**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 14 02:59:59 2013 Aug 14 03:19:39 jus booted up after replacing battery and removing from charger. Aug 14 03:20:23 package name of backupmenu or rescue console.. pls apt_get install >>>>> Aug 14 03:27:46 just installed backup menu Aug 14 04:18:55 hm. cutetube in the stable repo is broken Aug 14 04:20:27 maybe the testing one works Aug 14 04:29:00 odd. the newer cutetube isnt in the repos Aug 14 04:30:50 i enabled extras-devel Aug 14 04:30:55 isnt showing up Aug 14 04:32:31 oh Aug 14 04:32:41 cssu-s has the merlin repo as devel Aug 14 06:41:46 ~rescueos Aug 14 06:41:46 from memory, rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ Aug 14 06:42:00 infobot, rescueos is also http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ Aug 14 06:42:00 okay, psycho_oreos Aug 14 06:42:05 ~rescueos Aug 14 06:42:06 methinks rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/, or http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ Aug 14 06:44:33 ~botsnack Aug 14 06:44:34 psycho_oreos: aw, gee Aug 14 06:46:17

wow, so cool to see a thread where someone compares a 2005 device to a 2009 device and everyone else flames the 2005 device, or whatever <-- The guy posted in the wrong area mainly and I guess most of us were N900 fans to begin with. Aug 14 06:47:38 Well.. I guess there's partially "favouritism" but also the way the OP phrased things were all subject to closer scrutiny. Aug 14 06:51:30 I'm pretty certain the exact same case were to be done elsewhere, regardless if its xda-developers or iphone forums. Posting in the wrong area and in a way to proclaim the "device" to be superior as opposed to whatever most others are using and it'll be like adding fuel to fire. Aug 14 07:10:04 lol @ thread hijackers. Shifting from one issue to another when the OP already had the issue solved. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1366367 Aug 14 07:14:45 * psycho_oreos bets viqtah is Indian. Aug 14 07:31:52 have to love fbsd ports Aug 14 07:31:54 heh Aug 14 07:57:44 hi, is that posible, to boot the internal kernel, and make it mount root in sd card, instead of internal emmc ? Aug 14 07:58:14 I've had strange behaviour lately on emmc, and I thought it could be a good idea to move to sd, it that is posible Aug 14 07:59:28 another option, is stop using home, mydocs and swap on emmc, and only use root, AFAIK it is a mostly read partition right? Aug 14 08:00:08 that last method is quite easy, just modify mount options on /etc Aug 14 08:00:23 what do you think about? anybody has had any experience with that? Aug 14 08:13:40 I believe rootfs is stored on a NAND partition. It is not stored on eMMC. Aug 14 08:14:23 yup Aug 14 08:14:25 Using only rootfs would not make the device function properly (if at all). Aug 14 08:14:50 it would sort of work with early versions Aug 14 08:14:55 now not at all Aug 14 08:15:03 Missing swap (which is almost a necessity due to RAM size), missing /home and /opt which shares the same partition on eMMC. Aug 14 08:15:18 in principle, there is no reason you can't use SD instead Aug 14 08:15:27 but, I could move everything on emmc to external sd, just editing startup scripts, to mount those on sd Aug 14 08:15:31 nobodies done it and written it up though Aug 14 08:15:44 Exactly, nobody is willing to take that risk either. Aug 14 08:16:36 IIRC someone installing bootmenu, then reinstalling the NAND using meego Aug 14 08:16:44 they having a broken USB Aug 14 08:16:47 worked Aug 14 08:16:56 but not written up Aug 14 08:17:08 there was a meego SD image Aug 14 08:17:12 I remember someone documenting meego installation using that nice N900 flashing jig. Aug 14 08:20:16 I'd imagine without a fast enough microSD card (class 10 barely scrapes that mark unless one forks out a really trustworthy and a fast type), you need to somehow delay certain things because there of speed difference. Aug 14 08:20:53 s/of/is a/ Aug 14 08:20:53 psycho_oreos meant: I'd imagine without a fast enough microSD card (class 10 barely scrapes that mark unless one forks out a really trustworthy and a fast type), you need to somehow delay certain things because there is a speed difference. Aug 14 08:20:55 on /etc/init.d/rcS, mounting swap and home seems to be harcoded Aug 14 08:20:59 read speeds are often similar Aug 14 08:21:08 right, I would need a fast sd Aug 14 08:21:15 write speeds otoh aren't. Aug 14 08:21:45 my first approach would be to change the device node names in early boot Aug 14 08:21:50 see if that worked Aug 14 08:21:56 Yeah there would be a few scripts you need to change around to make it work. It's not some easy one way job. Aug 14 08:22:21 hmm via udev? Aug 14 08:22:27 I wonder if simply turning off the NAND support in kernel would work Aug 14 08:22:29 dunno Aug 14 08:23:24 another option, if emmc is not a smart chip (ie: logical sector XX is always the same physical sector on NAND), use small partitions, and the day some physical sectors get defective, move that partitio to a higher block of sectors on emmc Aug 14 08:24:44 Also, this is a little unrelated but often at times for me to have my microSD to be mounted at boot (which is already using ext3) seems to not work well. I often get "Unsupported SD card" or something like that, in which I just run one of those QueenBeeCon widget I made to force mount it later. I wonder if that would be an issue if forcing maemo to run on microSD and with ext3 fs. Aug 14 08:26:23 I sort of had always been under the impression that eMMC heavily relies on e2fsck tools to check and mark bad sectors, etc. Aug 14 08:27:11 I also somehow would think that eMMC behaves a little similar to how SSD would behave.. still heavily depending on external fs tools to check their status. Aug 14 08:27:14 hm, I never got "unsupported sd card" at boot, ever Aug 14 08:27:28 Running on ext3 for microSD? Aug 14 08:27:33 no Aug 14 08:27:41 left it as the vfat it was Aug 14 08:28:10 yeah, I wondered how much of a problem it might create if you switch to a proper fs Aug 14 08:28:10 That would be the case :) I reckon. I'm using ext3 on both eMMC and microSD. eMMC never fails to mount but microSD (~90% of the time) fails. Aug 14 08:28:52 In theory it shouldn't have issues mounting ext3fs but for some reason I believe somewhere else is still thinking microSD fs are always vfat and not some other exotic fs. Aug 14 08:29:02 I have swap, vfat and ext3 on sd, but I don't remember how do I mount them, I think I do it with a own script, IIRC Aug 14 08:29:09 with it being ext3, does all that remounting stuff when you connect to a computer via usb still work? Aug 14 08:29:33 sometimes get that error message, but I always have them mounted Aug 14 08:29:57 I don't use masstorage Aug 14 08:30:05 amospalla, that would also be my way of doing it. "hackish" yes but nonetheless it works. Aug 14 08:30:22 well, yes, I've done it sometimes, and the small vfat on sd is exported via usb Aug 14 08:30:43 psycho_oreos: what are you refering to? Aug 14 08:31:01 about the way to mount? or the emmc partitions? Aug 14 08:31:19 Iridos, I also hardly use mass storage mode as well. Though I believe remounting on computer works as always, it may not work once umounted from computer and N900 tries to mount it by itself. Though I have not tried recently so I wouldn't know (let alone care). Aug 14 08:31:25 psycho_oreos: fs created on sd throught phone, or from pc? Aug 14 08:31:31 amospalla, mounting. Aug 14 08:31:57 drathir, I believe at the time when I did it, it was through computer. Aug 14 08:32:34 I once set n900 to start at boot as root, a script on /root/local.start, and I do lots of funky things there Aug 14 08:33:05 what is your major way to exchange files with the n900 then? Aug 14 08:33:07 that strange in this case i have problems with mount but fs created from phone was... Aug 14 08:33:08 I probably would have done mkfs.ext3 on device before but it was painfully slow. Though its been ages ago since I recall how or what I did. Aug 14 08:33:10 the last one, is starting /home/user/bin/local.start as user "user" :D Aug 14 08:33:40 amospalla: why do that? Aug 14 08:33:52 I wished I could get upstart to behave nicely lol. Some of my daemons fail to start for some unknown reason. Aug 14 08:34:55 Iridos, I mainly use sshfs (yes I know its slow and somewhat overkill) but I tend to keep the device usable through remoting as well rather than just treating it as mass storage mode and not being able to have access to those exported volumes on the device itself. Aug 14 08:35:00 I mount things on sd, launch some custom scripts, execute some terminals at startup... 4 years of having a n900 let me to thing about a lot of funny and strange things Aug 14 08:35:19 hi all! Sorry for off-topic, but could someone tell me is there any channel about a Canonical "ubuntuphone"? Aug 14 08:35:29 amospalla: you mean all system booted in root mode? Thats bad idea i think all data net saved on big storage in this case... Aug 14 08:35:48 You could probably ask in #ubuntu and hopefully they'll redirect you to appropriate channel usr_courier. Aug 14 08:37:05 drathir: no, I mean, I run things as root, to say, mount, bind mounts, starting daemons from a chroot I've set up, and finally, launch a 'su -s /bin/sh -c "/home/user/bin/local.start" user', to run things as user Aug 14 08:37:09 usr_courier: /msg alice help Aug 14 08:37:13 I used to also make upstart do some funky things upon boot, but with mixed success. Nowadays daemons fail to start for some weird reason, if I manually invoked them to start, they start otherwise they remain stopped. Aug 14 08:37:19 if good remember Aug 14 08:37:21 drathir, you meant alis Aug 14 08:37:24 drathir: everything runs with its correct user Aug 14 08:37:26 found one Aug 14 08:37:37 #ubuntu-touch Aug 14 08:37:50 psycho_oreos: yes yes should find by name channel Aug 14 08:38:51 btw is anybody here interested in that platform too and can say a few words on "ubuntu touch" versus "maemo/meego/tizen" platform? Which one is more "open"? Any suggestions? Aug 14 08:39:26 That's as good as trying to compare a fictional device with a fully released device. Aug 14 08:39:49 I just hope ubuntu is open enough, so when my n900 dies I can have a decent gnu/linux on my mobile, without having to set a hacky/broken chroot Aug 14 08:40:42 amospalla: considering an "upgrade" to ubuntu-touch? Aug 14 08:41:02 amospalla: are you aware of Jolla? Aug 14 08:41:08 I personally doubt it will, ubuntu's theme isn't the same as its parent debian who is critical of open sourced stuff. If you also have a look at most other embedded devices, they still have proprietary components. Even raspberry pi. Aug 14 08:41:35 SpeedEvil: I've read a bit of it, but is that really open? at least, as much as maemo is? Aug 14 08:41:41 let's combine the best of both worlds Aug 14 08:41:44 android and ubuntu Aug 14 08:41:44 Jolla seem the most likely to produce a worthy successor Aug 14 08:41:47 what can possibly go wrong Aug 14 08:42:25 Lava_Croft, yeah android base with ubuntu theme :> that would be effective, keep hardware manufacturers happy that the underlying hardware components is closed source. Aug 14 08:42:27 maemo > meego i think but the meego and mostly tizen should have bigger future... Aug 14 08:42:28 AFAIK maemo5 is not fully open too, there are seems to be binary drivers Aug 14 08:42:28 Jolla is nice in principle because it can run androsid apps in klinux Aug 14 08:42:41 if only jolla hardware was to get a decent hardware keyboard Aug 14 08:42:53 psycho_oreos: are you SURE you KNOW what you are talking about? Aug 14 08:42:56 usr_courier: I'm not considering upgrade to ubuntu right now, just hope it can be a good competitor, competition is good, and if it is open enough, it can make a good difference Aug 14 08:42:58 :) Aug 14 08:43:05 had they announced one, I would've pre-ordered the thing already Aug 14 08:43:27 usr_courier, exactly about what? the last comment I directed to Lava_Croft was a joke. I wasn't serious. Aug 14 08:43:50 I see no problem in porting ubuntu to an ARM phone. Debian was ported to n900 Aug 14 08:44:01 psycho_oreos: ok Aug 14 08:44:07 I see a problem. ubuntu. ;-) Aug 14 08:44:15 thats why they use android too Aug 14 08:44:18 to fix ubuntu! Aug 14 08:44:19 android is open like hell even cant acces to full root phone thats for me isnt open... Aug 14 08:44:25 * Lava_Croft chuckles like a madman Aug 14 08:44:27 The problem is not about porting, the problem is the openness of the said agreement with the suppliers and manufacturers of those respective components. Aug 14 08:44:29 wnd: is this an religious issue? Aug 14 08:44:37 usr_courier: you mean, the chroot? I have not played with that, but can a chroot be completely integrated, to the point to replace the host system? Aug 14 08:45:19 I still remain skeptic whether ubuntu edge will fly or not. Currently they are at least $21 million short. Aug 14 08:45:44 and they have no device Aug 14 08:45:51 amospalla: I think it can, just no one wants to remove maemo from his/her n900 as a master system Aug 14 08:45:58 usr_courier, mostly yes, but I've also had my fair share of bad experience in trying to maintain a few hundred computers with ubuntu installed on them Aug 14 08:46:02 Yeah so we are debating/discussing over "fictional" product. Aug 14 08:46:10 So many possibilities.. Aug 14 08:46:12 the only guys who really have a working device is Jolla Aug 14 08:46:19 because debian on n900 was just a toy Aug 14 08:46:20 ubuntu for od until 11.04 go with bad side that dont like me so much... Aug 14 08:46:23 the rest piggyback rides on other devices Aug 14 08:46:53 psycho_oreos: I am not going to debate with you on finctioness of this product Aug 14 08:46:54 usr_courier: I refered to android/ubuntu only, n900 can not handle current android/ubuntu with its 256MB of memory :(, it is out of the equation Aug 14 08:47:04 it can handle it Aug 14 08:47:08 just not good enough:) Aug 14 08:47:10 psycho_oreos: follow peacefully your strange beliefs Aug 14 08:47:23 right Aug 14 08:47:40 sadly Aug 14 08:47:52 android wants a quadcore cpu to perform Aug 14 08:47:57 because its such good software Aug 14 08:48:06 usr_courier: if you dont do so much changes maemo is fully functionall... Aug 14 08:48:06 I'm sure there's fair few amongst us whom would prefer having a proper hardware keyboard which this ubuntu edge seems to currently lack. You can already see a few TMO threads about people who wishes Jolla phone/device actually has a hardware keyboard. Aug 14 08:48:22 jolla will release a keyboard device in time Aug 14 08:48:33 * usr_courier looks at his single core android phone and then on Lava_Croft Aug 14 08:48:47 i look at my nexus7 Aug 14 08:48:48 usr_courier, I don't think anybody who laid money on the said product would anyway :) I'm just stating where I stand amongst this "ubuntu edge". Aug 14 08:49:08 Lava_Croft: oh that info litte scare me... Aug 14 08:49:12 ubuntu edge movie mostly sounded like some rapper telling about his phone Aug 14 08:49:17 sapphire glass yo Aug 14 08:49:40 Critics also mentioned about that :) Aug 14 08:49:42 ok, got the point. Thanks Aug 14 08:49:52 Lava_Croft: because sadly maybe be interested that device... Aug 14 08:50:25 Hey, ubuntu edge is just speculation at this moment, it might change and be more awesome Aug 14 08:50:31 but just like i wouldnt want a phone that says 'Windows' Aug 14 08:50:37 i also dont want a phone that says 'ubuntu Aug 14 08:50:51 bad experiences Aug 14 08:51:43 ubuntu changes for me go to bad side all the time now... Aug 14 08:51:52 Hah, I'd prefer ubuntu any given day over windows. You see windows phones these days, much like any generic computer keyboard featuring "windows" logo as a key. Talk about lameness, *cough* Apple *cough* doesn't even do that. Aug 14 08:52:48 psycho_oreos: but still ubuntu > win Aug 14 08:52:59 i rather have windows Aug 14 08:53:02 since at least windows runs games Aug 14 08:53:10 :) Aug 14 08:53:42 drathir, yeah hell yeah. To me any given day definitely I'd prefer something that's a little more open than have Ballmer spewing "Developers, Developers, Developers" over his coffin. Aug 14 08:54:01 I wish that ubuntu phone to be like maemo: a beautiful shell upon a "standard" stack of software below of it "bash, apt-get, an X compatible display, and the full ubuntu repo of software", something similar to what maemo is, but modern Aug 14 08:54:42 Lava_Croft: wine maybe was ported to arm too Aug 14 08:55:59 If the hardware was fast enough and features something similar to VT-d or AMD-V, I'm sure one could run windows within a VM and therefore games. There's no real need to install windows on real hardware and let it meddle with the raw stuff. Aug 14 08:56:21 amospalla: ubuntu go to bad side not performance and good to use now only good look for eyes nothing more... Aug 14 08:57:25 thats why i run from ubuntu to arch... When they give me no choice by default with unity... Aug 14 08:57:43 I was told that you can remove unity, not sure personally. Aug 14 08:58:06 I think most complaints to ubuntu come from their shell, but that is something you can change with apt-get, please correct me if I am wrong Aug 14 08:58:28 but once you jump that gap, isn't it a traditional linux under the hood? Aug 14 08:59:04 psycho_oreos: yes i can but in ubu always when you remove somethin from system stuff near future system go down... Aug 14 08:59:33 If generally speaking, I believe most find the likes of distros such as ubuntu too appealing to not use CLI. It's kinda like running windows and not having to bother with CLI but except when ubuntu's GUI stuffs up and you're left with CLI you probably would end up screaming. Aug 14 08:59:33 that is what I mean, if ubuntu phone still follows that rule, I will surely jump to it, with all my known gnu/linux tools below it, and a repo full of thousands of packages, just what I love on n900 Aug 14 08:59:41 or will be have all time suprises... Aug 14 09:00:01 drathir, not quite sure what you meant there. Aug 14 09:01:00 Also fair few distros are moving towards wayland and deprecating Xorg. I have already heard some unpleasant stuff about wayland. Though I'm sure every other distros has their ups and downs. Aug 14 09:01:40 Arch is heavily relying on systemd and there's already critics loathing it. Then there's upstart which ubuntu also uses but its not a complete replacement compared to sysvinit. Aug 14 09:01:52 I'm sure people will have gripes here and there.. regardless. Aug 14 09:03:11 drathir: wine is not a replacement for windows, when it comes to games:) Aug 14 09:03:47 psycho_oreos: when you remove unity components you should have all time problems any kind that was all time in past when customize the ubuntu instalation a lot of dependencies and to much integrated... Aug 14 09:03:48 steam is changing the "games" world on linux, and I hope it keep growing fast Aug 14 09:03:49 Nonetheless you find winedb being filled with game titles. Almost always. Aug 14 09:04:06 that says nothing about how said games run Aug 14 09:04:10 what the problems may be Aug 14 09:04:12 performance Aug 14 09:04:24 its easier to just run a win7 install:) Aug 14 09:04:29 psycho_oreos: yes wayland isnt perfect but is still so young project... Aug 14 09:04:35 drathir, well yeah that's true but it doesn't mean that you can't technically cannot remove unity. Just harder heh. Aug 14 09:05:01 steam changed the gameworld on linux by porting old games to linux Aug 14 09:05:04 why remove unity? it is deeply inside, just don't run it Aug 14 09:05:12 isn't that posible? Aug 14 09:05:57 Lava_Croft: sure not in all case but some of games better works on wine than native windows i hear that not one time... Aug 14 09:05:58 That's probably because winedb isn't as polished as cedega ;), have a look at crossover/cedega's variant. Even though they are more proprietary, their db seems to be well polished over the freeform *ahem* wine variant. Aug 14 09:06:04 drathir, true. Aug 14 09:06:16 drathir: yeah just like the people stating game X runs faster under linux Aug 14 09:06:19 than under windows Aug 14 09:06:28 too bad thats just almost always untrue Aug 14 09:07:09 Depending on their underlying engine. If the engine was based on opengl for instance, on linux it maybe faster but not always. Aug 14 09:07:20 thats just the renderer Aug 14 09:07:29 what about sound, lol Aug 14 09:07:35 psycho_oreos: g2 was the best for me... Sad they stop develop... Aug 14 09:07:39 I'm sure anandtech had an article about it.. err no.. phoronix. Aug 14 09:07:47 phoronix Aug 14 09:07:52 a good source for unbiased news Aug 14 09:08:06 drathir, g2? Aug 14 09:08:18 Its hard to find unbiased news these days regardless. Aug 14 09:09:22 Lava_Croft: sounds sadly sometimes is little silence... Aug 14 09:09:23 yeah, but phoronix is known for their silly articles Aug 14 09:09:45 or take down alsa with overload... Aug 14 09:09:52 besides, im the type that always tests cross platform games on both wintoons and lunix Aug 14 09:10:04 and 99 out of a 100 times, wintoons just wins when it comes to that Aug 14 09:10:11 which isnt strange, given the history Aug 14 09:10:24 psycho_oreos: the best old gnome2... Aug 14 09:10:27 the moment gnu/linux can honestly replace windows for gaming, a lot of folks will ditch windows happily Aug 14 09:11:27 it is a process, if steam is able to produce that, will take its time, that can not be done in a few months Aug 14 09:11:40 Given the fact most games were based around windows' directX for that matter. Though even if lets not say I sourced my arguments from phoronix but say that in a more general sense that gaming windows games on linux isn't too far behind. I wouldn't be far off the mark either. Aug 14 09:11:42 people talk like its steam that makes games work under linux Aug 14 09:11:46 stop dreaming please Aug 14 09:11:51 steam is only a DRM platform for games Aug 14 09:11:57 developers need to port their games to linux Aug 14 09:12:04 drathir, ahh I don't think I've ever used gnome2 lol. I think I started with KDE but that was years ago. Aug 14 09:12:38 yes, that is completely sure, but steam may orchestrate that, that is his role, and an important one Aug 14 09:12:47 no, steam has no real role in that Aug 14 09:13:00 a triple A studio is not going to port their direct3d based engine to linux anytime soon Aug 14 09:13:05 Steam maybe the distributor but do remember the fact that steam was strictly for windows only. Aug 14 09:13:08 not even id Software sees any reason to port to linux Aug 14 09:13:41 Lava_Croft: yes can with better performance if game firm and develop are to lazy to make native on linux and scare that performance will be better than win one... Aug 14 09:13:45 steam on linux is mostly great for the indies Aug 14 09:13:46 if the movement steam is doing is not able to change the games situation, it will never ever do, I am almost sure about that Aug 14 09:13:47 and smaller devs Aug 14 09:14:01 triple A studios dont care for linux, since its market share is tiny Aug 14 09:14:05 they care more about apples Aug 14 09:14:15 that is right, but I hope that changes Aug 14 09:14:22 hope is great, indeed Aug 14 09:14:27 but i dont see it change anytime soon, sadly Aug 14 09:14:38 also, dont forget that MS really did good work on directc Aug 14 09:14:41 directx Aug 14 09:14:45 its amazing, but they did! Aug 14 09:14:58 :'( Aug 14 09:15:03 That was then, I wonder has directX become more bloat. Aug 14 09:15:20 people like John Carmack state these days that directx is better than opengl Aug 14 09:15:30 but opengl sticks around due to inertie Aug 14 09:15:36 inertia* Aug 14 09:15:55 * psycho_oreos personally believes its more to do with cross-compatibility. Aug 14 09:16:40 I wouldn't doubt directX would be bad, too bad its just windows-centric piece of technology. Aug 14 09:16:55 that doesnt matter, since windows is where the money is made Aug 14 09:16:58 * psycho_oreos recalls all the cool demoscene stuff were heavily relying on directX. Aug 14 09:17:01 opengl has been dormant for years, until lately, when has woken up Aug 14 09:17:10 directx just caught up on opengl Aug 14 09:17:14 directx take a lot of advantage during that time Aug 14 09:17:16 and surpassed it Aug 14 09:17:26 thats the silly thing about MS Aug 14 09:17:32 they are so able to fuck things up in a grand way Aug 14 09:17:39 but then you see directx and you wonder what Aug 14 09:17:44 they DO have capable employees Aug 14 09:18:04 Their CEO is messed up in the head -_-' Aug 14 09:18:05 wonder why they didnt work on the windows8 team! :) Aug 14 09:18:42 but ill gladly admit Aug 14 09:18:47 it feels cool to run steam on linux Aug 14 09:19:00 so i can totally imagine getting carried away with the dream of Linux Gaming:D Aug 14 09:19:10 its just so neat to start l4d2 orso on linux Aug 14 09:19:17 (until you notice it runs worse than on windows) Aug 14 09:19:35 Gates, sadly I admit is the brains behind M$, without Gates's influence I don't think M$ can stand on its own well.. Just look at all the news surrounding Ballmer. Aug 14 09:20:05 * psycho_oreos thinks of Steam on linux, then thinks of TF2 with that bonus little mascot. Aug 14 09:21:33 Slowly but surely linux will make an impact. It's all in a matter of time. It has already dominated in areas which windows cannot reach simply because of their PR issues. Aug 14 09:21:34 im a Quake person, tf2 is blasphemy Aug 14 09:21:38 :) Aug 14 09:22:27 Hah blasphemy! lol first time I've heard that religious term being used on games :D Aug 14 09:23:14 psycho_oreos: apple picks up the slack Aug 14 09:23:27 every year has been "the year of linux" heh Aug 14 09:23:35 year of linux desktop yo Aug 14 09:23:55 hey, at least MS is helping out the linux community with windows8 Aug 14 09:24:00 the only major market impact of linux (if you want to call it that) would be android using a linux kernel heh Aug 14 09:24:04 Macor, *shrugs* I somewhat beg to differ. I think Apple is still trying to maintain its hold on the marketshare. Aug 14 09:24:44 * psycho_oreos was thinking moreso about the likes of other embedded devices including CPE routers. Aug 14 09:24:50 http://quakeone.com/~files/7_bm7.jpg Aug 14 09:24:52 team fortress! Aug 14 09:25:13 maybe. but then ahain osx is just a mach kernel using a fbsd base with a somewhat crap wm Aug 14 09:25:27 yeah... that too but you dont notice it as much Aug 14 09:25:44 but that isnt a real end user using it type of deal Aug 14 09:25:55 heh bit of TF decal : Aug 14 09:25:57 :P Aug 14 09:26:31 I was moreso thinking about that recent news on how Apple decided to piss some people off with that Breaking Bad TV series. Aug 14 09:26:41 with the exception of ubuntu and rh... linux is a bit niche Aug 14 09:27:13 Also iPhone 5 using Nano-SIM or whatever its called, and a brand new connector named Thunderbolt or whatever it is. Aug 14 09:27:40 no company has put out a linux box for consumer use and has had success with it Aug 14 09:27:51 There's probably a large proportion of web servers running linux, alas that gets ignored. Aug 14 09:28:10 They can't profit on a software that is free :p Aug 14 09:28:13 that isnt end use either ;) Aug 14 09:28:24 Macor: I do not believe that that is true Aug 14 09:28:26 sure they can Aug 14 09:28:26 with the oem savings Aug 14 09:28:31 Its no different than how Apple treats its "hackintosh" base. Aug 14 09:28:54 No but it still is something one can brag about :p linux being everywhere else. Aug 14 09:28:55 Wizzup: heh. im sure there are plenty of stats on it Aug 14 09:29:11 I think there's several companies selling ubuntu laptops Aug 14 09:29:17 There's huge stores in china selling ubuntu laptops Aug 14 09:29:27 And the dell sputnik? laptop also sold quite well Aug 14 09:29:35 And there's all the android devices Aug 14 09:29:39 which are also linux based Aug 14 09:29:43 and i bet it only amounts to a small % of overall sales in comparison to a win or apple box Aug 14 09:29:44 Dell at one stage also offered linux preinstalls iinm. It only happened in US sadly. Aug 14 09:29:53 psycho_oreos: I can still get a laptop with ubuntu preinstalled from dell Aug 14 09:29:56 and I live in the EU Aug 14 09:30:10 oh well Aug 14 09:30:19 does it change the price of the unit? Aug 14 09:30:25 Yes Aug 14 09:30:34 by how much? Aug 14 09:30:38 Wizzup, heh news to me, though these days I prefer a non-branded laptop instead. I hate how the majority of the brands still stick with mainstream crap. Aug 14 09:31:01 Macor: I don't know. 60? Aug 14 09:31:22 i'm just saying. overall linux sales probably amount to like 1% Aug 14 09:31:23 You're essentially not paying M$ loyalty fee. Aug 14 09:31:30 psycho_oreos: also not for office, etc Aug 14 09:32:02 and im sure a lot of it still has to do with unsupported hardware Aug 14 09:32:07 Wizzup, yeah mainly because they doubt linux's viability for business usage. Aug 14 09:32:08 like iphones heh Aug 14 09:32:19 Lava_Croft: better than port direct make games like rage dropping directx... Aug 14 09:32:23 or having to shop for a specific scanner Aug 14 09:32:31 and hope sane doesnt suck with it Aug 14 09:33:06 games like Rage actually nearly dropped opengl Aug 14 09:33:11 in favor of directx:) Aug 14 09:33:12 psycho_oreos: plus most cos are institutionalized on exchange Aug 14 09:33:23 and tbh there isnt a real better local alternative Aug 14 09:33:45 zimbra was probably the closest until it got totally fked up Aug 14 09:33:51 amospalla: not sure if they see % gamers on linux maybe they think about linux users more seriously... Aug 14 09:34:47 i doubt gaming has that big of an impact nowadays Aug 14 09:34:53 drathir: I hope they do Aug 14 09:35:05 devs are stopping on their pc games Aug 14 09:35:10 they are? Aug 14 09:35:12 like 2k and ea Aug 14 09:35:18 2k and ea Aug 14 09:35:23 Macor, which heavily depends on one's beliefs :p to me I'm sure most other manufacturers frown upon the likes of linux was most likely to do with bribing. Have a look about 2 years ago (or wait, even less). In Australia, you see computer advertisments with recommending windows Aug 14 09:35:25 no nba2k or madden for pc heh Aug 14 09:35:26 when are the last games they released that were good Aug 14 09:36:04 i dont mind companies like 2k and ea leaving the PC space Aug 14 09:36:04 heh.. just saying. there is quite the sports games cult Aug 14 09:36:08 let them dump their crap on the consoles Aug 14 09:36:24 not better is more popularised that people still not informed that better alternatives to winscary, but great for w8 ppl maybe looks for alternatives much more... Aug 14 09:36:33 i feel bad for nintendo Aug 14 09:36:37 wiiu is a bust Aug 14 09:36:45 devs already abandoned it Aug 14 09:36:50 it isnt viable Aug 14 09:37:22 pretty soon it will be ms and sony and thats it Aug 14 09:37:56 dont say so hard that nintendo is gone Aug 14 09:38:01 people said that countless times about nintendo Aug 14 09:38:08 and it is nintendo's fault. they released it without many of their franchise games ready Aug 14 09:38:14 like nokia, its a company over a 100 years old, it aint going away anytime soon Aug 14 09:38:36 Though nokia will become small and probably niche, like sega. Aug 14 09:38:50 sega doesnt make consoles heh Aug 14 09:38:59 They _used_ to. Aug 14 09:39:03 but i guess nokia doesnt make operating systems Aug 14 09:39:07 :) Aug 14 09:39:21 They still do make consoles, but not for the consumer-end market. Aug 14 09:39:35 i guess Aug 14 09:39:44 nokia, mind you was making varied stuff before it became a mobile/cell phone manufacturere. Aug 14 09:39:48 s/re/r/ Aug 14 09:39:49 psycho_oreos meant: nokia, mind you was making varied stuff befor it became a mobile/cell phone manufacturere. Aug 14 09:39:52 opengl have better graphics more realistic and less performance requitments than directx... Aug 14 09:40:20 nokia boots was notably one of the things nokia made back then. Aug 14 09:40:30 dx has to middle man it Aug 14 09:40:45 oh, dx is dying alright Aug 14 09:41:06 doubt it... devs are institutionalized on the apis Aug 14 09:41:26 * psycho_oreos can only imagine bribery from it. Aug 14 09:41:27 nokia boots? lol Aug 14 09:41:33 They used to make wheels too Aug 14 09:41:41 Macor, check wikipedia if in doubt. Aug 14 09:41:48 do they make gym shoes? Aug 14 09:41:48 They made other things as well.. Aug 14 09:41:58 Macor: ah... I see... how can I program in Direct3D for iOS and Android? Or even window mobile? Aug 14 09:41:58 i want some nokia gym shoes heh Aug 14 09:42:02 I dunno, doubt it. Aug 14 09:42:08 Or on the web? Aug 14 09:42:51 Wizzup: that is irrelevant when you are making a game like world of warcraft heh Aug 14 09:43:11 I don't think so. We're talking about ``future'' platforms, where windows has no place Aug 14 09:43:19 and since windows is the only platform that offers d3d... Aug 14 09:43:26 like xb1? Aug 14 09:43:35 yes Aug 14 09:44:52 *rolls eyes* world of warcraft... reminds me of how devastating MMORPG can be. *recalls an anime title featuring MMORPG game*. Aug 14 09:45:48 pay x time for win all the time the same thing with changed layout only to lie ppl look other its something new... We also need ppl with migration to linux like i do... Aug 14 09:46:34 drathir, don't forget that they try to force it down people's throats. Aug 14 09:47:20 haha Aug 14 09:47:51 Lava_Croft: nokia will go down with pact of fa*e devil mean m$... Aug 14 09:47:57 yeah Aug 14 09:48:02 because MS is so different from other companies Aug 14 09:48:05 that you have to write m$ Aug 14 09:48:15 get over it, sonny Aug 14 09:48:24 all those companies are just as bad Aug 14 09:48:30 nokia isnt in any way better or worse than MS Aug 14 09:48:36 its a good match Aug 14 09:49:02 all those people crying about how MS is brining nokia down, while it was actually Finnish Nokia leaders that brought nokia down Aug 14 09:49:14 and handed it over to an ex-MS employee Aug 14 09:49:47