**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 13 02:59:58 2013 Sep 13 04:15:09 hm Sep 13 04:15:21 why does the scrolling on the n900 seem so flakey? Sep 13 04:15:32 like sometimes it will go the wrong way Sep 13 04:15:45 or sometimes it will fly upward off a simple swipe Sep 13 04:15:55 is there a way to adjust that sensitivity? Sep 13 04:17:33 the strangest is the slight delay from drag to move Sep 13 04:17:59 it almost takes 2s for the n900 to realize it has been asked to scroll by dragging the screen Sep 13 06:59:33 DocScrutinizer05: i'm not entirely sure how the vodka is supposed to help Sep 13 06:59:43 but whatever works for you **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 13 07:16:32 2013 Sep 13 09:09:32 happy programmers' day everybuddy! Sep 13 09:29:41 programmers day? Sep 13 09:31:13 Macer, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmers'_Day Sep 13 09:45:33 dafuq happens to githogori Sep 13 10:12:24 Macer; I don't see that Sep 13 10:12:38 Although my firefox phone does that Sep 13 10:28:33 kerio: the vodka been untouched since no ice cubes Sep 13 10:28:49 you should've made ice cubes out of vodka Sep 13 11:22:48 I'm trying to, it doesn't work Sep 13 11:23:16 my vodka is a decent one that simply doesn't freeze in standard freezers Sep 13 11:24:09 * DocScrutinizer05 waves a last farewell to voyager1 Sep 13 11:25:32 kerio: I actually froze vodka with less RPM in my freezer, but not this 100proof stuff Sep 13 11:27:04 even with standard 86proof (43%) vodka you don't get solid ice cubes but only something like frappe´ Sep 13 11:27:35 shake bottle to turn it into sth of ketchup viscosity Sep 13 11:28:01 50% only gets oily Sep 13 11:30:02 hi guys Sep 13 11:30:14 i am a new n900 user Sep 13 11:30:46 how do i change the update check frequency in HAM? Sep 13 11:31:02 everytime i open HAM it checks for an update which is VERY annoying Sep 13 11:31:16 in fact i think everytime i navigate between menus in HAM it checks Sep 13 11:32:11 HAM is pretty annoying... there was some file where you can specify the update interval but I forget where, used it once to disable it altogether Sep 13 11:33:55 though it's the background check for updates, doesn't affect behavior of HAM and the updating between transitions I think Sep 13 12:01:15 It would help with apt if repository/Packages* would not list gazillion versions for each package. For example, kernel-power has three versions in extras/fremantle-1.3/free alone, and on my installation apt-cache policy lists five versions. Sep 13 12:09:41 joga: right Sep 13 12:10:31 wnd: check the package file for mp-fremantle* Sep 13 12:10:48 you'll have a lot of LULZ Sep 13 12:11:03 it's ~100k Sep 13 12:11:22 listing all packages of all versions since PR1.0 Sep 13 12:11:43 same for CSSU Sep 13 12:12:25 merlin1991: you maybe should start a move for getting your "light" repo into official extras-* Sep 13 12:13:27 would safe our environment and all our healtcare systems all over the world Sep 13 12:13:30 ;-) Sep 13 12:13:38 save* Sep 13 12:14:34 merlin1991 prepared a repo with a packages.gz that lists *only* the latest package releases Sep 13 12:14:57 I think it's ~10% of the original one Sep 13 12:15:37 Do I have any chance of ever obtaining a Nokia N950 ? Sep 13 12:18:03 How many Nokia N950s exist? Sep 13 12:21:57 I too once played with the idea of creating a shadow respository that only hosts metadata and issues redirects for actual packages Sep 13 12:26:49 Back then I gave up the idea when I realised I'd have to resolve version dependencies to avoid breaking stuff. It should not have been be a big thing, but I was hopelessly busy with other things. Sep 13 12:27:38 and I'm sure there would've been other stuff to deal with, such as apt not following redirects... Sep 13 12:27:49 I've never tried that, really Sep 13 12:39:15 brolin_empey: about 5000 on the whole world Sep 13 12:58:07 wnd: like debian.net does? Sep 13 12:58:26 er, http.debian.net Sep 13 13:04:05 uhh, I have aircrack-ng but no airmon-ng, why? I'm on thumb Sep 13 13:19:28 anybody? Sep 13 13:23:19 ShadowJK: no idea what it is Sep 13 13:23:29 the scrolling (dragging screens) just seems off Sep 13 13:23:33 ETAB? Sep 13 13:23:38 like i said. sometimes trying to move something down will make it go up lol Sep 13 13:24:03 'apt-cache policy aircrack-ng' says that I have 1.1-maemo12 version installed, that's good. But where is my airmon-ng?? Sep 13 13:24:11 i am a new n900 owner and am trying to install x11vnc Sep 13 13:24:17 i have the extra repos enabled Sep 13 13:24:25 but cant find it in HAM under all Sep 13 13:24:41 can someone help me Sep 13 13:25:01 oooaaaooo1: i'm pretty sure vncviewer is in extras Sep 13 13:25:36 oooaaaooo1: x11vnc package exists for me, are you sure that all of the repos are enabled? Sep 13 13:25:50 and that update has finished successfully? Sep 13 13:25:58 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/vncviewer/ Sep 13 13:26:12 Sysaxed: well it finished yesterday Sep 13 13:26:24 Sysaxed: its annoying now so i stop it Sep 13 13:26:44 Sysaxed: do you mean i have to pull in metadata everytime? Sep 13 13:27:27 oooaaaooo1: not every time, but do it again Sep 13 13:27:48 if your repos are set up correctly then it is the only reason Sep 13 13:28:05 Sysaxed: its soooooo annoying Sep 13 13:28:26 oooaaaooo1: but how could it know that package 'x11vnc' exists? Sep 13 13:28:30 ~pkg Sep 13 13:28:30 i guess pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ Sep 13 13:29:06 DocScrutinizer05: that page wont help apt-get to see if the package really exists :D Sep 13 13:29:16 Sysaxed: yesterday? Sep 13 13:29:16 pff Sep 13 13:29:28 DocScrutinizer05: anyway, could you be so kind to help me? Sep 13 13:29:45 I have aircrack-ng installed but there is no airmon-ng on my system Sep 13 13:29:57 no airodump as well Sep 13 13:30:02 I don't think airmon exists on N900 Sep 13 13:30:15 airodump though should Sep 13 13:30:16 oooaaaooo: maybe it didn't make it till the end? Sep 13 13:30:31 Sysaxed: alright how do i know its made it? Sep 13 13:30:45 DocScrutinizer05: there are lots of videos with people using airmon Sep 13 13:31:10 also this page http://maemo.org/packages/view/aircrack-ng/ says that it contains everything Sep 13 13:31:34 then it will do this Sep 13 13:32:03 oooaaaooo: you can try 'apt-get update' manually Sep 13 13:32:53 tabtab http://privatepaste.com/5573e09443 Sep 13 13:33:36 need policy? Sep 13 13:33:44 DocScrutinizer05: "aircrack-ng airdecap-ng airdecloak-ng airolib-ng" for me Sep 13 13:34:10 apt-cache policy aircrack-ng says "Installed: 1.1-maemo12" Sep 13 13:34:33 Installed: 1.1-maemo12 Sep 13 13:35:03 *** 1.1-maemo12 0 Sep 13 13:35:04 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Sep 13 13:35:10 any suggestions? apt-get install --reinstall aircrack-ng ? Sep 13 13:35:16 why not Sep 13 13:35:20 DocScrutinizer05: is apt-get update safe ? Sep 13 13:35:30 update? SURE Sep 13 13:35:50 Sysaxed: maybe there's just no airmon-ng in that package Sep 13 13:35:53 upGRade is NOT Sep 13 13:35:54 dpkg -L aircrack-ng Sep 13 13:36:01 it'll list every file in the package Sep 13 13:36:03 DocScrutinizer05: gitcha Sep 13 13:36:07 gotcha Sep 13 13:36:47 kerio: /opt/maemo/usr/sbin/airmon-ng Sep 13 13:36:53 and that's it? Sep 13 13:36:55 kerio: which means that it simply didn't get to PATH yet? Sep 13 13:36:59 reboot? Sep 13 13:37:01 oh Sep 13 13:37:04 mh Sep 13 13:37:07 just restart the shell maybe? Sep 13 13:37:23 i assume there's symlinks in /usr/sbin Sep 13 13:37:27 http://privatepaste.com/8073ac396e Sep 13 13:37:29 ...also, are you running it as root? Sep 13 13:37:37 auto-optify Sep 13 13:37:43 reboot Sep 13 13:37:44 ! Sep 13 13:37:53 kerio: no, not as root Sep 13 13:37:58 OH... root... Sep 13 13:38:13 LOL Sep 13 13:38:15 sbin isn't in user's default path Sep 13 13:38:17 whoops... Sep 13 13:39:25 yeah, root... Sep 13 13:39:31 that was noobish :D Sep 13 13:39:38 thanks Sep 13 13:40:49 * DocScrutinizer05 highfives kerio Sep 13 13:40:57 o/ Sep 13 13:44:33 just out of curiosity how often are the repos updated? Sep 13 13:46:06 every time some new package gets promoted to one of them Sep 13 13:47:24 DocScrutinizer05: and if nothing new is added does that mean apt-get still pulls in and overrides the existing metadata? Sep 13 13:48:17 usually not, since the datestamp in Packages.gz is unchanged then Sep 13 13:48:59 so it just pulls the Packages.gz metadata from server and finds that datestamp didn't change Sep 13 13:49:05 DocScrutinizer05: so its date stamp and not a checksum or anything Sep 13 13:49:22 not a checksum done on N900 Sep 13 13:49:44 I don't know exactly what is used, seems to be a standard http thing Sep 13 13:49:54 your browser does all same Sep 13 13:50:12 and uses cache when content supposedly not changed Sep 13 13:50:38 im just thinking if it was a checksum then it could be calculated at each update and everytime update is run it would only have to compare checksum which is time independant Sep 13 13:50:54 obviously would fail if repos are frequenctly updated Sep 13 13:50:59 that's what it does, basically Sep 13 13:51:24 o ok Sep 13 13:53:07 there's a bug in HAM maybe, around that feature. I investigated some years ago and found they do some "magic" there to avoid updating each time you installed a package or whatever, comparing age of local cache to some 2h(?) threshold Sep 13 13:55:24 iirc there *might* be some issue with the local cached version written to /x/y/A/pkg.gz but checked for age of /x/y/a/pkg.gz, or sth like that Sep 13 13:56:11 i seeeeee Sep 13 13:57:15 but then, most of the time HAM is burning is not for download of packages.gz but for building the internal data structures (trees? lists?) and loading all the icons for the loooong list of all available packages Sep 13 13:57:49 no its always saying checking for updates, when i navigate between menus Sep 13 13:58:01 in ham Sep 13 13:58:08 the progress bar? Sep 13 13:58:15 yeah Sep 13 13:58:20 that's bad Sep 13 13:59:00 somebody should investigate and fix that Sep 13 13:59:42 problem #1: it's ham Sep 13 14:00:09 s/it's ham/I don't like HAM" Sep 13 14:01:38 this isnt really a maemo question but im used to searching with aptitude and since my n900 doesnt have aptitude can i search packages using apt-get? Sep 13 14:02:01 no, but you can search packages with apt-cache Sep 13 14:02:04 apt-cache search Sep 13 14:02:28 would it be alright to apt-get install? Sep 13 14:02:35 depends Sep 13 14:02:50 usually yes, but duck and cover when not Sep 13 14:03:16 what should i watch out for Sep 13 14:03:27 that's not easy to answer Sep 13 14:03:31 ok Sep 13 14:03:40 generally if the package is specific for maemo Sep 13 14:03:57 debian packages that just got ported usually are safe Sep 13 14:04:12 except some of them lack optification Sep 13 14:04:59 some specific maemo stuff though is depending/relying on HAM properties that are not available via apt Sep 13 14:05:11 apt-cache search shows x11vnc Sep 13 14:05:16 like pop-up of hildon desktop based requesters etc Sep 13 14:05:55 ok so debian/general bash stuff should be ok Sep 13 14:06:16 e.g sshd pops up a requester for root password when installed via HAM. Dunno what it does when you install via apt-get Sep 13 14:06:27 it pops up a requester for root password :) Sep 13 14:06:43 :-P Sep 13 14:07:16 some other packages might even change runlevel to suspend whole system, before they install Sep 13 14:07:39 doh... failed to apt-get update because i had HAM running :s Sep 13 14:07:49 start over padawan Sep 13 14:07:52 :s Sep 13 14:08:21 yeah, takes an additional 60s after closing HAM, until lockfile gets removed Sep 13 14:08:37 not with cssu's ham Sep 13 14:08:43 :nod: Sep 13 14:09:45 so cssu uses another ham? Sep 13 14:09:58 it has some bugfixes, yeah Sep 13 14:10:02 nice Sep 13 14:10:33 and eventually might even come with specific CSSU related extensions Sep 13 14:11:08 IF SOMEBODY WOULD BOTHER to finaly implement that silly simple sh*t Sep 13 14:11:46 instead of all the time bitching about nonsensical assumed "new repos" for handling optional stuff Sep 13 14:12:25 IF we'd go for new repos, we wouldn't even need any patches to HAM to handle optional Sep 13 14:13:10 the design/concept however been to use another group besides of "user" that you "hide" optional packages in Sep 13 14:13:39 thus optional packages just go to group "optional" instead of group "user" Sep 13 14:14:12 and HAM had to learn do handle CONFLICTS Sep 13 14:14:25 * zammy is away: I'm busy Sep 13 14:14:46 zammy: please fix your auto-away. It's strongly deprecated! Sep 13 14:16:03 goldenbot??? Sep 13 14:16:16 nice vnc works Sep 13 14:16:47 zammy: if you're a regular human user, answer immediately. Otherwise you will get banned as unsolicited bot Sep 13 14:17:39 its some xchat fork (hexchat) Sep 13 14:17:51 ahh, ok Sep 13 14:18:17 atleast ctcp version reply looks like it.. probably just a coincidence Sep 13 14:18:22 about the email address Sep 13 14:18:29 maybe Sep 13 14:19:03 hey Sep 13 14:19:11 * zammy is away: I'm busy Sep 13 14:19:15 registered 22 weeks ago Sep 13 14:19:16 * zammy is back (gone 00:00:03) Sep 13 14:19:22 what? Sep 13 14:19:23 FIx DAT! Sep 13 14:19:47 switch off your auto-away notice! Sep 13 14:20:19 because...? Sep 13 14:20:39 because it's deprecated! and nobody gives a F* anyway Sep 13 14:21:13 If I want to know about you being busy, I check that on your nick in user list Sep 13 14:21:28 no need to spam the channel with [2013-09-13 16:19:16] * zammy is back (gone 00:00:03) Sep 13 14:22:13 IRC has better means for signaling being away, just use it instead of sending messages to the room Sep 13 14:23:05 but I never tested this f* feature Sep 13 14:23:24 are you able to forgive my little and singular test? Sep 13 14:23:36 can you? DocScrutinizer05 Sep 13 14:23:54 odds are freenode spamcheck bot bans you from network (k-line) when you send this post to more than one channel Sep 13 14:24:00 do you think I can continue to join maemo channel? Sep 13 14:24:35 I'm not angry at you, just please don't use "send auto-away notice" Sep 13 14:24:57 it's really "dangerous" for you Sep 13 14:25:08 and annoying for everybody else Sep 13 14:25:32 alright... if the freenode server bots kickban me, I will accept that and after recognizing the error I will fix BY MY SELF Sep 13 14:25:38 thanks for any interest Sep 13 14:25:44 when freenode bot k-lines you, you need to send an email to freenode to get unbanned Sep 13 14:25:58 I know Sep 13 14:26:16 and never happened, some reason I suppose there is... Sep 13 14:27:53 also the user name goldenbot90@gmail.com is not the best start to make friends on IRC. Just saying Sep 13 14:28:05 DocScrutinizer05: auto-away notice is deprecated? Was it ever "supported"? Sep 13 14:28:20 RFC 1459 already had AWAY Sep 13 14:28:26 well, what is "supported"? Sep 13 14:28:51 I don't think something can be deprecated if it never was standard to begin with :) Sep 13 14:29:01 sending automated posts to IRC channels always been kind of deprecated Sep 13 14:29:17 to me deprecated means it's an old legacy and once made sense. These messages never did. Sep 13 14:29:31 ~dict deprecate Sep 13 14:29:33 and anyway it is not an auto-away notice Sep 13 14:29:34 Dictionary 'deprecate' (1 of 4): express strong disapproval of; deplore. Sep 13 14:29:36 just saying Sep 13 14:29:55 yes, it's a spam ;) Sep 13 14:29:56 ha Sep 13 14:30:16 ~dict defenestrate Sep 13 14:30:20 Dictionary 'defenestrate' (2): \de*fen"es*trate\ (d[-e]*f[e^]n"[e^]s*tr[=a]t), v. t. to throw (something or someone) out of a window. [PJC] ;; throw through or out of the window; "The rebels stormed the palace and defenestrated the President". Sep 13 14:30:23 hehe, by that definition, you can introduce an API and deprecate it at the same time :) Sep 13 14:30:33 fun, I'd agree with meaning from divVerent Sep 13 14:30:38 Here is a more appropriate word Sep 13 14:30:44 spam is a repetition of the same action I think, don't you Sep 13 14:30:48 ~autoaway Sep 13 14:30:49 somebody said autoaway was We don't care if you're 'afk', 'having a shower' or 'doing my wife'. If we really want to know, we'll /whois you. So please disable any public messages your client sends when you go /away or come back, as there are over 800 people here. If everyone did something annoying, we'd never get any conversation in. In BX, /set auto_away off. /saveirc, or nick changes are just as annoying. Sep 13 14:30:49 zammy: yes Sep 13 14:30:52 once to every channel Sep 13 14:30:59 zammy: actually, no Sep 13 14:31:03 from server's view that is a repetition, thus spam Sep 13 14:31:07 reperition is "flood" Sep 13 14:31:11 divverent: of course you can. But any standard that are too much of a moving target will not be widely implemented. Sep 13 14:31:12 but yes Sep 13 14:31:19 spam by its own definition is an unsolicited message Sep 13 14:31:26 what does optified mean./ Sep 13 14:31:36 moved to /opt (partially or whole) Sep 13 14:31:39 to save space on / Sep 13 14:31:40 * RST38h wonders what made respectable public discuss such an arcane linguistic issue Sep 13 14:31:55 :) Sep 13 14:32:02 Who the fuck cares if repeating the same message "spam" or "flood"? Sep 13 14:32:11 divVerent: so / is on system & /opt is on sd? Sep 13 14:32:12 ~optification Sep 13 14:32:12 optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" Sep 13 14:32:36 RST38h: trolls Sep 13 14:32:42 unsolicited means also automatation stuff Sep 13 14:32:43 ;-) Sep 13 14:32:45 oooaaaooo: on emmc Sep 13 14:32:56 well someone presumed that was an automation stuff Sep 13 14:33:00 BTW, the worst thing ever you can do on IRC is doing automated replies to NOTICE Sep 13 14:33:03 zammy: take it to #linguistics Sep 13 14:33:04 that's the fault Sep 13 14:33:08 divVerent: so /opt is on mmc Sep 13 14:33:16 and I know most nickserv scripts do that Sep 13 14:33:31 oooaaaooo: yep Sep 13 14:33:58 In the old days, one should always reply with a NOTICE if one had an automated reply, too. Sep 13 14:34:11 I think that one is widely ignored nowadays. Sep 13 14:34:12 sort of, yes Sep 13 14:34:23 unless your response is supposed to trigger a reply Sep 13 14:34:24 you are involving me into lazy and dirty, more drunky rather than the rest SPEECHES Sep 13 14:34:40 Veggen: for some reason, since [notice] gets ignored by other bots Sep 13 14:34:43 so technically some nickserv related messages should be PRIVMSG, not NOTICE :P Sep 13 14:34:59 NO bot is ever supposed to reply to NOTICE :P Sep 13 14:35:13 it's a MUST in the RFC Sep 13 14:35:23 yep Sep 13 14:35:29 wait, THIS I didn't know Sep 13 14:35:30 *I* know that Sep 13 14:35:34 not even the IRC server may respond to a NOTICE Sep 13 14:35:51 ah, it indeed does that right :P Sep 13 14:36:10 bots are supposed to send NOTICE only, so no endless loops may happen Sep 13 14:36:40 bots in this context is slightly different definition to what e.g. infobot does Sep 13 14:36:44 that was never explicitly written down... for a good reason Sep 13 14:36:55 as there can be more interactive bots Sep 13 14:37:02 e.g. the typical nickserv dialogue Sep 13 14:37:15 which however ended up being done the wrong way round :( Sep 13 14:37:19 how do i display all my desktops at once? you know like a birds eye view? Sep 13 14:37:22 on n900 Sep 13 14:37:38 not at all Sep 13 14:37:41 like gnome i believe its ctrl + down Sep 13 14:37:43 well I continue to watch porn on my n900 Sep 13 14:37:51 hehe, infobot... SHOULDN't this one technically send all replies by NOTICE? Sep 13 14:37:58 (as notice to the channel, then) Sep 13 14:38:00 zammy: seems you're in a trolly mood, eh? Sep 13 14:38:04 if only clients handled this the right way :P Sep 13 14:38:10 oh really? Sep 13 14:38:12 don't you? Sep 13 14:38:33 There was another unwritten rule that bots should never speak in public. Sep 13 14:38:40 in the old days. Sep 13 14:38:51 ancient eras? Sep 13 14:38:57 Veggen: yes. Sep 13 14:39:07 Veggen: but bots today do that. Sep 13 14:39:21 I see the advantage of having it do so, but if you wanted it, you could just as well cut&paste the answer yourself. Sep 13 14:39:29 BTW, if you are in a warez xdcc channel... should all the bots really use PRIVMSG to spam the channel every few sec? Sep 13 14:39:30 divvergent: I know. Sep 13 14:39:51 I also wrote a kind of IRC bot that REALLY has to use PRIVMSG for what it does :P Sep 13 14:40:00 it is a two-way relay bot between a game server and IRC Sep 13 14:40:11 Veggen: hehe I like that nick typo ;-P Sep 13 14:40:22 where is convVergent? Sep 13 14:40:28 and detTergent? Sep 13 14:40:56 DocScrutinizer05: what irc client do you use? Sep 13 14:41:03 anyway, the N900 doesn't support porn. I checked the data sheet by Nokia, porn isn't mentioned anywhere. Sep 13 14:41:06 ;) Sep 13 14:41:11 Konversation on PC, xchat on maemo Sep 13 14:41:43 dang, we evidently got Friday convo in here ;-P Sep 13 14:41:53 Friday convo? Sep 13 14:41:56 it does sound fridayish Sep 13 14:42:02 if you can view porn on the N900, that is an accidental fearture and not supported by Nokia. Maybe gets fixed in next release. Sep 13 14:42:08 Friday Friday, gotta get down on Friday-ish? Sep 13 14:44:14 THAT silenced the channel. Sep 13 14:45:15 who the hell invented WPS? Such an asshole. Sep 13 14:45:58 From wikipedia: Wi-Fi Protected Setup (WPS; originally Wi-Fi Simple Config) is a computing standard that attempts to allow easy establishment of a secure wireless home network. Sep 13 14:46:00 the NSA, why? Sep 13 14:46:05 yeah, even if you don't have the password Sep 13 14:46:27 easy as pie Sep 13 14:46:34 it means that the attacker only has to wait for someone to press the button Sep 13 14:46:51 nope Sep 13 14:46:53 nope, attacker has to wait for 5 hours Sep 13 14:46:58 and that's all Sep 13 14:47:01 there's a flaw in password handling Sep 13 14:47:03 rumor has it, the NSA orders small children to press these WPS buttons randomly for them. Sep 13 14:47:08 dos1: depends on the kind of WPS :) Sep 13 14:47:12 you can bruteforce it in few hours Sep 13 14:47:21 the one I know from the routers common here only have WPS active when the button was recently pressed Sep 13 14:47:23 why would NSA need access to wireless routers? What for? Sep 13 14:47:34 Sysaxed: you know, access to the ISPs costs money :P Sep 13 14:47:42 divVerent: and on some routers that's true even if you have password disabled and rely only on button :P Sep 13 14:47:51 dos1: haha, didn't know that Sep 13 14:47:55 but well Sep 13 14:47:59 I always turn WPS off anyway Sep 13 14:48:06 I am too stupid to use it anyway Sep 13 14:48:10 divVerent: forcing hardware manufactures to include shitty WPS should cost something as well Sep 13 14:48:31 divVerent: did you know that turning it off usually doesn't help? Sep 13 14:48:44 I find it a lot easier to just set up a WPA supplicant config file than trying to figure out how to do WPS with that Sep 13 14:48:44 :) Sep 13 14:48:44 Sysaxed: that's the trick, it's not forced Sep 13 14:48:58 Sysaxed: it should Sep 13 14:49:03 my Android phone shows WPS enabled networks twice in the list' Sep 13 14:49:12 when I turn off WPS, it only shows up once Sep 13 14:49:21 so if the router isn't totally stupid, it should honor that too Sep 13 14:49:24 divVerent: sometimes it doesn't. Shows as "wps is locked" but router still replies to bruteforcing Sep 13 14:49:26 (when receiving, that is) Sep 13 14:49:40 well, yes, there ARE totally stupid routers, too Sep 13 14:49:41 yeah, there are some routers that just lock wps instead of turning it off Sep 13 14:49:50 but that's not that common Sep 13 14:50:02 but anyway, if anyone wants to get into my WLAN, go ahead Sep 13 14:50:09 but I won't delete my .ssh/known_hosts for you Sep 13 14:50:24 if I get this SSH warning, I take it serious :) Sep 13 14:50:50 divVerent: how would that save you from arp injection? Sep 13 14:50:53 and anything else is unencrypted anyway Sep 13 14:50:56 Sysaxed: it would not Sep 13 14:51:02 but internet traffic is public ANYWAY Sep 13 14:51:11 what about your passwords? :) Sep 13 14:51:18 my WLAN is *open* Sep 13 14:51:18 depends on which Sep 13 14:51:21 I use different everywhere Sep 13 14:51:44 if I use SSL, I know anyone with enough resources (i.e. money) can intercept that Sep 13 14:51:55 i'm not silly enough to use WLAN when I can use proper cat5 Sep 13 14:52:03 all it takes is paying someone to get a root certificate Sep 13 14:52:05 does anybody know if AP isolation solves the problem with arp injection? Sep 13 14:52:12 why does it even matter Sep 13 14:52:31 DocScrutinizer05: that doesn't save you from arp injection as well Sep 13 14:52:38 DocScrutinizer05: in my case, it's WLAN only so there's one less wire for my baby son to pull Sep 13 14:52:40 *shrug* Sep 13 14:53:22 but anyway Sep 13 14:53:28 arp injection is not a problem to begin with Sep 13 14:53:50 the reason why my WLAN is password protected is merely so it's less likely I get nasty lawyer letters Sep 13 14:53:50 tell that to my neighbors Sep 13 14:54:04 I know if anyone really wants to get in, they can Sep 13 14:54:17 but Joe P2P will just pick someone else's open WLAN then Sep 13 14:54:25 there is one in my neighborhood Sep 13 14:55:09 divVerent: I log each MAC that logs in. No more I can do Sep 13 14:55:52 so if they track some P2P down to my IP, I hand them the list of MAC that used my WLAN, and they are free to hunt those users Sep 13 14:56:19 they tried all the legal threats here Sep 13 14:56:24 I'm allowed to share my WLAN, and there's no obligation to block certain usage Sep 13 14:56:27 now the guy is no longr a lawyer Sep 13 14:56:29 lol Sep 13 14:56:38 the guy who sent letters Sep 13 14:56:39 DocScrutinizer05: how could they know that it is not your mac? Sep 13 14:56:56 but ok, you're right Sep 13 14:56:59 I simply don't care if they know or not Sep 13 14:57:31 THEY have to prove ME that *I* did sharing or other "crime" Sep 13 14:57:51 filesharing that is, NOT wlan sharing Sep 13 14:58:13 why tehy said in the UK, dont respond to such letters Sep 13 14:58:35 then that idiot decided to take somebody to court, and the whole house of cards collapsed Sep 13 14:58:49 then he got struck off as a lawyer Sep 13 14:59:02 and his practice went bust lol Sep 13 14:59:03 if they want to, I rent them a room in my house where two dudes with trenchcoat and huge hat can wait all day and all night monitoring my WLAN for P2P guests logging in Sep 13 14:59:15 DocScrutinizer05, haha Sep 13 14:59:36 at excessive rates, no doubt Sep 13 14:59:53 like some guy here did with nuisance phone calls Sep 13 15:00:13 got himself a 08xx number, and got paid by marketing companies Sep 13 15:00:22 who kept ringing up Sep 13 15:00:29 09xxx Sep 13 15:00:31 made £300 in the first 6 months Sep 13 15:00:42 he just kept talking to them Sep 13 15:00:50 08 is supposed to be free of charge Sep 13 15:00:59 not 087x Sep 13 15:01:23 are they stupid enough to call on that number? Sep 13 15:01:31 Sysaxed, absolutely Sep 13 15:01:32 you can identify it just by looking on it Sep 13 15:01:37 all automated Sep 13 15:01:49 they buy the numbers in the phone book and dial Sep 13 15:01:51 rofl Sep 13 15:02:07 sometimes illegally , if you are registered with the TPS Sep 13 15:02:12 in the UK, anyway Sep 13 15:02:22 for that I'd even go publish my number in phonebook ;-P Sep 13 15:02:26 * LinuxCode is registered, and still gets 10 calls a week Sep 13 15:02:32 DocScrutinizer05, innit Sep 13 15:02:35 no unsolicited phonecalls at all here Sep 13 15:02:45 DocScrutinizer05, you based in the UK ? Sep 13 15:02:50 nope, D Sep 13 15:02:53 hehe Sep 13 15:02:59 what if I am in another country? Would they pay for that huge bill? Sep 13 15:03:05 fortunately for you, Indians dont speak german Sep 13 15:03:34 dang 17:03 Sep 13 15:03:42 Sysaxed, if you could get BT or another compnay to list your number Sep 13 15:03:45 I am sure they would Sep 13 15:03:53 DocScrutinizer05, indeed Sep 13 15:04:02 time flying by quickly today Sep 13 15:04:27 not just today... Sep 13 15:04:41 yesterday I was like "wtf? Friday tomorrow? But friday was yesterday" Sep 13 15:05:03 getting darker again Sep 13 15:05:10 probably why Sep 13 15:05:33 how do i connect to a static(not dhcp) connection in n900? Sep 13 15:05:41 oooaaaooo: ifconfig? Sep 13 15:07:03 I cannot believe that. After bruteforcing 7000 wps pins that router has finally freaked out. Sep 13 15:07:07 oooaaaooo, Settings> Internet Connections>New Sep 13 15:07:20 and now, when I'm just 700 away from cracking it, it simply doesn't respond anymore Sep 13 15:07:44 Sysaxed, lol Sep 13 15:07:50 fail2ban for wlan ? Sep 13 15:07:52 ;-p Sep 13 15:08:32 I have tried changing my mac, I've even switched to another device Sep 13 15:09:26 that's not fair. Sep 13 15:14:11 LinuxCode: i have done that but all i get is "finish" & not an actual connect option Sep 13 15:14:49 top task bar click on that Sep 13 15:15:12 or tap rather Sep 13 15:17:42 and Sep 13 15:17:43 ? Sep 13 15:17:49 it should show the one i just added? Sep 13 15:18:39 im rebooting Sep 13 15:18:47 it keeps asking for a pass and then failing Sep 13 15:18:58 eventhough i already defined the pass in the settings menu Sep 13 15:59:30 DocScrutinizer05: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4210413&cid=44840495 Sep 13 16:02:12 dos1: HAH! Sep 13 16:12:53 guys i need help to make a choice Sep 13 16:14:04 i need to choose from N9 16GB or Lumia 920 Sep 13 16:14:10 N9 Sep 13 16:14:11 but I already got a N950 Sep 13 16:14:15 N9 Sep 13 16:14:29 * sledges doesn't feel impartial Sep 13 16:14:36 i wont use any of those... Sep 13 16:14:41 I want to sell it Sep 13 16:14:42 l Sep 13 16:14:48 which one would sell for a higher price? Sep 13 16:15:37 ok, sell N9 to me then Sep 13 16:15:41 :))) Sep 13 16:15:58 nokia promised me to send me a N9 64GB, but they told me now that they only have 16GB :/ Sep 13 16:16:07 sledges, how much u want to pay for it? Sep 13 16:16:22 (i had some warranty issues with my N900, thats why they showed me those options) Sep 13 16:17:21 ? Sep 13 16:18:20 ebay gives ~£120 Sep 13 16:18:24 I'd give you £80 Sep 13 16:19:21 hmm.. lumia 920 still goes around for €250 - €300 Sep 13 16:19:29 guess it's better to pick the 920 then Sep 13 16:19:45 * sledges cheers! Sep 13 16:19:49 :D Sep 13 16:20:41 free 300 EUR Sep 13 16:20:54 that means Neo900 will only cost 400 EUR to you! :) Sep 13 16:21:47 i want a laptop Sep 13 16:21:49 with GTX780M Sep 13 16:21:52 16GB Ram Sep 13 16:22:00 1TB HDD 128GB SSD Sep 13 16:22:12 and windows xp Sep 13 16:22:35 lol Sep 13 16:23:00 it is around €1700 Sep 13 16:23:27 what CPU? Sep 13 16:25:20 intel i7 4700QM Sep 13 16:26:44 nice specs but quite expensive Sep 13 16:29:01 how much will just the board cost... Sep 13 16:29:09 for the neo900 Sep 13 16:30:03 probably something like 100-150 EUR less that complete device Sep 13 16:30:12 than* Sep 13 16:30:32 a tad to much Sep 13 16:30:38 though might be nice\ Sep 13 16:31:38 bef0rd, can find a cheaper one with those specs? Sep 13 16:31:50 yeah, it's going to be pricey and there's not so much we can do about it Sep 13 16:32:05 jolla ftw then Sep 13 16:32:09 but it doesn't mean it won't be worth it ;) Sep 13 16:33:43 DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1374055&postcount=424 :) Sep 13 16:35:31 if they actually get a board out I might invest in getting one Sep 13 16:35:40 dos1: :-) Sep 13 16:36:22 ruskie: the point is we will get out boards when enough customers preorder Sep 13 16:37:01 we can't finance a 200 boards from our coffee kitty Sep 13 16:37:43 yeah I understand that Sep 13 16:38:10 HtheB: probably no :P Sep 13 16:38:19 but would like to see stuff running with a n900 being upgraded to this first before I would commit to anything like that Sep 13 16:38:45 and of course how difficult such an upgrade would be for a normal user Sep 13 16:38:48 :p Sep 13 16:39:05 not that I count myself as a normal user Sep 13 16:40:03 HtheB: ssd is expensive, that alone is around 300/400 usd Sep 13 16:40:27 ruskie: you failed to read attentively, we will sell complete devices. You don't need to do any DIY Sep 13 16:40:36 DocScrutinizer05, but I want to do DIY Sep 13 16:40:45 DocScrutinizer05, I have a n900 I want to replace it's innards Sep 13 16:40:48 you're free to do that :-) Sep 13 16:40:50 bef0rd, check this Sep 13 16:41:12 ruskie: we're going to offer that as an option Sep 13 16:41:59 DocScrutinizer05, but yeah I'd still like to see how involved it is and of course the cost of just the board Sep 13 16:42:38 ruskie: refer to GTA04 tutorials and videos and manuals about "how difficult the swap will be" Sep 13 16:43:06 the bare board will be ~100EUR less than complete device Sep 13 16:43:37 +-50 Sep 13 16:43:42 and it will just slot into the existing screen and all? Sep 13 16:43:48 yes Sep 13 16:43:58 so the screen is that cheap then? Sep 13 16:44:15 you'll have to do a *tiny* revork for new AB-USB receptacle Sep 13 16:44:33 screens are around 30EUR Sep 13 16:44:40 in single quantities Sep 13 16:44:41 ahh Sep 13 16:44:47 thought they were more Sep 13 16:45:06 bef0rd: 300/400 usd for 128GB ssd? Sep 13 16:45:14 we didn't do in-depth evaluation yet Sep 13 16:45:14 dos1: 1TB ssd Sep 13 16:45:31 ohh I read it wrong, its 1TB with 128gb ssd Sep 13 16:45:36 yup Sep 13 16:45:39 hmm I'll see once I have 700eur available Sep 13 16:45:51 I'm guessing it's hybrid or two disks Sep 13 16:46:15 I got 128GB Vertex 4 for 400, but PLN, not USD :P Sep 13 16:50:23 www.medion.com/nl/prod/MEDION+ERAZER+X7827+laptop/30015844A1 Sep 13 16:51:33 well voted on the pool Sep 13 16:53:59 thanks Sep 13 16:54:05 :-) Sep 13 16:57:30 bef0rd, check that link Sep 13 16:57:51 with 600 as a target for me(same as the initial n900 cost really) Sep 13 16:58:50 600 for a board, or a complete device? Sep 13 16:58:56 complete Sep 13 16:58:59 HtheB: nice, also has bluray and usb3 Sep 13 17:02:15 well, thanks anyway Sep 13 17:02:38 atleast it's interest Sep 13 17:02:59 I certainly see 300 and 400 eur as unreasonable for a full device Sep 13 17:03:32 500 is what I'd want to pay and 700 is the upper limit Sep 13 17:06:06 are there even 100k n900 in the wild? Sep 13 17:11:53 not anymore Sep 13 17:14:29 so Sep 13 17:14:38 where are we in terms of the pricing of neo900 Sep 13 17:15:06 how much is a single unit expected to cost now? Sep 13 17:15:14 is it still ~700 euros. Sep 13 17:16:37 yes Sep 13 17:16:59 we *hope* we can go down that much Sep 13 17:18:04 realistically I had to say "800" right now, but we hope to get more economic offers for buying parts in 200 qty than they are offered at single qty Sep 13 17:18:40 e're still in the *very* early project setup phase right now Sep 13 17:18:44 we* Sep 13 17:19:39 this weekend a device will move to Nikolaus (GoDeliCo) to disassemble it and check basic feasibility regarding space we can juggle with etc Sep 13 17:21:06 only if we *know* what we're talking about regarding "we _can_ do that, and that's the way _how_..." we will start evaluation of BOM cost down to the penny, and start on designing prototypes and find funding for _building_ prototypes Sep 13 17:21:23 I think that's the only honest and fair approach Sep 13 17:23:31 right now we're still in the product requirement specifying phase, checking what new stuff we need to get (compared to GTA04) and what we can keep like it been on GTA04 Sep 13 17:23:48 and your input at Sep 13 17:23:50 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Sep 13 17:24:08 is incredibly valuable and important to us during that phase Sep 13 17:25:00 mind you, the whole project is a mere 3 weeks old now Sep 13 17:25:41 and we all have a RL and a real job besides this facy little project ;-) Sep 13 17:27:04 what I like in GTA04 and this project is that no one is hyping it out and promising pies in the sky Sep 13 17:27:17 instead we get realistic info from day one Sep 13 17:28:06 (which is probably not so good when it comes to marketing etc. ;]) Sep 13 17:31:14 hmmmm Sep 13 17:31:27 for me its so expensive :( Sep 13 17:32:25 n900 is working perfect, although i have to soemtimes give it a temporary bursts of overclocking to do things quick Sep 13 17:32:35 and the swap is in the sdcard Sep 13 17:32:42 for me too, but it's not us who ask for the money, to buy us a golden slip Sep 13 17:33:02 i was thinking that Sep 13 17:33:08 alas hw IS expensive when built in small batches Sep 13 17:33:40 there are certain powerful boards out there with a9 chips and dual cores, around $200 or less i think Sep 13 17:34:05 i am trying to find a guide to let me build a tablet, i cud buy a screen and install linux on it. Sep 13 17:34:26 <33 Sep 13 18:31:17 http://geb.ebay.in/g/ImportHubViewItem?itemid=181179963360&New-Nokia-N900-3G-32GB-WIFI-GPS-WVGA-5MP-Carl-Zeiss-QWERTY-SmartPhone Sep 13 19:05:50 freemangordon: Pali: Any news re: my 2 kernel-power patches? Sep 13 19:09:11 not tested yet **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 14 02:59:59 2013