**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 07 02:59:58 2013 Mar 07 06:30:22 hi! Mar 07 07:08:58 Estel_: autobuilder seems mostly working Mar 07 07:09:06 Estel_: and hash sums are fixed Mar 07 07:09:23 jacekowski: that's great :) Mar 07 07:09:35 Estel_: so if you want to try those use 213.128.137.22 as r.m.o Mar 07 07:10:07 jacekowski: can autobuilder web interface be used? Mar 07 07:11:32 i haven't tried that yet Mar 07 07:11:40 only dput side of things Mar 07 07:11:50 but that's disabled for now Mar 07 07:19:52 HI guys, yesterday i did full retrain cycle for my new battery. It's capacity is 1700mAh (and it's a brand new one) Mar 07 07:20:04 Currently i checked the status of retrain Mar 07 07:20:14 LMD 1241 mAh Mar 07 07:20:25 Looks like it can't train more than ? Mar 07 07:21:03 Repor. Batt. Voltage: 4129mV Mar 07 07:21:11 CSOC: 100% Mar 07 07:21:21 DocScrutinizer05: Mar 07 07:22:37 XATRIX: sure it's really 1700mAh? Mar 07 07:22:46 Yep Mar 07 07:23:07 4.129 mV is pretty close to 4.2V, the maximum for BL-5H type batteries. Mar 07 07:23:15 http://traf.us/en/p/1531/#.UThAXhyjFBw Mar 07 07:23:21 It may just be 1300 mAh. Mar 07 07:23:46 You do know that Chinese companies love rebranding, right? Mar 07 07:23:55 Something like Mar 07 07:24:22 But i still have doubts about it's 1300 Mar 07 07:24:49 I saw even 2300-2500 mAh for BL-5J Mar 07 07:24:52 non-Nokia Mar 07 07:25:04 maybe i have to retrain it again ? Mar 07 07:28:06 XATRIX: That's pretty impossible for a single battery. Mar 07 07:28:14 Why not ? Mar 07 07:28:27 *coff coff mugen* Mar 07 07:28:30 Li-Ion battery chemistry, etc. Mar 07 07:28:42 kerio: that doesn't qualify as a /single/ battery. Mar 07 07:28:58 is it actually two batteries, even the original one? Mar 07 07:29:02 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2300mAh-BL-5J-BL-5J-Battery-Use-for-Nokia-N900-X6-5800XM-5800i-5800W-5230XM-5233/408348_518985402.html?src=ale&isdl=y&cn=csephase1&tp1=100001205&af=cse_szl Mar 07 07:29:12 XATRIX: yeah... no Mar 07 07:29:15 kerio: Two cells in one battery case. Mar 07 07:29:21 XATRIX: If you wanted 2500 mAh, you're going to have to make that N900 a bit thicker. Mar 07 07:29:33 *3100 Mar 07 07:29:41 dual polarcell or dual scud Mar 07 07:29:56 Still have doubts Mar 07 07:30:03 it looks pretty thin Mar 07 07:30:11 that battery is fake Mar 07 07:30:19 http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/2300mAh-BL-5J-BL-5J-Battery-Use-for-Nokia-N900-X6-5800XM-5800i-5800W-5230XM-5233/518985402.html -this one Mar 07 07:30:38 it's fake Mar 07 07:30:58 Ok, i can assume, that chinese EE guys, made a trick Mar 07 07:31:08 They did a hi-capacity battery Mar 07 07:31:31 But put a standard resistor onto, and it's reported as a usual one Mar 07 07:31:50 other way around Mar 07 07:31:54 But it will drain it's energy much more longer against the Nokia's BK-5J Mar 07 07:32:05 that battery is likely to be 800mAh Mar 07 07:32:33 if you want high capacity, there's the akku polarcell and the scud Mar 07 07:32:35 both around 1500mAh Mar 07 07:32:44 Why do you think so ? Mar 07 07:32:48 the standard bl-5j right now is 1400 Mar 07 07:32:59 I mean, why do you think it's 800 ? Mar 07 07:33:04 because it's a battery sold in china Mar 07 07:33:10 the default is to not believe *anything* Mar 07 07:33:18 not even that it's a bl-5j and not a... sponge or something Mar 07 07:33:40 XATRIX: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568 Mar 07 07:35:32 It's even heavier than a standard one Mar 07 07:35:57 by all means, buy it and report back Mar 07 07:35:57 Why are you killing my hope ????!? Mar 07 07:36:09 XATRIX: thetruth.png Mar 07 07:36:12 ) Mar 07 07:39:08 * XATRIX uses cpumem-applet Mar 07 07:41:25 Maybe it will be better to start retrain battery one more time Mar 07 07:42:26 My current Aavg = 51ma Mar 07 07:42:41 While all the comms were disabled, it was 5mA Mar 07 07:45:20 Hmm.. the interresting fact is when i set my brightness to the lowest value my Average Current : 47mA Mar 07 07:45:35 If i set it to max ~0-4mA Mar 07 07:46:05 Is it consumes more power while the backlight is dimmed ? Mar 07 08:01:49 XATRIX: unlikely Mar 07 08:02:02 But it is Mar 07 08:02:18 measurment error Mar 07 08:02:30 Yes, my current backlight is lowerst one position Mar 07 08:02:35 Current 32mA Mar 07 08:02:40 In full - 0 Mar 07 08:09:07 Discharging batt. Average Current: 307 mA Mar 07 08:09:15 Reported Battery Voltage: 4070 mV Mar 07 08:09:22 Last Measured Discharge: 1241 mAh Mar 07 08:27:19 mo'nin' Mar 07 08:28:32 which version of flasher do i need? maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz or flasher_3.12.1_amd64.deb ? Mar 07 08:29:21 (for n900) Mar 07 08:30:10 for the n900, 3.5 Mar 07 08:30:45 3.12 is for what? N9 only? Mar 07 08:32:00 i think so, yes Mar 07 08:34:39 ty Mar 07 08:39:05 what is the difference between the maemo version? USA, UK, Global... ? Mar 07 08:39:37 i guess it is ok with the global one? Mar 07 08:40:47 yeah, the global one is the recommended one Mar 07 08:40:50 it works on every n900 Mar 07 08:41:02 * tx0h nods Mar 07 08:41:16 but what is the difference? Mar 07 08:45:27 i'm not entirely sure Mar 07 08:45:35 :-) Mar 07 08:45:38 me neither Mar 07 08:45:43 stuff like the fmtx might be missing from some of those specialized releases Mar 07 08:46:14 do you know what FIASCO stands for? Mar 07 08:46:37 fmtx? Mar 07 08:47:44 fm transmitter Mar 07 08:47:55 aah, yeas. this might be Mar 07 08:48:43 i just ordered the usb cable but i try to sort things out, now that i've got a n900 with a working usb port :-) Mar 07 09:36:39 * b0unc3 good morning Mar 07 09:45:51 * tx0h waves Mar 07 10:30:02 The following packages will be REMOVED: kernel-power-flasher kernel-power-modules kernel-power-settings Mar 07 10:30:04 The following packages will be upgraded: kernel-power Mar 07 10:30:38 ist this ok to do or not? i.e. did the other three get merged into kernel-power, or should I better wait for the other packages to get updated to match the current kernel-power? Mar 07 10:30:47 wat Mar 07 10:31:10 I get this from apt-get install kernel-power Mar 07 10:31:15 as upgrade told me it's kept back Mar 07 10:31:24 Pali: did you merge all the things Mar 07 10:33:33 ah, I see, kernel-power-modules did get updated, so using the new version would fix it; however, kernel-power-flasher does not work with current kernel-power Mar 07 10:33:52 divVerent: i think that waiting would be better Mar 07 10:34:21 AH, I see Mar 07 10:34:31 the flasher is not in stable or testing yet, just in devel Mar 07 10:34:34 which I have pinned down to 1 Mar 07 10:34:39 so I never auotmatically get stuff from devel Mar 07 10:34:45 but I have testing active Mar 07 10:34:53 ok, deactivating testing then for now Mar 07 10:36:49 ok, the other three kept back packages are easy to fix by installing them explicitly... they are only kept back due to new dependencies Mar 07 10:37:09 sdl-mixer e.g. seems to have learned about vorbis Mar 07 10:37:17 that's from -devel, yes Mar 07 10:37:21 no, not -devel Mar 07 10:37:27 this package is from extras stable Mar 07 10:37:34 probably recently got pushed to stable Mar 07 10:37:54 devel has a slightly newer version ;) Mar 07 10:38:20 ok, upgrade is happy, now time for deborphan Mar 07 10:38:44 is the community-ssu-enabler package still useful after having run the enabler? Mar 07 10:39:07 yeah Mar 07 10:39:53 what would happen if I were to remove it? Mar 07 10:40:26 your n900 will explode Mar 07 10:40:34 or maybe some confusion with HAM and the metapackage Mar 07 10:40:58 all I see it still "does" is an apt-worker diversion Mar 07 10:41:06 community-ssu-enabler has the keys and the catalogue information for the CSSU repos in HAM Mar 07 10:41:12 ah yes, you're on stable Mar 07 10:41:20 that diversion is necessary to make updates via HAM work Mar 07 10:41:22 AH, right Mar 07 10:41:30 the prerm script would also take the repo out of hildon Mar 07 10:41:32 ok, then I need it Mar 07 10:41:51 deborphan -A'd Mar 07 10:42:11 speaking of which, I maybe should try packaging debfoster or deborphan for Maemo... Mar 07 10:42:18 so is palis bme replacement cool to use yet? Mar 07 10:42:21 I currently am using the version from debian.org, with the binary extracted out of the .deb Mar 07 10:42:25 or will it make my n900 asplode? Mar 07 10:42:56 the deborphan .deb from Debian doesn't install due to library deps, BUT the binary runs anyway. As in, the libraries are more compatible than Debian thinks they are ;) Mar 07 10:43:18 vi__: i've been using it for... idk, a month and a half? Mar 07 10:43:23 my n900 explodes all the time Mar 07 10:43:40 but, to be honest, there are still some quirks Mar 07 10:43:52 such as? Mar 07 10:44:02 there's pretty much no green led at any time Mar 07 10:44:09 meh Mar 07 10:44:12 mine didn't explode at all yet... probably the lithium ion battery has not enough power for a nice fun explosion any more Mar 07 10:44:34 and, in the latest version, it's impossible to calibrate bq27k because the phone shuts down at EDV1 Mar 07 10:44:41 lolwut Mar 07 10:44:57 that is a pretty big 'quirk'. Mar 07 10:45:42 http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINAL-VHBW-BACKUP-AKKU-10400mAh-WEIs-fur-Nokia-N9-N9-00-/200895374450?pt=DE_Handy_PDA_Akkus&hash=item2ec64c2472 - probably need one of these :P I bet this battery CAN explode when "used right"; i.e. wrong Mar 07 10:45:50 what other cool shit has happened in the past 3 months? Mar 07 10:46:00 vi__, meh, you can continue calibrating when the phone comes back up. Mar 07 10:46:43 aah, so while it shuts down on edv1, it does record the last measured discharg? Mar 07 10:46:51 If so, that is just fine. Mar 07 10:46:55 yep, it's stored in the battery, after all. Mar 07 10:47:04 ... Mar 07 10:47:36 So has any cool new shit surfaced recently? Mar 07 10:47:45 wait, is EDV and VDQ stored on the battery's fuel gauge or on the N900's fuel gauge? Mar 07 10:47:55 ... Mar 07 10:48:05 The battery does not have a fuel gauge. Mar 07 10:48:35 The BQ chip is supposed to be in the battery (like a laptop pack) but in the n900 case, it is not. Mar 07 10:48:42 ah, that was it. Mar 07 10:49:42 vi__: there aren't really loads of groundbreaking new stuff for Fremantle, just the usual updates and bug fixes. Mar 07 10:50:31 Hurrian: wait, no you don't Mar 07 10:50:40 bq27k needs like 15 seconds at edv1 Mar 07 10:59:45 kerio: ah crap, that means that I've been doing calibration wrong all this time. Mar 07 11:01:42 10400mAh? what?:D Mar 07 11:02:09 jaska: looks like a power tank. Mar 07 11:02:14 ah, external Mar 07 11:02:34 thought someone had went nuts and made a bigger back cover than mugen and crammed 10.4 Ah in there :D Mar 07 11:03:17 jaska: That'd make the N900 twice as thick as it already is. Mar 07 11:03:26 well, you could extend it at one end Mar 07 11:03:44 Maybe one can be made from a few 18650 batteries. Mar 07 11:03:57 from the side that has the usb connector.. just have a passthru Mar 07 11:04:16 actually, thatd be awkward Mar 07 11:04:44 perhaps the slider/phonojack end then.. and provide passthru for the connector and some mechanical thingy for slider Mar 07 11:05:41 that'd be more awkward, it'd be trouble to have the slider thingy properly fit over the original slider lock Mar 07 11:06:02 muUSB passthru with a switch to toggle charging would be better. Mar 07 11:06:24 yeah but then it would extend past your ear Mar 07 11:06:31 opposite of older phones Mar 07 11:06:33 wait, it'll probably also need a circuit to prevent charging when connected via USB. Mar 07 11:29:13 Hurrian: just use doc's script Mar 07 11:29:14 or mine Mar 07 11:36:10 DocScrutinizer05, where to create new ticket? Mar 07 11:57:32 Pali: you've been in CC, please notice that this mail was to support at nemein.com Mar 07 11:57:45 I kept you in CC to let you know Mar 07 11:57:47 ah, now I see :-) Mar 07 11:57:55 that doesn't mean you need to do anything Mar 07 12:35:37 important question to our experts here!!! Mar 07 12:36:22 * andre__ hides when he sees three question marks Mar 07 12:36:27 if scratchbox.org NS was a CNAME, would that work for installation scripts and whatever else needs scratchbox.org URL? Mar 07 12:37:10 you mean NS record pointing to a CNAME? That works, is discouraged though. Mar 07 12:37:25 Or do you mean the name record for scratchbox.org itself? "Usually this works", but I suppose nobody has tried it yet Mar 07 12:37:26 might be our best option Mar 07 12:37:30 the glibc resolver doesn't care Mar 07 12:37:52 I mean, are you planning to have scratchbox.org IN CNAME someotherhost Mar 07 12:38:08 or do you mean scratchbox.org IN NS ns01.scratchbox.org, and ns01.scratchbox.org IN CNAME whatever Mar 07 12:38:15 I mean scratchbox.org -CNAME-> scratchbox.maemo.org -> our new IP Mar 07 12:38:24 oh, so you don't mean the NS record Mar 07 12:38:36 assuming only the glibc resolver is involved, this will work Mar 07 12:38:48 most resolvers support CNAME Mar 07 12:38:48 sorry, no expert here Mar 07 12:38:51 and userspace programs don't care Mar 07 12:39:20 basically, you MAY discover some brokenness, but that then needs fixing anyway ;) Mar 07 12:39:21 divVerent: a resolver that doesn't support CNAME isn't standard anyway Mar 07 12:39:27 kerio: that's my point Mar 07 12:39:31 and wouldn't work for... google.com Mar 07 12:39:35 yes :P Mar 07 12:39:36 so i gather we're fine when whoever owns scratchbox.org now will change that to a CNAME pointing to a maemo.org subdomain? Mar 07 12:39:42 yes Mar 07 12:39:44 ...no, wait Mar 07 12:39:45 hold on Mar 07 12:39:49 the one catch is that they need to be ABLE to turn it into a CNAME Mar 07 12:39:53 not every hoster allows this :( Mar 07 12:39:54 DocScrutinizer05: i'm afraid that the answer is no, actually Mar 07 12:39:59 some cheap domain hosters only allow A records Mar 07 12:40:11 the DNS standard states that a record is either **only** a CNAME or other things Mar 07 12:40:21 kerio: right, so? Mar 07 12:40:26 it's not entirely specified if the SOA record for scratchbox.org counts Mar 07 12:40:35 that's a nice catch ;) Mar 07 12:40:38 but even then, mixing CNAME and, say, MX will probably cause problems Mar 07 12:40:45 so you wouldn't have scratchbox.org emails Mar 07 12:40:59 also... do you really use scratchbox.org, or subdomain.scratchbox.org? Mar 07 12:41:03 a simple CNAME won't fix the subdomains Mar 07 12:41:21 scratchbox.org. 600 IN SOA ns1.creanor.com. postmaster.creanor.com. 2011082203 7200 3600 604800 600 Mar 07 12:41:23 scratchbox.org. 600 IN MX 10 smtp01.wmfi.net. Mar 07 12:41:24 scratchbox.org. 600 IN A 80.248.164.245 Mar 07 12:41:30 they use email, so nope Mar 07 12:41:34 email uses the MX, yes Mar 07 12:41:38 a cname isn't guaranteed to work Mar 07 12:41:41 and we know of some broken email resolvers ;) Mar 07 12:41:50 I mean, some mail servers do their own resolving, and don't support CNAME Mar 07 12:42:01 wasn't qmail one of these? ;) Mar 07 12:42:29 also, do you use any subdomains of scratchbox.org? Mar 07 12:42:32 like, "www.scratchbox.org" Mar 07 12:42:37 CNAME won't fix these Mar 07 12:42:38 ok, for what matters to me, CNAME is no viable alternative to transfer of domain to maemo.org Mar 07 12:42:55 nope Mar 07 12:43:06 thedead1440: ^^^ Mar 07 12:43:08 I would indeed recommend the transfer Mar 07 12:43:08 whose domain is scratchbox.org anyway? Mar 07 12:43:26 that's the question Mar 07 12:43:50 DocScrutinizer05: noted; we hope they do the transfer in that case Mar 07 12:43:52 Registrant Name:Movial Mar 07 12:43:54 DocScrutinizer05: changing the domain's NS records would work Mar 07 12:43:54 Registrant Organization:Movial Mar 07 12:43:56 Registrant Street1:Porkkalankatu 20 A Mar 07 12:43:58 so you get street address Mar 07 12:44:01 but this doesn't look like a name Mar 07 12:44:04 anyone want to visit him? ;) Mar 07 12:44:13 in Helsinki, Finland Mar 07 12:44:26 changing the domain's NS records is indeed the proper way Mar 07 12:44:36 well, the proper way is to change ownership of the domain Mar 07 12:44:37 and then do whatever Mar 07 12:44:49 yep Mar 07 12:45:09 divVerent: Movial is a company Mar 07 12:45:13 we're hosting sb on maemo.org, so we need control over the DNS Mar 07 12:45:27 sooner or later Mar 07 12:46:16 I hand over this discussion to thedead1440, maintainer of maemo sb VM Mar 07 12:46:54 basically even if they change their ns records to sb.maemo.org it would be fine right? Mar 07 12:47:08 right, for now Mar 07 12:47:25 yes, but in the long run, it'd be good to have ownership of the domain anyway Mar 07 12:47:42 but not for any future service we might need to do due to e.g. change of IPs on our infra Mar 07 12:47:55 i.e. "formal ownership", e.g. right to transfer etc. (and obligation to pay ;)) Mar 07 12:48:04 DocScrutinizer05: no, changing their ns records would mean that we control the DNS for that domain Mar 07 12:48:06 that too Mar 07 12:48:08 divVerent: it would be good to have ownership but we must also work on the basis if Movial is not interested in transferring the domain over Mar 07 12:48:20 thedead1440: right Mar 07 12:48:29 if they are not interestd, BUT will do the NS record thing, then that works Mar 07 12:48:40 kerio: I know, but they won't do that Mar 07 12:48:47 I need to present an alternative to them other than domain transfer so as to not scare them away Mar 07 12:48:47 why the fuck not Mar 07 12:48:58 thing is, if they keep owning the domain, but point the NS records elsewhere... it'd be kinda pointless to them Mar 07 12:49:00 what use could they POSSIBLY have for scratchbox.org Mar 07 12:49:52 they may be interested, but the interest may be a function of the price one would be willing to pay ;) Mar 07 12:50:06 scratchbox.org. 600 IN SOA ns1.creanor.com. postmaster.creanor.com. 2011082203 7200 3600 604800 600 Mar 07 12:50:14 scratchbox.org. 600 IN NS ns1.creanor.com. Mar 07 12:51:54 either they transfer domain to maemo.org, we pay and control it. Or (poor alternative) they keep their domain ownership and control and just point the A record to our VM Mar 07 12:52:39 aiui that are the two alternatives available Mar 07 12:53:04 if tehre's a sound 3rd one, let me know Mar 07 13:08:39 DocScrutinizer05: I checked the RFCs. There is none. Mar 07 13:09:18 pointing the NS records to something below maemo.org IS a possibility, but a very unlikely one for them to accept (I'd suggest it anyway, but not expect this variant to be chosen) Mar 07 13:10:15 as it'd end up with them paying for the domain, without being able to do anything with it (other than being able to take away the NS record at any time) Mar 07 13:10:44 one SLIGHTLY different way would also be them changing their DNS zone to be a slave zone, with the master on maemo.org Mar 07 13:10:57 so if you update the zone, it automatically transfers to their DNS servers Mar 07 13:11:10 but that's EVEN less likely, as they'd then ALSO pay for the DNS hosting infrastructure without having any control ;) Mar 07 13:17:15 jaska, I've, actually, put a little thicker cover for 7800 mAh battery (2x lions) Mar 07 13:17:43 still little too big to do it without body replacement, not due to thicknes,s but due to how 18650's are long Mar 07 13:17:49 - yoda like grammar Mar 07 13:18:32 anyway, what I mean is that it's still possible, and N900 live what seems like eternity on single charging Mar 07 13:18:45 althoug charging take ages Mar 07 13:18:52 divVerent: yes, thanks for the explanations. We are following hidden-primary concept for maemo.org domain with Nokia, until final handover to HiFo. i don't see this flying for this case though. I wouldn't even suggest it to Jussi Mar 07 13:19:44 yes, it would give them a BIT more control, as they then could still create (to some extent) subzones in their DNS to override stuff (RFCs don't really like this, though, but people do it...) Mar 07 13:19:57 but yes, it means even more overhead to them :P Mar 07 13:19:57 ~8h to full, or 6h to almsot full (so-called fast charge, if you skip saturation) Mar 07 13:20:47 a Maemo question again... how would I try to calibrate the battery? Mar 07 13:20:50 XATRIX, your battery IS 800 mAh, period. Resistor inside shows 1300 mAh, which is bshit, all the time in any battery Mar 07 13:20:58 I noticed that when unplugging the charger in charged state, it immediately drops to about 90% Mar 07 13:21:05 div, either use DocScrutinizer05's automagic script Mar 07 13:21:06 and also, it just ran for over 30 minutes at 0.0% Mar 07 13:21:33 or find a guy named "Estel" in TMO, and check his signature - detailed instruction for manual calibration there, including all "why and how it works" Mar 07 13:21:35 it's the original battery, but it's the one that came with the device when it was bought, so it's a bit worn out Mar 07 13:22:11 divVerent, don't look at this 0, if you're reading from bq chip, it just mean it's not calibrated properly (yet) Mar 07 13:23:00 7800mAh, that oughta last a while Mar 07 13:23:30 divVerent: 30min or more at 0% is normal Mar 07 13:24:15 divVerent: also drop to 95%(?) in pretty short time after unplug is normal, not to 90% though Mar 07 13:24:30 DocScrutinizer05, but not with readings from bq Mar 07 13:24:37 yes Mar 07 13:24:44 err Mar 07 13:25:00 bq jumps from 95% to 100% on charging Mar 07 13:25:03 with bme everythning is possible (tm), as it uses sado-macho alghorithm with voltage Mar 07 13:25:09 on dischraging it shouldn't do this Mar 07 13:25:16 yea Mar 07 13:25:45 Estel_: haha, it uses voltage... Mar 07 13:25:53 that explains why sometimes the charge went up during use ;) Mar 07 13:25:58 i.e. some down-spikes that recover a bit later Mar 07 13:26:07 anyway since I have nfc what divVerent is using to get those readings, I don't really care to explain all the differnet scenarios Mar 07 13:26:11 * Estel_ just unloaded bq2415x_battery and bq27x00_battery using Pali's replacement, and waits to see, if it will calibrate as advertised Mar 07 13:27:09 jaska, funny thing, is that thicknes isn't as bad with 18650 Mar 07 13:27:45 DocScrutinizer05: oh, different programs show different percentage at same state? Mar 07 13:27:50 (imagine ~2 cm distance from N900's motherboard, it shield, to be precise) Mar 07 13:28:00 sure Mar 07 13:28:04 reading is from "Advanced Power" Mar 07 13:28:14 divVerent, it depends if it uses bq27x00 or bme or voltage without averaging or... Mar 07 13:28:16 otherwise why would we have different 2programs" ? ;-) Mar 07 13:28:16 and I haven't touched anything bme-related yet on the system Mar 07 13:28:31 divVerent, advanced power got at least 3 methods build in, user configurable Mar 07 13:28:41 no idea which one you're using Mar 07 13:28:41 ouch Mar 07 13:28:49 it's set to "Nokia's BME" Mar 07 13:28:57 so you know what you get Mar 07 13:29:01 that's guesswork Mar 07 13:29:10 and calibration won't change it Mar 07 13:29:12 btw why wasting RAM for advanced power monitor, is using bme readings anyway? Mar 07 13:29:14 the third method is "Dummy", so that one probably doesn't work Mar 07 13:29:20 yea ;) Mar 07 13:29:28 Estel_: only reason why I use it is so I can get a percentage in the status dropdown Mar 07 13:29:37 but it's guesswork anyway Mar 07 13:29:38 if there's a better way to achieve that, I'd kill it Mar 07 13:29:47 you could made your own percentage from bars :P Mar 07 13:29:55 ~bq27k Mar 07 13:30:01 APM is good program, but frankly, i don't use it for ages Mar 07 13:30:01 dang Mar 07 13:30:03 I also run battery-eye to get "nice graphs" Mar 07 13:30:09 ~listkeys bq Mar 07 13:30:10 Estel_, is 30s enoght after EDV1? Mar 07 13:30:11 Factoid search of 'bq' by key (19 of 37): airport abq ;; airport bqk ;; airport bqn ;; airport dbq ;; airport lbq ;; bq-calibrate ;; bq27200 ;; bq27k-detail ;; cbq ;; cbq.init ;; gbbq ;; gnu/linux bbq project ;; html ;; html ;; html ;; jargon bqs ;; jbq ;; jobqueue  ;; kbquery. Mar 07 13:30:18 dafaq Mar 07 13:30:24 battery-eye is a mess, it uses bme, so this graph is made-up guessworking Mar 07 13:30:25 ~listkeys bq2 Mar 07 13:30:26 Factoid search of 'bq2' by key (2): bq27k-detail ;; bq27200. Mar 07 13:30:37 ~bq27200 Mar 07 13:30:37 bq27k-detail is, like, http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 Mar 07 13:30:52 divVerent, if you want most conveinent and accurate readings as it goes now... Mar 07 13:31:06 either go super-devel and install kp52 and Pali's bme replacement bits... Mar 07 13:31:07 use bfn Mar 07 13:31:15 and kerio's fork of Pali's battery applet Mar 07 13:31:23 ...or use bnf (shameless advert) Mar 07 13:31:30 oh thanks DocScrutinizer05 :P Mar 07 13:31:41 which isn't mature yet (bme-replacement) Mar 07 13:32:04 WTF? kerio's battery applet fork? Mar 07 13:32:14 just keep in mind that newest bnf is provided as tar drop-in file replacement for older version, due to repos everyone-know-what Mar 07 13:32:20 i deny the existance of such things Mar 07 13:32:24 :P Mar 07 13:32:53 Pali, kerio's fork ignore that resistor build-in thing, and read from bq27x00 all the time Mar 07 13:32:56 sorry :P Mar 07 13:33:12 it's like a two-line change Mar 07 13:33:23 it's just more practical to use, 'till you incorporate the things we've discussed and agreed on Mar 07 13:33:34 fwiw, i don't use it Mar 07 13:33:39 well, it's still fork of some kind :P Mar 07 13:34:00 for 3 people using latest bme replacement, at least one person uses fork :P Mar 07 13:34:11 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/i/i2c-tools/i2c-tools_3.0.2-1maemo3_armel.deb Hash Sum mismatch Mar 07 13:34:15 is this something I did wrong? :P Mar 07 13:34:18 btw, did you wrote wiki page for discussion and possible solutions for percentage, design capacity, etc...? Mar 07 13:34:28 divVerent: yep, it's all your fault Mar 07 13:34:31 you broke the internet Mar 07 13:34:34 hehe Mar 07 13:34:35 kerio promised to do that *rises finger* Mar 07 13:34:37 I'm still waiting :-) Mar 07 13:34:44 i deny the existance of such promises Mar 07 13:35:06 Pali, it seems that I can do it, IF wiki stopped to work at 7 b/s Mar 07 13:35:13 last time i tried it was like that Mar 07 13:35:45 just remind me of other "solutions" Mar 07 13:35:59 as it seems that I remember only the ones that actually works? Mar 07 13:36:06 s/ones/one/ Mar 07 13:36:07 Estel_ meant: as it seems that I remember only the one that actually works? Mar 07 13:36:50 btw it funny, 6 months ago we didn't believed in possibility of bme replacement, now we have "multiple solutions" and even small fork Mar 07 13:37:08 divVerent, btw, pali's battery aplet and kerio's fork shows percentage too Mar 07 13:37:13 even without drop-downing Mar 07 13:37:18 * Estel_ teases Mar 07 13:38:09 enough with the "fork" thing Mar 07 13:38:16 the only one problem for now is that it shut down device at edv1 so disallow calibration, untill you unload modules before - but Pali promised to fix it soon, even without wiki page with multiple solutions... ;) Mar 07 13:38:21 maybe you don't realize it, but the hardest part in what i did was installing scratchbox Mar 07 13:38:28 kerio, sure Mar 07 13:38:32 it's always the hardest part Mar 07 13:38:45 I couldn't bug myself to do it up to this date Mar 07 13:38:50 kerio: ooh, you have SB installed Mar 07 13:39:00 no, i eventually downloaded the ubuntu vm image Mar 07 13:39:02 don't even ask how i packaged bnf and ereswap Mar 07 13:39:08 you really don't wanna know Mar 07 13:39:15 how did you package bnf and ereswap? Mar 07 13:39:15 Estel_, now I'm adding code which wait 30 seconds before sending empty signal to DSME Mar 07 13:39:17 it is ok? Mar 07 13:39:19 kerio: so nothing stops you now to start coding for CSSU :P Mar 07 13:39:24 (but it's properly packaged, anyway) Mar 07 13:39:28 Pali, np! Mar 07 13:39:30 no! Mar 07 13:39:36 there is still a problem Mar 07 13:39:40 hm? Mar 07 13:39:46 freemangordon: hey let's not get too ahead of ourselves now Mar 07 13:39:52 it need 15 seconds on edv1 *without* going above edv Mar 07 13:39:57 as it resets timer Mar 07 13:40:00 and happens all the time Mar 07 13:40:08 Estel_: would (EDV1+EDVF)/2 work? Mar 07 13:40:23 it calibrate *only* if it is 15 seconds straight below edv1 Mar 07 13:40:30 without going above at all Mar 07 13:40:43 Estel_: I kinda don't get yet how your script works :P Mar 07 13:40:51 all it does is display stuff, possibly in a loop Mar 07 13:40:55 Pali, haven't your promised to add gconf that would make it suerr configurrable and require reboot after change? ;) Mar 07 13:41:04 so we first charge fully, check that the battery agrees it's fully charged Mar 07 13:41:04 divVerent, no loop Mar 07 13:41:07 and then merely discharge Mar 07 13:41:10 ah Mar 07 13:41:13 divVerent, it's not mine Mar 07 13:41:14 now I do not know what is needed Mar 07 13:41:17 it's DocScrutinizer05's Mar 07 13:41:26 oh right, shadowj wrote it Mar 07 13:41:31 shadowjk* Mar 07 13:41:31 better, write all info to (wiki) page Mar 07 13:41:39 and then I change code in dsme Mar 07 13:41:41 Pali, ok, lets explain it slowly and in one line, so gimme a 30 seconds: Mar 07 13:41:45 and hald addon bme Mar 07 13:41:53 divVerent: no, I wrote it Mar 07 13:41:57 anyway... to me this script looks like it does "nothing at all", so basically letting the battery fully charge, then fully discharge until auto power down does the very same Mar 07 13:42:07 I am referring to this one Mar 07 13:42:07 not quite Mar 07 13:42:09 bq27200.sh script by shadowjk - place it wherever You want (i suggest /usr/bin, this way You may execute it by typing just "bq27200.sh", without quotes - no need for full path), and chmod +x it. Mar 07 13:42:11 or is that you Mar 07 13:42:33 no Mar 07 13:43:00 all actions this script ever does is i2cget, there is a killall to bme_RX-51 that is commented out Mar 07 13:43:00 this script doen't calibrate though Mar 07 13:43:13 it looks more like it just shows info about the battery's own calibration Mar 07 13:43:14 it just displays values of bq27200 Mar 07 13:43:15 Pali, what we need is user configurable treeshold, period. Some users may encounter GSM modem problems even slightly above edv1, and they could just make treeshold higher. Others, like me, don't have problems even @ 2.900 mV, so would set it lower, to gain most from battery Mar 07 13:43:53 I actually don't believe its output at all ;) Mar 07 13:44:11 otherwise, if you want to do soemthing around edv1, you must, sadly, mimic bq27x00 calibration logic, which is "calibrate, if voltage is at or below edv1 for 15 seconds straigh. If it goes above edv1, reset timer" Mar 07 13:44:18 then why do you pester us? Mar 07 13:44:22 Last Measured Discharge: 1713 mAh Mar 07 13:44:25 it's above the design capacity Mar 07 13:44:32 I want to learn how to calibrate the battery right :P Mar 07 13:44:46 ~bq-calibrate Mar 07 13:44:46 it has been said that bq-calibrate is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh Mar 07 13:45:17 divVerent, this output is bogus, due to fact, that bq chip at reset is 2056, and with every calibration it goes down by no more than some value Mar 07 13:45:34 AH... yes, this script looks like a plan :P Mar 07 13:45:40 so you, accidentaly, calibrated it once, so it went to 1700 mAh, but is still far from truth Mar 07 13:45:54 Pali: Estel_: or just check for bq27200 finishing calibration cycle before shutting down device Mar 07 13:46:19 DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to figure out if bq27200 would've finished a calibration cycle if there was a VDQ? Mar 07 13:46:28 DocScrutinizer05, good idea top but user configurable is always better. BTW, how to check finished calibration, reliably? Mar 07 13:46:50 it would require complicated logic involving vdq, edv1 etc Mar 07 13:46:52 edv1 flag Mar 07 13:46:54 ~bq-calibrate Mar 07 13:46:55 somebody said bq-calibrate was http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh Mar 07 13:47:02 as vdq can go from 1 to 0 without calibrating, too Mar 07 13:47:05 instead of voltage below edv1 register Mar 07 13:47:23 hmmm, whenever it does, it's safe to shutdown Mar 07 13:47:26 ...we could use the edv1 flag, that's only set after the possible calibration has already happened Mar 07 13:47:30 and this bq-calibrate script only needs to be run once? Mar 07 13:47:32 erm, butg edv1 flag need to be for 15 seconds straigh, or we go back to point 1 Mar 07 13:47:37 -ETOOBIGIRCLOG Mar 07 13:47:38 (normally, that is) Mar 07 13:47:54 Estel_: afaik the *flag* is only set whenever the conditions for a calibration are met Mar 07 13:48:06 better write all to one place (e.g. wiki page), parsing irc log is hard now :-) Mar 07 13:48:08 divVerent: once every 32 cycles Mar 07 13:48:08 divVerent: eeh, for a first calibration you probably need two or three cycles Mar 07 13:48:08 Pali, ok, I get your reasoning for wiki page. Why can't it be just TMO post in bme replacement thread? :P Mar 07 13:48:16 ok Mar 07 13:48:24 and yeah, you need a calibration once in a while Mar 07 13:48:47 so what this script does, is basically inhibit the auto power down which the bme daemon might do too early, thwarting the auto calibration? Mar 07 13:48:48 wiki is editable by more people, tmo post only by author Mar 07 13:48:51 and if wikip which page? does it exist already? Mar 07 13:48:58 Pali, ok Mar 07 13:49:06 and this i2c stuff disables "emergency charging" whatever that is... Mar 07 13:49:11 divVerent: not only that, it also restarts the charging Mar 07 13:49:14 divVerent: and, as kerio said, first time you want to run it multiple times until LMD doesn't change anymore Mar 07 13:49:28 divVerent: it's meant to be run overnight Mar 07 13:49:33 create new page for discussions about bme, or use ecisting one, Pali? Mar 07 13:49:43 s/ecisting/existing/ Mar 07 13:49:44 Estel_ meant: create new page for discussions about bme, or use existing one, Pali? Mar 07 13:49:54 and if the latter, which one it is Mar 07 13:49:56 create new for discussion about bme replacement Mar 07 13:49:59 OK Mar 07 13:50:17 now out of interest... apparently these i2c commands inhibit charging Mar 07 13:50:24 i.e. you run this calibration script while connected to the charger Mar 07 13:50:26 yes Mar 07 13:50:29 will split one in a few minutes, just don't expect beautiful formatting, doing it from device Mar 07 13:50:36 or does stopping bme do the inhibit-charging stuff? Mar 07 13:50:44 both Mar 07 13:51:07 DocScrutinizer05: can you confirm that the edv1 *flag* behaves as we'd expect? Mar 07 13:51:08 stopping bme does inhibit normal charhing, but not emergency charging Mar 07 13:51:30 what do you *expect*? ;-) Mar 07 13:51:48 hehe... funny, emergency charging is a fun concept :P Mar 07 13:51:50 that it signals a finished calibration Mar 07 13:52:14 and "fastcharger" as mentioned by the script is basically the nokia power supply? Mar 07 13:53:23 divVerent: yes Mar 07 13:54:22 speaking of charging... is it possible to charge the n900 with anything but the original charger or a powered on PC? Mar 07 13:54:29 well, seems my calibration script does exactly that Mar 07 13:54:32 all my USB power supplies I have didn't work Mar 07 13:54:39 kerio: ^^^ Mar 07 13:54:46 and does it work? Mar 07 13:54:47 :D Mar 07 13:55:15 also, the iPhone power supply didn't work, and the iPhone itself is similarily picky ;) Mar 07 13:56:31 kerio: you tell us, I wrote that script for you iirc Mar 07 13:56:41 i've seen it work Mar 07 13:56:59 Estel_: please make sure that you mention the fact that the EDV1 *flag* would work correctly for calibration Mar 07 13:57:17 DocScrutinizer05: is the flag set even if we're not doing a VDQ? Mar 07 13:57:21 but honestly, why doesn't bme-repl wait for edvf before shutdown? Mar 07 13:57:37 DocScrutinizer05: some folks report problems with the gsm modem browning out Mar 07 13:57:47 and only working properly after a reboot Mar 07 13:58:21 kerio: (flag set) yes Mar 07 13:58:23 ah, I see... Apple uses a different way to detect "dumb" chargers Mar 07 13:58:29 than the micro usb charging spec Mar 07 13:58:39 what was the POINT of that EU regulation again, when Apple can freely ignore it? Mar 07 13:58:41 divVerent: indeed Mar 07 13:58:55 divVerent: apple also has tv out adapters that are more powerful than the n900 Mar 07 13:59:10 I mean, wasn't the only reason why Apple can keep its charger that it has an USB port, and the EU guys think it CAN thus charge the micro USB devices via a micro USB cable? Mar 07 13:59:13 which obviously isn't true Mar 07 13:59:19 USB cert specs added apple's way as a valid alternative Mar 07 13:59:25 AH, i see Mar 07 13:59:37 so they basically allowed two kinds of charger detection Mar 07 13:59:44 and a single charger can't possibly support both Mar 07 13:59:53 yep Mar 07 13:59:56 heeeey, bme-replacement just shut down my defvice at edv1 *DESPITE* having bq2415x and bq27x00 UNLOADED for ages! Pali, wtf? Mar 07 14:00:03 ~lart usb-cert Mar 07 14:00:03 * infobot resizes usb-cert's terminal to 40x24 Mar 07 14:00:16 hm, which is apple's way? Mar 07 14:00:17 but does that at least mean the N900 will charge with virtually any Android-device charger? Mar 07 14:00:19 haven't you said that it should let it go 'till end of power? Mar 07 14:00:38 kerio: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/icharge.html Mar 07 14:00:39 Estel_, rx51 battery can report battery voltage too Mar 07 14:00:40 found this Mar 07 14:00:45 basically, two fixed voltages on the data ports Mar 07 14:01:13 or your HW turned device off Mar 07 14:01:22 kerio: some resistor dividers on D+ and D- that apply voltage of 1/3 and 2/3 of VBUS, iirc Mar 07 14:01:46 hm, that way means that you can specify how much the device should draw Mar 07 14:01:54 * kerio feels kinda leaning towards apple's way... :s Mar 07 14:01:55 yep Mar 07 14:02:30 Pali, oh shit, so i should unload three modulesp including rx51 too? Mar 07 14:02:35 or more? Mar 07 14:02:43 no, it wasn't hardware shutdown for sure Mar 07 14:02:43 then there's even a third method: resistor from ID to GND Mar 07 14:02:44 nothing more is used Mar 07 14:02:49 Estel_: `stop bme` Mar 07 14:02:53 duh Mar 07 14:03:00 kerio, doesn't work with bme replacement Mar 07 14:03:04 sure it does Mar 07 14:03:07 no Mar 07 14:03:08 haven't you read /etc/event.d/bme? Mar 07 14:03:36 BloodRose:~# stop bme Mar 07 14:03:37 bme is only loading drivers at startup and ignore blacklist Mar 07 14:03:42 Job not changed: BME Mar 07 14:03:52 kerio, are you even using replacement? .P Mar 07 14:03:55 bme is now only upstart task Mar 07 14:04:04 or still using bme and just thinking that you use replacement? :P Mar 07 14:04:08 ._. Mar 07 14:04:13 upstart task = simple script Mar 07 14:04:13 i thought it had a way to also unload the modules Mar 07 14:04:32 kerio, it is not possible Mar 07 14:04:34 other symptoms, like loading and unloading bq27x00 resulting in reboot in your case, would suggest you still have old bme Mar 07 14:04:41 if replacement doesn't come with proper jobfile in /etc/events.d/* then it's crap Mar 07 14:04:43 ;-) Mar 07 14:04:45 because task finish when script finish Mar 07 14:04:58 DocScrutinizer05, it comes with proper file Mar 07 14:05:10 upstart is crap in this way Mar 07 14:05:34 Pali, so one need to unload THREE modules - bq2415x, bq27x00, and rx51, to temporaly stop bme replacement from shutting device down? or more? Mar 07 14:05:51 btw, and proper way is to unblacklist modules & remove upstart file Mar 07 14:06:00 it just deleted my work on wiki page, so I'm going to start from scratch :P Mar 07 14:06:03 Estel_, yes Mar 07 14:06:09 i thought there was no automatic module loading on the n900 Mar 07 14:06:11 Pali, thanks Mar 07 14:06:13 Pali: ack Mar 07 14:06:27 kerio, there is automatic module loading by udev Mar 07 14:06:41 Pali: ack, for first half (unblacklist), not though for "remove upstart file" Mar 07 14:07:13 DocScrutinizer05, bme daemon was moved to kernel Mar 07 14:07:23 so there is no bme daemon Mar 07 14:07:36 so no daemon started by upstart Mar 07 14:07:43 upstart job file should take care to *configure* sysfs nodes to do proper charging, and should stop charging via same sysfs nodes on `stop bme` Mar 07 14:07:55 not possible Mar 07 14:08:00 DocScrutinizer05: `stop bme` doesn't stop charging on stock maemo Mar 07 14:08:05 upstart does not support it Mar 07 14:08:07 DocScrutinizer05, but we don't want to mimic bme, as proper way is to do it in kernel? Mar 07 14:08:10 it disables any control of bq2415x Mar 07 14:08:32 Pali: are you sure there's no way to also provide a "stop script" with upstart tasks? :( Mar 07 14:08:36 DocScrutinizer05, upstart support 1) regular daemons 2) single scripts which start when you call "start script" Mar 07 14:08:48 kerio, yes Mar 07 14:09:03 but, one can prepare own script that unload all modules Mar 07 14:09:09 and another one that load them again Mar 07 14:09:12 and no single scripts that get started on `stop service` ? Mar 07 14:09:19 for user, it is equivalent to calling single command, then Mar 07 14:09:29 DocScrutinizer05, yes Mar 07 14:09:31 hehe, same ideas ;P) Mar 07 14:09:40 DocScrutinizer05, because stop is used only for killing daemons Mar 07 14:09:52 *shrug* Mar 07 14:09:56 and we do not have bme daemon process anymore Mar 07 14:10:06 who cares? Mar 07 14:10:12 ~bq-calibration Mar 07 14:10:13 upstart :D Mar 07 14:10:13 anyone know where i can downlosd mp3s for free Mar 07 14:10:32 Pali: then give upstart a daemon to kill Mar 07 14:10:36 fantasma, check myspace, some artists publish their mp3's for free, though .ogg is better Mar 07 14:10:53 ~bq-calibrate Mar 07 14:10:54 extra, extra, read all about it, bq-calibrate is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh Mar 07 14:11:05 mp3s are harder, but /dev/urandom has great wavs ;) Mar 07 14:11:06 infobot, bq-calibrate is also http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1053809&postcount=846 Mar 07 14:11:06 okay, Estel_ Mar 07 14:11:15 DocScrutinizer05, that daemon must be started by upstart by same config file Mar 07 14:11:16 DocScrutinizer05, is it proper way to mess with factoids? Mar 07 14:11:19 creativecommons.org also lists freely-distributable music Mar 07 14:11:34 florian, lol :) Mar 07 14:11:34 fantasma_: on russian servers, and don't ask here please Mar 07 14:11:51 DocScrutinizer05, why, many legal creative commons out there :P Mar 07 14:12:02 Pali: i distinctly remember seeing some upstart events have a "stop" section Mar 07 14:12:07 and he is obviously trolling, anyway Mar 07 14:12:10 is that called after the running process is TERMed? Mar 07 14:12:11 anyone know where i can downlosd mp3s for free Mar 07 14:12:20 just ban him already ;) Mar 07 14:12:25 kerio, in upstart there is "pre-stop" section which is called before killing daemon Mar 07 14:12:35 but if daemon is not running, then nothing is called Mar 07 14:12:37 fantasma_: you can download them on the internet Mar 07 14:12:50 it's a bot, or bored person Mar 07 14:12:51 Estel_: looks ok (factoids) Mar 07 14:12:59 * Estel_ nods Mar 07 14:13:10 is it possible to use burst mode for best picture like samsung on maemo n900?thank you. Mar 07 14:13:16 DocScrutinizer05, fake solution which doing ubuntu is: create new upstart file "script-stop" which do that job and is started as "start stript-stop" Mar 07 14:13:20 elrazad, yes, with fCam Mar 07 14:14:30 there is 4x or 8x burst mode, although "burst" is quite slow, keep that in mind Mar 07 14:14:47 don't expect to get 8 pictures in 0,5 second Mar 07 14:15:02 think rather about 2-3 seconds for 8 Mar 07 14:15:04 Pali: I suggest another approach: a script that gets started by upstart job/control file, does all the needed sysfs setup for charging, and has a `trap "stop-charging" EXIT` that gets executed when upstarts kills this "daemon" Mar 07 14:15:07 Pali: anyway, i think that we eventually condensed all the discussion about when to shutdown as "configurable, defaulting to EDV1 *flag*" Mar 07 14:15:28 kerio, nope Mar 07 14:15:35 edv1 flag itself doesn't calibrate Mar 07 14:15:40 so? Mar 07 14:15:43 it need to be for 15 seconds Mar 07 14:15:48 no, you're wrong :) Mar 07 14:15:50 without going to 0 again Mar 07 14:16:01 EDV1 flag is set when the voltage is below EDV1 for 15 seconds or whatever Mar 07 14:16:14 ough, is yes, it would be easy approach Mar 07 14:16:20 *if Mar 07 14:16:24 but user configurable gconf as addition is a must :) Mar 07 14:16:25 DocScrutinizer05, I do not want to have running some FAKE processes... Mar 07 14:16:37 why not? Mar 07 14:16:41 DocScrutinizer05: bme isn't part of maemo semantics, imo Mar 07 14:16:46 why? Mar 07 14:17:01 btw, there is no /sys init code for bme replacement Mar 07 14:17:04 things that rely on "stop bme" will probably not work properly with the bme replacement anyway Mar 07 14:17:09 all doing kernel when loading bq modules Mar 07 14:17:59 Pali, so summing it up (I'll write wiki article AGAIN in a hour or so...) - you need to check for edv1 FLAG, not voltage, and shutdown device few secdonds later Mar 07 14:18:24 as edv1 flag is set after edv1 voltage was for 15 seconds Mar 07 14:18:30 i wonder how to make my script work now, though Mar 07 14:18:32 kerio: upstart however is the standard way to start and stop services on upstart systems. charging as well as hostmode/vboost are such services Mar 07 14:18:33 without checking every second Mar 07 14:18:37 but please, please, allow gconf setting of limit manually Mar 07 14:18:39 too Mar 07 14:18:58 DocScrutinizer05, not services, but daemons Mar 07 14:19:01 Estel_: thank you Mar 07 14:19:07 and hostmode/vboost is not daemon Mar 07 14:19:16 Pali: not daemons but services Mar 07 14:19:26 upstart is for 1) starting/stopping daemons and 2) starting scripts Mar 07 14:19:31 hm, DocScrutinizer05, but it would complicate automatic usb hostmode like Pali's? kernel approach seems more sane, less bugs-prone and easier to understand Mar 07 14:19:47 elrazad, you're welcome :) Mar 07 14:20:01 Estel_: automatic kernel based hostmode? wtf?? Mar 07 14:20:13 DocScrutinizer05, see usbmode Mar 07 14:20:16 ~usbmode Mar 07 14:20:17 DocScrutinizer05: fwiw, the result of "stop bme" isn't quite clear, even in stock maemo Mar 07 14:20:17 DocScrutinizer05, not services but daemons, look into upstart code Mar 07 14:21:28 DocScrutinizer05, really upstart does not support services... so this cannot be fixed on maemo (or any upstart based system)... Mar 07 14:21:53 I played with upstart more times, not possible Mar 07 14:22:03 infobot, usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658&highlight=usbmode Mar 07 14:22:03 okay, Estel_ Mar 07 14:22:15 /etc/events.d/shutdown - a *deamon*? Mar 07 14:22:27 infobot, no, usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658 Mar 07 14:22:27 okay, Estel_ Mar 07 14:22:33 ~usbmode Mar 07 14:22:34 hmm... usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658 Mar 07 14:22:55 pin-query - a *deamon*? Mar 07 14:23:21 DocScrutinizer05, daemons and tasks Mar 07 14:23:28 see irc log Mar 07 14:23:38 so a service is no task? Mar 07 14:23:42 aka scripts, but not services Mar 07 14:23:56 task is something which can be started and is immediately stopped Mar 07 14:24:09 uhuh Mar 07 14:24:26 DocScrutinizer05, you cannot call to stop stopped task Mar 07 14:24:30 so it is not service Mar 07 14:24:34 ubuntu goes around it by "start foobar-stop" but it's lame Mar 07 14:24:41 and we don't want it in maemo Mar 07 14:24:49 so whatever your definition, a shellscript that sets up and also stops charging is either of both Mar 07 14:25:08 and do want to start and stop charging immedtiately?? Mar 07 14:25:25 this is what will do upstart task Mar 07 14:25:50 upstart daemon: start, run, stop Mar 07 14:25:57 upstart task: start, stop Mar 07 14:26:33 so when you tell upstart to start task it will do: run start script and then run stop script Mar 07 14:26:33 file a bug against upstart (joking) Mar 07 14:26:39 DocScrutinizer05 ^^^^ Mar 07 14:26:56 so bme replacement charging is *not* upsatrt task Mar 07 14:27:33 sorry that starts to be fapping with definitions pulled outa somebody's back end Mar 07 14:27:59 SysV init daemon calling stop script always Mar 07 14:28:18 upstart init daemon calling stop script only if daemon is still running Mar 07 14:28:20 tbh I don't give a F about this stuff being called a daemon, a task, a process, or a frablldrpft Mar 07 14:28:39 I shall name my next variable into frablldrpft Mar 07 14:28:45 pft Mar 07 14:28:46 DocScrutinizer05, upstart does not support what you want Mar 07 14:29:14 you can report bug to ubunut (upstart maintainer), that is all :D Mar 07 14:29:40 bs, obviously it does, it's just pali don't want a fake process Mar 07 14:30:02 because that fake process doesn't qualify for dunnowhat Mar 07 14:31:12 yes, because bme replacement goal is to remove BME process Mar 07 14:31:22 says who? Mar 07 14:31:36 I Mar 07 14:31:59 why on the earth there must be some process which doing nothing?? Mar 07 14:32:31 then it is stupid implementation Mar 07 14:32:41 because upstart can't execute a script when calling `stop foobar` Mar 07 14:32:53 but why we want it anyway? the fake process doing nothing?a Mar 07 14:32:54 and why we need it?? Mar 07 14:32:55 when there's no such process Mar 07 14:33:15 we can have a script that unload modules and load them, on user's discretion Mar 07 14:33:19 to run proper setup & teardown of charging Mar 07 14:33:33 erm, but it works already via sysfs entries? Mar 07 14:33:37 loading and unloading kernel drivers should not be done by users... Mar 07 14:33:53 I've set mine up to always charge at 1250 mA, no need for setting it manually Mar 07 14:33:54 DocScrutinizer05, setup is in kernel Mar 07 14:34:06 that's shit Mar 07 14:34:25 kernel drivers should be loaded by some hotplug daemon ... Mar 07 14:34:55 Pali, but if user want, he can prepare his script to be run as root, it's free choice. if we need to stop bme replacement for any reason, like calibration till bugs are fixed Mar 07 14:35:00 yeah, battery hotplug, suuuure Mar 07 14:35:00 we have blacklisted it... which is not proper way Mar 07 14:35:22 DocScrutinizer05, I mean hotplug of kernel device structures Mar 07 14:35:29 DocScrutinizer05: by "takedown of charger" you mean "stop telling anything to bq24k and default to emergency charge"? Mar 07 14:36:10 unloading modules does just that Mar 07 14:36:24 by takedown of charger i mean "echo stop >/sysfs/*/bq24150/mode" Mar 07 14:38:11 but that's not what `stop bme` in stock maemo does! Mar 07 14:39:30 yes, it basically is exactly that Mar 07 14:40:10 it stops bme from writing any values to bq24150, incl tickling watchdog Mar 07 14:40:24 DocScrutinizer05: off mode in bq24k-charger is actually off Mar 07 14:40:35 aka it keeps petting the watchdog Mar 07 14:40:50 that's a bug then Mar 07 14:41:02 you can also turn off watchdog by some sysfs entry Mar 07 14:41:07 but I do not remember name :-) Mar 07 14:41:20 sysnode mode reg[bit:bit] values semantics Mar 07 14:41:21 watchdog r/w 0[7] "reset" (w) write 1 to TMR_RST to reset watchdog, stops auto Mar 07 14:41:50 **stops auto** is the key here Mar 07 14:41:57 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt Mar 07 14:42:08 sysfs node name is "timer" Mar 07 14:42:25 echo off > timer Mar 07 14:42:31 this is not a timer, but meh Mar 07 14:42:40 echo auto > timer Mar 07 14:42:52 DocScrutinizer05, in datasheet it is under "timer" name Mar 07 14:43:11 the datasheet is not written for linux Mar 07 14:43:23 in linux a timer has a clear meaning Mar 07 14:43:39 this however is a watchdog, no timer Mar 07 14:44:02 you can send patch to upstream for discusstion :-) Mar 07 14:44:15 you can tell e.g. from the fact that this register doesn't provide any time values at all Mar 07 14:46:01 it's clearly a watchdog which you can reset and switch to "auto" mode (you can't enable/disable it due to the way the chip works) - however you can't read or write any time values to it Mar 07 14:46:55 so it's no timer for any meaning of timer as used in linux world Mar 07 14:47:38 and stopping bme is exactly this basically: not continuing to tickle the timer Mar 07 14:51:30 while *starting* bme should write some user defined values from /etc/our-new-great-charging to sysnodes of bq24150 to configure it for proper charging Mar 07 14:52:04 we don't want to rely on kernel hardcoded defaults or module loadtime parameters for that Mar 07 14:53:22 and a shellscript 10liner that does exactly this on upstart start newbme and upstart stop newbme while lingering around doing nothing the rest of the time is just fine in my book Mar 07 14:54:45 nobody ever (except pali a few minutes ago) claimed that the topmost goal of bme-replavcement was to get rif of any and all bme processes in userland Mar 07 14:55:09 to get rid* Mar 07 14:56:01 DocScrutinizer05: to get rid off bme process which doing nothing Mar 07 14:56:27 original goal of bme-replacement been to gain control over bq24150 and allow switching to charging, boostmode, whatnot else and stop nonsense like premature shutdown Mar 07 14:57:09 DocScrutinizer05: original goal was to have FOSS BME replacement Mar 07 14:57:09 Pali: the process *is* doing something, on startup and on exit Mar 07 14:57:34 no, that's absolutely the least goal in this whole effort, freemangordon Mar 07 14:57:56 Pali: what are the goals of bme replacement? Mar 07 14:58:10 since FOSS in itself is an achievement only for Mr RMS Mar 07 14:58:12 DocScrutinizer05: you may check the (c) in libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme Mar 07 14:58:42 DocScrutinizer05: I guess the author knows better than you what his goal was Mar 07 14:59:01 so only fools and RMS are doing something just to tag a FOSS label on it Mar 07 14:59:16 the point was about the original goal Mar 07 14:59:27 not about your vision of what fool is ;) Mar 07 14:59:34 the author of what? of the original idea of bme replacement? Mar 07 14:59:39 that's me then Mar 07 14:59:55 the author is the one that writes some code Mar 07 15:00:10 as we speak for BME replacement... Mar 07 15:00:31 I was talking about original bme replacement effort though, not about original bme replacement code Mar 07 15:00:48 oh, right Mar 07 15:01:07 in this case the effort predates the code by far Mar 07 15:02:56 DocScrutinizer05: original goal as I know it is to have FOSS replacement to be used other OSes Mar 07 15:03:26 because BME was/is one of the biggest obstacles Mar 07 15:04:06 DocScrutinizer05, goals: removing BME binary and allow charging on all systems (not only maemo), auto charging in kernel, switching to boost mode for hostmode, allow to change any bq24x property via sysfs, allow bq calibrate Mar 07 15:04:19 :nod: Mar 07 15:05:06 DocScrutinizer05, something missing? Mar 07 15:05:35 freemangordon: again incorrect. while mer had some need for a FOSS bme replacement, the major drive came from hostmode Mar 07 15:05:46 Pali: sounds correct Mar 07 15:05:54 my goal is *not* introduce new fake process because upstart is stupid Mar 07 15:07:20 you can create your own script which set bq values as you want (disable, wd, turn of charger, whatever...), but default behaviour is to charge battery when charger is connected Mar 07 15:07:29 freemangordon: to port maemo to other platforms, we have way larger obstacles than just bme Mar 07 15:07:58 better: port hildon-desktop to other platforms Mar 07 15:08:20 wtf got hildon desktop to do with bme? Mar 07 15:08:29 why we using maemo is not because of nokia daemons like bme, dsme, ... Mar 07 15:09:01 speak for yourself Mar 07 15:09:38 I bet that there is no man who using maemo because of BME and DSME Mar 07 15:10:21 well, I'm not exactly eager to use a maemo that's missing both Mar 07 15:11:11 and just a hildon-desktop ported to $randomOS won't lure me in either Mar 07 15:12:22 btw DSME is a poor example since it's already open source Mar 07 15:12:29 maybe use mce rather Mar 07 15:12:51 even mce plugins Mar 07 15:13:06 since mce kinda open as well Mar 07 15:13:12 partially Mar 07 15:15:41 I'm using maemo beause it works ( - with some closed blobs -), not *despite* it works with some closed blobs Mar 07 15:17:03 before I used SHR/openmoko despite it did not really work despite some closed blobs e.g for gfx Mar 07 15:17:38 DocScrutinizer05: you missed my point. I was not talking about porting maemo to other devices, but porting other OSes to n900 Mar 07 15:18:16 so how did I miss the point? Mar 07 15:18:32 freemangordon: to port maemo to other platforms, we have way larger obstacles than just bme Mar 07 15:19:00 so doesn't same apply for porting $OS to N900? Mar 07 15:19:25 and wtf would we bother about other OS? This is #maemo Mar 07 15:19:33 hehe Mar 07 15:19:46 I am discussing BME, ont $OS Mar 07 15:19:51 *not Mar 07 15:19:56 :shrug: Mar 07 15:20:23 [2013-03-07 16:02:57] DocScrutinizer05: original goal as I know it is to have FOSS replacement to be used other OSes Mar 07 15:20:40 so? Mar 07 15:21:01 I am not allowed to write that on #maemo, or what? Mar 07 15:21:27 to be used other OSes != not $OS Mar 07 15:22:08 you lost me on what you wanna state Mar 07 15:22:10 DocScrutinizer05: BTW sorry for the typo, you should read that as "to be used with other OSes" Mar 07 15:22:50 however, I am on my way home, bbl Mar 07 15:23:46 Pali: ack on possibility to write scripts to set up bme-replacement different to what it comes up with by default. Basically that's been exactly whyt I suggested Mar 07 15:23:55 what* Mar 07 15:25:56 cmt for example starts automatically when battery inserted / device powered on, then gets configured by NOLO, then again by linux cmt drivers, then a third time by rtcom-or-whatever from userland Mar 07 15:27:41 it's not like we got only one config/init for a subsystem and that would be mutually exclusive with any other machinery bringing up and tearing down a service/resource Mar 07 15:29:39 when bq24150/bme-repl comes up on module load just fine and in auto-charge mode, that's pretty fine. That doesn't mean we couldn't handle that resource in a more specialized manner later on which is in line with standard concept of resource handling in linux for a particular system Mar 07 15:32:27 in SHR resp FSO this would be fsodeviced, on upstart systems it seems that would be upstart as long as no better middleware around. The middleware been bme before, now we might consider replacing that braindead "middleware" bme by a better concept and a better middleware designed around upstart Mar 07 15:50:31 alternative: vastly augment hald-addon-bme to support all the needed functions in bme-repl and thus take over the role of resource-handling middleware Mar 07 15:52:04 as a general rule there should be generally only *pne* system using sysfs nodes, and that is the middleware that takes care of arbiting the resource to other consumers Mar 07 15:52:14 *one* Mar 07 15:54:02 while it *might* (or might not, depends) be ok to _reead_ from a sysfs node (or a /dev/device) by multiple instances, it's generally a nogo to allow write access to more than one process in a system Mar 07 15:55:05 this one process is the middleware taking care about that resource, and all other interested processes shall talk to the middleware rather than mess with sysfs nodes Mar 07 15:55:49 so what's our middleware to switch to hostmode? Mar 07 15:56:46 is it upstart, hald-addon-bme, $yet-to-define-other-process ? Mar 07 15:57:26 if hald-addon-bme, what's the API? I like to know to fix/adopt H-E-N Mar 07 16:05:05 (btw you can tell above rationale being sound, by simply looking at sysfs node permissions) Mar 07 16:14:13 nhaha, QCPUFreq shows a CPU temperature of 436 °C Mar 07 16:16:42 i guess *something* is wrong there .. and lukily thats possibly not the CPU :) Mar 07 16:17:12 the bug appears to be known... :P Mar 07 16:18:50 one thing I am not sure about in QCPUFreq is when the overclocking takes place Mar 07 16:18:55 immediately, or only when saving the settings Mar 07 16:19:07 i.e. is it safe to just try and see how far the slider goes, or better not ;) Mar 07 16:20:03 (I am not actually planning to overclock, I just want SmartReflex to save some mA...) Mar 07 16:25:12 effects of smartreflex are not really proven Mar 07 16:26:23 does wine on ARM actually work? I thought it doesn't emulate the CPU Mar 07 16:26:35 it does Mar 07 16:26:36 well meanwhile my phone works reasonable well with few days on a charge if used slightly Mar 07 16:26:40 oh, it now does? ok then Mar 07 16:26:41 divVerent: it's winelib Mar 07 16:26:50 but it's slow Mar 07 16:26:53 and i mean proper slow Mar 07 16:26:56 and has threading issues Mar 07 16:27:04 so it does emulate the CPU now... where is the emulation from, qemu? Mar 07 16:27:08 yep Mar 07 16:27:13 there is winelib as well Mar 07 16:27:16 ok, then I kinda know its performance ;) Mar 07 16:27:37 which allows to compile windows applications with no changes to the program Mar 07 16:27:41 what performance can be expected of dosbox? XT? 286? Mar 07 16:27:56 fast enough Mar 07 16:28:05 nice, will try. Let's see if it runs Commander Keen ;) Mar 07 16:31:21 is there BTW a simple command to update the sources.list.d/ file from the hildon XML stuff? Mar 07 16:32:10 oh, found it Mar 07 16:32:15 hildon-application-manager-config update Mar 07 16:32:25 much better than waiting for 2 minutes for the repo list to pop up, then closing it Mar 07 16:33:14 BTW, extras-devel apparently still has "hash sum mismatch" issues, e.g. on the dosbox package Mar 07 16:35:20 jacekowski: out of curiosity: what do you use to compile for wine on ARM? Mar 07 16:36:22 http://maemo.org/packages/view/wine/ BTW it says only ported windows applications compiled for ARM will work Mar 07 16:36:30 does this include Win8 RT binaries? Mar 07 16:40:09 haha, how to even USE dosbox for maemo? I cannot enter the : character, which is kinda needed for entering "C:" Mar 07 16:41:02 Effects of smart reflex ARE proven! Mar 07 16:41:03 "keyb auto gr" makes : work, but swaps Y and Z ;) Mar 07 16:41:46 vi__: hi man, long time no see :) Mar 07 16:41:51 smart reflex was shown to reduce power use under load! Mar 07 16:41:53 FMG! Mar 07 16:42:12 vi__: by how much? Mar 07 16:42:15 8%? Mar 07 16:42:19 ... Mar 07 16:42:23 I cannot remember Mar 07 16:42:26 hehe Mar 07 16:42:27 like 10-20% Mar 07 16:42:31 or something. Mar 07 16:42:48 hmm, sounds too much to me. but ofc it depends on the device Mar 07 16:42:51 17:41:51 vi__ | smart reflex was shown to reduce power use under load! Mar 07 16:42:53 under LOAD? Mar 07 16:43:00 UNDER LOAD! Mar 07 16:43:03 I'd rather have expected it to reduce power when idle ;) Mar 07 16:43:04 :D Mar 07 16:43:12 It does feck all while idle. Mar 07 16:43:12 divVerent: wrong Mar 07 16:43:16 why? Mar 07 16:43:22 does that mean it also undervolts at full clock speed? Mar 07 16:43:25 Because the CPU is off! Mar 07 16:43:29 because of the lowered voltage Mar 07 16:43:42 and for idle ^^^ Mar 07 16:43:42 I had assumed it only undervolts when below 600 MHz Mar 07 16:43:49 no Mar 07 16:45:13 hehe, dosbox is not powerful enough to run The Incredible Machine ;) Mar 07 16:45:34 Through relentless testing I have found for my use case maximum battery life is achieved by SR+250-720MHz overclock. Mar 07 16:46:36 wait, better battery life with some overclocking than without? Mar 07 16:46:58 hehe, TIM doesn't work well anyway, due to lack of ESC key :P Mar 07 16:47:02 about the same. Race to idle and all that. Mar 07 16:47:26 (and right mouse button) Mar 07 16:54:59 DocScrutinizer05: Is it ok ? http://fpaste.org/n5tu/ my chargin LED shows me green Mar 07 16:55:05 No charging neede Mar 07 16:55:14 But the CSOC says it's not full Mar 07 16:55:22 Also Chargin Current does Mar 07 17:25:58 yes, charging stopped and now battery is discharging Mar 07 17:26:19 there's no thing in between charging and discharging Mar 07 17:26:40 charging will kick in eventually again Mar 07 17:27:21 though you'll not see this from LED Mar 07 17:48:32 freemangordon: gcc i think Mar 07 17:49:11 hi is h-e-n is ported to nokia n9 Mar 07 17:49:11 ?> Mar 07 17:49:26 jean_brat: afaik no Mar 07 17:50:29 is there any other usb host app which support usb keyboard/mouse integration ? Mar 07 17:50:56 jean_brat, no usb hostmode for harm Mar 07 17:51:09 freemangordon, is your n950 gathering dust, too? Mar 07 17:51:13 jean_brat: on n9? USB ost mode is not supported. AFAIK Mar 07 17:51:18 Estel_: no Mar 07 17:51:37 right, one could keep it in foil and box = no dust... Mar 07 17:51:46 seriously? Found real life use for it? Mar 07 17:51:51 yes Mar 07 17:51:57 mind to share? Mar 07 17:52:10 mind sharing* Mar 07 17:52:12 Estel_: see on private Mar 07 17:52:18 * Estel_ nods Mar 07 17:52:26 Pali: ping Mar 07 17:52:34 jean_brat: no Mar 07 17:52:56 seriously? H W implementation issue? or the OS? Mar 07 17:53:23 jacekowski, pong Mar 07 17:53:25 kernel Mar 07 17:53:32 Pali: try uploading to garage rather than drop Mar 07 17:53:43 where? Mar 07 17:54:07 garage.maemo.org /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle Mar 07 17:54:08 ? Mar 07 17:54:13 213.128.137.26 Mar 07 17:54:19 same folder Mar 07 17:55:32 not working Mar 07 17:55:48 what is the error this time? Mar 07 17:55:56 http://pastebin.com/4sqKXxHU Mar 07 17:56:11 Connection closed by 213.128.137.26 Mar 07 17:56:15 hmm Mar 07 17:57:17 go back to original setup Mar 07 17:58:23 scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle: No such file or directory Mar 07 18:00:09 again Mar 07 18:01:00 Pali: try again Mar 07 18:01:09 which server? Mar 07 18:01:18 garage or drop? Mar 07 18:01:29 drop Mar 07 18:01:48 uploaded Mar 07 18:01:54 \o/ Mar 07 18:04:27 VCS cpu load seen quite a spike Mar 07 18:06:44 well, not THAT much actually http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/ Mar 07 18:08:33 * Estel_ hugs jacekowski for work on fixing autobuilder Mar 07 18:09:34 ahm Mar 07 18:09:36 wait a second Mar 07 18:09:41 i've disabled cron for buildme Mar 07 18:11:18 builder1 18578 18577 0 19:11 ? S 0:00 | \_ /usr/bin/python -tt /usr/bin/sbdmock -r maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel -u /home/builder1/wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1.dsc Mar 07 18:11:30 divVerent, you're doing it wrong with dosbox Mar 07 18:11:47 see dosbox thread, I've published some nice config for it there, at some point in time Mar 07 18:11:50 TIM works OK Mar 07 18:12:09 only one thing that I've found to be too slow on N900 and dosbox is system shock Mar 07 18:12:14 and it is *almost* playable Mar 07 18:12:22 with correct config Mar 07 18:12:53 heck, some people run windows 3.1 or smth via dosbox Mar 07 18:13:02 without much performance issues Mar 07 18:13:27 as for system shock, it doesn't work perfectly even on desktop's dual core @ 2.5 GHZ, so... Mar 07 18:13:41 (at least on with higher resolutions) Mar 07 18:16:31 Pali: https://213.128.137.26/builder/fremantle/wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1/summary.log Mar 07 18:16:37 Pali: [2013-03-07 20:13:27] wide-dhcpv6 20080615-11.1maemo1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository Mar 07 18:16:58 ok Mar 07 18:23:11 eeek, NOW it's even orange Mar 07 18:23:21 (VCS, ganglia) Mar 07 18:24:02 what was the link Mar 07 18:24:18 http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/ Mar 07 18:24:22 already gone Mar 07 18:24:34 builder1 had a solid spike ;-) Mar 07 18:25:05 pretty much 100% Mar 07 18:27:27 sooooooo... do we have a pkg wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1 in r.m.o_*new* now? :-D Mar 07 18:28:37 freemangordon, since community have - finally - control over autobuilder, maybe, in long term, it would be wise to think about using linaro or smth there? Mar 07 18:28:55 more recent things, that are proven to work flawlessly on N900? Mar 07 18:29:56 or sub-thing like with arm and x86 builds now, it would, lets say, build packages with thumb as 3th variant? just idea, haven't though about feasibility Mar 07 18:30:31 Estel_: it is not me to convince :P Mar 07 18:30:47 it is not us to pester *now* Mar 07 18:31:03 thumb is an option Mar 07 18:31:06 we're more than happy when shit starts to work as it once did Mar 07 18:31:27 thumb indeed seems simple though Mar 07 18:32:26 of course, I don't mean doing it all at once Mar 07 18:32:38 I just tend to think with quite wider horizon, already Mar 07 18:32:53 if this shit proves to work stably, we could think about doing things that nokia prevented us Mar 07 18:33:08 like upgrading ancient components there, that blocked many great things Mar 07 18:33:19 * Estel_ entered excited user mode Mar 07 18:33:54 btw auto thumb option would help much too, instead of current pestering every maintainer about sending thumb version of program to merlin Mar 07 18:34:56 so it could be first thing to try, with caution. BTW, jacekowski, where have you learned autobuilder things? Mar 07 18:35:14 we need to start educating further generations, if you would get hit by a bus in a week time Mar 07 18:35:21 not suggesting anything :P Mar 07 18:35:29 i've build my own autobuilder while back Mar 07 18:35:36 with a bit of x-fade help Mar 07 18:35:47 although, that was only buildme/sbdmock part Mar 07 18:35:53 ok, but where have you learned how to start? documentation, or just master-padawan relationship with x-fade? Mar 07 18:36:08 i've used different repo manager Mar 07 18:36:11 I feel uneasy, when such critical things are one-man show Mar 07 18:36:20 i've asked x-fade what he used Mar 07 18:36:23 downloaded packages Mar 07 18:36:24 read sources Mar 07 18:37:17 hm, and that was the thing that no one could try, talking about it like arcane magic? so, someone who would like to learn itp, should just download packages, read sources, and ask you, in casew of any confusion? Mar 07 18:37:36 (xonsidering that x-fade is away, you're the only one yoda around, pardon the pun) Mar 07 18:37:38 and Mar 07 18:37:43 http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html Mar 07 18:37:48 oh Mar 07 18:38:00 judging by name, looks like holy grail Mar 07 18:38:16 scharfe Neuigkeiten! Ihre Bestellung mit der Bestellnummer Mar 07 18:38:18 AUF-B-2025 wurde verschickt. Mar 07 18:38:18 packages ae here Mar 07 18:38:19 Folgende Artikel liefern wir mit dieser Sendung an Sie aus: Mar 07 18:38:20 2 x B403794 Western Digital WD20NPVT Green 2TB - 2,5'' / SATA II / I.Pow Mar 07 18:38:39 http://bifh.org/wiki/sbdmock Mar 07 18:39:26 DocScrutinizer05, wtf? Mar 07 18:39:32 thanks, jacekowski Mar 07 18:39:59 if you think about it, what backgound skill/knowledge would be required before starting it? or it is not much related to anything else? Mar 07 18:40:01 http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/extras-cauldron/trunk/buildme/ Mar 07 18:40:22 depends Mar 07 18:40:32 wtf is cauldron? Mar 07 18:40:46 svn with all the goodies Mar 07 18:41:27 oh, I'm sure it does. I just try to assemble a required-knowledge tree, for new generations interested in keeping maemo autobuilder alive and maybe even extend it a little Mar 07 18:41:42 so thing you'ved described are highest branch, tools and documentation about autobuilder Mar 07 18:42:25 Estel_: my autobuilder used sbdmock + scratchbox + reprepo + buildme Mar 07 18:42:25 now I'm trying to find out leaf aka skills required, with roots being general knowledge about doing anything on linux-based system in terminal Mar 07 18:42:32 * Estel_ nods Mar 07 18:42:44 any reason why maemo's autobuilder uses different manager? Mar 07 18:42:48 now, maemo autobuilder is completly different beast Mar 07 18:42:54 it manages multiple repositories Mar 07 18:42:57 package promotion Mar 07 18:43:02 caching Mar 07 18:43:04 ah, yes Mar 07 18:43:20 and it integrates into a lot of other stuff Mar 07 18:43:38 but it should still be possible to get, mentally, hugged by one or two people, without years spend on arcane learning? Mar 07 18:43:59 well, depends Mar 07 18:44:26 bear in mind that there was a lot more wrong with it Mar 07 18:44:45 from xen through nfs, missing mounts old config files, to autobuilder itself Mar 07 18:44:48 haha, I was just to ask what the fuck was wrong with maemo's autobuilder after/during/pre migration Mar 07 18:45:15 more than you'd like to know Mar 07 18:45:41 and fixing that, requires years of arcane learning Mar 07 18:45:46 I'm impressed that you guys managed to catch most of it in so short time frame since starting Mar 07 18:46:10 all kudos to jacekowski and xes Mar 07 18:46:16 and warfare of course Mar 07 18:46:26 I just hope that after fixing it, our student magicians will have enough time to learn it piece by piece, before next catastrophe requiring master level of magic Mar 07 18:46:48 we have slaves? Mar 07 18:46:52 * DocScrutinizer05 declares those 3 for maemo community member heroes of the month Mar 07 18:47:00 thats why I'm thinking about motivating someone (or myself) to start learning it early :P Mar 07 18:47:03 jacekowski, haha Mar 07 18:48:10 jacekowski, don't get me wrong, I don't mean getting "rid" of you - I just imagine, that you may be, sometimes, too ocuppied with real life thing or other projects, to maintain maemoms autobuilder Mar 07 18:48:18 even leaving bus incident alone Mar 07 18:48:40 so it would be good to have someone else, or more people, that knpw this shit, it seems to be niche in Maemo community Mar 07 18:49:01 to date, I know only about you and x-fade, as for people that know how this shit works, and x-fade is MIA Mar 07 18:49:39 one man shows are dangerous thing, and I'm perfectly sure Council will be interested to secure maemo's back here Mar 07 18:49:52 i only knew how half of this shit works 3 days ago Mar 07 18:50:08 :) Mar 07 18:50:50 could you be bothered to document things, that you have learned and wasn't in documentation, using the fact that memories are still fresh? Mar 07 18:51:06 you know, at least some spells in spellbook Mar 07 18:51:40 in case you or anyone else would need to fix it again in 2 years time, when no one will remember (including you) how it was exactly done Mar 07 18:51:42 i've had no look at it i knew that buildme looks for stuff in one folder and if it sees .dsc file there, it starts building stuff using sbdmock Mar 07 18:51:52 ehh Mar 07 18:52:02 s/i've had no look at it // Mar 07 18:52:22 and that goes back to another folder and repo management takes it from there Mar 07 18:53:03 and repo management was the real problem Mar 07 18:53:18 (and there are some kinks that i'll have to iron out) Mar 07 18:54:33 I'm dully noting, I'll try to create wiki page about things to start when aiming at learning autobuilder Mar 07 18:55:03 including links you've provided, and mirrors of those things, and... Mar 07 18:55:59 now, the question is - how we can ensure that you have a vine/beer/whatever on us? Mar 07 18:56:37 (aka donation page or whatever) Mar 07 18:57:37 (don't expect fortune, I just thing that some people, like me, would like to show appreciation, by a small donation) Mar 07 19:05:09 north Korea W*T*F?! Mar 07 19:07:06 what does this furuncle on the world*s anus DimKlongILL or what's his name think who he is? Mar 07 19:07:57 err, sorry, no politics Mar 07 19:22:41 any idea how to spot battery eating app? Mar 07 19:23:30 jacekowski: does the new RMO use reprepro then? Mar 07 19:24:26 nope Mar 07 19:24:53 :( Mar 07 19:25:01 so no hope for pdiff support? Mar 07 19:25:41 why? Mar 07 19:26:51 idk Mar 07 19:26:54 is there hope? Mar 07 19:27:18 pdiffs are tough Mar 07 19:27:27 for many reasons Mar 07 19:27:40 but possible Mar 07 19:28:46 now here goes serious question, although, unrelated to repos: Mar 07 19:29:19 I need to find a file on my device. It is text file (config), that contains, somewhere in it's content, a phrase "xbindkeys" without quotes Mar 07 19:29:28 grep Mar 07 19:30:02 Estel_: `grep -R xbindkeys /path/to/untarred/backup` on your computer Mar 07 19:30:04 :) Mar 07 19:30:30 hehe, my question was about most effective way to search for it on device Mar 07 19:30:44 as regular grep takes ages Mar 07 19:30:45 meh, why bother Mar 07 19:31:04 maybe some optimizations via modifiers, like filtering out files bigger than something? Mar 07 19:31:12 or non-text ones? Mar 07 19:31:31 how do you find out which files are text files? run "file" on them? :) Mar 07 19:31:34 umm, that gets funny then Mar 07 19:31:41 kerio, because many times my N900 is with me instead my notebook Mar 07 19:31:59 (as for why bother) Mar 07 19:32:13 get a charger Mar 07 19:32:17 DocScrutinizer05, yea, thats why I've asked, after reading ton of manualp,s mind you Mar 07 19:32:24 jacekowski: haha Mar 07 19:32:36 s/manualp,s/manuals/ Mar 07 19:32:37 Estel_ meant: DocScrutinizer05, yea, thats why I've asked, after reading ton of manuals mind you Mar 07 19:32:38 Estel_: you have absolutely *no* general idea of where it could be? Mar 07 19:32:47 get proper find first Mar 07 19:33:12 kerio, absolutely, but I may risk assumpting that it is soemwhere on root, and run search excluding root later, if that fails Mar 07 19:33:32 DocScrutinizer05, maemo's find is borked? 0_o Mar 07 19:33:38 ~messybox Mar 07 19:33:38 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Mar 07 19:33:50 it's not borked, it works fine, but it doesn't have all the options gnu find has Mar 07 19:33:58 for instance, iirc it doesn't have -xdev Mar 07 19:33:59 -power one too? Mar 07 19:34:41 then something like find / -ipath -filetype -iname "*cfg" -size -NNNN -exec 'grep xbindkeys {} ; ' shoud so Mar 07 19:35:04 DocScrutinizer05, thanks, will test it Mar 07 19:35:28 iname cfg must go away, as I don't know if it have cfg extension, i just know that it's plan text config file :( Mar 07 19:35:53 it'll still take quite some time Mar 07 19:36:10 the n900's io is kinda slow, you just gotta accept it Mar 07 19:36:20 you'll need to adapt the find parameters anyway. I already spotted two typos/errors I made Mar 07 19:36:29 man find Mar 07 19:36:40 I'm setting up N900 (protected in otterbox) as first computer for my 4 years old son... He asked me for one since a year or so, and I promised that if I manage to repair one of damaged ones that I have, it will be his :) just repaired one Mar 07 19:36:56 DocScrutinizer05, sure, have this man opened anyway Mar 07 19:37:22 now, there was a thing to run some program as *user* everytime device boots Mar 07 19:37:31 /etc/event.d/ runs as root, sadly... Mar 07 19:37:33 a .desktop file Mar 07 19:37:35 not sadly Mar 07 19:37:41 but sadly in this case Mar 07 19:37:44 also su user command :P Mar 07 19:37:49 very funny, i need it to be done automagically Mar 07 19:38:00 xbindkeys is quite picky Mar 07 19:38:03 meh, use a autostart .desktop Mar 07 19:38:06 indeed Mar 07 19:38:11 it just won't wok properly from event.d, rest assured Mar 07 19:38:13 also, wouldn't xbindkeys also work as root? Mar 07 19:38:21 DESKTOP=:0.0 xbindkeys Mar 07 19:38:27 not for my use case :P Mar 07 19:38:31 autostart desktop? Mar 07 19:38:45 running shit with weird environments is what unix is all about! Mar 07 19:38:55 beware, autostart .desktop REstarts processes Mar 07 19:39:01 that, and using `write` to mess up your friend's screen session Mar 07 19:39:32 the thing is that vi once told me conveinent place to put it, so it's executed on every startup, as user, properly, but I can't remember it for a life of mine, and vi doesnt catch pings Mar 07 19:39:35 DocScrutinizer05, hm Mar 07 19:40:21 I have no slightest idea about autostart .desktop's in maemo, need to read about it Mar 07 19:40:21 for one time X related progs, it's probably xsession you want to tweak (iirc) Mar 07 19:40:39 may be, where it is located? Mar 07 19:40:46 may it be* Mar 07 19:40:51 (C enya) :P Mar 07 19:40:57 i'm not entirely sure maemo uses a standard xsession setup Mar 07 19:41:03 and also make sure to not bork it Mar 07 19:41:18 sorry, been a guess off top of my head, nfc for maemo Mar 07 19:41:19 because it'll mess your booting up Mar 07 19:41:29 DocScrutinizer05, no worries, will search for that name pattern Mar 07 19:41:39 on normal unices, it's ~/.Xsession Mar 07 19:41:46 kerio, sure, I'll just find if such file have "xbindkeys" somewhere on my device Mar 07 19:41:48 er, .xsession Mar 07 19:42:25 /etc/event.d/xsession Mar 07 19:42:28 lol Mar 07 19:42:36 I looked into this problem several times since N810 Mar 07 19:42:55 never could come up with a really decent solution Mar 07 19:43:40 I'll remember to share this ugly hack, if I manage to re-find it Mar 07 19:43:56 it wasn't tweaking /etc/event.d/xsession, sadly Mar 07 19:44:31 exec su - user /etc/X11/Xsession Mar 07 19:45:07 looks like /etc/X11/Xsession.d is the place Mar 07 19:45:47 use this in upstart: exec su user -c "exec " Mar 07 19:46:07 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1912 26. Dez 16:01 Xsession.d │ Mar 07 19:46:20 Pali: ugly Mar 07 19:46:36 DocScrutinizer05, otherwise it will have upstart side effects Mar 07 19:46:44 /etc/X11/Xsession.d Mar 07 19:47:25 hm, this should work too Mar 07 19:47:38 somewhere around 87my-awesome-app Mar 07 19:48:17 since: Mar 07 19:48:20 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 200 16. Okt 2009 60mission-control │ Mar 07 19:48:21 │-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 72 02. Okt 2009 65hildon-sv-notification-daemon │ Mar 07 19:49:26 ah, bad news, ubuntu is going to use some parts of systemd... Mar 07 19:50:04 Pali: URL? Mar 07 19:50:21 is there any list of linux distributions which 1) now not using systemd and 2) will never use systemd ? Mar 07 19:50:36 02maemo-launcer and 42maemo-launcher are an awesome pair XP Mar 07 19:51:05 gentoo, debian... Mar 07 19:51:11 is there a list of cheap killers? Mar 07 19:51:28 +you often have the choice still... Mar 07 19:51:33 NIN101: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTMyMDE Mar 07 19:51:44 thanks guys Mar 07 19:51:52 yw Mar 07 19:52:06 NIN101, how about debian & systemd? Mar 07 19:52:07 n900-dk_: ping - you having trouble with and app? Mar 07 19:52:30 hm, it's a pity, btw, that I can't check what started process, that is still runing (xbindkeys that is running since start) Mar 07 19:52:39 are you sure that debian will not move to systemd too? Mar 07 19:52:40 probably you, manually :P Mar 07 19:52:53 not that soon probably + you have the choise there I am sure. Mar 07 19:52:55 nope :P Mar 07 19:53:07 NIN101: not quite, udev is meant to work tightly coupled with systemd Mar 07 19:53:18 kick udev then. Mar 07 19:53:29 and what to use instead udev?? Mar 07 19:53:29 Pali, canonical suck, time to admit it... hm, does Arch use systemd? Mar 07 19:53:39 mdev Mar 07 19:53:47 Estel_, yes Mar 07 19:53:50 btw what's the problem with systemd? Mar 07 19:54:05 I think arch was first distriubtion which started using systemd Mar 07 19:54:10 dbus-dependency, the author. Mar 07 19:54:21 Estel_, not possible to debug it Mar 07 19:54:28 create your own distro, it's joy of foss/linux :D Mar 07 19:54:31 this is why I hate systemd Mar 07 19:55:01 NIN101, mdev is only subset of udev and does not support anything which is needed Mar 07 19:55:12 for example auto kernel modules loading Mar 07 19:55:15 and what systemd authors say about debug problem? Mar 07 19:55:23 which is needed for hotplugging (usb devices) Mar 07 19:55:34 ~poettering Mar 07 19:55:39 it is not a subset, it's a busybox applet. Mar 07 19:55:59 subset of functions Mar 07 19:56:09 does not support all what udev Mar 07 19:56:16 instead of bashing ~poettering, I'm really interested how the go around it, even if sane distributions like arch use it Mar 07 19:56:34 s/the/they/ Mar 07 19:56:36 Estel_ meant: instead of bashing ~poettering, I'm really interested how they go around it, even if sane distributions like arch use it Mar 07 19:56:48 I don't think that no one cares there about debugging Mar 07 19:56:53 of course it doesn't, but I can survive with it... Mar 07 19:57:10 for example 2 days ago I got mail that arch linux freeze when turning pc off because application wpa_actiond is not exiting... Mar 07 19:57:21 there is also this new eudev udev fork, but I didn't take a look into it. Mar 07 19:57:28 I tested and kill -9 also kill -SIGINT working without problem Mar 07 19:58:22 NIN101, authors of eudev said something that udev fork is not for using... Mar 07 19:58:55 Estel_: archlinux and sane don't go well in the same phrase Mar 07 19:58:56 Estel_, another is that systemd using binary logs Mar 07 19:59:19 is has stupid confguration Mar 07 19:59:23 I just can't belive that they're all insane into jumping on systemd, if it's all that bad... Just curious, I have no idea about it Mar 07 19:59:28 no direct support for shell scripts... Mar 07 19:59:33 hm Mar 07 19:59:40 so why the hell they want to use it? Mar 07 19:59:58 Estel_, because it using massive paralelism when starting daemons Mar 07 20:00:09 mhm Mar 07 20:00:10 and propably system can be booted quickly Mar 07 20:00:41 erm, maybe supportt enchancdement tickets into systemd and make it more friendly for debugging? :D Mar 07 20:00:51 ~systemd Mar 07 20:00:52 and it has that takes care of everything, you need nothing else feeling like busybox ;) Mar 07 20:00:55 and they using it because it developed in red hat, so it must be working.... Mar 07 20:01:47 Estel_: systemd is monotlitic replacement for all init daemons, login codes, poettering kits, ... Mar 07 20:01:57 hey, I just realized that maemo isn't using it? :D Mar 07 20:02:15 yes, maemo does not have systemd :-) Mar 07 20:02:41 hm, sounds like pulseaudio being "replacement" to all sound related bits Mar 07 20:02:46 monolithic too Mar 07 20:03:01 Estel_: maemo is using something worse Mar 07 20:03:01 indeed Mar 07 20:03:02 upstart Mar 07 20:03:06 pulseaudio is also written by poettering Mar 07 20:03:17 upstart is better when systemd! Mar 07 20:03:57 upstart has daemon configuration in one file + support for shell scripts Mar 07 20:04:11 and it drives me insane Mar 07 20:04:12 regulary Mar 07 20:04:19 systemd has even bigger problem Mar 07 20:04:36 it is not working properly :-) Mar 07 20:04:47 and is not replacement for sysv init daemon Mar 07 20:04:47 it has same author as PA Mar 07 20:04:53 indeed! Mar 07 20:04:55 well, maybe debian won't adopt it ;) Mar 07 20:05:10 I belive that debian is not blind Mar 07 20:05:26 and now I need to migrate from ubuntu somewhere... Mar 07 20:05:45 Estel_: there is systemd support in debian alredy Mar 07 20:06:04 merlin1991, but it's not mandatory, yet Mar 07 20:06:26 Pali, debian, gentoo... does mint use systemd? Mar 07 20:06:38 upstart, i guess Mar 07 20:06:40 mint is ubuntu Mar 07 20:07:03 mint is using upstart as ubuntu Mar 07 20:07:09 btw what is best alternative to systemd/upstart, and why no distribution is using it? :D Mar 07 20:07:19 I once booted a debian with a #!/bin/sh shellscript just for the fun, and because I could. Mar 07 20:07:29 that init daemon which used archlinux before systemd Mar 07 20:07:37 openrc or similar name Mar 07 20:07:48 what's wrong with sysv init? Mar 07 20:07:57 kerio, nothing :-) Mar 07 20:08:21 above daemon is one of sysv init implementation Mar 07 20:09:00 but support dependences + parallelism (if you want it) Mar 07 20:09:01 well, only one thing that keeps me using windows regularly, are games, IIRC... and some tax-related shitty aps being available for windoze only, but that can be workarounded Mar 07 20:09:52 once, I need to set up wine related things for games on my linux and get rid of windoze from my HD... It's just that all library resolving shit is quite pushing me away from movuing my ass into doing it, still I know one day I'll must Mar 07 20:10:17 Estel_: why not invest in a crossover games license? Mar 07 20:10:27 no way I'm installing anything never than XP from micro$, and some day, in ten or more years, it wo't be enough for games, too Mar 07 20:10:29 it's pretty much wine, but with preconfigurations Mar 07 20:10:31 kerio, wut wut? Mar 07 20:11:09 hey, I'm not switching to linux to use closed source blobs where not required, graphic catd drivers are enough pain itself :P Mar 07 20:11:29 but crossover games is neat! Mar 07 20:11:36 unless you're talking about something else that I think you're talking Mar 07 20:11:51 what is that crossover games thing. never heard about it (googleing) Mar 07 20:13:34 sixwheeledbeast: Yes, I guess so, the battery gets eaten like candy, but I'm afraid, that I have no clue on which app is eating amps Mar 07 20:14:01 ok, I know what it is Mar 07 20:14:09 knew it under other name? Mar 07 20:14:29 idk, perhaps cedega? it's not the same thing, but it's similar Mar 07 20:14:31 n900-dk_: ~powertop Mar 07 20:14:36 anyway, what is it offering for those hard bucks, kerio? just wine with configs, that I can do myself, and learn soemthing during the process? Mar 07 20:15:00 Estel_: it's basically a professional version of winetricks with a fancier UI Mar 07 20:15:04 WTF? wine is now using poettering's RealtimeKit Mar 07 20:15:24 wine devs are blind too??????? Mar 07 20:15:54 blinded by the poett Mar 07 20:16:44 hey, maybe poett is just right and you're wrong? :P Mar 07 20:16:50 just teasing. Mar 07 20:16:53 this is not normal what is happening these days Mar 07 20:17:06 Pali: upstart depends on fucking dbus Mar 07 20:17:25 kerio, now every app depens on dbus Mar 07 20:17:28 a friend of mine had the bad idea of installing ubuntu server on his hetzner box Mar 07 20:17:41 it's a fucking server, i shouldn't need the desktop bus Mar 07 20:18:24 kerio, now it is cool to use dbus, systemd, lennartkits, ... Mar 07 20:19:28 somebody, please wake up me from this bad dread... and tell me that was only dream Mar 07 20:19:42 it was only a bad dream Mar 07 20:19:42 "there is no lennart, no systemd, no kits, ..." Mar 07 20:19:47 provided by poettering's new DreamKit Mar 07 20:20:03 kerio, btw, as you have experience with it already - using wine api calls and services equivalents, games run on same/better speed than on windoze, or still performance is an issue? Mar 07 20:20:21 Estel_: afaik opengl works a lot better on linux :D Mar 07 20:20:30 My desktop hardware is quite old, and it doesn't seem having chances of getting upgraded Mar 07 20:20:39 opengl sure, but directx shit... Mar 07 20:20:46 directx doesn't work Mar 07 20:21:08 I know, but games using it are still possible to run on linux, yep? Mar 07 20:21:21 via redirecting to opengl calls? Mar 07 20:21:32 idk, i think so? Mar 07 20:21:44 I'm not interested in direct 10 or above shit, directx9 games is all I need Mar 07 20:22:40 I'm just thinking if migrating to linux completely and getting rid of windoze at all is sane in my case, when related to games, as hardware isn't newest one Mar 07 20:23:06 kerio, "dreamkit" - this could be good motivation poster about lennart Mar 07 20:23:14 :D:d Mar 07 20:23:17 especially, graphic card - while a beast in itself, it have nice few years... 5 or so? :P Mar 07 20:23:42 a 5 years old graphics card... Mar 07 20:23:43 or more? Mar 07 20:23:53 so basically a modern integrated graphics chip? :P Mar 07 20:23:58 Nvidia (fuck nvidia on linux, I know) 8600GT Mar 07 20:24:02 very funny Mar 07 20:24:11 I can assure you that this card is still a beast Mar 07 20:24:26 managed to play witcher 2 on medium details at more than 20 constant fps :P Mar 07 20:24:35 from start to beginning, playable :P Mar 07 20:24:52 overclocked 50% from basic settings Mar 07 20:25:07 the thing is, that it is notebook :D Mar 07 20:25:09 sixwheeledbeast: What should I especially look for in powertop? Mar 07 20:25:14 just used as desktop Mar 07 20:25:24 n900-dk_: wakeups frequency Mar 07 20:25:28 average time on C4 Mar 07 20:25:46 I travel much, so in old days i required notebook, now N900 is my travl (and not only) computer, with ssh and vnc (if needed) access to notebook sitting as desktop Mar 07 20:25:57 (( Estel_, because it using massive paralelism when starting daemons)) well, aiui my sysV init on suse does that since ages Mar 07 20:25:58 Dell XPS 1530m Mar 07 20:26:22 no, it was m1530 Mar 07 20:26:27 DocScrutinizer05, I wrote that there is normal sysv init daemon with this support Mar 07 20:26:29 DocScrutinizer05: i told you multiple times, nobody uses suse :P Mar 07 20:26:31 just do not remember name Mar 07 20:26:33 bought it used at real bargain 4 years ago or so Mar 07 20:26:43 suse, what is suse? Mar 07 20:26:45 joking Mar 07 20:27:13 BTW there is a shop company in poland, with frog logo, that got suse stickers on every window Mar 07 20:27:18 Total wakeups 6657, 221.9/s - normal? Mar 07 20:27:20 smth about powered by suse Mar 07 20:27:31 n900, pastebin whole powertop output Mar 07 20:27:35 n900-dk_: holy fuck, no Mar 07 20:27:44 and be sure to lock device after powertop execution and not touching it for minute Mar 07 20:27:46 well, unless you're using it Mar 07 20:28:10 DocScrutinizer05, suse is OK for everyday usage? Mar 07 20:28:17 screen is of and it is on charger Mar 07 20:28:20 it's a desktop distro, sure Mar 07 20:28:38 DocScrutinizer05, is your init daemon systemd?? Mar 07 20:28:39 Estel_: well, I use it everyday since >10 years Mar 07 20:28:46 I'm using aptosid debian on desktop, still thinking about best distro for me (power user eager to leafrn new things, but not coder yet, and requiring some things just working :P) Mar 07 20:29:10 what's aptosid? Mar 07 20:29:10 n900-dk_: can you pastebin top and sudo powertop o/p Mar 07 20:29:14 I just realized that I missed spying on suse, when I checked on every distro's + and - Mar 07 20:29:20 Pali: alas yes, since last update. Suse switched to systemd for default, but it still supports sysV init as an option Mar 07 20:29:30 it seem quite quiet system, which may be not a bad thing Mar 07 20:29:36 meh, debian sid wannabe Mar 07 20:29:42 kerio, aptosid is debian sid + patches + kde Mar 07 20:29:48 so they will remove sysv init in future... Mar 07 20:29:59 you know what is debian sid + patches + kde? Mar 07 20:30:00 debian sid Mar 07 20:30:02 so suse is not for use anymore too :-( Mar 07 20:30:26 kerio, aptosid have own set of patches too, before they reach sid :P Mar 07 20:30:30 it's sid+ Mar 07 20:30:31 http://pastebin.com/rhHFiybs Mar 07 20:30:40 powertop output Mar 07 20:30:43 sid-power Mar 07 20:30:44 :P Mar 07 20:31:22 n900 dk, have you locked device and haven't touched it for powertop operation? Mar 07 20:31:29 n900-dk_, I mean Mar 07 20:31:52 ohh wait, batterygraph was running Mar 07 20:32:00 will try again Mar 07 20:32:23 n900-dk_, wait Mar 07 20:32:31 before test, enable flight mode Mar 07 20:32:33 offline mode Mar 07 20:32:44 terminate all running things that you don't need Mar 07 20:32:46 and test it Mar 07 20:33:01 ok Mar 07 20:33:06 if results will be good (current ones are very bad), test it with again, enabling things one by one Mar 07 20:33:12 until you find cullprint Mar 07 20:33:34 your cpu doesn't sleep almost at all, something is hogging it Mar 07 20:33:37 what is normal wakeupfreq? Mar 07 20:34:14 hard to say, but in total idle (no wifip no gsm, etc), you should get ~97% in C4 Mar 07 20:34:24 aka hardest sleep Mar 07 20:34:35 n900-dk_: as estel with screen off ~500, main thing is C4 time Mar 07 20:35:01 sixwheeledbeast, are you aware that autobuilder is becoming alive again? :D Mar 07 20:35:12 :o yes Mar 07 20:35:17 wikipedia about systemd: Debian GNU/Linux has packages for systemd in the "testing" branch. There is reluctance amongst developers to make systemd the default, since Debian GNU/kFreeBSD will not work with systemd. Mar 07 20:35:34 who is going to support kFreeBSD?? Mar 07 20:35:42 Debian :P Mar 07 20:35:59 I see supporting kFreeBSD as very good idea Mar 07 20:35:59 heh, still 98,1% in C1 in flight mode Mar 07 20:36:16 debian then will not move to systemd Mar 07 20:36:22 but only 3455 total wakeups ;) Mar 07 20:36:41 n900-dk_ anything happening in top, rogue process? Mar 07 20:36:43 >> wikipedia: systemd has been proposed as an external dependency of GNOME 3.2 by systemd's author. << Mar 07 20:37:01 Xorg is on top Mar 07 20:37:17 2-3 %CPU Mar 07 20:37:26 all the time? what's below? Mar 07 20:37:32 this is nonsense that DE will depends on systemd... Mar 07 20:37:35 hildon-status-menu Mar 07 20:38:07 h-s-m using what cpu? Mar 07 20:38:17 0,5-1 % Mar 07 20:40:32 when I start powertop it writes 'Unknown job: pmtrackerdaemon' Mar 07 20:41:00 n900-dk_: this is normal Mar 07 20:41:41 you got new powertop op in flight mode? Mar 07 20:42:40 yes Mar 07 20:42:44 there's something going on for the device to be running at 500Mhz / C1 all the time Mar 07 20:45:13 wonder what I have done.. Mar 07 20:45:27 n900-dk_: persist after reboot? Mar 07 20:48:29 n900-dk_: you installed crappatch? Mar 07 20:48:41 just rebooting.. Mar 07 20:48:55 don't think so - try to keep away from them Mar 07 20:49:03 crappatch can do that to your N900 Mar 07 20:49:45 battery eye was installed, but guess it is not crappatch Mar 07 20:50:31 also some desktop widgets are known to give a shit about not bein visible, rather updtae their diplay 10 times / second. Causing shitload on X11 Mar 07 20:50:51 one of the battery monitors been one of those Mar 07 20:51:23 will kill batterygraph before next powertop Mar 07 20:51:26 though I guess it's been battery usage app, which did exactly that: use battery Mar 07 20:51:55 way too many app devels are fools with no clue, honestly Mar 07 20:52:42 but gives a nice picture of battery Mar 07 20:52:55 lol, great Mar 07 20:53:01 while true; do print "Battery usage: TOO MUCH"; done Mar 07 20:53:11 ;-P Mar 07 20:53:16 kinda exactly that Mar 07 20:53:21 it works! Mar 07 20:53:34 yeah, and it's actually always right Mar 07 20:53:38 n900, try deleting all widgets from desktop, and terminating all batteryeye/graph like programs Mar 07 20:53:39 at least I could see a great change in former usage of battery Mar 07 20:54:07 N90 but it's fake graph, as it uses bme data Mar 07 20:54:11 so only voltage Mar 07 20:54:29 which is useless, anyway, as you have dedicated hardware for better measurement Mar 07 20:54:40 bq27x00 chip :) Mar 07 20:54:53 which is capable of, essentially, variable current monitoring Mar 07 20:55:01 and even that is mostly useless, since battery display is useless by design Mar 07 20:55:10 damn, now 11043 wakeups, even in flight mode after reboot Mar 07 20:55:20 it doesn't tell you much useful info Mar 07 20:55:26 (even most pro li-ion chargers for models are capable of only constant current charge/discharge monitoring) Mar 07 20:55:49 DocScrutinizer05, for me bq27... gives much useful info :P Mar 07 20:56:18 n900, have you tried deleting all widgets and stopping battery monitoring things? Mar 07 20:56:36 yeah, but for 'normal' user all he really needs to know is "battery empty soon" and that's exact enough from stock battery applet Mar 07 20:56:44 I suspect something tickling cpu few times a second, not a powerful cpu hog Mar 07 20:56:49 so it keeps it from sleeping Mar 07 20:57:04 everything beyond is highly accurate metering of random numbers Mar 07 20:57:06 DocScrutinizer05, accurate capacity percentage is useful too Mar 07 20:57:10 dont like battery empty so soon and fast ;) Mar 07 20:57:14 and current used during doing certain activities Mar 07 20:57:28 sure, that's you Mar 07 20:57:36 n900-dk_: is stuff still loading? what's in top? battery monitors pointless IMO Mar 07 20:57:38 DocScrutinizer05, true, but percentage is quite accurate to the single percent Mar 07 20:57:55 yes, but what does that tell lusers? Mar 07 20:58:17 duh only 30% left over *PANIC* Mar 07 20:58:17 well, due to batteries being bootleneck, even lusers on every os including androtoy and appleshit are quite interested in getting battery infoi Mar 07 20:58:25 sixwheeledbeast: I waited 5 mins, then stuff should have been loaded right? Mar 07 20:58:26 so they could put their $$$ devices in fridge Mar 07 20:58:29 and charge it there Mar 07 20:58:31 and monitor Mar 07 20:58:36 or "og still 30% left over *DROOL*" Mar 07 20:58:42 and get excited, that they used more current to charge Mar 07 20:58:56 n900-dk: expect so Mar 07 20:59:04 :P Mar 07 20:59:15 exactly Mar 07 20:59:20 bogus useless info Mar 07 20:59:25 might be a good time to reflash after 3 years.. Mar 07 20:59:35 hey, but I care about my use case, not lusers one :P Mar 07 21:00:14 n900-dk_: possibly a dodgy app/widget, more likely the latter. Mar 07 21:00:25 thats why I want to be able to set bme replacement to shut my device down at 3000 mV, not freaking higher, as it's about 70 mA gain from edv1 using dual cell :P Mar 07 21:00:33 just to be clear: You start powertoy, close keyboard and lock device and wait? Mar 07 21:00:37 s/possibly/probably Mar 07 21:00:43 n900-dk_, just kill widgets Mar 07 21:01:33 n900-dk_: yep then wait +30 secs Mar 07 21:01:58 and it is ok to have charger connected? Mar 07 21:02:09 ah Mar 07 21:02:33 this maybe why powertop wakeups so high Mar 07 21:03:07 no charger! Mar 07 21:03:16 ok, will wait for a little charge then, and try again Mar 07 21:03:26 without charger Mar 07 21:05:27 hi all Mar 07 21:06:32 something happened to extras-devel? every package install i'm trying from there last time fails when checking md5 sum Mar 07 21:08:25 vdv: hashsum mismatch? Mar 07 21:08:43 yes, i mean hashsum Mar 07 21:08:48 after downloading a file Mar 07 21:08:54 ~mirrors Mar 07 21:08:54 extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Mar 07 21:08:56 apt-get doesn't work Mar 07 21:09:29 sixwheeledbeast, thanks Mar 07 21:09:49 vdv: np Mar 07 21:10:40 is there any app for tracking minutes/seconds during a call? which will notify at the end of each minute for example Mar 07 21:10:53 or maybe any ideas, how can that be implemented Mar 07 21:12:10 my network charges for every minute Mar 07 21:13:15 so, if make a call with duration 1 min 1 sec, i have to pay for 2 min Mar 07 21:14:17 Estel_: ping ^^^ - IIRC you did something like this Mar 07 21:15:05 hmm, now 35% in C2 and 48% in C3 in normal mode Mar 07 21:15:25 what is typical for your devices in normal mode? Mar 07 21:15:29 n900-dk_: what did you kill? Mar 07 21:15:41 can i make the unlock button unlock automatically instead of bringing the slide screen on Mar 07 21:15:51 just did the powertop with out charger Mar 07 21:15:55 sixwheeledbeast, DocScrutinizer05 suggested program doing things like that, and it was great - just not for my use case, due to lack of mms integration (no existing solution for it) Mar 07 21:16:09 i'm asking because 'repair' man broke the unlock switch Mar 07 21:16:16 but it was able to count minutes, and even sms derived from minutes pool Mar 07 21:16:22 vdv: ^^^ Mar 07 21:16:35 tommis, hopw he broke it? Mar 07 21:16:41 desoldered from PCB? Mar 07 21:16:53 otherwise, it's quite unbreakable, and you may be able to repair it Mar 07 21:17:31 n900, still bad Mar 07 21:17:31 Estel_, what's the name of a program? Mar 07 21:17:54 can't recall it, DocScrutinizer05? i pinged you for this case Mar 07 21:18:40 (it was a set of scripts rather than program, but still working great). No idea about counting every minute as full when started, but could be easily tweaked to act like that Mar 07 21:18:51 tommis: i guess you mean power button Mar 07 21:19:16 one day, if I becomed a great coder :P I'll prepare another version of fmms with hook to counting mms's too Mar 07 21:19:18 Estel_: there's a thread on tmo with scripts in Mar 07 21:19:32 sixwheeledbeast, it was that IIRC Mar 07 21:19:42 sixwheeledbeast, he mean slider Mar 07 21:19:48 slide switch Mar 07 21:20:05 slider broken but power key to unlock Mar 07 21:20:05 I suspect that just plastic part got borked Mar 07 21:20:09 yes Mar 07 21:20:29 well, no idea, in pocket it would unlock all the time Mar 07 21:20:38 that what i mean he means power key not unlock key Mar 07 21:20:40 if only power button would be required Mar 07 21:20:45 yes, got it Mar 07 21:20:46 so why he wants to change behavior of lockswitch when lockswitch is borked? Mar 07 21:21:00 he want powerkey to unlock insta Mar 07 21:21:02 button and slide annoying? Mar 07 21:21:20 slide on screen is annoying for him Mar 07 21:21:28 not to be confused with slide switch Mar 07 21:21:45 you can't change behaviour of a broken component, since it knows only one state: defect Mar 07 21:21:52 no idea about that one, repairing slide switch sounds like fastest way :P Mar 07 21:22:14 DocScrutinizer05, what he want is to have powerkey unlocking device without "slide to unlock" lockscreen Mar 07 21:22:23 because his side slider is defect Mar 07 21:22:30 hardware one Mar 07 21:22:40 and he want to get rid of software one :P Mar 07 21:22:52 it's more complicated to explain than it should be :P Mar 07 21:23:08 so lets say it like that - he want to get rid of apple's-like "slide to unlock" Mar 07 21:23:08 meh, check what moh did Mar 07 21:23:17 qtlockscreen? Mar 07 21:23:24 yep Mar 07 21:23:30 but it's stil lockscreen with some action required to unlock :P Mar 07 21:23:39 I suspect sliding on screen is as good Mar 07 21:23:41 so patch it Mar 07 21:23:58 hm, a patch that would make it disappear immediately? :P Mar 07 21:23:59 shake to wake? eats battery tho Mar 07 21:24:06 exactly Mar 07 21:24:07 MAG would be proud of us :P Mar 07 21:24:29 a patch to his program that makes this program gtfo from user eyes, haha Mar 07 21:24:29 sixwheeledbeast: no, shouldn't Mar 07 21:24:34 I like the concept Mar 07 21:24:35 g-meter has IRQ Mar 07 21:24:51 DocScrutinizer05, shaking during walking would wake it up, probably (unlock) Mar 07 21:25:08 sounds fine Mar 07 21:25:16 BTW, anyone got decent idea to fight fact, that screen got unlocked when someone ring you? Mar 07 21:25:27 speaking from experience when testing the app Mar 07 21:25:37 no problem for me, but my mother's N900 in bag always hit something on it's own, then Mar 07 21:25:52 sixwheeledbeast: depends on how you readout g-meter Mar 07 21:26:00 most of the times "drop call" red button Mar 07 21:26:05 of course you mustn't poll ;-P Mar 07 21:26:25 but polling is the way most developers seems to know about, only :P Mar 07 21:26:38 even devs of such nice thing as proximityd Mar 07 21:27:07 with means no jedi control over device for me, as it eats too much battery doing nothing Mar 07 21:27:17 (although works great in dosbox as some button) Mar 07 21:27:21 hmm, yes. which reminds me. n900-dk_: how you getting on? Mar 07 21:27:29 i'm trying to do apt-get install fennec, but i get E: Handler silently failed Mar 07 21:27:38 what does mean? Mar 07 21:27:42 vdv, as said earlier, ~mirrors Mar 07 21:28:05 i've added http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ Mar 07 21:28:07 really, no one have idea how to permit n900 from unlocking touchscreen, when phone rings? Mar 07 21:28:09 Estel_: even worse: qtm knows polling only, for sensors Mar 07 21:28:13 how to deny* Mar 07 21:28:19 DocScrutinizer05, lol Mar 07 21:28:28 I don't trust qt in anything :/ Mar 07 21:28:42 atmobility is borked, qtradio allows only mono... Mar 07 21:29:03 s/atmobility/qtmobility/ Mar 07 21:29:04 Estel_ meant: qtmobility is borked, qtradio allows only mono... Mar 07 21:29:16 qt got fucked up thoroughly, with qt4 Mar 07 21:29:25 and it took kde with it Mar 07 21:29:28 I just can get rid of feeling that every qt application for N900 is worse than gtk conterpart Mar 07 21:29:45 that reminds me i haven't got fennec thumb to work yet crashes on startup Mar 07 21:29:45 freemangordon, ^^^that is what i was talking about, when bitching about qt earlier Mar 07 21:29:46 since then it got only worse Mar 07 21:29:48 here is my hildon-application-manager.list http://pastebin.com/84Y6HPUg Mar 07 21:30:04 sixwheeledbeast: C4 | 82.9% | 98.7ms - looks better I guess, but still 2980 wakeups Mar 07 21:30:15 not to mention that I don't like having qt and gtk loaded at the same time in memory Mar 07 21:30:31 can anybody share consistent list of repositories? Mar 07 21:30:39 n900-dk: good good Mar 07 21:30:39 n900-dk_, I suspect you won't get better results with your set of applications installed, it's pretty ok now Mar 07 21:30:48 vdv: Mar 07 21:30:51 ~mirrors Mar 07 21:30:51 mirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Mar 07 21:31:08 vdv: the latter of the list for devel Mar 07 21:31:23 ok, might also be broken battery, but will keep an eye on how fast it's drained Mar 07 21:31:26 there is also cssu mirror repo Mar 07 21:31:39 sixwheeledbeast, but there's also extras-devel in first link Mar 07 21:31:40 n900-dk_, battery doesn't have anything to do with wakeups Mar 07 21:31:55 vdv, yea, extras devel @ merlin is best for your use case Mar 07 21:31:58 n900-dk_ from powertop output expecting a widget or the like Mar 07 21:32:03 ooooor you go.... for rmo_*new* ;-P Mar 07 21:32:20 DocScrutinizer05, it isn't working like that yet, is it? Mar 07 21:32:23 /etc/hosts? Mar 07 21:32:32 :nod: Mar 07 21:32:43 just don't use HAM Mar 07 21:32:55 ah, just autobuilder need more work, then? so when DNS records are going to get redirected into new one? Mar 07 21:33:12 whoknows *sigh* Mar 07 21:33:22 ough, some problems with it? Mar 07 21:33:33 only problem: Nokia Mar 07 21:33:36 no big deal, just curious Mar 07 21:33:38 haha Mar 07 21:33:48 so this domain ownership discussion was about that Mar 07 21:33:56 nah Mar 07 21:34:04 that been about scatchbox Mar 07 21:34:23 so, considering that repos are working and autobuilder is going to be working soon, we may return to normal soon, too? Mar 07 21:34:33 and maemo got basically free hosting for at least year? Mar 07 21:34:57 HiFo isn't standing in the way of using our free hosting from those kind guys? Mar 07 21:35:06 yes Mar 07 21:35:18 sounds nice, maemo may live after all :D Mar 07 21:35:32 well, when i fight then for winning Mar 07 21:35:47 well, so now, only one big issue is messing with legal mess about HiFo, statute, etc, and lesser mess with domain ownership? Mar 07 21:36:05 yep Mar 07 21:36:20 and then, the smallest mess with migrating TMO to some FOSS engine, when we don't have anything else to do? :P Mar 07 21:37:19 * Estel_ just can't wait 'till doc loses all his thanks Mar 07 21:37:21 ;) Mar 07 21:37:58 meh, already lost them, my karma isn't sufficient to run for next council term Mar 07 21:38:02 \o/ Mar 07 21:38:13 0_p? Mar 07 21:38:36 joking, right? or tmo stopped getting recalculated for karma? Mar 07 21:38:41 got 89, need 200 Mar 07 21:39:24 * sixwheeledbeast starts looking for posts where he hasn't thanked joerg Mar 07 21:39:41 sixwheeledbeast: won't help Mar 07 21:39:55 i know karma broken IIRC Mar 07 21:40:00 tmo thanks not calculated for karma anymore Mar 07 21:40:45 we should replace that by a karma from IRC ;-P Mar 07 21:40:47 was this to be fixed? Mar 07 21:41:05 hey, I can't login into maemo.org Mar 07 21:41:10 (not tmo) Mar 07 21:41:13 IRC karma? how Mar 07 21:41:18 DocScrutinizer05, we have irc logs :-) Mar 07 21:41:21 yeah, how? Mar 07 21:41:40 nicks on IRC are bogus Mar 07 21:42:04 logs have no way to check registration Mar 07 21:42:05 link registred irc name to maemo.org account Mar 07 21:42:34 Estel_: no login on m.o for a while IIRC Mar 07 21:42:35 and even then, how the heck calculate karma from IRC? Mar 07 21:42:46 will spambots get most karma ever? Mar 07 21:42:49 I can think of a number of wrong ways :) Mar 07 21:43:05 sixwheeledbeast: Does this luck ok, or can you spot something odd? http://pastebin.com/NWYZKNcw Mar 07 21:43:10 sixwheeledbeast, so maemo org accounts won't be working? DocScrutinizer05? Mar 07 21:43:12 * Woody14619 suggests 1 point per each million lines logged. ;) Mar 07 21:43:32 Estel_: for me e.g garage and bugs works Mar 07 21:43:38 spam posts? Mar 07 21:43:47 garage does, I mean maemo.org for wiki etc Mar 07 21:43:48 DocScrutinizer05, look here for logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23maemo/20130306.html.gz Mar 07 21:43:48 what's not working is www.maemo.org/* Mar 07 21:44:05 DocScrutinizer05, I see. Do we know why? Mar 07 21:44:14 strange, i'm using mirror, but still getting hash sum mismatch Mar 07 21:44:17 E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing? Mar 07 21:44:17 still under investigation Mar 07 21:44:43 I see. Well, for wiki it worksp so no big deal Mar 07 21:44:59 just that no one willing to candidate for council could be able to link tmo account Mar 07 21:45:01 vdv: remembered to disable rmo? Mar 07 21:45:03 to his profile Mar 07 21:45:06 and such things Mar 07 21:45:13 it works for *.m.o but not for m.o/* Mar 07 21:45:30 n900-dk_, i don't know what rmo mean :) Mar 07 21:45:48 ~rmo Mar 07 21:46:02 grrr Mar 07 21:46:10 remote mobile objects Mar 07 21:46:20 ~r.m.o Mar 07 21:46:29 dafaq Mar 07 21:46:31 n900-dk_: not perfect but vast improvement I normally get ~92% C4 and ~500 wakes Mar 07 21:46:33 ~ping Mar 07 21:46:33 ~pong Mar 07 21:46:34 )) Mar 07 21:46:41 ~listvalues garage.maemo Mar 07 21:46:43 Factoid search of 'garage.maemo' by value (5): tablet-encode ;; rm_you #DEL# ;; mediautils ;; microb ;; #maemo gmo. Mar 07 21:46:45 ~tell Mar 07 21:46:58 ~#maemo gmo Mar 07 21:46:58 [#maemo gmo] garage.maemo.org Mar 07 21:47:01 DocScrutinizer05, strange, I can log in for wiki, but when i search for my contribs, nothing is found Mar 07 21:47:05 ~gmo Mar 07 21:47:05 rumour has it, gmo is garage.maemo.org Mar 07 21:47:11 ~rmo Mar 07 21:47:11 (trying to create bme replacement wiki page for Pali ) Mar 07 21:47:18 o.O Mar 07 21:47:19 sixwheeledbeast: must kill more stuff, thx :) Mar 07 21:47:27 missed to define that? Mar 07 21:48:00 ~literal gmo Mar 07 21:48:01 "#maemo gmo" is "garage.maemo.org" Mar 07 21:48:01 ~gmo. Mar 07 21:48:01 it has been said that gmo is garage.maemo.org Mar 07 21:48:06 vdv: you should disable normal repository and only use mirror Mar 07 21:48:10 I also lost allmy wiki subscribtions during migration Mar 07 21:48:15 DocScrutinizer05, ^ Mar 07 21:48:32 ~#maemo rmo is repository.maemo.org Mar 07 21:48:33 DocScrutinizer05: okay Mar 07 21:48:45 n900-dk_, for each category? Mar 07 21:48:51 Estel_: sure? Mar 07 21:49:04 or just no more notification mails? Mar 07 21:49:11 which is a known problem Mar 07 21:49:12 if, say, i want to use extras-devel mirror, then i remove normal extras-devel of course Mar 07 21:49:18 vdv: the devel one you are using mirror for Mar 07 21:49:23 DocScrutinizer05, absolutely - I'm logged as "estel", and my subscribed wiki articles count is 0... Mar 07 21:49:32 now 1, as I've added stub Mar 07 21:49:35 :-o Mar 07 21:49:37 for bme replacement Mar 07 21:49:44 shit Mar 07 21:50:00 expected that you may to know about that eagerly ;) Mar 07 21:50:05 may want to know* Mar 07 21:50:12 I wonder what get broken Mar 07 21:50:18 db Mar 07 21:50:21 my guess Mar 07 21:50:29 some table not migrated Mar 07 21:50:51 blame Nemein Mar 07 21:51:05 DocScrutinizer05, probably Mar 07 21:51:07 sixwheeledbeast, do i need only one repository entry? Mar 07 21:51:10 I'll look into it Mar 07 21:51:20 or rather Mar 07 21:51:28 when i, for example, check history of "ereswap" article, my edits are mentioned as belonging to "estel" Mar 07 21:51:36 although, while searching for my edits, 0 results Mar 07 21:51:42 here is what i had before: http://pastebin.com/84Y6HPUg Mar 07 21:51:46 so something isn't right too about it Mar 07 21:52:14 when i check forf, lets say, sixwheeledbeast edits, it also returns 0 Mar 07 21:52:14 Estel_: could you please write a proper bug report mail (with exact problem, since when probably it exists, how to reproduce etc) to support@nemein.com and CC techstaff@maemo.org please Mar 07 21:52:25 ok... Mar 07 21:52:33 vdv: disable testing for now too Mar 07 21:52:42 just a little more debugging to check what doesn't work Mar 07 21:52:45 Estel_, I have same problem Mar 07 21:53:01 page https://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Contributions/pali is empty Mar 07 21:53:18 Estel_: good boy :-D Mar 07 21:53:46 sixwheeledbeast, fremantle free non-free ? Mar 07 21:54:02 for http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ i mean Mar 07 21:54:08 Pali: well start contributing then Mar 07 21:54:33 kerio, I edited kernel cssu page Mar 07 21:54:38 vdv, this is not meant to be a hashsum-errror free mirror Mar 07 21:54:40 vdv: best use merin1991.at for devel as above not we.drop Mar 07 21:54:46 but my list is still empty Mar 07 21:54:51 yes for the rest Mar 07 21:54:52 ~mirror Mar 07 21:54:53 i guess mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Mar 07 21:54:53 Pali, he joked Mar 07 21:55:20 Pali, it would be good if more people would sent complains to support@nemein.com Mar 07 21:55:27 sixwheeledbeast, DocScrutinizer05: but does merin1991.at contain extras-testing for example? Mar 07 21:55:35 no, it would NOT Mar 07 21:55:53 vdv: nobody needs testing Mar 07 21:56:06 at the moment anyway Mar 07 21:56:10 DocScrutinizer05, no need for more reports to them? sure? Mar 07 21:56:29 ok Mar 07 21:56:33 Estel_: yes, absolutely sure that duplicate reports will make matters worse Mar 07 21:56:47 kerio, btw, funny question: do you know ogden lemma for RL? Mar 07 21:56:56 normally I agree, I was just curious about special situation with x-fade MIA for us Mar 07 21:57:53 Estel_, todat I already sent two emails Mar 07 21:58:50 x-fade isn't MIA anymore, just reporting "WFM" Mar 07 21:58:58 DocScrutinizer05, which repos are else recommended? Mar 07 21:59:06 he's allegedly looking into autobuilder next week Mar 07 21:59:25 vdv: only maemo-extras Mar 07 21:59:52 and extras-devel if you need to install some particular pkg not available from extras Mar 07 21:59:54 so, maemo-extras and extras-devel ? Mar 07 22:00:01 ok Mar 07 22:00:18 but extras-devel is meant to get disabled after installation of any package Mar 07 22:00:42 I know it sucks, but that's the way it is Mar 07 22:00:58 DocScrutinizer05: Estel_ said you know a prog which can monitor call duration and notify Mar 07 22:01:02 it sucks less with merlin's extras-devel-light repo mirror Mar 07 22:01:27 vdv: lemme find it for you, while you read on Mar 07 22:01:28 DocScrutinizer05, why should extras-devel be disabled? Mar 07 22:01:31 ~jrtools Mar 07 22:01:31 jrtools is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Mar 07 22:01:38 DocScrutinizer05, you remember this nice program from tmo to log minutes anc sms and costs? I can't recall it's name for a life of mine Mar 07 22:02:00 * DocScrutinizer05 neither, that's why I need to find it Mar 07 22:02:09 vdv, because you may get something unstable upgraded. But you can leavde it enabled, if you're carefull about what you upgrade Mar 07 22:02:31 the half of it are calllog SQL scripts from ~jrtools though Mar 07 22:02:51 Estel_, i never accept updates from ui package manager Mar 07 22:03:06 will swamp you with "packages that have updates" every day Mar 07 22:03:27 DocScrutinizer05, untill you disable HAM autoupdate Mar 07 22:03:34 :-P Mar 07 22:03:38 by setting it to update every 3k years or so Mar 07 22:03:44 wiki remembers uploaded images but none of the changes per user Mar 07 22:03:53 every 50 recommended Mar 07 22:03:55 and, fanfares use fapman for updates :P Mar 07 22:03:57 haha Mar 07 22:04:09 Estel_, i remember i did that Mar 07 22:04:16 sixwheeledbeast, thanks, will add comment about images to my report Mar 07 22:04:28 added a big number to counter Mar 07 22:04:59 so that i don't get updates check on every internet connection Mar 07 22:05:34 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1050432#post1050432 here you are Mar 07 22:05:34 sixwheeledbeast, does it shows subscribtions made after migration? Mar 07 22:05:36 Estel_: fapman :P Mar 07 22:05:44 have you edited any article after migration? Mar 07 22:05:57 sixwheeledbeast, this is package real name :P Mar 07 22:06:21 ever been Mar 07 22:06:25 wiki has images from pre migration but nothing for changes at all Mar 07 22:06:28 ~fapman Mar 07 22:06:29 fapman is, like, Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever Mar 07 22:06:29 sixwheeledbeast, it shows 0 contributions from your side, so I'm interested if you have contributed anything after migration Mar 07 22:07:00 ~botsnack Mar 07 22:07:00 sixwheeledbeast: aw, gee Mar 07 22:07:02 DocScrutinizer05, have you seen my conversation with keiro, where I checked all packages that were rumored to cause problems with fapman... Mar 07 22:07:09 due to pre/post installk/remove scripts... Mar 07 22:07:17 and it turned out that it's all fud? :P Mar 07 22:07:36 :shrug: Mar 07 22:07:38 sixwheeledbeast, again, have you edited any wiki article after migration? Mar 07 22:07:49 I can promise fapman won't work with CSSU Mar 07 22:07:58 yep broken package list and some other stuff Mar 07 22:08:06 ~ham Mar 07 22:08:08 extra, extra, read all about it, ham is Hildon Application Manager. Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does Mar 07 22:08:16 and I also might bet an arm or a leg that fapman does autoremove Mar 07 22:08:34 infobot: no, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU) Mar 07 22:08:35 okay, Estel_ Mar 07 22:09:01 DocScrutinizer05, good point Mar 07 22:09:17 ~forget fapman Mar 07 22:09:17 i forgot fapman, DocScrutinizer05 Mar 07 22:09:24 ~unforget fapman Mar 07 22:09:24 DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'fapman'. Have fun now. Mar 07 22:09:30 ~fapman Mar 07 22:09:30 from memory, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU) Mar 07 22:09:38 meh Mar 07 22:09:41 infobot: no, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. Mar 07 22:09:42 okay, Estel_ Mar 07 22:09:53 DocScrutinizer05, whats wrong with my factoid? Mar 07 22:09:57 busy bot tonight :) Mar 07 22:10:04 it's not your factoid Mar 07 22:10:06 ham doing also autoremove every operation Mar 07 22:10:11 and it not been wrong either Mar 07 22:10:12 it's kerio one, and he agreed :P Mar 07 22:10:19 it have been quite non-informative Mar 07 22:10:30 I don't see him agreeing Mar 07 22:10:31 plenty of snacks to keep it going Mar 07 22:10:37 I want to be fair here, not describing it as super-duper, just stating facts Mar 07 22:10:39 * kerio plays minecraft Mar 07 22:10:43 Estel_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72341&highlight=sms+counter Mar 07 22:11:04 DocScrutinizer05, since when publiv factoids are personal, and, BTW, he agreed when I mythbusted fud about fapman :P Mar 07 22:11:06 I told you not to mess with existing infobot factoids! Mar 07 22:11:11 xes, thanks Mar 07 22:11:33 DocScrutinizer05, wtf? just me can't contribute to them, or what? Mar 07 22:11:36 you got a record for doing that Mar 07 22:11:54 today I added things to bq-calibrating, and you were not bitching about it Mar 07 22:12:07 you *added* stuff Mar 07 22:12:10 so it ratherr looks like your personal antagonity against fapman :P Mar 07 22:12:32 no, it's about general rules regarding factoid edits Mar 07 22:12:33 Maybe we should fire the bot and just use Doc ;) Mar 07 22:12:43 oh, dear, factoid with facts in it, rather than "never use it ever", sounds like fair contribution Mar 07 22:12:52 ok, whatever Mar 07 22:12:52 actually i think that the factoid was changed Mar 07 22:12:55 or deleted Mar 07 22:13:00 ~fapman Mar 07 22:13:01 hmm... fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. Mar 07 22:13:07 the point is, we don't know, because you haven't checked it before changing it Mar 07 22:13:12 ~factinfo fapman Mar 07 22:13:12 fapman -- created by RiD <~GhostRide@2.83.43.131> at Thu Jul 5 20:14:21 2012 (245 days); last modified 3m 31s ago by Estel_!~Estel@Maemo/community/contributor/Estel-; it has been requested 22 times, last by Estel_, 12s ago. Mar 07 22:13:23 yes, I have checked it ?< Mar 07 22:13:38 so how is it kerio's factoid? Mar 07 22:13:47 ough, sorry, kerio once told me he made it Mar 07 22:14:20 that's why you got a very personal infraction to not edit factoids Mar 07 22:14:29 Estel_: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=estel&page=&year=&month=-1 Mar 07 22:14:30 my mistake, anyway, never saw rule that public factoids need permission, to edit, it's just plain stupid. Like someone make ~Docscrutinizer is asshat and you can't edit it cause it is his factoid? Mar 07 22:14:43 pre migration for example Mar 07 22:15:29 DocScrutinizer05, whatever, I know that many things on those irc channels are quite not logical, like user getting bashing for editing factoid to be precise and informative, rather than haters FUBAR Mar 07 22:15:33 also all user names on wiki "were" first char uppercase now not so Mar 07 22:15:35 sixwheeledbeast, I know Mar 07 22:15:45 yes, *you* mustn't edit ~docscrutinizer, no matter who defined it Mar 07 22:15:51 btw you couldn't Mar 07 22:15:53 I just wonder if post-migration contributions are found Mar 07 22:16:00 let's have a voting for a factiod master, oh no, let's make that a board Mar 07 22:17:35 Estel_: the logic is simple: your notion of what's precise and what's haters is simply not better than that of original factoid author Mar 07 22:17:37 never Mar 07 22:17:47 your!!! never ever ever Mar 07 22:18:24 so you can add to facoids, but never redefine them Mar 07 22:18:32 unless they are yours Mar 07 22:19:23 any better app for offline nav than Sygic Mobile? Mar 07 22:19:34 marble Mar 07 22:19:46 dunno if it's "better" Mar 07 22:20:00 monav Mar 07 22:20:12 actually monav does the offline nav Mar 07 22:20:20 doesn't modrana work offline with monav? Mar 07 22:20:20 it supports offline nav? Mar 07 22:20:22 for marble Mar 07 22:20:30 i meant not the deamon but the frontend with vector maps Mar 07 22:20:43 not the package in extras :) Mar 07 22:20:44 I still bet that if I would add "he is also a bitch" to ~docscrutinizer, I would get instaban - but, whatever Mar 07 22:20:45 and voice directions please Mar 07 22:20:55 I've send bug report to nemein, cc'ing techstaff Mar 07 22:20:59 about wiki Mar 07 22:20:59 http://monav.openstreetmap.de/ Mar 07 22:21:05 Estel_: again, you can't Mar 07 22:21:30 DocScrutinizer05, *rolleyes* because it's locked, but it was just example Mar 07 22:21:43 let it be ~kerio is a bitch, same result Mar 07 22:21:45 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:MoNav_03_Maemo.png << that ui Mar 07 22:21:59 no, i would ignore that ;-P Mar 07 22:22:01 no, *you* are a bitch Mar 07 22:22:08 or lock it X-P Mar 07 22:22:22 n900-dk_, ModRana seems like most actively developed nav program for N900 Mar 07 22:22:32 with all functions you've described as required Mar 07 22:22:39 offline? Mar 07 22:22:46 leave it to kerio to delete or edit it and lock his factoid Mar 07 22:22:48 2nd would be Marble, although, lack some major things like sqlite tile storage Mar 07 22:22:54 modrana can cache tiles and preload them Mar 07 22:22:55 also, just to remind you Mar 07 22:22:56 ~kerio Mar 07 22:22:57 well, kerio is kerio is right Mar 07 22:22:57 (= tiles consume MUCH more space) Mar 07 22:23:00 Estel_: But no voice directions right? Mar 07 22:23:06 why the heck would *I* care? Mar 07 22:23:34 n900-dk_, voice directions too in modrana Mar 07 22:23:55 via espeak Mar 07 22:23:57 i almost only use monav nowadays .. Mar 07 22:24:02 Estel_: damn, espeak is no go Mar 07 22:24:09 n900-dk_, why so? Mar 07 22:24:18 cehteh, modrana uses monav bits too :P Mar 07 22:24:25 Can't understand it Mar 07 22:24:29 and abusing google satellite is funny Mar 07 22:24:32 how can i make opera default browser on my n900? Mar 07 22:24:35 there is some developent version with speech support for monav somewhere, i havent used it yet Mar 07 22:24:39 it's so amazing Mar 07 22:24:56 n900-dk_, I suppose you could add your own voiceset from other program to be used by modrana? Mar 07 22:25:02 WTF would anybody store tiles in sqlite? Mar 07 22:25:03 M4rtinK, is it ^ possible? Mar 07 22:25:09 vdv: browser-switchboard Mar 07 22:25:15 DocScrutinizer05, because every tile is small and you waste rest of block Mar 07 22:25:25 meh Mar 07 22:25:25 thousand of tiles = hundred of wasted megabytes Mar 07 22:25:31 or even gigabytes Mar 07 22:25:39 (not hundreds :P ) Mar 07 22:26:09 it's 3x-4x less space used for tile, or more, if you use 8bit maps Mar 07 22:26:25 wut? Mar 07 22:26:33 storing them in sqlite is best inevntion since sliced bread :P Mar 07 22:26:41 suuuure Mar 07 22:26:53 well, if you have, lets say, 8kb blocks... Mar 07 22:27:03 and tile is 2 kb... Mar 07 22:27:05 since sqlite works so amazingly fast and efficient, e.g with tracker Mar 07 22:27:17 no, we don't have 8k blocks Mar 07 22:27:20 afaik Mar 07 22:27:21 DocScrutinizer05, no idea, but for programs I've used it works blazing fast Mar 07 22:27:34 neither are tiles 2k, again afaik Mar 07 22:27:37 whatever, tiles are rarely over 1KB Mar 07 22:27:45 well, depends on map used Mar 07 22:27:54 n900-dk_: have you tweaked with the espeak settings? Mar 07 22:28:01 I got shitload of them and saved 1.5 GB or so Mar 07 22:28:02 using 1k tiles is simply braindead Mar 07 22:28:07 slow it down for example Mar 07 22:28:32 DocScrutinizer05, for non-satellite maps, 8 bit maps are, most of the times, looking the same as 24 bit ones Mar 07 22:28:37 using fraction of storage Mar 07 22:29:12 see comparision of google maps (normal) and 8bits variant Mar 07 22:29:18 50*50 pixels are already 2500 *pixels* Mar 07 22:29:23 same content, many times smaller Mar 07 22:29:30 and 50*50 is insanely small Mar 07 22:29:30 sixwheeledbeast, is that an app? Mar 07 22:29:39 I talk about color depth? Mar 07 22:29:53 (ibit vs 24 bit) Mar 07 22:29:57 (or 16 bit) Mar 07 22:30:02 vdv: browser switchboard = yes,latest from devel is good IIRC Mar 07 22:30:02 sixwheeledbeast: Yes, but still not the best Mar 07 22:30:07 s/ibit/8bit/ Mar 07 22:30:25 DocScrutinizer05, theory aside, tiles stored in sqlite use shitload less space, in practice Mar 07 22:30:26 and it's only the distance that is lokal language Mar 07 22:30:39 s/lokal/local/g Mar 07 22:30:39 n900-dk_ meant: and it's only the distance that is local language Mar 07 22:30:42 with no perceived slowing down of loading time Mar 07 22:30:46 which is all that matters :P Mar 07 22:30:52 n900-dk_: k, i hate voice navigation have voice on sygic off anyway Mar 07 22:31:00 sixwheeledbeast, browser-switchboard installed microb here :) Mar 07 22:31:50 as said, I saved ~1.5GB, after putting my tiles into sqlite Mar 07 22:31:52 vdv: ? Mar 07 22:32:02 I filled my sd with 15gb of tiles to be used with trackaway. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85686 ..And it is still reall fast ;) Mar 07 22:32:23 in sqlite? Mar 07 22:32:30 sixwheeledbeast, i have a menu item MicroB now ) Mar 07 22:32:44 and it launches standard browser Mar 07 22:32:57 Estel_: tilestore from Mobac Mar 07 22:33:04 my tiles here are 7..50k size Mar 07 22:33:25 vdv: settings > browser switchboard . opera = done :) Mar 07 22:33:37 s/./> Mar 07 22:34:08 DocScrutinizer05, change tile provider :P Mar 07 22:34:11 anyway Mar 07 22:34:24 for any block size, tile that exteeds it by 1 kb Mar 07 22:34:27 why should I? Mar 07 22:34:30 sixwheeledbeast, thanks a lot ) Mar 07 22:34:31 still waste another full block Mar 07 22:34:33 btw, under the sun 24 bit = 8 bit = 2 bit ;) Mar 07 22:34:40 vdv: np Mar 07 22:34:47 so hyphotetival 50kb tile is still wasting some kb Mar 07 22:35:01 in sqlite, you waste none, per thousands of tiles Mar 07 22:35:10 xes, yea Mar 07 22:35:27 DocScrutinizer05, idk why should you, to stop wasting storage space? :P Mar 07 22:35:28 bwahahaha Mar 07 22:35:41 you just waste sqlite metainfo overhead Mar 07 22:35:44 ...as it's still single file with all tiles Mar 07 22:35:52 no, I don't :) Mar 07 22:36:07 as said, saved 1.5 GB, by converting my tiles to sqlite database Mar 07 22:36:28 which is nice deal for me Mar 07 22:36:29 anyway Mar 07 22:36:34 honestly storing large amounts of huge data in a rdbms is braindead Mar 07 22:36:38 your mileage may wary ;) Mar 07 22:36:40 as braindead as it gets Mar 07 22:36:50 >implying sqlite is a rdbms Mar 07 22:36:57 well, in practice it works, as I have 1.5 GB more for other uses Mar 07 22:37:20 LOL, my whole map is no 1.5GB Mar 07 22:37:25 ...and every new area i download, saved increase Mar 07 22:37:30 well, as said, I travel much Mar 07 22:37:34 so your mileage may wary Mar 07 22:37:43 I downloaded whole country Mar 07 22:37:54 2/3 of my N900 storage is maps Mar 07 22:37:58 sixwheeledbeast: So you don't use n900 for navigation in car? Mar 07 22:38:00 well, maybe on low zoom :P Mar 07 22:38:19 I need quite detailed zoom without net connectivity, many times Mar 07 22:38:34 n900-dk: no a van Mar 07 22:38:40 n900-dk_, even in car I don't use voicenav Mar 07 22:39:13 i don't like things talking at me and distrubing OMP Mar 07 22:39:21 You have a wife or just know your way around? ;) Mar 07 22:39:27 using that small tiles is idiotic, anyway. And probably only done to have a proper excuse to use a SQL database which is the next idiotic design decision Mar 07 22:39:27 DocScrutinizer05, I also admit that I find satellite view useful many times, on high zoom, so it adds to storage Mar 07 22:39:31 plus i have very good local knowledge Mar 07 22:39:47 n900-dk_ latter Mar 07 22:39:48 DocScrutinizer05, modrana or other nav programs doesnt decide on tile sizes Mar 07 22:40:03 providers like google or openstreetmap deefines tilesize Mar 07 22:40:22 so what do you think are the tile *I* ise from? Mar 07 22:40:29 use* Mar 07 22:40:47 and I haven't seen a single tile <5k Mar 07 22:40:50 No idea, maybe you see smallest streets while having whole country at 3x screen size? :P Mar 07 22:41:13 on my case I have hundred of thousands tiles from various map layers Mar 07 22:41:19 if not more Mar 07 22:41:25 so what? Mar 07 22:41:37 does that change size of a sibngle tile? Mar 07 22:41:38 not to mention hitting limit of number of tiles in one directory, no problem with sqlite Mar 07 22:41:49 DocScrutinizer05, it means that saved space on every tile adds up Mar 07 22:42:00 it doesnt matter if your tiles are bigger Mar 07 22:42:22 1kb above blovk size or 4x blocksize + 50 bytes still waste another blocksize Mar 07 22:42:43 multiply it by a 500 000 or 1 500 000 tiles Mar 07 22:42:55 go argue til you're blue in the face. Nobody with a sane mind stores enormous amounts of blobs in a database Mar 07 22:43:02 then, one can add fast compression, too Mar 07 22:43:17 well, every sane foss program moves into storing tiles in sqlite Mar 07 22:43:18 au contraire, they store those blobs on files and the filename in database Mar 07 22:43:24 marble is going to incorporate it too :P Mar 07 22:43:47 no surprise, marble is kde Mar 07 22:44:01 kde got kmail2 Mar 07 22:44:16 so I would rather count on their experrience and my saved 1.5 GB reinforcing it, than argue with you about ideology, when it works in practice Mar 07 22:44:21 which is using mysql for the maildir indexing Mar 07 22:44:41 yeah, works like kade Mar 07 22:44:47 KDE even Mar 07 22:45:06 obviously another one of your "scientific proofs" Mar 07 22:45:21 for me 1.5 GB on 32 GB device gained for FREE (no speed penalty while using it) is good gain worth effort Mar 07 22:45:32 especially that my effort afterr initial conversion is 0 Mar 07 22:45:39 new tiles just get saved to file Mar 07 22:45:44 again, I hardly see whole countries of that size Mar 07 22:45:54 *shrugs* Mar 07 22:45:54 on OSM Mar 07 22:46:01 as said, I don't use only osm Mar 07 22:46:10 google satrllite and their streets overlay Mar 07 22:46:19 so maybe *you* should change your map provider then Mar 07 22:46:20 (streets overlay got especially small sized tiles) Mar 07 22:47:13 DocScrutinizer05: the point is the realation blocksize/tile size. On large filesystems you may loose many GB. Mar 07 22:47:15 why so, if some developers coded sqlite that allow me to use any tiles i like without wasting space due to blocksize? :P c'mon, you're arguing just for sake of it. It works, it makes people happy, it doesn't offend you or force to use it. Mar 07 22:47:50 the worst thing is that so far there isn't a mapping software able to apply a customizable color/saturation/hue filter before loading the tiles. Some map provider has really orrible color schemes Mar 07 22:47:59 xes, DocScrutinizer05 just got mood of pointlessly arguing just for the sake of it. Happens from time to time oin this channel :P Mar 07 22:48:09 xes, suggest it to M4rtinK Mar 07 22:48:23 I think he would gladly implement it if feasible, as it's great idea Mar 07 22:48:30 no, i'll stop arguing with a guy who never ever accepted an better rationale once he had decided for "his way" Mar 07 22:48:58 DocScrutinizer05, frankly, you're only one bitching about someone else using sqlite for tiles, that ois saving gigabytes of space. :P Mar 07 22:49:23 meh keep your nonsense to yourself Mar 07 22:49:46 last time I checked no one forced you to use it, eh? Mar 07 22:50:14 last time you started arguing like this, somebody 8not me) kicked you Mar 07 22:50:27 no need to argue for this. Most applications have both choices to satisfy the different needs. Thats all Mar 07 22:51:05 cheer up guys - why do we have so much negative spirit in here? Didn't used to be like this.. Mar 07 22:51:12 DocScrutinizer05, it was the same troll who acussed me of "using council cloak on irc after reesigning"? you have funny heroes :P Mar 07 22:51:20 * sixwheeledbeast just did apt-get upgrade with cssu-devel and didn't die :) Mar 07 22:51:27 sixwheeledbeast: i do that all the time Mar 07 22:51:32 sixwheeledbeast, you mean new rmo? Mar 07 22:51:35 if you have 1gb of tiles you can fit everywhere. If you have 20 GB you start trying different ways Mar 07 22:51:36 just keep a backup handy Mar 07 22:51:46 xes: storing blobs in a SQL db for exploiting a minor implementation detail that could as well get reached by using a better FS or smaller blocksize is nothing to argue about, and no sane program will provide it as *option* Mar 07 22:52:04 lol, I'm not gonna change my filesystem just for tiles! Mar 07 22:52:05 thumb + cssu devel + new rmo on my new testing device :) Mar 07 22:52:24 lol, there's a noob who never heard of loopmounts Mar 07 22:52:31 and every sane program provide is as an option or plans to, no matter what DocScrutinizer05 thinks about it ;) Mar 07 22:52:53 DocScrutinizer05: dude, chill Mar 07 22:52:59 you're acting like... idk, Estel_ Mar 07 22:53:03 I think continuation of this discussions is pointless?... it reminds me of today bme in upstart one, although this one is MUCH more pointless Mar 07 22:53:07 sure, show me one program that has option "use sql | use plain files" Mar 07 22:53:21 mobac Mar 07 22:53:28 DocScrutinizer05, google for it, and if it isn't there yet, it is in roadmaps for features :P Mar 07 22:54:00 fine, this app qualifies for the non-sane 2% then Mar 07 22:54:02 mobac, modrana (and any rana thing), marble on it's way, + shitload of commercial things doing it under the hood Mar 07 22:54:15 modrana does IIRC Mar 07 22:54:22 of course it does. Mar 07 22:54:25 DocScrutinizer05: :) Mar 07 22:54:49 Estel_: you said OPTION Mar 07 22:55:03 well, if poettering is agressively enforcing own views on things, then i don't know what reisenberging is. Mar 07 22:55:11 seems opera mobile don't support flash... Mar 07 22:55:17 or does? Mar 07 22:55:20 vdv: correct Mar 07 22:55:25 oh right, so commercial ones that switched from files to database without asking user about opinion doesnt comply :P Mar 07 22:55:44 sixwheeledbeast, so it does support? Mar 07 22:55:48 manage a lot of maps is a pain, porting between devices in another problem. Have the possibility to choose the format is very important Mar 07 22:55:53 Estel_: you're trying to make me angry? or is this just another lame trolling practiceing lesson? Mar 07 22:56:03 vdv: does not Mar 07 22:56:19 sixwheeledbeast, do you have n900? Mar 07 22:56:22 in fact, I'm going to eat yoghurt now. With cornflakes! That will make you anrgy. Mar 07 22:56:33 angry, even Mar 07 22:56:33 vdv: x3 now Mar 07 22:56:46 :) Mar 07 22:57:06 he asked for it, didn't he? Mar 07 22:57:13 tom & jerry Mar 07 22:57:16 :) Mar 07 22:57:17 mmm saw that coming Mar 07 22:57:29 ..like a train ;) Mar 07 22:57:43 sixwheeledbeast, but still, which browser can you advice? fennec seems very slow.. Mar 07 22:58:42 vdv: I use opera and put up with no flash, purely for portrait keyboard and autorefocus thing Mar 07 22:59:09 yes, it's so nice Mar 07 22:59:32 vdv: I do wish to get fennec thumb working on testing device Mar 07 22:59:57 i've commented out lines in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list with #, but seems it wouldn't work, right? Mar 07 23:00:04 DocScrutinizer05: dont get why you are to sensitive and kick folks for small stuff - you could just stop replying :) Mar 07 23:00:19 s/to/so/ Mar 07 23:00:20 n900-dk_ meant: DocScrutinizer05: dont get why you are so sensitive and kick folks for small stuff - you could just stop replying :) Mar 07 23:00:54 I'm here :) Mar 07 23:01:15 regarding that sqlite tile storage Mar 07 23:01:33 it indeed saves a lot of space in practise Mar 07 23:02:33 I had a uses report a batch of tiles taking ~ 1.6 GB and taking only 80 MB when stored in sqlite Mar 07 23:02:45 no more talk about titles please, doc is in a bad mood ;) Mar 07 23:02:58 M4rtinK: might do, and exactly for the reasons he mentioned. Still it's idiotic to use that huge overhead of a sql db for that Mar 07 23:03:01 s/titles/tiles/g Mar 07 23:03:03 n900-dk_ meant: no more talk about tiles please, doc is in a bad mood ;) Mar 07 23:03:08 due to the quite large cluster size on the FAT32 MyDocs Mar 07 23:03:39 well, I haven't been able to come with any other workable solution Mar 07 23:04:17 some plain indexed binary file would probably do Mar 07 23:04:18 user reiserfs on a loopmount Mar 07 23:04:26 or use ext4 iirc Mar 07 23:04:34 but I was not able to find anything of the shelf Mar 07 23:04:39 Martix: that too Mar 07 23:04:51 M4rtinK: ^^^ Mar 07 23:04:58 sorry Martix Mar 07 23:05:01 M4rtinK: you? again? Mar 07 23:05:05 of course, the users are free to use that Mar 07 23:05:38 but I needed something that only uses Python (which has sqlite built-in) Mar 07 23:05:54 sqlite is a bitch Mar 07 23:06:09 and it is an option BTW, default is files (for sharing with other programs) Mar 07 23:06:18 makes maemo crawl even on 2Mb large messages db Mar 07 23:06:27 indeed it is - had a few headaches till I got it working Mar 07 23:06:55 the old sqlite in Python 2.5 hates threaded access Mar 07 23:07:14 but once I got that sorted out - it really is not a bottleneck Mar 07 23:07:38 nobody ever stores "huge" blobs *inside* the db Mar 07 23:07:54 huge == everything > a few 100 bytes Mar 07 23:08:08 except those tracker fools Mar 07 23:08:18 a db isn't made for that stuff Mar 07 23:08:26 well, even the tiles themselves are a hack Mar 07 23:08:36 M4rtinK: I agree with DocScrutinizer05, using DB for tiles is crazy Mar 07 23:08:55 vector data would be much more efficient & enable other use cases Mar 07 23:09:07 M4rtinK: even tiles are hack? ok, and you needed to went deeper? Mar 07 23:09:17 datatype blob is basically a filename pointer to a file in detached fs storage Mar 07 23:09:49 M4rtinK: why dont share vector data between apps? Mar 07 23:09:53 that's pretty much standard in every db Mar 07 23:10:38 and it makes sense since a db is meant to *work* with the content Mar 07 23:10:45 not to *store* it Mar 07 23:10:47 DocScrutinizer05: but that would still need the files stored somewhere if I'm not mistaken ? Mar 07 23:11:00 the problem is the FS Mar 07 23:11:16 how would you index or sort or add or average blobs? Mar 07 23:11:16 not an issue on EXT, etc. Mar 07 23:11:17 M4rtinK: anyway, SQL for your usecase is really huge overkill, have you tried at least noSQL dbs? Mar 07 23:11:47 mongodb is web scale! Mar 07 23:12:22 Martix: get me something that 1. uses only Python 2.5 stuff, 2. works on the N900 without user intervention, 3. is faster than the current solution Mar 07 23:12:42 loopmount ext4 Mar 07 23:12:51 BTW, the database is not used that often Mar 07 23:13:05 DocScrutinizer05: mmh, you'd need something that grows automatically though Mar 07 23:13:08 modRana has a in-memory cache for visible tiles Mar 07 23:13:31 so it just grabs 10-20 at a time and that's it Mar 07 23:13:36 indexed file, I mean same method like video containers use for frames Mar 07 23:14:22 kerio: use a sparse file then? Mar 07 23:14:24 Martix: sure - any Python 2.5 compatible modules for that ? Mar 07 23:14:42 * RST38h yawns, moos at Doc thoughtfully Mar 07 23:14:43 BTW, structure of the database is described here: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/SQLiteStorageDescriptionEN Mar 07 23:14:45 M4rtinK: you can program it yourself, just stop being lazy Mar 07 23:15:00 Martix: thanks a lot for your glorious insight ! :) Mar 07 23:15:20 M4rtinK: your welcome, I'm always happy to help Mar 07 23:15:25 kerio: virtual size 10GB, used 200k, actual size of image file 1MB Mar 07 23:15:38 M4rtinK: just try indexed file approach, thanks! Mar 07 23:15:40 mostly due to inodes Mar 07 23:16:30 * DocScrutinizer05 moos at RST38h Mar 07 23:16:37 M4rtinK: i have one question for you. Why nobody asked/made somethink to apply a filter before load the tiles? (to tweak a little the colors of some map provider) Mar 07 23:16:41 if this indeed could be used automatically with tools available on the N900, why not Mar 07 23:17:17 xes: already half-implemented Mar 07 23:17:48 the recent versions already have a built-in negative filter support Mar 07 23:18:03 (using PIL, so it's fast) Mar 07 23:18:45 M4rtinK: the result should be make the osm maps vsible under the sun light Mar 07 23:19:13 xes: check options->Map->Filters Mar 07 23:19:19 oh wait, no sparse file on VFAT Mar 07 23:19:44 M4rtinK: thanks! Mar 07 23:19:47 shouldnt be that hard to add other filters Mar 07 23:20:44 and regarding vector map rendering: https://github.com/kothic/kothic Mar 07 23:20:50 the purpose would be to use the osm cycle maps offroad ;) Mar 07 23:21:28 it's a very interesting map renderer written in Python that uses Cairo Mar 07 23:22:01 the renderings should look like this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kothic Mar 07 23:22:37 haven't got time to integrate it with modRana yet - any help with this would be welcome ! :) Mar 07 23:25:35 M4rtinK: really nice! Another little trick missing (afaik) in modrana is a quick jump to a city/place. I have added to the app trackaway a quick search and jump to a place in the map using gns data inserted into a sqlite db: http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/ Mar 07 23:26:23 xes: search->address online ? :) Mar 07 23:27:13 but yeah, offline database search could be also helpful Mar 07 23:27:21 offline search for coordinates giving a place name with the results ordered by distance Mar 07 23:28:07 oh that Mar 07 23:28:08 i have created that gns db with the scheme of modrana's poi db ;) Mar 07 23:28:17 oh :D Mar 07 23:28:57 if you have some sharable script for that, I can add it the the modRana wiki :) Mar 07 23:29:23 if you want try something similar i could send you the scripts to import gns into sqlite Mar 07 23:30:17 then the function to calculate spherical distance is just bash Mar 07 23:30:35 xes: sure :) Mar 07 23:30:46 quick and dirty :) Mar 07 23:31:07 xes: I guess the POI handling in modRana could use an improvement Mar 07 23:31:23 if you have many POIs, it could be quite tedious currently Mar 07 23:31:42 I should add at least some sorting Mar 07 23:32:04 distance/name Mar 07 23:32:11 & search Mar 07 23:33:57 and built-int import would be nice :) Mar 07 23:34:01 is there any new pdf reader for n900? Mar 07 23:34:05 fine! I'm going to search for that scripts and as soon as i find them i'll send you all Mar 07 23:34:14 or nothing better than evince? Mar 07 23:34:16 OK :) Mar 07 23:34:25 xes: thanks :) Mar 07 23:34:44 M4rtinK: thanks to you! Mar 07 23:34:47 kerio, do you have kernel-power headers installed on your dev enviromnent? Mar 07 23:34:48 whats the easiest way to do a full backup of a n900 ? Mar 07 23:34:53 im selling mine Mar 07 23:34:54 hi M4rtinK :) Mar 07 23:35:05 nice to see you, xes had some great idea for modrana Mar 07 23:35:52 sorry if re-writing something, just going to read backlog - some fool kicked me, while I was eating Mar 07 23:36:45 if "setxkbmap my_custom_layout" gives no error and custom layout works also ok, then is "gconftool-2 -s -t string /apps/osso/inputmethod/int_kb_layout my_custom_layout" safe? :) Mar 07 23:39:23 what do i need to do to do a complete backup of my n900 ? Mar 07 23:39:35 will pc suite do it ? Mar 07 23:40:20 I'm unsure Mar 07 23:40:27 I don't think so Mar 07 23:40:31 M4rtinK, lol, just saw Martix suggesting you to spend xxx hours on coding something just for the sake of it. What a valuable contribution :P Mar 07 23:40:48 Martix, though about douing it yourself and submitting patch? Mar 07 23:41:02 I'm forgetting the name of the backup tool Mar 07 23:41:06 SpeedEvil, thanks for suggestion about digitizer Mar 07 23:41:09 there is one in the repos Mar 07 23:41:13 Estel_: ? Mar 07 23:41:14 SpeedEvil, backupmenu? Mar 07 23:41:21 ah - yes - that Mar 07 23:41:31 SpeedEvil, repairing digitizer. i'm just unsure what border garbage you mean? Mar 07 23:41:38 Estel_: are you suggesting different solution? perhaps already available as Python 2.5 module? Mar 07 23:41:58 Macer, sure, keeping current solution, as it works fast and reliably Mar 07 23:41:58 Estel_: Sorry - context fail Mar 07 23:42:19 is qtsdk not free anymore? Mar 07 23:42:35 SpeedEvil, I asked about any ideas why digitizer in ideal condition may workk 100% ok then, after 10 minutes, act like one part is pressed 100% of time Mar 07 23:42:48 no visible damage, etc Mar 07 23:42:59 not even single scratch, so I just wanted to try messing with reviving it Mar 07 23:43:03 pressure damage? Mar 07 23:43:39 Estel_: or are you just trying to troll on my account? Mar 07 23:43:47 kerio, suspecting that - guy owning it was using it while snowboarding, so I first suspected moisture, but no signs of it. Also, I've kept it in silica bag overnight Mar 07 23:44:03 Silica bag doesn't really remove all water. Mar 07 23:44:17 I'd recommend washing in distilled water, plus a week at 50C Mar 07 23:44:22 Macer, just stating that suggesting a hard working developer to freplace 100% working solution with something else just to satisfy you - without submitting patch yourself - is luser way of doing it Mar 07 23:44:47 SpeedEvil, hm... anyway, I suspect it to be a damage due to pressure at one point Mar 07 23:44:59 BTW, for anyone interested, the modRana upstream repository is here: https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana Mar 07 23:45:00 had smth like that once, and "massaging" digitizerr + some time helped Mar 07 23:45:09 problems never returned Mar 07 23:45:15 Estel_: delegating is crucial part of timemanagement :-) Mar 07 23:45:30 but this one digitizer is strange, I suspect while he was snowboarding, something pressed against center of N900 screen Mar 07 23:45:45 Merge requests welcome ! (like the nice one from Wikiwide I've merged just two days ago :) ) Mar 07 23:45:55 :) Mar 07 23:45:57 Estel_: along with setting priorities Mar 07 23:46:00 Estel - that's also possible Mar 07 23:46:20 so changing sqlite database is priority for smth about year 2145 Mar 07 23:46:34 if watching porn doesn't pop up before it Mar 07 23:46:55 SpeedEvil, anyway I wanted to try checking for that border contamination you've mentioned Mar 07 23:47:04 just don't exactly get what it is Mar 07 23:47:46 otherwise I'm going bitch mode and selling it on ebay, condition "unknown", visually perfect (no single scratch) :P Mar 07 23:49:26 even huge red warning about buying at own risk and unknown condition won't stop fools from buying due to it having no scratches *evil mode* Mar 07 23:49:54 SpeedEvil, so what is border contamination? or you just mean dirt behind it and screen? in that case nope, as I disassembled it to barebones Mar 07 23:49:55 Estel - if stuff gets damp, especially if the water is not pure, nasty stuff happens. Mar 07 23:50:13 This includes electroplating inside the PCB. Mar 07 23:50:51 For more mild cases, washing off the PCB, perhaps with mild brushing, and distilled water, then very thorough drying can help Mar 07 23:51:15 sure thing, will try destiled water... Still, I bet on pressure damage, just curious why no visual symptomes Mar 07 23:51:20 you mean pcb of digitizer? Mar 07 23:51:36 (only digitizer is fubar) Mar 07 23:52:08 i can't get backup menu to install for some odd reason Mar 07 23:52:15 btw as for silica bag I mean 0.5 kg bag and digitizer was *inside* :P Mar 07 23:52:18 installation failed ? Mar 07 23:52:36 XDS2010, logs please? Mar 07 23:52:54 Estel_: not sure i can get to them atm Mar 07 23:52:58 ill try Mar 07 23:53:27 Estel_: what are we looking for ? Mar 07 23:53:34 sure you can, use apt or fapman Mar 07 23:53:45 whole log after apt-get install backupmenu Mar 07 23:53:57 pastebinned somewhere (for example, zerobin) Mar 07 23:54:01 good night ! :) Mar 07 23:54:28 Estel_: spru.ng work :P Mar 07 23:54:53 some crazy error about disk space Mar 07 23:55:04 bb M4rtinK Mar 07 23:55:44 M4rtinK: Mar 07 23:56:06 M4rtinK: just found the scripts Mar 07 23:56:53 Estel_: it says required diskspace isn't enough ? thats not possible Mar 07 23:57:17 im not connected in mass storage or pc suite mode either Mar 07 23:57:43 rootfs not full? Mar 07 23:58:05 nope Mar 08 00:01:09 ah i see the error :) Mar 08 00:01:18 checksum mismatch Estel_ Mar 08 00:01:26 hash sum rather Mar 08 00:01:39 yea. Mar 08 00:01:40 how do i fix ? Mar 08 00:01:42 ~mirrors Mar 08 00:01:43 mirror is, like, http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Mar 08 00:01:45 :) Mar 08 00:01:47 use latest Mar 08 00:01:50 last* Mar 08 00:01:50 k Mar 08 00:01:56 extras-devel.merlin etc Mar 08 00:02:01 ty Mar 08 00:02:19 cli to direct ? Mar 08 00:02:46 can i just plugin a direct command to download or do i still need to add them ? Mar 08 00:07:30 Estel_: huh? Mar 08 00:09:36 oh. you mean me asking why there isn't any expansion into other hardware? Mar 08 00:10:11 Martix: don't get trolled, there's no "xxx hours of coding" time needed to implement a sql db table with filename as primary key and start offset in bytes as second field in the record, then use seek() and write()/read() to get the tile you want. after all it's a grow-only delete-never set of data and sql already gets used. I gather the whole thing takes ~10 lines of code and maybe 30 min max Mar 08 00:10:14 i suppose considering i am not a developer... but it is still a suggestion. or are we to stop giving those too? Mar 08 00:11:58 Macer: I guess it's been -ETAB Mar 08 00:12:03 oh Mar 08 00:12:08 she was talking to someone else heh Mar 08 00:12:31 -ETAB ? Mar 08 00:12:52 nick-expansion Mar 08 00:12:56 oh Mar 08 00:12:57 yah Mar 08 00:13:54 when is this new ubuntu phone coming out? Mar 08 00:14:03 Estel_: point people towards new rmo when they have hash sums problem Mar 08 00:14:19 jacekowski: ack Mar 08 00:14:32 http://global.christianpost.com/news/ubuntu-phone-release-date-set-for-april-2014-87649/ Mar 08 00:14:37 april 2014 lol Mar 08 00:14:53 jacekowski: though, is it really working when you use IP instead URL in catalogs? Mar 08 00:15:41 jacekowski, sure, just habit due to last month or so :P Mar 08 00:15:49 ip works for catalogs Mar 08 00:15:59 what was that ip? Mar 08 00:16:08 jacekowski: I guess it will work just fine with /etc/hosts hack, but with IP instead URL I'm not so sure Mar 08 00:16:24 at least in fapman it does Mar 08 00:16:30 * Estel_ checks ip from own catalogs Mar 08 00:16:59 I feel temped to kick again Mar 08 00:17:09 Macer, ubuntu phone is going to be a shit - no Ui compatibility with anything from desktop, even 2x2x pixel wide Mar 08 00:17:15 ip works for catalogs at least in fapman it does Mar 08 00:17:23 deesktop mode when conencted to tv is only fake Mar 08 00:18:11 shows clearly why fapman is shit and nobody understands what HAM is actually doing Mar 08 00:18:13 DocScrutinizer05, so kick and stop boring me? if contributing to testing new repos is reason to kick, do it and, later, go and fap man. Mar 08 00:18:35 so what? I just said that it works in fapman, your constant kicking pestering is pathetic. Mar 08 00:18:42 Estel_: the same was said for android using a non X based ui Mar 08 00:18:47 go and contribute yourself by mtesting it in ham. Mar 08 00:18:47 that seemed to work out well :) Mar 08 00:19:00 android work out well? wrong target group, i think Mar 08 00:19:09 go and fuck yourself Mar 08 00:19:46 I'm off for today, enough of DocScrutinizer05 bullshit today - remember to take your pills tomorrow guy, as today you're unbearable. Mar 08 00:19:51 Estel_: yeah i mean worked as far as continuing on without dying Mar 08 00:20:21 do you think maemo would have died had nokia sold as many N900s as HTC sold G1s? Mar 08 00:20:52 * xes is looking for the train.....is it arriving? Mar 08 00:20:53 then again though... i'm sure you can blame poor marketing on the part of nokia for that whereas googel was all hyped up at the time Mar 08 00:20:55 Probably Mar 08 00:21:03 Maemo dying didn't have much to do with Maemo Mar 08 00:21:15 But more to do with Symbian's performance and Microsoft offering boatloads of cash. Mar 08 00:22:11 either way i am sure the advent of giant companies jumping onboard helped Mar 08 00:22:37 Hi General, Macer Mar 08 00:22:51 jacekowski: just in case more than just this one fool didn't understand my concerns: HAM is testing repository against signing key. I suspect thet URL might be a part of that test Mar 08 00:22:57 RST38h: hey :) Mar 08 00:23:21 that* Mar 08 00:23:24 either way... given the fact that it seems possible it would be awesome for maemo and ubuntu to get together in order to produce a great finished product Mar 08 00:23:31 something worthwhile to the cattle Mar 08 00:23:35 Forget Maemo for now, look at this little gem: Mar 08 00:23:37 "If you've done what you want for Ubuntu, then move on. That's normal  there's no need to poison the well behind you just because you want to try something else." -- Mark Shuttleworth to Ubuntu contributors Mar 08 00:23:54 lol Mar 08 00:24:11 seems like good advice Mar 08 00:24:11 Mark Shuttleworth lays an egg. News at 11. Mar 08 00:24:44 Macer: Yeah, remember what happened to Gnome after their head cheese made similar advice to Gnome users? Mar 08 00:25:13 DocScrutinizer05: I agree, it's easyjob Mar 08 00:25:42 easy like hello-world Mar 08 00:30:42 anyone here in Spain? and/or, has ever taken the AVE trains / Renfe trains? Mar 08 00:30:53 DocScrutinizer05: well, we are signing with official keys and with hosts hack there is no way to tell those two apart (from ham perspective) Mar 08 00:30:59 renfe, yes, but decades ago Mar 08 00:31:05 RST38h: not really. i didn't like gnome that much :) Mar 08 00:31:05 didn't keep up Mar 08 00:31:05 did he have an exodus of people to kde/qt? heh Mar 08 00:31:06 either way... the ubuntu phones actually look kind of neat Mar 08 00:31:06 but i'll believe it when i see it ;) Mar 08 00:31:06 heh Mar 08 00:31:06 Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/ubuntu-phone-release-date-set-for-april-2014-87649/#12PFTfqb13woX1Db.99 Mar 08 00:31:06 grr Mar 08 00:31:06 i seriously need to find out how they're doing that Mar 08 00:31:06 when you copy txt it pastes the address instead of the txt Mar 08 00:31:37 jacekowski: yes, that's what I said: /etc/hosts hack will most probably work Mar 08 00:31:50 DocScrutinizer05: heh, trying to buy tickets, not sure wtf is with the P/P+ tickets, and deciding between the Estrella overnight or the AVE high speed, to get from Barcelona to Madrid Mar 08 00:32:00 Macer: I am getting "Nigeria Archbishop Renounces Execution Order and Calls for more Aggressive Response Mar 08 00:32:00 Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/nigeria-archbishop-renounces-execution-order-and-calls-for-more-aggressive-response-20/#MeDsMVditLpDMhvw.99 Mar 08 00:32:19 yeah... wtf? :) Mar 08 00:32:23 rm_you: no idea, sorry Mar 08 00:32:29 Macer: Has Shuttleworth moved to Nigeria and become an archbishop? Mar 08 00:32:35 that woudl be awesome! Mar 08 00:32:40 np, will just keep asking the channel Mar 08 00:32:43 talk about a strange twist haha Mar 08 00:32:48 http://global.christianpost.com/news/ubuntu-phone-release-date-set-for-april-2014-87649/ Mar 08 00:32:53 that was the article about the ubuntu phones Mar 08 00:32:54 this channel is my best bet for advice about European stuff >_> Mar 08 00:32:57 rm_you: alas javispedro isn't around anymore Mar 08 00:32:57 on christianpost.com? :) Mar 08 00:33:05 qgil would know too :P Mar 08 00:33:11 doesn't he have a place in Barcelona? Mar 08 00:33:20 might be Mar 08 00:33:25 http://www.news24.com/Technology/News/Ubuntu-phone-coming-with-new-ecosystem-20130306 Mar 08 00:33:29 that looks a bit qtish Mar 08 00:33:50 Have they rewritten Qt already? Mar 08 00:34:36 lol Mar 08 00:34:38 like java? Mar 08 00:34:39 :) Mar 08 00:34:54 i'm just saying. going by that pic... it looks like symbian belle heh Mar 08 00:35:11 * Macer sheds a tear for belle Mar 08 00:35:20 the little symbian that should have Mar 08 00:37:54 Collins: Ubuntu for smartphones is currently an early build which we will continue to develop over the coming months. At the moment, we recommend that only experienced developers flash their spare phones (Nexus 4 and Google Nexus models) with Ubuntu. Mar 08 00:38:20 i wonder if they got motorola to make them an ubuntu phone heh Mar 08 00:50:46 is there a way i can just ignore the hash sum issue ? Mar 08 00:51:40 just need to get this damn backupmenu deb installed Mar 08 00:51:52 ~mirrors Mar 08 00:51:53 from memory, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Mar 08 00:52:32 i added the mirrors and still have hash sum issues Mar 08 00:56:55 Estel_: can u help ? Mar 08 01:04:37 XDS2010: some wise man said "when HAM or apt throws error about hashsum, the file already got downloaded to /var/apt/cache [or sth like that]. Just go find it and install with dpkg -i " Mar 08 01:05:10 :-/ tried that it didn't work Mar 08 01:05:26 XDS2010: btw you're not supposed to add "the mirrors" but only *one* of them Mar 08 01:05:26 maybe the file got misplaced somehow Mar 08 01:05:52 DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1315931&postcount=4 Mar 08 01:05:56 this is what i did Mar 08 01:05:57 particularly extras-devel.merlin1991.at Mar 08 01:06:21 yea i added that Mar 08 01:06:31 and nothing else? Mar 08 01:06:35 thats all i added yea Mar 08 01:06:39 as -user Mar 08 01:06:49 then disable extras-devel and fine you are Mar 08 01:07:13 if you done it in HAM's "add catalogs" Mar 08 01:07:31 should work afaik Mar 08 01:07:41 AFAYK!? Mar 08 01:07:57 :shrug: Mar 08 01:08:04 blind leading blind in hear Mar 08 01:08:08 do you need a written warranty? Mar 08 01:08:09 here* Mar 08 01:08:35 DocScrutinizer05: if this doesn't get fixed im going to lose 200$ so yea kinda would like one of those Mar 08 01:08:48 or better ask estel who's never doubting any of his own statements ;-P Mar 08 01:09:14 DocScrutinizer05: :-/ sorry its the end of the day im in a cranky mood Mar 08 01:09:31 which doesn't mean his advice is any better, but maybe you feel better when he tells you how to solve your issues Mar 08 01:10:07 i wish i had a gun and a bullseye target right now Mar 08 01:10:45 ok let me try removing devel Mar 08 01:11:01 you shall not remove it Mar 08 01:11:16 you shall listen to what people advice Mar 08 01:11:29 I said "disable" Mar 08 01:11:44 ok thank you for the clarification Mar 08 01:11:59 advise* Mar 08 01:12:02 :P Mar 08 01:12:36 DocScrutinizer05: do you think i should sell it ? Mar 08 01:12:43 actually I said "disable in HAM catalogs" - though that's been not that verbatim Mar 08 01:12:44 :-/ i have cold feet Mar 08 01:13:17 then keep it, it makes for a nice warming pad when you run weird stuff on it Mar 08 01:15:55 DocScrutinizer05: know anything about DBBahn trains? Mar 08 01:16:14 honstly, I don't get it what's your problem. N900 is unbrickable (virtually). It also has a builtin backup app that's pretty fine for doing backup of all your contacts and messages and accounts and appointments and stuff Mar 08 01:16:33 rm_you: a bit more, sounds familiar Mar 08 01:17:21 rm_you: shoot Mar 08 01:17:23 DocScrutinizer05: im trying to get a 4s on a9406. im going after the blue unicorn. I wanna find the bitch and catch her. Mar 08 01:18:09 rm_you, the official java applet or what its called more or less runs in the emulator, and there are other timetable apps too Mar 08 01:18:18 XDS2010: are you sure your current state is the right one to mess with catalogs and stuff? Mar 08 01:18:25 nox-: oh, neat Mar 08 01:18:46 DocScrutinizer05: no :) Mar 08 01:18:54 rm_you: fahrplan uses DB web interface Mar 08 01:19:07 DocScrutinizer05: trying to figure out what "open saloon" "open saloon with table" and such is, and if it matters if we're buying 2nd class tickets Mar 08 01:19:07 yeah fahrplan was the one iirc Mar 08 01:19:52 rm_you: 1st class is twice as expensive and usually not worth it except when you have too much money to spend Mar 08 01:19:54 there are a few seats that have a table, gives you more legroom iirc Mar 08 01:20:15 (this in 2nd class) Mar 08 01:20:34 usually they're sold out quickly tho Mar 08 01:20:41 the seats with table Mar 08 01:20:42 open saloon probably is a ICE waggon with no partitions Mar 08 01:20:46 yeah Mar 08 01:20:57 thats also what i would think Mar 08 01:21:10 there are seats like in airplane, and some 4 -seat combos with a table in between Mar 08 01:21:14 DocScrutinizer05: it seems Backupmenu is in the testing devel repo. Is there a mirror for that ? Mar 08 01:21:44 XDS2010: there's *no* app in testig that's not also in devel Mar 08 01:21:48 i think i found one Mar 08 01:22:17 since there is no other way for an app to go to testing other than via devel repo Mar 08 01:22:38 that's why I told you nobody needs testing repo Mar 08 01:22:38 DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to have the app manager not check for updates every time i open it? Mar 08 01:22:46 no Mar 08 01:23:09 well that sucks Mar 08 01:23:29 what a waist of time Mar 08 01:23:33 yeah, but it's not meant to get opened and closed 7 times a day anyway Mar 08 01:23:57 DocScrutinizer05: what if you are a developer working on the appmanager itself Mar 08 01:24:05 that would SUCK Mar 08 01:25:13 open it, select catalogs from menu, click "maemo extras" catalog, check "disable". Click 2add catalog", enter the details for merlin catalog, click OK, klick OK, ... wait ... Mar 08 01:25:26 .... wait Mar 08 01:25:30 ........ wait some more Mar 08 01:25:36 7 minutes Mar 08 01:25:39 see a trend ? Mar 08 01:25:54 no, I don't see any trend Mar 08 01:26:10 7 minutes each time you open it!? Mar 08 01:26:15 I just see you're complaining about sth I can't change Mar 08 01:26:25 yea :-/ Mar 08 01:26:28 cranky Mar 08 01:26:34 so I get tired of listening Mar 08 01:26:47 im in rare form tonight Mar 08 01:27:42 theheck, when I tell you it takes 7 minutes, your answer should be "FINE! time to prepare me a coffee! sth I planned to do since an hour or so" Mar 08 01:31:51 DocScrutinizer05: its the point of wasting energy for a process that just does not need to be run a billion times on a billion devices :-/ not saying you're wrong here just a major PITA for some Mar 08 01:32:10 then again i could be wrong Mar 08 01:33:16 ping me tomorry. Sorry i'm busy now Mar 08 01:34:15 ok Mar 08 01:36:25 still not working grrrr Mar 08 01:41:58 is there some other easier solution to do a baremetal backup ? Mar 08 01:44:17 i have access to a linux box if that makes any difference Mar 08 01:50:17 XDS, you may tar your rootfs and optfs manually, ommiting unnecessary directories Mar 08 01:50:24 but backupmenu installation MUST work Mar 08 01:51:36 Hello Mar 08 01:52:10 I've been running into a problem with my n900... it claims I have broken packages, when I run apt-get, it tells me keys are expired. Is there a known fix? Mar 08 01:53:06 ManoftheSea_: welcome to my hell Mar 08 01:53:25 your hell? Who died and put you in charge? :) Mar 08 01:53:42 ManoftheSea_: Poseidon himself Mar 08 01:53:55 that's not hell, that's the sea Mar 08 01:54:10 Well then welcome to your hell Mar 08 01:54:44 hooray. Time to change the window dressing! Mar 08 01:54:52 So... it's a known issue with no current fix? Mar 08 01:54:59 awesome. Mar 08 01:55:13 WIP Mar 08 01:55:25 yep. Mar 08 01:58:28 ManoftheSea_: no way Mar 08 01:58:41 there's several known fixes Mar 08 01:59:09 ~mirrors Mar 08 01:59:09 hmm... mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Mar 08 01:59:31 now I've got "BADSIG 4v1" Mar 08 02:00:52 ManoftheSea_: btw your report doesn't sound exactly like "problems" Mar 08 02:01:32 hmm? problem, singular? or is it not a problem at all? Mar 08 02:02:06 there's no pending update, particularly no security update, not even a minor pkg update pending. The "broken packages" message doesn't seem to have any negative consequences in itself Mar 08 02:02:13 but, expired keys are just warning Mar 08 02:02:37 well, I can't install things. That's a problem. Mar 08 02:02:57 to put it straight: is anything except HAM not working for you? Mar 08 02:03:10 aah, ok. You want to install something Mar 08 02:03:13 official repos are... wait, why I'm writing this, Council member is here, so he could explain POLITELY to a new user why things are looking like that Mar 08 02:03:26 well, that's a tiny bit complicated though not impossible right now Mar 08 02:03:28 will be a difference from arguing over nonsense and kicking people from channel ;) Mar 08 02:03:34 will be fixed in a week the latest Mar 08 02:04:37 Yes. Apt-get wouldn't install, faster-application-manager wouldn't install. Mar 08 02:04:42 Estel_: yeah, why you ewaste your time writing such provocant bullshit? begging for another kick? Mar 08 02:04:48 eh, as it doesn't seems like you're going to get meaningful info - for now, you can a) use fapman b) "hack" your /etc/hosts and point repos to new IP, as dns is not updated, and, despite what DocScrutinizer05 said, no one know if it will be in week time... Mar 08 02:04:59 c) use mirrors as per: Mar 08 02:05:03 ~mirrors Mar 08 02:05:03 hmm... mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Mar 08 02:05:25 [2013-03-08 02:59:08] ~mirrors Mar 08 02:05:27 [2013-03-08 02:59:10] hmm... mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error Mar 08 02:05:32 more provocant BS Mar 08 02:05:33 in latest case, remember to disable normal repos though (only those that get mirrored, not nokia apps, for example) Mar 08 02:05:34 esaym153: are you saying I'm the "new user"? Mar 08 02:05:40 er, Estel_ Mar 08 02:05:45 damn tab-complete Mar 08 02:05:48 ManoftheSea_, new to the subject Mar 08 02:05:55 of broken repos Mar 08 02:06:04 (it's like that since month or so) Mar 08 02:06:34 not necessary to N900 :) I also haven't seen youa round irc, thus "new" part Mar 08 02:06:52 more BS Mar 08 02:07:13 ok. I've been here before, but not frequently. Also, yeah, I probably haven't tried to get new packages for that long. Just check updates every once in a while, and haven't seen anything show up. Mar 08 02:07:26 * Estel_ nods Mar 08 02:07:28 I recently wanted to grab syncevolution, and then started with problems. Mar 08 02:07:36 well, problem singular. Mar 08 02:07:57 well, no new packages for simillar time, as autobuilder was (and is, although THIS thing may get fixed in this week) down Mar 08 02:08:16 ManoftheSea_: go for extras-devel.merlin1991.at, or check our great new repo at IPHH Mar 08 02:08:25 which got fixed hashsums yesterday Mar 08 02:08:28 so new packages were distributed via .deb's or .tar's on TMO Mar 08 02:08:44 DocScrutinizer05, he need IP for new great Mar 08 02:09:01 which you haven't provided him ;) Mar 08 02:09:05 Thanks doc Mar 08 02:09:08 ORLY?! Mar 08 02:09:12 I'm reading the thread. Mar 08 02:09:17 also, are you sure that domain will get redirected in a week time? :) Mar 08 02:09:33 Estel_: I use an n900, I'm willing to be patient and learn. You're a little angry. Say woosah, take some time for yourself. Mar 08 02:09:39 I wouldn't tell people with such certainity, that they could start using old repo adress in week. Mar 08 02:09:57 ManoftheSea_, I'm angry at you? 0_o? Mar 08 02:10:07 yeah, since you got no idea what we're actually doing Mar 08 02:10:24 and what we *can* do, or plan to do Mar 08 02:10:49 you prefer to spill shit on others Mar 08 02:11:28 I'm just a little tongue-in-check about DocScrutinizer05, which was quite unbearable for last few hours, but I don't necessary see how it radiates on you ManoftheSea_ ;) Mar 08 02:11:28 anyone have experience with Vueling air? Mar 08 02:11:40 with doing what to air? Mar 08 02:11:48 lol Mar 08 02:11:54 it's a Spanish airline Mar 08 02:12:09 doc, IPHH? Mar 08 02:12:18 :) 0 experience Mar 08 02:12:18 ManoftheSea_: mompls Mar 08 02:12:39 IPHH is company that provided Maemo with free hosting Mar 08 02:13:25 ...with DocScrutinizer05 encourage you to use as jacekowski (autobuilder maintainer) asked, yet, still failed to provide you with IP address :P Mar 08 02:13:37 ManoftheSea_: http://213.128.137.28/showthread.php?p=1325297 Mar 08 02:13:42 is there a reason I'd want to go back to repo.maemo.org, or can I set the mirrors and forget about the issue? Mar 08 02:14:05 mirrors won't get updated very soon, while new packages may start to appear in week time or so Mar 08 02:14:12 some minor appeared already Mar 08 02:14:16 minor ones* Mar 08 02:14:30 mirrors probably will keep being frozen for some time Mar 08 02:14:37 dear estel, sir, this is since *I* know a IP alone won't suffice. Unlike *you* Mar 08 02:15:01 that's why i'm looking for *decent* info for ManoftheSea_ whom I know since long from here in irc Mar 08 02:15:12 whatever you mean by that sentence, I dully accept it and like your polite tone :) Mar 08 02:15:49 well, if you don't know what that sentence means, you're more dull than I thought Mar 08 02:15:50 (dully) lol Mar 08 02:16:11 ManoftheSea_, what do you expect at this hour ;) Mar 08 02:16:46 anyway, goodbye, for good tonight :) have fun and don't went berseker, some of you! ;) Mar 08 02:17:43 ManoftheSea_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1327342#post1327342 Mar 08 02:18:52 ManoftheSea_: you need further explanaitons for >> patch your /etc/hosts.<< ? Mar 08 02:19:07 no, that's sensible to me. Mar 08 02:19:22 213.128.137.22, as it says in that thread. Mar 08 02:20:08 hmm... it looked almost like T-mo was blocking me from using skeiron... got a gateway timeout on WCDMA, but worked on wifi... Mar 08 02:20:12 yep, basically just do `echo 213.128.137.22 repository.maemo.org >>/etc/hosts` on your N900, as root Mar 08 02:20:34 * ManoftheSea_ says no extra info needed. Doc, being such a great guy, gives extra info anyway. Mar 08 02:21:39 the new repo is supposed to have no hashsum errors Mar 08 02:22:01 if it doesn't work, fallback to merlin mirror as of above Mar 08 02:22:36 if it works for you, you're welcome to stay on that repo, it will become 'official' in a week or two anyway Mar 08 02:23:09 and it actually might have some new packages that aren't available anywhere else Mar 08 02:23:22 since we got autobuilder to work it seems Mar 08 02:24:00 I'm checking for updates now. Mar 08 02:24:53 Also, I think you'd helped me with the "broken usb" problem too. Ultimate solution was to lift and shift the OS to a new, cosmetically damaged n900. Mar 08 02:25:12 I don't mind that it's got a scratch, as long as I still have my linux pocket computer. Mar 08 02:25:27 :-) Mar 08 02:34:02 Thanks Doc. It looks like the hosts edit has resolved the "bad key" or "expired key" messages. Mar 08 02:34:51 I had a chance to mess with a nexus 4 recently... I came back to n900. Even for $0. Mar 08 02:37:08 ManoftheSea_, Android is truly horrid. Mar 08 02:37:48 Per-process mounts. Mar 08 02:37:58 without a location for shared mounts. Mar 08 02:38:06 The walled garden isn't even very nice... Mar 08 02:41:00 can't find libpcre3... should I have both CSSU and CSSU_testing on? Mar 08 02:42:39 ManoftheSea_: thanks for report about rmo_*new*. Glad to hear it works for you Mar 08 02:43:47 ~rmo-new is do `echo 213.128.137.22 repository.maemo.org >>/etc/hosts` on your N900, as root Mar 08 02:43:47 DocScrutinizer05: okay Mar 08 02:43:58 ~literal mirrors Mar 08 02:43:58 "#maemo mirrors" is "see mirror" Mar 08 02:44:01 ~literal mirror Mar 08 02:44:01 "#maemo mirror" is "http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error" Mar 08 02:44:27 ~#maemo mirror is also see ~rmo-new Mar 08 02:44:28 DocScrutinizer05: okay Mar 08 02:44:33 ~mirror Mar 08 02:44:33 i guess mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new Mar 08 02:45:26 ~rmo-new is also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1327342#post1327342 Mar 08 02:45:27 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Mar 08 02:45:57 moinmoin GeneralAntilles Mar 08 02:49:13 so... I can't find libpcre3 because it's not mirrored? Or I don't have the right mirror? Mar 08 02:50:57 I never heard of libpcre3 Mar 08 02:51:39 but the mirrors are just that: mirrors. They shouldn't lack anything that been there on source repo 8 weeks ago# Mar 08 02:52:32 well, merlin's repo is actually more than just a mirror, he rebuilt the .desc files Mar 08 02:52:50 hmm libpcre3 is from official nokia repos Mar 08 02:52:52 stll no reason why any pkg could miss Mar 08 02:52:58 ooooh Mar 08 02:53:06 its not from rmo so why can't you find it ManoftheSea_? Mar 08 02:53:29 key expired problem? Mar 08 02:53:51 i don't think so; it was installed for me but apt-get install -d --reinstall and it downloaded fine Mar 08 02:54:03 hmm Mar 08 02:54:04 nfc Mar 08 02:54:05 apt-cache search also revealed it Mar 08 02:54:15 maybe some typo by ManoftheSea_ Mar 08 02:54:41 ManoftheSea_: yeah, try apt-cache search Mar 08 02:54:49 with substring Mar 08 02:55:20 don't forget apt-get update! ;-) Mar 08 02:55:22 So the official repo should still be engaged? Mar 08 02:55:36 the nokia ones yes Mar 08 02:56:04 * DocScrutinizer05 thought they can't get disabled anyway Mar 08 02:58:15 iirc you can disable them in HAM but i haven't used HAM since mid-Jan so not sure **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 08 02:59:58 2013