**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 04 02:59:58 2013 Aug 04 03:01:19 * psycho_oreos looks at the various N900's USB Fix/mod threads and contemplates of "wiki-it" up. Aug 04 03:51:43 hi all Aug 04 03:51:56 how can I build an easydebian image? Aug 04 03:59:33 DrCode: debootstrap Aug 04 04:11:21 hi Hurrian Aug 04 04:11:30 thank you Aug 04 04:11:31 As far as I remember, I have tried that onece and failed when it came to Pulseaudio fixing. Aug 04 04:11:49 can I run easydebian image in qemu or virtualbox? Aug 04 04:11:51 deafboy: you need to downgrade Pulse inside Debian Aug 04 04:12:06 to do my testing Aug 04 04:12:17 DrCode: no, you'll need to put the ED image inside a virtual hard drive image Aug 04 04:12:30 the ED image is an ext4 partition file Aug 04 04:13:51 debootstrap build image Aug 04 04:14:47 is there guide how to port debootstrap to easydebian? Aug 04 06:17:04 hi has any one has any experince on extkbd? Aug 04 06:45:42 What sort of external keyboard? Aug 04 07:36:34 jean_brat: used it successfully with a bt keyboard Aug 04 07:42:44 Anyone in here who knows a bit or two about firewalls and rootkit protection for Meego harmattan 1.3 & maemo5? (inception & ssh active on n9, ssh on n900) Aug 04 07:58:55 rootkit *protection*? Aug 04 07:59:01 dafuq Aug 04 08:05:29 lol Aug 04 08:22:15 arvut, there is a package called genwall for generating iptables script for N900. Pretty nifty, and with some hacks you can have it enabled on every boot (without having to run genwall script). I'm not sure on n9. There's also a package (not sure if available on n9{00} known as fail2ban, which eliminates any attacks on sshd itself. Aug 04 08:24:21 Rather virtually any attacks on sshd itself. Aug 04 08:25:29 Password-less setup (and using only SSH keys to identify legitimate connection) would definitely be one step above password based logins for sshd. Aug 04 08:31:25 I also just noticed something... the old saying goes, "Never surf the net as root". *points at arvut's general direction* Aug 04 08:49:56 the n900 has no security whatsoever Aug 04 08:52:13 Though that doesn't mean you can't try to make it secure. You do have a choice, but it all depends on how willing you are. Aug 04 08:53:26 Besides, its somewhat rare for script kiddies to target maemo/meego platform, its a niche market and for their effort in attacking it would yield them little gain apart from being specialised to that area. Aug 04 08:53:29 there's no /etc/shadow, and passwords are saved in /etc/passwd using the old-style crypt() Aug 04 08:53:37 and they're limited to 8 characters Aug 04 08:55:53 WiFi passwords are stored in gconf, lock code is limited to 5 numbers and can be easily broken, yadda yadda yadda. Aug 04 09:00:33 wifi passwords have to be stored in cleartext Aug 04 09:02:17 Ironically because of the fact that the dependent program isn't able to read encrypted form. Aug 04 09:11:49 no, because you need the cleartext Aug 04 09:12:40 For? Aug 04 09:15:25 to connect to a protected wifi network Aug 04 09:17:38 Sure, that's as effective as writing out passwords in plaintext and sticking it on the device. Aug 04 09:17:40 :) Aug 04 09:18:16 "Here, have my password, its: XYZ". Aug 04 09:22:19 Old ADSL d-link modem or modem/routers used to store ADSL username and password in plaintext as a file. When someone manages to break the login credentials, they can read that. It sure was effective, until d-link realised they've made a bad mistake. Aug 04 09:23:18 Actually no, not even, it was easily enumerated through its web config as well. Aug 04 09:23:40 View HTML source and voila. Aug 04 09:28:04 I'm sure the end user itself didn't need to know their passwords were stored in plaintext, they already paid for whatever it was. Yet to the script kiddies it was nothing more than grabbing the "lowest hanging fruit". Aug 04 09:31:19 Maemo 4 and its predecessors stored lock code in plaintext. Had it not been pointed out as a security flaw, Maemo 5 would have suffered the same fate. Aug 04 09:32:14 well, the current way of doing an unix crypt on it isnt all that much better :D Aug 04 09:32:42 Yet ironically Maemo 5's lock code was nothing more than 5 characters comprising of only numbers which is still susceptible to attacks. The only thing delaying it were its crypt format, but only just. Aug 04 09:33:25 Not sure on Unix, on GNU/Linux the bulk of it can be prevented through its own ways and means. Aug 04 09:46:35 hi i need help with battery drain at standby.. Aug 04 09:47:55 whaaat?!?! qwerty123 O.o Aug 04 09:48:15 qwerty123: any output from powertop? Aug 04 09:48:45 yep. i have the output from powertop. it is c0 -> 98.4 % and c4-> 0 % Aug 04 09:48:59 it is still persistent after flashing Aug 04 09:49:15 and i had followe all the rules stated in the thread Aug 04 09:49:18 hmm, not good. which process is waking up the CPU? Aug 04 09:49:31 Do you have autodisconnect installed? Aug 04 09:49:42 just flashed Aug 04 09:49:51 nothing installed apart from fapman Aug 04 09:50:03 and rootsh n powero\top obv. Aug 04 09:50:24 qwerty123: could yo pastebin the powertop output? Aug 04 09:50:29 *you Aug 04 09:50:58 and with out sim and memorycard it had 313 wake ups, but c0 was still the same. Aug 04 09:51:14 yep sure, just a lil later.. currently updating vcatalogues Aug 04 09:51:31 Aug 04 09:59:01 qwerty123: BTW pastebin dmesg output too, along with powertop output Aug 04 09:59:39 yeah downloading pastebinit at 2g speed.. suks!! Aug 04 09:59:58 I can imagine :) Aug 04 10:01:03 btw, with 313 wakeups and 100% cpu at 250 mhz, whats keeping the cpu at c0 state?? Aug 04 10:01:17 any guesses?? Aug 04 10:01:28 NFC, that is why I want powertop output :) Aug 04 10:07:16 http://pastebin.com//KxEjbDqa Aug 04 10:08:06 powertop dere!! Aug 04 10:08:08 That's one of two required info. Aug 04 10:08:23 yep second on its way Aug 04 10:09:19 pstebin.com/RiSsNhTw Aug 04 10:09:42 http://pastebin.com/RiSsNhTw Aug 04 10:10:20 now that was the dmesg Aug 04 10:10:46 that the second one.. Aug 04 10:10:51 qwerty123: hmm, I see you're charging over USB in mass storage mode, correct? Aug 04 10:11:13 i was a bit back. Aug 04 10:11:22 was that true when you've captured powertop output? Aug 04 10:11:47 nope Aug 04 10:11:56 Good day.. .. to all Aug 04 10:12:02 qwerty123: also, how fast your battery drains? Aug 04 10:13:46 well, i cant say hw fast it drains cause i have 3 batteries in parallel soit lasts al day. but 2300 mah should last more than 12 hrs. Aug 04 10:14:01 qwazix: wifi connected? Aug 04 10:14:06 Aug 04 10:14:10 oops Aug 04 10:14:15 qwerty123: ^^^ Aug 04 10:14:37 * freemangordon hates his stupid IRC client Aug 04 10:14:52 any idea?? Aug 04 10:15:01 WiFi doesn't seem to be up according to that dmesg output. Aug 04 10:15:28 no it was not connected. Aug 04 10:15:41 psycho_oreos: smells like HW failure Aug 04 10:15:54 which hw?? Aug 04 10:16:10 maybe CMT Aug 04 10:16:14 freemangordon, haha I no nothing more than you do but yeah dmesg output doesn't seem to show much imo. Aug 04 10:16:47 *ahem* lemme rephrase, I don't know as much as you freemangordon :). Aug 04 10:16:51 DocScrutinizer51: are you back here? Aug 04 10:17:16 now whats cmt dere?? any cure? Aug 04 10:17:55 qwerty123: this is cellular modem, but I might be wrong (which HW is failing) Aug 04 10:18:29 qwerty123: did you put the device in offline mode for powertop ? Aug 04 10:19:14 not for the out[ut i sent you.. not much difference. Aug 04 10:20:20 hmm. Sorry, can't help further. wait for DocScrutinizer51 to be back from his (day, week, month) off, he might have some idea Aug 04 10:20:29 I wonder if say a power-kernel would help in trying to narrow down the issue. Aug 04 10:21:14 psycho_oreos: I don;t see how, there is nothing in powertop/dmesg, only that high C0 Aug 04 10:21:23 its just a recently flashed phone. no power-kernel. Aug 04 10:22:20 freemangordon, *shrugs* just a wild guess as I tend to think power-kernel would have more patches on top of standard kernel and may (as a result) be more verbose. Aug 04 10:22:37 qwerty123, I know I know, just guessing and thinking. Aug 04 10:23:47 i actually tried stopping every process like browserd n all , still c0 ws same Aug 04 10:24:06 Another random hunch might be r&d mode enabled. I recall people used to say r&d mode tends to chew up a bit more battery than production mode. Aug 04 10:24:26 noppe.. its not enabled. Aug 04 10:24:41 deffinitely sounds like HW failure Aug 04 10:24:54 qwerty123: when did that start? Aug 04 10:25:07 :( :( Aug 04 10:25:22 qwerty123, electronics die.. sooner or later. Aug 04 10:26:12 i dont know. i didnt even care to check for powertop output first, but recently just while trying to optimise my phone i came across it. and there was no solution for it. Aug 04 10:26:43 qwerty123: Someone has mentioned that it stays awake when charging? Aug 04 10:26:50 * SpeedEvil hasn't read all backscroll. Aug 04 10:26:57 yep. sadder because i had to format the whole thing for no gains!! Aug 04 10:27:15 SpeedEvil: he said he did not charge while capturing powertop Aug 04 10:27:17 was not in charge Aug 04 10:27:21 ah Aug 04 10:27:51 cant powertop be wrong?? Aug 04 10:27:58 no Aug 04 10:28:18 i mean i cant find any wild process killing battery.. so ... ohhhkkkaaaayyy Aug 04 10:28:37 qwerty123, its also one step closer in terms of debugging. For hardware troubleshooting its always good to try and deduce as much varied factors as possible. Aug 04 10:28:48 qwerty123: htop is useful Aug 04 10:29:00 qwerty123: you said you use some custom battery? Aug 04 10:29:02 qwerty123: Was the screen off when doing that powertop? Aug 04 10:29:43 yes i do!! Aug 04 10:29:55 yes it was!! Aug 04 10:30:06 My next step would be ssh. Aug 04 10:30:16 ssh into the phone - while it's on wifi. Aug 04 10:30:24 ssh what?? for what? Aug 04 10:30:35 whats the gain there? Aug 04 10:30:35 Now, either directly, or through screen - run htop, with a 60s interval. Aug 04 10:30:50 Then detach - so the process can be _completely_ idle Aug 04 10:30:53 htop is interactive,/// Aug 04 10:31:22 screen lets you detatch from processes and be able to come back to them later Aug 04 10:31:28 i actualy did pkill -stop for process Aug 04 10:31:33 Note - the awk is a lie. Aug 04 10:31:40 In powertop - it's a kernel bug Aug 04 10:31:45 yep! Aug 04 10:31:53 read about it in wiki or tmo. Aug 04 10:31:55 It should really be somthing like 'cpy_freq_check' Aug 04 10:32:01 cpu Aug 04 10:32:09 I submitted a bug - but well... Aug 04 10:32:19 I couldn't find out where it occurred in the kernel Aug 04 10:32:23 http://pastebin.com//KxEjbDqa Aug 04 10:32:30 this is my ooutput of then. Aug 04 10:32:50 maybe i'll fire IDA up someday and RE powertop Aug 04 10:33:43 what is ida?? Aug 04 10:33:44 hmm Aug 04 10:33:48 86 | 54 | INTC | mmc1 Aug 04 10:33:57 Are you sure the indexer isn't running? Aug 04 10:34:06 It's for reverse engineering, turns binaries into ASM. Aug 04 10:34:06 i thinkj powertop is opensource?:D Aug 04 10:34:14 It's not the same powertop Aug 04 10:34:18 ah Aug 04 10:34:18 It's not from intel Aug 04 10:34:18 jaska: not the one we use on N900 Aug 04 10:34:33 okay well it was running. but the output of c0 is almost same even if i stop it. Aug 04 10:34:44 I meant to write a replacement for powertop - biut it's looking rather unlikely at the moment Aug 04 10:35:03 oka y thank yu. Aug 04 10:35:41 < speedevil> okay Aug 04 10:37:33 qwerty123, Are you sure the indexer isn't running? <-- I　believe that is directed at you. Aug 04 10:39:20 i know. i replied, even if its stopped, not much of difference in the output. i have tried pkill - 19 trackerd browserd n else and then powertop-ed , the o/p remained almost constant. Aug 04 10:39:47 qwerty123: tried to remove SIM and uSD? Aug 04 10:40:13 (sorry if I already asked, still having my coffee) Aug 04 10:40:42 yep. c0-> 98.4 n wakeup -> about 33. Aug 04 10:40:47 *313 Aug 04 10:41:08 qwerty123: with SIM and uSD removed? Aug 04 10:41:39 those stats are of w/o sim n usd Aug 04 10:41:47 qwazix: BTW by saying you reflashed it - did you reflash only rootfs? Aug 04 10:41:53 shit Aug 04 10:42:00 qwerty123: ^^^ Aug 04 10:42:04 rootfs & emmc. Aug 04 10:42:24 I am out of ideas :( Aug 04 10:42:46 just a note here -> using an emmc by some guy, eith 8 gb opt partition. Aug 04 10:42:53 *with Aug 04 10:43:05 oh Aug 04 10:43:21 try to flash STOCK rootfs and EMMC Aug 04 10:43:44 have stock rootfs, just emmc varied. Aug 04 10:44:02 I got that, but still, flash vanilla rootfs and EMMC Aug 04 10:44:12 sure.. will do it tonight maybe.. last thing we are left with.. Aug 04 10:44:20 yeah Aug 04 10:45:21 if you can find anything relevant or docscrut* then please post it on tmo thread. i have bumped an old post. Aug 04 10:45:31 ok Aug 04 10:46:55 id there is insanelysexy, (though i am nowhere around it :P ) . and thank you all.. Aug 04 10:49:19 Hmm.. iinm CMT gets erased and flashed during normal flashing procedures, qwerty123 did you notice there was any issues during flashing? like maybe a slowdown during flashing or anything like that? Aug 04 10:49:51 For a minute I thought there was an impostor hanging around :P Aug 04 10:50:27 * psycho_oreos thinks that is just a coincidence :) Aug 04 10:50:44 qwazix: sorry, my IRC client is FUBAR :) Aug 04 10:50:56 freemangordon, no problem! Aug 04 10:51:42 qwazix: now you,re here, any progress on gecko Qt UI? Aug 04 10:52:50 freemangordon, no sorry I haven't got an inch of time... I was wondering if should drop that task. I'd still like to do it but I'm starting to have doubts if I can deliver Aug 04 10:53:06 I see Aug 04 10:53:36 qwazix: however, gecko is still not in shape appropriate for n900, so no hurry :) Aug 04 10:53:55 :nod: Aug 04 10:59:05 doesn't microB run gecko? Aug 04 10:59:12 an outdated version of it Aug 04 10:59:16 it does Aug 04 10:59:32 can't you just update the engine or would that break microB? Aug 04 10:59:51 FIQ: not that easy Aug 04 11:00:04 not sure how tied the engine is to microB Aug 04 11:00:12 FIQ: gtkmozembed(used by microb) was dropped long ago Aug 04 11:00:29 ^^^ is simplified picture, but still Aug 04 11:00:56 and we'd want webgl and HTML5, former requiring GL accelerated UI Aug 04 11:01:14 I think timeless was responsible for microB ages ago. Aug 04 11:01:21 Unfortunately GTK has no GL acceleration Aug 04 11:01:29 iirc there's exprimental webgl support Aug 04 11:01:51 in the current (outdated) version Aug 04 11:02:13 there is. ever tried it? Aug 04 11:02:22 no.. :P Aug 04 11:02:28 microb looks like a dead end :< Aug 04 11:02:35 perhaps there's a reason to why it's exprimental Aug 04 11:03:06 honestly Aug 04 11:03:27 I only use microB on n900 because the other browsers I've tried lag horribly Aug 04 11:03:35 and occasionally even crash Aug 04 11:03:49 FIQ: see, the problem is that GTK cannot provide GL context, thus any GL drawing should be to an offscreen context with a readback and copying to a pixmap Aug 04 11:03:56 and this is slow as hell Aug 04 11:03:59 (microB likes to crash too, but at least it doesn't lag) Aug 04 11:04:15 freemangordon: hmm ok Aug 04 11:04:17 They lag mainly because of preload, they're not well integrated to maemo/hildon structure. There's lighter browsers such as midori for instance. Aug 04 11:05:09 * freemangordon finds microb pretty much OK Aug 04 11:05:29 Tear is another lightweight browser. Aug 04 11:05:34 freemangordon: me too - but it's incredibly frustrating sometimes Aug 04 11:05:45 FIQ: are you on -thumb? Aug 04 11:06:03 there's some weird bug that occasionally makes microB load pages indefinitely without anything happening Aug 04 11:06:35 forcing a reboot of the entire phone to solve it as just closing browser windows tend to not fix it Aug 04 11:06:40 If you have ad block plus installed, it creates huge initial lag. Aug 04 11:06:46 freemangordon: yes Aug 04 11:06:49 lol Aug 04 11:06:53 http://www.ustr.gov/sites/default/files/08032013%20Letter_1.PDF Aug 04 11:06:56 ooh, adblockplus is fubar Aug 04 11:07:00 tl;dr: its ok for apple to infringe samsung, but its not ok for samsung to infringe apple Aug 04 11:07:03 not using adblock Aug 04 11:07:07 go Obama Aug 04 11:07:12 lol Lava_Croft Aug 04 11:08:05 Obama is probably trying to protect US's interest, naturally Apple is founded in US. Aug 04 11:08:35 United states of Russian China Aug 04 11:08:41 :D Aug 04 11:09:05 Jesusland. Aug 04 11:09:09 you know, in the end, Deux Ex will be right Aug 04 11:09:14 and China ends up as the only 'free' country :D Aug 04 11:09:30 One up for communism. Aug 04 11:09:40 deus ex was already right about the WTC, NSA, etc:FD Aug 04 11:11:26 oh, hahaha Aug 04 11:11:29 check this: http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/15/news/economy/obama-stocks/index.htm Aug 04 11:11:37 of course Obama owns a shitload of Apple stock:D Aug 04 11:12:01 how surprising Aug 04 11:12:05 totally! Aug 04 11:12:26 now you see why its useless that you take to the streets:) Aug 04 11:12:30 you just end up with better liars:) Aug 04 11:12:36 heh Aug 04 11:12:47 which is a win after all ;) Aug 04 11:12:52 you take to the streets because your leaders are stupid Aug 04 11:12:55 and way too blunt Aug 04 11:12:59 bad liars:) Aug 04 11:14:09 Politicians, at least where I live have always been ranked very poorly on the list of trusted/respectable people based on their occupation. Aug 04 11:14:30 * psycho_oreos tends to imagine the same wouldn't be different anywhere else. Aug 04 11:14:49 I guess it is the same everywhere, the poit is whether they do something useful while stealing Aug 04 11:14:50 oh, but even if politicians do as the people please, they still get low ratings Aug 04 11:15:01 thats because the plebs have a tendency to give leaders low ratings because the leaders are inevitably to blame Aug 04 11:15:15 even in a country like Holland, where you can basically lick the honey off the streets, people still whine Aug 04 11:15:25 Its more to do with the fact that you can't please everyone. Aug 04 11:15:32 and the leaders are of course to blame for our oh so poor living conditions (lol) Aug 04 11:16:07 Probably because they're in the power to might even be able to do something for its people. Aug 04 11:16:35 they are in power and therefore to blame Aug 04 11:16:39 and people are whiners:) Aug 04 11:16:51 they higher their living standards, the more they whine Aug 04 11:17:10 could probably make an awesome god-game around this concept:D Aug 04 11:17:36 Where capitalism speaks for itself? Aug 04 11:17:49 * psycho_oreos imagines that would crash as often as stock markets would crash. Aug 04 11:29:43 Lava_Croft: Expectations of people are relative to the adjusted social norms of their community. Absolute living standards simply aren't relevant to the neurological/psychological perception of what people feel they are entitled to. Aug 04 11:29:58 zeq1: hi!!! Aug 04 11:30:06 Hi freemangordon :) Aug 04 11:30:29 zeq1: I am still wating latest gcc SB debs, even more now I'm autobuilder maintainer :P Aug 04 11:30:38 err. yeah... Aug 04 11:30:38 *waiting for Aug 04 11:31:08 When I've finished up what I'm currently working on I'll get right to it... Aug 04 11:32:05 so what've I missed? Aug 04 11:32:27 zeq1: I've just finished cleaning up the mess in autobuilder/package interface left by Nemein, I can start thinking about juicy stuff like extras-thumb ;) Aug 04 11:32:31 (Yes, I'm really going to work on it *today*) Aug 04 11:32:45 zeq1: autobuilder/package interface works Aug 04 11:33:15 so that means we'll be getting more updates? Aug 04 11:33:19 zeq1: gecko woth GL accelleration plays youtube stuff with ~20fps Aug 04 11:33:40 zeq1: well, we need people to put stuff into autobuilder for that to happen :D Aug 04 11:33:43 so close to useful ;) Aug 04 11:34:12 zeq1: yeah, I am waiting upstream to finish yet-another-refactoring to continue on that Aug 04 11:34:35 have you tried updating the video driver? Aug 04 11:34:52 zeq1: no, I am not bold enough to do it :D Aug 04 11:35:00 but might give it a try soon Aug 04 11:35:52 I'm going to get back into maemo hacking... get some practise before my Jolla phone arrives :P Aug 04 11:36:50 I didn't deliberately stay away, just seemed to spend a lot of time hacking on Gentoo Aug 04 11:37:13 not enough time Aug 04 11:37:13 Stuff gets in the way :/ Aug 04 11:37:22 Here it's trying to make the house habitable. Aug 04 11:37:36 And being exhausted most of the rest of the time. Aug 04 11:37:41 yeah, that kind of thing too. Aug 04 11:37:56 zeq1: won't be long you'll be back to maemo if my understanding on what jolla phone is is correct ;) Aug 04 11:38:19 freemangordon: got a bad feeling about it? Aug 04 11:38:28 yeah :( Aug 04 11:38:29 Well - Jolla isn't coming out in the next several months. Aug 04 11:38:53 I feel this will be more closed than Harmattan Aug 04 11:39:02 we'll see Aug 04 11:39:09 yup Aug 04 11:39:15 I'd be surprised though Aug 04 11:39:29 Absolute worst case, I can buy it and flip it on ebay. Aug 04 11:39:44 yep Aug 04 11:39:44 I really, really, really hope that's not the case, and I don't think it's going to be. Aug 04 11:39:53 zeq1: why, those are the same guys that made Harm? Aug 04 11:40:00 there's no way they'll kill off developer interest like that IMO Aug 04 11:40:22 the *need* the community Aug 04 11:40:25 The problem with Harm isn't really the technology at all. Aug 04 11:40:31 It's the policy. Aug 04 11:40:35 zeq1: are you aware they thrown away X in favour of wayland in the latest SDK? Aug 04 11:40:51 Add the ability to add community repos - and mostly great. Aug 04 11:40:52 that's not a problem at all though Aug 04 11:41:03 nothing wrong with wayland Aug 04 11:41:04 zeq1: technically it is not Aug 04 11:41:30 the point is how they treat the developers Aug 04 11:41:45 you mean the unannounced change? Aug 04 11:41:47 at least this is my understanding Aug 04 11:41:59 it's been announced, so what? Aug 04 11:42:12 that's what I'm asking you :) Aug 04 11:42:43 see, they released alpha SDK half an year ago, with X Aug 04 11:42:55 http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=1879299#p1879299 - needs to be read and thought about by those involved. I hope most of them already have an understanding of the issues. Aug 04 11:42:57 why is it a problem they switched to wayland? it was originally the intention as I recall, but the kept with X because they thought the phone would be ready some time ago...; Aug 04 11:43:08 - The openmoko saga Aug 04 11:43:40 zeq1: my point is - it is not a good idea to make such big changes half the way Aug 04 11:43:48 politically Aug 04 11:43:59 I am not saying wayland is a bad thing Aug 04 11:44:46 At some point you've got to balance that against the problems of making changes in your next phone. Aug 04 11:44:55 but IMO the correct thing to do was to release their first device as initially planned and to make that change later. Aug 04 11:45:05 If, for example - you get this phone out using X - and _then_ change - you cause major problems. Aug 04 11:45:06 freemangordon: there is another way of looking at it. They could have stuck with X for the first phone, then switched to wayland. But that would have meant it was an orphan... Aug 04 11:45:18 See above openmoko issues. Aug 04 11:45:28 Changing toolkits was one of the major problems there. Aug 04 11:45:54 well, I can;t be completely wrong on that one, I just have that feeling :) Aug 04 11:45:59 can even Aug 04 11:46:48 let's hope so :) Aug 04 11:46:58 yeah Aug 04 11:47:32 Let's hope by Xmas 2014 Jolla and Ubuntu phones have more market share than windows. Aug 04 11:48:02 :nod: Aug 04 11:48:14 could happen Aug 04 11:48:19 And that Nokia releases the N960 finally,after stopping being silly. Aug 04 11:48:35 not so sure about that Aug 04 11:48:48 however, i won;t give up on my n900 until someone makes a device with FM Tx Aug 04 11:49:12 SpeedEvil: are you high? :P Aug 04 11:49:19 N960 lol.. probably windows powered. Aug 04 11:49:33 freemangordon: Alas - I suspect the latter is even less likely than the former two. Aug 04 11:49:38 n900 has some nice hw features FM tx especially Aug 04 11:50:15 FM Tx is a must for me, actually this was the reason I bought n900 in the first place Aug 04 11:50:30 well, the major reason Aug 04 11:51:07 …Nokia's been on the payola a /lot/ recently Aug 04 11:51:19 payola? Aug 04 11:51:50 psycho_oreos: if you've watched any recent movie, there's a prominently featured Lumia in it Aug 04 11:51:50 http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=USBFMT&gclid=CL_Ph4Hd47gCFcfJtAod8RUAeg Aug 04 11:52:01 hacking possibilities? Aug 04 11:52:53 Hurrian: also lots of US TV series, MS Surfaces too Aug 04 11:53:09 I doubt it makes much of difference to sales though Aug 04 11:53:11 zeq1: won;t do the job for me, the only real alternative is BT A2DP->FMTx Aug 04 11:53:32 Which I was unable to find by the time I was searching for Aug 04 11:53:40 Hurrian, lol that very much reminds me of how n8 was being featured in some sci-fi movie. Too bad I　don't watch hollywood movies all that often. Aug 04 11:54:08 freemangordon: some on ebay Aug 04 11:54:35 cuold be, however it is way better if integrated (fmtx) Aug 04 11:55:02 zeq1: keep in mind I was looking for such a device before I bought n900 Aug 04 11:55:07 that's what I meant about hacking above. take the usb stick apart and wire it internally Aug 04 11:55:16