**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 17 02:59:57 2013 Feb 17 03:06:14 high ESR also can cause very fast end-of-charge so N900 wouldn't eat any more current from USB Feb 17 03:06:53 despite actual charge level of cell being pretty low and only sufficient for a few minutes maybe Feb 17 03:08:13 likewise high ESR will cause early shitdown during discharge, even when charge level of cell is not yet near 0% Feb 17 03:08:26 shutdown, but meh Feb 17 03:08:48 shit going down either way Feb 17 03:11:59 Status: 0x30 Mode: STANDBY Full: 0 Wall: 0 Voltage: 3569 NAC: 1911 level: 98 % Rate: -305 System: -1255 Ch: 950 Compensated: Feb 17 03:14:13 ShadowJK: ^^^ Feb 17 03:14:40 you stopped bme? Feb 17 03:15:03 fsck... wtf is going on with this... Feb 17 03:16:01 you first must `stop bme` before you start charge21.sh Feb 17 03:16:13 ah. Feb 17 03:17:06 if you wait for longer than 30s after stopping bme, you might see steady amber since bq24150 watchdog resets the chip Feb 17 03:18:04 this is basically the non-CPU mode, since bme==CPU for the bq Feb 17 03:18:59 Geez Feb 17 03:19:17 Is there any way to get dpkg-buildpackage on mameo? Feb 17 03:19:47 for some reason dpkg is stupid and doesn't realize that I have cross-compatible python scripts Feb 17 03:19:53 nah, building on N900 isn't recommended Feb 17 03:20:01 Well Feb 17 03:20:10 I'm not building per-se Feb 17 03:20:15 I'm more or less packaging Feb 17 03:20:44 check tools repo then Feb 17 03:20:54 might be there Feb 17 03:21:15 That first line that says "Charger" means that the USB is connected? And why would it still say Wall:0 ? Feb 17 03:22:00 wall:0 means "no D+- short detected" Feb 17 03:22:06 iirc Feb 17 03:23:01 no idea what first line you mean Feb 17 03:26:05 also iirc "Rate: -305 System: -1255 Ch: 950" means that those guestimate calculations think the charger chip delivers 950mA yet battery gets discharged by 305mA, resulting in system obviously eating 1255mA Feb 17 03:26:46 the 950 from charger chip are bogus, probably Feb 17 03:27:31 they are deduced from status and a few other parameters Feb 17 03:28:51 NAC and level are obviously from a severely decalibrated bq27200 Feb 17 03:32:02 Well this sucks. Feb 17 03:32:17 I recently broke up with my ex. Feb 17 03:32:26 There's a colleague I've been hanging out with. Feb 17 03:32:55 I've been having fun reading her body language, and pushing her when I detect half truths. Feb 17 03:33:18 Over the last week, every evening, we'd hang out after work, either at the office, or at her place. Feb 17 03:33:23 Well, last month. Feb 17 03:34:16 Turns out, while I've been pushing to get a stupid friends with benefits kinda thing, and she refused. Feb 17 03:34:38 She wasn't refusing because she's married (getting divorced), or because we're colleagues. Feb 17 03:35:01 But because she has way more feelings than she'd (or I) care for. Feb 17 03:35:16 :-\ Feb 17 03:35:43 That's the first time I'm the one stopping a friendship because of the feelings. Feb 17 03:35:48 Fuck me, I just friend-zoned a chick! Feb 17 03:37:27 okay Feb 17 03:37:38 4:30 AM Feb 17 03:37:41 Time to sleep Feb 17 03:37:48 Yeah, I'm going to leave the office as well Feb 17 03:37:55 4:30 is pretty ridiculous on a Sunday morning. Feb 17 03:38:14 yeah :P Feb 17 03:38:18 anyway gnite! Feb 17 03:39:49 wonder if my bq24150(is it?) or bq27200 or whatever chip it is in the n900 is fried... seems like it is really confused? Feb 17 03:41:09 it may well be the us. co. sector Feb 17 03:41:11 try bme with "bq27200.sh 5" Feb 17 03:41:23 charge21.sh can be confusing Feb 17 03:43:03 eccerr0r: though i'd not be surprised if you'd actually had fried the bq24150 with your "if I increase voltahe above 5V, it draws more current" experiments Feb 17 03:43:48 well if I hadn't been having problem with it to begin with... Feb 17 03:44:33 the bq24150 datasheet says vbus can take up to 10.5V indefinitely (but wont charge) and higher but not forever... Feb 17 04:04:15 hmm maybe I have to just live with sloooow charging... :( Feb 17 04:10:00 eccerr0r: yes, bq24150 is quite ruggedized Feb 17 04:10:22 not so the twl4030 that detects vbus Feb 17 04:10:37 and the 1707 PHY Feb 17 05:05:06 oh nice...found the service manuals... Feb 17 05:05:27 not that it would necessarily help but it has some interesting info on them... Feb 17 09:19:36 Hi. tablets-dev.nokia.com/ seems to be down – is that temporary or permanently? Are there alternative sources for the OS images? Feb 17 09:22:46 ~skeiron Feb 17 09:22:46 it has been said that skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Feb 17 09:23:20 thx Feb 17 09:24:12 What do you think – is there still a market for a N770 on ebay? Mine has been lying around in a drawer for a few years too many by now. Feb 17 09:32:27 eeh, idk Feb 17 09:32:40 i wouldn't buy it Feb 17 09:32:45 but maybe some collector... Feb 17 09:38:25 I guess its worth a try. Too nice a device to just throw it away Feb 17 10:00:21 nomeata: well, I recently bougt a maemo tablet off ebay; wanted to hack it into a music box (using my custom programs) Feb 17 10:00:55 nomeata: but it's a n800, not n770 Feb 17 10:01:22 and I only thought it viable because of the two sdhc slots Feb 17 10:01:48 paid 20 € (though, it was labelled as defect because of a broken linux install) Feb 17 10:02:29 I don't think you'll get much more than that for a n770 ... unless lucky, of course. Feb 17 10:02:36 still, its worth a try Feb 17 10:02:48 In any case better than throwing away! Feb 17 10:03:35 I might still try to sell my E90 to some affectinate person. I still miss the proper keyboard of the device, but the S60 OS sucks too much:-( Feb 17 10:07:47 there's an n770 on ebay us has 2 bids and 5 days to go. this would give you a indication of how much it's worth. Feb 17 10:11:32 sixwheeledbeast: that on what country? Feb 17 10:11:47 ebay US Feb 17 10:12:30 nomeata: also one BNIB for 149 bucks no bids Feb 17 10:35:14 sixwheeledbeast: holy crap, 150$ is how much you'd pay for a mint condition n900 Feb 17 10:35:39 kerio: hence no bids... Feb 17 10:37:57 http://bit.ly/XhHAac Feb 17 10:59:00 If you are in germany and want a n770: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111014036610 Feb 17 11:23:08 guys, need some QML help: How to change items DEFAULT background color, or "theme" color. Feb 17 11:23:34 Not sure if it is QML or general Qt though Feb 17 11:25:46 It seems no matter what I set (stuff like Qt::WA_NoSystemBackground and Qt::WA_OpaquePaintEvent), the underlying GTK widget still paints its background Feb 17 11:27:40 or at least when I change "DefaultBackgroundColor" in gtkrc, it affects what is painted as background. NFC if it is GTK or QDeclarativeSomething that paints it though :) Feb 17 11:29:39 setting autoFillBackground to false also does not work Feb 17 12:00:49 freemangordon http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-theme.html Feb 17 12:01:30 freemangordon what do you mean by "the underlying GTK widget"? Feb 17 12:01:38 trx: fremantle here ;) Feb 17 12:01:48 oh, right :) Feb 17 12:30:16 freemangordon, you're trying to get a transparent QDeclarativeItem? Feb 17 12:30:53 I tried a lot to do that but didn't find a way... Feb 17 12:30:55 qwazix: no, I am trying to change that color from black to something else, see #embedlite :) Feb 17 12:31:46 the only way I found so far is to change "DefaultBackgroundColor" in gtkrc :D Feb 17 12:32:32 qwazix: have in mind we talk about 5-8 fps for embedlite ;) Feb 17 12:33:04 freemangordon how do you show the gtk widget in QML? Feb 17 12:33:41 you draw its pixmap onto QDeclarativeItem? Feb 17 12:33:57 trx: I show nothing GTK, it is Qt that shows something Feb 17 12:34:21 with black background, which is overpainted by the stuff Feb 17 12:34:47 trx: BTW toplevel widget is QGLWidget Feb 17 12:35:12 freemangordon, ok, just let me read the backscroll Feb 17 12:35:24 ok Feb 17 12:36:46 trx: the sourcecode https://github.com/tmeshkova/qmlmozbrowser Feb 17 12:37:10 trx: again, it is QWS_MAEMO_5 Feb 17 12:37:14 :) Feb 17 12:37:23 i'll have a lool Feb 17 12:37:26 look Feb 17 12:37:31 i'll have a lol Feb 17 12:37:40 lol! Feb 17 12:37:45 ;)() Feb 17 12:37:48 damn Feb 17 12:37:54 not my day Feb 17 12:38:03 that's a ;) with a fat belly Feb 17 12:38:09 i guess so :) Feb 17 12:38:09 :D Feb 17 12:41:08 freemangordon, set a Qt stylesheet? Feb 17 12:41:28 MohammadAG: did that, but with no use :) Feb 17 12:41:42 stylesheets work only with QWidget afaik Feb 17 12:41:43 can you post a screenshot? Feb 17 12:41:51 QGLWidget is a QWidget Feb 17 12:42:11 black remains black, no matter app->setStylesheet("background-color:red;"); Feb 17 12:42:23 MohammadAG: screenshot of a black screen? Feb 17 12:42:52 MohammadAG: just turn your n900's screen off :P Feb 17 12:43:09 hmm, you're right, it IS black Feb 17 12:43:55 but I don't get what's black Feb 17 12:44:07 if it's in QML, gtk shouldn't have anything to do with the app Feb 17 12:44:54 for future reference, moz (pronounced like more with a z) means banana in arabic Feb 17 12:45:47 MohammadAG: I hve NFC who paints that in QLM, but it uses GTK background color Feb 17 12:45:52 *QML Feb 17 12:46:08 so it's a QML Item? Feb 17 12:46:18 yes Feb 17 12:46:42 but it's subclassed and all painting disabled Feb 17 12:46:45 Hi Feb 17 12:46:58 MohammadAG: it is either qdeclarativeview or qglwidget Feb 17 12:47:09 that paints that background Feb 17 12:49:15 MohammadAG: doiing app->setPallete(...) does not help either Feb 17 12:49:19 *doing Feb 17 12:50:24 I wonder if subclassing paintEvent would help Feb 17 12:50:34 s/subclassing/overriding Feb 17 12:51:50 and then drawing manualy? Feb 17 12:52:22 MohammadAG: which class' paint event? Feb 17 12:52:36 qglwidget? Feb 17 12:52:49 trx, no, just changing the brush colour I guess Feb 17 12:53:05 I'm not sure, that's why I said I wonder :P Feb 17 12:53:10 MohammadAG: that works, but it paints over the initial black Feb 17 12:53:15 :D Feb 17 12:53:25 which is not what I want Feb 17 12:53:26 but afaik QDeclarativeView inherits QGLWidget no? Feb 17 12:53:33 no Feb 17 12:53:47 no, QGrphicsView Feb 17 12:53:48 you set view widget Feb 17 12:53:49 freemangordon, then it's not QGLWidget painting the black :P Feb 17 12:54:38 MohammadAG: yes, most probably not. though qdeclarative view installs event filter on qglwidget, and maybe sets some glClearColor Feb 17 12:57:17 freemangordon maybe i dont understand you right, but when i had my painting always black, i change colorrole of the brush and all works fine Feb 17 12:57:26 this doesn't seem right: app->setStylesheet("background-color:red;"); Maybe widget->setStylesheet(" . . . ") where widget is your QDeclarativeItem Feb 17 12:58:17 sure, that works, but it paints the color OVER the black background, so initial black painting is still there Feb 17 12:58:36 raandoom: ^^^ Feb 17 12:58:53 so it results in scrolling fps drop Feb 17 12:59:07 from 40-45 to 35 Feb 17 12:59:14 as it is painted on every frame Feb 17 12:59:35 raandoom: maybe I don;t use the correct brush though Feb 17 13:04:13 qwazix: which is the top-level widget in an QML app? Feb 17 13:04:26 *a Feb 17 13:04:33 QDeclarativeView Feb 17 13:05:15 freemangordon try painting on QDeclarativeView and not GLWidget Feb 17 13:05:32 also, have you experimented with QGraphicsItem::ItemCoordinateCache? Feb 17 13:05:55 It doesn't *have* to be. You can perfectly use a QDeclarativeView just like any other widget. Feb 17 13:06:04 it lowered fps in my app Feb 17 13:06:13 (I.e. mixed qtwidget and qml) Feb 17 13:06:21 trx: the painting is not in qglwidget, qglwidget is just the viewport Feb 17 13:06:31 (or whatever it is called) Feb 17 13:12:51 watching the chealsea game and i don't even watch soccer Feb 17 13:14:17 chelsea just scored Feb 17 13:17:29 soccer? why not football? :) Feb 17 13:23:49 * sobukus wonders why he seemed to access ALSA output some time ago and not anymore, only via esd Feb 17 13:24:30 Is there a trick on OS2008 to access audio output via ALSA? I read that the theremin application does that for low latency. Feb 17 13:25:50 Needless to day, the theremin does not work for me ... which might mean I broke something with my setup? Feb 17 13:26:07 Can I increase the font size for the address book? I can barely read things i.e. when I'm walking. So only increasing the size of the phone numbers would be in my interest. Feb 17 13:26:19 qwazix, MohammadAG: Feb 17 13:26:22 QPalette pal; Feb 17 13:26:25 pal.setColor(view->backgroundRole(),QColor(Qt::blue)); Feb 17 13:26:28 view->setPalette(pal); Feb 17 13:26:31 :D:D:D Feb 17 13:27:08 yay! Feb 17 13:27:34 qwazix: so, we are ready to go Feb 17 13:28:16 qube renders with 40 fps, background is blue :) Feb 17 13:28:25 I'm setting right now fremantle sbox from scratch, I should be good to go in a while too Feb 17 13:28:26 *cube Feb 17 13:29:04 nice, i'm going to try to change that in runtime, depending on the page background color Feb 17 13:29:42 And what if the page has an image as background? Feb 17 13:30:01 no idea :D Feb 17 13:30:15 oh, wait, gecko wil render it Feb 17 13:30:38 this is the color that will be shown while the contents is still not rendered Feb 17 13:31:06 raandoom: real football is over :-P Feb 17 13:31:20 we call EU football soccer in the US Feb 17 13:31:28 just like we use imperial measurements Feb 17 13:31:29 heh Feb 17 13:31:37 chelsea is up 2-0 now Feb 17 13:31:48 freemangordon, so why not just paint it gray? Feb 17 13:32:04 why not :D Feb 17 13:32:13 It doesn't have to imitate the page background Feb 17 13:32:33 qwazix: i'll do it smart, count on me Feb 17 13:33:38 Macer i thought that 'soccer' is not popular in US :) Feb 17 13:34:02 I've no doubt :) Feb 17 13:35:48 * sobukus suspects it's libasound2-1.0.14 instead of stock 1.0.10 Feb 17 13:36:42 it isn't Feb 17 13:36:46 there's nothing else on ;) Feb 17 13:37:34 all of our major sports are in an off time... football is over, basketball is having its all star game today, and baseball is in the off season Feb 17 13:37:43 hockey doesn't count as a major sport ;) Feb 17 13:43:22 freemangordon, I used that once, forgot the reason why, I guess that's why I didn't mention it :P Feb 17 13:45:43 should not QAudioDeviceInfo::availableDevices(QAudio::AudioInput).size() always return >0 ? Feb 17 13:50:24 Macer: you can't call that football "real" football :P Feb 17 13:51:48 heh Feb 17 13:52:03 well.. we are arrogant americans Feb 17 13:52:10 we will call our football whatever we want lol Feb 17 14:02:18 yer and everyone else calls it american football :) Feb 17 14:03:19 imperial football Feb 17 14:04:00 though that's not even an empire thing Feb 17 14:04:22 standard football vs imperial football :) Feb 17 14:04:44 metric football surely Feb 17 14:04:55 :) Feb 17 14:05:19 metric = standard Feb 17 14:05:20 SI football? Feb 17 14:05:53 hmm, how does score conversion work? Feb 17 14:06:19 13.5 to 1 metric goal Feb 17 14:06:32 * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks a little since kmail1.9.10 is *totally* fubar Feb 17 14:07:10 alas kmail2 is also fubar Feb 17 14:07:40 honestly who wants MySQL instead of maildir Feb 17 14:08:38 mysql on a phone? Feb 17 14:09:01 DocScrutinizer05: stop using kde, for crying out loud Feb 17 14:09:30 you keep complaining about everything, it's clearly not a DE you like Feb 17 14:09:30 KDE is great Feb 17 14:09:35 no, I like the integration into addressbook and whatnot else Feb 17 14:09:42 jacekowski: is not Feb 17 14:09:46 yes it is Feb 17 14:10:34 and until "recently" kmail did a very nice job for me Feb 17 14:10:54 kde4 however fubared everything Feb 17 14:12:04 incl the kde3-kmail available Feb 17 14:13:09 on my 3 year old "old" system I had a way more recent kmail1.9.xx version than available now on this "new" system Feb 17 14:22:32 lol Feb 17 14:22:53 metric football lol Feb 17 14:23:43 kde uses mysql for mail? Feb 17 15:24:47 kernel timers again: I presume that frequency would have some infulence on granulity of timers. Does it? Feb 17 15:50:48 WizardNumberNext: you are talking about kernel hz? i.e. 200? Feb 17 15:51:22 WizardNumberNext: yes Feb 17 15:51:25 no, about biggest kernel timers resolution available Feb 17 15:51:32 WizardNumberNext: unless you use hardware timers Feb 17 15:51:35 it was said 50ms Feb 17 15:52:21 with default kernel on n900 i experienced 50ms timer res. so I think the kernel hast 200HZ set Feb 17 15:52:22 so assume it would be 50ms for 500MHz. Would it be it say around 30-35ms for 850MHz? Feb 17 15:52:28 s/hast/has/ Feb 17 15:52:29 topro_ meant: with default kernel on n900 i experienced 50ms timer res. so I think the kernel has 200HZ set Feb 17 15:52:33 WizardNumberNext: not at all Feb 17 15:53:03 topro: iirc it is CONFIG_HZ=100 or 128 Feb 17 15:53:34 CONFIG_HZ=200 would produce 5ms, not 50ms Feb 17 15:53:39 hmm, but that would not match my observation that i.e. gettimeofday returns values as multiple of 50ms Feb 17 15:53:57 topro - that is what I am talking about Feb 17 15:54:14 because gettimeofday would have to rely on relatively standard features provided by the system. Feb 17 15:54:15 afaik this is not highres timer Feb 17 15:54:26 exactly that one, but do you think frequency would have any impact on it? Feb 17 15:54:26 teotwaki: :nod: Feb 17 15:54:34 WizardNumberNext: no way Feb 17 15:54:40 Doesn't mean that gtod is the way to get access to the high resolution timers. Feb 17 15:55:13 is there a high res timer with n900 default maemo kernel? Feb 17 15:55:25 freemangordon: explain. I do not understand why it won't have impact. What is reason? Feb 17 15:56:12 WizardNumberNext: because core clock is not used for that purpose afaik Feb 17 15:56:21 WizardNumberNext: I'm assuming the code is something along the lines of ticks = CPU_FREQ / 50000; which means you get x ticks before the counter is incremented. Also, this may be handled through the cpu governor. Feb 17 15:56:51 topro: check what gstreamer uses Feb 17 15:56:59 or PA, or something Feb 17 15:57:20 ok, i'll see Feb 17 15:57:50 freemangordon, then either 32kHz or clock for almost every external to SoC HW would be the refence? Feb 17 15:58:05 I guess so Feb 17 15:58:28 I think that would oly thing which would make sense Feb 17 15:59:03 iirc there are a couple of external clock sources Feb 17 15:59:13 qhich one is used IDK Feb 17 15:59:16 *which Feb 17 15:59:18 asking on #opensuse-kde for a user who built kdepim with kmail1.>9.x for suse12.1 -- duuuude are those suse kde devels a bunch of blockheads Feb 17 15:59:31 can I read kernel CONFIG_HZ used to compile kernel from running kernel, i.e. /proc or /sys? Feb 17 16:00:34 topro, yes but I think you have to load some module Feb 17 16:00:38 don't remeber name Feb 17 16:00:46 configs I pressume Feb 17 16:01:03 sth like this Feb 17 16:01:28 it would appear as /proc/configs.gz afair Feb 17 16:06:03 it would be /proc/config.gz, but I can't find any module to load which would provide it Feb 17 16:06:37 configs Feb 17 16:06:41 I just did it Feb 17 16:07:17 2.6.28-omap1 running here, no mudule named configs.ko Feb 17 16:07:28 module Feb 17 16:07:31 CONFIG_OMAP_32K_TIMER_HZ=128 Feb 17 16:08:32 there was some other way to get config in case of lack of config in boot and proc, but I cannot seem to remember Feb 17 16:10:52 CONFIG_TICK_ONESHOT=y Feb 17 16:10:53 CONFIG_NO_HZ=y Feb 17 16:10:55 CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y Feb 17 16:10:56 CONFIG_GENERIC_CLOCKEVENTS_BUILD=y Feb 17 16:11:16 CONFIG_HZ=128 Feb 17 16:11:31 this is from kp51 Feb 17 16:11:36 so could it be that high-res timer has 50ms? Feb 17 16:11:53 who knows, that could be axplaination Feb 17 16:11:55 no, that makes no sens Feb 17 16:12:03 but then this not really hrt Feb 17 16:12:14 as highres would be worse than kernel-hz Feb 17 16:12:42 because because 128Hz is 7.8ms per cycle Feb 17 16:14:12 you should be able to see resolution of timers in proc somewhere Feb 17 16:16:12 hrt is reported to have resolution of 91553ns, if I get decription right Feb 17 16:17:21 how are you testing timer res? Feb 17 16:17:56 I am not, kernel reports that in /proc/timer_list Feb 17 16:20:13 what a pain is to install maemo sdk without the installers... Feb 17 16:20:37 qwazix: just use vmware image Feb 17 16:21:17 .resolution: 1 nsecs Feb 17 16:21:18 .get_time: ktime_get_real Feb 17 16:21:37 for cpu Feb 17 16:21:41 .resolution: 1 nsecs Feb 17 16:21:43 .get_time: ktime_get Feb 17 16:21:53 see end of file Feb 17 16:22:43 Clock Event Device: gp timer Feb 17 16:22:45 max_delta_ns: 131072454787401 Feb 17 16:22:45 maybe gtod takes enough context to make it always 50ms? Feb 17 16:22:46 min_delta_ns: 91553 Feb 17 16:22:57 welcome to the club - same here Feb 17 16:23:03 this is GeneralPurpose Feb 17 16:23:37 but it is used as interrupt for hrt Feb 17 16:23:58 I have no idea if 3430 have hrt by itself Feb 17 16:24:30 sure, why not Feb 17 16:24:37 anyway: event_handler: hrtimer_interrupt Feb 17 16:24:37 linux are providing drivers for devices, which are created by SW Feb 17 16:25:11 but on the other side there is no other timer which have anything to do with hrt Feb 17 16:25:41 I wonder why this timer topic comes up reliably every other day Feb 17 16:26:03 where on both amd64 mb I have 3 hrt (each) and I can see them in /proc/timer_list Feb 17 16:26:27 I am just curious Feb 17 16:26:54 I like to know abilities and limitation of HW I use Feb 17 16:30:12 sorry 3 hpet on each MB and 1 hrt on each cpu core Feb 17 17:09:40 DocScrutinizer05: because it's unresolved Feb 17 17:09:49 and i, for one, welcome our new timer overlords Feb 17 17:30:34 kerio: what's unresolved? Feb 17 17:30:42 the timing thing, or something Feb 17 17:30:45 or was unresolved Feb 17 17:30:55 rather "or something" Feb 17 17:31:41 it wasn't unresolved, it was a missing link to the right howto, if anything Feb 17 17:32:32 missing as in "I never bothered so I wasn't able to help" Feb 17 18:08:48 \o/ kpim4.4 with kmail1.13, NO akonadi crap! FINALLY Feb 17 18:09:51 :-) Feb 17 18:10:19 hail and kudos to pheinlein Feb 17 18:14:39 https://build.opensuse.org/package/binary?arch=x86_64&filename=kdepim4-4.4.10-8.149.x86_64.rpm&package=kdepim4&project=home%3Apheinlein&repository=openSUSE_Factory Feb 17 18:18:29 still has requirements of akonadi, but it seems the kmail part is not particularly feckered up by it Feb 17 18:19:21 probably just for allowing this kerry-beagle stuff Feb 17 18:28:16 [personal notice] Good luck Ivan! Thanks for all the help in council and board! please visit as often as you can, we'll miss you badly Feb 17 18:29:07 agreed, just been reading that. Feb 17 18:30:16 DocScrutinizer05: what happened? Feb 17 18:30:33 Ivan steps down from council and board Feb 17 18:30:52 "There's still a lot to do but I have absolute confidence in current Council and Board." Feb 17 18:30:53 which is... a disaster - for us Feb 17 18:30:54 thx Ivan. Feb 17 18:31:00 DocScrutinizer05: indeed Feb 17 18:31:50 Another big thank you from me Feb 17 18:32:35 what an unpredictable event, I've never seen that coming. BTW, the problem about administration "hiring" was solved? Feb 17 18:33:01 Estel_: sidestepped, for now Feb 17 18:33:29 there is no administrators in maemo Feb 17 18:33:31 link? Feb 17 18:33:51 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1323480&postcount=1 Feb 17 18:33:56 ta Feb 17 18:33:56 teotwaki: I tried to find 2013 in pipermal, but it seems borked Feb 17 18:33:59 how's the OSUOSL thing working out? Feb 17 18:34:00 isn't falk a sysadmin? Feb 17 18:34:13 jacekowski: in all likelyhood, we'll use the free hosting from iphh Feb 17 18:34:23 kerio: falk is sysop Feb 17 18:34:56 what's the difference? :o Feb 17 18:35:13 jacekowski: warfare lives ~10 minutes away from the iphh datacenter Feb 17 18:35:20 merlin1991, woody, chem|st all are maintainers Feb 17 18:35:33 administrator is ambiguous Feb 17 18:36:30 http://privatepaste.com/95d3ac5a8a Feb 17 18:40:31 I the heck should CC maemo-community ML on all those mails Feb 17 18:41:09 absolutely no reason to do that stuff begind the scenes Feb 17 18:41:21 behind, even Feb 17 18:44:03 DocScrutinizer05: well finally one of you has grown a brain. Feb 17 18:44:16 The amount of secrecy Maemo has been plagued with is ridiculous. Feb 17 18:44:28 I've always said I never understood the private lists and such. Feb 17 18:45:00 teotwaki: lawyers Feb 17 18:45:18 I can understand there's a private forum for the moderators on tmo Feb 17 18:45:31 because it is useful to have a place to discuss "I did this to this user, because he said this." Feb 17 18:45:43 Because people aren't online at the same time, and actions aren't exactly transparent. Feb 17 18:52:01 same applies to sysops Feb 17 18:52:19 we have 2 irc channels for that Feb 17 18:54:35 there are even *some* things like early notice from ivan to council and board about him stepping down that for good (or at least understandable) reasons are not public Feb 17 18:55:31 but stuff like http://privatepaste.com/95d3ac5a8a probably better gets discussed on a public forum tazher that a closed ML Feb 17 18:55:44 rather* Feb 17 18:56:05 i think there is too much "paperwork" now Feb 17 18:56:18 indeed Feb 17 18:56:37 that's why the tech staff does virtually all on IRC Feb 17 18:58:04 we don't need persistent documentation for everyday business, we need short RTT Feb 17 18:59:02 since our "protocol" is highly interactive Feb 17 18:59:31 sending a mail is almost an insult ;-) Feb 17 18:59:36 small question, as I'm sure someone did it already - I've switched to another GSM plan with limited minutes, as I use VoIP, most of the times. I would like to use my minutes from GSM plan, then, after that, call using voip only. I'm thinking about some semi-automatic solution, that would warn me when certain ammount of outgoing minutes have been spent (*not* including voip talking), or even without warning, just allowing me to check it wi Feb 17 18:59:37 thout logging into my mobile provider EULA Feb 17 18:59:46 anyone know such solution for N900? Feb 17 18:59:59 of course for VoIP I use N900's native solution Feb 17 19:00:04 thanks in advance Feb 17 19:00:32 mompls Feb 17 19:01:43 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1050432#post1050432 Feb 17 19:03:08 will NOT cut an established call just because your free minutes expired during it Feb 17 19:04:06 calculation always done at end of call - you're free tp tweak the algorithm to switch when less than N free minures left over Feb 17 19:04:22 s/tp/to/ Feb 17 19:04:22 DocScrutinizer05 meant: calculation always done at end of call - you're free to tweak the algorithm to switch when less than N free minures left over Feb 17 19:05:10 ... Feb 17 19:05:24 am i online? Feb 17 19:05:47 ~botsnack Feb 17 19:05:47 aw, gee, DocScrutinizer05 Feb 17 19:06:01 well, i attribute it to manners then Feb 17 19:07:25 DocScrutinizer05: passive aggressive much? Feb 17 19:08:49 nah, you consider expecting a thank-you agressive? Feb 17 19:09:13 nah, but IRC is an async medium Feb 17 20:06:24 DocScrutinizer05, thanks you. Ever considered, that people use bouncers and may be AFK at the moment? :) Feb 17 20:08:40 You know, real life, kids, wife(s), the things that people tend to have in real life, which happens to people that are *not*incolved in maemo's politics Feb 17 20:09:01 jokes aside, reading it Feb 17 20:09:04 ~ping Feb 17 20:09:05 ~pong Feb 17 20:11:04 s/u c/ur c/ Feb 17 20:17:40 You have been kicked from #maemo by teotwaki (fuck off you douche. Really nice touch to insult everyone in the channel, and then call "humour" to try and defend you case. Fuckface.) Feb 17 20:17:45 "passive agression" :P Feb 17 20:18:03 Well Feb 17 20:18:07 I have to admit Feb 17 20:18:12 No passivity there :) Feb 17 20:18:42 why do you have to do this Feb 17 20:19:06 cmon, got a sense of humour. I'm sure not even DocScrutinizer05 was offended by that one, he jokes about no real life himself ;) keep your cool and calm down. Feb 17 20:20:52 I'm not sure what's supposed to be funny. I don't see anything funny or offensive or insulting until suddenly people are accusing people of being insulting and then people getting kicked Feb 17 20:21:03 could someone please explain what's going on? Feb 17 20:21:21 ShadowJK: backscroll Feb 17 20:21:37 kerio; still not understanding or seeing Feb 17 20:22:38 ShadowJK, if we're talking serious for a moment, I'm so used to it in Maemo's reality for ~two years, that I totally stopped carrying, and got amused by teotwaki's rage outburst. Same for tmo and chemist - I think we must acknowledge that this is how maemo"community" look those days Feb 17 20:23:33 I do vaguely recall random rage outbursts before and then also had no clue what it was about. Feb 17 20:24:20 And at those times when I asked for explanation, people got angrier and angrier, and refused to explain why :) Feb 17 20:24:43 ShadowJK: Estel_ is a troll, who thinks he has a special bond with DocScrutinizer05 because they're both German. Somehow, in his deluded mind, the ops of #maemo have turned on him, while he was on the council. He was trying to get control over opdom in #maemo, and we kinda told him to fuck off. Feb 17 20:25:02 teotwaki: Estel_ is not german Feb 17 20:25:11 oh, my bad then. Feb 17 20:25:15 tried to change that for a while, but decided, that I have better things to do, so either turn it into joke and keep doing own things without giving a f**k about this, or go away and screw thisd place, I decided to do 1st Feb 17 20:25:46 teotwaki; does it matter at all whether he thinks the ops have turned on him or not Feb 17 20:26:19 Ever since, he's been calling us "operators gone rogue", because we wouldn't submit to his tantrums. #maemo has never been *under* the so called control of maemo.org. He abused his IRC cloak by keeping it to council long after his time on the council expired. Feb 17 20:26:27 ShadowJK, if you're really interested, teotwaki felt "offended" by my two lines before kick occured, and decided, that he is entitled to abuse chanop again ;) Feb 17 20:26:41 teotwaki, pack of bullshit Feb 17 20:26:45 I never used irc cloak myself Feb 17 20:26:53 someone else appointed it and took it away Feb 17 20:26:59 Right. Feb 17 20:27:14 teotwaki; i don't know who is op or not, who is council or not, and who is cabal or not, who is nokia or not, ms or not, and should it matter at all? Feb 17 20:28:03 for me, you're just childlish funny guy which just "happen" to have chanop, and tend to abuse it from time to time - nothing personal. You're just pathetic in your outrage burst, and it seem that even most calm and neutral people like ShadowJK are getting upset about it Feb 17 20:28:04 Two lines before? ping/pong? or your connectivity issues to your bouncer? or your wife/kids distracting you? huh. Feb 17 20:28:16 not my buisness - just think about how pathetic you've become, pal. Feb 17 20:28:24 wife/kids distracting, probably Feb 17 20:28:51 ShadowJK: nope, I just know that doc's been having a rough time, and for some reason, Estel_ does get to him on occasion. I think it's my role to remove trolls, people who try to get to people, on purpose. Feb 17 20:28:55 well, everything is good reason to kick somebody, ifyou don't like him personally Feb 17 20:29:12 actually, you're the only person I've kicked in the past year, so yeah, probably :) Feb 17 20:29:17 Well I'd like to submit to the secret chanops, policy change to in the future not kick people that get distracted by family members :) Feb 17 20:29:46 :) Feb 17 20:30:05 I didn't ban him, I didn't disrupt an active conversation. I just reminded Estel_ of where the limits are. Could I have done it differently? Possibly. Feb 17 20:30:34 Although, if toddlers crawl over someone's keyboard, I guess kicking would be acceptable Feb 17 20:30:41 same for cats and dogs too Feb 17 20:30:46 I get distracted by real life again, so feel free to kick *waves* Feb 17 20:32:52 sorry.... maybe i have missed something, but please explain me one thing. Which is the purpose that make people stay logged here? Feb 17 20:33:52 Some keep maemo alive and want to support users or ask for help. Others troll. Feb 17 20:34:00 the purpose to make people stay logged? You mean channel logging? Feb 17 20:34:49 or are you asking what's the purpose to be in this channel? Feb 17 20:34:49 ShadowJK: logged on inside #maemo channel Feb 17 20:36:08 It's kinda strange anyway, estel has never appeared like a troll to me Feb 17 20:36:53 ShadowJK: well, then you missed some really funny days during last year Feb 17 20:38:19 anyway, I think nothing really happened, and nobody got anything to discuss. A kick is nothing more than somebody clapping hands in the forest, if you have autojoin odds are you don't even notice it. Move on everybody, nothing to see here Feb 17 20:40:01 bursts of random ragekicks like these make me feel sick and makes me want to close xchat every time they happen Feb 17 20:40:06 Estel_: I am aware IRC is no realtime medium, but usually it's good practice when you ask something you wait at least 60s for an answer, since maybe others hurry to help you and it's disappointing when you do that for the bin Feb 17 20:41:07 there's well known TLAs for that, like Feb 17 20:41:10 afk Feb 17 20:41:23 bbl Feb 17 20:48:28 meh, according to my own rationale of some time ago, seconded by teotwaki, here's a copy to let you know about last news with server migration: http://privatepaste.com/fd824b1041 Feb 17 21:04:48 DocScrutinizer05, sure, I always *try* to stay for a while when asking about something - still, sometimes, things in RL demand immediate attention. Anyway, it's just thing of "people mean well", I suppose. While I agree nothing happened, I'm also a little saddended, that kicks etc become "clapping in the arm", especially, that as teotwaki said, he haven't used it on anyone else for years. Looks like personal to me (or personal problems a Feb 17 21:04:48 t his side ;) ), which I wouldn't like to see on #maemo moderators. Well, it seems that "we" are no longer such respectful community, and here I agree totally with ShadowJK. Well, as good old stones used to sing, "you can't always get what you want" Feb 17 21:06:05 ShadowJK, btw, acussing others of being "trolls" become kind of "trendy" in maemo community. You don't agree with someone, or don't like him, he is "troll" Feb 17 21:06:29 gurus of one camp are trolls of another, and you have 2-3 such camps in maemo nowadays. Sad times. Feb 17 21:06:36 no longer respectful? Feb 17 21:06:44 back on track- I checked scripts, and they're great Feb 17 21:06:51 i don't think it was ever respectful Feb 17 21:06:56 I just wonder, if there is a chance to count mms's on N900, somehow Feb 17 21:07:06 at least not in past 3-4 years i've been visiting this channel Feb 17 21:07:27 I would gladly upgrade those scripts, as on many countries, 1 mms = 1 sms = 1 monute Feb 17 21:07:35 s/monute/minute/ Feb 17 21:07:35 Estel_ meant: I would gladly upgrade those scripts, as on many countries, 1 mms = 1 sms = 1 minute Feb 17 21:08:20 and in 1 mms one can put more text than in tens of sms'es Feb 17 21:09:55 sending mms require connecting to "special", custom access point Feb 17 21:10:01 (GSM one) Feb 17 21:10:22 counting such connections could be a way to count mms'es Feb 17 21:10:25 any ideas? Feb 17 21:11:00 (but connection is also made when mms is received, which is free) Feb 17 21:12:06 I was wanting AT&T to charge 1 minute for an SMS... Feb 17 21:15:48 well, in poland, it is 3 sms for minute. Or 2, don't remember. Feb 17 21:16:03 you need a hook into fmms for that Feb 17 21:16:05 that's VERY fair I wish that were the case everywhere Feb 17 21:16:16 stupid AT&T rips us off on SMS Feb 17 21:16:26 nothing else will probably count mms and distinguish between in and out Feb 17 21:16:36 or probably "smart" ... they're making a killing Feb 17 21:17:53 * ShadowJK hasn't tried fmms yet :) Feb 17 21:18:10 I haven't installed the mms extension onto my n900, what happens if someone sends me a mms? Feb 17 21:18:26 nothing Feb 17 21:18:32 ffms wasn't updated for ages, I wonder how source code looks Feb 17 21:18:34 no notification or anything? Feb 17 21:18:48 eccerr0r, if you have fmms installed, you just receive it Feb 17 21:18:51 like sms or mail Feb 17 21:19:16 N900 connects to mmc access point of your provider, witnout disrupting your current connections (so called "havoc" mode) Feb 17 21:19:26 same when you send one Feb 17 21:19:41 I do not have fmms installed. I just notice when I use the email to sms gateway, if I send an email too long I get an mms instead Feb 17 21:19:58 it's half-integrated to addressbook too, (you can send to contacts from addressbook, and they're named using data from addressbook too) Feb 17 21:20:22 no clue about email to sms gateways Feb 17 21:20:35 but without fmms you won't rexeive mms on N900 at all Feb 17 21:20:55 BTW I would love if someone would fix splitting sms'es on N900 Feb 17 21:21:21 when you use special chars, it automagically senda them using less optimized symbols table Feb 17 21:21:51 so using single special, common character, you get 3x more sms'es send that it would be necessary Feb 17 21:22:38 it just uses method of "if any special character, send sms using biggest codebase" Feb 17 21:22:53 s/codebase/coding table/ Feb 17 21:22:53 Estel_ meant: it just uses method of "if any special character, send sms using biggest coding table" Feb 17 21:23:23 if your device isn't registered at your carrier as mms-enabled, then you usually receive a SMS with a URL where you can download the MMs content Feb 17 21:24:11 Estel_: that's how SMS are specified Feb 17 21:25:46 joining split SMS is not a standard nevertheless afaik, so all you could do is find out what's the set of methods to split that you want to support Feb 17 21:25:49 ah... Ok, I was hoping it would work that way,getting an sms that had a link to the mms content... but I should just install fmms Feb 17 21:51:09 there is problem with so-called wap-push sms'es on N900 though Feb 17 21:51:37 at least, in whatever provider's service sms with link to downl.oad something, it never worked for me Feb 17 21:51:45 only plain sms'es with url as text Feb 17 21:52:30 I'm not sure if every carrier use same method for non-mms-compliant devices? or some use wap-push, which is supported by 99% of devices? Feb 17 21:52:53 btw I wonder how mms achieve N900 registering as mms-compliant... Feb 17 22:19:24 on O2 you select the type of phone you have, they deduce from that Feb 17 22:20:10 usually do that on your web-interface to your "account" Feb 17 22:20:31 you also fetch MMS there Feb 17 22:20:49 when you get that SMS with link Feb 17 22:21:58 since obviously you can't download via your phone's GPRS and when you use your PC and arbitrary internet connection you need some authentication Feb 17 22:28:21 hi, I noticed the "repos down" notification seems to have disappeared from TMO. Are the repos actually back up? If so, do the mirrors still work? Feb 17 22:28:40 cool fmms worked on receive... Feb 17 22:31:36 extras-devel still seems to have hash problems... fmms 1.3.3 pulled fine, 1.3.4 from devel puked Feb 17 22:35:56 Estel_: try sending a blank mms to yourself Feb 17 22:36:12 my provider thinks n900 is a non-mms phone too Feb 17 22:36:40 had to send an empty mms to myself, after that, mms works Feb 17 22:37:37 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88659&highlight=repositories the last update here, very short seems to say the repos are back up, but not stable Feb 17 22:39:10 bennypr0fane: repo.m.o is working since several days. and yes, the mirrors are still up Feb 17 22:40:43 Cool. Is it correct that the mirrors are on status of december? so any updates made to apps since then are not in the mirrors? Feb 17 22:42:33 also, should we stick to the mirrors until repo.m.o are perfectly fine, or is it ok to go back to repo.m.o? Feb 17 22:48:51 there been no updates to anything since this year, basically Feb 17 22:49:37 as long as you don't run into hashsum error, r.m.o is perfectly fine to use Feb 17 22:50:40 thanks for reminding me of "final update" Feb 17 23:18:28 I'm going to have to side with jacekowski on this one. This channel has never been respectful, and it's definitely never been immune to abusive operators. Estel_, it sounds to me like you want this channel to be an echo of the love and peace we see on tmo and the MLs... Oh wait, there was never any love nor peace on either of those either!?! Feb 17 23:20:15 But you know, who the fuck cares. I said I didn't want to be an op because I'd be abusive, but I was given op status anyway. If anyone wants to take it away, feel free. It's not like this channel actually needs ops anyway. It's dead. The community it fought for is dead. The product it fought for is dead. The company it fought for is dead. Feb 17 23:22:03 But yeah, when I hear some geezer who's thrown so much shit at my and Doc's face in PMs and in public, even though I did really try to understand this guy, say that we're just a bunch of losers because we don't understand the concept of family matters? Well, piss off. Feb 17 23:23:00 Next thing we know, he's going say things like we should be thrown in jail because we didn't fight for our countries, again. Feb 17 23:23:35 few years back Feb 17 23:23:51 only reason why i wanted an op status on any channel was just so i could be abusive to others Feb 17 23:24:17 now i can be abusive to others in real life and i don't give about op status on IRC Feb 17 23:25:39 jacekowski: we've had our differences, especially back in the day with lcuk. You pretty much thought I was an arrogant twat who was a poser on the liqbase project, I thought you had asperger's and needed to get laid. Was I ever abusive to you, and did I ever abuse my op powers against you? I don't think I ever truly was, but maybe Estel_'s right, and I do have a problem and suppress the parts of my behaviour I don't like. Feb 17 23:26:10 (well, I know I was abusive to you when we chatted, but don't think I overreached on the banhammer) Feb 17 23:26:37 to be honest, i think banhammer should have been used on this channel more often Feb 17 23:28:51 but well, yeah, the community is pretty much dead, and maemo community has been well known to scare people off Feb 17 23:28:59 esspecialy people that contributed the most Feb 17 23:29:43 i'm surprised that there are still people that care about the servers and whole thing Feb 17 23:30:09 if it were up to me i would just type shutdown -h now and left it at that Feb 17 23:33:54 even if you take a look at https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/?C=M;O=A Feb 17 23:33:56 builder logs Feb 17 23:34:09 you can see how little activity there is compared to year beafore Feb 17 23:34:11 before* Feb 17 23:35:13 jacekowski: because the builder is broken :) Feb 17 23:35:24 since November Feb 17 23:35:41 then compare october Feb 17 23:36:02 till December it was at least possible to scp packages Feb 17 23:36:11 but then it broke down completely Feb 17 23:36:26 there is 5x as many builds in 2011 oct as in 2012 oct Feb 17 23:36:45 well, there ARE builds :) Feb 17 23:36:56 in year it shrunk 5x Feb 17 23:37:01 that's because between 2011 and 2012, we lost half the developers. Feb 17 23:37:15 Android started getting worthwhile, and iOS brings the promise of making money. Feb 17 23:37:16 personally, so long I have at least a couple of users, I don't care :) Feb 17 23:37:19 this year, other half will leave Feb 17 23:37:48 hell, I'm still supporting the Neo FreeRunner for the lone user who is still using modRana on it :) Feb 17 23:38:12 there are no new devices running maemo Feb 17 23:38:18 n900 hardware is shit by todays standards Feb 17 23:38:37 and there will be new phones coming out with real linux Feb 17 23:38:41 I'm still amazed that I managed to get over 300 people to install what was essentially a keylogger and email hijacker, for what was nothing more than an absolute shit app Feb 17 23:38:43 (firefox os) Feb 17 23:38:43 QA my arse. Feb 17 23:38:48 the only mobile PSX emulator other then Open Pandora :) Feb 17 23:39:04 with Game Gripper :) Feb 17 23:39:05 openpandora is overpriced Feb 17 23:39:27 You can run a full linux stack on the Nexus 7. Feb 17 23:39:37 psp is now £100 on ebay Feb 17 23:39:38 or less Feb 17 23:39:38 For those who dreamt of NITs back in the day, the Nexus 7 is it. Feb 17 23:39:42 jacekowski: Ferefox OS != real Linux Feb 17 23:39:46 and psvita is £200 Feb 17 23:39:47 new Feb 17 23:40:05 i was wrong, psp is £30 on ebay Feb 17 23:40:27 Firefox OS uses the Android kernel and driver to run a glorified browser Feb 17 23:40:37 thats all Feb 17 23:40:47 no native apps planned at all so far Feb 17 23:40:51 the same for Tizen Feb 17 23:41:20 i thought firefox os was meant to be running real linux Feb 17 23:41:35 a Friend has seen it on FOSDEM (Firefox OS) and was unimpressed & it said it was quite slow Feb 17 23:41:52 jacekowski: unfortunately not Feb 17 23:41:56 i've been to fosdem and i went past it Feb 17 23:42:07 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUD7VeL90e4 Feb 17 23:42:08 although, i've got few stickers from them Feb 17 23:42:26 they have platform code written in Javascript though :) Feb 17 23:42:31 rotfl Feb 17 23:42:42 that's main reason why firefox is shit and slow Feb 17 23:42:49 ubuntu says they'll allow native Feb 17 23:43:05 ahm yeah Feb 17 23:43:07 that's the one Feb 17 23:43:09 since I was once digging through the Open Layers source Feb 17 23:43:15 i was thinking about ubuntu os Feb 17 23:43:19 * ShadowJK wishes for device you can code on :) Feb 17 23:43:22 I can imaging how horrible it must look like :) Feb 17 23:43:28 ShadowJK: get an ultrabook Feb 17 23:43:55 yeah - Ubuntu & Jolla & Plasma Active are the best candidates at the moment Feb 17 23:44:09 teotwaki; why Feb 17 23:44:25 if I code on computer I might as well code for computer Feb 17 23:44:46 the only question is how botched or cut down the resulting system is Feb 17 23:44:58 because then I'm still limited to nonportable :) Feb 17 23:45:03 ShadowJK: because no matter how good the multitasking gets, you will always need a reference manual for the language you're using, and you will always need more screen real estate. Feb 17 23:45:43 if there is package manager with dependency resolution (this is a very unique Maemo 5 specific feature - most other mobile platforms are completely lacking this !) Feb 17 23:46:11 dependency resolution done linux way is a bad idea Feb 17 23:46:19 version conflicts and stuff Feb 17 23:46:35 or if there is another brain-dead stupid Aegis-like system Feb 17 23:46:50 look up WinSxS Feb 17 23:47:01 microsoft fix to conflicting .dll versions Feb 17 23:47:17 how much ugly hacking it took to have something that works Feb 17 23:47:17 but it is needed Feb 17 23:47:46 I've been recently porting for BB10 & Android Feb 17 23:47:48 doing it the linux was is not really possible in long term if you want comercial software Feb 17 23:47:51 I think dependency managers work fine on Linux. Feb 17 23:47:57 you need to bundle everything there Feb 17 23:47:59 for open source packages Feb 17 23:48:09 M4rtinK: i think that's decent idea Feb 17 23:48:16 it works much better than linux way Feb 17 23:48:17 so the an application what would be like 300 kB on Maemo Feb 17 23:48:18 jacekowski: nha, we distribute commercial software through deb and rpm Feb 17 23:48:43 was 6.9 MB with heavy cutting of unnecessary libs & files on BB10 Feb 17 23:48:51 do you build it for 100 different distro versions Feb 17 23:48:55 just don't be an idiot and depend on non-compatibly licensed libraries. Feb 17 23:48:58 and 15 MB on Android (could be probably optimized a bit) Feb 17 23:49:14 teotwaki: on bigger upgrade even glibc is upgraded Feb 17 23:49:48 at least BB10 has built in usable Qt libs & Python Feb 17 23:49:49 so you have to make sure your application is building against latest upgrade Feb 17 23:50:02 every single day Feb 17 23:50:03 and you can use Ministro on Android for Qt Feb 17 23:50:11 jacekowski: we build it for every single version of Debian from 3.0 and up, Ubuntu 8 and up, FC 12 and up (I think, not sure), and Red Hat/CentOS 5.0 and up. Feb 17 23:50:24 and it's pain in the ass to manage Feb 17 23:50:30 I don't know how many different builds that is, but it works fine. Feb 17 23:50:38 well, set up* Feb 17 23:50:41 but that means you have to bother users with installing it on first start - looks like quite a lot of users can't manage that Feb 17 23:51:13 most of commercial software i've seen goes by way of shipping all dependencies inside the package Feb 17 23:51:28 and will be fun once there is an exploit for a widely bundled library :) Feb 17 23:51:44 jacekowski: well yeah, on PC Feb 17 23:51:45 Yeah, but most commercial software hasn't had their packaging designed by smart people :) Just idiots who were under pressure and went "We'll dump everything in /opt". Feb 17 23:52:03 but if every mobile app has to drag 10MB+ of libs, that adds fast Feb 17 23:52:20 which is why i think WinSxS is much better way of doing things Feb 17 23:52:22 and has to be downloaded, stored & separately loaded to memory Feb 17 23:52:42 it is inefficient as hell Feb 17 23:52:57 To be honest, once you have mock set up for all your target distros, and a local copy of the repositories you depend on, you're golden. Debian is even easier, just a simple chroot that is rebuilt automatically every couple of weeks. Feb 17 23:53:36 It took me nearly a week to get it all setup, but we've never had any issues since then. We maintain our .spec files, and our .deb generators, and that's it. Feb 17 23:53:57 And when an old distro doesn't use the library we need, we backport it and maintain that .deb/.rpm ourselves. Feb 17 23:54:02 * ShadowJK hopes the ubuntu device will have better availability than typical nexus stuff Feb 17 23:54:16 ShadowJK: yeah, the nexus 4 has been a real disaster. Feb 17 23:54:23 I've had my order cancelled 3 times. Feb 17 23:54:31 7 is hard to find too Feb 17 23:54:32 ? Feb 17 23:54:39 7 is available in most local stores here Feb 17 23:54:55 what about 4 Feb 17 23:55:21 the nexus 4? Feb 17 23:55:39 I'Ve just finished my PySide for Android guide: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/PySideForAndroid :) Feb 17 23:55:41 They've stocked a few thousand, and are producing them by the hundreds. Feb 17 23:55:46 the one with smaller storage is being sold for $650 here, but always out of stock Feb 17 23:55:58 the nexus 7? Feb 17 23:56:01 4 Feb 17 23:56:06 holy fuck Feb 17 23:56:09 it's 200 here... Feb 17 23:56:12 (euros) Feb 17 23:56:37 300, sorry. Feb 17 23:56:59 actually, the 350 one (16GB) is available, but "ships in 3 weeks". Feb 17 23:57:08 Problem is, I bought it like that 3 times, and had my order cancelled 3 times. Feb 17 23:58:06 why are they selling a microsd-less device with only 8 or 16g storage :/ Feb 17 23:58:58 because they need to push their cloud Feb 17 23:59:03 lol Feb 17 23:59:16 I heard it's kinda rainy for Google's Cloud (pun intended) Feb 17 23:59:27 cloud is useless, burns up battery too fast Feb 18 00:00:08 also basically unusable with some local data plans (150MB/month :D) Feb 18 00:00:19 it is the cheapest one, but still :) Feb 18 00:00:20 and it requires you to purchase everything Feb 18 00:00:44 though multi user is in fact a good reason to provide a microSD-less device Feb 18 00:01:00 to be honest, i only use my phone for interwebs, and phone calls Feb 18 00:01:06 it's just sad that the iPhone has a 32, 64, and probably a 128 GB version in the coming future Feb 18 00:01:14 i watch all my porn on my laptop Feb 18 00:01:28 that could go on the cloud jacekowski Feb 18 00:01:41 most of the time a person's watching porn they're close to a charger anyway Feb 18 00:02:07 teotwaki, get a Galaxy Note 2? Feb 18 00:02:40 i wish nexus 7 had gsm and voice capabilities Feb 18 00:02:45 it would be a real note 2 killer Feb 18 00:02:52 I beg to differ Feb 18 00:02:59 and it's small enough to fit in my pocket Feb 18 00:03:01 the screen's not that good on the Nexus 7 Feb 18 00:03:13 colours feels unsaturated compared to the Note Feb 18 00:03:19 (or just about any recent device) Feb 18 00:03:22 rotfl Feb 18 00:03:27 yeah, it's actually pocketable Feb 18 00:03:33 most of people say that colours on oled screens are oversaturate Feb 18 00:03:35 d Feb 18 00:04:00 comparing it to the LG LCD connected to my PC, it still feels unsaturated :P Feb 18 00:04:16 or maybe I'm just used to Android on OLED, movies looked fine on the N7 Feb 18 00:04:53 anyway, the features Samsung added in the Note 2 are actually good Feb 18 00:04:55 nvidia control panel has a "digital vibrance" setting that lets you pull up colour saturation to fully saturated. it's the lols Feb 18 00:04:58 wish they'd go upstream Feb 18 00:05:52 MohammadAG: yeah, I love the note 2, but I'm not sure about Samsung's overlay Feb 18 00:06:04 teotwaki, it's actually pretty good Feb 18 00:06:13 on the S3, it just slowed things down Feb 18 00:06:16 i wish it had WP8 Feb 18 00:06:18 Also, price is an issue Feb 18 00:06:29 it's half the iPhone 5 in IL :D Feb 18 00:06:41 talking about slow, android is so horribly slow Feb 18 00:06:42 but then again, the iPhone 5 is about the same price as 1998 used car Feb 18 00:07:25 i don't exactly get what dictates price of a car Feb 18 00:07:30 I actually like iOS more than Android, but seeing as the jailbreak scene is dying slowly, I can't stay on that Feb 18 00:07:39 i bought a car for £800 that had 60k miles Feb 18 00:07:55 i've done another 60k miles in it, and only costs were fuel and oil Feb 18 00:08:01 6000 Israeli New Sheqel equals 1629.77 US Dollar Feb 18 00:08:05 yeah, but jacekowski, you're in the most undervalued car market on the planet. Feb 18 00:08:25 that's how much the iPhone 5 was in Israel Feb 18 00:08:30 at least when it first came out Feb 18 00:08:48 so i've paid 0.1p/mile +fuel/oil/insurance costs Feb 18 00:09:00 now it's about 1k Feb 18 00:09:07 while previous owner paid 100x as much Feb 18 00:09:17 MohammadAG: so it would be cheaper to buy it in USA, pay for a plane ticket for it and then pick it up at the airport_ Feb 18 00:09:20 ?* Feb 18 00:09:42 iCrap for $1600? Feb 18 00:09:58 1629 Feb 18 00:09:58 that's including unlimited text/voice/data forever? Feb 18 00:10:07 It's a decent markup, someone has to have made a fortune on that Feb 18 00:10:09 forever as long as you pay the monthly bill Feb 18 00:10:10 deepy, depends on the plane ticket, but yeah :P Feb 18 00:10:20 jacekowski, unlocked sim-free Feb 18 00:10:41 jacekowski what car do you own? Feb 18 00:10:41 s/\//\ and\ / Feb 18 00:10:43 MohammadAG: btw Feb 18 00:11:02 RiD: rover 25 diesel Feb 18 00:11:10 RiD: it runs perfectly on cooking oil Feb 18 00:11:39 MohammadAG: 2 hours of talk time to the whole of europe (landlines) + us/canada (mobiles + landlines) + france (mobiles + landlines), unlimited texts, and unlimited hotspot data. How much? Feb 18 00:11:40 lol Feb 18 00:11:59 not lol, but half price fuel Feb 18 00:12:21 when you do 50k miles/year it really comes up to decent savings Feb 18 00:12:22 teotwaki, in Israel? Feb 18 00:12:33 1,45€ per liter, diesel Feb 18 00:12:43 there's no unlimited data, operators allow a max of 10GB Feb 18 00:12:45 MohammadAG: nope, in France. Feb 18 00:12:46 yeah, cooking oil is less than half of that Feb 18 00:12:46 might be more expensive now Feb 18 00:12:59 but without the data, it's 135 NIS /month Feb 18 00:13:05 meaning about 35$ Feb 18 00:13:09 ok Feb 18 00:13:13 in France, 2 euros Feb 18 00:13:32 Or free, if you're a DSL/Fiber subscriber with that operator. Feb 18 00:13:32 you have to admit, Europe is kind of local :P Feb 18 00:13:44 Hang on to yer knickers, MohammadAG Feb 18 00:13:46 teotwaki: you're from france? Feb 18 00:13:52 jacekowski for petrol 98, 1,849€. 95 = 1,699€ Feb 18 00:13:59 for $35, we get unlimited calls, text, 2GB of data (!!!) Feb 18 00:14:02 things are good in portugal *cough* Feb 18 00:14:10 and free international calls to some countries Feb 18 00:14:33 RiD: diesel went up to almost £1.50 from under 1.40 last week Feb 18 00:14:46 MohammadAG: unlimited talk time to mobiles in france and US/Canada, unlimited talk time to landlines in the whole of europe, unlimited texts, and unlimited 3g data (fair use of 3GB), unlimited hotspot, how much? Feb 18 00:14:58 our minimum wage is 485€ more or less Feb 18 00:14:59 teotwaki: i'm looking for a prepaid simcard with data in france Feb 18 00:15:06 what's fair use? Feb 18 00:15:16 fair use = they lower the bandwidth if you go over the 3GB Feb 18 00:15:19 "raw" i mean, without taxes Feb 18 00:15:23 MohammadAG: after 3GB it slows down to almost 0 Feb 18 00:15:27 that's not unlimited! Feb 18 00:15:39 it's the same with the 2GBs we get Feb 18 00:15:41 err, no, not 0 :) You still get 100KB/s. Feb 18 00:15:42 i'm on 1GB fair use Feb 18 00:15:43 and i push 50GB/month through that Feb 18 00:15:52 teotwaki, I've seen that stuff in Israel Feb 18 00:15:55 t-mobile must hate me for that Feb 18 00:15:58 MohammadAG: how much? Feb 18 00:15:59 I get 25kb/s Feb 18 00:16:10 GIMME A PRICE MODAFUKA Feb 18 00:16:15 teotwaki, 4 EUROS!! Feb 18 00:16:19 close Feb 18 00:16:20 WHAT Feb 18 00:16:21 20 Feb 18 00:16:31 16 if you're a customer Feb 18 00:16:32 that's a lot actually :P Feb 18 00:16:40 see, 20-16 is 4 Feb 18 00:16:42 4€ for 2gb? Feb 18 00:16:53 jacekowski: no idea about prepaid with data Feb 18 00:16:54 in Israel? FUCK NO Feb 18 00:16:59 talking about interwebs Feb 18 00:17:07 the lowest plan you get is $30 Feb 18 00:17:10 jacekowski: but yeah, I live in France. Feb 18 00:17:12 i pay £9 for "fibre optic" broadband at home Feb 18 00:17:15 80mbits Feb 18 00:17:22 and i've downloaded just today, 300GB Feb 18 00:17:22 DL or UL? Feb 18 00:17:25 jacekowski: haha, yeah, I had that fibre optic broadband as well in London Feb 18 00:17:28 what a fucking joke Feb 18 00:17:36 it works quite well in here Feb 18 00:17:37 my ISP just upgraded my internet connection to 10mbits Feb 18 00:17:44 i have awesome 6.96Mbps Feb 18 00:17:45 't was a good day if I could load a video on youtube between 5 and 7PM Feb 18 00:17:48 i do get that 80Mbps Feb 18 00:17:52 actually 20 Feb 18 00:17:56 i've had no problems with that Feb 18 00:18:00 I'm getting fibre internet in my area. Feb 18 00:18:06 sometime 2014? Feb 18 00:18:12 I had 10, but they replaced the package with 20 for the same price Feb 18 00:18:25 SpeedEvil: if you are on normal broadband, don't say yes first time they call you Feb 18 00:18:25 currently on 1.7mbit Feb 18 00:18:31 oh btw, here's a laugh from a friend of a friend of mine Feb 18 00:18:40 MohammadAG: the good thing about the two contracts I talked to you about, is that there's no setup fee, no cancellation fee, and no minimum required engagement. Feb 18 00:18:44 SpeedEvil: they seem to get really desperate if you say no and will drop price a lot Feb 18 00:18:45 he installed a pirated app, and it showed some stuff about an FBI Anti Piracy team Feb 18 00:18:48 MohammadAG: so you could actually get that contract for a month, and fuck off. Feb 18 00:18:49 then it wiped his data Feb 18 00:18:58 http://www.speedtest.net/result/2515844815.png Feb 18 00:19:00 home adsl Feb 18 00:19:06 jacekowski: I am being very, very careful with cash ATM :-\ Feb 18 00:19:13 teotwaki, same in IL :) Feb 18 00:19:23 heh Feb 18 00:19:28 teotwaki, actually, all this happened when some rich guy from France came and opened a new mobile company Feb 18 00:19:31 Maybe IL isn't such a shit place after all Feb 18 00:19:36 MohammadAG: who? Feb 18 00:19:40 MohammadAG: Xavier Niel/ Feb 18 00:19:41 ? Feb 18 00:19:42 not sure, jut a sec Feb 18 00:19:54 but I recall something about the french being involved Feb 18 00:20:18 http://www.speedtest.net/result/2515846265.png Feb 18 00:20:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Telecom Feb 18 00:20:21 that's BT in colchester Feb 18 00:20:24 French Investor Xavier “My Way” Niel Targets Israeli Telecoms Feb 18 00:20:40 so yeah, you were close :) Feb 18 00:20:49 The company was founded by Michael Golan, a businessman who immigrated to Israel from France in 2007, and his partners, including Xavier Niel – with whom Golan previously developed several telecom ventures as an executive of the Iliad group in France, using a business model emphasizing low-cost fixed monthly pricing rather than metered usage. Feb 18 00:21:12 anyway, we never had unlimited till Golan Telecom and Hot started offering unlimited plans for the cheap price of 99NIS/month Feb 18 00:21:14 well, Xavier Niel is the head of Iliad, which owns Free, which is the operator I'm talking about in France. Feb 18 00:21:27 given all plans that offered less stuff started at about 250, that was quite a blow Feb 18 00:21:38 yeah, they did the same in France. Feb 18 00:21:43 Most plans started out at 35e Feb 18 00:21:43 i was surprised by how cheap qatar and saudi arabia were Feb 18 00:21:49 anyway, orange shat their pants and made a cheaper plan Feb 18 00:21:58 gas is cheap there jacekowski Feb 18 00:22:05 Basically, there was a plan in France, for people with very low or no income Feb 18 00:22:09 .sa was 100SAR for 10GB of data (including USB modem) Feb 18 00:22:24 If they paid 10e, they got 30 minutes of talk time, and 30 texts. Feb 18 00:22:45 And that was a contract that the telecoms has "created" for low income families. Feb 18 00:22:55 jacekowski, go to Jordan, 600JDs a year for 12GBs/month Feb 18 00:23:05 Xavier Niel arrived, had a press conference, where every journalist was given a 2euro coin. Feb 18 00:23:10 for £10 you get unlimited interwebs with 1GB fair use and 60 minutes and 60texts Feb 18 00:23:12 from tmobile Feb 18 00:23:25 teotwaki, it's still profitable though right? Feb 18 00:23:26 And they launched the 2 euro unlimited texts and 2 hour talk time Feb 18 00:23:32 well, that's what he said Feb 18 00:23:38 even if everyone used their contract Feb 18 00:23:41 I have no idea about the costs needed to operate a mobile network Feb 18 00:23:44 they still make a near 50% profit Feb 18 00:24:06 which is why they give it away to their DSL/Fibre contracts Feb 18 00:24:10 heh, I love how orange's app shows that I have about 9 (or 90?) years of talk time per month Feb 18 00:24:15 rather than just saying unlimited Feb 18 00:25:01 Anyway Feb 18 00:25:03 I'm going to head home Feb 18 00:25:14 Not like I've been getting very far this past hour Feb 18 00:25:26 So might as well try and get a few hours of sleep before the week begins. Feb 18 00:25:40 heh Feb 18 00:25:48 10 days till the BB deadline ends Feb 18 00:25:53 better start coding an app Feb 18 00:26:00 says the guy who goes to the office over the weekend Feb 18 00:26:03 what deadline? Feb 18 00:26:30 the one to get the Dev Alpha replaced with a LE device Feb 18 00:26:38 meh Feb 18 00:26:43 after that, they pull a remote plug on your device I think Feb 18 00:27:29 https://twitter.com/MohammadAG/status/291638599923953666/photo/1 Feb 18 00:27:51 what Feb 18 00:27:53 how can they do that Feb 18 00:27:58 cause they own it Feb 18 00:28:13 if you smash the whole thing, the device program won't end Feb 18 00:28:13 actually it's in the bootloader afaik Feb 18 00:28:28 cause that showed instantly after pressing the power button Feb 18 00:28:31 short circuit the board Feb 18 00:29:30 I only had to update to the newest version Feb 18 00:29:36 but I saw that it was there Feb 18 00:29:48 samsung touchwiz looks like ugly gingerbread Feb 18 00:30:01 when will they change it Feb 18 00:30:27 TouchWiz 5 isn't that bad Feb 18 00:32:08 it looks bad but i like the toolbar that appears when you swipe the notification bar Feb 18 00:32:26 better than having to click on that stupid button on the edge to appear the buttons, like nexus does Feb 18 00:34:36 show the switch buttons or w/e they are called, not "appear the buttons". brainfart Feb 18 00:35:11 what toolbar? Feb 18 00:36:24 http://images.anandtech.com/doci/4686/SC20110730-194259.jpeg Feb 18 00:36:40 that's touchwiz 4 Feb 18 00:36:43 that shit sucked :P Feb 18 00:37:01 touchwiz 5 still has the toolbar that i mean Feb 18 00:37:06 that was a random screenshot from google Feb 18 00:37:17 Best quote we heard from the training chick at our company? "Ok everyone, please use your mouse to click on the X on the top right of your screen" "click click, click click" "It doesn't work" [our chick goes around to see, she sees a woman seriously holding the mouse against the top right corner of her screen and going "click click". Feb 18 00:37:20 http://www.digitalmcgyver.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/quick-access-power-saving-galaxy.png Feb 18 00:37:43 exactly Feb 18 00:38:07 lol teotwaki Feb 18 00:38:19 i'm throwing money at my screen but it's not working Feb 18 00:38:22 MohammadAG: if only it had the button to switch of 3g Feb 18 00:38:46 teotwaki, it does Feb 18 00:38:50 that's scrollable Feb 18 00:38:57 RiD, http://img.tapatalk.com/60ee20f7-40a3-f83b.jpg Feb 18 00:38:57 nha, you need to root it or something Feb 18 00:39:01 or at least you need to on the s2 Feb 18 00:39:07 that's AOKP Feb 18 00:39:17 wait what how Feb 18 00:39:18 it's mostly for Nexus devices, but it adds toggles Feb 18 00:39:27 4.2 and above? Feb 18 00:39:28 teotwaki, root for what? Feb 18 00:39:31 dunno Feb 18 00:39:35 don't own an android Feb 18 00:39:38 except for my touchpad Feb 18 00:39:38 4.2 has a quick settings thing Feb 18 00:39:46 where you swipe with two fingers Feb 18 00:40:05 so if you swipe with two fingers it shows that? Feb 18 00:40:10 no no no Feb 18 00:40:18 anyway Feb 18 00:40:20 I'm off Feb 18 00:40:20 swipe 2 fingers, opens settings? Feb 18 00:40:21 laterz Feb 18 00:40:34 later teotwaki :) Feb 18 00:40:44 RiD, if you swipe with 2 fingers, it shows this http://cdn.asia.cnet.com/story_media/62219451/quick_settings.jpg Feb 18 00:40:55 oh i see. Feb 18 00:41:08 I'm not sure, but you probably can revert to old settings somehow Feb 18 00:41:26 i don't own an android phone anyways Feb 18 00:41:34 Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tegra 2 awful Feb 18 00:41:37 on the Nexus 7, it depends on where you swipe Feb 18 00:41:39 http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/quick-settings.jpg Feb 18 00:41:53 if you swipe on the left area, notifications open, right area -> quick settings Feb 18 00:42:01 currently on modified stock 4.0.4 to support Calls and text messaging Feb 18 00:42:04 on stock 4.2, those settings suck Feb 18 00:42:05 "modified stock" lol Feb 18 00:42:20 clicking on wifi simply opens the settings page for wifi Feb 18 00:42:23 rather than toggling wifi Feb 18 00:42:28 AOKP and CM10.1 fixed that Feb 18 00:42:45 Android's concepts are actually cool Feb 18 00:42:51 it's just Java that sucks Feb 18 00:43:12 one thing i seriously dislike is that if you get an older app Feb 18 00:43:17 all of a sudden you see the gingerbread UI Feb 18 00:43:24 you mean non holo stuff? Feb 18 00:43:27 yes Feb 18 00:43:31 I hate taht Feb 18 00:43:32 that* Feb 18 00:43:35 damn its ugly Feb 18 00:43:51 but I barely have those apps nowadays Feb 18 00:44:11 you know what one day i should adapt some sort of maemo theme to android Feb 18 00:44:50 tbh Feb 18 00:45:00 I found iOS closer to maemo than android Feb 18 00:45:04 Android is a different thing Feb 18 00:45:09 when i mean one day i mean never :| Feb 18 00:45:23 you learn stuff by making mistakes Feb 18 00:45:28 there's no wiki Feb 18 00:45:31 no documentation Feb 18 00:45:41 and the number of sane people in a community is way too small Feb 18 00:45:50 you mean android or ios? Feb 18 00:45:54 Android Feb 18 00:46:06 iOS is well documented, and imo, has the best hackers an OS can have Feb 18 00:46:23 the only thing that annoys me is that jailbreaks are closed source Feb 18 00:46:55 I'd use iOS if it didn't need to be jailbroken Feb 18 00:47:02 their APIs and tools are quite nice Feb 18 00:47:41 ^ Feb 18 00:47:53 or if a jailbreak was instant Feb 18 00:48:18 i hope android dies soon lol Feb 18 00:48:59 it's the only sane OS atm Feb 18 00:49:04 in the sense it's not locked down Feb 18 00:49:14 but it's one big ass mess Feb 18 00:49:22 all my friends have android phones... Feb 18 00:49:23 MohammadAG: BB10 is similar to iOS? Feb 18 00:49:28 one of them with 4.2... everyone else 2.3 Feb 18 00:49:42 basically, imo, pre-4.0 all suck Feb 18 00:49:56 wmarone, I found iOS way better Feb 18 00:50:08 I mean in terms of lock down Feb 18 00:50:13 developing for BB10 was annoying, at least for me Feb 18 00:50:23 i dont even understand how android became popular with 2.3 and below Feb 18 00:50:35 actually not sure, but I guess so Feb 18 00:50:43 I haven't seen an easy way to get shell access Feb 18 00:51:10 RiD, Samsung, and it was the cheap phone that gave users stuff like Viber and WhatsApp Feb 18 00:51:29 RiD: only now has 2.3 fallen below 50% of the market. Feb 18 00:51:32 The Galaxy SII was the only 2.3.4 phone I liked Feb 18 00:51:43 RiD: and only in the last few weeks Feb 18 00:51:47 SpeedEvil, only because there are still companies shipping 2.3 Feb 18 00:52:00 MohammadAG: also older phones Feb 18 00:52:06 i wouldn't mind android at all... if every phone was 4.0 and above Feb 18 00:52:07 and devices Feb 18 00:52:12 two years from now they'll die Feb 18 00:52:14 RiD, ++ Feb 18 00:52:20 but damn how can people use 2.3, it hurts my eyes Feb 18 00:52:39 each android version has a different API level Feb 18 00:52:41 my brain too Feb 18 00:52:43 afaik latest one is 17 Feb 18 00:53:02 basically, developers will start needing the new features Feb 18 00:53:11 and workarounds will stop being made Feb 18 00:53:24 WhatsApp probably supports API 5-17 Feb 18 00:53:44 which means there's a lot holding them back, since they can't use API 17 stuff on old phones Feb 18 00:54:27 strange problem: have ssh, cannot use public keys. As soon as I disable password auth I cannot get into n900 at all Feb 18 00:54:56 public keys are fine as I use only public keys to auth on every linux device I posses Feb 18 00:55:55 have you screwed up permissoomg in ~/.ssh Feb 18 00:55:56 neither server, neither desktop are able to auth, but server->desktop works, desktop->server works as well. Both have exactly same authorized_keys file as it is copied over from server Feb 18 00:56:25 how? I never touched anything apart from password auth Feb 18 00:56:37 n900 hve same file as well Feb 18 00:56:49 copied few minutes ago Feb 18 00:57:07 neither server nor desktop is able to auth Feb 18 00:57:40 actually settings match both desktop and server Feb 18 00:57:50 nothing else is ever chnged Feb 18 00:59:14 it is very annoying as I like to use askpass and agent and never type my passphrase Feb 18 00:59:48 then I can simply enter any command along ssh and it works, but n900 doesn't allow for some strange reason Feb 18 01:00:08 I can try with laptop and see if it works, but I doubt it Feb 18 01:05:36 ah this homework is killing me Feb 18 02:01:02 what a backscroll Feb 18 02:01:07 :-o Feb 18 02:01:47 teotwaki evidenced how dead this channel is ;-P Feb 18 02:02:17 Remember when Maemo was Nokia's new flagship. Feb 18 02:02:28 Hey, Ubuntu Phone dev preview next week. Feb 18 02:02:35 * SpeedEvil sighs. Feb 18 02:02:46 then maybe Jolla sometime soon. Feb 18 02:03:51 * DocScrutinizer05 despises all those glorified browser concepts, no matter how they're called Feb 18 02:04:24 and I deprecate Android kernel Feb 18 02:04:58 it's a "back to windows3.1" concept Feb 18 02:05:05 indeed Feb 18 02:08:20 in some way at this point any more platforms are good. Feb 18 02:08:49 even winmo. a duopoly isn't noticeably more healthy than a monopoly Feb 18 02:09:16 +4, SpeedEvil. Feb 18 02:09:22 Competition is good Feb 18 02:09:28 Apple and Google have gotten lazy. Feb 18 02:10:18 then there is differentiation for the point of differentiation, despite what users may think. Feb 18 02:10:39 take, for example the silly thin minute figures on the android clock Feb 18 02:11:00 sure, it means you can now tell easily it's an android device. Feb 18 02:11:30 it does not make it work better as a clock, and I've found nobody that thinks it looks better Feb 18 02:12:10 and platform breakage - like not supporting low power WiFi. Feb 18 02:12:17 err Bluetooth Feb 18 02:12:27 and ad-hoc Feb 18 02:14:25 Yeah, what's with the Ad-Hoc shit? Feb 18 02:14:52 "For user safety". Feb 18 02:15:13 I was trying to tether to my N950 the other day and I'm like, "This would work on a platform that wasn't COMPLETE AND UTTER SHIT" Feb 18 02:15:32 'google knows best' Feb 18 02:15:48 why would they disallow ad-hoc Feb 18 02:15:50 oh well Feb 18 02:15:51 see also the volume buttons not working, Feb 18 02:16:19 El Goog seems to think that users are too stupid to know whether they're being MITM'd Feb 18 02:16:29 I want a real operating system on my Nexus 7 Feb 18 02:16:32 it's a nice device otherwise Feb 18 02:16:46 * GeneralAntilles dreams of a Fremantle/Harmattan fusion. Feb 18 02:16:50 homework done uploading, i'm free Feb 18 02:16:53 .... going to sleep Feb 18 02:17:28 if you increase the volume above about a third (never mind you're listening to a quiet speech podcast), you have yo remove the device from pocket, open case, unlock, press the up button again, and accept the 'too loud may damage your hearing, before putting it away again Feb 18 02:17:47 and there is no way to make this persistent Feb 18 02:18:11 what Feb 18 02:18:30 my hearing is already damaged, so bring it on Feb 18 02:19:34 not that android devices are loud anyways Feb 18 02:19:56 a galaxy nexus isn't louder than an n900, and the sound does not seem very balanced either, seems to boost the bass Feb 18 02:20:31 * SpeedEvil needs to measure the actual output voltage. Feb 18 02:20:48 I suspect it's warning way before the 30mw suggested limit Feb 18 02:21:05 i'd care more about the actual headphones you're using Feb 18 02:21:24 along with their sensitivity and impedance Feb 18 02:21:52 SpeedEvil, doesn't France have some law about that? Feb 18 02:22:20 RiD: exactly Feb 18 02:22:35 GeneralAntilles: probably. I meant to look into the legisopatiom, Feb 18 02:22:53 currently still distracted by UK social security legislation. Feb 18 02:23:05 It's like Nokia's stupid "unplug the charge from power supply" popup. Feb 18 02:23:12 HHA Feb 18 02:23:20 to save energy Feb 18 02:23:24 reading and understanding the new universal credit legislation and regulatory guidance Feb 18 02:23:32 That shit pissed me off so much the first time I saw it. Feb 18 02:23:46 i dont mind it lol Feb 18 02:23:46 GeneralAntilles: especially as new Nokia chargers use about 100mW idle Feb 18 02:24:08 ahh i found it, mine are 126dB and 32 ohms Feb 18 02:24:40 bug #2285 Good times, good times. Feb 18 02:24:42 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/2285 Charger disconnect notice is unnecessarily "green" at the expense of accuracy and usability Feb 18 02:24:56 or a total of maybe £3 of electricity over the product life Feb 18 02:25:58 eprom999 has a nice message lol Feb 18 02:29:38 what's the n900 audio output voltage? Feb 18 02:31:14 possibly ±1.5 or so Feb 18 02:31:24 what Feb 18 02:32:02 translate that Feb 18 02:50:59 probably about 30mW into 32r **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 18 02:59:58 2013