**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 22 02:59:58 2013
Jun 22 09:33:27 <DocScrutinizer05> moinmoin
Jun 22 09:34:51 <janemba> hi
Jun 22 09:35:17 <janemba> it is possible to synchronize automatically the repositories from FAM to the repositories from apt ?
Jun 22 10:08:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~fapman
Jun 22 10:08:46 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
Jun 22 10:09:07 <Lava_Croft> oh great
Jun 22 10:09:09 <DocScrutinizer05> so it's up to me to tell you that fapman is not really a good idea to use
Jun 22 10:09:17 <Lava_Croft> maximum number of ovi store downloads reached for Billboard
Jun 22 10:09:27 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
Jun 22 10:09:30 <Lava_Croft> i like how Ovi store just recommends me to buy it again
Jun 22 10:09:37 <Lava_Croft> this will be fun
Jun 22 10:10:02 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: you rather should grab the .deb from your local download location
Jun 22 10:10:17 <Lava_Croft> That's hardly the right way to do this! :D
Jun 22 10:10:43 <Lava_Croft> (i know you can do that, but i just wont:)
Jun 22 10:11:02 <DocScrutinizer05> what ovi does is hardly the right way to handle that... problem, whatever 'they' considered a problem here
Jun 22 10:11:13 <Lava_Croft> no shit
Jun 22 10:12:00 <DocScrutinizer05> when you buy a package, it afaik gets downloaded by apt to your local .deb store
Jun 22 10:12:48 <DocScrutinizer05> you should backup it from there, rather than depend on a ovi store that puts arbitrary limitations on how often you may download sth you legally purchased
Jun 22 10:25:40 <Win7Mac> Hi everybody
Jun 22 10:26:02 <Win7Mac> Lava_Croft, use N9QT tweak O
Jun 22 10:26:30 <Lava_Croft> that doesnt help if you cannot grab the application anymore
Jun 22 10:30:47 <Win7Mac> yeah, too late now :(
Jun 22 10:31:30 <Win7Mac> chem|st, thanks for the new banner on TMO
Jun 22 10:37:14 <Lava_Croft> wauw
Jun 22 10:37:17 <Lava_Croft> Ovi Store is really mangled
Jun 22 10:37:20 <Lava_Croft> https://proto.nokia.com/
Jun 22 10:37:26 <Lava_Croft> they web front-end's support link gets you there:D
Jun 22 10:44:00 <DocScrutinizer05> pretty much HAHA
Jun 22 10:48:39 <Win7Mac> Lava_Croft, for future purpose: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1353830#post1353830
Jun 22 10:49:29 <DocScrutinizer05> *SIGH* 17844 nobody    20   0 10.9g 7.4g  396 S   10 95.5   0:27.43 varnishd                                                                                                                         
Jun 22 10:51:11 <warfare> DocScrutinizer05: on stage? 
Jun 22 10:51:28 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Jun 22 10:51:45 <rikanee> DocScrtuinizer05: that's one busy caching server
Jun 22 10:51:55 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Jun 22 10:52:33 <DocScrutinizer05> but our server should handle that more cracefully
Jun 22 10:53:40 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not OK for varnish to eat all RAM and even swap
Jun 22 10:54:02 <DocScrutinizer05> actaully it's silly to use swap at all for a webserver
Jun 22 10:54:36 <DocScrutinizer05> swap makes things 10 times worse
Jun 22 10:56:02 <warfare> hm, varnish is configured for 512M cachesize. 
Jun 22 10:56:12 <DocScrutinizer05> since instead of either serving a request from RAM or in case it's not available in RAM then directly read content from "source" html/whatever-file, the IO now goes busy with swapping OUT and in stuff on a factors higer volume
Jun 22 10:57:44 <warfare> Do you keep restarting varnish? 
Jun 22 10:57:46 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: per every of the 2596 concurrent instances?
Jun 22 10:57:50 <DocScrutinizer05> no
Jun 22 10:57:55 <warfare> DocScrutinizer05: no, in total. 
Jun 22 10:57:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't restart anything
Jun 22 10:58:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I do nothing
Jun 22 10:58:22 <DocScrutinizer05> except looking at top
Jun 22 11:00:34 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: I suspect cronjobs
Jun 22 11:00:55 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: around?
Jun 22 11:03:57 <DocScrutinizer05> 22190 nobody    20   0 11.1g 7.5g    0 R   42 96.6   0:41.74 varnishd  
Jun 22 11:04:22 <warfare> DocScrutinizer05: something like that. 
Jun 22 11:05:05 <warfare> I'll disable varnish for a few minutes, so I can work on the machine. 
Jun 22 11:05:25 <DocScrutinizer05> ok
Jun 22 11:05:35 <DocScrutinizer05> no use in that anyway:
Jun 22 11:05:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Jun 22 10:44:59 stage kernel: [6582501.370903] apache2 invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0xd0, order=0, oom_adj=0, oom_score_adj=0
Jun 22 11:06:38 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm quite puzzled syslog stalls at 10:45
Jun 22 11:06:46 <DocScrutinizer05> 20min ago
Jun 22 11:12:12 <DocScrutinizer05> now if only I knew where varnish hides its access.log
Jun 22 11:13:14 <DocScrutinizer05> nm, found it
Jun 22 11:15:16 <DocScrutinizer05> some mirror on 111.165.44.233 I guess
Jun 22 11:16:10 <DocScrutinizer05> wait, nope
Jun 22 11:30:21 <warfare> Ok, better now. 
Jun 22 11:45:37 <Lava_Croft> Win7Mac: i saw that, thanks
Jun 22 11:50:52 <DocScrutinizer05> warfare: thanks!
Jun 22 12:03:01 <Win7Mac> voted!
Jun 22 12:05:52 <Win7Mac> DocScrutinizer05, probably mention running election in channel topic?
Jun 22 12:11:00 <Win7Mac> GREAT, THANKS!
Jun 22 13:02:12 <GeneralAntilles> Elections. Must mean it's time for me to clean the wiki.
Jun 22 13:02:15 <GeneralAntilles> Tonight.
Jun 22 13:03:37 <Win7Mac> GA, what exactly has to be cleaned?
Jun 22 13:13:07 <Win7Mac> GA, if I can take care of that, pass it over and I'll gladly do it. You could probably better do yesterdays meeting follow up?
Jun 22 13:16:55 <GeneralAntilles> Well, you need to know Media wiki markup.
Jun 22 13:17:14 <GeneralAntilles> I'll have plenty of time tonight.
Jun 22 13:17:22 <GeneralAntilles> Massive book signing today, though.
Jun 22 13:17:36 <Win7Mac> now that I have a link to a wiki-wiki... ;-)
Jun 22 13:22:35 <GeneralAntilles> It's a bit wall o text right now.
Jun 22 13:23:09 <GeneralAntilles> I was going to move the questionnaire answers and full nomination response to separate sections
Jun 22 13:23:42 <GeneralAntilles> and do candidate abstracts with short excerpts from the nominations at the top.
Jun 22 13:29:54 <Win7Mac> ok, go ahead then
Jun 22 13:40:19 * andre__ happy to see GeneralAntilles running
Jun 22 13:46:17 <GeneralAntilles> Hey-oh, andre__
Jun 22 13:46:24 <andre__> hola
Jun 22 13:48:24 <GeneralAntilles> I've been sucked back into the insanity. ;)
Jun 22 13:49:13 <Lava_Croft> Slight insanity is a prerequisite in order to be able to hang around Maemo!
Jun 22 13:49:40 <andre__> hehe
Jun 22 14:08:40 <Lava_Croft> its true, normal people dont use Maemo! :)
Jun 22 14:47:37 <Shapeshifter> So I got myself a new (genuine) battery but I'm still having very short life times imo. I don't remember the battery on my n900 draining this quickly when I first got it. Is this normal? Look at the last two cycles: http://jackfruit.icu.uzh.ch/~archer/BatteryGraph_20130622163243.png Pl 
Jun 22 14:49:43 <Shapeshifter> I get maybe 10h max without really using it at all. I'm not running anything in the background except 30min email checks, 1 gtalk account and 2 sip accounts.
Jun 22 14:57:53 <rikanee> Shapeshifter: when was that BL-5J made?
Jun 22 14:59:04 <Shapeshifter> rikanee: how can I find out?
Jun 22 14:59:16 <rikanee> Shapeshifter: no clue.
Jun 22 14:59:24 <rikanee> batteries do have a shelf-life too.
Jun 22 15:03:14 <Shapeshifter> Bah. There's so much wrong with the N900 but there's even more wrong with the other crap phones they make these days...
Jun 22 15:03:40 <Lava_Croft> thats why all those other devices are to limited
Jun 22 15:03:45 <Lava_Croft> less chance of shit not working
Jun 22 15:03:56 <Lava_Croft> to/so
Jun 22 15:04:07 <Lava_Croft> Shapeshifter: there was a way to check up on the wakeups the CPU gets
Jun 22 15:04:17 <Lava_Croft> so you can find out any possible offending applications that might drain your battery
Jun 22 15:04:30 <Lava_Croft> but meh, i forgot exactly how, maybe i just cough DocScrutinizer05's name
Jun 22 15:11:02 <Shapeshifter> Lava_Croft: mhh. seems like there's no powertop packages for the n900. must be something else.
Jun 22 15:11:10 <Lava_Croft> there is
Jun 22 15:12:15 <Lava_Croft> Shapeshifter: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle-1.3/non-free/p/powertop/
Jun 22 15:13:01 <Lava_Croft> Shapeshifter: in my experience, over the years, it mostly was 'handy' statusmenu plugins orso that used python that would drain my battery
Jun 22 15:31:11 <Shapeshifter> Lava_Croft: the only ones I use are the one that comes with profilesX and orientation lock
Jun 22 15:31:33 <Shapeshifter> and screen brightness.
Jun 22 15:33:51 <Shapeshifter> I think sooner or later I'll go for one of the cheap nokia WP8 phones... They can't do much but have very good maps/navigation, good performance even on cheap models (unlike power hungry android) and the battery usually lasts several days. But not yet... <3 maemo
Jun 22 15:41:57 <Shapeshifter> btw, is erminig-ng still the only tool able to sync multiple google calendars?
Jun 22 15:50:50 <Lava_Croft> wait around for jolla
Jun 22 15:51:10 <Lava_Croft> or wait for nokia to start produces phones with software that people want
Jun 22 17:25:46 <Lava_Croft> DocScrutinizer05: I try to get the application I own on Ovi the same way I got my N900 back
Jun 22 17:26:14 <Lava_Croft> Whine openly to Nokia on social media
Jun 22 20:35:47 <johnathondode> Hi guys.
Jun 22 20:36:00 <johnathondode> I am having an issue with the N900 wherein it refuses to get a GPS lock.
Jun 22 20:36:09 <johnathondode> It is stuck at "Looking for GPS.."
Jun 22 20:36:16 <johnathondode> Anyone faced any similar issues?
Jun 22 20:38:14 <ecc3g> check your SUPL server? (settings/Location/Network positioning)
Jun 22 20:38:26 <johnathondode> supl.nokia.com / supl.google.com 
Jun 22 20:38:27 <johnathondode> Tried both
Jun 22 20:38:48 <johnathondode> The GPS icon keeps blinking non stop in the notification tray as well.
Jun 22 20:40:39 <ecc3g> do you have "GPSData" from extras? 
Jun 22 20:41:46 <ecc3g> see if you can get the signal from any satellites at all?
Jun 22 20:45:34 <johnathondode> I just installed GPSData, but it simply crashed and disappeared as soon as I ran it.
Jun 22 20:46:03 <johnathondode> Could it be possible that my GPS hardware thingy is done for good?
Jun 22 20:52:34 <ecc3g> hmm...that's not a good sign...
Jun 22 20:52:42 <ecc3g> even after reboot?
Jun 22 20:53:49 <ecc3g> I think my 5230 has a more sensitive GPS receiver than my n900...
Jun 22 20:54:43 <johnathondode> Yes, it's almost never worked since I bought it second hand
Jun 22 20:54:54 <johnathondode> Well not almost, never.
Jun 22 20:55:12 <johnathondode> I guess it's time has really run out :/
Jun 22 20:59:34 <ecc3g> hmm...did you ever reflash it?
Jun 22 20:59:49 <ecc3g> that would rule out software conflicts...
Jun 22 21:00:23 <ecc3g> ahh finally got a lock... so slow...
Jun 22 21:05:42 <johnathondode> Yes I did, the first time
Jun 22 21:05:57 <johnathondode> Almost an year ago
Jun 22 21:06:20 <johnathondode> I got this damn cheap ~ 150$ mint condition
Jun 22 21:06:45 <johnathondode> Even calling it mint would be an understatement
Jun 22 21:54:22 <nox-> moin
Jun 22 21:54:47 <nox-> whats the issue with monav in extras-devel, do i really need to generate maps myself?
Jun 22 22:03:35 <DocScrutinizer05> jonathant: checj yiur time/date
Jun 22 22:03:45 <DocScrutinizer05> jonathant: check your time/date
Jun 22 22:04:40 <DocScrutinizer05> Lava_Croft: good
Jun 22 22:18:36 <Lava_Croft> oh btw
Jun 22 22:18:47 <Lava_Croft> i registered my n9's imei as a nokia prototype
Jun 22 22:18:55 <Lava_Croft> i just recieved a confirmation email
Jun 22 22:18:57 <Lava_Croft> good system
Jun 22 22:19:13 <Lava_Croft> this prototype is my responsibility now
Jun 22 22:21:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ROTFL
Jun 22 22:21:43 <rikanee> oh, hey, nice.
Jun 22 22:22:31 <rikanee> did they laser units with the URL and asked "please turn in your protos instead of selling them on eBay please?"
Jun 22 22:26:00 <GeneralAntilles> Property of Nokia
Jun 22 22:26:32 <GeneralAntilles> I should've retired my N900 proto before the USB port fell out.
Jun 22 22:27:04 <rikanee> GeneralAntilles: are those the rev. 1801 devices?
Jun 22 22:28:14 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: (let) fix the USB
Jun 22 22:28:51 <DocScrutinizer05> GeneralAntilles: actually USB is a *simple* defect that's *always* fixable
Jun 22 22:38:10 <n900-dk_> Shouldn't the latest CSSU fix this? "GPG error: https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release: The following signatures were invalid: KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 KEYEXPIRED 1349249546"
Jun 22 22:45:12 <Macer> heh
Jun 22 22:46:46 <DocScrutinizer05> n900-dk_: alas we didn't fix that yet
Jun 22 22:50:24 <GI_Jack> GeneralAntilles, you should have fixed the USB port
Jun 22 22:50:34 <GI_Jack> they are $5 USD on ebay
Jun 22 22:51:54 <Win7Mac> aloha!
Jun 22 22:52:15 <Win7Mac> GeneralAntilles, I'm up for some wiki-edits
Jun 22 22:52:33 <Win7Mac> if you need a hand
Jun 22 22:55:19 <GeneralAntilles> Win7Mac, getting home in about 40 minutes.
Jun 22 22:55:26 <GeneralAntilles> I think I'll be alright.
Jun 22 22:55:49 <GeneralAntilles> GI_Jack, qgil shipped me a new one. ;)
Jun 22 23:14:03 <Win7Mac> good night
Jun 23 00:50:47 <DocScrutinizer05> http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-devel/2013-June/004228.html  \o/
Jun 23 00:52:07 <DocScrutinizer05> http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-devel/2013-June/004229.html conf/nokia900/libphoneui.conf
Jun 23 00:52:57 <DocScrutinizer05> It's a pity, a shame, that meego refused to consider fso as middleware
Jun 23 00:53:16 <DocScrutinizer05> fsck ofono
Jun 23 00:53:24 <GI_Jack> fuck meego, what about jolla
Jun 23 00:53:40 <GI_Jack> I am hoping for some serious partnership, did they at least contact you guys
Jun 23 01:00:29 <DocScrutinizer05> just in case you missed the facts: jolla makes sailfish, which is based on mer, which is based on meego partially at least
Jun 23 01:00:51 <GI_Jack> which is based on maemo partially
Jun 23 01:01:03 <DocScrutinizer05> so what?
Jun 23 01:01:37 <GI_Jack> and jolla is run by same maemo/meego dev team that made the n9, n950, and n900
Jun 23 01:02:01 <DocScrutinizer05> seems you got enough to read for a long weekend
Jun 23 01:02:08 <GI_Jack> oh boy
Jun 23 01:03:23 <GI_Jack> so no one is trying to get the same experiance and community we have on maemo on sailfish, being sailfish will have new devices, factory support, and a future
Jun 23 01:03:37 <GI_Jack> unless of course you have plans for new maemo devices
Jun 23 01:04:10 <GI_Jack> DocScrutinizer05, I do have the CSSU on my n900 and I thank you for your continuted support
Jun 23 01:04:16 <GI_Jack> and everyone else who contributes
Jun 23 01:05:13 <GI_Jack> its awesome, but at the same time lets face it your only prolonging the inveniable, maemo will die, if nothing else, there will come a time when all the n900s will fail, and they will become rarities, as there are only so many and you can't make more
Jun 23 01:06:25 <GI_Jack> and if you could, the hardware is starting to show its age, not a problem at present, but it will become obsolete to the point its not usable on modern data networks, or with modern protocols
Jun 23 01:07:14 <DocScrutinizer05> who the fuck is "you" in your rant?
Jun 23 01:07:40 <GI_Jack> everyone who has a part in making CSSU and continued community support
Jun 23 01:07:47 * GI_Jack *head desk*
Jun 23 01:08:00 <DocScrutinizer05> *I* for one have no plans to make new maemo devices on my own, in my garage
Jun 23 01:08:20 <GI_Jack> thats the point,
Jun 23 01:08:40 <GI_Jack> no one does, the platform will die
Jun 23 01:08:51 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's the point, so why don't you make them, then?
Jun 23 01:09:17 <GI_Jack> DocScrutinizer05, because I'm not smart enough. I'm fairly clever, but thats it
Jun 23 01:09:27 <DocScrutinizer05> daddy Nokia is gone, the community is on its own
Jun 23 01:09:52 <GI_Jack> I am going to find another device that runs linux on a cell phone, because I'm not sharp enough to make one myself
Jun 23 01:11:03 <GI_Jack> so unless I am missing something really huge about these jolla people, and if I am, can you please link some reading material, they seem like the option
Jun 23 01:13:53 <DocScrutinizer05> GI_Jack: though I can't balme you for it since you're in company of a felt 90% of community, you still suffer a misconception: There is no way to port the maemo OS and community to new platform, whatever it is. Heck not even Nokia was able to port maemo4/diablo to maemo5/fremantle, and they failed even more on porting maemo5/fremantle to meego(maemo6)/harmattan
Jun 23 01:15:11 <DocScrutinizer05> it's up to every single member in community what will be their next device/platform/OS
Jun 23 01:15:23 * GI_Jack sighs
Jun 23 01:15:27 <GI_Jack> I guess it is what it is
Jun 23 01:15:38 <GI_Jack> I just want I have on the desktop
Jun 23 01:16:02 <GI_Jack> even if there are a fuckton of distros they all share a close enough code base that chroot from a livecd of one works in another
Jun 23 01:16:20 <DocScrutinizer05> so what?
Jun 23 01:16:39 <DocScrutinizer05> easybeb works on fremantle
Jun 23 01:16:44 <GI_Jack> I just want that experiance withi linux on phones
Jun 23 01:16:45 <DocScrutinizer05> deb even
Jun 23 01:17:37 <GI_Jack> no, not as in litterally using debian, but the organziation and institutional knowledge of linux, works mostly the same accross diffrent and disintrested platforms
Jun 23 01:17:40 <DocScrutinizer05> the point is that your chroot on arbitrary distros only works as long as they use the same architecture and even fairly compatible kernel versions
Jun 23 01:18:12 <GI_Jack> Or even, if I enjoy using one program that has source code availabe on one distro, most likely I can find it on another
Jun 23 01:18:26 <GI_Jack> with the same window managers, and the same browsers, etc..
Jun 23 01:18:30 <GI_Jack> and use the same configs
Jun 23 01:18:33 <DocScrutinizer05> and your take on "works the same" is just what all those android dudes claim when they call android "linux"
Jun 23 01:19:13 <GI_Jack> DocScrutinizer05, not "works the same" exactly, but close enough some half bright idjit like me can do the porting
Jun 23 01:19:35 <GI_Jack> its even the reason I have a seperate  /home parition, so I can format / and /boot
Jun 23 01:19:50 <GI_Jack> and use whatever I want, and after installing something completely diffrent my settings are there
Jun 23 01:20:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and I even fail to find a contemporaray version of twinklephone for KDE4, not to mention any version for gnome or even more exotic window managers, on x86 architecture for mouse and hw kbd
Jun 23 01:21:41 <GI_Jack> so it won't run on gnome or KDE4, don't believe that, because most KDE  apps run fine in gnome
Jun 23 01:21:53 <GI_Jack> they just have a nasty habbit of pulling KDElibs and using a fuckton of space
Jun 23 01:22:23 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, I heard somebody ran kde4 in easydeb and openoffice in kde4 in easydeb, on fremantle
Jun 23 01:22:32 <GI_Jack> I don't doubt it
Jun 23 01:22:36 <GI_Jack> and thats awesome
Jun 23 01:24:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I however miss your point in your rant about missing cooperation between jolla and "us"
Jun 23 01:24:20 <GI_Jack> whatever....
Jun 23 01:25:48 <DocScrutinizer05> you can't port maemo5 to a new platform basically, unless you rewrite a lot of the closed blobs
Jun 23 01:26:14 <DocScrutinizer05> you can try to offer a compatibility layer, like cordia
Jun 23 01:27:06 <DocScrutinizer05> community is free to develop and provice such maemo5 compatibility layer for sailfish
Jun 23 01:27:14 <DocScrutinizer05> provide*
Jun 23 01:28:09 <DocScrutinizer05> jolly *could* port sailfish to N900 (though presumably with massive deficiencies regarding performance and functionality), and that's been suggested by me ~6 months ago
Jun 23 01:28:40 <DocScrutinizer05> this however doesn't help secure the future of maemo5 OS
Jun 23 01:29:52 <GI_Jack> the n900 won't have the umph to run sailfish
Jun 23 01:30:08 <DocScrutinizer05> the future of maemo5/fremantle is in users taking care about their valuable N900 devices so not to damage them, and in CSSU team providing life support when any bugs show up that would result in "bitrot"
Jun 23 01:30:47 <GI_Jack> because it didn't have the ummph to run harttaman/meego, because I flashed it on there and it was slow as dogshit
Jun 23 01:31:18 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh when sailfish is so heavy and does scale that poorly to different platforms and the resources available, then it's maybe not worth the hype
Jun 23 01:31:58 <DocScrutinizer05> you did WHAT? harmattan on N900? ugh, you're a wizard
Jun 23 01:32:29 <GI_Jack> DocScrutinizer05, there was a semi-official FIASCO image
Jun 23 01:32:51 <GI_Jack> it was on maemo.org like 3 years ago
Jun 23 01:33:17 <GI_Jack> right before the n950 was supposed to launch
Jun 23 02:19:41 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway regarding that "some serious partnership" with jolla, could you elaborate what you expect to see getting done, and to whom jolla is supposed to suggest it?
Jun 23 02:21:26 <DocScrutinizer05> there been several approaches, reasonable and weird bold ones, public and secrete, and I can't think of any partnership to establish that hasn't been suggested and offered yet
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 23 02:59:58 2013