**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 01 02:59:59 2013 Nov 01 03:24:39 seems to be i'm missing something from /home fs Nov 01 03:24:41 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1383703#post1383703 Nov 01 08:05:35 DocScrutinizer05: this pre-authorization thingie (for donations) doesn't look good to me Nov 01 08:06:12 pre-auths are automatically canceled after 45 days if there is no completion Nov 01 08:25:40 Instead of asking strangers for candy I could buy for myself while it is priced to clear after Halloween, my Halloween night was spent as a “Ceroc Virgin” trying to (re)learn to dance with attractive women at a Ceroc dance event at a hall in Vancouver. Nov 01 08:52:28 mrrh Nov 01 09:17:02 freemangordon: huh? Nov 01 09:19:13 freemangordon: I don't know what you're talking about Nov 01 09:33:42 DocScrutinizer05: "Our Credit Card Clearing processor has pre-authorized your Card and we will finally charge it when we ship your products or services." Nov 01 09:34:17 this is in the mail I got from sales at goldelico dot com Nov 01 09:36:49 DocScrutinizer05: there are no money transferred from my account to goldelico at that time, there is only a hold on my account for the amount of the preauthorization. afaik Nov 01 09:37:26 DocScrutinizer05: and i guess it is the same fo the others who donated over 50 euro Nov 01 09:39:59 no, the donations are "shipped" in a day or two Nov 01 09:40:10 there's no goods to ship Nov 01 09:40:29 the page is generic, it applies to the whole shop Nov 01 09:40:41 err, the mail (as well) Nov 01 09:43:24 DocScrutinizer05: ok, if you say so. Nov 01 09:44:18 no, that's what Nikolaus says Nov 01 09:48:20 we had one donor associated to FSF(E) who gave us a lot of arguing about the WLAN chip to use and why we can't provide closed firmware BLOBs for WLAN and BT (according to RMS), and finally he canceled his donation Nov 01 09:48:23 DocScrutinizer05: my concern is because know banking shit, this is part of what I do for living. But if you(or Nikolaus) say it is expected to be that way, I am fine too Nov 01 09:48:56 *I know Nov 01 09:48:59 aiui Nikolaus is going to charge the CCs "manually" today Nov 01 09:49:42 for physical goods the shop would do that when shipping process is checkmarked as "done" Nov 01 09:50:02 so basically Nik will "ship donations" today Nov 01 09:50:11 all "afaik" Nov 01 09:50:21 DocScrutinizer05: for goods in the shop, noone does preathorizatio, but a so-called "notmal purchase" transactio Nov 01 09:50:28 normal even Nov 01 09:51:00 preauth is usually done on hotels or for rent-a-car, when the final transaction amount is not known in advance Nov 01 09:51:12 sorry, I have no account and no saying in anything shop- and goldelico-website- related Nov 01 09:51:43 so a hold for some amount is put on your CC account when you check-in, and the transaction is "completed" when you check-out Nov 01 09:51:55 just explaining how it works :: Nov 01 09:52:01 Sometimes i can't understand the fsf(e). Yeah, they are right, that blobs are bad, but which phone wan't they use instead? I think neo900 will be one of the openest phones yo can get?! Nov 01 09:52:01 :) Nov 01 09:53:42 nhbib: they want manufacturers to rather implement a dedicated small MCU that handles the FW BLOB rather than allowing linux CPU to "mv /usr/fw/blob /dev/peripherials/wlanconfig" Nov 01 09:54:08 ~mcu Nov 01 09:54:18 microcontroller Nov 01 09:54:21 oh Nov 01 09:54:44 they honestly bullied for that "solution" for GTA04 Nov 01 09:56:02 strange Nov 01 09:56:09 sure, we will place a small Atmel CPU and some serial EEPROM to hold the WLAN firmware, just to keep the blob out of /etc/firmware/* Nov 01 09:56:28 that's so silly Nov 01 09:56:59 DocScrutinizer05: i have some experience with PICs, if you choose one over the Atmel :P Nov 01 09:57:13 hah, thanks :-P Nov 01 09:58:35 argumentation: "the blob could change the behaviour of the WLAN chip's API" -- SO WHAT?!?!! Nov 01 10:00:29 it's still the *user* to change the *blob*. And I doubt *any* user will thank us for depriving them of their option to actually do Nov 01 10:00:58 sure we rather would like to see FOSS "blobs" Nov 01 10:01:54 but banning them from linux APE just because they are _not_ FOSS is wrong in so many regards Nov 01 10:03:24 particularly it would deprive hackers from any opportunity to RE that closed blob and come up with some FOSS replacement Nov 01 10:04:19 as far as i understand, banning the blob in a microcontroller would take the freedom away from the user, because than he can no longer decide if he want to remove the blob or change it/reverse engineer it Nov 01 10:04:43 and treating "initialization data" for peripherals more restricitve than any userland closed source application is just paradox Nov 01 10:05:00 nhbib: exactly Nov 01 10:06:29 I can understand the reasoning, that they want to draw a line between hardware and software, so when blob is on such eeprom it belongs to hardware now and we can don't worry about it from software side Nov 01 10:06:34 but the outcome of this reasoning is silly Nov 01 10:07:09 but RSN assumes "it's some sort of program" (which is plausible but not guaranteed, it could as well just be a long set of register dumps that are restored to the registers to configure the chip) and he further says "any program on a GNU system has to ship FOSS sourcecode" Nov 01 10:09:23 the second assertion is particulrly silly since user obviously is free to run closed source apps on his system Nov 01 10:10:49 so why should closed source app be allowed only, when it is ran on APE CPU, but _not_ when you "offload it" to the coprocessor in a WLAN chip? Nov 01 10:11:10 that's paradox Nov 01 10:33:43 hello, does anyone know whether or not we have an mpd client app for maemo? Nov 01 10:43:39 bennypr0fane: mmpc, cutempc in extras-devel, mpc in testing Nov 01 10:44:10 Hakki it seems the two are conflicting Nov 01 10:44:27 any idea why? Nov 01 10:45:24 not really Nov 01 10:45:55 I'm using mmpc only Nov 01 10:46:14 how do you like the UI? Nov 01 10:46:49 ooh, the Cute one is tiny Nov 01 10:47:23 didn't like the cutempc :) Nov 01 10:47:48 Trying out mmpc now... Nov 01 10:49:03 aha. apparently the two use different versions of libmpd Nov 01 10:49:06 mostly using command line mpc on a remote host with some shell scripting and splitvt around it :) Nov 01 10:49:21 the qt one is like 8 times the size Nov 01 10:51:15 ha mmpc looks much better Nov 01 10:51:18 thanks Nov 01 11:38:02 FYI: Yesterday mentioned troubles with the media player, not properly showing id3v2 tags. I got some links to different maomo forum discussions over the matter. One of them gave me an idea and it seemed to work. Problem occured when I had updated tags in already properly indexed .mp3 files after which all went to crap. As solution I tried stripping all id3v2 tags after which created everything from scratch. Worked on my case. Nov 01 11:38:19 Now, there you have it in the channel logs, hopefully it will be of assistance to someone in the future :) Nov 01 11:49:18 hello, I remember that there was (or still is?) project for porting/running harmattan applications on Maemo Nov 01 11:49:27 does anybody have info about it? Nov 01 11:53:10 dos1: What about the battery of the Neo900? Will it be the same as in the N900? And how long will I be able to use a Neo900 with fully charged battery? Nov 01 11:54:23 Oh, there is a #neo900. :D Nov 01 12:02:13 the browser is pretty crashy on reddit for me - lots of checkerboarding and hangs Nov 01 12:04:43 Pali: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84482 Nov 01 12:04:54 thanks! Nov 01 12:05:40 Pali: out of curiosity - which harm application you want to run? Nov 01 12:05:54 Trojita (fast imap email client) Nov 01 12:06:01 I'm fed up with Modest Nov 01 12:06:09 can't you just compile it? Nov 01 12:06:13 using qml Nov 01 12:06:18 so what? Nov 01 12:06:25 I need nokia qml libs Nov 01 12:06:43 which are used only on harmattan Nov 01 12:07:02 so I need them from above "compatibility layer" Nov 01 12:07:03 ok Nov 01 12:07:13 ok, got it Nov 01 12:11:04 Herbstbert: yes, battery will be the same Nov 01 12:11:24 how long - should be similar to N900 Nov 01 12:19:40 OK. :) Nov 01 12:20:23 dos1: actually, if we manage to do everything as it should be done, the battery life should be longer Nov 01 12:20:38 :nod: Nov 01 12:20:51 3430 is 60nm vs 40(?) nm for 3730 Nov 01 12:21:02 * freemangordon is going to check Nov 01 12:26:15 Cool. :) Nov 01 12:28:04 dos1: OMAP3430 is 65nm, DM3730 is 45nm Nov 01 12:28:54 but don;t expect much longer usage times, screen and digitizer use lots of juice Nov 01 12:29:02 iirc Nov 01 12:35:32 ~seen marmistrz Nov 01 12:35:33 marmistrz <53061e3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.6.30.59> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 197d 20h 36m 40s ago, saying: 'please notify arcean about this when he shows up'. Nov 01 12:43:20 http://neo900.org/ Nov 01 17:37:47 www.golem.de/news/golden-delicious-openphoenux-plant-freien-n900-nachfolger-1311-102510.html Nov 01 17:47:09 ja voll cool, hab ich auch schon gelesen: http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/20419/neo900-will-nokias-n900-beerben.html Nov 01 17:47:38 auch mit einer Cortex A8 CPU Nov 01 17:48:11 Jepp Nov 01 20:00:41 freemangordon: otoh we clock the CPU higher. OK it will run faster to idle then. Yeah it might use a bit less than 65nm Nov 01 20:01:44 he couldn't handle that :( Nov 01 21:23:51 Is there a plan to package zzztop up for the repos? Nov 01 21:26:00 >>We would also like to mention that building and running a gigantic botnet and then watching it as it scans nothing less than the whole Internet at rates of billions of IPs per hour over and over again is really as much fun as it sounds like.<< Nov 01 21:34:42 good question, though honestly it's just as simple to install as: Nov 01 21:34:46 ~zzztop Nov 01 21:34:47 i heard zzztop is http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop - the better and even FOSS powertop, or "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop "", or http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/zzztop Nov 01 21:35:17 a .deb? Nov 01 21:36:18 I have tested it but a .deb in the repos would be nice :) Nov 01 21:36:20 "copy and paste" Nov 01 21:36:31 well, yeah Nov 01 21:36:43 maybe Nov 01 21:37:16 as nice as the .deb for starhash-enabler ;-) Nov 01 21:37:58 it will actually make extras due to it working on all kernel versions. Nov 01 21:38:00 prolly the only deb in maemo-extras that doesn't contain *any* executable Nov 01 21:39:24 actually I could install the complete starhash-enabler even more easy than zzztop, it wouldn't even need any wget, just a simple echo command and that's it Nov 01 21:40:00 thus yeah, I'm all aware that zzztop would need a package in extras Nov 01 21:40:31 but I don't know of any devel who's planning to do such package Nov 01 21:41:02 does zztop take much root? I didn't check if <0.3MB Nov 01 21:41:29 way smaller Nov 01 21:42:02 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/ Nov 01 21:43:30 0.3MB? Nov 01 21:43:46 never heard of that limit Nov 01 21:43:57 maximum for promotion to extras Nov 01 21:44:15 >0.3MB requires /opt Nov 01 21:44:28 ~optification Nov 01 21:44:28 optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" Nov 01 21:45:14 damn, even >>m, specially for applications requiring more than 5<< Nov 01 21:45:25 oops >>m, specially for applications requiring more than 500k<< Nov 01 21:46:10 sth severely broken in my browser's highlighting of texts Nov 01 21:47:04 s/'s highlighting of texts// Nov 01 21:47:05 DocScrutinizer05 meant: sth severely broken in my browser Nov 01 21:49:17 ~extras-testing Nov 01 21:49:18 hmm... extras-testing is the maemo testing repository, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-05-19.log.html#t2011-05-19T16:27:37 Nov 01 21:49:39 eh Nov 01 21:49:46 listkeys testing Nov 01 21:50:13 ~listkeys testing Nov 01 21:50:15 Factoid search of 'testing' by key (12 of 30): i don't mind some bot testing here, but ibot ;; testing1 ;; security security testing ;; security penetration testing ;; security functional testing ;; theory of testing ;; testing + unstable ;; testing-feed ;; cmd: testing (.*?) ;; testing->stable ;; testing->unstable ;; be testing barbie. Nov 01 21:50:33 ~listkeys #maemo testing Nov 01 21:50:35 Factoid search of '#maemo testing' by key returned no results. Nov 01 21:52:33 Oh well guidelines I have used for testing from here say 0.3MB http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/QA_Checklist Nov 01 21:55:13 * sixwheeledbeast is surprised wget takes 1.9MB on root http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem/Non-Optified_packages Nov 01 21:59:27 isn't busybox-power good enough? Nov 01 22:01:23 good enough, how? Nov 01 22:03:37 anybody know how to read google + on microb? Nov 01 22:04:18 the normal version has major page-wideness problems, and i can't seem to find a way to view a mobile-friendly version without making an account... Nov 01 22:22:20 dictatorships work ;) Nov 01 22:23:58 sixwheeledbeast: busybox-power's got wget Nov 01 22:27:09 Oh I see. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 02 02:59:57 2013