**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 14 02:59:59 2013
Sep 14 03:39:54 <oooaaaooo> hi guys im trying to repartition my /home with gparted but my n900 mounts  as the following : http://pastebin.com/yKp5YgVS
Sep 14 03:41:14 <oooaaaooo> when i open gparted i can see that the vfat & ext3 partitions for /sdb1 & sdb2 are locked. i assume thats because i dont have write permission to thepartitions
Sep 14 03:41:35 <oooaaaooo> ive tried chmod-ding the mount points nothing happens
Sep 14 03:41:41 <oooaaaooo> what should i do
Sep 14 09:50:50 <Mike11> hello everybody :)
Sep 14 09:51:36 <Mike11> my n900 falsly detects some WPA networks as WEP , so it prompts me to enter its "WEP" key , anyone with similar issues here?
Sep 14 11:57:02 <ashley> well now this is strange
Sep 14 11:57:58 <ashley> I enabled extras-devel (via the GUI) and after a while, I was prompted to update fMMS and Calendar Home Widget...I allowed the updates to happen to get 'em outta my way; after all, I was originally planning on not updating those, but installing gpSP
Sep 14 11:58:29 <ashley> installing gpSP via the instructions at http://wiki.maemo.org/GpSP#Installation didn't work somehow, despite that I was root, so I went to the Application Manager...
Sep 14 11:59:14 <ashley> and poof! all the repository listings there are gone -- not just extras-devel, but all of them...anyone know why? and where and how I can reinstall all of 'em? (one-click solutions are always preferred, because I'm lazy ;-) but other sorta solutions are accepted, too)
Sep 14 12:00:30 <sixwheeledbeast> close ham wait and try again?
Sep 14 12:07:20 <ashley> ah, that seems to have done the trick -- thanks sixwheeledbeast :-)
Sep 14 12:09:31 <mashina> ham does that
Sep 14 12:09:36 <mashina> i just use apt
Sep 14 12:10:21 <ashley> alright, onto the next issue!
Sep 14 12:10:36 <ashley> I managed to install gpSP via HAM successfully (sic)
Sep 14 12:10:49 <ashley> the installation instructions tell to set some permissions (as root): http://wiki.maemo.org/GpSP#Installation
Sep 14 12:11:16 <ashley> the line "mkdir -P /home/user/.config/Team16/gpsp/" doesn't work, though -- I get: "mkdir: invalid option -- P" when trying to do that
Sep 14 12:20:16 <DocScrutinizer05> haha, the instructions been written by somebody who installed coreutils-gnu
Sep 14 12:20:57 <DocScrutinizer05> messybox is a crippled crap that never supports all options you would like to see on any command
Sep 14 12:21:03 <DocScrutinizer05> ~messybox
Sep 14 12:21:03 <infobot> well, messybox is messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Sep 14 12:22:35 <DocScrutinizer05> man mkdir; on a *real* system (or on maemo with mandb-n900 installed ;-D)
Sep 14 12:23:46 <mashina> i actually like busybox
Sep 14 12:23:52 <mashina> never ran into limitations
Sep 14 12:23:57 <mashina> then again I use busybox-power
Sep 14 12:24:05 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh not even my desktop knows option -P
Sep 14 12:24:24 <mashina> i use openbsd and it's not there either. probably meant -p?
Sep 14 12:24:32 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly
Sep 14 12:51:50 <jonwil> too bad the 10 packages on my wishlist are exactly the sort of packages Nokia are least likely to want to open up :P
Sep 14 12:53:09 <ashley> so I made it almost through the installation instructions -- the last step didn't succeed because apparently /opt/gpspm/conf.gpsp doesn't exist so it can't be chmodded either
Sep 14 12:54:15 <ashley> http://wiki.maemo.org/GpSP#How_to_run says to "Simply use the icon ! Enjoy your games!"...but the icon just isn't there o_O
Sep 14 13:04:08 <iops2> mandb-n900 just didnt install right
Sep 14 13:04:10 <iops2> i have no idea
Sep 14 13:04:12 <iops2> y
Sep 14 13:04:22 <iops2> and then i had to google which told me to --purge erything
Sep 14 13:04:35 * iops2 did so and still thinking of installing again ... will do !
Sep 14 13:11:52 <dos1> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/09/14/0023202/nokia-had-an-android-phone-in-development
Sep 14 13:12:20 <ashley> okay, time for a few more noob questions: 1) where are the *.desktop files stored again? I can never remember the name of that folder... 2) how would I locate the gpSP binary? "which gpspm" and "which gpspmgui" return nothing...
Sep 14 13:25:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ashley: http://privatepaste.com/ce22d5ea78
Sep 14 13:26:28 <DocScrutinizer05> basically /usr/share/applications/hildon/
Sep 14 13:27:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ashley: 2) with locate ;-) Or with find
Sep 14 13:27:27 <ashley> thanks DocScrutinizer05 :) (and I'm guessing that locate is provided by gnu-coreutils or somesuch that isn't installed by default since I'm getting "-sh: locate: not found")
Sep 14 13:27:45 <DocScrutinizer05> while locate isn't standard (need to install, see ~jrtools), find should even work from messybox
Sep 14 13:28:32 <DocScrutinizer05> findutils-gnu - utilities for finding files--find, xargs
Sep 14 13:28:33 <DocScrutinizer05> locate - maintain and query an index of a directory tree
Sep 14 13:31:19 <DocScrutinizer05> locate needs proper gnu-find, I patched the .deb to use gfind instead of (messybox) find. gfind is a symlink in /usr/bin pointing to /usr/bin/gnu/find. You thus need to install findutils-gnu for locate to work
Sep 14 13:33:05 <DocScrutinizer05> oops, that been misleading. The locate package *got* patched to use....
Sep 14 13:33:15 <ashley> I downloaded the source code of gpspmgui from http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/g/gpspmgui/ (gpspmgui_3.1.3-1.tar.gz) and took a peek at the gpspmgui.desktop file -- it executes "gpspmgui" but when I try to do that from my N900, I get the standard "not found" message...yet when I installed the thingy via HAM it reported that "1 application installed successfully" :-/
Sep 14 13:33:39 <DocScrutinizer05> it probably should pull in findutils-gnu as dependency when you install it
Sep 14 13:34:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I bet it got optified and no proper symlink to the binary in /hme/opt/???/gpspmgui
Sep 14 13:35:11 <DocScrutinizer05> many packages fail on installing the mandatory symlinks
Sep 14 13:36:02 <DocScrutinizer05> devels obviously think that shell user shall type full pathname "home/opt/xxxx/yyyy" to invoke the executable
Sep 14 13:36:30 <DocScrutinizer05> I frequently find myself doing the symlinks manually
Sep 14 13:37:00 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# which alarmed
Sep 14 13:37:01 <DocScrutinizer05> /usr/bin/alarmed
Sep 14 13:37:03 <DocScrutinizer05> IroN900:~# ll `which alarmed`
Sep 14 13:37:04 <DocScrutinizer05> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 2011-06-20 15:53 /usr/bin/alarmed -> /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py
Sep 14 13:39:01 <DocScrutinizer05> the .desktop usually use full pathname to invoke the binary
Sep 14 13:39:25 <DocScrutinizer05> for shell you regularly want proper symlinks
Sep 14 13:40:37 <DocScrutinizer05> since, duh! I'm not going to add ":/opt/alarmed/" to my $PATH
Sep 14 13:43:00 <ashley> besides managing to segfault nano (man, I am good...just at the wrong things!), I also found out that "gpspm" is installed...but there's no "gpspmgui", which seems awfully silly, considering I typed "apt-get install gpspmgui" to install this thing, just as specified in the instructions
Sep 14 13:47:04 <DocScrutinizer05> could you please pastebin the .desktop
Sep 14 13:50:11 <ashley> http://privatepaste.com/5b4a5bf351 -- this is the gpspmgui_3.1.3-1.tar\gpspmgui-3.1.3\extra\gpspmgui.desktop file from the source code, i.e. *not* from my device; I managed to find the gpspm binary in /opt/gpspm/gpspm, but a GUI would be very nice...
Sep 14 13:50:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I find in .deb: /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gpspmgui
Sep 14 13:52:57 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/09/14/plasma-desktopQC3743.png
Sep 14 13:54:10 <ashley> ls /opt/maemo/usr/bin shows only four entries for me -- SheetToGoEditor, SlideShowToGoEditor, WordToGoEditor and vumeter, no gpspmgui :-/
Sep 14 13:55:03 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Sep 14 13:55:14 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe start apt-get as root ;-) ?
Sep 14 13:56:06 <DocScrutinizer05> it's extras-devel, for all I know it might be fubar packaging
Sep 14 13:56:29 <DocScrutinizer05> or your system/device is messed up
Sep 14 13:56:52 <DocScrutinizer05> df -h /optmaemo/usr/bin
Sep 14 13:57:03 <DocScrutinizer05> +/
Sep 14 13:59:25 <ashley> I honestly have no idea, but an "apt-get install gpspmgui" as root worked (well, save for the fact that there is no real "icon", just a blue cube-ish thingy, for the GUI)...I guess I just messed up something somewhere (or maybe the packaging is fubar'd or both)
Sep 14 14:00:03 <rd1381> hi
Sep 14 14:00:12 <DocScrutinizer05> the blue cubish thingie is due to some fsckup in the way hildon creates the icon cache
Sep 14 14:00:38 <DocScrutinizer05> do "touch <path-to-.desktop>"
Sep 14 14:00:57 <rd1381> can somebody tell me how to restore fast application manager repos from backup
Sep 14 14:01:23 <DocScrutinizer05> huh?
Sep 14 14:01:33 <DocScrutinizer05> fapman deprecated
Sep 14 14:01:49 <DocScrutinizer05> and for sure it shpouldn't use own repos
Sep 14 14:02:21 <DocScrutinizer05> use HAM to manage your repos, or you *will* run into troubles eventually
Sep 14 14:02:23 <rd1381> deprecated?
Sep 14 14:02:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ~fapman
Sep 14 14:02:34 <infobot> i guess fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default.
Sep 14 14:02:53 <rd1381> HAM ? do you mean the default n900 app manager?
Sep 14 14:03:01 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Sep 14 14:03:13 <rd1381> its slow,,, very slow
Sep 14 14:03:24 <rd1381> and less features than  fapman
Sep 14 14:04:01 <DocScrutinizer05> fapman is braindamaged, regarding it pretending to replace HAM which it evidently doesn't. It also does BAD[TM] things to your system, like apt-get autoremove
Sep 14 14:04:40 <rd1381> it has the option to disable "apt-get autoremove"
Sep 14 14:04:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't care
Sep 14 14:04:56 <DocScrutinizer05> fapman is deprecated
Sep 14 14:05:27 <Wizzup> but it's _fast_
Sep 14 14:05:27 <Wizzup> ;-)
Sep 14 14:05:46 <DocScrutinizer05> rm -rf also is _fast_ X-P
Sep 14 14:06:56 <DocScrutinizer05> ~jrtools
Sep 14 14:06:56 <infobot> somebody said jrtools was http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Sep 14 14:10:47 <DocScrutinizer05> I probably should add a note about fapman, next to the note about crappatch
Sep 14 14:11:53 <DocScrutinizer05> I also wonder if my tools page needs some explanation about *why* you want bash installed
Sep 14 14:12:20 <Wizzup> first thing I install after vim
Sep 14 14:12:34 <DocScrutinizer05> and why busybox-power is a fundamentally faulty approach to the issue
Sep 14 14:12:39 <rd1381> now can somebody tell me how to restore fapman repos
Sep 14 14:13:02 <DocScrutinizer05> *I* at least can't
Sep 14 14:13:32 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd just wonder why you lost them, first instance
Sep 14 14:14:27 <rd1381> I restored my n900 to faxctory (reflash)
Sep 14 14:14:49 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm, and that been needed why?
Sep 14 14:15:11 <DocScrutinizer05> not maybe related to you using fapman that messed up your system fubar?
Sep 14 14:15:37 <thedead1440_> lol
Sep 14 14:16:27 <DocScrutinizer05> HAM sourcecode been FOSS ever since. But some genius decided that it would be wise to write a new app called fapman instead of fixing any perceived flaws in HAM
Sep 14 14:16:50 <dos1> I've used both apt-get and fapman
Sep 14 14:17:09 <dos1> (apt-get dist-upgrade, that is)
Sep 14 14:17:13 <dos1> and yes, I messed up the system with them :)
Sep 14 14:17:17 <DocScrutinizer05> the whole enterprise ended in a tool that has high potential to mess up your system since it doesn't consider anything that HAM does
Sep 14 14:18:39 <DocScrutinizer05> before I use fapman I'd rather use aptitude
Sep 14 14:19:49 <dos1> hmm, I recall aptitude segfaulting on my N900 (but I'm not sure if that really was N900 and not something else)
Sep 14 14:19:58 <dos1> if it was something else, then for sure I've been using aptitude on N900 too :D
Sep 14 14:20:33 <mashina> apt > aptitude
Sep 14 14:21:06 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, HAM *is* slow like dogs**t, but after all you're not supposed to install >1 app per day anyway. Since you should thoroughly test you newly installed app and the whole system for any regressions. You wouldn't know which app to deinstall if you did that tests after installing more than one app
Sep 14 14:23:55 <ashley> the gpSP icon is still missing, even after "touch"ing it, but at least the emulator itself seems to work \o/
Sep 14 14:23:56 <DocScrutinizer05> and I actually come to think maybe the 5 minutes of waiting till HAM built the app-list so you can continue installing are a FEATURE, allowing you to muse what exactly you need to check and do after installing that ap, and if that app you plan to install is really what you want
Sep 14 14:24:20 <Wizzup> no, its not a feature
Sep 14 14:24:23 <Wizzup> its darn annoying
Sep 14 14:24:24 <Wizzup> :-)
Sep 14 14:24:30 <Wizzup> It's slower than portage
Sep 14 14:24:30 <Wizzup> haha
Sep 14 14:24:36 <thedead1440> haha doc nice spin on it :p
Sep 14 14:25:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ashley: that's weird. there's a command like osso-update-icon-cache or sth, you might want to run this. You also may want to make sure that the icon got really installed
Sep 14 14:27:55 <DocScrutinizer05> ashley: reboot usually helps to rebuild the icon cache
Sep 14 14:30:09 <DocScrutinizer05> for all I seem to recall hildon is watching /usr/share/apps/hildon/ via inotify and rebuilds icon cache as soon as any file in there gets changed. Installer however doesn't know about that and installs .desktop *BEFORE* the icon that is referenced in .desktop. So when HD kicks in rebuilding the icon cache, it can't find the icon for the new .desktop (yet) ->> blue squircle
Sep 14 14:31:01 <ashley> whee, rebooting fixed the "missing icon" issue \o/ thanks again DocScrutinizer05, you're awesome :D
Sep 14 14:31:19 <DocScrutinizer05> I suggested since ages to fix that issue by introducing a "sleep 10" between inotify-wait and osso-update-iconcache
Sep 14 14:31:57 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno if that patch got already merged into CSSU
Sep 14 14:32:15 * jonwil is looking for something to do...
Sep 14 14:37:07 <DocScrutinizer05> jonwil: find where icon-cache of applauncher is rebuilt ;-) I can't spot it anymore
Sep 14 14:37:19 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a cmdline tool
Sep 14 14:37:33 <DocScrutinizer05> hd-update-icon-cache or whatever
Sep 14 14:38:08 <DocScrutinizer05> OOOH, I think several postinstall scripts call it
Sep 14 14:45:41 <jonwil> ok, back to being bored. Closest thing to good TV tonight is a couple very boring sports matches :(
Sep 14 14:49:44 <DocScrutinizer05> woooosh
Sep 14 14:50:16 <DocScrutinizer05> another fapmanfan bites the dust ;-)
Sep 14 14:51:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder if council should start to investigate if fapman maybe actually is a dangerous app that has to get removed from repos, to protect users
Sep 14 14:51:30 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Sep 14 14:52:11 <mashina> fapman? is he a superhero and his power is masturbation?
Sep 14 14:52:54 <Sysaxed1> DocScrutinizer05: what else would we use then? apt-get ?
Sep 14 14:53:54 <jonwil> ham
Sep 14 14:54:19 <Sysaxed1> so dancing around your phone for an hour to install 5 apps is ok?
Sep 14 14:55:08 <jonwil> 'ham is open source, someone should go through and fix the issues with it (including the fact that it takes forever to do things) rather than trying to replace it with something new that doesn't do the right job
Sep 14 14:55:47 <thedead1440> Sysaxed1: actually if you know what you are doing, apt-get is fine and much more preferable to fapman since it accesses the same repo lists that HAM uses and not a "separate" list...
Sep 14 14:56:28 <thedead1440> if you are using fapman with the pretext you know what you are doing, apt-get is infinitely better anyway...
Sep 14 14:57:28 <Kilroo> apt-get isn't as convenient for browsing...a fapman-style interface that output apt-get commands would be pretty nice.
Sep 14 14:58:20 <DocScrutinizer05> thedead1440: plus apt-get at least WARNs and doesn't do automatic autoremove
Sep 14 14:58:35 <DocScrutinizer05> it at best suggests to do autoremove
Sep 14 14:58:36 * thedead1440 never uses HAM except for upgrading CSSU versions...
Sep 14 14:58:42 <thedead1440> indeed
Sep 14 14:58:51 <Kilroo> Thanks for reminding me, Doc. Need to reinstall flashlight again.
Sep 14 14:59:36 <DocScrutinizer05> Kilroo: THAT would indeed make *some* sense. More than fapman does, anyway
Sep 14 15:00:30 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway for browsing we got the intarwebs, with all those nice green huge "Install" buttons
Sep 14 15:00:50 <Kilroo> ...I also might need to switch to my backup n900...I think my usb port might finally be getting loose...
Sep 14 15:01:04 <Kilroo> Or maybe this cord is faulty.
Sep 14 15:01:08 <DocScrutinizer05> but that's probably _too_ _much_ browsing for you, eh?
Sep 14 15:01:30 <Kilroo> Well, I've never looked.
Sep 14 15:02:10 <DocScrutinizer05> look! http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/desktop/
Sep 14 15:03:07 <DocScrutinizer05> perfectly convenient way to install an app without waiting ages for HAM to let you browse the list
Sep 14 15:03:54 <Kilroo> Usually what happens is I think either "I wonder if there's something I can install to do X" and go search for a keyword or two to see if I find anything promising (across categories, of course), or "I wonder if there's anything I feel like trying out from category Y" (usually games) so I pull the phone out and look.
Sep 14 15:04:03 <DocScrutinizer05> or this: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/simple-brightness-applet/
Sep 14 15:04:39 <mashina> i miss that brightness applet for the n800 that let you get the full 256 levels of brightness
Sep 14 15:04:58 <mashina> i usually cranked that sucker below 10, you could use it without staring into the sun at night
Sep 14 15:10:11 <Sysaxed1> "(17:57:27) Kilroo: apt-get isn't as convenient for browsing...a fapman-style interface that output apt-get commands would be pretty nice." The problem is that it is not convenient for installing as well. For me it hangs for several minutes after package installation
Sep 14 15:11:06 <Kilroo> Really? Hm. I've never noticed that, but then, I also haven't used it a whole lot. This is actually the first I'd heard anything in particular against fapman.
Sep 14 15:11:56 <Sysaxed1> ah, shit, seems like I can't read
Sep 14 15:12:09 <Sysaxed1> I meant that ham is a disaster for anything, not fapman
Sep 14 15:12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> Kilroo: case A: http://www.google.de/search?q=site%3Amaemo.org+downloads+maemo5+brightness
Sep 14 15:12:58 <Kilroo> I wasn't talking about ham in either case. I was comparing apt-get from terminal with fapman's gui.
Sep 14 15:13:27 <DocScrutinizer05> Kilroo: case B: http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/games/
Sep 14 15:14:13 <DocScrutinizer05> Kilroo: and I suggest an alternative not involving apt, fapman, or HAM (at least initially)
Sep 14 15:15:12 <iops2> apt-get is the the nicest thing
Sep 14 15:15:54 <DocScrutinizer05> even better: http://www.google.de/search?q=site%3Amaemo.org%2Fdownloads+maemo5+brightness
Sep 14 15:16:40 <Kilroo> Doc: you've made your point. I still find fapman's interface more appealing to skim through than opening up a web browser and poking around on maemo.org/download, but I acknowledge that it's not the only convenient alternative.
Sep 14 15:17:18 <DocScrutinizer05> version 1.0:  http://www.google.de/search?q=site%3Amaemo.org%2Fdownloads%2Fproduct%2Fmaemo5+brightness
Sep 14 15:18:04 <Kilroo> Anyhow, at the moment I'm more inclined to play with my new n9 and figure out what I'm going to use to replace sipgate come end of next month.
Sep 14 15:31:36 <Sysaxed1> Hahahaha
Sep 14 15:31:38 <Sysaxed1> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/speedcrunch
Sep 14 15:31:52 <Sysaxed1> "intelligent automatic completion"
Sep 14 15:36:00 <Sysaxed1> awww, my n900 refuses to make a screenshot
Sep 14 15:36:39 <Sysaxed1> was it ctrl+shft+p?
Sep 14 15:39:20 <DocScrutinizer05> for your convenience:
Sep 14 15:39:28 <DocScrutinizer05> ~zapman brightness
Sep 14 15:39:30 <infobot> http://www.google.de/search?q=site%3Amaemo.org%2Fdownloads%2Fproduct%2Fmaemo5+brightness
Sep 14 15:40:10 <DocScrutinizer05> enjoy!
Sep 14 15:46:11 <Custodian> rocket twitter client is ported to n900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91370
Sep 14 15:49:03 <DocScrutinizer05> \o/
Sep 14 15:50:51 <Kilroo>  /o\
Sep 14 15:53:01 <DocScrutinizer05> Custodian: what means >>CSSU Stable update required.<<?
Sep 14 15:58:46 <DocScrutinizer05> CSSU-S doesn't ship rocket-twitter, and there's nothing in CSSU-S that rocket twitter could depend on that you wouldn't find as well in CSSU-S. So the whole statement is unclear in its meaning to me
Sep 14 16:00:16 <DocScrutinizer05> if rocket twitter depends on CSSU, then you probably should word it this way, including a link to http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Sep 14 16:41:10 <Sysaxed> what was the name... it was a nice old game pretty similar to wolfestein
Sep 14 16:41:23 <Sysaxed> but I remember that it was possible to ride a bike in that game
Sep 14 16:41:42 <Sysaxed> also, if I'm not mistaken, the game starts on the island
Sep 14 16:42:36 <Sysaxed> but yeah, the gameplay was very similar to wolfestein
Sep 14 16:42:40 <Sysaxed> I guess.. I don't know
Sep 14 16:42:44 <Sysaxed> it was more than 10 years ago
Sep 14 16:42:56 <Sysaxed> any ideas?
Sep 14 16:46:06 <entitled> I only remember one wolfenstein clone that happened on an island. No riding a bike there tho? Game was crappy on itself, tried to be succesful by using excess gore (you crashlanded on the island full of zombies)
Sep 14 16:47:03 <Sysaxed> entitled: sounds very similar!
Sep 14 16:47:14 <Sysaxed> bike was far away from the first level..
Sep 14 16:47:38 <Sysaxed> entitled: how was that game called?
Sep 14 16:50:11 <entitled> isle of the dead?
Sep 14 16:59:16 <Sysaxed> entitled: this one looks very similar, but no :\
Sep 14 17:00:34 <Sysaxed> I'm pretty sure that there was a bike..
Sep 14 17:03:31 <Sysaxed> http://www.abandonia.com/files/games/688/Isle%20Of%20The%20Dead_1.png
Sep 14 17:03:38 <Sysaxed> oh dang
Sep 14 17:03:43 <Sysaxed> that's it
Sep 14 17:03:59 <Sysaxed> not sure if I meant that game, but I'm pretty sure that I've played Isle of the dead
Sep 14 17:04:53 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: hmm, really there is a problem with sdk download
Sep 14 17:05:05 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: it goes in circles :)
Sep 14 17:05:09 <Sysaxed> so, yeah, seems like both games are mixed in my memory
Sep 14 17:05:11 <DocScrutinizer05> it does?
Sep 14 17:05:17 <nedko>  \o/
Sep 14 17:05:30 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: click "I accept" on http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Sep 14 17:05:33 <Sysaxed> so now I'm searching for a game that was very similar to wolfenstein and had a bike
Sep 14 17:05:48 <Sysaxed> without beach and island stuff
Sep 14 17:05:58 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: you're not supposed to use http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Sep 14 17:06:02 <freemangordon> you're redirected to the same php on nokia's server
Sep 14 17:06:08 <freemangordon> oh, ok :)
Sep 14 17:06:23 <DocScrutinizer05> it's only stage for server farm
Sep 14 17:07:05 <freemangordon> ok, but where are VMWare images stored?
Sep 14 17:07:18 <freemangordon> scratch that
Sep 14 17:07:27 <DocScrutinizer05> since apache isn't smart enough to deliver differnet content based on dunnowhat, we need to ship content that's correct for tabletsdev.n.c
Sep 14 17:07:58 <freemangordon> or wait, don't scratch that, see http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/
Sep 14 17:08:16 <nedko> i'd be glad if someone just gives me md5sum of the vmware zip file or of the MD5SUM file they got
Sep 14 17:08:25 <DocScrutinizer05> if you could have *relative* (instead of absolute) URLs in html, we could sanitize that
Sep 14 17:08:32 <nedko> and preferably not someone who got them from the same bulgarian server
Sep 14 17:08:46 <freemangordon> nedko: this is nokia server, if you don;t trust them, well... http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Sep 14 17:08:55 <DocScrutinizer05> nedko: your wish is my command
Sep 14 17:08:58 <Sysaxed> was there any doom clone with bike?
Sep 14 17:09:13 <nedko> DocScrutinizer05: i forgot to add PLEASE
Sep 14 17:09:20 <freemangordon> nedko: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=MD5SUMS
Sep 14 17:10:03 <nedko> freemangordon: yes, this goes to a server in bulgaria
Sep 14 17:10:24 <freemangordon> nedko: so what is the problem?
Sep 14 17:10:45 <freemangordon> if nokia has a server in bulgaria, that is just fine, you have better speeds
Sep 14 17:11:12 <freemangordon> if you don;t trust your isp, well, just change it :)
Sep 14 17:11:22 <DocScrutinizer05> what's the name of the file?
Sep 14 17:11:37 <nedko> freemangordon: it is not accessible via https (invalid ssl certificate) so i'd like to check from different location in internet
Sep 14 17:11:59 <DocScrutinizer05> use skeiron!
Sep 14 17:12:06 <DocScrutinizer05> what's the name of the file?
Sep 14 17:12:08 <nedko> freemangordon: in bulgaria we have state enforced internet censorship :)
Sep 14 17:12:15 <freemangordon> nedko: can;t help, I am in Bulgaria too
Sep 14 17:12:16 <freemangordon> ;)
Sep 14 17:12:21 <nedko> freemangordon: i know :)
Sep 14 17:12:27 <nedko> DocScrutinizer05: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=MD5SUMS
Sep 14 17:12:35 <DocScrutinizer05> sigh!
Sep 14 17:13:13 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/c7ee79c480
Sep 14 17:13:46 <nedko> lets try with a different one then...
Sep 14 17:13:58 <dos1> http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH
Sep 14 17:14:08 <nedko> Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z
Sep 14 17:14:26 <nedko> dos1: thank you!
Sep 14 17:14:31 <DocScrutinizer05> joerg@stage:/var/tabletsdev$ locate Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z
Sep 14 17:14:33 <DocScrutinizer05> /var/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z
Sep 14 17:14:49 <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: what certificate do you get here https://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php ?
Sep 14 17:15:03 <DocScrutinizer05> nfc
Sep 14 17:15:08 <freemangordon> try it, please
Sep 14 17:15:23 <dos1> freemangordon: The certificate is only valid for the following names: *.akamaihd.net , *.akamaihd-staging.net , a248.e.akamai.net 
Sep 14 17:15:30 <freemangordon> :nod:
Sep 14 17:15:51 <nedko> here you get a1341
Sep 14 17:15:51 <freemangordon> WTF?!? Nokia went totally nuts?
Sep 14 17:16:10 <nedko> freemangordon: these aliases dont really work with ssl
Sep 14 17:16:17 <freemangordon> nedko: doesn;t matter, it is not .nokia.
Sep 14 17:16:24 <nedko> i think a1341 and a248 are part of the CDN
Sep 14 17:16:42 <nedko> tablets-dev.nokia.com is an alias for tablets-dev.nokia.com.edgesuite.net.
Sep 14 17:17:00 <freemangordon> however, we can't fix that :)
Sep 14 17:17:24 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/09/14/plasma-desktopdY3743.png
Sep 14 17:17:51 <freemangordon> yep, the same
Sep 14 17:18:48 <freemangordon> nedko: it is not our government :)
Sep 14 17:19:03 <DocScrutinizer05> joerg@stage:/var/tabletsdev$ md5sum /var/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z
Sep 14 17:19:05 <DocScrutinizer05> 8c173b04bb3951bcfd4433da554b6c3a  /var/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z
Sep 14 17:19:06 <DocScrutinizer05> joerg@stage:/var/tabletsdev$ ls -l /var/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z
Sep 14 17:19:07 <DocScrutinizer05> -rw-r--r-- 1 repository repository 1457450621 Dec 10  2010 /var/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Maemo_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z
Sep 14 17:19:09 <DocScrutinizer05> joerg@stage:/var/tabletsdev$
Sep 14 17:19:28 <nedko> DocScrutinizer05: thank you!
Sep 14 17:19:29 <DocScrutinizer05> HTH
Sep 14 17:20:38 <nedko> freemangordon: http://pastebin.com/BaPen35M
Sep 14 17:21:32 <freemangordon> looks just fine to me
Sep 14 17:21:43 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
Sep 14 17:21:48 <DocScrutinizer05> akamai server farm
Sep 14 17:21:51 <nedko> fine except the ssl :)
Sep 14 17:21:59 <DocScrutinizer05> == https://tablets-dev.nokia.com
Sep 14 17:22:03 <freemangordon> but it is nokia to blame for that
Sep 14 17:22:18 <DocScrutinizer05> zilch we can do 
Sep 14 17:22:19 <nedko> i guess it is microsoft now
Sep 14 17:22:24 <nedko> :]
Sep 14 17:22:24 <freemangordon> anyway, back to hsi/ssi/cmt
Sep 14 17:22:34 <dos1> it's always microsoft to blame :)
Sep 14 17:23:28 <DocScrutinizer05> please don't bitch about that https://tablets-dev.nokia.com, it's basically orphaned. Nokia won't do *anything* about it except shutting it down
Sep 14 17:24:56 <DocScrutinizer05> it's akamai doing the maintenance, and Nokia "forgot" about that infra
Sep 14 17:25:53 <DocScrutinizer05> so, for any problems with https://tablets-dev.nokia.com please contact techstaff AT MAEMO.ORG
Sep 14 17:26:14 <DocScrutinizer05> *not* nokia!
Sep 14 19:41:10 <FIQ> hmm
Sep 14 19:41:35 <FIQ> 2 months ago, I was fighting with an odd bug making bindmounts refuse to work.. while I gave up on debugging that when I saw that it basically froze in the initialization for no apparent reason which caused the bindmounts to fail, I think I finally know what causes it now...
Sep 14 19:42:03 <FIQ> *python bindmounts
Sep 14 19:42:03 <FIQ> I don't know *why*, but it seems to happen when the clock is reset (see: battery change), and updates automatically once you enter the PIN
Sep 14 19:42:04 <FIQ> at that very boot, the bindmounts fails, but not otherwise
Sep 14 19:42:30 <FIQ> Not sure if it's due to a bogus time, due to the actual clock update when it updates from SIM, or due to something else during the change of battery.. but it happens in that situation and never otherwise
Sep 14 19:48:18 <DocScrutinizer05> FIQ: nice finding
Sep 14 19:48:26 <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: ^^^
Sep 14 19:48:30 <DocScrutinizer05> Pali: ^^^
Sep 14 19:50:51 <Custodian> DocScrutinizer05: (about the cssu dependency) it means exactly as you thought about it, you have to install cssu to get updated qt and deps.
Sep 14 19:52:39 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: it's also worth pointing out that I don't have hildon-welcome (or whatever the "hi! please set your clock" screen is provided by), which may or may not have something to do with it as well
Sep 14 19:53:32 <FIQ> it was told earlier in this channel when I ranted about that screen a little that it was completely safe to remove, so I see no wrongdoing on my part for removing it
Sep 14 19:55:07 <nedko> will armhf binaries work on n900?
Sep 14 19:59:14 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, prolly not
Sep 14 20:00:08 <DocScrutinizer05> though it maybe doesn't matter until something uses floating point arithmetic eventually
Sep 14 20:00:47 <DocScrutinizer05> btw the speed boost from hf is often overestimated
Sep 14 20:00:59 <DocScrutinizer05> it's actually marginal
Sep 14 20:01:01 <DocScrutinizer05> aiui
Sep 14 20:01:39 <nedko> even for fp intensive stuff?
Sep 14 20:01:43 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
Sep 14 20:02:14 <DocScrutinizer05> since the only difference is _when_ the variables get moved from standard registers to fp registers
Sep 14 20:02:23 <DocScrutinizer05> whether in app or in library
Sep 14 20:02:37 <nedko> hmm
Sep 14 20:02:41 <DocScrutinizer05> in the end both methods use the FP coproc
Sep 14 20:02:55 <nedko> inst arm-non-hf using soft floating point emulation?
Sep 14 20:03:22 <nedko> *isn't
Sep 14 20:04:00 <ShadowJK> no.
Sep 14 20:04:07 <DocScrutinizer05> no, soft is just a lib that also uses the coporc if available
Sep 14 20:04:50 <nedko> interesting
Sep 14 20:04:56 <DocScrutinizer05> so you see, the real difference is sth between 0.0% and maybe 5 intructiins more or less per call
Sep 14 20:05:30 <DocScrutinizer05> only if app would keep the vars in FP registers
Sep 14 20:05:37 <ShadowJK> The difference is that if you have a non-inline function float blah(float a, float b){ return a+b; }, in the non-hf case a and b are pushed to stack at function call, popped from stack in blah()
Sep 14 20:05:58 <ShadowJK> in armhf a and b are loaded into registers
Sep 14 20:06:17 <DocScrutinizer05> if app either moves the vars to FP and out of FP, or calls a lib that does exactly same - no diff at all
Sep 14 20:06:31 <ShadowJK> stack vs registers as place for storing function parameters is the only difference
Sep 14 20:07:05 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
Sep 14 20:07:25 <ShadowJK> From this also follows, that armhf gives most boost to apps with functions that do very little
Sep 14 20:07:42 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
Sep 14 20:07:44 <ShadowJK> because there the extra overhead will be a bigger proportion of total time
Sep 14 20:07:49 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW poorly written apps
Sep 14 20:09:01 <ShadowJK> of which there are many :-)
Sep 14 20:09:20 <nedko> it is clearer now, thanks
Sep 14 20:09:20 <DocScrutinizer05> add to this the PITA that you can't tell if a binary is hardfp or softfp, and you'll come to the conclusion that you better don't bother at all and simply stick with whatever is default on your platform
Sep 14 20:10:35 <DocScrutinizer05> ShadowJK: good ARM compilers do a hell of a job on auto-inline
Sep 14 20:10:49 <DocScrutinizer05> and other weird (*really* weird) stuff
Sep 14 20:11:43 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes you need half an hour for your "mathematical proof" why what you wrote and what compiler made of it are actualy same thing
Sep 14 20:13:13 <DocScrutinizer05> ...for a 50..100 lines c src 
Sep 14 20:13:51 <DocScrutinizer05> judging by the assembler code, you would *bet* this never can be your program
Sep 14 20:43:08 <Pali> in mdns nss library is bug, it does not set interface index for ipv6 addresses
Sep 14 20:44:18 <Pali> so when mdns nss library resolve hostname to link-local ipv6 address, everything fail, because without interface index it is not possible to ipv6 link local address
Sep 14 20:45:06 <Pali> problem is not only in maemo mdns nss library (in extras-devel), but also in ubuntu 12.10
Sep 14 20:45:22 <Pali> so upstream bug...
Sep 14 21:27:27 <DocScrutinizer05> hrhrhrhr
Sep 14 21:27:52 <DocScrutinizer05> modern leete new stuff like IPv6, bah!
Sep 14 21:28:25 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe in 5 years, after the betatest finished ;-P
Sep 14 21:29:08 <Pali> I agree, with ipv6 are only problems...
Sep 14 21:29:16 <Pali> ... but because programmer does not know how to write correct ipv6 code
Sep 14 21:29:44 <Pali> there is only one *working* dhcpv6 client for linux
Sep 14 21:30:28 <Pali> but because new version is too new, it is still not in any distribution
Sep 14 21:31:13 <Pali> dhcpcd ver 6
Sep 14 21:31:58 <Pali> and there is also big network manager which patching ISC dhclient config/script file
Sep 14 21:32:21 <Pali> and last version of network manager maybe working too
Sep 14 21:33:02 <Pali> so for correct and working ipv6 support in linux (userspace) we need to wait...
Sep 14 21:33:31 <Wizzup> http://asset-b.soup.io/asset/5185/2833_b239.jpeg
Sep 14 21:55:02 <Luke-Jr> Pali: erm, because DHCPv6 is useless :P
Sep 14 21:55:51 <Pali> useless? it is only one protocol for statefull ip address assign
Sep 14 21:58:45 <Pali> Luke-Jr: but still routers and prefixes can be received only from RA
Sep 14 21:59:39 <Pali> and this is problem of all linux dhcp clients: they are not able to set ipv6 address and routers on interfaces correctly
Sep 14 21:59:55 <Luke-Jr> works fine for me for years
Sep 14 21:59:59 <Luke-Jr> no need for dhcp
Sep 14 22:01:46 <Pali> Luke-Jr: no need for dhcp? and how you want to use statefull address?
Sep 14 22:01:56 <Pali> manual ip address assignment?
Sep 14 22:02:19 <Pali> this is stupid
Sep 14 22:02:51 <Luke-Jr> stateful addressing is stupid
Sep 14 22:02:59 <Luke-Jr> autoconfigured IPs is fine
Sep 14 22:03:32 <Luke-Jr> it's not like they change
Sep 14 22:04:06 <Pali> maybe you should look at some bigger networks, and then write that statefull is stupid
Sep 14 22:04:43 <Pali> allowing *any* client to use random address is not usable
Sep 14 22:04:59 <Pali> this can work in some small home networks, but thats all
Sep 14 22:05:44 <Pali> and stateless autoconf working only on /64 networks
Sep 14 22:05:53 <Luke-Jr> which is the bare minimum assignment
Sep 14 22:06:04 <Pali> and /48?
Sep 14 22:06:15 <Luke-Jr> stateless autoconf works fine in a /48 too
Sep 14 22:06:32 <Pali> but is problematic
Sep 14 22:07:29 <Luke-Jr> works for me
Sep 14 22:07:31 <Luke-Jr> ™
Sep 14 22:07:33 <Pali> and it is still stateless
Sep 14 22:07:38 <Luke-Jr> which is fine
Sep 14 22:07:47 <Pali> max for home networks
Sep 15 02:42:32 <mashina> can't use ham or apt because ?
Sep 15 02:42:34 <mashina> E: Encountered a section with no Package: header
Sep 15 02:42:34 <mashina> E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/downloads.maemo.nokia.com_fremantle_ssu_mr0_._Packages
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 15 02:59:59 2013