**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 21 02:59:58 2013 Jun 21 04:14:31 [notice] I started token bulk mailing Jun 21 04:14:53 the tokens are still the same as for the past election(s) Jun 21 04:18:48 this is for the BoD elections to start in 14h, so we finally get a new *elected* BoD again Jun 21 04:23:03 NOTE: you can as well use your "old" token and accountname you received for referendum and MMC/HFC elections Jun 21 08:38:44 http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council Jun 21 08:57:08 Lava_Croft: ping Jun 21 08:57:34 anyone_who_is_into_fone_tech: ping Jun 21 08:58:00 One of my fleet of N900 finally succumbed to the communication error bug yesterday. Jun 21 08:58:19 I burned some incense and said a little prayer. Jun 21 08:59:00 communication error bug? Jun 21 08:59:12 Yup. Jun 21 08:59:33 I can protect against the broken USB port but not CMT failure. Jun 21 08:59:44 aah cmt failure Jun 21 09:00:14 Fucking nokia. Jun 21 09:00:26 I still think cmt failure might get triggered by too hard pressure/force applied to kbd Jun 21 09:00:39 It was the handset mrs vi_ uses. Jun 21 09:01:14 I think it is time for her to move onto droid. Jun 21 09:01:29 She only used to the n900 to make me happy :( Jun 21 09:01:36 I honestly think they shouldn't have placed huge BGA chips on backside of kbd area Jun 21 09:02:09 You think the pcb gets distorted enough? Jun 21 09:02:16 yep Jun 21 09:02:21 Hmmm. Jun 21 09:02:33 Maybe I should be the first to attempt a diy reflow! Jun 21 09:02:44 yeah! Jun 21 09:03:16 How hot for a BGA? Jun 21 09:03:33 err, I guess usual reflow profile Jun 21 09:04:31 iirc some max 260°C for no longer than 120s, with a preheat of dunno. Check the usual manufacturer and reflow oven profile specs Jun 21 09:05:05 Do you think the domesheet could handle that? Jun 21 09:05:13 for sure not Jun 21 09:05:51 you'll have to carefully remove it, then fit it again after rework and test Jun 21 09:06:45 I'd also remove cam module prior to reflow action Jun 21 09:06:52 rofl Jun 21 09:06:54 ofc Jun 21 09:07:40 for the best profile, I can't give any good advice for rework Jun 21 09:07:55 aunt google might help Jun 21 09:08:04 It was only a silly idea anyway. Jun 21 09:08:55 onlike some of my chinese colleagues back from openmoko, I personally never did BGA manual reflow Jun 21 09:09:03 unlike even Jun 21 09:09:46 you might try and get a hold of those experts at #qi-hardware Jun 21 09:10:06 s/of/on7. Jun 21 09:10:13 I think I will just let it go. Jun 21 09:10:28 It can be the car computer or something. Jun 21 09:10:29 ~cmtfix Jun 21 09:10:30 rumour has it, cmtfix is http://www.jabawok.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/20120726_N900-gsm-chips-spring-fix03.jpg Jun 21 09:11:48 Is that picture for real? Jun 21 09:11:53 supposed to be the scientific fork of "paper under battery" workaround suggested by even Nokia care Jun 21 09:12:09 vi__: yes, I think it's for real Jun 21 09:12:25 It looks like it does wonders for the RF shielding. Jun 21 09:13:33 of course the can lids are meant to get closed after applying the springs ;-P Jun 21 09:13:42 aaah. Jun 21 09:14:00 I wonder what all this mobile phone rf is doing to my bollocks. Jun 21 09:14:29 best case save you much trouble Jun 21 09:14:32 ;-P Jun 21 09:14:35 hah! Jun 21 09:15:04 I am seriously considering switching back to symbian. Jun 21 09:16:58 or one of those credit card sized phones that only makes calls. Jun 21 09:17:07 hey, why not go the geek way rather than for sybian? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551420#post551420 Jun 21 09:19:02 THAT guy is a real animal when it comes to DIY reworks Jun 21 09:19:15 Holy shit. That is glorious! Jun 21 09:24:41 Did you see this thing? Jun 21 09:24:42 http://www.meetearl.com/ Jun 21 09:25:47 It has a UHF radio in it! Jun 21 09:36:08 LOL Jun 21 09:36:25 solar charging made me giggle a short while Jun 21 09:37:07 Truthfully, if a person was in a so called survival situation, the last thing they would want is battery powered things. Jun 21 09:41:53 with a 5W transceiver, the solar charging is really only for robinson sending a short SOS every other year, when a ship passes by Jun 21 09:42:26 but an interesting gadget anyway, thanks for the pointer :-) Jun 21 09:43:00 >>Glove friendly infrared touchscreen<< DUH! Jun 21 09:45:38 wtf is an " IR blaster"? Jun 21 10:20:13 Perhaps an IR illumination for survival night vision. Jun 21 10:32:13 vi__: pong? Jun 21 10:38:38 good morning. Jun 21 10:38:52 I always had the impression you are quite up to date on phone tech. Jun 21 10:38:59 uhm Jun 21 10:39:26 Can you recommend a cheap as **** android handset for mrs vi_? Jun 21 10:39:39 ow, i dont know about that:< Jun 21 10:39:45 ive always been interested in that too Jun 21 10:39:55 but its like a forest of cheap droids Jun 21 10:40:08 i would say go with a cheaper samsung :| Jun 21 10:40:19 any particular models etc? Jun 21 10:40:22 i know my mother in law has this cheapo Galaxy device and is quite happy Jun 21 10:40:28 vi__: get any device that shows up on XDA. Jun 21 10:40:28 some small-ish thingy Jun 21 10:41:39 get that new Asha Jun 21 10:41:42 i really like that design Jun 21 10:41:55 The thing is, I do not want to expend too much effort 'researching'. Jun 21 10:42:04 I think it has to be android. Jun 21 10:42:16 vi__: Galaxy Grand? Jun 21 10:42:18 cheap droid means droid running on slow shit hardware Jun 21 10:42:26 which usually doesnt really make it awesome Jun 21 10:42:31 this might have changed tho Jun 21 10:43:16 how cheap is cheap, exactly? Jun 21 10:44:30 sub $100? Jun 21 10:45:40 Yes Jun 21 10:46:55 vi__: http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/mobile-phones/best-cheap-android-phones-50000773/ Jun 21 10:46:59 that has some models for you Jun 21 10:58:22 £75 Jun 21 10:58:29 That does seem cheap enough. Jun 21 10:59:00 I paid more than that for a nokia 5800 3 years ago. Jun 21 10:59:49 It appears to be supported by the cyanogenmod Jun 21 11:01:33 yeah, cyanogen support is a nice bonus Jun 21 11:01:57 vi__: http://cdn.theunlockr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ATT_SGH-i927_qwertyleft.jpg Jun 21 11:02:04 scottish friend of mine got that from Hong Kong Jun 21 11:02:12 for around 100euros Jun 21 11:09:47 does it support cyanogen? Jun 21 11:10:42 aye Jun 21 11:10:52 he installed it on the device Jun 21 11:11:04 are you scotch? Jun 21 11:11:08 only thing he doesnt like, except android maybe, is the lack of a CTRL key on the hw keyb Jun 21 11:11:11 no Jun 21 11:11:32 BUt you can remap the kb anyway you want on android...right? Jun 21 11:11:38 i guess Jun 21 11:12:37 where did he buy it? Jun 21 11:13:12 ah. Who am I kidding. She does not care for HWKB. Jun 21 11:13:18 :) Jun 21 11:14:26 Does MTK chipsets still suck asses? Jun 21 11:15:42 no clue Jun 21 11:18:05 * DocScrutinizer05 reads >>its like a forest of cheap droids<< and starts humming Stranglers - The Rise of the Robots Jun 21 11:18:57 Rise of the Robots was this beat em up Jun 21 11:19:10 And it sucked balls. I remember it. Jun 21 11:19:13 yes Jun 21 11:19:17 it was no Killer Instinct Jun 21 11:19:23 But the cover art was kinda cool with that blue robot. Jun 21 11:19:29 :) Jun 21 11:19:32 btw Jun 21 11:19:35 KI gets a remake Jun 21 11:19:45 yeah i found a valid reason to mention it Jun 21 11:20:04 A remake you say? Jun 21 11:20:08 aye Jun 21 11:20:44 Will we get to see orchids bewbs this time or will they censor her fatality again? Jun 21 11:20:53 her weirdo banana shaped boobs Jun 21 11:21:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQV8pWJiJ4g Jun 21 11:21:58 DocScrutinizer05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5IZobXdJyE Jun 21 11:22:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zafl_68PfOo Jun 21 11:22:23 haha Jun 21 11:22:32 I never can get enough of 90s computer game advertising Jun 21 11:22:46 >>This video contains content from UMG, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.<< Jun 21 11:22:51 haha, welcome to germany Jun 21 11:23:16 zappa. banned in germany. Jun 21 11:23:21 you should go to war. Jun 21 11:23:28 zappa is banned like mein kampf Jun 21 11:23:40 i bet someone can think of a valid reason to link the two Jun 21 11:27:38 it's simple RIAA/GEMA (c) stuff Jun 21 11:30:14 recently they tried to implement same even for google (et al) citations of texts with their search hits Jun 21 11:30:54 GEMA is the protector of all creative people in Germany Jun 21 11:31:01 * Lava_Croft chokes on his words Jun 21 11:31:26 i thought we Dutchies had it bad with the blockade of TPB, but Germany is much, much worse with its ridiculous GEMA Jun 21 11:31:34 newspapers etc asked for insane refund/click from google, based on "they earn so much money with linking to our sites, we want some of that" rationale Jun 21 11:31:52 yeah, they tried that here too Jun 21 11:32:22 a lot of the stuff that GEMA now does just didnt really pass for acceptable here Jun 21 11:32:32 thats what i dont understand, its not like Germans and Dutchies are so different Jun 21 11:36:05 wut Jun 21 11:36:15 google does not earn any money from links. Jun 21 11:36:41 In fact if it were not for google how would the newspapers site get any traffic? Jun 21 11:36:51 From 'yahoo' searches? Jun 21 11:36:55 BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA Jun 21 11:37:46 vi__: that's irrelevant to the core argumentation of "we WANT some of that!" Jun 21 11:38:57 a few years ago they actually tried to sue ISPs for providing access to (C) content Jun 21 11:39:29 you have no idea what lawyers can come up with, when they try to make money Jun 21 11:41:32 the concept of "Mitstoerer-Haftung" still applies and could forbid me to offer free internet access via a guest WLAN for neighbours and randomly passing by WLAN users Jun 21 11:42:42 still rule of law that owner of connection is legally responsible? Jun 21 11:42:51 yep Jun 21 11:42:57 so i could leech child porn off of your wifi and you get the blame Jun 21 11:43:02 so, so bad Jun 21 11:43:33 IP addresses and known owners make prosecution just so easy. Jun 21 11:43:55 I might prove I had an open WLAN and there been a guest who did that, but then they require that I provide ID of that guest Jun 21 11:44:30 if I can't provide the ID, then it's me who pays Jun 21 11:44:49 what if I hacked your wifi? Jun 21 11:45:09 then I pay for not properly maintaining my WLAN Jun 21 11:45:16 rofl. Jun 21 11:45:29 DocScrutinizer05: that sucks. Jun 21 11:45:31 As it should be! The victim of crime should pay to clean up the mess! Jun 21 11:46:18 I mean, hypothetically, if WPA2 gets a skid-friendly attack, and WPA3 hasn't been NSA-certified yet, does everybody just get the schtick? Jun 21 11:46:20 BTW... as for legally responsible: only in civil law Jun 21 11:46:39 so technically you committed no crime if someone else DL'd child porn through your WLAN Jun 21 11:46:42 actually not properly securing your WLAN is worse than offering open and free WLAN (plus tracing MAC of clients) Jun 21 11:47:06 I'd be more worried about civil law issues, e.g. copyright Jun 21 11:47:27 divVerent: right Jun 21 11:47:29 as for that there are clear laws that the ISP account owner is the "also-disturber" (no idea how to translate that) Jun 21 11:48:04 regarding the overused child porn example, what WOULD happen is that they'd seize your computers to analyze them... Jun 21 11:48:08 divVerent: corroborator? Jun 21 11:48:10 (worried about copyright) which is where we came from Jun 21 11:48:14 to give them back to you 3 years later without charging you for a crime Jun 21 11:48:16 still very bad Jun 21 11:48:27 divVerent: aiding and abetting? Jun 21 11:48:45 rikanee: sort of... not sure if that english term includes "accidentally" doing it Jun 21 11:48:59 …accidentally? Jun 21 11:49:05 see open WLAN Jun 21 11:49:12 ah. Jun 21 11:49:13 or rather, semi-open (e.g. WEP) Jun 21 11:49:23 neither does the german term mit-stoerer Jun 21 11:49:28 similar to when my actions would accidentally help a murderer... and for that I cannot get charged Jun 21 11:49:36 e.g. typical example: the guy who sold the knife to the killer Jun 21 11:50:03 DocScrutinizer05: that german term includes unwillingly doing so Jun 21 11:50:19 so with a not properly secured WLAN you are one too Jun 21 11:50:25 and be it a 0day in your AP Jun 21 11:50:43 yeah, they won't prosecute you for the murder, but the killed guy's wife sues you for livelong recompensation Jun 21 11:50:52 haha, no Jun 21 11:50:56 so, uhh… assuming you're a Starbucks franchiser, and have a WiFi network with captive portal, and a DPI firewall with an active blocklist, what if someone uses Tor to get their cheese pizza? Jun 21 11:51:10 that is why you practically cannot get out of liability Jun 21 11:51:27 blaming the owner for illegal access is a politico cop-out, imo Jun 21 11:51:36 rikanee: that is no issue... Jun 21 11:51:46 rikanee: and yes, it is a stupid cop-out Jun 21 11:51:47 divVerent: tbh the term "Mit-Stoerer" doesn't imply anything for me, it's gibberish Jun 21 11:51:56 but it is parallel to e.g. crimes committed using your car Jun 21 11:52:04 you provided the vehicle, so you still can get sued for damages Jun 21 11:52:13 DocScrutinizer05: it is Jun 21 11:52:47 divVerent: actually, more like a large, private freeway, with free, open access. Jun 21 11:52:52 BTW, typical example of being a Mitstoerer... Jun 21 11:52:57 use QtMobileHotspot on N900 Jun 21 11:52:59 it can't do WPA Jun 21 11:53:07 so you're basically automatically screweed Jun 21 11:53:45 the only way out is being a company (yes... as soon as you have money, suddenly all is ok) Jun 21 11:53:46 with a freeway analogy, do they actually expect you to lay down CCTV every 5 meters and rent-a-cops to secure it? Jun 21 11:53:58 yes, but only if you are private Jun 21 11:54:03 as a company, you can offer any access you want\ Jun 21 11:54:14 that is why public hotspots work e.g. in airports Jun 21 11:54:24 all authentication they have is your MAC address... which can even be fake Jun 21 11:54:29 mmm. Jun 21 11:54:35 sometimes even a mobile phone number... which can be equally fake Jun 21 11:54:45 so if anyone sues... Jun 21 11:54:55 divVerent: no, I can be a private non-company too, I only have to utterly offer the WLAN for anybody to access internet, then it's less probelmatic than when I get hacked Jun 21 11:54:57 all they will say is "it was a user with this MAC, go catch him yourself" Jun 21 11:55:00 and they are done Jun 21 11:55:29 I just have to keep records of all MAC Jun 21 11:55:42 which is practically useless Jun 21 11:55:48 and also... are you allowed to keep these records? Jun 21 11:55:55 yes Jun 21 11:55:58 IIRC Vorratsdatenspeicherung only applies starting from a certain user count Jun 21 11:56:14 the mandatory property, yes Jun 21 11:56:23 airports basically authorize to themselves as they need these records for "billing" Jun 21 11:56:34 that doesn't forbid it on smaller "ISP" Jun 21 11:56:34 so they can limit your usage to 30min and for more you pay Jun 21 11:56:44 it does not? Jun 21 11:56:50 no Jun 21 11:56:56 I thought privacy laws basically forbid you to collect any "unnecessary" data Jun 21 11:57:00 unless explicitly authorized Jun 21 11:57:18 so if you are not required to do Vorratsdatenspeicherung, you are not allowed to either Jun 21 11:57:24 THAT applies only to companies Jun 21 11:57:29 ISP here is going to transmit wifi from its clients routers Jun 21 11:57:31 ooh, so logging MAC, with a captive portal with disclaimer, gets you out? Jun 21 11:57:32 unless you happen to have another reason to do the same Jun 21 11:57:37 e.g. "billing", the usual excuse Jun 21 11:57:45 so other clients can make use of wifi throughout the country Jun 21 11:58:11 read: "so you have less bandwidth and can't find out why" Jun 21 11:58:17 no Jun 21 11:58:22 seperate lines Jun 21 11:58:26 as in, "ISP will always say someone else is using your b/w before admitting your line is bad" Jun 21 11:58:29 it's my private LAN, I can stora all the data I want Jun 21 11:58:33 oh, REALLY separate? Jun 21 11:58:40 not physically Jun 21 11:58:44 exactly Jun 21 11:58:45 :P Jun 21 11:58:48 that I share it doesn't make a difference Jun 21 11:59:06 it does not interfere with your own bw, divVerent Jun 21 11:59:20 they have more than enough bw anyways Jun 21 11:59:24 let's see if that will be true :P Jun 21 11:59:46 it will, since people wont accept any degredation of performance Jun 21 11:59:52 not for this Jun 21 12:00:28 haha Jun 21 12:00:47 inless fibre, they never have more than enough bandwidth for me Jun 21 12:00:50 Lava_Croft: not initially, sure Jun 21 12:00:52 unless even Jun 21 12:01:02 it basically gives the ISPs another thing to claim in order to not have to fix your line Jun 21 12:01:12 divVerent: if its a performance decrease that is not percieved as such Jun 21 12:01:16 it doesnt exist Jun 21 12:01:17 :) Jun 21 12:02:27 Lava_Croft: no, no Jun 21 12:02:32 you know, the nexus7 turned out really awful Jun 21 12:02:34 it just adds another thing to the script of the hotlines Jun 21 12:02:59 they used such cheap flash memory that over time the tablet performs like android on n900 Jun 21 12:03:00 so if your line is bad, hotline will after the usual reboot crap, start blaming it on interference or such crap Jun 21 12:03:19 so now my nexus7 is like a cheap toy store droid tablet Jun 21 12:03:32 divVerent: :) yes Jun 21 12:03:33 they needed to reduce performance to achieve iPhone feeling Jun 21 12:03:46 its really bad Jun 21 12:04:00 i basically have to reflash to solve it Jun 21 12:04:49 Can you explain? Jun 21 12:04:58 Is there some amnufacturing fault on the nexus7? Jun 21 12:05:04 ^manufacturing Jun 21 12:06:01 cheap flash storage supposedly works fine for large writes/reads like media files Jun 21 12:06:31 but ends up performinf really bad on the OS's small writes/reads Jun 21 12:06:33 so for what does it not work well? Jun 21 12:06:48 why would the OS do small reads/writes all the time Jun 21 12:06:59 I kinda doubt that... as in, doubt that THAT is the reason for bad performance Jun 21 12:07:15 even iOS, full of sqlite DBs everywhere, does not use much disk access requests per sec Jun 21 12:07:21 ' slow random read/write speeds of the ssd' Jun 21 12:07:25 is what they say Jun 21 12:07:26 and android has less of that crap Jun 21 12:07:43 even if it IS slow... why would you notice that from the UI Jun 21 12:08:00 you notice is from everywhere Jun 21 12:08:03 it* Jun 21 12:08:11 which is the problem Jun 21 12:08:33 are you sure I/O is REALLY the issue, is what I am asking Jun 21 12:08:35 and not something else Jun 21 12:08:48 i said supposedly :) Jun 21 12:08:56 i just read and relay here:) Jun 21 12:09:06 hehe Jun 21 12:09:20 can be anything for all i knowp but its an actual thing since i experience it on my N7 Jun 21 12:09:28 thing is, these devices have lots of RAM, and all writes are cached Jun 21 12:09:32 as do the 6 other people i know irl that have one Jun 21 12:09:34 so effectively they take place in background Jun 21 12:09:45 and reads should not be that much of an issue, and even if yes, only few times Jun 21 12:09:51 nothing helps, except reflash Jun 21 12:09:51 until next reboot :P Jun 21 12:10:29 or does actually forcing the files to be cached and retrying "fix" the bad performance? Jun 21 12:10:39 momwnt Jun 21 12:10:42 like, closing the slow opening app, and opening it again and it opens fast? Jun 21 12:10:56 (I mean actually killing, of course) Jun 21 12:11:13 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kovit.p.forevergone&hl=en Jun 21 12:11:23 apparently people use that as a 'fix' Jun 21 12:11:54 it just makes me cringe Jun 21 12:18:04 WTF Jun 21 12:18:15 all this thing possibly does for/against performance... Jun 21 12:18:20 is clearing the write cache of the kernel :P Jun 21 12:18:36 what it does in no way "defragments" the SD card or anything Jun 21 12:18:54 and in case of VFAT, it makes your directory nodes bigger :P Jun 21 12:19:15 this thing is useful though... for android VMs :P Jun 21 12:19:25 so you can clean out the free space to zeros, before compressing the VM image Jun 21 12:19:59 so if THIS thing really speeds stuff up... Jun 21 12:20:13 I'd rather consider rooting it and fixing the procfs values regarding caching :P Jun 21 12:42:18 chem|st, I have a new banner for TMO to place in ~10h: http://i.imgur.com/JRv7QmY.gif Jun 21 12:55:04 divVerent: fragmentation Jun 21 12:55:39 even large files are not getting stored as consecutive anymore when storage starts to fragment Jun 21 12:56:03 which drastically reduces the read and write speed Jun 21 12:56:22 (only wild guessing) Jun 21 12:59:25 and yes, I'd accept reflashing and restoring all media data as a valid way to defragment storage Jun 21 13:04:29 heh Jun 21 13:04:30 http://i.imgur.com/M4fm9Og.jpg Jun 21 13:05:14 uhuh Jun 21 13:05:35 that's what? Jun 21 13:06:12 grabbag showcase of how android changed visually Jun 21 13:06:20 mhm Jun 21 13:07:12 know what _I_ dislike in that? The fact that _android_ changed, since usually *I* change such details to my liking Jun 21 13:08:35 well, that the default looks changed over time is logical Jun 21 13:08:43 and you can still change it to your liking, to a certain extent Jun 21 13:08:55 I really can't cheer about arbitrary android manufacturers picked a larger or smaller font *for me* for the ever-same friggin clock on that "desktop" Jun 21 13:08:56 its just funny how much better the default look it compared to the older ones Jun 21 13:09:11 well, yes, the android skins they use are awful Jun 21 13:09:17 but stock android has OK looks Jun 21 13:10:14 I despise the 2it has skins" thinking. I want to create my own "skin" Jun 21 13:10:46 yes but not every user is a such a tinkerer Jun 21 13:10:49 frankly, most arent:) Jun 21 13:11:04 for givin you an idea: I have my KDE window bar separated from that think on bottom of KDE desktop and sitting on top of screen Jun 21 13:11:07 so for them being able to change the theme/skin is quite nice already! Jun 21 13:11:14 and makes them feel like a hacker, so Jun 21 13:11:59 and makes me feel like an alien on planet of apes Jun 21 13:13:12 i can relate to the mainstream folks, i have a shitload of them around me:P Jun 21 13:13:13 honestly when even arranging their own individual "desktop" is too much for those users, why the heck do they need a SMARTphone at all? Jun 21 13:13:24 most of them dont give a shit about changing any skin at all Jun 21 13:13:51 they arrange icons on the homescreen Jun 21 13:13:56 :P Jun 21 13:14:28 yeah, most of then also don't give a shit whose fart got recorded for that fart app, as long as it is 2ct cheaper than the other fart app Jun 21 13:14:49 or LOUDER Jun 21 13:14:55 ;-P Jun 21 13:15:22 well, i can affirm that i have not ever met anyone who had a fart app to show me Jun 21 13:15:26 so idk :< Jun 21 13:15:27 maybe jolla should sell other-halves with different fart sounds Jun 21 13:15:40 i want other halves with smell Jun 21 13:15:45 that would be great Jun 21 13:15:54 you can have it smell like brick Jun 21 13:17:10 want to have a laugh? Jun 21 13:17:11 http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/20/4449116/samsung-ativ-q-windows-8-android-hybrid-hands-on-photos-video Jun 21 13:20:02 14:55:39 DocScrutinizer05 | even large files are not getting stored as consecutive anymore when Jun 21 13:20:03 | storage starts to fragment Jun 21 13:20:20 DocScrutinizer05: but creating zero bytes files, filling the card, then deleting them does not defragment Jun 21 13:20:24 as it does not move the existing files Jun 21 13:26:45 Somebody needs to go add some input to the questionnaire thread. Jun 21 13:34:09 divVerent: ack Jun 21 13:34:40 who's claiming it does is a moron Jun 21 13:38:11 divVerent: NB I didn't bother to look into any link that got posted here regarding that topic. I just contributed a random thought what might cause increasing slowness on an android device and how you could actually fix that Jun 21 13:39:03 sure Jun 21 13:39:28 basically, I do wonder if this tool actually helps - because if it does, a real fix is probably some vars in procfs related to disk cache Jun 21 13:41:19 optimizer tools always help, particularly when they're "free". After all the user feels happy for ahving found a "solution" to his problem that didn't cost him money Jun 21 13:41:29 known as placebo effect Jun 21 13:41:56 well known actually, since windows-3.1 times Jun 21 13:42:57 and I adore to "help" those optimizer placebos, like crappatch ;-D Jun 21 13:45:51 re crappatch: those pkgs actually seem to have adopted some formerly working POC patches maybe for diablo or whatever that got included to fremantle stock either from beginning or at very least starting from PR1.2 Jun 21 13:46:19 e.g. cgroups Jun 21 13:48:26 and since original author had no idea about how those POC patches work, he wasn't capable to find them already implemented in contemporary maemo and happily nuked what already been there by his obsolete alternative Jun 21 13:50:05 what, speedpatch for android? Jun 21 13:50:15 lol Jun 21 13:50:28 nice, /me likes that Jun 21 13:50:59 which in best case actually works almost as good as it did before, and been verifiable to work, but neglected that a similar or better setting already existed on every fremantle system Jun 21 13:51:02 vi__: hi, how's UI going? Jun 21 13:51:08 terrible! Jun 21 13:51:14 :( Jun 21 13:51:22 engineers should not make guis! Jun 21 13:51:33 yeah Jun 21 13:51:43 It works but the overall feedback is it looks like ass. Jun 21 13:52:10 engineers should have a gui-maker-bashing-day once a week Jun 21 13:52:32 I heard there were riots in Sofia. Is it true? Jun 21 13:52:33 where they tell the guys who make GUI how to do it right Jun 21 13:52:39 lol Jun 21 13:52:50 all you need is sh Jun 21 13:53:36 vi__: yeah, I am participating. It is unbelieveable how EU media give no attention to that :( Jun 21 13:53:52 wait, that's called usability crew Jun 21 13:53:54 what is going on? Is it actual rioting? Jun 21 13:54:03 Or just peaceful demonstration? Jun 21 13:54:16 Perhaps it is because Bulgaria is too close to home? Jun 21 13:54:30 peaceful demonstration, even some kind of party Jun 21 13:54:49 vi__: could be, but still, it is dishonest Jun 21 13:55:08 who's demonstrating where for what? seems it's demontration seasons Jun 21 13:55:09 I agree, I was merely offering some kind of explanation. Jun 21 13:55:51 Apparently if you have $20 in your pocket and no debts you are amongst the richest on the planet. It is nice to be in the 1%. Jun 21 13:55:57 DocScrutinizer05: https://medium.com/better-humans/d289c6e1392 Jun 21 13:56:48 You want to dissolve your parliament? Jun 21 13:56:49 o0 Jun 21 13:57:09 vi__: for sure Jun 21 13:57:44 vi__: it is unbelevable, but every day they do bigger mistake than the one they did the previous day Jun 21 13:57:45 It seems crazy that people have to go to such lengths to get their own governments to just pay attention. Jun 21 13:58:35 You see turkey, syria and brazil are far away lands. Jun 21 13:58:41 They are exotic. Jun 21 13:59:02 Their governments are corrupt and that is the way it is in the undeveloped world. Jun 21 13:59:11 Bulgaria is just too close to home. Jun 21 13:59:11 hmm, I wouldn;t say turkey is far (in geographical sense) Jun 21 13:59:27 freemangordon: correct, but it *feels* far away, Jun 21 13:59:37 ^. Jun 21 13:59:40 yeah Jun 21 14:00:21 The notion that our neighbours in Bulgaria are rallying is just 1 step closer to the central euro countries getting upset. Jun 21 14:01:02 I am surprised there has not been an uprising in Germany. Jun 21 14:01:23 vi__: it is sad that an old guy like me have to do the same he has done 20 years ago. Jun 21 14:01:35 What with having to foot the bill for some half dozen european shit hole countries who forgot to collect any tax in the last 30 years. Jun 21 14:02:14 vi__: half dozen? Oo Jun 21 14:02:40 A little exaggeration for dramatic effect! Jun 21 14:02:47 aah, ok :) Jun 21 14:03:31 vi__: however, have to run. Jun 21 14:03:37 Stay safe. Jun 21 14:03:46 yeah, sure Jun 21 14:07:14 i guess theres no uprising in germany because the germans know very well its their own fault they have to pay up for their friends Jun 21 14:07:33 freemangordon: thanks for link Jun 21 14:07:34 it was well known that letting weak countries be part of the Euro would pose a serious risk Jun 21 14:08:06 but realism is not a fun gameplay element of politics Jun 21 14:10:02 Lava_Croft: demonstrations in BG has nothing to do with EU Jun 21 14:10:29 it is "our" own intercountry fault Jun 21 14:10:46 only about 50% voted on the last elections Jun 21 14:11:10 was referring to vi__ :) Jun 21 14:11:14 ok Jun 21 14:11:16 you have different problems Jun 21 14:11:22 :( Jun 21 14:11:44 yeah. which are way worse than those in Germany ;) Jun 21 14:12:05 its about time countries in your region get governments they can reasonably trust Jun 21 14:13:25 Lava_Croft: exactly what it is all about Jun 21 14:20:39 i know Jun 21 14:21:03 hi guys.. good to be back Jun 21 14:21:20 hi b-r-a-i-n Jun 21 14:21:20 yo Jun 21 14:24:42 i had time to shake openpandora in my hands and glimpse of insane idea appeared in my mind. will it be nearly possible to create "upgrade" version of n900 motherboard? Jun 21 14:28:54 yes, it is called the gta04 Jun 21 14:28:55 ! Jun 21 14:32:27 thats openmoko. good thing but insane price and design. and its not compatible with n900 case Jun 21 14:32:53 perhaps I meant gta05 Jun 21 14:32:57 sorry. Jun 21 14:42:20 check backlog for N904 Jun 21 14:42:22 ;-) Jun 21 14:43:47 also I don't see how gta04 is insane priced, given the fact that my first N900 costs me ~600EUR as well Jun 21 14:44:07 iirc Jun 21 14:48:43 to be fair, the N900 cost $600 four years ago and came with a case. And back then its hardware was high end. Jun 21 14:53:31 i bought n900 in china for 130$ Jun 21 14:56:02 its hardware was high end? Jun 21 14:56:09 it wasnt really high end hw Jun 21 14:58:32 gta04 is at least as highend as N900 been, for its class of completely FOSS and open documentation low volume "DIY" devices Jun 21 15:00:57 you can't compete with pricetag of a samsung based on custom made chipset and display, unless you're willing to sell same volumes so you could afford similar but open and community driven production of your own custom made components Jun 21 15:48:53 is there a program that will blink the yellow LED depending on state+rate of charge? (say, fast blink during fast charge, normal blink when normal/slow charge, and slow blink when nearing full)? Jun 21 15:52:54 superglue: the friend of my n900s Jun 21 16:05:16 ecc3g: I planned sth like that, dunno why I never actually did it Jun 21 16:05:46 might be some arbitrary limitation of the lp5523 kernel driver Jun 21 16:06:52 *basically* you could write such a program as lp5523 engine "pattern program" that would work autonomously on lp5523 indicator LED control chip Jun 21 16:09:19 ecc3g: the basic plot goes like this: read out battery voltage via lp5523 internal A/D-converter. Adjust blink frequency via an algorithm that compares battery voltage to some thresholds Jun 21 16:10:24 alas neither kernel lp5523-driver nor mci support the needed functionality to control the lp5523 chip on that level Jun 21 16:12:00 you need to create all led patterns, then add them to mce.ini (there is some extras-devel tool for it, usbmode using it) Jun 21 16:12:36 and then periodically read voltage or capacity from bq27200 chip and tell mce to switch to another led pattern Jun 21 16:13:32 bme replacement export all info via /sys and also via dbus (hal), so you can create app which wait for dbus signal and then tell mce led pattern Jun 21 16:14:26 it could not be hard Jun 21 16:23:17 sure, but that's so... boring Jun 21 16:24:26 ;-) Jun 21 16:25:06 when you could do same with just a few dozen bytes of LP5523 engine code Jun 21 16:26:03 and that concept would work without any special kernel and even without any CPU support at all, since it runs autonomously on the LED controller Jun 21 16:31:14 this would be "neat" and tell people quickly that their wall charger sucks... :( Jun 21 17:04:16 DocScrutinizer05, why don't you kick start an OMAP5 board for N900? Jun 21 17:28:45 These vote emails sure have brought the old accounts whining out of the woodwork. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1353756 Jun 21 17:56:59 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Jun 21 18:29:07 GeneralAntilles: meeting Jun 21 18:35:18 chem|st, merlin1991: meeting Jun 21 18:43:31 ~sop Jun 21 18:47:30 DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! Jun 21 20:03:47 mIRC sucks Jun 21 20:04:27 potentially good offer for a N900 incl. all extras: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1353294#post1353294 Jun 21 20:19:37 too good an offer ;-) Jun 21 20:19:47 (to let it sit there for long) Jun 21 20:19:47 guys, your thoughts please: http://nofilmschool.com/2013/06/magic-lantern-progress-canon-dslr/ Jun 21 20:20:26 hehe, thought, you'd thought so Jun 21 20:20:51 first notion: WAY too many friggin cookies on that website Jun 21 20:21:07 ...looking for a MB Jun 21 20:21:29 ^^ I know. But it's 2013... Jun 21 20:24:05 second thought: can you repeat the question? Jun 21 20:24:36 some guys hacking a DSLR Jun 21 20:24:43 heard about it Jun 21 20:24:59 I mean the community-drive... Jun 21 20:25:08 Trammell Hudson started it all... Jun 21 20:25:13 probably if I were into photography, I get involved into it Jun 21 20:25:27 ...in a greater sense Jun 21 20:25:42 open community in general Jun 21 20:26:05 ~development Jun 21 20:26:28 infobot is on the phone ;-) Jun 21 20:26:37 *community-development Jun 21 20:26:50 ;-) Jun 21 20:27:31 * DocScrutinizer05 waves Jun 21 20:28:15 * Win7Mac waves back Jun 21 20:31:19 the video is an amazing visualisation. I don't expect that for maemo, but is there some kind of statistics about registrators, maemo- and TMO-visitors? Jun 21 20:47:40 DocScrutinizer05, are you diggin or is there no such? Jun 21 20:50:49 dunno Jun 21 20:54:14 must be kept somewhere deep down the caves in midgard... Jun 21 20:58:01 Actually, if you guys just want to CC me when you come up with a meeting date, I can announce it. Jun 21 21:33:26 Earlier today my n900 spontaneously rebooted once again when I was using "hdr capture". However, this time boot would not bring the UI back. After getting back home I used BacupMenu's preboot env to enable mass storage mode and discovered that /home was unmountable (using ext3). fsck refused to fix the fs with prune switch, so after making a copy of the partition, I pointed fsck -y at the partition. Now that I've gone through lost+found, I find myself insanely lucky; i Jun 21 21:33:26 t seems that nearly all lost files were either retrieved emails, caches, thumbnails or other practically worthless objects. The only two things that I'm slightly worried about are two sqlite databases that clearly look like tracker's files. Jun 21 21:34:11 any ideas where a tracker's db containings a table "ChildServices" should live? Jun 21 21:34:32 similarly, where does the db with table "BackupMetaData" in it live? Jun 21 21:35:12 also, do either of these databases contain anything irrecoverable? Jun 21 21:35:50 From what I can tell, the system is working flawlessly. In fact, probably due to placebo effect, the system actually feels faster now... Jun 21 21:50:09 tracker databases can be rebuilt easily Jun 21 22:18:32 ShadowJK, I wouldn't be worried if the data looked like media database, but it looks more like something that affects tracker itself, e.g. FileMimes Jun 21 22:42:47 I *think* tracker knows how to recreate his db when it vanished Jun 21 22:43:56 and actually emptying the trackerdb (as well as eventsdb) easily may cause massive speedup, due to sqlite not eating up dozens of MB RAM for buffering all the cruft in those db Jun 21 22:46:13 I certainly hope so Jun 21 22:46:24 and as for sqlite, I know exactly what you mean Jun 21 22:48:40 anyway if you wanna play safe, you should restore everything from your backupmenu tarball. And then there's also another method iirc: "reset to factory settings" in settings menu Jun 21 22:49:15 it should afaik create a virgin ~user/ from /etc/skel or whatever Jun 21 22:49:47 incl any tracker db Jun 21 23:06:15 when fsck scared me by not accepting -p I considered restoring from backups - until I realised the latest was from early april Jun 21 23:07:33 and it was just a few days ago I was thinking of creating autoamtic backups with rsync, much like I do with my desktop... Jun 21 23:08:27 that I somehow ended up playing with bluetooth, oopsed my desktop's kernel once too many times (thanks to apparently broken usb-bt stick) and sort of forgot it for time being Jun 21 23:09:26 thinking about it, I really have no idea why I thought it'd be a good idea to run those backups over bt instead of over ssh Jun 21 23:09:37 s/ssh/wlan/ Jun 21 23:19:32 gn o/ Jun 21 23:26:04 new client physicians without borders is here! Jun 22 00:10:59 wnd: what kernel are you using for your desktop? Jun 22 00:11:35 trying to find a fix for the bluetooth rfcomm bug in 3.8+ Jun 22 00:21:32 ecc3g, 3.9 as in debian's linux-image-3.9-1-amd64 (from unstable) Jun 22 00:43:21 3.10-rc wasn't fixed yet so might be the same problem I'm seeing, it's a real kernel butg Jun 22 00:43:26 s/butg/bug/ Jun 22 00:44:03 i heard 3.7 does not have this bug, and 3.2 is definitely safe. Jun 22 00:45:50 whatever it was I had, was rather strange. after triggering the bug by accessing bt hardware, random processes would start throwing gpfs. Jun 22 00:49:30 for me, if I used bluetooth tethering, and then disconnected rfcomm/bluetooth, the machine would start oopsing and then die Jun 22 00:53:14 these were also common: "Bluetooth: hci0 command 0x0c14 tx timeout", where command number would vary Jun 22 00:54:22 I also had a broken bluetooth USB adaptor that times out after having it plugged in for a while... comparing it to my working ones, I tossed it. Jun 22 00:56:01 well, there's little point in wasting time with faulty hardware when it's both easily available and very cheap Jun 22 00:56:34 right, you should get another one... the good ones I have actually work fairly well, except for that BT kernel bug Jun 22 00:57:01 already ordered a new one. more expensive this time. Jun 22 00:57:30 in other words, the new one is worth more than usd 1.5 Jun 22 00:57:58 right now for me, the reference bluetooth radios are the built-in on my laptop...and the n900... The USB sticks I have, one is targus which is pretty good, and one unnamed one which works but not perfect... Jun 22 01:01:05 hmm... wonder how hard it is to use rfcomm for a bluetooth serial terminal on the n900... Jun 22 01:01:25 (what would I have to kill to not conflict with dialup networking...) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 22 02:59:58 2013