**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 28 02:59:58 2013 Apr 28 03:58:13 thanks a lot again xes, kerio and DocScrutinizer05 :) Apr 28 03:58:38 it's booting again, seems it was just a broken uboot config Apr 28 04:00:07 odd enough though, as I had run the u-boot-update-bootmenu command even once manually to be sure before rebooting Apr 28 04:16:55 hardfalcon: u-boot-update-bootmenu is a clumsy concept Apr 28 04:18:13 it's not worse than grub Apr 28 04:19:17 the coolest thing would probably be yslinux for n900 Apr 28 04:19:26 *syslinux/extlinux Apr 28 04:19:34 but that's most probably never gonna happen Apr 28 04:20:49 hardfalcon: bootmenu is a consept that's vastly unrelated to what uboot does, yet uboot config tries to exploit the bootmenu config to base own config on that Apr 28 04:21:29 yes I know Apr 28 04:21:35 it's kinda like basing grub config on upstart config Apr 28 04:22:14 well I've never used upstart Apr 28 04:23:01 well, then s/upstart/sysv-init/ Apr 28 04:23:11 I've been happy with syslinux and archlinux since quite a few years now, so no need to try out that ubuntu stuff :) Apr 28 04:23:27 but yeah, I see what you mean Apr 28 04:28:04 we urgently need midgard specialists for maemo techstaff Apr 28 04:29:44 midgard? Apr 28 04:30:25 CMS which maemo.org is based on Apr 28 04:31:01 see footer on http://maemo.org Apr 28 04:31:08 that thing looks scary Apr 28 04:31:14 Powered by Midgard CMS Apr 28 04:31:18 indeed, it is Apr 28 04:32:09 btw, is there some specific reason why they didn't go to sourceforge to get servers for maemo.org? Apr 28 04:33:53 hm? Apr 28 04:35:11 maybe you wanna have a look at http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure Apr 28 04:35:48 gives a bit of insight into what maemo.org actually comprises Apr 28 04:36:22 I hadn't been in the forums for a few months and I was quite amazed when I saw the fundraising stuff when I visited the site for the first time after my absence Apr 28 04:37:39 well, running our own hardware at a colocation for free felt better than getting some limited-control vservers somewhere Apr 28 04:38:28 that's certainly true, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to have some sort of fallback Apr 28 04:38:33 even osuosl strongly recommends or rather demands that any hosted project uses their central md server rather than running their own db Apr 28 04:39:03 sourceforce wouldn't probably be able to host maemo at all Apr 28 04:39:33 since it's neither a simple lamp webserver, nor a simple git repository Apr 28 04:40:04 rather it's all that at once, plus 90% weird stuff on top Apr 28 04:40:53 I guess maemo.org will have to migrate onto a less weird platform sometime Apr 28 04:41:21 haha, good luck Apr 28 04:41:38 from my perspective, the most important thing are mirrors for the packages Apr 28 04:42:00 that stuff grew organically during almost 10 years, by the work of lots of volunteers Apr 28 04:42:30 mirrors? hah! Apr 28 04:42:45 we have mirrors like others have dirt under their fingernails Apr 28 04:42:49 ~mirror Apr 28 04:42:50 i heard mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new Apr 28 04:42:53 more or less all of the rest could be substituted if the infrastructure needed would become too costly Apr 28 04:42:58 ~skeiron Apr 28 04:42:58 from memory, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 Apr 28 04:43:31 yeah, I've seen skeiron Apr 28 04:43:44 well, substituate autobuilder. We're open to honest suggestions Apr 28 04:45:09 there actually been efforts to migrate from autobuilder to cobs Apr 28 04:45:34 but they stalled when Nokia stopped support (i.e. stopped paying the devels) Apr 28 04:45:37 well, I don't have any experience managing a whole linux distro, but I could well imagine that if there isn't any more money for an autobuilder server, the package maintainers would have to build the packages on their own machines and upload both the source tarballs and the binary packages onto some central fileserver (which could server as source for mirror servers) Apr 28 04:46:31 we won't do that, since then everybody is free to inject whatever malware he likes into official repos Apr 28 04:47:27 a dream for virus coders, their malware gets delivered genuinely instead of finding its way through vulnerabilities Apr 28 04:47:59 hmmm, and you think that somebody would notice in time if there was a breach on the autobuilder server? Apr 28 04:48:17 yes Apr 28 04:48:46 that's what maemo-testing repo is all about Apr 28 04:49:08 at archlinux, they have trusted package maintainers, who build their own binary packages and sign them Apr 28 04:49:23 *shrug* Apr 28 04:49:25 so do we Apr 28 04:49:48 and the keyring used by the package manager is a package that is signed by the core devs Apr 28 04:50:17 sorry, that's not exactly new info to me Apr 28 04:51:25 I don't know which of the 2 models should be considered more secure Apr 28 04:51:33 hardfalcon: having all packages distributed on RMO built and signed by the autobuilder machine is simply playing it safe Apr 28 04:52:34 ad-hoc packaging with only trusted maintainers getting on the server is an option, but not having an autobuilder means we can't do fancy things like rebuild everything for GCC 4.7/Thumb-2 (when the time comes) easily Apr 28 04:52:39 with an autobuild host, you have a single point of failure IMHO Apr 28 04:54:17 and how does that differ form rmo as a single point of failure? Apr 28 04:54:42 and what does it suggest? Apr 28 04:55:51 with a power plant you also have a single point of failure for electric power. Does that mean we should get rid of power plants? sure we should, if somebody could invent the wireless eternally powered modible power outlet Apr 28 04:56:28 s/modible/mobile/ Apr 28 04:56:28 DocScrutinizer05 meant: with a power plant you also have a single point of failure for electric power. Does that mean we should get rid of power plants? sure we should, if somebody could invent the wireless eternally powered mobile power outlet Apr 28 04:57:01 as I said, I'm certainly not an expert on that field, but to me, a buildhost where people can upload things like makescripts, configure scripts etc, that will be executed, and which signs your packages automagically, sounds like a conceptional weakness Apr 28 04:57:21 it isn't Apr 28 04:58:54 devel upload their sourcecode to extras-devel, and autobuilder generates a binary that matches the sourcecode. Eventually they promote their package to extras-testing where both source and binary are supposed to get tested thoroughly Apr 28 04:59:08 only then the package can promote to extras Apr 28 05:00:53 so in extras repo you got binaries that are definitely in sync with their sourcecode, and seen thorough testing for rogue functions, hidden malware, mistakes in coding that were without malicious intent but still would affect system stability, a.s.o Apr 28 05:02:17 that's maemo security concept and you can't replace that by trusted devels building their binaries locally and then sharing them by whatever means Apr 28 05:03:13 well if packages must be validated by the dev before they are moved into extras-devel, then looks good to me Apr 28 05:03:46 only registered devels can upload to extras-devel Apr 28 05:04:44 registration for garage developer with upload rights is a manual process that ensures that only known and honoured community members get access Apr 28 05:06:02 yes, that's similar to archlinux, there you also have to earn your way to become package maintainer Apr 28 05:06:32 the security check for that registartion isn't really a tough one, but it suffices since we got our security built around other measures than trust Apr 28 05:06:32 as a "normal" user, you can only put PKGBUILD scripts into the AUR Apr 28 05:06:49 some just want to verify the binaries published vs. one built by yourself. Apr 28 05:07:23 the autobuilder's software and hardware configuration is known, which should make it possible to verify the output if you're paranoid enough. Apr 28 05:08:42 and rarely, magic voodoo with differing toolchains may prevent binaries in a system from working together properly. Apr 28 05:09:27 that's yet another good point why central building is needed Apr 28 05:12:29 see cssu where we're not using autobuilder which only works since we are few maintainers&devels, and yet already there we seen months of syystem with broken modest, since the devel accidentally built modest package with thumb enabled on his local machine Apr 28 05:12:45 which made it segfault like mad Apr 28 05:13:36 yes, I clearly see the practical advantages Apr 28 05:13:53 one line in one config file of that devel's local scratchbox SDK been incorrect, and it took months to spot that Apr 28 06:22:36 ~botsnack Apr 28 06:22:36 DocScrutinizer05: :) Apr 28 07:11:16 hardfalcon: i trust the autobuilder a lot more than the security of /all/ the computers of the people who are "allowed to build" Apr 28 07:42:57 and in fact, the sooner we get the cssu repos under the autobuilder, the better Apr 28 07:45:12 :nod: Apr 28 07:45:55 i trust merlin1991's conscience wholeheartedly, but i don't necessarily trust his computer's security :3 Apr 28 07:45:56 just for now we have severe problems with midgard Apr 28 07:48:14 and it seems we have even less midgard experts to fix those issues than we have autobuilder savvy individuals Apr 28 07:50:02 get HiFo to pay nemein to fix it? Apr 28 07:51:57 I already pondered it Apr 28 07:52:49 where nemein==bergie, basically Apr 28 07:53:46 I'm just waiting to discuss it with a few others, and of course with bergie ;-) Apr 28 07:54:11 even better, pay nemein to migrate to a good CMS Apr 28 07:54:18 :D Apr 28 07:54:19 LOL Apr 28 07:54:28 with you as sponsor? Apr 28 07:54:53 i'm prepared to donate at least tens of euros Apr 28 07:55:33 also i'd rather give that order to a company that is expert of the migration target, not of migration source Apr 28 07:57:11 kerio: for a ballpark figure: *maintenance* of maemo.org by nemein is ~2200EUR/month Apr 28 07:57:41 iirc Apr 28 07:58:17 lol Apr 28 07:58:28 maintenance does _not_ include a major migartion Apr 28 07:58:45 lol? that's actually a fair offer Apr 28 07:59:50 see fundraiser thread, post #1 Apr 28 08:00:45 basic system maintenance: 2200€ - my memory been correct Apr 28 08:01:42 >>[update] We finally got a quote for our current infra (VM on xen-grid, basic system maintenance): 1300EUR+2200EUR/month (+VAT). Of course we're trying to do further consolidation and search for alternatives like volunteers for sysops. Just a sidenote to let you know where we are right now and that we didn't exaggerate to the higher values with that initial ballpark figure of needed amount per month.<< Apr 28 08:03:20 number of users in midgard: 10 Apr 28 08:03:46 half of them desperate lurkers Apr 28 08:03:53 fun Apr 28 08:03:59 other half: basically nemein Apr 28 08:04:35 and that's midgard's *official* IRC channel Apr 28 08:07:12 compare users on irc with http://nemein.com/en/people/ Apr 28 08:11:44 bergie, mashiara, aslan, piotr, niels (ex?): all nemein employees (or boss ;-D) Apr 28 08:12:23 ab, newa: unclear Apr 28 08:13:06 me, jcki, woody: maemo Apr 28 08:14:11 http://nemein.com/en/solutions/ Apr 28 08:14:45 sounds better than "Midgard is an open source CMS that has been developed in 1999" Apr 28 08:15:55 http://nemein.com/en/solutions/midgard_cms/ Apr 28 08:18:29 http://nemein.com/en/clients/maemo-org/ Apr 28 08:19:36 >> Nemein has built the maemo.org developers website and maintain and develop it further on.<< hmmmmm Apr 28 08:20:15 I'm pondering to call bergie out on that Apr 28 08:20:20 hehe Apr 28 08:22:39 maybe just place that link http://nemein.com/en/clients/maemo-org/ on maemo's footer, instead of that URL that's now under "powered by midgard"? Apr 28 08:44:18 gr, bloody crackly phone line. Having intermittent inet connection is more annoying than non at all. :( Apr 28 08:46:58 indeed Apr 28 08:47:13 and moinmoin Apr 28 09:42:56 DocScrutinizer05: I recommend you to talk to Bergie definitely. Apr 28 09:52:13 ab: yes, probably Apr 28 09:59:25 ab: actually, would you know about repligard db, and about permissions resp available functions in midgard toolbar for particular objects? Apr 28 10:14:13 that seems to have sorted it. Apr 28 10:15:34 <<10:45 DocScrutinizer05: just for now we have severe problems with midgard>> I guess this is why m.o login is not working? Apr 28 10:15:58 yep Apr 28 10:16:27 it's not "not working", it got disabled Apr 28 10:16:39 linked with what happens on tue night/wed morning GMT Apr 28 10:16:42 since other stuff is not working Apr 28 10:16:47 yep Apr 28 10:16:52 s/happens/happened Apr 28 10:17:57 so if a solution to that page is found, m.o login can be reinstated Apr 28 10:18:20 basically yes Apr 28 11:40:21 Af'noon, all Apr 28 11:40:46 Just reflashed my N9 (just rootfs, not eMMC) but writing to /home gives 'no space left on device'. df shows it's only half full. Any ideas? Apr 28 11:42:19 hi Jaffa Apr 28 11:43:47 hi DocScrutinizer05 Apr 28 11:43:53 Jaffa: do you by any chance recall the issue reported in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59830 ? Apr 28 11:44:52 it's kinda strange how the thread is stalling as a cliffhanger Apr 28 11:47:53 * Jaffa remembers. Apr 28 11:49:08 do you also remeber what been the actual final conclusions from all that? Apr 28 11:49:37 what got fixed, or what been the verdict on it? Apr 28 11:49:38 I don't think there were any Apr 28 11:50:04 oh, so they shrugged it away? Apr 28 11:51:18 sounds kinda odd Apr 28 11:51:47 Only ever reported by one guy who didn't raise a bug report and didn't provide any useful info. Apr 28 11:51:55 I doubt bergie et al even saw the thread Apr 28 11:52:07 but actually maybe they did, since we see same bug today still Apr 28 11:52:17 You do? Apr 28 11:52:19 mashiara/Eero seen it Apr 28 12:08:07 Jaffa: yes we do. See pali's reports of a few days ago Apr 28 12:11:22 Jaffa, DocScrutinizer05: that screen on TMO tread show same security bug which I discovered days ago Apr 28 12:11:31 so that bug is there for a long time... Apr 28 12:11:49 thread was created 6th Aug 2010 , 04:06 Apr 28 12:15:55 Pali: yes, I know Apr 28 12:16:40 DocScrutinizer05, so in last *3* years somebody was able to totally damage maemo.org package database Apr 28 12:16:53 that's not confirmed Apr 28 12:17:02 Jaffa: what does mount tell you? Apr 28 12:17:03 Jaffa: I've had it after a rootfs reflash /home wasn't mouted anymore Apr 28 12:17:17 and we don't discuss detailed problem here Apr 28 12:17:21 mkfs ... on the devicenode, a reboot and everything was fine again Apr 28 12:54:11 what new? Apr 28 14:42:04 Are there dual sim adapters for n900 which are inside it? Apr 28 14:42:39 Some threads say they are all scams, some say there is software to switch, but then you still need some device (which nobody mentions) to do the actual switching. Apr 28 14:55:56 fasta_: have you read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85722 Apr 28 14:59:53 last sim switcher I had corrupted all the data on both sims, avoided since then. Apr 28 15:06:24 magicsim 28th has been reported to work Apr 28 15:06:39 but there have also been report that magicsim 26th doesn't work Apr 28 15:07:11 gotta admit though that I've never had a sim switcher myself so I don't have any personal experiences with them Apr 28 15:07:21 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=998362 Apr 28 15:29:58 fasta_: those devices in most cases require you to turn your phone off and on Apr 28 15:30:42 I think it depends on if 007 mode compatible? Apr 28 15:43:11 sixwheeledbeast: yes, that's what got me interested in the dual sim possibility. Apr 28 15:43:26 sixwheeledbeast: but he should have listed a bunch of known to work devices in the OP. Apr 28 15:43:56 Does a sim switcher imply that you cannot use both at the same time? Apr 28 15:44:02 I agreed was going to bump and ask if he could do a wiki page for his app. Apr 28 15:44:09 s/agredd/agree/ Apr 28 15:44:33 Also, how can I get my n900 to work like in the commercials for Maemo? Apr 28 15:44:43 In the commercials everything is smooth and fast. Apr 28 15:44:52 lol Apr 28 15:45:01 I think there are laws against practices like this now. Apr 28 15:45:16 "sequences shortened" Apr 28 15:45:25 sixwheeledbeast: more like sped up. Apr 28 15:45:41 you on thumb? Apr 28 15:45:54 sixwheeledbeast: I'd say it's at least 5 times slower in the real world. Apr 28 15:45:57 sixwheeledbeast: thumb? Apr 28 15:46:10 CSSU-thumb Apr 28 15:46:18 Swap on SD? Apr 28 15:46:24 Swappolube? Apr 28 15:46:32 sixwheeledbeast: I think I am Stable. Apr 28 15:46:48 sixwheeledbeast: I can see swap being used, yes. Apr 28 15:47:26 fasta_, you're stable, that mean you are not a serial killer ? Apr 28 15:47:40 sardini: on Stable. Apr 28 15:47:45 eh.. do you have swap on uSD card or device (default) Apr 28 15:48:04 sixwheeledbeast: likely default. Apr 28 15:48:17 you would know if you had Apr 28 15:48:17 sixwheeledbeast: e probably doesn't, otherwise he'd know Apr 28 15:48:22 *he Apr 28 15:48:26 i know. Apr 28 15:48:39 sixwheeledbeast: I can ssh into my phone, so I can easily run commands. Apr 28 15:48:49 also widgets are a big killer in maemo Apr 28 15:49:39 if you have a fresh device with no dodgy software all is quick and crisp like the ads Apr 28 15:51:47 Except opening youtube Apr 28 15:53:15 well that was youtube back in the day on flash 9 Apr 28 15:53:32 true :) Apr 28 15:54:12 all workarounds for flash on microb now Apr 28 15:54:32 roll on html5 browser Apr 28 15:55:42 What does skyhost do? Apr 28 15:56:08 I also don't get why I have 3 camera-ui programs running. Apr 28 15:56:23 Or 4 thumbnailerd. Apr 28 15:56:33 sykyhost = skype p2p thing Apr 28 15:56:40 It seems lots of duplicates are running. Apr 28 15:57:16 and you wonder why it's being slow... Apr 28 15:57:33 sixwheeledbeast: these are things that should never happen in the first place. Apr 28 15:57:50 sixwheeledbeast: don't blame someone elses' fault on me. Apr 28 15:58:06 I am not blaming anyone. Apr 28 15:58:06 sixwheeledbeast: instead suggest ways to fix the problem. Apr 28 15:58:08 There's 2 for most things, a launcher/booster and app itself. Basically gtk and other libraries get initialized once, so that the state of the memory can be shared with other apps Apr 28 15:58:28 I have 8 browserd. Apr 28 15:58:41 4 hildon-desktop. Apr 28 15:58:51 Likely one for each desktop. Apr 28 15:59:05 there shouldn't be Apr 28 15:59:19 2 hildon-desktop, 3 browserd, and 2 browser on mine Apr 28 15:59:35 3 browserd, 2 browser Apr 28 16:00:01 one parent browserd, web surf browserd, conversations browserd Apr 28 16:00:17 ShadowJK: and how much swap are you using? 0? Apr 28 16:00:22 browser launch/booster, main browser Apr 28 16:00:27 I am using 285MB swap now. Apr 28 16:00:41 (which is likely the main cause of slowness) Apr 28 16:00:50 150M right now, reading news and have two rows of windows open :) Apr 28 16:01:07 I am not even using all the main memory :/ Apr 28 16:01:17 There is over 70MB free. Apr 28 16:01:34 2 modest, 375MB into swap (ouch) Apr 28 16:01:42 whoops Apr 28 16:01:49 wrong number, 149MB actually Apr 28 16:01:49 * ShadowJK has 2 gig swapfile on uSD Apr 28 16:02:03 it makes swap fragmentation onset take longer Apr 28 16:02:06 it's not the amount of swap more the amount of times swap is written Apr 28 16:02:16 ShadowJK: are there any instructions to configure that? Apr 28 16:02:22 swap defrag Apr 28 16:02:24 for some reason it won't let me use a swapfile on microsd (fatfs)... Apr 28 16:02:44 swap on fat is broken with stock kernel Apr 28 16:02:57 I should've said swap partition :) Apr 28 16:03:09 wasn't fixed on pk? Apr 28 16:04:13 might be, I havent tested Apr 28 16:04:58 have to repartition my microsd card, would be nice to use swap on that instead. Apr 28 16:05:21 Are swap _files_ also supported? Apr 28 16:05:32 (The Linux kernel supports those since forever) Apr 28 16:06:03 last time i tried, it, forgot if it was on pk or stock, but it livelocked when I tried swapon Apr 28 16:06:15 the stock version happened to have a big with swap on vfat Apr 28 16:06:28 also "filefrag" on vfat doesn't work Apr 28 16:06:34 (same codepath) Apr 28 16:07:18 ecc3g: had the same on KP50 Apr 28 16:08:00 i guess it's worth it to try it on powerkernel52 now... but I have a feeling it was not fixed. Apr 28 16:09:04 I don't see the issue with swap partition on uSD, or my preferred two swaps :) Apr 28 16:09:37 and probably swap on swapfile on ext3 might work too... Apr 28 16:10:00 just too lazy to repartition the microsd :o Apr 28 16:10:26 takes minutes on a desktop with gparted Apr 28 16:11:07 still too lazy (plus I'd have to figure out how to make it auto swapoff when the back cover is removed...) Apr 28 16:11:35 flopswap :) Apr 28 16:15:18 plus I really should use the microsd... class 10 microsd is probably faster at swapping than the emmc? Apr 28 16:16:10 Depends Apr 28 16:17:03 The swap algorithm in maemo kernel (different from mainline kernels) is optimized for SD, but works best when nothing else accesses the device Apr 28 16:17:41 Which is why I use uSD swap, because very little uses the uSD Apr 28 16:18:35 Also flash wear issue, but that's only a worry if you plan to be using N900 in decades to come. Apr 28 16:18:48 The modem dies faster :) Apr 28 16:18:54 and microusb.. Apr 28 16:19:00 so it seems Apr 28 16:19:10 ~hammertime Apr 28 16:19:11 * infobot beats up erstazi Apr 28 16:22:18 anyone successfully re-flowed an N900 mobo yet? Apr 28 16:56:41 DocScrutinizer05: https://garage.maemo.org not working, SSL certificate expired 25.04.2013 01:59 Apr 28 17:07:36 fun Apr 28 18:02:35 Is there some command to move all swap to RAM again? Apr 28 18:05:20 Why don't they just release an n900 with quadcore CPU and 4GB RAM? Apr 28 18:05:42 Well, and a camera from the Lumia. Apr 28 18:07:39 swapoff Apr 28 18:07:51 because not many people will buy it Apr 28 18:08:24 jacekowski: there are a lot of people who hate all the "we will sell all your data" on other platforms. Apr 28 18:08:38 But perhaps it depends on who you talk to. Apr 28 18:08:51 nokia did that too on n900 Apr 28 18:09:00 if you remember mynokia or some crap like that Apr 28 18:09:24 jacekowski: I am talking about things like selling contact lists. Apr 28 18:09:38 nobody is doing that Apr 28 18:09:42 other than facebook Apr 28 18:10:04 jacekowski: pretty much all Android apps want access to it and Internet access. Apr 28 18:10:19 jacekowski: why would they *not*? Apr 28 18:11:17 jacekowski: are you involved with some phone company now? Apr 28 18:11:27 jacekowski: what do people want according to you? Apr 28 18:12:28 iphones Apr 28 18:12:38 that's what people want Apr 28 18:12:41 and that's where market is Apr 28 18:13:09 Does the iphone have some kind of security model? Apr 28 18:13:29 dunno Apr 28 18:13:36 I don't know. there's a few people I know, that a jealous of the N900 Apr 28 18:13:40 probably yes Apr 28 18:13:41 I don't want a flashlight app to have access to a contact list for example. Apr 28 18:13:55 n900 had no security model at all Apr 28 18:14:42 jacekowski: sure, but legally I don't think applications can spy. Apr 28 18:14:54 If OTOH, you say that you spy, it's all fine. Apr 28 18:15:16 applications can do everything Apr 28 18:15:21 do you ever read EULAs? Apr 28 18:16:09 jacekowski: ok, perhaps that was a bad remark. Apr 28 18:16:35 jacekowski: I actually do read EULAs most of the time, yes. Apr 28 18:16:52 jacekowski: but only out of enjoyment, since they are null and void. Apr 28 18:17:29 jacekowski: I am sure that there are other countries where those letters mean anything. Apr 28 18:24:00 I just read something about iPhone security. It seems rather simplistic. Apr 28 18:24:24 Perhaps better than on n900, since that comes with none? Apr 28 18:25:14 It certainly doesn't seem innovative, other than that it is MAC running on a phone. Apr 28 18:25:37 it was the first smarphone for masses Apr 28 18:28:17 I wasn't talking about that; they deserve some credit there. Apr 28 19:29:10 ~ping Apr 28 19:29:10 ~pong Apr 28 19:38:51 thedead1440: nice declaration ;) Apr 28 19:39:09 sixwheeledbeast: spying on me? :p Apr 28 19:39:27 :whistle: Apr 28 19:39:45 today is the first time in ~3 days that i've touched my laptop :p Apr 28 19:39:58 so did it up fast and quick instead of writing an essay :D Apr 28 19:40:22 I knew you where away, so when you pinged I checked the wiki :) Apr 28 19:40:31 hehe Apr 28 19:40:59 and you saved me the trouble by stating a lot of what i experienced too :) Apr 28 19:42:08 I know that my point, cheat :P. TBH I had to make mine not sound like MT's Apr 28 19:42:18 haha Apr 28 19:44:27 Hehe Doc wrote a short story Apr 28 19:44:44 in there parts too IIRC Apr 28 19:44:51 he should have added the son goes to supermarket to buy 3l of milk and no 3l packaging available Apr 28 19:44:57 s/there/three/ Apr 28 19:44:57 sixwheeledbeast meant: in three parts too IIRC Apr 28 19:45:03 that would have completed his examples :D Apr 28 19:45:09 yeah he keeps editing it Apr 28 19:45:21 he would make a good real life politician :D Apr 28 19:45:52 He goes to BBQ's then comes back to add another chapter Apr 28 19:46:02 lol! Apr 28 19:46:15 DocScrutinizer05: where are you? :p Apr 28 19:46:19 burning some steak? Apr 28 19:47:35 doubt it, it'll take years to defrost from -22 degrees Apr 28 19:47:42 hehe Apr 28 19:52:49 fools :-P Apr 28 19:53:01 and here he is :D Apr 28 19:53:32 \o/ Apr 28 19:54:30 we awoke him from his midgard crisis Apr 28 19:54:47 hehe Apr 28 19:55:23 All in order now >>> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2013/Candidate_declarations Apr 28 19:56:47 thanks for keeping it in order ;) Apr 28 19:58:28 self managing, my favourite type. Apr 28 19:58:54 haha Apr 28 20:05:08 brb Apr 28 20:05:34 * thedead1440 goes to sleep; see ya :) Apr 28 20:07:35 that's better! sounds are fixed in pidgin. Apr 28 22:36:02 last call for referendum voting! Apr 28 22:36:59 if you can't find your token mail: you can get it resent to you, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1338413#post1338413 Apr 28 22:38:43 (^^^ a note inspired by the fact that we seen complaints about sending token mails *too early* :-o ) Apr 28 22:45:55 ok I voted for the referendum Apr 28 22:58:01 I'm not really concerned that referendum would fail, but it would shed a bad light on MCC and community if only two dizen community members would bother to vote. We *need* a strong support from community to feel confident for the duties to come Apr 28 22:58:53 or let me put it this way: if community doesn't care, so why should we or anybody we're talking to? Apr 28 23:00:05 this is true for referendum but even more for council elections Apr 28 23:04:01 Sc0rpius: thanks! :-) Apr 28 23:04:49 so usually there are no more than 50 voters? Apr 28 23:05:25 DocScrutinizer05: I haven't been in the forum for quite a while, and I don't know most people, so how should I decide who to vote for? Apr 28 23:05:54 the referendum is a yes/no question Apr 28 23:06:03 so this one in particular should be easy Apr 28 23:06:15 you may read the candidate declarations in http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2013/Candidate_declarations Apr 28 23:06:45 but - as Sc0rpius said - tyou have another 8 or so days to do that Apr 28 23:07:27 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89926 is spiced with links to all the relevant sources of information Apr 28 23:15:53 hmmm, so if I understand all of this correctly, I'm not eligible to vote, as I haven't got any mail token Apr 28 23:16:10 and if I remember correctly, I don't have a garage account, either Apr 28 23:16:16 then obviously you don't understand everything correctly Apr 28 23:16:39 that is very well possible, indeed Apr 28 23:16:52 well, the latter would be a major obstacle indeed, but still not a showstopper Apr 28 23:17:11 ah, I think I've found it Apr 28 23:17:26 >>Important info: This time basically everybody is entitled to participate in voting and we very much like to ask you to actually do. If you haven't received a token mail yet, this might be either due to problems with sending the mail to you, or you're not in the bunch that automatically got a mail due to karma or account age issues. please see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...13#post1338413 how to proceed, there's probably no Apr 28 23:17:27 reason why you shouldn't be allowed to vote.<< Apr 28 23:17:47 yes, I think I've found it Apr 28 23:18:53 we'd need a proof that your been around on maemo at large for >4 weeks at least. People emerging from nowhere just to vote won't get a token Apr 28 23:19:38 I haven't logged in for some time, let's see if my account is still there... Apr 28 23:19:40 being on tmo or on IRC for >4 weeks would suffice to show your honest interest and prove you're not a sock puppet Apr 28 23:19:49 but I've never been that active anyhow :/ Apr 28 23:20:05 doesn't matter Apr 28 23:22:11 hmm, I've jus grepped through my password list, seems I have a garage account and even a bugtracker account Apr 28 23:22:51 if your email setting in your garage account are correct, you either already got a token mail there, or you send a mail to council as suggested in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1338413#post1338413 and I can send it to you in no time Apr 28 23:23:15 I'll check, wait a sec Apr 28 23:24:00 ah, at least the garage account still works =) Apr 28 23:24:06 if however your garage account has an invalid or deceased email addr then editing it will be needed and mail to council will be needed and we need several days to process _that_ particular type of request Apr 28 23:24:31 no, the mail for the garage account is still valid :) Apr 28 23:24:51 though it may take a few minutes until your mail makes it through the greylisting filter Apr 28 23:24:57 ok, if you don't mind send it to me in a query, and I check Apr 28 23:30:49 you go mail! ;-) Apr 28 23:30:57 you got mail! ;-) Apr 28 23:31:02 damn typos Apr 28 23:34:49 thx :) Apr 28 23:38:51