**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 06 02:59:58 2013 Apr 06 06:35:49 Hi guys, any idea how can i make my handset visible via Windows Networking ? Apr 06 06:36:08 Yes, basically i know Apr 06 06:36:31 I have to run winbind (nmbd) in addition to smbd Apr 06 06:36:56 But i'm using tinysmb, it's a bit different than standard samba Apr 06 06:37:07 Do i still have to run native nmbd ? Apr 06 06:43:59 DocScrutinizer05: Hi, you there ? Apr 06 06:44:20 Also, what do you think about power consumption of my device ? http://fpaste.org/aYsS/ Apr 06 06:44:27 Do i have to tune something extra ? Apr 06 07:04:24 XATRIX: is that powertop idle with the screen off and device locked? Apr 06 07:04:39 sixwheeledbeast: Yeap Apr 06 07:04:52 But 2.5G up and wifi connected Apr 06 07:06:17 Well too much C1 you should be looking for at least 90% C4 Apr 06 07:06:39 processes eating CPU in top? Apr 06 07:10:13 seems like none Apr 06 07:10:39 after i reboot it CPU: 2.1% usr 0.9% sys 0.0% nice 96.4% idle 0.3% io 0.0% irq 0.0% softirq Apr 06 07:10:50 1956 1309 user S 26132 11.0 0.0 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 1956 -n RTComMessagingServer Apr 06 07:10:54 11% cpu use Apr 06 07:10:59 1142 1032 user S 14476 6.1 0.5 /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu Apr 06 07:11:04 6.1% Apr 06 07:12:40 sixwheeledbeast: actually i don't think 90% of C4 is possible, cause in this state it should be 90% system halted Apr 06 07:12:46 It can't be possible Apr 06 07:13:15 a new one test http://fpaste.org/bcqh/ Apr 06 07:13:49 clean reboot, charging and Wifi + ssh Apr 06 07:14:12 This is about what most get including myself. Apr 06 07:14:22 I'll prove it ... mompls Apr 06 07:14:46 hm Apr 06 07:14:59 also i have SmartReflex enabled for now Apr 06 07:15:09 Nokia-N900:~# cat /sys/power/sr_vdd1_autocomp Apr 06 07:15:10 1 Apr 06 07:15:15 vdd2 is equal Apr 06 07:15:29 eh equal? Apr 06 07:15:44 vdd1=vdd2 = 1 Apr 06 07:15:55 both on 1? Apr 06 07:16:01 sr_vdd1_autocomp = sr_vdd2_autocomp Apr 06 07:16:02 yeap Apr 06 07:16:11 overclocking? Apr 06 07:16:15 no Apr 06 07:16:22 250-600? Apr 06 07:16:36 http://fpaste.org/bkh4/ Apr 06 07:16:47 default one, i changed only autocomp Apr 06 07:17:18 nothing more, no cpu 'scaling' software installed Apr 06 07:18:36 I just had 87% C4 on one device with 800 total wakes Apr 06 07:20:19 anything you advice me to tune ? Apr 06 07:21:08 kill process that's eating your sleep time. Apr 06 07:21:48 can you tell me which one ? Apr 06 07:21:55 and is it a good idea ? Apr 06 07:22:06 because it was a test after restart Apr 06 07:22:10 C4 is the best sleep C3 is ok in small amounts <=20% Apr 06 07:22:14 no web,no media Apr 06 07:23:24 for best results:- offline, wifi off, nothing running but the terminal and locked. Apr 06 07:23:43 then do three simples and use the best result Apr 06 07:24:43 hm Apr 06 07:25:00 how can i press enter during it's locked ? Apr 06 07:25:09 to issue powertop ? Apr 06 07:26:15 enter then lock screen you have 11 second before samples Apr 06 07:27:35 ahh Apr 06 07:27:39 crap, ok Apr 06 07:28:06 so , #powertop > ~/power.log ? Apr 06 07:30:48 if you want to print to file. Apr 06 07:33:04 yea Apr 06 07:34:14 http://pastebin.com/1SiTFAgU Apr 06 07:35:09 XATRIX: ^^^ pretty good example output Apr 06 07:41:17 damn.. you really have not bad results Apr 06 07:50:41 XATRIX: That's the sort of thing you need to aim for. Apr 06 07:51:05 yea, but i have no idea what should i actually hack in Apr 06 07:52:24 well it's all about working out what is stopping your device having a snooze. It will be a process/daemon/application/widget etc etc Apr 06 07:52:43 yea, ok...will make an experiment right now Apr 06 07:53:04 possibly even multiple offenders but you will notice Apr 06 07:53:33 if you can pastebin your pkg list I can possibly guess Apr 06 07:54:59 IIRC "maemo-list-user-packages" in a terminal? Apr 06 07:55:49 http://fpaste.org/nLry/ Apr 06 07:57:07 also, should i disconnect if from usb before starting powertop? Apr 06 07:57:48 sorry yes no charging, this will mess results up Apr 06 07:57:55 ok Apr 06 07:58:14 no radio, no charging, no active apps, Apr 06 07:58:17 and locked Apr 06 07:58:28 well packages I personally suspect of eating resource are:- Apr 06 07:58:30 ... Apr 06 08:01:54 qtlockscreeen, personal ip widget and maybe advanced power Apr 06 08:02:21 advanced power is for percentage monitoring in system tray Apr 06 08:02:32 + it tells me approx time to discharge Apr 06 08:02:35 battery monitoring eats CPU :) Apr 06 08:02:43 qtlockscreen maybe i have to kick it out Apr 06 08:03:03 but, the default one indicator does the checks also, so it also drains power ) Apr 06 08:03:15 doesn't make much sens ;) Apr 06 08:03:56 it works differently IIRC Apr 06 08:04:14 sure, but it also does queries to BME :) Apr 06 08:04:42 you can change the handling of the monitoring software, but the way it asks for data still the same :) Apr 06 08:04:55 also home ip Apr 06 08:05:17 mmm Apr 06 08:05:42 it's one of those widgets I used and removed Apr 06 08:05:45 yea , i agree, but i'd like to test powertop before, maybe it doesn't drain it so hard Apr 06 08:06:21 i need something to quickinform me about my current addr, cause it's hard for me, eveytime to unlock it , and "ip addr" it Apr 06 08:06:40 bare in mind I have tested a lot of apps and seen there fx Apr 06 08:07:27 yeap , maybe you have a better way to find out what ip do i currently have without home ip ? Apr 06 08:07:33 I have recently removed my QBW's to save power Apr 06 08:07:35 i have none :( Apr 06 08:07:40 QBW ? Apr 06 08:07:56 QBW will do it I used it after personal ip Apr 06 08:08:02 queen beecon wodget Apr 06 08:08:14 s/wodget/widget/ Apr 06 08:08:15 sixwheeledbeast meant: queen beecon widget Apr 06 08:08:16 i don't think i have some Apr 06 08:14:55 holy crap Apr 06 08:14:58 http://fpaste.org/dSq2/ Apr 06 08:15:36 rebooted device, locked, no wireless, only GSM, no sshd, a few widgets on a desktop Apr 06 08:15:53 mail informer, calendar events , home ip Apr 06 08:16:48 maybe i have to disable pulseaudio ? Apr 06 08:16:58 and make it use plain alsa ? Apr 06 08:18:13 now i turned on sshd, wifi, locked, and no extra software i started http://fpaste.org/h4pi/ Apr 06 08:18:41 seems like wireless doesn't let device to fall back to sleep state C4 Apr 06 08:19:09 that's really crap Apr 06 08:19:44 mobile hotspot? Apr 06 08:20:35 yea, it's a ad-hoc access point software Apr 06 08:20:45 i can NAT external connections Apr 06 08:21:03 usually i don't use it Apr 06 08:21:34 i am suggesting possible cause Apr 06 08:21:35 also, why does it tell me qtlockscreen installed as you remember ? http://fpaste.org/osYw/ Apr 06 08:21:54 mobile hostspot is not an autostart software Apr 06 08:22:03 this can happen Apr 06 08:22:30 also, i did bochs emulator installation via apt-get install Apr 06 08:22:42 i think it's a proper way to install software Apr 06 08:25:03 XATRIX: well you have pretty much proved it's an application ^ Apr 06 08:25:26 sorry, what do you mean ? Apr 06 08:26:34 sixwheeledbeast: and why does browserd eats a lot of cpu ? http://fpaste.org/pYnb/ Apr 06 08:26:47 but as long as i see it shouldn't , the state of the process is S Apr 06 08:26:57 Sleep mode, it's not [R]unning Apr 06 08:27:00 something must be causing issues when wifi is back on Apr 06 08:27:41 That's RAM not CPU! Apr 06 08:28:14 oh ssh that could be messing up powertop output. Apr 06 08:28:40 ah ,crap, sorry Apr 06 08:28:42 my falut Apr 06 08:29:36 also, that's the current data of my BME http://fpaste.org/daUz/ Apr 06 08:29:55 it's not the data of your BME Apr 06 08:54:51 hm, i'm also curious, why it does drain battery while i was talking to my friend with plugged in USB Apr 06 08:55:33 i think it should take power directly from the outlet, instead of battery, while it fully charged and charger plugged in Apr 06 08:58:30 hm...wtf ? it's discharging Apr 06 08:58:33 CSOC: 96 % RSOC: 96 % Apr 06 08:58:45 it was 97 percent... and charge indicator is green Apr 06 09:04:24 iirc it doesn Apr 06 09:04:33 't charge till its down to 92% Apr 06 09:06:58 hmm Apr 06 09:07:04 negative Apr 06 09:07:22 it starts to charge, even if you unlpug/plug charger Apr 06 09:08:16 ok guys, have to go now Apr 06 09:28:46 thedead1440: are you sure about the number? i thought it was 90 Apr 06 09:29:25 kerio: yeah could be that; not too sure it was around that range though Apr 06 10:08:28 Depends on load too Apr 06 10:10:01 it's a bq thing, right Apr 06 10:10:09 it's not software-controlled Apr 06 13:17:42 there are two charge cycle mechanisms: bq24150 resuming charging when a certain *voltage* threshold is tripped. And bme forcing bq24150 into charging every 2min or somesuch Apr 06 13:19:41 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_microcycle_log Apr 06 13:28:01 note that at least two charger chip (bq24150 and pcf50633) use same voltage threshold mechanism for battery maintenance at full Apr 06 13:31:35 since manufacturers most likely do diligent and extensive research how to design their battery charger chips before they invest millions $$ into production of a chip with fixed maskprogrammed algorithm, you should assume that this is the generally recommended best method to maintain LiIon cells Apr 06 13:31:41 DocScrutinizer05: does bq24k have a flag that says "charge has ended so now it's discharged but will recharge once we hit the threshold"? Apr 06 13:31:52 *discharging Apr 06 13:31:52 yes Apr 06 13:31:55 *not charging Apr 06 13:32:03 then why the F doesn't the bme replacement use it Apr 06 13:32:31 oh and also *start charging again Apr 06 13:33:10 there's a flag user can set to enable this auto-recharge Apr 06 13:34:05 VDQ is probably a good flag telling "it been fully charged and now is discharging" Apr 06 13:35:23 hmm, i suppose that you still have to know if the charger is connected Apr 06 13:35:42 any power-good flag will serve for "charger attached" - so this plus the aut-recharge-enable-flag will indicate that chip will resume charging once it hits the (amazingly even hardcoded) discharge threshold Apr 06 13:36:27 hmm.... i have a little collection of a few versions of that bq27200.sh script.. Could someone point me to the latest one? Apr 06 13:36:47 ~bq27k Apr 06 13:37:02 ~bq27k-detail Apr 06 13:37:02 i heard bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 Apr 06 13:37:09 i should probably make bq27k.py work without the sysnode too Apr 06 13:37:19 next to it is my version of bq27200.sh Apr 06 13:39:08 kerio: you probably should include a timer that does "kill $$" when that library is called faster than every 1.0 seconds Apr 06 13:40:12 but... i2cget lets me do it! Apr 06 14:04:19 xes: my reflow station finally arrived :-D Apr 06 14:05:02 DocScrutinizer05: :-) Nice to hear this! Apr 06 14:05:35 DocScrutinizer05: first impression? Apr 06 14:05:49 of course with a powercord that doesn't fit into EU outlets, and two adapeter plugs that don't fit to the powercord ;-P Apr 06 14:07:35 ..powercord...details ;-) Apr 06 14:07:52 apart from that, it seems a pretty nice device (though it started emitting smoke for a minute or so when I cranked it up to 450°C) Apr 06 14:08:26 If I was a anxious character, this would've scared me Apr 06 14:10:04 yep. First start needs to burn all the oil that protects the metal Apr 06 14:12:03 :nod: Apr 06 14:12:20 the nozzles are a bit flimsy Apr 06 14:12:42 particularly the bayonet lock Apr 06 14:13:01 but all in all a bargain for sure Apr 06 14:13:27 can't wait to find a SMD PCB to torture ;-) Apr 06 14:14:35 my first operation was to torture the latest hard drive that loosed my data... :-D Apr 06 14:15:02 do you have some hard drive to burn? ;-) Apr 06 14:16:33 at the end the pcb was completely empty. Then i started soldereding again some ic. A good training Apr 06 14:17:38 I'm planning something similar, but I have no defect HDD that I could spare for this Apr 06 14:18:19 I will find some other crap electronics for that pupose ;-D Apr 06 14:18:44 Where did you get this from? Apr 06 14:18:49 duh, I think I have some broken mice that I kept for spare parts :-D Apr 06 14:18:59 fleabay Apr 06 14:27:48 I picked a seller with "location of goods: " and then it turned out it's a german executive of a chinese seller, and that chinese seller told me they couldn't get the ATTEN858 "due to manufacturer claimed quality problems", and offered me a) another device for only 25EUR up; b) transfer back my paypal payment; c) wait a week until they sourced form elsewhere and sent the bulk shipment to Germany. I opted for c) Apr 06 14:31:06 one real complaint: the cable from station to tool is unbearable. I might eventually replace it with a flexible one, maybe even silicon isolation cable Apr 06 14:32:29 now I just wonder what nonsense I could do with that tool ;-D - maybe prepare some popcorn in a tin? Apr 06 14:34:52 or finally prepare my steak EE style? Fry the surface of the frozen steak with 450°C hot air, then gently heat it up in microwave til it has 58°C core temperature Apr 06 14:38:27 what mean burn hdd? Apr 06 14:39:00 electronics? Apr 06 14:40:35 DocScrutinizer05: 25€ looks big... Apr 06 14:48:00 Drathir: burn hdd -> unsolder all chips with ATTEN858 Apr 06 14:49:36 Drathir: for 25EUR up they'd offer me a station mit hot air and soldering iron, but no digital temperature control - not exactly what I wanted or needed. I got a decent high quality soldering station already Apr 06 14:50:30 For someone like me who is hopeless at soldering, temperature controlled iron is absolute must ;) Apr 06 15:00:09 proper electronic acid free flux is even more Apr 06 15:01:15 the most difficult detail in soldering? keep the two parts *absolutely* steady while solder cools down and "freezes" Apr 06 15:01:51 much the same as for epoxy glue Apr 06 15:02:09 just way more sensitive Apr 06 15:10:03 not as big an issue with tht and ptp ;-) Apr 06 15:10:29 60/40 is still allowed for hobbyists luckily Apr 06 15:22:51 tht? ptp? Apr 06 15:23:40 60/40 sure, *never* use Pb-free solder! Apr 06 15:24:20 Sn60Pb38Cu2 Apr 06 15:25:23 http://obamapacman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AOL-1996-vs.-Microsoft-Windows-8.jpg Apr 06 15:25:26 heh Apr 06 15:32:50 ShadowJK: also use a high quality solder wire with noclean flux core of good quality Apr 06 15:33:33 cheap noname solder wire is unbearable in that regard Apr 06 15:36:11 you most likely want to get additional flux for more delicate rework: http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/solder/fluxes/no-clean-flux-paste-8341/ for example Apr 06 15:39:02 I use edsyn FL88, quite convenient pen to apply flux Apr 06 15:44:01 http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1697741.pdf Apr 06 15:57:30 through-hole-tech and point-to-point ;-) Apr 06 15:57:39 *sigh* wiki VM "down" Apr 06 15:58:18 what's point-to-point ? Apr 06 15:58:52 no pcb, component soldered to eachother Apr 06 15:59:00 ooh Apr 06 15:59:20 the classical method, used in valve radios ;-D Apr 06 15:59:41 at least in very old ones Apr 06 16:00:59 Some TVs too Apr 06 16:30:06 GeneralAntilles: ping Apr 06 17:55:21 [general notice] repo is down due to VIF XEN bug. we need to reboot blade-a eventually Apr 06 18:01:27 DocScrutinizer05: But, what will I do without package updates for a few hours? How will I live? Apr 06 18:43:36 DocScrutinizer05, pong? Apr 06 18:43:57 GeneralAntilles: we need a report in next MWKN Apr 06 18:44:14 http://maemo.org/community/council/elections_announcement/ Apr 06 18:46:14 https://twitter.com/GeneralAntilles/status/320608368047820801 Apr 06 18:46:16 Noted. Apr 06 18:46:39 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4029.pdf Apr 06 18:46:45 argh. sorry. Apr 06 18:48:06 Macer: please don't get accustomed to that Apr 06 18:49:51 huh? Apr 06 18:50:16 Huh, I didn't know the IRC allowed for social security / medicare tax payment exemptions. Apr 06 18:50:27 i pasted that in teh wrong window Apr 06 18:50:49 MentalistTraceur: it probably does ;) Apr 06 18:50:55 start the churck of IRC heh Apr 06 18:55:27 Macer: (pasted to wrong window) second time in a row Apr 06 18:56:19 if your contributions stay at that level, it may earn you some restrictions in this chan Apr 06 18:57:27 since two similar "oops" in sequence smell like intentional spamming Apr 06 19:00:27 DocScrutinizer05: To be fair it's unlikely that intentional spamming would involve links to official US govm't tax forms. :) Apr 06 19:01:08 I'm not checking unsolicited random URLs posted in IRC, *ever* Apr 06 19:02:03 Fair enough. But just fyi irs.gov is United States' Internal Revenue Service's official government website. Apr 06 19:02:29 I rather stick to the rule of thumb that any URL posted without either additional context on what it's meant for, or a clear reference in URL itself that gives a clue in fact already *is* spam Apr 06 19:04:23 the "oops" and "argh. sorry. " in direct context to the URLs posted invalidated them for any checking whatsoever Apr 06 19:09:29 DocScrutinizer05: 2nd time in a row? Apr 06 19:09:45 *Shrug* My only point is that I think the label spam does not apply to accidental mistakes, and if you're going to label all such posts spam, especially without consideration of the URL involved (not necessarily open the URL, but consider what it looks like), then you're likely to punish people for innocent mistakes with measures that should be reserved for the intentionally spamming. Apr 06 19:11:24 DocScrutinizer05: i'd hop that the "oops" and "argh" did stop people from checking Apr 06 19:11:43 the point being that it was accidently posted... i would think that knockoff viagra would be a more obvious spam ;) Apr 06 19:12:27 speaking of which.... DocScrutinizer05 when you guys were moving your gear over you had a page that showed the people taht were helping you do it with the letters... i was wondering if you had that address again Apr 06 19:14:28 DocScrutinizer05, relax, man. Apr 06 19:14:46 I'm completely relaxed Apr 06 19:15:45 Macer: please rephrase, I dunno what page or letters or whataver you're talking about Apr 06 19:16:10 oh. when you were doing the move of maemo.org.. and it had the information about the move like the company hosting it etc Apr 06 19:16:44 http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure ?? Apr 06 19:17:11 awesome thanks Apr 06 19:17:16 np Apr 06 19:18:11 was the ownership of maemo.org ever determined? Apr 06 19:18:32 right now Nokia owns it still Apr 06 19:18:49 since HiFo seems unable to sign the contract Apr 06 19:19:21 Whenever HiFo Board gets around to holding a meeting, they can finally say "we officially approve this transfer contract". Apr 06 19:19:23 oh :-/ Apr 06 19:19:44 Bureaucracy at its finest. Apr 06 19:20:26 sigh Apr 06 19:20:50 or some particular member can come up with further "we need to discuss this" concerns Apr 06 19:33:36 this e7 cam sucks and my n900 is charging :-/ Apr 06 19:33:44 i need to take a close photo Apr 06 20:59:17 hello. I have a question - Has anyone successfully used a Logitech keyboard and mouse on the n900, by plugging in the unifying little thing with hostmode? Apr 06 20:59:40 http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2011/11/40e8ef787b1f4b9231ede61bcfed94c5.jpg | Android seems to support it natively Apr 06 20:59:46 so i guess there's no need for special drivers and all that? Apr 06 21:40:53 hi all Apr 06 21:41:41 just made an apt-get upgrade on my N900, new cssu kernel was installed, but no trace of the new kernel in the multiboot menu ... Apr 06 21:41:46 any idea ? Apr 06 21:43:44 RiD: for all I know the Logitech unifying series are capable to use normal bluetooth, so no need for any such stuff like hostmode or that dongle, just pair your mouse and kbd to the N900 bt Apr 06 21:44:27 (I could test that with my MX5500 kbd I have collecting dust here, if I had some time to do it...) Apr 06 21:49:28 wait what Apr 06 21:49:35 i was not aware of that Apr 06 21:51:28 "It is essentially proprietary bluetooth, that's been closed down in software, only pairing with Logitech devices. " Apr 06 21:51:29 hmm Apr 06 21:55:01 DocScrutinizer05 if you could do that, would you mind PMing me (RiD on forums) with the results? This if I'm not online here Apr 06 21:55:43 Hi , anything you can advice to run android apps in maemo ? Apr 06 21:55:57 Any emulators,wrappers whatever Apr 06 21:56:44 XATRIX: not that I know off Apr 06 21:56:52 :( Apr 06 21:57:07 and there are not even dalvik ports to linux Apr 06 21:57:14 (AFAIK) Apr 06 21:58:20 Hm... so i can't find anything dalvik's related ? Apr 06 21:59:30 there were some videos about that... but it was never published Apr 06 22:00:44 Yea , i saw one of it. But you mean, i can't find any software of it ? Apr 06 22:01:06 RiD: I already paired my MX5500 mouse and kbd to a regular lenovo laptop's BT Apr 06 22:01:20 iirc Apr 06 22:01:39 both Logitech? Apr 06 22:01:48 or a regular bluetooth keyboard Apr 06 22:04:14 Is it safe to install that packages ? http://fpaste.org/Yea4/ Apr 06 22:04:34 My hildon updater shows me no updates are currently needed Apr 06 22:04:41 But apt-get thinks different Apr 06 22:06:05 RiD: sorry, it seems I got mistaken - unifying receiver is _not_ meant to be BT Apr 06 22:06:47 ok. so only possible with OTG? Apr 06 22:08:08 http://www.logitech.com/en-us/support/cordless-desktop-mx-5500-revolution?crid=403 Apr 06 22:09:57 http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9343/related/1/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzY1Mjg2MTExL3NpZC9jU1FVdDNubA== Apr 06 22:10:13 >>A special version of the MX Revolution mouse included with the Cordless Desktop MX 5500 Revolution is a Bluetooth mouse and will connect to any system that has the appropriate Bluetooth software and hardware installed.<< Apr 06 22:10:33 i see Apr 06 22:10:44 i checked the support for what i want to buy and it doesn't mention bluetooth anywhere Apr 06 22:11:55 yeah, I thought my MX5500 BT support was a property of unifying, but obviously it's not, rather it seems it's a special property of MX5500 not related to unifying Apr 06 22:13:31 http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9492/related/1 Apr 06 22:15:08 http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/list/kw/can unifying use bluetooth Apr 06 22:16:31 DocScrutinizer05: Is it safe to install that packages ? http://fpaste.org/Yea4/ Apr 06 22:28:16 RiD: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Mice-and-Pointing-Devices/Unifying-versus-Bluetooth/m-p/917274/highlight/true#M43516 Apr 06 22:28:23 might be interesting Apr 06 22:29:36 XATRIX: apt-get upgrade is deprecated Apr 06 22:29:46 hm Apr 06 22:30:03 but i still can install software with apt-get install\ Apr 06 22:30:10 sure Apr 06 22:30:30 and you'll maybe notice when it introduces problems Apr 06 22:31:20 with upgrade you more likely will install pkgs(-versions) that cause problems, and less likely you'll notice which pkg it been that gives you trouble Apr 06 22:31:35 but how can i install software not using hildon-crappy-package manager ? Apr 06 22:35:51 XATRIX: You can still use apt-get directly, the point is it's not recommended to run 'apt-get upgrade' specifically. Apr 06 22:36:31 ok, thanks for the advice Apr 06 22:36:52 'apt-get upgrade' blindly grabs all latest versions of packages. Which, depending on what repositories you have enabled, can mess things up. Apr 06 22:40:07 You could for example run "apt-get -s upgrade" (the -s tells apt-get to 'simulate' what it will try to do without actually doing it), see what packages it would thus try to install, and then install the packages out of that list that you actually installed/use yourself. Those will in turn pull any upgraded library/dependency packages, up to the version they need. Apr 06 22:40:43 XATRIX: for indiscriminate upgrade you'll have to stick to HAM, since only HAM knows about package groups Apr 06 22:41:53 ok, but is there any way to speed it up ? it's slow as hell Apr 06 22:41:58 for HAMless updating/upgrading listen to MentalistTraceur Apr 06 22:43:12 there are several updated system lib versions and similar stuff, that would break things but nevertheless apt-get upgrade would import/upgrade them Apr 06 22:43:51 for example in your pastebin: Apr 06 22:43:54 Reading state information... Done Apr 06 22:43:56 The following packages have been kept back: Apr 06 22:43:58 libgcc1 libsdl-mixer1.2 libstdc++6 Apr 06 22:44:27 is just luck since libstdc++6 very likely already would mess up your whole system fubar Apr 06 22:45:01 Yes, that's why i didn't press Y Apr 06 22:45:05 for >>file libmagic1 python-hildondesktop<< I wouldn't bet on the latter 2 to be safe either Apr 06 22:45:26 XATRIX: There's also Faster Application Manager, which works WAY faster than HAM. Apr 06 22:46:36 Ok,i'm gonna try it , apt-get install fapman Apr 06 22:48:25 DocScrutinizer05> XATRIX: for indiscriminate upgrade you'll have to stick to HAM, since only HAM knows about package groups Apr 06 22:48:37 Yep. Honestly, when I have to reflash my N900 and set it up from scratch, FApMan is one the first things I download. Apr 06 22:48:38 has there been any plans on giving this functionality to n900's dpkg? Apr 06 22:48:51 Then I never touch HAM again. Apr 06 22:49:05 HAM is fast Apr 06 22:49:10 fapman sooner or later borks n900 as it for some reason issues autoremove in some cirumstances.. at least that's what I''ve heard Apr 06 22:49:11 as long as you don't have any repos enabled on it Apr 06 22:49:19 FIQ "XATRIX: You can still use apt-get directly" Apr 06 22:49:36 HAM is just a frontend to apt-get Apr 06 22:49:37 XATRIX: yes, but enabling the possibility to use upgrade w/o breaking stuff I mean Apr 06 22:49:41 As long as i know Apr 06 22:49:54 *I've Apr 06 22:49:55 Ok, will use HAM Apr 06 22:49:57 XATRIX but it constantly updates the list everytime you install one application Apr 06 22:50:11 ~hma Apr 06 22:50:12 somebody said hma was high memory area Apr 06 22:50:13 ~ham Apr 06 22:50:14 rumour has it, ham is Hildon Application Manager. Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does Apr 06 22:50:43 RiD: Depends on how many repos you have enabled. I develop on my N900, and in general there's some packages I need form the Nokia SDK repos. Apr 06 22:50:50 s/form/from/ Apr 06 22:50:50 MentalistTraceur meant: RiD: Depends on how many repos you have enabled. I develop on my N900, and in general there's some packages I need from the Nokia SDK repos. Apr 06 22:51:43 Also, why my handset can't get into C4 if i have Wifi enabled ? No other software is engaged Apr 06 22:51:52 Most time it does C2 Apr 06 22:52:13 FIQ: I've never had my system destabilized by FApMan, so I'm not sure about that being the case, either in the current version or otherwise. Apr 06 22:52:44 I haven't have any problems with it either Apr 06 22:52:46 from what i remember, I never had any issue with fapman either Apr 07 01:15:25 (( HAM is just a frontend to apt-get )) no, fapman is just a frontend to apt-get, HAM is a bit more than that Apr 07 01:17:57 (( Also, why my handset can't get into C4 if i have Wifi enabled ?)) maybe your AP doesn't support proper powersavingsmode, or you got shitloads of broadcast in your LAN Apr 07 01:19:21 well, you all might never have had problems with fapman, but that's by mere luck then. fapman is *known* to sooner or later fuckup ypur system Apr 07 01:20:21 and honestly we found it's simply not suited for e.g. CSSU, and we don't support it and strongly deprecate using it for CSSU Apr 07 01:22:14 for all I know fapman is a braindead GUi frontend to apt-get, unlike HAM which knows about package groups, abouts system packages, about not doing autoremove... Apr 07 01:28:06 DocScrutinizer05: how long didnt you looked at fapman? Apr 07 01:28:45 so far i know fapman cares about all nokiaisms and works well Apr 07 01:29:01 uhuh Apr 07 01:29:53 it has package groups, it manages autoremove if you tell it, it hides system packages and applies the nokia fairy dust over apt Apr 07 01:30:04 I honestly don't feel like touching crap that made me puke and reflash during 30min after initial installation, and ever since reports of users messing up their system with it never stopped to come in Apr 07 01:30:29 well, fapman works for me since long time now Apr 07 01:30:42 i admit the very first releases years ago where crap Apr 07 01:31:03 let me put it this way: it had it's chance Apr 07 01:31:19 HAM is opesource Apr 07 01:31:37 yes but its utterly slow and unintuitive Apr 07 01:32:06 slow because synchronize apps... Apr 07 01:32:24 I won't bother about a reinvention of the wheel instead of fixing what's already there. Particularly when that wheel wasn't a wheel but a sledgehammer falling on my foot when I first time touched it Apr 07 01:32:25 imagine maemo would have taken off and we now had 50000 packages in the repo .. one would be unable to handles that with ham Apr 07 01:33:04 so what? Apr 07 01:33:18 arguable the best would be if nokia hadnt broken apt at first .. just using normal tools, maybe contribute changes to upstream debian, no optification and so on .. but well :) Apr 07 01:33:45 allow fools to write cheap broken GUI wrappers around apt-get since they are not capable to understand how to fix slowness in HAM? Apr 07 01:34:13 i never looked at ham's source .. dunno Apr 07 01:34:36 fapman can get all the love you can find, it still is a waste of time since HAM already been there and done that Apr 07 01:34:50 i using apt also but ham is more secure in use... Apr 07 01:35:40 so, in my book fapman is pathetic, and got invented due to lack of competence of the developers Apr 07 01:36:16 if same amount of work had been invested into HAM, we had something *really* usable today Apr 07 01:36:39 was ham free software back when the first fapman came out? i dunno Apr 07 01:36:46 also ham can be slow becouse cacheing the thumb of apps... Apr 07 01:36:55 and a few hundered users less who came here and had to get talked thru reflash since fapman borked their system Apr 07 01:36:59 because* Apr 07 01:37:00 HAM's ui is horrible Apr 07 01:37:38 you cant batch things together and then run the installation, you have no sorting/filtering besides groups and so on Apr 07 01:37:40 ui is ok clean but refresh performance is little slow... Apr 07 01:37:43 i really cant stand it Apr 07 01:38:26 if you want to install 10 packages you have to pay attention to the device for 30+ minutes or whatever.. Apr 07 01:38:51 nobody sane wants to install 10 packages at a time Apr 07 01:39:00 search, select .. wait .. ack security question, wait again .. Apr 07 01:39:18 what a reason .. i sometimes did that Apr 07 01:39:20 you're supposed to install one, then check if anything gone south and you maybe want to uninstall it again Apr 07 01:39:44 I need flasher 3.5 and image for N810WE (linux deb), the links on the wiki are broken because they still go to nokia. Apr 07 01:40:02 ~skeiron Apr 07 01:40:02 [skeiron] the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Apr 07 01:40:03 my N810 is stuck at Nokia logo so it needs to be reflashed =( Apr 07 01:40:11 ah Apr 07 01:40:13 awesome Apr 07 01:40:18 thanks Doc Apr 07 01:40:22 yw Apr 07 01:44:58 i got my N810WE bin but i dont see a link for flasher 3.5 is flasher3.0-amd64 the one i should use instead? (i am on linux 64b btw) Apr 07 01:45:16 or am i just wrong in thinking there was a 3.5? Apr 07 01:49:01 ok no, im not wrong in that. i found flasher 3.5 but again no working link for it. =P Apr 07 01:51:52 wulfe: stuck with no reason? Apr 07 01:51:56 aha found it Apr 07 01:52:20 nevermind now, it was under a different section then i expected on skeirons site Apr 07 01:53:11 infobot: flaher Apr 07 01:53:12 yeah its just stuck at boot up on nokia logo Apr 07 01:53:29 infobot: ~flaher Apr 07 01:53:39 flasher* Apr 07 01:53:57 infobot: ~flasher Apr 07 01:54:32 3:54 GMT+1 Apr 07 01:54:36 :p Apr 07 01:55:47 ~flasher Apr 07 01:55:47 hmm... flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher Apr 07 01:56:46 or i dont like time change that showing now GMT+2 if not wrong :/ Apr 07 01:57:10 DocScrutinizer05: infobot dont like direct messages? :/ Apr 07 01:57:26 botsnack Apr 07 01:58:05 if infobot would answer to every nonsense that's not addressed to her, this channel would get pretty noisy Apr 07 01:58:15 infobot: botsnack Apr 07 01:58:15 :), DocScrutinizer05 Apr 07 01:58:43 ~botsnack Apr 07 01:58:44 aw, gee, DocScrutinizer05 Apr 07 01:58:51 infobot: ~botsnack Apr 07 01:58:51 DocScrutinizer05: thanks Apr 07 01:59:19 DocScrutinizer05: like you^^ Apr 07 01:59:36 bot ofc **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 07 02:59:58 2013