**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 15 03:00:00 2013 Aug 15 03:01:52 greetings. this http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB isn't too clear about current state of investigation. is host mode possible with just pluging in a device? Aug 15 03:03:27 if yes, ideas about how to power the n900 externaly while usb in host mode? Aug 15 03:10:54 Uh Aug 15 03:11:00 Use H E N Aug 15 03:11:11 At least, that's the last time I knew of it Aug 15 03:12:10 as far as powering it during that time, it should be possible... HEN kills BME, but you should be able to use a basic charging script(I know there's one by "ShadowJK" which I used a few years back); it turns on the charger "manually" Aug 15 03:12:32 Backupmenu uses it to charge, so you can always yank a copy from that if needed Aug 15 03:15:52 robbiethe1st: thanks, but that's no good. I am speculating in useing nativ debian for example. I wanted to know if its possible without HEN. the wiki entry talked about a kernel patch, is that only working in combination with HEN? Aug 15 03:16:27 I don't know Aug 15 03:16:37 I'm guessing it's part of Power Kernel Aug 15 03:16:46 robbiethe1st: ok Aug 15 03:17:02 It'd have to be. You'd have to ask someone who's worked on H E N to figure out what it calls etc Aug 15 03:18:03 robbiethe1st: I'll stay in chan for some time, maybe someone will know. Aug 15 03:18:40 DocS would be one to talk to Aug 15 03:19:40 robbiethe1st: ok, I'll ask him when online. Aug 15 03:20:22 ok Aug 15 03:29:12 freenas is awesome Aug 15 03:29:39 why is microb being such a memory hog? Aug 15 03:29:56 Kill it and restart? Aug 15 03:30:20 did that but it seems whenever i use it it really bogs down the n900 Aug 15 03:30:31 Also, I will point out my trick for microb and battery usage - SIGSTOP/SIGCONT Aug 15 03:31:30 heh. i dont usually keep it open Aug 15 04:23:45 hi all Aug 15 04:24:22 I read that n900 can use microsd 64Gb , some pepole recommanded on SanDisk 64Gb class 10, any one using samsung 64Gb with n900? Aug 15 04:31:50 hm Aug 15 04:32:09 anybody know if the sociality in devel was updated to function? Aug 15 04:32:23 i remember the one in the repo not showing the newsfeed Aug 15 04:32:29 but the one on tmo worked Aug 15 04:33:25 I don't think it has been updated Aug 15 04:33:42 but what amazes me is that nobody has volunteered to do it Aug 15 04:33:46 heh Aug 15 04:33:52 looks like all Maemo developers have left and only users remain Aug 15 04:33:57 yeah it is probably the best fb client i have seen heh Aug 15 04:34:08 well. the devs are all working to maintain cssu Aug 15 04:34:13 and the repos are in disaray Aug 15 04:34:16 array Aug 15 04:34:57 that's true Aug 15 04:35:03 im trying to find the functional deb on tmo Aug 15 04:35:21 it half worked. i think the only major issue was the "like" not working properly Aug 15 04:35:24 I would love to see pacakges imported into extras again, right now they can't survive further than extras/devel Aug 15 04:36:06 it shouldn't be too hard to fix if it's a well-coded app, which I'm sure it is since it was coded by MohammadAG if I'm not mistaken Aug 15 04:38:27 I don't think all the developers have left. It is true that I agree to an extent that the majority have left, there still are decent maintainers around. Aug 15 04:39:45 MohammadAG gave up on the project? Aug 15 04:40:09 He probably had too many other projects lined up. Don't forget in the case of OMP. Aug 15 04:41:07 hm Aug 15 04:41:32 extras has q-extras 1.0.5 :-/ Aug 15 04:41:55 I　also guess this is why sixwheeledbeast formed testing squad. In a bid to get the repository promotions happening, there were simply way too many programs sitting in extras-devel, some of which work perfectly fine but it never gets tested properly hence promoted. Aug 15 04:42:24 well. there isnt a big maemo base nowadays :) Aug 15 04:42:33 nor are there a lot of devs Aug 15 04:42:55 All these years of inactive promotion probably have also made developers/maintainers leave, simply because the lack of feedback from the community. Aug 15 04:43:29 i wonder how many active maemo users there are nowadays Aug 15 04:43:32 Yeah it isn't a big base for a few reasons, but nonetheless its good that we still have developers/maintainers willing to keep the whole project active. Aug 15 04:44:21 i guess the major concentration is with cssu Aug 15 04:44:49 MohammadAG has move to other platforms Aug 15 04:44:52 moved Aug 15 04:44:58 ah well... what can you do? Aug 15 04:44:59 heh Aug 15 04:45:00 no longer working on N900 Aug 15 04:45:09 Sc0rpius: like ios? Aug 15 04:45:11 heh Aug 15 04:46:07 nope, he actually has a Galaxy S4 now Aug 15 04:46:10 Mind you whilst the rest of the regulars are sticking around CSSU stuff, we have had a few new maemo users coming in. Not many of course but a few, maybe about a dozen. Aug 15 04:46:14 ouch Aug 15 04:46:36 or so I read in his twitter account Aug 15 04:46:37 to install q-extras 1.0.7 i would have to install a lot of deps :-/ Aug 15 04:47:03 how do you know that psycho_oreos Aug 15 04:47:22 well I'm always seeing people with 1 or 2 posts (new users) posting in TMO all the time Aug 15 04:47:29 it's weird. Aug 15 04:48:14 heh Aug 15 04:48:17 Sc0rpius, just a rough guess (looking at the new threads/posts) on TMO. Aug 15 04:48:28 I see Aug 15 04:48:35 well yeah I also have seen new users in TMO Aug 15 04:48:47 when the n900 first came out this # was booming lol Aug 15 04:48:54 had some awesome characters Aug 15 04:49:00 wish lcuk was still around Aug 15 04:49:17 They are the ones that I would say "active", there's probably others that are active but they won't say anything, just continue lurking and somewhat staying in the shadows. Aug 15 04:49:29 heh Aug 15 04:49:45 I believe the IRC logs were massive.. we had many developers.. many.. Aug 15 04:49:56 yeah a lot definitely Aug 15 04:50:09 you can see it just looking at the really high number of apps in the repositories Aug 15 04:50:36 most of those are old and not really maintained anymore Aug 15 04:50:37 There was probably hardly anytime that this channel remained quiet for so long compared to now and what it was back then. Aug 15 04:50:51 yah. this place was awesome heh Aug 15 04:50:54 Yeah many developers/maintainers moved on.. for various reasons. Aug 15 04:51:10 i would say mostly due to abandonment Aug 15 04:51:22 got it with the 770 8x0 and 900 Aug 15 04:51:28 nokia abandoned all 3 lol Aug 15 04:51:44 and left devs and users high and dry Aug 15 04:51:58 i would say because the open fad died Aug 15 04:52:42 Abandonment on various levels I suppose. Developers/maintainers wouldn't be interested in working on something that has 0 people following, its kinda like how twitter works. If there's no activity on the said project, it simply means that the use was very limited and nobody cares if it withered away. Aug 15 04:53:25 well... tbh... most open projects which lose their main company support dont last long Aug 15 04:53:53 maemo, opensolaris, to name a couple Aug 15 04:53:58 Yup, lack of funding/interest pooled on particular projects. Aug 15 04:54:13 when oracle pulled the plug on osol it pretty much became another maemo heh Aug 15 04:54:36 at least the fbsd people took up on zfs Aug 15 04:54:37 openmoko is another example. Aug 15 04:54:43 yah Aug 15 04:55:16 google probably did right with android Aug 15 04:55:36 where I work Aug 15 04:55:41 even if google pulled the plug on it ... the manufacturer companies of the devices would just keep their forks Aug 15 04:55:44 and build on them Aug 15 04:56:07 we have several Sun Fire T5240 servers, anyway those run Solaris and most of them have arrays of disk formatted with RAID-Z (ZFS) Aug 15 04:56:11 and even if the idea is good Aug 15 04:56:16 sure Aug 15 04:56:20 solaris is awesome Aug 15 04:56:22 they are EXTREMELY SLOW compared to UFS so ZFS is a NO-NO for me! Aug 15 04:56:27 but it is also expensive Aug 15 04:56:34 it *was* expensive Aug 15 04:56:37 now it doesn't even exist :P Aug 15 04:56:43 Android I believe worked quite differently. It really started off as a software which began infiltrating on various embedded hardwares. Unlike maemo where the software is tied to the hardware, hence it became hardware-specific. Aug 15 04:56:45 really?? Aug 15 04:56:54 i thought oracle still sold solaris Aug 15 04:57:26 they also update zfs all the time for paying solaris customers :) Aug 15 04:57:34 you can get Solaris 11 yeah Aug 15 04:57:46 newer versions of zfs have dataset encrytion Aug 15 04:57:48 and still some servers Aug 15 04:57:54 amongst other awesome new features Aug 15 04:57:58 but nobody buys them anymore Aug 15 04:58:00 There has been various attempts in the past to free maemo from being tied to its own platform, but there were mixed results and if you look at their support channels now, they are also dying/dead. Aug 15 04:58:03 you really cant beat zfs Aug 15 04:58:27 Sc0rpius: i dont know Aug 15 04:58:39 im sure oracle still kicks ass with the db business Aug 15 04:58:49 no doubt about it Aug 15 04:59:04 but I meant the Sun Servers Aug 15 04:59:05 and solaris + zfs + orcle cant be beaten Aug 15 04:59:12 Oracle runs in Linux now Aug 15 04:59:22 it didn't when I first met the DB Aug 15 04:59:29 heh Aug 15 04:59:30 people is moving to cloud fast Aug 15 04:59:39 Datacenters are getting empty Aug 15 04:59:44 they ran linux. im sure they push solaris nowadays Aug 15 04:59:53 since gpl and zfs licenses conflict Aug 15 05:00:12 which is why zfs has to use fuse or some patch manually installed Aug 15 05:00:16 in linux Aug 15 05:00:22 I'm sure oracle wouldn't be dumb to put "all their eggs in one basket". It's a common business/investment strategy. Aug 15 05:00:27 actually Oracle has its own filesystem so if you want the best performance you just let Oracle access to the raw disks Aug 15 05:00:45 well.. oracle was supporting btrfs a LOT Aug 15 05:00:52 then they bought sun Aug 15 05:00:57 you can still have datafiles in your own fs like before of course Aug 15 05:00:58 and pulled their support lol Aug 15 05:01:09 Oracle is great Aug 15 05:01:12 zfs was lightyears ahead of btrfs Aug 15 05:01:19 I have seen it doing amazing things Aug 15 05:01:26 but still MySQL is enough for most people Aug 15 05:01:27 hehe Aug 15 05:01:44 im waiting on oracle to can mysql too Aug 15 05:01:44 Don't forget too about PostgreSQL. Aug 15 05:01:47 MySQL is from Oracle too nowadays! Aug 15 05:01:52 yah Aug 15 05:02:01 most people are swapping to mariadb Aug 15 05:02:03 SQL has to die Aug 15 05:02:10 because of oracle Aug 15 05:02:12 NoSQL stuff will become mainstream Aug 15 05:02:17 it is just a matter of time Aug 15 05:02:32 before oravcle ruins mysql as well :) Aug 15 05:02:46 they have already been leaning that way Aug 15 05:03:16 but i have to admit. when opensolaris was around.. it was absolutely awesome heh Aug 15 05:03:18 you look like you know your stuff Aug 15 05:03:19 i loved it Aug 15 05:03:23 now I wonder why don't you fix sociality :P Aug 15 05:03:32 im not a dev ;) Aug 15 05:03:38 otherwise i would Aug 15 05:04:24 installing sociality would require like 100 pkgs from devel Aug 15 05:04:48 screw that. i learned my lesson last time dealing with the devel repo Aug 15 05:04:59 so you don't even have devel repo configured? Aug 15 05:05:01 i will just use the mobile page in microb heh Aug 15 05:05:06 that's a big mistake! Aug 15 05:05:09 no. i turned it on Aug 15 05:05:18 to see what q-extras required Aug 15 05:05:36 sociality depends on q-extras 1.0.7+ Aug 15 05:05:40 Sc0rpius: what is "manually importing packages to extras-testing" supposed to mean? Aug 15 05:05:51 it means I clicked on import package and nothing happened Aug 15 05:05:59 and my package says "package imported" Aug 15 05:06:06 weird. which package? Aug 15 05:06:11 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/yappari/1.0.37/ Aug 15 05:07:00 If you looked at the description of Q-Extras... "Library of helpful Qt-based components." wouldn't that be somewhat obvious that it would install a whole bunch of libqt* stuff? :) Aug 15 05:07:00 when did you do that? Aug 15 05:07:05 Sc0rpius: ^^^ Aug 15 05:07:17 like three weeks ago :) Aug 15 05:07:25 aah :) Aug 15 05:07:42 I guess I have to import new packages Aug 15 05:07:48 no Aug 15 05:07:56 wait a minute Aug 15 05:08:28 Sc0rpius: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1364191&postcount=86 Aug 15 05:08:39 and http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1364305&postcount=89 Aug 15 05:08:46 ohh Aug 15 05:09:17 and how those new packages have reached extras-testing then? Aug 15 05:09:40 read the second post ;) Aug 15 05:09:43 Sc0rpius: promote http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/yappari/1.0.37/ Aug 15 05:09:51 !seen Pali Aug 15 05:09:57 ~seen Pali Aug 15 05:10:00 pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 13h 2m 42s ago, saying: 'Sourav: just charge battery to FULL, then discharge it until bme replacement will shutdown phone and then charge battery again'. Aug 15 05:11:39 * Sc0rpius clicks on Promote package Aug 15 05:11:48 Sc0rpius: :nod: Aug 15 05:12:16 now it says promoted aahh I've even forgotten what it used to say Aug 15 05:12:34 it will like 1 hour to reach -testing Aug 15 05:12:38 well now I wait cron jobs to copy to extras/testing I guess and then I have to tell my testers to test Aug 15 05:12:45 yep Aug 15 05:14:03 Macer I wonder what q-extras is, all I know is that it is another project of MohammadAG Aug 15 05:15:05 Sc0rpius: hmm, are you sure you've promoted yappari back then? as I see "promote package" enabled for armel package too ;) Aug 15 05:15:14 (don't click it) Aug 15 05:15:45 then I promoted the wrong package! (I won't) Aug 15 05:15:58 but the wiki says promote the armel and the i386 will be promoted automatically (or something) Aug 15 05:16:03 yep Aug 15 05:16:28 now you've promotoed 386, armel will follow shortly Aug 15 05:16:42 ok Aug 15 05:16:45 the point is: Aug 15 05:16:47 it means I clicked on import package and nothing happened Aug 15 05:17:02 I guess I meant "promote package" Aug 15 05:17:08 got that Aug 15 05:17:13 but it was never promoted to the extras/testing Aug 15 05:17:29 was it an older version? Aug 15 05:17:34 could be... Aug 15 05:17:47 ok, it makes sense then Aug 15 05:28:13 Sc0rpius: the last promotion I see is on 2013-05-17, I guess you've given up after that :D Aug 15 05:28:38 probably :) Aug 15 05:28:45 http://maemo.org/packages/view/yappari/ Aug 15 05:28:48 I thought it was more recent though Aug 15 05:29:01 not according to package history Aug 15 05:29:08 *the package Aug 15 05:29:32 I see Aug 15 05:29:58 * freemangordon wonders why marxian is not promoting cutetube to -testing Aug 15 05:30:43 Wasn't it already in extras-testing? Aug 15 05:30:45 he knows it is working again? Aug 15 05:30:52 most people just gave up Aug 15 05:31:27 Sc0rpius: I left a not on cutetube thread, alond with a bug report. maybe he is on holiday :) Aug 15 05:31:36 maybe Aug 15 05:31:40 s/not/note/ Aug 15 05:31:41 freemangordon meant: Sc0rpius: I left a note on cutetube thread, alond with a bug report. maybe he is on holiday :) Aug 15 05:32:14 psycho_oreos: the version in -testing is ancient Aug 15 05:32:24 1.4.0 Aug 15 05:32:32 the version in -devel is 1.7.9 Aug 15 05:32:46 Ahh makes sense.. that would be the same ordeal as qmltube or (cutetube-qml). Aug 15 05:33:20 * psycho_oreos wishes now he hasn't given that older cutetube a thumbs up... Aug 15 05:36:58 * psycho_oreos takes a peek at yappari. Aug 15 05:43:52 Sc0rpius: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/yappari/1.0.37/ Aug 15 05:43:55 :) Aug 15 05:43:58 :) Aug 15 05:44:12 that was fast Aug 15 07:10:32 looks interesting talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1367012#post1367012 Aug 15 07:35:42 Hah!, never released in Japan or Australia ... and worst console ever vote in 2007. Aug 15 07:36:20 rather not vote, it was named. Even worse. Aug 15 09:39:44 Pali: update to your bme breaks Docs calibration script? Aug 15 09:43:48 Lava_Croft: what Docs using? Aug 15 09:44:32 when you are using bme replacement it is not possible to read/write bq i2c registers Aug 15 09:44:36 via i2c-get Aug 15 09:44:58 but you can use i2cget with flag '-f' Aug 15 09:45:18 mom, let me move to desktop Aug 15 09:45:41 there Aug 15 09:46:50 Pali: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1247595#post1247595 Aug 15 09:47:18 I used that the last time to calibrate, but since update it doesnt report my 1500+ mah anymore Aug 15 09:47:36 running the script doesnt work, now i know due to not being able to use i2c-get :) Aug 15 09:47:47 no it using i2cset Aug 15 09:47:53 oh Aug 15 09:48:00 you should rewrite it to use echo ... > /sys/... Aug 15 09:48:13 Lava_Croft: kerio has something Aug 15 09:48:23 i what Aug 15 09:48:25 * Lava_Croft pokes kerio with a bird's feather Aug 15 09:48:28 hey that was fast Aug 15 09:48:40 you have an 'updated' battery calib script? Aug 15 09:48:51 this stuff needs a central point Aug 15 09:51:59 so now what Aug 15 09:52:52 Pali: what exactly do i need to rewrite and how? Aug 15 09:53:04 I need to have a clue! :) Aug 15 09:53:12 i2cget/i2cset Aug 15 09:53:32 you cannot read/write i2c bq27200 and bq24151 registers directly Aug 15 09:54:05 you need to use /sys/class/power_supply/.... /registers file for that Aug 15 09:54:24 this might be slightly above my head / technical skill Aug 15 09:54:24 kerio: you have some calibration script which working with bme_replacment Aug 15 09:54:37 yeah Aug 15 09:54:39 kerio: and Lava_Croft asking for it Aug 15 09:54:52 http://acehack.de/~kerio/calibratebq27200 Aug 15 09:54:55 or something Aug 15 09:55:00 Lava_Croft ^^^ Aug 15 09:55:07 thats both scripts combined in a single one? Aug 15 09:55:20 ah, it looks like shadow's script Aug 15 09:55:26 or not Aug 15 09:55:30 lets just see how it works Aug 15 09:55:39 Thanks! Aug 15 09:55:58 haha Aug 15 09:56:12 just checking, my battery is at 1350/1262 mah Aug 15 09:56:19 its fuller than full Aug 15 10:00:08 kerio: thats a nice clean script Aug 15 10:04:37 Lava_Croft: that's a separate issue though Aug 15 10:05:10 one that wasnt there before Aug 15 10:05:11 modprobe -r rx51-battery Aug 15 10:05:14 at least not on my end Aug 15 10:05:24 latest version of bmerep did that Aug 15 10:06:16 hey what Aug 15 10:06:23 fuck me, that worked Aug 15 10:07:00 why thank you Aug 15 10:19:48 oi, FAT-fs (sdb1): error, fat_free_clusters: deleting FAT entry beyond EOF Aug 15 10:22:28 neato Aug 15 10:23:23 !rc stth Aug 15 10:23:27 whoops Aug 15 10:23:37 everything still seems to be there after fsck... Aug 15 10:27:55 Iridos, I think that's what you get for dirty vfat filesystems. Aug 15 10:29:17 first time that happened, though... and not always unmounting over the last years. I just seem to have had a bit of an unlucky hand with filesystems lately Aug 15 11:24:57 hey help me with easy chroot please!! there isno icon of it, how do i use it to mount and chroot into some partition Aug 15 11:25:25 Easy Debian Chroot has Icons Aug 15 11:26:03 nope just easy chroot! Aug 15 11:26:22 it should have an icon! its not showingin systems! Aug 15 11:26:26 http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian Aug 15 11:27:15 not easy debian !! easy-chroot just! Aug 15 11:28:41 https://elektranox.org/n900/index.html Aug 15 11:28:47 native debian. Aug 15 11:30:12 It works, Pyscho, it booted Aug 15 11:30:56 Now Im gonna let it charge for a while before I take out the battery to put in my sim Aug 15 11:31:04 Lithdk: \o/ Aug 15 11:31:07 WIN Aug 15 11:31:12 and lava, yes it works :D Aug 15 11:31:16 hooray Aug 15 11:31:19 time to break it again Aug 15 11:31:21 :) Aug 15 11:31:25 Super win, and everything _seems_ like maemo5 Aug 15 11:31:37 you cant really fake that with java crap i guess Aug 15 11:31:40 break it and make it. Aug 15 11:31:45 yeah lol ^^ I also have to order some data subscription with my phone plan now Aug 15 11:32:16 5g data/month for around 10 us dollars fair? Aug 15 11:32:32 seems fair enough Aug 15 11:32:40 you dont use 5gb a month on mobile data anyway Aug 15 11:32:53 Lithdk: sure Aug 15 11:32:55 i barely get to 1gb Aug 15 11:33:01 Lithdk, just been catching up on forum threads lol. Even better that you are here. Aug 15 11:33:06 I like to watch movies and youtube and shit Aug 15 11:33:10 i pay 5eur for 100mb/day Aug 15 11:33:16 which is kind of a pain Aug 15 11:33:23 get cutetube Lithdk, cutetube from extras-devel. Aug 15 11:33:25 Yeah it's awesome man :D Aug 15 11:33:32 i pay 45 a month because i got a galaxy nexus with it Aug 15 11:33:35 that i sold very quickly Aug 15 11:33:38 Thank you guys so much for all your help yesterday Aug 15 11:33:56 A real N900 should allow you to add whatever repository you want, refresh the dpkg list and install new programs. Aug 15 11:33:57 cutetube, got it :P just need to get my data plan set up Aug 15 11:34:13 If you have WLAN you can try and set it up through that. Aug 15 11:34:24 also I dont have my sim in it yet, Im using the battery that came with the phone so I want it to charge up Aug 15 11:34:41 Also, USB networking.. allows your N900 to use your PC for internet connection (or vice-versa). Aug 15 11:34:42 I only got ethernet :P no router Aug 15 11:34:44 don't put the sim in yet Aug 15 11:34:46 ~cherry Aug 15 11:34:50 mmh Aug 15 11:34:53 infobot: dude Aug 15 11:34:54 well, dude is Be most excellent to each other! Also the moniker of Jim Dixon. Aug 15 11:34:59 fine Aug 15 11:35:08 lol Aug 15 11:35:08 touch /home/user/.cherry_state Aug 15 11:35:18 Lithdk: uninstall cherry and/or install notmynokia and/or what Lava_Croft said first Aug 15 11:35:18 before entering sim Aug 15 11:35:22 We'll give it an hour to charge. But find out what you want me to test on this and make a list, if it's really a functional 100% n900 people on the forums wanna know Aug 15 11:35:27 or else nokia sends you a fucking SMS Aug 15 11:35:33 that will enrage you Aug 15 11:35:39 because you never asked for a goddamn sms Aug 15 11:35:51 haha Aug 15 11:36:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Aug 15 11:36:13 delete .cherry_state? Aug 15 11:36:16 touch it Aug 15 11:36:25 if it exists, you dont get the sms Aug 15 11:36:41 I'm surprised nokia will still to do that to new owners of N900. They've stopped supporting in a big way but they're still willing to send SMS to new N900 owners? heh. Aug 15 11:36:46 psycho_oreos: n9 too Aug 15 11:36:55 TIPS AND OFFERS Aug 15 11:37:35 Lava_Croft, lol an "unwanted child" still gets some form of care and attention even though it was still "unwanted". Aug 15 11:37:37 Lithdk: that link contains a host of valuable unfo Aug 15 11:37:39 info* Aug 15 11:37:53 it's not like they're in a position to change how it works in existing n900s Aug 15 11:38:07 and it not like it in any way costs nokia actual money Aug 15 11:38:09 sending those 10 sms' Aug 15 11:38:11 Alright Imma read through it Aug 15 11:38:22 Lithdk: also read up on CSSU Aug 15 11:38:31 the 'community update' for maemo5 Aug 15 11:40:11 No but the cherry state I thought can be shut down remotely. I guess they can't be stuffed doing that but can be stuffed shutting down *.maemo.org and developer.nokia.com (or whatever that site was). Aug 15 11:40:38 which makes total sense Aug 15 11:40:42 why would nokia keep those running Aug 15 11:40:53 ls -l .cherry_state reports "no such file or directory Aug 15 11:40:58 touch it Aug 15 11:41:04 i pasted the command Aug 15 11:41:38 I　meant if nokia could be bothered shutting down other things but not that cherry crap, its something that is quite amusing no? Aug 15 11:42:05 touched it Aug 15 11:42:08 Lithdk, also get cpumem-applet, its a very nifty tool. Aug 15 11:42:44 yup Aug 15 11:43:03 psycho_oreos: there's nothing to shut down Aug 15 11:43:08 http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo Aug 15 11:43:10 also handy Aug 15 11:43:29 leaving things as they are is doing nothing Aug 15 11:43:30 does it take conky as is or is there some modified version? Aug 15 11:43:30 shutting it down would require effort Aug 15 11:43:37 kerio, so the cherry state and nokia sending you SMS is all done locally? Aug 15 11:43:57 no, *you* send an sms Aug 15 11:44:01 which is the problem Aug 15 11:44:09 Lithdk: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_The_Perfect_Setup Aug 15 11:44:11 and there Aug 15 11:44:16 all contain bits and pieces of handy info Aug 15 11:44:40 I meant afterwards, after sending SMS. They could have shut it down. Aug 15 11:44:54 Have like a million links now ^^ Aug 15 11:45:00 "the perfect setup" involves disabling every repo in ham, setting up some repos, and then uninstalling LOTS of stuff Aug 15 11:45:08 psycho_oreos: i doubt anything happens afterwards Aug 15 11:45:33 Im gonna go get a burger to celebrate, will be back quickly. Aug 15 11:45:33 Lithdk, you can use standard conky but there's a nicer conky setup in the repos. Aug 15 11:45:47 yeah, 'all features enabled' orso Aug 15 11:45:49 you want that conki Aug 15 11:45:54 Yeah but its just a .conkyrc file ? Aug 15 11:45:55 its in the description Aug 15 11:45:57 no Aug 15 11:46:05 its a full conky install + conf Aug 15 11:46:07 kerio, oh I thought it might still have been active. Aug 15 11:46:24 yup ^　(as Lava_Croft said). Aug 15 11:46:28 oh cool, gonna look at that after I get my burger. 10 minutes guys Aug 15 11:46:31 Lithdk: http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7046/6968632623_9e54180908.jpg Aug 15 11:46:32 like that Aug 15 11:46:40 random google image Aug 15 11:47:19 You got to like the time that screenshot was taken :> Aug 15 11:47:44 :) Aug 15 11:48:52 anyway, extras-devel-light is a lifesaver when you're on limited traffic/bandwidth Aug 15 11:52:53 I hear it has DiffIndex. Then again, it seems like as if the real repository(.maemo.org) needs something like that as well. Aug 15 11:53:19 extras-devel-light is always a lifesaver/timesaver Aug 15 11:53:31 nothing more annoying than having to wait for HAM because extras-devel is full of junk Aug 15 11:54:00 apt-get update taking tens of kb instead of 10MB *is* a gamechanger Aug 15 11:56:09 that's a nice conky Aug 15 11:56:41 That's what you get when you use the conky that's provided in the repos (or similar). Aug 15 12:06:21 I guess its the real N900 that you got, I personally have never seen any fake N900 that is capable of running maemo let alone properly. Though if you want to double check and to verify that it is the real N900. There maybe are few tools here and there that you can try and see if it works. Aug 15 12:06:27 bah she cant add a data plan to my current subscription and I have to wait for a new sim, what a bitch Aug 15 12:06:35 aw Aug 15 12:06:47 but as you said I could leech off of my stationaries internet? Aug 15 12:07:06 stationaries? Aug 15 12:07:13 's * sry. PC Aug 15 12:07:13 stationary Aug 15 12:07:25 Yes, via USB networking Aug 15 12:07:28 Im from Denmark, english isnt my native language Aug 15 12:07:29 ~usbnetwork Aug 15 12:07:41 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Aug 15 12:08:00 *nods* I didn't want to make a mistake in misunderstanding. (English isn't really my native language either :)) Aug 15 12:08:09 same here Aug 15 12:08:43 Though I guess all of us just use English as a basis form of communication :) Aug 15 12:08:52 should get rid of all other languages Aug 15 12:09:13 That'll piss translators off lol. Aug 15 12:09:18 indeed Aug 15 12:09:40 my brother is freelance translator:) Aug 15 12:10:12 Remove daylight savings and change all languages to English Aug 15 12:10:56 Lithdk, for reference I have USB networking working very well with my setup. One of my N900 is using my PC's wifi to connect to my router. Of course I could just get N900 to connect to my router without really needing a PC or whatever, but at least this way I can see bandwidth going in and out from my PC. Aug 15 12:11:10 That'll make him redundant lol Lava_Croft Aug 15 12:11:58 I should just get a wireless router Aug 15 12:12:34 USB networking is so nifty in various ways, you can even make it do the opposite, have PC using N900's wifi to connect to the router. Though it heavily relies on your microUSB port. Aug 15 12:13:09 Also speaking of USB port, you should try and get that issue addressed (just in case, ideally before it breaks). Aug 15 12:13:40 60% charged. do I dare take out the battery to put in sim? Aug 15 12:14:13 I'd say 60% charged should be more than enough for bootup. It's also enough to go into flashing as well. Aug 15 12:14:58 Do remember to turn off your N900 first, and wait for at least 15 seconds before taking the battery out. Un-graceful shutdowns will lead to stale NFS handles and requiring fsck. Aug 15 12:15:31 Yeah I read about that Aug 15 12:16:47 phew, it's booting up Aug 15 12:17:00 If I remember correctly, after holding power button down and watching the white LED slowly diminishing. When the white LED doesn't become visible, you may take the battery out (if you're in a hurry) but its not recommended as the device will try to enter into ACT_DEAD state. Aug 15 12:17:25 s/deminish/fad/ Aug 15 12:17:25 psycho_oreos meant: If I remember correctly, after holding power button down and watching the white LED slowly diminishing. When the white LED doesn't become visible, you may take the battery out (if you're in a hurry) but its not recommended as the device will try to enter ... Aug 15 12:17:30 to do usb networking, ignore that crap actually Aug 15 12:17:39 install libicd-network-usb Aug 15 12:17:42 s/diminish/fad/ Aug 15 12:17:44 psycho_oreos meant: If I remember correctly, after holding power button down and watching the white LED slowly fading. When the white LED doesn't become visible, you may take the battery out (if you're in a hurry) but its not recommended as the device will try to enter into ... Aug 15 12:18:13 o.O so w.m.o. needs updating. Aug 15 12:18:13 and lost all my contacts :P Aug 15 12:18:31 You should be able to import them from SIM or via bluetooth. Aug 15 12:18:35 connect in pc-suite mode, enable forwarding with dhcp on the pc side, and then connect via Internet Connection dialog Aug 15 12:19:02 That's been made redundant with libicd-network-usb kerio? Aug 15 12:19:22 got one contact on my sim card :P "Dad" Aug 15 12:19:36 haha :D one down, many to go. Aug 15 12:20:09 Like I said you can sync contacts via bluetooth. If your old phone was a nokia you can setup sync accounts and do it through there. Aug 15 12:20:23 My old phone doesnt have bluetooth Aug 15 12:20:36 Ouch :/ Aug 15 12:20:43 I dont even think it has infrared :P This is my first smartphone Aug 15 12:20:59 aren't they on your sim? Aug 15 12:21:05 I　guess the only way is to make your old phone dump all your contacts to SIM, then migrate that SIM to your N900 and import (again) from there. Aug 15 12:21:05 you can probably have the phone export them to the sim card Aug 15 12:21:08 I was one of those "Yeah okay but I only need to call and text people-duh" Aug 15 12:21:12 and then import from sim on n900 Aug 15 12:21:18 I never had any luck with the bluetooth sync Aug 15 12:21:20 even with two nokia phones Aug 15 12:21:46 Weird, mine was almost perfect. This was awhile ago with n95-1 and N900. Aug 15 12:21:51 I dont really need the contacts, had a lot of people I needed to clean out anyway Aug 15 12:21:56 mine was an old nokia phone Aug 15 12:22:08 Question is how old lol. Aug 15 12:22:15 Mine would have been circa 2005 or so. Aug 15 12:22:41 When was 3510i released? Aug 15 12:22:53 Lithdk, or you can clean them out on your old phone, then export the rest to your SIM　card and then migrate that SIM card to your N900. Aug 15 12:23:09 nfi lol, sometime in 1990ish? Aug 15 12:23:35 nfi obviously meaning "no faintest idea" Aug 15 12:23:46 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_3510i-344.php ---> 2002 it states. Aug 15 12:24:10 Rather I　like to think of it as no **********　idea or no fudging idea :D Aug 15 12:24:53 haha Aug 15 12:24:57 Holy cow, looking at the specs of 3510i and comparing it with N900, its a huge jump. Aug 15 12:25:16 Indeed it is. But 3510i was their first color phone :P it was amazing at the time Aug 15 12:25:48 The only other connectivity available was GPRS. I can't imagine any fun sending contacts using that (let alone if it would ever work easily or not). Aug 15 12:26:00 The keyword here was "was" :) Aug 15 12:26:19 Hehe Aug 15 12:28:02 I think around 2002 I had some Ericsson phone. Can't quite remember the model name of it. Aug 15 12:28:26 Why do people password protect their wireless, makes me hate my neighbours Aug 15 12:29:42 Impersonation, abuse, etc. Aug 15 12:30:00 some countries have laws that state if people use your wifi for criminal acts, you are responsible Aug 15 12:30:02 I password protect mine as well.. and its also hidden. Aug 15 12:30:04 (read: germany) Aug 15 12:30:17 How about neighbourly love and compasion? Aug 15 12:30:22 Dang that's crazy Aug 15 12:30:24 ask them? Aug 15 12:30:45 Yeah the best way is to ask, if you don't have your own. Aug 15 12:30:48 So if someone uses aircrack and use your wireless for criminal acts you are responsible? Aug 15 12:30:56 thats different Aug 15 12:32:13 It'll be hard to track though. You (as the owner) could simply say that you were not responsible for criminal acts and that you have taken appropriate steps to ensure your network is secured. They'll just need to try and triangulate the culprit. Aug 15 12:33:36 Also there's another tool, aircrack-ng would be handy for one way. There's another one that specifically deals with the vulnerable WPS issue. Aug 15 12:36:57 So apperantly I can use the internet without a dataplan :s I just clicked on the "facebook"-icon and it connected me Aug 15 12:37:05 * psycho_oreos also recalls Germany is also very strict on security professionals. There was an article which mentioned,"Hacking ist verboten". In English that would roughly be translated that hacking is forbidden. Aug 15 12:37:09 desktop version of facebook though Aug 15 12:37:41 I know, Im from Denmark. Forced to learn german in school Aug 15 12:38:11 Your provider may allow you to use it but becareful, they may try and charge you because you did not want to have dataplan or whatever. Aug 15 12:38:45 Ahh, that's somewhat one of the cool things of living in EU I suppose, people from there are virtually all polyglots. Aug 15 12:38:50 Well from what I heard trying to set up the data plan on the phone Im getting a new sim and a new account on their website which means I need to use the 50$ I got on my old account pretty quickly Aug 15 12:39:32 Yeah. Everyone from the north understands german, if they understand german they also understand a little dutch, if they are from scandinavia they understand danish, swedish and norwegian and everybody speaks english Aug 15 12:40:11 i'm not really sure "everyone from the north" understands german... Aug 15 12:40:14 I'm not sure with how your provider works, but where I live (in Australia) telco companies would love to charge you for whatever you access and that it was not covered on your plan. Aug 15 12:41:02 Oh this is not a monthly bill company. I set up an account, pay a fee for that and then I choose a plan (or no plan) and I just put up money whenever my account reaches 0 Aug 15 12:41:28 So it sort of works like a pre-paid SIM I guess. Aug 15 12:41:40 My brother uses his phone so little he doesnt use any plan and basically pays less than 2$ a month, so he just put up 500$ and he's good for a while Aug 15 12:41:43 yeah Aug 15 12:42:34 That's not too bad, then I guess in your case you have $50 to use on whatever you want, maybe even internet from your N900. Aug 15 12:42:56 indeed. So Im gonna get rootsh and cssu. I just go to the maemo.org and click on the install buttons, yeah? Aug 15 12:44:03 Did you flash your N900 yet? if not maybe you can take a peek around what the seller may have left (if you want) and then flash it before installing CSSU. This way you start with virtually a "clean slate". Aug 15 12:44:24 yeah but it seems like he has left nothing. Aug 15 12:44:38 Also I had to set locale, time and date so I dont think he did anything to it tbh Aug 15 12:44:59 I've looked around. Want me to ls something? Aug 15 12:45:15 Then I guess you could use mass storage mode, and on PC, dd the N900's exported partition and dump it on PC. Run filecarver or something >:D Aug 15 12:46:05 Of course you'll need 29+GB of space. 29GB for the dd'ed image and filecarver in case anything crops up. Aug 15 12:46:22 doesnt DD delete everything in a partition? Aug 15 12:46:41 Yes, it all depends on how you use it. There's an in file and a out file. Aug 15 12:47:51 Say if you "dd if=/dev/sdb of=~/dump.img", it'll dump the contents of /dev/sdb into ~/dump.img. If you "dd if=~/dump.img of=/dev/sdb" it will do the opposite. Aug 15 12:48:19 The in and out file makes the judgement as to what dd ultimately does. Aug 15 12:48:38 Arh Aug 15 12:49:39 /dev/zero = zero output.. do that with dd and you'll be dumping zeroes, /dev/urandom = random (entropy) output.. do that with dd and you'll be dumping random stuff. Aug 15 12:50:21 Nice handy devfs stuff, handy for many things. Aug 15 12:50:45 /dev/null -> null output or nothing.. goes into bottomless "black hole". Aug 15 12:50:51 sudo gainroot "enable RD mode if you want to break your device" ? Aug 15 12:51:16 Yeah that's one way of enabling root access, but the other is installing rootsh iinm. Aug 15 12:51:57 yeah but what is RD mode? Aug 15 12:52:09 I wouldn't recommend enabling R&D mode for everyday use, but if you want to experiment or if you (like me) want to see fancy stuff, you can leave R&D mode on. Aug 15 12:52:55 Research and Development, makes the system be more verbose. From using keyboard LED lights to tell you which part of the PCB chipset is busy or not and more verbose output at nokia boot screen. Aug 15 12:53:28 arh Aug 15 12:53:31 did anyone try airbase-ng yet? Aug 15 12:53:31 It has to be enabled via flasher (and iinm linux only). Aug 15 12:53:56 kerio, I believe someone did when trying to get AP mode on N900. Aug 15 12:54:25 I can't quite remember the handle though. Aug 15 12:54:47 the rootsh app on maemo.org says it doesnt need R&D mode, and I think I've installed it Aug 15 12:55:28 If you have installed it, then simply typing "root" into X-Terminal should give you root prompt. Though yes you don't need R&D mode enabled to install rootsh, hence that's what rootsh is for. Aug 15 12:56:00 Err for enabling root console, not for enabling R&D mode. Aug 15 12:56:04 Ooooh. I thought clicking the "install" on maemo.org via the webbrowser was enough to install the program Aug 15 12:56:14 appears I have to go into the application manager Aug 15 12:56:43 Yup, and normally in Application Manager will tell you that you have chosen to install foo. Aug 15 12:57:09 Application Manager is also known as HAM (which is short for Hildon Application Manager). Aug 15 12:57:37 So have to I install cssu? I clicked the install button on maemo.org for the stable same way I did with roothsh, so it's probably not installed Aug 15 12:57:59 how do I* Aug 15 12:58:50 I think installing CSSU from the website requires you in HAM to enable that repository. Once you accept it, you will need to tell HAM to update (though HAM should tell you if there's newer updates available by then). Aug 15 12:59:37 * psycho_oreos grabs his N900 to check exactly what Install does for rootsh from website. Aug 15 13:00:07 Things are so much simpler with apt-get Aug 15 13:01:02 Yeah you could also do it with apt-get for packages like rootsh. Not for CSSU though as it has its own repository, and its own list of files that HAM needs to install. Besides HAM is the recommended way of updating CSSU. Aug 15 13:01:30 psycho_oreos: rootsh is an awful package Aug 15 13:01:43 if it was uploaded nowadays, the maintainer would be shot Aug 15 13:01:53 kerio, so is there a better alternative? :) Aug 15 13:02:15 ...alternative for what? Aug 15 13:02:20 having root? Aug 15 13:02:28 installing openssh will make you add a password Aug 15 13:02:28 rootsh of course. Or root console. Aug 15 13:02:30 for root Aug 15 13:02:42 at that point you can just ssh root@localhost Aug 15 13:02:47 Hmm true. Aug 15 13:02:52 then set your sudoers file maybe Aug 15 13:03:37 *a* sudoers file Aug 15 13:03:42 in /etc/sudoers.d/ Aug 15 13:03:47 then run update-sudoers Aug 15 13:04:22 What if the user doesn't want openSSH? :D Aug 15 13:04:56 mmh Aug 15 13:05:24 I can agree rootsh is an ugly hack, no doubt but it doesn't have that extra bulk. Aug 15 13:06:39 I also recall catorise-plus requires rootsh package. It depends on root binary. Aug 15 13:06:51 that's a whole another bag of bullshit Aug 15 13:07:09 piping commands to a shellscript is ***NOT*** how you're supposed to do stuff Aug 15 13:07:28 add your own file in sudoers.d for the commands you need to run as root Aug 15 13:07:49 don't rely on a security flaw introduced by a badly-packaged piece of crap Aug 15 13:08:29 /bin/busybox sh -c "echo /opt/catorise/catorise|root" Aug 15 13:08:45 Heh, nonetheless there's no new maintainers for catoriseplus. Aug 15 13:09:11 found a video guide on installing CSSU Aug 15 13:10:40 exclamation marks flashing next to battery? Aug 15 13:11:11 I think you are referring to those yellow coloured square box with exclamation mark inside? Aug 15 13:11:57 yeah Aug 15 13:12:02 * jaska giggles at piping commands to root Aug 15 13:12:12 I think it's just there when running commands Aug 15 13:12:48 besides, rootsh violates maemo invariants Aug 15 13:12:54 That's to tell you there's updates available. You can see it from the drop down menu. Once you click on the new updates in the drop down menu it'll launch Application Manager which will then prompt you the rest of update process. Aug 15 13:13:10 aha Aug 15 13:13:14 namely, that sudo gainroot will check for rdmode Aug 15 13:13:37 * psycho_oreos doesn't know what other programs also pipes command to root. catoriseplus is one of them already Aug 15 13:20:35 opera mobile from maemo vs the standard web browser that ships with the phone Aug 15 13:38:28 is my impression accurate, that on Maemo any package you install can do basically anything it likes on the system by just being root, without even having to inform the user? i guess if so, that's "open" but very different from how other mobile OS handle security... Aug 15 13:51:54 because having to click through a dialog window is security Aug 15 13:52:45 LjL-Alps: basically Aug 15 13:53:09 Maemo security is generally in principle that the apps are usually open source Aug 15 13:54:01 It is unfortunately not adequate for mass distribution - without at least employing someone to actually vet the code. Aug 15 13:54:32 There weren't any major problems basically as nobody tried to do anything very naughty. Aug 15 14:05:14 :P This phone is awesome Aug 15 14:06:24 Been using it as a remote for my TV now, from 3 meters distance. Considering going down to a TV store and go crazy Aug 15 14:07:04 welcome to the 90s! Aug 15 14:07:08 when you had watches with IR Aug 15 14:07:31 :P I didn't have that in the 90's Aug 15 14:08:27 although there seems to be a problem with the camera after I installed MBarcode. If I dont open the camera in the right sequence it wont focus Aug 15 14:09:09 http://maemo.org/packages/view/cl-launcher/ Aug 15 14:09:10 i use that Aug 15 14:09:18 open lens hatch -> select app to use Aug 15 14:09:33 n900 has two-state camera button Aug 15 14:09:38 half-press it to focus Aug 15 14:10:33 Knew about the two-state button but nifty app there Aug 15 14:11:06 kerio: hi Aug 15 14:11:20 'lo Aug 15 14:11:21 pali Aug 15 14:11:24 oh Aug 15 14:11:27 not online Aug 15 14:13:04 kerio I did battery calbration as told by Pali but now everytime it displays 50% even when I charged 5 min ago Aug 15 14:13:13 \_o_/ Aug 15 14:13:22 let's try something Aug 15 14:13:30 sudo modprobe -r rx51-battery Aug 15 14:13:31 ya Aug 15 14:15:03 did it Aug 15 14:18:09 hi Pali Aug 15 14:18:18 i was looking for you. Aug 15 14:18:53 hi Aug 15 14:19:17 can you check your pm Pali Aug 15 14:20:24 ~seen brkn Aug 15 14:20:27 brkn <~brkn@HSI-KBW-149-172-254-42.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 80d 18h 19m 48s ago, saying: 'ping received xD'. Aug 15 14:20:38 ~seen brkn_away Aug 15 14:20:38 Pali: i haven't seen 'brkn_away' Aug 15 14:20:43 ~seen brknaway Aug 15 14:20:44 Pali: i haven't seen 'brknaway' Aug 15 14:22:38 hah, second modprobe -r rx51-battery of the day Aug 15 14:22:53 yep Aug 15 14:27:59 what do I need to do to build stuff for N900? I want to install mpd on it Aug 15 14:31:56 Lava_Croft, Android's security isn't stellar if that's what you're referring to, but at least, given apps can't really have root easily, you can't, say, physically damage the device or other "huge" things, and furthermore, while the "permissions dialog" is just a dialog, the permissions themselves can, if one is so inclined, be modified to actually prevent apps from doing stuff Aug 15 14:33:02 and Android aside, other mobile OS's have stricter security systems, sometimes *too* strict in my opinion, but as SpeedEvil says, i'm not sure something like Maemo's system could work for "mass distribution". most apps are open source, sure, but those that are not could do anything Aug 15 14:34:37 Something like Aegis is probably the right way. But not with the same policy. Aug 15 14:34:38 well, the n900 was never meant as a mass-market device anyway:) Aug 15 14:34:49 For example - one nokia repo with the existing permissions - fine. Aug 15 14:34:54 yeah, Aegis-like is the way to go Aug 15 14:35:06 But a 'community' repo with similar permissions. Aug 15 14:35:17 And the option to install programs locally. Aug 15 14:35:54 and 100% owner override. Aug 15 14:36:09 Androids main problem security wise - well - one of them - is that almost every single app wants internet permission to show ads. Aug 15 14:36:35 So 5/6 of the top calculator apps have all the permissions needed to start scanning your network at 3AM and spamming. Aug 15 14:36:38 heh yeah Aug 15 14:38:04 SpeedEvil, i think i still don't have it clear what Aegis is and does. apparently it's something that checks that the source code's abilities somehow "match" the binary's abilities? but then what about closed source programs? to me, the sanest thing seems to be something like Android *but* with permissiosn that can actually be *set* by the user Aug 15 14:38:35 A couple of parts. Aug 15 14:38:36 hmm.. some android mod distro has that Aug 15 14:38:42 i mean, user control over perm Aug 15 14:38:54 Aegis has a manifest - which is automatically generated at build time (mostly). Aug 15 14:38:55 i forget what its name is.. dont use android outside work Aug 15 14:39:35 This means that all the things the app can do are listed in the manifest. If it tries to do something not in the manifest - you get an error. Aug 15 14:39:44 jaska: yes, CyanogenMod can do that (i have it installed), however, since that's not "standard" in Android, many apps react badly to denied permissions, and crash Aug 15 14:40:09 The second part of aegis is various kernel mods to do stuff like signature verification, secure storage, and keeping track of the system calls a aprocess is permitted. Aug 15 14:40:10 jaska: now there is some new thing, apparently, that just requires root and can sneakily deny permissions by giving apps fake data. a bit hackish, but probably effective Aug 15 14:40:10 i guess one could make mock permissions :) Aug 15 14:40:17 yeah Aug 15 14:40:28 SpeedEvil: hm that sounds like Android except with the manifest being generated automatically Aug 15 14:40:47 LjL-Alps: To a degree, yes. With somewhat different design choices. Aug 15 14:41:14 LjL-Alps: And hte limits being a the kernel level - as it's running native code - not the JVM level Aug 15 14:41:34 * SpeedEvil doesn't understand how NDK code works on android. Aug 15 14:41:41 SpeedEvil: i guess generating the manifest automatically could let them use more granularity without making it a chore for the developer. but with too much granularity, what happens when the user has to click "ok" to a 10-pages-long dialog? actually, how is the user dealt with by Aegis? Aug 15 14:42:04 That part falls over. Aug 15 14:42:16 The user basically gets a capability list, and can accept or not. Aug 15 14:42:19 SpeedEvil: me neither, but let's just ignore the fact NDK apps can probably bypass permissions, and concentrate on how it's *supposed* to be :P Aug 15 14:42:47 again same as Android then Aug 15 14:42:47 There is no way for the user to block certain permissions - or explanation behind those permissions. Aug 15 14:43:05 If you're going to use something like Aegis - you need to back it up with app scrutiny. Aug 15 14:43:43 If, for example, you don't mention on your intro page - or feature list that you need GPS - and you request GPS permission - denied. Aug 15 14:44:26 If you require internet permission (which should be seprate from ad permission) - and there is no reason for it - denied. Aug 15 14:44:28 ... Aug 15 14:44:58 SpeedEvil: yeah well i don't really like centralized app scrutiny (Symbian or iOS style) though. but i think with Android (and probably Aegis?), even making it compulsory to have a, say, 30-words natural language explanation for each capability required would go a long way towards user awareness Aug 15 14:45:32 SpeedEvil: or it could be made community-based, like the community would "mark" apps as "worrisome" if they ask for some permissions they don't justify adequately Aug 15 14:45:35 Centralised app scrutiny - with the ability to install your own apps from files without limits - or the abiloity to add community repos Aug 15 14:45:55 Or it works like extras does - with sane people looking at the apps and promoting them. Aug 15 14:46:24 I think I approved >100 apps - then I kinda stalled. Aug 15 14:46:40 (For extras) Aug 15 14:46:42 SpeedEvil: although... it's easy to request many permissions for "legitimate" reasons (i want your contacts SO I CAN ADD THEM!, i want your sms SO I CAN AUTOMATE SOME THINGS!, i want internet BUT JUST FOR ADS!), and then sneakily *also* use them for less obvious reasons, and how are we going to deal with that if we don't get source code? ever? Aug 15 14:46:51 (Well, upvoted, not technically approved) Aug 15 14:47:03 I agree, that's an issue. Aug 15 14:47:08 And you do what you can. Aug 15 14:47:10 SpeedEvil: yeah that's a sort of community thing like i was describing - but in Maemo's case, it worked based on open source Aug 15 14:48:39 The right solution has intelligent people that will scrutinise the sourcecode of an app, and generate a report, add it to the main repo - or not - and throw a copy in 'bad' repo too. Aug 15 14:48:49 But that unfortunately requires a prohibitive amount of funding Aug 15 14:49:32 SpeedEvil: i think one way i'd like would be 1) asking the user about things granularly ("this app wants to connect to the internet. let it? [x] Remember this choice") 2) and since the "remember this choice" has to be there for practical reasons, the ability to LOOK AT LOGS, i.e. the user should be able to see a well-presented summary of what apps connected to and what SMS they sent and what they generally did Aug 15 14:51:26 Quite. Aug 15 14:51:32 This gets hard though. Aug 15 14:51:47 For example - you want to seperate 'internet' from 'same origin' probably. Aug 15 14:52:15 I care lots less about a process that can't read my files connecting the owners server than connecting to the general interent Aug 15 14:54:01 SpeedEvil: not sure it's what you're saying, but this reminds me, there's also issues of combined permissions. can read my contacts? that's fine, since you can't connect to the internet to send them anywhere. can connect to the internet? that's fine since you can't read my contacts. hehe and now i'm thinking about some crazy stuff like in-app "namespace separation" (for lack of a better term) Aug 15 14:54:21 as in, you can read my contacts, *and* you can connect to the internet, but you can't start using an internet-related call with contacts-related parameters Aug 15 14:54:33 at this point i'm just imagining things though Aug 15 14:54:55 That gets almost prohibitively hard. Aug 15 14:55:12 yeah, probably Aug 15 14:55:23 Trying to secure data between halves of a process, when the process wants them is an almost impossible thing. Aug 15 14:56:40 SpeedEvil: well when you think of it as a single process being denied access to its own data - i agree it's not feasible. but usually, with these mobile things, the way it's been done is to change the model. like, on Android, to let me multitask "sanely", developers have had to separate the foreground part to the service/background part Aug 15 14:56:57 luke-Jr you also reported the same thing Aug 15 14:57:34 LjL-Alps: Not quite that - even if the processes are nominally seperate 'processes' - they are still the same app - written by the same developer. Trying to stop them sharing data is hard. Aug 15 14:57:39 SpeedEvil: so maybe several threads, or even completely separate processes that can only intercommunicate through narrowly controlled channels, could each have access to some resources but not others Aug 15 14:57:56 SpeedEvil: hmm Aug 15 14:58:12 LjL-Alps: For example, if you can monitor CPU usage, or RAM usage - that's a trivial leak Aug 15 14:58:22 It may be a slow way to ttransfer data, but it works Aug 15 14:59:08 The national grid in the UK reports generation capacity on a megawatt resolution at 5 min intervals. Aug 15 14:59:28 I can, with a kettle, and enough time - send signals through this Aug 15 15:01:41 SpeedEvil: you have a point. still, one way or another, i'm convinced on mobile devices, a much higher degree of data isolation is required (even though sure, if you're one developer it's easier for you to make two of your apps talk, so that's a slightly different case). Aug 15 15:02:05 in any case, even though we might not like being denied access to some data file from a given app because it's not its files... this sort of thing is necessary in my opinion Aug 15 15:02:24 If it's the users decision Aug 15 15:02:28 i'm sure it could be handled much better (as in, less obnoxious) than Android or other guys do, though Aug 15 15:02:35 Files gfoing away is retarded. Aug 15 15:02:55 hm? Aug 15 15:03:23 App A saves file. Aug 15 15:03:40 The only way to get that file into app B is to upload it to online sharing service and redownload Aug 15 15:03:56 ah that's totally idiotic Aug 15 15:04:18 i guess the problem is, these genuine security concerns get mixed with control-over-the-user and DRM "concerns" Aug 15 15:04:34 so while you could easily offer a regulated "Export to app B" standard feature, you don't because PIRACY Aug 15 15:04:42 yeah Aug 15 15:08:21 most evil is ovi store on harmattan Aug 15 15:08:37 where after downloading an app you bought 10 times, you are out of 'luck' Aug 15 15:08:41 er Aug 15 15:08:48 downloading it 10 times, after you bought it Aug 15 15:08:58 the 11th download requires to re-purchase Aug 15 15:10:51 Quite. Aug 15 15:10:52 ugh Aug 15 15:21:51 No DRM　is as insane as sony's SCMS. Aug 15 15:22:14 have you used a nokia 5510 Aug 15 15:22:30 it had drm that required to convert my mp3 files to files of a different type, with the exact same size Aug 15 15:22:37 o_O Aug 15 15:22:51 No, but n95-1 gave me the ********. Aug 15 15:23:34 rawr Aug 15 15:23:35 ftp://ftp2.nix.ru/download/drivers/only_from_www.nix.ru/telephon/nokia/5510/5510_audiomanager_en.pdf Aug 15 15:23:38 Everything had to be signed, everything. Even if you disable checking, a program cannot be installed without a certificate. Aug 15 15:23:48 oh man, it needs a 266mhz pentium cpu Aug 15 15:23:51 good times Aug 15 15:23:59 ouch Aug 15 15:24:28 ah, LockStream Aug 15 15:24:31 that was the 5510 drm Aug 15 15:25:06 it was a really good system, you would get mp3's off the internet and the nokia DRM magic would convert them Aug 15 15:25:17 no clue why, since it didnt work as you expect DRM to work anyway Aug 15 15:25:28 i guess the idea was to be unable to convert em back to mp3/aac Aug 15 15:27:35 You can still rip music at 1x rate even if they won't allow you to convert it through quicker means. This whole thing reminds me similar to how NetMD worked, alas NetMD was just a walkman type recorder/player that plays MD instead. Aug 15 15:28:55 If you had to reinstall your windows when you have ripped music through OpenMG, you would no longer be able to play them. Importing them back from NetMD? for each track you do, the program automatically erases that track without giving you the song back. Do that to the entire disc? disc is wiped clean. Aug 15 15:29:42 Very effective indeed. Effective enough to piss users off including a self-named DJ. Aug 15 15:31:03 The case here with LockStream is remarkably similar. Aug 15 15:37:40 hehe, a measly 64MB phone. Probably enough to fit around an audio disc or two before the memory is filled up. Aug 15 16:10:14 anyone can I revert back to nokia-bme Aug 15 16:14:33 psycho_oreos: at audio casette quality, yes Aug 15 16:16:13 Lava_Croft, better that than none :) Aug 15 16:16:43 hence why i got the 5510:) Aug 15 16:16:49 Oh wait you mean for 64MB storage, heh yeah.. though you can't fit much at good quality. Aug 15 16:17:08 n900 is 96gb in total Aug 15 16:17:10 all flac <3 Aug 15 16:17:50 I personally would hate to own one. NetMD ordeal has made me loathe Sory for eternity. Aug 15 16:19:20 That sorta makes me wonder if its possible to swap out the eMMC for 64GB variant. There was a guy pondering about it on TMO (or rather a wishful thought), though I　recall these limitations maybe hardcoded into the firmware/X-Loader or something. Aug 15 16:21:05 I also love how a directory appears in lost+found/:　s--DiadAcjI----- ./#989802 Aug 15 16:21:53 if it's nothing you want, you can delete it... Aug 15 16:22:06 if you can't delete it, it needs to be fscked again. Aug 15 16:23:01 if it still cant be deleted... uh oh. Aug 15 16:23:59 Sourav: eeh, it should work Aug 15 16:25:32 modprobe -r didnt work for him? Aug 15 16:26:02 ecc3g, I've tried fscking it about 2-3 times. In the end I used chattr on it and removed it. Now I have another file with all these exotic attr "tags". Aug 15 16:29:17 psycho_oreos: yay for random filesystem metadata... Aug 15 16:30:01 ever entered 'ls' and got a screen full of funny colored gibberish instead of the expected file listing? Aug 15 16:32:01 haha, I think I　may have seen something similar. Aug 15 16:32:53 Files with excessively large size, files with weird names that doesn't make sense, etc. Aug 15 16:34:22 isnt that windows territory Aug 15 16:38:19 Isn't what is windows territory? what I said or what r00t^home said? Aug 15 16:39:11 * psycho_oreos decides to shift storage to google drive (LOL). Aug 15 16:40:31 weird filenames Aug 15 16:40:35 filesystem borkedness Aug 15 16:43:13 I think I have had similar experiences under linux so I wouldn't really say its windows specific :) Aug 15 16:44:25 :) Aug 15 16:44:32 yeah but you arent supposed to talk bad about linux Aug 15 16:44:42 the rule is that you talk bad about windows so you dont have to fix linux problems Aug 15 16:44:45 dont ruin it now Aug 15 16:44:52 * Lava_Croft chuckles Aug 15 16:45:09 Haha yes, linux is *so perfect* :P Aug 15 16:45:33 no its not, but the rest is less perfect!~ Aug 15 16:45:41 (linux user logic) Aug 15 16:45:52 ok, linux nerd logic Aug 15 16:45:56 linux users arent that bad:) Aug 15 16:46:09 More like biased linux logic :p Aug 15 16:46:27 thats what the linux world is made up of, mostly Aug 15 16:46:28 bias:) Aug 15 16:46:50 they are much closer to applefans than they would want:) Aug 15 16:47:11 No that's what the entire human population is based on. "biasness". Aug 15 16:47:14 windows users just possible cant be like that, given how windows is Aug 15 16:47:16 and they know it Aug 15 16:47:28 you cant keep your eyes dry and windows rocks because X or Y Aug 15 16:47:32 and say* Aug 15 16:48:43 Yes when one gets emotional that can happen lol. Aug 15 16:49:23 * psycho_oreos is starting to sound a bit like "bit" from Tron (the movie). Aug 15 16:50:58 apple? Aug 15 16:51:01 oh no. Aug 15 17:09:13 Anyone got any experience with BlueMaemo? Aug 15 17:17:28 sometimes i want to smack my n9 for its horrible onscreen keyboard Aug 15 17:17:38 but just before i crack open the shell, i realize this is still the best onscreen keyboard Aug 15 17:17:42 and i stroke it Aug 15 17:25:13 lol Aug 15 17:26:10 After I installed opera the stock browser wont open. It loads and then just goes to desktop. Aug 15 17:26:35 unrelated Aug 15 17:26:40 they have nothing to do with each other Aug 15 17:27:07 Probably just need to reboot Aug 15 17:28:28 and Halleluja it's working again Aug 15 17:35:48 I so need a wireless router so I can make love to my 60/60 connection Aug 15 18:44:19 Lithdk: If you use Windows 7 or later, you can use Connectify Lite to create a software Wireless LAN Access Point. Aug 15 18:44:41 Im on linux mint Aug 15 18:45:30 But I have no means of connecting wirelessly to my computer from my phone either, gonna go get a bluetooth dongle for it tommorow, and maybe a wireless router Aug 15 18:45:58 Lithdk: On GNU/Linux, you can use hostapd to create a software Wireless LAN Access Point. Aug 15 18:51:55 @brolin_empey to use either of those my computer needs a wireless adapter and mine doesn't have that as it's a stationary. Could set it up on my laptop though, but still need to run a cable to my laptop then as I dont have wireless in my apartment. Aug 15 18:56:15 <_jester_> hello world Aug 15 18:57:06 Hi Outer Space. Aug 15 19:02:09 <_jester_> and immediatly im recognized as an alien Aug 15 19:02:13 <_jester_> this is not a good disguise Aug 15 19:02:42 live long and prosper. Aug 15 19:09:25 Pali: I have finally patched dm9601.c to backport all of the product entries added since the 2.6.28 kernel. How should I run diff to create a patch file? I mean which diff options do you prefer? Aug 15 19:10:53 Lithdk: So get a Wireless LAN adapter for your desktop computer. Aug 15 19:12:47 Would just be easier to get a wireless router. That way I can use my laptop too and my friends dont have to bring their own ethernet cables Aug 15 19:15:12 Lithdk: If you get a USB Wireless LAN adapter, you can mount it as high as possible to increase the Wireless LAN coverage. Aug 15 19:15:55 uhh intriguing Aug 15 19:16:08 gotta look into that, thanks for the advise Aug 15 19:17:26 Lithdk: buy a router from mikrotik, they're good Aug 15 19:18:19 Lithdk: What type of Internetwork connectivity does your apartment have? DSL or coaxial cable? Aug 15 19:19:33 sec :P let me research that Aug 15 19:20:30 they call it "fiber" Aug 15 19:20:44 60 up and 60 down Aug 15 19:20:58 so... a black box with an ethernet cable coming out of it? Aug 15 19:21:06 white box but yea Aug 15 19:21:13 cool, you don't even need an integrated modem in your router Aug 15 19:21:22 black doesn't really refer to the color Aug 15 19:21:27 rather, to its secretiveness Aug 15 19:21:47 Aha Aug 15 19:22:26 I just need a router that has wifi and can run those high speeds Aug 15 19:22:30 anyway, get something from mikrotik or something that runs openwrt fine Aug 15 19:22:46 Lithdk: Is your desktop computer connected directly to the Ethernet port on your white box? Aug 15 19:22:57 Ye Aug 15 19:22:59 jesus, i expect my router to push much, much more than 60mbits Aug 15 19:23:18 how are you going to transfer data to and from your NAS? Aug 15 19:24:00 I dont have a NAS Aug 15 19:24:10 I do have a old school switchbox however when friends come over Aug 15 19:26:10 Lithdk: If you got an Ethernet switch, a Wireless LAN adapter, and an Ethernet adapter, you could use your desktop computer as both a wired gateway for your wired LAN and as a Wireless LAN Access Point. Aug 15 19:26:27 don't be silly Aug 15 19:26:47 Or I could get a router with wireless, printer output and a 1TB HDD Aug 15 19:29:18 Lithdk: http://routerboard.com/RB951G-2HnD Aug 15 19:29:20 mah Aug 15 19:29:32 get a dreamplug and a 1tb hdd instead! Aug 15 19:31:14 Lithdk: Or you could get a computer printer with Ethernet connectivity so you do not need a separate print server. Aug 15 19:32:38 and you have to keep a computer on at all times Aug 15 19:32:51 Already have a printer, no ethernet connectivity Aug 15 19:33:16 Just USB, so the 1 USB in that link isn't gonna suffice if I also need a storage server Aug 15 19:34:20 Im actually pretty satisfied with this phone, though the kickstand sucks Aug 15 19:37:27 * brolin_empey has a 2-TB 2.5-inch HDD. Not 3.5-inch. 2.5-inch drives need only 5 volts so they can be used as a bus-powered USB Mass Storage device. Aug 15 19:38:17 wouldnt running "echo 30 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness" change the swappiness of my device? Aug 15 19:38:20 as root Aug 15 19:39:32 Lithdk: You can use an external USB hub if the root USB hub has only 1 external port. Aug 15 19:39:46 Oh yeah Aug 15 19:42:51 Lithdk: swappolube Aug 15 19:43:09 handy ui for the swap settings, it has a wiki page i guess Aug 15 19:43:40 Yeah I just figured it out. Some guy on the forum just told me to run the command as root. I dont use swap on my own PC, has tons of ram, so just needed to research it Aug 15 19:49:52 i have swap on microsd card Aug 15 19:49:58 and use flopswap Aug 15 19:53:22 Anyone has any links on microSDHC card for n900 I have to read before buying one? Aug 15 19:54:16 http://wiki.maemo.org/Flopswap Aug 15 19:54:24 I think flopswap is the best solution for end users Aug 15 19:55:42 im an end user myself, so hah Aug 15 19:56:24 40 euro for a 32g microSDHC class 4? Aug 15 19:56:31 could be Aug 15 19:56:37 i have a 64gb one that i dug up somewhere Aug 15 19:56:45 no clue what it cost Aug 15 19:57:24 aha Aug 15 19:57:35 higher class cards are faster i guess, meaning swap on sd might perform faster Aug 15 19:57:44 but i have no clue if this is actually noticable Aug 15 19:59:00 flopswap seems pretty easy to use Aug 15 19:59:15 I just read that a lot of manufactorers are blurring out the line between class 4 and 10 Aug 15 20:03:49 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/14/summer-michelle-hansen-charged-teacher-sex_n_3754716.html Aug 15 20:04:27 Lava_Croft: I think so too. It is designed for "end-users" Aug 15 20:05:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Accessories#Memory_Cards Aug 15 20:06:37 Generally people have seen better speeds from small cards. Well for swap use anyway, it the random write speed that's important. Aug 15 20:06:59 i guess in the end you barely notice any difference Aug 15 20:07:01 in normal uyse Aug 15 20:07:03 use* Aug 15 20:47:56 haha I just discovered that I have used around 100 dollars on internet on my mobile because I dont have a data plan yet. I've just gone crazy thinking that 35 dollars would last a while, but my phone company has my credit card info and "refuels" whenever I reach 0 Aug 15 20:48:09 100 dollars in the span off 2 hours actually Aug 15 20:58:15 cell phone companies are bastards Aug 15 21:05:05 hello, I need some help using rescueos, where do I need to put the 2.6.37 and rescueos .img files so flasher can load them? Aug 15 21:17:28 bennypr0fane: where you want Aug 15 21:22:42 amospalla, but then how would I load them? there is this flasher command in the rescueos documentation flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0" Aug 15 21:22:56 but it dioesn't have any reference to the location of rescueos Aug 15 21:23:20 bennypr0fane: specify it on the command line Aug 15 21:24:08 also, there is no file "initrd.img Aug 15 21:24:41 how is flasher supposed to find that? Aug 15 21:26:05 btw would you happen to know what the .sig files are for? Aug 15 21:29:37 flasher uses the file you specify to it, just specify it with the path, as you would do with any other command line command Aug 15 21:43:01 amospalla, ok, but what about that initrd.img? where is it, what to do with it? is it a part of flasher? Aug 15 21:55:41 initrd.img is rescueOS-1.1.img Aug 15 21:55:43 jeez Aug 15 21:56:08 jeez what? I didn't know that, so what? Aug 15 21:56:23 show me where I might have read that Aug 15 21:56:24 you've got like two files Aug 15 21:56:34 one is 2.6.37 and the other is a file ending in .img Aug 15 21:56:35 jeez Aug 15 21:57:54 nevermind. I was *guessing* that, yeah (and about to try it). what's the harm in asking for confirmation though? Aug 15 21:58:24 everybody is not an IT-professional Aug 15 21:59:33 Pali: I have finally patched asix.c to backport almost all of the product entries added since the 2.6.28 kernel. How should I run diff to create a patch file? I mean which diff options do you prefer? Aug 15 22:07:46 I get a usb error: "USB device found found at bus 002, device address 012. Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted" Aug 15 22:52:19 https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=7070&group_id=1528&atid=5523 Aug 15 22:53:22 That is my first public patch for Maemo. Aug 15 22:54:04 Is the .patch file I submitted accessible? Aug 15 22:54:41 dm9601_backport_all_product_entries_added_to_mainline_kernel_as_of_2013-08-15.patch Aug 15 23:51:41 My second public patch for Maemo: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=7071&group_id=1528&atid=5523 Aug 15 23:52:43 freemangordon: Around? Aug 16 00:00:41 hm Aug 16 00:00:47 i keep forgetting what the other nav software was Aug 16 00:00:53 what's the name of it? mordana? Aug 16 00:05:38 how is marble Aug 16 00:07:13 ? Aug 16 00:13:11 modrana? Aug 16 00:14:15 monav would be good if there were public maps for it... Aug 16 00:15:09 last i checked there were Aug 16 00:15:48 for the monav version in the repos? Aug 16 00:16:02 last i tried there was a version conflict Aug 16 00:18:00 i have not used it in a while so that may be the case... Aug 16 00:18:13 yeah it used to work some time ago... Aug 16 00:18:16 what version is in the repos now? Aug 16 00:20:32 i have (had) things setup to generate the map files, will look into it later Aug 16 00:20:51 hmm my n900 has 0.3.release-3+hg5585bb4a8d77 tho that may be the old version i tried to go back to Aug 16 00:22:55 http://maemo.org/packages/view/monav/ Aug 16 00:23:14 not the old version then Aug 16 00:23:50 heh Aug 16 00:23:55 chainsawbike, tia if you get to make maps :) Aug 16 00:24:06 i am trying to use marble Aug 16 00:24:09 it kind of sucks Aug 16 00:24:19 too bad nokia never made nokia drive for maemo Aug 16 00:24:26 nokia drive is absolutely awesome Aug 16 00:24:29 chainsawbike, bonus points if you make them for n900 squashfs :) Aug 16 00:27:15 wow Aug 16 00:27:24 marble is destroying the n900 Aug 16 00:27:35 im trying to figure out how to get turn by turn directions Aug 16 00:28:02 does marble not speak? Aug 16 00:28:30 dunno, monav did when it still worked iirc Aug 16 00:28:50 hm. ok then maybe i will check out monav Aug 16 00:29:03 nox~ i have made maps for it before ( custom routing and just updated maps) but never did anything with squashfs... Aug 16 00:29:03 see above about the maps :) Aug 16 00:29:08 marble isnt very untuitive Aug 16 00:29:26 try modrana, its what i usually use Aug 16 00:30:39 chainsawbike, iirc the only caveat is you need to make them for the old squashfs version n900 still uses... Aug 16 00:31:31 (theres some make_squashfs app or however it was called iirc) Aug 16 00:31:45 or update n900's version :P Aug 16 00:31:57 update n900's kernel? uhm.... Aug 16 00:32:24 hm Aug 16 00:32:37 so does monav have closed maps or something? Aug 16 00:32:43 do you have to buy them? Aug 16 00:32:49 no, just convert them Aug 16 00:33:18 i still dont know if marble talks heh Aug 16 00:33:22 (easy for an osm guy i guess, maybe less so for others) Aug 16 00:35:34 heh Aug 16 00:35:50 well... i guess according to tmo voice instructions work Aug 16 00:35:59 but you need to download and configure stuff Aug 16 00:36:01 blah Aug 16 00:37:26 i will have to look into it more Aug 16 00:37:39 a lot of the options they show i cant find or dont see Aug 16 00:39:36 i think modrana has voice by default? Aug 16 00:43:04 it would be nice if marble had like.... options Aug 16 00:43:11 i cant find where you change the units Aug 16 00:43:16 to imperial Aug 16 00:43:19 lol Aug 16 00:43:25 Why would you want that? :) Aug 16 00:47:45 because i am an arrogant american Aug 16 00:47:49 and we use miles Aug 16 00:47:51 :) Aug 16 00:48:03 i am trying to find where you change it Aug 16 00:49:08 and i have to figure out how the hell i set up the voice turn by turn Aug 16 00:55:37 well, the scientific part of the us doesn't Aug 16 00:58:32 lol Aug 16 00:58:37 Wizzup: so like.... 10 americans? Aug 16 00:58:38 :) Aug 16 00:58:44 unfortunately the government does haha Aug 16 00:59:01 there has to be a way to change it tho Aug 16 01:16:43 Macer: man up. Use metric. Aug 16 01:17:11 heh Aug 16 01:17:14 no thanks ;) Aug 16 01:17:19 i would if we used it here or if i was in EU Aug 16 02:24:00 In the Oceania region, imperial measurements aren't heavily used either. Aug 16 02:55:14 !seen robbiethe1st Aug 16 02:57:35 s/!/~/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 16 02:59:58 2013