**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 24 02:59:59 2013
Jul 24 03:01:18 * psycho_oreos shakes head and wonders how active is that one person. Maybe if that one person didn't give that much personal contact info, then it might be safer to somehow use an alternative way (i.e. assign a new person, notify the old person that they were not able to contact with him/her. Then the new person quickly takes on the role of getting it sorted).
Jul 24 03:03:12 <psycho_oreos> If they were to leave you hanging by a thread when you're struggling already then I guess in some ways it can be an open invitation to try and look at alternatives until they manage to get themselves sorted.
Jul 24 03:03:14 <DocScrutinizer05> that's already established
Jul 24 03:03:17 <FIQ|n900> or simply ask this person stalling everything to actually do something?
Jul 24 03:05:33 <psycho_oreos> I don't know, if they were notified of new changes but they seem to have lost interest in it. Then its time to seek alternate solutions rather than still hoping for that one person to come back.
Jul 24 03:08:46 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I simply stopped taking care about a lot of all that
Jul 24 03:09:03 <psycho_oreos> I'd also notify members of HiFo BoD that you're facing a difficult situation and that you can no longer keep maintaining. If they can't sort this out within time you need to try and make amends on somehow making the service alive whilst being funded from some other source.
Jul 24 03:12:05 <DocScrutinizer05> I simply wonder if that's a sustainable situation when 1 of 1000 bothers to help in whatever way, while 999/1000 have an approach of "it stll works. if it stops working, I'll have to think about alternatives"
Jul 24 03:14:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and particularly I wonder how much of a fool I am to waste my life on that 1/1000
Jul 24 03:14:18 <psycho_oreos> Probably not, but that's pretty much how projects die when the rest doesn't really care. To make matters worse is really the economy, I'd help out if I could but I've got personal issues on my own.
Jul 24 03:15:14 <DocScrutinizer05> psycho_oreos: not asking you to help out
Jul 24 03:15:28 <DocScrutinizer05> this wouldn't help in the end
Jul 24 03:15:33 <SAiF> I wish I could do something, I am not technically skilled, and I am a student with part time job,  Tell me if there is something I can do..
Jul 24 03:15:35 <psycho_oreos> I know, just inputting on where I stand as well.
Jul 24 03:16:06 <FIQ|n900> how much is needed economically for maemo.org to still work
Jul 24 03:16:20 <DocScrutinizer05> we need more manpower, and I need a job, either crwdfunded or sponsored by a company interested in maemo, or I vanish here and do sth else
Jul 24 03:19:09 <DocScrutinizer05> actually council could do >>Hiring of maemo.org staff<<
Jul 24 03:19:20 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Council_work
Jul 24 03:22:34 <DocScrutinizer05> this was a normal thing when Nokia paid for it. Maybe community could think about allowing same for council to do from funds that council/HiFo collects
Jul 24 03:23:45 <DocScrutinizer05> shawnjefferson: you were interested in...?
Jul 24 03:24:01 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW what VMs you need an account?
Jul 24 03:27:02 <shawnjefferson22> It was mainly autobuilder i guess, mainly because it seemed the system having the most issues that needed some help
Jul 24 03:29:25 * psycho_oreos wonders if that council work page is still relevant, last modification was not long ago yet there were still topics like N900 DDP and that they cannot change nokia's commercial decision on commercial support for meego on N900.
Jul 24 03:31:52 <DocScrutinizer05> shawnjefferson: please try ssh sjeffers@www.maemo.org
Jul 24 03:36:09 <DocScrutinizer05> psycho_oreos: I dunno if it's still relevant. Heck, I dunno if maemo at large is any more relevant
Jul 24 03:37:21 <DocScrutinizer05> psycho_oreos: we could do a little experiment: I shut down repo.m.o and www.m.o and wiki.m.o, then let's see how long it takes till *anybody* complains
Jul 24 03:37:22 <shawnjefferson22> DocScrutinzer05: did you use the ssh key I sent to techstaff email?  if so i need to get on my other computer to test
Jul 24 03:37:32 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Jul 24 03:37:47 <DocScrutinizer05> or do you want me to use a different key?
Jul 24 03:39:09 <shawnjefferson22> no, that's good, it's just my daughter is watching a movie on that computer at the moment. I'll try a bit later and let you know.  Thanks!
Jul 24 03:39:15 <psycho_oreos> DocScrutinizer05, LOL @ the latter comment. I was thinking along the same lines as well, just show the page 503 Service Unavailable. That would really put a fire on some people's back :D. I found an interesting page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Community_fund
Jul 24 03:41:02 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, that is the ancient page where some council member first considered what today became HiFo?
Jul 24 03:41:22 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, it is
Jul 24 03:41:44 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Community_Council/Community_fund&action=history  ;-P
Jul 24 03:42:58 <psycho_oreos> Notable stuff mentioned there but took them awhile to get new BoD sorted, it states that "Upon being elected, the Council would select a Treasurer for their term. This must be completed within four weeks of the election." So by the fourth week, the current (which would be now known as the outgoing) treasurer would be considered no longer active.
Jul 24 03:44:15 * psycho_oreos just looks at the footer information instead. "This page was last modified on 26 March 2011, at 13:40"
Jul 24 03:44:45 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, but it also needs current treasurer (who actually is never been appointed as treasurer) to hand over access to the assets
Jul 24 03:45:30 <DocScrutinizer05> all hail to jaffa for setting up that page and the whole idea, first instance
Jul 24 03:46:18 <psycho_oreos> Ultimately the person who was never been appointed as the treasurer sort of now "ran away" with those assets.
Jul 24 03:46:37 <DocScrutinizer05> not sure about that
Jul 24 03:46:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ask BoD
Jul 24 03:47:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly feel a severe burnout syndrome whenever thinking about any of that stuff
Jul 24 03:49:24 <psycho_oreos> I was reading one of their minute sessions and it was supposedly one person that was not there at the time of meeting which ironically was controlling the finances.
Jul 24 03:49:47 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jul 24 03:50:05 <psycho_oreos> Besides its been weeks since that meeting was there.
Jul 24 03:50:17 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Jul 24 03:51:33 <DocScrutinizer05> while stuff like new marble version upload to repo block on infra not working and nobody taking care
Jul 24 03:53:16 <DocScrutinizer05> and all other stuff bitrots as well
Jul 24 03:54:28 <DocScrutinizer05> repo schizoid fremantle-1.3 vs fremantle pending since start of January
Jul 24 03:54:40 <DocScrutinizer05> repo also has checksum errors again
Jul 24 03:55:09 <DocScrutinizer05> user account data not propagating from garage to the other VM
Jul 24 03:56:55 <DocScrutinizer05> repo management spammed database with bogus recuring "remiving old package version", but doesn't handle promote (even from autobulder to extras-devel), delete, or proper signing new repo packages.gz
Jul 24 03:57:16 <DocScrutinizer05> until we recently disabled it to stop the spamming
Jul 24 03:58:12 <DocScrutinizer05> apache blows chunks on any "unusual" load, e.g from web spiders
Jul 24 03:58:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and midgard... don't ask
Jul 24 03:58:57 <psycho_oreos> I've heard from time to time midgard issues were appearing.
Jul 24 03:59:42 <DocScrutinizer05> all of this been heritage either from not doing any service during summer til newyear 2012, or (most of it) even got introduced during migration#1
Jul 24 04:21:12 <psycho_oreos> I guess inevitably due to dying interests, even at this point in time there's only very few chatting activities going on compared to what was then more active.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 24 05:27:42 2013
Jul 24 05:29:08 <DrCode> hi all
Jul 24 05:29:23 <DrCode> when using maemo format on microsd, what filetype it make?
Jul 24 05:29:23 <DrCode> fat or ext2?
Jul 24 06:00:36 <SAiF> most fones do Fat, i guess. I dont know maemo though
Jul 24 06:04:51 <brolin_empey> Pali: Can you please add some new products (USB Vendor ID + Product ID) to asix.c and dm9601.c in the Maemo 5 power kernel?
Jul 24 06:05:17 <Pali> brolin_empey: yes, please send me patch
Jul 24 06:06:55 <brolin_empey> Pali: My patches have been to asix.ko and dm9601.ko instead of asix.c and dm9601.c .
Jul 24 06:07:44 <Pali> what? patching binary files??
Jul 24 06:08:34 <brolin_empey> Pali: However, only my patch to asix.ko seems to have succeeded.
Jul 24 06:09:57 <brolin_empey> Pali: Yes, I patched the .ko binary files because I did not want to sidetrack myself with the project of trying to rebuild the power kernel from source.
Jul 24 06:10:26 <Pali> ah...
Jul 24 06:12:09 <brolin_empey> Pali: Can I provide just the new USB Vendor ID + Product ID combinations to add?  I need only 2 additions to dm9601.c and 1 addition to asix.c .
Jul 24 06:12:54 <Pali> if you can create patch file
Jul 24 06:13:31 <Pali> $ diff -Naurp file.org file.new > patch
Jul 24 06:14:52 <brolin_empey> Pali: You can just copy and paste an existing product entry and change the IDs.
Jul 24 06:15:24 <Pali> or send me new edited files
Jul 24 06:26:45 <brolin_empey> Pali: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/tree/drivers/net/usb/asix_devices.c?id=refs/tags/v3.10.2#n1046
Jul 24 06:27:25 <brolin_empey> Pali: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/tree/drivers/net/usb/asix_devices.c?id=refs/tags/v3.10.2#n1046
Jul 24 06:28:46 <Pali> please can you send me at least changed file(s)? Do not want to guess which other structures need to be added...
Jul 24 06:32:01 <brolin_empey> Pali: Yes, I can try.  Is there any chance of using a newer Linux kernel than version 2.6.28 on Maemo 5?
Jul 24 06:32:43 <Pali> brolin_empey: I'm already trying it... but GSM/3G not working
Jul 24 06:33:04 <Pali> and lot of other closed source nokia apps not working too...
Jul 24 06:35:09 <brolin_empey> Pali: Using a newer kernel on Maemo 5 seems better than trying to backport changes from kernel version 3.x to the antiquated kernel version 2.6.28 .
Jul 24 06:35:23 <Pali> no, no
Jul 24 06:35:32 <Pali> upstream kernel on maemo5 is unusable
Jul 24 06:36:04 <Pali> and never be, because of nokia closed source apps which cannot be diagnoticated & fixed
Jul 24 06:37:07 <brolin_empey> Pali: Specifically which applications are unusable with a newer kernel version?
Jul 24 06:37:26 <Pali> Phone application
Jul 24 06:37:29 <Pali> MCE daemon
Jul 24 06:37:45 <Pali> everything with GSM/3G stack
Jul 24 06:38:04 <Pali> accelerometer applications
Jul 24 06:38:26 <Pali> and upstream kernel has very bad power saving
Jul 24 06:39:55 <brolin_empey> Pali: OK, then can we just backport the products added to both asix.c and dm9601.c since kernel version 2.6.28 ?
Jul 24 08:54:05 <Sicelo> btw, which is 'power-saving' state of cpu.. C0 or C4?
Jul 24 09:08:23 <FIQ|n900> hi
Jul 24 09:08:29 <FIQ|n900> so the stalling happened again
Jul 24 09:08:40 <FIQ|n900> this time I was able to follow the progress exactly
Jul 24 09:08:54 <FIQ|n900> and the issue seems to be on this command:
Jul 24 09:08:57 <FIQ|n900> initctl emit MOUNTS_OK
Jul 24 09:09:04 <FIQ|n900> in rcS-late
Jul 24 09:09:22 <FIQ|n900> This command was running for 7 minutes straight without anything else happening
Jul 24 09:12:06 <FIQ|n900> this is provided by upstart, and I don't know how initctl works internally or why it might stall for several minutes
Jul 24 09:23:09 <FIQ|n900> heh... googling "initctl stalling" brought up an ubuntu forum post, and http://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html ouch!
Jul 24 10:46:47 <DrCode> hi al
Jul 24 10:46:49 <DrCode> all
Jul 24 10:47:05 <DrCode> if I use maemo format for microsf , what filetype it uses?
Jul 24 11:03:25 <Sicelo> DrCode: FAT
Jul 24 11:34:24 <DrCode> wow, I see
Jul 24 11:34:50 <DrCode> thank you
Jul 24 12:02:59 <brolin_empey> Wow, I suck at (digital still) photography: out of 24 shots, only 1 is actually worth publishing. :/
Jul 24 12:06:26 <brolin_empey> 24 shots of the same subject in the same place. :/
Jul 24 12:07:24 <FIQ|n900> DocScrutinizer05: psycho_oreos: thanks for the tip regarding loose battery
Jul 24 12:07:50 <FIQ|n900> I solved it partially - can't solve it fully as I noticed something annoying
Jul 24 12:08:20 <FIQ|n900> one of my batteries has had its' topmost (opposite side of connector) piece of plastic gone
Jul 24 12:08:46 <FIQ|n900> asked about this in here before, this is no issue with its' usage, no increased risks etc
Jul 24 12:09:12 <FIQ|n900> however, it apparently has a *significant* effect on how the springs/whatever hold it in place
Jul 24 12:09:47 <FIQ|n900> I used my stylus (which I don't use otherwise - wouldn't have cared if it broke, which it didn't) to bend up these
Jul 24 12:10:15 <FIQ|n900> It made the "complete" battery sit in place again, and even to the point it was becoming hard to put in
Jul 24 12:10:38 <FIQ|n900> The other, on the other hand, while not falling if device is held upside down anymore, is still loose
Jul 24 12:11:24 <FIQ|n900> And as I want to be able to use both of my batteries, I can't bend it further as that would make the complete one a pain or even impossible to insert
Jul 24 12:12:01 <FIQ|n900> Better than how it was before, but not perfect
Jul 24 12:12:19 <FIQ|n900> I assume this solution will at least prevent random shutdowns if sudden moves happen
Jul 24 12:18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ|n900: how about fixing your broken battery? adding some arbitrary piece of plastic cut to shape shouldn't be too hard to do
Jul 24 12:20:28 <FIQ|n900> I guess that could work, dunno what would be optimal though
Jul 24 12:53:17 <brolin_empey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/brolin_empey/9358788130/
Jul 24 13:17:29 <Sicelo> 3
Jul 24 13:26:41 <DocScrutinizer05> 2
Jul 24 13:26:55 <brolin_empey> 1
Jul 24 13:27:00 <DocScrutinizer05> BOOM
Jul 24 13:27:51 <brolin_empey> DocScrutinizer05: prboom? ;-)
Jul 24 13:28:22 <DocScrutinizer05> now for my daily 15min frustrating experience: /join #kde, ask some  obvious but probably annoying questions about kmail and GPG
Jul 24 16:29:50 <DocScrutinizer05> hi Woody14619
Jul 24 16:31:26 <SAiF> Doc, you dont sleep?
Jul 24 16:31:38 <Woody14619> hi DocScrutinizer05. :)
Jul 24 16:38:45 <DocScrutinizer05> SAiF: why should I sleep?
Jul 24 16:40:31 <DocScrutinizer05> SAiF: when you mean the C-states, I usually have at least 20% C4 and >75% lower than C1
Jul 24 16:43:04 <DocScrutinizer05> C0 is needed only for seconds
Jul 24 16:47:31 <SAiF> you are funny, idont understand most of what you are saying.
Jul 24 16:47:52 <SAiF> neever mind :)
Jul 24 17:00:43 <ecc2g> I need time to be moved to S3
Jul 24 17:35:08 <thedead1440> SAiF: there is never a time for sleeping in JRTSV (doc
Jul 24 17:35:21 <thedead1440> s/(doc/(doc's own timezone)/
Jul 24 17:35:22 <infobot> thedead1440 meant: SAiF: there is never a time for sleeping in JRTSV (doc's own timezone)
Jul 24 17:45:48 <SAiF> Any way I am gonna sleep. good night (UGT) .. :)
Jul 24 17:45:54 <Apic> cu B-)
Jul 24 20:20:38 <Earthwings_> hi DocScrutinizer05, long time no see :)
Jul 24 20:22:12 <Earthwings_> DocScrutinizer05: can you look into account/permission stuff? shentey asked for permission to upload packages to extras-devel some weeks ago, but nothing happened seemingly
Jul 24 20:23:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I answered we proceeded the request but the borked infra might not work as supposed, and we need feedback what doesn't work and needs further hard kicks in the buttocks
Jul 24 20:24:14 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, I can look in some of the permission stuff, when I know what for to look exactly
Jul 24 20:38:15 <DocScrutinizer05> Earthwings_: shentey has extras-account status: accepted
Jul 24 20:38:45 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a known problem that garage account status doesn't propagate to the other VMs
Jul 24 20:42:57 <DocScrutinizer05> Earthwings_: sorry I can't check every single detail to make sure what's OK and what needs manual fixing. I need specific reports about stuff that doesn't work, and which account, URL, whatever I shall look at. 
Jul 24 20:44:57 <df_newbie> is there a way to activate the cameras flash light (via console or something), while another app is using & blocking the camera, but does not support activating the flashlight?
Jul 24 20:45:05 <df_newbie> on the n900~
Jul 24 20:45:16 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, hardly
Jul 24 20:46:09 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno but i'd guess the v4l2 dev/video or whatever interface can't get opened by multiple processes concurrently
Jul 24 20:46:53 <df_newbie> yea, but the flashlight shouldnt be part of the v4l device context, should it?
Jul 24 20:47:11 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh, iirc the flashlight applet actually *needs* camera opened to show up in system menu
Jul 24 20:47:18 <df_newbie> was just hoping there was some device node for the flashlight like there is for the keyboard leds
Jul 24 20:47:34 <DocScrutinizer05> the flashlight *is* part of the v4l2 interface afaik
Jul 24 20:47:47 <DocScrutinizer05> alas there isn't
Jul 24 20:47:58 <df_newbie> ah.. damn
Jul 24 20:48:05 <DocScrutinizer05> (a device node for flash leds)
Jul 24 20:48:21 <DocScrutinizer05> look into flashlight applet, I think it's python
Jul 24 20:48:57 <DocScrutinizer05> which would mean you basically already got your cmdline way to activate it
Jul 24 20:49:21 <df_newbie> well i was playing around with the phonestreamer thing (stream video over wlan to laptop), but its horrid under dark'ish light conditions. sadly, it doesnt know about the flashlight it seems
Jul 24 20:50:02 <DocScrutinizer05> seems flashlight is the app for you
Jul 24 20:50:24 <Earthwings_> DocScrutinizer05: ok, thanks for looking into that. I'll forward it to him and ask him to contact you with more details.
Jul 24 20:50:36 <DocScrutinizer05> Earthwings_: thanks!
Jul 24 20:51:44 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-07-24 05:51:32] <DocScrutinizer05> while stuff like new marble version upload to repo block on infra not working and nobody taking care
Jul 24 20:52:39 <DocScrutinizer05> https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-07-24.log.html#t2013-07-24T06:51:33
Jul 24 20:53:42 <df_newbie> DocScrutinizer05: no, because it too requires exclusive access to the camera it seems... but ill check the source and see how they do it; maybe its just a "weak" check or whatever
Jul 24 20:54:17 <DrCode> hi all
Jul 24 20:54:31 <DrCode> when I run easydebian , I run it has virtualbox or somthing?
Jul 24 20:56:10 <bef0rd> as a chroot DrCode
Jul 24 20:56:20 <DocScrutinizer05> right, flashlight also doesn't work with camera
Jul 24 20:57:17 <DocScrutinizer05> nicocam knows "t" key for toggling flashlight
Jul 24 20:57:27 <DocScrutinizer05> (the cssu-t camera app)
Jul 24 20:58:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and no, I guess that's not a weak check, it's a system level file-lock that doesn't allow multiple handles to the video device
Jul 24 20:59:04 <df_newbie> that app doesnt stream video though, does it?
Jul 24 20:59:17 <DocScrutinizer05> which app?
Jul 24 20:59:30 <df_newbie> and yea, the flashlight app is written in c and retrieves the flashlight context from hal or something.. ah well
Jul 24 20:59:30 <DocScrutinizer05> nicocam?
Jul 24 20:59:40 <df_newbie> yea, nico
Jul 24 20:59:49 <DocScrutinizer05> not that I knew of
Jul 24 21:00:02 <df_newbie> alright, thanks for the help
Jul 24 21:00:08 <DrCode> bef0rd, what do U mean?
Jul 24 21:00:17 <DocScrutinizer05> yw for nuttin
Jul 24 21:00:21 <DrCode> it run it like maemo?
Jul 24 21:00:41 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm, wait
Jul 24 21:00:53 <bef0rd> DrCode: yes, like another app, no emulation, no "virtualbox", search for "chroot" on the internet
Jul 24 21:00:55 <DocScrutinizer05> aah nope, sorry
Jul 24 21:01:05 <DrCode> ok
Jul 24 21:01:17 <DrCode> it can't break maemo?
Jul 24 21:01:19 <DocScrutinizer05> thought about I2C direct access, but the chip addr gets blocked by the video kernel driver
Jul 24 21:01:40 <bef0rd> DrCode:  it shouldn't, thats what a chroot is for
Jul 24 21:02:18 <DocScrutinizer05> unless you do a rm -rf on the chroot ;-P
Jul 24 21:02:52 <DocScrutinizer05> a very popular way to nuke your PC when "removing2 scratchbox
Jul 24 21:03:06 <DrCode> ok
Jul 24 21:03:13 <DrCode> thankyou
Jul 24 21:03:26 <bef0rd> DocScrutinizer05: but that's because there are some mount binds, right?
Jul 24 21:04:12 <DocScrutinizer05> when you got bindmounts of real /dev/ and/or /proc/ etc to your chroot, then deleting the chroot dir is a s real for your host system as when you did a rm -rf /dev
Jul 24 21:04:25 <DocScrutinizer05> bef0rd: right
Jul 24 21:05:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess easydeb as well has a number of bindmounts
Jul 24 21:06:54 <DocScrutinizer05> after all, you want to connect to the real X11 socket etc
Jul 24 21:07:00 <DocScrutinizer05> real audio device
Jul 24 21:07:04 <DocScrutinizer05> whatnot else
Jul 24 21:08:24 <DocScrutinizer05> heck, you probably even want the real sysfs and procfs
Jul 24 21:09:01 <bef0rd> yea, it probably has those binds too, I've never used easydebian though
Jul 24 21:09:28 <DocScrutinizer05> so your ED chroot is as separated from maemo as a process with a chaged $LD_PATH
Jul 24 21:09:51 <DocScrutinizer05> me neither
Jul 24 21:11:18 <DocScrutinizer05> in fact it *might* just bindmount the chroot on root, just overriding a few dirs like /etc /lib maybe /var
Jul 24 21:11:51 <DocScrutinizer05> one of the more arcane facilities of mount
Jul 24 21:13:28 <DocScrutinizer05> clearly listed in man 8 mount, but rarely anybody ever thougth about those options: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-mount-namespaces/index.html
Jul 24 21:13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> Applying mount namespaces
Jul 24 21:13:49 <DocScrutinizer05> Uncover practical applications for advanced Linux mounts features
Jul 24 21:14:52 <DocScrutinizer05> partially transparent  per-process filesystem namespaces
Jul 24 21:18:05 <DocScrutinizer05> since my unix knowledge is largely from last millenium, I somewhat missed out on nice details of bindmounts, cgroups, and other "modern" stuff
Jul 24 21:28:47 <DocScrutinizer05> but those IBM dudes have some pretty nice papers on stuff like this, see above link
Jul 24 21:29:13 <Sicelo> yup. agreed :)
Jul 24 21:32:30 <DocScrutinizer05> >> using FUSE, a user can mount an sshfs (secure shell) filesystem or a loopback filesystem [...] it would be completely unintuitive for such mounts to appear in only one of the user's login terminals but not the others. But with the approach in the section on per-login namespaces, that is exactly what will happen. <<
Jul 24 21:34:22 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Whereas pam_ns.so clones the mount namespace upon login, the pam_chroot.so module expects a per-user filesystem to be set up under /share/USER/root and simply uses chroot() to lock the user into his private filesystem.<<
Jul 24 21:35:34 <DocScrutinizer05> mkdir -p /share/USER/root
Jul 24 21:35:35 <DocScrutinizer05> mount --make-rshared /
Jul 24 21:35:37 <DocScrutinizer05> mount --rbind / /share/USER/root
Jul 24 21:35:38 <DocScrutinizer05> mount --make-rslave /share/USER/root
Jul 24 21:35:40 <DocScrutinizer05> mount --bind /share/USER/root/tmp/priv/USER /share/USER/root/tmp
Jul 24 22:28:19 <DocScrutinizer05> HAHAHA  bottomline of http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-unix-difflinux.html  >> All branches of UNIX and Linux have evolved and will be slightly different, but because of the maturity of the UNIX concept, the foundation doesn't change very much.<< And then came Lennart Poettering
Jul 24 22:30:07 <DocScrutinizer05> soon LINUX spells: Lennart Invents New Useless eXtensions
Jul 24 22:34:15 <jon_y> DocScrutinizer05: Lennart is trying his best to be a hipster
Jul 24 22:34:19 <jon_y> can
Jul 24 22:34:24 <jon_y> *can't
Jul 24 22:34:39 <jon_y> can't blame him if you saw his wikipedia image
Jul 24 22:35:08 <DocScrutinizer05> you think he urgently needs such ego boost?
Jul 24 22:35:16 <jon_y> probably lugs a typewriter around and drinks only starbucks coffee
Jul 24 22:36:10 <DocScrutinizer05> much much worse
Jul 24 22:36:24 <jon_y> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lennart_poettering.jpg
Jul 24 22:36:29 <jon_y> just look at him
Jul 24 22:36:33 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, already seen it
Jul 24 22:36:47 <DocScrutinizer05> it's what he likes to look like
Jul 24 22:37:47 <DocScrutinizer05> but watch his very special appearance on that 27C3 talk of another guy about pulsaudio, when Lennart hijacked the stage and made a fool of himself
Jul 24 22:39:12 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Poettering has advocated speeding up Linux development at the expense of breaking compatibility with BSD. "I don't think BSD is really too relevant anymore", he replied in an interview<< (from wikipedia)
Jul 24 22:39:33 <jon_y> ouch
Jul 24 22:39:59 <DocScrutinizer05> this XXXXX doesn't grok that what linux needs is stabilization, not development speedup
Jul 24 22:41:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and he deliberately distinguishes between linux and all other unix flavors, pushing actively towards not only ditching compatibility or convergence with BSD but also with every other mature UNIX heriatge
Jul 24 22:41:47 <jon_y> hipster alright
Jul 24 22:42:10 <DocScrutinizer05> and as well driving linux away from "works on microwave and fridge as well as on cray"
Jul 24 22:42:21 <DocScrutinizer05> towards a OS for ISA PCs only
Jul 24 22:42:27 <jon_y> new for the sake of new, dropping anything that is considered "old"
Jul 24 23:00:31 <DocScrutinizer05> see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0
Jul 24 23:00:38 <DocScrutinizer05> (Poettering)
Jul 24 23:01:46 <DocScrutinizer05> jon_y: NAH, e.g PA needs to exist pre-boot to allow BIOS adjustment for the blind 
Jul 24 23:02:19 <DocScrutinizer05> that's NOT for sake of "new", that's a MUST, or do you hate blind persons?
Jul 24 23:02:54 <DocScrutinizer05> now you're briefed for discussions with Poettering ;-P
Jul 24 23:04:29 <DocScrutinizer05> also localization needs to be pre-boot, or otherwise the blind can't select their native language in BIOS menus
Jul 24 23:05:10 <DocScrutinizer05> and of course all this needs to be network-enabled so the blind can ajust their BIOS settings of their PC from a remote machine
Jul 24 23:37:28 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0&t=3284
Jul 25 00:52:25 <win7mac> gn o/
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 25 02:59:58 2013