**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 14 02:59:59 2013
Nov 14 06:11:13 <sono> profit? yay!
Nov 14 08:58:13 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: ouch @ reflash.... ok
Nov 14 08:58:59 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: I also got an io error in .modest -- doesn't that indicate it's more than broken?
Nov 14 08:59:05 <Wizzup> like, more than on fs level
Nov 14 09:22:06 <anYc> then do a fsck
Nov 14 09:22:50 <Wizzup> anYc: I tried several ways (all that involve power-kernel, which I have): /etc/kernel-power/force_fsck , /etc/defaults/kernel etc
Nov 14 09:22:56 <Wizzup> none seems to actually do a fsck
Nov 14 09:23:12 <anYc> hm ok, I used nemo from sdcard for that
Nov 14 09:23:17 <Wizzup> that's a possibility
Nov 14 09:23:28 <Wizzup> I wanted to give nemo another try anyway ;-)
Nov 14 09:23:42 <Wizzup> meanwhile. modest keeps crashing every 10 seconds and my phone is pretty unusable
Nov 14 09:23:51 <anYc> but it was too late then, the partition with /home/user/ and /opt was half gone
Nov 14 09:24:15 <Wizzup> I dropped my n900 two days ago and the battery fell out, that's the only reason I can think of
Nov 14 09:24:15 <anYc> in my case modest was starting but it didn't fetch new mails anymore
Nov 14 09:24:20 <Wizzup> that of the mmc is dying?
Nov 14 09:24:25 <Wizzup> s/of/or/
Nov 14 09:24:26 <infobot> Wizzup meant: that or the mmc is dying?
Nov 14 09:24:36 <Wizzup> which would be worse, I guess
Nov 14 09:25:09 <anYc> both possible I would say. My device works again, only several configs were missing.
Nov 14 09:25:43 <anYc> I remember, I wanted to check if maemo isn't doing fs check at boot
Nov 14 09:26:35 <Wizzup> it can be enforced apparently, with kernel-power
Nov 14 09:26:40 <Wizzup> but it doesn't work, for me at least
Nov 14 09:27:06 <Wizzup> maybe I can just temporarily remove the whole .modest folder
Nov 14 09:27:12 <Wizzup> (since I don't really use email on it anyway)
Nov 14 10:06:33 <DocScrutinizer05> reflash!
Nov 14 10:08:08 <DocScrutinizer05> I/O errors are no fs corruption usually. MAYBE you can fix them with a low level format (==reflash)
Nov 14 10:09:29 <DocScrutinizer05> odds are the drop destroyed the eMMC (soldering)
Nov 14 10:09:59 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: ^^^
Nov 14 10:11:25 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: okay
Nov 14 10:11:30 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: I also have a spare n900 lying around, but yeah
Nov 14 10:11:48 <Wizzup> I'll start making backups again ;-)
Nov 14 10:11:49 <DocScrutinizer05> NB *full* reflash needed
Nov 14 10:11:54 <Wizzup> yes
Nov 14 10:11:57 <Wizzup> I understood
Nov 14 10:12:02 <Wizzup> How does that solve i/o errors?
Nov 14 10:12:14 <Wizzup> will force the mmc to place stuff elsewhere?
Nov 14 10:13:49 <DocScrutinizer05> when eMMC simply has bad blocks, then a reflash may create a new internal bad block table AIUI
Nov 14 10:14:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, basically all blocks move each time you write them
Nov 14 10:14:45 <DocScrutinizer05> wear leveling
Nov 14 10:15:28 <DocScrutinizer05> eMMC does this internally and *should* tag bad erase pages
Nov 14 10:17:55 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I heard similar problems oftem, usually related to briute force shutdown which can cause MMC aborted flash that even can destroy flash storage completely
Nov 14 10:18:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and usually fsck is at best a time consuming and cumbersome process, oftem it even makes things worse
Nov 14 10:18:59 <DocScrutinizer05> a reflash is a walk in the park compared to fsck
Nov 14 10:19:27 <DocScrutinizer05> even *with* backup and restore of all your data and re-installation of your apps
Nov 14 10:29:54 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: flash storage working like: read erase page to internal buffer RAM; modify the block of data the CPU wants to write; meanwhile erase (an) erase page; modify the internal management data which lives in reserved block of every erase page; write back the data from internal RAM to the erase page.
Nov 14 10:30:20 <DocScrutinizer05> now figure what happens when you remove power during that process
Nov 14 10:30:54 <Wizzup> well I didn't drop it on purpose ;-) 
Nov 14 10:31:00 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Nov 14 10:31:03 <Wizzup> I'll reflash it in a bit
Nov 14 10:31:08 <Wizzup> I managed to make a backup
Nov 14 10:31:30 <Wizzup> and the phone is quite new and unused
Nov 14 10:31:35 <Wizzup> so I hope the emmc is not dead yet
Nov 14 10:33:58 <DocScrutinizer05> odds are only a page erase failed, or the write didn't complete, thus leaving garbled management data. This should be a problem the card controller can eventually fix during a complete format which happens on a full reflash
Nov 14 10:36:41 <Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: Will try. ty.
Nov 14 11:12:26 <DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: ask ShadowJK, he's the flash storage wiz here
Nov 14 11:13:44 <DocScrutinizer05> my understanding of how flash storage works is just rudimentary compared to his expertise
Nov 14 11:14:56 <DocScrutinizer05> however empirically a reflash is the more convenient way to fix the problems you described
Nov 14 14:02:37 <DocScrutinizer05> [NOTICE] COUNCIL ELECTIONS pending, candidates wanted *urgently*
Nov 14 19:22:41 <FatPhil> Anyone stripped down an n900, and dealt with the stylus clip?
Nov 14 19:23:16 <FatPhil> I'm doing more 2 broken -> 1 working hacks, and a (broken) stylus clip has just catapaulted itself across the room
Nov 14 19:27:30 <FatPhil> fark! yeah, the broken clip had migrated a long way from where it should be. No exploding springs from the non-broken one 
Nov 14 21:10:50 <DocScrutinizer05> FatPhil: hmm?
Nov 14 21:12:05 <DocScrutinizer05> on n900 the stylus clip is a simple halfmoon steel stripe with a plastic notch on top, no?
Nov 14 21:13:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, there's a 2nd one at the resection at stylus tip
Nov 14 21:14:47 <DocScrutinizer05> the one I meant is close to the hole where you shove in the stylus, and it's known to occasionally bend terribly
Nov 14 21:16:20 <DocScrutinizer05> (bend) maybe when the plastic tip comes off and the steel cuts into stylus so it can't get pulled out without bending the spring to death
Nov 14 21:17:56 <dack> DocScrutinizer05: my N900 came with an all plastic stylus
Nov 14 21:18:20 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
Nov 14 21:18:28 <DocScrutinizer05> all are all plastic
Nov 14 21:19:31 <dack> DocScrutinizer05: sorry, I thought you were talking about the stylus, not the clip holding the stylus..  misread that. ;)
Nov 14 21:19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
Nov 14 21:25:44 <mashina_> the n800 had a nice stylus
Nov 14 21:25:50 <mashina_> triangle, for nicer holding
Nov 14 21:25:55 <mashina_> partially metal
Nov 14 21:26:01 <mashina_> mine looked kinda out of shape though
Nov 14 22:16:41 <john_______> Hi, is there somebody please?
Nov 14 22:20:12 <john_______> I have a question...
Nov 14 22:22:43 <chainsawbike> john_____ ask it :)
Nov 14 22:24:01 <DocScrutinizer05> uhuh, "first 500 preorders will be served by DNA at 27th of November" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C46ytkh5RZY Jolla
Nov 14 22:24:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ~ask
Nov 14 22:24:33 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
Nov 14 22:25:19 <DocScrutinizer05> longest e-peen I even seeeeeeeeeeen
Nov 14 22:25:42 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
Nov 14 22:26:01 <DocScrutinizer05> vi____ been humble against it
Nov 14 22:49:56 <john_______> Ok, I'm new here, thank you for the many tips. I would like to ask how fast the neo900's CPU is compared to the N900's
Nov 14 23:07:51 <sixwheeledbeast> john_______: http://neo900.org/specs
Nov 14 23:08:20 <sixwheeledbeast> ~ask
Nov 14 23:08:21 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
Nov 14 23:09:02 <john_______> sixwheeledbeast, checked alrady, no answer to my question
Nov 14 23:09:14 <john_______> 2x faster, 10 times faster?
Nov 14 23:09:26 <john_______> Both are same Cortex A8
Nov 14 23:09:28 <sixwheeledbeast> the specs are side by side
Nov 14 23:09:34 <john_______> 3 years old
Nov 14 23:09:51 <john_______> I know, but can't find the neo900's on Wiki
Nov 14 23:10:22 <john_______> If it's only the clock bump, it would be the same as overclocking the n900's CPU, no?
Nov 14 23:10:50 <sixwheeledbeast> "faster" is subjective IMO
Nov 14 23:17:31 <sixwheeledbeast> It clearly says the CPU's are different 3430 600Mhz Vs 3730 1Ghz
Nov 14 23:19:43 <john_______> Do you also know some things about the GPU? I there HW h264 support?
Nov 14 23:23:03 <sixwheeledbeast> Nope. It's all proposed at the moment anyway. But I am not the best person to ask.
Nov 14 23:26:45 <john_______> Thx anyway sixwheeledbeast
Nov 14 23:27:28 <DocScrutinizer05> john_______: for CPU yes, it's just the clock, and DM3730 runs at 1GHz while N900 runs at 500(600)MHz. However GPU is about 2 times faster and more powerful, and the bottlenext RAM is two times minimum, which makes for a speed increaso of magnitudes
Nov 14 23:28:12 <john_______> Ah, thx DocScrutinizer05
Nov 14 23:28:53 <john_______> I saw the N900 had some trouble decoding media easily, and I would like to use it to watch mkv's smoothly
Nov 14 23:28:54 <DocScrutinizer05> and 3530 is h.264 base profile while it seems dm3730 can handle high profile
Nov 14 23:29:02 <john_______> Really love your project!
Nov 14 23:29:08 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks
Nov 14 23:29:38 <Defiant> up to 720p
Nov 14 23:29:53 <DocScrutinizer05> yup, high profile
Nov 14 23:30:35 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 
Nov 14 23:30:40 <john_______> Looks ok to me, will check the ARM though (shouldn't be a beast, but at least it should run smooth)
Nov 14 23:30:41 <DocScrutinizer05> thread search
Nov 14 23:31:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I elaborated on DM3730 improved capabilities there
Nov 14 23:31:53 <DocScrutinizer05> like 20M polygons / second instead of 10
Nov 14 23:32:28 <DocScrutinizer05> DSP also has more grunt beyond mere clock boost
Nov 14 23:34:19 <john_______> (reading the threat you gave me)
Nov 14 23:34:44 <john_______> Also: owenh seems to have an interesting question, I relay it:
Nov 14 23:35:04 <john_______> [07:42] <owenh> Hi all, probably it has already been mentioned; what about wireless master (AP) mode on the neo900?
Nov 14 23:35:45 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1376477
Nov 14 23:36:13 <DocScrutinizer05> WLAN module not finalized yet
Nov 14 23:36:38 <DocScrutinizer05> we will pick the best we can cram in and particularly can buy on low quantities
Nov 14 23:37:31 <DocScrutinizer05> please read feasibility study, it elaborated a bit on our options
Nov 14 23:38:12 <DocScrutinizer05> we need a WLAN module suited for embedded mobile
Nov 14 23:38:27 <DocScrutinizer05> means it mustn't cut thru battery in 2h
Nov 14 23:38:47 <DocScrutinizer05> most WLAN chipsets are not optimized for that
Nov 14 23:38:59 <DocScrutinizer05> since on a laptop it's negligible
Nov 14 23:39:56 <DocScrutinizer05> you probably wouldn't want a WLAN that needs to get disabled as soon as *the devie* doesn't need to transmit data, would you?
Nov 14 23:40:09 <DocScrutinizer05> device even
Nov 14 23:40:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I love it very much that my N900 can idle on IRC and WLAN for 24h easily
Nov 14 23:41:16 <DocScrutinizer05> and Neo900 must have same capabilities
Nov 14 23:41:52 <john_______> I love my N900, great phone, excellent, and I love this project, I really do, I hope this gets traction. I also do hope it will be a little bit beefier :)
Nov 14 23:42:05 <DocScrutinizer05> so AP is a bit down on the priority list of requirements for WLAN module, but we will try to find one that has AP too
Nov 14 23:42:22 <john_______> Thx DocScrutinizer05
Nov 14 23:42:27 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
Nov 14 23:42:34 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks for your interest
Nov 14 23:42:58 <john_______> I will continue running down the forum for the other info, you've been a great help
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 15 02:59:58 2013