**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 03 02:59:58 2013 Oct 03 03:53:41 hm Oct 03 03:54:02 dont know why but pan doesnt seem to agree with connecting to non-standard ports Oct 03 03:54:05 wth Oct 03 03:54:13 figured it was just straight masqing Oct 03 03:54:20 masqerading Oct 03 03:54:33 :-/ Oct 03 03:56:28 lame stuff Oct 03 07:52:05 hi is the dev mobo for neo900 the gta04 ? Oct 03 07:53:35 I personally somewhat doubt it, it maybe based on it however. Why don't you ask these questions in the tmo thread? Oct 03 07:54:52 psycho_oreos, afraid to be involved :) Oct 03 07:55:21 i just wonder if they plan to provide some mobo then start porting Oct 03 07:55:23 troulouliou_dev, afraid? o.O it's not like they will be dragging people into development. Oct 03 07:55:36 psycho_oreos, ill be myself :) Oct 03 07:56:27 The hardware work is completely independent of software. If Neo900 is ready to be released/shipped and the fptf isn't ready still, the hardware will still get shipped nonetheless to their buyers. Oct 03 07:58:50 *shrug*, there are plenty of "fans" but only very few of them actually put forth into being involved. I'm certain if one has queries, it's not like the team behind it will start forcing you to join them. Oct 03 08:01:06 Anyway, it's up to you. If you were patient enough, you might even be able to get proper and direct responses rather than "maybe", "possible", "could be" from someone who is sort of spectating on the side. :) Oct 03 08:02:13 psycho_oreos, i was just asking cause the the GTA04 is expensive and it is required to wait for 200 orders for them to start shipping Oct 03 08:02:24 and if i m not wrong it happens only once :) Oct 03 08:03:13 I can imagine it's only because of a niche market that it's targeting at. Though Neo900 maybe different imo as it is sort of an extension to N900 and is also living off N900's fame. Oct 03 08:04:39 I also recall openpandora was quite similar too, pre-orders only until they pick up a certain amount before they start actual manufacture. Oct 03 08:20:41 will see i guess this project is for late 2014/2015 Oct 03 10:09:01 * jonwil is so bored :( Oct 03 10:11:16 build a neo900 Oct 03 10:11:42 * jonwil doesn't have the parts or tools to do that :P Oct 03 10:16:24 any tips where i can finda screen replaceent for my N900 ; mine is too scratched with some brightness issue in some area Oct 03 10:30:18 troulouliou_dev: have you checked ebay? Oct 03 10:31:09 x29a, nothing Oct 03 10:31:17 where are you located? Oct 03 10:31:22 even amazon.com has them Oct 03 11:14:33 x29a, africa Oct 03 13:22:24 autobuilder broken again :( Oct 03 14:18:53 hi all! wanted to ask if there are any ways to skip next track using volume rocker while screen is locked? Oct 03 14:23:56 I'm pretty sure there's an app for that Oct 03 14:26:49 is it? found only one for Meego ,N9 Oct 03 14:26:49 shortcutd Oct 03 14:28:06 great stuff, will try this one Oct 03 14:28:39 it is, since ~4 years agp I suggested to augment it so that with short press you skip and long press still adjusts volume Oct 03 14:29:03 s/p/o/ Oct 03 14:29:03 DocScrutinizer05 meant: it is, since ~4 years ago I suggested to augment it so that with short press you skip and long press still adjusts volume Oct 03 14:32:00 sounds promising, my lumia 925 has so imperfect headphone socket, just sent that to service. If it's died within 2 months of usage and start missing signal - I'd pull out of shelf my good old n900 in order to have a painless listening experience Oct 03 14:33:27 I hope you stored it with battery removed Oct 03 14:33:59 nope 0_o Oct 03 14:34:09 any possible problems if not? Oct 03 14:34:11 fool Oct 03 14:34:37 I must admit it Oct 03 14:34:49 sure, battery dies, incinerates, and burns down your house Oct 03 14:35:21 just got property insurance, nice idea Oct 03 14:36:35 actually just yesterday in ZV they reported about pedelec batteries - after storing them away for 6 years - suddenly incinerated Oct 03 14:36:50 s/z/T/ Oct 03 14:36:56 s/Z/T/ Oct 03 14:36:56 DocScrutinizer05 meant: actually just yesterday in TV they reported about pedelec batteries - after storing them away for 6 years - suddenly incinerated Oct 03 14:38:40 in every battery warning paper it's written "do not discharge to <2.0V (value may vary slightly) or venting and fire may happen) Oct 03 14:38:46 " Oct 03 14:39:34 now batteries discharge by self-discharge, but for sure they discharge way faster when inserted to device Oct 03 14:40:39 and definitely cells die when deep-discharged, even when usually no fire or explosion Oct 03 14:41:24 thus, NEVER store away a device with battery inserted! Oct 03 14:41:28 ~batteryfaq Oct 03 14:41:29 [batteryfaq] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers Oct 03 14:41:44 good to know. I'm using that time to time looking for the new WEP spots around if any - fortunately no drain yet Oct 03 14:42:24 N900 seems "safe" to store with battery inserted for 4 weeks Oct 03 14:42:49 but I wouldn't rely on it Oct 03 14:43:25 in regards to battery drain - had some Chinese phone watches and these were diying within 2 weekes without charging. Oct 03 14:43:35 several subsystems are not powered down hard when CPU goes to power-down state: LEDs, Modem, a few others Oct 03 14:44:56 so proper shutdown is mandatory, otherwise battery drain may be way higher than usual, while device _looks_ like off Oct 03 14:45:16 useful trick Oct 03 14:45:30 removing battery is the trick Oct 03 14:46:07 the battery denied to charging within device once. Just cutted old Nokia charger to and keeping right polar connected wires to battery contact plates. Oct 03 14:46:13 for 2 mins Oct 03 14:46:15 even removing for 30s and then inserting again should result in a known-good powerdown state Oct 03 14:46:51 deepaero: battery never refuses to charge in N900 Oct 03 14:47:08 it was about Chinese smart watches Oct 03 14:47:11 ~flatbatrecover Oct 03 14:47:11 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover Oct 03 14:48:45 infobot: no, flatbatrecover is Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when rootfs is OK (no bootloop)!. Oct 03 14:48:45 DocScrutinizer05: okay Oct 03 14:48:50 ~flatbatrecover Oct 03 14:48:50 rumour has it, flatbatrecover is Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when rootfs is OK (no bootloop)!. Oct 03 14:49:31 ~listkeys bootloop Oct 03 14:49:33 Factoid search of 'bootloop' by key returned no results. Oct 03 14:52:17 ~#maemo bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. Oct 03 14:52:17 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Oct 03 14:52:50 infobot: no, flatbatrecover is Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when rootfs is OK (no ~bootloop)!. Oct 03 14:52:50 DocScrutinizer05: okay Oct 03 14:53:19 ~listkeys rootfs Oct 03 14:53:21 Factoid search of 'rootfs' by key (1): rootfs. Oct 03 14:53:29 ~rootfs Oct 03 14:53:29 [rootfs] mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw Oct 03 14:53:45 ~forget rootfs Oct 03 14:53:46 i forgot rootfs, DocScrutinizer05 Oct 03 14:54:50 ~listkeys rootfs Oct 03 14:54:52 Factoid search of 'rootfs' by key (1): rootfs #DEL#. Oct 03 14:58:48 ~#maemo rootfs is rootfs: the content of the storage volume mounted under /, on NAND mtd5 partition. Also called "the system", since it's all the files forming the linux core system (except the kernel itself). Reflash rootfs from COMBINED (see ~flashing). Also see ~bootloop Oct 03 14:58:48 DocScrutinizer05: okay Oct 03 15:02:19 infobot: no, flatbatrecover is Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs is OK (no ~bootloop)!. Oct 03 15:02:19 DocScrutinizer05: okay Oct 03 15:03:08 infobot: no, flatbatrecover is Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs is OK (no ~bootloop)!. Oct 03 15:03:08 DocScrutinizer05: okay Oct 03 15:03:20 ~flatbatrecover Oct 03 15:03:20 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs is OK (no ~bootloop)!. Oct 03 15:03:30 ~rootfs Oct 03 15:03:31 rootfs: the content of the storage volume mounted under /, on NAND mtd5 partition. Also called "the system", since it's all the files forming the linux core system (except the kernel itself). Reflash rootfs from COMBINED (see ~flashing). Also see ~bootloop Oct 03 15:03:59 ~bootloop Oct 03 15:04:00 from memory, bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. Oct 03 15:06:02 infobot: no, #maemo bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. Oct 03 15:06:02 okay, DocScrutinizer05 Oct 03 15:11:05 DocScrutinizer05: Does either the GTA04 or the Neo900 have external RGB video output capable of driving an external display? I want my handheld/pocket computer to have VGA output capable of driving an external display. Oct 03 15:12:55 brolin_empey: sorry, no RGB signal available on OMAP3 standard design Oct 03 15:13:51 * brolin_empey wants the ability to drive an external CRT display, not only a flat-panel/fixed-pixel display. Oct 03 15:13:56 the composite video signal is mixed internally in OMAP3 Oct 03 15:16:15 the other video signals are digital Oct 03 15:18:22 is the only video output going to be composite? Oct 03 15:19:03 that's what I just said Oct 03 15:19:20 you also said that the other video signals are digital Oct 03 15:19:24 i like digital Oct 03 15:19:29 numbers are cool Oct 03 15:19:32 Yes, I know I can drive both a CRT display and a flat-panel/fixed-pixel display with the external composite video output but I meant I want external analog RGB video output, such as VGA, so I can drive an external CRT display with an analog RGB video input, such as VGA. Oct 03 15:19:45 can we get digital video somewhere other than the screen? Oct 03 15:20:55 brolin_empey: I just explained to you that such RGB signal is not available on OMAP standard design, and we won't add a RGB converter circuit and a VGA connector Oct 03 15:21:14 haha, a full-size VGA connector would be hilarious though Oct 03 15:21:43 bonus points if you also add sockets for the screws Oct 03 15:22:05 kerio: no, LCD is the only accessable digital video bus Oct 03 15:22:11 shame Oct 03 15:22:27 ...would there be some way to tap into that to output to, say, dvi? Oct 03 15:22:47 theoretically, at least Oct 03 15:23:01 or is it something specific to the type of screen used in the n900? Oct 03 15:23:06 see beagleboard HDMI discussion and beagleboard circuit diagram Oct 03 15:23:53 you need to route the signal to some converter and thus the LCD is black while you do Oct 03 15:24:05 you need a muxer chip to do that Oct 03 15:24:18 see Oct 03 15:24:20 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 Oct 03 15:24:33 search for muxer Oct 03 15:25:42 for your convenience: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1375110&highlight=muxer#post1375110 Oct 03 15:30:01 kerio: for sure you can disassemble the screen half, unplug the LCD and plug in a RGB or HDMI or whatever-yiu-like converter instead Oct 03 15:57:18 Sc0rpius: ping Oct 03 16:07:47 freemangordon, pong Oct 03 16:08:41 Sc0rpius: please reupload yaparri to autobuilder again, builder was down for the last ~24 hours Oct 03 16:08:49 so your upload got lost Oct 03 16:11:22 yeah I've heard it was in maintenance Oct 03 16:13:24 [general notice] autobuilder resumed. Please don't forget to always BUMP YOUR VERSION even when re-uploading a package that failed to build Oct 03 16:14:33 done Oct 03 16:14:36 let's see what happens. Oct 03 16:14:40 thanks Oct 03 16:14:46 bumping version never hurts. Not doing so sometimes causes problems that block autobuilder or even worse trouble Oct 03 16:16:00 [2013-10-03 16:15:02] Processing package yappari 1.1.41. Uploader: naikel, builder: builder1 Oct 03 16:16:00 [2013-10-03 16:15:07] Building yappari 1.1.41 for target 'maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel' Oct 03 16:17:33 http://wstaw.org/m/2013/10/03/plasma-desktopoc3743.png Oct 03 16:18:47 and with usual delay even ganglia show "green" on builder Oct 03 16:19:57 yep, it seems to be just fine, it was a false alarm IMO Oct 03 16:20:06 :nod: Oct 03 16:20:22 caused by lack of proper diagnostic means Oct 03 16:20:53 DocScrutinizer05: caused by me refusing to touch builder yesterday :D Oct 03 16:21:06 isn't that the same Oct 03 16:21:17 well... ok :) Oct 03 16:22:03 after all when there was a proper diagnostic website showing state of builder for every user, no flase alarm ever had come up Oct 03 16:22:44 Sc0rpius: how big is yappari?!? it is still building on 4 cores!!! Oct 03 16:23:11 when I had such page (or other means to check what's going on with builder), I would have touched or not touched builder yesterday, instead of simply pausing it Oct 03 16:23:33 well it doesn't take a lot of time to build, but it has a lot of dependencies, and that would make the builder take a while Oct 03 16:23:48 DocScrutinizer05: you paused it because the maintainer told you to do so ;) Oct 03 16:24:09 anyway, I'm out (semi) Oct 03 16:25:01 I paused it because luser been asking me to do so and I couldn't find my BOFH hat ;-P Oct 03 16:30:35 yappari 1.1.41 OK Oct 03 16:30:56 it "just" took 14 minutes :P Oct 03 16:31:05 it builds in second in my desktop. Oct 03 16:31:08 seconds Oct 03 16:37:34 Sc0rpius: don't brag :v Oct 03 16:38:28 hi, just curious, but I was going to, partially as a test, partially because it feels more clean that way, quickly translate the orientation lock application in SSU. Given how it's just 3 strings, it seems fairly simple to do even though I haven't used .po(t) files before. Is the strings in that .po vs the template .pot supposed to be have a mismatch...? Oct 03 16:39:16 what I did was copying the .pot to sv_SE.po, but when comparing other .po files already, they seem to use a completely different set of strings Oct 03 16:45:12 MohammadAG: yo, is .pot source strings supposed to be completely different from source strings in the resulting .po files in the orientation-lock cssu application? Oct 03 17:04:41 Hi DocScrutinizer05 Oct 03 17:04:49 hi Oct 03 17:04:59 re the Source symlink; I can't find any such thing... No idea if it existed pre-migration Oct 03 17:06:00 that's the point. i guess our 2backup" lacked those symlinks Oct 03 17:06:22 unless the source is: http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/hathor/src/ Oct 03 17:06:38 thus only way we get to know about them missing is by users complaining Oct 03 17:07:22 true Oct 03 17:09:51 there is no ernest75 around so i can't ascertain with him if the above url is what he is looking for :( Oct 03 17:10:43 yeah, a pity Oct 03 17:11:27 apologies for the reduced online activity; i have a ton going on in RL hence can't find the time to be available as much Oct 03 17:12:18 rm -rf /rl Oct 03 17:12:36 haha Oct 03 17:12:55 np Oct 03 17:13:49 error: /rl: not found Oct 03 17:14:12 haha doc you never had one in the first place so no use trying it out :D Oct 03 17:16:29 yeah, my problem rather are bad blocks on medium Oct 03 17:16:41 hehe Oct 03 17:18:13 speaking of bad blocks... Oct 03 17:18:31 is there a way to analyze the eMMC of the N900 without actually using up a write cycle or two like badblocks does? Oct 03 17:18:38 like, is there a tool to query e.g. number of remaining spare blocks Oct 03 17:19:13 because, I suspect bad blocks on mine... had on-boot fsck delete files multiple times, after clean shutdown Oct 03 17:19:25 and also it complained about differing FATs Oct 03 17:20:03 isn't this info somewhere in proc or am I confused? Oct 03 17:20:35 that is what I want to know Oct 03 17:20:45 i.e. where such a proc/sysfs node might be Oct 03 17:21:02 I'd be surprised, so I didn't look there yet - as with hard drives you need smartctl too Oct 03 17:21:36 I'm quite convinced I got this info for NAND once from proc, Oct 03 17:21:51 maybe I find it again... Oct 03 17:23:01 /sys/class/ubi/ubi0 Oct 03 17:23:23 isn't emmc though Oct 03 17:24:28 ubi0? Oct 03 17:24:32 right, I was looking for mmc0 Oct 03 17:24:39 didn't see anything that hints to health status Oct 03 17:24:46 did find the cover switch info in mmc1 though :P Oct 03 17:25:45 In general there's no way to get such info from emmc Oct 03 17:25:49 (or sd) Oct 03 17:26:02 yes, I also know no such tool for USB SD card readers Oct 03 17:26:24 was just hoping there might be a N900 specific way Oct 03 17:26:37 And in my experience, a badblocks run doesn't necessarily catch bad blocks, as the bad block might sit in the spare/free pool for an unknown amount of cycles Oct 03 17:26:50 that too, but... Oct 03 17:27:02 one CAN hope that the wear levelling would know about the bad blocks and not use them again Oct 03 17:27:12 so you should only ever "repeatedly" hit bad blocks if all spare blocks are used up Oct 03 17:27:17 and then badblocks SHOULD be able to find them Oct 03 17:27:48 of course, badblocks' testing method for this is probably wrong Oct 03 17:28:00 to really find them, you probably need to fill ALL disk with a pattern, and then read it all and verify Oct 03 17:28:05 and not do it in small chunks like badblocks does Oct 03 17:28:12 I had a SD card once that was unaware of the bad blocks on it Oct 03 17:28:15 more like what memtest86 does :P Oct 03 17:28:38 they vanished, and then reappeared in a different place, during repeated badblocks -w runs Oct 03 17:28:51 yes, this is also why badblocks fails :P Oct 03 17:28:57 you can hit a single bad block many times Oct 03 17:28:59 or not at all Oct 03 17:29:04 due to wear levelling Oct 03 17:29:29 if badblocks wrote once then verified once, at least this would preclude hitting the same bad block many times Oct 03 17:29:53 haha, THIS is what dmcrypt is for ;) Oct 03 17:29:58 encrypt disk, fill with zeros, verify zeros Oct 03 17:30:27 a hardware bug is unlikely to hit AES "just right" Oct 03 17:30:52 but kidding, a simple per block CRC would do as well Oct 03 17:37:01 Modern good SD have portions of the flash running as SLC, and caches stuff there before flushing to main MLC or TLC storage area, so a simple write followed by read verify only checls if slc cache is working :P Oct 03 17:42:56 The Port field is grey/disabled in the set smtp port field. Oct 03 17:43:12 How can I set the outgoing smtp port? Oct 03 17:48:58 Your assistance came too late; it already works. Oct 03 18:31:33 divVerent: on eMMC the controller in card does that. No known-to-me way to read out spare blocks available, nor any other of the internal management data Oct 03 18:32:03 ooh, ShadowJK beats me Oct 03 19:15:26 ShadowJK: so, how do we "fix" emmc? Oct 03 19:50:54 I suspect it's more or less unfixable Oct 03 19:51:14 however, data corruptiom doesn't necessarily have to be originating from emmc either Oct 03 19:51:40 usually first symptoms of slightly bad ram/cpu is slowly creeping fs corruption :/ Oct 03 19:55:59 overclocking? :] Oct 03 19:57:28 Also, running fsck on sd/emmc always caused heavy corruption for me Oct 03 19:57:38 so I'd recommend not fscking at all Oct 03 19:57:52 there's probably a reason why nokia disabled it by default Oct 03 20:11:18 ~weather EGCO Oct 03 20:11:20 I can't find station code "EGCO" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Oct 03 20:11:28 ~useless Oct 03 20:11:28 * infobot starts crying and hides from sixwheeledbeast in the darkest corner of the room. :( Oct 03 20:24:45 tztztzzz Oct 03 20:24:54 ~tz Oct 03 20:26:06 the main problem seems the URLs that point to rather obsolete or stale sites/pages Oct 03 20:29:01 though EGCO _should_ be valid, maybe the airport simply doesn't provide weather info Oct 03 20:29:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_by_ICAO_code:_E Oct 03 20:29:52 ~weather EDDN Oct 03 20:29:56 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2013.10.03 2020 UTC; Dew Point: 33 F (1 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.21 in. Hg (1023 hPa); Relative Humidity: 70%; Temperature: 42 F (6 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the E (100 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT) Oct 03 20:32:58 my though too. Oct 03 20:33:09 s/though/thought/ Oct 03 20:33:09 sixwheeledbeast meant: my thought too. Oct 03 20:33:20 too small to even get own wiki page? Oct 03 20:33:50 not every tiny airfield has weather data available in internet Oct 03 20:34:16 ~weather EGCC Oct 03 20:34:18 Manchester Airport, United Kingdom; (EGCC) 53-21N 002-17W 0M; last updated: 2013.10.03 2020 UTC; Dew Point: 60 F (16 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.65 in. Hg (1004 hPa); Relative Humidity: 88%; Sky conditions: partly cloudy; Temperature: 64 F (18 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the S (180 degrees) at 15 MPH (13 KT) Oct 03 20:34:48 ~weather EGGP Oct 03 20:34:50 Liverpool Airport , United Kingdom; (EGGP) 53-20N 002-51W; last updated: 2013.10.03 2020 UTC; Dew Point: 59 F (15 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.62 in. Hg (1003 hPa); Relative Humidity: 88%; Sky conditions: partly cloudy; Temperature: 62 F (17 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the SSE (160 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 KT) Oct 03 20:35:12 well I split the difference between them then :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 04 02:59:58 2013