**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 28 02:59:58 2013
Oct 28 03:27:44 <SAiF> 8.3 huh?
Oct 28 07:18:14 <Sicelo> hmm, Hamster file manager... it's nice, but i think some stuff is just too winded..
Oct 28 07:18:41 <Sicelo> i seen on tmo some were hoping to have it as standard file manager on cssu. :-/
Oct 28 07:18:51 <Sicelo> don't think i agree
Oct 28 07:20:15 <Sicelo> most processes need you to first move the file onto clipboard :(
Oct 28 07:42:37 <DocScrutinizer05> Sicelo: "have it as standard filemanager on CSSU" is fundamental nonsense, since CSSU is exactly NOT about such changes
Oct 28 07:43:30 <DocScrutinizer05> "have a method in CSSU to *select* the standard filemanager" is the only thing you may hope for
Oct 28 07:46:36 <sixwheeledbeast> Sicelo: I feel that was possibly my opinion and I agree with DocScrutinizer
Oct 28 07:46:53 <Chat-nel> hi
Oct 28 07:57:46 <Chat-nel> does someone know where Faster App Manager stores its repositories ?
Oct 28 07:59:02 <Chat-nel> I would like to add some repo with the command line
Oct 28 08:01:19 <sixwheeledbeast> ~fam
Oct 28 08:01:20 <infobot> well, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default.
Oct 28 08:36:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literap fapman
Oct 28 08:36:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal fapman
Oct 28 08:36:59 <infobot> "fapman" is "Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default."
Oct 28 08:37:34 <DocScrutinizer05> infobot: fapman is also in short, it's deprecated
Oct 28 08:37:34 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer05
Oct 28 08:37:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ~literal fapman
Oct 28 08:37:39 <infobot> "fapman" is "Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. in short, it's deprecated"
Oct 28 08:42:11 <DocScrutinizer05> aka "Faulty APplication MANager"
Oct 28 08:43:34 <jaska> and the other one is horrible application manager
Oct 28 08:44:33 <DocScrutinizer05> the long story: fapman obviously been developed by somebody who had some knowledge about apt and gui coding, but no thorough understanding of the differnces between maemo and a standard debian distro, regarding packaging and the requirements this introduces and which get handled by HAM
Oct 28 08:51:49 <DocScrutinizer05> evidence: HAM sourcecode always been free & open, and every reasonable programmer had first analyzed the HAM code and considered to improve *that*, rather than writing something new from scratch. Even when analysis of existing code resulted in "It's rotten to the bones, we need to start from scratch", this approach had revealed details that are mandatory to consider and implement to a App Manager, and any rewrite from scratch would have 
Oct 28 08:51:51 <DocScrutinizer05> based more on the _woring_ concepts in HAM or at least explained why they can get ignored and what's the implications in doing so
Oct 28 08:53:02 <DocScrutinizer05> s/woring/working/
Oct 28 08:53:03 <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: based more on the _working_ concepts in HAM or at least explained why they can get ignored and what's the implications in doing so
Oct 28 08:54:15 <Pali> HAM is slow because of 1) parsing uuencoded applications icons from Packages.gz text files (from apt repository) 2) parsing Maemo specified fields from that file 3) parsing is slow for too many packages and repositories
Oct 28 08:54:46 <Pali> only idiot could get idea to put application icons into debian package control file...
Oct 28 08:55:45 <Pali> this totally slow down downloading info from apt repository and parsing huge text file where is uuencoded icons...
Oct 28 08:57:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I tend to agree 100% for the icons
Oct 28 08:57:26 <DocScrutinizer05> they make packages.gz bloated and gibberish to read
Oct 28 09:08:32 <l4m3rx> Pali, about kp52+git. I've been using it for the last few days.... (heavly using the headset button) and I didn't notice any slowdowns.
Oct 28 09:08:55 <Pali> l4m3rx: ok, thanks for testing
Oct 28 09:09:58 <Pali> I'm preparing new version from git for testing with other patches by dfries
Oct 28 09:10:16 <Pali> I will update TMO post when packages will be ready for testing
Oct 28 09:14:01 <l4m3rx> Where can I take a look at "what's to come" ? :)
Oct 28 10:37:42 <shimmy> Hi. How can I get a virtual keyboard on screen in terminal on an N900?
Oct 28 10:37:57 <shimmy> The virtual keyboard is enabled in settings.
Oct 28 10:40:51 <Pali> just click on the terminal screen with closed HW keyboard
Oct 28 10:48:52 <shimmy> Pali: nothing.
Oct 28 10:49:37 <shimmy> If it was that simple I wouldn't have the need to ask here.
Oct 28 10:50:43 <shimmy> Afaik I have never had a virtual keyboard in the terminal.
Oct 28 10:51:14 <shimmy> Ofcourse, I havent had the need to use until now because I want to use a character so unusual in it's use in terminal that the devs forgot to add a default binding for it. The illusive pipe |
Oct 28 10:51:55 <psycho_oreos> Your vkbd might be broken. Also you can add pipe into your xterm window via gconftool
Oct 28 10:53:57 <shimmy> I am unfamiliar with gconftool
Oct 28 10:54:20 <shimmy> The reason I need a pipe is to PS fmms processes.
Oct 28 10:54:52 <shimmy> I cannot receive MMS, it just says "Operation failed". Double, triple, quadruple and quintuple checked all the settings, they are correct.
Oct 28 10:55:44 <psycho_oreos> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34926 <--- gconftool in use with examples and all.
Oct 28 10:57:09 <shimmy> Yeah, thats a lot simpler than using a virtual keyboard, lol
Oct 28 10:57:26 <shimmy> I'd still like my virtual keyboard to work.
Oct 28 10:57:32 <shimmy> in the terminal, no keyboard showing up
Oct 28 10:57:54 <psycho_oreos> With MMS using fMMS, you might be able to get by via tweaking the policy to aggressive. That's how I got MMS working at one stage on my N900.
Oct 28 10:58:17 <psycho_oreos> So SSH into the device and check what's up with it.
Oct 28 10:59:09 <shimmy> psycho_oreos: I cant do the gconf thingy because I need square brackets
Oct 28 10:59:17 <shimmy> and ofcourse, without a virtual keyboad I cannot type them
Oct 28 10:59:27 <psycho_oreos> shimmy, did you not read what I wrote just now?
Oct 28 10:59:33 <shimmy> So, how does one get a virtual keyboard for the terminal?
Oct 28 10:59:41 <psycho_oreos> I mentioned SSH.
Oct 28 10:59:43 <shimmy> psycho_oreos: so I have to config SSH on the phone first
Oct 28 10:59:48 <shimmy> to get a virtual keyboard up and running
Oct 28 11:00:29 <psycho_oreos> You don't need virtual keyboard to config SSH, there's already packaged openssh thing that allows easeof setting up and getting SSH running.
Oct 28 11:00:53 <shimmy> psycho_oreos: 
Oct 28 11:01:14 <psycho_oreos> The only area that you might need the keyboard (and physical keyboard will do) is to setup the password.
Oct 28 11:01:28 <shimmy> I want MMS to work, it does not, in order to find out why I need to use a pipe and in order to get a pipe character I need a virtual keyboard, but to get the virutal keyboard working I need ssh so I can find out why the virtual keyboard isnt working.
Oct 28 11:01:36 <shimmy> I have a feeling this is gonna be a productive day.
Oct 28 11:01:38 <kerio> shimmy: oh
Oct 28 11:01:50 <kerio> fn and then ctrl
Oct 28 11:02:10 <shimmy> kerio: THANK YOU!!! :)
Oct 28 11:03:20 <shimmy> yeah "operation failed" in fMMS
Oct 28 11:03:31 <shimmy> is there a log for fmms?
Oct 28 11:04:24 <shimmy> psycho_oreos: where is this policy? only option I see is network mode which I can set to polite, rude or havoc
Oct 28 11:04:46 <psycho_oreos> shimmy, so it's havoc then.
Oct 28 11:04:54 <shimmy> Also, I use this for my settings http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_configurations#Sweden
Oct 28 11:05:00 <psycho_oreos> Try messing around and see which one will work.
Oct 28 11:05:19 <shimmy> nope
Oct 28 11:05:22 <shimmy> operational failed on all three
Oct 28 11:05:38 <shimmy> resize is "medium", im hoping thats ok
Oct 28 11:06:47 <psycho_oreos> Mine's on normal.
Oct 28 11:06:48 <shimmy> ok, I can only conclude that my operator must have broken MMS messages on the server.
Oct 28 11:06:58 <shimmy> I have "medium"
Oct 28 11:07:44 <shimmy> Eh. Well, all new messages cant be broken, that seems odd.
Oct 28 11:15:59 <shimmy> My MMS internet connection was just removed automagically from all lists and cannot be find.
Oct 28 11:19:07 <shimmy> After a while the entire phone connection gets stuck on "fmms downloading mms" even though the application has since long been killed, but the top menu just indicates that "heck yeah, we're doing the MMS thing", but alas there is no MMS downloaded
Oct 28 11:19:36 <shimmy> ps -A | grep -i mms does not show any apps.
Oct 28 11:19:38 <shimmy> not sure what to kill
Oct 28 11:22:09 <shimmy> "Operation failed
Oct 28 11:23:02 <shimmy> Are there any alternatives to fMMS? It obviously isnt working with my provider.
Oct 28 11:31:45 <shimmy> MMS to new and high tech, like zooming images in the Photos app.
Oct 28 11:32:27 <shimmy> Ah, 2009, so long ago before such things were invented. It was a simpler time.
Oct 28 11:36:14 <Herbstbert> Hello. Is there a repository for mosh? I just found the page on maemo.org describing the installation on meego.
Oct 28 12:42:41 <DocScrutinizer05> kudos to FatPhil!
Oct 28 12:42:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~zzztop
Oct 28 12:42:45 <infobot> rumour has it, zzztop is http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop - the better and even FOSS powertop, or "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop "", or http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/zzztop
Oct 28 12:42:55 <DocScrutinizer05> highly recommended
Oct 28 12:43:24 <qwerty123> Gt a cssu update notification!! Will it update the kernel??!! ( Went down from kp52 to kp51r1)
Oct 28 12:43:43 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm?
Oct 28 12:43:52 <DocScrutinizer05> for now CSSU doesn't touch your kernel
Oct 28 12:44:18 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: thanks!! :) And where to get the changelog??!
Oct 28 12:44:41 <DocScrutinizer05> (this might change eventually, and I shudder when thinking about that)
Oct 28 12:44:53 <DocScrutinizer05> ~cssu
Oct 28 12:44:55 <infobot> rumour has it, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
Oct 28 12:45:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I didn't notice any CSSU upgrade lately though
Oct 28 12:45:55 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: no idea!! Just got one now!! 
Oct 28 12:46:13 <qwerty123> Said maemo update!!
Oct 28 12:46:17 <DocScrutinizer05> what exactly?
Oct 28 12:46:47 <DocScrutinizer05> and save your "!", you eventually might need them
Oct 28 12:47:24 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog#Tmaemo8.2   14.06.2013
Oct 28 12:48:19 <qwerty123>  umm. Okay. I had just ignored the update. Checking ham. 
Oct 28 12:48:49 <DocScrutinizer05> qwerty123: what's your CSSU version in settings->"about CSSU"? What's the exact name of the update you see?
Oct 28 12:50:19 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: flavour testing, maemo8.2. It just said maemo update.
Oct 28 12:50:49 <DocScrutinizer05> hard to believe
Oct 28 12:51:43 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: ham is still loading.....
Oct 28 12:52:22 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, that takes a while, particularly when you got extras-devel enabled which you never should have
Oct 28 12:53:34 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess it will offer updates for a few packages, but not for maemo Community SSU system
Oct 28 12:53:35 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: whats the problem with ham? 
Oct 28 12:53:51 <DocScrutinizer05> problem? no problem. Just lots of data to process
Oct 28 12:54:23 <qwerty123> It just said maemo update. 
Oct 28 12:54:26 <DocScrutinizer05> lots of package data for all the packages in extras-devel
Oct 28 12:54:51 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it never only says "maemo update"
Oct 28 12:55:41 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a notifier that says sth like "maemo update available! 5 new packages..."
Oct 28 12:56:11 <qwerty123> Got it. Maemo 5 community ssu package.
Oct 28 12:56:17 <DocScrutinizer05> and if you're lucky it even lists the packages avalable for update
Oct 28 12:56:27 <DocScrutinizer05> version?
Oct 28 12:56:33 <DocScrutinizer05> details?
Oct 28 12:56:34 <qwerty123> From status menu, it shortens it i think!
Oct 28 12:57:20 <qwerty123> 8.3 292kb in size.
Oct 28 12:57:26 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: 
Oct 28 12:57:28 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
Oct 28 12:57:43 <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: you rolled out 8.3???
Oct 28 12:58:20 <DocScrutinizer05> HECK, if only we'd get a heads up beforehand
Oct 28 12:58:55 <DocScrutinizer05> then I'd not waste 15 min to talk users thru verifying there's actually a CSSU update available
Oct 28 13:00:01 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly, can't be that hard to leave a oneline note in here
Oct 28 13:00:35 <qwerty123> DocScrutinizer05: are you not on cssu?
Oct 28 13:00:57 <DocScrutinizer05> I "broke" it with 7.2
Oct 28 13:01:46 <DocScrutinizer05> since I didn't want to forego procps
Oct 28 13:02:17 <DocScrutinizer05> installing procps uninstalls the package you just received an update for
Oct 28 13:02:31 <DocScrutinizer05> which doesn't mean it uninstalls CSSU
Oct 28 13:06:08 <DocScrutinizer05> qwerty123: (changelog) it is a best practice in CSSU to deliver the changelog 2 or 3 days *after* the update rolled out ;-P
Oct 28 13:06:33 <DocScrutinizer05> to keep users alert
Oct 28 13:07:16 <DocScrutinizer05> it's more fun to update and then after a few days check how many of the improvements you were able to spot X-P
Oct 28 13:08:51 <DocScrutinizer05> if you think that's no fun at all, I suggest to ignore the update and wait for HAM to pop it up next time. Then check if changelog already available, and proceed accordingly by either deciding to update or ignore for another period of time
Oct 28 13:09:54 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL, I guess he already updates
Oct 28 16:29:06 <sono> Herbstbert =)
Oct 28 16:29:15 <Herbstbert> sono :D
Oct 28 16:29:40 <Herbstbert> sono: Once upon a time in the freenode network...
Oct 28 16:29:51 * sono nodnods, is still at work
Oct 28 16:30:01 <Herbstbert> Me 2
Oct 28 17:06:13 <qwerty123> Hey is it safe to simply replace the fonts in /usr/share/fonts/nokia wid some other fonts renamed ro be same as the ones already present??!!
Oct 28 17:06:26 <qwerty123> Hey is it safe to simply replace the fonts in /usr/share/fonts/nokia wid some other fonts renamed ro be same as the ones already present??!!
Oct 28 17:08:12 <qwazix> qwerty123, it doesn't sound risky but prolly won't do what you expect though
Oct 28 17:08:37 <qwazix> (except if you open the fonts in fontforge and change the names *inside* the file too)
Oct 28 17:11:28 <qwerty123> qwazix: fontforge??
Oct 28 17:11:40 <qwazix> FOSS app to create fonts
Oct 28 17:11:53 <qwazix> available on desktop linuxes, and windows
Oct 28 17:12:40 <qwazix> but it might be the wrong way to go. What are you trying to achieve?
Oct 28 17:13:41 <qwerty123> qwazix: okay thanks!! :) Just asking, hav yu tried sumthing like thiss???
Oct 28 17:13:41 <qwazix> I usually use themecustomiser to change system fonts plus edit transitions.ini
Oct 28 17:13:49 <qwazix> see above
Oct 28 17:14:25 <qwazix> themecustomiser IIRC has some incompatibilities with CSSU, but if you only touch fonts you are safe
Oct 28 17:14:56 <Malinux> I am trying to install the backupmenu software to restore a backup. I get this output from terminal about dependencies
Oct 28 17:15:14 <qwerty123> qwazix: i have done that!! But that doesnot change the font of vkb (only text area).. Need to change that.
Oct 28 17:15:30 <Malinux> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6319374/
Oct 28 17:16:25 <qwazix> qwerty123, weird, my vkb font is changed correctly
Oct 28 17:16:50 <qwazix> scratch that
Oct 28 17:17:04 <qwazix> you are right text area is old font yes
Oct 28 17:17:07 <qwerty123> qwazix: font of the text area too apart from the keys??!!
Oct 28 17:17:20 <qwerty123> qwazix: yeahh!!
Oct 28 17:17:33 <qwerty123> Thats what i need to change.
Oct 28 17:19:32 <qwerty123> qwazix: fonts/nokia seems to contain the default fonts, dats y i ws wanting to change it..
Oct 28 17:22:28 <qwazix> qwerty123, you can try, but fonts in linux aren't used by filename
Oct 28 17:22:43 <qwazix> but with font name, which is a field inside the font file
Oct 28 17:22:56 <qwazix> (I tried on the N9, it doesn't work)
Oct 28 17:23:40 <qwerty123> qwazix: fontforge on debian repo??
Oct 28 17:24:17 <qwazix> should be yeah
Oct 28 17:24:54 <qwerty123> its dere!! Downloading in easy deb!qwazix: 
Oct 28 17:25:25 <qwazix> oh, good luck with that! I struggle with the interface even on my pc
Oct 28 17:26:22 <qwerty123> Aaaahhh!! Just 5 mb! Still??! 
Oct 28 17:29:28 <sixwheeledbeast> themecustomizer isn't perfect.
Oct 28 17:29:52 <sixwheeledbeast> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/known_broken_packages
Oct 28 17:29:53 <qwazix> no, it isn't, but neither is renaming the fonts
Oct 28 17:30:03 <Malinux> maybe backup-menu depends multiboot and that's why I can't install backup-menu
Oct 28 17:30:51 <qwazix> Malinux, no backupmenu doesn't depend on multiboot
Oct 28 17:31:11 <qwazix> it may conflict with it even
Oct 28 17:31:30 <Malinux> qwazix: okey. So. I am trying to install backup-menu to restore a bacup from another N900
Oct 28 17:32:15 <Malinux> and the output I get in terminal did I post here
Oct 28 17:33:36 <qwazix> I saw that but I don't really know why you get that
Oct 28 17:33:53 <qwazix> did you try installing mtd-utils by hand and see the output? Might provide some info
Oct 28 17:43:29 <Malinux> I tried and I can show that info as well
Oct 28 17:48:11 <Malinux> I lost ssh connection to the N900, so I have to reboot to see if I can reconnect
Oct 28 17:48:45 <Apic> k
Oct 28 17:49:00 <Malinux> no rout to host message
Oct 28 17:52:55 <Malinux> I got connection again after reboot and here is my output http://paste.ubuntu.com/6319570/
Oct 28 20:30:05 <Malinux> qwazix: I kind of solved it by manually downloading and installing this package: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk-tools_free_armel/liblzo2-2/2.03-1maemo3/
Oct 28 20:31:09 <Malinux> it's a dependencie of mtd-utils which is a dependencie of backupmenu :)
Oct 28 22:33:57 <anYc> anyone else having problems to mount /home after cssu update?
Oct 29 00:03:47 <lexik> Neo900 reddit page has been marked as spam :/
Oct 29 00:03:48 <lexik> http://www.reddit.com/r/Neo900
Oct 29 00:06:58 <GeneralAntilles> Click the link in the middle?
Oct 29 00:10:10 <lexik> GeneralAntilles: Done :P
Oct 29 00:10:19 <lexik> three days ago
Oct 29 00:10:53 <GeneralAntilles> Slow response.
Oct 29 00:28:46 <dos1> lexik: we've got lots of views from reddit anyway
Oct 29 00:28:53 <dos1> from /r/android :D
Oct 29 00:29:11 <lexik> :D
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 29 02:59:58 2013