**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 18 03:00:00 2013 Sep 18 05:11:30 http://wiki.maemo.org/Porting/Audio Sep 18 07:18:43 hm. my ms surface is showing up today Sep 18 07:18:47 hope it can bt tether to the n900 Sep 18 07:18:48 heh Sep 18 07:19:02 although it says it can adhoc so i'll believe it when i see it Sep 18 08:47:59 Pali: mmh, can't bme replacement charge from a usb host when g_ether is loaded? Sep 18 08:50:08 kerio: do not know, usb gadget must ask for 500mA from usb host Sep 18 08:50:25 i thought all usb gadget modules did that Sep 18 08:50:31 no Sep 18 08:50:50 only those which have specified it in source file Sep 18 08:51:03 or maybe it is possible to change also via sysfs - but do not know Sep 18 08:51:33 kerio: and patches for gadget drivers are rejected, read what I wrote to #maemo-ssu Sep 18 08:52:47 daaaaamn, usb networking is so much faster than wifi or bt pan Sep 18 08:52:58 the lack of lag is the most surprising thing Sep 18 08:53:04 still randomly get broken pipes though Sep 18 08:53:20 maybe your pipes Sep 18 08:53:27 my pipes are stronk Sep 18 09:14:50 ok, this is silly Sep 18 09:15:10 i synchronized my n900's clock this morning Sep 18 09:15:19 and now it's at -1.5s again Sep 18 09:48:55 hello Sep 18 09:49:06 does n900 TV out cable have any pins mixed up? Sep 18 09:49:32 or I can use a standard RGB tulips and 3+1 pin stereo jack? Sep 18 09:58:29 kerio: but then you need a cable connected Sep 18 09:58:41 who wants that? it isn't 2003 anymore Sep 18 09:58:43 well ofc Sep 18 09:58:47 on the other hand Sep 18 09:58:51 heh Sep 18 09:58:56 you can actually see you typing as you type Sep 18 09:59:27 hm Sep 18 09:59:37 i was using bt dun a few minutes ago Sep 18 09:59:42 it wasnt laggy at all Sep 18 10:04:38 DocScrutinizer05: does the GTA04 motherboard have all the same kinds of hardware as the N900? (fm transmitter etc) Sep 18 10:06:37 cool, was that N900 that featured in breaking bad S05E14? Sep 18 10:06:45 "your fancy phone" Sep 18 12:43:14 hi guys ive installed a couple of apps that dont seem to show up in the app screen; other than command line is there a graphical way to find them? Sep 18 12:43:24 also is "faster app manager" any good? Sep 18 12:45:09 "faster app manager" is NOT good Sep 18 12:45:58 or so says the experts around here every time someone brings up the subject :) Sep 18 12:47:00 ok Sep 18 12:47:20 how do i scan through installed apps that dont show up in the app screen Sep 18 12:47:28 well, FAM is quite helpful when you want to install many things at once, but it doesn't show all packages either Sep 18 12:47:38 oooaaaooo: I go the apt-cache search route :) Sep 18 12:47:53 gomiam: howbout ui? maybe an app? Sep 18 12:48:11 oooaaaooo: I don't remember if there is a version of synaptic for maemo... Sep 18 12:48:15 gomiam: does HAM have a installed apps menu? Sep 18 12:48:21 gomiam: :P Sep 18 12:48:23 maemo - there's no app for that Sep 18 12:49:08 oooaaaooo: kinda, if you go to the uninstall section it shows what is installed Sep 18 12:49:14 gomiam: ok Sep 18 12:49:24 and yes, you can install synaptic on maemo (at least on n900) Sep 18 12:49:39 gomiam: oh? Sep 18 12:49:46 just checked Sep 18 12:49:54 let me see what the repository is Sep 18 12:50:38 it seems to be at http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle non-free Sep 18 12:50:46 its being non-free is a bit of a surprise thougfh Sep 18 12:52:20 hmm Sep 18 12:53:54 the good part of it is you probably have it already available Sep 18 12:53:59 i downloaded the sixaxis package and cant see any icon for it Sep 18 12:54:20 gomiam: what in the cat? Sep 18 12:55:16 oooaaaooo: synaptic, a GUI package manager for Debian and Ubuntu that seems to be available on Fremantle too Sep 18 13:01:06 DocScrutinizer05: GTA04 actually has IrDA Sep 18 13:01:30 yeah, thought as much Sep 18 13:01:39 there's just no kernel driver for it Sep 18 13:02:18 Nikolaus pointed it out regarding table on website ;) Sep 18 13:02:28 dunno if you need many drivers for SIR Sep 18 13:03:33 yeah, it's probably easy, just no one has done it yet Sep 18 13:03:44 SIR basically is "replace rs232 cable by a lightbeam", literally Sep 18 13:05:39 just that the 1 bits are not 100% but 3/18 of a bit length iirc Sep 18 13:05:40 is it actually useful for anything except for universal remotes, nowadays? Sep 18 13:06:46 since it's on UART3 it is *very* convenient to get boot console ;-) Sep 18 13:07:03 ooh, neat Sep 18 13:07:13 ...if only i had *anything else* with irda Sep 18 13:08:05 can't we get a usb serial console? Sep 18 13:08:05 like, emulate a ftdi chip Sep 18 13:08:57 I think that should get done in kernel Sep 18 13:09:36 during boot time? Sep 18 13:09:43 btw USB can even do "true serial" Sep 18 13:10:09 D+ = TX, D- = RX Sep 18 13:12:33 On n900 hardware? Sep 18 13:13:52 I think that's a cpommon feature of USB cores Sep 18 13:14:01 common even Sep 18 13:17:21 maybe I'm wrong, coffee deficit Sep 18 13:17:46 does GTA04 have FM? Sep 18 13:17:49 USB specs list it as a standard mode Sep 18 13:17:56 sure Sep 18 13:18:36 "even with RDS" Sep 18 13:19:06 * RST38h moos Sep 18 13:19:23 mooeerrks *cough* Sep 18 13:20:39 N900 doesn't have RDS support in reciever, does it? Sep 18 13:21:06 it has afaik Sep 18 13:21:32 k Sep 18 13:21:52 gta04: SI4721BG, N900: SI4705(?) Sep 18 13:21:58 at least it can show channel info Sep 18 13:22:21 not sure if that qualifies it as rds-capable, though Sep 18 13:22:32 ok, I remember sending RDS via transmitter, just weren't sure if rx had it too Sep 18 13:22:33 it does Sep 18 13:26:42 though *all* that audio stuff gives us some headache, since it's completely different between GTA04 and N900 Sep 18 13:27:04 but hey, nokia did it, we can do as well ;-) Sep 18 13:27:38 tlv320aic34 is sourcable in million quatities and single chips Sep 18 13:28:02 DocScrutinizer05: http://wiki.maemo.org/Porting/Audio Sep 18 13:28:18 give me some 30min to wake up Sep 18 13:28:25 ok :) Sep 18 13:29:11 IMPLEMENT WHOLE N900 IN AN FPGA! Sep 18 13:29:19 e.g. the SI4721BG is connected to SoC via McBSP Sep 18 13:29:21 * RST38h hides, will shut up now Sep 18 13:30:11 RST38h: that's for next decade. You know the C64 also took ten years to come as chip in the joystick Sep 18 13:37:36 So basically the issues are whether our decompile of policy-settings-rx51 is accurate (and whether changes are required to reflect hardware/software differences), how we can decompile policy.dresc (and whether changes are required to reflect hardware/software differences), what to do about the cellular audio issue and whether pasr, alsa-policy-enforcement or pulseaudio-nokia need any changes... Sep 18 13:37:38 ...to reflect hardware/software differences other than the cellular audio problem Sep 18 13:38:14 what is neo900 Sep 18 13:38:21 ~neo900 Sep 18 13:38:22 [neo900] at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142, or at http://neo900.org/ Sep 18 13:38:57 holy shit, are you kidding me :O Sep 18 13:42:03 heh, I don't even know how to spell "kidding" Sep 18 13:43:08 omg I'm about to start crying Sep 18 13:43:33 why? about that waste of energy? Sep 18 13:43:52 since many think it's exactly that Sep 18 13:44:36 shhh, let me dream a little bit! Sep 18 13:44:42 :-D Sep 18 13:44:59 hehe a new fan Sep 18 13:46:41 you will want to *read* the whole http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 to get *really* excited. It gets better with every bit of additional info you receive Sep 18 13:47:21 Neo900 got another mention on slashdot Sep 18 13:47:23 http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4227097&cid=44881285 Sep 18 13:47:29 \o/ Sep 18 13:47:31 I've always been a fan, but I was unable to see any future for n900 Sep 18 13:47:43 now there is Sep 18 13:47:58 ;-) Sep 18 13:48:29 how should one address an issue with the LTE chip in the neo900? Sep 18 13:48:48 it's commonly considered that HARM and N9 been a move into the wrong direction, now we gonna correct this Sep 18 13:49:05 n900-dk: an issue? Sep 18 13:49:16 n900-dk: what issues do you have? Sep 18 13:49:48 DocScrutinizer05: time to submit it to /. and hackernews? Sep 18 13:50:07 is doesn't support LTE on 800MHz Sep 18 13:50:25 pabs3: dos1 and me are about to do - though it seems somebody was faster than us? see above Sep 18 13:50:39 That was just a comment in another thread Sep 18 13:50:45 aaah Sep 18 13:50:51 We need an actual story I guess Sep 18 13:50:58 agreed Sep 18 13:51:14 dos1, GeneralAntilles, and me will draft a nice thread starter post for /. Sep 18 13:51:25 I never actually used the N900, is the touchscreen good? Sep 18 13:51:33 excellent Sep 18 13:51:48 several European mobile operators have LTE on the 800MHz band, so it should be supported Sep 18 13:51:48 Hey, if a Crapberry phone can get a story, surely a phone like the Neo900 can get a story Sep 18 13:52:21 Hi, just wanted to drop a "Happy to see plans for a n900 future" Sep 18 13:52:21 the difference to gta02 panel is like the differnce between sweet buttercream and concrete Sep 18 13:52:29 pabs3: it is perfect Sep 18 13:52:49 n900-dk, if you can find an LTE module that supports the bands you need, that's available in small quantities and that is open enough for the Neo900, feel free to suggest Sep 18 13:52:52 n900-dk: alas we don't have mucjh options but Option modules Sep 18 13:52:53 pabs3: depends on if you prefer resistive or capacitive touch Sep 18 13:53:34 the Telit LE920 4g/LTE Module seems to have support for 800MHz Sep 18 13:54:12 but I bet telit wont sell to you unless you are ordering big numbers Sep 18 13:54:17 depends on if you're a potato-brained-WOOOWWW-MULTITOUCH-5-finger-gestures guy... Sep 18 13:54:31 n900-dk: we did literally years of checking what options we have for cellular. It's about availability, documentation, price, size, whatnot else Sep 18 13:54:39 Option is almost perfect Sep 18 13:55:01 option is a best option for us :) Sep 18 13:55:26 e.g. LTE on Deutsche Telekom will not be an option then Sep 18 13:55:36 or TDC in Denmark Sep 18 13:56:20 I checked the Telit modules and the company some 2 yeras ago, can't recall much about it right now. But rest ashured we try hard to find the best modem we can get, since it would be insane to go for anything less than the best option Sep 18 13:56:50 but pretty stupid to make the same mistake as Apple did with the iPhone5.. Sep 18 13:57:42 Option may come up with an improved modem module eventually, and i'd hope it is as pin compatible and drop-in replacement as the 601 and 609 and 801 Sep 18 13:57:52 maybe even a 801i Sep 18 13:58:18 you dissolder the 801 and solder in the 801i, eh? Sep 18 13:58:21 deal? Sep 18 13:58:51 So does the Option modem support Quad Band GSM/EDGE? Sep 18 13:58:53 of course if that 801i appears before we start MP, we will try hard to swap Sep 18 13:59:09 And does it support UMTS on 850, 900 and 2100? Sep 18 13:59:32 n900-dk: well, it'd be hardly "an mistake" here, as that's our limitation, not concious design choice "let's not include LTE on 800!" Sep 18 14:00:01 http://www.roundsolutions.com/shop/products/en/Modules-and-accessories/LTE-Module/GTM801-thinnest-LGA-4G-LGA-Module.html Sep 18 14:00:25 jonwil: yes and yes (according to datasheet) Sep 18 14:00:39 yeah you are right, but why loose a lot of potential users already from day 1 Sep 18 14:00:57 because we have no better options Sep 18 14:01:29 there are other - maybe technically better - modules, but they are *huge* Sep 18 14:02:15 so what to do? swap battery lid for mugen cover? Sep 18 14:02:20 to fit the telit in? Sep 18 14:02:28 ok, it was just a heads up, to make sure someone thought about this issue Sep 18 14:02:49 rest assured we think about such topics all day and night Sep 18 14:03:47 we're fanatic to build THE BEST product we could come up with Sep 18 14:04:28 every single missed out opportunity, every single little oopsie is a personal embarrassment to us Sep 18 14:04:42 let's come up with 16-core 20GHz and 128 GB RAM, why loose potential users? :D Sep 18 14:05:04 anyway many thanks for bringing it up, please continue with input, we can use as much of it as we can get Sep 18 14:05:43 dos1: no sarcasm needed, n900-dk's concerns are perfectly sane and helpful as well Sep 18 14:05:58 Its not clear from that GTM801 page if it really supports UMTS900 or not Sep 18 14:06:17 jonwil: the get the datasheet Sep 18 14:06:21 then* Sep 18 14:07:07 About the only band it doesn't support is 1700MHz UMTS for T-Mobile USA Sep 18 14:07:20 though: > >UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA/HSPA+/DCHSPA +800-850/1900/2100/AWS MHz (B1 /B2/B4/B5/B6) at 42 Mbps DL/5.7 6Mbps UL max speed<< Sep 18 14:08:02 B1 /B2/B4/B5/B6 is pretty specific Sep 18 14:08:26 That seems to be a different page to the one I am looking at Sep 18 14:08:39 http://www.roundsolutions.com/shop/products/en/Modules-and-accessories/LTE-Module/GTM801-thinnest-LGA-4G-LGA-Module.html Sep 18 14:08:46 I am looking at http://www.roundsolutions.com/techdocs/ds/GTM801U.pdf which says "900" Sep 18 14:09:00 800-850/900/1900/2100 Sep 18 14:09:29 looks like there are two versions Sep 18 14:09:34 HAH Sep 18 14:09:47 > >FDD-LTE :700/850/1900/AWS MHz (B2/B4 /B5/B17) at 100 Mbps DL/50 Mbps UL<< Sep 18 14:09:49 800/900/1800/2100/2600 (E), 700/850/1900/AWS (U) Sep 18 14:09:55 with LTE Sep 18 14:12:48 given the multitude of bands the TX/RX section supports, and the fact that the difference between GSM, UMTS, and LTE is mostly the modulation/protocol, I guess it's just a question of firmware to support bands on radio-technology-Y that already are available freq at any other supported radio-technology of the module Sep 18 14:13:43 * DocScrutinizer05 now starts to regret that he didn't work on radio stack when jobbing for ST-E Sep 18 14:15:16 Sounds like Option has modems that do most of the frequency bands out there Sep 18 14:15:32 its just a matter of picking the one needed for your carrier/country Sep 18 14:15:37 I would be surprised if they didn't Sep 18 14:16:26 and it seems like the different versions are probably hardware/software/pin compatible (it would be stupid to not do it that way) Sep 18 14:16:30 anyway for even further supplementary info check the chipset: QualcomMDM9215/9615 Sep 18 14:18:02 Option for sure doesn't build teir own radio stack firmware for the chipset they use Sep 18 14:19:40 I suspect it should be possible to produce the Neo900 with options for different-frequency pin/hw/sw-compatible Option modems (in the same way as the old GTA02 had variants for different frequencies since it wasnt quad-band GSM) Sep 18 14:20:20 yup Sep 18 14:20:38 the same way you'll be able to choose between 601, 609 and 801 Sep 18 14:22:09 but yeah, Roundsolutions says B1 /B2/B4/B5/B6 in one page and B1, B2, B5, B6, B8 in the other sheet, for UMTS Sep 18 14:22:23 what good is the CDMA choice given that the networks that support CDMA? (i.e. sprint, Verizon) wont let you activate any phone not originally sold for their network Sep 18 14:23:16 not our problem ;-) Sep 18 14:23:18 sounds like a good reason to sue them <.< Sep 18 14:23:28 and to not use cdma.. or buy phones from operators Sep 18 14:24:06 jonwil: we just offer Option options (God, I love this pun) Sep 18 14:24:26 optional options Sep 18 14:24:59 makes sense, if it will fit on the PCB and if Option (or whoever resells Option parts) will sell it to you then there is no reason not to offer it as a choice :) Sep 18 14:25:24 seems the Option GTM801 either has unclear fuzzy specs or actually comes in different variants Sep 18 14:25:46 It probably does come in multiple versions Sep 18 14:25:51 roundsolutions is our reseller Sep 18 14:26:05 nice guys Sep 18 14:26:09 ok Sep 18 14:26:15 they know us by name ;-) Sep 18 14:26:45 they have awesome antennae as well, btw Sep 18 14:27:11 and other nice stuff Sep 18 14:32:25 so are we going to be using the same bluetooth, FMRX and FMTX as the GTA04? Sep 18 14:35:42 I would assume we would since I doubt we would be able to get hold of the BCM2048... :) Sep 18 14:35:57 Broadcomm isn't known for selling its parts in low volumes Sep 18 14:50:25 LOL, severe security threat in MSIE6..11, outlook, OE, windows mail, winXP..win8 Sep 18 14:50:36 heh Sep 18 14:50:43 what a surprise :) Sep 18 14:50:46 I dont use Intercrap Exploder Sep 18 14:50:50 totally unexpected Sep 18 14:50:58 absolutely Sep 18 14:51:51 I suspect at some point we may need to clone pulseaudio-nokia-* if we really want to move forward :P Sep 18 14:51:59 jonwil: WLAN/BT and FM(rx|tx) are unchanged from GTA04, yes Sep 18 14:52:10 as of now Sep 18 14:52:54 *maybe* we find a better WLAN(/BT) module that gives us less headache with SoC interface assignment Sep 18 14:53:16 but chances for that are _very_ low Sep 18 14:53:30 finding good WLAN modules is a PITA Sep 18 14:55:07 about general audio, I have to have a loooong phonecall with Nikolaus about getting original N900 audio gear into Neo900, as that's the only way forward for FPTF project I see feasible Sep 18 14:55:25 DocScrutinizer05: Not TI wilink like in panda? Sep 18 14:55:27 Yes that is definatly the right way to go Sep 18 14:55:30 read: tlv320aic34 Sep 18 14:56:24 Will we be using TWL4030 (or something that has compatible audio bits)? Sep 18 14:57:00 then we still face annoyances like Si4721BG connected audio to SoC via McBSP instead tof the analog way used in N900 for FMTX Sep 18 14:57:43 FMTX/FMRX isn't as big a deal for audio since those subsystems seem somewhat separated from the rest of the audio system in Fremantle Sep 18 14:57:58 seems twl4030 audio is flawed, according to ujXXXX-forgot-his-name Sep 18 14:58:17 poor audio quality Sep 18 14:58:58 ok, so N900 isn't using twl4030 audio bits? Sep 18 14:59:09 if it isn't then its not an issue for us Sep 18 14:59:17 not at all afaik - verification pending Sep 18 14:59:28 ok Sep 18 14:59:58 just a pity to "waste" all those functions we already paid for Sep 18 15:00:16 but when they are crap, we happily bin them Sep 18 15:00:32 I think the goal should be to make the Neo900 audio system as close to the N900 audio system as we can get Sep 18 15:00:41 add some contact pads for twl4030 so hw hackers will be able to use it Sep 18 15:00:57 (dunno if it makes sense, just quick idea ;)) Sep 18 15:01:09 yes, exactly - we CANNOT redesign _all_ that nasty audio blobs in fremantle to match a new hw Sep 18 15:01:22 dos1: an excellent idea Sep 18 15:01:40 there will still be a need for reverse engineering of N900 pulseaudio-nokia blobs to identify things Sep 18 15:01:50 or partial reverse engineering at least Sep 18 15:01:56 why? Sep 18 15:02:09 cellmo audio at least Sep 18 15:02:17 well, that. yes Sep 18 15:02:20 Read what I wrote on the "audio" page on wiki Sep 18 15:02:37 that covers our options and what we need to do going forward Sep 18 15:02:44 I hope to plumb new cellmo in a way audio (ped) doesn't notice a difference Sep 18 15:03:47 it's not like the phone part actually matters Sep 18 15:03:57 remember that pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice (and embedded static copy of libcmtspeech) talks very specific interface to BB5 modem Sep 18 15:03:58 ohplease! Sep 18 15:04:18 hence why pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice is such a problem for us Sep 18 15:04:40 jonwil: yes, I'm aware, and that will be a HUGE headache to us, but once we hacked that everything else will "just work" Sep 18 15:04:44 just embed a ham radio :P Sep 18 15:05:00 wouldn't we tie ourselves to the fremantle dialer, this way? Sep 18 15:05:08 s/dialer/phone stack/ or something Sep 18 15:05:12 (libcmtspeech/pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice) Sep 18 15:05:44 kerio: no, just as we are ot tied to fremantle dialer right now Sep 18 15:06:04 you already can start a call via pnat ATD Sep 18 15:07:07 and end the call via ATH Sep 18 15:07:19 mmm Sep 18 15:09:16 kerio: it's actually just about audio Sep 18 15:09:38 basically about a virtual "soundcard" Sep 18 15:10:01 and yes, basically cmt *should* be just another ALSA soundcard Sep 18 15:10:10 but its not Sep 18 15:10:21 alas it's not, in fremantle Sep 18 15:11:12 in SHR I suggested that approach, and I think they adopted it or at least planned to adopt it in future Sep 18 15:12:27 I strongly suspect we will need to clone libcmtspeech/pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice (using the Meego/Harmattan bits to help with that). That or go with giant hacks sitting in the kernel to convert "BB5" Sep 18 15:12:38 "BB5" flavor audio into "option" flavor audio Sep 18 15:12:47 audio and audio related commands Sep 18 15:12:49 yep, either of those two Sep 18 15:13:10 nobody said cmt will be easy Sep 18 15:13:34 cellular audio is now shaping up as the #1 hardest part of the entire FPTF project Sep 18 15:14:57 but we *definitely* will get cmt to work, easily, when we don't care about fremantle/hildon integration and use our own dialer. That's an option for early POC show-off though. As well as for very-long-term goals to transform fremantle into something completely free Sep 18 15:16:24 tbh I think fremantle audio is thorougly flawed by design, to start with. Alas we won't be able to replace it by something better or more open, at least not during next 6 months Sep 18 15:17:31 then whole ped concept is one huge abomination Sep 18 15:17:35 the* Sep 18 15:17:57 and PA is... well peottering. nuff said about that Sep 18 15:18:26 the more I think about this, the more I suspect the list of packages we will need to reverse engineer or clone for the Neo900 is going to be larger than it looks at first glance Sep 18 15:19:13 hey, isn't that quite the opposite of what you said ~4 days ago? Sep 18 15:19:29 that was 4 days ago before I looked deeper into this Sep 18 15:19:35 hehe Sep 18 15:19:46 Whats the plan for camera? Use same cameras as N900? Use GTA04 camera? Use something else? Sep 18 15:19:50 Undecided? Sep 18 15:19:55 N900 cam Sep 18 15:19:57 but before that, at the very beginning, you said the same as now :) Sep 18 15:20:02 100% compatibility Sep 18 15:20:21 jonwil: it's even on http://neo900.org/ now :D Sep 18 15:20:44 ok, in that case we can move the camera bits onto the "stuff we dont need to clone" list Sep 18 15:21:27 since we are using identical cameras and camera interface (I assume OMAP3430 and 3730 camera interface bits are compatible...) Sep 18 15:22:30 DocScrutinizer05: I decided to add screen details etc to the table, as people coming from Openmoko/OpenPhoenux community may also see Neo900 as upgrade for GTA04 (hw keyboard, bigger screen without bezel, camera etc.) Sep 18 15:23:01 dos1: werner almesberger complained that the list comparing features is already a list of features and not a mere comparison, and thus he'd expect basics like screen etc there as well Sep 18 15:23:10 or there may be people who skipped GTA04, but will want to upgrade GTA02 with Neo900 Sep 18 15:23:13 DocScrutinizer05: yup, seen that Sep 18 15:23:27 anyone know if 3430 and 3730 DSP bits are compatible? Sep 18 15:24:06 jonwil: i'd hope cam IF is 100% compatible between 3430 and 3730, yes Sep 18 15:24:19 same for DSP I hope Sep 18 15:24:24 and when Nikolaus suggested including storage info, I've added everything that came to my mind to that list Sep 18 15:25:16 if camera IF isnt 100% compatible, I bet we can hide the differences in kernel drivers :) Sep 18 15:25:31 if there's anything I missed feel free to ping me Sep 18 15:25:54 jonwil: [2013-09-18 15:59:25] freemangordon: I moved et8ek8 firmware into kernel drive r[2013-09-18 15:59:45] so driver does not need external "firmware" from userspace Sep 18 15:26:41 just to note et8ek8 firmware file is only kernel C structure with some data Sep 18 15:26:47 jonwil: (hide in kernel) yep, definitely. The original idea about FPTF Sep 18 15:26:48 at some point I even had LEDs and buttons listed there, but then I realised it's starting to go into too much detail ;) Sep 18 15:26:51 so it is not "real" firmware Sep 18 15:28:52 dos1: we have a hard time finding a solution for the fast swap either Sep 18 15:30:08 it's largely unclear if those §32GB flash + 2GB RAM" eMMC chips actually have one bus for both, or a dedicated bus for each. The latter would render it useless for our purposes Sep 18 15:30:23 s/§/"/ Sep 18 15:30:23 DocScrutinizer05 meant: it's largely unclear if those "32GB flash + 2GB RAM" eMMC chips actually have one bus for both, or a dedicated bus for each. The latter would render it useless for our purposes Sep 18 15:30:59 What could be a realistic ETA for the Neo900, if it will become a piece of hardware in the future? Sep 18 15:31:18 mid of 2014 Sep 18 15:31:45 maybe faster Sep 18 15:33:12 with first (still buggy) prototypes to show off coming up and of this year maybe Sep 18 15:33:28 s/ an/ en/ Sep 18 15:33:29 DocScrutinizer05 meant: with first (still buggy) prototypes to show off coming up end of this year maybe Sep 18 15:37:16 At this point I think the 5 closed packages likely to cause us the most headaches are pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice, policy-settings-rx51, mce, libsim0 and location-daemon with honorable mention to location-proxy, csd-call and csd-sms Sep 18 15:37:19 dos1: you got no GTA04? Sep 18 15:37:53 jonwil: sounds about right Sep 18 15:38:31 is location-daemon needed for anything but nokia maps? Sep 18 15:38:51 its needed for all GPS apps Sep 18 15:39:00 i.e. anything that talks GPS Sep 18 15:39:39 maybe list them on a wiki page as section headlines, discussing in each section the way this "system" is entangled into fremantle, how it gets involved into Neo900 changes, and the impact it has when we won't tackle/fix it for Neo900 Sep 18 15:39:42 but the other programms could be ported to gpsd.. Sep 18 15:40:00 yes Sep 18 15:40:06 gypsy Sep 18 15:40:56 DocScrutinizer05: nope, just GTA02 Sep 18 15:41:02 I elaborated on GPS somewhere Sep 18 15:41:30 I can buy one 700 EUR phone if I really want to, but two of them is a bit too much :D Sep 18 15:43:04 sure Sep 18 15:43:31 just wondering who's available for testing fremantle ports to GTA04 platform Sep 18 15:44:13 methinks 700eur is already far to much for what one gets :/ Sep 18 15:44:31 not that it gives us much of new knowledge Sep 18 15:44:52 anyway kudos to the project but i am out there, unless the price substantially drops Sep 18 15:44:57 cehteh: well, that's your mileage Sep 18 15:45:14 cehteh: alas price won't drop Sep 18 15:45:22 too bad Sep 18 15:46:18 unless some chip and PCB manufs decide to give us stuff for free or at least at a pricetag they offer to customers buying 1000000 Sep 18 15:46:59 or HEY, until WE buy 1000000 Sep 18 15:47:35 i wonder if you should approach other projects who have better connections, olpc, raspberry pi foundation etc Sep 18 15:47:48 nobody has Sep 18 15:48:04 unless they have exactly same BOM as we do Sep 18 15:48:22 they as well would need to buy 200 units DM3730 SoC Sep 18 15:49:01 and they usually don't get the discount they got for that other chip they bought 1 mio Sep 18 15:49:11 when they buy only 200 Sep 18 15:49:14 i know Sep 18 15:49:16 so it makes no difference Sep 18 15:50:32 do you have some supply for case/screen meanwhile .. i think a lot cases/screens are aging and detorating Sep 18 15:51:06 well, there's fleabay. We got no "better" source yet Sep 18 15:51:41 case (strictly the shell only, incl keymat) is ~17EUR Sep 18 15:52:13 LCD is ~23 Sep 18 15:52:48 you can get all sorts of combinations, like slide mech with FPC (ribbon) and LCD Sep 18 15:53:33 tbh we only did a cursory scan for all that stuff so far Sep 18 15:54:22 for sure getting a used (broken?) N900 and swap the MoBo is the better alternative for our customers. But many don't want to do this Sep 18 15:56:21 freemangordon: Pali: Any news regarding my 2 kernel-power patches? Sep 18 15:56:48 fun detail: often the combi is cheaper than one of the parts it contains Sep 18 15:57:06 brolin_empey: sorry did not have time :-( now we have problem with someone on LKML Sep 18 15:57:12 I think that until it became 100% working nobody will break working phone Sep 18 15:57:24 brolin_empey: but I got another patch from pavel for kernel-power Sep 18 15:57:30 so I will test both Sep 18 15:59:13 so .. just glued the small metall plate which holds the standup against the magnet back into place ... grr .. but at least it didnt got lost when it came loose Sep 18 16:00:52 btw are there any more specs about the jolla phone out yet? Sep 18 16:03:15 nope Sep 18 16:03:25 jolla is not GolDeliCo ;-) Sep 18 16:05:02 it's commercial as in: build product, sell product with a crippled list of fuzzy specs, get the money, eventually disclose the docs Sep 18 16:06:04 GolDeliCo does: publish the docs, publish the specs based on docs, get the money, sell the product ;-) Sep 18 16:06:12 mmh Sep 18 16:06:33 so far, hasn't it been "promise product with crippled list of fuzzy specs, get the money"? Sep 18 16:07:09 well, I don't count any "promise" as anything relevant Sep 18 16:07:24 so it's just "get the money" for now Sep 18 16:07:28 no actual product yet Sep 18 16:07:32 but yes, you're right, that's state of things with jolla Sep 18 16:10:17 ( no actual product yet) ooh, I git a fine t-shirt for 100EUR ;-P Sep 18 16:10:20 got* Sep 18 16:10:28 did you actually get it? Sep 18 16:11:05 I will claim I never did, since then I'm still waiting for Jolla to deliver, and I can step down from the contract Sep 18 16:11:20 Pali: Which problem with whom on (the) LKML? Sep 18 16:11:22 for full refund Sep 18 16:12:03 so you're cheating them off the tshirt! :C Sep 18 16:12:10 OMG Sep 18 16:12:22 brolin_empey: https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/9/8/33 Sep 18 16:12:24 is it good quality at least? Sep 18 16:12:26