**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 06 02:59:58 2013
Feb 06 08:40:55 <Macer> well.. finally ordered an e7 heh
Feb 06 08:40:59 <Macer> time to go throwback 
Feb 06 08:41:14 <kerio> an e7? :s
Feb 06 08:41:35 <Macer> yah
Feb 06 08:41:46 <Macer> it still has a nokia US warranty
Feb 06 08:42:05 <Macer> when i tried to return my n900 after it broke (again) they said it had a eu warranty
Feb 06 08:42:12 <Macer> wtf kind of shit is that? :)
Feb 06 08:42:17 <Macer> what if i moved to the US? 
Feb 06 08:42:18 <Macer> heh
Feb 06 08:42:40 <Macer> but i can't deal with these other 3 anymore
Feb 06 08:43:10 <Macer> all i need is an xmpp/gtalk client, ssh, and tethering on my phone
Feb 06 08:43:15 <Macer> browser helps i guess too but i'm sure it has all that
Feb 06 08:43:45 <Macer> plus att considers an e7 a "dumb" phone hhe
Feb 06 08:44:00 <Macer> so hopefully i can lower this retardedly overpriced plan i have
Feb 06 08:44:36 <kerio> ah right, you have those weird thing where they can rip you off based on the model of your phone
Feb 06 08:44:43 <vi____> e7 a dumb phone??
Feb 06 08:44:56 <kerio> vi____: it's a frakkin symbian phone
Feb 06 08:45:20 <vi____> why not just get a full retard phone and secretly use a computer fone?
Feb 06 08:45:20 <Aoyagi_joytop> A lot of companies consider anything without Android, iOS or Windows dumb.
Feb 06 08:45:45 <kerio> vi____: USofA
Feb 06 08:46:02 <vi____> No fone OS I have seen comes close to the PIM integration of symbian.
Feb 06 08:46:06 <kerio> the place where you pay to receive calls or messages
Feb 06 08:46:11 <vi____> really?
Feb 06 08:46:24 <vi____> Thats...obscene.
Feb 06 08:46:31 <vi____> How can you get away with that?
Feb 06 08:46:34 <Macer> heh
Feb 06 08:46:39 <kerio> vi____: USofA
Feb 06 08:46:42 <Aoyagi_joytop> I also hear they don't have any unlimited data plans.
Feb 06 08:46:43 <kerio> land of the free, home of the brave
Feb 06 08:46:52 <kerio> Aoyagi_joytop: sadly, that's also true in italy :(
Feb 06 08:47:02 <Aoyagi_joytop> :/
Feb 06 08:47:04 <vi____> What a shite hole.
Feb 06 08:47:07 <Macer> sprint advertises unlimited
Feb 06 08:47:12 <Macer> but i'm sure there are all types of clauses
Feb 06 08:47:17 <kerio> i pay 5€/month for 100mb/day
Feb 06 08:47:18 <vi____> UNLIMITED*
Feb 06 08:47:22 <kerio> it's a prepaid
Feb 06 08:47:23 <Macer> yah
Feb 06 08:47:26 <vi____> *(not unlimited)
Feb 06 08:47:28 <Aoyagi_joytop> hah
Feb 06 08:47:30 <Macer> lol
Feb 06 08:47:40 <Macer> i can actually deal with 5GB
Feb 06 08:47:43 <kerio> UNLIMITED*
Feb 06 08:47:45 <Macer> but the lte plan is retardedly high
Feb 06 08:47:53 <kerio> *in time, because that's what everybody would understand, right?
Feb 06 08:47:57 <Macer> without txting (which i think is the biggest racket) my bill is still $100/month
Feb 06 08:48:05 <vi____> HOW MUCH?????
Feb 06 08:48:07 <Aoyagi_joytop> My traffic is slightly over 5GB a month even on a dumb phone like C2
Feb 06 08:48:13 <vi____> what the christ?
Feb 06 08:48:13 <kerio> well, perhaps he actually uses it
Feb 06 08:48:16 <Macer> vi____: my att plan is $100/month
Feb 06 08:48:17 <vi____> 100$?
Feb 06 08:48:20 <Macer> yes
Feb 06 08:48:22 <Macer> after taxes etc
Feb 06 08:48:28 <Macer> the bottom line is $100/month
Feb 06 08:48:32 <vi____> does it come with a monthly solid gold blowjob?
Feb 06 08:48:37 <Macer> i wish
Feb 06 08:48:38 <kerio> Macer: fun fact: **everywhere in the world** the prices are after taxes
Feb 06 08:48:41 <kerio> all the time
Feb 06 08:48:49 <Macer> kerio: lol
Feb 06 08:48:50 <Macer> not here
Feb 06 08:48:53 <vi____> 100$
Feb 06 08:48:56 <Macer> they advertise the before taxes and levies pricing
Feb 06 08:48:57 <vi____> that is insane.
Feb 06 08:49:02 <Macer> then you get a bill that's like $30 more 
Feb 06 08:49:03 <Aoyagi_joytop> Well, you also use imperial measuring units :D
Feb 06 08:49:03 <Macer> :)
Feb 06 08:49:08 <kerio> home of the free, land of the corporations
Feb 06 08:49:10 <Aoyagi_joytop> Different date format
Feb 06 08:49:19 <Macer> Aoyagi_joytop: american arrogance
Feb 06 08:49:20 <Macer> ;)
Feb 06 08:49:27 <Macer> dare to be different!
Feb 06 08:49:28 <Aoyagi_joytop> Dollar sign before the number
Feb 06 08:49:35 <vi____> I do not think there is a phone package in the UK for £77.
Feb 06 08:49:35 <kerio> Aoyagi_joytop: instead of "imperial" and "different", start using "wrong"
Feb 06 08:49:42 <Aoyagi_joytop> hehe
Feb 06 08:49:43 <kerio> vi____: not even the really high end ones?
Feb 06 08:49:55 <Macer> kerio: hahaha
Feb 06 08:50:04 <vi____> Absolute highest with free iphone9000 is ~£35 max.
Feb 06 08:50:05 <Macer> yeah.. don't even get me started on "yards" and "gallons"
Feb 06 08:50:21 <Macer> although a yard is rather close to a meter i suppose heh
Feb 06 08:50:24 <vi____> Possibly £40.
Feb 06 08:50:31 <kerio> my operator has a plan for 70€ with an iphone 5, 3000 minutes, 600 smses, 20gb
Feb 06 08:50:32 <vi____> But that would get you unlimited everything.
Feb 06 08:50:41 <Macer> kerio: omg i wish
Feb 06 08:50:46 <Aoyagi_joytop> I pay $35 a month and I have unlimited (speed and data) internet and relatively cheap calls/SMS.
Feb 06 08:50:50 <kerio> but the first plan with a "free" iphone 5 is 30€
Feb 06 08:50:52 <Macer> i guess in the US we have to pay for all those people who don't pay their bills heh
Feb 06 08:51:18 <Macer> i actually changed my number because t-mobile said i had 3 months left on my contract so i gave the phone with the number to someone else for the last 3 months
Feb 06 08:51:21 <Aoyagi_joytop> Macer: You should return them to whatever 3rd world country they came from :D
Feb 06 08:51:32 <Macer> and i had bill collectors calling the new number i got from att over and over and over
Feb 06 08:51:39 <kerio> vi____: do people actually use plans? here in italy the majority of people use prepaid cards
Feb 06 08:51:48 <Macer> Aoyagi_joytop: yeah they don't take too kindly to deporting blacks to africa :-P
Feb 06 08:51:48 <vi____> What, ireland?
Feb 06 08:51:50 <Macer> heh
Feb 06 08:52:07 <Macer> leshaun was getting bill collectors calling him all day
Feb 06 08:52:17 <Aoyagi_joytop> Was more thinking Mexico and Russia....
Feb 06 08:52:22 <Macer> worst one was when i told the person i got the number a few months ago and whoever you are looking for doesn't have it anymore
Feb 06 08:52:22 <vi____> I liked the joke about the native American asking the white guy about his immigration problems.
Feb 06 08:52:26 <Macer> "well.. do you know where he is??"
Feb 06 08:52:28 <Macer> wtf?
Feb 06 08:52:36 <Macer> yeah let me track down leshaun the deadbeat for you
Feb 06 08:52:53 <Macer> vi____: hey... i have no pity for native americans
Feb 06 08:53:00 <vi____> o0
Feb 06 08:53:03 <Macer> back then it was killed or be killed
Feb 06 08:53:13 <vi____> o_o
Feb 06 08:53:19 <Macer> instead the white man duped them all into fighting each other then took their land once they were done
Feb 06 08:53:26 <vi____> Yeah...
Feb 06 08:53:30 <Macer> that's life.. should have banded together instead of getting took
Feb 06 08:53:33 <vi____> That is totally what happened.
Feb 06 08:53:36 <kerio> hm, a crappier but more common italian operator advertises a plan for 60€/month that has unlimited calls and messages, and "internet without limits up to 42mbps (2GB)"
Feb 06 08:53:41 <Macer> vi____: in a nutshell
Feb 06 08:53:50 <Macer> people act like native american tribes never warred against each other
Feb 06 08:53:58 <Aoyagi_joytop> kerio: Interesting without limits up to. :D
Feb 06 08:54:02 <vi____> What has that to do with anything?
Feb 06 08:54:09 <kerio> fun fact: if you actually used 42mbps, you'd run out in 48 seconds
Feb 06 08:54:14 <Aoyagi_joytop> haha
Feb 06 08:54:21 <Macer> because if a tribe is willing to conquer another.. then i don't see why they should be surprised they themselves were conquered
Feb 06 08:54:26 <Aoyagi_joytop> Wait.
Feb 06 08:54:33 <Aoyagi_joytop> kerio: I think your calculations are wrong.
Feb 06 08:54:38 <Macer> white men were just another tribe :) 
Feb 06 08:54:41 <kerio> Aoyagi_joytop: yeah, forgot an 8
Feb 06 08:54:47 <Aoyagi_joytop> xD
Feb 06 08:54:49 <kerio> 381 seconds
Feb 06 08:54:55 <kerio> still
Feb 06 08:55:03 <Aoyagi_joytop> Not pad.jpg
Feb 06 08:55:16 <kerio> oh, and you can pay 15€/month more to get access to the full 70mbps and get 1 more GB
Feb 06 08:55:30 <kerio> 336 seconds at full speed
Feb 06 08:55:36 <Macer> but yeah. i just ordered an e7
Feb 06 08:55:48 <Macer> got a new scanner to while i was at it.. a fujitsu snapscan 1500s
Feb 06 08:55:50 <kerio> i suppose that it's technically unlimited because you don't end up paying more after you run out, you're just throttled down to shit
Feb 06 08:55:50 <Macer> since it works with sane
Feb 06 08:55:57 <vi____> But white man was not just another tribe were they?  They had guns and disease.
Feb 06 08:56:03 <Aoyagi_joytop> kerio: I blame Berlusconi!
Feb 06 08:56:26 <Macer> vi____: yeah well... all is fair in love and war
Feb 06 08:56:29 <kerio> Aoyagi_joytop: meh, he's actually out of this
Feb 06 08:56:35 <Macer> they were conquered by the superior force
Feb 06 08:56:36 <vi____> o_0
Feb 06 08:56:38 <vi____> Fair??
Feb 06 08:56:39 <kerio> weirdly enough, he doesn't have a telco
Feb 06 08:56:58 <vi____> war!=genocide.
Feb 06 08:57:03 <Macer> yes... i mean it isn't like it is happening today... back then people were conquered all the time
Feb 06 08:57:19 <Macer> there was a war at least once a decade
Feb 06 08:57:44 <Macer> if they were good enough they wouldn't have gotten beat by whatever means used 
Feb 06 08:57:46 * kerio fondly remembers the time when rome actually owned all of y'all bitches
Feb 06 08:57:53 <Macer> kerio: exactly
Feb 06 08:58:19 <DocScrutinizer05> moo maemonians
Feb 06 08:58:25 <Macer> look at the UK lol
Feb 06 08:58:29 <kerio> Macer: we tended to integrate the populace, though
Feb 06 08:58:30 * Aoyagi_joytop remembers the time when a Czech guy owned Rome and all the beyotches
Feb 06 08:58:42 <kerio> mel gibson notwithstanding
Feb 06 08:58:47 <Macer> they conquered and controlled the largest amount of land ever .. and tha twasn't even that long ago :) 
Feb 06 08:58:51 <vi____> Rome incorporated the populace into their system.
Feb 06 08:59:01 <vi____> DocScrutinizer05: Morning.
Feb 06 08:59:11 <Macer> vi____: and native americans have the ability to do so
Feb 06 08:59:17 <kerio> Macer: actually, my father always rants about how genghis khan's empire was bigger
Feb 06 08:59:18 * vi____ passes DocScrutinizer51 a cup of the black stuff.
Feb 06 08:59:19 <Macer> they wish to remain unassimilated
Feb 06 08:59:29 <Macer> but romans did not go in there with candy bars and happy thoughts
Feb 06 08:59:32 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah right, I forgot
Feb 06 08:59:34 <Macer> they slaughtered millions
Feb 06 08:59:34 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks
Feb 06 08:59:43 <Aoyagi_joytop> Macer: They assimilate tourists with their casions :D
Feb 06 08:59:52 <Macer> Aoyagi_joytop: yeah... seems so :) 
Feb 06 09:00:07 <Macer> and in their defense.. they also gave us tobacco
Feb 06 09:00:13 <Macer> seems like they got the last laugh
Feb 06 09:00:14 <kerio> Macer: millions? especially in the beginning, there weren't millions of people
Feb 06 09:00:44 <Macer> kerio: you're telling me that rome conquoring the known world didn't yield millions of people? 
Feb 06 09:00:50 <kerio> sure, eventuall
Feb 06 09:00:51 <kerio> y
Feb 06 09:00:55 <kerio> but millions weren't slaughtered
Feb 06 09:01:10 <Macer> http://www.worldhistorysite.com/population.html
Feb 06 09:01:21 <Macer> i'd say there were throughtout the roman empire's history
Feb 06 09:01:36 <kerio> apart for carthago, there weren't a lot of full-on wars
Feb 06 09:01:38 <kerio> often there were a couple of battles and then a request of assimilation that was usually accepted
Feb 06 09:01:49 <Macer> fair enough
Feb 06 09:02:04 <Macer> either way sounds like the same tactics used on native americans
Feb 06 09:02:15 <Macer> so native americans can cry me a river
Feb 06 09:02:24 <vi____> Well, I cannot think of another example of a population that have been shit upon more than the native americans.  I do not think that claiming 'it was a different time' can really justify it.
Feb 06 09:02:42 <kerio> often the joinee wanted to join, being in the roman (republic|empire) was convenient
Feb 06 09:02:42 <vi____> One day.
Feb 06 09:02:54 <Macer> i didn't ssay it is justified.. but human nature dictates that the one with the ability to conquer back then usually would
Feb 06 09:03:02 <Aoyagi_joytop> vi____: Have you heard of WWII?
Feb 06 09:03:05 <kerio> :D
Feb 06 09:03:17 <Macer> case in point: had africa developed guns prior to europe... there would be a lot of white people singing we shall overcome
Feb 06 09:03:29 <Aoyagi_joytop> Or ancient Egypt and how nicely it treated Israelites?
Feb 06 09:03:44 <vi____> Aoyagi_joytop: yes.  please explain how that is in anyway relevant.
Feb 06 09:03:47 <Macer> i mean history has always been brutal
Feb 06 09:03:54 <Macer> so why are native americans any different?
Feb 06 09:04:10 <kerio> Macer: they're not
Feb 06 09:04:17 <Aoyagi_joytop> vi____: "I cannot think of another example of a population that have been shit upon more than the native americans" - relevant to that.
Feb 06 09:04:23 <Macer> people act like native tribes were happy go lucky living off the land weaving baskets and harvesting corn
Feb 06 09:04:23 <kerio> it's not an excuse though
Feb 06 09:04:31 <Macer> which sure they did
Feb 06 09:04:37 <Macer> but native americans had wars as well
Feb 06 09:04:58 <Macer> what do you think happened to the losers?
Feb 06 09:05:04 <vi____> Yeah but they were purely PvP melee only.
Feb 06 09:05:07 <kerio> hehe
Feb 06 09:05:23 <Macer> vi____: like i said.. so what.. just because they weren't as developed doesn't make it any different
Feb 06 09:05:39 <Aoyagi_joytop> So they would die a bit longer and with bigger pains.
Feb 06 09:05:44 <vi____> So you feel nothing?
Feb 06 09:05:58 <Macer> why would i feel for people who have been dead for hundreds of years?
Feb 06 09:06:18 <vi____> When you read about the extermination of a culture, be it native americans or some such you do not care?
Feb 06 09:06:36 <vi____> Macer: It is called empathy.
Feb 06 09:06:37 <Macer> my point wasn't about the morality of it.. but just the nature of the times
Feb 06 09:06:51 <Macer> and had the  native americans won?
Feb 06 09:06:58 <vi____> HEY EVERYBODY THE KU KLUX KLAN WAS OK!
Feb 06 09:07:01 <Macer> banded together and forced the euros out?
Feb 06 09:07:02 <Macer> heh
Feb 06 09:07:09 <kerio> Macer: they couldn't win
Feb 06 09:07:15 <vi____> THE HOLOCAUST WAS ENTIRELY FINE.
Feb 06 09:07:34 <Macer> vi____: didn't say it was a good thing.. just saying that the weak are destroyed
Feb 06 09:07:35 <vi____> tSAND HOOK WAS AN ACCEPTABLE ACT.
Feb 06 09:07:39 <Macer> that is how it has always been and always will
Feb 06 09:07:42 <Macer> be
Feb 06 09:07:43 <kerio> *sandy
Feb 06 09:07:43 <vi____> IT WAS JUST A SIGN OF THE TIMES.
Feb 06 09:07:50 <DocScrutinizer05> no politics!
Feb 06 09:07:52 <Macer> vi____: no. that was just a nut :) 
Feb 06 09:08:05 <kerio> Macer: see what your e7 brought to this channel?
Feb 06 09:08:08 <DocScrutinizer05> official OT call
Feb 06 09:08:10 <Macer> i know right
Feb 06 09:08:19 <Macer> so.. e7 :) as good as n900?
Feb 06 09:08:31 <Aoyagi_joytop> It's not as open, is it?
Feb 06 09:08:44 <Macer> was maemo ever truly open? heh
Feb 06 09:08:45 <vi____> meh, I cannot even read the wikipedia article on the holocaust without getting weepy.
Feb 06 09:09:04 <Macer> vi____: yeah well... look what happened to the germans
Feb 06 09:09:32 <kerio> i know, poor germans :(
Feb 06 09:09:34 <Macer> the weaker force lost .. and what happened to germany after that?
Feb 06 09:09:36 <kerio> angela merkel... *shudders*
Feb 06 09:09:45 <Macer> their country was split until the 1990s
Feb 06 09:09:46 <DocScrutinizer05> official OT call 2
Feb 06 09:10:01 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: but there's nothing IT to talk about! :(
Feb 06 09:10:01 <Macer> DocScrutinizer05: what is an OT call?
Feb 06 09:10:16 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll notice soon enough
Feb 06 09:10:19 <kerio> :D
Feb 06 09:10:19 <Aoyagi_joytop> You know
Feb 06 09:10:23 <DocScrutinizer05> Ot = Off topic
Feb 06 09:10:25 <Aoyagi_joytop> This E7 doesn't sound very bad
Feb 06 09:10:34 <kerio> Aoyagi_joytop: freakin angled keyboard
Feb 06 09:10:38 <Macer> Aoyagi_joytop: i'm not sure of the build quality
Feb 06 09:10:39 <kerio> like the n950 has
Feb 06 09:10:46 <Macer> i know the n900 was like..... sad
Feb 06 09:10:57 <Macer> with breaking pins and modems and usb ports :)
Feb 06 09:11:00 <Aoyagi_joytop> kerio: That's freaking goooood of freakin baaaad?
Feb 06 09:11:00 <M4rtinK> the N900 keyboard is IMO better
Feb 06 09:11:06 <kerio> Aoyagi_joytop: bad
Feb 06 09:11:09 <Aoyagi_joytop> Oh.
Feb 06 09:11:20 <Aoyagi_joytop> Well I got used even to the idiotic keyboard N97 has.
Feb 06 09:11:25 <Macer> so far i nhaven't really noticed many people screaming about their usb port falling off heh
Feb 06 09:11:40 <Macer> on an e7 that is
Feb 06 09:11:42 <kerio> not a show breaker by any means, but it's still annoying if you're holding it in a way that lets you see and want to access the keyboard
Feb 06 09:11:50 <kerio> you have to change the position of your hands
Feb 06 09:11:58 <Macer> kerio: it doesn't flatten out at all?
Feb 06 09:12:09 <kerio> Macer: not according to the photos i've seen
Feb 06 09:12:30 <Macer> i've never used one first hand tbh
Feb 06 09:12:47 <Macer> but after 2 breaking n900s and these other types of phone OSes.. i think ill go symbian heh
Feb 06 09:12:51 <kerio> also, we don't actually know how widespread the musb port/modem problems are
Feb 06 09:13:00 <kerio> just ~usbfix
Feb 06 09:13:01 <Macer> at least my n900 still works with wifi
Feb 06 09:13:04 <Macer> i use it every now and then
Feb 06 09:13:05 <kerio> oh
Feb 06 09:13:17 <Macer> kerio: no thanks. tried it once on the first one.. second one had that awkward modem break
Feb 06 09:13:19 <kerio> just... huh... put springs on top of the modem? i heard it was a thing
Feb 06 09:13:26 <Macer> and it wasn't the pins
Feb 06 09:14:15 <Macer> kerio: i had a G1 for like 3 years without the modem dying or the usb port falling off.. that was probably the only htc phone i had that didn't suck
Feb 06 09:14:21 <Macer> but android sucks
Feb 06 09:14:29 <Macer> ios sucks and wp sucks heh
Feb 06 09:14:37 <Macer> maemo was so awesome but no more devices for it :(
Feb 06 09:14:38 <Aoyagi_joytop> So E7 is a bit "downgraded" N8 with a keyboard?
Feb 06 09:14:51 <Macer> yeah pretty much
Feb 06 09:14:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ~xyawn
Feb 06 09:14:54 <infobot> somebody said xyawn was nap
Feb 06 09:14:58 <Macer> but the keyboard makes it special :)
Feb 06 09:15:00 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
Feb 06 09:15:17 <Macer> hard to find a good device with a qwerty nowadays
Feb 06 09:15:30 <Aoyagi_joytop> Or good device with any keyboard to begin with.
Feb 06 09:15:34 <Macer> guess it costs $0.03 less heh
Feb 06 09:15:48 <Macer> easier to bypass the engineering for a qwerty in favor of a vkb
Feb 06 09:16:02 <Macer> that eats up half the screen
Feb 06 09:16:03 <Aoyagi_joytop> I saw this awesome phone... it had both QWERTY and numeric keyboards.
Feb 06 09:16:27 <Macer> i was using an ssh client on my n900
Feb 06 09:16:33 <Macer> er... lumia 900 heh
Feb 06 09:16:43 <Macer> it was torture because of the vkb
Feb 06 09:16:58 <Macer> i mean i guess it's great if you can deal with having 3 lines to work with
Feb 06 09:17:06 <Macer> or constantly closing the vkb 
Feb 06 09:17:13 <Aoyagi_joytop> :/
Feb 06 09:18:21 <Macer> ah well... can't wait to get the scanner too so i can completely ditch having any windows machine
Feb 06 09:22:01 <Aoyagi_joytop> Come to think of it, a friend of mine has E90 :D
Feb 06 09:22:22 <Aoyagi_joytop> Lovely thing.
Feb 06 09:27:24 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: and nobody is talking anymore :(
Feb 06 09:35:26 <DocScrutinizer51> kerio: 250 lurkers prefer that to the alternative of having to cut thru hundreds of pages of noise they didn't come here for
Feb 06 10:10:02 <Macer> wow.. an e90
Feb 06 10:10:15 <Macer> i was very close to getting one when they came out but didn't.. was too expensive for what it was/did
Feb 06 10:10:55 <Macer> too bad the e7 doesn't have an sd slot
Feb 06 10:11:06 <Macer> it was during the nokia "we want to be like apple too" stage
Feb 06 10:26:22 <joga> e90 is pretty bulky
Feb 06 10:27:05 <Aoyagi_joytop> O ye.
Feb 06 10:27:08 <thedead1440> Macer: actually I read it somewhere it was due to the silos in Nokia at that time so the N8 got expandable memory while the E7 was another silo so wasn't permitted to use expandable memory; fm transmitter was also omitted for the same reason
Feb 06 10:50:41 <ShadowJK> There were a couple of "paired" models, like E* N* pairs. The E variants had aluminium/stainless steel bodies. The N variant was all plastic. E had VoIP, Office Suites, VPN support, etc.. The N variant had mp3 player, media control buttons. 
Feb 06 10:51:03 <ShadowJK> Exact same hw insides, exact same circuit board. Just the body and software differed
Feb 06 10:51:06 <ShadowJK> and price, of course
Feb 06 10:51:52 <ShadowJK> No "Ultimate" model with both Productivity and Entertainment sw, metal body and buttons... you had to choose either or, or buy another brand ;)
Feb 06 10:52:12 <jonwil> You are talking about Symbian phones, correct?
Feb 06 10:52:19 <ShadowJK> yes
Feb 06 10:52:30 <jonwil> ok
Feb 06 10:52:35 <jonwil> Not that anyone cares about Symbian anymore :P
Feb 06 10:53:04 <ShadowJK> Android and iOS didn't really exist, so...
Feb 06 10:55:24 <jonwil> true, that was then. But this is now and Symbian is dead.
Feb 06 10:56:03 <jonwil> Even their half-assed "open source" thing didn't actually result in any usable code being released
Feb 06 11:04:09 <jonwil> Unlike, say, WebOS where good code has been released
Feb 06 11:21:49 <ShadowJK> Why would "Now" be relevant for E7 and E90 topic...
Feb 06 11:27:10 <ShadowJK> Macer; I've seen Lumias with detached musb ports :)
Feb 06 11:29:11 <ShadowJK> Macer; and first version of E90 the keyboard scratched up the screen.. :/
Feb 06 11:31:49 <ShadowJK> It's funny, by the C6, N900, E75 era Nokia had figured out how to make durable sliders (N810 is a bit flimsy)... I don't think the E7/N950 type ever got perfected
Feb 06 11:32:36 <ShadowJK> technologies get bugfree about the time it gets abandoned, it seems
Feb 06 11:33:18 <ShadowJK> just when they figured out how to avoid getting dust and scratched UNDER the screen, touchscreens came and people started poking and scratching up the frontside instead
Feb 06 11:34:07 <ShadowJK> I suspect once they get the surface material to not scratch or collect smudges, ts will be osoleted by something else
Feb 06 11:34:14 <kerio> the n900's slider is good, right?
Feb 06 11:34:56 <Aoyagi_joytop> The one model I had in hand was a bit wobbly.
Feb 06 11:39:27 <joga> the units I've touched have been ever so slightly different in their feel
Feb 06 11:41:11 <kerio> mine doesn't rattle or wob
Feb 06 11:41:22 <kerio> when it's locked in one of the two positions
Feb 06 11:59:17 <pavelm> Hello everyone...
Feb 06 11:59:39 <pavelm> I'm trying to install syncevolution on n900... but it seems like repositories still have problems...?
Feb 06 11:59:47 <pavelm> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/s/syncevolution/syncevolution_1.3-1_armel.deb  Hash Sum mismatch
Feb 06 12:00:09 <kerio> pavelm: some repositories on rmo are in an inconsistent state
Feb 06 12:00:27 <pavelm> kerio: So... nothing I could fix and just wait?
Feb 06 12:00:43 <kerio> nothing you could fix, unless you've got write access to the repos :)
Feb 06 12:00:54 <kerio> the bad thing is, this problem started happening a bit before the migration
Feb 06 12:01:00 <pavelm> kerio: Ok, thanks :-). I'll try again tummorow.
Feb 06 12:01:00 <kerio> so mirrors might be in an inconsistent state too
Feb 06 12:01:05 <pavelm> :-(.
Feb 06 12:01:11 <kerio> except extras-devel-light :)
Feb 06 12:01:11 <pavelm> Fun.
Feb 06 12:01:24 <kerio> pavelm: http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/
Feb 06 12:11:39 <pavelm> kerio: distribution: fremantle components: free ?
Feb 06 12:11:53 <kerio> pavelm: components "free non-free"
Feb 06 12:12:05 <kerio> pavelm: there's also a .install file ready to use, though
Feb 06 12:12:12 <pavelm> Won't use non-free stuff for now. Thanks a lot!
Feb 06 12:14:03 <pavelm> Ok... but syncevolution depends on libpcre3 and that is not installable. Too bad.
Feb 06 12:14:12 <pavelm> Will add non-free, but somehow I doubt it.
Feb 06 12:14:34 <kerio> it's non-free as in america, not non-free as in american politicians
Feb 06 12:16:10 <kerio> anyway, libpcre3 is in the nokia repos
Feb 06 12:16:34 <kerio> perhaps the key issue is affecting you, install libpcre3 with apt-get
Feb 06 12:17:12 <pavelm> I'll re-enable the nokia repos. I was not sure which are incosistent so I kept just the extras-devel-light
Feb 06 12:17:26 <kerio> it's recommended to never disable the nokia repos
Feb 06 12:17:39 <kerio> (apart for ovi - do whatever you want with that)
Feb 06 12:17:44 <pavelm> Ok :-). This packaging is still black magic to me :-9
Feb 06 12:18:53 <pavelm> Wow. Thanks a lot, it is installing now,
Feb 06 12:27:26 <ccxCZ> how do I view syslog? is there a syslog daemon running by default?
Feb 06 12:28:53 <kerio> there's no syslog running by default
Feb 06 12:29:03 <kerio> install sysklogd and klogd
Feb 06 12:29:08 <kerio> but beware of the rootfs usage
Feb 06 12:31:28 <ccxCZ> is there some log rotation mechanism for it?
Feb 06 12:31:33 <kerio> only when it starts
Feb 06 12:31:44 <kerio> (so either manually, or when booting)
Feb 06 12:32:12 <kerio> if you want it running manually, edit /etc/event.d/sysklogd and /etc/event.d/klogd and comment with a "#" the lines that begin with "start on"
Feb 06 12:33:14 <ccxCZ> hmm, might be better off running metalog/syslog-ng in the chroot on the mmc
Feb 06 12:33:43 <ccxCZ> but I need to debug ssh connections first, so here comes sysklogd
Feb 06 12:38:26 <warfare> ccxCZ: you can also start /usr/sbin/sshd -dddd -p1234 (full debug output on port 1234) 
Feb 06 12:38:54 <DocScrutinizer05> hi warfare
Feb 06 12:41:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: in RL there's no problem with logrotate only done during boot. I only run into problems for this with my development T900 which had uptimes >180days sometimes. A really *used* phone is seeing boots frequently enough for "logrotate"
Feb 06 12:41:59 <warfare> hi DocScrutinizer05 :) 
Feb 06 12:43:13 <ccxCZ> well, I'd like to keep high uptime too, but placing the logs on mmc seems sensible in general
Feb 06 12:43:25 <DocScrutinizer05> works too
Feb 06 12:43:58 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil doing that iirc, but it has a downside of logs during early boot missing
Feb 06 12:44:52 <SpeedEvil> I don't recall doing more than apt-get syslogd
Feb 06 12:45:03 <SpeedEvil> and yes, early boot is missing
Feb 06 12:46:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: http://privatepaste.com/1b58ba6011
Feb 06 12:47:22 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: you forgot you moved the syslog to mmc ;-)
Feb 06 12:47:37 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: why do you get localized uptime and i don't? :(
Feb 06 12:47:53 <ccxCZ> LC_TIME
Feb 06 12:47:54 <SpeedEvil> yes, don't have it setup on my current device
Feb 06 12:47:55 <DocScrutinizer05> you admitted you might have forgotten last time we talked about it
Feb 06 12:48:40 <ccxCZ> still no logs from ssh in syslog :/
Feb 06 12:49:00 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# which uptime
Feb 06 12:49:01 <DocScrutinizer05> /usr/bin/gnu/uptime
Feb 06 12:49:35 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: logging ssh is a bitch
Feb 06 12:50:26 <ccxCZ> Failed password for invalid user ccx from 192.168.20.14 port 58891 ssh2
Feb 06 12:50:43 <ccxCZ> though it's in passwd and su works
Feb 06 12:51:21 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# echo $LC_TIME 
Feb 06 12:51:23 <DocScrutinizer05> de_DE
Feb 06 12:52:25 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i've got LC_TIME too
Feb 06 12:52:31 <kerio> what's your "uptime" binary?
Feb 06 12:53:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^
Feb 06 12:54:22 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# uptime --version
Feb 06 12:54:23 <DocScrutinizer05> uptime (GNU coreutils) 8.4
Feb 06 12:54:24 <DocScrutinizer05> Copyright © 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
Feb 06 12:54:51 <kerio> ._. no italian in the translations
Feb 06 12:54:59 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
Feb 06 12:55:36 <DocScrutinizer05> not like I'd be happy with de_DE locale
Feb 06 12:55:44 <DocScrutinizer05> esp for root
Feb 06 12:56:08 <DocScrutinizer05> but then, I don't care enough to fix it
Feb 06 12:57:06 <ccxCZ> I find anything but en_US.UTF-8 inconvenient, maybe en_GB could be okay too. And no, english is not my native language :]
Feb 06 12:57:27 <DocScrutinizer05> same here
Feb 06 12:58:19 <DocScrutinizer05> I prefer poor english any time over poor german translations of poor english
Feb 06 12:59:40 <DocScrutinizer05> my /query to users id english often even when I know they are German too
Feb 06 12:59:53 <DocScrutinizer05> s/id is/.
Feb 06 13:00:43 <DocScrutinizer05> IRC and job made me use English way more than German
Feb 06 13:02:11 <Lava_Croft> english is the langue of computing
Feb 06 13:02:18 <Lava_Croft> plain and simple
Feb 06 13:02:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: when above logline is from your N900, you got a PEBKAC. Only users on N900 are "user" and "root"
Feb 06 13:03:13 <Lava_Croft> DocScrutinizer05: happen to have played games using the nick DasIro?
Feb 06 13:03:22 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Feb 06 13:03:36 <Lava_Croft> Different Iro german then :)
Feb 06 13:06:28 <ccxCZ> DocScrutinizer05: I added it manually, su to the user does work ok
Feb 06 13:06:35 <kerio> check sshd_config
Feb 06 13:10:24 <ccxCZ> I don't see anything limiting the user set
Feb 06 13:11:29 <kerio> does the home directory exist?
Feb 06 13:11:58 <kerio> opensshd will reject the login, otherwise
Feb 06 13:12:18 <ccxCZ> whoa, I'm in
Feb 06 13:12:26 <ccxCZ> dunno what happened
Feb 06 13:12:32 <kerio> sshd being sshd probably
Feb 06 13:13:06 <ccxCZ> well I know what happened, did restart instead of reload, but I don't recall changing anything since last time
Feb 06 13:13:39 <ccxCZ> ah darn, I think I know, invalid shell since it only exists in chroot
Feb 06 13:13:51 <kerio> heheh, that too
Feb 06 13:13:58 <ccxCZ> (using sshd's ChrootDirectory for that user)
Feb 06 13:14:06 <kerio> i had to figure out many, many things, when i added ssh support to my dgamelaunch server
Feb 06 13:14:17 <kerio> (and yes, i was using ChrootDirectory too :) )
Feb 06 13:15:23 <ccxCZ> was easier on G1/shr since I could just install zsh there
Feb 06 13:16:05 <ccxCZ> ln -s /bin/sh /bin/zsh  # here you go
Feb 06 13:16:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: su doesn't work generally, on maemo
Feb 06 13:16:38 <DocScrutinizer05> well, it does. From root
Feb 06 13:17:35 <ccxCZ> I see that there's no pam there
Feb 06 13:18:08 <ccxCZ> and su being non-suid because of busybox
Feb 06 13:18:09 <DocScrutinizer05> there is no real su in default maemo
Feb 06 13:18:14 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Feb 06 13:18:17 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Feb 06 13:18:25 <ccxCZ> I don't care, I have my chroot now :-)
Feb 06 13:18:31 <kerio> meh, i'm not entirely sure that anything bad would really happen if you had a suid busybox
Feb 06 13:18:51 * DocScrutinizer05 shoots kerio down
Feb 06 13:18:53 <ccxCZ> well, easy privilege escalation
Feb 06 13:19:04 <ccxCZ> /bin/sh -> always root shell
Feb 06 13:19:11 <kerio> nope, busybox handles that
Feb 06 13:19:33 <DocScrutinizer05> I wouldn't bet anything on that
Feb 06 13:19:47 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: we've got almost-cleartext passwords, if an attacker can run a binary, he's already won
Feb 06 13:19:51 <kerio> also, try it :)
Feb 06 13:20:05 <kerio> set it suid root and then run sh
Feb 06 13:20:07 <kerio> you'll be user
Feb 06 13:20:29 <DocScrutinizer05> try what? MESSYBOX? Am i one of the three stooges??
Feb 06 13:20:37 <kerio> just temporarily :s
Feb 06 13:20:51 <kerio> and busybox isn't badly-programmed
Feb 06 13:22:21 <Raimu> I've never watched the Three Stooges.
Feb 06 13:23:04 <DocScrutinizer05> oh yeah, I bet it isn't badly programmed. Maybe only 5 or 10 loopholes left over, like invoking >>busybox -c exec busybox su -<< in an early startup script that gets run before privileges get dropped
Feb 06 13:24:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and don't get me started about bb-p
Feb 06 13:24:26 <ccxCZ> since fstab is a lie, how do I automount stuff?
Feb 06 13:25:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ke-recv doing that for you
Feb 06 13:25:09 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc
Feb 06 13:25:23 <DocScrutinizer05> get CSSU ke-recv
Feb 06 13:25:40 <DocScrutinizer05> for other stuff, use udev rules
Feb 06 13:25:48 <ccxCZ> any docs on ke-recv?
Feb 06 13:26:36 <ccxCZ> ke-recv is only the internal nand?
Feb 06 13:27:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ke-recv-test
Feb 06 13:27:35 <DocScrutinizer05> NAND, uSD, swap
Feb 06 13:27:43 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc
Feb 06 13:27:59 <chem|st> [ATTENTION] talk.maemo.org down for maintenance
Feb 06 13:28:21 <DocScrutinizer05> err
Feb 06 13:28:28 <DocScrutinizer05> eMMC, uSD, swap
Feb 06 13:28:31 <DocScrutinizer05> not NAND
Feb 06 13:28:47 <DocScrutinizer05> chem|st: ok
Feb 06 13:28:56 <DocScrutinizer05> chem|st: ETA?
Feb 06 13:29:25 <ccxCZ> well, I'm now formatting my µSD to ext3
Feb 06 13:29:34 <ccxCZ> since I want decent filesystem there
Feb 06 13:29:59 <ccxCZ> and I want it to be accessible inside chroot too
Feb 06 13:30:37 <ccxCZ> does mount --rbind work on maemo?
Feb 06 13:30:48 <chem|st> ETA 10-20minutes
Feb 06 13:32:22 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: yeah but local privilege escalation on maemo is already possible
Feb 06 13:32:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I know
Feb 06 13:32:43 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't help messybox
Feb 06 13:32:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ~messybox
Feb 06 13:32:55 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Feb 06 13:33:41 <kerio> i just don't get what you're worried about
Feb 06 13:33:45 <kerio> stuff malfunctioning?
Feb 06 13:33:54 <DocScrutinizer05> on what?
Feb 06 13:34:07 <kerio> with a suidroot /bin/busybox
Feb 06 13:34:24 <DocScrutinizer05> on me testing stuff in messybox. YES,  *I* will start to malfunction
Feb 06 13:34:29 <kerio> oh, heh
Feb 06 13:35:39 <DocScrutinizer05> get gnu uptime and dummy up!
Feb 06 13:35:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
Feb 06 13:37:32 <DocScrutinizer05> actually once somebody claims "hey, busybox su *works*, you only need to set suid busybox!" all fools rush over it and start using `su` instead `root` in their fekked scripts
Feb 06 13:37:51 <kerio> su without a password?
Feb 06 13:37:57 <kerio> how would that work?
Feb 06 13:38:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly don't give a fart about it
Feb 06 13:38:53 <ccxCZ> apparently only vfat gets automounted
Feb 06 13:39:02 <kerio> ccxCZ: install some flavour of cssu
Feb 06 13:39:10 <kerio> (possibly testing? i'm not sure if the newer ke-recv is in stable yet)
Feb 06 13:39:12 <DocScrutinizer05> messybox is as toxic as it gets, without somebody trying to "improve" it
Feb 06 13:39:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: listen to kerio when you can't listen to me
Feb 06 13:40:08 <damo22> you shouldnt talk about female genitalia like that
Feb 06 13:40:10 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-02-06 14:25:23] <DocScrutinizer05> get CSSU ke-recv
Feb 06 13:40:27 <ccxCZ> I'm fine with mounting manually actually, to the place I want
Feb 06 13:40:58 <ccxCZ> what will change if I install that?
Feb 06 13:41:29 <DocScrutinizer05> will install multiple partitions and different fs on uSD
Feb 06 13:41:43 <DocScrutinizer05> s/install/mount/
Feb 06 13:41:43 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: will mount multiple partitions and different fs on uSD
Feb 06 13:42:02 <DocScrutinizer05> will mount non-standard fs on eMMC
Feb 06 13:42:28 <ccxCZ> non-standard == ext3
Feb 06 13:42:56 <DocScrutinizer05> and has a hook to run a script to blacklist particular partitions or volumes from mounting at all
Feb 06 13:43:11 <ccxCZ> I think I'd rather do this manually, without a script that automagically unmounts stuff
Feb 06 13:43:26 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Feb 06 13:43:27 <kerio> so do it manually
Feb 06 13:43:32 <DocScrutinizer05> who said umount?
Feb 06 13:43:49 <ccxCZ> isn't that what happens when I remove back cover?
Feb 06 13:44:08 <DocScrutinizer05> it doesn't umount from blacklist. blacklist is to keep it from mounting stuff
Feb 06 13:44:11 <kerio> when you remove the backcover the uSD is forcibly detached
Feb 06 13:44:29 <kerio> it's already too late to do anything but hope to cleanup the software side
Feb 06 13:44:42 <kerio> (major mishap in nokia's part)
Feb 06 13:44:47 <ccxCZ> :/
Feb 06 13:44:48 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Feb 06 13:45:04 <kerio> what do you mean by "no"?
Feb 06 13:45:09 <DocScrutinizer05> major mishap on kernel driver at best
Feb 06 13:45:49 <DocScrutinizer05> uSD remove switch is a property of the MMC hw if
Feb 06 13:46:08 <DocScrutinizer05> so a standard feature of all OMAP
Feb 06 13:46:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess TI inplemented it
Feb 06 13:46:42 <DocScrutinizer05> not Nokia
Feb 06 13:47:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd not even be surprised if the if itself would power down the uSd hard, on that switch
Feb 06 13:48:37 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe configurable by a config bit in MMC If registers
Feb 06 13:49:42 <DocScrutinizer05> (disclaimer: iirc)
Feb 06 13:50:51 <DocScrutinizer05> you might be able to dual-use switch the function of that pin to GPIO, thus overriding the switch
Feb 06 13:52:12 <DocScrutinizer05> you probably could try to patch the MMC kernel driver
Feb 06 13:52:51 <DocScrutinizer05> using info about MMC IF from that 3600pages spruf98d
Feb 06 13:53:36 * DocScrutinizer05 notices he's in an even more grumpy mood today than yesterday
Feb 06 13:54:00 <DocScrutinizer05> cya
Feb 06 13:54:08 <DocScrutinizer05> better for you and me
Feb 06 13:54:26 <ccxCZ> live long and prosper :-)
Feb 06 13:54:47 <ccxCZ> thanks for help
Feb 06 13:55:59 <ccxCZ> I get quite a lot of DataBufferErr on any heavy USB I/O here :/
Feb 06 13:56:08 <ccxCZ> on the PC that is
Feb 06 13:58:11 <ccxCZ> how do I run stuff on boot?
Feb 06 13:58:29 <kerio> define boot
Feb 06 13:59:14 <ccxCZ> after the system has completely started would be fine
Feb 06 13:59:57 <DocScrutinizer05> autostart tag in .desktop
Feb 06 14:00:16 <DocScrutinizer05> beware! restarts process when it quits
Feb 06 14:01:01 <kerio> you could also write an event file in event.d, and start it on... hm, "start on started hildon-desktop" perhaps
Feb 06 14:01:13 <ccxCZ> couldn't I just shove something in inittab to proper runlevel?
Feb 06 14:01:27 <kerio> no runlevels, we're using upstart
Feb 06 14:01:38 <ccxCZ> ic
Feb 06 14:01:38 <kerio> it's a whole new world of events and not being able to figure out wtf is going on at any given time
Feb 06 14:01:51 <kerio> great, right
Feb 06 14:02:40 <ccxCZ> ok, let's say I want to have daemontools running in chroot
Feb 06 14:02:53 <kerio> wtf is daemontools?
Feb 06 14:03:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, there's still /etc/init.d - it even kinda still works
Feb 06 14:03:48 <ccxCZ> simple daemon manager, somethin like sysvinit but with more flexible interface
Feb 06 14:04:05 <DocScrutinizer05> you just don't know *when*
Feb 06 14:04:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: I smell ~xy
Feb 06 14:04:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~xy
Feb 06 14:04:45 <infobot> somebody said xy was The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X.
Feb 06 14:05:24 <ccxCZ> I want to run daemons inside of my chroot. most likely starting with rsync, more later
Feb 06 14:05:39 <ccxCZ> daemontools and runit are quite convenient way to manage them
Feb 06 14:06:11 <ccxCZ> so I don't have to dig around openrc to prevent it trying to boot full system
Feb 06 14:07:14 * ccxCZ plays around with initclt
Feb 06 14:07:46 <ccxCZ> I guess writing event.d file for upstart will be quite straightforward
Feb 06 14:08:23 <DocScrutinizer05> as straightforward as upstart gets
Feb 06 14:08:30 <kerio> you have to figure out when you want it to start
Feb 06 14:08:52 * DocScrutinizer05 starts to smell a xyz-omega problem
Feb 06 14:09:17 <kerio> you mean xyzt or xyzwt
Feb 06 14:10:30 <ccxCZ> DocScrutinizer05: well yeah. I'm not really interested in maemo, just using it as host system to run my chroot
Feb 06 14:10:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: ntpd is a daemon usually run in a chroot
Feb 06 14:11:14 <kerio> starting stuff on MOUNTS_OK seems like a good idea
Feb 06 14:11:28 <kerio> or possibly even starting it on started hildon-desktop
Feb 06 14:11:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: you basically can't run a full system in a chroot and hope to control its startup from outside, from the host's init
Feb 06 14:12:04 <kerio> ccxCZ: you basically can't run a full system in a chroot, period
Feb 06 14:12:14 <DocScrutinizer05> easydeb?
Feb 06 14:12:17 <ccxCZ> sure, I'm not trying to do that
Feb 06 14:12:24 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: it doesn't run its own init
Feb 06 14:12:30 <kerio> it doesn't run daemons
Feb 06 14:12:33 <ccxCZ> leaving stuff like udev and mounting outside, services inside
Feb 06 14:12:36 <DocScrutinizer05> that's the point
Feb 06 14:12:52 <DocScrutinizer05> check out ntpd
Feb 06 14:13:01 <kerio> usually chrooted daemons are ran in a specially-crafted, minimal chroot
Feb 06 14:13:07 <kerio> or they do their own chrooting
Feb 06 14:13:09 <DocScrutinizer05> you're using one chroot per service
Feb 06 14:13:13 <kerio> for that reason
Feb 06 14:14:01 <DocScrutinizer05> for the mechanism *starting* the daemon/service, the chroot is irrelevant
Feb 06 14:14:23 <ccxCZ> completely different use case though
Feb 06 14:14:56 <ccxCZ> you're talking about security isolation, sure, you want separate chroots for that
Feb 06 14:15:02 <DocScrutinizer05> so A) define what you want to do, so we can determine *when* it needs to get started, then B) take care about chrooting the service's environment
Feb 06 14:15:21 <kerio> ccxCZ: i think i got it now
Feb 06 14:15:24 <ccxCZ> otoh I'll be living inside my chroot, with shell, accounts and everything
Feb 06 14:15:38 <ccxCZ> so I want a way to start/stop stuff in there
Feb 06 14:15:44 <kerio> make an event that runs on MOUNTS_OK, that sets up your chroot
Feb 06 14:16:05 <kerio> make that fire another event when it's done setting up the chroot, and make the daemons you want running start on that event
Feb 06 14:16:10 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: inside such a chroot you have no idea per definition about outside 2runlevels"
Feb 06 14:16:17 <DocScrutinizer05> s/2/"/
Feb 06 14:16:17 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: ccxCZ: inside such a chroot you have no idea per definition about outside "runlevels"
Feb 06 14:16:39 <kerio> and of course, you'll have to start them with chroot /path/to/root /usr/sbin/yourdaemond -options
Feb 06 14:16:45 <n900-dk> shouldn't traceroute be in tools repo?
Feb 06 14:17:06 <n900-dk> I'm no able to locate it in HAM.
Feb 06 14:17:15 <kerio> n900-dk: it's probably not a user package
Feb 06 14:17:24 <ccxCZ> I already have run-executable-in-chroot-with-proper-stuff-mounted script, just wanted to hook it up to init system of the device
Feb 06 14:17:28 <kerio> yep, it's in the "net" section
Feb 06 14:17:49 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# apt-cache search traceroute
Feb 06 14:17:51 <DocScrutinizer05> mtr-tiny - Full screen ncurses traceroute tool
Feb 06 14:17:52 <DocScrutinizer05> libnet0 - libnet0
Feb 06 14:17:54 <DocScrutinizer05> libnet1-dev - development files for libnet
Feb 06 14:17:55 <DocScrutinizer05> libnet1 - library for the construction and handling of network packets
Feb 06 14:17:57 <DocScrutinizer05> gnome-nettool - GNOME Nettool is a network information tool.
Feb 06 14:17:58 <DocScrutinizer05> busybox-power - Tiny utilities for small and embedded systems - enhanced package
Feb 06 14:18:00 <DocScrutinizer05> iputils-tracepath - Tools to trace the network path to a remote host
Feb 06 14:18:01 <DocScrutinizer05> tcptraceroute - traceroute implementation using TCP packets
Feb 06 14:18:03 <ccxCZ> kerio: thanks, I'm digging in the event.d atm
Feb 06 14:18:05 <kerio> spaaaaaaaaaaam
Feb 06 14:18:21 <kerio> and you also forgot the last and most important line
Feb 06 14:18:30 <kerio> traceroute - traces the route taken by packets over a TCP/IP network
Feb 06 14:18:31 <n900-dk> DocScrutinizer05: Yeah, I know, but traceroute is missing from your list
Feb 06 14:18:59 <kerio> n900-dk: it won't appear in HAM, but it *is* in the fremantle/tools repo
Feb 06 14:19:15 <n900-dk> how come it's not in HAM?
Feb 06 14:19:28 <DocScrutinizer05> nothing of tools is in ham
Feb 06 14:19:28 <kerio> because it's not a user package
Feb 06 14:19:36 <n900-dk> ohh, I see - thx
Feb 06 14:20:16 <DocScrutinizer05> basic rule: cmdline tools need to get installed via cmdline tool (apt)
Feb 06 14:20:49 <n900-dk> that's why I like apt more :) 
Feb 06 14:21:52 <Lava_Croft> or use FAPMAN
Feb 06 14:21:56 * Lava_Croft runs
Feb 06 14:26:39 <jaded> is logging in on maemo.org broken?
Feb 06 14:27:05 <kerio> jaded: only on the main site
Feb 06 14:27:13 <jaded> oh, thanks
Feb 06 14:27:18 <jaded> i was wondering why it didnt work
Feb 06 14:28:26 <n900-dk> oh, installed stuff from extras without hash mismatch error \o/ me like
Feb 06 14:31:52 <Aoyagi_joytop> It works for me...
Feb 06 14:32:01 <Aoyagi_joytop> I mean... the IRC log :D
Feb 06 15:12:16 <chem|st> woody14619: ping
Feb 06 15:19:13 <timmy> whenever i connect my n900 to the charger or usb it doesn't recharge the battery except sometimes which is randomly. i thought it is a problem which the mini usb connector so i have changed that but it was not,
Feb 06 15:20:02 <timmy> and also i can't reflash it because when i connect the usb, flasher doesn't recognize it
Feb 06 15:25:11 <DocScrutinizer05> n900-dk: extras *supposed to* be free of hashsum errors
Feb 06 15:25:52 <DocScrutinizer05> I just updated backupmenu from extras-devel without hashsum error or other problems or delays either
Feb 06 15:26:34 <DocScrutinizer05> so it's just *some* packages on extras-devel that suffer from hashsum-flaw, it seems
Feb 06 15:27:35 <DocScrutinizer05> time for some coffee
Feb 06 15:31:46 <n900-dk> DocScrutinizer05: installation of shortcutd had the hashsum errors yesterday
Feb 06 15:32:23 <DocScrutinizer05> oh "fine", thanks. So I have a pkg where to check this issue
Feb 06 15:32:47 <DocScrutinizer05> I gather shortcutd is from extras-devel?
Feb 06 15:33:15 <n900-dk> isn't it from extras?
Feb 06 15:33:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't know
Feb 06 15:33:36 <n900-dk> will doublecheck
Feb 06 15:33:59 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly I don't know where from you installed it
Feb 06 15:35:55 <DocScrutinizer05> if you had e-devel catalog enabled, odds are the version from there got installed
Feb 06 15:36:40 <DocScrutinizer05> there's hardly anything in extras that has no version of same package in extras-devel as well
Feb 06 15:37:12 <n900-dk> hmm, don't know how to see which repos an installed package came from..
Feb 06 15:37:15 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: upgrading from extras to extras-devel is prohibited, anyway
Feb 06 15:37:22 <kerio> n900-dk: `apt-cache policy packagename`
Feb 06 15:37:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and I don't know if the trustlevels are set up reasonably
Feb 06 15:37:45 <kerio> the builtin "maemo.org" (extras) repo has trust 200, every repo you add manually has trust 0
Feb 06 15:38:11 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Feb 06 15:38:37 <DocScrutinizer05> so this means no extras package ever gets updated to extras-devel version?
Feb 06 15:38:45 <n900-dk> it just shows " http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages" 
Feb 06 15:38:54 <kerio> n900-dk: what's the installed one?
Feb 06 15:38:58 <kerio> also, lol
Feb 06 15:39:10 <n900-dk> Installed: 0.1.4-1
Feb 06 15:39:11 <kerio> yeah, apt-cache kinda sucks
Feb 06 15:39:38 <DocScrutinizer05> friggin apt-cache not showing the most important details on info about a package policy
Feb 06 15:39:46 <Vrm1> I take packages from skeiron.org and jacekowski repository, at least it works :)
Feb 06 15:40:10 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: subdomains are free, though
Feb 06 15:40:55 * DocScrutinizer05 sips his coffe and wonders if last remark of kerio makes any sense
Feb 06 15:40:59 <n900-dk> hmm, will try to uninstall/reinstall and keep an eye on the repos..
Feb 06 15:42:13 * n900-dk yawns at HAM..
Feb 06 15:43:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ham
Feb 06 15:43:13 <infobot> ham is, like, Hildon Application Manager.  Hazardous Application Manager. Slow like molasses. anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does
Feb 06 15:43:37 <kerio> n900-dk: were there two versions in the output of apt-cache?
Feb 06 15:43:41 <kerio> or, well, multiple versions
Feb 06 15:43:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal ham
Feb 06 15:44:00 <infobot> "#maemo ham" is "Hildon Application Manager.  Hazardous Application Manager. Slow like molasses. anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does"
Feb 06 15:44:20 <n900-dk> kerio: Installed: 0.1.4-1 and Candidate: 0.1.4-1
Feb 06 15:44:27 <kerio> n900-dk: what about the list below?
Feb 06 15:44:34 <kerio> were there two repo entries for 0.1.4-1?
Feb 06 15:44:38 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, #maemo ham is  Hildon Application Manager.  Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does
Feb 06 15:44:38 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Feb 06 15:45:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ham
Feb 06 15:45:32 <infobot> ham is probably Hildon Application Manager.  Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does
Feb 06 15:46:13 <n900-dk> it is from extras
Feb 06 15:46:15 <DocScrutinizer05>   Version table:
Feb 06 15:46:17 <DocScrutinizer05>      0.1.4-1 0
Feb 06 15:46:18 <DocScrutinizer05>         500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages
Feb 06 15:46:19 <DocScrutinizer05>         500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages
Feb 06 15:46:21 <DocScrutinizer05>      0.1.1-3 0
Feb 06 15:46:22 <DocScrutinizer05>         500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages
Feb 06 15:47:18 <DocScrutinizer05> could somebody pretty please patch that apt-cache shite?
Feb 06 15:48:21 <DocScrutinizer05> add an option --Nokia, that outputs full URL, not only base URL
Feb 06 15:48:35 <kerio> heh, why do you think i asked merlin1991 for subdomains for each mirror?
Feb 06 15:48:50 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Feb 06 15:48:55 <kerio> http://maemo.org/packages/view/shortcutd/ 0.1.4-1 is in extras and extras-devel
Feb 06 15:49:05 <DocScrutinizer05> obviously
Feb 06 15:49:23 <DocScrutinizer05> otherwise those 2 identical lines above wouldn't show up
Feb 06 15:50:13 <DocScrutinizer05> for version 1.4
Feb 06 15:50:32 <n900-dk> As I can see from HAM log, it installed shortcutd from extras
Feb 06 15:50:54 <DocScrutinizer05> so it actually installed it?
Feb 06 15:51:00 <n900-dk> oh yes
Feb 06 15:51:07 <DocScrutinizer05> what's the problem then ;-D
Feb 06 15:51:18 <n900-dk> no problem :)
Feb 06 15:51:26 <kerio> "This bug was fixed in the package apt - 0.7.25.3ubuntu2"
Feb 06 15:51:41 <n900-dk> only that yesterday it gave hash mismatch
Feb 06 15:51:43 <kerio> * Change the package index Info methods to allow apt-cache policy to be
Feb 06 15:51:43 <kerio>     useful when using several different archives on the same host.
Feb 06 15:52:20 <DocScrutinizer05> n900-dk: I think yesterday it tried to install the extras-devel version
Feb 06 15:52:38 <n900-dk> hmm, you could be right..
Feb 06 15:52:47 <ccxCZ> wher does media player search for files?
Feb 06 15:53:27 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh if a .deb is already in local cache, I dunno if it gets downloaded again and thus no hashsum error might show up at all
Feb 06 15:53:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: tracker does searchg
Feb 06 15:53:58 <n900-dk> nm, I just glad it worked now :)
Feb 06 15:54:30 <DocScrutinizer05> n900-dk: we're trying to investigate a serious major problem
Feb 06 15:55:09 <DocScrutinizer05> WFM doesn't help, but thanks for mentioning your yesterday's problems anyway. Might be a valuable clue
Feb 06 15:55:20 <n900-dk> I know - can I clear the cache or do some extra testing and try installing?
Feb 06 15:55:31 <ccxCZ> so where does media tracker search? :]
Feb 06 15:55:51 <DocScrutinizer05> you could uninstall it, disable extras catalog, then re-install
Feb 06 15:56:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: that's mostly defined in trackerd's config
Feb 06 15:56:15 <n900-dk> will yawn at HAM again ;)
Feb 06 15:56:56 <DocScrutinizer05> you may also clear the cache for that particular .deb, but please ask somebody with more expertise about that detail
Feb 06 15:57:00 <ccxCZ> is there a fm I can rt?
Feb 06 15:57:17 <DocScrutinizer05> basically yes
Feb 06 15:57:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Feb 06 15:57:28 <infobot> somebody said jrtools was http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Feb 06 15:57:59 <DocScrutinizer05> has some tweaks done to trackerd config, to throttle it a bit. Anyway you find the config file's name there
Feb 06 15:58:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: there's also a tracker-tweaker app
Feb 06 15:58:37 <DocScrutinizer05> forgot the name
Feb 06 15:59:31 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# apt-cache search tracker
Feb 06 15:59:32 <DocScrutinizer05> tracker-doc - Tracker documentation package.
Feb 06 16:00:18 <ccxCZ> khtnx
Feb 06 16:01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe I made up that tracker-config app
Feb 06 16:01:40 <DocScrutinizer05> racker-tweaker app, whatever
Feb 06 16:02:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: the file is pretty well commented
Feb 06 16:02:14 <kerio> tracker-cfg - A simple graphical interface for manipulating the meta tracker settings + applying same settings.
Feb 06 16:03:01 <n900-dk> DocScrutinizer05: Hash mismatch error shows up, when installing shortcutd from extras-devel
Feb 06 16:03:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ccxCZ: /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg
Feb 06 16:03:51 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: yup, thanks
Feb 06 16:04:25 <DocScrutinizer05> n900-dk: thought as much. Thanks, buddy!
Feb 06 16:05:06 <DocScrutinizer05> n900-dk: I gather it doesn't install then?
Feb 06 16:05:23 <n900-dk> n900-dk: Yes, it fails and wont install
Feb 06 16:05:30 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Feb 06 16:06:33 <kerio> well, fixing the current situation isn't that difficult, the problem will be figuring out what caused it and preventing it from happening again
Feb 06 16:06:47 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, kinda
Feb 06 16:07:09 <n900-dk> hmm, talking to myself :)  Let me know if I can do anything to contribute
Feb 06 16:07:15 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991 is our maintainer for that, having a look into it right now
Feb 06 16:07:39 <kerio> i wonder if older Packages files are backed-up
Feb 06 16:07:57 <DocScrutinizer05> n900-dk: not talking to yourself, I noticed your answer. Thanks!
Feb 06 16:08:21 <kerio> yeah, any help is very much appreciated
Feb 06 16:08:48 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: older as in... ?
Feb 06 16:09:06 <kerio> as in the previous Packages files
Feb 06 16:09:20 <kerio> so we can go and check them against the .debs
Feb 06 16:09:27 <kerio> to see when the first problem appeared
Feb 06 16:09:37 <kerio> the .debs are all stored, anyway
Feb 06 16:09:42 <kerio> and they shouldn't change
Feb 06 16:09:51 <kerio> so old Packages files will still be valid
Feb 06 16:10:08 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: not even older pkg versions are kept, the less any backups of a previous buid of same version
Feb 06 16:10:26 <kerio> are you kidding me? repos on repository.maemo.org keep all the versions
Feb 06 16:10:27 <kerio> don't they?
Feb 06 16:10:39 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think so
Feb 06 16:11:10 <DocScrutinizer05> you can see "package version removed" in every package, on packages interface
Feb 06 16:11:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ~package
Feb 06 16:11:16 <infobot> from memory, package is simply not installable and a bug report against
Feb 06 16:11:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ~packages
Feb 06 16:11:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ~pkg
Feb 06 16:11:38 <infobot> well, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/
Feb 06 16:11:43 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: http://maemo.org/packages/view/openmediaplayer/ haha look at the log
Feb 06 16:12:10 <kerio> anyway, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/o/openmediaplayer/ has 5 versions
Feb 06 16:12:26 <DocScrutinizer05> WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUU*CK?!!
Feb 06 16:13:04 <kerio> oh, and the version that was deleted a billion times is still there
Feb 06 16:13:59 <Vrm1> http://maemo.jacekowski.org/mirror/repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/o/openmediaplayer/
Feb 06 16:17:05 <DocScrutinizer05> 2012-08-15 15:18     2012-08-16 20:42     2012-08-16 20:45     2012-09-12 17:13     ... 2012-09-16 23:55     2012-12-28 11:10     2012-12-28 11:46  ...  2013-01-14 07:54    2013-01-14 08:32 
Feb 06 16:17:09 <DocScrutinizer05> :-o
Feb 06 16:17:15 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: ^^^^
Feb 06 16:17:40 <n900-dk> md5sum is the same for shortcutd deb files in extras and extra-devels
Feb 06 16:18:05 <kerio> n900-dk: it's -devel's Packages file that lists a wrong md5sum
Feb 06 16:18:23 <DocScrutinizer05> pali or kerio are the experts to look into that whole checksum mess
Feb 06 16:19:03 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: let me bet *which* checksum it lists ;-)
Feb 06 16:19:09 <kerio> i'm an "expert" in the sense that at some point i gave a quick look to the debian maintainer guide and the repository howto :s
Feb 06 16:19:40 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i'm actually lost, which checksum?
Feb 06 16:19:44 <kerio> empty file?
Feb 06 16:20:05 <DocScrutinizer05> could it be the checksum of a package that's meant to have been reoved?
Feb 06 16:20:17 <DocScrutinizer05> removed*
Feb 06 16:20:37 <kerio> oh
Feb 06 16:20:38 <kerio> oooooooh
Feb 06 16:25:20 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/view/shortcutd/  looks fishy. Why isn't there *any* version on most recent 4 events in log?
Feb 06 16:27:29 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/shortcutd// 404
Feb 06 16:29:09 <DocScrutinizer05> shortcutd  	Fremantle Extras-devel free armel	Package imported	System	2011-12-02 14:42 
Feb 06 16:29:18 <DocScrutinizer05> which version got imported?
Feb 06 16:31:38 <DocScrutinizer05> shortcutd 0.1.4-1	Fremantle Extras-devel free armel	Package imported	System	2010-12-13 18:10 UTC    <-- seems to be the last proper import to extras-devel
Feb 06 16:32:25 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: please check this ^^^^
Feb 06 16:33:54 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/shortcutd/0.1.4-1/    >>MD5sum:  4ead2d59fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c<<
Feb 06 16:35:09 <DocScrutinizer05> now we could use the names of some other pkgs with hashsum error, to check if they look alike this mess with shortcutd
Feb 06 16:35:32 <kerio> hold on, that md5sum is correct
Feb 06 16:35:33 <kerio> isn't it
Feb 06 16:39:48 <n900-dk> yes it is
Feb 06 16:45:36 <n900-dk> could it be that the extra-devel repos is still in a update process state?
Feb 06 16:55:33 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Feb 06 16:56:32 <Vrm1> Me threw extras-testing error hash, so testing was enough to turn off and turn on devel. And install the application. Devel is incredibly great about 43 436 items with a total size of 45.7 gigabytes :)
Feb 06 16:56:53 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: so you say the md5sum  4ead2d59fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c  is correct for the package in extras-devel, but the sum in packages.gz (or whatever) is wrong?
Feb 06 16:57:08 <kerio> i suppose so
Feb 06 16:58:00 <woody14619> I seem to recall X-Fade re-indexing the repos several times over the past few months....
Feb 06 16:58:08 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: so the hashsum in packages.gz is of that last even that didn't result in any proper package, I guess
Feb 06 16:58:10 <woody14619> This may have been part of the reason for doing so?
Feb 06 16:58:35 <DocScrutinizer05> s/ even / event /
Feb 06 16:58:36 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: kerio: so the hashsum in packages.gz is of that last event that didn't result in any proper package, I guess
Feb 06 16:58:53 <DocScrutinizer05> woody14619: obviously
Feb 06 16:59:21 <DocScrutinizer05> woody14619: check [2013-02-06 17:25:20] <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/view/shortcutd/  looks fishy. Why isn't there *any* version on most recent 4 events in log?
Feb 06 16:59:37 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-02-06 17:27:29] <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/shortcutd// 404
Feb 06 16:59:52 <woody14619> le sigh.... :P
Feb 06 17:00:06 <kerio> i can't fucking finish a download from repository.maemo.org
Feb 06 17:00:20 <kerio> warfare: connections are cut for some reason
Feb 06 17:00:27 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Feb 06 17:00:28 <woody14619> It's not nice to fuck the Finnish kerio. ;)
Feb 06 17:00:43 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: one ended at 7.6MB, another at 8.9MB
Feb 06 17:00:45 <kerio> out of 9.2
Feb 06 17:00:57 <kerio> sorry, out of 9.9
Feb 06 17:01:01 <woody14619> wget -c is your friend. :)
Feb 06 17:01:21 <Vrm1> :)
Feb 06 17:02:14 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: yep, Packages reports MD5sum: fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c0577436f for shortcutd 0.1.4-1
Feb 06 17:03:19 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: uplink 33..56Mb/s, 529 connections
Feb 06 17:03:30 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc why your downloads abort
Feb 06 17:04:26 <DocScrutinizer05> what's the abort reason?
Feb 06 17:04:29 <n900-dk> kerio: How do you see, that packages reports this MD5sum?
Feb 06 17:04:40 <kerio> n900-dk: i downloaded Packages, and i read it
Feb 06 17:04:44 <kerio> it's a text file
Feb 06 17:04:54 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: "download completed", says firefox
Feb 06 17:04:56 <DocScrutinizer05> .gz, no?
Feb 06 17:05:20 <kerio> fine, i downloaded packages.bz2, i unpacked it, and i read it
Feb 06 17:05:20 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, downloads with firefox never really worked 
Feb 06 17:06:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I've seen exactly this early termination without any error msg sooooo many times, with FF
Feb 06 17:07:34 <woody14619> Odd... I use FF all the time and never see this. :P May depend on the version (which changes daily now...)
Feb 06 17:08:08 * woody14619 waits for then to return to version = date... at least then they'll limit to 1 update a day...
Feb 06 17:08:27 <n900-dk> kerio: where to download the packages.bz2?
Feb 06 17:08:28 <DocScrutinizer05> well, admittedly last time I heard of a mass complaint of "file corrupted after download via FF" is a few years into the past
Feb 06 17:09:17 <DocScrutinizer05> but anyway, download by FF sounds fishy to me
Feb 06 17:10:50 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I guess it's been the reason to publish md5sums for everything and recommend to check your downloaded files. I never heard of similar problems with wget
Feb 06 17:11:36 <DocScrutinizer05> it might abort, but throws proper error msg then
Feb 06 17:13:07 <kerio> Connection closed at byte 9463420. Retrying.
Feb 06 17:13:12 <kerio> damn wget why you so smooth
Feb 06 17:13:24 * kerio shakes his fist at firefox
Feb 06 17:13:42 <DocScrutinizer05> woody14619: they more likely will use <year><week><4_digit_release_in_week>
Feb 06 17:14:37 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: you're behind a NAT?
Feb 06 17:14:43 <kerio> no
Feb 06 17:14:45 <kerio> well
Feb 06 17:14:51 <kerio> my router/access point
Feb 06 17:15:07 <DocScrutinizer05> might kick out your session with timeout
Feb 06 17:15:16 <kerio> nonsense, it's downloading
Feb 06 17:15:19 <DocScrutinizer05> when download stalls for a while
Feb 06 17:15:19 <kerio> at 316KB/s
Feb 06 17:15:29 <kerio> it wasn't stalling at all, it was going quite fast
Feb 06 17:15:40 <DocScrutinizer05> strange
Feb 06 17:16:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder what signal or event closed the connection then
Feb 06 17:16:49 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: could we look into that? ^^^^
Feb 06 17:17:16 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: you might use wireshark to do deeper analysis
Feb 06 17:18:09 <DocScrutinizer05> limit logging to packets that have repo's IP in to or from
Feb 06 17:18:44 <DocScrutinizer05> the last few packets should have an idication why the connection got closed
Feb 06 17:19:00 <DocScrutinizer05> or at least who closed it
Feb 06 17:20:23 <n900-dk> kerio: Yeah, you are right. Packages for extras-devel report MD5sum fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c0577436f compared to Packages for extras, that report MD5sum 4ead2d59fc7bf31056945e0aaa85210c, which is the right one
Feb 06 17:21:28 <n900-dk> guess that is what you already figured out.. - just had to convince myself ;)
Feb 06 17:22:43 <DocScrutinizer05> M4rtinK: sorry, I already forgot which been the package where _you_ seen a hashsum error 
Feb 06 17:24:59 <n900-dk> guess it was kmplayer, but not sure which version..
Feb 06 17:25:57 <M4rtinK> DocScrutinizer05: cutetube 1.41
Feb 06 17:26:03 <M4rtinK> 1.4.1
Feb 06 17:26:13 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks
Feb 06 17:26:27 <M4rtinK> np :)
Feb 06 17:27:48 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/cutetube/1.4.1/   this one?
Feb 06 17:28:01 <DocScrutinizer05> oops no
Feb 06 17:28:23 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/cutetube/1.4.1/
Feb 06 17:29:00 <kerio> yep, wrong md5sum
Feb 06 17:29:06 <kerio> it's correct in the web interface though
Feb 06 17:29:29 <DocScrutinizer05> cutetube 1.4.1	Fremantle Extras-devel free armel	Package imported	System	2012-10-10 13:42 UTC
Feb 06 17:29:39 <DocScrutinizer05> looks all sane
Feb 06 17:30:05 <n900-dk> It's wrong in the Packages file
Feb 06 17:30:46 <n900-dk> correct one: a05b00fb816ac04cfb1d01dbb2da6ece  -  wrong in packages: 816ac04cfb1d01dbb2da6ece44460add
Feb 06 17:31:04 <warfare> DocScrutinizer05: yep.
Feb 06 17:32:05 <warfare> should be better now.
Feb 06 17:32:22 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: what's been the problem?
Feb 06 17:32:51 <warfare> I probably set the netfilter timeout too low. 
Feb 06 17:32:57 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah
Feb 06 17:33:22 <kerio> >:(
Feb 06 17:33:53 <DocScrutinizer05> so it's actually been a "NAT" that kicked out the connection with timeout, jist not on kerio's side ;-D
Feb 06 17:33:56 <kerio> heh, i was about to blame varnish :)
Feb 06 17:34:07 <warfare> not a nat ;) 
Feb 06 17:34:15 <warfare> the firewall also uses conntrack. 
Feb 06 17:35:47 <ccxCZ> what players are out there that can do mp3 offload? fwiu the stoc player is gst based, right?
Feb 06 17:36:27 <kerio> "offload" to the dsp?
Feb 06 17:36:35 <kerio> no player that i know of does
Feb 06 17:36:59 <kerio> media player/openmediaplayer/mafw/gstreamer only uses the dsp for video
Feb 06 17:37:01 <ccxCZ> not even stock one?
Feb 06 17:37:38 <kerio> which is a shame, although you wouldn't gain much
Feb 06 17:38:08 <ccxCZ> battery life..
Feb 06 17:38:09 <n900-dk> Is it enough just to created new Packages.bz2 to fix hashsum mismatch error?
Feb 06 17:38:24 <ccxCZ> dunno really what would the difference would be
Feb 06 17:38:53 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: (not a NAT) that's why I put it into ticks
Feb 06 17:38:59 <kerio> ccxCZ: iirc the last time i asked that question, freemangordon said that it would use about the same energy, and you'd get a bit more latency
Feb 06 17:39:14 <kerio> (he's the 720p dude)
Feb 06 17:39:20 <kerio> (so i assume he knows his shit)
Feb 06 17:39:58 <ccxCZ> kthnx, then I'll stop worrying about it
Feb 06 17:40:25 <DocScrutinizer05> there's no difference between ARM CPU or DSP decoding audio
Feb 06 17:40:55 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: except that the DSP can't be used to render web pages
Feb 06 17:41:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and neither to fry toast
Feb 06 17:41:36 <Skry> uhh, there's even linux distro for that particular dsp so I guess it can be programmed to do that too
Feb 06 17:41:41 <kerio> yeah but it's not unreasonable to want to listen to a song while browsing the web
Feb 06 17:41:45 <DocScrutinizer05> but maybe it can do sexual service to you 
Feb 06 17:41:53 <kerio> :O
Feb 06 17:41:55 <kerio> really?
Feb 06 17:42:05 * kerio goes to read the datasheet
Feb 06 17:43:27 <ccxCZ> well, if the dsp does not have it implemented in silicon, there's really no point to offloading there
Feb 06 17:43:32 <pwnguin> does maemo run on anything newer than the n900?
Feb 06 17:45:29 <n900-dk> kerio: should new packages file be created to fix the issue with extras repo?
Feb 06 17:45:37 <kerio> idk
Feb 06 17:45:40 <kerio> pwnguin: nope
Feb 06 17:45:55 <kerio> too many
Feb 06 17:45:56 <kerio> ~closed
Feb 06 17:45:56 <infobot> closed is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages
Feb 06 17:47:05 <n900-dk> Who can create a new packages list?
Feb 06 17:48:59 <kerio> waaaaait, osuosl staff?
Feb 06 17:50:34 <n900-dk> ~osuosl
Feb 06 17:50:43 <kerio> n900-dk: no, not to you
Feb 06 17:51:20 <kerio> n900-dk: merlin1991 has the bureaucratic responsibility for it, i'm not sure if he can actually do that at the moment, however
Feb 06 17:51:26 <n900-dk> ohh, thought it was short for something creepy
Feb 06 17:51:47 <n900-dk> kerio: ok, we will wait and see
Feb 06 17:52:55 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: huh?
Feb 06 17:53:03 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: pwnguin's hostname
Feb 06 17:53:17 <kerio> hostmask cloak, or whatever
Feb 06 17:53:27 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, I knew it
Feb 06 17:53:45 * kerio feels bad :(
Feb 06 17:54:26 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks, that's probably been our hosting at osuosl
Feb 06 17:55:26 <kerio> i'm not sure if he would have preferred a comforting lie
Feb 06 17:56:02 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why I asked our sysops in spe NOT to send a mail asking for hosting, but tather deliver general info to council, so *we* could approach them
Feb 06 17:56:48 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo.org != fremantle_(C)Nokia
Feb 06 17:57:11 <kerio> fremantle is usually what people mean by "maemo", though
Feb 06 17:57:28 <kerio> or possibly the old distros, but...
Feb 06 17:57:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't give a flying F what people usually mean
Feb 06 17:58:17 <DocScrutinizer05> or rather, I don't since that pwnguin fell for the same missconception
Feb 06 18:00:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I elaborated on that stuff in our sysop channel, since khm sent a mail to them asking if they'd be interested in hosting maemo
Feb 06 18:00:39 <DocScrutinizer05> I been afraid exactly this to happen. I hate it to be right, sometimes
Feb 06 18:10:04 <thedead1440> DocScrutinizer05: just FYI: http://www.linkedin.com/in/justindugger
Feb 06 18:10:35 <merlin1991> anybody kept a list of the hashsum madness packages?
Feb 06 18:10:59 <merlin1991> hm wait can't do squat, wrong ssh priv key here
Feb 06 18:19:23 <n900-dk> merlin1991: eg. shortcutd 0.1.4-1 and cutetube 1.4.1
Feb 06 18:19:37 <merlin1991> n900-dk: cutetube 1.4.1 works fine
Feb 06 18:19:40 <merlin1991> (at least here)
Feb 06 18:19:45 <merlin1991> and I checked the checksum on the repo
Feb 06 18:19:57 <merlin1991> though I suggest running apt-get upgrade once before checking it again
Feb 06 18:20:09 <merlin1991> it seems the server got sane(er) at some point
Feb 06 18:24:41 <n900-dk> merlin1991: How come the MD5sum in packages.bz2 for cutetube 1.4.1 isn't the same as for the cutetube_1.4.1_armel.deb file?
Feb 06 18:25:01 <n900-dk> in extras-devel!
Feb 06 18:25:23 <merlin1991> I only checked the plain packages file
Feb 06 18:25:33 <merlin1991> damn need todo the compressed ones too
Feb 06 18:30:02 <kerio> ...no you don't? you just need to compress the Packages file
Feb 06 18:30:25 <kerio> unless you mean building Release
Feb 06 18:31:15 <merlin1991> kerio: I first need to check if the files on the repo are actually foobar
Feb 06 18:31:30 <merlin1991> then I can go find a way to rebuild them from Packages and sign the result
Feb 06 18:33:59 <kerio> merlin1991: lintian all the .debs?
Feb 06 18:39:14 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: don't worry about pwnguin, I caught him with a /query and put things straight :-D
Feb 06 18:39:37 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: he asked the wrong question, for his purpose
Feb 06 18:39:48 <DocScrutinizer05> kinda, maybe
Feb 06 18:40:03 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, no damage done
Feb 06 18:40:46 <kerio> hm, and now i kinda miss not being the dude who screwed up the free osuosl hosting :D
Feb 06 18:44:23 <DocScrutinizer05> which would be quite nice if it happens
Feb 06 18:45:28 <RiD> argh stupid battery
Feb 06 18:46:09 <RiD> if this thing shuts off while transferring files i'll get mad
Feb 06 18:49:36 <n900-dk> Does HAM keep the packages.bz2 in memory, or does it keep a local file copy?
Feb 06 18:49:51 <kerio> n900-dk: /var/cache/apt/lists
Feb 06 18:50:56 <n900-dk> dont have this file
Feb 06 18:51:15 <kerio> er, sorry
Feb 06 18:51:18 <kerio> /var/lib/apt/lists
Feb 06 18:57:57 <n900-dk> these files are downloaded every time HAM updates?
Feb 06 18:59:57 <kerio> if they're changed
Feb 06 19:00:12 <kerio> we actually don't know if apt-worker would support pdiffs
Feb 06 19:00:18 <kerio> (incremental downloads)
Feb 06 19:02:05 <n900-dk> ohh, I see. Could just see that list directory disappered, and showed up again, when I updated.
Feb 06 19:02:23 <n900-dk> but guess the list dir was moved to list.new
Feb 06 19:39:07 <fruct> hello all! please help me run backssh session in background? (on maemo 5)
Feb 06 20:10:03 <andre__> meh, https://bugs.maemo.org/ says DBD::mysql::db do failed: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction [for Statement "UPDATE logincookies SET lastused = NOW() WHERE cookie = ?"] at Bugzilla/Auth/Login/Cookie.pm line 83
Feb 06 20:10:08 <andre__> HELP!
Feb 06 20:14:01 <DocScrutinizer05> andre__: !!!! :-)
Feb 06 20:26:00 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: hm, hypothetically, if we moved to osuosl, could we avoid the double migration?
Feb 06 20:28:01 <DocScrutinizer05> that's the plan :-)
Feb 06 20:28:16 <DocScrutinizer05> let's see if it pans out
Feb 06 20:28:19 <kerio> i wonder how they'll react when we tell them about the 12 VMs
Feb 06 20:28:37 <DocScrutinizer05> they already know, that's not scary for them
Feb 06 20:29:10 <DocScrutinizer05> it's actually rather on the lower end of what they're willing to deal with
Feb 06 20:29:34 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a "too small for us" on osuosl
Feb 06 20:29:42 <kerio> :o
Feb 06 20:29:50 <kerio> hey, we still have 40k users
Feb 06 20:30:03 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, that's just ok for them
Feb 06 20:30:06 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui
Feb 06 20:30:11 <wulfe> lol
Feb 06 20:31:01 <wulfe> kinda sad when you go in to a deal thinking "yeah were bad ass" and they respond with "oh thats all?"
Feb 06 20:31:52 <kerio> it's even worse when you go in thinking "i hope it's not too much" and you get "nope, too little"
Feb 06 20:32:14 <wulfe> still though were probably the most dedicated linux users that are out there.
Feb 06 20:35:18 <kerio> hahahaha
Feb 06 20:35:19 <kerio> funny
Feb 06 20:43:40 <n900-dk> Why is the lastest announcement on maemo.org from 2010??
Feb 06 20:47:50 <DocScrutinizer05> good question
Feb 06 20:48:17 <DocScrutinizer05> some blamed migration hickups
Feb 06 20:49:42 <n900-dk> there were newer announcements before migration?
Feb 06 20:51:23 <DocScrutinizer05> another good question
Feb 06 20:54:53 <M4rtinK> I think there weren't
Feb 06 20:56:08 <n900-dk> guess nothing happend since 2010 then ;)
Feb 06 22:07:57 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds about right
Feb 06 22:29:22 <framework_nulled> Can anyone help me with my nokia n900, It just randomly turned off and won't boot up now.
Feb 06 22:31:52 <kerio> framework_nulled: checked battery?
Feb 06 22:32:00 <kerio> i'm not sure how you'd do that, but...
Feb 06 22:32:14 <kerio> was it full/half-full/half-empty/empty?
Feb 06 22:32:23 <framework_nulled> It was full
Feb 06 22:32:43 <kerio> framework_nulled: remove it, wait a bit, put it back, try turning it on again
Feb 06 22:32:46 <kerio> no, wait
Feb 06 22:32:51 <kerio> what do you mean by "won't boot up"?
Feb 06 22:33:02 <kerio> i just assumed that it meant "doesn't give any sign of life"
Feb 06 22:33:02 <framework_nulled> When I turn the nokia on it shows me the nokia screen
Feb 06 22:33:05 <framework_nulled> Then switches back off
Feb 06 22:33:08 <kerio> hm
Feb 06 22:33:16 <kerio> what does the indicator led do?
Feb 06 22:33:36 <framework_nulled> flashes an amber colour
Feb 06 22:33:44 <kerio> hm
Feb 06 22:34:00 <kerio> and pushing the power button again does...?
Feb 06 22:34:30 <framework_nulled> Nothing, I have to remove the battery for a few minutes, Then when I put it back in the same thing happens again
Feb 06 22:34:43 <kerio> hm
Feb 06 22:34:52 <kerio> that's kinda weird
Feb 06 22:35:39 <kerio> it's as if it's stuck in ACT_DEAD mode
Feb 06 22:36:06 <kerio> are you sure that when the amber led flashes, you can't do anything apart for removing the battery to get the n900 to do *something*?
Feb 06 22:36:30 <framework_nulled> yeah, once the phone switches back off it does nothing at all
Feb 06 22:36:36 <framework_nulled> led goes blank
Feb 06 22:36:47 <framework_nulled> no matter how many times i try to power it up again nothing happens
Feb 06 22:36:50 <kerio> hm
Feb 06 22:36:58 <kerio> did the usb port give any problems?
Feb 06 22:37:18 <framework_nulled> usb doesn't pick it up at all
Feb 06 22:37:23 <kerio> no, i meant before
Feb 06 22:37:28 <framework_nulled> oh, no
Feb 06 22:37:35 <kerio> ~n900-full-reset
Feb 06 22:37:35 <infobot> methinks n900-full-reset is when the user presses the PWRON (power-on) button for 8 seconds and removes the battery in the next 8 seconds, the TPS65950 enters NO SUPPLY state instead of BACKUP state, even if a valid backup battery is present. In such a situation, the backup domain registers are also reset, along with the VRRTC domain registers.
Feb 06 22:38:24 <kerio> try making it boot again, then when it gets in the weird state where it does nothing, hold the power button for 8 seconds and then remove the battery
Feb 06 22:39:10 <kerio> alternatively, try removing the battery for a couple of minutes and put it back again
Feb 06 22:39:34 <framework_nulled> ok, i'll try that, thanks for the help
Feb 06 22:40:01 <ShadowJK> does 2-second powerbutton push in act_dead mode cause full boot?
Feb 06 22:45:48 <framework_nulled> nothing at all now, just a red led light flashing
Feb 06 22:45:59 <framework_nulled> other than that everything seems to be dead
Feb 06 22:46:13 <kerio> you have to *hold* the powerbutton, as usual
Feb 06 22:47:11 <framework_nulled> i was holding it, still done nothing
Feb 06 22:47:24 <RiD> what does a full reset do
Feb 06 22:48:05 <kerio> ideally, clean up some usb weirdness
Feb 06 22:49:00 <ShadowJK> Sounds weird that it'd all of the sudden constantly think it has charger connected
Feb 06 22:50:49 <kerio> it could still be a battery problem
Feb 06 22:51:18 <ShadowJK> hm
Feb 06 22:53:43 <DocScrutinizer05> wait, *red* LED?
Feb 06 22:54:52 <DocScrutinizer05> afaik red flashing LED means battery defect
Feb 06 22:56:49 <DocScrutinizer05> while "ACT_DEAD" on "normal" boot could also mean it's doing a fsck
Feb 06 22:57:34 <framework_nulled> yeah it was flashing red
Feb 06 22:57:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I bashed this bug of missing user feedback during /home fsck several times now
Feb 06 22:57:41 <framework_nulled> flashing amber now
Feb 06 22:59:30 <DocScrutinizer05> flashing amber should only happen with USB attached to something that delivers 5V
Feb 06 23:00:15 <DocScrutinizer05> is the device attached to PC or charger?
Feb 06 23:00:17 <framework_nulled> I plugged the charger back in and after a few minutes it started flashing amber
Feb 06 23:00:29 <RiD> how am i supposed to clean n900's filthy screen?
Feb 06 23:00:46 <kerio> framework_nulled: with the n900 still plugged in, try turning it on
Feb 06 23:01:35 <framework_nulled> it went back to flashing red once i tried to turn it on
Feb 06 23:01:45 <DocScrutinizer05> battery defect
Feb 06 23:01:57 <kerio> :(
Feb 06 23:02:10 <kerio> oh well, bl-5js are cheap
Feb 06 23:02:26 <kerio> especially if you buy a (good) chinese battery
Feb 06 23:02:30 <framework_nulled> so just order a new battery?
Feb 06 23:02:31 <SpeedEvil> RiD: replace the screen protector
Feb 06 23:02:36 <DocScrutinizer05> no warranty, but 98% sure
Feb 06 23:03:17 <RiD> SpeedEvil i'm not usign any screen protector
Feb 06 23:03:19 <RiD> using
Feb 06 23:03:19 <SpeedEvil> RiD: or clean with a little soap, on a moist (not dripping!) cloth
Feb 06 23:03:41 <RiD> i tried with a moist cloth
Feb 06 23:03:46 <SpeedEvil> RiD: then put on a screen protector, which will hide scratches
Feb 06 23:03:47 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: how's the battery fault diagnosed?
Feb 06 23:03:59 <kerio> voltage?
Feb 06 23:04:05 <SpeedEvil> kerio: high ESR, I think
Feb 06 23:04:05 <RiD> but i can feel the different layers of dirt
Feb 06 23:04:13 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: no idea
Feb 06 23:04:26 <SpeedEvil> or no contact on pin 2
Feb 06 23:04:50 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Feb 06 23:06:07 <DocScrutinizer05> RiD: are you sure that's not silicon oil coming out from digitizer on a puncture?
Feb 06 23:06:56 <RiD> o_o
Feb 06 23:07:14 <RiD> i do have a small puncture since phone's 1st week
Feb 06 23:07:28 <RiD> thanks to my brother who was "having fun" with a joystick usb cable
Feb 06 23:07:34 <RiD> that ended up hitting the n900 as strong as it could
Feb 06 23:07:56 <RiD> but other than that no, and it's filthier on the left side... anyways, i'll leave that for tomorrow. It's definitely better than what it used to be
Feb 06 23:09:25 <ShadowJK> microfibre cloths are awesome
Feb 06 23:10:24 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed, except that black one coming with the N900, which is soaked in wax or silicon oil
Feb 06 23:10:37 <DocScrutinizer05> absolute crap
Feb 06 23:11:03 <DocScrutinizer05> worst cleaning cloth I ever seen
Feb 06 23:11:19 <RiD> Nokia pre-crisis saving techniques
Feb 06 23:12:21 <DocScrutinizer05> best one came with a USB HDD :-o
Feb 06 23:13:17 <DocScrutinizer05> it's just hardly the size of a cigarette package
Feb 06 23:14:07 <DocScrutinizer05> has 2 different textures on the 2 sides. and I use it since 2 years. It's awesome
Feb 06 23:14:24 <RiD> "2 sides". Would it by any chance have 3? :O
Feb 06 23:15:45 <kerio> the main focus being "two different textures"
Feb 06 23:15:45 <DocScrutinizer05> it's been what you call back reference
Feb 06 23:16:12 <kerio> also, i'd like a mobius strip-shaped cleaning cloth, just to say that i have one
Feb 06 23:16:30 <DocScrutinizer05> one side, awesome
Feb 06 23:16:49 <DocScrutinizer05> a cloth that has only one side
Feb 06 23:17:00 <SpeedEvil> surely more appropriate would be a Kliening bottle.
Feb 06 23:17:51 * DocScrutinizer05 tries to figure the Kliening bottle, but fails
Feb 06 23:18:33 <kerio> SpeedEvil: too little dimensions
Feb 06 23:18:47 <kerio> you need four
Feb 06 23:19:32 <kerio> and it wouldn't hold any 4-dimensional cleaning liquid :(
Feb 06 23:27:50 <deepy> kerio: I am disappointed, why didn't you remind me that I forgot to rejoin :(?
Feb 06 23:28:17 <kerio> idk, i thought you got bored
Feb 06 23:28:51 <kerio> so, how's it going?
Feb 06 23:28:52 <RiD> time to leave the boat
Feb 06 23:28:53 <deepy> I'm amazed how little  faith people have in me
Feb 06 23:29:11 <deepy> I might win another phone haha
Feb 06 23:29:34 <deepy> LG is holding another contest and I'm in first place again
Feb 06 23:36:26 <framework_nulled> phone just booted up, lights went yellow then the screen came back on
Feb 06 23:57:46 <DocScrutinizer05> amazing
Feb 07 00:01:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I still think your battery has a hw defect
Feb 07 00:03:32 <SpeedEvil> deepy: what is?
Feb 07 00:03:35 <SpeedEvil> os
Feb 07 00:03:39 <SpeedEvil> android?
Feb 07 00:07:10 <Ethernin> hey any of u guys compiling mdk3 on the N900?
Feb 07 00:07:43 <Ethernin> mdk3.c:2868: more undefined references to `pthread_create' follow
Feb 07 00:07:56 <Ethernin> im assuming it's some pthread lib i need...
Feb 07 00:10:34 <cehteh> Ethernin: i am quite certain that pthreads are available on the n900
Feb 07 00:11:18 <cehteh> i dont know what mdk3 is and how its build, but a -pthread option to compiler and linker should fix that
Feb 07 00:11:34 <Ethernin> cehteh, thanks man i figured it out
Feb 07 00:11:46 <Ethernin> yeah that's exactly what did it, thanks!
Feb 07 00:11:58 <Ethernin> mdk3 is a VERY powerfull wifi tool
Feb 07 00:12:01 <Ethernin> ^_^
Feb 07 00:12:05 <Ethernin> u should check it out!
Feb 07 00:12:13 <Ethernin> http://homepages.tu-darmstadt.de/~p_larbig/wlan/#mdk3
Feb 07 00:12:29 <cehteh> guess i dont really need it
Feb 07 00:12:30 <Ethernin> http://hackingwifi.blogspot.com/2008/12/mdk3-on-ubuntu.html  - that's where i found your -pthread solution
Feb 07 00:12:49 <Ethernin> yeah, my job is to break things like wireless so it helps :)
Feb 07 00:36:21 <ccxCZ> hmm, I see mpc in the repo, but not mpd for some reason...
Feb 07 00:39:04 * ccxCZ is afraid alsa from chroot won't work because of pulseaudio
Feb 07 00:50:05 <ccxCZ> how would I go about building packages from source for n900?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 07 02:59:58 2013