**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 18 02:59:59 2013
Jun 18 05:40:12 * DocScrutinizer05 is idly watching a sftp:// c&p from n900:MyDocs to PC (in konqueror)
Jun 18 05:41:26 * DocScrutinizer05 also noticed that BM obviously NOT does updates of /home/user
Jun 18 05:43:54 <DocScrutinizer05> obviously copying 16403 files / 15GB from MyDocs to PC via sftp and wlan takes ~3:30
Jun 18 05:44:05 <DocScrutinizer05> 3:30:00
Jun 18 05:45:28 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe I should augment my rsync cronjob to include MyDocs
Jun 18 06:50:25 <divVerent> anyway, to everyone: I figured out the openmediaplayer issue
Jun 18 06:50:39 <freemangordon> divVerent: hmm?
Jun 18 06:50:45 <divVerent> 1. it is not fault of omap stuff... it happens for ffmpeg decoded stuff too
Jun 18 06:50:49 <divVerent> u/v plane swap
Jun 18 06:50:53 <divVerent> i.e. red blue swap
Jun 18 06:51:13 <divVerent> and it only happens in openmediaplayer's zoomed in view
Jun 18 06:52:10 <divVerent> so basically, the mafw-gst-renderer video overlay can break in this way when zooming in
Jun 18 06:52:43 <divVerent> it probably was always like that, I normally did not use the zoomed in view
Jun 18 06:53:02 <divVerent> I did once, and the bug happens for some but nolt all videos then
Jun 18 06:53:11 <divVerent> is there interest in an affected video?
Jun 18 06:53:38 <divVerent> PROBABLY the only thing that triggers the bug is the resolution of the video
Jun 18 06:54:50 <n900-dk_> Anyone experienced spontanous reboot when you disable wifi?
Jun 18 06:55:09 <divVerent> never... and I did that a lot
Jun 18 06:55:47 <divVerent> does it hang before the reboot for 1 min?
Jun 18 06:56:09 <divVerent> and did you try "the other kernel"?
Jun 18 06:56:41 <divVerent> i.e. kernel-power if you used the default one and vice versa
Jun 18 07:02:40 <divVerent> but that bug was annoying... I almost would have reflashed
Jun 18 07:03:07 <n900-dk_> it reboots imidiately, when I press the wifi icon
Jun 18 07:03:47 <divVerent> even with other kernel?
Jun 18 07:05:19 <n900-dk_> I'm not sure, what you mean by other kernel.. I'm on power52
Jun 18 07:05:54 <divVerent> then try the nokia kernel
Jun 18 07:06:00 <divVerent> just once, to rule out it is the issue
Jun 18 07:06:19 <divVerent> or are you on CSSU-thumb? then you do not have this choice any more I think
Jun 18 07:06:24 <n900-dk_> Dont want to reflash just because of this issue.
Jun 18 07:06:29 <divVerent> no need to reflash for that
Jun 18 07:06:33 <divVerent> on which CSSU level are you?
Jun 18 07:06:34 <n900-dk_> Running CSSU-Testing
Jun 18 07:06:37 <divVerent> ok
Jun 18 07:06:45 <divVerent> in your applications list there is an icon called "Nokia Kernel"
Jun 18 07:06:48 <divVerent> right?
Jun 18 07:06:55 <n900-dk_> yes
Jun 18 07:06:59 <divVerent> run that
Jun 18 07:07:06 <divVerent> then reboot (it probably does that for you)
Jun 18 07:07:15 <divVerent> then it changes the kernel to the default one and reboots
Jun 18 07:07:21 <n900-dk_> but this issue doesn't show up every time, I disable wifi
Jun 18 07:07:22 <divVerent> if that fixes it, you know it is a kernel-power bug
Jun 18 07:07:29 <divVerent> then try running with nokia kernel for a few days
Jun 18 07:07:38 <divVerent> BTW, when you do that
Jun 18 07:07:42 <divVerent> the icon will change to Power Kernel
Jun 18 07:07:46 <divVerent> which will allow you to go back
Jun 18 07:08:13 <divVerent> also, did you do any settings for kernel-power?
Jun 18 07:08:16 <divVerent> like overclocking?
Jun 18 07:08:20 <divVerent> if yes, try undoing that first
Jun 18 07:08:27 <n900-dk_> Ok, I will
Jun 18 07:09:14 <divVerent> even this smartreflex thing may be worth trying to turn off
Jun 18 07:09:24 <divVerent> speaking of which, I have not turned it ON since last reflash yet :P
Jun 18 07:09:45 <n900-dk_> smartreflex?
Jun 18 07:10:10 <divVerent> n900-dk_: if you do not know what it is, you did not touch it
Jun 18 07:10:12 <divVerent> so that is good
Jun 18 07:10:28 <divVerent> it is a checkbox in e.g. QCpuFreq or the kernel-power settings file
Jun 18 07:10:32 <divVerent> which should save some battery
Jun 18 07:10:43 <divVerent> by more intelligently selecting the CPU core voltages
Jun 18 07:11:40 <n900-dk_> aha
Jun 18 07:12:43 <divVerent> I just know that when enabling it I get a warning that it makes some N900s randomlyh crash
Jun 18 07:12:52 <divVerent> it works for mine though
Jun 18 07:45:49 <DocScrutinizer05> divVerent: or not
Jun 18 07:47:13 <divVerent> DocScrutinizer05: which part? the battery saving? indeed never measured
Jun 18 07:47:34 <divVerent> but I do like using lower voltages, and if that only means better life time of the CPU (and THAT one is obvious)
Jun 18 08:43:41 <DocScrutinizer05> well...
Jun 18 08:44:27 <DocScrutinizer05> so far nobody has done tests with SR afaik
Jun 18 08:44:53 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: wrong, vi did it
Jun 18 08:44:58 <DocScrutinizer05> *decent* tests particularly
Jun 18 08:45:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, and where are the docs describing the test setup and the results?
Jun 18 08:45:38 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd be *really* extremely interested in them
Jun 18 08:47:35 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: sorry, it was caveman, not vi
Jun 18 08:47:37 <freemangordon> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81580
Jun 18 08:47:42 <DocScrutinizer05> should be rather easy to run a nice A/B compare test, switching off WLAN and GSM, then running bq27200.sh 5 >with-SR.log, and another without-SR.log
Jun 18 08:47:55 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: see that thread
Jun 18 08:54:34 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf, profiles
Jun 18 08:54:45 <DocScrutinizer05> that tells zilch, in the end
Jun 18 08:55:36 <DocScrutinizer05> since I have no clue what those profiles actually do, I'd bet they do more than just enabling SR while keeping same core voltage as without SR
Jun 18 08:55:39 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: dsp profile has SR enabled, min-max 250-805
Jun 18 08:56:26 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: it is not like that, she couldn't be half pregnant :)
Jun 18 08:57:01 <DocScrutinizer05> nonsense
Jun 18 08:57:14 <freemangordon> SR is eigher enabled or not. once enabled it controls the voltages for all OPPS
Jun 18 08:57:33 <DocScrutinizer05> you don't need to run bogus undervolt profile youst to enable SR
Jun 18 08:57:50 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, so what?
Jun 18 08:58:51 <freemangordon> *either
Jun 18 08:58:52 <DocScrutinizer05> that's the idea of SR (this small part of SR) that the core voltage gets controlled by hardware via dedicated I2C rather than by software via general purpose I2C
Jun 18 08:59:06 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: sure. what is your point?
Jun 18 08:59:46 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: the difference is that with SR enabled it:
Jun 18 09:00:07 <DocScrutinizer05> that doesn't stop you from setting SR profile to use same voltage on max closckspeed that the system would use when SR was disabled
Jun 18 09:00:27 <freemangordon> 1. uses calibration values to calculate the "correct" voltages for that particular device
Jun 18 09:00:41 <freemangordon> 2. voltage "oscilates" around that pont 
Jun 18 09:00:47 <DocScrutinizer05> since otherwise you would test undervolting more than SR
Jun 18 09:00:49 <freemangordon> *point
Jun 18 09:01:52 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway that article with those friggin profiles even seems to introduce OC
Jun 18 09:02:35 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: SR doesn't work like that, you just give him calibrations and initial voltage for a particular OPP
Jun 18 09:03:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and, on a sidenote, I think mp3 is not a generally valid test for all usecases
Jun 18 09:03:07 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly via mplayer
Jun 18 09:03:37 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't work like what?
Jun 18 09:03:59 <freemangordon> no matter what the initial voltage is (assumming it is not too low, so the MPU would block before SR has chance to increase it). you end up in similar voltages for an OPP every time
Jun 18 09:04:18 <DocScrutinizer05> eh?
Jun 18 09:04:31 <DocScrutinizer05> my logic doesn't work like that
Jun 18 09:04:48 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: no idea about your logic, but this is how SR works
Jun 18 09:05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> meh
Jun 18 09:05:08 <freemangordon> hmm?
Jun 18 09:05:24 <DocScrutinizer05> when you suggest SR works like an unparsable statement then I have to disagree
Jun 18 09:05:55 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: no point to argue, I know what I am talking about, I spent more than half an year reading docs etc
Jun 18 09:06:08 <freemangordon> and playing with the driver in the meanwhile
Jun 18 09:06:32 <DocScrutinizer05> so what? you're not even able to post a parsable statement here then?
Jun 18 09:06:34 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: imagine PID regulator
Jun 18 09:07:45 <freemangordon> which exactly part you cannot parse? I can elaborate or rephrase
Jun 18 09:10:02 <DocScrutinizer05> I *know*: there's a dedicated I2C labeled "SR" from CPU to Power management chip. The CPU adjusts the LDO for core voltage (and others?) via that dedicated SR-I2C automatically, when SR is enabled. There's also a "general purpose" I2C to PM chip that is used to configure same LDOs under software control, when SR is disabled (e.g. during bootup)
Jun 18 09:10:55 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: wrong, it is not CPU that adjust voltages, there is dedicated HW to do that
Jun 18 09:11:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I *think* the voltage steps for SR are in a table in RAM, and CPU clock generator decides which entry from that table to use , based on CPU clock speed
Jun 18 09:11:12 <DocScrutinizer05> BS
Jun 18 09:11:25 <DocScrutinizer05> CPU aka SoC is adjusting the woltage
Jun 18 09:11:41 <rikanee> freemangordon: IIRC there are different generations of SR
Jun 18 09:11:42 <DocScrutinizer05> actually the PRM in SOC
Jun 18 09:12:45 <DocScrutinizer05> look at schematics to find the I2C labeled "SmartRefelx"
Jun 18 09:13:10 <rikanee> there's one that has SR under full software control, then a newer one with the AP telling the power reg that it's going into LP mode, and Reg deciding in voltage, and the newest one has SR fully automatic within the SoC, as long as you toggle the sysfs entry.
Jun 18 09:15:22 <divVerent> way more interesting than benchmarking SR battery use, would be finding out which components ACTUALLY use the battery how much
Jun 18 09:15:27 <divVerent> like, is the CPU even a relevant contribution
Jun 18 09:15:36 <divVerent> or is it usually the screen
Jun 18 09:15:36 <DocScrutinizer05> GAIA N4200, pins I2C.SR.SDA I2C.SR.SCL
Jun 18 09:16:35 <rikanee> divVerent: powertop running while locked vs powertop running while "make -j128" ;)
Jun 18 09:16:36 <DocScrutinizer05> of course the screen, divVerent
Jun 18 09:17:00 <divVerent> DocScrutinizer05: basically, I wonder under which workload CPU use matters
Jun 18 09:17:18 <divVerent> sure, playing mp3s with mplayer with screen turned off and offline mode, but who does that
Jun 18 09:17:24 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: exactly, it is SoC, not CPU
Jun 18 09:17:25 <DocScrutinizer05> and the general purpose for software control of LDOs are directly above I2C.CTL.SDA I2C.CTL.SCL
Jun 18 09:17:33 <rikanee> divVerent: power = heat, and when your palms start to sweat running Debian on N900, then you may be burning power.
Jun 18 09:17:42 <divVerent> rikanee: yes
Jun 18 09:17:49 <divVerent> but CPU heat and display backlight heat are still the same heat
Jun 18 09:17:54 <freemangordon> rikanee: and what is used in n900 is pure WH control
Jun 18 09:18:03 <divVerent> I doubt the backlight has a good efficiency
Jun 18 09:18:10 <freemangordon> *HW
Jun 18 09:18:41 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: ok, if you wanna play smartass then take this: YES it IS a cpu: the Power and Reset Management CPU
Jun 18 09:18:44 <rikanee> freemangordon: ah, thanks for clarifying that
Jun 18 09:18:49 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption
Jun 18 09:19:06 <SpeedEvil> The backlight generally iumplies other stuff.
Jun 18 09:19:24 <divVerent> fmtx just 19mA? wow
Jun 18 09:19:28 <rikanee> divVerent: the LCD and backlight are naturally, large power burners.
Jun 18 09:19:42 <SpeedEvil> Namely that the LCD panel is active, and the OMAP GPU unit is fething data from RAM, and painting it to screen constantly.
Jun 18 09:20:00 <DocScrutinizer05> divVerent: THAT MUCH, for a friggin 5nW?
Jun 18 09:20:02 <SpeedEvil> The actual LEDs that illuminate the screen - unless on maximum brightness - may not be a large component
Jun 18 09:20:10 <freemangordon> rikanee: on OPP switch - SR is disabled, new initial voltage is loaded in twl, calibration values are loaded in the appropriate regs, SR is enabled. that's all
Jun 18 09:21:08 <divVerent> DocScrutinizer05: 5nW? really that low?
Jun 18 09:21:15 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe uW
Jun 18 09:21:20 <SpeedEvil> It's nW
Jun 18 09:21:22 <DocScrutinizer05> but really low
Jun 18 09:21:26 <SpeedEvil> And I think it's 30/50 or so
Jun 18 09:21:31 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: last time I checked CPU stands for Central Processing Unit
Jun 18 09:21:48 <divVerent> wait, the fmtx is that low... so using higher tx power is sure legal then :P
Jun 18 09:21:53 <freemangordon> in my book power management processor is not CPU
Jun 18 09:21:54 <SpeedEvil> divVerent: No
Jun 18 09:22:07 <freemangordon> (in n900 that is)
Jun 18 09:22:08 <divVerent> the legal limit is something in mW
Jun 18 09:22:28 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter#Typical_Range
Jun 18 09:22:32 <SpeedEvil> divVerent: nW
Jun 18 09:22:37 <DocScrutinizer05> uhuh, in freemangordon's book a asymmetrical multiprocessing environment has only one CPU
Jun 18 09:22:40 <SpeedEvil> 15/50nW
Jun 18 09:22:48 <SpeedEvil> divVerent: Read above
Jun 18 09:22:58 <SpeedEvil> There are around a dozen CPUs in the n900.
Jun 18 09:23:11 <DocScrutinizer05> that's what I'd bet on
Jun 18 09:23:17 <rikanee> anyone able to tap into the on-board FM antenna and hook it up to a RF amplifier?
Jun 18 09:23:23 <DocScrutinizer05> half of them in SoC
Jun 18 09:23:29 <SpeedEvil> Taking as CPU - a turing complete machine able to run stored programs.
Jun 18 09:23:45 <SpeedEvil> Including the LED controller.
Jun 18 09:23:52 <DocScrutinizer05> there's even a security CPU in SoC
Jun 18 09:25:31 <divVerent> I see
Jun 18 09:25:36 <DocScrutinizer05> well, when freemangordon tries to educate me about it's not (the ALU or stackpointer register of) the main CPU that controls SR, then ...
Jun 18 09:25:48 <HtheB> hi all
Jun 18 09:27:17 <rikanee> ohai HtheB.
Jun 18 09:27:20 <DocScrutinizer05> rikanee: sorry?
Jun 18 09:27:30 <DocScrutinizer05> "tap into"?
Jun 18 09:27:30 <HtheB> o/
Jun 18 09:27:31 <HtheB> sup
Jun 18 09:28:00 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05: it seems that it's difficult to expose the copper and attach an antenna to the N900's on-board FM antenna.
Jun 18 09:28:50 <rikanee> HtheB: got off uni early because of flood warnings, but I'm now stuck with reading up journals for a paper D:
Jun 18 09:28:59 <DocScrutinizer05> err, last time I read about it (2 days ago) I seen a copper stripe aerial in case that's touching a contatc pad on PCB with a spring
Jun 18 09:28:59 <divVerent> anyway... display is probably still a huge waste :P typically only 10% of the energe become light
Jun 18 09:30:01 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, with LED this might be a tad better, until most of the light gets absorbed by shut LCD cells
Jun 18 09:30:08 <DocScrutinizer05> and color filters
Jun 18 09:30:10 <HtheB> flood warning?!
Jun 18 09:30:26 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm?
Jun 18 09:30:26 <HtheB> flood as in: tsunami?
Jun 18 09:30:36 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05: mmm. time to retrace the aerial array on the N900 when I have time. the FM antenna sucks, big time.
Jun 18 09:30:53 <DocScrutinizer05> the TX power sucks
Jun 18 09:30:59 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: polarisers - another half
Jun 18 09:31:00 <rikanee> RX is pretty bad too.
Jun 18 09:31:08 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: indeed
Jun 18 09:31:23 <DocScrutinizer05> RX is via headphone cable
Jun 18 09:31:24 <rikanee> HtheB: tropical storm, gets up to 3-4 feet at the uni.
Jun 18 09:31:25 <SpeedEvil> The ideal best case is 1/6th of the light gets out.
Jun 18 09:31:47 <DocScrutinizer05> rikanee: where are youß
Jun 18 09:31:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ?
Jun 18 09:31:56 <rikanee> DocScrutinizer05: Philippines.
Jun 18 09:32:01 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jun 18 09:32:16 <SpeedEvil> REad the links in the FMTX page - there are unfortunately good reasons to only allow truly tiny powers.
Jun 18 09:32:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I seen a minor storm in Taipei
Jun 18 09:32:37 <DocScrutinizer05> no real fun
Jun 18 09:32:52 <rikanee> SpeedEvil: regulatory agencies aren't fun :(
Jun 18 09:33:25 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: I still doubt that's any sensible rationale
Jun 18 09:34:26 <HtheB> rikanee, so is it false alarm?
Jun 18 09:34:36 <HtheB> i mean, did the storm happen?
Jun 18 09:34:55 <rikanee> HtheB: it's raining hard atm, in 30 minutes I wouldn't leave the flat ;)
Jun 18 09:34:58 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: It is actually. The amount of power needed to disrupt a FM receiver listening to a good signal at the edge of its coverage is quite tiny.
Jun 18 09:35:14 <HtheB> rikanee, hmmm :(
Jun 18 09:35:30 <HtheB> hey rikanee, a bit offtopic though. can you compile harmattan apps?
Jun 18 09:35:51 <DocScrutinizer05> SpeedEvil: yes, but still the power of a TX goes down exponentially with distance
Jun 18 09:36:02 <rikanee> HtheB: unfortunately, even since the Nokia wiki went down, I'm left with a broken Harmattan SDK.
Jun 18 09:36:05 <DocScrutinizer05> rather **3
Jun 18 09:36:07 <DocScrutinizer05> iirc
Jun 18 09:36:10 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: Sure - so does the other transmitter.
Jun 18 09:36:12 <SpeedEvil> err - 2
Jun 18 09:36:26 <rikanee> I'll get around to fixing it this weekend, and snapshotting the build VM for future reference.
Jun 18 09:36:26 <SpeedEvil> Unless it's a near-field magnetic transmitter.
Jun 18 09:36:28 <DocScrutinizer05> the other transmitter is km away
Jun 18 09:36:36 <HtheB> rikanee, there is a mirror...
Jun 18 09:36:46 <HtheB> :P
Jun 18 09:36:53 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why those transmitters use hundreds of watts output
Jun 18 09:37:09 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer05: yes - and if you are talking about a reciever at the edge of its reception zone, you can actually disrupt that with nanowatts of signal.
Jun 18 09:37:31 <SpeedEvil> The OFGEN presentation on this is good, and to the point.
Jun 18 09:37:36 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, when the nW transmitter is as close as a few meters
Jun 18 09:38:59 <DocScrutinizer05> franksly, every hairdryer motor emits a few nW real noise on that particular frequency
Jun 18 09:39:11 <HtheB> lol
Jun 18 09:39:42 <DocScrutinizer05> to me that regulation is biased
Jun 18 09:40:46 <divVerent> sure it is
Jun 18 09:40:55 <divVerent> the distance of the fmtx is barely sufficient for car use
Jun 18 09:41:00 <divVerent> does not even always work properly there
Jun 18 09:41:06 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 18 09:41:34 <divVerent> works better in Switzerland than in Germany though
Jun 18 09:41:36 <DocScrutinizer05> the intention of that regulation been to render those transmitters basically useless
Jun 18 09:41:37 <divVerent> less clogged frequencies
Jun 18 09:42:00 <divVerent> rephrase: to make those transmitters unable to disturb radio receivers of others
Jun 18 09:42:08 <divVerent> this basically sets a 4m distance limit already
Jun 18 09:42:17 <divVerent> so you cannot force your neighbor's radio to rickroll them
Jun 18 09:42:35 <divVerent> basically, IMHO this was solved the wrong way
Jun 18 09:42:36 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod: even the radio of the car next to yours, at the traffic light
Jun 18 09:42:54 <divVerent> the real solution would have been reserving a frequency band for those transmitters
Jun 18 09:43:03 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, should've used collision detect
Jun 18 09:43:03 <divVerent> and maybe 10x the power (for 3x the distance)
Jun 18 09:43:06 <SpeedEvil> The intention is so that it doesn't screw up people listening to distant stations.
Jun 18 09:43:09 <divVerent> not even needed there
Jun 18 09:43:18 <divVerent> just reserve a few frequencies FM stations no longer use
Jun 18 09:43:30 <divVerent> just, exactly this was not possible in e.g. Germany
Jun 18 09:43:35 <divVerent> because ALL the frequencies are used
Jun 18 09:43:36 <rikanee> I can imagine the chaos a guy with a high-power RF frontend and a USRP can do.
Jun 18 09:43:55 <divVerent> just look at the FM frequency table for e.g. frankfurt
Jun 18 09:44:05 <divVerent> the largest distance between two adjacent stations is 0.2 MHz
Jun 18 09:44:33 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, back when we did pirate radio, we had severe problems to cover a 3km radius with a 15W FM transmitter
Jun 18 09:44:37 <divVerent> still, using the FM radio band for such purposes is plain abuse, we all agree on that
Jun 18 09:44:51 <divVerent> if only car radios had Line-In
Jun 18 09:45:02 <DocScrutinizer05> some do
Jun 18 09:45:07 <divVerent> very few, yes
Jun 18 09:45:28 <DocScrutinizer05> checkout motorola usb carkit
Jun 18 09:45:29 <rikanee> divVerent: in-car BT, line-in or USB are essentials for head units nowadays.
Jun 18 09:45:33 <DocScrutinizer05> and cry
Jun 18 09:46:02 <divVerent> rikanee: in the long run, this could indeed solve it
Jun 18 09:46:08 <divVerent> just most people do not have brand new cars
Jun 18 09:46:27 <divVerent> mine is from 2007, has CD and MP3, no line in, no USB
Jun 18 09:46:34 <divVerent> also... many car radios don'
Jun 18 09:46:43 <divVerent> t even have real USB but just "ipod dock"
Jun 18 09:46:46 <rikanee> divVerent: I'm currently saving up $250 to buy a nice, factory-looking replacement head unit.
Jun 18 09:47:02 <DocScrutinizer05> actually line-in on car radio has its very own idiosyncrasies (topic ground loop)
Jun 18 09:47:04 * chainsawbike thinks all you need is an amp connected to the headphone jack...
Jun 18 09:47:24 <divVerent> DocScrutinizer05: ground loop? the thing that shouldn't even happen if it were built right?
Jun 18 09:47:32 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 18 09:47:54 <rikanee> slight annoyance from Toyota integrating the head unit panel with the rest of the console.
Jun 18 09:47:55 <divVerent> as in, a single capacitor at the right point would already fix it?
Jun 18 09:48:03 <divVerent> (apart from a pop noise when plugging in)
Jun 18 09:48:34 <divVerent> how stable is the 12V voltage in the car'
Jun 18 09:48:34 <DocScrutinizer05> divVerent: alas not since car ground"-plane" has lots of noise
Jun 18 09:48:36 <divVerent> s connector BTW?
Jun 18 09:48:43 <divVerent> "very unstable" or "white noise"?
Jun 18 09:48:50 <DocScrutinizer05> very instable
Jun 18 09:48:56 <DocScrutinizer05> with extreme spikes
Jun 18 09:49:04 <divVerent> spikes, even? ugh
Jun 18 09:49:25 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, it fried several GTA02 via cheap USB car chargers
Jun 18 09:49:38 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly  when starting engine
Jun 18 09:49:55 <divVerent> as for audio transmission though... is it so hard to use the voltage DIFFERENCE between the 3.5mm GND and L/R pins?
Jun 18 09:50:10 <DocScrutinizer05> usually not
Jun 18 09:50:18 <divVerent> (ok, this would mean not grounding the GND... which should be allowed, though, or a battery based walkman would already violate it)
Jun 18 09:50:42 <DocScrutinizer05> but to make absolutely sure your mobile device doesn't smoke up, you need galvanically decoubled GND
Jun 18 09:50:50 <DocScrutinizer05> decoupled
Jun 18 09:50:51 <divVerent> yes, i.e. not grounding it
Jun 18 09:51:00 <divVerent> like e.g. the tape deck adaptors do
Jun 18 09:51:02 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jun 18 09:51:21 <divVerent> too bad there are no "CD deck adaptors" :P
Jun 18 09:51:23 <DocScrutinizer05> alas many 'cheap' line-in devices don't do this
Jun 18 09:51:27 <divVerent> wonder how these even COULD work, if at all
Jun 18 09:51:36 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 18 09:51:41 <divVerent> probably not at all
Jun 18 09:51:45 <DocScrutinizer05> good joke
Jun 18 09:51:47 <divVerent> as making an infite looped CD is simply not possible
Jun 18 09:51:49 <DocScrutinizer05> lemme think
Jun 18 09:51:51 <divVerent> given the head moves during playback
Jun 18 09:52:02 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe a IR-LED would already suffice?
Jun 18 09:52:03 <divVerent> the tape adaptors avoid it by not having a tape to be turned :P
Jun 18 09:52:14 <divVerent> IR-LED with proper circuitry would work... for 74 minutes :P
Jun 18 09:52:24 <divVerent> it also would need to move together with the reading head of the drive
Jun 18 09:53:00 <divVerent> and I see no way to avoid the "CD size" limit, no matter how clever the CD emulating circuit is
Jun 18 09:53:02 <DocScrutinizer05> well, the head is moved by guiding gap
Jun 18 09:53:10 <DocScrutinizer05> so you could keep it stationary
Jun 18 09:53:30 <divVerent> wait, a sufficiently broken CD-ROM can make the CD drive not move its head?
Jun 18 09:53:46 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jun 18 09:53:58 <divVerent> I know this works for Vinyl disks, but for CD?
Jun 18 09:54:14 <DocScrutinizer05> commonly known as "your CD hangs"
Jun 18 09:54:18 <divVerent> for vinyl, all you need is a ring instead of a spiral
Jun 18 09:54:36 <divVerent> oh right, CDs are recorded as spirals too...
Jun 18 09:54:43 <divVerent> so chances are the drive would indeed never notice
Jun 18 09:54:51 <DocScrutinizer05> for CD all you need is a scratch and a poorly adjusted CD-player
Jun 18 09:54:59 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jun 18 09:55:09 <divVerent> so emulating an infinite CD may even be possible
Jun 18 09:55:16 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jun 18 09:55:20 <divVerent> well, almost... there is this addressing info on the CD sectors
Jun 18 09:55:24 <divVerent> by which the drive knows where it is
Jun 18 09:55:34 <divVerent> this has to be incremented at each sector... wonder how high that limit is
Jun 18 09:55:59 <DocScrutinizer05> but the drive readout logic resyncs when the head forcefully is relocated to the start of CD
Jun 18 09:56:05 <divVerent> also, what would happen when trying to seek :P
Jun 18 09:56:30 <DocScrutinizer05> trying to seek gets nasty
Jun 18 09:56:50 <divVerent> these tape deck adaptors kinda can take that
Jun 18 09:56:50 <DocScrutinizer05> it would detect end of CD and stop playback
Jun 18 09:56:56 <divVerent> except that the seeking will never stop :P
Jun 18 09:57:54 <DocScrutinizer05> you could copy a normal audio CD to a mini-CD and then try to seek to last take on the original CD
Jun 18 09:58:02 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll see what your drive does
Jun 18 09:59:18 <DocScrutinizer05> the better / smarter drives (nowadays all) extrapolate physical destination location of head from cueuesheet
Jun 18 10:00:11 <DocScrutinizer05> so the drive will locate the head to an area where there is no more physical CD when you playback that mini-CD and try to seek to end
Jun 18 10:00:44 <DocScrutinizer05> then drive readout logic detects there's no optical input anymore and will abort, after some retries
Jun 18 10:01:04 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly focus retries
Jun 18 10:01:39 <DocScrutinizer05> some smarter drives will step back a few millimeters and try again
Jun 18 10:02:36 <DocScrutinizer05> eventually every drive stops playback, or resumes at a point on CD closed to the beginning resp inner tracks
Jun 18 10:03:54 <DocScrutinizer05> btw all this and particularly the cue-sheet make it possible that you have a track -1 on CD. you can seek to this track when seeking backward immediately after starting playback
Jun 18 10:04:19 <jon_y> secret track!?
Jun 18 10:04:25 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 18 10:04:37 <jon_y> ooh
Jun 18 10:05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> I think some commercial music CDs already did that gimmik
Jun 18 10:05:19 <jon_y> is that like some DRM scheme?
Jun 18 10:05:30 <DocScrutinizer05> err, no?
Jun 18 10:06:24 <DocScrutinizer05> it's more like the really funny vinyl records that had two grooves instead of one, on one side
Jun 18 10:06:45 <divVerent> nice trick
Jun 18 10:06:49 <DocScrutinizer05> depending on "random" you get to hear one or the other
Jun 18 10:06:57 <rikanee> some bands hide sekrit tracks, IIRC.
Jun 18 10:07:08 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jun 18 10:07:30 <rikanee> others abuse multi-session support to hide them, last I remember.
Jun 18 10:07:33 <DocScrutinizer05> I think you also can have tracks after cue-sheet end of record
Jun 18 10:08:22 <DocScrutinizer05> you might have noticed some tracks on some CDs start with minus-seconds counting up to zero
Jun 18 10:08:50 <DocScrutinizer05> when you do this on first track, then there's a part of audio track you usually never get to hear
Jun 18 10:09:01 <divVerent> right, basically the first track's "lead-in"
Jun 18 10:09:13 <DocScrutinizer05> you however can seek back from "start" into this "hidden" negative time track
Jun 18 10:09:17 <divVerent> but... a track -1? that "track backwards" hits when at 1? that would be weird
Jun 18 10:09:24 <divVerent> time-seeking can reach this area often, though
Jun 18 10:09:37 <divVerent> i.e. holding the seek button
Jun 18 10:09:48 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's what I said
Jun 18 10:10:03 <DocScrutinizer05> it's the lead in of track one
Jun 18 10:10:08 <divVerent> oh, I thought you meant one can reach this by pressing the seek backwards button... but that would mean the player would count to 0 from 1 :P
Jun 18 10:10:27 <divVerent> and yes, indeed some players seem to play the lead-in of track 1, and some do not
Jun 18 10:10:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and you only can access it by seeking linear backward from start of record
Jun 18 10:11:08 <divVerent> 1. sell CDs with secret track hidden on lead-in
Jun 18 10:11:14 <divVerent> 2. wait for it to appear on pirate sites
Jun 18 10:11:17 <divVerent> 3. let them download
Jun 18 10:11:24 <divVerent> 4. tell everyone about secret track
Jun 18 10:11:27 <DocScrutinizer05> check cue-sheet syntax of cdrdao/cdrecord/xcdroast/whatever
Jun 18 10:11:44 <divVerent> I know cdrdao can do this :P I did this abuse before, but not on track 1 :P
Jun 18 10:12:12 <divVerent> I saw also some CDs do this between track n-1 and track n
Jun 18 10:12:16 <divVerent> label has 
Jun 18 10:12:32 <divVerent> "track n: bonus track", but the real fun is the area between n-1 and n
Jun 18 10:12:56 <DocScrutinizer05> awesome huge lead-in?
Jun 18 10:13:09 <DocScrutinizer05> of bonus track N?
Jun 18 10:13:13 <divVerent> yes
Jun 18 10:13:21 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Jun 18 10:13:29 <divVerent> basically, a variant of the typical "bonus track after long pause"
Jun 18 10:14:01 <divVerent> putting it in lead-in hides it from the pirate sites, mostly :P
Jun 18 10:14:20 <DocScrutinizer05> I hate all the mp3 shit for not properly supporting any of that, particularly MAFW which can't do gapfree
Jun 18 10:15:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly would prefer raw disc image files, incl cue-sheet, and a player that pretends to playback CD
Jun 18 10:15:57 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe flac
Jun 18 10:16:03 <DocScrutinizer05> with cuesheet
Jun 18 10:16:49 <divVerent> on certain sites, ape+cue is common
Jun 18 10:18:51 <DocScrutinizer05> i'd like to learn about those sites, then :-)
Jun 18 10:19:10 <ShadowJK> I've seen flac+cue too
Jun 18 10:20:12 <DocScrutinizer05> basically since that fire ate my Sony 250 (or was it 400?) CD changer player, I stopped listening music
Jun 18 10:24:32 <DocScrutinizer05> divVerent: the problem with "CD adapter" is the mechanics
Jun 18 10:27:14 <DocScrutinizer05> you maybe could even create a acryl lightchannel ring thingie in that adapter that would giude the LED's light to the head no matter which orientation the CD is inserted and where the head actually is positioned. but the rotation that the drive allpies to your "CD" will give you severe headache ;-P
Jun 18 10:27:27 <DocScrutinizer05> s/allpies/applies/
Jun 18 10:27:28 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: you maybe could even create a acryl lightchannel ring thingie in that adapter that would giude the LED's light to the head no matter which orientation the CD is inserted and where the head actually is positioned. but the rotation that the drive applies to...
Jun 18 10:30:25 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what the spindle motor control would do when the clock of the read-in signal is too high no matter how much the spindle motor gets throttled
Jun 18 10:53:54 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: by DRM scheme I mean whatever autorun exe for windows on the 1st data track will try to go to -1 and scan
Jun 18 10:57:43 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: so if the track was missing, it would screw up your drive hardware or something
Jun 18 10:58:00 <jon_y> eg try to flash your drive with /dev/random
Jun 18 10:58:18 <DocScrutinizer05> data track?
Jun 18 10:58:44 <jon_y> well, whatever track that windows picks up the autorun stuff from
Jun 18 10:58:44 <DocScrutinizer05> autorun?
Jun 18 10:59:10 <jon_y> think sony rootkit, but abrasive upfront :)
Jun 18 10:59:22 <DocScrutinizer05> you ever seen windows load any autorun from an audio CD (redbook?)?
Jun 18 10:59:40 <jon_y> if it has a data track, yes
Jun 18 10:59:49 <jon_y> maybe they were called mixed mode
Jun 18 11:00:03 <jon_y> most CD players would ignore the data track anyway
Jun 18 11:00:31 <DocScrutinizer05> or so hoped Sony, eh?
Jun 18 11:00:40 <jon_y> windows would still look for autorun on the data (non-audio) track
Jun 18 11:01:06 <jon_y> I don't know if CD players can go to -1 track
Jun 18 11:01:39 <DocScrutinizer05> there are no tracks as you use the term
Jun 18 11:02:34 <jon_y> Nero calls then data tracks, as opposed to audio tracks
Jun 18 11:02:41 <jon_y> not sure what the correct term is
Jun 18 11:03:19 <jon_y> what are non-audio tracks technically called anyway?
Jun 18 11:03:48 <DocScrutinizer05> what are non-audio tracks?
Jun 18 11:04:23 <jon_y> tracks that contain computer files?
Jun 18 11:05:02 <DocScrutinizer05> on a audio-CD a track is a segment out of the continuous data stream that has basically PCM data, defined by start and end timestamp (simplified picture)
Jun 18 11:06:01 <DocScrutinizer05> so there's no way to have non-audio tracks on a audio CD, afaik
Jun 18 11:06:26 <jon_y> hmm, I've seen CDs with both audio and data
Jun 18 11:06:29 <DocScrutinizer05> (it has cue-sheet aka index, but that's besides the point here)
Jun 18 11:06:43 <jon_y> game CDs from 1997
Jun 18 11:07:21 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, you can have multisession CD but that's already no true audio-CD anymore
Jun 18 11:07:40 <jon_y> ah ok, those are called multisession CDs
Jun 18 11:07:48 <DocScrutinizer05> most players are able to playback multisession CD when first session is an audio-CD format
Jun 18 11:08:40 <DocScrutinizer05> some can even jump a data session I guess
Jun 18 11:08:42 <jon_y> ok, so 2 sessions, where the 2nd session are all audio tracks?
Jun 18 11:10:01 <DocScrutinizer05> but again, that's not a true CDDA http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Books#Red_Book compatible audio-CD anymore
Jun 18 11:10:13 <DocScrutinizer05> and not what we were talking about
Jun 18 11:10:37 <jon_y> ok
Jun 18 11:11:30 <DocScrutinizer05> we were talking about audio tracks which as I already mentioned are defined by start and end point, but also have an entry point, and if that entry point is not == start point, you got a lead-in on that particular audio track
Jun 18 11:14:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~wiki bluebook
Jun 18 11:15:09 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebook (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About|the legal citation style guide||Blue book (disambiguation){{!}}Blue book}} {{italic title}} "'The Bluebook: A Uniform System of Citation"', a style guide, prescribes the most widely used legal citation system in the United States. "The Bluebook" is compiled by the "Harvard Law Review" Association, the "Columbia Law Review", the "University of Pennsylvania Law Review", and the ...
Jun 18 11:16:12 <DocScrutinizer05> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Book_(CD_standard)
Jun 18 11:40:15 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, it's not called lead-in but pre-gap
Jun 18 11:52:16 <SpeedEvil> I have wondered if gapless playback is patented
Jun 18 11:52:35 <SpeedEvil> So the lack of it is to avoid a licence fee.
Jun 18 12:21:53 <teotwaki> SpeedEvil: http://www.google.com/patents/US20100165815
Jun 18 12:30:24 <Shapeshifter> Are the maps stored in mydocs or somewhere on rootfs when caching maps for apps like cloud gps?
Jun 18 12:31:45 <Shapeshifter> and what's the best maps/navi app for the n900 anyway, these days? cloud gps is super smooth indeed but it seems really buggy. Keeps crashing and when searching for something in portrait mode, it gets the orientation of the text the wrong way.
Jun 18 12:38:11 <SpeedEvil> teotwaki: Sigh. Though that patent seems easily sidestepped
Jun 18 12:39:26 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, filter graphs. We don't need friggin filter graphs, we use software instead ;-P
Jun 18 12:52:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, this is weird BS actually assuming a detection method for EOF generic to the audio and capable of cutting silence at end of a media track, no matter if that's intentional silence or not (padding). Furthermore it does same for the queued next "filter graph" aka playback stream/process and puts that one on hold where it thinks audio actually starts. We don't need either, we just need a command cueue in MAFW that sets up next gstreamer 
Jun 18 12:52:28 <DocScrutinizer05> pipe while current pipe plays back, and starts that pre-setup gstreamer process when current process exits (no filters or nifty detections involved!). Then it immediately sets up next gstreamer pipe after SIGSTARTing the preloaded one, and puts that one on SIGSTOP
Jun 18 12:54:02 <HtheB> whatsup doc
Jun 18 12:54:22 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmß
Jun 18 12:54:31 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.google.com/patents/US20100165815
Jun 18 12:55:09 <DocScrutinizer05> Shapeshifter: maps are generally stored on MyDocs
Jun 18 12:55:12 <DocScrutinizer05> see
Jun 18 12:55:16 <DocScrutinizer05> ~optification
Jun 18 12:55:23 <infobot> optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
Jun 18 12:56:18 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: is marble any good?
Jun 18 12:56:31 <divVerent> haha, FHS and /usr...
Jun 18 12:56:43 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I'm using it 
Jun 18 12:56:52 <divVerent> I am not using it any more... damn Poettering
Jun 18 12:57:04 <DocScrutinizer05> tzzz
Jun 18 12:57:10 <divVerent> /bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin are now all symlinks to /usr/bin because systemd is retarded
Jun 18 12:57:22 <divVerent> so much for "/usr separation"
Jun 18 12:57:23 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
Jun 18 12:57:38 <divVerent> if we put everything in /usr now... what did we need the separation for anyway?
Jun 18 12:57:41 <DocScrutinizer05> and that shit will never make it on my machines!
Jun 18 12:57:52 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Jun 18 12:58:05 <divVerent> reason for this is that systemd guys were too stupid to make early boot scripts not use stuff from /usr
Jun 18 12:58:18 <divVerent> or e.g. stuff in /bin using libs from /usr/lib
Jun 18 12:58:38 <divVerent> in Various Distros
Jun 18 12:58:46 <DocScrutinizer05> that's basically what we seen on maemo as well
Jun 18 12:59:02 <divVerent> no distro ever got this right... but instead of actually trying for once
Jun 18 12:59:09 <divVerent> the Lennarts rather wanty to throw away this
Jun 18 12:59:31 <divVerent> also a nice one, PAM modules using stuff from /usr
Jun 18 12:59:35 <divVerent> pam_encfs, pam_sshsomething
Jun 18 12:59:39 <DocScrutinizer05> idiots never will extinguish
Jun 18 12:59:48 <divVerent> in case of these pam modules, it can't really be avoided
Jun 18 12:59:59 <divVerent> instead, pam libs should have been moved below /usr for this :P
Jun 18 13:00:01 <DocScrutinizer05> extinct I meant
Jun 18 13:00:26 <divVerent> too bad they have influence...
Jun 18 13:00:48 <divVerent> systemd itself is quite ok, but... I really don't want poettering to have that power
Jun 18 13:00:52 <divVerent> he ruined linux audio, isn't that enough?
Jun 18 13:01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ack
Jun 18 13:01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> it's about time for a large movement towards poettering-free distros
Jun 18 13:02:02 <divVerent> I mean... why AM I even on systemd? because arch linux tries to avoid patching upstream (good) and there is no more upstream udev outside systemd (BAD BAD BAD)
Jun 18 13:02:05 <HtheB> damn
Jun 18 13:02:11 <HtheB> my rootfs is somehow full
Jun 18 13:02:16 <HtheB> 0% left
Jun 18 13:02:30 <HtheB> how can I clean left over files?
Jun 18 13:02:38 <DocScrutinizer05> rm?
Jun 18 13:02:50 <HtheB> sure rm
Jun 18 13:02:55 <DocScrutinizer05> have a look into /var/log
Jun 18 13:02:58 <HtheB> but which files are safe to rm 
Jun 18 13:03:34 <divVerent> how did you fill it up? maybe that helps
Jun 18 13:04:41 <HtheB> upgraded the cssu
Jun 18 13:04:52 <HtheB> but dont know if that was the reason
Jun 18 13:06:05 <DocScrutinizer05> a du -x /|sort -n my also help
Jun 18 13:06:30 <Shapeshifter> Dammit... What's the correct sources line for the marble repository located here? https://files.kde.org/marble/downloads/maemo/fremantle/ ? I tried just about everything and I always either get an invalid syntax error or a 404
Jun 18 13:06:56 <DocScrutinizer05> hm, you might have hidden files under mountpoints (old unix admin prank)
Jun 18 13:07:13 <HtheB> DocScrutinizer05 still 0%
Jun 18 13:07:24 <DocScrutinizer05> still?
Jun 18 13:07:31 <HtheB> let me show u the outpur of ls * -i 
Jun 18 13:07:33 <HtheB> output
Jun 18 13:10:00 <DocScrutinizer05> wouldn't know how that helps
Jun 18 13:10:32 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway ubifs has a garbage collection that doesn't kick in instantly
Jun 18 13:11:10 <DocScrutinizer05> usually deleting files doesn't instantly free disk space, though after a boot you suddenly have several % free again
Jun 18 13:11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess there are other occasions too on which GC kicks in
Jun 18 13:11:49 <DocScrutinizer05> you may try a sync for example
Jun 18 13:12:14 <DocScrutinizer05> though I'm not sure it helps to kick off GC
Jun 18 13:12:36 <HtheB> oke let me reboot it
Jun 18 13:12:43 <HtheB> altough, here is the pastebin
Jun 18 13:12:56 <HtheB> www.pastebin.com/KXd1B5Ne
Jun 18 13:14:46 <DocScrutinizer05> fine, when I find a duplicate inode, may I win sth?
Jun 18 13:15:45 <HtheB> like? :P
Jun 18 13:15:49 <HtheB> a free hug?
Jun 18 13:16:15 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL @ negative inode numbers starting at >>-268434770 asound<< though
Jun 18 13:16:32 <HtheB> oh darn ir
Jun 18 13:16:33 <HtheB> it
Jun 18 13:16:39 <HtheB> i did ls -i right
Jun 18 13:16:52 <HtheB> had to do ls to show the filesizes
Jun 18 13:17:11 * HtheB fails
Jun 18 13:17:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess negative means virtual?
Jun 18 13:17:50 <HtheB> i dont know :D
Jun 18 13:18:42 <DocScrutinizer05> well, all those negative inodes are in /proc
Jun 18 13:19:12 <DocScrutinizer05> so I wouldn't be too surprised that they use negative inode numbers there to not collide with real inodes
Jun 18 13:21:55 <DocScrutinizer05> hey I built an awesome braindead simple movement detector :-D
Jun 18 13:22:11 <HtheB> doc
Jun 18 13:22:26 <HtheB> www.pastebin.com/rekCSNZG
Jun 18 13:22:32 <HtheB> hope this is more useful lol
Jun 18 13:23:24 <DocScrutinizer05> (actually I build it to detect random resets of my water heater that result in it shutting down LCD backlight for 1s. I simply used my t900 and polled /sys/*/*/*/lux comparing the reading to last one)
Jun 18 13:24:55 <DocScrutinizer05> -rw-------    1 root     root       296.0k Jan  1  1970 core
Jun 18 13:24:59 <DocScrutinizer05> cruft
Jun 18 13:26:28 <HtheB> ?
Jun 18 13:27:31 <HtheB> oke deleted it
Jun 18 13:29:02 <DocScrutinizer05> for the rest I can't say anything. again: look into /var/log7*
Jun 18 13:29:11 <DocScrutinizer05> err /var/log/*
Jun 18 13:29:36 <HtheB> there are only 2 files
Jun 18 13:29:48 <HtheB> each just like 1/2kb or se
Jun 18 13:29:49 <HtheB> or so*
Jun 18 13:29:50 <DocScrutinizer05> and if you had trouble with cssu-t8 you *might* have hidden files covered under /opt
Jun 18 13:29:54 <DocScrutinizer05> or /home
Jun 18 13:30:00 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: how does you battery hold up by the way? I keep having a major problem with battery life. It holds up more or less well for 1 day of use (while being online in 2 sip accounts and one gtalk account, checking emails every 30min), but as soon as I turn on 3G, it takes about 20 minutes and then I get battery warnings and the phone turns off. When I turn it on again and switch back to 2G, I can get several more hours out ...
Jun 18 13:30:06 <Shapeshifter> ... of it. It seems like it's overreacting when the drain increases...
Jun 18 13:30:16 <HtheB> but /opt isn't a part of root?
Jun 18 13:30:24 <HtheB> or am i wrong
Jun 18 13:30:49 <DocScrutinizer05> Shapeshifter: that indicates aged cell that has increased ESR
Jun 18 13:30:56 <Shapeshifter> ESR?
Jun 18 13:30:56 <DocScrutinizer05> get a new battery
Jun 18 13:31:02 <SpeedEvil> Quite.
Jun 18 13:31:05 <DocScrutinizer05> effective series resistance
Jun 18 13:31:20 <DocScrutinizer05> HtheB: that's the point
Jun 18 13:31:40 <HtheB> no hidden files btw within /opt
Jun 18 13:31:42 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: can you recommend a place to buy a replacement battery in europe?
Jun 18 13:32:03 <DocScrutinizer05> when you create a file in /opt before the real /opt volume gets mounted to /opt, then that file is hidden and I dunno how to detect it other than umounting /opt again
Jun 18 13:32:08 <Shapeshifter> I once bought a replacement battery from hong kong for 2.50 USD but I haven't had the nerve to use it >.>
Jun 18 13:32:13 <HtheB> oh hang on
Jun 18 13:32:20 <HtheB> i think i found out the reason now
Jun 18 13:32:23 <HtheB> >.>
Jun 18 13:32:29 <HtheB> now that youve said it
Jun 18 13:32:37 <DocScrutinizer05> var/log/syslog 40MB?
Jun 18 13:33:27 <DocScrutinizer05> Shapeshifter: I buy my replacement batteries in my second hand phone store next house
Jun 18 13:33:48 <DocScrutinizer05> if they sell me a lemon, they get some bitching and give me a replacement
Jun 18 13:34:11 <DocScrutinizer05> usually genuine Nokia batteries, though "used"
Jun 18 13:34:43 <Shapeshifter> mh. I'm not sure if I could trust ebay sellers that they're selling genuine ones
Jun 18 13:34:52 <DocScrutinizer05> since they are "used" I have no trouble when asking for a better one
Jun 18 13:35:25 <HtheB> ive installed like 30 libs
Jun 18 13:35:27 <Shapeshifter> well there aren't really any shops like that in switzerland ;-)
Jun 18 13:35:40 <HtheB> (libs that are actually made for harmattan)
Jun 18 13:35:41 <DocScrutinizer05> (I suspect the guy to sell the bad battery to next idiot ;-P)
Jun 18 13:35:58 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 18 13:36:36 <DocScrutinizer05> Shapeshifter: what? no turkish shops in la suisse?
Jun 18 13:36:50 <HtheB> :D
Jun 18 13:36:51 <DocScrutinizer05> pakistani maybe?
Jun 18 13:36:52 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: not too many. There are a few...
Jun 18 13:36:55 <Shapeshifter> greeks, too
Jun 18 13:36:57 <Shapeshifter> ^^
Jun 18 13:37:06 <HtheB> Shapeshifter, cant be
Jun 18 13:37:14 <HtheB> turkish phone shops are everywhere
Jun 18 13:37:41 <Shapeshifter> is it even possible to tell if a battery is genuine by that 'hologram' ?
Jun 18 13:37:42 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds like "we can't get doener here"
Jun 18 13:37:55 <divVerent> there is clearly a lot of such shops in Zürich... but these shops look like I don't want to enter
Jun 18 13:38:02 <divVerent> small shop, huge mobile carrier name, looks dirty
Jun 18 13:38:16 <divVerent> DocScrutinizer05: haha, we can, at 3x normal price and 75% doener size
Jun 18 13:38:22 <DocScrutinizer05> that's exactly the kind of shop ;-)
Jun 18 13:38:23 <Shapeshifter> divVerent: true that.
Jun 18 13:38:28 <HtheB> divVerent real Halal?
Jun 18 13:38:39 <divVerent> I don't care, I am not paying SFr 10 for a doener
Jun 18 13:39:02 <divVerent> probably equally halal as elsewhere...
Jun 18 13:39:16 <HtheB> real halal meat cost a lot
Jun 18 13:39:17 <divVerent> I mean, a muslim CAN eat horses :P
Jun 18 13:39:22 <HtheB> lol!
Jun 18 13:39:25 <HtheB> well...
Jun 18 13:39:33 <HtheB> its not the best though
Jun 18 13:39:35 <HtheB> :P
Jun 18 13:39:38 <divVerent> (actually, I am not so sure about that part...
Jun 18 13:39:40 <HtheB> i rather have cow..
Jun 18 13:39:52 <HtheB> it's not haram (forbidden) but uhmmm
Jun 18 13:39:58 <divVerent> would first have to look up the weird rules from the old testament the Muslims based theirs on)
Jun 18 13:40:00 <HtheB> you can't eat it untill you really starf
Jun 18 13:40:08 <HtheB> and you may only eat 1 leg
Jun 18 13:40:23 <divVerent> like, for knowing if you can eat it, you need to look at the hooves firts :P
Jun 18 13:40:26 <DocScrutinizer05> rotfl
Jun 18 13:40:32 <HtheB> lol
Jun 18 13:40:54 <HtheB> well, every animal that you slaught should be healthy
Jun 18 13:41:37 <DocScrutinizer05> well, at McDo I'd rather worry about the packaging ;-P
Jun 18 13:41:37 <teotwaki> slaughter
Jun 18 13:41:50 <teotwaki> DocScrutinizer05: when you say packaging, you mean the fat around the food?
Jun 18 13:41:56 <Shapeshifter> I also often have problems with the SIM card. Becomes 'unrecognized' and I have to reboot the phone. Have cleaned the connectors and card several times over...
Jun 18 13:42:08 <Shapeshifter> really, the n900 isn't exactly holding up to nokia rep
Jun 18 13:42:17 <teotwaki> it isn't?
Jun 18 13:42:21 <Shapeshifter> At least the usb port problem is easily fixed.
Jun 18 13:42:25 <Shapeshifter> (in advance)
Jun 18 13:42:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean the wrapper or box that allegedly is the only valuable nutrition in their food
Jun 18 13:42:29 <teotwaki> I've had one since late 2009, been in use since then, nothing's failed.
Jun 18 13:42:39 <divVerent> DocScrutinizer05: this has an advantage too
Jun 18 13:42:43 <DocScrutinizer05> but might not be halal ;-)
Jun 18 13:42:45 <divVerent> as a vegan, you can eat anything as McD's
Jun 18 13:42:56 <divVerent> I mean, they cannot put any animals in there, they use cheap chemical stuff :P
Jun 18 13:43:50 <DocScrutinizer05> teotwaki: same here
Jun 18 13:44:03 <DocScrutinizer05> except that early flex cable issue
Jun 18 13:44:23 <teotwaki> my nokia uUSB cable is still my main cable
Jun 18 13:44:26 <teotwaki> for all my devices.
Jun 18 13:44:44 <teotwaki> I literally have it with me everywhere.
Jun 18 13:44:55 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean the flex connector aka display PCB
Jun 18 13:45:08 <teotwaki> ah
Jun 18 13:45:18 <teotwaki> had that issue on the n810
Jun 18 13:45:28 <teotwaki> never had it on the n900
Jun 18 13:45:36 <teotwaki> though iirc, lcuk had it happen to him twice.
Jun 18 13:45:47 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I triggered it by disassembly
Jun 18 13:46:25 <DocScrutinizer05> must've been semi-broken before, since... EE... you know. I'm not using sledge hammer usually
Jun 18 13:47:54 <DocScrutinizer05> and, well, it returned from Nokia repair with power button quite defect
Jun 18 13:48:07 <DocScrutinizer05> which funny enough repaired itself over the years
Jun 18 13:49:05 * DocScrutinizer05 glares at those 25 pcs 0.06F capacitors, coin type
Jun 18 13:49:30 <DocScrutinizer05> PAS414
Jun 18 13:49:51 <DocScrutinizer05> PAS414HR even
Jun 18 13:50:08 <HtheB> doc
Jun 18 13:50:13 <HtheB> time to flash i guess
Jun 18 13:50:15 <HtheB> it's dead
Jun 18 13:50:19 <DocScrutinizer05> that's no highlight here
Jun 18 13:50:32 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm?
Jun 18 13:50:54 <DocScrutinizer05> you removed all your harmattan libs and a few more?
Jun 18 13:51:02 <HtheB> i cant remove them
Jun 18 13:51:05 <HtheB> thats the point
Jun 18 13:51:10 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Jun 18 13:51:22 <HtheB> =(
Jun 18 13:51:53 <DocScrutinizer05> how's that?
Jun 18 13:51:54 <HtheB> (by dead, i mean the n900 is in coma)
Jun 18 13:51:59 <HtheB> i try to delete
Jun 18 13:52:04 <HtheB> but it gives me errors like
Jun 18 13:52:59 <HtheB> <package> depends on <package>; however: package <package> is to be removed.
Jun 18 13:53:25 <DocScrutinizer05> err what? you installed harmattan libs via apt?
Jun 18 13:53:27 <HtheB> but i did just dpkg -r <packages>
Jun 18 13:53:38 <HtheB> :nod:
Jun 18 13:53:57 <HtheB> well, they are .deb files...
Jun 18 13:53:59 <HtheB> how else was it going to be?
Jun 18 13:54:00 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, no clue how to fix that
Jun 18 13:54:18 <HtheB> fml
Jun 18 13:54:20 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm just surprised it worked
Jun 18 13:54:30 <HtheB> i tried meecolay
Jun 18 13:54:52 <HtheB> to run harmattan apps on maemo
Jun 18 13:54:59 <HtheB> somehow, all libs installed
Jun 18 13:55:00 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
Jun 18 13:55:15 <HtheB> the libs that I couldnt find, i just ripped them off, of harmattan /usr/lib
Jun 18 13:55:22 <HtheB> and pasted in the N900 one
Jun 18 13:55:51 <jaska> O.o
Jun 18 13:55:55 <DocScrutinizer05> well, and if you just rm them now?
Jun 18 13:57:15 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess meecolay would use some ld_preload or LD_LIBRARAYPATH or whatever to load the meego libs, and not expect them in default location for maemo libs
Jun 18 13:57:47 <HtheB> wrong
Jun 18 13:58:00 <HtheB> somehow everytime i try to run it, it told me that I miss a library
Jun 18 13:58:11 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, I hardly can give any reasonable advice how to fix that
Jun 18 13:58:15 <HtheB> at the end, i was done collecting like 30 libraries :D
Jun 18 13:58:21 <HtheB> no prob
Jun 18 13:58:52 <DocScrutinizer05> and now I'm afk and busy with RL
Jun 18 14:01:51 <HtheB> thx doc, i think my problem is solved with apt-get install -f
Jun 18 14:02:29 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes that helps, yeah
Jun 18 14:02:49 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes it does more damage than good
Jun 18 14:04:26 <DocScrutinizer05> HtheB: maybe this comes in handy for you:
Jun 18 14:04:28 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# cat `which what-installed-when`
Jun 18 14:04:30 <DocScrutinizer05> #!/bin/sh
Jun 18 14:04:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort 
Jun 18 14:05:22 <DocScrutinizer05> and yeah, i know it's parsing ls output, which is an absolute nogo usually
Jun 18 14:08:27 <HtheB> woohoo
Jun 18 14:08:31 <HtheB> 86% used
Jun 18 14:08:40 <HtheB> instead of 100% after apt-get install -f
Jun 18 14:09:01 <HtheB> also, removed all libs manually that were copy pasted
Jun 18 14:09:32 <Shapeshifter> http://www.jabawok.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/20120726_N900-gsm-chips-spring-fix03.jpg >.>
Jun 18 14:09:43 <Shapeshifter> Why exactly does this work?
Jun 18 14:11:06 <Shapeshifter> GSM chips coming off from the board?
Jun 18 14:12:18 <DocScrutinizer05> LANG=en_EN ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort 
Jun 18 14:12:27 <DocScrutinizer05> LANG=en_EN ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort | less
Jun 18 14:12:51 <DocScrutinizer05> Shapeshifter: basically yes, though I think none of the chips shown there *is* the BB5
Jun 18 14:13:02 <Shapeshifter> mh
Jun 18 14:13:17 <DocScrutinizer05> and WTF doe maemo ignore LANG=C ?!
Jun 18 14:13:38 <Shapeshifter> I also keep having this problem https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7060 (totally green and dark pictures under low light conditions when using flash)
Jun 18 14:13:40 <povbot_> 04Bug 7060: Sometimes photos are very green
Jun 18 14:13:47 <Shapeshifter> It says this was fixed but it clearly isn't.
Jun 18 14:14:08 <Shapeshifter> https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=2541
Jun 18 14:14:24 <DocScrutinizer05> it's fixed in cam module firmware or drivers
Jun 18 14:15:44 <Shapeshifter> It's still taking green pictures is what I'm saying.
Jun 18 14:18:38 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: how much do you usually pay for your 'used' batteries?
Jun 18 14:18:48 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm OK the big one indeed is rapuyama
Jun 18 14:19:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ~8 bucks
Jun 18 14:23:08 <DocScrutinizer05> ~#maemo cmtfix is http://www.jabawok.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/20120726_N900-gsm-chips-spring-fix03.jpg
Jun 18 14:23:09 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05: okay
Jun 18 14:24:11 <DocScrutinizer05> Shapeshifter: mine works now, after I think PR.1.1.1 update
Jun 18 14:24:22 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: ever heard of "powercell"? apparently a german producer (certainly made in china...) but apparently they don't explode.
Jun 18 14:24:26 <DocScrutinizer05> (camera)
Jun 18 14:24:29 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: mhh.
Jun 18 14:25:09 <DocScrutinizer05> well, there are not many cell manufs
Jun 18 14:25:28 <Shapeshifter> "polarcell" actually.
Jun 18 14:25:32 <DocScrutinizer05> and they got better regarding exploding cells
Jun 18 14:26:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I killed one noname battery when I heated it up to check the BSI resistor for NTC properties
Jun 18 14:27:01 <DocScrutinizer05> it became quite hot and then "pregnant"
Jun 18 14:27:21 <Shapeshifter> ouch
Jun 18 14:27:31 <DocScrutinizer05> but didn't even vent
Jun 18 14:27:43 * Shapeshifter just realized that his current battery isn't an original. Came with the phone (second hand N900)
Jun 18 14:28:01 <DocScrutinizer05> well, then...
Jun 18 14:28:12 <DocScrutinizer05> no surprise it has high ESR
Jun 18 14:28:18 <Shapeshifter> I need to find one of those turkish shops and check out their batteries
Jun 18 14:28:52 <DocScrutinizer05> all my supposedly genuine nokia bl-5j are still in pretty good condition
Jun 18 14:29:17 <DocScrutinizer05> charging the one in use daily
Jun 18 14:29:23 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: does it matter how old unused batteries are? I.e. if I buy one off ebay it could be that it's been sitting in storage for 5 years or more.
Jun 18 14:29:34 <DocScrutinizer05> the trick is to never deplete them completely
Jun 18 14:30:02 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, *usually* they should survive that
Jun 18 14:31:02 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh the urban legend is that a LiIon is considered dead after 5 years no matter what you did to them
Jun 18 14:31:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess when it still has voltage, then it's probably still ok
Jun 18 14:32:14 <DocScrutinizer05> when it can't start your phone when unpacked and inserted, then better don't even try to charge it
Jun 18 14:32:50 <DocScrutinizer05> reminds me to recharge all my gta02-batteries
Jun 18 14:33:57 <Shapeshifter> I just noticed my trusted retailer has one in stock. Ordered it, 19chf. At least like this I know it's certainly genuine.
Jun 18 14:34:19 <Shapeshifter> yay, long live my N900 ^^
Jun 18 14:35:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ~weather EDDN
Jun 18 14:36:01 <infobot> Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2013.06.18 1420 UTC; Dew Point: 60 F (16 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.97 in. Hg (1015 hPa); Relative Humidity: 34%; Temperature: 93 F (34 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (050 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT)
Jun 18 14:37:03 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: You live in nürnberg?
Jun 18 14:38:23 <Shapeshifter> Now I understand why you visit turkish shops. I've never met nicer turkish people than in nürnberg for some reasons. Nice place. Good döner, too. There's at least one that makes their own bread for dürüm. None of that pre packaged stuff.
Jun 18 14:38:48 <Shapeshifter> mhh, nice. marble with monav navigation actually works rather well.
Jun 18 14:38:53 <Shapeshifter> offline, that is
Jun 18 15:13:05 <BCMM> i've booted rescueOS on my messed up n900 and executed mass-storage-enable.sh. i'm only seeing one USB MSC disk, no MyDocs. am i doing someting wrong?
Jun 18 15:27:01 <DocScrutinizer05> well, check the mass-storage-enable.sh, it might fail for e.g. no /home/user/MyDoc available to umount, or whatever
Jun 18 15:27:51 <DocScrutinizer05> you might execute the cmdlines in mass-storage-enable.sh manually, one by one, and see what you get from stderr and return code
Jun 18 15:29:31 <DocScrutinizer05> eeeek, vulnerabilities in VLC
Jun 18 15:30:03 <DocScrutinizer05>  <https://www.trustwave.com/spiderlabs/advisories/TWSL2013-007.txt>  (yeah I know that's 8 days old)
Jun 18 15:32:59 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer05: i got it mounted on the device and ftp working over USB networking. any idea how much slower than MSC that's going to be?
Jun 18 15:33:53 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: talking of vulnerabilities, this is a fun read http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=517e3042992452b90e20ff8464130ac6&t=1275572
Jun 18 15:35:03 <Shapeshifter> http://www.zamfoo.com/updatezamfoo this is especially funny
Jun 18 15:35:26 <BCMM> heh
Jun 18 15:36:04 <BCMM> since it's burried deep in the thread, the vuln is something like blah.php?date=`command goes here`
Jun 18 15:39:12 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer05: anything I need to do to "break in" a new battery so that it lasts longer?
Jun 18 15:50:15 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer05: do i need to take some action to make the phone charge while i'm moving data over MSC?
Jun 18 15:58:30 <DocScrutinizer05> BCMM: actually I don't know
Jun 18 15:59:03 <DocScrutinizer05> (sftp) I copied 15GB from device last night, took ~3..4h
Jun 18 16:00:18 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer05: i just realised i need MSC anyway
Jun 18 16:00:34 <BCMM> there's no ssh, and i don't think rsync works over ftp
Jun 18 16:04:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I dount there even is any ftp. I however wonder why there's no sshd
Jun 18 16:04:27 <DocScrutinizer05> doubt*
Jun 18 16:06:46 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer05: thanks, i took apart the shell script and told it to export only mydocs, not home and mydocs. looks to be working fine
Jun 18 16:07:12 <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much :-)
Jun 18 16:07:15 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Jun 18 17:26:59 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: Sorry I didn't spot the typo :(
Jun 18 18:15:22 <DocScrutinizer05> p
Jun 18 18:15:25 <DocScrutinizer05> np
Jun 18 19:57:03 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer05: uh, how do i restore a CSSU n900 from backups anyway? do i need to enable CSSU before i restore the backup?
Jun 18 19:57:09 <BCMM> (using osso-backup)
Jun 18 19:57:39 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jun 18 19:57:50 <DocScrutinizer05> you should
Jun 18 19:58:45 <DocScrutinizer05> since otherwise you probably will either miss apps that gpt installed from cssu repos, or you enable repos by the backup that should get enabled by cssu-enabler
Jun 18 19:58:59 <DocScrutinizer05> got*
Jun 18 20:02:26 <BCMM> thx
Jun 18 20:23:35 <DocScrutinizer05> BCMM: and you probably should install backupmenu then before you restroe anything, and make a backup of a clean fresh system. Restore might be easier then new installation, if you ever whant to roll back
Jun 18 20:24:15 <DocScrutinizer05> than*
Jun 18 21:05:57 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer05: why would i want a clean install rather than a restored install?
Jun 18 21:06:44 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, I don't get that. Any way that's not what I suggested
Jun 18 21:07:06 <chem|st> cssu-s 6.1...
Jun 18 21:08:12 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer05: sorry, i mean a backup of a clean install
Jun 18 21:09:13 <DocScrutinizer05> because a restore of a clean system can get done locally, while to install cssu anew you need internet etc
Jun 18 21:09:43 <DocScrutinizer05> also you can do partial restores of single files etc from a BM backup
Jun 18 21:11:19 <DocScrutinizer05> so if e.g. your rcS-late got messed up and you want to restore the original CSSU version, you don't need to do a full reflash plus cssu install, you simply pick rcs-late from your BM backup
Jun 18 21:12:19 <DocScrutinizer05> and generally there's a golden rule: always make a backup *before* you restore sth, so you can undo the restore
Jun 18 21:13:16 <DocScrutinizer05> likewise always make a backup before you install sth, so you can roll back the installation
Jun 18 21:53:08 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer05: does osso-backup remove files at all? or just add?
Jun 18 21:53:40 <BCMM> cause i'm pretty sure there's things missing from the backup taken after things went wrong, but i have an older backup
Jun 18 21:56:04 <Pali> do not know, osso-backup is close source
Jun 19 00:10:34 <Win7Mac> :tschingeling: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1353071#post1353071
Jun 19 00:21:32 <Win7Mac> Do we need a new banner when elections are actually running? Like flashing crazy or something?
Jun 19 00:40:19 <Win7Mac> GeneralAntilles + others, are my answers to candidature somewhat satisfactory to you?
Jun 19 01:23:30 <Win7Mac> amazing graph animation of community development upon Canon camera hacks, check the video: http://nofilmschool.com/2013/06/magic-lantern-progress-canon-dslr/
Jun 19 01:24:07 <Win7Mac> me/ says good night peeps
Jun 19 02:01:03 <GeneralAntilles> Haha. That's a bigger wall o' text than I was expecting.
Jun 19 02:49:06 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 19 02:59:58 2013