**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 02 02:59:59 2013 Aug 02 04:42:59 slider magnet pictures.. pls Aug 02 04:58:36 SAiF, http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=v6tbvp&s=7 from: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=64949 Aug 02 05:00:05 When I searched for "magnet; N900" there were some pointers that you might be able to use a replacement magnet from underneath where the kickstand is. Aug 02 05:07:17 yes, I reflashed and still problem persists. I tried sliding an external magnet from Q to P and it worked? Aug 02 05:08:24 I guess there is another magnet on the other half also.. Aug 02 05:09:01 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=64949 Aug 02 05:09:26 just now I saw that you already posted that link.. lol Aug 02 05:11:26 I guess one of them is missing... Aug 02 05:11:44 If it worked, then your dmesg output should show slide (GPIO 71) is now {open, closed} Aug 02 05:12:42 The latter link (which is the same as you've just pasted), shows that there's a magnet and a sensor. Not exactly two magnets from those area, there is however another magnet underneath where the kickstand is. Aug 02 05:12:48 i need root right? Aug 02 05:13:01 "dmesg" command doesn't need root iirc. Aug 02 05:14:51 Also, thinking about the issue, if you put a magnet (doesn't necessarily require to be nokia accessory) near where the sensor is and if it works and you see "dmesg" showing slide is now open or closed. Its a good sign that the sensor is not working albeit the magnet maybe missing. Aug 02 05:15:18 s/not working// Aug 02 05:15:18 psycho_oreos meant: Also, thinking about the issue, if you put a magnet (doesn't necessarily require to be nokia accessory) near where the sensor is and if it works and you see "dmesg" showing slide is now open or closed. Its a good sign that the sensor is albeit the magnet... Aug 02 05:15:31 s/not// Aug 02 05:15:32 psycho_oreos meant: Also, thinking about the issue, if you put a magnet (doesn't necessarily require to be nokia accessory) near where the sensor is and if it works and you see "dmesg" showing slide is now open or closed. Its a good sign that the sensor is working albeit th... Aug 02 05:15:50 ffs PEBKAC. Aug 02 05:16:05 ~botsnack Aug 02 05:16:05 psycho_oreos: aw, gee Aug 02 05:17:08 I.e. the issue is not the sensor not functioning, the sensor is doing its job. If anything its the magnet that is either missing or something else to do with the magnet itself. Aug 02 05:17:48 which one is the magnet, the one in front panel or the one inside? Aug 02 05:18:46 There was a youtube video that I saw (whilst searching before) of a guy using a regular magnet and held it near the screen. The screen lit up whenever the guy moved the magnet down and screen shut off when he did the opposite (i.e. moved up). Aug 02 05:19:24 According to the photos that I mentioned before, the one inside (might be underneath the screen near its "cover" area). Aug 02 05:20:52 Its not in the front panel (where the keyboard is). If you look at the photos closely you will see its beneath where the screen is, there is a guard surrounding the screen and there's a little silver piece of metal which the author of that photo indicated as the magnet). Aug 02 05:21:53 Guard or frame, whatever you may wish to call it. I'm guessing the technician didn't realise there was a magnet when you had to get your digitizer serviced/replaced. Aug 02 05:22:39 in office.. Aug 02 05:23:07 What do you mean? Aug 02 06:45:40 Some really interesting stuff on tmo that probably isn't well documented on wmo. I recall reading about people mirroring wmo, who knows if they realised there's plenty more useful information on wmo. I was just reading stuff about broken USB ports on N900 and there's another workaround instead of having to try and resolder the original microUSB back in its place. Inevitably the methods mentioned aren't probably within average user's reach. Aug 02 06:49:53 ~usbfix Aug 02 06:49:53 extra, extra, read all about it, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) Aug 02 06:51:04 hi all Aug 02 06:51:06 I can use mkfs.vfat to sdcard and then use it in maemo? Aug 02 06:51:08 what format type dose maemo uses in sdcard? Aug 02 07:00:50 Hmm looks like I got beat lol *sigh*. Aug 02 07:25:42 1) cat /proc/filesystems 2) Format the microSD using File Manager and find out via mount what it uses. Alternatively, asking the right questions on forum search will yield you the result you were after, a bit of common sense would be desirable. Aug 02 09:26:30 reading news like e.g. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/01/hacker-sim-card-flaws-leave-hundreds-of-millions-of-phones-vulnerable-to-attack/ ... is there a way to query from the N900 what encryption the sim card uses? Aug 02 09:26:41 also... what? sim cards have java programs running on them? Aug 02 09:31:37 yup Aug 02 09:31:49 mini jvm inside Aug 02 09:32:38 also, bluray menu is in java, I think Aug 02 09:38:13 so is there anything to play around with the simcard, query info of it, maybe run stuff on it.... whatever? Aug 02 09:47:45 I think those are proprietary Nokia stuff Aug 02 09:47:57 no direct access to sim from usermode Aug 02 09:48:44 pity Aug 02 09:59:55 n900 is a linux computer, but its a linux computer born in the decrepit world of mobile communications Aug 02 10:37:59 phsyco_oreos: sorry to leave in a hurry, I was in office, anyway. I talked to the technician and he told me that he might have missed the magnet, Any way he will take a look at it on monday. Aug 02 10:38:57 and is there any command where I can check whether the halfpress of camera key is working or not? Aug 02 10:47:24 'dmesg' will have cam_focus in it Aug 02 10:47:35 (press half, type dmesg enter) Aug 02 11:10:01 thanks Aug 02 11:25:17 something unrelated I wonder about... when connecting to eduroam, does the phone check the validity of the server against the present certificates ... and is there a simple way for me to check if it happens (only thing I can think of is removing all certificates, see if it still connects... even then... could have some certificate I don't see) Aug 02 13:40:43 guess nobody has an idea Aug 02 13:42:24 Lava_Croft: the n900 is a linux computer that has a proprietary hw phone module Aug 02 13:49:44 among a host of other proprietary software Aug 02 14:04:13 have a good weekend Aug 02 14:33:09 How german sounds compared to other languages! lol, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7nl0splPg Aug 02 14:48:51 what are the pressure-sensitive drawing apps (and possibly other high-quality painting-related apps) for OS2008 and Maemo 5? i know of MyPaint (which only appears to have 0.5.1 available for OS2008, which doesn't work very well) and Xournal Aug 02 14:53:55 we have pressure sensors? :O Aug 02 14:55:20 kerio, not as in barometric pressure, as in stylus pressure ;) Aug 02 14:55:24 i know Aug 02 14:55:36 i didn't know the n900 digitizer could do that Aug 02 14:56:02 yeah it can, it's not a dramatic effect (i.e. not a huge range of pressures) but it's there Aug 02 14:56:37 i have a friend who's good at drawing with graphics tablets, and i thought i could recommend he get a cheap N810, which to me - given appropriate software - seems quite suited to drawing Aug 02 15:08:01 also - any clue why my FM transmitter refuses to work? i'm running CSSU testing, standard kernel (or whatever kernel comes with CSSU... i need to ask about the kernel later), have tried this fmtx-faker and fm-boost, but i just hear nothing at all on my radio even if i keep the phone touching the radio's antenna Aug 02 15:08:15 can it be something about location? Aug 02 15:10:24 i also see there is a new fmtx-middleware in CSSU-Devel Aug 02 15:14:07 sledgeSim, all: http://goput.it/u7n.jpg Aug 02 15:14:48 whoops, wrong channel Aug 02 15:28:22 Iridos, The only way I can imagine a hacker can do that (SIM card hack) is most likely through GSM level. Its unlikely the hacker will send the information through other ways, even more if the radio for that function is disabled/patched its highly unlikely without the hacker breaking the device first. N900 has a couple of entry points: GSM, WLAN, Bluetooth, FM Transmitter, and IR. Both IR and Bluetooth are virtually impossible without user's explic Aug 02 15:28:22 it consent. FM transmitter? unlikely unless they found a bug within fmtxd for instance. WLAN? that's if you don't have firewall properly defined (besides they need to get into your device in the first place, via maybe vulnerable daemons). This only leaves GSM which I'm guessing most telcos would be looking at ways of patching it. Aug 02 15:31:03 There was a MITM hack with 3G->2G and eavesdropping on vulnerable "clients" that was available at I think BlackHat conference. The rumoured equipment at the time was estimated around $1000, though these days it would be far cheaper I suppose to make one. In the very least scenario, its unlikely script kiddies will use it to abuse people. Unless you pissed some real blackhat's off you probably would be in safer shoes than someone who likes to dice t Aug 02 15:31:04 heir reputation around. Aug 02 15:36:55 LjL, that fmtx-middleware was an imported package from what jacekowski did with fmtxd (which was to enable more functionality compared to the standard fmtxd). Aug 02 15:39:38 N900 is probably one of the closest hardware you can get to tinker with its bones. There's no other device/phone that would come close apart from maybe openmoko. Aug 02 15:45:17 LjL: the range is pretty damn awful for the fmtx Aug 02 15:45:28 try jacekowski's modified fmtxd Aug 02 15:46:58 You could even broadcast in other radio frequencies in which the original fmtxd doesn't even offer. Albeit using modified fmtxd doesn't really give too much benefit when it comes to range. Aug 02 15:54:32 psycho_oreos: ok so if i wanted to try jacekowski's fmtxd, using the cssu-devel fmtx-middleware package would be a reasonably good way to achieve taht? Aug 02 15:55:36 kerio: after fiddling anyway, it actually does work, but i *really* have to press the phone against the radio's antenna. otherwise, no dice. FM is *very* crowded here, that's probably the reason i guess Aug 02 15:55:55 yeah ._. Aug 02 15:56:06 LjL: that's jacekowski's fmtxd, indeed Aug 02 15:58:15 LjL, I'd advise against playing with stuff in CSSU-Devel if you're not really familiar when it comes to more difficult situations in troubleshooting. You can simply for now rename the original fmtxd to a backup and just grab the patched fmtxd and put it in the same location as where the now renamed (original) fmtxd resides. Aug 02 15:58:56 There are fair few other "channels" you can try/use, in a bid to avoid crowded spaces. Aug 02 15:59:35 amin007110, ja und? ^^ *j/k* Aug 02 16:00:27 if you have just over 3hours of spare time: Aug 02 16:00:28 1800 Lava_Croft(+i) 3:FreeNode/#maemo(+Cfnt) Aug 02 16:00:29 1800 Lava_Croft(+i) 3:FreeNode/#maemo(+Cfnt) Aug 02 16:00:30 er Aug 02 16:00:38 That was a nice fail, i mean: http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/b/439369577 Aug 02 16:00:40 psycho_oreos: i wouldn't want to run afoul of too many regulations though... but i've no idea how much that could be a practical problem Aug 02 16:01:00 skip the first 10 orso minutes to watch Carmack talk about shit for 3h Aug 02 16:01:00 LjL: disregard regulations, acquire music Aug 02 16:01:21 psycho_oreos: anyway, re cssu-devel, unless we're talking hardware damage (or bricking), i can play with stuff on this N900... it's not my main phone, at least so far, i just bought it to tinker with Aug 02 16:01:37 I've documented awhile ago on wmo where the FM antenna sits on N900. If you are up for some hardware hacking, you can play nasty and set yourself up a very nice FM transmitter (well.. at least in theory). Aug 02 16:01:45 i have a backupmenu backup of an ok state anyway Aug 02 16:02:27 i don't think i'll go that far - if i can just, say, use the fmtx with the headphones inserted, i get a feeling that already will give it a boost :P Aug 02 16:02:37 LjL, in theory you wouldn't with the standard antenna, though wiring to aftermarket one may :D Aug 02 16:02:46 LjL: yup Aug 02 16:02:50 also, use openmediaplayer Aug 02 16:03:09 iirc it was also a factor Aug 02 16:03:25 ah Aug 02 16:03:26 the stock media player does something to the radio if you have things plugged in Aug 02 16:03:31 "Override FMTX checks in UI" Aug 02 16:03:33 this looks interesting :P Aug 02 16:04:23 LjL, you know... I recall sometime awhile ago it was said that extras-devel (yes its not completely related) gave warnings that it would cause the device to do undesirable effects. Apart from bricking it may affect other things. Besides, do you really want to "debian-ise" your setups? Aug 02 16:05:08 It prevents FM transmitter from running if you have headphones plugged in, that's with osso-mediaplayer. It doesn't do that (or at least how I've read) with open media player. Aug 02 16:05:38 extras-devel and community-devel have absolutely no relation whatsoever Aug 02 16:05:52 psycho_oreos: what do you mean "debian-ise" my setup? Aug 02 16:06:03 using certain .debs from community-devel is safe Aug 02 16:06:13 i probably do like i have my setup remind of Debian =) Aug 02 16:06:15 enabling the whole repo... not so much Aug 02 16:06:19 right Aug 02 16:06:26 i'm not keeping cssu-devel enabled as a whole, that's for sure Aug 02 16:06:29 i just pick and choose Aug 02 16:06:46 No, I was merely referring to how extras-devel constantly scared newbies off and how others have tried to stick various warning signs all over it. Thinking of CSSU-Devel sort of reminds me of exactly that :p Aug 02 16:07:03 the naming isnt exactly PR friendly Aug 02 16:07:09 well extras-devel seems to have most of the good stuff these days :P Aug 02 16:07:50 LjL, i.e. do you must do things via apt-get, dpkg, etc? I mean you could pretty much do it by hand and make a note later on. Aug 02 16:08:12 extras-devel was pretty back then :p Aug 02 16:08:26 s/y/y creepy/ Aug 02 16:08:26 psycho_oreos meant: extras-devel was pretty creepy back then :p Aug 02 16:08:59 psycho_oreos, being grown on Debian/Ubuntu, i tend to prefer using packages whenever possible - doing things by hand, one tends to forget what has been changed, and then it conflicts with packages Aug 02 16:09:15 wtf Aug 02 16:09:19 People didn't know what they were doing and thought apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade whilst having extras-devel on would give them bleeding-edge stuff. Turns out in most cases it was quite the opposite. Aug 02 16:10:13 i'm mostly using FAM currently and never dist-upgrading, only upgrading single packages when i feel like Aug 02 16:10:52 LjL, *shrugs* up to you. I don't know how well fmtxd-middleware is packaged, if say the p{re,ost}rm scripts don't properly "undo" once you decide to revert back.. well :) you can end up being SOL. Aug 02 16:11:51 Yeah I use FAM when I want to pull stuff from devel/testing repos. HAM for virtually everything else (heck CSSU is recommended to use with HAM not FAM). Aug 02 16:12:22 hmm i could do that Aug 02 16:12:22 i find that a smart rule is that if anything has any serious dependencies, just use ham Aug 02 16:12:29 since HAM and FAM use different repositories list Aug 02 16:12:38 which means that most simple stuff is fine for fapman, but more complex stuff really isnt Aug 02 16:12:54 Lava_Croft: doesn't fam just use apt-get though? Aug 02 16:12:56 and FAM is supposedly more notorious in its package management than HAM. Aug 02 16:13:10 ~fapman Aug 02 16:13:10 i guess fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. Aug 02 16:13:11 there are known cases of fapman screwing up Aug 02 16:13:21 haha what the fuck, who pushed debianutils to extras-devel? Aug 02 16:14:20 it wants to uninstall *everything* Aug 02 16:15:32 There was a similar package like that, I can't quite remember the name of the package but it replaces stuff that conflicts with mostly busybox and replaces it with proper coreutils-gnu stuff. Aug 02 16:16:40 ok next question, kernel: i wouldn't mind a small amount of overclocking/undervolting, so, i guess i want the "power kernel" or whatever it's called. but i see there are two ways to get it: 1) flash it and replace the old kernel 2) get "multiboot" or "U-Boot" (i believe they're the same thing?) and chainload it. also, i'm running CSSU Testing and i'd eventually like to try dual-booting with Nemo, which, i was reading, requires some specific version of U-Boot or Aug 02 16:16:42 something... so, what's a safe/sane route? Aug 02 16:17:34 multiboot is awful Aug 02 16:17:44 don't use it Aug 02 16:17:48 multiboot flashes on every boot Aug 02 16:17:49 uboot is awesome Aug 02 16:17:57 1) is the safe/sane route but ideally 2) if you want dual/multibooting (no not multiboot as in multiboot package). Aug 02 16:18:07 ~multiboot Aug 02 16:18:07 multiboot is probably http://maemo.org/packages/view/multiboot/ Aug 02 16:19:00 multiboot the package will flash every boot Aug 02 16:19:02 Hmm.. a fair few people including DocScrutinizer51 and Pali I believe were heavily against the use of multiboot :P Aug 02 16:19:03 uboot is saner Aug 02 16:19:36 uboot does chainload too, but doesn't flash on every boot Aug 02 16:19:44 ~uboot Aug 02 16:19:44 N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files Aug 02 16:19:45 oh lord, the confusion. so there is: a "bootmenu", which is the original thing; a "multiboot", which is probably not a good idea; a "U-Boot", which is the one to pick; and i also have a "backupmenu" installed, does that conflict with anything? Aug 02 16:20:18 ~backupmenu Aug 02 16:20:18 somebody said backupmenu was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Aug 02 16:20:25 bootmenu is unrelated Aug 02 16:20:28 psycho_oreos: ah, so that seems sane, because even if i end up removing some important kernel packages, /dev/mtd3 will always contain a sane environment Aug 02 16:20:28 bootmenu isn't the exact original thing. bootmenu was created for something else in mind. The default bootloader are mainly NOLO and XLoader. Aug 02 16:20:45 it's something that runs after the kernel has been loaded Aug 02 16:21:12 LjL: if you have cssu-thumb, the standard uboot won't help with booting Aug 02 16:21:43 kerio: no i'm not using thumb Aug 02 16:21:56 why aren't you using cssu-thumb? :( Aug 02 16:22:06 I believe the latest kernel power does not have premade stuff for multiboot. Pali made a note specifically about that, and he promotes uboot. Aug 02 16:22:07 it's really good! Aug 02 16:22:34 kerio: should i? it was listed on the wiki as something a bit arcane, felt a bit like cssu-devel Aug 02 16:22:57 Latest kernel power as in kp52. It was in extras-devel but either way Pali has a copy of kp52 on his own repo/scratchbox. Aug 02 16:23:21 kerio: besides, if i want to use thumb, then i have to use yet another kernel, right? Aug 02 16:23:52 LjL, that's more or less the same diff as getting power kernel imo :) Aug 02 16:24:35 PSA: cssu-devel is **NOT A THING** Aug 02 16:25:01 yeah i guess so, just need to understand *which* kernel is the one i need :P but also, thumb has its own repo, and it's a different arch, is that just dandy and alright to use together with cssu-testing and packages from cssu-devel and whatnot? Aug 02 16:25:27 LjL: cssu-thumb is an overlay on top of cssu-testing Aug 02 16:25:50 kerio: is it basically a collection of packages recompiled for thumb2 replacing the cssu-testing ones? Aug 02 16:25:55 yup Aug 02 16:26:02 or stock nokia ones Aug 02 16:26:31 kerio: how do the version number works? i.e. do they replace the original stuff by means of having higher version numbers (but then that might conflict with cssu-devel or other repos?), or by specifying an arch, or what? Aug 02 16:26:56 I believe they have tags on the filenames. Aug 02 16:27:33 CSSU updates have cssu[1-5] thumbs otoh has thumb2 appended to the name iinm. Aug 02 16:27:39 also is there a kernel with *both* the thumb patches and the latest "kernel power" stuff? Aug 02 16:27:41 psycho_oreos: ah Aug 02 16:28:27 The last I checked/heard/read, thumb2 is still on kp51. Latest kp is kp52. Aug 02 16:28:28 oh wow i see now cssu-devel *also* has its own kernel Aug 02 16:28:38 psycho_oreos: i guess that's not too tragic Aug 02 16:28:52 LjL, how do you mean? Aug 02 16:29:18 psycho_oreos: i mean, being on kp51 instead of kp52 probably doesn't make much difference - but i'm having a look at the changelogs now Aug 02 16:30:12 LjL: the thumb errata workaround is in kernel-power since 50, iirc Aug 02 16:30:14 or maybe 51 Aug 02 16:30:35 kernel-cssu is a rebranding of kernel-power that doesn't have the uninstall script Aug 02 16:31:08 version numbers in cssu-thumb are kept barely above the cssu-testing ones Aug 02 16:31:29 so that there's something to do for emergency updates, for instance Aug 02 16:31:45 ah so i can just use kernel-power with the thumb repo? Aug 02 16:31:49 yup Aug 02 16:32:03 if you are, it won't even prompt to install kernel-cssu Aug 02 16:32:30 51r1 I think it was for latest CSSU-Thumb. Aug 02 16:32:47 no, the first Aug 02 16:33:03 kp51 thumb? Aug 02 16:33:13 ...what? Aug 02 16:33:46 * psycho_oreos is confused with thumb2's kernel naming conventions. Regular new kp versions just increments the number. Aug 02 16:35:47 kerio: [16:21:12] LjL: if you have cssu-thumb, the standard uboot won't help with booting <---- is this because it will boot a kernel without the thumb2 patches, but the system binaries require it? isn't there an U-Boot that comes with a thumb-capable "emergency" kernel? Aug 02 16:37:34 no Aug 02 16:37:41 you can make one if you want Aug 02 16:37:56 with "u-boot-for-power-kernel"? i just noticed this package Aug 02 16:38:05 old and unsupported Aug 02 16:38:10 oh Aug 02 16:38:15 anyway, it's not really a big deal Aug 02 16:38:28 i don't even have a kernel attached to my uboot Aug 02 16:39:02 but then what happens if i mess something up? brick? - also, since apparently backupmenu doesn't work too nicely with U-Boot without modifications... then can't i even un-brick by restoring my backup? Aug 02 16:39:35 I generally don't think you can easily un-brick via using backupmenu. Aug 02 16:39:36 ...backupmenu is also unrelated to uboot Aug 02 16:39:45 backupmenu is launched by bootmenu Aug 02 16:40:04 which runs *after* the kernel has been loaded, uboot is long forgotten at that point Aug 02 16:40:15 ah, right Aug 02 16:40:41 bear with me - there are many layers about this and they're confusing Aug 02 16:41:39 in any case, if i want to be a bit safer from bricking, and i want to use thumb, then i should probably make an uboot + thumb-kernel thing, so is the logic here wrong? Aug 02 16:44:07 eeeeh Aug 02 16:44:17 just don't fuck your mydocs up Aug 02 16:44:35 what, how is mydocs related now D: Aug 02 16:47:14 To me.. I personally think its safer to deal with one step at a time.. first install uboot and make sure that its pointing to your power kernel first. Then deal with kp with thumb2 later on after you have successfully managed to get uboot to boot with kp. Aug 02 16:48:24 psycho_oreos: sure, but, unless i got the whole thing wrong, uboot can 1) boot the kernel it's flashed with 2) boot another kernel that has a menu entry installed for it. - now, #1 will always be available even if i do something stupid like uninstalling the package that gives me #2 Aug 02 16:48:37 is that right? Aug 02 16:49:24 LjL, from memory the uboot package doesn't include any kernel, you should read relevant wiki/talk threads about it either way. Aug 02 16:52:58 LjL, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 ... also that link tells you what it does to MyDocs. Aug 02 16:53:09 yeah it's not always easy to know which page should be the one to read though :D i'm checking out http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 and the very brief https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:N900_The_Perfect_Setup#Install_.26_configure_bootloader at the moment Aug 02 16:53:21 ah so i did have at least one right Aug 02 16:54:10 so if mydocs becomes unmountable, u-boot won't boot anything anymore? Aug 02 16:56:04 I believe so (I don't have uboot setup here). Aug 02 16:57:42 Hmm it seems the flasher package of uboot contains stock kernel. So in theory after installing uboot and getting it all setup, upon reboot it should boot up stock kernel by default. Aug 02 17:04:46 hold on a second... so, bootmenu starts up after the kernel has loaded... but still, it says it is "intended to use to boot alternative operating systems", so can't it just chainload another kernel itself (using kexec or something, i don't know how bootmenu works) Aug 02 17:15:01 The phrases used was probably outdated, the package is really old in itself. Aug 02 17:16:33 I guess the intention then was to boot into different X frontend environments. Probably things such as Mer, it probably wasn't intended to boot other kernels as it probably lacks that functionality (heavily depends on NOLO X-Loader in other words). Aug 02 17:16:46 ah Aug 02 17:17:34 about to do it - does this look right? it's going to install: u-boot-tools 2013.04-1, fiasco-image-update-ask 0.3, u-boot-flasher 2013.04-1, kernel-power 1:2.6.28-10power52 (most of these are from extras devel, should i use the extras testing versions instead?) Aug 02 17:39:15 u-boot and pk installed Aug 02 18:12:31 would i be wise to use smartreflex? i see it's enabled in the "default" profile of kernel-power-settings, but disabled in the "ideal" profile Aug 02 18:13:43 it "should" work Aug 02 18:13:49 freemangordon can elaborate a bit more on it Aug 02 21:33:29 hmpf, lack of AP mode (and thus WPA as hotspot) is annoying. i'm so not comfortable with using WEP, yet i will need to provide computers with network access in the coming weeks Aug 02 21:36:39 I was using my eeePC as an access point once using BT/USB to the phone... since ath5k wifi supported AP mode... Aug 02 22:36:27 Android dropping ad-hoc makes it especially annoying Aug 02 23:26:08 SpeedEvil: ugh, they don't allow connecting to ad-hoc nets now? how heinous :\ Aug 02 23:29:04 Exactly. Aug 02 23:56:59 SpeedEvil: maybe it's just me being a conspiracy theorist, but aside from the obvious no-AP-so-you-can't-do-tethering thing in many phones, there is a fear from manufacturers that ad-hoc could allow mesh networks that could bypass the carrier Aug 02 23:57:14 That's rubbish. Aug 02 23:57:33 It's basically impossible - mesh networks have fundamental flaws that mean wifi can never, ever do that. Aug 02 23:58:18 SpeedEvil: can you explain in simple terms why? Aug 02 23:58:23 The probable reason was that there were lots of people complaining about bugs in ad-hoc mode that were in fact fundamental flaws. Aug 02 23:58:34 ah Aug 02 23:58:57 In the protocl - namely there isn't a way of detecting when the network goes away and it drinks power as it has to keep the raido on all the time - versus a hundred of the time for AP mode. Aug 02 23:59:33 In simple terms - because you can't detect signals that are at a moderate distance, but they add significantly to your noise background. Aug 02 23:59:42 Consider a football stadium. Aug 03 00:00:02 If everyone is absolutely silent - you can speak to your friend 10m away without raising your voice. Aug 03 00:00:42 Similarly - if there is some coordination system so only one person talks at once - anyone can speak to anyone 10m away Aug 03 00:00:54 This is - broadly - how cellphones work. Aug 03 00:01:10 T/CMDA, yeah Aug 03 00:01:28 The problem with wifi is there isn't a central coordinating authority. Once traffic raises over a very, very small level, suddenly you can only hear the person 5m away Aug 03 00:01:51 But then when that happens in order to transmit a message a long distance - suddenly it needs to take twice as many hops. Aug 03 00:02:11 Oops - suddenly traffic just doubled effectively - meaning you can now only hear the person 2m away Aug 03 00:02:12 ... Aug 03 00:02:32 gotcha Aug 03 00:02:42 Once you get over a _very_ small traffic utilisation - things catastrophically fail. Aug 03 00:04:26 SpeedEvil: couldn't one possibly devise a network in which, initially, everybody is ad-hoc in order to handshake, but that's done with as little traffic as possible, and then a node is "elected" to act as AP (it would need to, of course, support AP mode), and from that on, that little clique in the network uses the AP to arbitrate (until it goes away, then another handshake needs to be made)? Aug 03 00:05:55 In principle - yes. Aug 03 00:06:03 The problem is fairness. Aug 03 00:06:13 It's always in your interests to cheat. Aug 03 00:07:00 SpeedEvil: AP mode is implemented in pretty much all Android devices now, though Aug 03 00:07:08 The other problem is that if you need 100 hops to get to your target - then the maximum bandwidth is obviously at the very most 1% Aug 03 00:07:27 (as contention kicks in) Aug 03 00:13:07 does anyone still use Ad-hoc mode nowadays? Aug 03 00:13:34 WiFi Direct or running a server over AP mode is the hot new thing. Aug 03 00:14:47 I would if stupid Android didn't prevent me Aug 03 00:15:56 people are only interested in adhoc because m-h-s and the n900 driver only supports adhoc? :\ Aug 03 00:16:44 ecc2g, correction, the N900 firmware only supports adhoc Aug 03 00:17:16 the driver in mac80211 already supports AP mode. we just need the wl1251 firmware for AP mode (which is under NDA) Aug 03 00:17:51 still, that's the only reason why anyone is remotely interested in adhoc... Aug 03 00:18:16 I don't get why android did away with adhoc, it should be in the 802.11 standard... Aug 03 00:18:42 Google's "forcefully obsoleting" adhoc. Aug 03 00:21:49 can someone build a package for me please? Aug 03 00:22:20 anyone run a USB wifi stick that supports AP mode? :D Aug 03 00:23:21 seems like everybody is sleeping ecc2g Aug 03 00:24:24 ecc2g: It uses lots of battery life, confuses people by showing networks as available when they're not, and has setup issues. Aug 03 00:24:51 And no security at all Aug 03 00:25:51 SpeedEvil, can you make a package for me? Aug 03 00:26:04 "it confuses people" <- only valid point, others are not an issue because that's what "adhoc" is for - to make an adhoc network... Aug 03 00:26:51 ecc2g: Oh - I agree. Aug 03 00:26:54 HtheB: No. Aug 03 00:27:05 * SpeedEvil is not really awake at the moment. Aug 03 00:27:19 And I haven't ever actually made a package. Aug 03 00:27:28 :D Aug 03 00:27:39 damn, I had a package request too... Aug 03 00:27:41 heh Aug 03 00:27:58 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90909 Aug 03 00:28:01 it's for this one Aug 03 00:28:24 what I'd like to know is how the autobuilder works and how I can emulate that on the SDK Aug 03 00:29:47 I still want to hack #@$% pidgin to save a bit of power... Aug 03 00:30:28 ecc2g: the autobuilder simply runs the debian packaging scripts. Aug 03 00:30:43 I don't know debian packaging... :\ Aug 03 00:31:15 actually might be able to push this request upstream...it probably could help out more than just maemo... Aug 03 00:32:58 just that if nobody's doing the maemo package anymore, I still wont get it updated :D Aug 03 02:11:27 hi all Aug 03 02:11:39 how can I import opml to feedingit? Aug 03 02:50:16 anyone still alive? Aug 03 02:54:42 sup **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 03 03:00:00 2013