**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 19 02:59:58 2013 Feb 19 11:03:03 is there any reason why I shouldn't add the SDK repositories to my N900's app manager? Feb 19 11:04:09 Mekkis yes Feb 19 11:04:23 the sdk repos install shit all over the place. Feb 19 11:04:32 This will fill your root partition Feb 19 11:04:38 making your n900 foobar. Feb 19 11:04:57 ...you could do it in a chroot though. Feb 19 11:07:07 vi____, so if I'm trying to compile a program that requires libx11-dev, I should just install the prereqs manually? Feb 19 11:08:02 You are trying to compile on the device? Feb 19 11:08:14 I am... Feb 19 11:08:34 You are a nutter. Feb 19 11:08:59 (or am I Doing It Wrong, and should I be creating a buildchain with cross-compiler on a PC?) Feb 19 11:09:05 ??? Feb 19 11:09:20 what is wrong with the scratchbox environment? Feb 19 11:09:34 ~skeiron Feb 19 11:09:34 from memory, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Feb 19 11:10:06 vi____, probably nothing, other than until just then, I didn't know of its existence. Where can I find more? Feb 19 11:10:27 ~sdk Feb 19 11:10:27 The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com Feb 19 11:10:29 Mekkis: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z Feb 19 11:10:32 ??? Feb 19 11:10:50 Mekkis: it makes everything so easy. Feb 19 11:11:47 I'll give it a try. Feb 19 11:11:55 Is it not funny that the noscript, an addon to protect you from spamverts and other shit has a web page that is riddled with dubious spamverts? Feb 19 11:34:01 anyone good with routers? Feb 19 11:36:37 depends what you want to know, Mo. Feb 19 11:41:25 I've used one before. Feb 19 11:42:00 * kerio has one Feb 19 12:03:13 Hi there Feb 19 12:38:08 Hey maemoers. I've been stuck for a while now, in trying to get Python requests installed. I'd really appreciate a hand. kerio helped me fantastically yesterday getting a virtualenv setup. From within my virtualenv I enter 'pip install requests', and get the error "InstallationError: Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error code -6". The full output is here - http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=V6zzzq5S Feb 19 12:38:15 Any help with this would be really appreciated. Feb 19 13:03:42 Perhaps, rather, could someone with Python2.7 installed try a 'pip install requests' to see if it work for them? Feb 19 13:06:00 narcos: hm, my pip can't download requests Feb 19 13:06:04 it just hangs Feb 19 13:06:17 ah, here we go Feb 19 13:06:21 it's really slow Feb 19 13:06:55 as plan b, you can just get the code and put it into site-packages or near your code Feb 19 13:07:19 InstallationError: Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error code -6 in /home/user/req/build/requests Feb 19 13:07:22 that's very useful, pip Feb 19 13:09:32 vi____, NAT Feb 19 13:09:33 kerio: Ah, so same as me then :-/ Feb 19 13:09:42 I have two routers connected to each other Feb 19 13:10:04 one is an ISP supplied modem + router combo, the router part is crappy compared to the other one Feb 19 13:10:21 the other one is a TP-Link WDR4300, which is only a router Feb 19 13:10:56 narcos: "import requests" fails with an Aborted Feb 19 13:11:00 and crashes python, or something Feb 19 13:11:02 the setup is Phone line -> ISP router -> LAN1 -> WAN on TP-Link -> LAN to others + WLAN Feb 19 13:11:18 so basically the ISP router is only used for one LAN, should I disable NAT on it? Feb 19 13:11:19 narcos: you find the "requests" package in build/requests Feb 19 13:11:30 kerio: I get the Aborted single line message when attempting to install it manually with 'python setup.py install' Feb 19 13:11:50 narcos: i get "Aborted" when **importing the module** Feb 19 13:12:01 kerio: Doh. Feb 19 13:12:18 ok, the problem is urllib3 Feb 19 13:12:30 MohammadAG: I've just replaced my old linksys wrt-54gl for a TPL WDR4300 running openwrt yesterday Feb 19 13:12:45 ahhh Feb 19 13:13:03 with a similar setup ;) adsl router -> tpl router -> ... Feb 19 13:13:04 it's really weird Feb 19 13:13:30 kerio: I'm sort of glad you're having the same problem, I feel less to blame. Feb 19 13:13:34 AD-N770, my WDR4300 sucks a bit, it can't be upgraded Feb 19 13:13:42 oh, it's obviously still your fault Feb 19 13:13:52 i hope you're ashamed of what you've done Feb 19 13:13:53 well, it can, but Warning: This version can only update the Israeli customized firmware , as the universal firmware from Feb 19 13:13:53 TP-LINK global website has some wireless channels which are not allowed by the government. Feb 19 13:13:59 kerio: I am :-( Feb 19 13:14:05 * narcos sits in the corner and thinks about what he's done Feb 19 13:14:10 now Feb 19 13:14:15 why the hell does this package ship its own urllib3? Feb 19 13:14:40 MohammadAG: upgraded to openwrt or to tpl firmwares ? Feb 19 13:14:59 I can't, it rejects it Feb 19 13:15:08 only takes Israeli image Feb 19 13:15:24 MohammadAG: if you disable NAT you won't get any inbound connections though Feb 19 13:15:30 put your inner router in the outer router's DMZ Feb 19 13:15:35 I think that with a ttl to rs232 and accessing to the boot loader you might be able to flash it Feb 19 13:15:47 MohammadAG: even better, try to use your outer router as a pppoe modem - sometimes it works Feb 19 13:15:53 at least install openwrt the hard way Feb 19 13:15:56 kerio, I did that Feb 19 13:15:59 the DMZ part Feb 19 13:16:16 are there any configured forwards? Feb 19 13:16:23 maybe disabling nat will also disable the dmz Feb 19 13:16:40 routers, especially cheap ones (and ones that come from providers are *always* cheap) are seriously stupid Feb 19 13:16:56 kerio: not always. Feb 19 13:17:05 kerio, everything's working fine actually, I'm just wondering if the double NAT setup is a bad thing Feb 19 13:17:15 fine, *most* but not all cheap routers Feb 19 13:17:20 MohammadAG: meh Feb 19 13:17:21 it's a Netgear VVG2000 Feb 19 13:17:34 by the way, why aren't you using it as your only router? Feb 19 13:18:02 cause I have no modem :( Feb 19 13:18:09 i meant the outer one Feb 19 13:18:23 it's not like the inner one is all customized and fancy Feb 19 13:18:42 cause the inner one is a dual band router with 3 antennas and the outer one is a single band one with no antennas? Feb 19 13:21:23 narcos: ok, it's a urllib3 problem Feb 19 13:23:19 another thing, how do I add dput support to a repository? Feb 19 13:23:46 since my server runs at home I can run whatever daemons I want, so might as well add inception repository upload support Feb 19 13:26:16 kerio: Ah ok - do you think it's something I can solve, or am I better off scraping requests/urllib3 and using urlib2? My application is quite intense in terms of number of requests, so I wanted keep-alive functionality of urllib3 Feb 19 13:26:52 idk Feb 19 13:26:54 you tell me Feb 19 13:26:58 file a bug Feb 19 13:27:40 kerio: OK will do :) How did you deduce it was a urllib3 issue? (details for the bug report) Feb 19 13:27:56 narcos: pip install urllib3; python -c "import urllib3" Feb 19 13:28:11 (requests' setup.py does an "import requests") Feb 19 13:29:27 kerio: requests' setup.py does an "import requests", or "import urllib3" ? Feb 19 13:29:51 narcos: urllib3 is a package inside requests Feb 19 13:29:54 for some weird-ass reason Feb 19 13:31:00 kerio: OK, odd. I'll file a bug report now. Thanks for helping with this, I'd been struggling since we last chatted. Feb 19 13:31:08 A thousand internet karmas for you. Feb 19 13:35:37 how i wish that bitcoins were more common Feb 19 13:36:19 they're like internet karmas, but they can turn into money Feb 19 13:36:28 BTW, I'm using urllib3 in modRana Feb 19 13:36:42 for the same reason - to reuse connections when downloading map tiles Feb 19 13:36:50 maybe it's a python2.7 problem Feb 19 14:10:12 Hmm, I'd like to install strace, but don't see it in the repos Feb 19 14:10:45 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/strace#Packages gives empty links Feb 19 14:11:54 nm, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/s/strace/strace_4.5.20-2.3maemo2_armel.deb Feb 19 14:25:21 6000+0 records out Feb 19 14:25:23 25165824000 bytes (25 GB) copied, 48.6864 s, 517 MB/s Feb 19 14:30:47 where? Feb 19 14:30:57 on my PC Feb 19 14:31:53 dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/xxxxxx Feb 19 14:32:13 25165824000 bytes transferred in 3.773988 secs (6668231045 bytes/sec) Feb 19 14:32:29 /dev/null is really fast Feb 19 14:33:42 meh Feb 19 14:34:33 besides, why isn't your /tmp a tmpfs? Feb 19 14:34:41 linux-pa25:~ # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=4M count=6000 Feb 19 14:34:43 6000+0 records in Feb 19 14:34:44 6000+0 records out Feb 19 14:34:46 25165824000 bytes (25 GB) copied, 1.22613 s, 20.5 GB/s Feb 19 15:00:57 kerio: because only fools use their RAM for generic temporary crap Feb 19 15:01:30 you're using precious, precious I/O! Feb 19 15:01:59 kerio: what would be the rationale of an app storing sth to /tmp instead of keeping it in malloc()ed buffers, when /tmp is RAM as well? Feb 19 15:02:40 so it's accessible outside too? Feb 19 15:02:46 because it really wants a file? Feb 19 15:02:49 idk Feb 19 15:03:39 no, /tmp is not exactly the place to *share* files between processes Feb 19 15:03:39 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/tmp-on-tmpfs Name: Lennart Poettering Feb 19 15:03:40 ohoho Feb 19 15:06:14 >>We might need to patch a couple of packages not to store big files and files needing boot persistance in /tmp, but rather in /var/tmp<< rhat a blockhead Feb 19 15:06:47 tmpfs on /var/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) Feb 19 15:06:57 Why is this mount established via a systemd unit file, instead of an entry in /etc/fstab?: We believe that /etc/fstab is the place to configure real file systems Feb 19 15:07:05 tmpfs on /var/run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) Feb 19 15:07:11 WTF? Feb 19 15:07:21 tmpfs should be in fstab too... Feb 19 15:07:51 seems that lennart got good idea to move some parts from fstab to systemd... Feb 19 15:07:53 tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) Feb 19 15:07:54 tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755) Feb 19 15:08:16 stupid idea from maemo --> generating fstab Feb 19 15:08:32 lennart is better --> do not generate fstab and do not use it Feb 19 15:08:52 instead call mount from systemd Feb 19 15:09:16 when will lennart delete /dev/? Feb 19 15:09:20 ~poettering Feb 19 15:09:20 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' Feb 19 15:09:35 normal user do not need to call mount Feb 19 15:09:43 so also so not need /dev filesystem Feb 19 15:09:44 Pali: device files are outdated and no needed in modern linux desktops Feb 19 15:10:00 just do your whole I/O through dbus Feb 19 15:10:19 RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON!! Feb 19 15:10:38 kerio, shut up, this channel is public and logged Feb 19 15:10:41 hehe Feb 19 15:10:45 lennart can read logs and implement it Feb 19 15:11:12 lennart doesn't need any logs to come up with such VS Feb 19 15:11:32 BS* Feb 19 15:11:37 GKH now implementing AF_DBUS protocol family for implementing better high speed dbus Feb 19 15:12:02 so I belive that lennart will not use it for deprecating /dev Feb 19 15:14:04 ...i don't even Feb 19 15:14:10 GeneralAntilles: lol, what'd I do now? :P Feb 19 15:14:31 rm_work, the G+ post about the autocross. :P Feb 19 15:14:34 ah :P Feb 19 15:14:38 do you autocross? Feb 19 15:14:42 and/or want to? :P Feb 19 15:14:59 I don't. Feb 19 15:15:04 a fucking socket type for poettering Feb 19 15:15:06 Don't have the car or the money for it. Feb 19 15:15:11 But I'd love to some time, yes. Feb 19 15:15:20 You don't need a fancy car Feb 19 15:15:22 Lived vicariously through racing sims for years and years. :D Feb 19 15:15:25 :P Feb 19 15:15:31 You can race in ANYTHING Feb 19 15:16:02 you can get a decently running Miata for between 2k and 4k depending on how nice the interior and paint are Feb 19 15:16:02 True Feb 19 15:16:08 and that is a great autocross car Feb 19 15:16:12 even stock it's super fn Feb 19 15:16:13 *fun Feb 19 15:16:24 and that's pretty cheap for *a car* Feb 19 15:16:34 Yeah Feb 19 15:16:46 Still, time, money. Feb 19 15:16:47 Lazy. Feb 19 15:16:54 yeah, I'm learning how to be a mechanic Feb 19 15:17:07 I bought a Miata for super cheap, replaced the entire drivetrain myself Feb 19 15:17:11 NA? Feb 19 15:17:15 yeah Feb 19 15:17:16 91 Feb 19 15:17:46 There's an NC sitting in the garage here, but it's automatic. D: Feb 19 15:17:51 T_T Feb 19 15:17:58 the NCs look nice Feb 19 15:18:05 Yeah they do Feb 19 15:18:05 but I like the popup headlights the NAs have :P Feb 19 15:18:10 a bit too heavy Feb 19 15:18:12 plus they're a little lighter Feb 19 15:18:14 heh yeah Feb 19 15:18:18 NA is right around 2k Feb 19 15:18:21 Popup headlights - just one more thing to break Feb 19 15:18:24 meh Feb 19 15:18:34 the popup headlights on Miatas basically NEVER fail Feb 19 15:18:55 the ones on mine and the ones on my friend's 96, even badly taken care of, are still super strong Feb 19 15:19:12 the *engine* broke before the headlights did :P Feb 19 15:19:24 Haha Feb 19 15:19:39 does the NC have a manu-matic mode? manual shifting with paddles or something? Feb 19 15:20:42 Yes Feb 19 15:20:49 It's . . . not great. Feb 19 15:21:09 I prefer driving my Camry just because of the transmission. . . . Feb 19 15:22:01 yeah, well, my ralliart is an "automatic manual" but shifting it myself cut like 8 seconds off my time Feb 19 15:22:31 Haha Feb 19 15:22:43 Didn't we have an argument about automatic/manual when you bought that thing? Feb 19 15:22:48 yes Feb 19 15:22:54 it's still a manual Feb 19 15:23:01 it just... automatically controls it Feb 19 15:23:19 Does it have a clutch pedal? :P Feb 19 15:23:27 but the advantage being, in this case, i manually controlled it and it shifts super quick for me :P Feb 19 15:23:44 Isn't it a DSG? Feb 19 15:24:10 (/tmp) WHY THE FUCK poettering is poettering /tmp instead of suggesting /ramdisk and making those apps patched that want to use THIS, instead of redefining /tmp and making apps patched that DON'T want it???? Feb 19 15:24:29 errr, kinda similar Feb 19 15:24:32 I wouldn't get automatic unless it's a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Maserati/$supercar Feb 19 15:24:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Clutch_SST Feb 19 15:25:18 Yeah, not quite the same thing as an automatic with manual override. Feb 19 15:25:22 I've tried a lot of different automatics, and other than on the BMW M5, I've not enjoyed any of them Feb 19 15:25:34 Worst still being French automatics. Feb 19 15:26:56 Electro only hybrid FTW Feb 19 15:27:22 What's an eletro-only hybrid? Feb 19 15:27:41 Electric bullshit is boring Feb 19 15:28:00 Heavy, boring to drive, expensive to buy and maintain. Feb 19 15:28:11 I like the tesla roadster :P Feb 19 15:29:02 a concept used in German rail locos in the early to mid 1900s, which been so successful it been not allowed to be used by Germany after WW-ii iirc Feb 19 15:29:26 1 speed transmission is not fun. :P Feb 19 15:29:28 get a strong diesel angine driving a dynamo Feb 19 15:29:28 i have to say, the shifting in the ralliart with the SST isn't as FUN as in the miata I've been driving (a real manual), but it's waaaaay better/faster at shifting than I'll probably ever be Feb 19 15:29:34 so, much more effective Feb 19 15:29:44 I drive for fun, not to be "effective" Feb 19 15:30:10 well, when you're driving for times, effectiveness can BE a sort of fun Feb 19 15:30:52 if the SST shaves a second off my times, that could mean the difference between 1st and 8th place sometimes Feb 19 15:32:26 doing the same diesel->dynamo thing in a car, then putting a 100kW brushless into each of the 4 hubs would probably result in something nice Feb 19 15:32:54 top Feb 19 15:33:33 The Toyota GT86 seems very interesting Feb 19 15:36:15 relatively inexpensive, rear wheel drive, 200 bhp, very, very fun to drive. Feb 19 15:36:19 What more do you ask for? Feb 19 15:37:22 oh hey, europe people -- i'm going to europe for two weeks in May, with 3 other people. How should the four of us get around? train? ryanair? rent a car? Feb 19 15:38:41 rm_work: train is generally shit unless you go from big city to big city. London -> Paris or Brussels is fine by Eurostar (and as fast/less hassle than plane) Feb 19 15:38:58 rm_work: but finding flights from one spot to another will be expensive Feb 19 15:39:04 hrm Feb 19 15:39:18 Ryanair looked to be like 30Euro per person for some flights Feb 19 15:39:31 rm_work: car rental will limit your range, as you'll have a relatively limited distance allowance Feb 19 15:39:35 which is not too bed considering Eurail wants $500Euro per person for two weeks Feb 19 15:39:48 $500Euro? Feb 19 15:39:53 500 eurodollars? Feb 19 15:39:55 err Feb 19 15:39:57 500 EUro Feb 19 15:40:04 I started typing the price in dollars and then reconsidered :P Feb 19 15:40:15 well, the problem you're going to have is that Ryanair doesn't actually land near big cities Feb 19 15:40:35 and airports have.. airport security :) Feb 19 15:40:41 so for example, Barcelona is actually Girona, which adds an hour or three of bus before you're in Barcelona Feb 19 15:40:47 i found a car rental for 1000 Euro that was pickup in Frankfurt and dropoff in Madrid (our landing and departure airports) Feb 19 15:40:50 roughly the same everywhere, maybe not 3 hours. Feb 19 15:40:58 ok, that's a good note Feb 19 15:41:03 1000 euros for 3 weeks? Feb 19 15:41:07 2 weeks Feb 19 15:41:15 That's very expensive, young drivers? Feb 19 15:41:19 plus then have to factor in gas Feb 19 15:41:22 no Feb 19 15:41:29 Then 750euros should be the max you pay Feb 19 15:41:41 probably it is "pick up at frankfurt airport" -> "drop off at madrid airport" Feb 19 15:41:47 that is causing the extra expense Feb 19 15:41:58 or the fact that we're out of country? Feb 19 15:42:10 well, OOC dropoff does cost a lot Feb 19 15:43:08 where do you live? Feb 19 15:45:14 Texas :P Feb 19 15:47:42 well Feb 19 15:47:45 with my company card Feb 19 15:47:46 and your profile Feb 19 15:49:04 company card? Feb 19 15:49:39 I get an audi a4 with unlimited range, one free gas refill, free gps, pick up at frankfurt airport and drop off at madrid airport, for $1200. Feb 19 15:50:07 rm_work: we have a deal with europcar Feb 19 15:50:09 FRA->madrid should be available for not too much per plane Feb 19 15:50:22 if you book early Feb 19 15:50:29 DocScrutinizer05: they want to discover europe, flying doesn't help with that :P Feb 19 15:50:37 teotwaki: lol well, that helps me only if i can use your company card :P Feb 19 15:50:50 rm_work: well, you can't. Just find a better deal than what you have. Feb 19 15:50:53 heh Feb 19 15:50:56 then I suggest to get dirt cheap flight FRA-Sevillia Feb 19 15:51:05 and drive by car from there Feb 19 15:51:12 why would they fly into frankfurt to fly out of there? Feb 19 15:51:22 weather in Germany is shit, as probably is in Madrid Feb 19 15:51:37 right now? or in May? :P Feb 19 15:51:41 Weather's fine in Madrid at that time of year. Feb 19 15:52:01 ooh, in May it's beautiful... in Sevillia ;-) Feb 19 15:52:05 rm_work: I live in Perpignan, if you swing by, give me a holler, I'll buy you guys a beer. Feb 19 15:52:44 there is *beer* available in Perpignan? :-o Feb 19 15:52:54 :P Feb 19 15:53:43 Sorry, Frankonia here Feb 19 15:53:50 haha Feb 19 15:53:50 http://vandb.fr/catalogue/7-bi%C3%A8res Feb 19 15:53:52 we may be through there, wanted to check out rome / florence and then go through marseille and down to barcelona Feb 19 15:53:54 best beer district of the world Feb 19 15:54:00 and you're right on the way across the coast Feb 19 15:54:33 rm_work: there's not much to see in marseille :) Drive by, stay far. Feb 19 15:54:41 Marseille has the same tourist appeal as Detroit, frankly. Feb 19 15:54:56 lol Feb 19 15:55:06 well, we'd like to see somewhere that's more normal, i think Feb 19 15:55:15 to get an idea of what the country is like just... normally Feb 19 15:55:21 sometimes tourist stuff gets old Feb 19 15:55:28 If you want to spend the night at a touristy area, and have fun, I'd recommend Palavas Les Flots Feb 19 15:55:31 ah Feb 19 15:55:44 not to say we want to spend the whole time doing that :P Feb 19 15:55:56 Then go up to Ardeche some where and camp Feb 19 15:56:06 but it's on the way between rome and barcelona Feb 19 15:56:09 teotwaki: or as Frankfurt ;-D Feb 19 15:56:16 DocScrutinizer05: haha Feb 19 15:56:24 Frankfurt was cheap to fly into :P Feb 19 15:56:43 I bet it was, it's one of 2 major airports Feb 19 15:57:40 and i've been to Berlin before, thanks to Nokia :P Feb 19 15:57:59 I'd prefer Berlin to Frankfurt every day Feb 19 15:58:32 Frankfurt is.... boring Feb 19 15:58:45 yeah Berlin was pretty awesome Feb 19 15:58:48 there is major problem with both of those Feb 19 15:58:51 they speak german there Feb 19 15:58:53 and that's its most pleasant property Feb 19 15:59:07 jacekowski: lol, i speak German... badly... :P Feb 19 15:59:24 at both locations everybody speaks english Feb 19 15:59:31 too Feb 19 15:59:49 I would imagine :P but I also can understand / speak enough German to survive Feb 19 16:00:05 well... assuming I want to go to the Library Feb 19 16:00:22 unlike in France, Italy, Spain Feb 19 16:00:25 rm_work: here's what I'd do, depending on the budget, obviously: Arrive at Frankfurt, train to Amsterdam, train to Belgium (Brussels or Bruges are nice). Here, two options, either fly to Milan, or grab a train to Paris and another train to Milan. Feb 19 16:00:58 yeah, Brussels was in my plan, definately Feb 19 16:01:09 i would take train over plane any day Feb 19 16:01:25 depends Feb 19 16:01:43 well, is this ridiculous 500Euro 2week Eurail pass worth it? Feb 19 16:01:44 train leaves almost from my doorstep, there is plenty of space inside and no luggage restrictions Feb 19 16:02:04 rm_work: from there, grab a car, drive down to Madrid, but instead of just going round the coast (which is boring), make a hook through Lyon (which is a nice city, especially by night), have a stop at Montpellier, which is another very nice city (really beautiful/hip), then go through to Barcelona and finally Madrid. Feb 19 16:02:30 How expensive is it to grab a train ride like that, if you just show up at the train station that day? Feb 19 16:02:34 rm_work: prolly not, since it restricts your trains to the slow ones, afaik Feb 19 16:03:08 jacekowski: (plenty of space) where are you living, dude? :-) Feb 19 16:03:26 a lot more than on a plane Feb 19 16:03:41 yeah Ryanair gives you like, zero free baggage, lol Feb 19 16:03:43 ICE is not much difference to a plane, except you maybe find no seat Feb 19 16:04:19 ack for baggage Feb 19 16:04:32 and you can get electricity on the train Feb 19 16:04:34 and interwebs Feb 19 16:04:53 where would I find out how expensive those individual train rides are? Feb 19 16:04:56 hmm, the first applies to many planes as well, the second not to all trains Feb 19 16:05:00 rm_work: depends on the country Feb 19 16:05:12 rm_work: The reason for Barcelona is that the Sagrada Familia is something you won't get to see often in your life (pretty much like the Colosseum, just less old, I guess) Feb 19 16:05:22 rm_work: http://www.sncf.com/en/passengers http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ Feb 19 16:05:44 rm_work: where are you going exactly? Feb 19 16:05:52 jacekowski: still figuring it out Feb 19 16:05:58 rm_work: http://www.bahn.de/i/view/GBR/en/index.shtml Feb 19 16:06:08 rm_work: for germany look into "Bahncard50" and "*25", it might be worth it Feb 19 16:06:36 even for a single ticket, particularly when you are 4 Feb 19 16:06:42 DocScrutinizer05: karls ruhe to frankfurt - what's the best way of doing that? Feb 19 16:07:29 jacekowski: no idea, I usually don't do that. But I *guess* there's a direct train which hsould be pretty convenient Feb 19 16:08:16 http://goo.gl/maps/7pcB0 Feb 19 16:08:30 amsterdam Feb 19 16:08:32 nice place Feb 19 16:08:38 that's a quick sketch based on input i got from people earlier but really mostly following teotwaki's advice :P Feb 19 16:08:41 you can get some drugs there and prostitues are cheap Feb 19 16:08:45 which happens to line up with our stuff eventually Feb 19 16:08:53 lol Feb 19 16:09:02 rm_work: also get "Fahrplan" app for Germany ;-D Feb 19 16:09:04 I have actually been to Amsterdam :P also thanks to Nokia Feb 19 16:09:09 it's using DB Feb 19 16:09:28 DeutscheBahn web app Feb 19 16:09:37 rm_work: and if you book in advance you can get flights for like £15 sometimes Feb 19 16:09:43 or even less Feb 19 16:09:43 yeah Feb 19 16:09:54 where are you from? Feb 19 16:10:18 jacekowski: Texas Feb 19 16:10:26 ahm, yeah, no guns allowed in eu Feb 19 16:10:30 lol Feb 19 16:10:30 rm_work: http://www.tgv-europe.com/en/train-europe Feb 19 16:10:36 yippiahyeee Feb 19 16:10:46 ;-) Feb 19 16:10:55 originally I am not from Texas, just been living here for a few years now :P Feb 19 16:11:00 but i like it for the most part Feb 19 16:11:11 rather be on the west coast though -- california or Washington Feb 19 16:11:14 plenty of trigger happy people there Feb 19 16:11:34 jacekowski: i own a few pistols and a few rifles myself <_< Feb 19 16:11:40 but i had those before I moved down there Feb 19 16:12:01 MD134D Feb 19 16:12:16 FRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT Feb 19 16:12:18 should I bring a cowboy hat with me and wear it around europe? :P Feb 19 16:12:52 not really Feb 19 16:13:36 when you're going? Feb 19 16:13:53 two weeks in the middle of May Feb 19 16:13:59 >>The gun was originally specified to fire at 6,000 rpm, but this was later lowered to 4,000 rpm.<< Feb 19 16:14:19 lol, would love to shoot one of those :P Feb 19 16:14:35 i would love to be able to *afford* it Feb 19 16:14:37 rpm? Feb 19 16:14:41 8firing one) Feb 19 16:14:41 rounds per minute Feb 19 16:14:43 ahm Feb 19 16:14:53 how much does one round cost? Feb 19 16:14:58 probably about $1 Feb 19 16:15:06 6k in one minute Feb 19 16:15:07 ~1$ ? Feb 19 16:15:26 at least in TX that's what rounds for those kinds of guns go for Feb 19 16:15:37 I don't know what it's shooting though... Feb 19 16:15:47 if it's just like, 9mm NATO rounds, that's not as bad Feb 19 16:15:47 7.65 Feb 19 16:16:09 Cartridge 7.62×51mm NATO Feb 19 16:16:14 hrm, don't know that one Feb 19 16:16:21 i'm not like, a gun nut :P Feb 19 16:16:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun Feb 19 16:17:36 or search "Mythbusters" Feb 19 16:17:55 they had some fun with one of those too Feb 19 16:18:08 (youtube) Feb 19 16:18:38 heh Feb 19 16:22:40 vi____, ping Feb 19 16:24:56 rm_work: anyway, no chance you'll find one of those in EU ;-) Feb 19 16:25:05 DocScrutinizer05: well clearly, using /tmp instead of a hypothetical /ramdisk is better for retrocompatibility Feb 19 16:25:20 that's what lennart is about Feb 19 16:25:21 kerio: WTF? Feb 19 16:26:55 He's trying to forcefeed new semantics of /tmp down everybody's throat, and suggests those who can't live with new limitations this implies shall patch their app (to use other random location to store e.g. large files). So that is a sane concept of backwards compatibility? Feb 19 16:27:05 >sane Feb 19 16:27:06 >poettering Feb 19 16:27:14 methinks you can only pick one Feb 19 16:27:47 yeah [sane] and [poettering] are disjunct Feb 19 16:29:28 lately, most discussions here end up in "meh, fuckin nokia", "meh, fuckin board" or "meh, fuckin poettering" Feb 19 16:29:44 * rm_work doesn't know who poettering is Feb 19 16:29:48 ~poettering Feb 19 16:29:49 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' Feb 19 16:29:51 Nokia been extremely generous to day Feb 19 16:30:04 cancer is egocentric? Feb 19 16:30:07 I can't blame them too much, in general Feb 19 16:30:41 DocScrutinizer05: abuse victims often tend to justify the abusers Feb 19 16:30:45 teotwaki: attribute it to my poor English Feb 19 16:30:45 :P Feb 19 16:30:48 * andre__ dislikes the poettering bashing. Feb 19 16:31:15 kerio: Helsinki syndrome? Feb 19 16:31:47 rm_work: lennart poettering, the dude behind pulseaudio, systemd and the udev that only works with systemd, avahi Feb 19 16:31:50 kerio: http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure Feb 19 16:33:07 andre__: why not? Feb 19 16:33:57 You'd like to see such use of your name, just to express disagreement with technical decisions? Feb 19 16:34:04 feels pretty childish. Feb 19 16:34:19 well, at least he has a record to ignore all sound arguments against his projects. So odds are he ignores bashing as well Feb 19 16:36:10 I miss the logic in that sentence. :) Feb 19 16:36:21 so because people don't care I can bash them? Yay. Feb 19 16:36:37 andre__: to stay honest, his decisions, though usually poorly backed up by technical reasoning, often tend to feel like "brain's plan how to conquer the world" Feb 19 16:37:41 That's an opinion and totally fine. I only criticized using his name as an adjective synonym for something negative. Feb 19 16:38:12 or more straight, he doesn't give a thing about backwards compatibility and how many app devels need to patch their stuff to adopt his new brilliant ideas where linux should move to Feb 19 16:38:41 hey guys! I am having problems installing from and updating extras-devel Feb 19 16:38:53 that's a rogue mindset in my book Feb 19 16:39:12 it downloads the same file several times, starts updating and then says - failed to download Feb 19 16:39:17 louigi: Feb 19 16:39:20 ~mirrors Feb 19 16:39:20 [mirror] http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Feb 19 16:39:27 andre__: if he didn't like it, he shouldn't've been so poettering Feb 19 16:39:39 DocScrutinizer05, thank you sir Feb 19 16:39:46 louigi: np, yw Feb 19 16:41:52 DocScrutinizer05, another question, if I may... I tried playing with CSSU features. But nothing I change there seems to do anything. Namely, rotation. What does it do? Should it make any app rotate? Feb 19 16:43:10 again, disagreeing on background compatibility is no good reason for childish use of names... Feb 19 16:44:07 I recall seeing a deprecated function named nobodyElseUsesThisFunction at some point Feb 19 16:44:18 Wish I could remember where Feb 19 16:44:36 louigi: did you install cssu stable or cssu testing? Feb 19 16:44:51 kerio, stable Feb 19 16:45:10 cssu stable is meant to be indistinguishable from the latest nokia release, apart for bugfixes Feb 19 16:46:08 kerio, oops, does it mean I will not see any cool stuff if I stay on stable? Feb 19 16:46:30 meh Feb 19 16:46:42 less security vulnerabilities is cool Feb 19 16:49:59 i wish the camera bug would be fixed, where even if the setting is set to Flash Off, it will still use the flash on the first shot Feb 19 16:52:30 louigi: you can enable most of the "cool stuff" on CSSU stable Feb 19 16:53:25 fwiw, nicocam doesn't have that bug i think Feb 19 16:53:26 louigi: (flash) I don't know if that's been fixed in nicocam used in CSSU-testing instead of stock camera Feb 19 16:53:32 :-) Feb 19 16:53:55 DocScrutinizer05, I tried CSSU Features, but for sure rotation did not work out. Is there any config app I can use? Feb 19 16:54:45 louigi: the config apps (2) that are available for CSSU tweaking are either non-comprehensive or outright bitrotten and borked Feb 19 16:55:26 louigi: please see wiki pages about how to enable "cool stuff" in CSSU-S via tools like gconftool etc Feb 19 16:55:50 editing transitions file with arbitrary editor of your choice is a great method Feb 19 16:56:32 DocScrutinizer05, got ya, will do Feb 19 16:56:35 just doublecheck you don't introduce problems that casue HildonDesktop to segfault on startup Feb 19 16:56:46 yikes Feb 19 16:56:52 since otherwise you might be screwed Feb 19 16:57:14 use BM, as suggested on CSSU main wiki page Feb 19 16:57:41 ok! Feb 19 16:57:41 "easy" to recover from such config bootloop issue, using BM Feb 19 16:57:51 %) Feb 19 16:57:59 gotta do some reading on that stuff Feb 19 16:59:03 http://legiscan.com/IL/bill/SB1614 Feb 19 17:01:10 Hi all, not a happy bunny today Feb 19 17:01:21 hardware issue on my main N900 Feb 19 17:01:53 :( Feb 19 17:02:04 musb port, modem or something else? Feb 19 17:02:27 sixwheeledbeast: thanks for wiki edit. What's your hw problem? May we help? Feb 19 17:03:20 DocScrutinizer05: No problems Feb 19 17:03:30 well... Feb 19 17:04:03 it's started this morning using opera and screen went black Feb 19 17:04:33 after a reboot the picture is grainy and jumpy Feb 19 17:04:56 with horizontal fuzzy lines Feb 19 17:05:05 ew, sgx failure Feb 19 17:05:07 yay Feb 19 17:05:11 it's usually not permanent though Feb 19 17:05:26 just finish work going to start checking it out now. Feb 19 17:05:33 please *immediately* configure your AV-out for usage with your TV Feb 19 17:05:36 and check Feb 19 17:05:53 just this second doing that Feb 19 17:06:15 also check if sliding kbd in/out changes the screen's atrifacts Feb 19 17:07:04 tv-out seems ok, sliding keyboard and power key stops the fuzzyness for a second Feb 19 17:07:14 eeeew Feb 19 17:07:41 sounds like flat plastic cable / connector defective Feb 19 17:07:54 reboot and see if it fixes stuff Feb 19 17:08:18 if feasible without touching device prior/during reboot Feb 19 17:08:24 so have they released a sailfish/jolla image for N9/50 yet? it's frustrating cause they use that device for all their demos and yet there is no image for us to use T_T Feb 19 17:08:52 rm_work: yeah :-/ Feb 19 17:09:25 on reboot nokia logo is perfect for 2 seconds and then does fuzzy Feb 19 17:10:06 YAY Feb 19 17:10:20 that's clearly hw defect then Feb 19 17:10:30 :´( Feb 19 17:10:41 why were you happy Feb 19 17:11:13 DocScrutinizer05: could it be just a partial disconnection? Feb 19 17:11:19 yes Feb 19 17:11:29 B2B-connector loose Feb 19 17:11:35 or broken Feb 19 17:11:45 or framebuffer issue in SoC Feb 19 17:11:52 DSP, whatnot Feb 19 17:11:53 is it fixable and were do I start first, doing a backup via tv out now. Feb 19 17:12:07 hm, does backupmenu enable the tvout? Feb 19 17:12:19 start with carefully disassembling... Feb 19 17:12:21 err Feb 19 17:12:33 normal backup not backupmenu Feb 19 17:12:49 contacts are the most important tbh Feb 19 17:13:14 i have nearly everything on uSD anywho Feb 19 17:13:19 start with a 3cm wide trip of plain paper *carefully* pushing it in between kbd and display from open kbd side Feb 19 17:13:35 gently touching the flat cable Feb 19 17:14:00 strip* Feb 19 17:14:06 stripe? Feb 19 17:14:50 sixwheeledbeast: overclocked/undervolted? Feb 19 17:15:09 nope 125-600 kp50 Feb 19 17:15:16 sr 1&2 Feb 19 17:17:51 paper cause completely black screen but tv-out ok Feb 19 17:18:02 that good :) Feb 19 17:18:18 hopefully loose ribbon? Feb 19 17:28:02 vi____, ping Feb 19 17:28:12 * Estel_ is also interested about sixwheeledbeast's problem Feb 19 17:28:19 hm, as vi____ is absent - I have problem with xbindkeys, that doesn't want to work via /etc/event.d/ - I want to run it as *user*, on every boot Feb 19 17:28:25 once, vi told me a way by editing "some file" somewhere to include it. I did it on my main device, and completely forget how to achieve it Feb 19 17:28:45 interested? Feb 19 17:28:51 any ideas, how to "properly" run thing as user on every boot? Feb 19 17:28:54 yea, what happened Feb 19 17:29:01 scrollback? Feb 19 17:29:04 maybe we could help somehow Feb 19 17:29:08 sorry, got dc'ed Feb 19 17:29:16 ok Feb 19 17:30:53 horizional grainy lines on screen, tv-out ok Feb 19 17:31:33 now poking with piece of paper has made the screen black but backlight on Feb 19 17:31:36 tv-out ok Feb 19 17:32:07 Estel_ ^^^ Feb 19 17:32:27 just went through chanlog Feb 19 17:32:37 k Feb 19 17:32:44 I would bet on flex cable damaged over borked SoC/DSP Feb 19 17:33:10 I hope, damaged over loose? Feb 19 17:33:16 I don't exactly get what DocScrutinizer05 meant to achieve with that paper - if he wasn't talking about disconnecting flex gently Feb 19 17:33:19 during disassembly Feb 19 17:33:48 lose is quite impossible, but who knows, still no idea why piece of paper over normal dissasembly and reconnecting Feb 19 17:34:09 I would be afraid of cutting flex with that paper, if it's too sharp (really can happen!) Feb 19 17:34:18 to diagnose before dissammesbly Feb 19 17:34:24 ah Feb 19 17:34:36 disassembly = 2 minutes ;) Feb 19 17:34:38 anyway Feb 19 17:34:40 is flex *that* weak? :s Feb 19 17:34:51 s/dissammesbly/disassembly Feb 19 17:35:13 best option would be to conenct another screen module (with own flex) to filter out things on motherboard, but I suppose you don't have few modules around like me Feb 19 17:35:30 nope Feb 19 17:35:32 kerio, most of the times it isn't, but in some circumstances... Feb 19 17:35:54 I have seen flex 50% cut via paper Feb 19 17:36:04 guy used name card, though Feb 19 17:36:23 (paper one) , but little harder than your regular A4 xero paper) Feb 19 17:36:33 s/harder/thicker/ Feb 19 17:36:33 Estel_ meant: (paper one) , but little thicker than your regular A4 xero paper) Feb 19 17:36:37 but just a little Feb 19 17:37:03 sixwheeledbeast, no friends/family with N900 to swap modules for a second? Feb 19 17:37:16 this one hasn't been apart yet, I have two n900's Feb 19 17:37:23 w00t? Feb 19 17:37:30 then take module from 2nd one Feb 19 17:37:37 and attach it to "broken" one Feb 19 17:37:41 (screen module) Feb 19 17:37:54 it's just 6 screws and flex connector Feb 19 17:38:09 the other is working so not for parts Feb 19 17:38:13 be carefull with attaching flex connector, can be tricky if not done before Feb 19 17:38:14 ideally Feb 19 17:38:18 just to diagnose Feb 19 17:38:35 are they sourcable? Feb 19 17:38:37 attaching it's screen module to "broken" one for test won't damage working one Feb 19 17:39:16 well, other options is to buy new flex and go through pita of replacing it on screen module Feb 19 17:39:37 with possibility to get no results, if it's fault on MoBo, after all Feb 19 17:39:52 I would for sure swap screen module between 2 N900, to diagnose Feb 19 17:40:01 fastest and most safe method Feb 19 17:40:07 oh, i thought the ribbon was replacable on it's own Feb 19 17:40:15 it is, somehow Feb 19 17:40:30 but you need to dissasemble screen module too. Not undoable, not very hard Feb 19 17:40:40 just harder than diagnosing via replacing whole module Feb 19 17:40:50 screen module got 6 regular screws Feb 19 17:41:00 i see Feb 19 17:41:07 two of them require slider to be positioned at the middle, to be reachable Feb 19 17:41:35 i have had one apart before 6 month or more ago to do uUSB Feb 19 17:41:39 (some people fail to notice them, and only take out 4 screws, then wonder why it doesn't want to get opened) Feb 19 17:42:25 well, just swap those modules and check - if "broken" one works with new module, and "working" one got same problems, then you an be sure it's flex Feb 19 17:42:36 I have seen simillar results due to borked flex Feb 19 17:43:04 are there replacements for the flex? Feb 19 17:43:06 but there is always possibility that it's hardware on MoBo in your case (I doubt it, but can't be sure without testing) Feb 19 17:43:13 sure Feb 19 17:43:22 although more expensive that they should be Feb 19 17:43:51 still, glad that we have chinesee copying it, considering how niche N900 is Feb 19 17:44:34 so, any ideas how to run thing as "user" on every device boot? Feb 19 17:44:42 /etc/event.d/ run things as root... Feb 19 17:47:07 I can't belive no one else tried running things as user automatically on boot? Feb 19 17:47:46 sixwheeledbeast: yes, I second Estel_ on his rationale about diagnosing Feb 19 17:48:20 DocScrutinizer05, btw i wasn't criticising your idea about paper (unless someone manage to cut ribbon), just wondering what it was for? curiosity Feb 19 17:48:44 will have a go asap, thanks all :) Feb 19 17:48:45 to test if B2B connector has a wonky contact Feb 19 17:48:46 moving flex to check if it makes artifacts to fluctuate? Feb 19 17:48:57 yep Feb 19 17:49:02 * Estel_ nods Feb 19 17:49:07 *gently* Feb 19 17:49:09 sixwheeledbeast, np, yw Feb 19 17:49:17 with *thin* (normal) paper Feb 19 17:49:49 not for my nerves, I'm little over-reactive when it comes to that flex Feb 19 17:49:58 torn it apart once, during normal assembly Feb 19 17:50:13 it's a bitch Feb 19 17:50:24 without any valid reason, btw, it just decided to die Feb 19 17:50:38 but it wouldn't be an N900 without it Feb 19 17:51:03 yea, I "patented" way to connect it saftly, since - require quite acrobatic grip of N900 and unnatached module between fingers at correct angle Feb 19 17:51:04 once they got a tiny crack, they go RAPP and off it is Feb 19 17:51:23 allowing connection via fingers of 2nd hand, no tools required and no pressure to cable. Loooks funny, though Feb 19 17:52:03 and gives your arms/wrists aches Feb 19 17:52:07 s/saftly/safely/ Feb 19 17:52:11 kinda :P Feb 19 17:52:17 anyway no other way to plug it in Feb 19 17:53:03 my first one I thought I will *never* again get it plugged Feb 19 17:55:30 meanwhile I think I usually can plug that critter in as little as 5 minutes Feb 19 17:56:29 you have to know it doesn't take much pressure if it fits snugly Feb 19 17:56:47 hehe, btw, my today's "exercise" - disassembling N900 in moving train (without table) Feb 19 17:57:01 (needed to check smth re replacement body) Feb 19 17:59:55 I guess insertion force for that B2B-con is ~50g Feb 19 18:00:31 so don't push it too hard to make it snap in, it will probably break when you do Feb 19 18:01:15 * DocScrutinizer05 curses Nokia EE for that particular design Feb 19 18:08:41 DocScrutinizer05: why couldn't they use a stronger cable? Feb 19 18:09:21 technical reasons Feb 19 18:09:24 sillt question, why would terminal application stop the fuzzy screen? Feb 19 18:09:31 s/sillt/silly Feb 19 18:09:40 because it's mostly black? Feb 19 18:09:44 shouldn't Feb 19 18:09:49 i was thinking that Feb 19 18:09:56 unless, yeah, black maybe Feb 19 18:10:26 the more black on the screen the less fuzziness Feb 19 18:10:28 less crosstalk between lines Feb 19 18:15:50 sixwheeledbeast, not insisting, as it's your choice after all, but testing it via swapping screen modules would take you ~5 minutes to go there and back again Feb 19 18:16:03 instead of all that guessworking Feb 19 18:17:07 I am just backing up my devices and I open terminal to check something Feb 19 18:17:21 * Estel_ nods Feb 19 18:17:43 make video of fuziness and advertise it as new theme utilising shaders Feb 19 18:17:57 I will be doing above tomorrow evening when I am not on call Feb 19 18:18:11 and video effects rendered on 3D surfaces ;) Feb 19 18:18:30 BTW I once had idea for small prank Feb 19 18:19:04 during messing with VNC and most effective server settings, I got ones, that made Witcher 2 almost-playable on N900, through VNC Feb 19 18:19:16 no problem with dialogues and small fights Feb 19 18:19:46 even resolution was matching N900's one (RED engine is pretty versality, and runs this modern game pretty well on 800x480) Feb 19 18:20:05 so, I though about recording video of "playingn witcher 2 on N900 Feb 19 18:20:32 write in description about running it through wine in optimized mode, and no sound + little framedrops due to lack of optimizations yet Feb 19 18:20:40 and throsw it at android/apple kids Feb 19 18:20:55 s/throsw/throw/ Feb 19 18:20:56 Estel_ meant: and throw it at android/apple kids Feb 19 18:21:45 or on TMO on 1st april ;) Feb 19 18:22:56 well, I see that others doesn't see it as funny as I thought :( Feb 19 18:25:36 gimme a port of the cube2 engine to GLES instead Feb 19 18:29:06 question:- if restoring a backup from the default app, does it remember package versions? Feb 19 18:29:22 or will it install the latest ie devel version Feb 19 18:29:36 if devel repo enabled that is Feb 19 18:29:45 i think it's just a package list Feb 19 18:30:24 so it will pull the latest version then Feb 19 18:33:21 why not backupmenu? Feb 19 18:33:28 default backup app is PITA Feb 19 18:44:29 have no trouble with it Feb 19 18:45:35 default backup has a list of apps and repos to re-install Feb 19 18:45:40 no versions Feb 19 18:45:48 but a per-app repo iirc Feb 19 18:46:32 which doesn't mean it will install tha app from that particular repo if a "better2 repo got enabled by another app to restore Feb 19 18:46:41 all disclaimer "IIRC" Feb 19 18:47:59 anyway, no versions. That I'm rather sure about Feb 19 18:48:35 I think HAM has no concept of versions at all Feb 19 18:49:27 except for dependencies which get handled by apt anyway Feb 19 18:49:36 oh apt <3 Feb 19 18:49:48 ta, don't fancy installing a load of unstable versions of apps by accident. Feb 19 18:50:23 * kerio found extras/extras-testing/extras-devel to be very similar to debian stable/testing/unstable Feb 19 18:52:33 dang, KVM on a really fast machine is soooo sweet and convenient Feb 19 18:52:53 is it the first über-machine you've used in a while? Feb 19 18:53:03 boot a virtual machine with a full KDE in like 10s Feb 19 18:53:25 install a new system from DVD in less than 5 minutes Feb 19 18:53:31 from DVD or from "DVD"? Feb 19 18:53:36 because i fail to believe the former Feb 19 18:53:39 clone VMs in less than 10s Feb 19 18:54:02 from a commercial DVD made of plycarbonate Feb 19 18:54:25 damn, i'm more impressed by the read speed rather than the cpu speed Feb 19 18:55:00 kerio: you probably also would doubt i'm able to clone that 8GB VM in a few seconds Feb 19 18:55:19 DocScrutinizer05: no, that's fairly reasonable Feb 19 18:55:25 you can't boot that fast from dbd Feb 19 18:55:26 dvd Feb 19 18:55:38 I didn't boot from DVD Feb 19 18:55:38 (and it's not really 8gb, kvm is smart enough to only save the memory pages that were used :) ) Feb 19 18:55:40 dvd's have seek time measured in years Feb 19 18:55:44 jacekowski: indeed Feb 19 18:55:55 it's the optical media speed that i can't believe Feb 19 18:56:35 the optical media got read in (40x?) read ahead, and no seak time at all i guess Feb 19 18:56:49 so installation went thru in <5min Feb 19 18:56:58 hm, maybe opensuse optimizes dvd installs like mad Feb 19 18:57:06 they do Feb 19 18:57:10 they use images Feb 19 18:57:20 and then apply deltas only Feb 19 18:57:30 for standard install delta is zarro Feb 19 18:57:57 well that's cheating :P Feb 19 18:58:04 ;-P Feb 19 18:58:10 *good* cheating Feb 19 18:58:15 and besides, you were able to clone a VM in less than 10 seconds Feb 19 18:58:46 doing pretty much the same from dvd took 5 minutes Feb 19 18:58:58 let optical media die Feb 19 18:59:01 we have the technology! Feb 19 19:50:35 I indeed wonder what's cheaper: a DVD or a 8GB uSD Feb 19 19:50:41 When I run mutt in the terminal, it returns an error in .muttrc saying "set: unknown command". Apart from that it seems to work as expected. What could be causing this? Feb 19 19:52:00 did you have speedpatch installed? I recall a very old bug from that being uninstalled that left such messages as a side effect. Feb 19 19:52:21 * DocScrutinizer05 patents r/o uSD with mask coded fixed content Feb 19 19:52:58 EEEEK speedpatch Feb 19 19:53:03 ~speedpatch Feb 19 19:53:03 hmm... speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch] Feb 19 19:53:52 ~crappatch Feb 19 19:53:52 well, speedpatch is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1012405#post1012405 >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch] Feb 19 19:53:55 DocScrutinizer05: more importantly, is a dvd more cheap, or is 8gb on your hd cheaper? Feb 19 19:54:30 kerio: how would a magazine send me a 8GB slice of my own HDD? Feb 19 19:55:22 eyescream: you run mutt on n900? Feb 19 19:55:25 depends. HD go bad. DVD do too, but are easier to protect long term. uSD, even easier. :) Feb 19 19:55:34 DocScrutinizer05: srsly, get a better adsl >:c Feb 19 19:55:58 n900-dk: I'm trying to, yes. Feb 19 19:56:01 n900-dk: i do as well. :P Feb 19 19:56:09 * Woody14619 loved mutt, back in the 90s. Feb 19 19:56:19 I still do. Feb 19 19:56:25 Why? Feb 19 19:56:26 Sicelo: Do you get an error saying "set: unknown command" by chance? Feb 19 19:56:44 n900-dk: Because mutt is awesome and modest isn't. Feb 19 19:56:48 Now adays though, I'm more on squirelmail and openexchange. Just more accessable. Feb 19 19:56:56 for my imap mailboxes, sometimes Modest 'refuses' to show some folders. mutt shows all, consistently Feb 19 19:56:56 hmm Feb 19 19:57:02 eyescream: no Feb 19 19:57:37 modest isn't that bad really... Never had issues with it missing IMAP folders. But then I also have it setup to archive off-line. So it's more like POP than IMAP. Feb 19 19:57:40 gmail via web works perfect for me Feb 19 19:58:07 Sicelo: I see. I found someone else with the same issue, but no solution. It seems to work just fine, though. Feb 19 19:58:45 n900-dk: I dislike web interfaces and google. Feb 19 19:58:50 Woody14619: it's ok, yes. but yeah, this is a real issue. it's ok with gmail, etc.. but there's one provider for which i can only see inbox, even though imap is set. mutt opens all folders for same provider Feb 19 19:59:28 eyescream: maybe you've set 'exotic' options? Feb 19 19:59:30 Sounds like a provider issue to me. Some providers only show Inbox externally to prevent long-wait syncs. Feb 19 19:59:36 eyescream: just because it's google? Feb 19 19:59:56 Woody14619: mutt displays all, on same device, same connection Feb 19 20:00:08 Sicelo: I doubt it. It fails on line 1 with "set: unknown command", but it does seem to set all the folders. Feb 19 20:00:16 Hmm.. May be how they mark which are selectable or not. Feb 19 20:00:40 n900-dk: Because of their policies, yes. I don't use google, either. Feb 19 20:00:50 maybe it's Modest that misses such Feb 19 20:01:16 IF you get a chance, may be worth pointing a full IMAP client at it, like squirel mail. It shows which boxes are marked for use and which are not. Some just grab all, reguardless of marking (mutt) while others honor markings. Feb 19 20:01:36 ok. will do. Feb 19 20:01:46 So it may be modest is honoring those box marks, and not getting them, where mutt is just grabbing everything. Feb 19 20:02:09 (Another reason I like squirlmail.. even if it's just to setup IMAP options sometimes.) Feb 19 20:02:54 * Sicelo ppens easy-deb.. hope i have a full imap client there Feb 19 20:02:56 I know modest obeys those, as I have two work folders that I specifically don't sync, and have forwarding rules for "low priority" e-mail. Feb 19 20:04:33 maybe for next iteration of modest, a menu could be provided to select/subscribe to folders Feb 19 20:04:36 :) Feb 19 20:04:51 .oO(So my n900 isn't going off all night from the night crew sending mail about plants and other such stupid things...) Feb 19 20:05:08 That would be nice actually. It's one of the few things modest doesn't provide. Feb 19 20:05:51 Woody14619: imap-idle :( Feb 19 20:05:57 But since it obeys markings, you can actually tell the provider to mark it as non-subscribed and modest will follow it. So, it's half way there. Feb 19 20:05:59 Woody14619: alarmed can change profiles on a schedule Feb 19 20:06:05 While I'm at it.. Is there a way to make Modest give notifications for all subfolders within inbox? Feb 19 20:06:29 Woody14619: however if you want people to be able to wake you with a phone call that is less useful Feb 19 20:06:34 It should automaticly if they're subscribed and have new content. Feb 19 20:06:57 Yeah... That's the issue. I need to know if something catches on fire... so... I just don't care about the plants. :) Feb 19 20:07:09 Woody14619: They are subscribed (and thus show up), but no joy on the notifications. Feb 19 20:07:23 Set fire to the plants all you want... so long as they're not near the servers... Feb 19 20:07:41 I only get notifications for the main inbox. Feb 19 20:08:36 that's off eyescteam, as I get notifications about side boxes all the time. Though I don't have them off the Inbox. I have them as separate side folders. Maybe modest only informs about top-level boxes? Most of mine are top-level execpt my archives. Feb 19 20:09:01 Would have to test that to see if it's the case... Feb 19 20:09:14 If so, I'd call that a bug/feature. :) Feb 19 20:09:34 i can confirm eyescream's point. Feb 19 20:11:02 Interesting to know. Maybe I'll move those folders and rules to be in my Inbox then, so I can not get beeped on them, but still be able to see/read them if I want to remotely. ;) Feb 19 20:11:25 One mans bug is another mans feature. ;) Feb 19 20:12:24 Speaking of.. work beacons.... later. :) Feb 19 20:12:47 guys - https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/modest/merge_requests/13 Feb 19 20:13:24 freemangordon: what's there? Feb 19 20:13:40 freemangordon: Thanks for the input. Feb 19 20:13:43 "Notifications for new messages in all folders: Feb 19 20:13:56 cool. Feb 19 20:14:11 btw, what's the blocker with imap-idle? Feb 19 20:14:19 When can we expect that to be included by default? Feb 19 20:14:44 eyescream: repo access Feb 19 20:15:00 Sicelo: hmm? Feb 19 20:15:34 i mean in modest.. i personally do miss it Feb 19 20:15:48 freemangordon: I don't follow. Could you please elaborate? Feb 19 20:16:30 Sicelo: I got that for modest. Missed the "blocker" part. There is a patch in CSSU, but disabled or what? Feb 19 20:17:05 eyescream: merlin1991 needs access to CSSU repos on maemo.org Feb 19 20:17:26 imap idle? hmm, i'm on cssu stable. is it on testing only? Feb 19 20:17:27 to be able to push a new update Feb 19 20:17:45 Sicelo: NFC, that is what I am asking for :) Feb 19 20:18:22 lol. asking from me? it's definitely not there in Stable CSSU. there's only Offline IMAP Feb 19 20:18:24 Sicelo: is that "imap offline folders"? Feb 19 20:18:49 anyone found a way to speed up vnc connection to n900? screen refresh is quite slow for me :/ Feb 19 20:19:00 freemangordon: I see. I guess that could be.. whenever. Feb 19 20:20:46 there's an "Enable offline IMAP support for this account" in the settings of each account Feb 19 20:21:48 * freemangordon smells a wizard's fight :D Feb 19 20:21:58 Sicelo: hmm, what is that supposed to do? Feb 19 20:22:15 oh, wait Feb 19 20:22:26 this is offline storage Feb 19 20:22:35 don't know, heh. but i always thought it saves messages on device Feb 19 20:23:07 Sicelo: yes. and it has a bug that it stores them in /home/user IIRC Feb 19 20:23:34 well, not exactly bug, but still Feb 19 20:24:40 the day we get imap-idle, ;-) Feb 19 20:26:55 Is here someone who wants to test keepassx v2.0.3 alpha on n900? :) Feb 19 20:27:14 luf: did you fix the dialog bug? Feb 19 20:27:19 I'm too lazy to write in on TMO :( Feb 19 20:27:45 freemangordon: yes and I created merge request but no response yet Feb 19 20:28:32 where are maemo applications supposed to keep user data? Feb 19 20:28:34 MyDocs? Feb 19 20:28:41 or is ~ ok too? Feb 19 20:28:51 kerio: I guess it depends Feb 19 20:29:23 luf: could you change that to lastpass pls ;) Feb 19 20:29:31 freemangordon: preferences Feb 19 20:29:41 in ~/ Feb 19 20:29:49 n900-dk: no idea what is lastpass ;) Feb 19 20:29:51 /home isn't reset when flashing just COMBINED, right? Feb 19 20:30:04 iirc yes Feb 19 20:30:15 yes is ambiguous there! :( Feb 19 20:30:16 https://lastpass.com/ Feb 19 20:30:26 yes, it is not reset Feb 19 20:31:17 kerio: the problem with modest keeping the data in ~/ is the size of ~/ Feb 19 20:31:41 so it can easily fill it in case of big imap folder Feb 19 20:32:13 if you move emails to MyDocs do not forget to remove that new folder from tracker Feb 19 20:32:38 good point, heh. :P Feb 19 20:32:48 Pali: I guess this is not possible because of USB storage mode Feb 19 20:33:15 so moving mails is not possible :-) Feb 19 20:33:37 n900-dk: I don't use it so I'm not interested in ... Feb 19 20:33:46 Pali: I was talking about offline imap Feb 19 20:34:12 hmm, and where are pop3 mails stored? Feb 19 20:35:39 n900-dk: I don't like to store my passwords (even encrypted) somewhere in the internet. Feb 19 20:36:04 freemangordon, in /home/user too Feb 19 20:36:34 well, it seems like WONTFIX then :) Feb 19 20:37:10 what directory under /home/user/ ? Feb 19 20:37:29 "/home/user/.modest/" Feb 19 20:41:36 luf: I understand - I find it quite nice and very convenient Feb 19 20:43:25 freemangordon, I hope this patch has a setting :) If every mail to any of the ML's I'm subscribed to fires a notification I'll go mad Feb 19 20:43:50 qwazix: ask Pali :D Feb 19 20:44:44 :nod: Feb 19 20:44:45 qwazix: no settings implemented yet, but it could be simple Feb 19 20:45:32 qwazix: though I guess it will remain the same as it now - you get "group" notifications Feb 19 20:45:45 I suppose that "skip the inbox" imap filter is used by many people to filter ML's so I think I shouldn't be alone Feb 19 21:53:47 Ok I fight with my laziness and I created new thread on TMO for keepassx v2 :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1323931 Feb 19 21:56:18 Keep Ass X 2: Ass Harder Feb 19 22:52:32 what would be the right channel to talk about n9/harmattan stuff? Feb 19 22:53:01 #harmattan or #n9 Feb 19 22:53:03 sorry, just read the channel topic. of course its #harmattan Feb 19 22:53:31 just got myself one of the last n9 available ;) Feb 19 23:29:12 What other hardware will support it? Feb 20 01:00:44 it? Feb 20 01:04:46 [sidenote] Tue, 19.02.2013 23:01 h SCHKEUDITZ, Germany - Arrived at sort facility in SCHKEUDITZ Feb 20 02:07:47 [sidenote] Wed, 20.02.2013 01:40 h SCHKEUDITZ, Germany - Processed at SCHKEUDITZ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 20 02:59:58 2013