**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 21 02:59:59 2013 Aug 21 04:49:56 is it possible to tell skype/gtalk and other chat to use proxy? Aug 21 05:29:06 wow Aug 21 05:29:18 there has to be something seriously wrong with microb Aug 21 05:29:24 this topping out isnt normal Aug 21 05:34:09 A wonderful good Morning (UGT) Aug 21 05:35:30 !ugt Aug 21 06:15:49 well Aug 21 06:15:57 need to figure out how to make marble useful Aug 21 06:16:09 wish there was nokia drive for n900 :-/ Aug 21 06:23:04 maybe i will just try monav Aug 21 06:23:28 the tutorial for marble shows a dir that doesnt even exist for audio instructions Aug 21 06:25:37 ugh. the app manager is suxh a pain Aug 21 06:47:51 whats wrong with microb? whats toping out??? Aug 21 07:01:10 seems to max cpu all the time Aug 21 07:01:16 even on simple pages Aug 21 07:01:38 ah well. i am working on modrana now Aug 21 07:01:51 i need a nav app with voice turns that doesnt completely suck Aug 21 07:02:28 modrana seems like the best candidate but unfortunately i'm not driving to figure it out heh Aug 21 07:03:05 and i want to get the ios theme. the default theme is incredibly ugly Aug 21 07:03:20 i'd love nokia drive on my n900. driving with my e7 is a dream Aug 21 07:05:48 guess the ios theme is in devel :-/ Aug 21 07:06:06 I agree default theme is ugly, but I would like something cool and lite. Aug 21 07:12:00 well. the theme didnt seem to work anyways Aug 21 07:12:06 not sure how to use it Aug 21 07:13:34 figured i just install it Aug 21 07:13:40 and use it in the config Aug 21 07:13:47 but all i get is default and night Aug 21 07:24:23 MicroB is not the only app to top out the cpu, it's just the way the Cortex A8 in the 900 works. It's rather old, and not that efficient, or more so gtk, qt and xul are not extremly efficient on it. Aug 21 07:28:49 hi, why claws-mail is not present in new repositories? is it too unstable? Aug 21 07:44:16 LauRoman: yeah i understand that i just dont remember it being this problematic Aug 21 07:44:45 trying to do one of the battery full-charge->discharge cycle from http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1053809&postcount=846 ... just to see how much of the battery is still left after the 1-2 years I use it Aug 21 07:44:49 exciting :P Aug 21 07:45:39 I mean... actually it's not/should not be exciting, but the constant warnings that the battery is empty and the count-down thingy trigger all excitement-reflexes Aug 21 07:46:55 wth Aug 21 07:47:04 how do i use this modrana theme heh Aug 21 07:47:11 i still only get night and default Aug 21 08:04:10 how do i extract a .deb with dpkg? Aug 21 08:04:21 i want to see what files this ios theme has Aug 21 08:04:28 it has to be installing the pkg wrong Aug 21 08:05:01 oh nm Aug 21 08:05:03 -x Aug 21 08:14:35 Mac3, it's an ar archive with a couple of tar.gz's in it. ar -x some.deb Aug 21 08:16:21 hm, didn't know dpkg has an option now to just unpack Aug 21 08:24:22 is there a way to auto start a python script when i use 3g or wif or when i start a certain app? or should i just run it on startup? Aug 21 08:25:18 i found it Aug 21 08:25:27 although i dont see what the "theme" does Aug 21 08:25:39 seems like it is just an icon pack Aug 21 08:26:02 i need to test modrana out some more Aug 21 08:26:15 but from what i can tell trying to pick a pio and drive to it Aug 21 08:26:24 i keep getting no routing data found errors Aug 21 08:30:57 ah ok i got it Aug 21 08:31:07 seems like i dont have any monav routing data Aug 21 08:33:47 guess i have to download all the US data lol Aug 21 08:34:23 i will work on that later... but i managed to get modrana to give me voice instructions somewhere Aug 21 08:34:32 the voice sucks tho heh Aug 21 08:39:29 wth Aug 21 08:39:34 hm. odd. Aug 21 09:00:12 How much bandwidth do you need to call via Skype or VoIP and is that even practical? I have used local wifi once with Skype and I thought it was terrible, latency wise. Aug 21 09:01:31 heh Aug 21 09:01:42 i have an awesome business class cm Aug 21 09:01:55 with wireless phones using a base wired up Aug 21 09:02:00 and it is still latent Aug 21 09:02:16 it has to go through prism first i suppose Aug 21 09:11:56 hi all Aug 21 09:11:56 I want to make playlist for player Aug 21 09:12:07 can I make playlist file in my linux and copy it to maemo? Aug 21 09:14:07 Macer: Skype via a wired (ethernet) connection does run fast and is even better than a normal landline, because of the greater bandwidth. Aug 21 09:14:19 Good Question. Might the Mediaplayer be Part of the Closed-Source-Blob? Aug 21 09:17:23 ok Aug 21 09:17:33 I think I found somthing Aug 21 09:17:37 Good Aug 21 09:20:17 The mediaplayer is closed, thats why we have OMP ;) Aug 21 09:22:02 ktnx Aug 21 09:22:17 It has weird Glitches Aug 21 09:36:16 Where can I find OMP? Aug 21 11:22:25 ~omp Aug 21 11:22:25 infobot: omp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156 Aug 21 11:22:25 it has been said that omp is Open Media Player Aug 21 11:22:25 sixwheeledbeast: okay Aug 21 11:24:48 does anybody use the "My Location" in the "My availability" section of IM for N900? Just wondering what information it broadcasts and where it's shown on other devices. Aug 21 11:47:10 sixwheeledbeast: Thanks Aug 21 11:52:24 Apic: np Aug 21 13:24:32 ~omp Aug 21 13:24:33 rumour has it, omp is Open Media Player Aug 21 13:25:10 ~listvalues http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156 Aug 21 13:25:11 Factoid search of 'http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156' by value (1): omp. Aug 21 13:25:22 FFS Aug 21 13:25:53 ~forget _default omp Aug 21 13:25:54 i didn't have anything called '_default omp' to forget, DocScrutinizer05 Aug 21 13:26:03 ~forget omp Aug 21 13:26:03 i forgot omp, DocScrutinizer05 Aug 21 13:26:08 ~omp Aug 21 13:26:09 omp is probably Open Media Player Aug 21 13:26:39 ~#maemo omp is also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156 Aug 21 13:26:39 DocScrutinizer05: okay Aug 21 13:26:41 ~omp Aug 21 13:26:42 omp is, like, Open Media Player, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156 Aug 21 13:27:16 ~literal omp Aug 21 13:27:17 "#maemo omp" is "Open Media Player, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156" Aug 21 13:28:02 lrn2factoidPLZKTNX Aug 21 13:33:09 just had a look at that and... more like http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Media_Player or even http://maemo.org/packages/view/openmediaplayer/ ? Aug 21 13:34:20 the starting post seems outdated linking to some kind of horrible /usr/local installer from omp's early times Aug 21 13:45:06 Iridos: thanks for checking. Aug 21 13:45:39 infobot: no, #maemo omp is http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Media_Player Aug 21 13:45:39 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Aug 21 13:53:19 welcome :) And of course my motivation was an entirely selfish one, really. Aug 21 14:18:16 I'm quite hapy about you pointing me at OMP wiki, it confirmed my notion that there's no sound rationale why OMP ever should replace MP in CSSU, since you can easily install and even use the both concurrently and select which one is default system mediaplayer, by editing one single line in a config file Aug 21 14:20:58 is it feature complete with original? Aug 21 14:21:01 !war Aug 21 14:23:15 Well, IMO cssu should aim to replace closed bits, if and only if the alternative is feature-complete and stable (as stable as nokia version) Aug 21 14:23:54 MrPingu: alas we have nobody to do decent QA even for urgently needed bugfixes Aug 21 14:24:15 MrPingu: so any statement of "is stable" is a hoax Aug 21 14:25:32 MrPingu: and I'm strongly deprecating to mess "with a working system" just to get the benefit of "it's FOSS now", since I for one don't care if it's FOSS as long as I don't have a bug or improvement to fix in it Aug 21 14:26:23 and generally we won't *replace* _anything_, when the planned replacement as well can coexist Aug 21 14:27:45 offering additional options is fine. Removing anything will happen only when that thing is rogue in any way Aug 21 14:28:14 ShadowJK: seems it is Aug 21 14:28:52 including resume of playback and signaling last playback position to other apps? :-) Aug 21 14:29:23 MrPingu: CSSU is _not_ aiming to forcefeed a supposedly "better" or "nicer" fixed set of applications onto users Aug 21 14:30:25 I see, but it is to get bug fixes onto users where nokia failed. Or not? Aug 21 14:30:36 MrPingu: CSSU is about bugfixes if they are dangerous, and everything else shall be strictly optional, IOW offer additional options to users, not deprive them from stuff Aug 21 14:32:39 we're not going to do the "new better version: 70% of useless functions finally removed" Aug 21 14:34:05 if there's a way to increase the number of options in any way, we will prefer that. If there's a suggestion to reduce number of options for users, we usually will reject since there's nothing wrong with options you got Aug 21 14:35:17 so _relacing_ (means deleting) MP by OMP won't happen, since they can coexist, giving CSSU users the option to install/keep and even use either one or even both concurrently Aug 21 14:35:40 s/relac/replac/ Aug 21 14:35:41 DocScrutinizer05 meant: so _replacing_ (means deleting) MP by OMP won't happen, since they can coexist, giving CSSU users the option to install/keep and even use either one or even both concurrently Aug 21 14:37:38 what CSSU might do is to take M(edia)P(layer) out of m(eta)p(ackake) so user can actually uninstall it - sth you can't do so far. Thus increasing options of user, not reducing them Aug 21 14:44:19 "dear Amazon user: we just uploaded the new improved version of 'Linux unleashed' e-book to your kindle. It comes with option to underline words and highlight passages, is written in new awesome gothic font, and we removed the useless chapter 13. Alas we had to delete your previous version of this book to recover the space for the new improved version" I *bet* you'd be extremely amused about such message Aug 21 14:45:57 Amazon indeed sometimes does this or similar nasty. CSSU never should Aug 21 14:46:14 "dear Amazon user: We removed have noticed your poor taste and replaced your collection with the more popular twilight series" Aug 21 14:47:35 ShadowJK: nope, seems that's still missing Aug 21 14:47:50 according to wiki Aug 21 14:47:52 "dear Amazon user: We noticed you mayy be reading subversive material and replaced your collection with ebooks approoved by the commision of the patriotic homeland" Aug 21 14:48:05 the wiki well might be pretty outdated though Aug 21 14:49:25 "Dear Amazon user: We noticed you are reading books native to your own language and replaced your collection with books in our favored language" Aug 21 14:49:39 hmm, I must be off my meds Aug 21 14:49:56 ooh, thanks for reminder Aug 21 14:49:59 ;-P Aug 21 14:52:14 Agreed :P Aug 21 14:52:47 On the part of removing it from meta-package Aug 21 14:52:54 hey people :) Aug 21 14:52:54 Help, is it just me? or nokia n900 is unable to play youtube videos anymore from the native browser?? Aug 21 14:53:23 eeh, it always only kinda worked for me Aug 21 14:53:28 it was always stuttering Aug 21 14:53:30 use cutetube Aug 21 14:55:56 kerio: cutetube needs libspeex1, I can't find this package do u have it?? Aug 21 14:56:24 so it's not installable? D: Aug 21 14:56:30 report a bug to its maintainer Aug 21 14:56:57 kerio: I have so many applications that depend on a package that is not available Aug 21 14:57:20 kerio: I have added maemo extras, maemo extras testing Aug 21 14:57:37 kerio: still these not solved! Aug 21 14:57:48 kerio: do u have any idea what to do? Aug 21 14:58:56 so cutetube is in extras-testing, but it's not installable? Aug 21 14:59:08 definetely a bug Aug 21 14:59:38 damn shite! N900 display turns all black, with only single random gui elements (like cursor, or time in status area, or random other button) sometimes staying visible Aug 21 15:00:02 nothing in syslog :-/ Aug 21 15:00:21 graphics glitch Aug 21 15:00:28 reboot! Aug 21 15:00:28 :nod: Aug 21 15:00:37 it happened to me once, too Aug 21 15:00:38 but on a strange logical level Aug 21 15:00:49 well, not too strange Aug 21 15:01:09 it just loses all video content, then renders some few elements anew Aug 21 15:01:21 *sigh* Aug 21 15:01:23 reboot time Aug 21 15:01:36 in my case, it drawed whenever something updated Aug 21 15:01:45 exactly Aug 21 15:01:57 glad to see that failure modes are at least common Aug 21 15:01:58 :D Aug 21 15:04:15 but WHAT THE HELL, when xterm goes black after it refreshed the white background when I hit enter, then the screen goes all black ooh wait a tiny scrollbar comes up(!) instead on very right side of screen, and fades out "slowly" while rest of screen all bleck in a millisecond Aug 21 15:05:53 meh!! reboot Aug 21 15:12:46 which brings me to another pita: since quite some time VoIP doesn't go online when device associates to my home WLAN. When I however disconnect and reconnect to same WLAN a 30s later (or any other arbitrary moment), everything is pretty fine Aug 21 15:14:14 coming home -> device roams from GPRS to WLAN -> VoIP says "not connected, network error". Disconnect, reconnect -> VoIP shows green dot Aug 21 15:14:38 s/coming home/booting device/ if you like Aug 21 15:17:08 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders wth is the difference between booting up device and it scans for wlans and connects to my home wlan, and me going to "internet" and disconnecting wlan, device scans for wlans, I tap on my home network and it connects to it Aug 21 15:20:36 ummmm... might it send a DHCP-release to my router when I disconnect and then get a new lease when I reconnect? but only a lease-renew on same lease when I reboot and it auto-connects? Aug 21 15:22:19 if that's the case, this might cause troubles with still kept-alive NAT sessions that are not known to SIP and only get torn down in NAT when the device actually actively disconnects? Aug 21 15:26:23 I'd be surprised if nat gets torn down by a proper disconnect Aug 21 15:27:14 the nat sessions Aug 21 15:27:42 yes Aug 21 15:28:22 it's actually aninteresting question if the NAT gets to know about clients losing the DHCP lease Aug 21 15:29:04 It takes effort to implement, custom modifications to the kernel networking stack, and is not needed Aug 21 15:29:12 so my bet is on "no" Aug 21 15:29:31 hmm, not needed? Aug 21 15:29:49 they expire eventually on their own anyways Aug 21 15:30:06 and get updated/changed if they collide with a new client Aug 21 15:31:20 if you have port forwards then those wont, and you don't want another device gettings same internal IP (port forwards are always to internal IP, never to MAC or device name) and inheriting the port forwards, or do you...? hmmm Aug 21 15:32:56 STUN might get confused anyway, aiui Aug 21 15:33:48 FYI the factoid did not respond when prompted so I "made" one. It then shows the previous factoid at the time of writing new one. A link is much better than just "Open Media Player" so it was left. No learning required". Aug 21 15:34:06 I think I got this problem since I got two (instead of one) NAT-routers between me and the internets Aug 21 15:36:49 I also agree with MrPingu, It seems some items are replaced and others not. It's not fair that what goes it to CSSU is not clear IMO. Hence the thread I started. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90862 Aug 21 15:37:40 the nasty thing about most NATs: even if you have a port forward :5060 -> :5060, you always get :5060 -> :$random-port as a NAT session when local machine connects out to the internet Aug 21 15:39:26 sixwheeledbeast: a) obviously *much* learning required since you didn't even get what I did to fix what you did. ~omp is a channel-specific factoid, you can't redefine it the way you tried Aug 21 15:40:57 b) the unfortunate fact that e.g. cmaerau-ui2 got into CSSU unconditionally always been blamed as a huge mistake by me. It never should've happened and it's for sure no good logic to use it as rationale for doing same mistake again and again, to be "fair" Aug 21 15:42:42 actually purging perfectly working non-hazardous binaries from any users device, to replace them by some alternative unconditionally, just to "be fair" is as unfair as it gets to the user Aug 21 15:42:52 kerio: I found the package here http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/non-free/s/speex/libspeex1_1.2~rc1-1maemo7%2b0m5_armel.deb and downloaded and installed manually, now cutetube is working, do u know why wasn't it installing normally??!! Aug 21 15:43:32 idk Aug 21 15:43:39 calculator was also replaced it's not just we are talking about nicocam. Aug 21 15:44:19 CSSU is not the playground for devels, where the one can start to cry since it's not "fair" when his project isn't forced onto all users' devices just like his "opponent's" project was Aug 21 15:45:11 DocScrutinizer05: nicocam is fixing severe bug in the stock one. please stop that. Aug 21 15:45:59 sixwheeledbeast: what bugs are OMP and replacement clock-ui fixing? Aug 21 15:46:00 CSSU uis about users and providing a maximum user friendly and FOSS spirited clean way for keeping their devices/systems intact Aug 21 15:46:17 freemangordon: where's the bug ticket? Aug 21 15:46:17 Exactly. there are small bugs in all these foss replacement otherwise why spend time replacing them. Aug 21 15:46:22 sixwheeledbeast: besides being FOSS replacements Aug 21 15:46:36 DocScrutinizer05: on BMO Aug 21 15:46:40 just a minute Aug 21 15:47:14 what are those severe bugs in stock camera that are so hazardous that you can't allow a any unaware user to continue using the stock camera? Aug 21 15:48:15 does it corrupt data on user's storage? Block 911 phonecalls? Burn out the flash LEDs? Aug 21 15:48:53 violate copyright? or even introduce malware or open up vulnerabilities? Aug 21 15:50:18 forced purge is allowable *only* for dangerous apps or programs Aug 21 15:50:50 DocScrutinizer05: recording a pretty much unusable video is sever bug in my book Aug 21 15:51:30 no, it's a minor inconvenience and no reason at all why a program must get revoked so nobody can use it anymore Aug 21 15:52:26 being unable to record video is a minor inconvenience? omg, I am out Aug 21 15:53:24 you say you got the right to force me to not further use stock camera since *you* say it's buggy? Aug 21 15:53:29 bug 7062 Aug 21 15:53:30 04Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/7062 Video camera does not record smoothly Aug 21 15:53:43 I really don't get what#s wrong with you Aug 21 15:54:06 this is the bug in question Aug 21 15:54:40 mhm, is it a showstopper? something that has *any* impact beyond the bug itself? Aug 21 15:55:20 if not then it's no justification to purge the app from all existing devices, no matter if you provide an alternative or not Aug 21 15:56:58 let me put it this way: when we want to force replacement (instead of option to pick one or the other) of any app, then we need a reason good enough to even remove the original app when we wouldn't be able to provide a replacement. Aug 21 15:58:20 I guess 44 votes for that bug are giving CSSU team good enough reason Aug 21 15:58:48 if we can tolerate users to continue use stock app until we can provide the replacement, then it's up to user to decide if he wants to accept our alternative once we provide it or if they rather want to keep the original Aug 21 15:58:50 and honestly, I won't argue with you about nokicam anymore Aug 21 15:59:12 not 1 million votes for any bug give a reason to purge the app Aug 21 15:59:16 both of us are just wasting time Aug 21 16:00:06 the only valid reason to purge an app is a hazardous bug or malware or vulnerabilty/securtity-threat Aug 21 16:01:14 listen buddy, I paid for stock camera app. Who do you think you are to delete it from my device and replace it by sth you think is beter for me, without even asking me? Aug 21 16:02:39 you as well could delete it from my device without replacing it, it wouldn't be any worse and i'd be exactly as angry on you Aug 21 16:04:20 if you don't have a damn good reason not to ask me if I'm content with your replacing action (like "device will explode at random, when using this app. So we deleted it on all devices we could reach"), I think you're a rogue guy Aug 21 16:06:34 I honestly don't get it what makes you think your approach to purge apps at random was any sane Aug 21 16:07:07 at least as long as we got an easy alternative: allowing user to choose Aug 21 16:09:32 absolutely no arguing about how many votes on any bug can make a valid exuse not to give user freedom of choice when we could easily (or even not so easily) do it. Aug 21 16:12:08 and before you start again with your argumentation chain about workload on devels was too high when we give user the freedom of choice: when devels can't handle this simple problem that's actually handlable in max one hour of additional work, then they better stay away from maemo completely, rather than ruining a good system with halfarsed "fixes" Aug 21 16:14:46 for e.g. OMP there's 0, I repeat: *ZERO* sound rationale why it ever should purge stock mediaplayer in an unconditional way that user can't opt-in or opt-out Aug 21 16:19:14 for camera-ui2 there been exactly as litte rationale why user can't have the choice to pick the camera app he prefers Aug 21 16:23:44 nothing wrong with replacing all you seem fit with alternative improved CSSU versions, as long as user at least can opt-out and reinstall the original. But to forcefully purge sth from user's system just because we have an alternative we think is better, that's outright bold and an offense to FOSS spirit Aug 21 16:26:24 how about watsapp nuking SMS functionality for example? Don't we think it#s way better since it doesn't cost use money and it's FOSS unlike the SMS lib in ISI stack? Aug 21 16:26:50 where do we stop forcing our idea onto user? Aug 21 16:27:14 DocScrutinizer05: and there lies the problem with our communication - you talk about FOSS spirit, I talk about software product which I(and the others) support. The fact that this SW product is FOSS (in most of its parts) doesn't change the fact that most of the users don't give a shit about maemo being FOSS or not. As long as it works. Aug 21 16:27:41 just look at yaparri thread and see what kind of users own n900 Aug 21 16:27:55 yappari even Aug 21 16:28:00 maemo is no product. Aug 21 16:28:11 oh, it is Aug 21 16:28:29 no, and even board had to learn this Aug 21 16:28:36 it is what nokia sold you installed on n900 Aug 21 16:28:43 it's a project, no product Aug 21 16:28:55 I am speaking in terms of CSSU Aug 21 16:28:58 and even when it was a product, it's not up to CSSU to manage it Aug 21 16:29:00 not in general Aug 21 16:29:39 freemangordon: ooh, so all the extras stuff is not maemo? Aug 21 16:29:42 uhuh Aug 21 16:29:52 from CSSU POV maemo is SW product Aug 21 16:30:00 wrong Aug 21 16:30:02 IMO Aug 21 16:30:20 yeah, in *your* oppinion, that is flase. sorry Aug 21 16:30:28 I could be wrong, but how is that I feel it. And that is how I try to behave Aug 21 16:30:34 *that is how Aug 21 16:31:27 I bought N900 (and even N810) because it is _not_ a product that some obscure dude or company decides everything for me Aug 21 16:31:49 DocScrutinizer05: but you're not the only n900 user CSSU should take care of. Aug 21 16:32:02 and I think most of maemo users did because of that Aug 21 16:32:30 I don't think so, again, look at yappari thread Aug 21 16:32:58 and even if there are some users who think they want someone to do decisions for them, it's not legit to force same decisions to all the other users Aug 21 16:33:44 DocScrutinizer05: lets agree to disagree and leave merlin1991 to make the decisions about CSSU :) Aug 21 16:34:21 by same rationale you could force all supermarkets to remove everything but snickers from their assortment, since most users buy snickers anyway Aug 21 16:34:49 freemangordon: merlin1991 DID that decission, 18 months ago Aug 21 16:35:17 it's you and another few guys who ignore that and argue against the consequences from that decision ever since Aug 21 16:35:48 well, me another few guys is all of CSSU team Aug 21 16:36:32 oh, so suddenly merlin1991 isn't cssu team anymore, and he's not supposed to do resp enforce that decision? Aug 21 16:36:53 DocScrutinizer05: don't twist my words please Aug 21 16:37:04 you're twisting Aug 21 16:37:59 merlin1991 is the maintainer and afaik there is nothing in CSSU done without his approval Aug 21 16:38:10 however, I have to run Aug 21 16:38:20 * freemangordon is afk Aug 21 16:38:30 we decided to make all apps (optional-)alternative that have any chance to get handled that way. This decision been taken 18months(?) ago in a public meeting Aug 21 16:40:21 there's simply nothing to argue about anymore, anless you again start with threatening to no further contribute to CSSU when we don't *force* alternatives onto users without giving them a choice like every linux user has in every other sane distro Aug 21 16:43:46 I explained in epic painstaking length why the whole problem is in metapackage and that it's up to devels to ship their projects with a proper install file that has all the dependencies they need (like is mandatory on *every* other distro that doesn't have this insane metapackage). Merlin will care about the rest which is: "remove package from mp" and maybe even "add one apt commandline to a shellscript that at some point during CSSU Aug 21 16:43:47 update get executed" Aug 21 16:49:22 as soon as a package isn't entangled to mp anymore, user is free to uninstall it via apt and install the original stock package instead. I don't see _any_ reason why we mustn't do that. I.E. why we should deprive user from his opportunity to use apt to uninstall and install packages to all her/his liking, not limited by any insane metapackage that defines what has to be there and what can't get in due to conflicts with the stuff that has Aug 21 16:49:24 to be there. Aug 21 16:53:09 all this has been discussed during weeks in that period 18 months ago, and finally merlin1991 and me elaborated on how to handle this problem in CSSU for the future. None of you had any objections, so it been agreed upon. Ever since you try to roll back that decision which kinda makes me angry Aug 21 17:14:29 * DocScrutinizer05 notices a quite strange change in general mentality and basic values during last few years. People more and more asking that some authority outlaws or otherwise erradicates all alternative ways or thoughts or preferences that those people consider aren't the true and right ones. Smoking. Alcohol. Recently even meat meals in dining facilities - they are not asking for vegan meals, they demand not offering meat meals. What the heck Aug 21 17:14:30 is this odd mindset? Aug 21 18:00:01 Yo so I finally got my sim card for my data plan. Bit of a question though, how do I set it up for 3g, internet, whatever. I am connected and can go on to sites, but is that the connection that's included in my data plan. There's a connection requiring no passwd in the list called "Telmore Internet" Aug 21 18:00:11 Using this connection draws on my dataplan right? Aug 21 18:01:39 prolly Aug 21 18:02:01 Alrighty, thanks Aug 21 19:33:38 MohammadAG: Sup Aug 21 19:33:41 long time no speak Aug 21 19:38:03 Long time no siege! Aug 21 20:20:45 could I have an option to flash root without modem (cmt?) again? Is it --flash-only ? Aug 21 20:29:38 yep Aug 21 20:29:55 --flash-only rootfs Aug 21 20:29:57 iirc Aug 21 20:37:07 chears I think it works. I worked it out, but wanted to have confirmation Aug 21 20:37:21 just did full flash Aug 21 20:37:24 with emmc Aug 21 20:37:45 now I need backupmenu and kp Aug 21 20:41:26 first of all check /opt Aug 21 20:41:32 then I can simply get to backup anytime Aug 21 20:41:38 fsck? Aug 21 20:41:47 since usually you *must* flash rootfs _after_ eMMC Aug 21 20:42:09 actually I did flash root, emmc, root Aug 21 20:42:10 to make it re-optify aka populate-the-/opt Aug 21 20:42:19 ooh, fine :-.) Aug 21 20:42:28 it lost few things so I flashed rootfs again Aug 21 20:42:36 good Aug 21 20:42:41 that's the foolproof way Aug 21 20:42:54 so that is the reason for emmc, rootfs not otherwise Aug 21 20:43:26 anyway n900 is pretty much foolproof device - you can flash it anytime and it works Aug 21 20:43:43 yes, basically that's correct Aug 21 20:43:53 I love it - I bricked it something like 3-4 times already - no problem to unbrick it Aug 21 20:44:19 rhere's one way to permanently mess up stuff, but you hardly ever run into it, and even less likely by accident Aug 21 20:44:36 oh can I ask hot put lines from sources.list? Aug 21 20:44:41 into ham Aug 21 20:44:46 last one who had that problem got the nickname NAND-tester by this channel's users Aug 21 20:45:34 as I have backup of /etc and others on laptop I would like to write it down to n900 on ham Aug 21 20:45:35 ;-D Aug 21 20:45:49 sorry? Aug 21 20:46:30 I have backup of etc, so sources.list is there as well. I want to add catalogues to ham from it Aug 21 20:46:44 need to learn it anyway Aug 21 20:47:05 errr, only valid automated methos to add catalogs to ham is via .install files Aug 21 20:47:15 method* Aug 21 20:47:25 no, I mean manual way Aug 21 20:47:48 open HAM, go to menu "catalogs" Aug 21 20:47:59 click "add catalog" Aug 21 20:48:02 just need to know how to enter repos from sources.list into ham fields Aug 21 20:49:56 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel#How_to_activate_Extras-devel -- other repos likewise Aug 21 21:01:15 chears Aug 21 21:01:18 got most Aug 21 21:01:27 of what I had previously Aug 21 21:03:27 anyway if you *really want to mess with HAM and apt catalogs/repos on file level, this is what you're looking for: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues Aug 21 21:04:11 everything else apt reƶated gets overwritten by HAM eventually Aug 21 21:04:17 related* Aug 21 21:05:12 or is ignored by HAM but not by fapman and apt-get, which makes for rather confusing behaviour that nobody really appreciates Aug 21 21:06:06 ham is fine for as long as it installs what I want to install, otherwise I use apt Aug 21 21:07:03 the orthodox way to get catalogs installed is to click on following link (or similar links to other .install files), on N900 in microB or xchat: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/repositories.install Aug 21 21:07:08 see: Aug 21 21:07:11 ~jrtools Aug 21 21:07:11 it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Aug 21 21:08:08 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#Additional_Repositories actually Aug 21 21:09:38 ok I have kp52. Is it fine to install cssu-thumb? Aug 21 21:09:59 nothing wrong with using apt in general, you just should know which commands you *never* must use (unless you know *extremely* good what you're doing): apt-get upgrade and any form of autoremove (and probably also -f) Aug 21 21:10:22 WizardNumberNext: for cssu-thunmb you first want to install cssu Aug 21 21:10:29 I avoid doing anything fancy with aprt Aug 21 21:10:30 ~cssu Aug 21 21:10:30 methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Aug 21 21:10:48 yeah I am definitely not going straight to thumb Aug 21 21:10:56 first testing Aug 21 21:11:07 cssu-thumb basing on cssu as cssu bases on fremantle Aug 21 21:12:32 think of e.g. pacman repositories for opensuse: they are not a replacement but an auxiliary supplementary repo that needs the base installation repo underneath Aug 21 21:12:42 hey, what's the etymology behind the name choice "thumb"? Aug 21 21:12:52 nfc Aug 21 21:12:52 thumbnail Aug 21 21:12:55 ask ARM Aug 21 21:13:35 * DocScrutinizer05 shouts "OUCH" each time he hears "thumbnailer" Aug 21 21:14:35 user 1950 0.0 1.3 14912 3296 ? Ssl 17:08 0:06 /usr/libexec/hildon-thumbnailerd Aug 21 21:15:12 do I really want a deamon on my device that's nailing my thumbs? Aug 21 21:21:30 that sounds highly uncomfortable Aug 21 21:21:50 nailing thumb demon of maemo Aug 21 21:22:10 maybe he's the one breaking those usb micro ports Aug 21 21:59:10 hi, why don't work the gprs/gsm/umts... internet access on my N900 anymore? I tried the sim on a android-smartphone with success but on Maemo I only get an IP with gprs-device and cannot reach a website.. Aug 21 22:03:20 I will ask tomorrow again Aug 21 22:22:40 DocScrutinizer05: actually, fucking up CAL won't do much Aug 21 22:23:30 raccoon_: are you talking about cssu-thumb? Aug 22 00:23:30 kerio: raccoon_ talked about /usr/libexec/hildon-thumbnailerd ;-) Aug 22 00:23:36 k Aug 22 00:24:00 mmh, maybe it's because thumb nails are kinda small? Aug 22 00:26:38 some weirdos (actually punks) explained to their friend that he needs a properly made earring piercing. They placed him on a wooden table with his ear on the table, used a nail and a hammer and pierced the ear ;-P... Aug 22 00:27:26 then they said "duh, don't meove, while we go searching for a pliers to pull the nail out of the table" Aug 22 00:28:41 punk pranks Aug 22 00:29:20 though I heard carpenters love that very prank as well Aug 22 00:32:04 golden comment of a bystander: "GUY, _you_ got a huuuuge earring!" Aug 22 00:48:47 Is wiki missing one CSS file? Aug 22 00:49:11 https://wiki.maemo.org/skins/monobookmaemo2009/FF2Fixes.css Aug 22 01:13:57 int_ua: why do you think this is needed/used by wiki? Aug 22 01:15:45 what apt repositories should one use? the ones that cojme.by default have expired keys Aug 22 01:15:56 DocScrutinizer05, wiki was broken several minutes ago, now it's fine again Aug 22 01:22:48 where is email stored in vb6 Aug 22 01:29:31 benedikt: only the nokia repos. Those don't have any updates you would want to install anyway. and the expired key is only causing a Warning afaik, you can simply ignore it. If it actually causes problems, I heard you can simply change the date on your N900 to something in 2011 Aug 22 01:30:54 int_ua: that's caused by high load on www VM that also hosts static.maemo.org which serves the css and other static stuff for wiki, bugs, whatnot else Aug 22 01:31:48 and using https probably doesn't help on that ;-) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 22 02:59:58 2013