**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 15 02:59:59 2013 Sep 15 10:18:38 hi all Sep 15 10:19:06 should I flash to vannila or only global is ok? Sep 15 10:23:40 I had bad luck trying to get an n900, got one from a Hong Kong seller called cellphonesforever and it quickly failed. Do you have any recommendations for eBay sellers of the n900? I think I might still want one, not sure after I got burned a while back. Sep 15 10:24:12 I'm in the US btw. Sep 15 10:26:06 hi EdLin Sep 15 10:26:17 hi Sep 15 10:26:19 I have bout from honk kong, best reseller I know Sep 15 10:26:28 I realy realy recommanded Sep 15 10:26:44 who? Sep 15 10:26:56 I have this phone (n900) 3 month Sep 15 10:27:30 and had little problem with slide , I contact to my resller and he imdetly resend me a new phone Sep 15 10:27:33 I'm reluctant to get it from anyone in Hong Kong. Sep 15 10:27:37 I was amazed Sep 15 10:28:12 name the reseller, but I'm not sure if I want to give them a chance after getting a bad refurbished model sold as new. Sep 15 10:28:44 EdLin, U can trust me , he is the best Sep 15 10:29:21 go ahead and name who you're talking about already, not that I'll pay it any mind after getting burned from someone in that country. Sep 15 10:29:29 I had also problem with microSD and took my lifre time to get refund Sep 15 10:29:29 ordinaryworld2009 Sep 15 10:29:38 not from him from diffrent resller Sep 15 10:29:52 ordinaryworld2009 - he is the best resller I have found for mobile Sep 15 10:30:14 good for you. I'll check his negative ratings though to make sure I'm not walking into another trap. Sep 15 10:30:23 he send me a new phone in fast airmail Sep 15 10:30:42 belive me he is the best Sep 15 10:30:54 you seem rather enthusiastic. Sep 15 10:30:56 he gave me 1 year warrnty Sep 15 10:31:28 I don't have anything with him Sep 15 10:31:28 belive me I don't Sep 15 10:31:41 I am a buyer like you Sep 15 13:10:22 my n900 looses its gsm signal when connected to charger, is that a known issue? Sep 15 13:10:45 i have cssu-thumb Sep 15 14:12:01 no, this is absolutely pathological Sep 15 14:13:01 I also have no good story to explain that, except from mere hw issues or simply "don't place the phone on steel tables, it detunes the antenna!" Sep 15 17:32:07 hi all Sep 15 17:32:44 I understand that I don't need to install vanilla , just combined ? Sep 15 17:32:47 bcz vanilla is the same Sep 15 17:52:28 vanilla != combined Sep 15 18:44:56 ~flashing Sep 15 18:44:57 extra, extra, read all about it, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 15 18:48:08 ~quad-core-n900 Sep 15 18:48:11 -_- Sep 15 18:53:24 ~neo900 Sep 15 18:53:24 methinks neo900 is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142, or at http://neo900.org/ Sep 15 19:20:05 GeneralAntilles: ping Sep 15 19:21:48 Semi-available I'm-at-work pong Sep 15 19:22:48 could you eventually help drafting a short text for a post about Neo900? I would like to see it phrased by somebody with your skills Sep 15 19:23:38 some 2 or three sentences Sep 15 19:24:07 For a post to Talk? Or? Sep 15 19:24:20 that don't sound like written in pidgin Sep 15 19:24:30 /. actually Sep 15 19:24:37 Ah Sep 15 19:25:08 Can you send me an email with the main points you'd like to communicate? Sep 15 19:25:08 we need a good headline and 3 introduction sentences with all the buzzwords in them Sep 15 19:25:15 I'll look tonight. Sep 15 19:25:16 yep, sure Sep 15 19:25:22 many thanks Sep 15 19:25:59 dos1: ^^^ Sep 15 19:26:09 thx :) Sep 15 19:33:15 GeneralAntilles: "openmoko and ex-nokia's maemo join forces" https://blogs.fsfe.org/pboddie/?p=430 $list-of-buzzwords Sep 15 19:34:07 Stick it in an email. Sep 15 19:34:15 after NOKIAs SELLOUT to MICROSOFT the MAEMO os and MEEGO as used on N9... Sep 15 19:34:28 will do Sep 15 19:35:19 dos1: can you write a first draft and send it to me? Sep 15 19:35:47 however sparse, maybe just listing the buzzwords Sep 15 19:39:33 k Sep 15 21:25:05 freemangordon: I updated 3.10 n900 kernel tree Sep 15 21:25:24 I added your patches Sep 15 21:28:50 Anyone using mutt for N900? How is it? Sep 15 21:33:47 oh mutt has been ported? Sep 15 21:34:37 * nox- usually only ssh's from the n900 and runs mutt on another box... Sep 15 21:36:14 nox-: That's a good idea ... didn't think of that. Sep 15 21:36:23 :) Sep 15 21:37:23 But I do want to be able to download attachments, and then read them offline when the N900 isn't online (I have some pretty crappy reception in some geographical areas where I spend a significant fraction of my daily routine. :( ) Sep 15 21:38:31 well you could scp them over from the other box too... Sep 15 21:39:08 Yeah, I guess that makes the most sense. That way if my crappy connection breaks, the other box can still download large pieces of email and wait for me to retrieve them. Sep 15 23:36:35 DocScrutinizer05: DocScrutinizer51: I just noticed the https://garage.maemo.org/ SSL cert is expired Sep 15 23:36:54 errrr Sep 15 23:37:08 dang, really Sep 15 23:37:11 ? Sep 15 23:37:40 according to iceweasel: garage.maemo.org uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate expired on 25/04/13 01:59. The current time is 16/09/13 01:37. Sep 15 23:45:49 hmm yeah, I hope I know what's current time. I just wonder what the heck went wrong with the garage cert, I created new ones for everything else Sep 15 23:45:59 all new all fresh: http://neo900.org/ Sep 15 23:46:51 pabs3: thanks, I'll simply forward that to our sysops ;-P Sep 15 23:47:54 cool Sep 15 23:53:39 Does 3d acceleration count as ``being usable'' Sep 16 00:12:18 Wizzup: with Fremantle - yes Sep 16 00:12:31 err Sep 16 00:12:32 no :) Sep 16 00:12:34 with SHR, QtMoko, etc - yes Sep 16 00:26:46 well, 3D accel counts as luxury ;-P Sep 16 00:27:02 a system _without_ counts as "usable" Sep 16 00:27:33 however you're free to use the closed blobs and exploit the benefits of 3D accel, on Neo900 Sep 16 00:27:48 up to you, you got the choice Sep 16 00:28:57 we can't rpovide what we can't get a hold on Sep 16 00:29:04 provide even Sep 16 00:29:26 but you get a hw platform that *works* without any blobs Sep 16 00:29:51 and you're even free to use blobs that are actually available and it _still_ works :-D Sep 16 00:34:05 compare situation about mp3 decoders some years back, when distros shipped without them due to Fraunhofer patents, but you were free to either a) use the OS without mp3 support b) use some pirated mp3 decoders c) use some licenced mp3 decoders offered for your OS for a small fee to pay the royalties Sep 16 00:36:01 would you have called the distor "not usable" due to that? Sep 16 00:36:11 distro, dang Sep 16 00:38:49 Wizzup: since Neo900 is binary compatible to N900, you can use the 3D accel shipping with your Fremantle-Maemo5 you own, and put it on Neo900 and it simply will work Sep 16 00:39:22 it's neither less nor more free than maemo5 on N900 then, regarding this issue Sep 16 00:41:38 and since Neo900 is first and foremost designed and planned as N900-successor, I hope you're happy with that Sep 16 00:52:35 GeneralAntilles: sorry I dunno how to twitter news to MWKN. anyway you might be interested in _new_ http://neo900.org/ Sep 16 00:53:19 comments welcome ;-) Sep 16 00:55:06 though Dos1 does an incredible job with his website designs (at least in my book), I'm well aware we both are no professional web designers and not even marketing experts or just native speakers Sep 16 00:56:55 however I think the page now should stand a first public review Sep 16 00:57:41 its public? Sep 16 00:58:06 forgive my stupidity, i just saw it -_- Sep 16 00:58:27 DocScrutinizer05: the table is new? Sep 16 01:00:41 nice site Sep 16 01:00:53 fancy and my n900 didn't die trying to render it Sep 16 01:01:09 DocScrutinizer05, added Sep 16 01:07:42 :-D Sep 16 01:08:45 RiD: actually it's probably a tad problematic to see the hover-texts Sep 16 01:08:56 on N900 Sep 16 01:09:12 hm? don't know, let me check it Sep 16 01:09:19 well, not problematic but at least not straight forward Sep 16 01:09:53 one is at "micro-AB (OTG)" Sep 16 01:10:40 another one at "...just started" Sep 16 01:10:44 hm, what do you mean with hover? Sep 16 01:11:17 LOL Sep 16 01:11:24 only now i saw the little dots Sep 16 01:11:53 hover == move mouse cursor over sth Sep 16 01:12:28 the page is not yet finalized, but a lot better than 8h ago Sep 16 01:12:53 i put the mouse on top of it but don't see any hover text (??) Sep 16 01:13:14 the "...and more to come!" promise is meant that way Sep 16 01:13:32 hmm Sep 16 01:14:05 i am completely lost at what you are trying to say with these hover texts Sep 16 01:14:21 > >Micro-AB (OTG )with prototyping support in battery compartment for your own ideas<< has hover text "and it won't break ;-)" Sep 16 01:14:45 i see Sep 16 01:14:59 it doesnt show up at all Sep 16 01:15:22 on N900 you need to use cursor mode, definitely Sep 16 01:15:33 and even then I dunno if or not it will work Sep 16 01:15:36 thats what i was using - it doesn't show Sep 16 01:15:41 :-S Sep 16 01:15:49 i use it all time, awesome to select text Sep 16 01:15:55 yup Sep 16 01:16:05 faster than android's way Sep 16 01:16:18 i always choose the wrong line or eventually mess it all up Sep 16 01:16:26 >>The project has just started.<< has hover text "End of August, 2013" Sep 16 01:17:11 it doesn't show up Sep 16 01:17:32 though I don't think it should rely too much on hover texts, even on computers Sep 16 01:18:00 we don't ;-) Sep 16 01:18:41 hover texts are "nice to know" factoids that don't break the story line when missing Sep 16 01:20:00 I wonder how many new users will come here to this channel, after clicking on >>your valuable input!<< Sep 16 01:20:35 it'll be guest madness (not reallyx Sep 16 01:20:42 DocScrutinizer05: neo900 is great idea! Sep 16 01:20:57 anyways i saw your topic related with pulseaudio, xprot and etc Sep 16 01:21:28 aah, yeah? Sep 16 01:21:33 is it really messing with the headphones output? Sep 16 01:21:47 I think in some way it does Sep 16 01:21:55 you mentioned dynamic compression and etc. I honestly never noticed tha Sep 16 01:22:06 but i dont have any proper setup Sep 16 01:22:10 for sure volume of headphones is limited to less than the amp could do Sep 16 01:22:37 i have volumedaemon to squeeze out that little extra, from 88 to 100 Sep 16 01:22:43 the dynamic compression noticeable on speakers Sep 16 01:22:59 aah, nice. never tested that Sep 16 01:23:09 it actually makes a difference Sep 16 01:23:14 sure Sep 16 01:23:22 before that i always had alsamixer -c0 in xterm Sep 16 01:23:30 :-D Sep 16 01:23:41 but these were the days I used the original earphones Sep 16 01:23:42 the hardcore hacker way Sep 16 01:23:49 and i thought they were loud...jesus Sep 16 01:24:50 nedko: if you like neo900, consider voting at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Sep 16 01:25:06 (i always have my volume louder than most, was born with some "deafness" problems) Sep 16 01:26:02 I thought N900 original accessory earphones were just unbearable Sep 16 01:26:13 both quality and comfort Sep 16 01:26:15 they sound very muddy Sep 16 01:27:06 :nod: Sep 16 01:27:14 ? Sep 16 01:27:38 muddy Sep 16 01:27:58 DocScrutinizer05: done :) Sep 16 01:28:06 :-) Sep 16 01:28:15 do you disagree? Sep 16 01:28:36 not at all, im my culture nodding means agreement Sep 16 01:28:45 oh...my bad Sep 16 01:32:23 DocScrutinizer05: is there a mailing list for neo900? fora drive me crazy... Sep 16 01:38:41 its late... see ya Sep 16 01:42:12 nedko: not really, yet Sep 16 01:43:08 nedko: but I sympathize, we will set up sth in due time Sep 16 01:45:18 DocScrutinizer05: i wonder what i can help neo900 with Sep 16 01:45:47 for now spread the word! :-) Sep 16 01:46:15 or join the FPTF and contribute there, if that's one of your domains of expertise Sep 16 01:46:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 Sep 16 01:47:05 i'm already spreading the word :) Sep 16 01:48:10 we urgently need all the help we can get, to port fremantle kernel and core system to Neo900 Sep 16 01:52:14 i love maemo/n900 Sep 16 01:52:32 but isn't time to move onto say something like sailfish? Sep 16 01:52:44 if we stay in the past we'll never move on Sep 16 01:53:30 I will be helping with reverse engineering wherever possible Sep 16 01:54:40 DocScrutinizer05: i do C, user and kernel programming, [debian] packaging. but i've not done almost nothing on my n900. i once did a pygtk app for it but i don't think this really counts :] Sep 16 01:54:55 DocScrutinizer05: i'm also somewhat used to D-Bus Sep 16 01:55:40 also, kernel port matters much less Sep 16 01:55:52 you must need to get userland working Sep 16 01:56:03 and userland runs fine with whatever kernel Sep 16 01:56:42 nedko: great, we need d-bus experts to replace the csd* bits Sep 16 01:57:08 mashina: sorry that's not correct Sep 16 01:57:20 i am used to desktopland of course Sep 16 01:57:34 but if you provide the same kernel servs.. Sep 16 01:57:55 mashina: we have a whole lot of middleware that is closely entangled with /sys/ Sep 16 01:58:00 What we need is someone skilled in the art of reverse engineering unknown dbus calls (of course such a person may not exist) Sep 16 01:58:25 d-bus is all fine Sep 16 01:58:26 DocScrutinizer05: they need to be rewritten to work with new hardware and to be open source? Sep 16 01:58:32 d-bus *skills* Sep 16 01:58:41 yep Sep 16 01:59:29 jonwil can point you at some wiki page that has details Sep 16 02:00:04 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_dbus ? Sep 16 02:00:15 Yeah thats a good place to start Sep 16 02:00:28 Reverse engineering unknown dbus calls is hard :P Sep 16 02:00:41 csd are the low level modem daemons that do SMS, signal, PIN/SIM/whatever... Sep 16 02:01:24 yes, the CSD is the daemon that talks to the cellular modem Sep 16 02:01:28 we can't and don't want to use same modem as on N900 (Nokia BB5) Sep 16 02:01:48 and we need to replace it with something that talks to the new modems in the Neo90o (via fsogsmd) Sep 16 02:01:49 but we want to use the same dbus clients as in n900? Sep 16 02:01:57 yes we do Sep 16 02:02:10 We want to keep things like the phone dialer, messaging app and other stuff working as-is Sep 16 02:02:16 yes, the d-bus API shall stay compatible Sep 16 02:02:26 makes sense to me Sep 16 02:02:36 \o/ :-D Sep 16 02:03:19 The hard part is figuring out what all the dbus calls actually do Sep 16 02:03:29 And what the parameters to those calls really mean Sep 16 02:03:41 dbus has good monitoring capabilities Sep 16 02:03:52 yep it does Sep 16 02:04:01 but that doesn't always help us figure out what the unknown calls actually do Sep 16 02:04:16 hmm Sep 16 02:04:23 but arent the clients open source? Sep 16 02:04:28 dbus clients Sep 16 02:04:30 nope Sep 16 02:05:11 i'd prefer to run as few closed source modules as possible Sep 16 02:05:48 yeah so would I Sep 16 02:06:01 but in this case replacing things like the dialer and messaging app is not easy Sep 16 02:06:16 and there are far better uses of what programmer time we are able to get Sep 16 02:06:30 writing "a phone dialer" isn't hard Sep 16 02:06:52 writing a phone dialer that is feature and interface compatible with the one on the N900 is whats hard Sep 16 02:07:23 i.e. the phone dialer does a lot more than it appears on the surface and figuring out all the special cases and funky bits is where the difficultly is Sep 16 02:07:35 fsogsmd is the module that will talk to the hw Sep 16 02:07:44 and it needs to export the nokia dbus api? Sep 16 02:07:48 yes Sep 16 02:07:52 that's the idea Sep 16 02:08:51 do we want to modify fsogsmd or we'd rather implement a different daemon that will act as a proxy to couple the two sets of dbus interfaces? Sep 16 02:09:06 either that or writing a thin compatibility layer called csd with two d-bus heads, one to fsogsmd and one pretending to be csd Sep 16 02:09:31 hah, you beat me to it Sep 16 02:09:35 this is what i meant with "proxy" Sep 16 02:10:03 i like the compatibility layer Sep 16 02:10:09 * DocScrutinizer05 too Sep 16 02:10:16 it will keep nokia stuff out of fsogsmd Sep 16 02:10:37 :nod: Sep 16 02:10:45 and when/if we write new, they will use the fsogsmd api Sep 16 02:10:52 yep Sep 16 02:11:04 s/new/new apps/ Sep 16 02:11:05 nedko meant: and when/if we write new apps, they will use the fsogsmd api Sep 16 02:11:11 meh Sep 16 02:11:12 :] Sep 16 02:11:16 at least if it's something we don't need nor want on original n900-maemo5 Sep 16 02:12:10 compatibility (even binary) to N900 is the major goal Sep 16 02:13:43 FYI, it is my view that if we have to modify telepathy-ring, rtcom-call-ui or rtcom-messaging-ui at all, we have failed the goals of the project. Sep 16 02:13:51 i do some cellular stuff with my n900 and inspect the dbus messages exchanged Sep 16 02:14:00 s/i do/i can do/ Sep 16 02:14:00 nedko meant: i can do some cellular stuff with my n900 and inspect the dbus messages exchanged Sep 16 02:14:15 great Sep 16 02:14:29 sounds like a proper task you can pick up Sep 16 02:14:50 document all dbus msgs that go to or from csd Sep 16 02:15:28 yup Sep 16 02:16:14 i'll keep you informed on my progress, but don't hold your breath. i have other things to do :) Sep 16 02:17:41 please check http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308, and report there as well Sep 16 02:18:04 the results of your work probably best go to a wiki page Sep 16 02:19:08 I planned to list all members of the FPTF in post#1, but I failed on keeping track, so you better introduce yourself there and explain the task you picked Sep 16 02:58:44 jonwil: the introspection xmls that the csd returns doesnt strictly match the actual protocol. i already found a mismatch Sep 16 02:58:57 where? Sep 16 02:59:21 --dest=com.nokia.csd.Info /com/nokia/csd/info com.nokia.csd.Info.GetPublicId Sep 16 02:59:28 it returns array of bytes **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 16 02:59:58 2013