**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 23 02:59:58 2013
Feb 23 03:42:08 <iluminator105> n900 charging area just came out what do i do to fix it
Feb 23 03:42:52 <nox-> ~usbfix
Feb 23 03:42:54 <infobot> i guess usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)
Feb 23 04:01:14 <Luke-Jr> iluminator105: I don't think you can fix it after it breaks
Feb 23 04:57:03 <iluminator105> Luke-Jr, are you sure
Feb 23 04:57:09 <Luke-Jr> no
Feb 23 04:57:33 <iluminator105> online i says you can solder it
Feb 23 04:57:42 <iluminator105> it*
Feb 23 05:14:50 <iluminator105> who says usbunit on n900 can be replaced say yay who says it cant be replaced say nay and we will tally the total yay and nay, i motion a second on this motion
Feb 23 05:17:01 <Hurrian> yay.
Feb 23 05:17:51 <Hurrian> but it is a bitch to resolder though, if you haven't done something that small before.
Feb 23 05:18:31 <iluminator105> yea i much take it much local place not mess with it let the pros handle it
Feb 23 05:18:42 <iluminator105> must*
Feb 23 10:27:44 <WizardNumberNext> ~ping
Feb 23 10:27:45 <infobot> ~pong
Feb 23 12:54:54 <kerio> WizardNumberNext: duuuuuuude
Feb 23 12:54:57 <kerio> stahp
Feb 23 12:55:14 <WizardNumberNext> sorry, I didn't realized I am logged here
Feb 23 12:55:23 <WizardNumberNext> getting out for sec
Feb 23 13:17:01 <WizardNumberNext> sorry for mess. Looks like I didn't wake up properly yet. Ther's no other explaination for lack of understanding of quite clear text
Feb 23 13:24:38 <WizardNoNext-PC> which revision of A8 is n900 omap?
Feb 23 13:35:58 <jacekowski> it's just "A8"
Feb 23 13:36:03 <jacekowski> there is no revisions or anything
Feb 23 13:47:27 <WizardNoNext-PC> jacekowski: go to arm documetation - you will see how many revisions of A8 are on market
Feb 23 13:48:47 <WizardNoNext-PC> r3p2, r3p1, r3p0, r2p3, r2p2, r2p1, r2p0, r1p1
Feb 23 13:49:04 <WizardNoNext-PC> it have to be one of them
Feb 23 13:56:32 <Estel_> ~mirrors
Feb 23 13:56:32 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error
Feb 23 13:57:00 <Estel_> erm, and for enabling cssu-testing as suplement to cssu-thumb?
Feb 23 13:57:13 <WizardNoNext-PC> how is going with hashsums anyway? Do anybody is fixing it?
Feb 23 13:57:16 <Estel_> kerio,  ping :P
Feb 23 13:57:27 <kerio> pong?
Feb 23 13:57:33 <Estel_> yea, merlin1991 is looking at it afaik, or plan to
Feb 23 13:57:39 <Estel_> kerio, you're spec of repos info :P
Feb 23 13:57:53 <Estel_> situation - device of family member got cssu-thumb in outdated state
Feb 23 13:57:59 <Estel_> cssu-thumb repo is working OK
Feb 23 13:58:08 <Estel_> question: which mirror is to be used to cssu-testing
Feb 23 13:58:22 <Estel_> for installing things that are not thumbified yet
Feb 23 13:58:23 <kerio> yeah, community-testing on rmo is outdated a bit
Feb 23 13:58:42 <Estel_> noticed that ;)
Feb 23 13:58:56 <kerio> Estel_: i assume that domain issues aren't going to be issues, in your case? :)
Feb 23 13:59:02 <Estel_> yep.
Feb 23 13:59:15 <kerio> community-testing.merlin1991.at
Feb 23 13:59:22 <Estel_> thanks a lot
Feb 23 13:59:26 <kerio> it's a much better repo, anyway
Feb 23 13:59:46 <kerio> only the latest version of things, pdiff support
Feb 23 14:00:01 <kerio> .bz2 things
Feb 23 14:00:25 <Estel_> i wonder why it can't become the case for rmo?
Feb 23 14:00:45 <kerio> well i'm not sure about not having old versions
Feb 23 14:01:12 <kerio> but i assume that merlin1991 will eventually upgrade the repos :)
Feb 23 14:01:40 <Estel_> I'm just talking about pdiff
Feb 23 14:01:42 <Estel_> bz2
Feb 23 14:01:43 <Estel_> etc
Feb 23 14:01:49 <Estel_> older versions must prevail
Feb 23 14:01:50 <kerio> merlin1991: y u no pdiff
Feb 23 14:01:57 <kerio> *persist
Feb 23 14:02:16 <Estel_> what will we do, if marmistrz decide to "upgrade" cryptsetup again
Feb 23 14:02:29 <kerio> haha
Feb 23 14:02:39 <WizardNoNext-PC> I have strange problem with wi-fi connection. if I would get disconnected for ANY reason (even manual disconnection on N900 itself) I cannot connect back to same network. Any suggestions?
Feb 23 14:02:47 <kerio> Estel_: so 2:1.0.7-12maemo0 isn't good?
Feb 23 14:02:55 <Estel_> not funny, as I'm still using local version when I need to reinstall it - even before repo migration fail
Feb 23 14:03:01 <Estel_> kerio,  smth was fucked there
Feb 23 14:03:05 <Estel_> can't recall what
Feb 23 14:03:25 <Estel_> WizardNoNext-PC,  too less data
Feb 23 14:03:31 <Estel_> more details pls.
Feb 23 14:03:36 <kerio> *too little
Feb 23 14:03:46 <Estel_> kerio, sure
Feb 23 14:04:04 <Estel_> what a lame grammar from my side it was, said yoda
Feb 23 14:04:28 <WizardNoNext-PC> simply, if wi-fi wouls be disconnected, I can try to connect endlessly, but N900 even don't try to connect - does nothing.
Feb 23 14:04:29 <kerio> "yoda said", surely :P
Feb 23 14:04:43 <kerio> WizardNoNext-PC: anything in dmesg?
Feb 23 14:04:53 <kerio> or syslog
Feb 23 14:05:48 <Estel_> WizardNoNext-PC,  define nothing
Feb 23 14:06:10 <Estel_> does wifi icon blinks
Feb 23 14:06:12 <Estel_> or what
Feb 23 14:06:20 <Estel_> what do you use for enabling and disabling wifi
Feb 23 14:06:24 <Estel_> what dmesg or syslog say
Feb 23 14:06:49 <kerio> Estel_: can't marmistrz fix it?
Feb 23 14:06:59 <WizardNoNext-PC> I have two private wi-fi networks - one is Cloud7 and other is Cloud7.org (stronger transciver and +5dBi antenna). Usually I use Cloud7.org. As soon as it is disconnected I cannot force N900 to try to connect. I click and nothing happens. But if I would try to connect to Cloud7 instead - no problem
Feb 23 14:07:09 <Estel_> kerio, first of all I have no idea, why he upgraded it at all
Feb 23 14:08:02 <Estel_> dmesg or syslog, as nothing specific here
Feb 23 14:09:13 <WizardNoNext-PC> it looks like it tears down NIC after it cannot reconnect. Then when I try to connect it loads firmware, but I have no message about wlan0 being brought up
Feb 23 14:10:18 <WizardNoNext-PC> yeah, every time same thing. Firmware being loaded, but interface isn't brought up
Feb 23 14:10:21 <Estel_> do you use any program for disabling wifi? at all, not only during given situation
Feb 23 14:10:29 <Estel_> also, don't assume, just zerobin output
Feb 23 14:10:50 <WizardNoNext-PC> I do not disable wifi as long as I am home
Feb 23 14:11:17 <WizardNoNext-PC> give me sec, I would give you those 3 or 4 lines
Feb 23 14:11:23 <Estel_> and when you do, how do you disable it
Feb 23 14:11:27 <WizardNoNext-PC> need to get usb-network up
Feb 23 14:11:54 <Estel_> kerio, what was that factoid with bme replacement links?
Feb 23 14:12:03 <kerio> idk
Feb 23 14:12:06 <kerio> ~pali
Feb 23 14:12:07 <infobot> [pali] http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/
Feb 23 14:12:12 <Estel_> oh
Feb 23 14:12:32 <kerio> http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/
Feb 23 14:12:34 <kerio> there you go
Feb 23 14:12:43 <kerio> i always have to do like three tries
Feb 23 14:12:46 <kerio> ~bme-replacement
Feb 23 14:13:21 <WizardNoNext-PC> [14044.814331] wl1251: 151 tx blocks at 0x3b788, 35 rx blocks at 0x3a780
Feb 23 14:13:22 <WizardNoNext-PC> [14044.830017] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7)
Feb 23 14:13:24 <WizardNoNext-PC> [14044.986999] ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready
Feb 23 14:13:25 <WizardNoNext-PC> [14050.400085] wl1251: down
Feb 23 14:13:27 <WizardNoNext-PC> N
Feb 23 14:13:35 <kerio> infobot: #maemo bme-replacement is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/
Feb 23 14:13:35 <infobot> kerio: okay
Feb 23 14:21:26 <WizardNoNext-PC> strange thing is it is trying to connect to some AP with strange name - 8 hexadecimal chars
Feb 23 14:21:38 <WizardNoNext-PC> and in process this name is changing
Feb 23 14:21:44 <WizardNoNext-PC> what the hell
Feb 23 14:27:24 <WizardNoNext-PC> trial to connect to other network failed as well, but at least icon is flashing, while I am trying to get back on same network icon doesn't change. Output in dmesg and syslog are same for both cases
Feb 23 14:41:44 <WizardNoNext-PC> normal connect - first trial - success - http://pastebin.com/QZtxSp4i
Feb 23 14:49:59 <WizardNoNext-PC> syslog here http://pastebin.com/16hS532G
Feb 23 14:50:03 <WizardNoNext-PC> more to come
Feb 23 14:57:40 <Estel_> ~bme-replacement
Feb 23 14:57:40 <infobot> bme-replacement is, like, http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/
Feb 23 14:58:19 <Pali> infobot: bme-replacement is also https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement
Feb 23 14:58:19 <infobot> Pali: okay
Feb 23 15:03:11 <Estel_> MartinK_N9_,  ping
Feb 23 15:04:06 <Estel_> I've tested thoroughly modrana with user agent that mimics firefox one (decided to not use chrome one, in case google inserted some hooks there, that would allow identyfiying us as false user agent)
Feb 23 15:04:21 <Estel_> it *seems* that it's much easier to download large batch of data now
Feb 23 15:04:32 <Estel_> I've tested it for more than two weeks, since our last conversation
Feb 23 15:04:54 <Estel_> I've never got tempban from google, and downloaded things like batches of 2K satellite tiles at once
Feb 23 15:05:06 <Estel_> with *ZERO* failed downloads
Feb 23 15:05:29 <Estel_> also, it may be worth, to try separating download threadsa between few google's "mirrors"
Feb 23 15:05:34 <Estel_> you know, numbers in url
Feb 23 15:06:11 <Estel_> and even option to throotle (down) download speed, i.e. second or more of delays between every 9 tiles or so
Feb 23 15:06:20 <Estel_> of course as just option, not default method
Feb 23 15:06:31 <Estel_> this makes modrana *much* less detectable as non-browser
Feb 23 15:13:34 <jargon> Is the extras repo back?
Feb 23 15:17:55 <kerio> yes
Feb 23 15:24:29 <MartinK_N9_> Estel_: OK, thanks for the feedback  :-)
Feb 23 15:25:14 <MartinK_N9_> both seems to be doable
Feb 23 15:25:47 <MartinK_N9_> I will let you know once it is in  :-)
Feb 23 15:57:58 <warfare> We are starting with migration, some sites under maemo.org might be a bit slower.. 
Feb 23 15:58:20 <freemangordon> warfare: wish you luck :)
Feb 23 15:58:30 <warfare> freemangordon: Thanks :) 
Feb 23 16:01:30 <MartinK_N9_> good luck !  :-)
Feb 23 16:08:26 <jargon> kerio: thanks
Feb 23 18:35:45 <marcello_NA> hallo
Feb 23 18:36:00 <marcello_NA> there is a way to print on maemo?
Feb 23 18:39:28 <NIN101> I think on tmo there are some threads about CUPS etc.
Feb 23 18:43:35 <marcello_NA> yes but i do not find solutions
Feb 23 18:43:57 <marcello_NA> only strange problems on dependencies
Feb 23 19:29:27 <eccerr0r> argh...so close... python2.3 is too old to build pidgin...
Feb 23 19:29:56 <eccerr0r> (in the sdk)... and even the sdk wants to download from r.m.o... :p
Feb 23 19:32:48 <kerio> there's python2.7 in extras-devel
Feb 23 19:33:18 <eccerr0r> yeah... 2.5 is all I need but "MD5Sum mismatch" is plaguing me :D
Feb 23 19:33:31 <kerio> use extras-devel.merlin1991.at
Feb 23 19:37:11 <eccerr0r> hmm... no i386 bins
Feb 23 19:38:52 <kerio> ah right
Feb 23 19:38:54 <kerio> :(
Feb 23 19:40:30 <eccerr0r> oh well still stoked building gtk hello world :D
Feb 23 19:42:31 <eccerr0r> someone had a configure build log of an older pidgin and it said avahi and meanwhile were found... (then again wtf is meanwhile...)
Feb 23 19:43:22 <eccerr0r> disabled for now... but not having python2.4 made icd/dbus unhappy and those definitely are needed...
Feb 23 19:44:37 <eccerr0r> ah... screw meanwhile (meanwhile.sourceforge.net) I don't need it for my own use...
Feb 23 19:45:52 <eccerr0r> maybe muck with it later...
Feb 23 19:50:25 <eccerr0r> still somewhat silly, the sdk vm image has python2.6 on it... but scratchbox does not...  sigh... one of the reasons why I despise python - it's still not stable (in terms of language and how they're continually adding more features so quickly, rapidly outdating old interpreters.)
Feb 23 19:52:23 <kerio> python 2.4 was released in 2004
Feb 23 19:52:28 <kerio> that's NINE YEARS AGO
Feb 23 19:52:53 <kerio> python 2.6 was released in 2008
Feb 23 19:53:09 <kerio> and it'll still get security fixes until october 2013
Feb 23 19:54:41 <eccerr0r> the SDK DEPENDS on python 2.3...  That's what bothers me.
Feb 23 19:55:31 <eccerr0r> I suspect it's due to supporting the n800, etc., but still, the language changed so much that it breaks it when upgrading
Feb 23 19:59:00 <eccerr0r> and these .3, .4, .6, .7 ... are nothing compared to python3. and 3.1 ... Makes me mad having to install two python interpreters on my netbook.
Feb 23 20:00:13 <kerio> python3 breaks backwards-compatibility, yes
Feb 23 20:00:18 <eccerr0r> oh, and python3.2 is out.
Feb 23 20:01:10 <kerio> 3.3.0 is the current stable
Feb 23 20:01:29 <eccerr0r> even worse... too many versions...
Feb 23 20:01:49 <eccerr0r> lucky that bash4 can still run bash1 scripts.
Feb 23 20:02:47 <kerio> i really don't see why a python3 script that works on 3.0.0 wouldn't work on 3.3.0
Feb 23 20:03:19 <eccerr0r> granted perl5 had issues with perl4 scripts too... but a lot still worked...
Feb 23 20:03:49 <kerio> except that this is more like perl 5 and perl 6
Feb 23 20:03:50 <eccerr0r> I don't know why the SDK is still 2.3
Feb 23 20:04:39 <eccerr0r> there are like 4 copies of python on the sdk...
Feb 23 20:05:07 <eccerr0r> 2.3 is for scratchbox?  2.5-armel and 2.5-i386 for compatibility testing, and 2.6 for ubuntu
Feb 23 20:05:44 <kerio> eccerr0r: apparently it's possible to do without scratchbox
Feb 23 20:06:01 <kerio> download the rootstrap, make it a chroot jail, install compilers there
Feb 23 20:06:53 <eccerr0r> I'm sure it is, but why wasn't the 2.3 copy upgraded? python instability problem... :p
Feb 23 20:07:17 <kerio> scratchbox is a piece of crap
Feb 23 20:07:30 <kerio> and besides, there's no way to update it at the moment
Feb 23 20:07:33 <kerio> scratchbox.org is down
Feb 23 20:09:19 <eccerr0r> not like scratchbox is the only program plagued by python... though I'm glad gentoo/portage is still being updated to take in new python interpreters... but the 3.x jump is apparently still a problem...
Feb 23 20:09:47 <kerio> yes, it's a different language
Feb 23 20:09:52 <kerio> it's also 5 years old
Feb 23 20:10:09 <eccerr0r> I don't even want to know what python4 will look like
Feb 23 20:10:32 <kerio> probably very similar to python 3 and python 2
Feb 23 20:10:34 <kerio> why?
Feb 23 20:10:38 <eccerr0r> imagine if english changed every 5 years such that we would not understand each other in 10 years...
Feb 23 20:11:56 <kerio> english is a natural language
Feb 23 20:12:39 <kerio> and it changed *quite a lot*
Feb 23 20:13:41 <eccerr0r> it has changed but the structure remains the same... mostly nouns and verbs that are added
Feb 23 20:14:18 <kerio> and python's structure is still pretty much identical
Feb 23 20:14:46 <eccerr0r> but backward compatibility broke.
Feb 23 20:14:51 <kerio> yep
Feb 23 20:14:56 <eccerr0r> unacceptable.
Feb 23 20:15:09 <kerio> huh... ok
Feb 23 20:18:02 <eccerr0r> if language changes, it should change gradually... provide simple workarounds if there's something that must change drastically...
Feb 23 20:18:42 <kerio> like all the tiny changes in python2, or the 2to3 converter provided for python3?
Feb 23 20:19:07 <eccerr0r> the tiny changes in python2, why should scripts in 2.3 break under 2.7?
Feb 23 20:20:03 <kerio> the biggest offender is the changed try/except syntax
Feb 23 20:21:55 <kerio> hm, actually maybe not even that
Feb 23 20:22:41 <kerio> ok, the huge change is that you can't raise strings as exceptions, and "with" is not a valid name anymore
Feb 23 20:33:59 <kerio> so... why should scripts in 2.3 break under 2.7?
Feb 23 20:39:10 <sardini> hi
Feb 23 20:47:15 <eccerr0r> if programs in the past were written with these constructs, they would break in 2.7.
Feb 23 20:48:02 <eccerr0r> bad programming style? probably.  but it still breaks... it's a python problem that didn't specify these were "bad" to begin with.
Feb 23 20:50:16 <kerio> are you saying that it's a python problem that decided to add features?
Feb 23 21:06:27 <eccerr0r> no, it's a problem when backward compatibility breaks.
Feb 23 21:11:00 <eccerr0r> well, breaks frequently enough such that you need to keep multiple versions around...
Feb 23 21:11:54 <kerio> except that python 2.3 is NINE YEARS OLD
Feb 23 21:12:29 <eccerr0r> nine years to python 2.7?
Feb 23 21:12:48 <eccerr0r> nine years to python 2._5_ ?
Feb 23 21:12:50 <kerio> seven years to 2.7
Feb 23 21:13:24 <kerio> the OH SO AWFUL compatibility break that you still haven't provided us a sample of happened with python 2.6
Feb 23 21:13:55 <eccerr0r> I just need a good explanation why the SDK has 2.3
Feb 23 21:14:02 <kerio> because it was made in 2003?
Feb 23 21:14:19 <eccerr0r> and the SDK has 2.5 python on it too!!!
Feb 23 21:15:35 <eccerr0r> If they were compatible why wasn't the same 2.5 used for the whole SDK?
Feb 23 21:17:41 <kerio> i don't know, i didn't make scratchbox
Feb 23 21:18:05 <kerio> there's also three separate versions of apt
Feb 23 21:19:34 <eccerr0r> yeah that's annoying too... but application levels I don't hold to as high standard as languages.
Feb 23 21:20:28 <kerio> except that apt/dpkg also includes dpkg-buildpackage and dh_* and those are used oh so fucking everywhere when building packages
Feb 23 21:25:44 <eccerr0r>  1152 user      117m S    /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu                          
Feb 23 21:25:47 <eccerr0r> ouch
Feb 23 21:27:07 <eccerr0r> need to prune widgets.
Feb 23 22:54:31 <WizardNumberNext> Lets say I need few alarms an hour. Is alarmclient good choice to set them? Where can I find easy to comprehend documetation, possibly with many examples
Feb 23 22:54:33 <WizardNumberNext> ?
Feb 24 01:50:40 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF is wrong with tmo?
Feb 24 01:50:50 <DocScrutinizer05> non-responsive
Feb 24 01:51:07 <DocScrutinizer05> well, rather slooooow
Feb 24 01:52:10 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, maybe they snapshotted the VM
Feb 24 02:06:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ~xyawn
Feb 24 02:06:23 <infobot> it has been said that xyawn is nice coffee
Feb 24 02:06:39 <DocScrutinizer05> RLY?
Feb 24 02:06:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ~xyawn
Feb 24 02:06:42 <infobot> [xyawn] coffee
Feb 24 02:06:45 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 24 02:59:58 2013