**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 26 02:59:59 2013 Sep 26 10:45:26 The Neo900's price is way too costly Sep 26 10:45:30 if the raspberry pi can cost so less Sep 26 10:45:41 I wonder why would 300 Euro be the minimum price Sep 26 10:45:53 it should probably be around inside 100 Euros Sep 26 10:46:13 DaReaper: only if you can sell 1 million on launch day Sep 26 10:46:52 That would be a really bad marketing strategy if you even thought of the 1 Million milestone Sep 26 10:46:53 I doubt Neo900 can do that without any massive propaganda efforts Sep 26 10:47:25 I smell a troll Sep 26 10:47:31 not to mention it lacks the political weight to break into carrier controlled networks Sep 26 10:48:30 Comparing the actual hardware features with that of the N900, it's way overpriced if it has to start at that base. Sep 26 10:49:38 DaReaper: :business: Sep 26 10:50:00 no one is going to do low quantity productions Sep 26 10:50:12 DaReaper: on the other hand, that's pretty much how much it'll cost to make Sep 26 10:50:32 economies of scale hardly has any effect here Sep 26 10:50:40 jon_y: well Sep 26 10:50:45 it's precisely that effect Sep 26 10:51:19 @Kerio there should be an open petition as to disclosure of the components price and the labor charges before coming to a conclusion of that sort Sep 26 10:51:25 kerio: we do have the numbers to make manufacturers happy? Sep 26 10:51:35 of course not Sep 26 10:51:41 no scale, no economy Sep 26 10:51:47 yeah, precisely Sep 26 10:52:05 Usually I'd agree on the bumper price at the start of the launch and a gradual decrease to build brand image Sep 26 10:52:13 DaReaper: the manufacturers tell you NOPE Sep 26 10:52:25 yeah Sep 26 10:52:37 assuming you have a capital and a brand image to build Sep 26 10:52:38 raspberry pi too had its fair share of problems Sep 26 10:52:48 but then a base of 300 Euro gives really hazy picture of the pricing strategy here Sep 26 10:52:58 damn near impossible to get anybody to build it Sep 26 10:53:09 But then problems are a part of business and they're doing still well with their current price Sep 26 10:53:27 sheevaplug > rpi Sep 26 10:53:46 yeah well, these things hardly have any manufacturers picking them up Sep 26 10:54:18 I don't think most manufacturers would even bat an eye if the profit margin is so low Sep 26 10:54:50 well, Chinese factories might pick it up Sep 26 10:55:44 Well if the Chinese can do it like you're saying, then if the manufacturers plan to price more despite them already achieving the goal of profit.. it's overpricing Sep 26 10:56:03 and by Chinese it's not always bad quality as the image has sparkled. Sep 26 10:57:58 DaReaper: chinese are willing to do it if you order 1 billion units Sep 26 10:58:12 they don't mind ultra low margins Sep 26 10:58:19 as long as numbers make up for it Sep 26 10:59:44 Usually the Chinese weren't expecting china phones to be sold elsewhere in the world at the start, they didn't have a 1 Billion unit to be sold goal set. It was how they expanded into the market. Sep 26 10:59:57 I'm taking china phones as an example to this. Sep 26 11:00:14 sure, if you don't mind Neo900 sold in China only :) Sep 26 11:00:45 you'd have to compete with the other million android phones Sep 26 11:02:46 DaReaper: china phones are mostly variations of each other Sep 26 11:02:50 Neo900 has a good open market and it has realized the needs of the people, they've got the hardware requirements. But then I fear if they were to be geographically focused, they'd not be targeting the large customer base. Cause those who've used the N900 would have a good idea of this. Sep 26 11:02:53 rather than completely new builds Sep 26 11:03:23 doing something completely new like the Neo900 has enormous setup costs Sep 26 11:04:04 basically, you give the specs and they design it for you Sep 26 11:04:21 Also, considering China phones... Neo900 can do the very same.. but ofcourse the target customers would only increase over time once they realize it's potential. Sep 26 11:04:50 that is a very very optimistic way of thinking Sep 26 11:04:54 Isn't this based on the gta04? Sep 26 11:05:09 yes, with some modifications iirc Sep 26 11:05:58 Hmm okay, so basically they have the blueprint of this and also gta04 has been kind of a prototype base for it to start with Sep 26 11:06:38 So I wonder if the manufacturing costs would be high considering the product is already existent and is aware of the market and should have learnt of it by now. Sep 26 11:08:26 But ofcourse this is just my personal opinion Sep 26 11:09:07 was kind of uncomfortable after I noticed the prices on the poll. Sep 26 11:09:20 uncomfortable with what? Sep 26 11:09:32 The prices. Sep 26 11:09:44 well do you own a production facility? Sep 26 11:10:23 or know of a way to get a better price Sep 26 11:10:23 No. Sep 26 11:10:39 do you think that there's malice behind that price? Sep 26 11:10:40 I could have ideas, might voice it there. Sep 26 11:11:09 do you think that there's incompetence, and are able to provide a better alternative? Sep 26 11:11:13 No my thoughts weren't directed to anything of that sort. Sep 26 11:11:41 DaReaper: "Comparing the actual hardware features with that of the N900, it's way overpriced if it has to start at that base." Sep 26 11:11:50 No. Sep 26 11:11:51 I'd be willing to pay 700 Euros too, if my salary was in Euros Sep 26 11:11:52 those are the production costs in small quantities Sep 26 11:12:11 yes, it would be better if it was a lot cheaper Sep 26 11:12:17 but as it stands, it's not possible Sep 26 11:12:23 there's no way to make it cheaper without investing lots of money in it which you may never see again, because of small target niche Sep 26 11:12:56 to make it cheaper, you have to manufacture thousands or even milions of them in advance Sep 26 11:13:36 Okay, but it would still depend on how you plan those investments Sep 26 11:13:55 you need to actually find someone with that money Sep 26 11:14:04 The target could be expanded and this depends on the price and in turn if you can smartly invest it can be reduced. Sep 26 11:14:12 "can be" - sure it can Sep 26 11:14:28 so did all the other niche Linux phones Sep 26 11:14:35 if you have millions euros to spend on R&D, marketing, PR and relations with carieers Sep 26 11:14:41 you don't see manufacturers jumping up and down to build them Sep 26 11:14:56 or fanboys everywhere waiting in line Sep 26 11:15:10 unless we get thousands of preorders in advance, we *don't* have that money Sep 26 11:15:38 Yes, but that brings in the factor of what system software it runs on Sep 26 11:16:12 DaReaper: you're free to invest your milions into Neo900 development Sep 26 11:16:30 I'll be happy to see it and future projects like that dominating the mobile market Sep 26 11:16:31 how do you judge the factor if there are none to begin with? Sep 26 11:16:46 Okay, so does there stand a chance where if there were more preorders unlike the 1 Billion goal set, there could be a reduction in price? Sep 26 11:16:49 right now, there are no Neo900 units for customers to feedback on Sep 26 11:17:10 sure, if manufacturers are happy to do so to ramp up numbers Sep 26 11:17:30 you promise them 1billion more units if they can reduce price Sep 26 11:17:46 I'm sure they'd be happy to make another billion if it means more money for them Sep 26 11:18:16 prices can be reduced when there'll be interest on billion level Sep 26 11:18:16 I couldn't judge the factor with none available but then you could categorize the best needed based on the target audience. Sep 26 11:18:55 sure, we can say "it will cost 100 EUR, we just need 1 billion preorders!" Sep 26 11:19:15 DaReaper: not going to work if you only have that big of an audience Sep 26 11:19:16 What if maybe, a marketing agenda was created to have a cheap device just like rpi does? Sep 26 11:19:20 but really? will we get 1 billion preorders? Sep 26 11:19:32 could there be a possibility then maybe without expecting 1 billion preorders you'd still have a lower price Sep 26 11:19:39 no Sep 26 11:19:43 ok, i'll preorder 900 millions Sep 26 11:19:46 nobody has the money for the setup Sep 26 11:19:53 and what then? "sorry, it will cost 600 EUR cause there's not enough interest" Sep 26 11:20:06 okay right, so there's no large investment available okay Sep 26 11:20:06 and then 95% of preorders will be canceled Sep 26 11:20:08 and project failed Sep 26 11:20:12 yay Sep 26 11:20:36 good job guys Sep 26 11:20:38 DaReaper: so far, your only argument is "well maybe it could've been made cheaper somehow" Sep 26 11:20:54 it *will* be cheaper, if only there'll be enough interest Sep 26 11:21:34 we won't seel it for 700 EUR when there'll be 10k preorders Sep 26 11:21:35 which is really a chicken and egg problem unless you have BIG MONEY to sink into advertisement Sep 26 11:21:43 s/seel/sell/ Sep 26 11:21:43 dos1 meant: we won't sell it for 700 EUR when there'll be 10k preorders Sep 26 11:23:29 but we won't promise pie in the sky from start, just to fail to fulfil this promise later Sep 26 11:23:54 ubuntu edge failed their fundraising campain Sep 26 11:24:45 so I wouldn't set hopes so high for neo900 fundraising abilities in this regard Sep 26 11:25:38 To be honest I wasn't arguing or setting up an argument, I just thought there should have been a reason for the hefty pricing initially and I got to know it. I usually get to hear "Good job guys" after a debate's been won and concluded xD Sep 26 11:26:21 But then I'm was of the perspective that maybe the price could be reduced. It's fine anyways. Thanks for solving my query. Sep 26 11:46:44 peaceful again Sep 26 12:00:54 * psycho_oreos skims through the chat buffer, notices something interesting. Reads from start till end and was amazed someone else had similar sort of thing as he did. :o Sep 26 12:01:11 So much for "six degrees of separation.". Sep 26 12:01:52 what did you do, psycho_oreos? Sep 26 12:03:46 jon_y, I didn't do anything. When I read about the prices of Neo900 that people were willing to pay and how much it will cost. I was thinking about potentially outsourcing the work to Chinese. I started thinking more of pros and cons but before I wanted to make a reply (on that thread), I decided to not go ahead with my thought as it may enrage some hardware engineers/designers. Sep 26 12:05:11 I had that sort of idea weeks ago and then all of the sudden whilst I'm in other channel, the very same topic cropped up behind my back. Sep 26 12:06:21 well, it isn't very practical to push it to the Chinese if you have a custome design without big money incentives Sep 26 12:08:35 BTW. one of the great things in GTA04 manufacturing process that Neo900 will inherit is that it's produced in proper working conditions Sep 26 12:08:51 it's manufactured in Bavaria, Germany Sep 26 12:09:29 Yeah I wasn't thinking about that but more-so on the fact that when N900 existed, the Chinese wanted to create a knock-off clone of the N900. Obviously that wasn't a success but if let's say that this new design (we at maemo.org and openmoko.org) have been collaborating on a new device that supersedes N900. We will provide you schematics, interested? Sep 26 12:09:37 no children are harmed during production of OpenPhoenux phones Sep 26 12:09:40 I mean that might somewhat persuade them a little. Sep 26 12:10:14 Yeah that's the other thing that basically stopped me wanting to respond to that thread with my ideas. Sep 26 12:10:24 I think that's good thing that goes really well with the spirit of freedom in this project Sep 26 12:10:40 dos1: so when it's out, how do I go about ordering it? Sep 26 12:11:14 jon_y: probably somewhat similar to current GTA04 - https://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04 Sep 26 12:11:46 does it do international orders? Sep 26 12:11:57 yup Sep 26 12:12:17 how do I look up shipment costs? Sep 26 12:12:26 maybe there'll be some resellers Sep 26 12:12:49 but it's too early to say for sure Sep 26 12:13:09 hmm ok Sep 26 12:13:18 The other thing is that if we restrict it to manufacture strictly at .de. We may also impede on the amount of actual sales. Though of course it's not like as if I have some sort of crystal glass to look into the future and see the outcome of Neo900. Sep 26 12:13:26 dos1: will be out for Christmas? :) Sep 26 12:13:49 Sure the quality in .de is no doubt perfect and all but apart from costs of labour and such may amount to lower sales. Sep 26 12:13:58 jon_y: this year? nope Sep 26 12:14:14 hmm ok, I hope the specs improve next year Sep 26 12:14:30 some 5-6 months from now till release Sep 26 12:14:53 I was hoping I can get it with my year end bonuses :) Sep 26 12:14:56 jon_y, it also heavily depends on the developers porting Fremantle UI across. Sep 26 12:15:17 Invite some more coders/reverse engineers then it may happen. Sep 26 12:15:38 production of hardware can happen independently to fremantle port Sep 26 12:15:50 it won't ship with fremantle preinstalled Sep 26 12:16:16 that is fine too, as long it has uboot on it or something Sep 26 12:16:17 but of course, it'd be nice if it'll be already in some working state on release day Sep 26 12:16:27 so I can boot random binaries off the internet :) Sep 26 12:16:45 jon_y: GTA04 comes with Debian preinstalled Sep 26 12:17:03 we could put Debian on the Neo900 too Sep 26 12:17:06 (without any telephony framework installed, but there's FSO in repos) Sep 26 12:17:30 yup Sep 26 12:17:35 well, if maemo isn't ready by the time it ships Sep 26 12:17:51 anyway, it won't ship with maemo Sep 26 12:18:41 there are some closed blobs that you need to obtain by providing valid N900 IMEI and we probably can't redistribute them with different device Sep 26 12:18:53 Ahh looks like I was mistaken, I thought Neo900 will only be shipped when Fremantle is ported across. Sep 26 12:19:02 but anyone will be free to download and install it by themselves, so that shouldn't be a big problem Sep 26 12:19:27 psycho_oreos: nope, those are two related, but independent projects Sep 26 12:19:54 dos1, I guess I stand corrected. :) Sep 26 12:19:55 Neo900 hw will be designed to make Fremantle porting easier, but it doesn't have to wait for it to be finished Sep 26 12:20:10 after all, you may buy Neo900 while not being interested in Maemo at all Sep 26 12:20:44 I guess in a way to also entice other openmoko users/owners? :) Sep 26 12:21:13 yup Sep 26 12:21:18 Neo900 is a general purpose mobile platform Sep 26 12:21:24 just like GTA04 Sep 26 12:21:35 what do I fill in the tax forms? :) Sep 26 12:21:46 [x] engineering sample Sep 26 12:22:02 jon_y: sorry, I have no idea about all this tax stuff Sep 26 12:22:21 I'm kind of worried customs might seize the device Sep 26 12:22:31 I'm from EU, so it won't be a big problem for me to order it from Germany Sep 26 12:22:33 if I do buy one Sep 26 12:22:45 I hope there'll be some resellers outside of EU to make all this stuff easier Sep 26 12:22:49 yeah, I'm not in EU Sep 26 12:23:01 as it was with Openmoko Sep 26 12:23:56 I guess if one's local customs seizes the product, they would probably ask you to briefly describe your purposes, etc. Sep 26 12:24:32 Chances are, it's unlikely that's ever going to happen unless you bought multiple of the same units and they're all under one name, one address, etc. Sep 26 12:24:58 probably Sep 26 12:25:08 Of course customs are usually country/culture specific but I guess most sane ones wouldn't care much. Sep 26 12:26:47 * psycho_oreos recalls of the case with MohammadAG when the N950 (yes a N950) was lost in transit. Sep 26 12:27:17 what happened? Sep 26 12:28:55 I can't quite remember the whole story but because MohammadAG was shortlisted as one of the many Qt developers to develop programs for the upcoming n9 (at the time). nokia supposedly sent out N950 to all the shortlisted applicants and emailed them the tracking number for each. MohammadAG tracked his but apparently the status kept showing that it was in transit or something. Sep 26 12:30:08 It was about a month before the whole case on waiting was dropped, the conclusion was simply that it was "lost in transit". It could be stolen or confiscated without permission. Sep 26 12:30:46 it was lost forever? Sep 26 12:31:09 I think it was yeah, basically forever. Sep 26 12:31:16 :( Sep 26 12:32:26 That story by now is way more than a year old, virtually one and a half years ago. Sep 26 12:35:07 I haven't been keeping in tab on the story fully at the time, I guess MohammadAG may have sourced another N950 elsewhere or from nokia again (I think). Though whoever stole that N950 is well.. Sep 26 13:05:50 Hmm.. that also reminds me. dos1, if say Neo900 gets produced and supposedly it would be shipped worldwide (of course after you get people paying for it). Would you also be able add extra requirements? say for example if one were to somehow bypass customs and/or to prevent the device being stolen whilst in transit. Can you like declare that the device was sent as a broken device and have no firmware flashed? Sep 26 13:06:28 psycho_oreos: that might be a bit risky to Goldelico Sep 26 13:07:04 dos1, *nods* just thinking of it hypothetically. Sep 26 13:07:29 I mean like if a customer wants it to be like that for instance. Sep 26 13:10:31 * psycho_oreos would honestly hate to order something that is expensive and to not have it in his own hands because of some lowlife person that has to go about their own ways of making lives of others miserable. Sep 26 14:37:00 we (GolDeliCo) willl send a humble 200 devices. We sure have enough time and love to handle each case very individually Sep 26 14:38:31 I recall we managed to send a few devices to Belarus and to Russia, was real fun Sep 26 14:39:09 basically in the end they were "smuggled" iirc Sep 26 14:40:57 The N900 to PaulFertser for hostmode-kernel (Moskow) was really GREAT fun¡ Sep 26 14:41:26 not even Nokia was able to send to a private addr in Moskow, only to corporate addr Sep 26 14:41:47 and then the custums asked for some 200 bucks "processing fee" still Sep 26 14:44:04 Sending N900 to Russia? o.O is that why there's all those nice Russian sites giving us maemo goodies? :D $200 bucks? hopefully not 200 euros. Sep 26 14:44:06 in the end Paul got a device from RST38h who happens to live in Moskow as well and had one devel device he could pass on, which he imported from a maemo convention he visited, in Finnland Sep 26 14:44:47 Cool I never knew PaulFertzer was based in Russia. Sep 26 14:44:58 or somesuch went the tale Sep 26 14:48:33 yep, Paul lives in Moskow Sep 26 14:50:34 Damn haha the Russians are crazy. :D Sep 26 14:50:53 Paul will agree wholeheartedly Sep 26 14:51:56 he told me a lot of weird stories about his pupils in the EE/CS classes he held Sep 26 14:52:11 s/pupils/students/ Sep 26 14:52:12 DocScrutinizer05 meant: he told me a lot of weird stories about his students in the EE/CS classes he held Sep 26 14:53:05 :o Sep 26 14:53:44 Sounds like he's an university professor or something. Sep 26 14:54:22 dunno if university or some other educational entity Sep 26 14:55:09 *nods* Sep 26 14:55:10 and he's no professor afaik Sep 26 14:55:40 Ahh but still a lecturer whom seems to also be interested in wireless technologies. Sep 26 14:56:00 Well wireless, embedded and what have you. Sep 26 14:56:10 not that it makes any difference, particularly not in Russia - there the professors starve just like the beggars Sep 26 14:57:05 o.O Sep 26 14:58:37 many of the professors had to start a job as taxidriver in the old days when glasnost etc kicked in, iirc Sep 26 14:58:51 to make a living Sep 26 14:59:23 while Moskow is the most expensive town on earth, I heard Sep 26 14:59:33 wird Sep 26 14:59:38 weird even Sep 26 15:00:37 I can't even imagine how life in Moskow might be Sep 26 15:00:42 Yeah I'm not quite sure how their systems run, but that sounds pretty bad. Sep 26 15:02:36 * psycho_oreos has the song: "Rammstein - Moskau" playing in his head. Sep 26 15:07:25 DocScrutinizer05: we've got some refferals on neo900.org from boards.4chan.org :D Sep 26 15:08:29 can you tell which board? :) Sep 26 15:09:00 lemme check server logs Sep 26 15:10:17 dos1: nice Sep 26 15:12:07 on a sidenote: some of you still might recall (or even experience every day) the annoying bug in mce that switches off the indicator LED when you lock the device in bright daylight Sep 26 15:13:44 * psycho_oreos seems to recall it happening. Sep 26 15:14:00 https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36955756 Sep 26 15:15:29 and https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36878654 Sep 26 15:15:46 threads from 4chan's /g/ with neo900 mentions Sep 26 15:16:15 in /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so the must be a struct {int a[5][2]; int brightness[6]} Sep 26 15:16:20 https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36860382 Sep 26 15:17:12 with values { { { 32, 64 } , { 100, 1000 } , { -1, -1 } , { -1, -1 } , { -1, -1 } , }, { 5, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0 } } Sep 26 15:17:46 change the 5, 5, 0, 0 to 5, 5, 5, 0 and this bug should be gone Sep 26 15:20:53 Thanks, I'm going to try and note that down. My N900s aren't working properly now. :/ You should post that in a thread or something. :D Sep 26 15:21:15 first 5 is brightness of LED under 32lux, 2nd between 32 and 64 lux, the third for between 100 and 1000lux, and you probably want to change the 4th digit "0" also to "5" for ALS >1000lux Sep 26 15:21:29 so Sep 26 15:21:37 change the 5, 5, 0, 0 to 5, 5, 5, 5 and this bug should be gone Sep 26 16:16:39 hi. i have a n900 and i'd like to play a stream coming from mpd... Sep 26 16:16:46 ... what should i install on the n900? Sep 26 16:17:53 the browser tells me that it's an ogg file and offers me to download it. Sep 26 16:18:16 the media player tells me that the format is not supported Sep 26 16:18:35 You need something like extradecoders-support for instance. Sep 26 16:19:28 thanks! ... installing it... Sep 26 16:19:46 downloading failed :-( Sep 26 16:21:17 There's a reason why, look for it. It might be in the logs. Sep 26 16:23:31 trying to install from the web... Sep 26 16:24:54 "download failed" is not a error report we could help with. Please try to follow psycho_oreos' recommendation and get detals from logs on *why* it failed Sep 26 16:26:43 i'll have a look at the logs if necessary... Sep 26 16:26:51 rebooting right now... Sep 26 16:26:58 Well.. it is necessary. Sep 26 16:27:27 well, i've installed through the web... i hope that it has worked that way... Sep 26 16:28:04 ogg-support - Ogg/Vorbis/Flac support for n900 Sep 26 16:28:16 it didn't work :-() Sep 26 16:29:05 uninstalling Sep 26 16:30:39 IroN900:~# apt-cache policy ogg-support Sep 26 16:30:41 ogg-support: Sep 26 16:30:42 Installed: 1.1.1 Sep 26 16:30:44 Candidate: 1.1.1 Sep 26 16:30:45 Version table: Sep 26 16:30:47 *** 1.1.1 0 Sep 26 16:30:48 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Sep 26 16:30:50 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Sep 26 16:30:51 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status Sep 26 16:30:53 1.1 0 Sep 26 16:30:54 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Sep 26 16:30:56 1.0.8 0 Sep 26 16:30:57 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Sep 26 16:30:59 1.0.7~rc1 0 Sep 26 16:31:00 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Sep 26 16:31:02 1.0.5 0 Sep 26 16:31:03 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Sep 26 16:31:05 1.0.3 0 Sep 26 16:31:06 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Sep 26 16:31:08 IroN900:~# Sep 26 16:31:09 dang Sep 26 16:31:11 why did pastebin fail? sorry! Sep 26 16:33:19 o.O I think there's pastebinit in the maemo.org repository. You can pipe the output of that into pastebinit in the future. :) Sep 26 16:33:37 yeah sure Sep 26 16:33:47 I prefer my desktop means though Sep 26 16:33:54 Er or maybe not.. awhile ago I had to get it from ubuntu repository.. but I can't remember now anymore. Sep 26 16:34:03 *nods* Sep 26 16:34:14 mak in xterm, click the pastebin applet Sep 26 16:35:12 pastebinit braks every 4 months and you need to get the new one from random locations in internet and make the scriptie executable on device Sep 26 16:35:23 breaks, even Sep 26 16:36:26 there's even | netcat paste.dyndns.org 1234, but that stopped working recently as well Sep 26 16:36:45 <_d0t> hi. Is anyone using a recent kernel on n900? I'm trying to boot 3.10, but it fails at the beginning. Sep 26 16:36:46 mmm i think i will try to get mpd to stream mp3... Sep 26 16:36:53 True but it somewhat is worth it imo. Somewhat handy than worrying about mishaps, I guess to each their own. :) Sep 26 16:36:56 it's probably easier. Sep 26 16:37:16 *sigh* Sep 26 16:37:33 a_l_e, it might even be more easier if you could do it through something like shoutcast iinm. Sep 26 16:37:57 Aye, I'm not going to rub it in. Just saying lol. Sep 26 16:39:03 3.10? Sep 26 16:39:19 Wait.. kernel 3.10? what the.. are you nuts? Sep 26 16:39:34 streaming of mp3 is actually not supported in standard maemo core apps afaik Sep 26 16:39:52 <_d0t> psycho_oreos: not particularly. Sep 26 16:40:29 thanks! Sep 26 16:40:32 booting 3.x kernels on N900 is all easypeasy Sep 26 16:40:48 just it won't work togeher with fremantle Sep 26 16:40:50 no, it does not work :-( Sep 26 16:41:24 _d0t, afaik kernel 3.x is in development and it's mainly those whom are daring enough to run it. There's probably less than a handful of developers working on 3.x kernel for fremantle. Sep 26 16:41:31 <_d0t> i dont care about fremantle. i have gentoo installed there. i just need a working kernel config, because rx51_defconfig doesnt seem to boot. Sep 26 16:41:46 it plays two notes and then it skips to the next radio station. Sep 26 16:42:32 Ahh well I'd say it might be best to ask the current power-kernel maintainer directly. Though no guarantees. Sep 26 16:42:33 well, maybe ask in gentoo then? Sep 26 16:43:04 <_d0t> huh... gentoo doesnt have anything to do with the kernel, does it? Sep 26 16:43:27 <_d0t> I thought power-kernel is still at 2.6.28 version. Sep 26 16:43:27 * psycho_oreos wonders how many gentoo developers left to continually maintain their build on maemo.. probably less than a handful as well. Sep 26 16:43:35 how does #maemo have to do anything with 3-x kernels and defconfig? Sep 26 16:43:55 <_d0t> #maemo has everything to do with n900 :) Sep 26 16:44:29 http://gitorious.org/linux-n900 Sep 26 16:44:32 Yeah, though the current maintainer may still have knowledge of (or maybe maybe of) 3.x Sep 26 16:44:44 use kernel from n900 branch Sep 26 16:44:46 <_d0t> Pali: yeah, thats what i'm using Sep 26 16:45:10 ok, on android it seems to work better with mp3. Sep 26 16:45:11 <_d0t> Pali: you are one of the active developers there, right? Sep 26 16:45:26 yes Sep 26 16:45:27 _d0t: nope, #maemo is about maemo Sep 26 16:45:45 default rx51_defconfig booting from ubifs rootfs mtd Sep 26 16:45:55 ok, i have to leave now... i'll have to try again at some later time... Sep 26 16:46:13 a_l_e, does mpd support shoutcast stream? if so, that may not need much more work on the N900 itself. You can probably even continue to use that same osso-mediaplayer. Sep 26 16:46:41 <_d0t> Pali: trying it now. Its stuck after switching to colour buffer device. Sep 26 16:47:10 Under osso-mediaplayer, there's a thing called internet radio. Supposedly if you can get your mpd to output in a format that osso-mediaplayer can support it should work. Sep 26 16:48:04 <_d0t> Pali: then i guess the watchdog kicks in and reboots the device. Sep 26 16:48:23 mhm, so what? Sep 26 16:48:51 still #maemo? Sep 26 16:48:55 yo need to compile watchdog drivers into zimage Sep 26 16:48:57 mmm. psycho_oreos i can stream to an icecast2 server... Sep 26 16:49:01 =Y Sep 26 16:49:07 but i don't think that is is useful. Sep 26 16:49:49 however: thanks for your help Sep 26 16:49:51 a_l_e, I'm not particularly sure what format are those internet radio broadcast in. Though I'd say I've given you some pointers in which you can then research up if you're interested. Sep 26 16:49:52 and the wd needs support from userland, I'd guess Sep 26 16:50:10 no, you can turn watchdog off Sep 26 16:50:13 and userland != maemo, aiui Sep 26 16:50:14 yep, you gave several good hints! Sep 26 16:50:15 thanks! Sep 26 16:50:24 i'm quitting, so the hints do not scroll down! Sep 26 16:50:28 <_d0t> Pali: CONFIG_TWL4030_WATCHDOG=m this is from the defconfig. I suppose this might be the source of the issue. Sep 26 16:50:29 and when driver load, it disable watchdogs automatically Sep 26 16:50:32 have a nice evening, if it's evening at your place! Sep 26 16:50:59 you need to change it from =M to =Y Sep 26 16:51:04 <_d0t> ok Sep 26 16:51:19 only because userland doesn't load the wd module Sep 26 16:51:40 yes, userland maybe not load it Sep 26 16:52:11 but if userland is broken, then you have no way to read why Sep 26 16:52:19 so again. isn't this a question for #gentoo then? Sep 26 16:52:42 <_d0t> DocScrutinizer05: this has nothing to do with gentoo or the userspace at all. Sep 26 16:52:51 uhuh Sep 26 16:53:14 [2013-09-26 18:51:19] only because userland doesn't load the wd module Sep 26 16:53:15 [2013-09-26 18:51:40] yes, userland maybe not load it Sep 26 16:53:34 userland=maemo? NO userland= gentoo Sep 26 16:53:35 <_d0t> DocScrutinizer05: it didnt get to the userspace Sep 26 16:53:57 <_d0t> Pali: thanks, that solved the problem. Sep 26 16:54:03 sure Sep 26 16:54:08 but not maemo related Sep 26 16:55:02 <_d0t> DocScrutinizer05: still I had much better chances of finding someone who works on n900 support in the recent kernels here than on #gentoo or some other channel. Stop whining. Sep 26 16:56:10 I'm just making my point that you were wrong to assume #maemo was the right channel for asking about problems with 3.x kernel under gentoo Sep 26 16:56:50 <_d0t> DocScrutinizer05: do you really think that the distribution of chose has something to do with the kernel unable to boot? Sep 26 16:57:19 yes, obviously. Shall I paste a copy of the copy of pali's and my post, again? Sep 26 16:57:48 <_d0t> DocScrutinizer05: you should read my post, again. Sep 26 16:58:09 your distro doesn't handle watchdog so the kernel driver module doesn't get loaded thus you need to mess with kernel defconfig Sep 26 16:58:39 <_d0t> no Sep 26 16:58:56 evidently same 3.x kernel boots for pali and others just fine Sep 26 16:59:02 <_d0t> again, no Sep 26 16:59:08 MEH! Sep 26 16:59:36 <_d0t> cool, huh? You're wrong twice Sep 26 16:59:43 /changenic _d0t _Not Sep 26 17:00:19 no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Sep 26 17:00:28 cool, eh= you been wrong 11 tinmes Sep 26 17:02:00 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders how long since last /kick - weird strange desires growing Sep 26 17:02:17 <_d0t> are you threatening me? Sep 26 17:04:44 are you trolling the channel? Sep 26 17:05:15 <_d0t> why do you answer with a question? Sep 26 17:05:24 why do you? Sep 26 17:05:38 <_d0t> are you a jew? Sep 26 17:05:47 first infracton points towards kick for trolling Sep 26 17:06:08 <_d0t> are you afraid that i might be trolling you? Sep 26 17:06:19 second and last warning Sep 26 17:06:55 <_d0t> why do you keep warning me? Are you trolling me? Sep 26 17:18:05 hey Sep 26 17:18:23 is anyone alive? Sep 26 17:18:30 no Sep 26 17:18:45 no intelligent life down here Sep 26 17:18:53 so bean me up, Scotty Sep 26 17:18:59 beam* even Sep 26 17:19:21 ;-) Sep 26 17:19:32 Meta-Questions suck. Sep 26 17:19:39 ~ask Sep 26 17:19:40 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Sep 26 17:21:40 i had power-kernel and few days ago i installed multiboot via apt and forgot about it. today i had to reboot my n900 and it showed me multiboot menu with two items but when i select any it reboots Sep 26 17:21:58 what's next? Sep 26 17:22:17 ~maemo-multiboot Sep 26 17:22:17 [maemo-multiboot] deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED Sep 26 17:22:53 is there any other solutions? Sep 26 17:23:07 like adding proper kernel? Sep 26 17:23:30 hmm, probably you could try to flash the right KP-kernel, via flasher with --flash-kernel-only Sep 26 17:23:56 or use rescueOS to clean up the mess multiboot caused on your rootfs Sep 26 17:24:02 ~rescueos Sep 26 17:24:02 rescueos is probably http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ Sep 26 17:24:50 yes, i have tried rescueos already, but where i can find the kernel? Sep 26 17:25:41 I guess you'll need the KP52(?) image you used last. there are images available somehwhere - pali could help out with a pointer Sep 26 17:26:01 stock kernel otoh is inside fiasco image aka COMBINED Sep 26 17:26:09 in extras-devel in -bootimg packages Sep 26 17:26:21 thanks Pali Sep 26 17:26:25 you need to unpack them from deb package Sep 26 17:26:33 zImage-2.6.28.10-power52 < is that the one? Sep 26 17:26:52 it must be without extension Sep 26 17:26:58 then yes Sep 26 17:27:11 ok, will try now Sep 26 17:27:48 I installed u-boot-flasher and reinstalled kernel-power, now it boots _just_ kernel-power and I no longer have the Option to boot the original Kernel or Nitdroid like with multiboot (original is not a Problem, I need _just_ kernel-power, but how can I choose between Power and Nitdroid again? Will just reinstalling Nitdroid get me back a Menu at boot Time?) Sep 26 17:28:30 And does U-Boot have the same Logic - boot with pulled out Keyboard shows Menu? Sep 26 17:28:36 reinstall u-boot-flasher Sep 26 17:28:51 yes Sep 26 17:28:53 k Sep 26 17:28:58 DocScrutinizer05: i can help with a pointer too! 0x0c003b72 Sep 26 17:29:16 well Sep 26 17:29:21 (void *)0x0c003b72 Sep 26 17:30:43 ...it's a joke Sep 26 17:30:47 acknowledge it, dammit! Sep 26 17:31:04 for KP under uboot you can't use the standard KP package since uboot is mutually exclusive with KP and stock kernel Sep 26 17:31:17