12 <totalizator> you can close UI and it runs in background
Jan 10 16:39:32 <DocScrutinizer05> what's the use of *that*?
Jan 10 16:40:03 <totalizator> Pali: *irGGu 
Jan 10 16:40:14 <fastlane`> hmm running in the backgroun and if it consumes less battery would be good,
Jan 10 16:40:30 <totalizator> aye
Jan 10 16:40:32 <vi____> irssi!
Jan 10 16:40:37 <fastlane`> while still logging chat.
Jan 10 16:40:39 <kerio> Pali: xchat
Jan 10 16:40:40 <totalizator> and irssi :)
Jan 10 16:40:44 <Skry> irssi
Jan 10 16:40:48 <kerio> fastlane`: that's called a bouncer
Jan 10 16:40:50 <DocScrutinizer05> it won't consume less power for just closing the GUI instead of putting it to background
Jan 10 16:40:58 <Pali> ok, going to install xchat
Jan 10 16:41:13 <vi____> only kidding, xchat beats irssi if you use docscrutinizers config files.
Jan 10 16:41:18 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: you'll want my xchat config file
Jan 10 16:41:22 * kerio notices that doc+kerio >= vi+skry+totalizator :3
Jan 10 16:41:31 <fastlane`> i didnt have access to any bouncer kerio , so was using xchat to keep it online/running all the time, wud consume a lot of battery.
Jan 10 16:41:34 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe, vi____ beat me to it
Jan 10 16:41:55 <vi____> However page up down appears to not work in xchat.  Which sucks.
Jan 10 16:42:03 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, where is your config file? :-)
Jan 10 16:42:13 <fastlane`> ok upload the config files!
Jan 10 16:42:18 <vi____> ~jrtools
Jan 10 16:42:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Jan 10 16:42:20 <infobot> cp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts-maemobackup && echo "188.117.59.202 wiki.maemo.org" >> /etc/hosts;  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Jan 10 16:42:21 <infobot> cp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts-maemobackup && echo "188.117.59.202 wiki.maemo.org" >> /etc/hosts;  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Jan 10 16:42:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ..
Jan 10 16:42:31 <vi____> ~tm0
Jan 10 16:42:32 <infobot> from memory, tm0 is trolls, mooses and orangutans
Jan 10 16:42:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/
Jan 10 16:42:53 * kerio is partial to nokia sans semibold 14
Jan 10 16:42:59 <kerio> or possibly 12
Jan 10 16:43:07 <kerio> nope, 14
Jan 10 16:43:12 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/
Jan 10 16:43:30 <totalizator> fot is the biggest issue for me, everything is too small, hyh
Jan 10 16:43:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrxchat is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/
Jan 10 16:43:40 <infobot> i already had it that way, DocScrutinizer05
Jan 10 16:43:45 <kerio> ahaha
Jan 10 16:43:45 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
Jan 10 16:43:57 <kerio> totalizator: having to use osso-xterm for irc would suck
Jan 10 16:44:06 <kerio> you don't really need a monospaced font
Jan 10 16:44:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo jrxchat 
Jan 10 16:44:07 <infobot> jrxchat -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Tue Jul  3 23:24:17 2012 (190 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by DocScrutinizer05 at Sun Sep 16 13:57:58 2012.
Jan 10 16:44:26 <Pali> has xchat SASL support?
Jan 10 16:44:40 <kerio> Pali: hm, not out of the box i think
Jan 10 16:44:43 <ShadowJK> fasta, oh it's available as a download for Windows Phone too, the app "Xpress Browser"
Jan 10 16:44:44 <kerio> Pali: http://freenode.net/sasl/sasl-xchat.shtml
Jan 10 16:45:01 <kerio> i use znc
Jan 10 16:45:05 <kerio> which is the shit
Jan 10 16:45:14 <totalizator> kerio: um , why?
Jan 10 16:45:16 <Pali> ok, how to configure xchat?
Jan 10 16:45:22 <Pali> where to store that files?
Jan 10 16:45:34 <DocScrutinizer05> in ~user/.xchat2/
Jan 10 16:45:51 <kerio> the default config really isn't that bad
Jan 10 16:45:53 <ShadowJK> fasta, oh also, when they released it, they made this page http://www.developer.nokia.com/Develop/Series_40/Nokia_Browser_for_Series_40/
Jan 10 16:46:04 <ShadowJK> it has fucking pictures, with arrows, showing data going through nokia servers, for fucks sake :-)
Jan 10 16:46:41 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: you could do a diff between those already there and mine
Jan 10 16:48:35 <DocScrutinizer05> >>The Nokia Xpress Browser comprises a client and a cloud-based proxy service.<<
Jan 10 16:49:02 <DocScrutinizer05> please remind me why we discuss this here?
Jan 10 16:49:25 <DocScrutinizer05> after all it's Series40
Jan 10 16:50:50 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, how to turn off any sound & vibrate notification?
Jan 10 16:51:22 <DocScrutinizer05> the default one is courtesy cehteh, see ~jrtools
Jan 10 16:51:43 <DocScrutinizer05> my own scheme is around the notifier.sh scriptie
Jan 10 16:51:55 <kerio> damn, i seem to lose around 15 seconds for each day
Jan 10 16:52:03 <Pali> ok, I disabled in notifier.sh
Jan 10 16:52:09 <DocScrutinizer05> and exploits sound playback binary of xcaht
Jan 10 16:52:46 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: dman, I seem to lose 29h per day
Jan 10 16:53:00 <kerio> i meant on the n900 RTC
Jan 10 16:53:15 <kerio> hm, i wonder if ntpd does hwclock --systohc automatically
Jan 10 16:53:30 <kerio> nope
Jan 10 16:53:35 <DocScrutinizer05> nope
Jan 10 16:53:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ntpd does 11minute mode
Jan 10 16:53:44 <kerio> no, wait, i *gained* around 15 seconds
Jan 10 16:53:52 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: no, i'm manually running the ntpd oneshot
Jan 10 16:54:03 <DocScrutinizer05> then it doesn't touch RTC
Jan 10 16:54:25 <DocScrutinizer05> you should always call it in oneliners, linked &&
Jan 10 16:54:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ntpd --foo && hwclock --systohc
Jan 10 16:54:47 <kerio> yep
Jan 10 16:55:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh wait
Jan 10 16:55:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ntpd --foo && hwclock --systohc --noadjfile
Jan 10 16:55:43 <kerio> there's no such thing as an adjfile in the busybox hwclock
Jan 10 16:55:50 <DocScrutinizer05> gooooood
Jan 10 16:56:23 <kerio> so yeah
Jan 10 16:56:24 <DocScrutinizer05> adjfile of hwclock is da fekking BS
Jan 10 16:57:01 <kerio> do you reckon it would be good to run the syncing automatically every $time?
Jan 10 16:57:05 <DocScrutinizer05> clearly overengineered to fubar state
Jan 10 16:57:08 <kerio> or possibly on every connection
Jan 10 16:57:19 <DocScrutinizer05> the latter
Jan 10 16:58:03 <DocScrutinizer05> add it to ifup orwhatsitcalled
Jan 10 16:58:40 <DocScrutinizer05> and NEVER do a hwclock --systohc on system shutdown
Jan 10 17:00:03 <DocScrutinizer05> on system shutdown your system time is more likely to be off than at any other point in time (except immediately after bootup)
Jan 10 17:00:17 <kerio> i don't think icd2 calls ifup
Jan 10 17:00:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I think it does call some script, no clue what'S the exact name
Jan 10 17:01:13 <Pali> kerio, how /load working?
Jan 10 17:01:22 <Pali> how to autoload sasl plugin?
Jan 10 17:01:24 <kerio> idk, i don't use plugins in xchat
Jan 10 17:01:56 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess xchat autoloads all available plugins at startup
Jan 10 17:02:02 <DocScrutinizer05> refer to
Jan 10 17:02:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Jan 10 17:02:07 <infobot> cp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts-maemobackup && echo "188.117.59.202 wiki.maemo.org" >> /etc/hosts;  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Jan 10 17:02:16 <DocScrutinizer05> about notification plugin
Jan 10 17:03:14 <DocScrutinizer05> # disable annoying xchat notifications introduced with some more recent update
Jan 10 17:03:15 <DocScrutinizer05> # goes along with 'undocumented' command /notify_mode -vl - thanks cehteh :-/
Jan 10 17:03:18 <DocScrutinizer05> mv /usr/lib/xchat/plugins /usr/lib/xchat/plugins_disabled
Jan 10 17:03:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^ quick&dirty
Jan 10 17:04:24 <DocScrutinizer05> makes me think xchat autoloads everything in  /usr/lib/xchat/plugins
Jan 10 17:06:04 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: ^^^
Jan 10 17:08:47 <Pali> ok, perl sasl plugin require perl xchat.pm module
Jan 10 17:08:51 <Pali> and that is missing :-(
Jan 10 17:08:59 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jan 10 17:09:09 * ShadowJK used /notify_mode to adjust notifications
Jan 10 17:09:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: that's not sticky
Jan 10 17:09:36 <ShadowJK> it is for me
Jan 10 17:09:43 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Jan 10 17:10:21 <Pali> http://bluevandevelopment.com/blog/2011/02/03/xchat-sasl-and-gcc-on-the-n900/
Jan 10 17:10:33 <DocScrutinizer05> OOOOH maybe I got fooled by general non-stickiness of xchat settings when xchat killed instead of ended regularly
Jan 10 17:10:38 <ShadowJK> Though xchat doesn't save any settings when you change settings. Only saves on clean exit, or if you do /save
Jan 10 17:10:41 <ShadowJK> iirc
Jan 10 17:11:02 <DocScrutinizer05> faster :-P
Jan 10 17:11:56 <DocScrutinizer05> didn't know about /save though
Jan 10 17:12:19 <r00t|home> ShadowJK: there's a menu option to save on exit and save now
Jan 10 17:12:28 <DocScrutinizer05> wut?
Jan 10 17:12:44 <DocScrutinizer05> where?
Jan 10 17:13:17 <r00t|home> settings -> save settings (on exit [] )
Jan 10 17:13:20 <r00t|home> settings -> save settings (on exit []  | now)
Jan 10 17:13:28 <DocScrutinizer05> oooooh sweet
Jan 10 17:13:43 * DocScrutinizer05 checks
Jan 10 17:14:06 <r00t|home> i used to have save on exit disabled on my compaq pda, because writing to flash was so slow(?) that xchat would hang for many seconds on exit
Jan 10 17:14:53 <DocScrutinizer05> can't find it in "settings" menu. Do you mean "preferences"?
Jan 10 17:15:22 <r00t|home> note that i am still using xchat1, maybe they removed it from xchat2
Jan 10 17:15:24 <DocScrutinizer05> N900 xchat is a tad different than usual laptop xchat
Jan 10 17:15:55 <kerio> not by much, really
Jan 10 17:15:58 <r00t|home> it is at the bottom of the settings menu, on my desktop version
Jan 10 17:16:08 <DocScrutinizer05> not on N900
Jan 10 17:16:10 <DocScrutinizer05> :-/
Jan 10 17:16:48 <r00t|home> they moved some entries to "advanced" and removed the "save settings" ones...
Jan 10 17:16:58 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jan 10 17:17:10 <DocScrutinizer05> they = RST38h
Jan 10 17:17:11 <ShadowJK> I dont have it on desktop xchat here
Jan 10 17:17:15 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess
Jan 10 17:17:41 <Pali> seems that above ^^^^ C plugin is loaded
Jan 10 17:22:53 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, how to change irc server port?
Jan 10 17:23:05 <Pali> it trying 9999
Jan 10 17:23:13 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: in network settings
Jan 10 17:23:37 <Pali> there is no port settings
Jan 10 17:23:39 <Pali> only server
Jan 10 17:23:45 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc appending /<port> to server URL
Jan 10 17:24:17 <DocScrutinizer05> 9999 ? o.O
Jan 10 17:24:21 <Pali> ok
Jan 10 17:24:25 <Pali> thanks :-)
Jan 10 17:24:29 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds quite non-standard for IRC
Jan 10 17:24:43 <DocScrutinizer05> aah, you maybe trying ssl or sth?
Jan 10 17:24:46 <Pali> added /7000 and started connecting
Jan 10 17:27:38 <Pali_> nice, connected
Jan 10 17:27:43 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Jan 10 17:28:16 <Pali_> maybe I will push that C sasl plugin to extras
Jan 10 17:28:26 <Pali_> when extras will work again
Jan 10 17:28:27 <DocScrutinizer05> good idea
Jan 10 17:29:19 <Pali_> so when will be autobuilder online?
Jan 10 17:29:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali_: please check new IP if autobuilder is working again
Jan 10 17:29:54 <Pali_> ok
Jan 10 17:53:10 <Pali> how to set autojoin to channels in xchat?
Jan 10 17:54:36 <r00t|home> Pali: in the server list
Jan 10 17:55:01 <r00t|home> or "network list"
Jan 10 17:55:18 <r00t|home> on the "connecting (2)" tab, very intuitive
Jan 10 17:56:00 <Pali> thanks
Jan 10 17:57:05 <Pali> working
Jan 10 17:57:13 <r00t|home> i guess you have to have used xchat before to know where to look
Jan 10 17:58:55 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: or on context menu of chantab list
Jan 10 17:59:30 <DocScrutinizer05> (only works in tab view, not in treeview)
Jan 10 18:00:05 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: when you're using my config, click and hold on tab on left side
Jan 10 18:00:20 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed convenient
Jan 10 18:00:35 <kerio> i think i never tried tab view on the n900
Jan 10 18:01:33 <kerio> ...it's like tree, isn't it
Jan 10 18:02:23 <Pali> it is possible to change background color of line?
Jan 10 18:02:37 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it's somehow consuming more real estate due to frame around each tab, and is has no treeview
Jan 10 18:03:01 <kerio> i think i'll go with hidden tabs actually
Jan 10 18:03:03 <kerio> moar space for text
Jan 10 18:03:04 <DocScrutinizer05> and it has context menu
Jan 10 18:03:11 <kerio> hell, i could show the userlist
Jan 10 18:03:15 <DocScrutinizer05> which is why I use it
Jan 10 18:03:18 <kerio> it never does any good though
Jan 10 18:03:25 <kerio> context menu for what?
Jan 10 18:04:03 <DocScrutinizer05> to add to favorites, to enable/disable join/quit/nick events, etc
Jan 10 18:05:01 <kerio> favourites are meaningless for me, anyway
Jan 10 18:05:10 <DocScrutinizer05> same here ;-)
Jan 10 18:05:16 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks ZNC
Jan 10 18:05:27 <kerio> there's just znc's joined, stickied channels that are attached, and znc's joined, stickied channels that aren't attached
Jan 10 18:05:32 <kerio> but will attach on the first message
Jan 10 18:06:34 <DocScrutinizer05> uhum, well here ZNC always makes xchat join all channels, probbaly due to buffer playback
Jan 10 18:06:54 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: with autoattach?
Jan 10 18:07:06 <DocScrutinizer05> :shrug: 
Jan 10 18:07:07 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: /znc detach *
Jan 10 18:07:09 <kerio> :D
Jan 10 18:07:17 <DocScrutinizer05> i rarely look at my ZNC settings
Jan 10 18:07:22 <kerio> there's no way to undo that, though
Jan 10 18:07:47 <DocScrutinizer05> I think it's ZNC stickychan module
Jan 10 18:08:04 <kerio> stickychan will keep you in channels
Jan 10 18:08:07 <kerio> but will let you detach
Jan 10 18:08:13 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
Jan 10 18:08:19 <kerio> it's more that you can't actually part them on the server side
Jan 10 18:08:35 <Pali> when I'm closing xchat it ask me for minimalize... what it is?
Jan 10 18:08:44 <kerio> Pali: something that doesn't really work on the n900
Jan 10 18:09:01 <kerio> unless you install the freedesktop-compatible status tray status menu applet
Jan 10 18:09:19 <DocScrutinizer05> which you probably don't want to
Jan 10 18:09:25 <Pali> I saw some dead process
Jan 10 18:09:41 <kerio> well, it's just one extra button in the status menu
Jan 10 18:09:49 <Pali> but next start it will load new instance...
Jan 10 18:10:05 * kerio has *eight* entries already
Jan 10 18:10:16 <Pali> it should work like other hildon launcher apps
Jan 10 18:10:34 <Pali> it will check via dbus if app running
Jan 10 18:10:42 <Pali> and if not it will spawn it
Jan 10 18:10:53 <Pali> if yes show main window
Jan 10 18:11:09 <Pali> and libosso has wrappers for that...
Jan 10 18:11:10 <kerio> plus the hidden flashlight, fmtx, bt audio status, usb mode, bt transfer, sync status
Jan 10 18:11:18 <kerio> i need a bigger status menu D:
Jan 10 18:12:17 <Pali> kerio, if somebody rewrite nokia usb plugin I'd like to merge it with my usbmode
Jan 10 18:12:24 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: nfc, I never actually use it. Xchat running here basically all the time. When I close it, I really close it. then I eventually have to click my desktop shortcut to start it again
Jan 10 18:12:41 <kerio> Pali: isn't it vaguely more logical to merge it with the battery status, though?
Jan 10 18:12:52 <DocScrutinizer05> (xchat)
Jan 10 18:13:00 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: yeah but you're cheating, you use a bouncer :)
Jan 10 18:13:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I didn't during first maybe 6 months
Jan 10 18:13:58 <Pali> what is bouncer?
Jan 10 18:14:12 <DocScrutinizer05> and mostly I changed to bouncer to save other users in all channels from the frequent re-joining events
Jan 10 18:14:13 <kerio> Pali: something to cheat at #idlerpg
Jan 10 18:14:35 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: e.g. ZNC is a IRC bouncer
Jan 10 18:14:37 <kerio> and also to get 24/7 irc logs
Jan 10 18:14:57 <kerio> your bouncer connects to IRC, you connect to your bouncer as if it's the IRC server
Jan 10 18:15:05 <kerio> it keeps the connection open and the channels joined
Jan 10 18:15:09 <DocScrutinizer05> so basically a proxy
Jan 10 18:15:16 <Pali> ok
Jan 10 18:15:20 <kerio> usually does stuff like replaying the messages you missed from the channels you're in
Jan 10 18:15:29 <kerio> and some more neat stuff too
Jan 10 18:15:46 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: you ever see DocScrutinizer51 leaving/joining?
Jan 10 18:16:08 <Pali> no
Jan 10 18:16:19 <kerio> it's because doc has NO LIFE
Jan 10 18:16:30 <Pali> :D:D
Jan 10 18:16:33 <kerio> or possibly because it's actually a bouncer
Jan 10 18:16:38 <DocScrutinizer05> it's because I have proxies :-P
Jan 10 18:17:39 <Pali> but then I do not see when you are connected...
Jan 10 18:17:56 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm always connected - simple as that
Jan 10 18:19:58 <DocScrutinizer05> just that IRC messages sometimes are not buffered in xchat buffer when I'm not watching
Jan 10 18:20:34 <DocScrutinizer05> but they are buffered anyway, and when I start watching again, they are presented to me no matter what
Jan 10 18:21:09 <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, but I do not know when you read messages...
Jan 10 18:21:17 <DocScrutinizer05> you never know
Jan 10 18:21:51 <DocScrutinizer05> do I know if you're looking at your screen this moment? No I don't
Jan 10 18:21:53 <Pali> and I do not know if you can repoly or not...
Jan 10 18:22:50 <DocScrutinizer05> but with me using a bouncer you can be sure I'll notice anything you post the next time I look at my screen
Jan 10 18:23:07 <Pali> but when I'm offline, then I'm not reading messages for sure
Jan 10 18:23:49 <Pali> and bouncer disable this condition
Jan 10 18:24:05 <kerio> Pali: yeah but doc *will* read every message eventually
Jan 10 18:24:48 <kerio> besides, i'm not sure if doc uses it but znc has a module called simple_away that sets your away status to "away" if no client is connected
Jan 10 18:30:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not using that, for vaious reasons: a) it's a privacy issue to me, b) it generally sucks, particularly when changing your nick or - worse - sending away msg
Jan 10 18:31:05 <DocScrutinizer05> c) other considerations of more the technical kind
Jan 10 18:31:18 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: not changing your nick
Jan 10 18:31:21 <kerio> changing the away status
Jan 10 18:31:29 <kerio> there *is* such a thing in IRC
Jan 10 18:31:31 <kerio> :)
Jan 10 18:31:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I know
Jan 10 18:32:08 <DocScrutinizer05> it frequently makes me angry when I query somebody who forgot to reset his away status
Jan 10 18:32:26 <kerio> gregoa: ping
Jan 10 18:32:26 <gregoa> kerio: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
Jan 10 18:32:30 <kerio> or ^this
Jan 10 18:32:38 <DocScrutinizer05> which is more usual than not to forget it
Jan 10 19:20:12 <fastlane`> is:
Jan 10 19:20:18 <fastlane`> lshal|grep battery 
Jan 10 19:20:21 <fastlane`> reliable?
Jan 10 19:21:04 <fastlane`> cuz i got a battery full msg, but bettery.charge_level.percentage is showing 43
Jan 10 19:21:54 <WizardNumberNext> fastlane: what is voltage and current_now?
Jan 10 19:23:15 <WizardNumberNext> and what is your charge_full and charge_now?
Jan 10 19:23:25 <fastlane`>   battery.voltage.current = 4175  (0x104f)  (int)
Jan 10 19:23:25 <fastlane`>   battery.voltage.design = 4200  (0x1068)  (int)
Jan 10 19:23:48 <WizardNumberNext> is it on charger or something?
Jan 10 19:23:57 <WizardNumberNext> I never got so high voltage
Jan 10 19:24:20 <SpeedEvil> lithium ion will be fully charged at that
Jan 10 19:24:27 <SpeedEvil> a minimum of 80%
Jan 10 19:24:41 <WizardNumberNext> even when current_now was very close to zero and still on minus
Jan 10 19:24:48 <fastlane`> connected to laptop
Jan 10 19:25:20 <WizardNumberNext> this would explain it - slow charge allowed it to surpass magical 4.166v
Jan 10 19:26:08 <fastlane`> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1517786/
Jan 10 19:27:21 <DocScrutinizer05> fastlane`: no, lshal is not exactly reliable, it often has huge delay to update values
Jan 10 19:27:29 <WizardNumberNext> fastlane: cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/uevent
Jan 10 19:27:38 <fastlane`> checking
Jan 10 19:28:15 <WizardNumberNext> if you do not have file, then modprobe bq27x00-battery
Jan 10 19:28:59 <DocScrutinizer05> no, bq27x00-battery module is of unclear status at best
Jan 10 19:29:28 <fastlane`> /sys/class doesnt have any power_supply in it
Jan 10 19:29:42 <DocScrutinizer05> for older powerkernels it's even STRONGLY deprecated
Jan 10 19:29:55 <DocScrutinizer05> use bq27200.sh
Jan 10 19:29:56 <kerio> the bq27k/bq24k kernel modules are still somewhat experimental
Jan 10 19:30:05 <WizardNumberNext> it does work for me on pk-51
Jan 10 19:30:06 <fastlane`> i'm running powerkernel 50
Jan 10 19:30:16 <kerio> run something that uses i2c, like bq27200.sh
Jan 10 19:31:01 <WizardNumberNext> it doesn't lie for me
Jan 10 19:31:07 <DocScrutinizer05> PK50 should come with bq27x00 module blacklisted afaik, and for a reason
Jan 10 19:31:25 <WizardNumberNext> it is blacklisted
Jan 10 19:31:32 <WizardNumberNext> I load it by /etc/modules
Jan 10 19:31:40 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: nothing loads those automatically
Jan 10 19:31:49 <DocScrutinizer05> you have read the BIG FAT WARNING?
Jan 10 19:31:59 <WizardNumberNext> where?
Jan 10 19:32:19 <kerio> hm, when installing KP maybe
Jan 10 19:32:30 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno where, probably on KP49/50
Jan 10 19:32:34 <WizardNumberNext> normaly I ignore warnings
Jan 10 19:32:45 <kerio> that explains *so* many things
Jan 10 19:33:08 <WizardNumberNext> I have enough experience to live with problems and solve them
Jan 10 19:33:46 <kerio> besides, loading those modules at boot time will royally fuck up with bme
Jan 10 19:33:56 <WizardNumberNext> it will
Jan 10 19:34:02 <WizardNumberNext> I already know it
Jan 10 19:34:05 <DocScrutinizer05> so you're in for a real surprise, in former kernels they fucked up I2C locking, this opening race condition resulting in even hw damage. In newer kernels they removed that idiocy, thus bq27x00 module will lock the I2C for that chip, and eventually bme will fail
Jan 10 19:34:24 <WizardNumberNext> n900 would get into end-less loop of rebooting
Jan 10 19:34:52 <WizardNumberNext> I do not care about BME
Jan 10 19:35:05 <DocScrutinizer05> n900 might emit blue magic smoke, depending on which I2C communication got messed up, when locking been disabled
Jan 10 19:35:41 <WizardNumberNext> then this explains, why from time I switched to bq27200 instead of BME my N900 doesn't reboot anymore (only dies, when battery reaches 3.2 or bellow)
Jan 10 19:35:50 <fastlane`> is there anything that wud force lshal to update its values
Jan 10 19:35:51 <fastlane`> ?
Jan 10 19:36:15 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc status battery applet updates hal
Jan 10 19:36:36 <WizardNumberNext> by the way I tried all the scripts to charge battery and check it health state and BME was in a way, even when it was STOPed
Jan 10 19:36:51 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: no it wasn't
Jan 10 19:36:51 <DocScrutinizer05> eh?
Jan 10 19:37:01 <kerio> bme is harmless, when stopped
Jan 10 19:37:33 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, when `stop`ed not when `kill -SIGSTOP`ed
Jan 10 19:37:54 <WizardNumberNext> maybe it is harmless, but after few seconds N900 would reboot, no matter what I would do, even I wouls start it back
Jan 10 19:38:15 <kerio> yep, you SIGSTOPped it
Jan 10 19:38:27 <WizardNumberNext> I know how to pause process and how to unpause it - if I don't remember I see into man kill
Jan 10 19:38:33 <kerio> when people say to stop bme, they mean `stop bme`
Jan 10 19:38:37 <DocScrutinizer05> no you evidently don't
Jan 10 19:38:37 <kerio> aka `initctl stop bme`
Jan 10 19:39:39 <fastlane`> i did a lshal -m
Jan 10 19:39:42 <DocScrutinizer05> believe me, I also know about kill  -SIGSTOP since ~30 years
Jan 10 19:39:53 <WizardNumberNext> anyway I wasn't able to use any of those scripts and now I can see real values and it does charge and discharge properly, not like with BME
Jan 10 19:39:54 <fastlane`> and the voltage.current is changing after every few seconds
Jan 10 19:40:07 <kerio> i, too, know about kill -STOP, but not since ~30 years because i'm not old enough
Jan 10 19:40:09 <fastlane`> minuttes*
Jan 10 19:40:13 <WizardNumberNext> doc are you UNIX user?
Jan 10 19:40:32 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jan 10 19:40:45 <kerio> fastlane`: afaik hald-addon-bme is responsible for updating the data in hal
Jan 10 19:40:53 <DocScrutinizer05> rather *NIX admin
Jan 10 19:41:06 <WizardNumberNext> this explains your old knowledge (doesn't mean bad, just old)
Jan 10 19:41:20 <fastlane`> kerio, that needs to be installed or is it already there, i'm not familiar with it
Jan 10 19:41:35 <kerio> it's stock
Jan 10 19:41:40 <WizardNumberNext> doc, I am not only GNU/Linux user - I am admin as well - have 3 servers under me at the moment
Jan 10 19:42:15 <DocScrutinizer05> you need to accept that maemo is a tiny bit different than any sane unix admin would expect
Jan 10 19:42:30 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes that's annoying, but it doesn't help
Jan 10 19:42:58 <WizardNumberNext> fastlane: bq27200 DEVICE (battery monitor, which is on battery) is updating something like every 60 seconds (not sure about how often)
Jan 10 19:43:02 <DocScrutinizer05> bme anyway gets started by dsmetool, via initctl
Jan 10 19:43:18 <DocScrutinizer05> so stopping it makes dsme angry and results in reboot
Jan 10 19:43:37 <DocScrutinizer05> you need to shut down the service by issuing `stop bme`
Jan 10 19:43:38 <WizardNumberNext> I already dug it somewhere about dsme and bme
Jan 10 19:43:48 <WizardNumberNext> that explains problems
Jan 10 19:44:24 <WizardNumberNext> there's too much of dependency on low-level
Jan 10 19:44:31 <WizardNumberNext> I would never like
Jan 10 19:44:34 <WizardNumberNext> it
Jan 10 19:44:52 <DocScrutinizer05> battery is lowlevel :-)
Jan 10 19:45:08 <Pali> bme is not started by dsme
Jan 10 19:45:17 <DocScrutinizer05> actually bme is way too "high2 a level for decent battery management
Jan 10 19:45:18 <Pali> but started by upstart
Jan 10 19:45:30 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: oh?
Jan 10 19:45:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I thought upstart using dsmetool to start bme
Jan 10 19:45:52 <Pali> there is upstart script which reboot device if bme was not stopped by upstart
Jan 10 19:46:05 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jan 10 19:46:19 <WizardNumberNext> Pali that is very usefull knowledge
Jan 10 19:46:31 <DocScrutinizer05> and there's IPC between dsme and bme to assure bme is alive
Jan 10 19:46:35 <Pali> upstart script touching some file when starting and stopping bme
Jan 10 19:46:47 <Pali> and calling some pre/post scripts
Jan 10 19:46:48 <DocScrutinizer05> when you kill -sigstop bme, dsme gets angry
Jan 10 19:47:22 <Pali> and if you kill bme process then prestop script is not called
Jan 10 19:47:29 <DocScrutinizer05> at least that's what I seem to recall how things work
Jan 10 19:47:34 <Pali> stopping file is not created
Jan 10 19:47:57 <Pali> and in poststop script is reboot command
Jan 10 19:49:15 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's all kinda correct when killing bme, not though when sigstopping bme process
Jan 10 19:49:48 <Pali> stopsig should work
Jan 10 19:50:16 <Pali> upstart should not handle stopsig
Jan 10 19:50:19 <DocScrutinizer05> kill -sigstop bme causing reboot after 60s
Jan 10 19:50:24 <DocScrutinizer05> via dsme
Jan 10 19:50:44 <DocScrutinizer05> try it if you don't believe me
Jan 10 19:52:13 <WizardNumberNext> Pali: he is right - I would always get reboot after "killall -STOP bme_rx-51'
Jan 10 19:55:20 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: you're also right, event.d/bme directly calls "exec /usr/sbin/bme_RX-51"
Jan 10 19:55:56 <DocScrutinizer05> then bme talks to dsme directly via IPC, to enable monitoring watchdog
Jan 10 20:06:12 <Pali> so then upstart handle also sigstop
Jan 10 20:06:43 <DocScrutinizer05> you think upstart chatting with bme via IPC?
Jan 10 20:09:28 <DocScrutinizer05> PPID of bme_rx51 = 1
Jan 10 20:09:32 <DocScrutinizer05> aka init
Jan 10 20:10:10 <DocScrutinizer05> but I don't think init is doing watchdog monitoring of bme process
Jan 10 20:12:02 <gregoa> kerio: :) (and (re)setting away should happen automigically, everything else makes no sense)
Jan 10 20:13:58 <DocScrutinizer05> some years back when investigating how to operate bq24150 chip, we had some strace bme logs, and I think I recall it talking to dsme via a socket
Jan 10 20:31:58 <WizardNumberNext> I am interested, if there is any use of GPGPU on SGX for/on maemo
Jan 10 20:32:48 <freemangordon>  GPGPU? you mean something like CUDA?
Jan 10 20:33:05 <WizardNumberNext> yes, I mean something like CUDA
Jan 10 20:33:20 <freemangordon> never heard of anything like that
Jan 10 20:33:39 <WizardNumberNext> TI states in their datasheet for omap34xx, that SGX does have such capability
Jan 10 20:34:02 <freemangordon> why one should need GPU to perform such tasks, when we have DSP 
Jan 10 20:34:20 <WizardNumberNext> just matter of curiosity
Jan 10 20:34:31 <kerio> freemangordon: why not?
Jan 10 20:34:35 <freemangordon> which is way more powerful than GPU afaik
Jan 10 20:34:42 <freemangordon> kerio: ^^^
Jan 10 20:34:45 <kerio> video on dsp, protein folding on sgx
Jan 10 20:34:52 <kerio> pulseaudio on cpu
Jan 10 20:34:56 <freemangordon> kerio: aah, yes :D:D:D
Jan 10 20:35:02 <WizardNumberNext> anyway, can imagine what fine-tuned app could do, when it would be using CPU, DSP and GPGPU at the same damn time?
Jan 10 20:35:24 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: answer: very little that couldn't be done with just dsp and cpu
Jan 10 20:35:48 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: it seems you have modified your n900 to have a heatsink attached to the Soc :D
Jan 10 20:36:18 <WizardNumberNext> kerio: I do realize, that you can do pretty much everything od DSP, not to mention CPU
Jan 10 20:36:35 <WizardNumberNext> I am thinking about heatsink
Jan 10 20:36:48 <freemangordon> think twice ;)
Jan 10 20:37:44 <WizardNumberNext> but risk of loosing S0C, because of heatsink is rather not appealing
Jan 10 20:39:04 <WizardNumberNext> at the moment I am investigating what frequency is best power-safer
Jan 10 20:39:25 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: 500
Jan 10 20:39:26 <WizardNumberNext> s/safer/saver/
Jan 10 20:39:26 <infobot> WizardNumberNext meant: at the moment I am investigating what frequency is best power-saver
Jan 10 20:39:49 <freemangordon> just ask, we'll tell you :)
Jan 10 20:40:08 <WizardNumberNext> freemangordon: it look-like, but remember I have different voltages
Jan 10 20:40:24 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: also having the default voltages is safer
Jan 10 20:40:38 * freemangordon wonders why vi____ is so quiet these days and hopes everything is fine with him
Jan 10 20:40:40 <WizardNumberNext> and at the moment I cannot tell you, because I wait half hour for results for 600MHz
Jan 10 20:42:49 <WizardNumberNext> kerio: default voltage for 600MHz is 1.35v, I am running 1.1125v
Jan 10 20:42:56 <WizardNumberNext> and TI states 1.2v
Jan 10 20:43:26 <kerio> i'm sure that the .24v of difference will make your battery life tenfold
Jan 10 20:44:04 <WizardNumberNext> definitely not, but still would extend it
Jan 10 20:44:33 <WizardNumberNext> it is 10% more then starving
Jan 10 20:45:11 <WizardNumberNext> I have tried 5% more and 7.5% percent more, but both turned out to be unstable
Jan 10 20:58:43 <WizardNumberNext> freemangordon: disagree with 500MHz!
Jan 10 20:58:50 <WizardNumberNext> Used: 70329 uAh, Average load: 208800 uA at 600 MHz
Jan 10 20:59:02 <WizardNumberNext> Used: 72114 uAh, Average load: 216000 uA at 500 MHz
Jan 10 20:59:20 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: depends on the load
Jan 10 20:59:30 <freemangordon> what did you use to test that?
Jan 10 20:59:56 <WizardNumberNext> I fixed frequency 'cpufreq-set -d 500000 -u 500000' and 'cpufreq-set -d 600000 -u 600001'
Jan 10 21:00:09 <WizardNumberNext> just left it alone and see how much it would use
Jan 10 21:00:23 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: ever heard of kernel-power-settings?
Jan 10 21:00:38 <WizardNumberNext> 3G, BT, 802.11 - all on, connected to 802.11
Jan 10 21:00:41 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: sorry, but that is nonsense
Jan 10 21:01:01 <freemangordon> locking the governor does not mean the device does not enter C0 state
Jan 10 21:01:23 <freemangordon> measuring idle current means nothing
Jan 10 21:01:25 <WizardNumberNext> I do use kernel-power-settings, but when I need it only for while, then it is much easier for me to use cpufreq-set
Jan 10 21:01:28 <kerio> you should check with powertop i think
Jan 10 21:01:48 <WizardNumberNext> powertop ?
Jan 10 21:02:17 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: `kernel-config lock 500` and `kernel-config lock 600`
Jan 10 21:02:25 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: yes, powertop. and you should do your measurements under 100% CPU load, not on idle
Jan 10 21:02:36 <WizardNumberNext> freemangordon - that is what I want to see - on which frequency I would use less power - considering sleep and off states
Jan 10 21:02:38 <freemangordon> one and the same task
Jan 10 21:02:49 <kerio> it makes sense that locking at 600 while idling uses less power, it's faster to go back to idle
Jan 10 21:02:54 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: try 250 ;)
Jan 10 21:03:18 <WizardNumberNext> thanks - been there - it takes most of energy
Jan 10 21:03:20 <Apic> When the Fuck will Nokia release Ovi Maps with Voice-Guided-Navigation like they promised for Years?
Jan 10 21:03:30 <kerio> Apic: ...wat
Jan 10 21:03:33 <Apic> (Didn't check if they actually did, I assume not)
Jan 10 21:03:42 <WizardNumberNext> I am confirming 600MHz at the monent - 30minutes till end
Jan 10 21:03:43 <freemangordon> Apic: but, but, they did it
Jan 10 21:03:44 <kerio> they never promised that, and they never will
Jan 10 21:03:55 <kerio> (on n900)
Jan 10 21:03:57 <freemangordon> kerio: come on, they did it. on HARM :P
Jan 10 21:03:57 <Apic> freemangordon: Ok. Where can I leech the current Ovi Maps?
Jan 10 21:04:07 <Apic> kerio: B-(
Jan 10 21:04:09 <kerio> Apic: i hope your N9 emulator is fast enough
Jan 10 21:04:32 <Apic> Is there one for N900?
Jan 10 21:04:53 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: also you should perform your test in offline mode
Jan 10 21:05:04 <Apic> You probably were joking, right?
Jan 10 21:05:06 <WizardNumberNext> I would like to see maps with voice guidance as well
Jan 10 21:05:11 <freemangordon> as you can never know what is going on with radios
Jan 10 21:05:18 <WizardNumberNext> I am going to, but not today
Jan 10 21:05:22 <freemangordon> Apic: yes
Jan 10 21:05:26 <kerio> Apic: if you want a gps with voice navigation, try modrana
Jan 10 21:05:32 <freemangordon> or MM10
Jan 10 21:05:40 <kerio> or, well, there's sygic
Jan 10 21:05:44 <kerio> but the sygic maps are outdated
Jan 10 21:05:45 <Apic> kerio: Is this in the Program Manager or extras-devel?
Jan 10 21:05:58 <Apic> (modrana)
Jan 10 21:06:02 <kerio> extras-devel is a repository in HAM
Jan 10 21:06:30 <Apic> HAM?
Jan 10 21:06:47 <kerio> application manager
Jan 10 21:06:58 <kerio> as in, the stock Application Manager
Jan 10 21:07:02 <Apic> k
Jan 10 21:07:21 <Apic> So is modrana listed there or do I need to google?
Jan 10 21:07:24 <WizardNumberNext> freemangordon: I do know enough about 802.11 - I control server-side of it and I ping N900 every 0.2s
Jan 10 21:07:32 <kerio> it's in extras-devel, yes
Jan 10 21:07:35 <Apic> thx
Jan 10 21:07:46 <kerio> it requires a data connection ofc
Jan 10 21:08:04 <kerio> but there's a way to predownload map tiles and routing data
Jan 10 21:08:26 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: your test is flawed, if you want results for CPU (and CPU only) you should perform it when device is in offline, with screen off
Jan 10 21:08:59 <Apic> kerio: ofc?
Jan 10 21:09:08 <kerio> of course
Jan 10 21:09:13 <Apic> kthx
Jan 10 21:09:17 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: otherwise you measure the current drown from radios and whatnot
Jan 10 21:09:32 <WizardNumberNext> my test is running for 20 minutes - that is to get something like average results
Jan 10 21:09:41 <freemangordon> does not matter
Jan 10 21:09:53 <WizardNumberNext> I actually read bq27200 twice - on start and on end
Jan 10 21:10:13 <freemangordon> as you don;t know what happens with your MNO cells aound
Jan 10 21:10:18 <WizardNumberNext> and it is for real case scenario, not perfected one
Jan 10 21:10:55 <WizardNumberNext> oh, 3 in UK have quite good cells (at least around London
Jan 10 21:11:13 <WizardNumberNext> and I do not even touch mobile, so cells aren't moving
Jan 10 21:11:30 <freemangordon> not to say that you have NFC what your neighbour's wifi AP is doing
Jan 10 21:11:48 <WizardNumberNext> NFC?
Jan 10 21:11:48 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: as you wish :)
Jan 10 21:11:53 <freemangordon> ~nfc
Jan 10 21:11:54 <infobot> hmm... nfc is No Fucking Clue, or near field communications
Jan 10 21:12:08 <WizardNumberNext> I am going to run perfected test, but it is not for today
Jan 10 21:13:24 <WizardNumberNext> I really do not care about neighbours' APs as I my AP is rawly 30cm away from mobile and its signal is such strong that for 500m I do not even see that I am getting away from it
Jan 10 21:13:27 <spoofy> Hi :) I upload the new nmap > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1313269#post1313269 please test it!
Jan 10 21:14:13 <WizardNumberNext> I am actually stronger on every channel, then any AP around
Jan 10 21:14:27 <WizardNumberNext> I sit right in the middle of spectrum
Jan 10 21:15:21 <WizardNumberNext> if somebody around wants some channel without my noise then s/he have to go to channel 14
Jan 10 21:15:32 <kerio> well, not really
Jan 10 21:15:48 <kerio> 1, 6 and 11 are supposed to not touch each other
Jan 10 21:17:02 <DocScrutinizer05> WizardNumberNext: that's a pretty nasty config for WLAN, since probably your neighbours are doing same, and in the end everybody is losing on this loss/loss situations since you can't crank up the TX power of e.g. N900 to reach 500m distance
Jan 10 21:17:55 <WizardNumberNext> kerio actually channel 1 reaches channel 6
Jan 10 21:18:02 <WizardNumberNext> next free is 7
Jan 10 21:18:21 <DocScrutinizer05> then you got either crappy TX or crapy filter on RX
Jan 10 21:18:48 <WizardNumberNext> but I have 802.11n card, so channel 1 would reach channel 8
Jan 10 21:18:55 <DocScrutinizer05> sidebands should be max 3 channels
Jan 10 21:19:06 <kerio> nope, 1 is actually -1 to 3, 6 is 4 to 8, 11 is 9 to 13
Jan 10 21:19:47 <WizardNumberNext> actually they are 20MHz so 6 is creating noise on 2-5 and 7-10, but some small amount of noise is getting even on 1 and 11
Jan 10 21:20:47 <WizardNumberNext> and 802.11n is 40MHz
Jan 10 21:21:07 <WizardNumberNext> but this is actually two 20Mhz (eg 1 and 3)
Jan 10 21:21:39 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway ramping up AP TX lvl doesn't help anything
Jan 10 21:21:55 <DocScrutinizer05> using a good antenna with a lot of gain might
Jan 10 21:22:35 <WizardNumberNext> and I do not care about neighbours as their APs are preventing me from using 802.11n and I have to stick to 802.3ab (1gbp ethernet)
Jan 10 21:22:56 <WizardNumberNext> I have good card and good antenna
Jan 10 21:23:03 <DocScrutinizer05> and for evaluating power consumption, WLAN is one of your minor problems, unless NOT associated or NOT on a AP with proper powersaving
Jan 10 21:23:03 <WizardNumberNext> it adds up to 2W
Jan 10 21:23:31 <WizardNumberNext> I switched off power-safing - it was cutting my ssh sessions
Jan 10 21:23:43 <DocScrutinizer05> then your AP is crap
Jan 10 21:24:03 <WizardNumberNext> no, my AP have power-saving off as well
Jan 10 21:24:16 <WizardNumberNext> it is on ALPHA card
Jan 10 21:24:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and it will cause quite severe power consumption on N900 WLAN *RX*
Jan 10 21:24:43 <freemangordon> WizardNumberNext: turning power saving on n900 off is a very bad idea
Jan 10 21:24:50 <WizardNumberNext> sorry ALFA
Jan 10 21:24:56 <freemangordon> your battery will be flat in 6-8 hours
Jan 10 21:25:01 <DocScrutinizer05> I meant your AP powersaving which is crap when it causes N900 to lose ssh sessions
Jan 10 21:25:18 <Pali> http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/qt-components/2013-January/000126.html
Jan 10 21:25:24 <WizardNumberNext> I have no power-saving of any kind for AP
Jan 10 21:25:34 <kerio> yep, which is awful
Jan 10 21:25:37 <DocScrutinizer05> WLAN RX either goes to sleep 99% of time due to proper AP-controlled powersaving, or it will eat several 100mW
Jan 10 21:25:40 <Pali> jolla, ubuntu and plasma kde want to create one qml api
Jan 10 21:25:42 <WizardNumberNext> it is swithced off by default on kernel and not switched on in hostapd confing
Jan 10 21:25:51 <freemangordon> Pali: yeah
Jan 10 21:26:11 <freemangordon> saw it on TMO, sounds too good to be true :D
Jan 10 21:26:21 <xes> my opinion is first of all saty away from channel 1 and 14 because very often the RF module cuts of that channels..
Jan 10 21:26:24 <Pali> I do not belive to that
Jan 10 21:26:43 <Pali> something like *official* nokia support for meggo on n900...
Jan 10 21:26:49 <freemangordon> :D:D:D
Jan 10 21:27:07 <DocScrutinizer05> WizardNumberNext: lemme put it this way, so maybe to make my point: WLAN will consume *most* power when NOT associated to any AP
Jan 10 21:27:15 <freemangordon> yep. and jolla said they'll "support" sailfish on n900 :D
Jan 10 21:27:31 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW while searching/scanning
Jan 10 21:27:48 <WizardNumberNext> so it is good, that I turn it off, while I am not home
Jan 10 21:27:48 <DocScrutinizer05> IYOW while RX enabled 100% of time
Jan 10 21:27:51 <Pali> same people said same...
Jan 10 21:28:07 <freemangordon> Pali: said? it is somehow official
Jan 10 21:28:36 <DocScrutinizer05> proper powersave enabled on AP makes N900 WLAN RX go to sleep 99.x% of the time
Jan 10 21:28:43 <Pali> nokia said that they was doing on official meego support fot n900
Jan 10 21:28:55 <Pali> there was nokia team for that
Jan 10 21:28:55 <WizardNumberNext> ld turn on powerr-saving on my APs and turn it on on N900 as well?
Jan 10 21:29:06 <DocScrutinizer05> crappy powersave may still do that, but causes loss of data
Jan 10 21:29:20 <freemangordon> Pali: http://hildonfoundation.org/open-letter-from-the-hildon-foundation-to-jolla/#comment-58
Jan 10 21:29:22 <Pali> and what they done? nothing (-boot-)useable
Jan 10 21:29:29 <WizardNumberNext> I run some recent kerlnel
Jan 10 21:29:36 <WizardNumberNext> someting like 3.5 or 3.6
Jan 10 21:29:47 <WizardNumberNext> and I am going to 3.7.1 soon
Jan 10 21:29:51 <DocScrutinizer05> WizardNumberNext: WLAN PSM is a protocol, where AP negotiates periods of suspend with clients
Jan 10 21:30:23 <WizardNumberNext> but I would need to reboot server, and then I would change power supply, as this one is barely asble to supply my 11 HDDs
Jan 10 21:30:45 <WizardNumberNext> and that is why it doesn't work with my APs
Jan 10 21:30:45 <freemangordon> Pali: well, lets see. TBH once we have a descent and recent kernel, we will be able to choose who to support :P
Jan 10 21:30:57 <WizardNumberNext> cause it is switched off in my kernel
Jan 10 21:30:58 <kerio> what about an ascent kernel?
Jan 10 21:31:00 <Apic> kerio: modRana rocks, thank You!
Jan 10 21:31:09 <freemangordon> Pali: btw did you see h-d on arch?
Jan 10 21:31:21 <Pali> I saw screenshot
Jan 10 21:31:25 <freemangordon> yep
Jan 10 21:31:29 <DocScrutinizer05> WizardNumberNext: however, for GSM/UMTS, you got no control over similar powersaving methods, and afaik even inbound pings that are blocked by your TCP-IP stack still make the GSM modem enter TX mode to ack the ping data packet
Jan 10 21:31:42 <freemangordon> not sure if it is on the device or in qemu, but still
Jan 10 21:31:47 <Pali> but I'd rather see debian/ubuntu with h-d
Jan 10 21:32:10 <freemangordon> Pali: you want gtk3?
Jan 10 21:32:18 <WizardNumberNext> I agree with last statement about GSM/UMTS
Jan 10 21:32:25 <Pali> I do not need gtk3
Jan 10 21:32:47 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: usually mobile operators block inbound connections
Jan 10 21:32:48 <freemangordon> Pali: both debian and ubuntu are on gtk3
Jan 10 21:32:51 <kerio> possibly for that reason, too
Jan 10 21:32:56 <DocScrutinizer05> WizardNumberNext: so while you're on GSM/UMTS you have NFC what's going on with power consumption of modem, no matter what you do to your online settings
Jan 10 21:33:01 <Pali> maemo gtk has a lot of patches for better touch input widgets
Jan 10 21:33:07 <Pali> ubuntu still has both gtk
Jan 10 21:33:08 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: some do, some do not
Jan 10 21:33:12 <kerio> :o
Jan 10 21:33:15 <freemangordon> Pali: do they?
Jan 10 21:33:16 <Pali> you can install both gtk on ubuntu
Jan 10 21:33:24 <DocScrutinizer05> seems in Finland they usually do not
Jan 10 21:33:25 <kerio> there are operators that give you a real IP?
Jan 10 21:33:33 <freemangordon> great. so, what is stopping us?
Jan 10 21:33:40 <freemangordon> (esides the kernel)
Jan 10 21:33:40 <Pali> you can still compiled any application against gtk2 on ubuntu (if you want)
Jan 10 21:33:46 <Pali> time :D
Jan 10 21:33:47 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: yep
Jan 10 21:33:49 <WizardNumberNext> ok, then modem is going to be off on next test and I would rerun all test again
Jan 10 21:33:56 <freemangordon> Pali: yeah, I know :(
Jan 10 21:35:43 <kerio> ofc at 100% cpu 600mhz is going to use more power than 500mhz
Jan 10 21:36:16 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: there are 3G-wireless "DSL" routers now, which have ethernet connection and claim to be a complete substitute for your wired internet connection
Jan 10 21:36:38 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: you bet carriers need to allow inbound traffic for those
Jan 10 21:37:04 <kerio> of course they don't
Jan 10 21:37:25 <kerio> you can access the google and the youtube and the pr0n
Jan 10 21:37:30 <kerio> that's the whole internets
Jan 10 21:37:47 <DocScrutinizer05> no, you can't skype etc for example
Jan 10 21:38:01 <DocScrutinizer05> if inbound traffic got completely blocked
Jan 10 21:38:12 <kerio> of course you can skype
Jan 10 21:38:25 <kerio> skype prides itself in being 100% working even behind NATs
Jan 10 21:39:00 <DocScrutinizer05> and those internet accounts nowadays come with (SIP-alike) NGN 'wired' landline phone service
Jan 10 21:39:12 <kerio> (by no inbound i mean that only ESTABLISHED or RELATED stuff can get in)
Jan 10 21:40:03 * grummund has sip working on the n900
Jan 10 21:40:15 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, whatever. Ask our north-western friends, they have real IP and ssh to their N900 via 3G
Jan 10 21:40:42 <kerio> oh, i believe you
Jan 10 21:41:22 <kerio> it's just not necessarily true everywhere, even for those umts hotspots
Jan 10 21:41:37 <grummund> problem was with sipgate not routing so i tried my voipfone account and it works
Jan 10 21:42:10 <DocScrutinizer05> I got sipgate working on N900 since years
Jan 10 21:43:06 <DocScrutinizer05> o/ bbl
Jan 10 21:43:55 <grummund> o/
Jan 10 21:44:52 <kerio> \o
Jan 10 21:46:38 <yigal> \j math
Jan 10 21:46:47 <yigal> oops
Jan 10 21:47:17 <Apic> B-P
Jan 10 21:47:28 <grummund> i'm using the usb-powerjack cable with an old nokia wall cube but it's not charging.
Jan 10 21:48:22 <WizardNumberNext> grummund do you mean CA-146C?
Jan 10 21:48:46 <grummund> yes
Jan 10 21:48:55 <WizardNumberNext> and by wall cube do you mean AC-3X?
Jan 10 21:49:33 <WizardNumberNext> bad news - it doesn't work for me
Jan 10 21:49:44 <grummund> ACP-7X
Jan 10 21:50:02 <WizardNumberNext> what is current? voltage?
Jan 10 21:50:54 <grummund> measured with a voltmeter?
Jan 10 21:51:34 <WizardNumberNext> if you have problem with charging you can use any REAL 5V (absolute max is rawly 8V) charger - hook it up with usb-micro-ab and short-out D+ and D- cables (white and green)
Jan 10 21:51:39 <WizardNumberNext> yes
Jan 10 21:51:49 <kerio> grummund: if D+/- isn't shorted, the n900 is assuming that it's a real usb host
Jan 10 21:51:51 <WizardNumberNext> or what charger states
Jan 10 21:51:53 <kerio> that's not responding
Jan 10 21:51:59 <kerio> so it'll do nothing
Jan 10 21:52:21 <WizardNumberNext> kerio - I had no charger for 2 weeks and I was charging that way
Jan 10 21:52:43 <WizardNumberNext> oh, I know what you mean
Jan 10 21:52:44 <grummund> it says 3.7V out
Jan 10 21:53:08 <WizardNumberNext> should be working, but not entariely sure about it
Jan 10 21:53:11 <WizardNumberNext> bit low
Jan 10 21:53:26 <DocScrutinizer51> max USB VBUS is 6V
Jan 10 21:53:46 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: shouldn't it be 5V all day erry day?
Jan 10 21:53:50 <WizardNumberNext> but you won't ever charge battery that way - charged battery is between 4.1 and 4.2
Jan 10 21:54:17 <kerio> or do the specs have a required tolerance?
Jan 10 21:54:56 <WizardNumberNext> I have seen isp1707 and bq2415x datasheet and agree with kerio - 6V is absolute max
Jan 10 21:55:02 <DocScrutinizer51> you need at least 4V5 to charge
Jan 10 21:55:17 <WizardNumberNext> regulators on a way
Jan 10 21:55:30 <DocScrutinizer51> kerio: ABS MAX is about tolerance, yes
Jan 10 21:56:31 <WizardNumberNext> AC-3X is actually giving out 8-9V and it was charging on it
Jan 10 21:56:42 <WizardNumberNext> and AC-8X is giving 1v less
Jan 10 21:56:47 <WizardNumberNext> same - charging
Jan 10 21:57:08 <DocScrutinizer51> doesn't matter, it mage kill your device
Jan 10 21:57:14 <WizardNumberNext> w/ and w/o CA-146C
Jan 10 21:57:18 <DocScrutinizer51> may*
Jan 10 21:57:23 <grummund> it starts charging then craps out after a few seconds so i guess the n900 is just too much load
Jan 10 21:57:52 <WizardNumberNext> 3.7v is not enough even for plain battery
Jan 10 21:58:00 <WizardNumberNext> where did you get such charger?
Jan 10 21:58:01 <DocScrutinizer51> ca-146 worked for me down to ~4V
Jan 10 21:58:39 <WizardNumberNext> that is supprising, because afaik ca-146c contains some regulator as well
Jan 10 21:59:16 <DocScrutinizer51> it contains a switched regulator
Jan 10 21:59:44 <DocScrutinizer51> which seems to do step-up
Jan 10 21:59:48 <WizardNumberNext> as most regulators of out time
Jan 10 21:59:56 <grummund> aha. works with a ACP-12X wall cube :)
Jan 10 22:00:04 <DocScrutinizer51> or at least no voltage drop
Jan 10 22:00:57 <WizardNumberNext> it might step-up/down because it gets hot on AC-8X
Jan 10 22:01:24 <WizardNumberNext> do not know ACP-12X
Jan 10 22:01:25 <grummund> 5.7V
Jan 10 22:01:33 <WizardNumberNext> what is its current?
Jan 10 22:01:49 <WizardNumberNext> id it is bigger then 1250mA, then do not use it
Jan 10 22:02:06 <grummund> 800mA
Jan 10 22:02:13 <WizardNumberNext> bq2415x cannot cope with anything bigger, then 1250mA
Jan 10 22:02:22 <WizardNumberNext> 800mA is fine
Jan 10 22:02:26 <DocScrutinizer51> current doesn't matter at all
Jan 10 22:02:27 <kerio> ...wat
Jan 10 22:02:35 <kerio> indeed, what doc said
Jan 10 22:02:52 <kerio> it might never going to use more than 1250mA, but that's irrelevant
Jan 10 22:03:00 <WizardNumberNext> DocScrutinizer51: it does! datasheet spec it is absolute max
Jan 10 22:03:11 <DocScrutinizer51> shouldn't be LESS than 800mA
Jan 10 22:03:37 <grummund> yeah makes sense
Jan 10 22:03:38 <WizardNumberNext> kerio: I think that bq2415x isn't regulating any current as such - battery does it by itself
Jan 10 22:03:51 <kerio> well, you think wrong
Jan 10 22:03:56 <DocScrutinizer51> bullshit
Jan 10 22:03:56 <kerio> the battery does very little
Jan 10 22:04:08 <WizardNumberNext> shouldn't be less, because otherwise you won't give enough for battery
Jan 10 22:04:25 <WizardNumberNext> every battery regulates its own current
Jan 10 22:04:35 <DocScrutinizer51> orly?
Jan 10 22:04:42 <WizardNumberNext> on complately flat battery it is biggest current
Jan 10 22:04:54 <WizardNumberNext> its almost disappears, when battery is full
Jan 10 22:05:07 <kerio> that's bme or a substitute, telling bq24k to charge with less current
Jan 10 22:05:09 * DocScrutinizer51 idly wonders what's CCCV then
Jan 10 22:05:37 <WizardNumberNext> I tried to explode one battery long time ago
Jan 10 22:05:45 <WizardNumberNext> could not achieve that
Jan 10 22:06:02 <kerio> clearly, that means that every battery has a protection circuit
Jan 10 22:06:03 <DocScrutinizer51> warning! don't argue with EE ;-)
Jan 10 22:06:06 <WizardNumberNext> current dropped to something like 5mA and it never even got warmer
Jan 10 22:07:15 <DocScrutinizer51> ~batteryfaq
Jan 10 22:07:17 <infobot> somebody said batteryfaq was http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers
Jan 10 22:07:27 <DocScrutinizer51> ~joerg
Jan 10 22:07:29 <infobot> it has been said that joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer
Jan 10 22:07:55 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: don't BL-5Js have some kind of protective circuit, anyway?
Jan 10 22:08:09 <DocScrutinizer51> yes, supposed to have
Jan 10 22:08:20 <WizardNumberNext> look DocScrutinizer51 I work with batteries - at the moment I am setting up biggest domestic Solar Panel installation in UK with 131KW worth of batteries
Jan 10 22:08:41 <DocScrutinizer51> OMG
Jan 10 22:08:46 <WizardNumberNext> where this circuitry is?
Jan 10 22:08:54 <WizardNumberNext> whis to know
Jan 10 22:09:11 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: it's bq24k that regulates the current to the battery though, srsly
Jan 10 22:09:19 <WizardNumberNext> cause I have one BL-5J which was poorly soldered and top simply fell off
Jan 10 22:09:47 <DocScrutinizer51> that top is the protective circuit
Jan 10 22:09:51 <WizardNumberNext> then it wopuld be running seriously hot
Jan 10 22:09:53 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: hm, an original one?
Jan 10 22:09:57 <jon_y> my n900 screen is b0rked, not receiving any presses, but strangely allows drags
Jan 10 22:10:06 <jon_y> anybody know what is the issue?
Jan 10 22:10:12 <kerio> jon_y: reboot
Jan 10 22:10:12 <WizardNumberNext> an original one with hologram and made in hungary
Jan 10 22:10:23 <jon_y> kerio: already
Jan 10 22:10:47 <jon_y> alarm screen woke me up this morning and refused to stop :|
Jan 10 22:10:48 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: the hologram is like the bare minimum for imitation BL-5Js
Jan 10 22:11:27 <kerio> jon_y: weird issue, have you tried reflashing (after making a backup ofc)
Jan 10 22:11:29 <WizardNumberNext> wait I would look for top of it - have it somewhere on desktop - would get back to you next week, when I would find
Jan 10 22:11:30 <DocScrutinizer51> kerio: could you share the URL to my people.openmoko.org/joerg document about battery?
Jan 10 22:11:30 <WizardNumberNext> it
Jan 10 22:11:52 <jon_y> kerio: well, not sure how to backup, but I'm OK with flashing
Jan 10 22:11:58 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: the pdf?
Jan 10 22:11:59 <kerio> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf
Jan 10 22:12:11 <DocScrutinizer51> yep, thanks
Jan 10 22:12:36 <WizardNumberNext> I would check if it have bq27200 on it - if it does, then it would more alike like genuine nokia
Jan 10 22:12:47 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: wtf, the engrish
Jan 10 22:13:01 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: bq27k is in the n900
Jan 10 22:13:04 <DocScrutinizer51> enZish
Jan 10 22:13:11 <kerio> it's not on the battery, even though it should be
Jan 10 22:13:20 <jon_y> kerio: could it possibly be hardware issue?
Jan 10 22:13:21 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Jan 10 22:13:44 <kerio> jon_y: hm, it doesn't feel likely
Jan 10 22:13:51 <kerio> if drags are correctly reported...
Jan 10 22:13:52 <jon_y> hopefully not, warranty probably void
Jan 10 22:14:04 <kerio> jon_y: have you tried the screen calibration, in Settings?
Jan 10 22:14:21 <Apic> Good Night!
Jan 10 22:14:25 <jon_y> I can't seem to reach it with the alarm keep poping up
Jan 10 22:14:37 <jon_y> and inability to open the app menu
Jan 10 22:14:45 <kerio> jon_y: have you got ssh?
Jan 10 22:15:07 <jon_y> yeah, but it is off by default :(
Jan 10 22:15:24 <kerio> have you got backupmenu installed?
Jan 10 22:15:33 <jon_y> no
Jan 10 22:15:57 <kerio> and no CSSU either... :s
Jan 10 22:16:02 <kerio> *why*?
Jan 10 22:16:15 <DocScrutinizer51> then you're probably pretty much back to flashing
Jan 10 22:16:16 <jon_y> it is cssu
Jan 10 22:16:22 <kerio> jon_y: it's clearly not cssu
Jan 10 22:16:33 <kerio> because the instructions to install cssu report "install backupmenu and do a backup" as the first step ever
Jan 10 22:16:55 <jon_y> well, the odd thing is that buttons get colored when presseed
Jan 10 22:17:06 <jon_y> kerio: dunno , but I don't think it was a hard dep
Jan 10 22:17:22 <kerio> jon_y: and look at where we are now
Jan 10 22:17:27 <DocScrutinizer51> might be hw defect of digitizer
Jan 10 22:17:40 <jon_y> besides, cssu was installed for quite some time already
Jan 10 22:17:42 <kerio> me slightly tired watching youtube videos, and you with an impossibility to properly diagnose without losing all of your data
Jan 10 22:17:57 <kerio> or possibly a tiny bit of your data
Jan 10 22:17:59 <kerio> BUT STILL
Jan 10 22:18:15 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: not reporting pen-on but reporting drags?
Jan 10 22:18:25 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Jan 10 22:18:39 <kerio> i didn't know it was possible
Jan 10 22:18:47 <DocScrutinizer51> short
Jan 10 22:19:16 <WizardNumberNext> kerio: I am pretty sure bq27k is on batteries as I got different reading with different batteries
Jan 10 22:19:31 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway reflash is your only option
Jan 10 22:19:36 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: you've been pretty sure about a wide variety of topics
Jan 10 22:19:50 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer51: ok
Jan 10 22:19:52 <DocScrutinizer51> WizardNumberNext: nope it's not
Jan 10 22:19:59 <WizardNumberNext> but I am getting different readings for different batteries
Jan 10 22:20:04 <kerio> readings of what?
Jan 10 22:20:13 <WizardNumberNext> charge_full_now
Jan 10 22:20:22 <kerio> that's fake, anyway
Jan 10 22:20:28 <DocScrutinizer51> that's bogus
Jan 10 22:20:30 <kerio> until you do a full calibration
Jan 10 22:20:43 <kerio> (after the calibration it's quite precise, though)
Jan 10 22:20:47 <WizardNumberNext> I did on two batteries and two are reporting different one
Jan 10 22:21:00 <DocScrutinizer51> that's bogus!!
Jan 10 22:21:11 <DocScrutinizer51> made up by bme
Jan 10 22:21:24 <kerio> oh right, he's talking about the HAL data
Jan 10 22:21:31 <kerio> yep, bme-provided bullshit
Jan 10 22:21:33 <WizardNumberNext> maybe
Jan 10 22:21:41 <jon_y> btw, doesn't the alarm thing close by itself if not pressed in time?
Jan 10 22:21:52 <kerio> jon_y: idk, i always turn it off :)
Jan 10 22:22:16 <WizardNumberNext> jon_y: N95 it was one hour - have no idea about N900
Jan 10 22:22:23 <jon_y> I remember it hides itself if you don't press it fast enough when you wake up
Jan 10 22:22:38 <jon_y> it will start ringing again after 10 minutes iirc
Jan 10 22:22:55 <jon_y> I noticed that the alarm app wasn't hiding itself anymore
Jan 10 22:23:04 <jon_y> I thought it was a hang initially
Jan 10 22:23:04 <WizardNumberNext> so it is different from N95
Jan 10 22:23:08 <kerio> jon_y: install alarmclient, `alarmclient -c`
Jan 10 22:23:30 <jon_y> kerio: yeah, after a reflash
Jan 10 22:23:48 <kerio> it won't be necessary, after a reflash
Jan 10 22:24:03 <jon_y> ?
Jan 10 22:24:31 <kerio> alarmd stuff doesn't persist through reflashes
Jan 10 22:24:56 <jon_y> ok
Jan 10 22:27:48 <WizardNumberNext> what does persist apart from security lock?
Jan 10 22:29:03 <kerio> depends on what you flash
Jan 10 22:29:10 <kerio> CAL isn't flashed over
Jan 10 22:30:44 <WizardNumberNext> lets say I would do full-flash with MMC and full flash contents
Jan 10 22:31:22 <kerio> only the data in CAL remains, i suppose
Jan 10 22:31:32 <WizardNumberNext> CAL? what's that?
Jan 10 22:31:33 * grummund wants to live with the n900 for a while before reflashing it
Jan 10 22:32:04 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: /dev/mtd1
Jan 10 22:32:36 <kerio> mtd-friendly, proprietary-ish format for storing strings, pretty much
Jan 10 22:33:13 * WizardNumberNext wants to never flash n900
Jan 10 22:33:43 <grummund> you still have the original firmware?
Jan 10 22:33:43 * WizardNumberNext have back of all mts partitions
Jan 10 22:33:56 <WizardNumberNext> never flashed it
Jan 10 22:34:17 <WizardNumberNext> but I already have CSSU and load of other stuff on top of it
Jan 10 22:34:26 <jon_y> btw, where is fmms data?
Jan 10 22:34:32 <jon_y> ~/.fmms?
Jan 10 22:34:57 <WizardNumberNext> I have seen it somewhere, but I got pissed off with MMS connection
Jan 10 22:35:15 <WizardNumberNext> so cannot tell you now - in the end I got rid of fmms
Jan 10 22:35:22 <jon_y> I just choose havoc mode, receives mms all the time
Jan 10 22:35:45 <WizardNumberNext> so it does work?
Jan 10 22:35:51 <jon_y> yes
Jan 10 22:35:56 <jon_y> I have no idea about sending though, since I don't normally send
Jan 10 22:35:57 <WizardNumberNext> never tried it, as MMS would cost me money
Jan 10 22:36:17 <jon_y> I receive, but I don't send, so it's free
Jan 10 22:36:31 <WizardNumberNext> I have free internet so I can send there
Jan 10 22:36:32 <jon_y> at least I don't see any extra charges in my bill
Jan 10 22:37:04 <WizardNumberNext> I have 'all you can eat data' - in first month I got nearly 300GiB and nothing
Jan 10 22:37:18 <WizardNumberNext> been living without DSL
Jan 10 22:38:02 <jon_y> also, how do I import my old backups to the n9?
Jan 10 22:38:18 <jon_y> phone numbers etc
Jan 10 22:38:58 <WizardNumberNext> while I was migrating from my N95 to N900 I stored my contacts on SD-card maybe yopu do it on N900
Jan 10 22:39:09 <jon_y> I am
Jan 10 22:39:23 <jon_y> N9 has no SD slot
Jan 10 22:39:36 <WizardNumberNext> I forgot that
Jan 10 22:40:01 <WizardNumberNext> thats yet another reason why I do not want N9 - I wouls like to get N950
Jan 10 22:40:10 <jon_y> yep, cloud bullshit again
Jan 10 22:40:21 <jon_y> I have a spare phone, that's the n9
Jan 10 22:50:07 <DocScrutinizer51> jon_y: iirc you pair N9 and N900 via bt, then sync upload to N9
Jan 10 22:50:45 <DocScrutinizer51> been a while since I did
Jan 10 22:54:32 <WizardNumberNext> I cannot understand why they have put bq27200 inside n900, while it have nothing to do with mobile, only with battery
Jan 10 22:55:17 <WizardNumberNext> I just checked - I have one parialy charged battey and swapped it for completely dead - charge level remains
Jan 10 22:57:03 <DocScrutinizer51> I guess they had no nice battery for N900 that has bq27200 on board like it's supposed to be
Jan 10 22:57:52 <DocScrutinizer51> on Openmoko GTA02 battery we did better
Jan 10 22:58:50 <WizardNumberNext> openmoko? whats that?
Jan 10 22:59:09 <WizardNumberNext> heard something but don't remember
Jan 10 22:59:11 <grummund> is it worth getting screen protectors if the screen is already scratched up?
Jan 10 22:59:16 <DocScrutinizer51> openmoko.org should help
Jan 10 22:59:45 <DocScrutinizer51> grummund: yes
Jan 10 22:59:56 <WizardNumberNext> grummund: you can always try to change top layer of screen, but I have no experience of it with n900
Jan 10 23:00:36 <DocScrutinizer51> top layer is digitizer
Jan 10 23:01:00 <WizardNumberNext> as I thought
Jan 10 23:01:22 <MrPingu> Yeh, and I have still scratched digitizer :(
Jan 10 23:01:24 <WizardNumberNext> can it be exchanged and is it easy to get it?
Jan 10 23:01:25 <DocScrutinizer51> grummund: screen protectors ideally even fill scars and thus make them invisible
Jan 10 23:02:02 <DocScrutinizer51> it's available and moderately difficult to chane
Jan 10 23:02:04 <MrPingu> WizardNumberNext: yes, but be aware there not-genuine digitizers
Jan 10 23:02:18 <MrPingu> *there are
Jan 10 23:02:23 <WizardNumberNext> I have mark like huge amount of very fin and small scratches - will it 'fix' that?
Jan 10 23:02:46 <WizardNumberNext> I am aware there is load of non-genuine crap around eBay
Jan 10 23:03:00 <grummund> what about these - http://www.amazon.co.uk/PACK-OF-PROTECTOR-cleaning-ESSENTIALS/dp/B0030F3R4S/ref=sr_1_2
Jan 10 23:03:10 <WizardNumberNext> I had run into loads of non-genuine batteries, two displays and so on
Jan 10 23:03:23 <DocScrutinizer51> genuine digitizers around 20..30 EUR iirc
Jan 10 23:03:53 <MrPingu> When I looked last time they were around 45 :(
Jan 10 23:04:11 <DocScrutinizer51> might be
Jan 10 23:07:09 <MrPingu> I need my sleep
Jan 10 23:07:21 <DocScrutinizer51> o/
Jan 10 23:07:25 <MrPingu> so goodn8!
Jan 10 23:08:05 <DocScrutinizer51> ight
Jan 10 23:10:39 * WizardNumberNext gravity of bed have pulled WNN to sleep
Jan 10 23:30:49 <Luke-Jr> http://gigaom.com/2013/01/10/nokia-yes-we-decrypt-your-https-data-but-dont-worry-about-it/
Jan 10 23:32:03 <DocScrutinizer51> so what?
Jan 10 23:34:05 <DocScrutinizer51> what is all that excitement about a server side browser with VNC alike access? as if there were no *real* problems in this world, like e.g. that sack of rice over in china...
Jan 10 23:35:08 <cehteh> funny thing: opera is praised for that, nokia gets the blame
Jan 10 23:36:32 <DocScrutinizer51> ye(
Jan 10 23:36:40 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah even
Jan 10 23:37:35 <DocScrutinizer51> and then: SERIES40
Jan 10 23:38:16 <DocScrutinizer51> omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg
Jan 10 23:39:21 <DocScrutinizer51> could *anybody* name any article about fekkin cherry?
Jan 10 23:39:45 <DocScrutinizer51> nobody even recalls it anymore
Jan 10 23:42:04 <DocScrutinizer51> probably series40 phones do't even have the CPU grunt for SSL
Jan 10 23:45:38 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsmack
Jan 10 23:45:39 <infobot> OWW!
Jan 10 23:55:10 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
Jan 10 23:55:11 <infobot> thanks, DocScrutinizer51
Jan 11 00:33:03 <grummund> is there a trick to not accidently tapping when you wanted to swipe?
Jan 11 00:34:48 <cehteh> resistive touchscreen, press harder
Jan 11 00:35:43 <cehteh> i tried to recallibrate the touchscreen with the pen, using the most minimal pressure on each callibration point, but i think that doesnt help, doesnt callibrate pressure
Jan 11 00:39:17 <grummund> just have to get used to it i suppose
Jan 11 00:58:06 <DocScrutinizer51> cehteh: there's no such thing like pressure with r-ts and stylus
Jan 11 01:00:55 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer05: there is .. mypaint supports it, albeit its not very sensitive
Jan 11 01:02:02 <DocScrutinizer51> physically impossible
Jan 11 01:02:46 <Raimu> It's probably a time downpushed -based simulation
Jan 11 01:02:49 <DocScrutinizer51> for r-ts "pressure"=area-of-touch
Jan 11 01:03:07 <Raimu> Oh or that!
Jan 11 01:03:07 <grummund> does resistive still work with a screen protector?
Jan 11 01:03:16 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
Jan 11 01:03:16 <Raimu> grummund: Sure does
Jan 11 01:04:06 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer05: mypaint with pen .. well yes maybe 'area of touch' increases when you press the pen harder
Jan 11 01:04:59 <grummund> aprobably the sheet is made from conductive material
Jan 11 01:05:08 <DocScrutinizer51> for finger it does, for stylus hardcly
Jan 11 01:06:02 <DocScrutinizer51> grummund: check wikipedia 4wire resitive touchscreen
Jan 11 01:06:12 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer05: try out mypaint
Jan 11 01:06:30 <DocScrutinizer51> ~wiki 4wire resitive touchscreen
Jan 11 01:06:40 <infobot> I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=4wire+resitive+touchscreen&go=Go
Jan 11 01:06:47 <cehteh> i dont care about the wiki .. when it works here :)
Jan 11 01:06:56 <cehteh> (not very well, but it does)
Jan 11 01:07:01 * grummund just ordered a case from amazon for 99p including shipping ;)
Jan 11 01:07:39 <DocScrutinizer51> cehteh: r-ts is minimally pressure-sensitive indeed
Jan 11 01:46:25 <DocScrutinizer05> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_screen#Resistive
Jan 11 01:47:38 <DocScrutinizer05> N900 for all I would bet on has oil-separated 4-wire resistive touchscreen
Jan 11 01:51:16 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.google.de/search?q=5+wire+resistive+technology
Jan 11 01:54:01 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc
Jan 11 01:54:44 <DocScrutinizer05> F!!!U!!! apple
Jan 11 01:56:54 <DocScrutinizer05> bin deep N9 with all capacitive technology
Jan 11 01:57:50 <DocScrutinizer05> the absolutely *one* advantage of capacitive is sturdiness
Jan 11 01:58:09 <DocScrutinizer05> aka "gorilla glass"
Jan 11 01:58:40 <DocScrutinizer05> apart from that, goodnight capacitive
Jan 11 02:02:57 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry now, a comment for 10+ hours offtime: Fripp, Eldritch, Eno, B52s. The true geniuses of this starting millenium. cya, sorry for less dedication to this community, I need to earn my bagels/donuts.
Jan 11 02:04:23 <DocScrutinizer05> what a disgusting fishing for compliments
Jan 11 02:04:33 <DocScrutinizer05> cya l8r
Jan 11 02:07:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ~botsnack
Jan 11 02:07:55 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: thanks
Jan 11 02:30:19 <DocScrutinizer05> quiet planet syndrome?
Jan 11 02:30:37 <DocScrutinizer05> anybody alive?
Jan 11 02:31:31 <internetishard> I'm here, my friend
Jan 11 02:31:46 <internetishard> just switched to the nexus4 after all these years on the n900... Wow, if nokia (or another company) kept a phone like the n900 up to date it could totally be everything this thing is (and more)!
Jan 11 02:32:41 <Raimu> I'm awake too.
Jan 11 02:33:16 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05, good luck to you :)
Jan 11 02:33:25 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks
Jan 11 02:34:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki quiet earth
Jan 11 02:34:30 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Earth (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About|the novel|the film|The Quiet Earth (film)}} {{Infobox Book | | name = The Quiet Earth | title_orig = | translator = | image = | image_caption = | author = Craig Harrison | illustrator = | cover_artist = | country = New Zealand | language = English | series = | genre = | publisher = | release_date = 1981 | english_release_date = | media_type = | pages = | isbn = ...
Jan 11 02:34:44 <thedead1440> it'll be boring here during late nights EU time w/o you too ;)
Jan 11 02:35:39 <DocScrutinizer05> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_Earth_(film)
Jan 11 02:35:40 <Raimu> Fripp, Eldritch, Eno I know but B52s are unknown to me.
Jan 11 02:36:19 <DocScrutinizer05> you're missing the dynamite fraction
Jan 11 02:37:08 * Raimu looked up
Jan 11 02:37:43 <Raimu> Sounds good.
Jan 11 02:38:16 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UqKRGW6_rw
Jan 11 02:39:04 <Raimu> I'm a pretty bad King Crimson fan and I imagine Andrew's eldritch. It's on my top list of bands, but they should release something in non-live format once in a while. :)
Jan 11 02:40:07 <DocScrutinizer05> Raimu: you have to *pay* for that
Jan 11 02:41:03 <Raimu> Yeah, and that band had a pretty rotten row with record companies in the past.
Jan 11 02:41:22 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2V2h_Bd_Gg
Jan 11 02:42:09 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB1LI9j2btc
Jan 11 02:42:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cadA5iANN2o
Jan 11 02:43:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^^^ SHOCK!!!  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jan 11 02:44:15 <Raimu> 3x COMBO
Jan 11 02:48:02 <DocScrutinizer05> today's musicians are "ohh please, no! too complicated!"
Jan 11 02:48:41 <Raimu> "We'll do it post-prod"
Jan 11 02:50:59 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=q%3A+are+we+not+men+devo+a%3A+we+are+devo&oq=q%3A+are+we+not+men+devo+a%3A+we+are+devo
Jan 11 02:51:35 <Raimu> Hah, I remembered just now I used to have that as a CD
Jan 11 02:51:38 <Raimu> I wonder where it went.
Jan 11 02:52:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I had a quarter-inch tape anchine
Jan 11 02:52:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuQZ-VVkVu4
Jan 11 02:52:52 <DocScrutinizer05> n8
Jan 11 02:53:38 <DocScrutinizer05> or was ir 1/2 inch?
Jan 11 02:53:43 <Raimu> o/
Jan 11 02:53:56 <DocScrutinizer05> too long ago too many shitpits
Jan 11 02:54:59 <DocScrutinizer05> mongoloid!
Jan 11 02:56:39 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gi4Cn5i_Xs
Jan 11 02:59:45 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jVoroHx3IU
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 11 02:59:58 2013