**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 20 02:59:59 2013 Aug 20 06:10:54 hi all Aug 20 06:11:08 is there way to solve the 4Gb limit in chroot? also can I zoom chroot screen ? its very small? Aug 20 06:12:01 DocScrutinizer05: Last time I checked(it was a couple of hours ago) it was me the autobuilder maintainer. Until that holds true, please refrain form declaring what is and what is not supported in autobuilder, esp when it is obvious you still don't understand what the problem with debian epoch and package interface is Aug 20 06:13:07 To make it clear - what is not supported is epoch change Aug 20 06:14:45 and this (epoch change) is not supported in the package interface only - autobuilder, repository, garage and stage have no problems with it Aug 20 06:27:11 DocScrutinizer05: And how it is possible for you to call Pali names is beyond me :S . Hoving bad mood/bad day/whatever is no excuse. Aug 20 06:27:22 having even Aug 20 07:06:59 hmm, looks like the phone only syncs time on boot.. guess i need to put ntp on mine, it was ~5 minutes ahead :) Aug 20 07:07:14 so i can sleep longer Aug 20 07:54:22 something looks similar Aug 20 07:54:24 http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/single-board_computers/next-gen_beaglebone?CMP=KNC-APAC-Knode-BeagleBoneB-300-250 Aug 20 09:17:31 moin Aug 20 09:51:30 dear freemangordon, I was quoting kerio who said "moron uploads package with a really high version to extras-devel,..." and I asked kerio to explain to me how that applies to pali. No name calling Aug 20 09:52:09 he timed out Aug 20 09:54:32 beter that, since he pesters me since 36h with declaring me that I don't have a clue about that silly epoch, while it's his sophism that complicates stuff Aug 20 10:04:53 and btw it's not package interface but repo management that fails epically with epoch, since it didn't use it to find newest version at all and thus didn't promote the new KP for example. and now that we (resp he) removed that botchpatch by xfade introduced to handle KP epoch (which I still fail to see why it's needed) it uses epoch but simply for a silly strng compare so backage acme_3 is greater than acme_2:1 Aug 20 10:06:18 err sorry, the other way round Aug 20 10:08:20 [2013-08-19 21:21:28] what happens now is - it finds 1:1 and stores version 1 (with epoch stripped) in the collection. when it encounters the next package version (1:2 for example) it compares 1 with 1:2, latter being the bigger. But if it encounters 1:2 before 1:1, guess what happens Aug 20 10:08:21 [2013-08-19 21:21:51] it compares 2 with 1:1 Aug 20 10:08:23 [2013-08-19 21:22:13] and decides that version 1:2 is less than 1:1 Aug 20 10:08:24 [2013-08-19 21:22:27] this is an obvious bug introduced by X-Fade's hack Aug 20 10:08:46 [2013-08-19 21:23:29] nevertheless the version stored in the db is with the epoch stripped Aug 20 10:09:04 [2013-08-19 21:25:15] so, we should either compare 1 with 2 or 1:1 with 1:2 Aug 20 10:09:05 [2013-08-19 21:25:41] pretty obviously Aug 20 10:09:18 (now it goes bizarre) Aug 20 10:09:46 [2013-08-19 21:26:05] if we revert X-Fade's hack we'll compare 1 with 2 Aug 20 10:09:47 [2013-08-19 21:26:27] if I implement a workaround/fix, we'll compare 1:1 with 1:2 Aug 20 10:09:48 [2013-08-19 21:27:13] but I am not sure what implications my workaround could have on the other parts of the system Aug 20 10:11:10 so the general rule "don't use epoch" holds valid Aug 20 10:19:51 i need to get a new battery, N900 is dying in it's sleep more often Aug 20 10:20:00 i have all these spares though... Aug 20 11:35:24 mashina: you probably should check your system integrity and config - device a) might simply eat too much power during "sleep", and b) for sure should yell several times before dit dies Aug 20 11:35:48 s/dit/it/. Aug 20 12:32:44 hmm, would someome here able to tell me where to get g++4.2 for n900? :) Aug 20 12:33:28 koopake: you want to build stuff on the device? Aug 20 12:33:40 yeah :) Aug 20 12:34:04 or.. trying to compile the silc plugin for irssi Aug 20 12:34:19 why not use scratchbox? Aug 20 12:35:15 hmm, im a beginner in this stuff, so im not familiar with that :I Aug 20 12:35:28 imma look that up now though :) Aug 20 12:35:50 koopake: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation Aug 20 12:36:10 nice, thanks! Aug 20 12:42:37 one more dummy question: aint there no screen for xterminal on n900? :P Aug 20 12:43:32 I think screen package should be available Aug 20 12:45:28 I would think so too as its available for N9, but cant find it on the extra repos :/ Aug 20 12:46:50 http://maemo.org/packages/view/screen/ Aug 20 12:46:50 http://maemo.org/packages/view/screen-n900/ Aug 20 12:46:55 NFC what is what Aug 20 12:51:13 awesome! Aug 20 12:51:18 * koopake hugs freemangordon Aug 20 12:51:19 koopake: there is also tmux Aug 20 12:55:08 nice, thanks BCMM! shellinabox was on mi list of apps to be installed too Aug 20 13:06:24 [2013-08-20 11:51:30] dear freemangordon, I was quoting kerio who said "moron uploads package with a really high version to extras-devel,..." and I asked kerio to explain to me how that applies to pali. No name calling Aug 20 13:07:23 DocScrutinizer05: saw that Aug 20 15:51:45 i have a n900 that is bootlooping. its been in the drawer a few weeks so the battery isn't at it's best. what do? Aug 20 15:55:21 ~flashing Aug 20 15:55:22 maemo-flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Aug 20 15:55:50 sixwheeledbeast: to clarify, the battery is probably pretty low. Aug 20 15:57:22 you may need to charge it externally via desktop charger or other device Aug 20 15:57:35 desktop charger? Aug 20 15:58:34 do you mean wall outlet charger? Aug 20 15:59:17 auxiliary charger Aug 20 15:59:33 I.E. anything not including N900 Aug 20 16:00:06 so it is impossible to charge a bootlooping n900? Aug 20 16:00:18 basically yes Aug 20 16:00:39 there's a still not confirmed idea that you could use rescueOS to charge Aug 20 16:01:17 so buying a new battery and hope that it is charge is my best bet? Aug 20 16:01:22 charged* Aug 20 16:01:32 one of your better bets at least Aug 20 16:01:36 what happens if i try flashing it and the battery dies during the flashing? Aug 20 16:01:50 buying external charger is another one, trying rescueOS a third one Aug 20 16:01:53 batteries come 40-60% charged Aug 20 16:02:13 external charger == a charger that charges the battery without the phone? Aug 20 16:02:14 desktop charger = external charger Aug 20 16:02:24 benedikt: it's highly unlikely that battery dies during flashing, since NOLO will refuse to start flashing when battery is too low Aug 20 16:03:24 however wehn it ever would happen (e.g. removing battery during flashing), you most likely just need to redo the flasshing process Aug 20 16:03:37 DocScrutinizer05: so trying flashing it should be harmless? Aug 20 16:04:00 worst case you might need a coldflash, but that never happened on any of the 1 mio N900 so far ;-) Aug 20 16:04:13 yes, trying to flash is always harmless Aug 20 16:04:23 basically N900 is unbrickable Aug 20 16:04:42 oh good Aug 20 16:04:46 that is reassuring Aug 20 16:05:10 is maemo still being developed? Aug 20 16:05:28 and this is maybe offtopic, but what about flashing it with meego? Aug 20 16:06:06 i measured be batter to 3.37V with a multimeter Aug 20 16:06:09 but when you don't see a NOKIA screen with USB logo on N900, when holding down "U" key on unpowered N900 and then plugging device to Nokia wallcharger, then your battery is too weak and no chance whatsoever to start flashing it Aug 20 16:06:12 it is rated 3.7 Aug 20 16:06:34 DocScrutinizer05: i can get the nokia screen with usb logo Aug 20 16:06:39 3.3V is way too low Aug 20 16:06:50 does it stay? Aug 20 16:07:08 did so yesterday Aug 20 16:07:10 if it does, then you're ready to go for flashing Aug 20 16:07:33 but if it is basically unbrickable and its safe to try flashing, i'll give it a go before ordering a new battery (and waiting 3 weeks) Aug 20 16:07:43 sure Aug 20 16:08:01 go ahead, and don't wase battery remaining chage on useless experiments Aug 20 16:08:12 omg Aug 20 16:08:20 go ahead, and don't waste battery remaining charge on useless experiments Aug 20 16:09:36 what is OS2008? Aug 20 16:09:47 take care about the caveats as mentioned on ~flashing wikipage Aug 20 16:10:06 OS2008 is N800/N810 maemo4 Aug 20 16:10:23 and whats up with all these license agreements and having me enter product ids? i thought maemo was supposed to be free software? Aug 20 16:10:37 well, not everything is Aug 20 16:10:42 true Aug 20 16:10:45 a lot binary blobs Aug 20 16:10:48 forgot about them Aug 20 16:10:50 exactly Aug 20 16:11:37 there might be licensed blobs like mp3codecs, DSP and GPU driver libs, flash10, whatnot else Aug 20 16:11:45 bt and wlan chip firmware Aug 20 16:11:47 yep Aug 20 16:11:57 how up to date are the packages in the maemo repos? Aug 20 16:12:23 as up to date as it gets, no changes since 2 years I'd say Aug 20 16:12:31 in the base nokia repos Aug 20 16:12:50 on extras-* though, we get new stuff or updates every other day Aug 20 16:12:52 so the kernel is old and the coreutils are old? Aug 20 16:12:57 yes Aug 20 16:13:20 is it possible to install arm debian on a n900 Aug 20 16:13:28 i think so Aug 20 16:13:30 but it's going to suck Aug 20 16:13:39 which isn't too bad since it means no api breakage for all the apps basing on it Aug 20 16:13:45 doubt it has a dialer. just an intersting idea Aug 20 16:13:53 i was thinking more about the powersaving Aug 20 16:14:03 DocScrutinizer05: it makes sense from a "lest not break things"-perspective Aug 20 16:14:12 mer is supposed to be a modern distribution Aug 20 16:14:20 and on the n900, it chews through the battery like a madman Aug 20 16:15:15 mer is strictly upstream/mainline, while maemo has a lot of carefully tailored-to-fit yet FOSS drivers Aug 20 16:15:44 not all of them made it upstream Aug 20 16:18:35 benedikt: take particular care to blacklist phonet kernel module on your PC linux, for flashing Aug 20 16:19:11 basically all recent linux distros ship this useless phonet.ko Aug 20 16:19:12 DocScrutinizer05: it isn't loaded Aug 20 16:19:13 "particular care" Aug 20 16:19:23 $ lsmod | grep -c phonet Aug 20 16:19:23 0 Aug 20 16:19:25 it's just not going to work if it's loaded, no permanent harm done Aug 20 16:19:30 benedikt: automatic loading Aug 20 16:19:40 ah Aug 20 16:19:43 benedikt: that's the point ;-P it gets loaded as soon as you plug in the N900 Aug 20 16:19:57 unless you blacklist it Aug 20 16:20:12 blacklited Aug 20 16:20:21 wiki said it is called cdc_phonet Aug 20 16:21:35 yeah, sth like that Aug 20 16:22:48 * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to create a udev rule to start flasher-3.5 instead of cdc_phonet on N900 hotplug event Aug 20 16:23:30 but then, cdc_phonet is loaded via depmod-stuff I guess Aug 20 16:23:38 not via udev Aug 20 16:23:45 wild guessing Aug 20 16:38:35 battery was dead, but it turns out that my local phone shop has the battery for cheap Aug 20 17:29:57 ub Aug 20 17:34:17 die andere nachricht bekommen? die fritzbox hier ist komisch Aug 20 17:35:17 sry. wrong channel Aug 20 18:38:48 is there any preferred way to syncronize calendar and contacts on maemo? caldav and carddav support seems flaky Aug 20 18:41:47 benedikt: install syncevolution Aug 20 18:42:06 it has support for most providers and protocols Aug 20 19:51:03 Is there any way to get a notification/confirmation when a screenshot is successfully saved as requested in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5770 ? This screenshot notification should have been added before the Nokia N900 was publicly released. :/ Aug 20 19:51:05 04Bug 5770: Keyboard shortcut for screenshot should provide notification/confirmation Aug 20 19:52:18 mmm, some vibra feedback would be handy Aug 20 19:54:48 Can someone using Maemo 5 CSSU check if any confirmation is provided when a screenshot is successfully saved? I do not use CSSU so I cannot check by myself. Aug 20 19:55:01 there's nothing, iirc Aug 20 19:55:53 nothing here on Stable Aug 20 19:56:46 kerio: Are you using Maemo 5 CSSU? Aug 20 19:56:48 yes Aug 20 19:59:12 kerio: sixwheeledbeast: ☹ :/ Aug 20 20:00:03 eh? Aug 20 20:01:09 patches welcome Aug 20 20:01:12 and actually not really Aug 20 20:01:15 i would find it very annoying Aug 20 20:01:33 optional somehow? Aug 20 20:01:49 Does Harmattan provide any confirmation when a screenshot is successfully saved? Aug 20 20:24:17 cpu-load-applet does afaik Aug 20 20:24:51 which sucks, since sometimes you see that notification on your screenshot ;-P Aug 20 20:25:22 makes sense when screenshot-tool snapshots its own notifier Aug 20 20:25:39 X-D Aug 20 20:30:10 I imagine a audible or vibra notice would be better if it was to be implemented Aug 20 20:30:45 indeed Aug 20 20:31:06 I don't see what for I need a confirmation at all Aug 20 20:31:11 however it's easy to push banner messages with dbus calls Aug 20 20:32:06 I'm trying hard to never do the "wut, no reaction? press that key again" Aug 20 20:32:59 so when I press the kbd-shortcut for a screenshot, I simply assume it got done this very moment Aug 20 20:33:18 no need for notifier Aug 20 20:34:27 * DocScrutinizer05 discovered a whole new world of fun and wasting time: rtlsdr and gnuradio Aug 20 20:57:32 DocScrutinizer05: I have to press Shift+Ctrl+P instead of Ctrl+Shift+P . A screenshot is saved when I press Shift+Ctrl+P but not when I press Ctrl+Shift+P . Aug 20 20:58:21 eh. you press them all together. Aug 20 20:59:59 DocScrutinizer05: Sometimes I miss what I wanted in a screenshot because I press Ctrl+Shift+P instead of Shift+Ctrl+P , hence my desire for a confirmation when a screenshot is successfully saved. Aug 20 21:02:26 it never even occurred to me that you could press the keys one after the other Aug 20 21:03:15 anyway shift is "sticky" sometimes (you can press and release it as prefix qualifier) while afaik ctrl never is Aug 20 21:03:16 DocScrutinizer05: rtlsdr is pretty cool, i mentioned that to a few people in here, but possibly not you Aug 20 21:04:31 brolin_empey: press all three concurrently and you'll never again will have missing screenshots Aug 20 21:05:04 LjL-Alps: yep, I already wonder if and how to get it onto N900 Aug 20 21:06:25 DocScrutinizer05: hmm that didn't even occur to me, but it sure would be nice. there are some (not very good) things for Android to use it, but remotely Aug 20 21:07:38 seems to me like the ideal addon for a pentest tool Aug 20 21:08:23 DocScrutinizer05: for pentesting what? i believe it covers neither wifi nor bluetooth Aug 20 21:08:30 or rather, general security audit tool Aug 20 21:08:57 sorry for the dumb question, for I'm just curious: has anyone tried to build a more recent kernel? if not, what's stopping us? Aug 20 21:09:22 id does cover GSM but ssssh don't tell anyone ;( Aug 20 21:09:23 it* Aug 20 21:09:40 pentesting buildings, RFID acess cards, 868MHz - garage door openers, - security cams, whatnot else Aug 20 21:10:25 mashina: the closed blobs built against 2.6.28 Aug 20 21:10:27 DocScrutinizer05: hmm, i guess. i'm content with listening to what the public transport drivers say :P well i'm not, i wish it covered shortwave so i could listen to hams, especially now my scanner broke Aug 20 21:10:29 hack the planet! Aug 20 21:10:44 ls blobs Aug 20 21:11:05 like gsm? Aug 20 21:11:45 for example, but even more like XPROT (alsa/PA), GPU drivers, DSP drivers, etc pp Aug 20 21:11:55 DocScrutinizer05, i don't know if the N900 has enough power to deal with the rtlsdr, though...? unless you use it at much less than 3Msps i guess. iirc i can barely decode anything on my EeePC Aug 20 21:12:56 LjL-Alps: yes, it can't handle the datarate needed for decoding arbitrary signals, but you can set up sample rate for anything down to 900ksps Aug 20 21:13:02 they told me Aug 20 21:13:22 which should work Aug 20 21:13:23 DocScrutinizer05: 1Msps is certainly possible at least Aug 20 21:13:49 that's 16Mbps Aug 20 21:14:03 shouldn't be a problem for N900 Aug 20 21:14:45 at least on USB level, dunno how complex decoding may get Aug 20 21:14:46 DocScrutinizer05, plus the overhead for decoding say at least FM Aug 20 21:16:13 FM and AM decoding is probably rather simple Aug 20 21:16:19 DocScrutinizer05, i haven't used my rtlsdr in a while, but last time i used it the reference "SDR-style" software (aside from GNURadio for people who knew what they were doing, of course) was SDR# on Windows (which, however, is a licensing mess), and http://gqrx.dk/ on Linux Aug 20 21:17:38 http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/rtl-sdr Aug 20 21:19:10 gnuradio is fun, particularly the gnu radio companion. I just built me a simple synthesizer (nothing radio at all) ;-D Aug 20 21:19:52 mucht like arts/ladspa or what it been called, just more evolved Aug 20 21:19:55 DocScrutinizer05: that's the main wiki about it yeah, but i figured that'd be the first spot you'd end up on :P also, http://rtlsdr.reddit.com/ at least used to have interesting news Aug 20 21:19:56 much* Aug 20 21:20:34 there also is www.sdr-j.tk/sdrj-manual.pdf and the dab receiver by the same author - www.sdr-j.tk Aug 20 21:20:47 well, waterfall and rtl_fm works now, with a cheesy logilink stick Aug 20 21:21:03 waiting for proper sticks I ordered Aug 20 21:21:44 Dexatek DK DVB-T Dongle (Logilink VG0002A) Aug 20 21:21:56 ...is what I'm using Aug 20 21:23:49 DocScrutinizer05: uh that's a new tuner, i didn't know about it Aug 20 21:24:05 * LjL-Alps looks for its frequency range Aug 20 21:24:06 anyway such a stick half the size of my thumb, attached to N900, converting it to a 50MHz..2000MHz universal receiver. Sounds appealing to me Aug 20 21:24:21 ah, meh Aug 20 21:24:33 it does sound like you'd benefit from getting a proper one :P Aug 20 21:24:42 already ordered Aug 20 21:24:49 I hope so Aug 20 21:24:59 DocScrutinizer05: E4000 chip? Aug 20 21:25:12 i think fc0013 for that one Aug 20 21:25:26 (the logilink) Aug 20 21:25:35 nox-: which one? Aug 20 21:25:45 yep, and yep Aug 20 21:25:57 uh Aug 20 21:26:01 wiki says FC2580 Aug 20 21:26:02 there also are now r820t Aug 20 21:26:36 nox-: yeah that's interesting since it reaches a it into shortwave Aug 20 21:26:38 LjL-Alps, maybe theres a new version of that logilink one then Aug 20 21:26:44 yeah... Aug 20 21:26:50 this cheesy one has fc0013, the ordered ones (terratec Tstick) are E4000 Aug 20 21:28:37 i have an E4000 one, specifically the "original" one that was investigated, it works ok. apparently, another possible advantage with the r820t is that it has no DC spike in the middle for some reason i forget Aug 20 21:29:40 DC spike? Aug 20 21:31:13 jr@saturn:~/rtl> python2 downloads/waterfall.py 142e6 146e6 Aug 20 21:31:13 http://www.fasttech.com/products/1254300 Aug 20 21:31:15 Found Fitipower FC0013 tuner Aug 20 21:31:19 that looks a bit like mine Aug 20 21:31:25 DocScrutinizer05: err i don't remember the right terms as i'm pretty ignorant about radio :( but, with the E4000 (and afaik, many other SDR setups), if you tune directly on x mhz, then you see noise at and around x mhz, so you have to tune up or tune down from the frequency you actually want Aug 20 21:32:25 aah, maybe that's why this friggin stuff always tells me the frequency is off a few KHz from what I told it Aug 20 21:32:53 jr@saturn:~/rtl> rtl_fm -f 868.3e6 Aug 20 21:33:01 Tuned to 868564000 Hz. Aug 20 21:33:35 whats at that freq? Aug 20 21:33:54 remote sensors etc Aug 20 21:34:00 ah Aug 20 21:34:02 my home automation Aug 20 21:34:12 http://www.fasttech.com/products/1254300 -> r820t Aug 20 21:34:17 i have the ezcap eztv668 Aug 20 21:34:22 (was linked from reddit) Aug 20 21:34:38 DocScrutinizer05: yes that should be the reason Aug 20 21:34:49 DocScrutinizer05: there's probably an option to tell it to use a different offset if you don't like the default one Aug 20 21:35:33 DocScrutinizer05: also, the current gqrx screenshot on the site shows no DC spike, so maybe latest gqrx version "corrects" it in software, insomuch as that's possible - at least it'd be nice if scanning didn't stop on the DC spike just because the signal appears to be stronger Aug 20 21:37:05 I get an annoying line pattern on waterfall Aug 20 21:37:51 DocScrutinizer05: this shows the DC spike http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:sdr2.png although in my experience it's hardly just a thin line on the waterfall, it takes up much more space Aug 20 21:41:22 I don't have such a nice GUI yet Aug 20 21:41:31 what app is that? windoze? Aug 20 21:43:37 aaah SDR# Aug 20 21:43:52 DocScrutinizer05: yes that's SDR#, but gqrx doesn't look much worse (although SDR# certanly has more features) Aug 20 21:48:39 http://wstaw.org/m/2013/08/20/plasma-desktopmd3743.png is what I got here so far Aug 20 21:50:54 ubrelated but i like what kde is doing with plasma Aug 20 21:51:02 plasma tv, plasma netbook, etc. Aug 20 21:54:15 ohyeah, plasma, the thing that either freezes or segfaults on my KDE4 Aug 20 21:54:33 and takes half of desktop with it Aug 20 21:55:29 hehe Aug 20 21:55:30 apropos desktop. Seems that's not modern anymore, sometimes I can't even find it at all Aug 20 21:56:09 DocScrutinizer05, you're too stuck in 2012. join 2013. Aug 20 21:56:19 i found kde to be stable for me, but i don't use it much Aug 20 21:56:20 not that I have a look at any desktop too often, way too many fulsize windows opened Aug 20 21:56:26 but whenver I used it, I always liked it Aug 20 21:56:32 have you looked into tiling WMs? Aug 20 21:56:36 i used to like KDE Aug 20 21:56:37 3 ;( Aug 20 21:56:46 tiling wms might be the change you need Aug 20 21:56:47 KDE3 was great Aug 20 21:57:02 KDE4 is :-x Aug 20 21:57:07 yeah Aug 20 21:58:29 i like both Aug 20 21:59:59 http://wstaw.org/m/2013/08/20/plasma-desktopmd3743.png see the moon applet? in KDE3 you could adjust your latitude from -90° to +90°, in KDE4 you can select south and north hemisphere. It's just an example of how whole KDE4 is a crippled POS Aug 20 22:00:40 well i probably wouldn't choose that particular example, but Aug 20 22:01:11 was the first one I could think of Aug 20 22:01:49 no matter what you pick, i can't find a single topic where KDE4 is an improvement over 3 Aug 20 22:01:53 DocScrutinizer05: you could probably concentrate better on finding better ones if you weren't distracted by plasma/kwin crashing every 30 seconds and making your desktop flash Aug 20 22:02:56 and then that "EEEK no *colors* please, we're modern!" theme Aug 20 22:03:47 noticed same shite on fremantle, tbh Aug 20 22:04:15 fads Aug 20 22:04:40 if the current fad is "colors everywhere", you can be next one will be "strictly black and white", and vice versa Aug 20 22:05:01 except in the process of changing from one to the other, actual features are dropped because people are all focused on the whole saturation business Aug 20 22:05:32 *sigh* you're so right **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 21 02:59:58 2013