**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 20 02:59:59 2013
Jun 20 05:21:28 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/20/microsoft_nokia_merger_no_go/
Jun 20 05:22:19 <Bambi_BOFH> hm... nokia... i've heard of them before somewhere :)
Jun 20 05:22:24 <bef0rd> http://img.pandawhale.com/41622-Grumpy-cat-good-uUqS.jpeg
Jun 20 07:52:27 <fw190> morning Maemo ;)
Jun 20 07:55:30 <bertogg> hey, is extras-devel working fine?
Jun 20 07:56:21 <fw190> yesterday it was working
Jun 20 07:56:35 <fw190> I have updated pasta programs just fine ;)
Jun 20 07:56:35 <bertogg> I uploaded a new package but it doesn't appear there yet
Jun 20 07:56:41 <fw190> ahhhh
Jun 20 07:56:50 <fw190> maybe there is still a problem wt autobuilder
Jun 20 07:57:03 <bertogg> ok, I'll just wait then
Jun 20 10:16:45 <Win7Mac> good morning! 
Jun 20 10:29:21 <bertogg> hey, is the autobuilder down?
Jun 20 10:41:22 <DocScrutinizer05> Win7Mac: morning
Jun 20 10:45:20 <DocScrutinizer05> bertogg: no, orphaned
Jun 20 10:45:40 <bertogg> DocScrutinizer05: so how does one get new packages to extras?
Jun 20 10:49:14 <Wizzup> bertogg: I think it generally takes a long time for packages to appear
Jun 20 10:49:25 <bertogg> Wizzup: ok
Jun 20 10:50:34 <DocScrutinizer05> bertogg: simple: learn how autobuilder is supposed to work, become autobuilder maintainer, fix autobuilder, watch packages go to extras
Jun 20 10:52:21 <bertogg> I'm not interested, I just wanted to know if it was a known problem or what
Jun 20 10:52:25 <bertogg> thanks for the info
Jun 20 10:52:57 <DocScrutinizer05> well, yes, to techstaff the problems with autobuilder and maemo.org at large are known
Jun 20 10:53:42 <DocScrutinizer05> this however doesn't mean we have somebody with sufficient expertise to fix those problems
Jun 20 10:53:55 <bertogg> yes I understand
Jun 20 10:54:11 <bertogg> I'm not blaming anyone ;) I just wanted to know what was going on
Jun 20 11:09:32 <vi__> Is it possible to control the vibration motor voltage?
Jun 20 11:11:55 <vi__> And therefore the motor frequency?
Jun 20 11:48:59 <DocScrutinizer05> no, and yes
Jun 20 11:49:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Jun 20 11:49:15 <DocScrutinizer05> not voltage but pulse width
Jun 20 11:53:27 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: echo 100 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030\:vibrator/brightness
Jun 20 11:53:54 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, it's indeed a 'LED', don't ask me what those kernel devs smoked
Jun 20 11:57:33 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: or do you want to edit your mci vibrator profiles? then look into /etc/mci/mci.ini
Jun 20 11:58:07 <DocScrutinizer05> you can do nifty think there. with ramp-up and ramp-down times and whatnot else
Jun 20 11:58:37 <DocScrutinizer05> even actively *break* the vibrator motor by shorting it, aiui
Jun 20 11:58:59 <DocScrutinizer05> not break like "defect" but like "stop it"
Jun 20 11:59:06 <DocScrutinizer05> bake?
Jun 20 11:59:14 <DocScrutinizer05> brake even
Jun 20 11:59:46 <DocScrutinizer05> damn, this heat makes my speech processor throttle
Jun 20 12:00:14 <DocScrutinizer05> thus bake probably been right ;-P
Jun 20 12:04:53 <DocScrutinizer05> vi__: for twl4030\:vibrator/brightness you should avoid values <20 iirc. They might not kick off the vobra motor and thus cause huge powerdrain and heat
Jun 20 12:06:29 <DocScrutinizer05> and I don't know what's maximum for that value (for indicator LED for example you easily can burnout the LED by setting current and brightness too high - similr situation might apply to vibra motor)
Jun 20 12:07:05 <DocScrutinizer05> logic max is 255 iirc
Jun 20 12:07:50 <DocScrutinizer05> technical sweetspot seems around 130..160
Jun 20 12:08:01 <DocScrutinizer05> (max effect)
Jun 20 12:14:33 <DocScrutinizer05> which reminds me that I managed to completely freeze the whole system with a cd /sys/class/leds/twl4030\:vibrator; while true; do echo 100 >brightness; echo 0 >brightness; done;
Jun 20 12:15:13 <DocScrutinizer05> *completely*
Jun 20 12:15:36 <DocScrutinizer05> not even the shell executing that loop accepted a ^C anymore
Jun 20 12:15:58 <DocScrutinizer05> but that's been a few years ago and probably even another platform
Jun 20 12:16:58 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe nevertheless worth a test nowadays
Jun 20 12:19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> GOD!!! that pr1.2+/hostmode-kernel device sucks donkeyballs at booting
Jun 20 12:20:56 <DocScrutinizer05> you can't boot dat shite with poweplug, always enetrs act_dead mode
Jun 20 12:21:07 <DocScrutinizer05> after ages of black screen
Jun 20 12:24:24 <DocScrutinizer05> actually an art to boot up that device when battery flat
Jun 20 12:27:26 <DocScrutinizer05> GRRR and bq27200 didn't calibrate despite my carefully checking VDQ:1 and stopping bme
Jun 20 12:28:58 <DocScrutinizer05>       mv   RSOC CSOC mA   NAC  CACD CACT TTF   TTE   TEMP EDV1 LOW
Jun 20 12:28:59 <DocScrutinizer05> 19:34 2905 0    0    -15  0    0    0    65535 0     30  1
Jun 20 12:29:01 <DocScrutinizer05> 19:35 2895 0    0    -17  0    0    0    65535 0     30  1
Jun 20 12:29:28 <DocScrutinizer05> 19:41 2865 0    0    -15  0    0    0    65535 0     31  1
Jun 20 12:29:30 <DocScrutinizer05> Write failed: Broken pipe
Jun 20 12:30:34 <DocScrutinizer05> before:
Jun 20 12:30:36 <DocScrutinizer05> 19:17 3004 5    5    -16  89   89   89   65535 323   30  1
Jun 20 12:30:38 <DocScrutinizer05> 19:18 2999 0    0    -15  0    0    0    65535 0     30  1
Jun 20 12:32:33 <DocScrutinizer05> still, after boot: http://privatepaste.com/e09f97219b
Jun 20 12:41:22 <DocScrutinizer05> also wtf, no diff on stock fremantle?
Jun 20 12:41:35 <DocScrutinizer05> aka 2in messybox"?
Jun 20 12:42:26 <DocScrutinizer05> look, another crystal clear indication for
Jun 20 12:42:31 <DocScrutinizer05> ~messybox
Jun 20 12:42:31 <infobot> [messybox] messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Jun 20 12:44:05 <DocScrutinizer05> this is why I think it's not a brilliant idea to try teach messybox new tricks, rather bring a proper shell with proper comprehensive unix tools to fremantle, for those who want a decent interactive shell
Jun 20 12:46:17 <DocScrutinizer05> for those who are in fact not content with messybox since for example swapon missing parameters they would need during boot/systeminit, augmenting messybox to bb-p is probably the wrong idea either. You rather get a decent swapon binary and patch away messybox swapon applet via alternatives or whatever
Jun 20 12:47:51 <DocScrutinizer05> busybox simply violates elementary unix design paradigms
Jun 20 12:50:48 <DocScrutinizer05> basically busybox is like a ghettoblaster where you got cassette player, CD player, radio, battery, powersupply, speakers, antenna, headphone amp, everything in one box
Jun 20 12:52:00 <DocScrutinizer05> for a certain usecase that's fine, but you can't augment, replace, or fix any of the components easily, and you always have to carry the whole cruft with you instead of just taking the things with you that your actually need
Jun 20 12:54:00 <DocScrutinizer05> the unix toolbox concept however is 100% diametrically th eopposite of such design. You got zillions of small function blocks that can do just one thing but that one thing they are perfect in doing. And all those function blocks have same plugs for all inputs and outputs
Jun 20 12:54:26 <kerio> DocScrutinizer05 ranting against busybox
Jun 20 12:54:28 <kerio> shocking
Jun 20 12:54:32 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 20 12:55:24 <joga> swiss army knives aren't very good in whatever functionality they have..but at least all of it fits in the pocket
Jun 20 12:55:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm basically not ranting against busybox, I'm ranting against those who think busybox needs to get improved
Jun 20 12:56:16 <DocScrutinizer05> joga: which been the *ONLY* rationale why busybox got used for maemo 
Jun 20 12:57:17 <joga> guess so
Jun 20 12:57:24 <DocScrutinizer05> and for that particular purpose of executing init scripts busybox is... almost perfect
Jun 20 12:58:04 <DocScrutinizer05> but teaching busybox to become a proper interactive shell is like teaching a corgy to be a panther
Jun 20 12:59:00 <joga> heh
Jun 20 13:00:08 <joga> surely there's stuff to improve without ending up implementing all of said utilities again
Jun 20 13:00:32 <DocScrutinizer05> hell, I know busybox from very first beta that got released, and i always wondered why the heck anybody would bother to build such thing. For embedded with scarce resources it makes sense, but then for such environment it doesn't make any sense at all to bloat busybox to a degree where it could compete with a true shell plus unix tools
Jun 20 13:02:55 <DocScrutinizer05> and nothing on maemo needs to get re-implemented. We got all commandline tools either as package already or we can build them from source by pressing a button, a nobrainer.
Jun 20 13:04:48 <joga> yeah, I meant in general that it should be improved as the army knife it is
Jun 20 13:05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> no need for that either
Jun 20 13:05:09 <joga> it's perfect already?
Jun 20 13:05:14 <DocScrutinizer05> nobody wants to use it as an interactive shell anyway
Jun 20 13:05:27 <DocScrutinizer05> so why improve it unless it has bugs
Jun 20 13:06:07 <joga> sometimes using it has been the path of least resistance, so it could be less irritating
Jun 20 13:06:36 <rikanee> but Busybox's ash syntax sux.
Jun 20 13:06:58 <rikanee> then again, most everything was in Upstart init syntax, which sux real hard.
Jun 20 13:07:14 <rikanee> so I guess the OSSO team was full of… masochists?
Jun 20 13:07:57 <DocScrutinizer05> look, when you get an account on a arbitrary new system, say maybe your new distro you installed, and you find it has cshell for your default shell, what will you do? will you try to improve csh so you can finally live with it, or do you simply do a sudo chsh -s /bin/bash <myself> ?
Jun 20 13:09:52 <joga> DocScrutinizer05, assuming bash is available, sure I'll just pick that :;
Jun 20 13:09:55 <joga> :)
Jun 20 13:15:10 <joga> heh I know a guy who uses twm because "it's the standard window manager" :)
Jun 20 13:18:38 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: ^^^ see my above rant regarding busybox(-power)
Jun 20 13:18:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I still fail to see why we need bb-p in cssu
Jun 20 13:20:22 <DocScrutinizer05> if somebody is so in love with bb-p that (s)he prefers it over bash, then (s)he is free to install in to /usr/bin/ash2 or /usr/bin/busybox-power or whatever, and make it their default shell.
Jun 20 13:20:33 <ecc3g> ugh...dont remind me. my employer uses csh and it's pretty much forced upon.  chsh to bash breaks a lot of scripts and not worth the effort to fix, so I learned to cope with the frustrations of csh...
Jun 20 13:22:24 <DocScrutinizer05> is your employer ericsson or st-micro? ;-P
Jun 20 13:22:53 <ecc3g> no but thanks for giving me reasons to avoid those companies =p
Jun 20 13:23:04 <DocScrutinizer05> or does your job have anything to do with android?
Jun 20 13:23:11 <ecc3g> nope
Jun 20 13:23:35 <ecc3g> android uses csh??!?!
Jun 20 13:23:44 <DocScrutinizer05> (not all in android is csh based, but parts or certain forks seem to be)
Jun 20 13:24:00 <jaska> hmm
Jun 20 13:24:02 <ecc3g> Hmm... think I should go buy a cheap android phone to play with...
Jun 20 13:24:08 <jaska> they should make busybox include csh!
Jun 20 13:24:13 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g part of the fork used in st-e
Jun 20 13:24:17 <ecc3g> oh god...
Jun 20 13:24:23 <jaska> (sorry, trolling)
Jun 20 13:24:27 <ecc3g> heh :)
Jun 20 13:24:42 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D
Jun 20 13:25:25 <Win7Mac> BoD-meeting info: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1353462#post1353462
Jun 20 13:27:32 <DocScrutinizer05> re that pr1.2++/hostmode-kernel system I mentioned above: it really gives me a laugh each time I boot it and it comes up with a chime and a notifier "384 new mails", sth that it never does during the rest of uptime. Seems modest never again gets started, but one time during hildon-startup it does check for new mail
Jun 20 13:35:08 <Win7Mac> GeneralAntilles: leveraged?
Jun 20 13:57:49 <tzafrir> so, any idea what I should do with my n900 that most of the times won't ring?
Jun 20 13:58:18 <tzafrir> When it does ring, it uses the default ring tone and not the ring tone I set it to use
Jun 20 14:12:47 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe reflash?
Jun 20 14:14:03 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh you rproblems sound like sth wrong with your $HOME
Jun 20 14:14:28 <DocScrutinizer05> have you updated to cssu-t8 ?
Jun 20 14:15:36 <DocScrutinizer05> what does your mount show for eMMC? aka mmcblk0p2
Jun 20 14:17:31 <DocScrutinizer05> wow, wtf goes on on repo?
Jun 20 14:20:59 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, somebody mirroring or spidering *.maemo.org it seems
Jun 20 14:25:21 <Win7Mac> BTW, is the new switch already in place?
Jun 20 14:38:51 <tzafrir> DocScrutinizer05, /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home type ext3 (noatime,nodiratime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback)
Jun 20 14:39:30 <tzafrir> I'm on the testing community repo
Jun 20 14:46:00 <tzafrir> tried upgrading with apt-get . libstdc++ and libgcc1 were not up-to-date and apt-get was having problems with updating them
Jun 20 14:46:10 <tzafrir> Installed aptitude. aptitude upgrade worked
Jun 20 14:52:26 <tzafrir> I'm trying to change something in the Phone settings in the Settings. I press Save, but when I go back, the old value is used.
Jun 20 14:52:33 <tzafrir> Where are the settings saved?
Jun 20 15:00:09 <tzafrir> maybe that *and* a reboot fixed it.
Jun 20 15:06:31 <DocScrutinizer05> what, you updated libstdc++ and libgcc?
Jun 20 15:08:52 <vi__> The reason I asked about the motor was some stupid idea I was thinking about using it as a speaker.
Jun 20 15:25:38 <Woody14619> Off to lunch... o/
Jun 20 16:24:16 <Lava_Croft> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90517
Jun 20 16:27:40 <Raimu> Why is there a character limit in modest?
Jun 20 16:28:16 <Raimu> Some of the monthly e-mail aggregates I receive trigger a "character limit reached" warning on modest.
Jun 20 16:29:38 <Raimu> I'm checking some of the documentation on the app and this limit isn't mentioned as far as I can find.
Jun 20 16:37:24 <sixwheeledbeast> DocScrutinizer05: Did you see <<<<(20/06/13 00:15:35) sixwheeledbeast: <<(18:46:13) DocScrutinizer05: if you can't reproduce this, then I'd be highly interested to hear about it>>  http://privatepaste.com/dd88063566>>>>
Jun 20 16:37:46 <DocScrutinizer05> err yes
Jun 20 16:38:03 <DocScrutinizer05> which system, which kernel?
Jun 20 16:38:35 <sixwheeledbeast> what do you think, I have done this on two of my devices. Both CSSU-S and KP52
Jun 20 16:38:54 <DocScrutinizer05> cssu-t and stock kernel here
Jun 20 16:39:30 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe somebody "fixed" that in PK?
Jun 20 16:39:46 <sixwheeledbeast> Does the KP fix this? Should I ping Pali?
Jun 20 16:39:54 <DocScrutinizer05> after all it's a long known annoyance
Jun 20 16:40:17 <DocScrutinizer05> even heritage from diablo
Jun 20 16:40:56 <DocScrutinizer05> check changelog for "persistent devicenames" or sth similar
Jun 20 16:42:11 <sixwheeledbeast> kernel powers changelog is located where, in source?
Jun 20 16:44:23 <sixwheeledbeast> hmm.. source is missing in package interface
Jun 20 16:44:56 <Raimu> Hmh, found it in sources but still didn't pick up what limitation it is
Jun 20 16:45:10 <Raimu> (Sorry, talking about this modest thing)
Jun 20 16:48:30 <sixwheeledbeast> will look later going afk
Jun 20 16:55:55 <Win7Mac> Anybody knows something about tweaking flash version on N9?: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1353510
Jun 20 17:14:43 <Raimu> Maybe people on #meego might know?
Jun 20 17:16:23 <DocScrutinizer05> or on #harmattan
Jun 20 17:17:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ~weather EDDN
Jun 20 17:17:02 <infobot> Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2013.06.20 1650 UTC; Dew Point: 66 F (19 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.83 in. Hg (1010 hPa); Relative Humidity: 58%; Temperature: 82 F (28 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the W (280 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 KT)
Jun 20 17:17:55 <Win7Mac> no activity on #meego + #harmattan
Jun 20 17:32:37 <DocScrutinizer05> in #meego there've been ~10 lines on 13. and 15., and one line on 16.
Jun 20 17:33:28 <DocScrutinizer05> #armattan has some lines every day at least
Jun 20 17:39:09 <Lava_Croft> :)
Jun 20 17:39:33 <Lava_Croft> sounds like my n900 n9 usage
Jun 20 17:39:37 <Lava_Croft> even tho the n9 has the sim
Jun 20 17:51:02 <Win7Mac> posted in both channels - no response. I hope for TMO...
Jun 20 18:06:05 <Win7Mac> can't this be done on N9?: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1276589#post1276589
Jun 20 20:23:34 <_rd> Is anybody using navit from "deb http://download.navit-project.org/navit/n800/svn/ chinook user" ?
Jun 20 20:23:43 <_rd> I get 
Jun 20 20:23:56 <_rd> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/navit_svn-5539_armel.deb (--unpack):                                                                         
Jun 20 20:23:57 <_rd>  corrupted filesystem tarfile - corrupted package archive  
Jun 20 20:28:27 <DocScrutinizer05> chinook? hardly
Jun 20 20:29:37 <DocScrutinizer05> why not diablo?
Jun 20 20:43:28 <Win7Mac> further ideas to tweak flash version? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1353544#post1353544
Jun 20 20:56:15 <DocScrutinizer05> Woody14619: a extra huge thankyou for taking care about all that mess
Jun 20 20:56:59 <Win7Mac> +1
Jun 20 20:57:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and indeed it's extremely sad that we are no step further than where we been 9 months ago, with that HiFo baby
Jun 20 21:06:14 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, offline at nn:57:30
Jun 20 21:06:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and indeed it's extremely sad that we are no step further than where we been 9 months ago, with that HiFo baby
Jun 20 21:09:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ahh, nothing got lost
Jun 20 21:11:44 <ShadowJK> Sorry, but I've been kinda absent... what mess, what step? summary? :D
Jun 20 21:23:10 <_rd> DocScrutinizer05, good question, I think they build generic packages.
Jun 20 21:23:32 <_rd> so I would not worry about the chinook, but let me check....
Jun 20 21:24:57 <_rd> yes, they have only chinook builds. Even if it would be really chinook, I should not get an archive error(?)
Jun 20 21:56:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: mess with Hifo
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 21 02:59:58 2013