**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 03 02:59:58 2013
Apr 03 06:34:52 <jacekowski> freemangordon: memory usage doesn't drop a lot after than unset
Apr 03 06:35:09 <jacekowski> freemangordon: it's still about 20k/entry processed
Apr 03 09:30:41 <Drathir> DocScrutinizer05: working for you share gprs from n900 throught wifi? 
Apr 03 10:41:15 <jacekowski> Drathir: it works for everyone
Apr 03 10:51:42 <XATRIX> DocScrutinizer05: how can i temporarily disable APN ?
Apr 03 10:52:10 <XATRIX> fAPN shows me only one MMS AP, but i have the default one Internet
Apr 03 10:52:17 <XATRIX> fAPN doesn't detect it
Apr 03 10:52:31 <DocScrutinizer05> XATRIX: I usually change apn username by adding an X
Apr 03 10:52:54 <XATRIX> where ?
Apr 03 10:52:58 <DocScrutinizer05> frals: ^^^^
Apr 03 10:53:29 <XATRIX> BTW , i chose Internet as my default AP in "Connection settings" and Autoscan and connect to Internet
Apr 03 10:53:47 <frals> wow, people are still using that... :D
Apr 03 10:53:48 <XATRIX> But after i get out of a subway it autoconnects to MMS O_o
Apr 03 10:54:07 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
Apr 03 10:54:10 <XATRIX> It shouldn't connect MMS in 99.9% of a time
Apr 03 10:55:01 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, my tips won't help here. Ask frals
Apr 03 10:55:25 <frals> shit, cant remember exactly how it worked since i havent touched it in 2 years or so, but iirc if it picks the wrong one its because the name in gconf is "wrong"
Apr 03 10:55:32 * XATRIX 's asking frals...
Apr 03 10:55:46 <frals> did you add the MMS apn thru apn or did fMMS add it?
Apr 03 10:56:05 <XATRIX> fMMS seems to add it
Apr 03 10:56:24 <frals> iirc i implemented some magic stuff in fmms to sort it so the MMS access point was always at the bottom of the gconf tree so icd would pick the internet one
Apr 03 10:56:28 <XATRIX> I never added MMS
Apr 03 10:56:43 <XATRIX> hm
Apr 03 10:57:24 <DocScrutinizer05> frals: btw thanks for the f in fAPN and fMMS, otherwise I had forgotten who coded it since years ;-)
Apr 03 10:58:04 <frals> ;)
Apr 03 10:58:24 <XATRIX> Actually i don't see the screen in fMMS where can i change the order of APs
Apr 03 10:58:28 <frals> XATRIX: fAPN filters out the list of APs to only show user created ones (or created by fMMS)
Apr 03 10:59:05 <XATRIX> I get Options, here i have 3 types of settings "Internet-connection" "Change the size" "Network type"
Apr 03 10:59:57 <frals> you could check gconf under /osso/system/connectivity/
Apr 03 11:00:08 <frals> and check the dir name of the MMS accesspoint and try to rename it
Apr 03 11:00:19 <XATRIX> Where is it ? 
Apr 03 11:00:24 <XATRIX> I never used gconf
Apr 03 11:00:30 <frals> gconftool --help :)
Apr 03 11:00:44 <frals> it might break stuff thou, so tread easy
Apr 03 11:00:58 <frals> theres prolly some guide in the fmms thread on tmo
Apr 03 11:01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> gconftool -R /osso/system/connectivity/
Apr 03 11:01:27 <frals> since it was a common problem in the beginning but in the last versions i either fixed it or people stopped caring :)
Apr 03 11:01:55 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, not right cmdline
Apr 03 11:03:33 <XATRIX> Nokia-N900:~# gconftool -R /osso/system/connectivity
Apr 03 11:03:34 <XATRIX> Nokia-N900:~# 
Apr 03 11:03:37 <XATRIX> gives me nothing out
Apr 03 11:04:53 <DocScrutinizer05> gconftool -R /system/osso/connectivity   maybe
Apr 03 11:09:17 <XATRIX> http://fpaste.org/ASbj/
Apr 03 11:09:37 <XATRIX> Seems like my MMS is the second one
Apr 03 11:09:42 <XATRIX> Isn't it ?
Apr 03 11:12:43 <DocScrutinizer05> gconftool -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP ?
Apr 03 11:13:03 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry I don't have multiple IAPs
Apr 03 11:13:24 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly no MMS IAP
Apr 03 11:15:21 <XATRIX> hm
Apr 03 11:15:27 <XATRIX> frals: any ideas ?
Apr 03 11:17:44 <frals> XATRIX: weird, IIRC that should be the "correct" way to make it autoconnect to the right one
Apr 03 11:18:19 <XATRIX> Yes, but when it loose the signal
Apr 03 11:18:26 <XATRIX> It reconnects to MMS
Apr 03 11:18:35 <XATRIX> Instead of Internet
Apr 03 11:19:09 <frals> hm, it never heard of that before, it should try to connect to the same one afaik
Apr 03 11:19:49 <frals> -it
Apr 03 11:20:11 <frals> sorry cant really help you any more than that :/
Apr 03 11:20:50 <XATRIX> great :(
Apr 03 11:21:21 <frals> you could always remove the mms apn, but then fmms wont work that good :)
Apr 03 11:23:00 <frals> hmm
Apr 03 11:23:52 <frals> if you know python you could modify fMMS to disable/enable the APN before/after it needs to use it
Apr 03 11:23:59 <frals> i wonder why i didnt do that...
Apr 03 11:27:21 <XATRIX> yea
Apr 03 11:27:28 <XATRIX> i don't know python
Apr 03 11:27:52 <XATRIX> how can i edit /system/osso/connectivity/IAP ? 
Apr 03 11:31:04 <DocScrutinizer05> with gconftool
Apr 03 11:39:16 <sixwheeledbeast> mhm, sudoers makes no sense in maemo, either that or my sudoers file is borked
Apr 03 11:39:28 <sixwheeledbeast> or both
Apr 03 11:55:00 <sixwheeledbeast> if I have scripts that need root the correct way to add them to sudoers is:-
Apr 03 11:55:04 <sixwheeledbeast> user ALL = NOPASSWD: /opt/foo/script/ *
Apr 03 11:55:05 <sixwheeledbeast> ?
Apr 03 12:02:18 <Drathir> jacekowski: by script or app wich one is better? when i check last time mobile hot spot dont works and reboot the phone...
Apr 03 12:04:10 <jacekowski> mobile hot spot
Apr 03 12:04:14 <jacekowski> and you need KP for it
Apr 03 12:10:58 <Drathir> jacekowski: yes KP is running how i can check or where i can check what error caused reboot the phone when try to enable sharing with mobile hot spot?
Apr 03 12:19:09 <jacekowski> bootreason
Apr 03 12:53:53 <unifly> hi
Apr 03 13:12:02 * sixwheeledbeast sighs and grumbles
Apr 03 13:16:09 <unifly> hey i build Pencil a software for make 2d animation on n900, anyone interested?
Apr 03 13:21:32 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: you need to add them to a new file in sudoers.d/*, then run update_sudoers
Apr 03 13:21:52 <DocScrutinizer05> DO NOT edit /etc/sudoers
Apr 03 13:22:39 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: Yep. /etc/sudoers.d/foo.sudoers
Apr 03 13:22:47 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Apr 03 13:23:09 <DocScrutinizer05> should just work
Apr 03 13:23:20 <sixwheeledbeast> I still can't get the scripts to work
Apr 03 13:23:54 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
Apr 03 13:24:15 <sixwheeledbeast> it's the "nice" and "swapon" command in the script that fails, if that makes any diff
Apr 03 13:25:50 <sixwheeledbeast> works fine in a root shell
Apr 03 13:26:26 <DocScrutinizer05> path wrong?
Apr 03 13:26:31 <DocScrutinizer05> wrong shell?
Apr 03 13:26:45 <vi__> Is  it possible to send IMs from the command line on the N900?
Apr 03 13:26:51 <DocScrutinizer05> nice and swapon are builtins of messybox
Apr 03 13:27:52 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: you're aware that you usually should use FQN for binaries, in scripts?
Apr 03 13:28:35 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: which kind of IM?
Apr 03 13:28:49 * sixwheeledbeast ducks FQN...
Apr 03 13:28:55 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: ...but generally, I dunno
Apr 03 13:29:08 <sixwheeledbeast> oh so "/sbin/swapon"
Apr 03 13:29:13 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Apr 03 13:29:32 <DocScrutinizer05> never take path or shell as granted in scripts
Apr 03 13:29:59 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly */sbin
Apr 03 13:30:21 <DocScrutinizer05> your "user" path usually doesn't contain sbins
Apr 03 13:30:38 <DocScrutinizer05> sudo doesn't change that
Apr 03 13:31:13 <sixwheeledbeast> oh thanks I didn't think about that, so how to translate "nice -19 swapon foo"
Apr 03 13:31:29 <sixwheeledbeast> /usr/bin/nice -19 /sbin/swapon foo
Apr 03 13:31:34 <DocScrutinizer05> /sbin/nice -19 swapon foo
Apr 03 13:31:46 <sixwheeledbeast> oh
Apr 03 13:31:51 <sixwheeledbeast> ok :)
Apr 03 13:31:52 <DocScrutinizer05> or wherever nice might be
Apr 03 13:32:04 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, probably is in /bin
Apr 03 13:32:23 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# which nice
Apr 03 13:32:24 <DocScrutinizer05> /usr/bin/gnu/nice
Apr 03 13:32:26 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
Apr 03 13:32:30 <DocScrutinizer05> not for you
Apr 03 13:33:14 <DocScrutinizer05> I sometimes revert to defining an explicit $PATH at start of my script
Apr 03 13:34:17 <DocScrutinizer05> /bin/busybox nice  -19 swapon foo
Apr 03 13:34:22 <DocScrutinizer05> should always work
Apr 03 13:34:34 <DocScrutinizer05> if busybox nice would ever work as expected
Apr 03 13:35:44 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# ll /usr/bin/nice 
Apr 03 13:35:45 <DocScrutinizer05> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 2012-09-11 15:34 /usr/bin/nice -> /bin/busybox
Apr 03 13:36:03 <sixwheeledbeast> thank you very much, will give that a go.
Apr 03 13:38:56 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# /bin/busybox nice  -19 nice
Apr 03 13:38:57 <DocScrutinizer05> 0
Apr 03 13:39:30 <DocScrutinizer05> which evidently is fux0red
Apr 03 13:39:54 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# nice  -19 nice
Apr 03 13:39:56 <DocScrutinizer05> 19
Apr 03 13:40:19 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# nice  -n -19 nice
Apr 03 13:40:21 <DocScrutinizer05> -19
Apr 03 13:41:11 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# nice --version
Apr 03 13:41:13 <DocScrutinizer05> nice (GNU coreutils) 8.4
Apr 03 13:43:21 <DocScrutinizer05> busybox obviously has an alias for nice that changes *own* niceness, but that doesn't help for executing the command after nice if it's not an internal busybox cmd
Apr 03 13:43:42 <DocScrutinizer05> sth thoroughly fux0red in busybox nice
Apr 03 13:48:47 <sixwheeledbeast> grr, messybox! may have to drop nice after trying above
Apr 03 13:57:13 <vi__> wait are you saying BB nice does not work for any program that is not busybox?
Apr 03 13:59:54 <sixwheeledbeast> vi__: seems so
Apr 03 14:00:20 <vi__> ...then it is fucking useless.
Apr 03 14:01:02 <vi__> but swapon/off are busybox aliases...right?
Apr 03 14:03:15 <vi__> There is a special place in the lowest circles of programmers hell specifically for perpetrators of my sins today.
Apr 03 14:07:19 <vi__> On a scale of 0-10 I would rate this code unconscionable.
Apr 03 14:08:27 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: /sbin/swapon /dev/foo: Operation not permitted
Apr 03 14:09:28 <kerio> sixwheeledbeast: are you root?
Apr 03 14:09:34 <kerio> is /dev/foo correctly mkswapped?
Apr 03 14:09:40 <kerio> is /dev/foo writable
Apr 03 14:09:41 <kerio> ?
Apr 03 14:13:43 <sixwheeledbeast> kerio: script is suppose to be added to sudoers, swaps work fine
Apr 03 14:14:01 <kerio> what's the command to swapon?
Apr 03 14:14:05 <kerio> like, the full command
Apr 03 14:14:31 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# ll /sbin/swapon
Apr 03 14:14:33 <DocScrutinizer05> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 2012-09-11 15:34 /sbin/swapon -> /bin/busybox
Apr 03 14:14:49 <kerio> busybox swapon should work fine
Apr 03 14:15:51 <DocScrutinizer05> if messybox not acting up again, and if an "id" immediately before "busybox swapon" shows you're root, then yes
Apr 03 14:38:14 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: kerio: /bin/busybox swapon /dev/mmcblk1p2
Apr 03 14:38:28 <kerio> hm
Apr 03 14:38:45 <sixwheeledbeast> it must be a root issue works in a root shell
Apr 03 14:38:47 <kerio> why not just /sbin/swapon /dev/mmcblk1p2? n.b.: it shouldn't change anything
Apr 03 14:38:53 <kerio> alright
Apr 03 14:39:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I *guess* messybox does a first sane thing: drop privileges
Apr 03 14:40:01 <sixwheeledbeast> so there is not a way of doing this as "user" even if script is in sudoers?
Apr 03 14:40:15 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: it shouldn't
Apr 03 14:40:20 <kerio> sixwheeledbeast: sudo that should work fine
Apr 03 14:40:26 <kerio> ditto sudo a script that contains that
Apr 03 14:40:30 <kerio> you're probably lying
Apr 03 14:40:38 <sixwheeledbeast> er
Apr 03 14:41:07 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: you're probably not a polite person
Apr 03 14:41:20 <kerio> :<
Apr 03 14:42:56 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: try specifying #!/bin/busybox as your script interpreter
Apr 03 14:43:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I dunno which hickups messybox has
Apr 03 14:43:36 <sixwheeledbeast> er no
Apr 03 14:44:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ?
Apr 03 14:45:04 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: oh try
Apr 03 14:45:27 <sixwheeledbeast> sixwheeledbeast: applet not found
Apr 03 14:45:53 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ even
Apr 03 14:46:59 <DocScrutinizer05> uh?
Apr 03 14:47:12 <Drathir> how to fix  Read-only file system
Apr 03 14:47:30 <Drathir> reboot be enough?
Apr 03 14:47:37 <DocScrutinizer05> usually not
Apr 03 14:48:02 <sixwheeledbeast> that's what happens if I change interpreter and run
Apr 03 14:48:32 <DocScrutinizer05> well, it probably has a certain line that causes this
Apr 03 14:48:37 <DocScrutinizer05> in script
Apr 03 14:48:49 <DocScrutinizer05> I can't see it in my crystal ball
Apr 03 14:49:20 <DocScrutinizer05> set -v might help
Apr 03 14:50:14 <DocScrutinizer05> of course you shouldn't call applet commands in a script run by busybox as "busybox <applet> ..."
Apr 03 14:51:26 <Drathir> i mean fix My Docs is seeing like ro when try to delete a file... brb try reboot...
Apr 03 14:56:22 <vi__> Why not just install/steal/copy debian swapon/off?
Apr 03 15:00:42 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: using /bin/busybox as the shell will call /bin/busybox yourscript
Apr 03 15:00:50 <kerio> and yourscript isn't a valid busybox applet
Apr 03 15:01:02 <kerio> if you want to make sure you're using busybox for your script, use #!/bin/busybox sh
Apr 03 15:01:10 <sixwheeledbeast> http://pastebin.com/jsH6hJg6 http://pastebin.com/8UHWuGMW
Apr 03 15:01:24 <sixwheeledbeast> no crystal ball required
Apr 03 15:02:45 <Drathir> restart dont work again have touch: test: Read-only file system
Apr 03 15:03:33 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: LOL, nice
Apr 03 15:05:02 <Drathir> how i can  fsck My Docs or remount it ?
Apr 03 15:06:31 <kerio> you probably don't want to fsck it anyway
Apr 03 15:06:47 <kerio> connect to a computer in mass storage mode, copy the copiable, format, and copy back
Apr 03 15:07:55 <Drathir> http://pastebin.com/5V2tH3Rc
Apr 03 15:08:31 <Drathir> kerio: ok thx a lot
Apr 03 15:08:51 <kerio> if you have enough space, that is
Apr 03 15:09:04 <kerio> doing a fsck is only really worth it if you don't have enough backing space to copy, format and copy back, imo
Apr 03 15:09:08 <kerio> or if it's really a lot of data
Apr 03 15:15:35 <Drathir> kerio: little a lot of data but i try to manage a space to cp...
Apr 03 15:27:19 <DocScrutinizer05> I think kerio forgot a tiny but important detail: fixing the MyDocs fs
Apr 03 15:27:35 <kerio> i said format it
Apr 03 15:27:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, yep
Apr 03 15:28:04 <kerio> ok, to be fair you should copy the copiable, then fsck, then copy the copiable, then format, then copy back
Apr 03 15:28:19 <DocScrutinizer05> missed that since it's a rather unusual term in linux
Apr 03 15:28:30 <kerio> fair
Apr 03 15:28:39 <kerio> cp, mkfs, cp
Apr 03 15:28:55 <kerio> hey, what do you know, it's also how you defrag in unix
Apr 03 15:36:08 <Drathir> ok i delete file causing the problem and sadly didnt help now show something like that Reclaimed 1838 unused clusters (120455168 bytes).
Apr 03 15:36:11 <Drathir> Free cluster summary wrong (324115 vs. really 326911)
Apr 03 15:37:21 <Drathir> ech i think no other way to han format...
Apr 03 15:39:27 <Drathir> fsck from pc is the same that built in?
Apr 03 15:40:01 <Drathir> one good things is that fs is no more in ro mode...
Apr 03 15:49:30 <Drathir> it is very risky to using fs in this way ?
Apr 03 16:51:16 <sixwheeledbeast> ah kerio, you beauty I get it now. :facepalm:
Apr 03 16:51:50 <kerio> infobot: no, kerio is <sixwheeledbeast> ah kerio, you beauty
Apr 03 16:51:50 <infobot> kerio: cannot alter locked factoids
Apr 03 16:52:02 <kerio> but i'm the one who locked it
Apr 03 16:52:06 <kerio> s
Apr 03 16:52:08 <kerio> ~useless
Apr 03 16:52:08 * infobot starts crying and hides from kerio in the darkest corner of the room. :(
Apr 03 16:52:57 <sixwheeledbeast> er
Apr 03 16:53:55 <sixwheeledbeast> kerio is locked factiod
Apr 03 17:01:54 <Drathir> kerio: bot source code is public?
Apr 03 17:02:05 <kerio> hm, i don't know
Apr 03 17:02:10 <ShadowJK> infobot, yes
Apr 03 17:02:11 <infobot> from memory, yes is the opposite of no
Apr 03 17:02:30 <ShadowJK> Well, sort of. It's a huge mass of perl.
Apr 03 19:19:07 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf?
Apr 03 19:21:03 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!
Apr 03 19:37:07 <DocScrutinizer05> kerio: you locked it
Apr 03 19:37:14 <DocScrutinizer05> you can unlock it
Apr 03 19:37:45 <DocScrutinizer05> probably not even I can alter locked factoids
Apr 03 19:37:59 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: no, kerio is <sixwheeledbeast> ah kerio, you beauty
Apr 03 19:37:59 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
Apr 03 19:38:09 <DocScrutinizer05> *shrug* I can ;-P
Apr 03 19:38:20 <DocScrutinizer05> ~factinfo kerio
Apr 03 19:38:21 <infobot> kerio -- created by kerio <kerio@unaffiliated/kerio> at Tue Aug  7 21:11:47 2012 (238 days); last modified 22s ago  by DocScrutinizer05!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 15 times, last by kerio, 2d 9h 15m 29s ago; it has been locked by kerio.
Apr 03 21:46:20 <sixwheeledbeast> ~kerio
Apr 03 21:46:21 <infobot> rumour has it, kerio is <sixwheeledbeast> ah kerio, you beauty
Apr 03 21:46:36 <sixwheeledbeast> rumour has it?
Apr 03 22:22:06 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders what those 6 wheels might be
Apr 03 22:23:23 <sixwheeledbeast> ~wiki Dodge T-rex
Apr 03 22:23:37 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_T-Rex (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Infobox automobile |name = Dodge T-Rex |image = |manufacturer = Dodge |production = 7 units total{{Citation needed|date=May 2010}} |model_year = 1997 |class = concept vehicle |engine = {{convert|8.0|L|cuin|0|abbr=on}} 20-valve 90° MagnumV-10 |transmission = Chrysler 47RE |front axle = Dana 60 |middle axle = Dana 60 |rear axle = Dana 60 |brakes = Front: disc, Rear: drum |tires = ...
Apr 03 22:32:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ooooh!
Apr 03 22:33:08 <sixwheeledbeast> I always wanted one
Apr 03 22:33:26 <sixwheeledbeast> only 7 made :(
Apr 03 22:40:42 * sixwheeledbeast yawns
Apr 03 22:40:48 <sixwheeledbeast> gn #maemo
Apr 03 22:43:31 <DocScrutinizer05> gn
Apr 03 22:43:40 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/2fe9a78f10  <-smart :-(((
Apr 03 23:03:00 <DocScrutinizer05> HMMMM http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=8552215#post8552215  I must have pulled a lemon
Apr 04 00:01:54 <eccerr0r> is there a way to change the behavior of keyboard longpress to get the blue character? (like, instead of dumping the new character and then deleting the original, delete the original first then dump new character?)
Apr 04 00:03:06 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Apr 04 00:03:44 <eccerr0r> when you longpress it gives the white character, then the blue character, then escape bracket escape bracket C or something like that
Apr 04 00:04:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't like that stuff, have changed it to sane autorepeat
Apr 04 00:04:26 <eccerr0r> heh
Apr 04 00:04:32 <eccerr0r> that would be useful too
Apr 04 00:04:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Apr 04 00:04:42 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Apr 04 00:05:24 <eccerr0r> i find i have to type symbols a lot, and if it would just do backspace and then the blue character, it would work for typing in passwords.
Apr 04 00:16:00 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly passwords should get typed in a unambiguous manner
Apr 04 00:16:23 <DocScrutinizer05> if you need a symbol, press the bluekey qualifier
Apr 04 00:16:58 <robbiethe1st> Well, DocS, any N900-killers out there yet?
Apr 04 00:17:09 <DocScrutinizer05> killers?
Apr 04 00:17:13 <RiD> robbiethe1st a second N900
Apr 04 00:17:32 <robbiethe1st> You know, replacements, anything that actually comes close to the usability of a N900
Apr 04 00:17:41 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah
Apr 04 00:17:48 <DocScrutinizer05> nothing I heard of
Apr 04 00:18:12 <RiD> its hard nowadays to find flagship phones with hw keyboards
Apr 04 00:18:24 <RiD> let alone everything else :d
Apr 04 00:18:25 <robbiethe1st> I know. It sucks.
Apr 04 00:18:25 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Apr 04 00:18:55 <RiD> on one side, i dont find virtual keyboard THAT bad, but i can't type without looking at it...without making mistakes
Apr 04 00:19:15 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, exactly the point
Apr 04 00:19:19 <robbiethe1st> What's sad is that even Nokia's Swipe interface is more intuitive than Android, and that's a couple steps behind my N900 :\
Apr 04 00:19:21 <eccerr0r> typing in numbers into something that doesn't use readline also would be nice.  and even some GUI applications appears to break with longpress...  I just find it annoying to type + where you have to move both hands to the left to type them.
Apr 04 00:19:43 <RiD> and then the keyboard eats half of the screen
Apr 04 00:19:55 <RiD> terrible for long texts
Apr 04 00:20:33 <robbiethe1st> Let alone posting page-long comments on Slashdot
Apr 04 00:27:09 <DocScrutinizer05> eccerr0r: you're aware that you can press+release blue qualifier key? It's sticky for next keypress
Apr 04 00:27:42 <DocScrutinizer05> you don't need to press+hold bluekey while typing a symbol
Apr 04 00:28:14 <RiD> double pressing it blocks it too
Apr 04 00:28:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Apr 04 00:28:27 <DocScrutinizer05> just like shift
Apr 04 00:28:29 <RiD> but then you have to click again to deactivate, and thats many additional clicks
Apr 04 00:29:00 <DocScrutinizer05> with awesome keymap it comes in handy for typing IP addr
Apr 04 00:29:11 <DocScrutinizer05> with default keymap it sucks
Apr 04 00:29:31 <RiD> let alone regional keymaps. you dont even have all the arrows
Apr 04 00:29:35 <robbiethe1st> Note: This only sometimes works in Web input fields. I find that on Slashdot, when the input box is created by JS, I can type into it, but lock-presses of shift/alt doesn't work. Tapping on the input field "selects" it and then the alt keys work as expected.
Apr 04 00:29:42 <robbiethe1st> Really confused me the first few times
Apr 04 00:30:18 <RiD> robbiethe1st i hate some of these sites where you type and it has a 6 second delay
Apr 04 00:30:18 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly qt shit
Apr 04 00:57:25 <eccerr0r> true, the sticky key works, I just wish there was visual feedback it was pressed, sometimes I hit it by mistake and the next button I press it produces the wrong character...
Apr 04 00:58:02 <RiD> eccerr0r great idea. using the led indicator could be nice
Apr 04 00:59:07 <eccerr0r> can that be done for both blue and shift?
Apr 04 00:59:30 <RiD> if its possible for one of them, why not the other one?
Apr 04 01:00:03 <eccerr0r> hmm.. oh the annunciator LED, thought you mean the keyboard backlight..
Apr 04 01:00:10 <RiD> oh 
Apr 04 01:00:17 <eccerr0r> yeah the annunciator LED would be fine
Apr 04 01:00:19 <RiD> keyboard backlight has 6 leds
Apr 04 01:00:29 <RiD> ...i think
Apr 04 01:01:01 <eccerr0r> the keyboard backlight is useless in bright light anyway :D
Apr 04 01:01:16 <RiD> haha indeed
Apr 04 01:01:23 <RiD> and it makes my keyboard damn ugly by the night
Apr 04 01:01:30 <RiD> (it's horribly worn off)
Apr 04 01:01:36 <RiD> annunciator led (w/e it is called) would be nice: yellow for shift and blue for blue key
Apr 04 01:01:36 <eccerr0r> ah.
Apr 04 01:25:49 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: note that the stickiness of fn is very toolkit-dependent
Apr 04 01:26:05 <kerio> it doesn't quite work in qt (which also doesn't like custom layouts), and it doesn't work at all, for instance, in fennec
Apr 04 01:32:01 <LokiChaos> is there some way to change the colors (16 basic ones) in osso-xterm w/o restorting to recompiling it?
Apr 04 01:44:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ((<RiD> eccerr0r great idea. using the led indicator could be nice)) well, I suggested exactly that over a year ago. alas it's not exactly simple to implement
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 04 02:59:58 2013