**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 12 02:59:58 2013 Mar 12 07:52:24 morning, DocScrutinizer05 (12h overdue, I know) Mar 12 07:52:54 np Mar 12 07:53:43 why nobody bitching about maemo.org? Mar 12 07:54:46 I start to wonder if there's actually somebody out there we do all this hassle for Mar 12 08:06:45 or maybe because there is a notice on tmo ;) Mar 12 08:07:27 My fear is that there will be nobody after we exit the building Mar 12 08:07:35 to take on the work Mar 12 08:08:03 (too early in the morning for proper english) Mar 12 08:08:20 got it Mar 12 08:08:24 same here Mar 12 08:08:56 what do we do about elections? Mar 12 08:09:33 Rob is replying like nothing is going on Mar 12 08:10:05 DocScrutinizer05: I appreciate the hassle Mar 12 08:11:01 good, so we actually got one user we know we do all this for :-) Mar 12 08:11:08 :) Mar 12 08:11:10 :) Mar 12 08:11:18 thedead1440: fair enough Mar 12 08:11:52 alas it's a hickup on *old*, and so far Nemein isn't rebooting the dead www VM Mar 12 08:12:43 DocScrutinizer05, since *new* is okay why did we ask for DNS last minute and not asap? Mar 12 08:12:48 qwazix: contact MT, go ahead according to everybody's common sense Mar 12 08:12:57 (honest question) Mar 12 08:13:00 (BoD) Mar 12 08:13:14 :nod: Mar 12 08:13:17 qwazix: we need to sync Mar 12 08:13:28 okay Mar 12 08:13:33 and we need to sync sync with DNS switch Mar 12 08:14:33 :nod: Mar 12 08:14:35 and actually while *new* is fine, it's not as stable and functional as we'd like it to be - YET? Mar 12 08:15:21 In techstuff@maemo we trust Mar 12 08:15:27 staff even Mar 12 08:15:52 while that's not a direct good reason to stay with *old*, it's still rather convenient when we can mess around with *new* like we were the only sysops/users in the world Mar 12 08:15:56 In board@maemo we trust even more.... (for opposite reasons).... :p Mar 12 08:16:02 lol Mar 12 08:16:27 bb in ~20 Mar 12 08:17:17 except for sixwheeled nobody noticed we got a systemwide db issue yesterday on *new* Mar 12 08:34:21 damn, maemo.org isn't working ;) Mar 12 08:34:54 n900-dk_: aaaah! thanks! Mar 12 08:34:56 :-) Mar 12 08:35:06 * n900-dk_ got some bitching to do to make hard working sysops happy Mar 12 08:37:18 you know what's *really* funny? guess what's the servie with highest number of hits, most concurrent users and generally most fools trolling it. And guess what's the *only* servie that obviously never goes down on this, just occasionally gets a tiny bit slow... Mar 12 08:38:04 while silly stuff like www that hardly anybody notices when it's gone, sure THAT is sufering hickups and downtimes Mar 12 08:39:11 might be related to tmo's nature that makes it incredibly difficult to mirror it Mar 12 08:40:12 DocScrutinizer05: tmo is the gateway to everything ;) Mar 12 08:41:25 even though its slower response time than #maemo, tmo is where all the bitching will happen for exactly that reason but once tmo has a notice most people would feel their avenue to bitch has been cut off Mar 12 08:41:54 haha, true Mar 12 08:42:37 anyway I really wonder wtf is going on on www.m.o Mar 12 08:42:56 even on *new* we already see constant load Mar 12 08:43:08 hmm that's weird Mar 12 08:43:39 as if some fools had nothing better to do than to hammer it with wget before it even goes officially productive Mar 12 08:43:48 hehe Mar 12 08:44:17 is the load from wedrop.it? Mar 12 08:48:00 \o/ mashiara back Mar 12 08:48:18 so www back in 5 min (I hope) Mar 12 08:48:40 :D Mar 12 08:51:30 got an appointment, so afk for a few hours Mar 12 09:02:42 www back online Mar 12 09:22:44 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Mar 12 09:55:19 YAY, SDK runs... now let's see how hard it is to actually build something Mar 12 09:56:47 I didn't see much info about how to actually USE it yet, but it SEEMS like "scratchbox apt-get update" is the first thing to do, then get dependencies and eventually scratchbox dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot? Mar 12 10:08:08 haha, THAT is evil... I want to build something depending on libfuse, but that's not available for DIABLO_X86 Mar 12 10:10:41 why DIABLO_ btw and not FREMANTLE_? Mar 12 10:12:45 maybe because you use obsolete maemo4 SDK? Mar 12 10:13:06 it may be indeed maemo4, but it's the only one for which there is a VM image Mar 12 10:13:25 but it has "Maemo 5 links.html" on the desktop Mar 12 10:13:40 Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z is the download name Mar 12 10:18:12 UGH, NOW I see why encfs is not packaged yet Mar 12 10:18:15 it relies on Boost stuff... Mar 12 10:19:12 also, a librlog, which doesn't sound like a problem though Mar 12 10:20:24 haha, this lib requires texlive :P Mar 12 10:33:55 extras-devel "etiquette" question Mar 12 10:34:02 when I took a Debian package, entirely unmodified, just recompiled Mar 12 10:34:25 do I then set myself as maintainer in debian/control or not? Mar 12 10:50:29 encfs on /tmp/c type fuse.encfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,default_permissions,user=user) Mar 12 10:50:37 ALMOST works... only issue: cannot UNmount it... Mar 12 10:52:06 divVerent: kill the process handling the fs Mar 12 10:52:13 I know Mar 12 10:52:17 want it to be clean though Mar 12 10:52:47 i.e. if there is no real reason why fusermount -u can't work, I want it to work Mar 12 10:57:04 it DOES work when /etc/mtab is changed to be a symlink to /proc/self/mounts Mar 12 11:37:49 jacekowski: ok, tracked it down a bit more... the bug is in the fuse packages for Maemo, not in encfs, and I don't have a workaround other than getting rid of /etc/mtab and replacing it by a symlink Mar 12 11:38:05 newer versions of FUSE BTW use /proc/self/mounts as path instead of /etc/mtab, thus no longer have the issue Mar 12 11:38:24 but WHY reading /etc/mtab fails, which HAS the entry, is beyond me... strace doesn't even show an attempt to read from there Mar 12 11:38:29 the file is just lstat'd and that's it Mar 12 11:39:07 FUSE uses setmntent("/etc/mtab", "r") then getmntent()... which SHOULD normally cause reads I see in strace, but it does not Mar 12 11:39:30 (so the libc could be at fault too) Mar 12 11:42:29 Estel_: just reading in man encfs... --ondemand --idle --extpass sounds interesting for Maemo use Mar 12 11:42:41 i.e. auto unmount when idle, auto ask passphrase on next use attempt Mar 12 11:42:54 know a usable extpass program on Maemo? Mar 12 12:58:27 ~lart XEN-grid *old* *.m.o infra Mar 12 12:58:28 * infobot installs a bad bootloader on XEN-grid *old* *.m.o infra and turns XEN-grid *old* *.m.o infra into a brick Mar 12 12:58:49 infobot: you already *did* that, fool! Mar 12 13:01:27 how "funny" is THAT? *We* announce we need to set old infra into r/o mode or even take it down temporarily, to sync to *new*. 6h before we want to start with it, *old* goes down fubar :-( Mar 12 13:02:57 haha taking your anger out on infobot? :p Mar 12 13:03:04 No reaction from Nemein? Mar 12 13:05:06 thedead1440: they rebooted www 4h ago. Dead again. db dead now too Mar 12 13:05:27 wiki too is strange; it is bloody slow on all pages except that migration page Mar 12 13:06:01 migration page been bloody slow for me too Mar 12 13:06:23 and now migration page slow here too Mar 12 13:06:39 i just logged into it like 2mins ago it was fast now the opposite Mar 12 13:16:00 now everything works just fine for me Mar 12 13:16:05 W*T*F Mar 12 13:16:29 db: top - 13:15:01 up 46 days, 19:12, 1 user, load average: 86.89, 72.87, 59.83 Mar 12 13:22:24 that's pretty extreme Mar 12 13:22:27 any clue why? Mar 12 14:05:05 lemme copy what I just wrote to nemein Mar 12 14:05:23 I suspect somebody mirroring www.maemo.org which for some pages creates massive db queries like "SELECT midgard_activity.guid, midgard_activity.sitegroup, midgard_activity.metadata_creator..." - this in turn hogs db and thus slow db slows down www and www starts more and more concurrent processes until OOM wrecks up everything incl sshd on www Mar 12 14:06:24 ShadowJK: we had loads of >200 on db Mar 12 14:24:20 Maemo.org seems to follow the Outage Driven Infrastructure ;) Mar 12 14:24:32 A bit like my company. Mar 12 14:25:49 haha Mar 12 14:26:12 netflix does too, but they also make outages for themselves Mar 12 14:26:43 they have a Chaos Monkey that randomly fucks up single servers Mar 12 14:27:02 and a Chaos Gorilla to randomly simulate the takedown of whole datacenters Mar 12 14:27:25 lol Mar 12 14:27:50 apparently, they are prepared for such contingencies Mar 12 14:29:10 you mean they are prepared for their Chaos Monkey and Chaos Gorilla? Mar 12 14:29:38 or any real outages that happen Mar 12 14:31:15 hopefully :) Mar 12 14:37:51 netflix runs on aws doesn't it.. Mar 12 14:38:27 it'd be better if server was throwing 503s instead of driving itself to unsustainable loadavg :/ Mar 12 15:03:56 is there a way to enter scripts to be started in the X session? Mar 12 15:04:04 like, GUI applications to start immediately Mar 12 15:04:18 or is upstart and then messing with $DISPLAY, user ID, etc. the only way? Mar 12 15:19:48 qwazix: that is the best reply anyone could give :) Mar 12 15:46:45 divVerent: .desktop files, maybe Mar 12 15:56:50 "I wonder why is there almost no communication between http://Maemo.org and XDA-Developers?" Mar 12 15:57:03 So someone on my contacts list tweeted. Mar 12 16:17:10 Estel_: now trying with .mozilla, .ssh and .modest in EncFS (took the whole directories though)... let's see if there will be any problems Mar 12 16:19:27 ok, first attempt, with the directories mounted immediately when the prompt appeared: works Mar 12 16:19:52 now second attempt, with intentionally aborting the password prompt, opening the apps, THEN starting up the file systems again, and opening them again Mar 12 16:20:45 email still sees the accounts? that's bad. After some time, however, email program crashed. Mar 12 16:20:57 still, apparently SOME account data is outside ~/.modest Mar 12 16:21:19 MicroB still has its bookmarks... WTF Mar 12 16:23:41 ah, ~/.bookmarks also has to go in then Mar 12 16:24:00 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1328586#post1328586 Mar 12 16:24:02 ./.config/hildon-desktop/notifications.db Mar 12 16:24:41 is the hard resetting link stuff normal? Mar 12 16:26:40 AH, the email accounts are ONLY visible because of PVR files that store the previous content Mar 12 16:32:35 divVerent: you'll most likely want to mount over some non-empty existing firs like ~/.config etc Mar 12 16:32:55 s/firs/dirs/ Mar 12 16:32:58 DocScrutinizer05 meant: divVerent: you'll most likely want to mount over some non-empty existing dirs like ~/.config etc Mar 12 16:33:57 DocScrutinizer05: I want to avoid mounting over :P Mar 12 16:34:12 and instead I want access before authentication to fail Mar 12 16:34:21 achieved by Estel_'s idea to have dead symlinks until authentication Mar 12 16:34:25 you will run into pleathora of trouble doing not Mar 12 16:34:31 really? Mar 12 16:34:35 for email this did the very right thing Mar 12 16:34:39 and I will only use a few dirs for it Mar 12 16:34:52 for email, the only problem is that it complains every sync interval that it crashed Mar 12 16:35:05 and that the email program cannot be opened until mounted Mar 12 16:35:13 processes will not accept stale symlinks as replacement for the real files, when you start up without proper crypt-volume mounted Mar 12 16:35:23 exactly that's the intention Mar 12 16:35:28 I want any access to FAIL, the process to exit Mar 12 16:35:39 (usually, that is) Mar 12 16:35:42 it usually will not do that Mar 12 16:35:53 usually means? Mar 12 16:35:56 I only need it for email Mar 12 16:36:15 the only folders I am putting in are .bookmarks .mozilla .modest .ssh Mar 12 16:36:23 instead it will create new files, or segfault on failing to do so, or show even more strange behaviour, possibly even bootloops Mar 12 16:36:31 no, it will NOT create new files Mar 12 16:36:35 that is the idea of the dead symlink Mar 12 16:36:45 because these are in the way of typical routines to auto create new directories Mar 12 16:37:07 what I want to avoid is that programs create a new folder and work in that before mount Mar 12 16:37:22 so when I then DO mount, programs continue to use the already opened files from the plain text location Mar 12 16:37:24 you seen there been TWO ", or..." clauses in my post? Mar 12 16:37:33 yes Mar 12 16:37:39 which is why I am trying out how the programs behave Mar 12 16:37:44 if they segfault I don't care ;) Mar 12 16:37:51 as long as starting them again will properly restore them Mar 12 16:38:00 it won't Mar 12 16:38:07 it depends on the program, of course Mar 12 16:38:14 all those processes are started by dsme Mar 12 16:38:29 then I may need hacks to restart these once mount Mar 12 16:38:38 but I do NOT want them to e.g. receive email before mount Mar 12 16:38:51 email however DOES behave the right way Mar 12 16:39:02 browser does "not really", it opens with empty bookmarks and password store (that is the good part) Mar 12 16:39:15 yes, exactly Mar 12 16:39:38 browser is one of these I will need to restart Mar 12 16:39:47 since browserd gets started early in boot, by dsme and restarts like 10 times when segfaulting or killed, then reboots device Mar 12 16:39:52 exactly Mar 12 16:40:09 well, it doesn't make the browser crash, just run with empty bookmarks and data Mar 12 16:40:13 email does the VERY right thing Mar 12 16:40:18 in the end it seems to all depend on the program Mar 12 16:41:01 I don't argue single "works" cases now, no time for that. Juts telling you there are enough cases where it won't work as suggested by you Mar 12 16:41:02 I only want to secure whatever contains passwords or other remote system authorization, which means browser, email, and SSH Mar 12 16:41:08 right Mar 12 16:41:19 but there is nothing that always works Mar 12 16:41:29 e.g. browser also will NOT be fixed by simply mounting over dummy data Mar 12 16:41:33 it will STILL need restarting Mar 12 16:41:45 yeah, even communication fails more often than not Mar 12 16:41:46 cya Mar 12 16:42:24 and e.g. I am not encrypting ~/.config, for example Mar 12 16:42:32 cu Mar 12 16:42:46 for .config it would be indeed QUITE difficult to do right Mar 12 16:46:24 btw when modest starts with empty config where no accounts and passwords are stored, it hardly will receive mail before you finished mounting your cryted stuff. So a non-issue Mar 12 16:47:20 yes, but it may still keep FDs open Mar 12 16:47:32 basically, what I want to avoid is a hack-o-matic like here: Mar 12 16:47:33 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70539 Mar 12 16:47:51 rather with my suggestion you device will startup clean and normal like an ordinary maemo5, with no defunct stuff, just with default virgin stuff. And nobody will suspect anything. And you're free to switch to crypt-privacy mode any time Mar 12 16:48:40 right Mar 12 16:48:58 I would LIKE that... except that there is no clean way to tell all the programs to reread their data Mar 12 16:49:04 but as I see, for browser this cannot be avoided anyway Mar 12 16:49:19 just restart all processes that have file handles open to the virgin dirs of pre-cryptmount time Mar 12 16:49:42 hm... nice idea, so using empty dirs, overmounting and fuser :P Mar 12 16:49:54 but, next thing, what if a program read data from there then cached it in memory Mar 12 16:50:10 which the bookmarks handling appears to do Mar 12 16:50:12 it will get killed Mar 12 16:50:24 just restart all processes that have file handles open to the virgin dirs of pre-cryptmount time Mar 12 16:52:30 ok, "killall browser" brings back the bookmarks after mount Mar 12 16:52:33 wonder what browserd keeps open Mar 12 16:52:59 ah, password store, need to restart that too then Mar 12 16:53:25 now the fun part would be restarting the services properly via upstart :P Mar 12 16:53:39 is there a way to find upstart service from process ID? Mar 12 16:53:45 IIRC systemd has such a feature Mar 12 16:55:31 dsme Mar 12 16:56:57 divVerent: really, your encryption stuff should happen *before* the system boots Mar 12 16:57:42 yes, ideally Mar 12 16:57:48 that was my first attempt :P Mar 12 16:58:00 the catch THERE is that I then basically have to encrypt /home whole or not at all Mar 12 16:58:13 and I don't want that (/opt...) Mar 12 16:58:35 the only clean way to get keyboard input is from preinit, or even before Mar 12 16:58:48 from an upstart job, it's already not cleanly possible any more Mar 12 16:59:12 so the best way to integrate THAT would be changing the init= parameter to a script that first mounts the encrypted partition, then exec /sbin/preinit Mar 12 16:59:45 the encfs way on the other hand allows being selective in what you encrypt and what not Mar 12 17:00:23 but as encfs has to be run AFTER mount of /home, it basically only really can be run once X is up Mar 12 17:00:35 (again, so it can get keyboard input) Mar 12 17:01:52 I also found out that if preinit stage already mounted /home, rcS-late will silently skip it Mar 12 17:02:04 so this way would need zero changes in existing scripts Mar 12 17:17:23 DocScrutinizer05: one alternate way BTW may be an upstart scriopt that launches X11 before the actual startup... Mar 12 17:17:26 and that runs early enough Mar 12 17:17:31 are there any chances this would work well? Mar 12 17:17:47 (or, that at least somehow stops the blinking dots then abuses text2screen) Mar 12 17:18:02 (which however would not solve the keyboard input issue...) Mar 12 17:51:24 DocScrutinizer05: I think this was the page. http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team Probably needs a fair update. Mar 12 19:14:32 hm, power50 oopsed in power management code Mar 12 19:15:31 oh nm, looks like an old oops Mar 12 20:30:27 hey, what is the state of autobuilder? Mar 12 20:31:08 btw, I've tried to find something at wiki last night, it wasn't work, noticed message advertising downtime on tmo, so gave up reporting Mar 12 20:31:26 divVerent, qhy you constantly like to make your life harder?:P Mar 12 20:32:21 either do as DocScrutinizer05 suggested with vanilla folders and overmounting, or do like me with dead symlinks (which btw, works for most .config things too). Mar 12 20:32:58 all this text2screen before actual upstart is PITA, and may get depreciated with some cssu update or whatsnot Mar 12 20:33:16 dead symlinks is probably even cleaner Mar 12 20:33:23 * Estel_ nods Mar 12 20:33:27 because things will get error messages Mar 12 20:33:34 and you *really* can't open a dead link, afaik Mar 12 20:34:07 thats why I use it, in practice,. But if someone want plausible deniability more, vanilla overmount files are the way to go Mar 12 20:34:31 I just want to have my things secure, not hide fact that I'm using truecrypt, so I don't care here Mar 12 20:35:21 anyway, vanilla overmounted files require restarting things that use them (for practice, it doesn't matter if via upstart or restart or killall ;) ) Mar 12 20:36:01 while symlinks just need mounting in timeframe of ~2 minutes since boot finishes Mar 12 20:36:57 or, restart of things like with vanilla overmounted folders Mar 12 20:37:09 no much philosophy here, either way Mar 12 20:37:09 hello Mar 12 20:37:13 hi there Mar 12 20:38:21 Estel_: I was talking to Doc about both subjects last night Mar 12 20:38:32 (wiki and builder) Mar 12 20:38:55 oh, nice. My comment about wiki was just because he was sad nobody reported Mar 12 20:39:02 annoucement on tmo was misleading Mar 12 20:39:11 so what about builder? Mar 12 20:39:26 last time jacekowski was almost done with repairing it Mar 12 20:39:53 Estel_: even better plausible deniability would be to have a completely vanilla system and then have the whole maemo on a truecrypted usd that can be booted with a modified uboot by holding a certain key combination and inserting a password Mar 12 20:40:11 I noticed bug in bnf sudoers (not to mention that new version for Pali's modules was released a month ago), so I'm interested in fixing it in repos ;) Mar 12 20:40:11 but at that point, it starts to get silly Mar 12 20:40:21 wiki was broken last night "DB Error" on new w.m.o, old w.m.o timing out Mar 12 20:40:23 kerio, yep Mar 12 20:40:29 unless you live in iran Mar 12 20:40:37 or ~ country Mar 12 20:41:21 sixwheeledbeast, when I tried it it worked, although slowly as global heating Mar 12 20:41:48 btw of course no on from nemein replied at all to report about wiki contributions being kinda broken Mar 12 20:42:07 is nemein paid by nokia at this point? do we know? Mar 12 20:42:29 no idea, but they were paid to make migration right Mar 12 20:42:34 builder:- seemingly works for dput/scp AFAIK, but I uploaded a package with extras assistant and it's still broken probably due to the python update >6 months ago Mar 12 20:42:42 and wiki contribs got screwed during migration Mar 12 20:42:57 sixwheeledbeast, I see, scp seems like enough Mar 12 20:43:03 but, what I need scp into? Mar 12 20:43:11 old adress won't work, probably? Mar 12 20:43:43 does the contract with them include any other managed hosting other than the work done to migrate it from nokia? Mar 12 20:43:46 I gave up trying with scp, as did Marxian and MartinK IIRC Mar 12 20:44:25 I wonder when CSSU get defucked in repos, as I would like to switch my catalogs to repos from mirrors Mar 12 20:44:35 and not feeling fancy to keep half here and half there :P Mar 12 20:44:58 ShadowJK, I may talk bullshit, but afaik no hosting after migration from them per contract Mar 12 20:45:26 but, still, migration was screwed (some databases or parts of it were not migrated, thus no link between contributions and contributors - in wiki) Mar 12 20:45:30 I am on /etc/hosts tweak at the moment, I guess it's the same for uploading via scp Mar 12 20:45:41 i see Mar 12 20:45:53 so rest of path remained the same, just ip changed. OK Mar 12 20:45:59 will bang autobuilder with scp, later Mar 12 20:46:11 of course mail reports doesnt work, yes? Mar 12 20:46:16 of course mail reports doesnt work, yes? Mar 12 20:46:18 whatever Mar 12 20:46:22 sorry, echo Mar 12 20:46:27 I meant are not working Mar 12 20:46:36 I got nutting and nutting got built AFAIK Mar 12 20:48:07 ough Mar 12 20:48:20 even via scp nuttinella got build? Mar 12 20:48:36 via web iface tho, no scp Mar 12 20:48:42 s/no/not/ Mar 12 20:48:44 sixwheeledbeast meant: via web iface tho, not scp Mar 12 20:49:17 I believe a couple of pkgs have been built via scp Mar 12 20:50:23 Estel_: 213.128.137.21 wiki.maemo.org bugs.maemo.org Mar 12 20:50:23 213.128.137.20 www.maemo.org static.maemo.org maemo.org planet.maemo.org downloads.maemo.org Mar 12 20:50:46 I'm shutting down talk for syncing. Mar 12 20:50:54 * Estel_ nods Mar 12 20:53:31 Estel_ no nutella at all :p Mar 12 22:36:42 There are lumps (pages) of the wiki missing, do we know about it? Mar 12 22:41:18 do they show up in history Mar 12 22:55:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:RecentChanges some of the pages here are broken/blank like the infra one for example Mar 12 23:02:19 Estel_: autobuilder is working Mar 12 23:02:22 Estel_: that's the state of it Mar 12 23:03:07 jacekowski: did you try to push KP through it? Mar 12 23:04:26 KP? Mar 12 23:04:49 kernel-power, it is famous in breaking autobuilder Mar 12 23:05:10 nope Mar 12 23:15:35 well, trying it now Mar 13 02:08:46 thanks, jacekowski Mar 13 02:09:02 hey, i just saw some thread "intros" made by some funny guy that Imve never heard about Mar 13 02:09:24 acclaiming that he was appointed to take position in BoD, instead of elections Mar 13 02:09:42 I would take it a joke, but knowing how miracolously maemo is managed, it's probably true, yep? Mar 13 02:10:06 why won't we outright declare monarchy and buy, IDK, sealand? (lmgtfo: sealand) Mar 13 02:10:49 just teasing a little - I found that thread extremely amusing to read, even if came there by accident ("intros" suggest, that he wanted to know about managing intro videos for N900...) Mar 13 02:30:16 indeed, the thread title is poorly chosen, and his introduction is missing even his clear full name Mar 13 02:30:50 and yes, he got appointed by sd69, as clearly is written in this thread Mar 13 02:31:46 it's a followup to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1328124#post1328124 Mar 13 02:33:56 I think the thread title should be "A personal introduction by JimJag" Mar 13 02:33:57 about declaring monarchy, you're somewhat behind of most recent events. We basically already had (or still have?) that, and council and a few others are fighting it ( :-P tongue in cheek) Mar 13 02:34:12 yes Mar 13 02:34:19 ok will change it now Mar 13 02:34:23 :-) Mar 13 02:34:31 maybe use his full name instead Mar 13 02:34:44 jagielski? Mar 13 02:34:48 what's his full name Mar 13 02:34:49 oh Mar 13 02:35:01 please check Mar 13 02:35:04 Jim Jagielski Mar 13 02:35:29 done ;) Mar 13 02:35:58 "A personal introduction by Jim Jagielscy [appointed HiFo BoD member]" Mar 13 02:36:51 " > A personal introduction by Jimjag (Jim Jagielski) " Mar 13 02:37:07 you want the HiFo part? seems a bit biased, no? Mar 13 02:37:25 s/biased/sarcastic/ Mar 13 02:37:26 thedead1440 meant: you want the HiFo part? seems a bit sarcastic, no? Mar 13 02:40:39 well, it's not meant sarcastic Mar 13 02:41:15 change it to "[Hildon Foundation] A personal introduction by Jimjag (Jim Jagielski) " if you think that's better Mar 13 02:44:07 yeah that's better **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 13 02:59:58 2013