**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 18 02:59:58 2013
May 18 04:21:18 <dhbiker> sooo.... phone not booting and not going into flash mode
May 18 04:21:26 <dhbiker> let me guess empty battery ?
May 18 12:32:46 <Muelli> ~bupbat
May 18 12:32:46 <infobot> [bupbat] http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months
May 18 12:35:12 <DocScrutinizer05> dhbiker, nox-:
May 18 12:35:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ~tabletsdev
May 18 12:35:16 <infobot> rumour has it, tabletsdev is http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/
May 18 12:36:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ~skeiron is also see: ~tabletsdev
May 18 12:36:07 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
May 18 12:36:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ~skeiron
May 18 12:36:14 <infobot> skeiron is probably the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/   http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143, or see: ~tabletsdev
May 18 12:36:46 <Muelli> hm. I don't understand that bupbat information. It suggests that there a two types of elements that one could use to replace the CMOS battery. The farnell link brings me to the capacitor. But what's the other option?
May 18 12:37:09 <DocScrutinizer05> LiIon
May 18 12:37:19 <DocScrutinizer05> deprecated
May 18 12:38:26 <Muelli> is there any information on the specs of that LiIon battery? Like type number or smth? I want to head out to Conrad and they don't seem to have that type of capacitor. So I'm enumerating alternatives.
May 18 12:40:10 <DocScrutinizer05> Conrad can't help you
May 18 12:46:59 <dhbiker> hi there
May 18 12:47:11 <dhbiker> what to do if flasher says
May 18 12:47:14 <dhbiker> Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0
May 18 12:47:15 <dhbiker> Booting device into flash mode.
May 18 12:47:19 <dhbiker> and after that nothing
May 18 12:47:27 <dhbiker> orange light and thats it
May 18 12:48:43 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/capacitors/electric-double-layer-capacitors-supercaps/131084?k=414hr <--bupbat
May 18 12:50:39 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv32=115&FV=fff40006%2Cfff804e4&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25  <--bupbat LiIon
May 18 12:51:16 <DocScrutinizer05> HB414-IV02E probably original component
May 18 12:57:56 <miniyo> hi guys, can anyone give any hint on how to proceed with http://pastebin.com/YnxQKirk ?
May 18 12:58:51 <DocScrutinizer05> dhbiker: charge your battery
May 18 12:59:04 <dhbiker> i did
May 18 12:59:06 <dhbiker> flashed
May 18 12:59:12 <dhbiker> and now it doesn't want to start up
May 18 12:59:14 <dhbiker> ffs
May 18 12:59:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ~flash
May 18 12:59:26 <infobot> rumour has it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
May 18 12:59:41 <dhbiker> i'm on thi page
May 18 12:59:48 <dhbiker> s*
May 18 13:00:26 <dhbiker> now it powers on and instantly shuts down at nokia logo
May 18 13:00:30 <DocScrutinizer05> then your procedure is not in line with what the page tells to do
May 18 13:01:35 <DocScrutinizer05> do a complete reflash (*COMBINED* and *VANILLA*)
May 18 13:01:42 <Muelli> DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the battery information.
May 18 13:01:45 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
May 18 13:01:54 <dhbiker> apparently the other phone lied about charge
May 18 13:02:02 <dhbiker> seems like this one is out of juice
May 18 13:02:03 <dhbiker> -.-
May 18 13:02:10 <DocScrutinizer05> toldya
May 18 13:03:35 <dhbiker> charging with nokia c3
May 18 13:03:52 <dhbiker> kay then i do the right stuff... only the batter needs to be properly charged
May 18 13:03:55 <dhbiker> ty DocScrutinizer05 
May 18 13:04:05 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
May 18 13:04:27 <DocScrutinizer05> miniyo: are you even in the right channel? this looks like N9 to me
May 18 13:04:43 <Muelli> too bad it's 30 USD shipping for the 1USB capacitor >.<
May 18 13:04:49 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, 
May 18 13:04:54 <DocScrutinizer05> ~questions
May 18 13:04:54 <Muelli> s/USB/USD/
May 18 13:04:54 <infobot> remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
May 18 13:04:55 <infobot> Muelli meant: too bad it's 30 USD shipping for the 1USD capacitor >.<
May 18 13:05:06 <miniyo> DocScrutinizer05: its n900
May 18 13:05:36 <miniyo> I created empty folders, dpkg doesn't complaint now
May 18 13:05:38 <DocScrutinizer05> Muelli: yeah, that's quite a problem
May 18 13:06:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I several times started an effort to join orders to get the shipping cut down for every participant
May 18 13:06:42 <DocScrutinizer05> it never panned out
May 18 13:08:31 <DocScrutinizer05> for 5 people, it would look like: 1 bupbat = 1USD + (30/5)USD + 0.55EUR for a standard international letter
May 18 13:09:55 <Muelli> plus 19%VAT
May 18 13:13:50 <Muelli> Farnell seems to ship for free to the UK.
May 18 13:16:19 <DocScrutinizer05> 25 http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/PAS414HR-VA5R/587-2158-6-ND/1959165  = Zwischensumme 20,82 €   Versand 18,00 €
May 18 13:18:15 <DocScrutinizer05> ~(20.82 + 18) / 25
May 18 13:18:15 <infobot> 1.5528
May 18 13:19:09 <DocScrutinizer05> assuming you'd find enough people willing to get a few, at that price, so all 25 get sold
May 18 13:20:01 <Muelli> so ~2.50 each battery/capacitor (if the batteries do not have to go through customs).
May 18 13:20:29 <DocScrutinizer05> 1.5528
May 18 13:21:01 <DocScrutinizer05> plus shipping from De -> destination, usually .55EUR
May 18 13:21:24 <DocScrutinizer05> once per order
May 18 13:21:26 <Muelli> nah. you can't even send a letter within Germany for that price ;-) It's 0.75 EUR.
May 18 13:21:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ugh, since when?
May 18 13:22:03 <Muelli> it's .75 for international letters for a long time.
May 18 13:22:14 <Muelli> and .58 for domestic letters since 01.01.
May 18 13:22:30 <DocScrutinizer05> whatever
May 18 13:22:54 <DocScrutinizer05> 20 ct difference
May 18 13:23:10 <DocScrutinizer05> on a total of at least 15EUR
May 18 13:23:34 <DocScrutinizer05> since I wouldn't start for qty < 10 pcs
May 18 13:24:21 <DocScrutinizer05> well, maybe I'd do 5 qty, when 4 persons step up to get 5
May 18 13:27:37 * RST38h moos
May 18 13:28:58 <Win7Mac> probably you can get them here?: http://de.rs-online.com/web/c/batterien/batterien/knopfzellen-batterien/
May 18 13:29:46 <rikanee> the battery's soldered anyway to the N900, why not replace it with a cap?
May 18 13:30:56 <DocScrutinizer05> this *is* a cap
May 18 13:31:10 <rikanee> ah, alright.
May 18 13:31:25 <DocScrutinizer05> 60mF
May 18 13:31:39 <DocScrutinizer05> m like milli
May 18 13:31:53 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05: mmm, that should keep the RTC powered for some time
May 18 13:31:55 <DocScrutinizer05> aka 0.06F
May 18 13:32:06 <DocScrutinizer05> for a week or two I guess
May 18 13:33:39 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway better than a LiIonMg cell that's supposed to power the RTC for 24 monzhs but breaks and is dead after 12
May 18 13:33:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
May 18 13:34:12 <DocScrutinizer05> not to talk about the mess when it leaks
May 18 13:34:19 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05: just one of the (numerous) little design flaws that made it into the N900.
May 18 13:34:49 <DocScrutinizer05> that particular design (rather QA) flaw made it into several products
May 18 13:35:29 <DocScrutinizer05> in Openmoko Freerunner we used exactly same friggin Seiko battery, and thus I already knew they would break after 12 months the latest ;-P
May 18 13:36:06 <rikanee> well, they certainly didn't consider the fact that the user would welcome having to reset clock after having the battery drained for a year+++ than having to set clock again after having battery out for 3 seconds after a year of ownership ;)
May 18 13:36:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I have like 80 spare here, from fab, and all are dead X-P
May 18 13:37:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and don't ask about the nightmare to reflow those critters
May 18 13:37:54 <DocScrutinizer05> nearly impossible
May 18 13:38:33 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05, assuming the battery didn't wet the bed, a chip-remover (directed flow?) hot air gun works well.
May 18 13:39:06 <DocScrutinizer05> i'm talking about production line
May 18 13:39:31 <divVerent> wait... so the n900 has something (cap) to power the rtc when the battery is removed?
May 18 13:39:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I think in the end our fab had them hand assembled
May 18 13:39:38 <divVerent> never worked for me ;)
May 18 13:39:47 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05, wait, you have 80 OM boards with dead batteries?
May 18 13:39:49 <rikanee> ouch.
May 18 13:39:53 <divVerent> not that I care much, I have ntp sync in the status dropdown
May 18 13:39:59 <DocScrutinizer05> no, 80 batteries
May 18 13:40:19 <DocScrutinizer05> unused fresh dead ones
May 18 13:40:41 <rikanee> that's some awful shelf life.
May 18 13:40:46 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
May 18 13:41:02 <DocScrutinizer05> Seiko cheating
May 18 13:41:21 <DocScrutinizer05> it's broken-at-production product
May 18 13:41:31 <DocScrutinizer05> just it turns out only 12 months later
May 18 13:43:04 <DocScrutinizer05> divVerent: no surprise it never worked for you - probably you never owned a N900 that been younger than 12 months (since production) ;-P
May 18 13:44:00 <divVerent> hehe, yes
May 18 13:44:11 <divVerent> so this is a dead battery inside?
May 18 13:44:17 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
May 18 13:44:19 <divVerent> will it leak if I dont remove it?
May 18 13:44:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, possibly
May 18 13:44:41 <Raimu> :|
May 18 13:44:48 <divVerent> and it is soldered in?
May 18 13:44:52 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
May 18 13:45:07 <divVerent> damn... so I probably should remove it but can't
May 18 13:45:11 <DocScrutinizer05> directly next to power button
May 18 13:45:16 <divVerent> so best I can do is hope it will not leak
May 18 13:45:24 <rikanee> divVerent: not only is there a dead battery inside, there's a dead battery with likely awful electrolytic inside
May 18 13:45:46 <divVerent> they all have  awful electrolyte ;)
May 18 13:46:05 <DocScrutinizer05> well, it's not like a zinc-carbon battery, the leaking fluid is some organic acid that's not that destructive, it *seems*
May 18 13:46:44 <DocScrutinizer05> but it's not exactly gentle to your skin
May 18 13:47:07 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway the amount of electrolyte is small inside that 414 coin
May 18 13:47:32 <DocScrutinizer05> diameter 4.8mm, height 1.5mm (or somesuch)
May 18 13:47:53 <DocScrutinizer05> and max 5% of that are electrolyte I guess
May 18 13:48:57 <rikanee> oh, on an unrelated side note, my ISP just implemented capping and throttling on my unlimited plan. wonderful.
May 18 13:49:32 <Raimu> rikanee, where'd you live?
May 18 13:49:36 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.yuden.co.jp/productdata/catalog/en/capacitor01_e.pdf
May 18 13:49:41 <rikanee> Raimu, the Philippines.
May 18 13:50:58 <rikanee> since this is super ****ed, I'm going to my ISP this monday to terminate the contract and demand that they waive the ETF and CPE uninstall fee.
May 18 13:55:13 <Muelli> so here's what I'll do. I try to order at uk.farnell.com by Monday. Hoping that they'll deliver Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll meet up with a British friend and return the week after. So by 01.06 I should be in possession of the parts. Shall I order some more? Who wants stuff?
May 18 13:55:59 <Muelli> (It's apparently free delivery to the UK)
May 18 13:58:52 <DocScrutinizer05> awesome! >> Don’t store PAS capacitor in a place where exposed to ozone, ultraviolet or x-ray. <<
May 18 14:00:09 <DocScrutinizer05> Muelli: sure, please get me 10
May 18 14:04:43 <DocScrutinizer05> Muelli: though I honestly doubt Farnell will deliver free of charge. They's lose money on doing that
May 18 14:05:10 <DocScrutinizer05> no sane business will do stuff they lose money on
May 18 14:05:55 <DocScrutinizer05> Fernel Germany calims free shipping for orders >=65EUR
May 18 14:06:17 <DocScrutinizer05> s/calims/offers/
May 18 14:06:18 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: Fernel Germany offers free shipping for orders >=65EUR
May 18 14:06:35 <DocScrutinizer05> and Farnell of course
May 18 14:09:33 <DocScrutinizer05> but Farnell Deutschland doesn't ship to end users anyway, see http://www.hbe-shop.de/ for their end user outlet
May 18 14:11:27 <DocScrutinizer05> HBE ships free of charge for orders >=90EUR
May 18 14:13:02 <DocScrutinizer05> Muelli: http://privatepaste.com/a11cd169b9
May 18 14:16:25 <DocScrutinizer05> KONDENSATOR,0.06F, 3.3V, STAKED COIN ArtikelNr.: 2112777 Stückpreis: 1,13 €   *10 = 11,30EUR; +~12EUR for shipping
May 18 14:18:43 <DocScrutinizer05> Muelli: I'd offer to get some of those for you (any qty you like) for 1,13/unit plus 7EUR shipping contribution for the whole thing
May 18 14:20:33 <DocScrutinizer05> so you can get one for ~8EUR, or 10 for ~ 1.83/unit
May 18 14:24:52 <Muelli> I see
May 18 14:28:58 <DocScrutinizer05> if you give me a quantity you'd like, I'd go ordering right away
May 18 14:30:21 <DocScrutinizer05> (would be honestly surprised if this time this pans out)
May 18 15:58:52 <kerio> ~rescueos
May 18 15:58:52 <infobot> [rescue-os] http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/
May 18 16:09:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder if we could get rescueos to a more stable URL
May 18 16:10:23 <DocScrutinizer05> I dunno if my mirror on maemo.cloud-7 is up to date
May 18 16:13:41 <kerio> Pali: is the user supposed to change mount-opts?
May 18 16:13:48 <kerio> what's the purpose of mount-opts-override?
May 18 16:14:07 <Pali> mount-opts comes from DEB package
May 18 16:14:09 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05: i can offer a reasonable amount of web hosting
May 18 16:14:15 <Pali> so it will be overwritten after other update
May 18 16:14:17 <kerio> Pali: so? it's a config file
May 18 16:14:22 <kerio> you get asked for overwriting
May 18 16:14:23 <Pali> and we have HAM
May 18 16:14:29 <kerio> ...oh right
May 18 16:14:34 <Pali> which do not ask...
May 18 16:16:08 <kerio> Pali: nodiratime is implied by noatime
May 18 16:16:24 <Pali> options come from nokia
May 18 16:16:54 <kerio> yeah
May 18 16:17:02 <kerio> my point, really
May 18 16:18:17 <kerio> i love the "nodev,nosuid" on vfat
May 18 16:21:41 <jaska> heh
May 18 16:22:37 <kerio> welp, here goes nothing
May 18 16:22:39 <kerio> (rebooting)
May 18 16:24:01 <kerio> nope.jpg
May 18 16:24:20 <kerio> Pali: halp
May 18 16:25:20 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
May 18 16:25:49 <kerio> i /think/ it can't mount /home
May 18 16:28:26 <Pali> kerio, and what you did?
May 18 16:28:43 <kerio> so far, nothing
May 18 16:28:49 <kerio> and there's nothing in /var/log
May 18 16:42:50 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
May 18 18:55:17 * Wizzup is happy with external keyboard and mouse support; works like a charm with my virtual input devices :-)
May 18 18:55:41 <Wizzup> This command gives me both an external keyboard and mouse on my n900: ./input-read -CD /dev/input/event5 /dev/input/event7  | ssh root@nokia-n900 uinput-mapper/input-create -C 
May 18 19:05:26 <DocScrutinizer05> wow
May 18 19:05:38 <DocScrutinizer05> USB?
May 18 19:06:08 <Wizzup> Well, it's USB on my netbook. Then I read the input devices on my netbook and forward the events over ssh (marshalled) and create identical devices with uinput on the n900
May 18 19:06:08 <Apic> WHAT!
May 18 19:06:17 * DocScrutinizer05 always loves to hear somebody making good use of USB hostmode
May 18 19:06:27 <Wizzup> No, it's not USB hostmode. :-) 
May 18 19:06:30 <DocScrutinizer05> UGH!
May 18 19:06:52 <Wizzup> I will play more with that when I place the microusb AB connector on my n900 with broken usb
May 18 19:07:05 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
May 18 19:07:30 <Wizzup> I'm using this program I wrote: http://hetgrotebos.org/wiki/uinput-mapper (it is actually pretty nice for input redirections)
May 18 19:08:31 <Wizzup> More practical, perhaps, you can do the inverse
May 18 19:08:39 <Wizzup> (clone the n900 touchscreen to your netbook, and use it as input there)
May 18 19:08:47 <Wizzup> over wifi
May 18 19:12:33 <Wizzup> The only problem is making sure that you don't click on too many things on the n900 X in the process ;-)
May 18 19:16:59 <kerio> Wizzup: does it perform significantly better than vnc
May 18 19:17:00 <kerio> ?
May 18 19:17:57 <Wizzup> kerio: well, in this case, no display/screen is forwarded
May 18 19:27:05 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: sounds like a mad useful program
May 18 19:27:16 <kerio> indeed
May 18 19:28:02 <DocScrutinizer05> I always wondered how to mount or open devices on remote machines locally
May 18 19:30:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ooooh, and it's python :3
May 18 19:31:55 <DocScrutinizer05> how's thruput?
May 18 19:32:04 <DocScrutinizer05> what about camera devices?
May 18 19:32:59 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd love to mount the camera of N900-a to N900-b to have a wireless remote camera
May 18 19:35:06 <DocScrutinizer05> well, probably it's still just for *input* devices, right?
May 18 19:53:35 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: I don't know about camera devices, it's probably a bit harder, but it should be possible, but not with uinput-mapper
May 18 19:54:07 <Wizzup> But yeah, this is for input devices only. Maybe I can extend the idea but I would have to think about it
May 18 19:54:32 <Wizzup> and yeah, it's python now. :-) was C before, but I switched to python once a basic concept worked
May 18 20:26:07 <DocScrutinizer05> seems a good starting point for my kbd/mouse versatile macro driver
May 18 20:27:22 <Wizzup> You can also just program uinput directly with it, I think
May 18 20:27:32 <Wizzup> but I'll be working on it more in the next few weeks (documentation etc)
May 18 22:44:39 <Sc0rpius> I wonder if promoting to extras-testing still works?
May 18 22:44:50 <Sc0rpius> I mean I can click on the "promote package" but I wonder if it'll ever be promoted
May 19 01:35:15 <dr1fter> are the skeiron repositories very slow, or is something wrong on my end?
May 19 01:41:56 <Sc0rpius> why don't you use official repositories?
May 19 01:44:50 <dr1fter> Sc0rpius: i just found out they came back up, but i heard they were slow, too
May 19 01:44:59 <dr1fter> it looks like it's my phone
May 19 01:45:28 <dr1fter> my computer is downloading from skeiron just fine, but my phone is downloading the repos very slow
May 19 01:45:33 <dr1fter> both maemo and skeiron
May 19 01:46:07 <dr1fter> i mean slooow. 2 days for a 41 MB download
May 19 01:46:25 <dr1fter> and it always fails before it's finished
May 19 01:46:44 <AndrewX192> speaking of slow repositories, I'm getting 22kB/s from ftp.us.debian.org in my chroot
May 19 01:46:50 <Sc0rpius> they are way better than when Nokia had them
May 19 01:47:00 <Sc0rpius> but I'm getting very good speeds with repositories right now
May 19 01:47:05 <dr1fter> no, i'm getting 250 B/s
May 19 01:47:12 <Sc0rpius> that's crazy.
May 19 01:47:16 <dr1fter> it's not just apt, it's wget also
May 19 01:47:20 <Sc0rpius> at least I get 140 KB/sec
May 19 01:47:31 <dr1fter> my computer is 1000x faster at 250 Kb/s
May 19 01:47:37 <Sc0rpius> weird.
May 19 01:48:47 <dr1fter> my internet seems to be fine otherwise
May 19 01:48:59 <dr1fter> on my phone
May 19 01:49:25 <dr1fter> let me make sure again
May 19 01:50:18 <dr1fter> yeah, even the browser app is slow for skeiron
May 19 01:52:08 <dr1fter> files from other sites download just fine
May 19 01:54:07 <dr1fter> confirmed download is impossibly slow from repository.maemo.org, too, even through browser
May 19 02:00:02 <dr1fter> it's happening with deb files from other sites like debian.org too
May 19 02:00:11 <dr1fter> via http and ftp
May 19 02:00:26 <dr1fter> so it seems to only affect deb file downloads
May 19 02:00:59 <dr1fter> you wouldn't think it could be malware on an n900, do you?
May 19 02:55:38 <Addison> To private message someone, the correct format is, "/msg person Comment", correct?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 19 02:59:58 2013