**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 02 02:59:58 2013
May 02 05:48:23 <DocScrutinizer05> xinput --disable "Logitech USB-PS/2 Optical Mouse"; while :; do od -An -N3 -tx1 -w3 /dev/input/mouse1; aplay $(head -n $(( RANDOM % $(cat wh_wav-to-play.cfg |wc -l) + 1 )) wh_wav-to-play.cfg|tail -n 1); done
May 02 05:49:16 <DocScrutinizer05> cheesy enough ;-P
May 02 07:16:42 <cryptonite> hello 
May 02 07:28:13 <jaska> o.O
May 02 07:31:40 <DocScrutinizer05> O.o
May 02 07:32:16 <DocScrutinizer05> .oO°Oo.o.oOo.
May 02 08:38:56 <qwazix> ZogG_laptop, hey
May 02 08:39:11 <qwazix> DocScrutinizer05, why are you emitting bubbles :P ?
May 02 08:41:15 <qwazix> btw I probably won't be able to attend friday's meeting, it's the friday before easter here.
May 02 08:42:43 <DocScrutinizer05> because my life starts to suck
May 02 09:22:26 <unclouded> eject
May 02 09:23:03 <unclouded> whoops, wrong window
May 02 09:28:44 <florian> unclouded: harmess... unless it was the control terminal of your F16 ;)
May 02 09:32:28 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf MAIL??
May 02 09:32:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I nuked sth?
May 02 09:34:16 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, no idea. All back to normal
May 02 09:35:54 <DocScrutinizer05> err, ECHAN
May 02 11:46:04 <n900-dk> Would it be possible to LTE-enable the N900 in some way with a connected USB-dongle?
May 02 11:47:17 <zammy> same question I posted my first day I connected to this channel
May 02 11:57:19 <DocScrutinizer05> not really
May 02 11:57:59 <DocScrutinizer05> USB Vbus power is 5V*100mA max, way too low for LTE dongle
May 02 11:58:11 <DocScrutinizer05> err, maybe 200?
May 02 11:58:15 <DocScrutinizer05> still too low
May 02 12:00:33 <chem|st> n900-dk: with a powered OTG adapter maybe
May 02 12:05:34 <n900-dk> okay, maybe easier with a transportable LTE-router then 
May 02 12:06:01 <DocScrutinizer05> btw it's debatable how much sense such project makes
May 02 12:06:42 <DocScrutinizer05> with internal UMTS modem you outperform any LTE via N900 fake USB
May 02 12:07:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ok ping latencies are probably lower on LTE still
May 02 12:07:56 <DocScrutinizer05> and power saving might work better
May 02 12:08:25 <DocScrutinizer05> but mere maximum theoretical bandwidth isn't a good argument for LTE
May 02 12:08:30 <DocScrutinizer05> in this case
May 02 12:09:09 <n900-dk> USB will be a bottleneck?
May 02 12:09:14 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
May 02 12:09:46 <DocScrutinizer05> N900 performs rather poor on H-E-N USB hostmode
May 02 12:10:08 <n900-dk> ok
May 02 12:12:13 <DocScrutinizer05> it seems even with highspeed mode correctly negotiated USB can't reach even a fraction of the USB2.0 bandwidth of 480Mbit
May 02 12:14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> *might* be related to storage drivers though, the tests I heard of been done with memsticks
May 02 12:14:37 <DocScrutinizer05> or HDD drives
May 02 12:16:55 <cryptonite> guys i have thins strange issue with my n900, running conky i see that the image-viewer app is running and is using 90 mb ram and 270mb vram
May 02 12:32:09 <kerio> cryptonite: so kill it with fire
May 02 12:32:12 <kerio> or with nine
May 02 12:37:25 * DocScrutinizer05 has no faith in conky
May 02 12:37:56 * DocScrutinizer05 prefers a decent htop in a decent xterm any day
May 02 13:23:10 <Raimu> I've noticed seeing exact memory usages on the n900 is downright tricky
May 02 13:46:51 <chiappa> can only login through talk.maemo.org, site icon images broken, cannot post.. for a few days now the forum is acting pretty weird
May 02 13:47:16 <chiappa> am i alone with this?
May 02 13:49:56 <chiappa> oh never mind=) it was just the archive
May 02 13:50:56 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
May 02 16:42:16 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: I guess it worths mentioning cssu-thumb on http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_The_Perfect_Setup
May 02 16:43:36 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: I am biased a bit, that is why I don't want to add that :)
May 02 16:43:54 <freemangordon> (to the wiki page)
May 02 17:06:17 <sixwheeledbeast> freemangordon: Beginners wiki, do you have a "Stable" branch yet :)
May 02 17:08:19 <sixwheeledbeast> Is there a Thumb wiki page?
May 02 17:08:49 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: come on, beginners and KP :P
May 02 17:09:25 <freemangordon> sirdancealot: no wiki page, maybe I should copy the information from the thread to the wiki
May 02 17:09:37 <freemangordon> oops sixwheeledbeast: ^^^
May 02 17:10:02 <sixwheeledbeast> KP without overclock is noted as a recommended but not important step.
May 02 17:10:39 <sixwheeledbeast> KP is important for smartreflex and other bug fixes.
May 02 17:11:34 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: naah, I don;t want to argue on that, I was just guessing it will be a good idea. BTW no matter what you think about "stable/testing" branch I try (and I think I succeed) to keep CSSU-thumb more stable than CSSU-S ;)
May 02 17:11:51 <sixwheeledbeast> I don't see why CSSU Thumb couldn't have it's own page and links to CSSU main page?
May 02 17:12:05 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: no reason besides someone should write it :)
May 02 17:13:38 <sixwheeledbeast> I know what you mean about stable/testing but where do you draw the line to be newbie friendly :) 
May 02 17:15:12 <sixwheeledbeast> freemangordon: should I start a Thumb page and link it to CSSU page using your OP?
May 02 17:15:16 <Woody14619> sixwheeledbeast, Win7Mac: Any feedback on the "How Elections Work" wiki page would be useful.  This is a rough draft right now, so.. Want to be sure in the end that it's clear to anyone reading how things work.
May 02 17:15:40 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: if nothing has changed (from to user POV) after installation, I'd say it is newbie friendly :)
May 02 17:15:54 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: I'll appreciate it
May 02 17:16:43 <sixwheeledbeast> In testing/thumb that's not the case then, AFAIK. Testing forces rotation and cameraui2 etc 
May 02 17:17:05 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: rotation is no longer forced
May 02 17:17:32 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: oh, you mean desktop rotation?
May 02 17:18:39 <sixwheeledbeast> I'll look into both wiki's above in minute. Yes desktop rotation, the way I see it testing should force you to test all things whereas Stable should keep the same UX
May 02 17:20:00 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: honestly, I'd assume SR way more "newbie unfriendly" and unstable in general than any CSSU flavour. No, desktop rotation is meant to be a production feature, not some testing stuff
May 02 17:20:28 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: there is "forced rotation" for applications, but that's a different beer
May 02 17:20:53 <n900-dk> anything not working in CSSU-thumb?
May 02 17:21:16 <freemangordon> n900-dk: AFAIK no
May 02 17:22:13 <n900-dk> so a non-thumb app will work fine?
May 02 17:24:28 <sixwheeledbeast> freemangordon: SR newbie unfriendly for stock freqs? really? It is released via a "stable" channel to all users. I understand many get confused between desktop rotation and forced... 
May 02 17:25:35 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: SR is not "released" as it is disabled by default, one should enable it to make it active
May 02 17:25:53 <freemangordon> n900-dk: yes
May 02 17:25:55 <kerio> freemangordon: hold on, what's unstable with SR?
May 02 17:26:47 <freemangordon> kerio: hmm? I was comparing it with CSSU-thumb, not saying that it is unstable (for stock freqs)
May 02 17:27:00 <freemangordon> kerio: read the backscroll please
May 02 17:27:03 <kerio> i see
May 02 17:28:35 <sixwheeledbeast> Well I see what you mean but IMO KP and CSSU come hand in hand as part of the community fixes. 
May 02 17:29:07 <freemangordon> hmm, why is that? CSSU has no dependency to KP
May 02 17:29:35 <freemangordon> and it will bring its own kernel (hopefully with the next after the next update)
May 02 17:30:18 <freemangordon> which will be stripped down KP of course, but still
May 02 17:31:06 * ShadowJK has had a few gst/dsp crashes after switching to thumb+sr
May 02 17:32:16 <ShadowJK> but i also switched device
May 02 17:32:45 <n900-dk> gst/dsp?
May 02 17:33:16 <ShadowJK> when watching video
May 02 17:33:35 <kerio> i sometimes get some crashes
May 02 17:33:37 <kerio> with streaming video
May 02 17:33:56 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: do you have those crashes with SR disabled?
May 02 17:34:13 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: I guess you don't OC.
May 02 17:34:26 <sixwheeledbeast> KP is required for Smartreflex, IPv6, CIFS, Mobile hotspot etc. I honestly thought SR was enabled as default with KP tho.
May 02 17:34:29 <ShadowJK> i dont
May 02 17:35:14 <sixwheeledbeast> Is there a point to strip down KP why no depend on it?
May 02 17:35:41 <ShadowJK> I noticed voltages changed from the at-boot ones when loadinf "default", and tried to make custom profile with sr and boot volts, but it's different still *shrug*
May 02 17:39:13 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: no, SR is disabled by default
May 02 17:39:27 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: "default" profile enables SR
May 02 17:40:32 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: does it crash when you load the untweaked "default" profile?
May 02 17:43:12 <freemangordon> ShadowJK: also, what crash do you see, "DSP MMU fault"?
May 02 17:44:43 <sixwheeledbeast> Woody14619: I see no issues. Works well following "the life of a single vote"
May 02 17:50:53 <sixwheeledbeast> Seems silly not to use SR if it's stable. Hmm I see your point. So when will CSSU come with K-CSSU?
May 02 17:55:14 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: got to run, will continue tomorrow :)
May 02 17:55:17 <freemangordon> night
May 02 17:55:28 <sixwheeledbeast> gn
May 02 17:55:49 <Win7Mac> nighty...
May 02 17:56:01 <Woody14619> Thanks sixwheeledbeast.  Win7Mac has some input on it, since some may be confusing to non-native speakers.  Wll be blending as best we can to see if we can make sure everyone like sit.
May 02 17:56:13 <Woody14619> s/like sit/likes it/
May 02 17:56:13 <infobot> Woody14619 meant: Thanks sixwheeledbeast.  Win7Mac has some input on it, since some may be confusing to non-native speakers.  Wll be blending as best we can to see if we can make sure everyone likes it.
May 02 18:10:38 <ShadowJK> freemangordon; yeah the untweaked default profile is what crashed. Unfortunately I don't remember the dmesg of crash right now, I'll let you know next time it happens
May 02 18:47:45 <Mr_Stupid> Hello, anybody here familiar with py2deb?
May 02 18:49:03 <Mr_Stupid> The wiki says i should build my app in MyDocs and that i have to take care about correct permissions set. But MyDocs is fat, so i can't set permissions?
May 02 18:53:24 <sixwheeledbeast> I didn't get on with py2deb. Not much help I know. Have you looked at threads on tmo?
May 02 18:54:24 <Mr_Stupid> Yes, i searched tmo. But didn't find anything
May 02 18:58:54 <sixwheeledbeast> Mr_Stupid: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80914 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83946 - Try these?
May 02 18:59:12 <Mr_Stupid> thx, i'll have a look
May 02 19:41:39 <sixwheeledbeast> There is now a thumb wiki page :) http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb
May 02 19:42:18 <Mr_Stupid> Hmmm, i didn't try thumb yet :)
May 02 19:44:48 <panjgoori> thanks for the wiki sixwheeledbeast
May 02 19:45:07 <sixwheeledbeast> Woody14619: Not sure if I am being thick but I am not sure I understand the new table
May 02 19:46:13 <sixwheeledbeast> panjgoori: fmg did the hard work I just wikified it really and fixed duff grammar.
May 02 19:47:33 <sixwheeledbeast> table is : http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work#Cloning_Voting_Tokens
May 02 19:52:34 <n900-dk> Can you go from CSSU-Testing to CSSU-Thumb without reflashing?
May 02 19:57:08 <sixwheeledbeast> yes
May 02 19:58:09 <sixwheeledbeast> you can go from any flavour to thumb
May 02 19:59:50 <n900-dk> apps must be thumb enabled when compiled to benefit from thumb?  Sorry for stupid questions :)
May 02 20:01:48 * n900-dk don't really get thumb.. 
May 02 20:02:13 <sixwheeledbeast> no, existing applications can be used. However thumb versions of applications OMP, qtworldclock) will reduce used memory more.
May 02 20:03:09 <n900-dk> ok, but only very few apps have thumb versions?
May 02 20:03:24 <sixwheeledbeast> n900-dk: what don't you get, I can try to explain.
May 02 20:04:01 <sixwheeledbeast> yes at the moment there's not many, hopefully autobuilder will be able to compile thumb versions in the future.
May 02 20:11:31 <n900-dk> I understand the smaller footprint and faster execution, but as long as very few apps are thumb enabled, I don't understand how to really benefit from thumb. Guess I need to try it to have my own experience :)
May 02 20:34:06 <Win7Mac> How ya like me now: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work#Overview
May 02 20:36:25 <Win7Mac> does this make sense to you?: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work&curid=5352&diff=51497&oldid=51496
May 02 20:46:41 <n900-dk> hmm, I need libxmuu1 for installing snx. How do I get libxmuu1?
May 02 20:51:08 <Mr_Stupid> libxmuu1 is in the repos
May 02 20:51:39 <Mr_Stupid> apt-get install libxmuu1
May 02 20:53:54 <n900-dk> which repo? Guess I dont have it..
May 02 20:55:14 <Mr_Stupid> look: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libxmuu1/
May 02 20:56:52 <Mr_Stupid> btw, what's snx?
May 02 21:00:11 <n900-dk> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60760
May 02 21:02:16 <sixwheeledbeast> n900-dk: sorry pidgin is not pinging me anymore. Your forgotting the main lib's etc on the device itself.
May 02 21:03:55 <sixwheeledbeast> if you check thumb changelog, fmg is compiling maemo bits in thumb ISA. hence smaller code.
May 02 21:27:04 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: that table is 3 dimensional projection into 2 dimensions, of course it's confusing
May 02 21:27:45 <DocScrutinizer05> it should become 2 tables
May 02 21:31:55 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: oh good I thought it was suppose to make sense 
May 02 21:32:58 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619 been extremely oversmart there :-) 3UA9VTp  == ?_User_A_?_Vote_Token_?
May 02 21:33:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not sure if the "?" are random or also make some sense
May 02 21:33:41 <Woody14619> just random.  did you see the "verfication strings" yet? ;)
May 02 21:35:25 <DocScrutinizer05> also caling users "A" and "B" doesn't exactly help, usually you use "Antony" and "Bob"
May 02 21:35:36 <Woody14619> Good idea. :)
May 02 21:36:01 <Woody14619> Editing now, so will include that.. :)
May 02 21:39:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I suggest X:table_names Y:*user-name* (so for antony and Bob) table will have 2 rows. Then use " or 3 or 4 identical wiki tables that show the evolution during cloning and voting
May 02 21:40:26 <DocScrutinizer05> s/table_/db_table&field_/
May 02 21:40:28 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: I suggest X:db_table&field_names Y:*user-name* (so for antony and Bob) table will have 2 rows. Then use " or 3 or 4 identical wiki tables that show the evolution during cloning and voting
May 02 21:40:42 <Woody14619> I was considering such a thing.  But table manupulation in Wiki is nearly non-existant. :P
May 02 21:41:29 <sixwheeledbeast> how did infobot manage to add a smily?
May 02 21:41:41 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, there needs to pop up some table editor for mediawiki
May 02 21:42:05 <DocScrutinizer05> sixwheeledbeast: not here
May 02 21:42:16 <sixwheeledbeast> pidgin :)
May 02 21:42:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and I honestly wouldn't know what to make a smiley from
May 02 21:43:11 <DocScrutinizer05> db_table&field_
May 02 21:43:17 <DocScrutinizer05> ^^^ here?
May 02 21:43:42 <DocScrutinizer05> rather
May 02 21:43:46 <DocScrutinizer05> :db_table&field_
May 02 21:44:07 <sixwheeledbeast> mm.. tables in wikis, fun.
May 02 21:44:18 <DocScrutinizer05> PITA
May 02 21:44:46 <DocScrutinizer05> we could use an exporter from openoffice to mediawiki
May 02 21:45:39 <DocScrutinizer05> or HEY can't mediawiki include HTML code?
May 02 21:45:50 <sixwheeledbeast> there's many different methods too.
May 02 21:46:03 <sixwheeledbeast> yes with html tag?
May 02 21:46:11 <DocScrutinizer05> thought so
May 02 21:46:41 <DocScrutinizer05> so create tables in openoffice and export as html, then import to mediawiki
May 02 21:46:42 <sixwheeledbeast> but stops sortable and other features of wiki tables working.
May 02 21:47:45 <DocScrutinizer05> the web editor of mediawiki is an insult
May 02 21:49:21 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe we could "steal" the editor etherpad or google are using?
May 02 21:50:11 <DocScrutinizer05> also browser borne both of them, but real editors
May 02 21:50:47 <DocScrutinizer05> not an embarrassing text-input-box with a tiny bit of "decoration"
May 02 21:51:11 <sixwheeledbeast> decoration?
May 02 21:52:35 <DocScrutinizer05> like "B" "I" "U"
May 02 21:53:07 <DocScrutinizer05> even "ultrasmart" function to insert URLs
May 02 21:53:31 <DocScrutinizer05> the "toolbar" in mediawiki "editor"
May 02 21:54:09 <sixwheeledbeast> I never use them, just learn the markup.
May 02 21:54:40 <DocScrutinizer05> WYSIWYG is an invention of late 80s of last century
May 02 21:55:06 <Win7Mac> OpenSource community should not rely on google or alike, IMHO. Stealing is ok, though... ;-)
May 02 21:55:21 <xes> could someone point me to fix this: http://git.xfce.org/apps/midori/tree/midori/midori-browser.c?id=889dcabc330776342782e1cf4f0ff960623ae7d7#n783
May 02 21:55:28 <Win7Mac> Whats wrong with WYSIWYG?
May 02 21:55:50 <DocScrutinizer05> nothing, just missing in mediawiki editor
May 02 21:55:53 <Win7Mac> enough for the average Joe
May 02 21:56:09 <DocScrutinizer05> xes: sorry?
May 02 21:56:14 <xes> all uppercase is not a good idea, but also replacing HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_AUTOCAP with HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL
May 02 21:57:07 <xes> does not gives the expected result.
May 02 21:57:11 <sixwheeledbeast> I think Doc would like WYSIWYG in wiki. not old style markup language, however I am used to html so wiki language doesn't bother me there all the same.
May 02 21:57:30 <Win7Mac> ok, I see
May 02 21:58:09 <DocScrutinizer05> for editing tables it's a plain abomnation and a PITA
May 02 21:59:24 <DocScrutinizer05> tables in mediawiki are as non-intuitive and clumsy as it might get, when it comes to editing them
May 02 22:00:50 <sixwheeledbeast> http://sourceforge.net/projects/csv2other/
May 02 22:00:58 <sixwheeledbeast> got a csv?
May 02 22:01:56 <GI_Jack> does anyone know where I can get the battery cal scripts, the scripts in the thread 404
May 02 22:02:33 <gregoa> G 37
May 02 22:02:40 <gregoa> *cough*
May 02 22:04:25 <DocScrutinizer05> GI_Jack: try my server maemo.cloud-7.de
May 02 22:05:09 <DocScrutinizer05> gregoa: hmß
May 02 22:05:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ?
May 02 22:05:29 <DocScrutinizer05> what's G37?
May 02 22:05:32 <GI_Jack> DocScrutinizer05, what dir
May 02 22:05:49 <DocScrutinizer05> maemo/tools or sth like that
May 02 22:05:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess
May 02 22:06:36 <ashley> what am I not getting here? I registered an account via garage.maemo.org, confirmed it and all and the account seems to work for the Maemo Wiki and all, but I can't login to talk.maemo.org with it and trying to register a new talk.maemo.org forum account takes me to a "You have left a required field blank." page, always...
May 02 22:06:38 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh
May 02 22:07:07 <DocScrutinizer05> tmo accounts are unrelated to garage accounts
May 02 22:07:12 <sixwheeledbeast> ashley: w.m.o m.o and t.m.o are all different logins
May 02 22:07:28 <gregoa> DocScrutinizer05: "G 37" is a typo for "/g 37" which is "goto windows 37 in my irssi"
May 02 22:07:38 <DocScrutinizer05> aaaah
May 02 22:08:08 <sixwheeledbeast> ta for cleaning up some wiki pages too :)
May 02 22:08:28 <ashley> so...why doesn't vBulletin like me, then?
May 02 22:08:38 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno
May 02 22:08:50 <DocScrutinizer05> you left some field blank, maybe ;-)
May 02 22:08:51 <ashley> and you're welcome; I'm a MediaWiki dev and all (and wiki.maemo.org could seriously do with a software upgrade, heh...) ;)
May 02 22:09:18 <ashley> http://talk.maemo.org/register.php -- there's only one field (sic), the checkbox "I have read, and agree to abide by the maemo.org - Talk rules."
May 02 22:09:36 <ashley> if left unchecked, the resulting page says "You have chosen not to accept the forum rules, so registration cannot continue. Click here to return to the main forums page, or click the 'Back' button on your browser if you now want to agree with the forum rules."
May 02 22:09:53 <ashley> if checked, the resulting page claims that "You have left a required field blank."
May 02 22:10:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm sure you need to provide more than just a checkbox tick to register a new account
May 02 22:10:57 <DocScrutinizer05> for me this URL shows I'm already registered ;-)
May 02 22:11:45 <ashley> I'd assume that first it shows the rules and if and only if you agree with them, it takes you to the actual registration form where you type in the desired username, password, email, CAPTCHA and whatnot
May 02 22:11:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ashley: I'd be surprised however when vBulletin tmo new user registration suddenly was broken
May 02 22:12:37 <sixwheeledbeast> no captcha IIRC more like a simple maths question. 
May 02 22:12:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ashley: I don't think it works like that
May 02 22:13:46 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe check your browser settings: adblock, JS, load-images, whatnot else
May 02 22:14:41 <sixwheeledbeast> hmm .. ^^ my first thought, I have adblock and no issues here. What browser?
May 02 22:14:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, checking now
May 02 22:15:06 <ashley> I use Internet Explorer 10 (yes, I know...) on Windows 7 (Ultimate); the page's HTML clearly shows that there's nothing else of interest on the registration page besides the rules and the checkbox
May 02 22:15:25 <ashley> (and I block only some adservers, like Google's and doubleclick.net and whatnot, so I doubt that could be causing it either)
May 02 22:15:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ashley: you're right, you have to checkmark 2I agree" first, then it takes you to a page with all the text input boxes
May 02 22:16:47 <DocScrutinizer05> there R.OPENX wants to change an existing cookie, I guess that's from captcha
May 02 22:19:12 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/05/03/plasma-desktoptR3743.png is first page
May 02 22:20:15 <ashley> aye, indeed it is
May 02 22:20:37 <Woody14619> Okey.  Is that table better Docscrutinizer05? :)
May 02 22:21:47 <sixwheeledbeast> NoScript on Firefox causes the issue you mention. Had to disable noscript and delete cookies to continue.
May 02 22:22:31 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/05/03/plasma-desktoptR3743.png is next page
May 02 22:22:37 <DocScrutinizer05> oops
May 02 22:23:08 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/05/03/plasma-desktopZL3743.png
May 02 22:23:14 <sixwheeledbeast> table is: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work#Cloning_Voting_Tokens
May 02 22:23:25 <Woody14619> Also, sixwheeledbeast, since you noted the table wasn't obvious. :)
May 02 22:26:51 <ashley> yep, but I had no luck in getting to that page (and my issue can hardly be a NoScript one since I use Internet Explorer and the last I checked NoScript wasn't available for IE ;) and FOSS-y projects probably do _not_ depend on plusone.google.com or such, so the fact that I block some ad servers browser-side can't be causing this one either)
May 02 22:27:01 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: lower right: 
May 02 22:27:03 <DocScrutinizer05> "Bob", "Chad" ⇒ OMGuVotedn2electsA
May 02 22:27:04 <DocScrutinizer05> "Bob","Mark" ⇒ OMGuVotedBE2g0prty
May 02 22:27:29 <DocScrutinizer05> if these names are candidates, then use different names
May 02 22:28:29 <Woody14619> They would be... Why not have Bob be electable too? :)
May 02 22:28:39 <Woody14619> Bob gets to vote! :)
May 02 22:28:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I gather they are candidates, since in first "record" there's "Yes" for an answer to a referendum
May 02 22:29:27 <DocScrutinizer05> If it wouldn't look too identical, I'd use "Rob" ;-)
May 02 22:29:50 <DocScrutinizer05> but "Sally","Tim" is probably fine
May 02 22:32:00 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe even a italic prefix: "referendum1_" resp "council-election34_"
May 02 22:32:02 <sixwheeledbeast> ashley: I have no way of testing IE10 to help you.
May 02 22:35:35 <ashley> :-/
May 02 22:39:01 <sixwheeledbeast> night all, busy day tomorrow.
May 02 22:59:28 <Win7Mac> Doc, use Adam & Eve... sounds easier
May 02 23:00:54 <DocScrutinizer05> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_and_Bob
May 02 23:01:53 <Woody14619> I hear you can get anything you want and Alice's resturaunt.
May 02 23:02:22 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Craig, the password cracker (usually encountered in situations with stored hashed/salted passwords).<<
May 02 23:02:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
May 02 23:02:44 <Woody14619> o.O
May 02 23:05:00 <Woody14619> I prefer my passwords buttered, not salted. :)
May 02 23:05:29 * Woody14619 poke kerio.  You're slow! ^^^
May 02 23:05:39 <Win7Mac> guys...
May 02 23:07:47 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway you see it's not all that tricial to pick good placeholder names that don't already imply something (wrong)
May 02 23:07:55 <DocScrutinizer05> trivial*
May 02 23:09:59 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: I still think the answers need a hint in their naming to show that the database knows for *which* *election* they were meant. 
May 02 23:10:18 <Woody14619> Hmm... 
May 02 23:10:44 <DocScrutinizer05> in RL they are pointers to a table which holds all valid answers/votes for a election anyway
May 02 23:10:52 <Woody14619> While it does have that in real life, It's not really relevant to the  chart, but.. yeah...
May 02 23:11:10 <Woody14619> how about....
May 02 23:12:44 <DocScrutinizer05> another idea I think would look nice: strike-through the tokens when they get used up, instead  of instantly deleting them from table
May 02 23:13:14 <DocScrutinizer05> only remove them for next step diagram of table
May 02 23:13:51 <DocScrutinizer05> (I have NFC how to markup <strike> )
May 02 23:14:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that also looks good now
May 02 23:15:19 <Woody14619> Like that... :)
May 02 23:15:47 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm not happy with the names of the candidates, in votes. The are not obviously grouped into a alphabetical range
May 02 23:16:21 <DocScrutinizer05> K, L, M, N  or R,S,T,U
May 02 23:16:48 <DocScrutinizer05> C is electorate still
May 02 23:17:02 <Woody14619> Well, it may be they chose based on who they liked better. :)
May 02 23:17:08 <DocScrutinizer05> like in "Chad"
May 02 23:18:12 <DocScrutinizer05> and maybe one of them has a kyrilic name. Nah, really, when using symbolic aka placeholder names, certain conventions should be followed
May 02 23:19:02 <DocScrutinizer05> that's about common sense resp prior knowledge and context
May 02 23:20:03 <DocScrutinizer05> you can transport a limited amount of meaning in naming only. If you try to pack too much into naming, it loses _all_ meaning
May 02 23:22:13 <DocScrutinizer05> whn a IT literate user sees "Chad" there then she doesn't think "aah, maybe electorate can also be candidates" but rather "hmm, this record in table can have candidates or electorate in that field. But based on what?"
May 02 23:22:40 * Woody14619 chose Zarrah to indicate last entry. :)
May 02 23:22:53 <DocScrutinizer05> that's also debatable
May 02 23:23:10 <Woody14619> A, B, C, ... Z
May 02 23:24:01 <DocScrutinizer05> this allocates complete alphabetic range to electorate, not leaving any ranges like R,S,T,... for any other group
May 02 23:24:43 <DocScrutinizer05> while in RL it may be true that all candidates are also members of electorate, here it's not relevant
May 02 23:25:54 <Woody14619> Well, right... They're voting tokens.  They represent potential voters.  The chart isn't just hanging out in space... There's text near it... describing some of that. :)  And really, this is more about the cloning process.
May 02 23:26:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd rather use "...\n(6000 more of electorate)" than "Zarrah"
May 02 23:26:37 <Woody14619> Sigh.. I think it's fine... But hey, it's a wiki! ;)
May 02 23:26:55 <Woody14619> Anyway... I think it's pretty much ready for exposure to TMO. :P
May 02 23:27:51 <Woody14619> I'm sure I'll get lots of comments from people misinterpreting all of it, but... That's to be expected.  But if even a few people understand it better, then it's an improvement.
May 02 23:30:27 <Woody14619> Happy to see a few people working on it though. :)
May 02 23:32:49 * Win7Mac : good night all
May 02 23:40:12 <Woody14619> K, ride is here.. away for dinner, prob for night.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 03 02:59:58 2013