**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 10 02:59:58 2013 Feb 10 04:58:43 hey guys, would anyone know why my n900 appears to be charging but the battery still goes dead? Feb 10 04:59:11 what do you mean by goes dead Feb 10 04:59:19 and how old is the battery Feb 10 04:59:25 the battery doesn't charge Feb 10 04:59:26 2 days old Feb 10 04:59:33 i had the same problem a week ago Feb 10 04:59:38 so i bought 2 new batteries Feb 10 04:59:40 sigh Feb 10 05:00:00 you're charging from the wall charger? Feb 10 05:00:05 yeah Feb 10 05:00:16 have you tried another charger? Feb 10 05:00:21 and/or cord Feb 10 05:00:36 nortti, i only have one Feb 10 05:00:43 no*, i only have one Feb 10 05:01:18 do you have a cord to plug into a PC? Feb 10 05:01:23 does that work? Feb 10 05:01:42 yeah i have a cord for the pc Feb 10 05:01:57 it works but it's the same thing, the n900 screen shows it's charging Feb 10 05:02:00 but it really isn't Feb 10 05:03:07 there are unfortunately limited options. in principle you might try flashing Feb 10 05:03:18 it may be a hardware failure though. Feb 10 05:03:37 is the USB jack unreliable? Feb 10 05:03:57 yes, the usb sucks Feb 10 05:04:14 when i was updating maemo it kept disconnecting because of the usb Feb 10 05:04:42 it's possible you have a USB connector in the process of falling off Feb 10 05:05:03 in principle it can be soldered down again, but... Feb 10 08:40:16 charge21.sh Feb 10 08:42:51 anyone have guesstimates what's the chances of a microusb breaking, or MTBF of failure if it's doomed to fail? Feb 10 09:00:13 I guess you're not interested in the 5k or 10k mating rounds it's specified for Feb 10 09:10:57 chances for N900 microusb receptacle breaking and coming off the PCB are: (personal-hulk-factor + plug-nasty-factor) ^ you-got-one-of-the-weak-N900-factor / 4242 per unmating event Feb 10 09:17:09 eccerr0r: on a more honest and helpful note - never apply bending or non-axial force to your USB plug, I.E. don't stumble over the cable, don't let the N900 drop when plugged to USB, don't lay it on the desk with any object under the plug, and take care when unplugging to not apply any force perpendicular to the plug/cable axis, and you may never see it fail. Feb 10 09:18:12 never place N900 on soft deep surfaces like sofa, bed, pillow etc Feb 10 09:18:20 when USB plugged in Feb 10 09:19:26 when typing while plugged, make sure to not support the device with your (left) hand on plug Feb 10 09:20:35 and consider: Feb 10 09:20:40 ~usbfix Feb 10 09:20:40 usbfix is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Feb 10 09:21:07 eccerr0r: ^^^ Feb 10 09:24:58 eccerr0r: basically MTBF of N900 USB and this http://www.arnstadtkristall-shop.de/out/pictures/master/product/1/5637.jpg are quite identical to guestimate Feb 10 09:25:48 the relevant factors differ slightly between the two, but the basic formula is identical Feb 10 09:27:33 though, unlike for the latter object, for the N900 you can do something to massively increase the MTBF. See ~usbfix thread Feb 10 09:28:46 for the latter object all you can do is: take care and use rarely. Same works for N900 USB as well Feb 10 09:29:32 s/take/handle with great/ Feb 10 09:29:33 DocScrutinizer05 meant: for the latter object all you can do is: handle with great care and use rarely. Same works for N900 USB as well Feb 10 09:30:36 but... i have to charge about once per day :( Feb 10 09:31:16 well, and I *do*, since err 4(?) years now, without any problems Feb 10 09:37:22 I got a (probably) pretty special way to unplug USB from N900 though: with my left thumb's fingernail I slide in between plug and N900 body at the "lower" small side of the plug, hold the "upper" small side of plug with my index finger first joint, then pry out the plug by counter-clockwide motion of my thumb. I don't even need to hold the N900 body during this action Feb 10 09:39:22 it's virtually impossible to apply destructive force to USB recepatcle this way Feb 10 09:40:09 * kerio pulls from the cable, taking care to pull straight Feb 10 09:40:57 also a good method, particularly for those without fingernails :-) Feb 10 09:42:22 i have fingernails, but i also have an otterbox Feb 10 09:43:08 best general advice: never grab the plug at the wide sides, like everybody would usually do Feb 10 09:44:19 best you never even touch the side with USB logo and the backside Feb 10 09:44:45 DocScrutinizer05: "everybody"? Feb 10 09:45:11 how the hell do you fit your finger between the plug and the table? Feb 10 09:45:14 there's not nearly enough space Feb 10 09:45:15 pressure on logo side with as little as 100g force might already destroy the receptacle Feb 10 09:45:36 kerio: huh? Feb 10 09:45:54 DocScrutinizer05: to grab the plug from above and below Feb 10 09:46:08 well, I never do Feb 10 09:46:26 it's exactly what I just deprecated to ever do Feb 10 09:47:37 my point is that it's kinda impossible Feb 10 09:47:40 unless you've got really tiny fingers Feb 10 09:47:54 unless you pick up the N900, fool Feb 10 09:48:09 :O Feb 10 09:48:11 you can do that?! Feb 10 09:48:58 anyway, now i'm worried about the pressure exerted by the rubber thing that closes up the musb port when not in use Feb 10 09:49:15 i need a dynamometer Feb 10 10:01:15 what worries me are occasional results like >>So 10. Feb 10:09:10 CET 2013 real 3m14.792s<< for >>echo -n "`date` "; (time wget -p --no-cache --delete-after http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware -q ) 2>&1 | grep real<< Feb 10 10:01:23 wow, loads of ways to pull the USB cable from the N900. Feb 10 10:01:40 despite firewall not being locked or tired Feb 10 10:01:53 DocScrutinizer05: its weird; during that time mine shows 7s :p Feb 10 10:02:11 Personally, I have the device rest against my chest, looking at the USB port when looking down, then squeeze it out with a thumb and index finger. Feb 10 10:02:30 speaking of which, I got a (not so new, but acceptable) N900. Feb 10 10:02:41 yay Feb 10 10:03:02 Hurrian: do you also cuddle with the n900 a bit afterwards? Feb 10 10:03:19 kerio: If I had a N900-shaped body-size pillow, I would. Feb 10 10:03:38 Hurrian: yep, squeezing out on the small sides is also a good method I often use, but it's hard to explain to the motorically disabled ;-) Feb 10 10:05:51 thedead1440: I'm not sure where from those glitches come Feb 10 10:06:20 thedead1440: occasional package loss? Feb 10 10:06:21 DocScrutinizer05: could be those same network issues which make me give you false alarms :D Feb 10 10:06:41 could just be a bad connection due to ISP etc Feb 10 10:07:20 hmm, but shouldn't that also show with my usual activities on PC? Feb 10 10:08:00 like googling, ircing etc Feb 10 10:08:17 not too sure; could be a server side thing or isps on both ends Feb 10 10:08:35 * kerio has a 60ms end-to-end RTT to freenode Feb 10 10:08:36 a 3min+ connectivity dropout would hardy go unnoticed Feb 10 10:08:38 like you said occasional packet loss Feb 10 10:09:19 since the past 8 hours i'm getting between 7-8s even though it seems faster doing it via browser Feb 10 10:09:35 anyway, we're already in the process to get rid of that friggin firewall completely Feb 10 10:09:45 there have 4 anomalous results during this time of 10, 10, 28 and 20s Feb 10 10:09:58 yup the faster its gotten rid off the better :D Feb 10 10:10:52 probably I'll move my mini-watchdoggie to lists.m.o then ;-P Feb 10 10:10:58 hehe Feb 10 10:11:36 this friggin thing seen 2 total lockups during last 3 weeks, and nobody knows what been wrong Feb 10 10:11:46 bootable only via "console" Feb 10 10:12:21 well leave it its 2weeks+ before its gotten rid of so fight your other battles :p Feb 10 10:12:41 :nod: Feb 10 10:13:17 we already should make a decision pro IPHH and push board to nod off the server move Feb 10 10:13:43 taking into account board decision finding speed, it's already too late Feb 10 10:13:46 what's stopping it then? Council is in favour so just get hifo to sign it off Feb 10 10:14:10 I'll drive it tomorrow Feb 10 10:14:13 thedead1440: nobody knows wtf hifo board is doing Feb 10 10:14:31 kerio: they are doing things? o.O we thought they do nothing :-p Feb 10 10:14:46 well except for puttign up road-blocks Feb 10 10:14:50 putting* Feb 10 10:15:48 well, board is dealing with all the bureaucracy that sneaks in with legalese stuff. I'm not up to judge on this Feb 10 10:16:46 I'm not sure though if involvement of real lawyers into the process speeds it up or slows it down Feb 10 10:17:36 DocScrutinizer05: competency+abilities can't be judged by just being "real" Feb 10 10:19:01 anyway those guys at HiFo deal with Nokia and Nokia's lawyers, something I rather wouldn't like to do Feb 10 10:20:02 but for us mere mortals, HiFo decission processes are usually just too slow Feb 10 10:20:29 no matter who's to blame for that (probably Nokia) Feb 10 10:21:15 * thedead1440 bites his tongue Feb 10 10:22:20 so, tomorrow I will try to reach out to rest of council and to warfare and our sysop-volunteers in spe, and try to promote request for signing off move of server to IPHH Feb 10 10:23:45 I'm convinced it's our best option, even compared to OSUOSL Feb 10 10:24:09 indeed; EU over the US anyday Feb 10 10:24:24 and it's about time to get 2nd migration step kicked off Feb 10 10:24:48 we got another 18 days to accomplish *everything* Feb 10 10:25:06 'mornig... Feb 10 10:25:18 shipping allone will take 2..3 days I guess Feb 10 10:25:26 xes: morning Feb 10 10:27:02 another 2 days to initiate shipping, another 2..3 for paperwork with IPHH, installing server to rack and installation/setup/config of system Feb 10 10:27:27 DocScrutinizer05: ideally you get approval by Tuesday, Wednesday shipping is initiated and next week migration proper begins Feb 10 10:27:50 this makes already 7 days *normal* case, before we even can *start* migration of the VMs Feb 10 10:28:12 how long will the shipping take? Feb 10 10:28:37 thedead1440: this calculation of mine did _not_ include HiFo sign-off delays Feb 10 10:29:01 nor weekend delays, e.g during shipping Feb 10 10:29:53 kerio: warfare quoted 300EUR for UPS, 47 for DHL Feb 10 10:30:16 i didn't know time could be measured in eur Feb 10 10:30:18 so speed is reciproque to that I guess Feb 10 10:30:27 haha Feb 10 10:30:29 DocScrutinizer05: what do you mean reciproque Feb 10 10:30:32 time is money Feb 10 10:30:38 err speed is analog, time is rezi Feb 10 10:31:11 it's not money⁻¹ Feb 10 10:31:27 I estimate 'next day' delivery for the 300EUR UPS shipping Feb 10 10:31:37 a week for DHL 47EUR offer Feb 10 10:31:57 hm, UPS is more convenient Feb 10 10:32:03 humm ...usually dhl asks 47 euro for a box of matches... Feb 10 10:32:44 DocScrutinizer05: you could go to finland, grab the servers and travel back to IPHH too since you are in need of a break anyway :p Feb 10 10:32:47 warfare assumed 40kg for this critter Feb 10 10:33:09 thedead1440: 40kg is quite heavy though Feb 10 10:33:14 he'd take a long time Feb 10 10:33:31 thedead1440: haha, good plan, but the tickets will be even more than 300 Feb 10 10:33:46 oh, you want to take the plane? :s Feb 10 10:33:51 and 40kg is too much for luggage Feb 10 10:34:12 DocScrutinizer05: wear it Feb 10 10:34:25 kerio: you plan to kill him early? :p Feb 10 10:34:40 hmm, yeah, should actually fit into hand baggage Feb 10 10:35:09 I mean, it's a 2U rackmount Feb 10 10:36:25 hell, once I planned to carry a R&S CMU200 from TPE to Germany Feb 10 10:36:40 so this critter can't be as hard as that Feb 10 10:37:46 that R&S thingie is cool Feb 10 10:40:04 yeah, and friggin cheap when refurbished: only 20k to 40k$ Feb 10 10:40:18 new it's more like 150k Feb 10 10:41:03 and for some tests you like to have two of them. Or three ;-D Feb 10 10:41:05 didn't TPE have some cheap knock-offs of it Feb 10 10:41:12 hahaha Feb 10 10:42:21 alas all the refurbished ones back when were "not siuted for 3G, since base processor too weak" (according to R&S service) Feb 10 10:42:51 DocScrutinizer05: do you actually own one of those? Feb 10 10:43:29 so in the end I didn't use a single penny of my montly 20k budget for hw purchases Feb 10 10:45:28 kerio: nope Feb 10 10:45:33 see above Feb 10 10:46:11 I also questioned the proper duty cycle of such a machine here in Germany in my home lab Feb 10 10:47:14 such a machine needs to get used, at least a dozen times a month, otherwise you're better off leasing or renting it, or outsourcing whatever you want to get done Feb 10 10:48:01 and 50% of time I been in Openmoko's TPE headquarters&lab at that time, anyway Feb 10 10:48:16 DocScrutinizer05: yeah but... it's really cool Feb 10 10:48:18 where we had 3 or 4 of them Feb 10 10:49:16 yeah, it's actually a phone and BTS emulator Feb 10 10:50:49 using 2 CMU200 as phones and one as BTS you probably can actually establish a call Feb 10 10:51:21 (comes with handset ;-D ) Feb 10 10:53:51 well, the audio extension does Feb 10 10:54:04 DocScrutinizer05: how good is the reception? Feb 10 10:54:09 :D Feb 10 10:54:21 see datasheet Feb 10 10:54:37 rather TRM Feb 10 10:54:53 which is several 1000 pages Feb 10 10:56:14 weight and volume of printed docs > CMU200 itself Feb 10 10:57:15 kerio: I *could* look it up for you, since I still have all the pdf versions on this very laptop, but honestly I'm too lazy Feb 10 10:57:22 nah, don't bother Feb 10 10:57:39 does it have an internal antenna, or do you have to use an external one? Feb 10 10:57:50 only external ant Feb 10 10:57:59 it's lab equipment Feb 10 10:58:04 so it wouldn't be very practical as a cellphone huh Feb 10 10:58:21 yea, also no battery operation Feb 10 10:58:51 they usually use special vans to drive those critteres around Feb 10 10:59:16 those with lotsa antennae on the roof Feb 10 11:03:50 xes: any experience with shipping servers? Feb 10 11:05:03 DocScrutinizer05: yes... the server we have is already assembled? Feb 10 11:05:27 err, dunno. It's still not unboxed. OP Feb 10 11:05:49 I guess Feb 10 11:06:09 sitting at Nemein office Feb 10 11:07:26 so I guess it will be "mostly assembled", maybe minus the HDD or sth Feb 10 11:07:53 which should be hot swappable plug in Feb 10 11:08:33 usually the safest way should be ship it with a pallet putting disks in a protected box Feb 10 11:08:44 but when it comes to shipping: it's already boxed for transport Feb 10 11:10:38 I'm more interested in a commonly used special transport option or whatever, if such stuff exists Feb 10 11:11:23 like "only use 'UPS server transport', ever!" Feb 10 11:12:16 I know for micros like size of a fridge, ther are special companies only transporting delicate equipment like this Feb 10 11:12:58 much similar to when you have a piano to move Feb 10 11:13:09 no, the only options i know is insurance and pallet (to avoid courier's "kick") Feb 10 11:13:13 there's piano movers for that Feb 10 11:13:36 :nod: many thanks Feb 10 11:13:57 or internal company couriers..but it's not our situation Feb 10 11:14:09 :nod: Feb 10 11:14:56 if you order 50k euro of ibm server i can ensure that ibm uses their couriers ;) Feb 10 11:15:21 DocScrutinizer05: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=419828 Feb 10 11:15:34 so I guess when Nemein re-uses the packaging the server came in/with, and we put proper insurance on it, we will be fine Feb 10 11:16:02 xes: yes, or those special IT movers Feb 10 11:16:17 as subcontractors. At least Siemens does Feb 10 11:17:11 so they are going to ship the server empty as arrived? Feb 10 11:23:40 was the server tested? Feb 10 11:30:41 kerio: I'd guess the builder should have tested the server Feb 10 11:31:39 sd69/Rob requested a 24h burnin from Nemein. I dunno if it's wise (I mean it, I dunno) Feb 10 11:32:36 thedead1440: (link) 2005, USA, baseline:"we don't know either" Feb 10 11:32:48 I can't believe that 47eur figure from dhl either Feb 10 11:32:58 yeah Feb 10 11:33:01 (just read backlog) Feb 10 11:33:30 well, that's what warfare checked up "for me" during 10 min Feb 10 11:33:40 470 would sound less surprising Feb 10 11:40:51 DHL De-Fi 40EUR+~100EUR insurance, 6 working days. Max weight 31.5kg Feb 10 11:41:27 for Fi->De I probably have to use their finnish website :-/ Feb 10 11:43:03 am i wrong or with dhl you have also to specify the size of tha packaging to calculate the price? Feb 10 11:43:14 What's the biggest package in extras? Feb 10 11:43:34 Updated from cssu7.1-thumb0 to cssu7.2-thumb0. After re-start hildon-status-menu and pulseaudio are stuck at very high cpu usage. Any way to resolve ? Feb 10 11:43:52 qwazix: as in the size of the single deb? Feb 10 11:44:08 MetalGearSolid: "stuck" how? Feb 10 11:44:17 kerio, yes, I'm trying to test the timeout Feb 10 11:44:43 but rmo is lightning fast today and xorg isn't big enough Feb 10 11:44:44 qwazix: ping Feb 10 11:44:46 qwazix: the rootstraps are ~40M Feb 10 11:44:48 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/armel/ Feb 10 11:45:44 hm? I'll try that but I would prefer to do it via apt-get. They've made some specific config for maemo vs browser uploads AIUI Feb 10 11:45:49 hildon-status-menu constantly using 60% cpu and pulseaudio at 30%. Just restarted. Feb 10 11:47:13 qwazix: the biggest seems to be jammo-data ~746MB Feb 10 11:48:39 xes thx Feb 10 11:51:37 xes: here DHL says "60*60*120cm max" Feb 10 11:52:27 http://www.dhl.de/de/paket/pakete-versenden/weltweit-versenden/laenderseiten/finnland.html Feb 10 11:53:29 http://www.dhl.de/de/paket/pakete-versenden/weltweit-versenden/paket.html Feb 10 11:54:08 Oh "pakete"! I don't know why I read "perkele" :D Feb 10 11:55:34 DocScrutinizer05: size should be enough, weight has to be verified,,, 31 kg is not so much Feb 10 11:56:27 :nod: Feb 10 12:03:02 DocScrutinizer05: will we need more equipment? Feb 10 12:03:19 i don't know how colocation works Feb 10 12:07:48 no, we just need the additional drives warfare specified Feb 10 12:08:43 4TB for the server, plus some drives for $somewhere, for backup, aiui Feb 10 12:09:11 i meant something like a monitor, or a kvm switch Feb 10 12:11:52 for UPS: Fi(HEL)->De(HH) 5h:970EUR; 6.5h:903EUR; 14h:843EUR; 80h:320EUR Feb 10 12:12:00 freemangordon, noob steps to build embedlite? :) :) Feb 10 12:12:13 kerio: already integrated Feb 10 12:12:19 qwazix: follow the instructions Feb 10 12:12:23 they work Feb 10 12:12:30 almost :D Feb 10 12:13:01 qwazix: you'll need python2.7 from extras-devel installed in SB Feb 10 12:13:23 instructions here? https://github.com/tmeshkova/mozilla-central Feb 10 12:13:29 qwazix: export PYTHON=/usr/bin/python2.7 Feb 10 12:13:31 freemangordon, ok Feb 10 12:13:35 before builing Feb 10 12:13:41 lemme check Feb 10 12:14:02 qwazix: here https://wiki.mozilla.org/Embedding/IPCLiteAPI#Development_Build_instructions Feb 10 12:14:15 (UPS) that's for a package of a asumed size 80*60*60; for palette they don't offer online pricing Feb 10 12:15:15 freemangordon, thx. I'll ping you if I get stuck Feb 10 12:15:20 qwazix: ping me when you are on embedlite-components step, I'll help you to build it Feb 10 12:15:28 qwazix: sure Feb 10 12:17:05 DocScrutinizer05: maybe that nemein has a subscription with some courier. If we ask them to organize the shipping for sure we may obtain a better price and they could ask for the pallette option when calling for the pick Feb 10 12:22:03 yep Feb 10 12:46:52 [2013-02-10 13:27:25] The current packaging is fine I think, as for shipping I have no idea right now Feb 10 12:47:04 [2013-02-10 13:28:42] well, it's full-lenght 19" rack server, 2 units and lot's of padding Feb 10 12:47:28 [2013-02-10 13:29:18] maybe 12-15kg in weight Feb 10 12:48:04 [2013-02-10 13:39:27] it's about 10-15cm padding per direction Feb 10 12:48:42 [2013-02-10 13:27:43] is the current packaging a palette? Feb 10 12:48:43 [2013-02-10 13:27:48] or a package Feb 10 12:48:44 [2013-02-10 13:27:52] package Feb 10 13:24:02 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html golden post of Igor from 2009 about N900 USB hostmode - just stumbled across it in my bookmarks. Feb 10 13:28:07 luckily I never took this for the last verdict on the matter, and rather did my reading between the lines. Otherwise probably no H-E-N today Feb 10 13:33:53 DocScrutinizer05: hey, it's true Feb 10 13:33:56 the n900 has no host mode Feb 10 13:34:28 indeed Feb 10 13:35:14 everything said by Nokia was sort of true Feb 10 13:35:25 indeed it hasn't. What Paul and me and a lot of others made possible is a lame simulation of hostmode Feb 10 13:35:57 DocScrutinizer05: a fairly decent one, though Feb 10 13:36:18 well, about as decent as it gets Feb 10 13:36:27 it just needs a bit of hardware support in the form of a self-powered hub Feb 10 13:37:09 well, not necessarily Feb 10 13:37:29 to do proper usb thingies Feb 10 13:37:31 though it makes things a lot easier to handle, yes Feb 10 13:37:31 like enumeration Feb 10 13:38:39 enumeration usually works, once the speed got set to correct one Feb 10 13:38:50 i mean automatic enumeration Feb 10 13:39:07 yeah, nothing automatic in our lame emulation Feb 10 13:39:18 that's a hw limitation Feb 10 13:40:07 speed detection and connect detection don't work. Period Feb 10 13:40:32 automatic enum needs connect detection Feb 10 13:41:19 we're driving each valve of the engine manually, thru all 4 strokes Feb 10 13:44:57 I guess we could streamline the kernel drivers for better bandwidth on USB though Feb 10 13:45:58 also I suspect there are still glitches in tear down of hostmode, regarding proper shutdown of buses and controllers/interfaces Feb 10 13:47:25 well, development in anything like that is a rather deadend story, since N900 USB is so special you can't re-use anything of it Feb 10 13:48:37 we got from "impossible, forget about it" to "you better eboot after using hostmode". I'm fine with that Feb 10 13:50:25 * DocScrutinizer05 returns to searching for excuses to not have to write up a proper time schedule for migration Feb 10 13:50:42 maybe just "since it's Sunday"? ;-P Feb 10 13:59:45 http://privatepaste.com/a5cd756228 http://privatepaste.com/034f857f49 *shrug* Feb 10 13:59:54 (FW reboot) Feb 10 14:00:56 DocScrutinizer05: wtf Feb 10 14:04:26 kerio: wtf? Feb 10 14:05:02 you need the scripties that produce that? or just a general "wtf" without further bothering? Feb 10 14:05:16 just a general wtf Feb 10 14:05:21 :nod: Feb 10 14:05:24 same here Feb 10 14:05:33 not that I care too much Feb 10 14:05:59 no more lockups of fw since I run those doggies Feb 10 14:06:35 the few reboots where you wonder "wtf id did THAT now?" are no real concern Feb 10 14:07:28 though I admit a cronjob probably would serve same purpose, but more embarrassing Feb 10 14:11:24 * DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to move the "local" watchdog tickler to cloud7 and create a livelog there, available via http ;-) Feb 10 14:12:02 which would be the first of above 2 links then. But then, who really cares? Feb 10 14:14:59 anyway, since this chan is so quiet ;-) Feb 10 14:15:14 jr@halebop:~> cat `which tickle-the-fw ` Feb 10 14:15:15 #!/bin/sh Feb 10 14:15:16 while sleep 300; do echo -n "`date` "; (time wget -p --no-cache --delete-after http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware -q ) 2>&1 | grep real; ssh -oConnectTimeout=4 -oProxyCommand="ssh newtmo nc %h %p" root@fw ./reboot1; done Feb 10 14:18:00 which mirror doesn't have hash sum problems? Feb 10 14:18:09 ~mirrors Feb 10 14:18:10 mirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Feb 10 14:18:22 thanks Feb 10 14:18:25 yw Feb 10 14:19:21 btw there are hash sum errors on testing too Feb 10 14:19:50 (but what I want now is on devel so merlin's mirror should be enough) Feb 10 14:20:11 qwazix: you know of a proper google docs time&project-planning tool where you could write up a time schedule for next 2.5weeks re server move and migration? Feb 10 14:20:56 hmm, spreadsheet maybe, don't know any other tool Feb 10 14:21:04 :nod: Feb 10 14:21:15 I can create gantt style chart in spreadsheet Feb 10 14:21:45 I don't know of google docs, so if you'd be willing to create something, a template at least. I might find the time to fill in the flesh Feb 10 14:23:06 Ok, you'll have it by tonight. Estimated time to ship? Feb 10 14:23:14 (for the server hw) Feb 10 14:23:31 that's the question we want to answer from that sheet Feb 10 14:24:09 I suggest to calculate backwards form final deadline 2013-03-01 Feb 10 14:24:40 Something went wrong with my pulseaudio after updating to 7.2cssu-thumb0. No sound in device and hildon-status-menu hangs possibly due to volume control applet. Any advice ? Feb 10 14:25:22 place abstract workpackages in, with dependencies, and we can assign changing timespans for completing those packages, and see what it gets us Feb 10 14:25:23 MetalGearSolid: what is your libxml2 version? Feb 10 14:25:44 MetalGearSolid: also, how did you upgrade? Feb 10 14:26:11 Updated repo's to that mentioned on dummies guide in HAM Feb 10 14:26:17 DocScrutinizer05, seems Planner is the tool for the job but that's offline Feb 10 14:26:46 MetalGearSolid: do you have cssu-devel enabled? Feb 10 14:27:02 qwazix: the 3 last parallel alternative workpackages ending at 03-01 are: integration-test on [IPHH | Hetzner | OSUOSL] Feb 10 14:27:46 no Feb 10 14:27:58 in three lines. from there go left and correlate interim deadines between the 3 lines Feb 10 14:28:00 how do i check libxml verison Feb 10 14:29:00 dpkg -l | grep libxml Feb 10 14:29:27 leftmost workpackage for all three lines is: evaluate which hoster to pick, this workpackage already started and is common for all three alternatives. We'll see which alternative will make it end first Feb 10 14:29:41 2.6.32.dfsg-5maemo4+0m5+0cssu1+thum0 Feb 10 14:29:56 that's ok Feb 10 14:30:13 MetalGearSolid: check if your pulseaudio and libpulse versions are the same Feb 10 14:30:15 DocScrutinizer05, found a nice tool for gantt on google spreadsheets, I'll check it out Feb 10 14:30:29 qwazix: many thanks Feb 10 14:31:43 qwazix: I intend to push the server move issue tomorrow. Entities to get involved: sysops, Council, Board Feb 10 14:33:09 I.E council and sysops/me will make a decision tomorrow what we suggest to board, then do that suggestion and ask them to hurry on decision making Feb 10 14:33:38 freemangordon, mozembed build aborts with zlib.error: Error -3 while decompressing data: incorrect data check Feb 10 14:33:54 Is it a known error? Feb 10 14:33:58 or, if we find out we have another 5 days for evaluation of alternatives left over, we will use them Feb 10 14:34:30 qwazix: no. Feb 10 14:34:53 qwazix: what do you build? mozilla-central? Feb 10 14:35:04 xulrunner package that is Feb 10 14:35:18 DocScrutinizer05, I doubt we have 5 days if we include the improbabilities but I'll do the chart and we'll see Feb 10 14:35:24 freemangordon, yes Feb 10 14:35:36 qwazix: are you on cssu-thumb? Feb 10 14:35:40 in SB? Feb 10 14:35:51 qwazix: I guess we have 5 days at least... *missing* Feb 10 14:36:26 freemangordon, yes. pastie.org/6109937 Feb 10 14:39:34 qwazix: you did export PYTHON=/usr/bin/python2.7, ain't? Feb 10 14:39:40 I did Feb 10 14:39:56 And I installed python2.7 from devel Feb 10 14:40:41 qwazix: NFC, something is broken in your SB Feb 10 14:41:04 how do you try to build it? with dpkg-buildpackage -frakeroot -b? Feb 10 14:41:16 ok, it well may be. Thanks I'll try to fix SB or reinstall it Feb 10 14:41:17 *-rfakeroot Feb 10 14:41:49 qwazix: try "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b" Feb 10 14:41:54 no, dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -b -nc -d Feb 10 14:42:03 try ^^^ Feb 10 14:42:08 (copied from moz wiki) Feb 10 14:42:09 ok Feb 10 14:42:26 it is for harm, I don;t think it will work in fremantle SB Feb 10 14:42:54 It needs -d too (because of debhelper) but still the same error Feb 10 14:43:55 qwazix: no, it should not need -d Feb 10 14:44:07 qwazix: are you sure you are on the latest source? Feb 10 14:44:16 git pull, please Feb 10 14:44:26 I just cloned git://github.com/tmeshkova/mozilla-central.git Feb 10 14:44:47 why do you need -d then? Feb 10 14:44:49 already up to date Feb 10 14:44:59 (maybe it's another branch?) Feb 10 14:45:03 what happens without -d? Feb 10 14:45:21 qwazix: ooh, you need to checkout embedlite branch Feb 10 14:45:40 without -d it complains: Unmet build dependencies debhelper<=7 Feb 10 14:45:46 without -d it complains: Unmet build dependencies debhelper***>=7 Feb 10 14:45:54 ah ok Feb 10 14:46:19 nah, already on embedlite Feb 10 14:46:21 qwazix: dpkg -l | grep debhelper Feb 10 14:46:21 ii debhelper 7.0.15-maemo2 helper programs for debian/rules Feb 10 14:46:32 this is what I have here Feb 10 14:47:01 I have 5.0.42-0osso1 Feb 10 14:47:20 qwazix: are you sure thisi is fremantle SB? looks like diable :P Feb 10 14:47:23 *diablo Feb 10 14:48:28 qwazix: debhelper 7 is in maemo-extras Feb 10 14:48:35 The sb is from harmattan, with fremantle target. Just did apt-get install debhelper and it installed 7.0.15 Feb 10 14:48:42 ok Feb 10 14:49:00 Hadn't done apt-get upgrade after adding extras :) Feb 10 14:49:05 qwazix: sb from harmattan?!? Feb 10 14:49:17 well, try it now Feb 10 14:49:39 btw do you have cssu-thumb and cssu-testing repos enabled? Feb 10 14:50:14 nah, same error. Yes I did the whole set up of thumb toolchain step by step and all went ok Feb 10 14:50:42 qwazix: did you do apt-get upgrade with extras-devel enabled by cjance? Feb 10 14:50:48 *chance Feb 10 14:50:57 I don't think so Feb 10 14:51:00 ok Feb 10 14:51:08 Let me check for sure Feb 10 14:52:45 qwazix: try "rm .gitignore; git clean -df; git reset --hard HEAD" Feb 10 14:52:54 and tell me on which commit is your head Feb 10 14:53:23 your error looks like data corruption Feb 10 14:54:53 no, no upgrade after devel Feb 10 14:55:04 qwazix: what is your zlib-bin and zlib1g versions? Feb 10 14:55:10 *are Feb 10 14:55:55 head is now at 9166c60 Correct thumb detection to debian/rules Feb 10 14:56:06 that's fine Feb 10 14:56:56 zlib-bin 1:1.2.7.dfsg-13maemo1+0cssy1+thumb0 Feb 10 14:57:04 zlib-bin 1:1.2.7.dfsg-13maemo1+0cssu1+thumb0 Feb 10 14:57:18 that's fine too Feb 10 14:57:38 I am out of ideas. But i'd still blame your SB Feb 10 14:57:50 zlib1g the same Feb 10 14:58:04 Ok I'll install the fremantle one from scratch Feb 10 14:58:16 qwazix: you'd better use vmware image Feb 10 14:58:26 afaik harm and fremantle SB cannot coexist Feb 10 14:58:34 I just read reports of people running both simultaneously so I thought it would work. Feb 10 14:58:46 I mean same sb two targets Feb 10 14:59:07 I think I'll install another OS in a partition, I hate VMWare Feb 10 14:59:26 well, up to you :) Feb 10 15:00:06 ok, I'll probably be busy with Migration later today, so probably tomorrow for embedlite Feb 10 15:00:13 thanks a lot for help Feb 10 15:00:41 np, hopefully today I'll finaly foind why clipping halves fps Feb 10 15:00:50 *find Feb 10 15:02:37 DocScrutinizer05, going to get some food, I'll be back in an hour or so to set up the plan Feb 10 15:11:12 qwazix: fine with me Feb 10 16:00:28 hi, i bricked my n900 (reboot loop, maybe some problem with new-installed version of Kernel-Power), so i need fiasco image, dont anybody know where to get it? :) thx.. Feb 10 16:01:04 Question: how can websited keep info about u, asfor example, your page views, etc.? I deleted cookies, cache, used socks4 proxy, still the website displays my pageviews as they were..? Feb 10 16:01:04 eWer: are you logged in? Feb 10 16:01:05 teotwaki, umn yess.. Feb 10 16:01:05 ... Feb 10 16:01:05 *facepalm* Feb 10 16:03:19 /join #el-lnx Ellen's Feb 10 16:04:02 /join #el-lnx ellnx Feb 10 16:18:07 phr3akDom: check skeiron mirror Feb 10 16:18:21 ~skeiron Feb 10 16:18:22 somebody said skeiron was the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Feb 10 16:47:29 hello Feb 10 16:57:40 hi Feb 10 17:11:35 hi SD69 Feb 10 17:12:21 hey Feb 10 17:12:31 sorry i'm on the run to get some breakfast. Any questions we can answer in one sentence? Feb 10 17:12:49 otherwise I'll be back in 2h or so Feb 10 17:12:55 do we have a hosting offer from Hetzner? Feb 10 17:13:11 nah, that's pretty commercial standard Feb 10 17:13:21 http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex10 Feb 10 17:13:32 DocScrutinizer05: not even some discount for charity? :( Feb 10 17:13:40 kerio: LOL Feb 10 17:14:06 they were recommended by mer Feb 10 17:14:10 kerio: actually I didn't even ponder to ask for any discount Feb 10 17:14:40 yes, Hetzner is probably recommended by any european or at least german sysop Feb 10 17:14:41 for Hetzner one can contact re-sellers if they can give a better offer Feb 10 17:14:55 ohnoes Feb 10 17:15:00 no resellers please Feb 10 17:15:02 however the last i checked with a few re-sellers for skeiron the direct pricing was much better Feb 10 17:15:10 SD69: we have two *free* possibilities Feb 10 17:15:37 indeed DocScrutinizer05 Hetzner's support for clients from re-sellers is pathetic Feb 10 17:16:22 ok, another 5min, til I smoke my cig Feb 10 17:16:26 :-) Feb 10 17:16:40 free is iphh and ? Feb 10 17:16:44 SD69: osuosl Feb 10 17:16:46 osuosl Feb 10 17:16:53 maybe Feb 10 17:16:58 not really Feb 10 17:17:24 kinda like "pay what you can" Feb 10 17:17:38 actually from my POV the IPHH offer is a no-brainer Feb 10 17:18:47 but anyway, qwazix will come up with a timesheet later, which I fill in and augment, and it will have our 3 true options Feb 10 17:19:12 probably this will already suggest we should go for IPHH Feb 10 17:19:28 DocScrutinizer05: a timesheet for the migration? Feb 10 17:19:46 since for osuosl we are way too late if we want to keep the 2013-03-01 deadline Feb 10 17:20:40 and IPHH conditions are at least as good as osuosl's Feb 10 17:20:45 nokia is slow with the contract Feb 10 17:20:52 :nod: Feb 10 17:21:04 Nokia is a PIT* Feb 10 17:21:36 I understand that paperwork takes time... but soooo much time? Feb 10 17:22:04 Nokia knew about that since a year now Feb 10 17:22:35 we are getting pushback on the encryption key Feb 10 17:22:45 DocScrutinizer05: a pain in the everything? Feb 10 17:22:46 they could've get their stuff sorted much earlier Feb 10 17:23:19 SD69: encryption key not really been expected to get handed out by them Feb 10 17:23:41 nobody ever hands out their encryption keys Feb 10 17:24:17 but aiui that's an issue for the SSU Nokia repos only Feb 10 17:24:24 we'll give them that, current issue is "all" software distribution tools Feb 10 17:24:34 :nod: Feb 10 17:24:52 tablets-dev.nolia.com is defunct Feb 10 17:25:00 nokia* Feb 10 17:25:45 we really would like to be able to create fiasco images and emmc images Feb 10 17:26:15 I think we should not count on Nokia keeping anything up that is maemo-related Feb 10 17:26:16 anyway, sorry have to run Feb 10 17:26:49 SD69: we got backups of almost everything, but obviously that's a lame substitute Feb 10 17:27:03 ok, cya Feb 10 17:27:09 later Feb 10 18:33:34 shipping UPS HEL->Ohio osuosl: 48h:1200EUR, 7days:640EUR (excl customs) Feb 10 18:34:01 I guess CoLo at osuosl is out Feb 10 18:35:59 This is roughly the same cost as shipping a microsd card HEL->Berlin with UPS ;-) Feb 10 18:39:34 yeah Feb 10 18:40:30 well, CoLo at osuosl never been on *my* list of clever things to ponder Feb 10 18:41:04 The screen on my n900 broke by accident. Now I need to get the contacts saved from it (preferable in a readable form). What would be the best way? The touch is working, even though I can not see what I am doing. Feb 10 18:41:33 engblom`: use AV cable and TV ;-) Feb 10 18:42:02 I am not sure I am having that cable... Feb 10 18:42:07 should work OOTB Feb 10 18:42:37 cable was included in the box Feb 10 18:44:07 for doing real botch, you probably could go for a normal stereo cable to 2*RCAA/CINCH, then plug in to 2nd click (stop ~2mm before plug sits flush) and connect left chan to TV AV-in, right chan to audio (or leafe it open) Feb 10 18:44:28 I have the usb computer cable... at least. I got my n900 from work when another worker quit (inherited it) Feb 10 18:44:56 yeah, most likely they deprived that cable from you Feb 10 18:45:13 it never comes with used devices Feb 10 18:46:15 Is there any program (preferable OSS, but in this emergency I will find a windows computer if that is needed) for getting the contacts out in plain text. Feb 10 18:46:30 I mean, through the USB cable. Feb 10 18:46:47 anyway, if you have *any* 3.5mm<->cinch cable, plug the left/only cinch to your TV AV-in, then insert 3.5mm on N900 until picture appears Feb 10 18:47:10 I am not having a tv at all.. Feb 10 18:47:14 engblom`: I dunno what NokiaSuite can do Feb 10 18:48:05 if you got sshd installed on N900, you probably have a chance other than Nokiasuite or TV. Otherwise not Feb 10 18:48:06 NOkia Suite can get contacts, messages etc but N900 has to be in PC suite mode for that Feb 10 18:48:21 MetalGearSolid: :nod: Feb 10 18:48:50 it would need clicking blindly on the right spot on screen at the right moment Feb 10 18:49:25 the buttons are large, so it should be feasible Feb 10 18:50:05 I think I would manage to do that. Feb 10 18:50:21 so it's nokiasuite then, for you Feb 10 18:50:32 Yep, that will be the solution, if it can get the contacts. Feb 10 18:51:19 please consider to either repair or sell the broken N900, anyway Feb 10 18:51:54 it would be a pity to discard it Feb 10 18:53:43 I am not sure I want to sell it as I will not be sure I get everything erased form it with screen broken. Feb 10 18:53:47 boot rescueos via flasher, type yyy, connect via usb networking, make full tarballs of everything, buy new n900, unpack tarballs Feb 10 18:53:50 oh, even better Feb 10 18:54:20 boot rescueos via flasher, type yyy, connect via usb networking, make full tarballs of everything, flash_eraseall the rootfs, write zeros over all the emmc Feb 10 18:55:45 those two things will make it highly unpractical to figure out anything you've ever stored Feb 10 18:56:51 no need to flasherase the rootfs, it holds no privacy data Feb 10 18:57:03 erasing eMMC should suffice Feb 10 18:57:14 can be done with broken screen Feb 10 18:57:32 just do full reflash Feb 10 18:57:43 DocScrutinizer05: doesn't zero the emmc Feb 10 18:57:50 for full reflash, no screen is needed Feb 10 18:58:13 kerio: meh, sure it does, it's at least supposed to Feb 10 18:58:18 Full reflashing is leaving all pictures there (at least each time I have tried, they were left) Feb 10 18:58:27 engblom: you need to flash VANILLA too Feb 10 18:58:29 o.O Feb 10 18:58:43 your full reflashing is quite half Feb 10 18:58:59 I did it, still it was left. I do not know what went wrong then. Feb 10 18:59:06 you didn't Feb 10 18:59:07 srsly Feb 10 18:59:28 I know each time I flashed, I pulled down two images, and I flashed in the order they said on the page., Feb 10 18:59:43 flashing COMBINED, VANILLA, COMBINED, reliably resets stuff to factory defaults Feb 10 19:00:16 hahahha, you probably forgot about your uSD, eh? Feb 10 19:00:38 "store pictures at: card" Feb 10 19:00:43 ...i did Feb 10 19:01:02 engblom: anyway, found the av cable? Feb 10 19:01:31 Just the usb cable... Feb 10 19:01:38 weird Feb 10 19:01:44 did you buy it used? Feb 10 19:01:44 why weird? Feb 10 19:01:54 he got it from his company Feb 10 19:01:59 see backscroll Feb 10 19:02:00 oic, i missed that Feb 10 19:02:02 Anyway, I think I will get the contacts with windows tomorrow at work. Feb 10 19:02:16 engblom: so is this your company's? Feb 10 19:02:53 sure, and when you're at it, remove your uSD, flash COMBINED and VANILLA (both can be done via NokiaSuite too, I heard) Feb 10 19:03:09 DocScrutinizer05: reflashing most definetely won't zero out the emmc Feb 10 19:03:15 it doesn't take nearly enough time Feb 10 19:03:46 kerio: bulk erasing eMMC is pretty fast Feb 10 19:04:08 Hmm, maybe it is possible to dd over eMMC? Feb 10 19:04:20 engblom: most definetely - you need terminal access though Feb 10 19:04:24 and rescueos Feb 10 19:04:26 yes, that's also possible Feb 10 19:06:15 engblom: hold on, can't you just sync your contacts right now? Feb 10 19:06:44 kerio: I need a windows computer for that... So I will do it tomorrow when I get to my work. Feb 10 19:06:53 * DocScrutinizer05 waves and vanishes Feb 10 19:06:54 ...you never synced your contacts? :O Feb 10 19:07:22 Nope. I never did a backup of my phone (not what I am recommending) Feb 10 19:07:45 ah crap, my phone doesn't boot Feb 10 19:07:46 :s Feb 10 19:10:32 yay Feb 10 19:10:46 apparently, noauto_da_alloc isn't understood by kernel-power's ext4 Feb 10 19:11:18 haha >> the german magazine c't run an article in a recent issue about ubuntu phone/sailfish/tizen and identified as common denominator that all three cater to providers rather than end users (though those are the ones paying ...) -- ie whatever _potential_ freedom exists with those platforms will most likely _realize_ to only a very small extend, since providers are not interested in freedom uf use but their revenue, meaning they Feb 10 19:11:19 will limit choices and lock the system.<< Feb 10 19:12:26 DocScrutinizer05: how would one bulk-erase the emmc? Feb 10 19:13:08 dd zeros over it Feb 10 19:13:17 how's that bulk? Feb 10 19:13:32 you can't Feb 10 19:13:42 ...maybe that's why i was getting 17MB/s when writing zeros Feb 10 19:14:58 DocScrutinizer05, same with android, "freedom and openess" for the carriers so they can lock it down Feb 10 19:18:41 hammer? Feb 10 19:18:46 xrays Feb 10 19:18:58 jacekowski: and leave it working Feb 10 19:19:05 xrays then Feb 10 19:19:15 jacekowski: won't that also damage the controller? Feb 10 19:19:28 it shouldn't Feb 10 19:26:49 anyway, i doubt that flasher uses xrays Feb 10 20:41:49 hi Feb 10 21:15:26 freemangordon: does extkbd work properly with qt applications? Feb 10 21:15:52 kerio: it should Feb 10 21:17:14 DocScrutinizer05, re "german magazine", that's why is really a pity that Nokia left the building. They were big enough to not have to be absolute carrier-slaves. Feb 10 21:17:23 my modified xkb layout doesn't work Feb 10 21:17:36 i have a feeling that qt does its own thing wrt keyboard input Feb 10 22:23:05 hello Feb 10 22:24:15 beep2, hello Feb 10 22:24:28 qwazix: ;) Feb 10 22:26:53 Is kismet package in extras-devel repos outdated ? Feb 10 22:44:16 it's ok thanks to skeiron.org Feb 10 22:44:19 ciao :) lol Feb 10 23:12:21 could any of you please check if you can access this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuQnrvWRbTtzdFhERzlDbEp0eVNQQTdfNWpQbzdIT0E&usp=sharing *without* logging in to google account first? Feb 10 23:13:28 asks for login Feb 10 23:13:42 dang Feb 10 23:14:03 google >:-( Feb 10 23:14:53 I can see it Feb 10 23:15:05 hmm works in chrome... Feb 10 23:15:11 maybe it was my ff settings Feb 10 23:15:23 ff18 here Feb 10 23:16:14 DocScrutinizer05: I am able to open it too, FF 12 Feb 10 23:18:27 yeah probably false alarm Feb 10 23:19:04 dang, already created an alternative: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/Maemo 2nd Migration Timesheet - Sheet1.pdf ;-P Feb 10 23:19:20 Feb 10 23:22:24 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/Maemo%202nd%20Migration%20Timesheet%20-%20Sheet1.pdf :) Feb 10 23:22:35 :-D hey! Feb 10 23:23:04 hi **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 11 02:59:58 2013