**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 30 03:00:00 2013 May 30 03:00:14 what margin of saftey does the n900 have, I'm not chancing it, cause it needs to be a cell phone first May 30 03:00:24 And less life, yes. May 30 03:00:31 NITs are pretty much obsolete; sadly, there's nothing better than N900 :/ May 30 03:00:33 robbiethe1st, have you gotten flash 10.1 to work May 30 03:00:38 If it's /hot/ to the touch, you might want to back off May 30 03:00:42 I'm not talking about install, but actually work, like load youtube and play May 30 03:00:46 GI_Jack: if you want a cell phone, you don't want a NIT May 30 03:01:01 Luke-Jr, no, I want an n900 with modern specs May 30 03:01:01 GI_Jack, I use the stock flash with a hack that makes it look like a later version May 30 03:01:13 GI_Jack: N900 is not a phone, and will disappoint you if you want a phone May 30 03:01:14 works smoothly and plays youtube at minimum quality May 30 03:01:25 I am not aware of a single person who wanted a phone, bought N900, and liked it. May 30 03:01:42 Luke-Jr, actually no, other than its weight, and thickness its actually a pretty good phone May 30 03:02:08 … May 30 03:02:13 the voice quality is great, and text messaging is slick May 30 03:02:20 frals did a good enough job with mms May 30 03:02:36 Ok, I guess you're the single person exception, if you're actually using it as a phone :/ May 30 03:03:02 yes, actually using it as a phone, and it makes a passing grade mp3 player May 30 03:03:50 I'm just wondering if the community could get together and make a LGPL or BSD licensed opus/flac/ogg hardware codec and get everyone to start using it in all handhelds that work as music players May 30 03:04:47 same with a twofish/serpet/AES SHA/MD6 crypto chip May 30 03:05:29 and you can instant message and VOIP just as easily as txt/cell call May 30 03:05:35 which is really nice, and there is a libpurple backend May 30 03:06:30 media player could have been a little better, but it syncs with rhythmbox without pulling TOO many teeth, and plays music May 30 03:09:51 anybody who knows where I can find a broken N900 not so expensive? May 30 03:10:15 ebay May 30 03:22:39 Yup May 30 03:22:50 What sort of broken are you looking for? May 30 03:27:24 robbiethe1st: well. remembering my spare parts I don't have enough to put together a working n900, so I don't think I need a broken N900 anyway. May 30 03:28:50 ah May 30 03:29:14 I've got a spare lying around, I bought cheap - works, broken usb and cell modem doesn't. May 30 03:30:58 ahh okay. mine have broken usb too and the screen cable is also damaged :/ I'm thinking of buying a used one just as a toy. May 30 03:33:28 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-OEM-Flat-Flex-Cable-Connector-Ribbon-Nokia-N900-w-Front-Camera-USA-/170718373929?pt=US_Cell_Phone_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item27bf9ba829 May 30 03:33:34 Cable, $15 May 30 03:33:46 with a set of small screw drivers, not hard to install May 30 03:35:50 thx, i'll look at it. May 30 03:36:44 I replaced a screen on mine, the hard part there was getting the new screen in without dust May 30 03:36:52 cable's behind the screen though, so even easier May 30 03:47:14 okay. looks good :) May 30 03:48:08 thanl you. May 30 07:07:51 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/30/samsung_build_randd_finland_nokia/ May 30 07:13:31 http://www.gizmag.com/micro-phone-gsm-phone-locator/27707/ May 30 09:13:33 I am thinking of switching back to Symbian. Please convince me otherwise. May 30 09:14:47 why? May 30 09:15:05 Because as a phone, the n900 sucks a mile long dick. May 30 09:15:14 I am so sick of missing phone calls. May 30 09:15:32 Because the caller screen does not see fit to even appear. May 30 09:16:01 of course. N900 isn't a phone. May 30 09:16:14 although I've never missed a call ringing on it unless I was out of range May 30 09:17:08 I've had only minor problems using it as a phone, the most prominent one being hildon-home etc getting 'stuck' so that every time you unlock the screen it takes a good few seconds to stop hogging cpu and you can do something, killing it every now and then helps but it's irritating if it happens when a call comes in, the ringtone will play but there's nothing you can do until it's ready May 30 09:18:18 and once it happened when I was expecting UPS to deliver a package, I couldn't answer the damn call (from unknown number, of course) so delivery was delayed by a week May 30 09:24:20 for me the n900 works ok as phone May 30 09:24:42 only reason I ever missed calls was vibration not strong enough May 30 09:26:55 That is a good example. On many occasions I have not even had a notification of an incoming call. Just a yellow ballon telling me I missed a call. FFS WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT. May 30 09:28:54 * jooles was of the opinion that whatever issues maemo has, Symbian 6 was worse :/ May 30 09:30:07 I never missed a telephone call on symbian. May 30 09:34:30 maybe the caller ended the call before n900 had managed to start playing ringtone May 30 09:34:32 :) May 30 09:35:58 but anyway I think for telephone use an old and durable nokia works just great, personally I use the n900 as a mobile terminal and calls/sms constitute just a tiny percentage of my use so it has worked fine in that respect May 30 09:36:25 Bring back the 3310, eh? :) May 30 09:37:47 I actually dumpster dived an E70 from work, I could get a new smartphone if I just asked but for work I need just reliable calls and stuff so it works great and also has a qwerty so in case n900 battery runs out or something I can use it for ssh in a pinch May 30 09:38:27 (after getting used to n900 keyboard the e70 feels a bit spongy and weird, also some symbols are more tedious to type) May 30 09:39:38 heh, actually the bag I dived had about 35 or so phones of which 20+ worked after just replacing battery, there were also a few 3310s :) May 30 09:41:48 all the old phones that hadn't been physically mangled worked, there were a few newer ones like e63 and some other slider-qwerty model and a similar one without the keyboard, they all turned on but didn't display anything on screen May 30 09:42:15 was a shame because the e63 was in mint condition otherwise May 30 09:42:24 nice May 30 09:42:39 Have you tried re-flashing it? May 30 09:43:38 nah, I suspect it's a problem with the display and haven't bothered to look, I don't really need the phone myself :) May 30 09:44:17 there were also some working spare batteries so I emptied a few of the basic phones that were working and gave them to people who had use for one May 30 09:44:45 would be nice to get it working though, it's a bit more attractive than the 10 year old ones May 30 09:45:30 What are the insides like? Any obvious damage/activated water indicators? May 30 09:46:10 I haven't opened it since it seemed like I would probably cause cosmetic damage doing so, from outside it seems perfectly fine May 30 09:48:00 That's what makes me wonder if it's water damage though. The indicators are usually in the battery compartment and/or on the battery May 30 09:57:35 well I checked inside it and it seems really clean, no signs of damage in battery connectors or battery May 30 09:58:50 maybe I'll pop the hood May 30 10:01:12 Did you find the water indicator? May 30 10:04:26 the what? May 30 10:04:49 what does it look like? :) May 30 10:05:28 Should be a little white sticker on or near the battery May 30 10:06:11 If it's white, that's good. If there's been water in there it will have gone red May 30 10:07:09 hmm...there's just the biggish sticker with IMEI etc and the battery itself has a hologram, I don't find any discolored regions at least May 30 10:07:30 not sure if the battery is original May 30 10:08:14 It would be a little white square or circle. May 30 10:08:49 unless it's under the info sticker, I can't find it May 30 10:09:55 no red visible anywhere though May 30 10:17:59 Eh, it may have been on the original battery. It's just always the first thing I check with a phone whose history I don't know May 30 10:23:04 I opened it up now, but haven't noticed anything suspicious yet May 30 10:25:14 aww the vibration motor is so tiny May 30 10:45:28 hmm, I never had problems with answering phonecalls on N900, except of accidentally hitting reject button once, when friggin rotation bounced back and forth May 30 10:46:08 ^.^ May 30 10:47:25 DocScrutinizer05: oh, I do remember another phone call issue with the N900 May 30 10:47:28 the phone appo has weird rotation May 30 10:47:37 and sometimes the meaning of the volume buttons reverses when I am "holding it wrong" May 30 10:47:47 as it sometimes toggles orientation during the call, and this reverses the volume buttons May 30 10:48:11 I get massive problems though with inbound SIP calls since I usually am (loccked) on 2G and that, while still establishing call, yields unbearable stutter and delay and dropouts May 30 10:48:16 I have it locked to landscape. It fails to even display the screen. May 30 10:48:26 I put the phone back together, it just seems to start (backlights turn on, a single vibration occurs) then after waiting a while the backlight turns off briefly, then back on, I assume it's just booting but can't see anything May 30 10:48:32 Do not even get me started on SIP. May 30 10:48:44 For a SIP device, the n900 is a colossial piece of shit. May 30 10:48:56 True. May 30 10:49:17 SIP is nicely integrated but the audio is so choppy it is basically worthless. May 30 10:49:21 hmm, actually if I wait for longer it seems the backlight turns on every now and then so not sure if it finished booting properly.. May 30 10:49:27 meh, I always had dialer app locked to portrait May 30 10:49:39 usually works just fine May 30 10:50:15 SIP works excellent when I'm at home on my WLAN May 30 10:50:57 you just have to wait 2s after establishing call, until audio streams properly set up May 30 10:50:59 Then you are the ONLY reported case I have EVER read of SIP working. May 30 10:54:35 hey, I even did SIP phonecalls with N810 from Taipei via my sipgate.de account (and RTP<->POTS gateway) to other german landline and mobile numbers. Worked great, as long as the intercontinental sea cables were not broken or congested (a frequently encountered problem in Taiwan) May 30 10:58:11 I at times have 5 SIP clients logged in here to same account: N810, 2*N900, N950, N9 (and sometimes even twinklephone softphone on PC). And all of them just work, once I allocated a dedicated SIP port do each of them and pinholed that port the router's NAT May 30 11:02:50 many router NATs have a ALG that's more often than not broken and not really working. You should check if your router has an option to disable SIP-ALG (sometimes attributed as VoIP support). draytek-Vigor for example (old ones) neeted telnet to do that: sth like "set system alg off" May 30 11:03:08 needed* May 30 11:05:27 then make sure your SIP provider supports auto-STUN, or you force STUN to enabled and keepalive to REGISTER,60 May 30 11:06:30 I have auto stun on. It is still choppy and completely un-useable. May 30 11:07:29 Don't even get me started on how bad skype is. May 30 11:08:06 host -t SRV _stun._udp.sipgate.de May 30 11:09:58 if your SIP provider is lacking such SRV DNS record, auto-STUN will fail May 30 11:12:42 if your router has symmetric NAT and doesn't allow local loopback (client in LAN talking to itself on the router's public IP) then STUNlib fails to detect the type of NAT May 30 11:13:29 but all that is rather irrelevant for RTP quality May 30 11:15:27 one thing you could try that also helps for RTP sometimes is to set your SIP client device as exposed host, sometimes also (incorrectly) called DMZ May 30 11:16:01 vi__: really? i don't have much of a problem with skype heh May 30 11:16:03 means *every* inbound connection gets directly forwarded to the exposed device May 30 11:17:32 be aware that this does what name implies: it exposes your N900 to the internet, with all the pings and ssh bruteforce pw cracking and whatnot May 30 11:18:10 so you better make sure you don't have too sloppy config of your services May 30 11:18:28 is there even any real active telepathy skype dev? May 30 11:18:37 i know gtalk video chatting no longer works May 30 11:20:52 Macer: for me skype just plain fucking sucks. May 30 11:21:11 vi__: ah i see. i don't really use skype on my n900 May 30 11:21:22 i have cordless phones May 30 11:21:35 with the vonagelike hub that connects to the router May 30 11:21:50 i only use skype as a "home" number May 30 11:22:08 Mrs vi__ tried to skype her mother with the n900. The n900 was worthless. You could barely hear the other person there was soo much choppiness. So she switched to her android tablet. Perfect call. May 30 11:22:08 but i can honestly say it hasn't let me down heh... seems to work well as far as i know May 30 11:22:20 yeah May 30 11:22:36 i'm sure beceause both the n900 and telepathy are old :) May 30 11:22:57 that's usually what happens on abandonware heh May 30 11:22:59 vi__: I suspect your WLAN AP being POS May 30 11:23:32 DocScrutinizer05: i don't. i had teh same problems skyping on my n900 and that was like 2 years ago May 30 11:23:35 Really? WNR3500L running dd-wrt. May 30 11:25:13 either your local router and connection (WLAN) stuff sucks, or your IP does nasty stuf with QoS traffic shaping/priorization May 30 11:25:14 vi__: skype sells the mtx based phones which are similar to vonage phones.. which are usually work with older GE cordless phones May 30 11:25:32 those are the best ones to use if you're just using skype for voice calls May 30 11:26:46 DocScrutinizer05: why can't it be that skype changed the method in which it initiates and xfers the data and maybe the telepathy plugin for the n900 is just ancient and undeveloped? May 30 11:27:15 because others have no problems May 30 11:27:22 plus if his wife used a tablet with a perfect call which most likely uses wifi...? May 30 11:27:27 how would that be the AP? May 30 11:27:56 AP not supporting the PSM that N900 uses May 30 11:28:14 or rather: not *well* supporting May 30 11:28:39 the easy solution to test that would be to test it over wireless May 30 11:28:43 there is about half a dozen of PSM modes and sub-types in use May 30 11:29:00 Is it still possible to get the Maemo 4 SDK and/or scratchbox? May 30 11:29:15 Jooles: should May 30 11:29:43 ~tabletsdev May 30 11:29:44 methinks tabletsdev is http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Tabletsdev May 30 11:30:00 speaking of maemo4 i need to flash my n810 May 30 11:30:02 heh May 30 11:30:50 i found a microsd to minisd adapter! i couldn't believe it May 30 11:30:50 it was at the bottom of a drawer May 30 11:30:59 maybe some links point to nokia.com still, then you need to do a bit of handcrufting the destination URL May 30 11:32:05 Jooles: if you can't find stuff, come back here and holler May 30 11:33:16 DocScrutinizer05 those links are perfect, thanks May 30 11:33:43 Yeah, converting the old tablets-dev.nokia.com links is what I needed May 30 11:33:45 the auth (where you have to type your IMEI or device serial number) might be 'broken' redirecting you to nokia.com May 30 11:34:02 the links on http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo-4-1-diablo-sdk/ are still the old ones May 30 11:34:35 sure, told you we probably missed several links to edit May 30 11:35:50 the data on maemo.org/tabletsdev should be complete. Some files might be a little tricky to get hold of though, via URL May 30 11:36:34 (the m.o/tabletsdev content been stage for akamai server farm under tablets-dev.nokia.com) May 30 11:41:45 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to get a dedicated VM tabletsdev.maemo.org and move the tabletsdev/* stuff from repo to that machine. Thus users should be able to fix complete mess by adding " tablets-dev.nokia.com" to their /etc/hosts May 30 11:42:43 is it possible to connect gsm module of n900 with asterisk ? May 30 11:55:59 hmm.. that's a pain. All the scratchbox stuff is i386 only. Any idea where the VMWare image is? May 30 11:56:15 nvm, found it :) May 30 12:47:34 Jooles: for your convenience: :-D May 30 12:48:10 infobot: no, tabletsdev is http://tabletsdev.maemo.org, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Tabletsdev May 30 12:48:12 okay, DocScrutinizer05 May 30 12:55:46 Ugh, still can't get hold of the VMware image. The licence agreement page keeps taking me back to tabletsdev.nokia.com and adding ?agree=I accept to the URL isn't helping May 30 12:59:16 hmm May 30 12:59:55 you're sure it still doesn't work? May 30 13:00:26 we juszt fixed a few minor details of the internet at large X-P May 30 13:00:47 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php works for me May 30 13:00:51 Well the list of files shows up, but if I try and download a file I get a "Corrupted content error" in the browser May 30 13:01:00 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Readme_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Server_SDK_Virtual_Image.txt May 30 13:01:26 hmmm May 30 13:01:44 mometype issue? May 30 13:01:52 it opens in kwrite here May 30 13:02:32 Oh yeah. Elinks opens it fine. It's just firefox May 30 13:02:33 indeed it's garbled HTML May 30 13:03:11 I guess the .txt extension isn't exactly helping for a html page May 30 13:03:14 No, wait. Elinks is in a loop May 30 13:03:29 Download list <--> license agreement May 30 13:04:22 At least for the text file. The images download ok May 30 13:04:42 er... VMware images, not graphics images. Text mode browser and all :P May 30 13:06:40 cool May 30 13:07:48 I btw got thrown back to licence agreement on above link (of course) and it didn't render on konqueror as a html page despite content clearly *is* html May 30 13:09:29 Seeing as I can't check the text files, I assume the Intrepid image is the Maemo 4 SDK and the Lucid images are Maemo 5? May 30 13:10:01 wait May 30 13:11:45 http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/diablo/maemo-sdk-relnotes_4.1.2.txt May 30 13:16:57 err, that's about the firmware, not the SDK May 30 13:18:04 sorry, no idea right now. I'm a tad distracted right now, so can't check directly on the tabletsdev/* dir to spot the text you asked for May 30 13:19:25 Jooles: giving URLs of anything you want to access and of the page that holds the defunct link, that would for sure help May 30 13:20:42 No worries. Just unzipped the image and it's in there too. Thanks anyway though May 30 13:21:35 we try to fix stuff, so any report welcome May 30 13:22:16 WLAN: 001D6ED5A544 May 30 13:23:27 Jooles: pointing your techstaff team to any page that has dangling links or other issues will help a lot, to allow us fixing it May 30 13:23:52 my techstaff team? May 30 13:24:18 sure, we're your techstaff team, the team that keep maemo.org running May 30 13:24:29 Oh, snazzy :) May 30 13:24:57 Basically I'm trying to get a dev environment set up so I can start helping out with the CSSU development May 30 13:25:20 so, for fremantle? May 30 13:25:26 or diablo? May 30 13:25:29 diablo May 30 13:25:33 I've only got an N810 May 30 13:25:47 oooh, THAT cssu May 30 13:25:57 Though if I ever get an N900 I've nothing against fremantle :) May 30 13:26:20 I dunno if a single devel still is involved in diablo cssu May 30 13:26:39 :( May 30 13:27:00 I assume there's a good reason why fremantle won't work on the 810 May 30 13:27:14 Or is it just that no one has made it work yet? May 30 13:27:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo_Community_Project May 30 13:27:48 Yeah, I've seen that page May 30 13:28:31 fremantle using more cpu grunt and more other hw resurces, and the whole layout around booting differs significantly (diablo used initrd, fremantle doesn't) May 30 13:29:30 *might* still be possible to backport fremantle to N810, but for sure it's a lot of work May 30 13:29:58 stskeeps should be THE guy to ask about the implications in such effort May 30 13:30:04 Jooles: get an n900. They are at the bottom of the price curve right now. May 30 13:30:19 :nod: May 30 13:31:03 a N900 with broken cmt (which almost equals a N810 then) should be available for significantly < 100 bucks May 30 13:31:24 used working ones in good condition are ~150 May 30 13:32:46 Much less than that doc. May 30 13:33:03 More like 70-90euro in the UK. May 30 13:33:30 anyway, Jooles, I invited warfare to join here, despite his busy job, to have a look at dangling links and broken pages in tabletsdev first hand. If you could and want to help on that issue, please do right away. Warfare doesn't have the time to follow chat on #maemo that is "OT" from his perspective May 30 13:34:36 warfare: great job! incredible! many thanks! May 30 13:34:44 :-) \o/ May 30 13:35:17 yeah I know it been again just me pestering you to do it ;-) May 30 13:35:35 N810 GPU is kinda more or less "very hard" to bend into usable state for fremantle type opengl es May 30 13:37:19 Hardware limitation or lack of good drivers? May 30 13:37:24 It starts with the original issue that N810 SoC isn't capable of 800x480 output :) May 30 13:37:47 That... seems like a poor decision with an 800x480 screen May 30 13:38:21 rofl, no shit. May 30 13:39:01 DocScrutinizer05: :) May 30 13:39:36 It was more or less all top of the line stuff when designed :) May 30 13:40:17 * Jooles is surrounded on all sides by annoying hardware :P May 30 13:40:27 and cpu overclocked to 400 MHz :) May 30 13:40:27 in stock config May 30 13:41:52 N800 came with the same SoC/cpu running at 333 MHz, but the kernel didn't become stable with overclock to 400 until after N810 came out May 30 13:42:36 (and software update boosted N800 to 400 too) May 30 13:44:16 N810 also had a SSU OC May 30 13:44:26 initially ran at 333 or sth May 30 13:46:39 The thing is, it's still a nice tablet. Just feels a bit... held back May 30 13:55:30 Jooles: can you share any URLs that need checking, on tabletsdev and related? May 30 13:56:10 otherwise we'll stop on that task for now, and nobody knows when we have the opportubity to look into it again May 30 13:56:20 :-S May 30 13:56:59 then not May 30 13:57:01 Someone said my name? May 30 13:57:27 Oh, there it is May 30 13:57:44 DocScrutinizer05, sure. Just fighting with a Verifone device at the moment May 30 13:57:47 * jooles is at work May 30 13:57:53 aah May 30 13:58:25 please highlight warfare on any findings you have to report May 30 13:58:50 he's the guy who made all this awesome new stuff happen some 60 min ago May 30 13:59:03 well, "new" May 30 13:59:31 o/ afk May 30 14:00:18 will do May 30 14:50:19 N900s might be cheap at the moment, but they're still too much money for me anytime soon. Will have to continue trying to breath new life into the N810 May 30 14:52:49 a big ram in microsd formfactor would do wonders May 30 14:53:11 I have an 8GB Micro SD in the slot May 30 14:54:52 Might have to get some tiny torx keys to take a look inside at some point May 30 15:03:04 I do mean RAM, not flash :) May 30 15:03:15 if such a device would exist May 30 15:03:53 my bad. And I doubt it. Though I guess it's not impossible May 30 15:04:13 I find many modern websites consume all the RAM on the N800/N810 all on their own May 30 15:04:28 swap on a microsd-ram should help somewhat :) May 30 15:06:19 On that note, A-data super highspeed microsdhc (or was it ultafast) did wonders for my N800 when I put swap on that card May 30 15:06:55 (the card was advertised as having "high" IOPS) May 30 15:10:23 hi guys May 30 15:10:51 can some1 post his hildon-application-manager.list ? May 30 15:12:40 http://privatepaste.com/3fba86f3a6 May 30 15:13:42 thanks. and please /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list May 30 15:14:53 deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ fremantle free non-free May 30 15:14:54 deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ May 30 15:14:56 deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0 ./ May 30 15:14:57 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free May 30 15:26:29 I however might wonder if you maybe are looking for /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/catalogues/* or even sth completely different instead of that list May 30 15:29:01 ShadowJK: what is the latest word on high iop cards May 30 15:29:03 ? May 30 15:29:08 you were testing a bunch. May 30 15:31:15 * DocScrutinizer05 thinks b-r-a-i-n was rather interested in /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues May 30 15:31:25 no. i just trying to clean up configs. May 30 15:31:59 *shrug* May 30 15:32:13 updating through apt-get May 30 15:32:21 go edit them via HAM May 30 15:32:54 and watch your edits in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list getting overwritten, afaik May 30 15:34:45 long time not been on maemo.org.. whats up with migration? May 30 15:41:48 finished, and left us with a huge POS that's broken on every second thing you look at May 30 15:49:07 thats mean community development also nearly dead.sad May 30 15:54:25 I don't know why you say that May 30 15:59:09 nearly dead ~= dead.. at least for now May 30 15:59:56 vi__; samsung pro microsdhc, sandisk extreme pro, a-data ultra high speed May 30 16:23:37 vi__: wait, what? you miss incomming calls on n900? what did you do to the poor lady man :( May 30 16:38:38 n900 tar doesn't work for bz2? May 30 16:38:52 the -j option isn't supported May 30 16:39:07 apt-get install tar wants to remove 300+ other programs May 30 16:39:35 is the author or 'multiboot' around so i can punch him in the face for his useless error messages? May 30 16:41:57 raid__: that's probably because its part of busybox or binutils which are dependencies of the mp-fremantle package hence leading to other packages being removed too May 30 16:42:28 i'm sure May 30 16:43:05 you may want to do an apt-get install -d tar; extract the tar file and replace it directly however afaik the system tar does work with bz2 May 30 16:43:12 are you using CSSU? May 30 16:43:32 no May 30 16:44:10 oh then i'm not too sure; stock firmware probably may have that issue. May 30 16:44:17 the -j option isn't supported May 30 16:44:19 tar: invalid option -- j May 30 16:44:23 BusyBox v1.10.2 May 30 16:44:23 you can always bzcat | tar x May 30 16:44:35 no need for tar to support it directly May 30 16:46:36 all tar does if 'j' ('z') is specified, is fork off bzip2 -c/-d (or gzip) and pipe the data through it May 30 16:47:42 my virtual keyboard isn't working, now May 30 16:47:55 can't insert pipe character... May 30 16:48:40 raid__: blue arrow->sym May 30 16:49:03 i found virtual keyboard was turned off, but i just turned it on and still no good May 30 16:49:45 rebooting May 30 16:51:54 it was probably the bash install May 30 16:53:17 r00t^home: thanks, it worked May 30 16:56:58 incredible May 30 17:16:34 gnu tar is getting too many options for each compressor, whatever happened to "do one, do well" ... (then again the original tar supported compress...) May 30 17:18:55 Is there an easy / sane way to use alarmd? (that is, set some commands with bash) May 30 17:19:22 raid__: you can install gnu-tar iirc May 30 17:28:48 Wizzup: not without removing core packages, but i just used bzcat May 30 17:29:00 has anyone got git working? May 30 17:29:22 the one in the repos seems to not support HTTPS urls May 30 17:34:55 apparently there is another git in the repos called git-core May 30 17:35:20 that one fails by 'fatal: HTTP request failed' May 30 17:36:21 hold on it's probably my command May 30 17:36:35 no May 30 17:37:18 you've got to be kidding me May 30 17:39:11 i hate to say it, but i think i might have to retire my phone in a few paychecks May 30 17:39:55 it just doesn't work like it used to May 30 17:45:21 idk, maybe i can fix it May 30 17:50:39 Does NitDroid support GPS? May 30 17:52:56 finally got a fully working google authenticator for the n900 May 30 17:53:10 it runs in the cli May 30 17:53:34 but it requires icedtea6 java May 30 17:54:04 i would have eliminated that dependency but i couldn't get help with git May 30 17:54:31 i'll post this in the forums May 30 17:57:41 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1343944 ? python mostly? May 30 17:58:28 hmm...even more options linked there. May 30 17:58:29 those don't seem to work for all sites, and they're a bit complicated and buggy May 30 17:59:53 why does it need java? googleism? May 30 18:00:17 original language of the code i copied May 30 18:00:32 i had some c source, but needed git to clone it May 30 18:01:42 google code seems to require git to download source, and the n900 doesn't seem to support git May 30 18:02:01 at least not anymore May 30 18:02:54 ecc3g: ^ May 30 18:10:46 how do you submit a package to the repository when its source code is java without any makefiles May 30 18:11:16 if someone will assist me with that, i'll upload this to the repos May 30 18:12:07 i went through the upload instructions on the wiki a long time ago, but i still have some questions May 30 18:13:16 Wizzup: (alarmd) yes, use alarmed(SIC!) May 30 18:13:43 i have other projects i should probably upload as well once i get the hang of it May 30 18:13:50 or alarmclient if you're loving pain May 30 18:16:14 DocScrutinizer05: just found it @ alarmed, ty May 30 18:16:24 interesting enough, the package manager didn't want to install it May 30 18:16:27 but apt-get worked fine May 30 18:19:37 alarmed didn't install in HAM? any details? May 30 18:19:53 DocScrutinizer05: missing pyside packages May 30 18:19:57 mhm May 30 18:20:01 strange May 30 18:20:32 maybe somebody with a clue can have a look into this? May 30 18:20:49 are our repos hosted wrt pyside? May 30 18:21:46 I'll recheck my sources May 30 18:26:06 hosed* even May 30 21:39:04 how do you upload a package to the repositories? May 30 22:16:39 you apply for, in your garage account May 30 22:19:28 I just downloaded and installed into suse vmm the ubuntu lucid desktop vm May 30 22:19:46 seems pretty up to date, according to the readme files May 30 22:20:23 maemosdk_desktop_lucid-36-2.vmdk May 30 22:21:16 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z May 30 22:31:24 DocScrutinizer05: can't download it :( May 30 22:31:44 error about duplicate http headers May 30 22:35:01 joga: try this: http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z May 30 22:35:14 ^jon_y May 30 22:51:23 jon_y: I dunno, I downloaded them via kget May 30 22:52:44 actually you should go http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php and "accept" May 30 22:53:02 then download will work, I guess May 30 22:53:40 My N900 doesnt recognise the USB . It recognises it when booting up aka it goes to a boot loop when there is a USB connected. May 30 22:53:53 you should see a page with links and "save destination to" May 30 22:53:59 My friend who opened the N900 says the hardware is intact May 30 22:54:35 pavi: err what? May 30 22:54:59 please elaborate, your description is a tad... cloudy May 30 22:56:00 DocScrutinizer05: yeah I mean I dont get any dmesg from the PC . But N900 when connected with USB gives a message something about porte connected May 30 22:56:56 DocScrutinizer05: while booting N900 if I connect the USB to a power socket / PC it goes into a boot loop . I see the dark Nokia logo and yellow blinking .. later reboots May 30 22:57:24 wait, you connect N900 to a linux box and there's nuttin showing up in a tail -f /var/log/messages ? May 30 22:58:08 not even when N900 been powered down? May 30 22:59:28 I suspect your USB is absolutely ok but you messed up your rootfs/system May 30 22:59:29 DocScrutinizer05: let me give you what N900's dmesg says one momentt May 30 22:59:56 N900's dmesg? I think you can't even boot it? May 30 23:00:10 DocScrutinizer05: I used a battery charger May 30 23:00:46 please try again to explain what works and what doesn't May 30 23:00:58 I'm completely puzzled May 30 23:03:29 whenever I connect USB .. on N900 dmesg I am getting the output tw14030_usb tw14030_usb: HW_CONDITIONS 0xd0/208; link2 May 30 23:04:00 hmm, ok. normal May 30 23:04:02 Thats it , I am not getting the USB connecting dialogue or charging or even anything in PC's dmesg May 30 23:04:34 Also before that I get slide GPIO is now closed and later open May 30 23:04:40 do you have a linux PC? May 30 23:04:48 yeah May 30 23:04:55 slide is your kbd May 30 23:04:56 thats how I run dmesg May 30 23:05:06 you closed and opened it May 30 23:06:01 I am getting 0x50 / 80 when I removed the cable and 0xd0 /208 when I insert back the USB May 30 23:06:28 please on linux PC, as root, do >># less "+F" /var/log/messages May 30 23:07:02 then plug in the powered-down N900 and watch what you get, May 30 23:08:01 (of course without the >>#) May 30 23:08:27 less "+F" /var/log/messages May 30 23:09:33 there is no /var/log/messages I am using syslog instead May 30 23:10:44 on some distros it's /var/log/syslog May 30 23:11:57 DocScrutinizer05: sadly nothing is happening .. its playing all by itself going into reboot looop . As far as linux machine is concerned , it doesnt recognise it . May 30 23:14:12 what do you mean by "doesn't recognise it" ? May 30 23:15:00 did you do a # less +F /var/log/syslog ? May 30 23:15:04 DocScrutinizer05: I mean no response in syslog or dmesg May 30 23:15:12 DocScrutinizer05: yes I did it May 30 23:15:23 and there wasn't anything like May 30 23:15:25 May 31 01:11:10 saturn kernel: [4833819.274022] usb 2-1.8: new high-speed USB device number 73 using ehci_hcd May 30 23:15:27 May 31 01:11:11 saturn kernel: [4833819.446348] usb 2-1.8: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0105 May 30 23:15:28 May 31 01:11:11 saturn kernel: [4833819.446353] usb 2-1.8: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=5 May 30 23:15:30 May 31 01:11:11 saturn kernel: [4833819.446356] usb 2-1.8: Product: Nokia N900 (Update mode) May 30 23:15:34 Nothing not even a blink May 30 23:15:42 when you plugged in the *powered-down* N900? May 30 23:15:54 Yeah completely powered down 900 May 30 23:16:03 then your USB is defect May 30 23:16:04 should I remove battery and try ? May 30 23:16:51 Ahh but it never starts when I connect the USB to power source or PC . May 30 23:16:52 you can remove battery, plug in N900 to PC and then insert battery May 30 23:18:42 err wait, your N900 doesn't wake up and show any sign of life (LED or whatever) when powered down and plugged into PC? May 30 23:19:53 By "sign of life" I mean the orange / light yellow light wakes up .. a dark nokia icon comesand 3 white dots come and waits .. it goes back to reboot with a vibration . May 30 23:20:24 it does that every time when I connect a powered down N900 to power source/ PC May 30 23:20:47 then at least your VBUS and GND lines on USB are OK May 30 23:21:31 if data lines are also OK, then you MUST see that "Product: Nokia N900 (Update mode)" in PC's syslog May 30 23:21:46 immediately after plugging in May 30 23:22:17 DocScrutinizer05: to fix the GSM issue of " telephony functions " my friend opened the device and we lost USB. He rechecked the hardware and says its intact May 30 23:22:34 Maybe as you said some data lines might have been broken in process May 30 23:22:45 sorry, you lost USB? May 30 23:23:08 I mean by "lost" not being able to detect May 30 23:23:37 ooh, so your freind destroyed the USB when opening the device? May 30 23:24:20 DocScrutinizer05: the issue came up after that but I dont blame him , my phone was anyway useless with the telephony functions issue . May 30 23:24:54 hmm what did you do to fix that modem issue? May 30 23:25:29 He had attached some springs to the shipset to help the chip fit tightly May 30 23:26:04 Anyways I cant even check the issue proprely because I have to borrow batter charger from friend May 30 23:27:39 he might have damaged about anything, so it's pretty hard to tell what's your root problem. Anyway every N900 will announce "kernel: [4833819.446348] usb 2-1.8: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0105" in syslog/dmesg May 30 23:28:13 if yours doesn't when plugged in to linux PC when powered down, then your USB hw is defect May 30 23:28:24 or your cable is defect, or your PC May 30 23:28:28 DocScrutinizer05: any idea on how to fix it ? May 30 23:29:04 alas not since, as mentioned, your friend might have damaged arbitrary components on board during that modem fixing May 30 23:29:28 ohh May 30 23:29:43 So practically its dead :( May 30 23:29:51 removing the lids from the cans is pretty difficult and you easily can damage components during prying them open May 30 23:30:01 Wish there is some modern phone like N900 May 30 23:30:53 sorry for you and your N900 May 30 23:32:00 odds are you (or your friend) could fix it, once you find the defect May 30 23:32:23 Me cant do anything .. I stay in koblenz and he stays in berlin May 30 23:32:31 so its liek next trip May 30 23:32:39 there's not that many components that could cause such error pattern May 30 23:33:05 Is there a hardware manual to read and understand the problem ? May 30 23:33:21 sorry, both too far from my hometown to give you a short visit May 30 23:33:34 well, there are the schematics May 30 23:33:57 not much else you could read to find the root cause of the problem May 30 23:34:56 ohh ok . Where do you stay ? May 30 23:35:02 there's a rather small number of components between USB and the 1707 chip which is the USB transceiver May 30 23:35:07 N May 30 23:36:20 ohh ok May 30 23:36:23 if however the 1707 itself got damaged, there's probably not much you could do May 30 23:37:13 the reboot loop when plugged to USB seems to indicate that it's actually the 1707 PHY that's causing system panics when trying to access USB May 30 23:37:55 ok May 30 23:41:39 It's not easy to diagnose state of 1707 May 30 23:41:53 but you could have a look at the chip May 30 23:42:32 if it looks ok, then it's worth checking the other components between that chip and USB (electrically between, see schematics) May 30 23:52:22 pavi: I just checked. Even a perfectly working N900 shuts down after a few seconds and a few yellow flashes when connected to a charger that has the datalines not shorted May 30 23:53:01 DocScrutinizer05: thats good news May 30 23:53:09 so your probelm doesn't necessarily indicate that 1707 is defect May 30 23:53:32 it could be any breakage of datalines, even in the USB cable May 30 23:54:13 and I learned sth new today \o/ May 30 23:55:37 DocScrutinizer05: its not USB cable . I have tried with other cables May 30 23:55:38 so, cehck your cable, check your USB receptacle in N900 with a magnifying glass, if there's maybe some debris in there so gold latches don't give comtact May 30 23:55:52 mhm May 30 23:56:02 ohh yeah sure . May 30 23:56:58 anyone used the XpressMusic batteries on the N900? May 30 23:58:04 I'm using my 5230 (nuron) battery on my N900... XpressMusic is the 5800? They all use the BL5J battery... May 30 23:58:18 and death to non gold-plated, non wide contact microusb plugs... May 31 00:00:58 oh... and keep in mind the 5230/5800 batteries are inserted upside down compared to the n900... so any battery taking advantage of that won't work. May 31 00:03:12 as long as they are not duds May 31 00:03:39 I just need a decent replacement battery... my original battery is down to like 4 hours of life per charge May 31 00:04:20 and Amazon happens to list the XpressMusic one May 31 00:05:06 BL-5J May 31 00:06:57 seems Nokia labeled a lot of phones "XpressMusic". Make sure you look for the 5800, 5230, or Nuron battery. May 31 00:07:10 BL-5J May 31 00:07:21 Or that, if they are kind enough to write that. May 31 00:07:47 if they don't, I'd be wary to buy such item May 31 00:09:17 this is the guy: http://www.amazon.com/3-7V-BL-5J-Battery-Nokia-XpressMusic/dp/B005XG67DA May 31 00:09:44 from the reviews it seems a lot of the genuine "new" Nokia batteries are used May 31 00:09:52 searching for "xpressmusic battery" in amazon.com, the first hit actually says "n900" ... May 31 00:10:53 it says BL-5J, that should be fine. And that looks like a generic, I'd be wary of buying that.... May 31 00:11:08 generic? what do you mean? May 31 00:11:19 thought 'XpressMusic' is a chinese brand? May 31 00:11:41 the picture looks like a no-name battery... there's a thread on t.m.o about tested batteries... May 31 00:11:54 XpressMusic is a label Nokia made. May 31 00:12:03 Ohhhh May 31 00:12:08 I saw the thread but they all refer to ebay May 31 00:12:12 or DX May 31 00:13:51 I actually bought a Japod from DX a while back as a spare. It's still holding up. May 31 00:14:11 but a DX purchase is a 2-3 month investment in time May 31 00:15:35 Nokia BL5J's should be available in many local stores too if you need one fast, then.... May 31 00:15:53 actually... maybe not... May 31 00:15:57 what is the capacity of a "BL5J"? May 31 00:16:13 I see references to ~900mAH and also to ~1300mAH May 31 00:16:30 The only battery that is supposed to be called BL-5J is Nokia's, and it should be 1320mAH May 31 00:16:59 and should the packaging be a small clear bag? May 31 00:18:02 I've never bought an OEM replacement so I don't know. Both the 5230 and the n900 came with OEM BL5J's and those are the only ones I have. May 31 00:18:25 hmmm May 31 00:18:49 The Japod came in a nice box. I suspect the BL5J should come at least ina blister pack.... May 31 00:19:12 reviews keep complaining it was shipped in a clear bag May 31 00:19:45 DocScrutinizer05: i already have a garage account authorized to upload May 31 00:19:58 i just need to make my first upload May 31 00:20:22 it's a java program May 31 00:20:33 hmmmm to chance a $5 generic battery... May 31 00:21:11 should go look for the known good generics, else go for the real deal... May 31 00:21:29 the concern is the "real deal" are used batteries based on the reviews May 31 00:21:47 one listing showed a blister pack but the reviews say they were receiving a plastic baggy battery May 31 00:24:15 I think you have to take the risk... hard to tell which are still good or not. May 31 00:24:29 in that case, I am leaning to the generics May 31 00:24:45 I suspect a lot are NOS and those are suspect. May 31 00:24:49 the chargers on the N900 seems decently designed May 31 00:34:29 I sort of dislike the onboard N900 charger... May 31 00:38:36 any specific complaints? May 31 00:41:47 I posted my new Google Authenticator solution here -- http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1348169 May 31 00:44:46 In case it makes people happy .. we were sitting in linux tag talking about N900 annd voila 2 of the debian devs open their phones saying they have the same . I met like 3 other people in the event . Today was surprised a neighbour got one ! May 31 00:49:44 fun May 31 00:50:13 so when so many N900 users out there, how comes only 94 voted in council elections? May 31 00:51:30 what do all those users think who's going to take care about their maemo infra in the future? May 31 00:52:23 No idea , maybe they all didnt know of that ? Or maybe they are just happy with their devices May 31 00:52:55 But the good thing is people still use it despite lot of new android devices , my neighbour ditched it for nexus 4 May 31 00:53:22 i want an n900 sequel May 31 00:54:24 Nexus 4 is a still born May 31 00:54:27 there's alot of N900 sequels out there. What you really want is a maemo5 device sequel I guess May 31 00:54:32 dr1fter: same here ! And there are lot of people who want them May 31 00:54:47 the Galaxy Nexus might be a better choice May 31 00:55:09 I want a phone with N900 keyboard and maemo on it . May 31 00:55:10 isn't a bunch of exNokians doing a Meego device? May 31 00:55:28 Sailfish + jolla doesnt have keyboard "yet" May 31 00:55:37 no, you mean jolla, and sailfish device May 31 00:55:51 yes May 31 00:56:07 btw - is there any part of Maemo5 that depends on NOLO being there? May 31 00:56:30 though i'm afraid your "meego device" claim wasn't that off May 31 00:57:06 actually it seems to me that sailfish is way more HARM than fremantle, by design philosophy May 31 00:57:24 really tempted to put a 512M memory + DM3730 in a N900 May 31 00:57:49 hehe May 31 00:57:59 for NOLO, I don't think so May 31 00:58:04 DocScrutinizer05: so its definitely end of road for fremantle . The last best one is N900 ? May 31 00:58:13 yes May 31 00:58:18 so if I can get U-boot running, I have a chance of running the rest of Maemo? May 31 00:58:29 should May 31 00:58:47 it is only about $300 to try May 31 00:59:02 Did anyone preorder jolla mobile ? May 31 00:59:11 now THAT would be an awesome rework May 31 00:59:29 pavi: sure, a lot May 31 00:59:31 Its promising but I am no sure of how much propreitary components it will have May 31 00:59:43 what processor is jolla based on? May 31 01:00:09 some errr forgot May 31 01:00:14 no OMAP iirc May 31 01:00:21 sth nasty May 31 01:00:28 so battery life could be a bit lacking May 31 01:00:56 as long as it isn't a Qcom May 31 01:01:13 wasn't processor family one of the very few hard facts they already published on their website? May 31 01:01:26 DocScrutinizer05: is it still viable to buy a n9 or should I wait for jolla if I want a "free" phone ? May 31 01:01:39 had not had time to scrub their site... I just saw references in liliputing.com May 31 01:01:46 in my book N9 never been free May 31 01:01:52 DocScrutinizer05: don't think so, only thing we know is dual core. May 31 01:02:00 aah, ok May 31 01:02:05 the uSIMM is a deal breaker for the N9 May 31 01:02:37 DocScrutinizer05: by "free" I am not optimistic about complete "free " hardware . Its only openmoko which can deliver it May 31 01:02:50 hah May 31 01:02:57 ~joerg May 31 01:02:59 it has been said that joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer May 31 01:03:15 I don't mind the hw being a bit closed May 31 01:03:28 if it can match the N900 level, it is good enough as long as it isn't QCOM fram May 31 01:03:31 crap May 31 01:04:27 it's good enough when you're free to update kernels on your own May 31 01:04:35 DocScrutinizer05: :) I saw a openmoko device at linuxtag berlin , and it was very highly priced . It was running opensuse :) May 31 01:04:54 yes... hence I am willing to stomache the GNexus but not the N4 May 31 01:05:01 probably Nikolaus' gta04 openphoenux May 31 01:06:15 why not the n4? May 31 01:06:15 it's a great project, if only Nikolaus hadn't decided to recycle the crappy ugly shower-radio case of openmoko gta02 May 31 01:07:12 * SpeedEvil hopes for goodness from Jolla. May 31 01:09:31 infobot: no, joerg is an ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, now mainly involved in maintenance of maemo and N900. Usually known as DocScrutinizer May 31 01:09:32 okay, DocScrutinizer05 May 31 01:09:41 ~factinfo joerg May 31 01:09:42 joerg -- created by jOERG at Thu Oct 23 12:00:02 2008 (1680 days); last modified 10s ago by DocScrutinizer05!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 51 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 6m 44s ago; it has been locked by jOERG. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 31 02:59:58 2013