**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 24 02:59:58 2013
May 24 03:50:57 <Snafu777> Well, glad to see the room is hoppin tonight
May 24 05:32:45 <Raimu> Hey, random n900 camera app question.
May 24 05:34:38 <Raimu> Is there a way to enable the camera flash and video recording so that the flash provides a small floodlight for the recording?
May 24 05:35:08 <Raimu> I noticed my spouse's Android camera has that feat and thought it was neat.
May 24 05:55:35 <kerio> Raimu: with nicocam, press t
May 24 05:55:43 <kerio> for "torch", i guess
May 24 05:56:09 <Raimu> Hehey, thanks! Somehow I'd totally missed that.
May 24 07:58:39 <Apic> A wonderful good Morning on this splendid Prickle-Prickle.
May 24 09:06:04 <teotwaki> anyone remember that article, a few years back, about an IT guy who worked for some mafia?
May 24 09:12:49 <divVerent> stupid but possibly fun Maemo question...
May 24 09:12:59 <divVerent> is it possible to leave USB mass storage mode without unplugging the USB cable?
May 24 09:13:02 <divVerent> (to go back to charging only)
May 24 09:14:17 <divVerent> and if it is possible (I would guess it is, if necessry, by unloading this USB storage provider module then moutning the filesystems again by this *-mmc-*.sh script)
May 24 09:14:24 <divVerent> why isn't it offered from the status menu2~?
May 24 09:16:04 <sixwheeledbeast> divVerent: can you not just eject (unmount) it on the computer?
May 24 09:16:22 <divVerent> sixwheeledbeast: I did
May 24 09:16:26 <divVerent> but then the N900 stll doesn't mount it
May 24 09:16:32 <divVerent> and it is right there - I might want to mount it again
May 24 09:16:40 <freemangordon_> divVerent: rmmod g_file_storage
May 24 09:16:54 <divVerent> freemangordon_: that was my idea, but it probably doesn't notify the status applet right
May 24 09:17:06 <freemangordon> divVerent: it does
May 24 09:17:14 <divVerent> and it then automatically mounts everythign again?
May 24 09:17:19 <freemangordon> no
May 24 09:17:27 <freemangordon> you're asked
May 24 09:17:37 <divVerent> but ok
May 24 09:17:37 <freemangordon> well, at least you should be asked
May 24 09:17:39 <divVerent> so all of this is possible
May 24 09:17:50 <freemangordon> if I read you question right, yes
May 24 09:17:52 <divVerent> why doesn't the status menu offer it?
May 24 09:18:01 <freemangordon> NFC
May 24 09:18:23 <freemangordon> divVerent: write a replacement, we'll include it in CSSU :p
May 24 09:18:32 <divVerent> oh, this part is still closed source
May 24 09:19:45 <divVerent> ok, this rmmod command was not wise to do :)
May 24 09:19:54 <divVerent> it from then on also didn'rt detect plugging in USB any more
May 24 09:20:08 <divVerent> but that was to be expected, that something like this would happen when the system services don't know about it properly
May 24 09:20:36 <divVerent> so possibly a wiser way to do this would be to somehow fake the USB unplug notification (I bet this works by dbus, like everything else on Maemo)
May 24 09:28:33 <freemangordon> divVerent: just do insmod after that
May 24 09:29:04 <freemangordon> divVerent: see the parameters in osso-usb-enable.sh (or whatever was it called)
May 24 09:35:21 <divVerent> ah, that was the script name
May 24 09:35:45 <divVerent> one of the osso scripts :)
May 24 09:35:49 <freemangordon> divVerent: iirc it is in /usr/sbin
May 24 09:37:04 <sixwheeledbeast> /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh
May 24 09:37:24 <divVerent> ah, yes
May 24 09:37:32 <divVerent> it tells the module to remove the USB devices
May 24 09:44:28 <freemangordon> sixwheeledbeast: thedead1440: both of you are councilors, ain't?
May 24 09:44:50 <thedead1440> freemangordon: yes i'm for MCC and 6wheeled is for HFC
May 24 09:45:18 <sixwheeledbeast> ^^^
May 24 09:45:22 <freemangordon> ok. I need some "official" to take it from here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1345746&postcount=1214
May 24 09:46:11 <freemangordon> at least we need that discussed first, beforo contacting Ittiam again
May 24 09:47:26 <freemangordon> If the project "Porting Ittiam HD codecs to N900" kicks, we'll have to have agreement inside the community that we want to do it
May 24 09:47:39 <freemangordon> and some fundraising should be done
May 24 09:48:00 <sixwheeledbeast> Bring it up in #maemo-meeting, I may not be available again. Due to RL plus internet intermittent issues. Only just catching up on logs of last week.
May 24 09:48:04 <thedead1440> freemangordon: you have the best technical knowledge of those codecs so i think during today's council meeting you can bring this up for a council response
May 24 09:48:34 <freemangordon> unfortunately I'll be travelling by the time of the meeting
May 24 09:49:01 <freemangordon> that is why I am contacting you now :)
May 24 09:49:13 <thedead1440> ok i'll bring it up during council meeting then
May 24 09:49:17 <freemangordon> to include that as a topic in today's meeting 
May 24 09:49:19 <freemangordon> yep
May 24 09:49:33 <merlin1991> I might be able to be around
May 24 09:50:04 <freemangordon> i guess we'll need some poll on TMO, as if it turns out only 5 people are interested... ;)
May 24 09:50:47 <thedead1440> freemangordon: polls don't get that many votes; let council come up with a response and when it comes to dollars and cents interested people will raise their voices via their wallets
May 24 09:51:36 <freemangordon> ok, I am fine either ways
May 24 10:05:01 <freemangordon> thedead1440: BTW what has happened with Bod elections?
May 24 10:12:30 <DocScrutinizer51> freemangordon: please register and id with nickserv!
May 24 10:12:48 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: how to do that?
May 24 10:12:53 <freemangordon> google?
May 24 10:13:05 <DocScrutinizer51> /msg nickserv help
May 24 10:13:23 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer51: ok. though I don't have time now
May 24 10:13:40 <DocScrutinizer51> it's a 60s job
May 24 10:14:06 <DocScrutinizer51> /msg nickserv help register
May 24 10:44:29 <ShadowJK> measured by irc users, jolla is now more alive than #maemo ;p
May 24 10:56:31 <sixwheeledbeast> more people in room != "more active".
May 24 10:59:25 <ruskie> hehe
May 24 10:59:44 <ruskie> I wonder how soon the jolla devices will be rooted and all that
May 24 11:25:41 <ShadowJK> I hope it's not needed
May 24 11:27:00 <ShadowJK> by that I mean I hope it's like Maemo: download root
May 24 11:27:06 <ShadowJK> from appstore
May 24 11:50:52 <divVerent> 13:27:00         ShadowJK | by that I mean I hope it's like Maemo: download root
May 24 11:50:54 <divVerent> 13:27:06         ShadowJK | from appstore
May 24 11:51:07 <divVerent> it will still have aegis, a quite effective sandbox/binary signing system
May 24 11:51:08 <sixwheeledbeast> I'd hope it was better than maemo
May 24 11:51:17 <divVerent> however, the big question is - is root enough for what I would do EVEN with aegis active
May 24 11:51:20 <divVerent> it may be just all I need
May 24 11:51:34 <divVerent> I mean, on Maemo, I wouldn't really need root for what I do
May 24 11:51:42 <divVerent> apart from the command line apt-get interface I don't do much as root
May 24 11:51:57 <divVerent> and the hack to disable IPv6 due to a bug in cutetube to be fixed soon :)
May 24 11:52:02 <Wizzup> for accessing certain /dev/ files etci t is nice
May 24 11:52:21 <divVerent> nice but not necessary for productive use
May 24 11:52:55 <divVerent> to compare, on iOS a jailbreak is necessary for productive use (to be able to share data between apps), too bad it turns off the sandboxing entirely
May 24 11:53:26 <divVerent> on Android, one can live pretty well without rooting it, as one STILL has a command shell, can run one's own code (via third party app installation)
May 24 11:53:39 <divVerent> and apps can share data via e.g. the SD card area
May 24 11:54:17 <divVerent> so whether that Jolla thing will be actually useful without rooting is not known yet :)
May 24 11:54:35 <Wizzup> divVerent: well, for some programs /dev/ access is required...
May 24 11:54:39 <divVerent> what I also need is SOME good file synchronization method over WLAN usable by Linux
May 24 11:54:45 <Wizzup> divVerent: sshfs?
May 24 11:54:46 <divVerent> like, ssh
May 24 11:54:51 <Wizzup> it'll run ssh obviously
May 24 11:54:52 <divVerent> yes, but for that you need a sshd
May 24 11:54:59 <Wizzup> Why would it not?
May 24 11:55:00 <divVerent> and be able to log in as a user
May 24 11:55:06 <divVerent> that's not supported on iPhone
May 24 11:55:17 <Wizzup> iPhone doesn't use Mer...
May 24 11:55:19 <divVerent> sure
May 24 11:55:21 <divVerent> thing is
May 24 11:55:25 <divVerent> how hardened IS that jolla thing
May 24 11:55:31 <divVerent> that is still to be found out, or even, to be decided
May 24 11:55:54 <divVerent> they, as the (now) developer, can choose to include thsi functionality or not
May 24 11:55:57 <divVerent> also, I need rsync too :)
May 24 11:56:05 <divVerent> ideally, that is
May 24 11:56:09 <divVerent> on Maemo it all is available
May 24 11:56:28 <divVerent> if there is no way to make a rsync binary work (on ANdroid there is, if needed, by self built apk)
May 24 11:56:29 <Wizzup> divVerent: I'm not sure what you're rambling on about. I doubt this will be much of a problem.
May 24 11:56:35 <divVerent> one can still use sshfs + a local rsync run
May 24 11:56:41 <divVerent> Wizzup: it just isn't known yet
May 24 11:56:46 <divVerent> Jolla keeps pretty quiet about details
May 24 11:56:52 <Wizzup> They use Mer.
May 24 11:57:00 <divVerent> but they can screw it up any way they want
May 24 11:57:04 <divVerent> they also use Aegis to lock it down
May 24 11:57:11 <divVerent> so their "lockdown" concept may just not allow SSH
May 24 11:57:11 <Wizzup> yes, and the world may explode any second
May 24 11:57:25 <divVerent> thing is, Apple makes such a locked down device and is successful
May 24 11:57:30 <jaska> the world exploding is preferable to suffering with aegis
May 24 11:57:39 <divVerent> thing is, WOULD I suffer with aegis :)
May 24 11:57:50 <divVerent> it all depends on how well the rest works for my purposes
May 24 11:57:57 <divVerent> if the device is locked down, I can't go beyond what the vendor intended
May 24 11:58:45 <divVerent> unrooted Android is e..g open enough for my purposes
May 24 11:58:48 <Wizzup> I imagine there would certainly be a way around it. And that's all you can wonder.
May 24 11:59:42 <divVerent> I would prefer it without needing a way "around it"
May 24 11:59:49 <divVerent> as these "ways around it" tend to come with disadvantages
May 24 11:59:58 <divVerent> e.g. if you jailbreak iOS, you also lose app sandboxing, which is quite good to have
May 24 12:00:08 <divVerent> I would actually WANT app sandboxing, BUT I'd like to have control over it
May 24 12:00:11 <divVerent> like on Blackberry :)
May 24 12:00:42 <divVerent> Android has a pretty weak sandbox concept (due to which any app can read your photos, like it or not)
May 24 12:01:03 <divVerent> because SD card data is not protected in any way
May 24 12:01:13 <divVerent> (fixable if you have root, obviously)
May 24 12:01:37 <divVerent> actually, MAYBE reformatting the SD card with ext3 and setting proper file system ACLs on the root node would suffice :)
May 24 12:02:13 <divVerent> to implement a rule like "only the creator of a folder can use it unless administrator sets the ACLs otherwise"
May 24 12:02:47 <divVerent> I will soon have an Android device and then try out these things to lock it down a bit further
May 24 12:03:05 <Wizzup> care to link to this aegis project?
May 24 12:03:10 <Wizzup> google only turns up games.
May 24 12:06:21 <divVerent> Wizzup: either scroll up here, it gets mentioned often
May 24 12:06:29 <divVerent> or look for aegis on github, there is a derived project there
May 24 12:06:42 <divVerent> basically, it is yet another executable sandbox
May 24 12:06:48 <divVerent> and the claim is that Nokia did it right, as opposed to Apple
May 24 12:08:22 <divVerent> one thing they do that Apple does not is on-boot integrity checking of startup related files
May 24 12:08:39 <divVerent> so even if you can break it, it'd be quite challenging to make the "jailbreak" permanent
May 24 12:08:53 <rikanee> divVerent: fyi, the entire boot chain on iOS devices is signed
May 24 12:09:06 <divVerent> rikanee: apparently, not completely
May 24 12:09:09 <divVerent> but ok, then Apple tried the same
May 24 12:09:24 <divVerent> apparently, because how else do jailbreaks get stored persistently? :)
May 24 12:09:34 <divVerent> kernel is signed, boot loader is read only
May 24 12:09:41 <divVerent> and kernel does binary verification on all executables
May 24 12:10:13 <rikanee> divVerent: AMFI is patched to ignore those checks either through misplaced binaries, or misplaced executables
May 24 12:10:23 <rikanee> *configuration
May 24 12:10:55 <Wizzup> I just don't know why you're doubting the people behind Jolla, I mean, sure, I have my doubt about the company as a whole as well. But I don't doubt that they will make an open device.
May 24 12:11:30 <divVerent> Wizzup: there has been some interview with the CEO that basically said that the device will be locked down, BUT Jolla will also release a "developer version"
May 24 12:11:53 <divVerent> and I would expect this developer version to be quite a lot more expensive than the normal one
May 24 12:12:41 <Wizzup> Why do you expect it to be?
May 24 12:12:47 <rikanee> divVerent: that'd harbor negative attention from Maemo and MeeGo users though.
May 24 12:14:13 <rikanee> divVerent: also, regarding sandboxing, I agree that Android did it right, but it didn't go far enough.
May 24 12:14:44 <rikanee> iOS makes apps write all their data to their own private folder, Android should enforce that too
May 24 12:15:21 <rikanee> data shared with other apps e.g. photos, music, etc. should be exposed via API to standard locations in /sdcard.
May 24 12:17:29 <divVerent> rikanee: just read about AMFI...
May 24 12:17:38 <divVerent> so the main issue is that launchd.conf is not integrity checked :)
May 24 12:17:54 <divVerent> together with a symlink traversal issue in unpacking backups
May 24 12:18:01 <divVerent> damn, the symlink issue I almost found before...
May 24 12:18:09 <divVerent> used it to browse the iPhone FS via a FTP server app
May 24 12:18:11 <rikanee> divVerent: technically, only binaries are checked
May 24 12:18:20 <divVerent> by putting a ../../../../../ symlink into an app's Documents folder
May 24 12:18:34 <divVerent> I should have tried making a zip file that ALSO has a symlinkname/foo file :)
May 24 12:18:55 <divVerent> rikanee: which is the mistake :)
May 24 12:19:05 <divVerent> one thing Aegis does extra is some on-boot verification of most /etc stuff
May 24 12:19:21 <rikanee> divVerent: it'd be too CPU-intensive to sum and sign every single file, so Apple depends on the fact that binaries are normally not touched and touchable by anything
May 24 12:20:15 <rikanee> given that all text files aren't signed, the hilarious part of the evasi0n jailbreak was that it used a shell script to remount / as rw
May 24 12:20:34 <divVerent> haha, next iOS bug was that signing only signs text... wouldn't have expected Apple to be THAT clueless
May 24 12:20:52 <divVerent> rikanee: I considered that the least interesting part
May 24 12:20:54 <divVerent> :)
May 24 12:21:02 <divVerent> as it shows no OS flaw
May 24 12:21:29 <divVerent> if I had coded binary signing, I probably would have made it verify the executable header AND all sections except for the signature section
May 24 12:21:54 <divVerent> just signing .text... I guess I now know how to crack ads out of iOS apps :)
May 24 12:22:19 <divVerent> (ok, my previous way was to block the ad servers on my DNS)
May 24 12:24:26 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: 
May 24 12:24:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ~aegis
May 24 12:24:30 <infobot> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif
May 24 12:25:04 <DocScrutinizer05> divVerent: last info is "the recent SDK for sailfish has NO aegis-alike functionality"
May 24 12:25:19 <divVerent> well, the SDK doesn't necessarily need to have it
May 24 12:25:27 <divVerent> if signing is performed when uploading an app to the "store"
May 24 12:25:39 <divVerent> but, we'll see in the end
May 24 12:25:46 <divVerent> it may even be open enough without any rooting/jailbreaking
May 24 12:25:46 <DocScrutinizer05> yes it does, if you want to write apps that actually work on the final platform
May 24 12:26:02 <divVerent> only if these apps use aegisfs
May 24 12:26:10 <divVerent> i.e. store/use secret data
May 24 12:26:11 <DocScrutinizer05> no
May 24 12:26:18 <divVerent> otherwise, they'd be signed when you upload them
May 24 12:26:21 <divVerent> or not?
May 24 12:26:31 <rikanee> a security platform on the kernel can work with the OS to redirect calls transparently.
May 24 12:26:39 <DocScrutinizer05> that's the whole point of this shit that you need permissions/tokens for about everything you do
May 24 12:26:49 <divVerent> right, THAT part can not be tested then
May 24 12:26:55 <divVerent> that is, if you asked for all necessary permissions
May 24 12:27:04 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: thanks, I'm always interested in the low-level side of sandboxes
May 24 12:27:25 <divVerent> but in the end we'll see
May 24 12:27:31 <divVerent> it MAY even be open enough without even root
May 24 12:27:37 <rikanee> divVerent: actually, another approach would be to discard asking for permissions altogether, and simply disallow certain calls/redirect filesystem access on the fly
May 24 12:27:50 <divVerent> rikanee: which is what iOS does
May 24 12:28:12 <divVerent> that you see apps asking for permission before reading your photos is only a requirement of the store, but not technically enforced
May 24 12:28:17 <divVerent> (enforced by review only, that is)
May 24 12:29:16 <rikanee> divVerent: it'd be like SELinux, if implemented
May 24 12:29:16 <divVerent> they of course use some "red flags" in the review process, i.e. the permission dialog is shown by a known API, and the images can only be accessed via another API
May 24 12:29:31 <divVerent> making it quite straightforward to see if an app needs to be tested for doing this right or not
May 24 12:29:42 <divVerent> if it doesn't use the image retrieval API, nobody will test if a dialog pops up
May 24 12:30:04 <divVerent> rikanee: with the one exception of who's under control :)
May 24 16:34:20 <Wizzup> I giggled at the [X] I am a spammer
May 24 16:38:13 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: okay, made the garage account, have initial tgz and other files made with py2deb, now I'll wait for my account to be allowed to upload to extras-devel :-) 
May 24 18:05:18 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
May 24 18:05:18 <infobot> :), DocScrutinizer51
May 24 21:45:30 <darodi> hi guys
May 24 21:46:20 <darodi> i was planning to migrate from multiboot to u-boot... then i read this http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1344957&postcount=2
May 24 21:46:37 <darodi> It's totaly useless when booted from u-boot (no wifi, battery meter, charging...)
May 24 21:47:53 <darodi> is it true? any one with nitroid switched to uboot here?
May 24 22:28:34 <DocScrutinizer05> darodi: 
May 24 22:28:38 <DocScrutinizer05> >>
May 24 22:28:40 <DocScrutinizer05> To instal kernel you have to:
May 24 22:28:41 <DocScrutinizer05> mount /home /and
May 24 22:28:43 <DocScrutinizer05> first
May 24 22:28:45 <DocScrutinizer05> <<
May 24 22:29:41 <DocScrutinizer05> no more to say. All that stuff looks completely gibberish to me. I don't think I could install anything useful following those instructions, and I usually know my way around unix/linux
May 24 22:32:09 <DocScrutinizer05> alas I can't help about your original question, since I never touched nitdroid - sorry. Installing uBoot on N900 is not that hard, it even tries to convert/migrate existing multiboot/bootmenu entries
May 24 22:38:58 <DocScrutinizer05> God gracious, this stuff makes my eyes bleed!
May 24 22:39:12 <DocScrutinizer05> bzip2 -d N12_UMay.tar.bz2 cd /
May 24 22:39:24 <DocScrutinizer05> mount /home /and
May 24 22:40:04 <DocScrutinizer05> cd /and
May 24 22:40:36 <DocScrutinizer05> despite the whole thing is tagged "PHP code:" I think they really mean it
May 24 22:41:18 <DocScrutinizer05> the bzip and mount parameters make no sense to me
May 24 22:41:42 <DocScrutinizer05> except somebody did a damn good job to obfuscate stuff
May 24 22:42:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I wouldn't hope bzip2 takes a COMMAND "cd" as parameter
May 24 22:43:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and I never heard of a device /and you could mount to /home, for whatever purpose
May 24 22:43:41 <DocScrutinizer05> if that's a bindmount that it should need more parameters
May 24 22:43:52 <DocScrutinizer05> at least --bind
May 24 22:45:30 <DocScrutinizer05> even worse, mount syntax is >>mount [-fnrsvw] [-t vfstype] [-o options] device dir<< so the device was /home which for sure is no device on any linux I ever seen
May 24 22:46:03 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05: perhaps that's why people have been filling up their rootfses?
May 24 22:46:29 <DocScrutinizer05> lol, I can't even figure what might happen when trying to follow that instruction
May 24 22:47:31 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, have a look at this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1346033#post1346033 for a laugh or a cry, depending on your mood
May 24 22:51:03 <DocScrutinizer05> of course "cd" *might* be a filename for bzip2, but honestly who names his file "cd" ?
May 24 22:51:28 <rikanee> sigh, that entire thread is just sad.
May 24 22:51:31 <rikanee> ~rtfm
May 24 22:51:31 <infobot> from memory, rtfm is Read The F*cking Manual (TM). It is a suggestion to do your homework before posting a question. Sometimes used as RTFM $SPECIFIC_MANUAL to refer to a specific source of information. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM
May 24 22:51:35 <DocScrutinizer05> or it is a option parameter to bzip2 with a typo: -cd
May 24 22:52:26 <DocScrutinizer05> but then I'm afraid user wouldn't have any joy in watching the decompressed output spamming his stdout
May 24 22:53:15 <DocScrutinizer05> only explanation is that a newline is missing, but then the bzip2 cmd makes no sense without parameters
May 24 22:53:48 <DocScrutinizer05> oooor the whole shit is some extremely nifty PHP code indeed, that I simply fail to grok
May 24 22:54:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
May 24 22:54:37 <DocScrutinizer05> in te end I'd fail to enter the green "/" anyway X-D
May 24 22:54:38 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05: they simply forgot to include exec();
May 24 22:54:41 <rikanee> ;)
May 24 22:57:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ohmy android. Too complicated for me ;-P
May 24 22:58:50 <darodi> mount /home /and is just a bind as you say ...never seen that syntax before
May 24 23:01:46 <darodi> i think i'll just remove nitdroid and go for uboot. i'm using maemo 99% of the time and just reboot to nitdroid when my wife desesperately needs to play a stupid game :P
May 24 23:03:41 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah, maybe get her a cheap droidfon
May 24 23:04:42 <DocScrutinizer05> darodi: make sure you boot to maemo, so multiboot cleans up its shit
May 24 23:05:12 <darodi> well... she also has a n900 with a gamegripper but pollutes mine with nitdroid :))
May 24 23:05:13 <DocScrutinizer05> (proper kernel modules and kernel flashed - yes, multiboot *flashes* kernel on each boot)
May 24 23:05:42 <DocScrutinizer05> then you should have no problems installing most recent uBoot
May 24 23:06:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and if you're lucky, uBoot will be able to boot into android on uSD out of the box
May 24 23:07:03 <DocScrutinizer05> if not, I think the tweaks needed to uBoot config files and maybe android fs on uSD are minimal
May 24 23:08:07 <DocScrutinizer05> you might need to get the kernel uimage of android kernel and put it somewhere from where uBoot can load it
May 24 23:14:22 <darodi> are there pre-made uimage already or do i need to convert the vmlinuz kernel to uimage?
May 24 23:14:39 <darodi> i'll have a look in the nitdroid forums
May 24 23:23:14 <DocScrutinizer05> there are pre-built uimages for about everything
May 24 23:24:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ask Pali, he should know a lot more about all that stuff - after all he's maintainer of uBoot
May 24 23:24:21 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, lemme try sth...
May 24 23:24:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ~uboot
May 24 23:24:24 <infobot> N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files
May 24 23:25:02 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmpf, thought there might be an URL to a proper wiki/tmo page about uBoot and how-to-install
May 24 23:25:05 <Pali> if you put linux (z)image to /boot or /opt/boot it will be automatically converted to uimage format by u-boot-update-bootmenu
May 24 23:25:16 <DocScrutinizer05> wow
May 24 23:25:25 <Pali> and stored in MyDocs
May 24 23:25:44 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D
May 24 23:25:54 <DocScrutinizer05> scary :->
May 24 23:25:58 <darodi> Pali: thanks for the info
May 24 23:29:00 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: seems Nokia never will fix that signing key issue
May 24 23:29:20 <Pali> did you got any new email?
May 24 23:29:41 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: should we get rip-offs of the Nokia repos and publish a tool to patch the catalogs?
May 24 23:29:45 <DocScrutinizer05> no new mail
May 24 23:30:19 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe even a fiasco image with patched catalogs list
May 24 23:30:42 <DocScrutinizer05> the run our own core repos
May 24 23:30:45 <DocScrutinizer05> then*
May 24 23:30:46 <darodi> Pali: i have cssuthumb and kp 51 in nand right now. should i reboot to omap1 before uninstalling  multiboot?
May 24 23:31:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ohohoh
May 24 23:31:04 <Pali> 15.5 I got email from Mikko that he going to fix it
May 24 23:31:14 <DocScrutinizer05> :-o
May 24 23:31:47 <DocScrutinizer05> darodi: a thumbified system will crash on a non-thumb-enabled kernel
May 24 23:32:10 <darodi> that's what i thought
May 24 23:32:29 <DocScrutinizer05> alas uBoot comes with stock kernel
May 24 23:33:10 <darodi> uhmf
May 24 23:33:12 <DocScrutinizer05> so installing uBoot on a thombified system is quite tricky - you easily end in a reboot loop
May 24 23:34:17 <DocScrutinizer05> you basically have to make sure that your uBoot can boot from a powerkernel uimage before you install uBoot
May 24 23:34:55 <DocScrutinizer05> otherwise you end up with a system with uBoot and stock kernel that can't boot up to fix it any easy way
May 24 23:35:06 <Pali> I will write to Mikko if he is really going to fix it or not
May 24 23:35:25 <DocScrutinizer05> make sure you have the right "To:" ;-)
May 24 23:36:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and maybe add council to CC
May 24 23:36:25 <DocScrutinizer05> for sure council wants to help on that issue
May 25 00:26:58 <darodi> DocScrutinizer05: so... to summarize 
May 25 00:26:58 <darodi> 1. uninstall multiboot 
May 25 00:26:58 <darodi> 2. install uboot 
May 25 00:26:58 <darodi> 3. upgrade kp51 to kp52 
May 25 00:26:58 <darodi> 4. create bootmenu items 
May 25 00:26:58 <darodi> 5. run update boot menu 
May 25 00:26:59 <darodi> 6. reboot
May 25 00:26:59 <darodi> i am right?
May 25 00:27:41 <darodi> 0. backup everything :P
May 25 00:29:22 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, to me that lloks good, but that doesn't mean a thing. I'm no expert
May 25 00:30:06 <DocScrutinizer05> though... upgrade KP nukes uBoot
May 25 00:30:28 <DocScrutinizer05> you need to install KP-uimage
May 25 00:32:47 <darodi> that's what i meant with the point 3
May 25 00:32:48 <darodi> install uimages for kp and create valid bootmenu items
May 25 00:32:52 <DocScrutinizer05> the idea is that uBoot loads different uImages depending on kernel you want to boot. But the one "built-in" kernel that ships with uBoot is a stock maemo kernel that doesn't work with thumb. So you need the kp52-uimage in place before you install uBoot
May 25 00:33:10 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
May 25 00:34:55 <DocScrutinizer05> s/install/flash/
May 25 00:35:18 <darodi> I guess I found something to do tomorrow
May 25 00:48:46 <darodi> thanks again DocScrutinizer05 
May 25 00:48:46 <darodi> good night every one
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